| IVOD_ID |
16700 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16700 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-22T08:31:21+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-22T12:47:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:15:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3eacd64100527991d8cd2752fdacda41c86a12e9ca99aa835c08685ad886dff471e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關原住民族委員會及所屬預算解凍案。三、審查「原住民族基本法」修正草案等12案：(一)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二條之二條文草案」案。(二)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃仁等30人擬具「原住民族基本法第十九條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員黃仁等26人擬具「原住民族基本法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第六條之一條文草案」案。(七)審查委員黃仁等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十八條之一條文草案」案。(八)審查委員黃仁等22人擬具「原住民族基本法第十條條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員黃仁等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第六條條文修正草案」案。(十)審查委員高金素梅等20人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十一)審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十二)審查委員盧縣一等18人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。【第一案至第三案合併詢答；第三案僅詢答，另定期處理】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:21 - 12:47:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
2012.571 |
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2025.799 |
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各位早安請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員11人已足法定人數好報告委員會我們先來開會進行報告事項請先宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2027.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2045.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一届第三会期内政委员会第二十次全体委员会议议事录时间一百十四年五月二十一日星期三上午九时四分至十二时三十二分地点红楼二零二会议室出席委员苏巧慧委员等十四人列席委员林德福委员等十八人列席官员大陆委员会主任委员邱锤正七相关人员 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2046.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2073.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長吳峰山暨相關人員主席牛昭暨委員許庭報告事項應宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況並備質詢大陸委員會主任委員邱垂政及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長吳峰山暨相關人員報告委員蘇巧慧等15人質詢由大陸委員會主任委員邱垂政及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長吳峰山暨相關人員答覆說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2074.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2097.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
決定一登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均與發言完畢詢答結束二委員高精素梅丁學中及牛許廷等三人所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三書面質詢及位及答覆部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會宣讀完畢謝謝請問各位委員上次會議意思錄有錯誤或遺漏之處好意思錄確定繼續進行本日議程請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2101.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2127.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
报告事项邀请原住民族委员会主任委员率同所属及财团法人原住民族文化事业基金会董事长与财团法人原住民族语言研究发展基金会董事长列席报告业务概况并被质询讨论事项一处理114年度中央政府总预算案有关原住民族委员会其所属预算解冻案期二案二审查原住民族基本法修正草案等12案一审查委员吴立华等16人拟据原住民族基本法增订 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2127.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2156.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
第二条之二条文修正查案二审查委员吴丽华等17人拟据原住民族基本法第二十一条条文修正查案三审查委员高坚素美等21人拟据原住民族基本法部分条文修正查案四审查委员黄仁等30人拟据原住民族基本法第十九条条文修正查案五审查委员黄仁等26人拟据原住民族基本法第十五条条文修正查案六审查委员郑天才等18人拟据原住民族基本法增订第六条之一条文查案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2157.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2157.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2188.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2210.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
謝謝跟委員會報告本日議程報告事項與討論事項我們合併詢答現在介紹在場委員及列席官員委員部分高金素美委員張志倫委員王美惠委員以及黃婕委員官員的部分我們原住民族委員會曾志勇主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2213.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2220.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好我們預算解凍案跟業務報告的部分我們請原住民組委員會曾主任委員志勇進行報告有請曾主委還有法案的部分也一併謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2235.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2257.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席各位委員大家好謝謝答應各位委員長期支持延續民主的事務那麼今天以下就這個施政今年的施政推動情形還有114年度預算凍結的辦理情形以及延續民主基本法修法的議題做簡要的報告第一個就是施政的這個推動情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2258.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2268.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
这一年来秉持行政院卓院长新力量新方向的施政理念落实赖总统国家希望工程的愿景 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2268.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2297.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
致力推動族群共融與多元貧錢在組織的制度方面本會在113年底完成行政院原住民族基本法推動會的功能的調整聚焦在健康錢還有社福錢以及就業錢等基本的潛力我們逐步縮減原住民族跟主流社會間的發展的落差在法制的推動方面平埔原住民族群社會法在5月15日 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2298.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2314.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
經過行政院會通過並送請大宴審議落實憲法判決的精神推動多元民主的認定同時原住民族保留地潛力恢復以及管理利用條例跟原住民族土地使用規則等 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2316.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2330.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們將持續以各部會來協調加速來研議以建前原住民族土地跟治理的體系另外本會跟內政部國防部在3月15日會前發布原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2331.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2353.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
愚民自制猎枪、愚枪、习可及管理办法那本会在3月18日发布了原住民自制猎枪安全使用信念实施要点推动符合宪法四字第803号的保障原住民狩猎的文化权利并且务实来兼顾社会的安全在文化语言方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2354.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2380.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們優先預祝協靈前足以沉浸式的教學後植原住民知識體系的內涵並且已經正式啟動國立原住民族博物館的籌設工程未來將結合數位科技來打造世界級的南島文化的平台也首創原住民族運動選手育成的方案支持基層以及後植體育人才提升競技的實力 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2381.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2410.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
在经济社会方面我们辅导部落产业的升级还有规划部落特色游程带动营业的产业并且推动文化健康站跟研制民族家庭服务中心基点落实在地服务扩大族人的支持网络针对盐乡以及都会的地区我们持续建设部落的遗迹环境优化道路的工程建置族群友善的空间在国际交流方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2411.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2427.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們連結南島語族的弟兄姊妹並且透過舒展還有親民的培力的活動還有部落體驗等等以文化拓展跟友邦還有我國的交流讓原住民族發揮國際參與的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2429.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2447.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第二个是114年度预算冻结的办理情形本会以及所属的文化发展中心在114年度的预算冻结的总金额达6.6亿多元那包含了业务会冻结70% |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2449.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2469.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
大概是4.4億多元那現在本會議所屬的文化發展中心的預算執行我們已經達到30%符合大宴結議要求的30%預算解凍的條件針對我們解凍狀況報告以下三點做簡要的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2470.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2486.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
關於行政的成本如水電會大樓管理會以及檔案的搬遷等等預算項目我們以依照大院的要求逐項來說明那第二個是針對人事與委員聆聘的爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2487.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2508.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
本會依據組織法修法的結果解聘了16位有給職的聘用委員並且一大宴的互代結議我們積極研議115年起我們實際編制希望能夠達到230人的這個補充人力的方案強化人力穩定性與專業的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2509.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2536.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第三 政策性的預算凍結項目比如像部落的基礎建設還有嚴明青年就業還有智慧治理以及南島文化推展等我們都依照規定提出專案報告並據實回應以部落緊急補助為例我們去年就編列了3400萬來支應風災搶救以重大的政策項目支持第一線地方政府及時來應變 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2539.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2557.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
第三針對原住民族基本法修法的說明面對本次12案有12個案的修正提案經過會診後我們重點如下首先對於強化原住民族土地錢還有自治錢的修法方向我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2558.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2580.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
高度尊重特別是第21條強調自由事前知情同意等原則對保障族人的潛意確實有很大的幫忙但相關條文涵蓋非常廣泛而且涉及私有地應該審慎釐清適用範圍以及法治配套以免對現行的財產權產生憲政的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2583.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2591.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
建議持續來收集地方政府跟族群的組織意見凝聚社會共識後我們再行推進其次 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2593.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2618.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有關原住民族日的入法還有順時計於假期的延長以及文化創意產業立法等條文目前已有相關的行政命令跟法律規定例如紀念日與節日實施條例還有文化創意的產業範圍建議避免重複的立法維持基本法作為原則性的母法的體制最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2618.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2645.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
对一部分涉及重大财政还有制度设计的提案比如说设立百亿规模的综合发展基金还有都市研究民主专访以及民族议会法人化等我们乐见其讨论未来我们也将持续推动法治研究以及族群的知行程序但是这需要跨部会的审慎协调整体评估政策性的可行性 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2647.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2666.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
面对多元社会的期待,延民会团队我们将持续服务族人,并且以务实合作的态度,推动制度与政策的改革,敬请各位委员持续关心,支持本会各项施政,让延驻民主的前逸,还有保障更往前迈进。最后,谢谢大家。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2671.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2684.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 謝謝我們曾主任委員的說明其他單位的報告我們請委員自行參閱並刊登公報報告委員會因為今天還有法案的審查所以我們要補一個提案說明的程序我們請盧憲英委員進行提案說明陸委員有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2692.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2715.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
本席今天有兩個提案第一個就是針對原住民主基本法公布施行後20年來設限於中央目的事業主管機關的經費及權責劃分以及各地方政府的財政能力不均故原住民主地區固有的交通建設水利設施農產運銷觀光及環境設施等改善情況不如預期 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2716.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2743.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
以致原住民族地區之技術環境及公共服務品質未能有效提升因此本席修正原住民族基本法第15條第一項第二項之規定明定要求政府設置原住民族地區建設基金其設置基金之規模應為新台幣100億元並以本法修正施行後五年內分年編列預算以加速改善原住民族地區各項基礎建設及利於促進原鄉觀光及產業等經濟活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2744.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2774.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
第二個就是因為最近太陽關店跟封店的設置一直困擾我們原鄉地區所以我再提了一個原區法第21條的立法議旨以及民國94年公佈施行的原條文關之該條文是關於原住民族最關心的知情同意權以及政府或私人與原住民族土地從事土地開發資源利用生態保育及學術研究原住民族的分享其相關利益原條文為政府或私人與原住民族 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2774.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2791.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
土地內從事土地開發資源利用生態保育學術研究因諮商並取得原住民主同意或參與原住民主的分享相關利益不限私有或公有土地建立原住民主土地應該是先於國家法規而存在的自然主權 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2793.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2816.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
應該沒有公有或私有之分然該辦法其公佈卻將知情同意權的行使僅限縮在公有民族民保留地上而排除私有之適用將造成原住民族傳統領域土地的支離甚至衍生出原住民族土地沿海一帶私有土地的開發案或再生能源開發案如太陽能風電及熱能碳勘及 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2818.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2837.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
开发等民间业则刻意选择私有原住民保留地而无法而无该办法的适用导致原住民的权益无法有效的伸张跟保障故本席为了保障原住民主土地权益特针对原住民主土地或部落范围土地划设办法 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2838.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2857.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這公佈所聲言僅限於公有原住民主保留地的爭議點應就母法部分現行原住民主基本法第21條的規定應修正為民國94年原基法公佈施行的條文文字以消彌此一爭議謝謝謝謝盧先生委員提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2863.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2886.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好那我們現在進行合併的詢答委員質詢前原例做幾點宣告第一 每月委員發言時間本會及原住民委員6分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘我們上午10點30分截止發言登記因為今天進行預算解凍案跟法案的處理我們就不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見沒有好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2889.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2912.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那麼現在進行巡打我們請登記第一位張志倫委員質詢好謝謝主席各位官員各位委員大家早有請我們原委會曾志勇主委曾主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2921.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2936.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
主委好主委有關於這個今天是這個有關原委會的預算解凍案首先要跟主委報告在去年6月24公布禁法補償條例第6條的修正草案也是我們很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2937.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2963.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
大家所關心的從114年的進法補償的金額要從每公頃3萬塊提高到6萬塊所以在過去我知道在去年的年底的時候很多不管是原住民委員在野黨要求說過去只提從3萬塊提到4萬塊的以後要把它提高到6萬塊在野黨立委大家全力的努力之下行政院終於妥協也在今年3月10號決定將這些進法補償的金額從 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2969.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2993.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這個從3萬塊要提到6萬塊所以增加了這個23億9964萬的經費然後呈報在行政院辦理追加預算那請問一下兩個問題第一個是說這個現在整個進行的進度如何那第二個就是要請教主委的事因為我們也不想要這樣子過去發生的情況再一次的發生那因為現在是五月的下旬原委會是不是應該已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2995.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3008.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
差不多編好了 明年也是115年度的預算有沒有把這個進法補償的預算給編足那因為你們自己有設算在從今年開始起 所有每年需要的金分是52.15億有沒有這樣 有沒有編足這樣的預算 請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3011.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3036.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好謝謝委員吼 那有關這個進化補償這個這個補償的經費我們已經在今年的3月10號我們就已經申請 我們跟那個那個我們的那個行政院來申請希望能夠來追加然後我們每一年都是在9月發放我們希望今年一樣如期是在9月會全數發放嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3038.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3044.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
9月好就是發到每公頃6萬塊對每公頃6萬好謝謝好那115年度的會不會也編組還是會編組到6萬塊嗎我們有編組有編組有編組就是下個年度的確定嗎希望是一樣的就是52.15億預估的對好謝謝那第二個當然謝謝主委的回應我相信這樣子的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3064.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3087.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
是會給所有的這個有這樣子需要的原住民一個很完整的一個補償那第二個我們今天討論的是這個有關於預算解凍的案子可是在預算解凍的時候我們當然也希望原委會可以有一個完整清楚的一個解釋那我們看到說第一個很多委員之前有提過的就是說有關於一般行政費下面的有關於水電費的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3088.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3113.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
他原本只有編列在113年只有編列85萬然後在114年的時候編列了350多萬所以增幅高達好幾倍那我們看到了這個原委會提供的說明是說其實過去有在109年到113年的時候其實每年的平均的水電費就是300多萬那我們想請問說為什麼過去每年的水電費都是300多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3114.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3129.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
可是在從110過去109年到113年的時候每年編列預算只有八十幾萬因為我們都知道水電費是時之時付的那這些不夠的錢到底是從過去到底是從哪邊所指引的這可以來做一些回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3134.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3159.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
主要就是因為我們往年的話都是預算水電費都編不足那考量到近三年的這個電費調漲已經超過30%了所以在114年的時候行政院就有增編預算給我們那是不是可以請您回應一下說為什麼過去水電費都編不足那你是從哪一個經費去我們是從一般的行政的業務費去先留用到 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3160.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3185.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那一般行政會不會壓縮到一般行政的業務不會兩百多萬不會影響到一般的業務那原本那些一般的業務原本都在做什麼使用哪一些業務的費用拿來去轉播到水電費可以回答嗎比如說像那個員工的一些福利的費用那員工的福利如何做保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3187.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3197.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
他就是從一般的比如說比如說什麼清潔維護或是保全警衛這些等等的業務費去做調餘所以這邊我要跟好有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3199.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3221.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以你有看到聽到剛剛你們同仁的回應嗎所以我們希望的是說原民會你們的這個所有的預算應該要編列要符合就是說真正的時之時付所以大家最針對原委會的預算才不會說這麼多的質疑就是說我們希望說不要拿這個大家同仁的福利來去做隨便的流用其實這樣會造成大家的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3223.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3231.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
福利會有一些的影響希望說未來相關的預算編列可以依照十知十負的整體的概念來好好編預算可以嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3231.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3260.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好OK好那第二個我們來請教一下就是說其實我們今天預算解凍案我相信在野立委我們都展現一個誠意想要讓預算所有都解凍讓大家有完整的預算來使用可是我們看到又看到另外一個其實在你們的這個預算的解編的這個專案報告書裡面寫的非常的不明確裡面有一個在第21頁裡面有一個就是說關於辦理原住民逐日及節慶活動所需經費是500萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3262.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3291.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
其實照113年的178萬元其實增加了321萬元所以這增加的幅率也是好幾倍可是在你們的報告書裡面其實沒有明確寫說為何要增加這樣子的一個經費的內容只是一個很普遍性講的是說又是因為要委託民間專業團隊來去協助辦理所以是不是請主委這邊我們想要協助擁有會可是你們可不可以明確的指示說為什麼預算要增加兩到三倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3292.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3319.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
好 那這個是處長來說明好 請處長說明根據內容報告這個部分我們當時在提供給大院的這個一四年度預算科目細部計畫說明表裡面已經有說明就是說這筆經費主要是要包含辦理原住民族政策高峰會一場次國家希望工程成果發表一場次然後製作與推播原住民族致敬影片一支頒發原住民族獎章還有辦理重大原住民族政策專題演講三場次 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3321.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3341.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這個在當初提供給大院的這個細部計畫說明表已經有已經有名列這些工作項目我請問一下你有寫在今天的這個報告裡面嗎沒有那是不是會後可以把這個資料再給我好不好所以你的意思是說你有增加這個舉辦這個表演的場次大概多幾場我們當然有多了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3348.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3356.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
總共多了4場多了4場是好那會後再把資料提供提供給我們好不好謝謝好那現在請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3358.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3384.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好 謝謝主委那我們也要請教就是說關於你們第113頁裡面特別有強調的是本席很在意的就是原住民的朋友他的第一個原住民的社會住宅不足以及之前在質詢的時候好像提到說我們原住民的朋友要排社宅的時候常常都排隊都排很久拿到號碼牌都拿到很後面所以當時本席在質詢的時候有特別拜託說你們是不是可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3385.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3400.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
查詢就是說我們這些原住民的朋友到底有多少人還在排社宅有多少人其實現在過去是排社宅一直沒有住不到的人數你們有沒有統計那我在第一百億失業裡面也有看到說你們終於有來做委託這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3402.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3428.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
委託要來處理這件事情我來念一下這個內容他說那個園民會於114年委託辦理原住民族的住宅輔導有委託專業服務勞務採購案來調查以及推估原住民民族家族居住協助需求的類型以及戶數那我現在想要請教主委因為已經有在辦理了現在辦理的情形的狀況如何是不是可以可不可以讓大家知道一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3431.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3454.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
報告委員我們現在目前每四年原住民經濟狀況調查是每四年調查一次那我們今年開始我們居住調查研究我們分兩部分來做進行第一部分我們已經先盤點有社宅需求的行政區只要超過1500人以上表示有社宅需求目前是25區那25區以後我們認為說接下來我們會跟內政部協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3458.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3475.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
去比對他目前正在興辦社宅的有幾處然後再去評估說然後再去比對完之後才知道說我們後面可以協商哪些地區是優先協調能夠協助原住民入住社宅的目前做法是這樣子所以第一個你會建立原住民社宅嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3479.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3496.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我們目前根據原住民人口比較多的行政區超過一千五百人以上行政區總共二十五個行政區那二十五個行政區呢那我們在比對在內政部在當地有沒有新辦設宅的新辦計畫那這一部分有確定完比對完之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3498.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3521.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
這部分就是我們要優先協調地方政府努力提高原住民入住社宅的保障只是比對各縣市原住民人數較多而且他們有社宅需求的縣市比對出來這些縣市以後再跟縣市政府來討論說是不是可以讓這些人有什麼樣的機制可以入住社宅是嗎那這樣的報告大概什麼時候會出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3526.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3550.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個報告應該跟我們再個一個月的時間我們就會一個月可以出來那希望說這個報告出來以後可以提供給我們所有內政委員會的委員來去做參考那最後一個問題還有時間的關係那剛剛特別有提到說這個語言是文化傳承跟發展的根本尤其原住民的語言的復興跟推廣不僅影響到原住民族的教育體系的建構也影響文化的保存跟發揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3551.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3578.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那剛剛特別在裡面有提到說這個足語幼兒園現在只有79班所以受益人數現在是有限的那我想要請教一下說現在國小教育部將國小階段的這個足語師資的認證門檻從高級調到中高級那我們就幼兒會的立場如何確保師資的培育以及這個進修的機制可以同步補強以免避免這些教育的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3579.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3584.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
跟委員報告齁那個這個主委教師我們希望是 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3585.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3613.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
他能夠他的這個足以認證必須是要中高級中高級我們現在在能力這個在測驗上我們要把它分成有聽說還有讀寫還有這四個都要會的你只要會先這個聽說你就可以來通過這個中高級的足以認證你就可以取得這個足以老師的這個資格我們希望更多的足以老師來 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3614.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3634.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
加入這個我們這個足語的這個讓我們的小朋友更多人來寫我們的足語所以主委的意思是說過去從高級就是要通過高級的門檻把它變成中高級所以未來老師人數會變更多然後未來可以受到這些那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3635.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3653.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
足以教育的人數 你們也考慮要增加對你們有這樣的計畫是嗎是OK好 那還有一個問題剛才看到也是很重要的問題就是有關於這個我們有關於援助民族青年就業跟基進的問題我們有一個百萬的創業計畫就是說如果你符合特定條件的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3654.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3673.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
你就可以得到100萬的創業基金我們過去10年跟主委報告10年我們輔導了200家的企業這邊我們提到一個很好很優質的一個數據說企業的存活率是86.5%所以我們對這個很好奇因為我們覺得這做得很好是不是可以請主委在會後的時候提供說 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3675.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3693.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這些的企業是分別是在哪些的縣市那它是在哪些的產業然後我們來確認說是不是各族群在這個各個縣市裡面我們的原住民都可以認真都可以得到一些創業的補助而且他們都開支善業可以嗎好好謝謝好謝謝好謝謝張志倫委員的諮詢下一個我們請王美惠委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3708.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3711.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
主席 當下主委曾主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3719.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3741.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
主委好主委在這裡本事先幫你探討一下我們最近修改的節日條款雖然是充滿有說要修也好,不說要修也好,但是畢竟已經通過了所以本來是一天變三天在這個過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3747.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3757.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們有十六族的時間的地盤不一定因為依您規定的像阿美族有阿美族的當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3759.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3782.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
主委本身要跟你在這裡探討這個問題第十六座裡面他們所有的票款你剛才去管理第十六座的是規定阿美族的愛票一位到二位布農族是愛票幾位到幾位你剛才有這個評估過來,請主委你回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3785.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3793.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
跟委員報告,我們作為原住民,什麼時候要過豐年祭,還是什麼時候要過小米祭都有一定的時間,譬如說排完族,魯凱族是七月八月,小米豐收的時候,阿美族也是在這個時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3803.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3808.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
有固定嘛有固定有固定的當中我們要票款的時候他才有固定他可以三天分三天簽約或是一天三天總一天票 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3819.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3823.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這三天主要是這樣,可能是因為有的現在都在讀書嘛要對自己的部落,可能時間上要三天比較...比較...比較...比較...比較能夠虔誠來參與比較有綜藝的時間,要坐車回去,要做什麼準備可能還有那個時間嘛主委,我來請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3845.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3848.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
因為我現在要問的就是,譬如說阿美族,他譬如在六月八月的時候,我要來請教的時候,是三天做一次請,還是我可以分開請? |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3862.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3871.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
跟委員報告 如果照這個法律這樣過 應該是三天你要去簽不是應該喔 一定過是一定會效果的喔對 應該是三天這位簽喔 主委本身來講 不要說應該因為既然過了 你就 相為 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3882.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3884.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
他就不擔心,你說要說清楚,讓北省知道,我們原住民北省的認知,老闆也知道說,他要怎麼請假,要怎麼休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3898.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3903.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
也不要造成我們原住民要休息的人的困擾讓要請我們原住民的伯父的人知道說他就是當時差不多當時要休息我們如果不休息是他自己的管理不對是要不然我們想這個是要保障他可以公明正大去休這三天是 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3927.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3945.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
是不是這樣 是這樣就是做一次票還是分幾票做一次 做一次啦好 主委本席跟你請教一下這個票三天會在幾年會落實施落票還是每年到票 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3948.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3956.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
總統公佈後就直接... 我知道啦 我還不知道總統公佈之後 我是說 你知道我們的發佈是...因為...兩名可以修啦對啊 今年就可以修啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3966.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3971.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
對啊,你如果說這樣,不會選也要請教也要問,對不對?你可不可以知道,總統公佈之後,會最少有兩族選不到我如果去請教,這兩族選不到,可以補選嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3992.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4000.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
因為普通人,我們這個,所謂我們這個豐年祭,是說這種祭儀節慶,是都在那天,不能說那天過後,你還要報喔,不用報嘛,好來,來主委,你說的說不用報啦,譬如這樣說啦,我是阿美族,我的先生是布農族 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4018.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4031.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我應該是要對先生走,這樣我是要叫阿美族還是要叫布農族,我可以叫布農族嗎?可以,你叫布農族當然可以最主要就是不管叫還是說,你就是選擇一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4038.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4046.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這樣我說給你聽,如果過了不能走的時候,如果發佈之後,他如果對先生、對太太,他也可以再申請啊像你說的意思,他也可以再申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4059.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4062.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
通過的我們現在通過這個條文必須是本人啦我當然啦像我我就不能唱啦要本人啦對啊我比較不知道要本人我現在就是說配合的當中一定有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4076.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4079.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們沒有這個問題嘛我們沒有工作的時候是不是我可以跟太太也好,跟先生也好來申請啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4091.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4095.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
主委,我如果問你,你也要求,我也要求,因為這十一年是稍微事情,但是我覺得我們想這個的時候,我們的細節完全沒有說,完全要怎麼修,完全要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4112.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4124.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
到現在,我只能問一件事,是否有企業改?因為他們請很多人,就固定要請一個關注民,我們的認真發表的關注民,有的到現在,也不知道,主委,所以我好意,要跟你說,你要想好事,想好好,未來我們的關注民, |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4140.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4145.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
要去吃陶爐也好,陶雞請我們也好,他才知道有這個問題的存在因為我覺得這很大觀的,剛才我來講,有兩族你們發佈的時間已經過了,對他也不公平,但是不公平的當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4162.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4179.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
配合性,他可以對配合性請,是不是這樣,是啦,好來,主委,在這,本席還要跟你探討一下,平埔族,平埔族,在大法官第十八十一年的十五月,就說我們三黨來, |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4182.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4192.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我們就要平步足 歸納瑞冠族民家 但是我們有看到鄉長的認真 要怎麼解決這個問題到時候你認為鄉長站出來 你覺得要再補充什麼來 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4205.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4226.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
現在這個我們這個平埔原住民這個身分法已經送來大宴現在當然就是說我們完全是依照憲判就是憲法判決的意旨來用但是我們平埔的朋友當然就是說他們想說最好是所有的權利一概就到位啦但是是最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4227.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4235.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
他是願意的愛 他們的狀態覺得說我又願意屬於原住民 你說你老父這個法律在這裡我不是道道地地的原住民但是我們的憲法的判決意思是這樣我們要想就是民主別先認定 再來認定他的身份他很多的那個管理 還有他受到的一些這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4256.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4263.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
從過去的這些破壞跟現在的山地原住民和平地原住民是不相同的不相同真的不相同所以是一定要有另外的專法來保障我們的這個來阻止平埔原住民現在我跟你說這個問題你要好好去處理因為該 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4277.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4285.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
認主歸宗,愛護認主歸宗啦,不是跟一個名聲而已說愛一個是關主民,跟青菜好一下這樣也不夠準確,所以這個我們要好好跟行政院,跟我們的院會的委員來看要怎麼樣,可以做好事,好不好主委,主委在這裡本身要跟你探討一下,你們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4307.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4325.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
電量的價位適當有80年到84年希望透過融資的時候福祉部落的理由好、運作好、生活、公益、產業但是在這個預算正當83年我們有3億4千多萬給你們做但是第三季的時候你們要執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4336.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4345.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
39% 但是你們的認證和發表的這個時間今天你們收起來會報告到整個本縣辦公室跟你們要要的資料看 一定是 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4353.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4359.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
八十七趴,中間要八十八趴,但是主委我要跟你說,不只有在吹,還有在做,沒有在吹,慢慢做,你看第三季到現在,時間多久了,是因為什麼關係,才會差很多,中間一倍的執行率,所以本身要跟你說, |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4379.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4387.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
要好好的去做,因為跟他認真就要認真,不要慢慢的走,有嘴就有做再來,我們行政院的新董事,更好好的地方的創生裡面的結尾有一個福祉原鄉綠色產業的發展裡面的結尾 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4403.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4410.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
總金額有兩億,分做四檔來做,這四檔裡面有二十間,二十間裡面定的一間補助一千萬我要問主委,你的綠色產業的標準是什麼?官鄉有夠有什麼綠色的產業? |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4428.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4447.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
請問福祉的對象是什麼?地方要怎麼去告白的關注人在這裡面每當有這麼多工作要做你們要怎麼選出需要做的人來 你簡單回答一下就是說那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4451.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4457.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
經營這個排碳的部分,我們會找...主委,我講的,剛才講得很清楚,你現在聽到有我講的意思嘛因為我這陣子的時間夠了,拜託你給我一個書面給我,第二天的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4470.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4478.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這是應該向正義協助關注民要讓他們做好事不是因為個人而異要讓什麼人做就要讓什麼人做這樣就不好了這樣也不公平要讓認真罷免的關注民有這個機會參與以上是 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4498.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4501.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
謝謝王美惠委員下一位我們請麥玉珍委員質詢主席有請主委主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4522.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4525.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
主委好 主委好 你要喝茶嗎沒關係 沒關係好 請教主委我們前主委花了145萬的我們國家的費用 人民的血汗錢出版出版一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4546.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4552.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
專刊一共125頁有41頁是就是講自己講自己41頁60頁就是主委各地的照片還有只有24頁是在介紹言明會主委你在去年被選的時候也承諾說要 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4570.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4573.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
檢討改進但是目前檢討改進的是什麼去年你有說未來不會再發生但是我們請教一下我們的內部是否針對這個專刊內容審核流程進行的如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4590.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4598.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
針對裡面的一個就是主委說你有無任何的追究的作為 或者還是說目前我們的主委在已經下台了整個事件就是不了了之嗎 這個三個問題我要希望你謹慎的回答 不可以跟我們我們委員這樣 互相這樣他聽不下去 聽到會氣起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4617.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4643.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
跟委員報告第一個就是說這個我們在昨天已經收到審計部的一些對我們的指證那我想我們會依據審計部的一些這個規定我們來做一些回應那而後就是說像類似這樣譬如說沒有在辦理這樣的一個項目的時候我們就不要再繼續編下去了就不要再編下去了第二個那這樣的一個專刊 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4645.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4668.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
我們內部有特別的檢討我們不允許在這樣的這個狀況在發生我們可以可以做一些就是說我們的所有執行的成果的一個報告但是不需要對個人太多的這個這個先養自己個人的一個這個就是整個他的成果我們想我們會做很大的一個改變那今年就沒有做像去年就沒有我們就沒有做已經改變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4671.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4672.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我們內部要檢討要有做一些懲處要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4690.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4702.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
所以要怎麼去追回或者怎麼樣去做吧不只是說我們未來你講的我們認同我們也接受說你有新的作為希望大家就不要放但是我們整個審核或者是說他這樣子的話就這樣崩潰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4707.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4735.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
這樣大家就不會去這樣嗎不會啦所以你會去追究會去看如何去處理讓大家看到的是說我們現任的主委真的是有在做事情謝謝但是我們當初這樣子的專康我們就是我們的原住民主政策法規收集整理辦理原住民的族人口的基礎資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4737.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4751.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
的規劃及建設的研究項目挪用來所以凍結時說明要求人民會要提出具體的計畫但是我看到報告裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4752.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4756.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
就是沒有這樣子的內容成效啊所以我們看過送來的報告沒有啊你不能只是說我們檢討過去未來但是的內容我們真的沒有看到報告裡面在從就是說112年至113年整合原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4773.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4797.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
主人口基礎的資料庫持續執行中研究如何應用都市原住民族的發展也就是說這個並不是一個全新的計畫進行整個就是一年的整合我們再審議算到現在所以具體的計畫內容又如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4799.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4826.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
它是如此進度又如何 效果又如何因為報告中我們沒有看到啊所以你說說 人工你煮了沒拿給我們就算了所以我們就是要你們報告就是要有一個完整成果因為你要設立目標你才能去執行 才能完成這個目標但是完全我們沒有看到沒有看到的話 你要做什麼 我也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4828.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4842.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那你就講的內容也不清不楚但是我們就是進行一年了一年多的整合這樣看不好過啊那是不是我那個處長做簡要的說明好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4844.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4866.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
好跟委員報告那這部分我們原本與這個中研院合作的這個資料庫後來因為我們後來有推動這個原住民族智慧治理計畫我們是把這個資料庫的內容都納入到我們的智慧治理計畫裡面去做後續的應用所以目前我們這個都園的一些基礎資料的內容都可以在我們的這個智慧治理的資料庫裡面去做應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4867.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4893.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
好講得好講得好我再跟你講你講的是生化原住民治理智慧治理計劃解凍案你說放在這裡14年編列的預算新增了生化原住民組織智慧治理計劃但是呢在之前呢就有一個就是我們在在這個依據預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4897.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4904.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
法的第五條的規定這四年就是四年期繼續經費該要的計劃內容剛才你說的但是呢的配額但是呢我們這筆的預算呢有合理性還有說預期的時程還有說難以追追蹤的計劃的概念但是呢在我們看喔你看喔我們的在建構援助民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4926.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4930.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
智慧治理中長期計劃 同樣的啦我真的要堅持幾個字 中長程 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4937.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4941.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以我们的内容差异非常笼统就是短短就是陈述主委你看这笔议算是高达5328万但是你们提出的报告写不满一张A4一面的A4不是一张一面的A4都不满就5328万 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4965.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4978.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以呢就多了三個字多了三個字所以呢是實際上的工作內容建構研究民主智慧治理計畫只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4979.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4983.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
換湯不換藥啦 所以這樣子的話你們就寫的是說優化加強 優化什麼加強什麼完全沒有所以呢我們相信不只原住民的朋友不接受我們全國納稅前的國民也沒辦法接受你們這樣子的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5004.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5013.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這個預算的分配這樣子的效果在哪裡看我們主委說明還是我們的你講的嘛 你要說放在這裡 放在這裡就打臉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5024.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5043.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
對 這個部分 因為我們現在其實是第一期計畫是2010年到2013年就結束那我們現在2014年執行的是第二期計畫那第二期計畫除了我們會持續再去收集就是更廣泛的收集這個原住民族相關的散落在各部會跟地方政府的一些資料之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5043.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5054.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那另外我們也會運用一些新的資訊技術去重新去盤整這些資料然後讓它可以去支援我們的整個決策所以我們第二期會加上深化這個詞的用意是這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5057.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5061.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
深化、優化、加強那個詞大家都要說但是那個內容是什麼我們看不到我們也要說講這句話每個人都會講但是內容內容是我們要看的我們想要的是說你的執行是真的達到這個目標達到這個目標所以才是我們最重要的好 接下來我再問一下就是說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5084.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5113.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
以推人员的不足的部分哈语言留存援助民主文化非常重要的一环我们都很认同加上现在政府也推各国的语言我们都很感觉很骄傲哈这个就是我们一定要保存的但是在我们设置足以推动人员实施计划编列了1亿500万这笔预算去年相比就增加了300万 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5114.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5123.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
但我們提醒主委 預算編列固然很重要 語言推廣我們都很認同但是實際行政才是人才的 行政人才是我們的關鍵因為實際上全國到去年8月底 我們金融人員還不足超過30人 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5136.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5152.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
甚至四個縣市四個縣市沒有足以推動人員依據我們的設置辦法除了直轄市各個縣市還有原住民人口要達到1500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5154.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5178.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
1500人非原住民族的地區在次公所多應用所以現在我們看到的是123人民還有多少缺額因為這個是我們看的是去年的數據所以我現在今年我們沒有看到所以說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5179.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5182.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
為什麼呢我們的縣市怎麼樣去補足這個資料庫或者是說我們應用如何因為我們是來提出問題解決問題所以我們希望說要給我們一個答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5194.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5213.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
因為根委員報告這個足以專採的人力我們是跟大寫合作來培訓信用合一來增加就業那自己剛剛所講的還有一些事還沒有足以老師的話我想我們會盡快來檢討讓這些沒有足以老師的我們盡快來補好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5217.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5231.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
怎麼做啊 經開補我怎麼說你怎麼樣 就是因為我們感覺就是我們要如何讓我們的就是各個縣市我們順利啊 順利通過這樣的資料庫補足這個人員因為我們傳承我們很重要 因為我們各組的語言嘛各組的語言我們都不足 現在只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5243.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5266.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
就缺了30個人像我們的傳承的語言就就很對不對我們要怎麼樣去說以推人員都不足的話我們希望我們希望就是我們要推廣還有保存非常重要我們希望支持也肯定這個計畫所以我們希望我們的主委還有我們認識的之前在台中的我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5268.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5298.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
希望就是真的要監督要各個縣市我們要以推人員要補足讓我們的語言還有文化真正的讓我們全國看到也讓我們的語言去到哪裡我們那傳承很重要的希望主委你有真正的作為不能只說我補足補足你怎麼做這個部分我們希望你要有一個具體的因為我們看到所有的計畫內容都不具體只是一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5299 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5313.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
就會解決任何的事情我們沒辦法接受啦好謝謝因為時間的關係希望你真正的有讓你回答你也誰答不出來所以我們希望你也有具體的給我們讓有一個依據你有一個依據有一個目標你就往這個依據目標去執行這樣你管理你要叫人做到有好處啦謝謝好我們謝謝麥義貞委員下一位我們有請劉許廷召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5331.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5332.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
謝主席 曾主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5340.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5364.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
委員好主委剛剛那個我們有委員在討論那個碎石祭儀的部分是這你回答的不清不楚會讓大家誤會啊這個碎石祭儀不管是一天或三天對不對是不是第一個要有原住民身份才能放對第二是自己或配偶擇一參加嘛是其實這樣不就好了嗎是就很清楚嘛塔杜亞他在美會委員講阿美族是布農族對不對然後各自參加可以或者是兩邊參加同一個也都可以嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5365.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5393.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
但是如果譬如說我老婆是阿美族的但我不能用碎石記憶嘛因為我沒有原名身份對不對你們其實也這個其實在你們網站上都查得到啦加強宣導好不好這第一個提醒剛剛稍微你剛才也說這樣啦對阿說有錢賺要宣導嘛說有老闆走阿錢賺對我今天就要講就是要順著這個話題往下講就是談有關於這個碎石記憶放假相關的一些配套措施來 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5395.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5409.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
這個我先問一下把一個修法過程中的一個狀況把它問得清楚就是說我們在3月31號我們在進行這個紀念日及節日條例實施條例在審查的時候這當初來代表原民會的我們副主委中副主委就講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5411.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5432.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
沒有辦法考慮到社會的整體環境跟實際執行的情形如果族人要多放三天假會面臨不容忽視的挑戰比如說勞動市場處於不利的狀況就業機會的衝擊和族群關係的緊張他說因為原住民在勞動業比較多替代性很高所以要尊重實際需求找平衡點 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5433.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5447.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那我們當然就問啊說我們希望讓原住民的勞工大家都知道勞工辛苦嘛就希望他工時降低一點不要血汗結果你們作為原住民主管機關自己在講說不要放太多比較好你是這個意思嗎這是你們官方的態度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5449.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5467.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
不是因為放三天假當然也要謝謝大宴的決定就是說這個可以讓我們在平地的特別是回到比較遠的這個部落裡面這個三天讓他有一個很好的這個時間可以完全的參加碎石祭儀啦這個是好的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5468.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5488.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
那至於就是說這個就是考量到說因為我們所有的價平地放什麼價我們原住民就放什麼價也可以放嘛對那現在是我們原住民又多了這個三天的價那但是就也有一些朋友就說因為怕我們的這個公司行號會對原住民的這個朋友印象會不好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5491.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5503.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
會讓我們的原住民印象不好但是就是說我們樂觀其成啦就是說對原住民的寄語放假大家要尊重就是說希望他們能夠在這個時間能夠完完整整的回去參加原住民的寄語 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5504.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5533.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
他代表原住民的文化價值當然要幫他捍衛這個事嘛不只是工時的降低回去參加碎石祭儀這些祭儀才有人參加才有保留和傳承的意義嘛所以這你當然要堅持嘛這我是覺得你都想太多了為什麼我講想太多了因為碎石祭儀往下延伸我們要讓它能夠落地還有兩塊部分要討論一個叫紅蘿蔔 一個叫棒子我就先講棒子 來這個 主委或者是大家都可以回答齁這個原民萬一在 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5535.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5559.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
職場被僱主欺負沒有辦法不讓他放這個假的時候僱主付什麼代價你知不知道那我們全國大概有10區的那個就業服務辦公室我們會有75個原住民的就業服務員會協助我們的勞工如果在這個相關有遇到一些相關被霸凌或是一些相關的一個職場就是要請這次要請碎石記然後如果老闆不讓請會發生什麼事 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5560.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5577.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
當然可以有申訴的一個制度申訴是跟誰申訴地方的那個勞應該是跟勞動體系嘛對不對因為如果勞基碼79條有明確規定如果違反第37條也就是應休假日未給予休假者除了台幣兩萬元以上一百元以下是罰還嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5578.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5605.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
所以它其實是有政策工具可以做處理那政策工具處理這我們當然是希望大家遵守法令對不對你剛剛有講大家都要找勞動局或者就業服務系統那請問你原民系統有沒有特別針對稅值計議我剛剛為什麼講說這個東西的宣導要很清楚不能只有宣導嘛你還要有很清楚的申訴專線嘛我們要幫原住民的族人講話啊對不對那你們這邊有沒有相關的一些安排讓大家可以更清楚的知道規則然後知道可以這個權益可以被確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5606.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5629.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我們有10區的一個救福辦公室75個救護員都可以來做一個協助那另外當然如果說還有更好的沒有法律輔助的一些相關的如果是從經過申訴之後有地方的一些勞動的一些單位我們也都會就近來去做一個轉介跟你剛講說你的10個那個救護員是原民會系統下面還是是的是原民會系統75個都原住民的一個救護員 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5630.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5650.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這個部分你要一樣可能不打給這幾個服務站然後要讓所有我們基層的原住民的弟兄姊妹知道所以有所謂的申訴管道跟諮詢的專線跟申訴的管道好不好這不要只丟給勞動局因為雖然是降低工時但文化傳承也很重要這第一個提醒那我們兩位基金會的董事長兩位基金會的董事長不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5658.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5674.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我要花一點時間問啦就是我們原住民碎石記憶放假你們有沒有帶頭做起啊這請兩位基金會的這個董事長文化基金會跟語言研究基金會你們會裡面同仁大部分是原住民朋友嘛對不對他們修這個碎石記憶架的人數有多少佔的比例是多少你們有統審過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5679.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5705.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
報告委員我們都鼓勵員工休假而且我們希望在碎石技的過程他可以學習文化所以我們的比例非常高都讓我們同仁你有數字嗎多少人多少人休7乘5不錯有做功課因為我們做電視作業廣播作業比較你也比較清楚有這一套嘛對不對好不好所以你要協助7乘5當然要再高一點嘛來另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5706.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5731.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
委員好,在演藝會的部分上,在過去還沒有制定,我們已經開始推動,所以在,呃,同時我們可以通過他主任的參與,然後去參與寫那個報告,回來所以要做一些的分享,以上。那比例啊,他剛剛講七成五有修,你們這邊呢?基本上我們這是,只要我們的族群的那個制定的時間,我們都會讓他們回去。 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5731.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5754.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
沒關係 你會後補也可以啦就是說你們到底多少員工原住民比例然後過去修碎紙記憶的比例是多少所以我為什麼要問這件事好 兩位請坐我們台視請主委就為什麼要去談這件事情的原因是因為剛剛講完棒子就是法規的規範你要紅蘿蔔嘛 就是獎勵跟示範嘛我丟一個 我簡單 因為時間到了齁我丟一個簡單的例子 我們的客委會對不對 就曾經在做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5756.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5779.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
叫做你們原民會有114年促進原住民就業獎勵計畫嘛對不對有僱傭獎助嘛等等這些東西你當然應該要維持但你要課委會曾經做過多元文化的企業社會責任有課於友善企業獎也就是說他如果讓職場變課於友善對不對還有給予獎助給予補助給予鼓勵對不對你原住民這邊也是嘛原住民花更多的心力在討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5780.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5797.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
增加參與率嘛就業參與率嘛讓原民朋友的就業不要變成問題嘛那同樣的你們有沒有針對願意大量雇用原住民或者是說讓原住民有一個友善職場環境好的 這樣的一些企業你們有沒有做過統整有沒有做過鼓勵有沒有做過宣導請你回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5798.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5815.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
像這樣就是說對我們族人比較友善的我們都有做這個公開的獎勵那超額獎勵超額比如說他禁用他超額禁用我們也有給也會補助嘛對那是聘用的部分嘛那比如說以碎石祭這件事情來講我剛剛為什麼問兩個基金會那是你們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5819.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5838.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
帶頭示範嘛比如說原文會有7乘5對不對你們也要去調查一下到最後是稅時計上路之後到底大家休假的比例是什麼到底實務上他是被壓制的還是有被鼓勵的哪一些企業願意主動的配合法令讓原住民朋友降低工時維持文化傳承你就要幫他拍拍手嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5839.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5862.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
你就要飲餓養善嘛 不是飲餓養善 這不能飲餓罰餓養善嘛 對不對你要鼓勵好的對的 然後讓這件事情有紅蘿蔔有棒子讓這個碎食技藝增加 看得到也要吃得到啦這是我今天本席在質詢的時候要特別提醒原住民族委員會謝謝相關的一些計畫 詳細的配套措施跟我剛剛問的一些資料 請你會有詳時提供 可以嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝 辛苦了 謝謝好 我們謝謝劉許廷召委 下一位我們請張宏祿召委 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5884.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5904.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我們請曾主委曾主委有請這個主委我想請教一下我們平埔族的身份修法期限已經快到了不知道我們做的準備如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5905.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5930.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
不知道我們做的準備如何了在5月15號我們宴會已經通過那現在也已經送大宴送到宴裡面來我們希望很快的能夠排這個議程我們趕快來審讓我們的平埔原住民身分的族人早一點取得這個原住民的身分除了這個之外這個是法律上的嘛這個法律上的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5931.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5954.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
已經大家都知道了幾年了嘛這個只是完成最後的程序而已啦我所請教的是那平埔族取得原住民的身份他的人數非常多耶是他的人數如果我沒有記錯的話他的人數應該比現行的我們平原加山原的人數還多喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5956.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5975.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
按照內政部的統計至少98萬人那現在山地原住民跟平地原住民才61萬人但是還是要跟委員報告這個就是說先原住民就是原住民族的這個認定之後再社會來再起的原住民的社會那最後會登記多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5977.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5982.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
還不知道會登記多少人但是我們可以預判在今年底大概也會有10萬人來登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5986.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6009.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我當然知道啦 他要去登記才可以取得啦但以我們現在的 手頭上的有資格的 接近百萬啦到底確實多少 我們也無從得知啦我要請教主委的是那你原民會 你忽然在未來 不要說忽然 在未來的幾年內啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6010.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6022.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我相信啦應該幾十萬人去登記應該會有吧你們的預估咧對應該會相當於現在的原住民好那你所有的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6023.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6043.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
原住民身份,在台灣具有原住民身份的人我們就不要說九十幾萬,快一百萬全部登記一半人去登記就好了啦你的業務量幾乎要增加一倍是對啊你的業務量增加,我剛剛請教你是說這些我們有沒有去準備要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6045.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6071.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
不然你多了一倍的人要服務喔那你的原民會的人員夠嗎那你的經費夠嗎我覺得這個可能啦是原民會成立以來這麼多年來成立以來第一次遇到人數暴增將近一倍那你的業務量有可能會增加一倍喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6072.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6086.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那我們有沒有及早去因應我簡單說就好了光他去登記然後去認證身份從地方政府到原民為什麼這些你就要花多少人力對這個我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6090.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6116.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那個整個原住民的人力增加我想我們也已經在盤點我們手頭上的一些資源當然這個資源一定是要再加的那馬上要做的就是要馬上一開始他們一登記我們馬上再做甚至現在已經有的在做了就是就他們的語言還有文化這個部分是第一要做的就是語言跟文化的部分我們持續要趕快的來協助他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6117.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6134.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那至於就是說未來在這個人力上還有未來支援的這個藝術上我想我們一定會跟業靈妹來做報告我們也要想死的來盤查他們陸續會碰到不管是醫療啦不管是就業啦不管是社會福利等等我們都會盤點出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6137.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6162.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我必須要說啦我們當初整個園民會設計的初衷跟架構其實是沒有平埔族原住民這一塊喔這個是一個相當大的轉變喔那你的服務的內容等等的這其實是從園民會成立以來這一個是非常非常巨大的轉變喔這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6165.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6184.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
也不是說立法院要怎麼樣喔我會覺得是說這個是我們原民會要真的要去及早應應去處理這些事剛剛主委你所說的他們的文化園那個要去重視要去保留那是一件事情那是原民會我說真的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6186.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6214.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
這些事啊如果平埔族原住民啊他今天沒有有取得原住民的身份我們也要去做這件事而不是說他取得才做我們本來就要做了我現在可以預計的是你未來你龐大的服務量啊還有我平埔族我已經取得原住民的身份了對不對那我本身我到底可以享有哪些原住民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6216.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6237.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
他總總的法律上的他到底是有些他可以適用有些他可以不適用我相信很多你每天接到這個電話你的原民會就會封掉喔這一點我不知道我就舉這一點那主委我們要如何因應我跟委員報告他們取得原住民的身分之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6238.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6247.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我想他們的這個潛力義務一定有優先的這個排戲我們也會跟他們做溝通做協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6248.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6273.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那在憲判的精神是未來的三年我們會另立專法就是為我們的平埔族的族人量身打造要怎麼樣來這個對他們的權益我們還有我們有另立還是要另立一些專法來因為原住民目前適用的華麗不竟然也不當然絕對就可以適用我們現在的平埔族的族人 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6275.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6297.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
這就是我要請教主委的啦所以另立專法是我們現在的選項啦對不對那另立專法其實到時候我們會有很多很多的事情要討論喔不是你的專法一來大家就哇都照你的喔我相信每個人意見都不一樣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6298.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6324.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
所以你在這個另立專法你不能期限到的時候你才來這個可能要有很多的社會共識很多什麼喔因為另立專法就會有它的權利跟義務跟它很多的東西會發生了然後跟既有的原住民族不管基本法或什麼的很多的法令也可能會有衝突的地方喔所以像這個我不知道專法的進度到哪了開始了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6327.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6348.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我們現在就是說因為現在是先趕快讓他們取得這個身份那之後我們馬上就會在年底之後年底之前我們就開始現在已經在跟我們的平埔族群的一些專家寫著我們先跟他們來做情誼就希望未來我們有一些什麼樣的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6350.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6372.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
還有我們也會做一些社會狀況的調查不是啦主委我剛請教你的意思說你要另立專法我不反對嘛你們開始啟動立法了沒因為這個很複雜喔你不要以為好像有幾年的時間喔很多問題基本的觀念可能沒有辦法解決喔你這個法令的名稱到底要叫什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6373.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6389.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
要叫積分法 還是什麼法其實這個可能大家就會吵了喔對不對 因為這個都相關關係了很多的權力義務欸我是提醒主委說這一個是你原民會成立以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6390.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6411.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
第一次很大的一個變革很大的不一樣然後你要負任人數又那麼多還有相關法令的這個是非常複雜的如果你不及早因應我很擔心到時候會一團亂那一團亂的情況之下本來一個美意又變成了大家爭吵的一個焦點所以我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6412.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6436.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
你們應該要成立一個小組然後甚至跨部會因為這也牽扯到其他部會的事情不是只有你們園民會喔對不對現在就要開始密集開會討論開始炒你了開始做了啦不然你一定會來不及啦是好好好好謝謝謝謝謝謝張宏杜召委的諮詢下一位我們請黃婕委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6448.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6450.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好謝謝主席我們請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6458.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6481.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
好 曾主委好首先跟您請教一下這個我們高雄原博館的進度因為這個是對於整個台灣來說是非常重大的一個國家級的原住民族博物館那這個進度我之前有跟您詢問過非常多次了從去年到現在可是看起來進度是非常延宕的包括說原本其實早在一開始啊是2025年就說要開幕後來呢延到了2027又後來又延到2032年 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6487.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6509.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那其實去年5月包括當時的陳建仁院長那包括我們幾位高雄的委員包括一些原住民族的委員我們一起到了該地去視察那當下其實那時候陳建仁院長是直接現場核定了第一期的工程58億可是到現在沒有任何的動工跡象那就我所知 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6510.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6539.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
中間的一些耽擱是因為去年8月的考試院的人事權因為被藍白杯葛嘛所以到去年下半年考試院的空窗導致於我們的籌備處的人事到今年1月才核定到4月才有辦法進駐以上是不是好謝謝委員的關心我們這個國立原住民族博物館的這個籌備處在今年的4月已經成立了籌備處已經成立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6540.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6566.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那我們也會有一個驗警管在我們這個月就會公告然後下半年就開始施工施工大概在116年我們就會呈現下半年也就是兩個月後就會開始動工是這樣子嗎對 動工然後在116年初的時候這個整個驗警管就會蓋好大概是1.5公頃也就是兩年 一年半你們就會蓋好驗警管對 驗警管就會蓋好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6569.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6588.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
整個的這個那邊的這個整個戶地是14公頃那土地上我們已經處理了就說這個謝謝高雄市政府的協助那也都移撥給我們會裡面那還有一個比較大一點的就是10公頃的那個自來水的用地應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6590.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6611.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
現在是還沒有但是現在已經作業到後面了應該很快這個如果如果能夠一波的話就整個土地就算完整了所以我們陸陸續續都有他掌握他的進度好那這就是我要在這邊再次跟我們主委來拜託啊因為大家一直想說去年五月就合訂了到現在也一整年了為什麼大家看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6612.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6635.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
整個14公頃還是雜草叢生然後毫無任何動工跟任何進度的跡象地方當然很擔心那當然我也知道中間經過各式各樣包括人事的杯葛包括各式各樣可能一些預算上面的問題等等所以讓大家覺得好像沒有進度但事實上我再複述確認一次兩個月後院警館就會開始動工然後一年半之後我們院警館就會蓋好對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6640.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6650.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
好那這個主委要拜託在這邊承諾那我也希望這個真的要如時如期的來進行那再來我也跟您請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6653.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6667.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這個也是剛剛其實有提到因為其實昨天早上不知道我們主委有沒有看到我們有一些平埔族的朋友他們有開了記者會那就我所知因為我知道這個是根據憲判嘛今年10月28之前一定要立法這個是有實現的問題可是目前看起來其實包括我們現在的法定原住民包括山原平原然後包括這些還沒有被納入的平埔族 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6680.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6705.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
之間是有一些紛爭然後是有非常多意見還沒有辦法達到共識的我不知道主委在這中間有沒有去找各族群已經協調過或者是大家有沒有初步的共識了目前看起來如果連這個基本的共識都沒有很顯然上禮拜我們行政院院版送出的這個版本平埔族不滿意我們法定原住民也不滿意大家都不滿意那這個版本到時候要怎麼討論你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6709.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6734.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我跟委員報告我們這個版本要出來之前我們就有辦過至少九場的這個公聽會說明會那這九場包括對現在原來有的山地影住民跟平地影住民我們也辦了至少辦了四場那還有五場就是對我們平埔族群也來辦類似的這個座談類似的這個公聽會也有跟他們做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6735.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6759.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
所以才會有這個研究民主的這個生活法來那我想這其中當然有很多很多 這沒有那麼簡單啦三地研究民主就是一個非常複雜的議題非常複雜的也需要尊重各族群所以我才覺得你們要把握時間啊距離立法的期限快到了啊對 我們仍然要跟我們特別是平埔的這個研究民主的朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6760.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6784.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
包括他們的專家寫者還有一些他們的地方上的一些幹部我們仍然要持我們一直在持續的做溝通那我們會裡面也有成立這樣的一個工作小組希望未來也能夠跨部會來來做做協調這個我想好那我就問一個基本的問題就好了因為我知道說其實目前內政部的歷史資料來看這個評普組可能算一算可能有98萬人是 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6786.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6812.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
是嗎 是好 那當然我認為這個平普族的正名運動是必要的只是說現在目前草案裡面23條就規定說本法實行後三年內必須完成制度或修正相關政治參與跟社會福利的制度設計那請問這個到時候要怎麼做這個就是大家最關心的政治參與跟社會福利到時候如果照你們的版本下去要怎麼修啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6814.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6825.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這個社會福利我們還是要跟他們要做溝通確定他們這個整個身分都出來的時候我們會跟他們做溝通那政治參與因為很多的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6827.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6848.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
三眼、平眼他們很擔心就是說這個平埔原住民進來以後對政治參議是不是有什麼改變其實是沒有啦就立法委員要改變這個選舉的話是要修憲的沒那麼容易跟這個不一樣所以包括各式各樣明帶或是地方的這種選舉的席次不會因此而影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6850.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6866.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
還有如果說未來地方政府也就是縣市議員的選舉即便是有這個平埔原住民他也是外加他不會衝擊現在的現在的3D原住民跟平埔原住民的選舉這個部分當然還是很多人不知道那當然我們還是要不停的來做這個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6867.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6884.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
好謝謝這個真的要拜託因為然後還有包括社福的制度也很多人擔心說包括我剛剛說了嘛這個平埔族如果加入之後有98萬人可能擁有這個資格那這些人的社會福利要怎麼照顧怎麼規劃這個都非常重要好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6886.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6907.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
好 這個要拜託我們再加強溝通好 最後一點時間我來跟這個主委拜託一下因為其實五月初的時候有一位國民黨籍的前立委到中國參加七彩雲南相約台灣的活動然後在現場高掛兩岸一家心聯心的布條那這很明顯其實就是用文化交流的外殼內藏著文化統戰的事實嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6909.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6938.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那其實我們一直都知道說中共很容易把我們台灣的原住民的青年也好這種族群統戰的對象放在原住民族的身上這個其實都做過非常多的研究那甚至他們會用這種文化跟血脈來刻意的說我們都是少數民族我們都是炎黃子孫那我是不是可以在這邊拜託主委你們有沒有什麼對策然後可不可以說明原住民族是炎黃子孫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6941.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6963.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
對 這樣的一個案子我們都是我們是支持還有尊重兩岸的延居民族支持什麼 支持什麼就是說我們支持彼此尊重但是我們也嚴正的聲明台灣延居民族是屬於南島語系的這個族群那不是炎黃子孫啦是啊 歷史不容抹滅這個我們自己的族群的主體性怎麼可以這樣隨便被篡改歷史呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6965.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6980.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
所以在這個相關的這個互大陸交流的個案我們要嚴守我們自己的我們自己國家的法例那我們也不會就是說遭受對方的這個利用我們都有這樣的一個聲明 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6981.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7006.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
所以這個就是要拜託主委要知道說現在中共很明顯對於台灣很喜歡做的就是族群統戰嘛尤其是針對台灣的原住民族他們是用這近20年來都是用各式各樣的手法在籠絡也好然後辦這種文化交流但實質一直不斷的洗腦灌輸你我們都是什麼中國少數民族都用這種篡改歷史的方式在抹滅我們的族群主體性不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7007.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7017.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
這個就是我們主委希望你自己要有意識我們整個園民會也要有這樣的意識去努力的保存我們自己的主體性好嗎好好 謝謝主委謝謝謝謝下一位我們請蘇曉慧委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7034.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7037.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
好謝謝主席我們請主委曾主委曾主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7045.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7059.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
主委今天又是園民會的業務報告每次看到園民會的業務報告就覺得其實園民會真的很辛苦啦你看看這樣子一本小小的報告裡面包山包海從憲法層次的議題到內政到教育到衛福到衛政到經濟到環境文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7065.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7076.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
還要有外交呢這真的是原民會包山包海真的很辛苦啦應該說有原住民的地方就要有原民會這個同意嗎也覺得很辛苦啦對不對你不敢講 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7080.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7099.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
好啦但是我知道說資源有限量能也有限但是就是在這樣的狀況下我以為其實原民會最重要的工作其實是提升整個政府其他部會對原住民族的文化敏感度 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7100.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7119.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
對原住民族的認識族群的敏感度其實會比小小的原民會自己在這邊拼命努力做但是其他所有的部會對於原民議題沒有概念我覺得你要反向思考原民會其實最大的工作就是讓政府的其他部會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7121.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7144.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這個文化的敏感度同時可以協調其他各部會來合作處理原住民的議題主委你同不同意這個看法同意因為這樣的話你們是負責看別人怎麼做啊對不對自己其實可以降低你的業務量壓力但同時去讓其他部會在做事情的時候不要把預算亂花嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7146.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7168.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
好 那我今天就用教育的這個題目來跟你討論你既然同意剛剛的說法 我就看原民會有沒有做到來 主委 我們的這個原住民族教育法裡面讓我們創設了兩個這個教育的體系嘛 制度一個是原住民族實驗教育學校一個是原住民重點學校主委請問這兩個制度有什麼差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7169.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7193.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
追尋法規目的都可以 簡答就好 好不好 簡答問題在後面 簡答就好了原住民中學校就是在原住民中學校裡面另外在做實驗教育的學校蛤 你確定要這樣回答嗎我想應該不是這樣啦好 那我這樣問好了 你覺得這個發動權在哪裡這兩個制度的話在地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7194.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7218.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
原住民重點學校是依據原住民教育法所規定他學生比例達到一定的比例就是原住民重點學校所以這個是對的沒有錯原住民重點學校是地方政府嘛他的只要原住民在這個原住民的地區裡面他的人數學生到達學校比例的一定數字或者是比例其實就是重點學校嘛對不對那實驗教育學校咧所以教訓室如果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7219.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7245.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
這個學校他願意來從事原住民實驗教育的話所以發的發動權是誰是學校嘛所以不是地方政府所以從發動權就有極大的差別了好來那我問你重點學校那重點學校的話既然他是因為有一個硬性的標準在這裡對不對是學校的人數那他什麼時候會成為重點學校什麼時候不成為重點學校他的資源師資人力等等會有差別嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7247.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7271.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
如果是依照原住民教育法官原住民中等學校的師資要優先由原住民來擔任對 沒有錯嘛這些事情整個原住民中等學校主管機關是誰教育部你們有跟他討論過嗎其實過去很多人都有觀察問題就是原住民學校的原住民師資的比例的問題問題在哪裡問題就是地方政府在禁用原住民的師資上一直沒有辦法去符合這個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7272.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7289.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我覺得村長你這樣打不是重點啦重點來我給你看我們在地方選區我自己在新北市嘛我們新北市是這個地方其實有最多的都市原住民所以很明顯你看我109年到111學年度我的國小跟國中高中 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7290.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7304.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
對不對 四重點學校是這一排好 你再看112年度到114年度它的重點學校一樣嗎然後我們就比大同國小就好了它這三年因為它有超過100它就是重點學校接下來它99人它就不是重點學校了所以它的師資就要重新調整啊對啊 然後它能夠補助的計畫也不一樣啊欸 怎麼會差一個人 差一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7313.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7322.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那整個狀況就不一樣我的丹鳳國小也是啊一下子是重點學校一下不是重點學校一下又是重點學校了那我到底是不是要禁用這個原住民級的教師 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7324.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7344.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這不是才是問題所在嗎他的對原住民孩子的教育的延續性沒有一貫性嘛對不對好那我再跟你說這個這個師資的部分好了剛剛我有聽到原民會這邊在講嘛說你們對足語老師的這個認證方式這個要求的方式本來有足語的要求嘛對不對啊現在現在呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7347.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7361.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
過去是要高級現在我們調那個教育部因為資資的不足我們把它跟教育部合作調整為中高級好那一般教師咧一般教師沒有所以我們新北市要來當原住民籍的一般老師的認證主任認證還是高級啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7363.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7391.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
對啊 是高級啊 要有這個高級啊有啊 我們這個老師申請的資格其實各縣市也是是不一樣的啊我們在透過 你看各縣市的教師申試檢章剛剛舉行完嘛各縣市大多是採分流制將原住民考生歸為一組你看像台東縣 只要你是原住民籍出市的總成績就可以加10%但是新北市呢 除了是要原住民籍之外還要通過原住民族語能力認證高級以上啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7392.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7401.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這是正式教師的正式對 我就是在跟你說一般教師正式教師啊那台東的跟新北的為什麼可以有這種差距因為這是各地方政府依照他們自己的正式的規定你的態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7402.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7412.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我的態度認為這個事還是要尊重地方政府你什麼東西都尊重地方政府我問你你的態度是什麼一般教師他必須不是去擔任主委教師他還是做一般教學課可是你剛剛說我們的重點學校裡面要有這個族群的老師啊要有族籍的老師那我現在就是我現在又是重點學校了結果我的老師還是招不到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7426.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7448.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
據說一般政治教師到學校去他不是單用主語教學工作他是做一般學校工作所以他的語言能力我們相對應該不需要到高級啦我的看法是這樣子可是對啊那我現在就是是啊我的教徵裡面我的教徵裡面就是新北市除了要原住民籍之外還要通過原住民主語的認證高級出示才可以加分啊那為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7448.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7455.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那這是因為他是地方政府他自己針對他教師的需求你看我們不是鬼打牆嗎這是繞圈圈啊所以我的意思沒有這個不是這樣你看我們不是在討論誰可以變成是老師我們現在在討論的是誰可以在成為老師的這個關卡得到原住民籍的加分嘛對不對我們是在討論加分政策那台東的話只要你是原住民身份我就加分新北市的話是除了原住民還要有主語認證嘛可是我們在應徵的是一般老師喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7478.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7483.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
對不對那只是你要求足以認證是可不可以成為加分的條件嘛所以我們在討論的是這個那但是因為牽扯到另外一個問題是如果是在這個重點原住民重點學校的時候他 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7494.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7508.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
成為重點學校他就要求要有族群的老師的時候那這種人很難找啊而且有時候我這三年是重點學校我就要老師啊明年我又不是重點學校了我可能就又不要了啊又要又不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7509.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7536.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
就難上加難嘛所以你要進入到新北市當這個有原住民籍身分老師你就少了比台東就少了一點這個加分的機會這也是實話啊那我問的就是你的態度是什麼我當然知道一尊重地方政府是一個大家都基本的態度啦但是你有沒有跟地方政府溝通就是另外一件事情啦對不對然後回到今天的前提我剛剛在說的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7537.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7555.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這些事情的主管機關對 都是教育部但你們有沒有就這種問題去跟教育部討論過嘛所以我的意思是說其實原住民的問題就像你寫的方方面面真的包山包海我們所有在社會上生活的問題因為我有原住民籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7555.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7576.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
就會通通都可以有另外一個管道解決或我會有另外的難處所以我們需要成立原民會嘛那我覺得原民會真的不需要把所有事情攬在自己身上你們其實可以思考另外一種方式是你真的是用你的族群觀點 族群意識去增加跟其他部會溝通的狀況這些問題 老師的問題 教育的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7580.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7592.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
其實在教育部啊 主管機關也是教育部啊但是教育部可能沒有你懂問題在哪裡所以你去跟他講 反正最後錢也他出 規定也他做你就是在旁邊看說 欸 我覺得這樣比較好喔這樣不是比較容易解決我們真正遇到的問題嗎不然我就跟你講剛剛的那個問題就好了我的學校 丹鳳國小 大同國小 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7604.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7620.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
因為有補助 今年可以開計畫案下一次 少一個學生變99人沒有補助了 這樣對嗎後年突然又說 又來了 又多一個學生了現在101個 又可以是重點學校了這樣不是很奇怪嗎所以今天在這裡 我想您的態度主委 講一下吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7631.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7646.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我想要謝謝委員的指教那我想我們會主動來跟新北市政府希望請他們就是說剛剛講的那個希望不要那麼硬的是99個100個這樣子我希望說以能夠照顧比較多的族人為原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7647.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7663.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那個其實是教育部啦我們已經討論過跟教育部討論過很多次規定了啦但是因為一個委員就跟教育部討論其實沒有辦法直接調整因為那一調整是全國都會調整那個涉及到資源施支各式各樣方面所以才說原民會 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7664.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7684.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
要有態度這就是我今天在跟你討論的問題嘛那我是很誠懇的建議啦大家也知道我對原住民是非常非常支持的狀態所以我是建議部會你們櫃會可以調整這個執行業務的思維多跟其他部會合作其實可以事半功倍啦謝謝好 謝謝謝謝 蘇強威委員下一位我們請李柏毅委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7700.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7703.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
請曾主委曾主委有請委員好主委預算之後第一次在這邊跟你做詢問謝謝那整個園民會在我們內政委員會預算的狀況算是不錯的喔整個內政委員會給予園民會很大很大的支持因為被刪的預算其實不多而且在去年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7731.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7755.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
包含去年度大家討論最多的建法補償增加的預算的部分到達了7億左右行政院現在也都跟園民會這邊也如期跟主計總署這邊都如期可以編出來了也如期可以發放了但是去年度還是有一些相關園民會的這些業務有被刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7757.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7776.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
業務被刪減的部分我講的是原住民民主委員、聘用委員改成無給職這一部分這一部分影響到多少委員目前為止執行的狀況我想要請教主委的是有沒有委員因為這樣辭職了 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7779.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7804.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
都我們都已經他們全部都辭職了全部都辭職全部都辭職有的已經是大概一半以上都有別的工作了要去必須要去找別的工作了嗎是所以沒有辦法在為原民做這些相關的這些原本他在宣導服務等等這些那這些業務怎麼辦這些業務就回一樣回歸到我們這個各個業務單位比如說所以你就是要叫公務員去做這些事情了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7805.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7830.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
對就是當然我們的公務人員就會所以是族人領袖或者是這些族人的相關他們過去習慣或者是過去大家遵從這些領袖他可能就沒有這些業務費用可以使用他就辭職了是16個都辭了嗎對非常遺憾那接下來原民會接下來還會再徵聘委員還是有其他的救濟方式嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7830.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7844.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我們也尊重大議員的決議希望就是說我們在這個因為少了這些人就少了很多的工作量就少很多那我們希望禁用就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7846.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7873.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
再禁用公務員 再多禁用公務員來承接這些工作我們也不一樣啊 這不一樣的訓練啊像我們民意代表我們選出來或者是當然不一定完全套用在民意代表身上啦跟經過國家考試的公務員他的訓練跟他主要的任務其實是完全不一樣的這大家都知道這沒有辦法取代的嘛那還是原民會這邊還是要去思考其他的救濟方式啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7875.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7889.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
他們因為這幾個委員他們是現在是沒有薪水了就是無極職了對啊就辭光了對但是就是有一些的這個評鑑或者是有一些的這個其中審查考核等等也不 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7891.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7916.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
縱然說是不會全部都還要用他們來去做我們還是需要他們來做一些考核評審等等的沒有錯這我了解只是說原本這些委員在做的這些業務不見了我覺得原民會還是要找一些救濟的方式來來補足原本的這些我們原本可以做的這些業務嘛那另外一個比較重要的議題就是在內政委員會今年度處理的節日跟紀念日的問題針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7918.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7938.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
原住民族的碎石祭可以給予三天假的問題在這邊我還是必須要既然這個已經通過了那我還是必須要從補救的角度來想當然我們支持說原住民族他在碎石祭的時候可以保有他的這些文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7938.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7953.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
原住民族必須要回去參加那三天這個就是社會討論但是也已經通過了但是事實上他在職場上即將會碰到的問題也就是說有些雇主們 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7954.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7977.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
他們會因為這樣第一個寧願繳罰金寧願繳貸金少禁用原住民族這個問題齁我們不要再罵雇主了他有他的算法但是我們還是要想怎麼樣來保護我們這些原住民族的這些就業的機會嗎第二個如果他真的在就業上遇到困難的話怎麼樣加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7979.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7996.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我們剛剛有講到原住民族的這些就業服務站就業服務員跟勞動部怎麼樣去協助這些我們族人的這些工作機會我覺得這是我們即將遇到的問題啦那我們這些就業服務員對這些相關的這些跟勞動部的這些聯繫的實際的狀況我覺得原民會要馬上來做這些盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8007.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8028.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
主委你可不可以我們會馬上就是這十個祭典還有要我們的就業服務員主動來協助其實我們的75個就業服務員 原住民的就業服務員會協助將來我們這些如果遇到這樣的狀況提供法律的諮詢你認為會遇到什麼狀況比如說像僱主有可能因為我那個原住民有三天我可能就不大禁用 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8029.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8057.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
但是未來我們會有相關的配套措施我們也會做一個盤點就是我們每年的原住民就業狀況調查當中會針對這些有沒有因為是禁用這個三列就不禁用原住民的這個我們會列入我們每年的調查那你有沒有這個相關的這些產業它其實它有繳交貸金的我建議你現在有資料嘛這一些就要開始控管了如果說明年度或今年度就開始發生這些繳交貸金的變多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8057.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8085.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那就是代表出問題了嘛那就要趕快來做這些社會的溝通剛剛召委也有講到看是胡蘿蔔還是棒子那我們也支持用棒子啊但是事實上這是立法之後才發生的問題啦所以原民會身為主管機關保護原住民相關的這些權益等等的齁我覺得原民會要加緊注意這些內容是我們會好謝謝主委一共齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8086.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8114.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
今年度的預算一共122億那比去年度增加大概12億其中7億是進法補償那裡面還有5億那裡面還有5億的部分到今天即將要解凍的內容裡面那包括比較大的項目的裡面有原住民族教育推展那有原住民族教育推展裡面的兩項就高達了快1億6的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8116.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8129.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那我希望原民會等一下還是可以盡力說服當初凍結預算的委員讓原民會相關的這些預算可以很順利的來推動那目前包含你的業務費現在被凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8134.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8163.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
一共被凍結超過五億還有這個族與教會一億一千萬那希望主委這一些相關的說法都可以趕快的獲得委員會的支持在這邊我先表達會對原民會的這些被凍結的預算支持趕快的來解凍但是我還是要表達對於南島民族論壇推動經費接近兩千萬全部被刪除切斷了台灣原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8163.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8189.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
跟台灣原住民族跟整個南島的這些互動我覺得這是非常可惜啦那還是希望原民會這邊跟整個南島語系原住民這邊還是保持密切的聯繫活動那必要的時候還是請院長來協助看我們有沒有辦法來繼續來跟其他這些南島語系的這些原住民國家這就是外交的部分來保持一定的互動是好要跟院長爭取會會會好謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8195.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8198.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
好 謝謝李博弈委員現在我們請高金素美委員質詢現在招委有請主委主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8208.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8231.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
主委在這邊很多的委員們都很關心就是紀念日我們原住民記憶放假三天的問題那在這裡我要特別感謝我們的召委當時本席有提這個放三天假然後讓立法院都已經三讀通過了所以本席今天原本要在原基法處理的稅時記憶放假日就可以不用再處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8232.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8251.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
但是呢我非常遺憾的就是我們在審法案的時候原民會一開始你們是支持的對吧主委在這裡我依然很記得你說你支持放假三天這是族人所期待的但是你知道嗎過了一陣子之後有一些執政黨委員紛紛的撤案尤其呢原住民的立法委員吳立華委員陳英委員也撤案了然後再一次在說明的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8261.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8264.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
原委會的立場一時之間就不一樣了然後你們說什麼你們說呢我們如果放三天假的話我們的原住民就會沒有工作了是這樣子的嗎 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8274.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8292.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我們用數據來說話 看一下99年的時候法規命令 當時放一天假是法規命令我們首次納入放假一天假當時也是很多人說我們會有沒有工作啊但是我們的失業率是從5.90%降到隔年的5.32%這根本就沒有影響就業的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8297.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8320.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以放假會沒有工作其實是執政黨你們的話術所以實際一放三天假是族人需要的今天再講清楚一點當時我們放一天假是用法規命令可是現在我們是法律規範可以放三天假老闆如果不遵守法規他要依據勞動基準法第79條要罰錢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8326.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8338.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
所以這不就是更加保障我們族人的權益了嗎那身為執政黨的這個圓明會也好或者是立委也好應該是要多多的像這些所謂的慣老闆來教育他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8341.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8361.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
原住民為什麼要放三天的假你們要做的是這件事情而不是在立法院測案然後站在冠老闆的這個角色上面然後跟他們說話然後不選擇跟主任站在一起我真的非常的遺憾耶主委你可以不用回答了但是呢我必須要講執政黨的立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8363.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8373.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
沒有在立法院投贊成的票我們在野黨的立法委員全力的支持所以現在以後你們要做的事就要教育這些慣老闆為什麼我們原住民要放三天假的重要性是哪裡第二點就是你們要趕快跟部落的族人說明因為族人會害怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8384.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8410.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
因為你們一直在講說放三天假我們老闆就不會用你們了 他們會害怕所以是有法律依據的對不對是必須放的對不對如果不放假會被罰錢對不對好 既然是有這樣子被保障那你們應該就要幫族人做一些法律程序上的一些鋪陳 對吧希望我能看到你們要怎麼做另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8411.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8434.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我們回到基金運用上面為了都會區的族人的居住權益我呢有要求綜合發展基金必須要納入社宅投資的項目請問主委你們的看法是什麼這個我跟委員報告有關這個我們這個興建這個社會住宅他基本上還是要地方政府來 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8438.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8451.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
統籌這個業務統籌這個業務我同意那至於就是說這個是內政部來協助我也同意對但是您知道嗎主委你的立場是什麼就簡單講一下今天時間有限是你的立場支不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8454.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8465.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我們來看一下行政院其實在解凍報告裡面也說投資社會住宅是符合規定的第二個基金還有45億未來還會適時的由公務預算來撥補協儲行政院的說法他說我們的法規是容許並且基金還有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8477.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8504.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這是都是從正面的方向去吧可是主委你知道嗎 園民會呢到114年1月你們基金可動用的只剩下2.1億了對吧 主委好 請問一下到底我們行政院說我們還有45億園民會說只剩2.1億到底我們的基金還有多少錢啊靜止44.6億可動用的資金可以動用的資金大概是11.6億 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8506.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8526.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
可以動用的啦可以現在等於是現金嘛 對不對可以動的是11億14億點6億好 請問一下如果基金沒有錢的話我們的微小貸款啊 修上房屋啦這些貸款就會全面停擺了對不對那請問這11億現在還可以做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8530.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8546.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
都動得了嗎有在做 跟委員報告截至三月底為止的話那今年度基金的預算在貸款款是6.8億那已經貸放了312件那那個貸放的資金那這樣子還剩多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8548.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8571.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
就是剛剛跟委員報告截至4月底為止等於說可動用資金還是有11.6億好所以我們可以看到綜合發展基金只剩下11.6億已經沒有都快沒有錢了對不對所以呢我有提案要修正原基法綜合發展基金的總額不可以低於新台幣100億元我是來拯救我們的綜合發展基金主委你支持嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8572.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8588.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
支持你支持嗎?支持好謝謝記得你今天說的話喔不要到時候我們在這邊又放的時候你們又不有意見喔來另外我要問族人最關心的問題了就是九月份依法我們的族人可以領得到一公頃六萬塊的進法補償嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8593.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8619.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
對可以嗎可以你知道9月份就要放了喔對9月以後就請問一下你知不知道行政院已經針對總預算提出釋憲囉是是吧齁如果再提暫時處分所謂的追加預算就沒有辦法進行囉主委你知道這個嚴重性吧是好如果沒有追加預算的話我們基金也剩下11億根本不夠請問族人的補償金要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8623.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8641.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
說清楚現在主任都在聽這個部分的話就是說除了晚會動用基金本身的預算跟調度相關的資源另外等於說行政院那邊可能晚含也會適時可以協助行政院要怎麼協助他追加預算不能夠用啊那要用哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8644.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8667.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
而且你剛剛說你的那個綜合發展基金只剩下11億啊然後如果微銷貸款什麼都交在一起的話你會影響到綜合發展基金應該要用的業務而且錢也不夠啊跟委員報告那個基金因為今年度的預算那個基金預算應該是分次等於說撥入的所以後面還會有那個分配款進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8669.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8692.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
分配款會多少所以你的意思說基金不夠的在公務預算不夠的現在還是要用綜合發展基金來撥補囉的意思嗎那主委你覺得這是長期應該要做的事情嗎這個過去都是用這樣的方式但是我想未來應該是直接在預算裡面在公務預算嘛對不對所以這一次行政院公務預算給你們多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8693.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8698.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
28億28.6億根本就不是我們一公頃6萬塊所以它是減半所以我們只剩下多少還有多少是沒有在公務預算裡面可以撥補的 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8711.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8735.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
大概是23億左右好現在終於大家都清楚知道了行政院並沒有把義工請6萬塊的錢通通在公務預算裡面撥足另外不夠的部分他還是要違法由綜合發展基金裡面來做這是不對的卓偉你剛剛也一直說了希望以後行政院不要再用這種方式來 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8738.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8742.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
來給依法通過的禁法補償六萬塊所以我們可不可以這樣說 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8744.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8769.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
明年的預算我們希望在公務預算裏面補足一公頃六萬塊真正的淨法補償金你們有必要努力會 我們會努力會努力用這個基金來支應淨法補償它並沒有違法因為以前也都是這樣做啦那當然我們希望未來直接從公務預算那是比較恰當啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8770.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8786.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那既然沒有違法為什麼這次要在公務預算裡面編然後不編足以前也是這樣以前也是這樣以前沒有啊以前是3萬塊啊是通通在公務預算然後交到綜合發展基金以前是公務基金都有啊對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8787.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8803.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
好了主委我給你一個任務希望你趕快在明年的預算下一次的預算要在公務基金裏面補足可以嗎有啊加油好謝謝要公務預算喔是多少錢一公頃六萬塊的話一公頃六萬多少錢嘛52億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8805.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8811.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
應該是52.15所以我們在下次的公務預算就會看到52.15億是完全放在公務預算所以今年九月份我們的不足的部分 原民會想辦法如果我們的行政院不給你們你們會從你們自己預算裡面去挪的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8831.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8838.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那會怎麼樣來講清楚一下我們還是要跟行政院爭取行政院怎麼給你從什麼預備金嗎我剛剛就說了追加預算如果他騎市線然後暫時處分那追加預算是不能夠用的啊那要從哪裡我們會積極爭取可能他也許會從預備金來給我們也有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8857.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8884.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
不要講可能 九月到現在已經五月底了你知道你的主計長說什麼嗎現在他已經不認追加預算了耶鄭天才委員在經濟委員會裡面財政委員會裡面質詢他的時候他已經不認行政院長簽的那個追加預算了已經不提這個了主委您知道嗎 園民會已經被行政院穿小鞋了好吧 因為我的時間要到了 最後我要問你的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8885.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8891.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
部落工法人事辦的計畫請問一下最終的目標是什麼要完成的目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8892.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8914.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
主要就是讓我們的部落齁能夠部落自主的來決定自己的事情所以是走向自治嘛對不對那為什麼一步到位走向自治然後呢你要弄這個示範計畫然後這個示範這個所謂的這個部落公法示範計畫其實就我了解長期以來原住民的社會還有鄉鎮市長是反對這個計畫的所以呢你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8918.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8940.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
不好好跟主任溝通你反而這一意孤行的黑箱事辦現在呢五個部落可以做事辦我們真的覺得很奇怪740個部落為什麼就這五個然後一年可以拿到一百萬然後六十萬是人事行政費到底是要幹嘛然後你要讓他們自己跟這些部落的原住民的鄉鎮市鄉民代表部落裡面產生一些衝突嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8946.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8975.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我跟委員報告之所以挑這五個部落我就擠一個一齡部落來講好了那這個那為什麼不要公開甄選為什麼只有五個為什麼不要740個部落都一起來示範我想我們先做這五個然後在這五個部落當中我想為什麼挑他們因為我覺得他們的這個核心的幹部他們很容易有一個共識不是啦 你共識完畢未來你示範你要讓這些人去做什麼事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8976.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8983.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
他可以拿到一百萬啊對不對那一百萬他要做什麼他要交什麼報告他要在這個鄉裡面取得未來這個部落自治的共識嗎各位報告如果沒有怎麼辦請問諸位你說這五個部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8991.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9018.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
對啊如果沒有取得共識沒有好好的做你還會繼續辦下去嗎還是只有今年或明年因為明年就要選舉了大家都知道你會不會因為這樣子然後挑一個會選舉的部落然後這些人其實是在幫某些人在做一些選舉的工具其實不會好不會那請你要告訴我這五個部落他以後我們花了五百萬嘛對不對五個部落一個部落一百萬嘛因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9021.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9034.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我們提出了 他們提出計畫 我們也要看不是啦 現在已經是五個部落了嘛 五百萬嘛那未來他的目的是什麼 最終的目標是什麼你要不要定一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9036.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9042.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
要不要定一下最終的目標是希望這個部落可以我必須要講一下我們必須要一套規則是公平參與這才是制度而不是維民會你想怎樣就怎樣你如果沒有一個非常好的制度我們是部落是沒有辦法信任你們的你反而會產生很多的對立面主委我是提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9059.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9069.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
最後最後今天我們要談的是解凍案如果我們看不到所謂的制度健全我想有非常多我在這邊執意要凍結的預算我一定會凍結那原文會我要提一下請你們趕快找一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9076.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9105.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
你們到現在仍然拒絕提出合理的薪資結構表 主委 要求他在我審他們要解不解凍的預算之前所謂的合理的薪資結構表再拿不出來的話我今天依然是要凍結他們預算我會持續來監督嚴格的要求改善我認為這不僅僅是政策的問題而且是對我們的族人最基本的公平的交代 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9106.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9127.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
最後原住民原財我們流動率非常高在總預算的時候行政院院長有交代一個月之內要給我一個檢討報告請問什麼時候給我委員我們已經應該我們的報告都已經都已經提出去了5月15就送出去囉請問一下助理我們有收到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9132.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9158.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我沒有收到喔 主委好 沒有收到我們馬上就可以 有人在這裡我沒有收到因為提案的人是我 你們不給我 真的很奇怪有啊 有寄到辦公室喔 午夜十五寄到辦公室在這裡好 待會我們會解凍你們預算 我們一一還是要審查謝謝這是我們立法委員應該做的工作謝謝好 謝謝 高金素美委員的諮詢報告委員會 我們在徐益臻委員諮詢完之後休息五分鐘現在請徐益臻委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9163.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9191.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
謝謝主席 我們請曾主委曾主委有請委員好主委好 賴清德總統在去年1月競選總統的時候有說過當選總統後要將原住民落實自治推動主語的富裕 重視原民健康權栽培原民人才跟恢復部落的生活機能請問主委 您擔任原民會的主委已經一年了賴總統所說的落實原住民族的自治實施了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9192.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9204.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
各位委員報告原住民的自治不是一次就到位所以我們希望我們先事辦公法人讓我們的部落先學習怎麼樣來自己決定自己部落的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9205.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9231.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以去年我有諮詢過您這樣子一個您剛上任的時候但是目前不要說立法啦連草案都還沒有完成那當然原住民現在目前的自治法原是根據地方制度法所制定的那直轄市的原住民的區長原本是沒有辦法與選舉產生那是在馬英九總統執政時期提出的行政院的版本修法賦予直轄市的原住民主有自治權 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9232.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9253.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那但是跟原住民族的自治法的立法的差異還是有很大那根據你們剛剛的業務報告針對原住民族自治法的草案的推動進度只寫了會保障原住民族自治權研擬原住民族自治法草案並徵詢各界意見將循法製作業程序辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9253.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9282.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
你用了44個字 含標點符號落實原住民自治是賴清德總統的政見之一那請問何時可以提出草案根委員報告 其實我們原住民自治法草案是已經有一個新的版本但是我們接下來就是要去爭取族人的意見爭取族人 那去年一年都沒有爭取族人的意見嗎去年我們是先研擬草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9282.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9308.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那草案延領了一年現在出來了現在要徵詢主任的意見是這樣嗎那我們預計大概要徵詢多久我們大概會排定因為我們大概如果說預算解凍之後我們才有經費去辦這個意見徵詢預算解凍啊不是等一下就會解凍了嗎那我們大概需要大概需要半年的時間半年的時間好那半年的時間你們徵詢完之後理論上是原住民的草案就是半年後應該就可以提出了是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9310.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9334.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
因為我想針對這個部分因為民長已經執政9年了但是到現在為止都還沒有提出過草案供立法院審查所以要請原民會要多多加油那另外我想請教你就是落實原住民族基本法第二條第一項所揭示的部落自治精神在114年4月7號有啟動剛剛你有提到部落公法人的事辦計畫那並責定了台東縣的都攔部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9338.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9354.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
花蓮縣的薩古爾部落、屏東縣的義陵部落、屏東縣的大武部落跟南投縣的旺鄉部落這五個部落作為示範區那主委我查了一下這五個部落的人口數就是我現在你可以看到的表上的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9355.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9382.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那另外呢我還查了像包括台東縣的馬老部落有1887人台東縣的大鳥部落有1165人台東縣的金輪部落有1255人花蓮縣的泰巴索部落有2463人花蓮縣的馬太安部落有2469人等等這些都比你挑的五個這個部落示範區還要多人那請問為什麼你挑這五個部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9384.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9411.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我跟委員報告我們這幾個部落就說是有幾個是山地原住民鄉的部落他本來部落的這個大概他的人口數也就是500到400人左右是這樣只有那個杜蘭部落他是平地原住民鄉還有這個沙古爾部落所以他的人數會比較多一點所以你本來就是責定只能500人所有的部落嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9412.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9431.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
不是因為我們認為這幾個部落他的範圍固定還有他的人口數沒有那麼多然後他的部落這些不管是村長也好代表也好議員也好還有地方上的社區理事我們都觀察過他們的互動都很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9432.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9448.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
跟你的互動比較好還是跟一般人的互動比較好跟族人的互動比較好其實其他人互動都不好沒有誤會了齁這裡面沒有一個是我的部落也沒有一個是我的鄉那其他的人的互動部落都不好喔你的意思是這樣嗎跟部落的互動都不好不是說其他都不好我們認為 那請問一下那蘭嶼呢蘭嶼的島族部落咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9452.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9469.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我覺得他更適合你講的這樣就是他就是一個完整的部落更固定那當然因為蘭嶼有更多的這個考量那我們想就是說這個總是第一波我們先做讓我們先做做看那請問你有沒有徵詢其他部落的意見還有怎麼選定這幾個是由我們園民會自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9474.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9499.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
決定要選這五個嗎這幾個部落是我們會裡面討論討論的結果希望我們會裡面不管是副主委也好還有所以就是由上而下沒有徵詢其他部落嗎我也徵詢他們的意見然後我們有下去跟部落先做溝通哪個部落 你跟哪個部落做溝通比如說這個大五 義理你跟這五個部落溝通當然好我只是你跟其他的部落有沒有溝通也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9500.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9505.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
不是說他願意我們就一定要跟他走因為你這樣子可以比如說示範8個月給100萬的補助那其他的這5個示範部落在8個月的時間可以領到這100萬那未來如果有相關的競爭的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9517.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9535.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
因為他們這五個是示範區所以他們可能就可以優先有這樣子的一個機會可以直接跟中央爭取更多的權益那其他的部落就輸在起跑點了可以說是連這個報名表都拿不到那這個部分的話事實上看起來就是制度性的圖利還有排擠性的分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9536.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9554.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我跟委員報告像其他的部落不在這五個部落裡面有的時候他們爭取的機會都遠遠超過剛剛所講的機會那誰哪一個部落你可以舉例一下嗎就是說我們這個事辦計畫這五個部落他們所爭取的機會主委我想請教一下現在有沒有補救的辦法否則的話我剛剛講了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9558.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9573.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
其他的部落也想要爭取成為這個示範區可是呢是由你們由上而下決定這五個部落那其他的部落如果也想成為示範區有沒有什麼補救的辦法難道要這樣一直讓這種不公平一直持續下去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9574.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9598.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
跟委員報告是不是讓我們這五個部落因為現在已經五月底了到年底只剩下大概半年多一點時間那你四月才開始的也不過才開始一個月那你告訴我說到年底你才開始一個月如果錯了就要改啊不是用這種方式啊或者是說要不然你要不要再多幾個部落來去做示範呢我覺得這也是一種方式啊明年我們就希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9599.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9612.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
能夠有更多的部落因為不要讓大家覺得這種是制度性的圖利圖利這幾個部落都是由原民會來決定由誰來做我覺得不要讓外界有這樣的感想啦那另外針對這個台東太馬里大武達人等地設置33支陸域風力發電機還有海岸線成功鎮到長濱設置25組的陸域型風力發電 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9621.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9637.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
然後台東從南到北就有58支風力發電機所以地方非常強烈的募買已經組成了長濱反風電自救會那請問主委知道東部的風電開發案嗎開發商有沒有依照原住民族基本法第21條的規定向部落諮詢並取得同意或參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9644.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9668.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
這個資商同意的正式的送案啦所以你的意思是說目前沒有經過你們的諮商跟徵詢是嗎還沒有正式送案喔就我所知道那這個風機的環評預備會議在台東開過一次會議請問園民會有派人參加嗎那有沒有通知族人到這個出席區一起發表意見呢環評沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9670.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9687.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
沒有環評預備都沒有那也就是說在這過程中都不必去問部落不必去了解這個我們族人的意見都沒有這只是初步的規劃而已那所以等到他都規劃好告訴你要設了那你原民會才說喔那對不起我們都還沒有參與因為還沒成案 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9690.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9718.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
所以主委 我想原住民 我想原民會你們應該是要捍衛原住民的權益啊所以你們要勇敢的表達立場你應該在行政院會的時候向經濟部抗議啊不可以讓原民 這個在攸關原民的權益所以你們應該要積極的參與而不是用這種方式說沒有沒有 到最後設立之後然後再來說我們不曉得已經設立了因為不是我的主管機關所以麻煩原民會要拿出你們的魄力來捍衛我們原住民的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9721.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9723.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
好 謝謝謝謝許一貞委員現在我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10133.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10144.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
好 請各位關於委員會座報告委員會我們繼續開會然後我們中午不會休息跟委員會做一個報告現在我們繼續詢答 下一位我們請徐欣穎委員質詢好 謝謝主席 本席請曾主委曾主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10168.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10192.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
主委好 本席想請教我們這個台灣有少子化的問題請問原住民有沒有少子化問題有沒有統計也有啦 也有少子化的問題有嘛 對那有少子化我們全國上下大家都有一個共識既然生的少我們就要好好的給他最好的教育人這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10194.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10219.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
下一代已经人数不够了每一位我们都要想办法让他潜能发挥给他受最好的教育本席在这里今天要为一群长期被制度边缘化的年轻人来发声他们长期被制度冷漠的对待我要说的是我们原住民大专院校的学生 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10220.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10242.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那我們看到教育部的統計數字全台灣大專原住民學生在112年大概有2.5萬人那但是當年度就中途離開學校的比例有多少主委您知道嗎就是中途離開的學生對2點幾吧2點幾2點幾%嗎你確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10250.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10256.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我跟主委報告112年原住民學生有2.5萬人休學的就有3254人佔了13%退學的有3401人又佔了13%這兩個加起來已經超過四分之一了 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10273.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10300.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
所以我們在這裡要先問的是主委你知道原因是什麼嗎您剛剛竟然講2%距離差別太大了吧是你所知道數字的10倍您知道什麼原因嗎大概是經濟因素經濟的因素跟家庭的因素您竟然知道經濟的因素跟家庭的因素那你們有想要協助他們嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10301.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10320.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
你們有做出任何的關心任何的協助去減少這種情況嗎我要說的是我們不能只看報道率不看完成率這樣的情況是教育公平的假象你們這樣做半套嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10322.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10347.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我們每一年都有編這個兩億的獎助獎助寫進來幫忙我們大專寫生但是因為可能是實在是因為是家庭的因素他沒有辦法所以你們有編兩億那結果我們這個中途離開學校不管是休學退學的佔了26%那你有沒有要想辦法解決改善這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10350.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10368.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
有 我們會責成教文署跟教育部陣營我們是不是 那本席想請教可不可以建立跨部會機制因為我想 除了原民會你們還要跟教育部整個來聯合來做這種聯防機制來實施這種休學或退學的預警制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10369.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10388.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
可不可以今天本席質詢之後你們朝這個方向來盡力來協助年輕人他是我們國家未來的棟樑好好的栽培啊那接著本席要追問要繼續追問其實除了經濟家庭的因素之外你們還有沒有發現有什麼其他的因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10394.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10420.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
造成這些學生他為什麼要休學為什麼要退學除了經濟家庭因素一定還有次要的因素可能還有一點就是他的興趣還有他學習的成績的問題他學習的成績如果他一直沒有成就感或怎麼樣他就會先離開那你有沒有聽過原民專班這件事有啊那你知道原民專班現在有什麼問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10422.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10445.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
因为你讲到学习兴趣嘛那你他为什么不能支撑他念完大学四年主委你那么优秀你们的副主委还有我们的高金委员我们郑天才委员卢宪一委员都这么优秀我们希望有更多更优秀的受到很好的教育他可以适性的发展他可以发挥他的所长他在学校期间碰到了什么困难学习 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10448.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10473.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
原民專班的問題你們知道嗎應該是碰到了學習的困難那為什麼會有學習的困難原民專班你們有關心嗎因為這是為原民的學生設置的專班那現在原民專班有什麼問題你們知道嗎好 那是不是我們前處長這位是阿文你好 我是教育文化處處長教育文化處陳處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10476.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10495.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
是 謝謝委員的指教 我想 原民專班 我們原民會每年都有固定的補助來協助他們開辦相關的好 你都補助 你現在就告訴我有錢有錢 但是你知道他發生了什麼問題 有什麼不足 還有什麼你們要加強協助我們這些年輕學子的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10496.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10522.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我想在那個師資的充實上學校可能還要再繼續加油對很好師資不足資源分配不均所以這一塊主委我們陳處長講了我們是不是未來可以積極的來改善可以會我們應該要有年度原民專班的評鑑機制嘛那納入學生支持成效與後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10523.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10539.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
追蹤的一個機制你們要有這樣的一個數據或者是要這樣去了解啊是不是可以喔還有我還要再繼續追問除了原民專班問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10541.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10560.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我不知道你們有沒有發現在學校還有一些他們這個適應不良甚至就是他們感受到在校園裡不友善的對待這個你們有沒有委託相關學者來做研究 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10562.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10582.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
這個其實是我們長期一直在關心學生在學校受到的歧視的問題那我們在跟教育部合作在所有的大專校園都是有原住民學生資源中心透過資源中心來對學校的原住民孩子做關懷資源中心如果他沒跟你反映你資源中心有主動做任何的調查有任何的數據支撐嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10584.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10601.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我們每年都會去跟大部分的我們每年跟研資中心都有定期的會議在做他們業務的的訪試然後通過這個訪試來瞭解各個中心對學生的關懷跟歧視的懸導這方面本席有看到啦有一些學者有一直 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10602.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10630.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
在做很多的研究有75%达到四分之三的我们原住民的同学在学校感受到不友善的对待那这个不友善对待有部分可能是同学之间然后有将近16%是来自于教职员所以我们希望这一块不会是压垮我们原住民学生的最后一根稻草 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10631.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10657.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
所以這個部分也要來加強改進可以嗎可以我們希望下個會期在做業務報告的時候我們希望看到你們具體的一些掌握還有成效那最後我本期再用一點點的時間就是在你們的業務報告書面報告裡面有提到行政院原住民族基本法推動會在我們卓榮泰院長主持之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10659.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10683.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這個持續的要為了精進原住民的健康權社福權等等的保障那要來逐步縮減社會原住民族與社會各項的指標差距主委你知道這件事吧因為你應該在現場吧開會的時候請問有沒有盤點哪些指標落後有沒有有沒有盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10686.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10707.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
跟委員報告一下 那我們相關所有設計的人都有一些差距 比如說像我們的平均移民室差OK 所以有盤點 所有的差距 那請問有沒有改善方案以及績效的期限你們有沒有設定 有 我們都跟跨部會合作 那跟衛福部合作那就跟薪資有關係 有沒有 這個 有 那會後提供給本席可以嗎 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10707.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10736.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那最后最后这个原住民自治有这个部落公法人的制度这个在十年前105年就已经办理这个法规草案的预告各方面现在十年后你们才要出办找了几个部落来出办造成其实很多原民团体都起来抗议这个大家在问是不是原住民自治最大的障碍就是原民会 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10737.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10747.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
所以請問你們現在試辦預計什麼時候要有成果以及真正開始落實會不會又要再十年後最後回答本席這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10749.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10769.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
不會 不會十年後啦那你們預計事辦到什麼時候成效然後預計什麼時候要來實施有沒有期程今年只是一個這五個部落的事辦那明年我們會擴大更多的事辦那本席的問題是那你有沒有預計什麼時候可以真正落實原住民自治 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10770.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10788.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
這個至少要有兩三年以上的行程兩三年 然後明年你說明年會整個擴大來辦理好 我們希望這是原住民朋友的期待不要再一個十年 謝謝好 謝謝徐欣盈委員下一位我們請鄭天才委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10811.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10827.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
主席各位委員曾助委好這個今天有這個業務報告還有這個解凍案還有法案在今天你的業務報告裡面特別提到原住民組織法標題是原住民組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10832.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10859.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
然後還要研擬原住民組織法草案早就有了原住民組織法我在當企劃處處長的時候就草擬了我當副主委的時候就完成了還要研擬什麼呢然後無論是陳水扁總統或是尤其是馬英九總統都有送原住民組織法到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10862.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10885.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
只不過是送來說太晚了沒有完成所以退回去借其不聯繫所以都有了現在還在研擬這個真的是一個我們接下來就不用回答了但是要欠珍珠不要像某人 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10887.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10910.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
連送草案到立法院 到行政院都沒有啊最起碼要送行政院啦不要把責任全部扛在自己身上它很偉大的責任當初原住民族自治的一個好這裡面大家都在關心部落公法人的事辦請問一下這個經費要從哪裡支應 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10916.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10942.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我們從這個綜合規劃發展這個經費還有從這個綜合發展基金來支出這個經費這個經費你們的預算自用說明裡面沒有這些預算自用說明沒有這些所以你們是挪用好我們接下來我們接下來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10943.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10972.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
原住民族基本法第四條剛剛講了要制定這個原住民族自治法趕快定趕快送已經早就有草案了很重要的今天談部落公法人這是本席所提案的然後立法院三讀通過部落公法人延期法第二條之一寫得很清楚部落經中央原住民族主管機關核定者為公法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10973.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11002.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
所以要先要一 第二項要訂這個部落公法人的設置辦法這是授權 延民會自己訂喔法例授權 中央延民會自己訂所以公佈施行之後 104年12月16號馬英九公佈施行林江一主委很快的在105年5月3號卸任之前喔訂了部落公法人設置辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11003.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11031.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
然後你們也預告了105年5月3號林江一主委做了預告蔡總統就任預告之後沒有幾天蔡總統就任然後8月1號蔡總統承諾部落公法人的制度已經推動上路大家都非常高興有了法律又有草案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11032.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11054.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
然後一將主委在106年10月27號也做了預告做了一些修正做了一個廣泛的徵詢意見之後就預告了都預告了現在還事辦什麼呢對不對還事辦什麼呢都有啊都有草案啊趕快發布才對啊因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11056.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11084.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
你說事辦 你也要先依當初的依原計法第二條之一發佈這個部落公法人的設置辦法如果你想事辦 你可以在這個辦法裡面加一條先事辦你可以加一條事辦的公法人才可以成為公法人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11085.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11108.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
你是一個公法人的部落你事辦才有一個成效到底是怎麼樣啊你才有部落公法人的前者前者跟前例跟義務才能夠才才真正的才能夠達到事辦的效果不然的話沒有部落公法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11109.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11136.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
你這個沒有辦法 你就沒有法規依據嘛你用那個事辦計畫他就不是公法人啊沒有公法人的地位沒有這個潛力義務你怎麼事辦 淪為空談嘛就是原來那是部落嘛你還是現在的部落沒有地位你事辦什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11137.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11166.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
你沒有譴責啊 你怎麼事辦所以還是要趕快發布部落公法人設置辦法啊 主委趕快發布我們會就是說謝謝委員這個指教啦要勇敢的跟這個主委講過去我當企劃處處長也是很勇敢的跟主委講啊對不對 我當副主委的時候也是很勇敢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11168.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11193.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
不要怕就送上去就不用送啊我說那個亞巴蘇聯我們送成何然後主委就把它發布不用送行政院呢授權給你呢這麼大譴責中華民國的法律給你這麼大的譴責又不敢奇怪了所以這個部分好我們接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11195.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11223.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以當初因為有這樣的提案所以等一下我們預算提案解凍案的時候我們可以繼續討論好接下來這個進法補償當初我提要追加預算而且還要求你1月31號以前要送到主計總處這個是考慮到立法院的會期啊那個曾主委立法院的會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11224.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11242.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
到這個月5月31號6月開始是休會還好我們上禮拜前幾天表決通過要延會到7月31號所以還有機會進法補償的追加預算的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11243.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11272.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
趕快送來在你的報告裡面提到你已經比我的比法院所通過的結議預算案的解通案的結議慢了兩個月你是3月10號3月10號送到行政院你每天啊或是每個禮拜碰到行政院主計長還有這個院長跟他報告的這個急迫信啊不然你9月怎麼發放 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11274.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11301.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
你7月30還要我們有研會啊不然的話你9月10月是立法院的總質詢的時間不會處理那個議案啊所以抓住這個時間趕快要求每個禮拜就跟那個主計長講可以嗎可以每個禮拜就跟他講不要一直躺在他的桌上他有退回嗎有沒有退回 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11302.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11331.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
還沒有退回沒有退回嘛對嘛沒有退回就要趕快這個是你要跟他講卓榮泰院長所承諾的啊對不對最佳預算是卓榮泰院長所承諾的嘛最後一個題目齁這個住宅啊原住民的專屬的社會住宅過去沒有住宅法的時候你看基隆1億當時啊81年啊1億多原住民的國宅啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11332.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11360.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
然後你看這個新店的中正原住民住宅兩億多的經費然後這個新三峽的兩億多的住宅然後汐止花東新村四億多這個是最快的邊公寓上直接買那個人民的那個民間的集合式住宅這個是直接買喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11361.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11380.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
直接買民間的集合式住宅法那時候是沒有住宅法 現在啊一樣的做法一樣的做法我們看住宅法你先看住宅法第二條第四項 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11382.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11404.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
目的事業主管機關就是指中央人民會為了原住民主的教育語言文化的傳承發展需要要興建專攻原住民成都的社會住宅這個是法例105年等一下105年12月23號所明訂的原住民的現在都會區人口已經達到51.57%了你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11411.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11437.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
新北市台北市桃園市台中市原住民的自有住宅的比例這麼的低所以要裝要興建或是買作為原住民的專攻的社會住宅這個是有法律的依據啊處長他想要說什麼目的事業主管機關是地方政府錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11439.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11464.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
住宅法第二條寫得很清楚地方政府是什麼是主管機關啊他不是目的主委主管機關所以是延命會的責任啊這個我曾經執行國發會啊國發會說我執行國發會說要給你們機會修你們原住民的住宅四年計劃原住民族住宅四年計劃國發會說可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11469.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11487.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
國發會說可以他我質詢完之後馬上就發文給人民會啊主委3月21號我把國發會的承諾說要趕快他還說要看要快不然會來不及組長這個計劃說成何了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11490.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11519.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
包委員喔 社會住宅目前都是用融資來新建那因為目前地方都有提出都是要中央全額補助所以我們沒有辦法 有沒有全額補助是另外可以談的至少你又有錢啦你連一塊錢都沒有融資平台本來就是用融資本來就金財源就會沒有問題那現在地方呢都是要求全額補助 其實中央平台國發會都同意這不是國發會輸了就算 國發會都同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11521.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11547.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
針對在這個你們的四年計劃裡面原住民族住宅四年計劃現在整個地方就新建住宅經費總共是72億總共是72億其實中央是沒有辦法全部都是應該用自償性的方式來去做處理處長 鄭主委我早上還質詢了國發會主委早上喔 今天早上喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11549.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11577.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
他說沒有問題 可以趕快請嚴明會送來好不好所以這個部分是一個非常非常重要最後最後剩下十秒鐘嚴明會委託政治大學已經完成的台灣研究民主正名運動政府體制文獻史料會篇主委這趕快印好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11579.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11587.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
謝謝鄭念才委員的諮詢下一位我們請鍾嘉斌委員諮詢鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌委員不在下一位我們請郭國文委員諮詢主席有請鄭主委鄭主委有請委員好主委你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11604.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11630.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我從在2008年的時候在憲府時期的時候就參與這個平普正名的運動那四個多年了終於在將近三年前的時候呢這個憲法第17號已經出爐給予那個平普族親有一道的希望這三年來我也曾經在這個園民會這邊做過要求要跟民間對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11632.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11647.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
不過我們國家對這個評普組只有予以文化的承認而憲判的結果是正式的予以政治的承認而這個政治的承認要一些法定權利的一個給予但是必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11648.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11673.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
符合一些要件一來三年之內要完成立法那不是修法 就是立新法民間一直想說要用修法的方式但是你們卻用新法的方式這個部分待會請主委說明一下大家一直沒有辦法接受但就實質的內容來說大家希望說集體的權利的部分應該符合原住民基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11674.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11687.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
而另外的部分呢在限制當中有提到說呢曾作為國家資源要另以法令定制你用一個三年內要制定但是所有的民間的版本希望在個人的權利部分能夠一年內達成主委這裡頭還沒有一個討論商量的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11694.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11709.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
主委請回答好這個平埔族平埔族這個生物法我們在5月15號已經送大業也送來送很晚了我講老師說比較慢還是我們山崔市感是山崔市處才產生出來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11712.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11739.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那現在就是說我們的平埔的這個族群的朋友他們是希望所有的權利都能夠一次就到位那但在這個原來的山地原住民跟平地原住民來講是希望說他是有別以這兩個族群的那這個原住民族的這個基本法他是在規範這個山地原住民跟平地原住民的那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11741.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11760.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
這個平埔族群是後來的那當然有一些這個基本法裡面有一些切實沒有辦法來規範現在的這個平埔原住民所以我們當然要用另外的專法來為平埔族的這個族人量身打造我覺得關鍵其實在那三年跟一年之間是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11761.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11787.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
有關於個人權益的部分你用三年的部分老實講大家就會覺得充滿變數充滿變數不只是內容的問題而已而且還要包括整部法令的部分你現在現階段你如果這麼有自信的話用一個新法的方式想要來處理平埔原住民的身份跟權益的問題的話那我就問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11788.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11812.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
你們現在推出來之後 你有把握在這個會期當中能夠通過嗎我們希望在這個會期當中不然下個會期九月就開始了啊是十月就到期了不是嗎對主委我覺得你沒有什麼危機感如果十月就還是這個生活沒有通過的話我們平埔原住民族的這個民主認定我們立刻就會啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11814.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11837.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
對 認定是該是啟動嘛 但是權益的部分規範還是模模糊糊嘛沒有一個法令上的依據嘛 憲判就希望你三年內完成立法工作嘛 是對 不是嗎 是就是主委您的責任啊 是啊對啊 那現在又出現啊 出現了另一個委員的版本啊連原住民三個字連提都不提基本上這根本是違憲的嘛 不是嗎沒有錯 這個當然 剛剛都沒有聽到你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11838.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11859.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
可是問題是現實的政治多數當中這個違憲的法案如果萬一通過的話那你來怎麼辦我就問你啊這個如果是內容的一個法律來推過的話當然我們沒有辦法接受啦我們也會拜託行政院這裡也要提出至少也要提出呼籲或者是釋憲啊所以說呢萬一萬一 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11861.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11874.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
如果呢 因為是花藝財 我願意承認原住民的身份違反了第17號判 憲判的話你還是可以踩住你的基本的立場該赴議的時候赴議 該釋憲的時候要釋憲否則這個矮化嘛 這個歧視嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11879.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11902.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以主委你的立場要踩住啊而且很重要的是說這內容的部分要如何讓這個憲法的判決得以這個落實之外還有部分還要讓這個竹青的這個期待可以落實啊是所以竹青期待落實的部分的這個內容之外我覺得趁這個機會啦反正現在研會已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11904.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11920.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
成為自己的事實了嘛你不如就這個時候一來加強這個立法工作在這個會期把它完成二來加強對話再來台南一次因為西拉雅是平埔族當中最大的文化儀式祭典也是最完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11921.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11940.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
現階段呢 基本上他們行動是最積極的對你能不能撥個時間來下來跟台南對話一下會 我們要盡快就趕快沒有沒有 我是說這個會期之內喔對啊 我趕快就在那邊安排喔對加強民間對話是積極推動立法是讓憲判能夠得以早日落實好不好好 加油謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11944.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11951.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
好,謝謝郭國文委員的諮詢,下一位我們請鄭振前委員諮詢鄭振前委員,鄭振前委員不在,下一位我們請吳立華委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11963.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11982.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
謝謝主席有請園民會主委曾主委有請主委好主委好今天我想要問的議題蠻多的一共有九個議題所以時間有限之下希望就是很簡短的回答可以不可以願不願意配合好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11983.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11993.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那第一個部分呢我跟大家一樣我要來關心我們的原基法原住民自治還有部落工法人為什麼因為我在去年院會總諮詢的時候有特別提到今年2025年是我們的原基法20年 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12002.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12018.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
所以呢我很希望至少原住民自治也好部落工法人也好至少能夠有一個推進那當時呢我給我們的卓院長看了一個20秒的影片現在我們再來重複看一下啊嗯 沒有聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12039.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12065.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
抱歉喔 聲音出不來有文字好這位做過鄉長 做過校長 做過議員八十幾歲的老人家他講完這段話之後呢一個禮拜他就因為意外過世齁那個主委當時你有在現場有你應該很清楚這段話是 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12067.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12085.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這個做過地方政府這麼多行政工作的老人家 齊老 長老他非常非常感慨的說希望部落工法人要上路而且他覺得如果我還有機會當選四年至少能夠做到這一項就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12086.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12103.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
所以我当时我有提到我希望原民会行政院可以做到第一个定定部落公法人的设置条例第二个拟定草案并办理分区座谈第三拟定三年期部落公法人的沙盒计划选定事办典办理 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12104.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12133.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
我很高興今年有出來但是我也很意外因為跟我想的不太一樣我從你們公布的這個事辦計畫的內容我看到什麼呢我看到說要辦原住民傳統名字查調部落族語文化樂舞及傳統體育活動部落及毗鄰區域自然資源調查巡護管理部落產業的規劃推動傳統建築文化地景及公共事業一共八項 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12135.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12150.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
这八项都很好没有不好但是我觉得跟我们想象的部落工法人不太一样因为为什么我们需要部落工法人他是一个工具我举个例子像我们的雅尼我们怎么去谈 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12151.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12171.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們這些要水利發電的電廠我們怎麼跟他談光電的地熱的我們怎麼跟他談我光是講一個最簡單的我們文化發展中心我們每一年因為使用了北業村的土地你們有給他們這個所謂的補償金50萬但是他是被放入鄉公所 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12173.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12192.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
不是直接給北葉村讓他授意因為他沒有部落公法人我再舉個簡單的例子很多我們的狩獵自主團體他必須要去打一個行政契約可是他想跟縣政府打縣政府不願意他也沒轍因為他不是部落公法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12193.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12202.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
所以部落工法人這個工具非常的重要那我是本來想說目前有很多的部落正在面臨這種開發問題等等的時候可以找他們來試辦部落工法人計畫那我們也可以呢去透過沙盒計畫把一些在我們的法律框架下會遇到的阻礙我們把它盤整出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12217.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12245.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那讓他順利的推動以後我們就可以呢去進行擴大辦理甚至是法制化的規劃那我覺得也沒有關係我們已經上路所以第一個部分我就希望主委今年年底原民會說要辦理成果說明及檢討那我是希望說至少明年度擴大辦理讓有需要的人來提出訂定一個犯法那第二個不要忘記我們這個就是為了法制化的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12246.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12268.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
主委可以嗎可以好那謝謝齁那第二個部分呢我來關心元寶條例為什麼我關心元寶條例我在這個會期我也去經過我們卓院長的一個質詢齁我跟他講說其實元寶條例很重要因為我們就有看到前陣子的新聞出來在苗栗泰安鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12270.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12284.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
大家都很嘩然啊 喔原來900萬就可以去抵押2億去設定抵押權2億 那到底是怎麼一回事我們都很清楚知道 這個就是長期以來的鑑明登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12285.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12307.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那如果查出背後有中資那更不得了因為目前我們的兩岸人民關係條例也好我們的所有的條例都沒有辦法去查出背後是誰所以在這個部分你們有在5月21號齁昨天有給我一個函附齁說你們元寶地目前清查進度有了但是我看不到元寶條例的目前進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12308.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12312.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那我是在想因為原開辦法你們也已經在3月5號做修正那原開辦法我們就是希望它未來能夠成為原保條例那這個當中也是引起嘩然因為你們的新辦法說未來的分配計畫要由縣市政府來核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12325.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12349.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
而且呢增加了一個但書去做一個限制申請人的資格所以我們也接到很多的陳情特別是很多人他已經完成公告核定那面臨這個新法舊法又沒有一個公告期他也不知道要怎麼辦但是主委我在這邊我只有一個想法原有頭再有主我們不能夠為了防弊去損害人民的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12350.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12368.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我們要防弊的 是不是那些審查的委員 核定的人我們不能夠把這樣的一個防弊加諸在損害人民的權益上面所以我希望這個部分一週內可以到辦公室報告看看怎麼樣去處理那第三題呢 我特別想要來謝謝您因為在5月19號前幾天謝謝您的支持跟農糧署 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12374.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12391.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
你們願意在九月份讓我們的國產部落小米進入到全國的營養午餐那也很感謝我們的團善業者他們願意共襄盛舉來處理這個五六月學生營養午餐的部分那這個就是我講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12393.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12409.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我們原民會要有上位思考你看我做立法委員我第一年進來我就一直跟林務局林保署說獎勵趙琳必須要縮短年限要增加補助額度那我相信他們九月也即將公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12410.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12414.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
第二個 我也覺得既然照領獎勵提高 禁法補償因應也要跟著提高 才不會失衡那也很謝謝我們通過 雖然呢一直有很多人製造恐慌但是我從來沒有恐慌 因為會做的事政府就是會做我不需要去恐慌 那我們就等著九月那第三個就是高山農業 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12432.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12455.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那高山農業很重要所以呢我也一直在跟我們的農業部一直在討論怎麼恢復我們的高山農業因為它是一個解植土地最重要的一個歷程我們不知道以前梨山可以種水梨但是現在有茶有水梨有高麗菜都不是我們這個土地本來長的植物那我很謝謝你那天說了一句很重要的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12455.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12475.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
要有人吃才有人種 有人種才會有量有量才會主流化 才會有產業主流化之後文化就會活起來所以 園民會你是否願意跟農糧署就是針對這一些我們現在沒有量所以價格壓不下來你們願不願意跟農糧署 農糧署已經答應我了你願不願意一起的來支持獎勵種植小米 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12479.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12501.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那第四個部分我想要爭取無人機的就業計畫無人機我也是質詢過很多年那您也知道它的重要性但是呢我們現在碰到一個問題因為民航局他要的證照不是我們質詢一次就可以領到他至少要三次以上才有辦法得到那個真正去噴灑農藥或者是載運藥物等等的那種執照 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12504.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12512.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
所以呢現在我們勞動部執訓局他已經願意了只要能夠在每一次的結訓對應到我們的就業的項目他們這個KPI能夠交代的過去他們就願意來做那現在園民會你是不是願意將這個無人機飛手的這些相關的人力需求去盤點園民會可以提供的機會例如我們的檢測人員啦巡山員啦 勘栽的時候的救護員等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12534.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12550.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
原民會是不是願意來規劃好 這個我們執信已經納入了好 那我要特別提醒我其實去盤點勞動部執訓這些年為我們原住民做的不是農業就是觀光就是傳統文化勞作等等我希望原民會要有一個想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12551.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12566.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我們要與時俱進我們要多開一些好的能夠跟新的產業結合的要不然我們很容易被邊緣化那第五個部分就是關於力領人才的培訓那這個部分我知道我們的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12568.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12592.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
處長他已經很認真已經有去就探盤查探驗證的人才跟一些大學像中山大學已經有去開班但是我希望你們跟環境部因為環境部已經答應我可以在每個縣市來針對原住民就近開設專班但是我要問原民會你願不願意跟環境部一起合作來開設這種原住民綠頂人才的培育專班 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12593.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12597.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
這沒有問題我們會跟他們一起來做好謝謝那第六個部分就是今天有原基法的一個提案修法版本我也有其實我在去年的四月也就是第一會期我就把八月一號原住民族日跟我們的歲時計一架我放到我們的原基法 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12613.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12625.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
讓他能夠有法源依據而不要呢在那個地方去跟人家去爭但是現在碎石記憶架被誤會的很嚴重我必須要講因為我也有跟原民會講過確實我們不要去看那個數字因為當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12630.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12658.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
是因為八八風災有所謂的八百壯士很多的多元人力就業還有很多政府這幾年的計畫去把這個地方工作權保障去壓住我們所謂的失業率但是我們不能夠忘記確實很多的族人很擔心也確實很多的族人他可能他未來老闆在禁用人員的時候他一想到原住民他就不想用了從哪裡可以看你們的貸金越來越多一年比一年多 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12659.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12677.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
也就是企業他寧可繳代金他也不願意經用原住民人員那我的意思是說很好現在我們就是要來爭取原民會我之前謝謝你們有做原地的即時就業計畫那勞動部的缺工獎勵也同意納入原住民我現在要問原民會是不是應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12678.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12699.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
從你們的貸金一樣錢從哪裡來人家不願意用用繳貸金我們來用貸金去創造更多的誘因給我們的雇主可以嗎可以不要讓我們的族人去上班很擔心很害怕那第七個就是教保員的部分我這幾年已經幫忙很多次但是我只講一句話因為時間已經到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12701.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12715.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
不要每一次來澄清 我覺得很辛苦民民互助教保中心跟澄清室都是一樣在做公共化的服務不論薪資 不論人員 不論權益是不是應該把他們逐步調整一起可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12717.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12742.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
這個已經挑釁好了對那謝謝你們以後就不要再來問他們問這種問題那最後就是我關心的知識體系一直到最後的課綱教材我希望一條龍的計畫這個我已經開很多次協調會教育部 國教署 國教院 國科會 中研院我全部都協調過了那我也看到你們都有共識我們可不可以原住民是在跟時間賽跑啊我們把它做一計畫一條龍好嗎可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12744.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12764.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
那謝謝那我也希望這個部分我們一起來努力那污水道系統內政部已經同意規劃設計費600萬這是政府的錯他把全國的永久屋他用都市計畫的污水道的方式來處理造成我們怨聲載道那現在很高興內政部願意出600萬設計規劃原民會你們願意出多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12768.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12794.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
願意就是我們他們內政部已經這個沒有什麼意見我們會我們會技術核定規劃設計會在2000萬左右OK那環境部已經表明這個不符合他那我請主委你應該要去跟縣政府溝通可以嗎那以上九個議題希望園民會兩週內能夠提出報告或者到辦公室說明好謝謝主委謝謝各位處長謝謝主席好謝謝吳立華委員下一個我們請盧縣議委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12808.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12825.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
主席有請主委主委有請主委好主委好 辛苦了那就針對評估組的問題問一個問題就是說面臨評估組即將加入他大概規劃的人數大概多少預期的人數會入籍的人數50個 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12831.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12848.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
五十個?還是五十萬?五十萬啦人數啊,平埔族平埔族五十萬今年沒有那麼快,今年大概十萬啦那我想說,突然增加這麼多人你們科是有準備增加人力來幫忙這些業務嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12850.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12878.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我們會我們會針對這個因為一定一定人數越多他的業務量一定越大所以是在哪一個單位也是在中規處中規處那我接下來就要提一些我在部落聽到的問題跟主委來切磋一下那我常常在遇到部落的一些我們的領導人物比如說理事長啊部落會議主席這些他們一直問希望能夠透過這個窗口來直接問你說有沒有可能也會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12879.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12887.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
以後會有津貼社區理事長或者是部落會議主席目前他們都是無脊植有這樣的規劃或者是說計畫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12891.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12911.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
跟委員報告 切實目前沒有這樣的規劃那我們內部再討論一下好不好因為如果你走到部落一定會遇到這些問題就是現在我還是會受到一些懲請就是說我們目前曾經是族裔的教學他可能會遇到一些斷糧的問題所以這個部分你了解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12913.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12933.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
沒有這個咧 他說你要終點式的沉浸式主義補助計畫跟我們報告 沉浸式教學最主要精神是要每天有一段時效的長期的沉浸才叫沉浸式目前終點的部分我們覺得它不符合沉浸的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12937.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12965.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
終點式的部分我們會暫停不過如果學校願意來做其他的教學計畫我們可以透過我們的原住民族語言補助辦法的申請還是可以申請終點式的確定會停止就對了終點式因為它不符合沉浸式的精神所以我們會停可是它可以轉到別的計畫來申請那針對首例的問題我們現在很多族人都想說這個班級好像太少族人大概知道我們目前台灣的我們原住民的戀人有多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12966.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12987.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我知道委員的意思就是說我們這個訓練的課程太少了而且像東部就沒有辦法辦我們會趕快希望在西北海中公告以後很多獵人現在是沒有辦法使用槍支的所以你這個50人實在太少了而且是50人去受訓的話他們100%可以拿到證書嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12989.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13009.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
還要很認真上課啦所以我意思是說你應該是不是北中南東都要辦一下然後趕快辦理我們立刻來辦好不好然後現在就是遇到就是借款的問題啦我們常常看到就是我們如何來提高金融結構乘坐原保地的這個抵押貸款你們所做的努力在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13012.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13027.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這個有關這個抵押貸款的部分我想我們會在這個我們的野保條例還有我們的這個原住民的這個管理辦法裡面我們會這個會不讓就是說這個土地不要讓那個不要設定這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13029.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13055.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
高的抵押錢所以我們希望說現在有承作的可能性嗎?這一兩年?是公股銀行嗎?對,跟委員報告,已經有公股銀行願意承作要點跟企業查案,現在在做最後的簽署可以跟居民說,園民會有做努力,感謝園民會的幫忙好不好目前是土銀跟核庫願意啦主委以前我們都可以跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13057.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13066.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
聽過所謂的國民住宅嘛可是現在都沒有所以那個自建自購這個部分或者說修商住宅貸款這個部分你們有做哪方面的一個規劃嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13068.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13089.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
這個部分在元寶跟委員報告這個部分在元寶地信貸裡頭已經有規劃進去所以這一兩年也會呈現就是剛才鄭天才委員講到社會住宅那我們現在目前看到的計畫有像是只有台中市 霧峰跟沙鹿我想說主委你來自屏東 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13090.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13118.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我們高坪地區這個社會住宅的迫切性我覺得也是很高因為現在部落不可能很快就長大嘛那很多我們老二老三必須要外出去自己找房子的要去買房子的這些所以這個需求應該是很大的所以應該你要早一點去規劃說我們高坪或者說比較多的一些都市原住民的地區儘早規劃以後才會知道說我們以後要在哪裡自產這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13120.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13134.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
報委員可以喔 他們目前的簽證計畫 他們 縣政府就已經核定了那現在就是說他們對簽證方案還沒有共識那如果他們有共識的話 我們會來給予協助是嗎 目前還沒有共識對 OK |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13136.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13157.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
好最後就是關於那個我上次去言平下有講到有些族人因為他們進法補償必須繳回的問題就當時在規劃的時候可能他的進法補償是屬於都市計劃區內結果後來被查到說他不屬於進法補償的範圍結果就造成有一角一嶺 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13160.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13179.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
要追回三年的補償金這個部分原委會有沒有需要了解或者是尋求協助啊謝謝委員這個部分我們查出來就是說這個的事務或者是這個辦的這個有被誤解就是有失誤的地方這個是在縣政府跟相公所 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13179.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13189.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
那現在我們希望就是民眾可以分歧繳納或者是抵扣這個原來的補償款這樣對民眾比較最少的困擾了好謝謝主委謝謝好繼續我們請吳啓明吳啓明委員質詢謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13209.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13224.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
好 乍為一味同仁 請我們一出名 欸 指揮指揮好 來 指揮 我還是針對我 我的選區喔 你在三峽喔 我們做一個那個 就是紀委所喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13227.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13248.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
現在我們爭取了三千零七百萬那在我們三峽的龍埔社區的旁邊客家園區的旁邊那現在整個工程的進度如何各位報告我們六月底就會上網公告希望年底就把它做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13253.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13272.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那未來完成是不是做一個開放式讓我們社區的大家可以共同來使用因為你使用力一定要高你不能說坐著在那邊養蚊子就沒意義啊那我當初所講的那你的廁所的位置配置有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13274.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13297.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
對 把他放進來 都有卡因為我們那個算是一個原住民M7那你未來在北大那邊人口非常多那你還可以讓我們結合社區共同來享用我們原住民這個M7這個聚會所那這樣你才有意義不然我們也花了那麼多錢所以還是要有多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13298.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13316.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
人員來共同使用這才能創造說一個我們所蓋的使用力才會大大提升那這樣才有意義啊讓他的使用力越高越好啦對對對對然後還再來勒我看到我們現在規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13321.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13342.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
我們的足矣的教學傳統的公益展包括文化的導覽那現在這個規劃是非常的好但是我現在發現一些偏鄉的偏鄉的他們那個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13345.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13371.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那個FB裡面的那個信號信號就都不好那是我們偏鄉是信號的問題我們是不是在那個網路網路那個再把它加強然後讓我們偏鄉的小朋友大家都能夠讓我們網路的資訊都能夠吸收得到這是應該是比較我們要注重的因為很多小朋友現在都會上網是 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13373.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13396.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
那你網路的系統是不是要更加的順暢好我們會要求這個我們中國醫處來趕快把這個事情做好因為這個經費不是很多啦那你一些小朋友還是要讓他們接觸說整個的對我們未來一些新的知識大家都能夠充分的了解那這是應該是我們要去推廣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13397.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13409.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
好我們會趕快來做那再來我還有一個問題就是我們土城的那個原住民生態園區啊就是以前那個海山煤礦那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13416.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13442.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那之前生態園區也是委員的支持那我們有補助他做第一期的那個改善的費用總共是700多萬那目前已經完工了對因為你那個我們那個生態那個生態公園你現在做起來但是還是使用力還是不高因為我們的原住民在土城非常多那土城非常多你有到土城有沒有到土城過 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13443.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13458.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
有有有,那個地方我去過那土城我們所辦的活動都要跟里長借活動中心啊所以你未來我常講你擔任一個族委你要有擔當就是要照顧族人嘛那族人喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13461.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13487.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
講這藍廳的那小姨娘的都要去拜託里長然後這邊借那邊借那你要有一個聚會所聚會所我們原住民M7你說去找嘛原住民M7那個範圍未來海山煤礦開發那一邊又是一個新興的都會區那交通也便利那是不是我們要朝這個方向不然你說要找土地現在土地也不好找啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13488.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13505.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
所以你要將現有的蓋一個紀惠所讓我們所有原住民他們在土城才有一個地方不用去跟里長借不用去跟公所借那你這樣才能永續的照顧到我們的原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13506.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13531.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
這個我們來努力看看好不好因為我每次的會期都在拜託因為說實在的原住民在土城也是非常多原住民早期在土城也算是一個弱勢弱勢團體那我們弱勢團體我們當然我們一定要去照顧他們你身為一個主委一定要有擔當好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13534.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13542.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝吳啟民委員好 繼續我們請丁薛忠委員 丁薛忠委員是書面報告 那繼續我們請陳毅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13561.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13566.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
主委請教一下有些部落聚會所的設計規劃還有宜居部落的基本設施建設的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13577.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13589.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
據我所知很多在農曆年前其實你們都已經審查完畢了但是呢公所到現在其實沒有辦法拿到核定函請問是什麼原因來跟我們報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13594.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13607.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
其實因為受限於預算凍結的關係所以有些我們目前還沒有辦法去做核定那我們非常期盼這次解凍後我們能夠趕快把地方的需求趕快去協助他們來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13608.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13627.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
所以就是因为预算大幅被冻结或者删减所以影响到我们地方很多部落的这个建设等等的这个计划那我举几个例子比如说台东的这个巴萨瓦利聚会所的这个规划经费 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13628.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13650.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那我想很多那个郑天才委员的太太他也是那个地方的人他们也很多的亲戚住在那边那再来就是花莲光复阿都莫的基础建设以及这个马太安部落的战事墙等等这几个案子也是花莲我想郑委员是花莲那边的人应该都要很关心才是 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13651.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13679.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那因為今年這個預算的這個刪減數2075億元創歷史新高那現在呢當然發生了很多就是說中央補助地方的經費沒有辦法順利的這個撥下去那現在地方政府當然就是哇哇叫包括昨天台東縣政府我跟這個跟那邊的長官對話的時候他們也是叫苦連天 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13680.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13688.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
那我們都來自地方喔那去年這樣子的這個這個亂山這樣的預算齁的結果我想就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13690.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13717.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
這些提案的委員齁應該最後終於要知道就是說這樣亂刪預算的這個結果就是拿石頭砸自己的腳嘛我剛剛講的那幾個地方不都是他們自己應該要很關心的地方嗎那我想待會兒這個就是海水退了齁我們就知道誰沒有穿褲子待會兒審預算在我們在解凍預算我們就可以知道是誰在擋這個預算那可能有些提案人或許是人頭那 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13719.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13729.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
帮助协助一些其他委员提案的好那我们大家都可以好好来看一下那另外就是说我请一下那个原语会的部分因为我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13737.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13763.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
我也好政府後來就是也鼓勵大家學習學習這個母語那當然我們現今就是說整個原住民的語言有16足42個語別嘛那不論是在都會區或者是原鄉原住民都想有不少的這個家長呢其實都想要找到合適的主義老師給孩子好好教導他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13764.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13787.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那當然就是說在都會區是更加沒有這個族語學習的環境我前日子接到一個新北市就是說新北族人的一個陳情案因為在學校呢他沒有合適的族語老師所以這位媽媽呢就希望幫自己的孩子能夠聘到這個排灣族的族語老師可是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13788.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13809.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
因為找不到那園友會你們有設置有建置這樣的平台但是你們這樣子的平台呢其實只提供只有提供給這個公務機關查詢那所以這個陳情人他必須先透過再透過這個地方政府幫他查那查完之後再回覆給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13810.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13837.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
討論的內容當然包括就是說教學方式啦就是要面對面啦或者視訊還是有其他的方式那還有教學費用等等那如果後來再有其他問題衍生的話那這樣一來一往其實花了很多的時間是非常麻煩的所以本席才想要說建議你們一個模式啦這個模式是我過去曾經協助過這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13840.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13840.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13842.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13870.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我们职棒工会建制的一个就是说向体育署申请补助的这个职棒退役人才媒合资料库那这个棒球教练跟这个朱宇老师其实也有非常相同的一个情形因为在各级的学校还有这个社区他的就是说他们棒球教练有这个需求的时候呢透过体育署媒合非常快 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13871.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13898.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
但是发现就是说这个棒球运动的发展已经是非常生活化而且社区化了那很多的民间棒球或者是他们甚至有想要一对一的这个教学的这个社区棒球他们同样也有找不到这个教练的问题所以想要从事这个教学工作的教练他们也没有办法进入这个民间的市场所以在2022年我协助了这个职棒工会建置了这个网站 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13899.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13914.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
所以在这个网站里面可以选择希望找寻怎么样专长的教练在哪个区域哪个县市针对教学的费用学习者的年龄都可以在上面设定这个条件搜寻所以未来 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13915.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13942.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
原語會也可以設計類似這樣子的網站然後把這個可以把需要就是說我們要找哪個組別的這個哪個組別的這個主義老師然後教授的這個方式跟費用好都放上去那條件設定之後他就會就是自己會跑出來合適的資訊去去做這個全台的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13944.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13965.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
連結跟媒合因為這個是就是說如果像之前那個平台教練自己願意他可以把他的聯絡資訊直接自己再加上去所以最後讓學員可以從這個上面獲得資訊然後直接聯繫所以就不會有個資的問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13968.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13985.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
所以这个部分董事长你觉得这样的建议如何谢谢委员那目前我们除了这个各自的部分人才库已经是提供给公部门那刚刚委员所提的我们会做一个炒你之后再跟委员做说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13986.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14010.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好我想如果有這個管道更便利的話那我想這個對於這個整個主語的推動學習是更有幫助的好謝謝那那個經發處處長其實同樣的道理我相信在很多的這個不管是部落也好或者在都會區在社區也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14011.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14036.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
那甚至个人其实有很多人也想要学习我们传统的一些不管是工艺或者一些手作等等的这些师资也可以请你们一并刚刚我已经有举例了你们可以朝这个方向去盘点然后也同样建置这样子的一个平台可以对于我们的整个文化传承其实也是有帮助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14037.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14051.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
我想這樣的規劃經費應該都不會很多但一點點的錢可以做很多的就是說讓我們整個族語也好整個文化傳承也好是有相當大的幫助也請你們一併規劃那沒問題我們來處理好謝謝好謝謝陳委員的資訊謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14062.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14079.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
登记发言委员除了不在场之外其余都已经发言完毕了我们现在询答结束委员丁学忠还有林一锦委员所提的书面质询列入记录刊登公报书面质询和未及答复部分请相关单位在一周之内已书面 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14082.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14101.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
現在我們進行討論事項處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關原住民委員會預算解凍案總共有16案還有原住民文化中心預算解凍案總共4案我們現在討論一下請問一下家常委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14102.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14108.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
主席,我是覺得有問題,奇怪的說,因為剛才我們有協商,去了解總統,有時候有國會,看人看有什麼意見,看看有沒有辦法補充好,請問一下盧縣英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14123.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14138.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
好那如果是這樣的話我們就按照剛剛那個美會委員所說的就是呢事實上我們剛剛在休息的時候一直都有持續的來討論那至於這個我本席有提幾個案大家聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14139.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14156.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
第二案第三案第六案第十一案我們希望這幾案呢原民會繼續再提出你們的一些說明還有這個資料然後呢我們才予以解凍如果有意見的話呢我們現在休息五分鐘然後我們討論一下謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14556.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14585.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
好來我們繼續開會謝謝有關原住民委員會預算解凍案有16案除了第二第三第六第11案繼續凍結我們另外定期處理之外其餘的13案就同意凍之然後提報12對對不起其餘的12案同意凍之然後來提報院會那另外原住民文化中心預算解凍案總共4案都同意凍之好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14587.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14589.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
報告委員會宣讀討論事項二所列法案條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14598.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14627.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
第二条委员高金素美等21人提案增订第六款第七款六原住民族传统领域土地细致原住民族部落传统祭典祖林圣地旧部落列区或耕耕土地经依法化设公原住民族部落使用之土地七原住民保留地细致既有原住民保留地及依法增编或化编公原住民使用之土地其余同现行条文委员卢宪一等18人提案第一款增订撒奇莱雅族赛德克族 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14627.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14655.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
拉阿鲁瓦族卡纳卡纳富族其余同意现行条文第二条之一委员高金素梅德21日人提案修正为第二条之一政府因应民族意愿辅导原住民族各族建制该族民族会议处法律令有规定外依法代表各该民族行政机关经各族民族会议同意者得就该族有关事务之管辖事项将其权限制一部分委托其办理原住民族各族民族会议运作所需经费有重要原住民族主管机关卓予补助 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14655.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14677.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
执行委托事务所需经费有委托机关之意第一项民族会议之设置命名组成运作及其他相关事项应尊重该族传统文化兼顾民族正义正当性及成员参与机会利益法律定制委员吴丽华等16呃增订第二条之二委员吴丽华等16人提案第二条之二定8月1日为原住民族日以尊重原住民民族地位与权益并促进各族族 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14678.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14695.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
并促进各族群认识原住民族文化价值原住民每年应有三日岁时记忆放假旅游各原住民族部落自主择地并报请中央原住民族主管机关公告之委员卢新一等18人提案第二条之二政府因民族意愿辅导原住民族各族建制该族民族议会民族议会 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14695.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14718.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
请中央援助民族主管机关核定者为公法人各组民族议会运作所需经费由中央援助民族主管机关着以补助执行委委托事务所需经费由委托机关支引第一项民族议会之设置命名组成运作及其他相关事项应尊重该组传统文化及氏族关系兼顾民主正当性及公众参与机会另以办法定制第四条 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14719.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14744.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
委員高金素美等二十一人提案第一項前段修正為政府應議原住民族各族意願增訂第二項前項自治之實施應依該族民族會議與政府對等協商通過該族自治方案辦理其餘同線條文第六條為黃人等二十一人提案將由總統府召開協商會議定之修正為由總統召開協商會議決定之其餘同線條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14746.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14767.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
委員鄭天才等十八人提案增訂第六條之一為彰顯原住民族證明之歷史意義特定定八月一日為原住民族日政府應訂定民族平等紀念日其日其由政府徵循原住民族後定之第八條委員盧仙怡等十八人提案第一項中段修正為應涉所屬一級原住民族專責機關或單位其餘同現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14769.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14797.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
第十条委员黄仁等二十二人提案第一项同线型条文增订第二项第三项经认可支援著名族文化产业得减免营业税及娱乐税前项认可及减免税捐办法及标准由中央主管机关汇同财政部定之委员卢宪一等十八人提案第三项修正为前项认可及减免税捐办法由中央主管机关汇同文化部及财政部定之其余同委员黄仁等二十二人提案第十五条委员高金素梅等二十一人提案委员黄仁等二十六人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14798.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14823.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
第二项中段之是需要得设置文字修正为应设置其余同线性条文委员卢宪一等18人提案第一项后段增订环保农产运销等文字第二项修正为政府为办理全项业务应设置原住民族地区建设基金新台币100亿元并于本法中华民国全年全月全日修正实行后5年内编列预算其基金之运用办法另定之其余同线性条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14825.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14847.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
第十八条为高金素美等二十人提案第十八条政府应设原住民族综合发展基金办理原住民族经济发展业务辅导事业机构住宅执行办租售建构及修缮业务原住民族综合发展基金总额不得低于新台币一百亿元其基金来源如下一中央政府循运算程序分二年编列预算或指定财源拨入而住宅租售及相关业务收益款 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14848.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14876.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
三原住民族土地赔偿补偿收益款土地资源开发盈利所得及相关法令规定之提拨款四原住民族地区温泉取用费提拨款五全部原住民族取得之智慧创作专用权收入六原住民族就业基金收入七人体研究计划咨询及取得原住民族或其所属特定族群同意约定就研究结果所衍生商业利益之回馈金八受证收入九本基金之自习收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14876.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14904.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
10相关法令规定之拨款11其他有关收入委员郑天才等17人提案第1项后段之修缮业务修正为修缮贷款业务第2项第3款前段增订公有文字其余通委员高金素美等20人提案第19条委员黄仁等30人提案第1项虚文增订河川文字第3款增订漂流木其余通现行条文第20条委员高金素美等21人提案第1项修正为政府承认原住民族对其土地及自然之预言之 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14905.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14931.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
处分计划管理及利用等权利其余同无现行条文委员高金素美等二十一人提案增订第二十条之一第二十条之一原住民保留地除依法不得私有外应辅导原住民取得承租权或无偿取得所有权原住民取得原住民保留地所有权如有依转于原住民为限有下列情形之一者得由政府承受私有原住民保留地依新办土地征收条例第三条第四条第一项规定之各款事业 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14931.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14932.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14952.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14979.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
保留地政府依前向第三款及第四款规定承受之原住民保留地除政府机关依法拨用外其余移转之收容以原住民为限国有原住民保留地出租衍生之收益得作为原住民保留地管理原住民足地区经济发展及基础设施建设原住民足自治费用不受国有财产法第七条规定之限制原住民保留地之认定基准增编划编所有权取得资格条件与程序开发利用与出租收益之管理运用 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14980.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
15003.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
正义处理及其他应遵行事项另一法律定之文高金素梅等21人提案增淀第20条之二原住民族传统领域土地处法律另有规定外应供原住民族部落为传统灌输之使用原住民族传统领域之土地之范围应尊重原住民族之历史及意愿其认定基准化设增编化编正义处理及其他应遵行事项之办法 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
15004.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
15029.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
有中央援助民族主管机关定制援助民族传统领域土地之申请使用对象程序使用方式及其他应遵行事项之办法有中央援助民族主管机关定制第21条委员吴立华等17人提案删除第1项第4项之公有文字第4项后段修正为受限制所生损失之补偿事项另一法律定制其余同现行条文委员高金素美等21人提案修正为 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
15029.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
15047.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
第21条政府承认原住民族土地计划管理权利并因应民族意愿定定各该族所属原住民族土地之计划管理方案政府合准开发利用原住民族土地或依法实施原住民族土地之利用限制措施时应符合前项计划管理方案有侵害当地原住民族土地权利之风险者 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
15048.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
15071.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
应经当地民族代表组织事先自由知情之同意政府核准或发布前项行政行为有致原住民族受有损失之风险者应采取适当措施免除或减少对原住民族之不利影响致身损失者应依法补偿委员卢新一等18人提案删除第一项及第四项前段之或部落及其周边一定范围内之公有土地等文字其余同性行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
15072.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
15091.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
第22条文高金素美等二十一任提案前段修正为政府与原住民族地区及其周边海域化设资源治理区域或设置资源治理机关时应征得当地原住民族同意并与当地原住民族建立共同管理机制本法施行前化设或设置者应与当地原住民族建立共同管理机制其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
15092.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
15109.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
为高清素美等21元提案增订第23条之一为彰显原住民族正名之历史意义促进各族群认识并共享原住民族文化价值特定定每年8月1日为原住民族日为国庆纪念日应与放假一日原住民每年应有3至7日岁时记忆放假日每年由民族各 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
15109.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
15132.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
各族民族会议自行责定报请中央援助民族主管机关公告之各族民族会议设置前各族岁时计议放假日应由中央援助民族主管机关征询援助民族各族后再行公告国家之各种纪念日地点地景及其他文化象征应纳入援助民族之文化与记忆第24条委员高金素美等21人提案第一项后站增订及相关卫生福利业务 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
15132.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
15154.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
第三项中段修正为原住民医疗或社会福利资源使用之交通费用增订第四项前项交通费用之申请程序应力求简化并定期检讨相关申请程序其余同现行条文第二十八条文高精素美等二十一人体验修正为政府对于居住于原住民族地区外之原住民以及部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
15155.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
15181.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
都市化后原住民居民之健康安居融资就学就养就业就医及社会适应等事项应加强保障及协助原住民族之区域均衡发展权益保障及社会适应等有关事项另一法律定制委员黄仁等20人提案增订第28条之一对于居住于原住民族地区以外之原住民政府应给予原住民族教育及语言文化等传承发展需要与公有土地新办或奖励民间新办售物 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
15182.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
15199.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
不受递之原住民族专属社会住宅专供原住民族承租或承购原住民族承租前向住宅并实际居住达一定年限与租赁期限满前提出承购申请者其承租期限已缴纳至租金及担保金得全部抵充应价款 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
15200.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
15221.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
原住民承购第一项或第二项之住宅如有移转或出租以原住民为限第一项原住民足住宅所需之土地得征收或申请无偿拨用取得公有土地后之处理不受国有财产法第28条土地法第25条及地方公产管理法规之限制第一项至第三项奖励民间新办住宅原住民承租承购及以 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
15222.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
15243.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
以租转购方式等相关办法另定之第三十条文高金素美等二十一人提案第一项修正为政府实施司法与行政救济程序公正调解仲裁或类似程序应尊重原住民族之族与传统习俗文化及价值观保障其合法权益并促进实质平等其办法另以法律定之第二项同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
15244.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
15270.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
文高金素美等21人提案增订第30条之一政府应尊重及保障原住民认同并遵循传统文化生活之权利法院就原住民族传统文化及灌输之实践有关案件为判决时得适用原住民族习惯法其相关事项另一法律定之前项原住民族习惯法由中央原住民族主管机关调查确认必要使得设置原住民族文化鉴定机构或委托专业学术机构办理宣布完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
15274.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
15278.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
討論事項二所列的議案另定期繼續審查本日的會議到這裡結束現在散會 |