| IVOD_ID |
167021 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167021 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
26 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-12T09:13:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-12T09:25:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:55 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ab52049cf0a1ce0b7419dfdeb851a79b4bfe832d32782da61002d6f89771a84f151987b109fadff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅美玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:13:07 - 09:25:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍如何強化戰場持續戰力，對於戰時高消耗情境下，彈藥籌獲之應變作為與規劃」，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 有請顧部長有請顧部長是 羅揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
11.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
25.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長早安剛剛報告有提到就是說我們國軍的彈藥籌貨來源有國內自製也賦予對外軍購或商購等多元的管道的各種方式來取得那前陣子有關於這個5.56公里這個鋼芯普通彈的這個外購價格被抨擊說買貴了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
33.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
38.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
因為說20年前經費局賣給美國每一顆只有6塊錢然後我們現在對外購買我們的單價高達18.86元那針對這個質疑到目前為止我都還沒有看到國防部有一個正式的說明而且我們也被質疑就是說我們明明有自己資產的能力為什麼還要跟國外來購置這個部分的話是不是請部長在這裡具體說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
78.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我先說明一下 跟美國那邊的合作主要是因為美國提供發射藥 抵火 包材 還有運輸我們只做彈頭 銅殼跟組裝的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
82.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
105.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以二十年前的部分是這個六派期間嗎有一個時間點是九十四年到民國一百年一個是一百零一年到一百零九年那這兩個都是由美方來提供發射要抵火跟包裝材等原料而且還有提供運輸等等那這個部分呢我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
108.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
128.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
205廠他所負責的是只有彈頭銅殼跟組裝的部分那跟委員再進一步報告一下就是說我們這一次有對外來採購這一次有對外來採購因為大家都在問對外採購的這件事情我先說明一下那個價格的部分現在絕標價格應該是可以公開的所以我們現在是15.5315.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
133.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
140.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
15.53不是說原先報導所講的是18.86那個是預算金額那是預算金額決標的金額是15.53那麼我們有本來就後置式核定的這個提供的入境的價格是16塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
149.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
177.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
一把所以我們對外採購並沒有比較貴這個要說明一下因為這個這兩件事情是不一樣一個是當時跟台美合作的這個這個是一件事那我們現在要自治軍備局有生產這個5.56的鋼琴彈這也是事實那另外跟委員報告一下之所以要需要是主要是這樣就是說因為我們從111年起有我們要涉及的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
178.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
181.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
涉及的訓量已經從111年起由每年的2340餘萬發已經提升到去年是5881萬發就是2340萬餘發到5881提升了2.5倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
201.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
230.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那所以我們現在一方面軍備局要擴產整個的產線那擴產整個的產線會在今年會陸續但是這個相關有一些底火的部分或者是還有一些現在可能是一個產線只能做一種彈那現在要把它拆成四條線那這個部分也其實是放在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
231.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
250.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
特別 敵火放在特別 或者軍備局再跟您跟委員報告 這個也是上禮拜跟馬委員都報告過了我們原本光中雲區的生產線會用貢線大概一年大概是兩千多萬發那現在已經請中科院來維治FN的產線有四條線 一條5.56 今年三月會全量產 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
275.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
7.62跟9公里手槍跟50機槍的槍彈是放在9月那這個達到之後就跟上次馬文君委員給我們指導的4000萬發5.56那這個量都沒問題的只是說要應付暫時我們的敵火我們原本我們的救線的敵火是大概2000多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
299.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們一定要提升到四千多八千多所以我們特別預算有特別編了一條抵火的線前一陣子不是有媒播出來說我們跟大使國際有買了四億顆嗎我們是為了要建置中間我們怕各軍種的量產所以我們購進來的實際上我們還是要爭取特別預算有一條就是要做抵火的敬請委員支持以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
刚刚我有听到部长说其实后面到最后的价格我们其实一颗大概是15.53一颗不是原先所报道的18.86那是对外购买的部分对我想请教今年我们应该也有自制我们的绝标的价格到底一颗是多少我们自制的部分价格是多少因为我有看到111年我们那时候的绝标价格是一颗是9.5块 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
327.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
9塊半 是嗎 111年的時候沒有 這個應該是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
332.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
338.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
跟委員報告 20年來陸軍從來沒有給我們委制過5.56鋼芯彈那這也是20年來我們因為搬遷的產能不足的調節第一次對外採購5.56鋼芯彈 M855跟馬委員講的沒錯 M855自製的部分 我們自製的價格到底是多少我們自製的價格 現在已經部搬價格就46塊了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
360.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們的部分就是16塊我們現在是16塊是不是今年114年1.15開始就是16塊委員講的是普通單因為我在想普通單是9.5普通單是同胞簽我們現在統一陸軍的需求就是同胞綱讓它實戰化 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
403.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
OK 好了解所以目前為止的話這個部分因為我沒有看到任何國軍在這個價格部分有自治能力這部分有提出對外的說明因為我們搜尋了很多的資料我想第一時間如果有質疑有被質疑有疑慮我想應該要第一時間就要來說明這個部分對不對這個因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
426.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
還有這個現在這個要有滴火有發射藥有什麼所以我也是聽了有點複雜所以我們會努力來澄清一下是因為已經事隔這麼多天了我到一直到昨天我們還在搜尋說我們有沒有一些官方的說明說實在的確實是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
444.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以才在這裡呢請教部長跟各個單位那再來還有一點就提到就是那個產能的這個部分因為我有看到像之前我們軍備局有評估戰時我國的作戰時日整體單兵步槍的耗彈大約是3.5億顆對不對這是你們之前有提到這個部分嗎是嗎這個部分之前我有看到你們軍備局有在評估這個部分我們軍備局不會評估作戰的需求量這個部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
459.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
466.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為我有看到媒體有報導這個部分到底我們如果是說我國作戰時日的話我們整體單兵步槍的這個彈耗大概是多少我想這個我們現在因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
472.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
498.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
就跟委員報告就是說我首先說明我們在108年的時候為了要配合高雄市的那個部分的一個經貿園區的一個開發所以我們在108年的時候是有曾經有請各軍種來回復我們各彈藥的一個需求那這個時候我們就加速生產然後在100年現場之前來 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
499.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
提供了這個含糊各項的需求然後在18年如期產製滿足但是後來就是因為我們剛剛講的我們現在是訓練的實戰化的訓練跟義務役的增兵的關係還有我們14天教召的關係這幾項因素包括義務役14天教召還有這個實戰化訓練都大幅的增加所以剛剛講的那個訓練的這個部分我們就會要來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
528.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
557.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
已經每一年要發射發出成長2.5倍那另外這個是等於是已經把訓練用的打的彈已經用掉了戰備的量所以我們為了要提升整個戰備的量我們現在要雙軌並行也就是說軍備局要產製那另外也如果有必要的時候也要進行這個外購那至於我們現在評估戰時的整個的量 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
558.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
573.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我想可能沒有辦法我想並不是以公開在這邊整個說明因為包括我們的吸行量補給還有等等的我想這個部分我們我們可能私下可以來說明但可能不以公開的來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
575.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以以現階段來講其實我們自己本身的生產的量其實基本上還是不夠所以我們還是需要對外採購是嗎 是這樣子現在按照軍備局的講法是說他特別預算我跟委員報告 按照我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
601.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
621.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
假如產線FN今年都互現了我們的新舊線暫時三班制下去產制我們一年都可以產一億發以上可是一個子彈要配一個低火我的低火是趕不上的所以我要用特別預算編一條低火的線低火的線假如增產完之後那條低火的線到達5000萬平時 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
623.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
633.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
暫時可以到達七千多萬將近那在原來的兩千多萬加下來我一年就可以生產一億發以上的敵火以上報告OK好謝謝那再來還有就是稍微一點時間我想再給我一點時間我有看到我們這個1.25兆的國防特別條例草案裡面有提到第四條第六項他有提到就是強化作戰持續量能相關的裝備那其實這個是不是就含了這個我們這個戰備彈藥的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
652.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
657.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
囤儲的這個部分 如果說這個條例一直沒有通過的話那這個部分是不是也受到一些影響 這有說明一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
658.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
683.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
委員好 戰委司司長在這邊跟委員報告我們在這次特別預算裡面除了我們剛剛討論的小口徑彈藥之外另外一個重點事實上是大口徑的彈藥那國軍目前大口徑的彈藥以及大口徑的發射藥是需要大幅提升那在之前我們已經說明過我們要把我們的戰備庫存因應敵可能的各種狀況去做提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
684.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
692.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那這個數量雖然沒有辦法在這邊公開可是它的額度是相當的大必須要用特別預算來做一次性的採購才有辦法滿足 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
694.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
714.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好 不管是這個1.25兆國防特別條例或是我們的這個國防預算我們真的希望在野黨一起來努力那明天呢我們又遇到這個程旭委員會在場也有程旭委員會的陳永康委員請大家一起來支持啦讓這個國防特別條例呢明天能夠順利的呢 覆為來做審訊好 以上謝謝 |