| IVOD_ID |
16694 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16694 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-21T08:31:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-21T12:33:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:01:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3eac04fde1d52825d8907d3830e66495180a12e9ca99aa835c068dfeaa47385a0595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:56 - 12:33:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1943.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1955.173 |
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大家早安,請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會,出席委員12人已足法定人數報告委員會,現在開會,進行報告事項,請宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1957.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1974.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一届第三會期內政委員會第十九次全體委員會議事錄時間一百十四年五月十二日星期一上午九十三分至下午二十九分一百十四年五月十四日星期三上午九十五分至下午一十十五分地點群賢樓九樓大禮堂五月十二日星期一紅樓二零二會議室 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1975.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1996.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
5月14日星期三出席委员苏乔会委员等14人练习委员郑天才委员等16人练习官员5月12日海洋委员会主任委员管碧玲及相关人员不当当产处理委员会主任委员林峰正及相关人员中央选举委员会主任委员李静永及相关人员大陆委员会主任委员邱锤正及相关人员客家委员会主任委员谷秀飞及相关人员行政院主计总处公务预算处专门委员李毅荣 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1997 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2024.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
5月14日內政部部長劉士芳及相關人員行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員李培元主席張昭吉委員洪祿5月12日報告事項一宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定二處理114年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算凍結書面報告案及三案決定以上三案書面報告均與送達預算得以動之擬據報告提報院會三處理114年度中央政府總預算有關中央選舉委員會及所屬預算凍結書面報告案及疑案決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2026.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2052.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
本案书面报告已送达预算得以动之 拟据报告提报愿会四处理114年度中央政府总预算有关客家委员会及所属预算冻结书面报告案及三案决定以上三案书面报告均已送达预算得以动之 拟据报告提报愿会讨论事项一处理114年度中央政府总预算有关海洋委员会预算冻结专题报告专案报告案及八案讨论事项合并寻答海洋委员会主任委员管碧玲不当当产处理委员会主任委员林峰正中央选举委员会主 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2053.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2072.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
大陆委员会主任委员邱锤正、客家委员会主任委员谷秀飞报告委员王美惠等16人质询由不当党产处理委员会主任委员林峰正、大陆委员会主任委员邱锤正、客家委员会主任委员谷秀飞、中央选举委员会主任委员李金勇、海洋委员会主任委员管碧玲及相关人员及行政院主计总处公务预算处专门委员李毅柔答复说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2072.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2093.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
登记发言委员初步在场,则外区域均与发言完毕,询答结束。委员苏晓慧所提书面质询列入记录刊登公报,书面质询及未及答复部分,请相关机关于一周内另以书面答复并复制本会。主席宣告,本次会议质询时间循例并未减少,且仍是个别委员质询的需要,容许委员询答的时间左右延长,原此本次会议每位委员发言时间列入会议记录。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2095.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2120.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
決議討論事項一所列八案均同意動之擬據報告提報院會二處理一百一十四年度中央政府總預算有關不當黨產處理文匯預算凍結專案報告案計議案決議本案同意動之擬據報告提報院會三處理審查一百一十四年度中央政府總預算有關中央選舉文匯預算凍結專案報告案計四案決議討論事項三關乎二案令定期繼續審查其餘個案均同意動之擬據報告提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2121.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2149.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
4.处理114年陆中央政府总预算有关大陆委员会预算冻结专案报告案及5案决议以上5案均同意动之女居报告提报愿会5.处理审查114年陆中央政府总预算有关客家委员会预算冻结专案报告书面报告案及7案决议以上7案均同意动之女居报告提报愿会5月14日秘密会议逆内政部函为114年陆中央政府总预算决议减送该部主管第三项决议2.预算冻结专案报告请查照案等4案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2150.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2178.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
上午九時十二分至十時十分進行祕密會議決議以上四案均同意動之拟據報告提報用會報告事項一處理一百四十年度中央政府總預算有關內政部預算凍結書面報告案記十六案決定以上十六案書面報告均已送達預算得以動之拟據報告提報用會二邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況並被質詢報告事項即討論事項和兵巡大內政部部長劉思芳報告委員蘇巧慧等15人質詢由內政部部長劉思芳及相關人員答覆說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2179.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2207.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
決定一登基發言委員處部在場者外其餘均與發言完畢詢答結束二委員丁雪忠所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關機關於一周內另以書面答覆並複製本會討論事項一處理審查一百四次面錄中央政府總預算有關內政部預算凍結專案提報告書面報告案計三十八案決議討論事項一關乎三及關乎三十六案另定其繼續審查其餘個案均同意動之拟據報告提報院會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2210.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2227.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
謝謝 請問各位委員 上次會議議事錄有錯或遺漏之處沒有 好 謝謝 議事錄確定現在繼續進行本月議程報告事項 請宣讀邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況並被質詢 宣讀完畢現在介紹在場委員及列席官員委員部分 我們張志倫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2236.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2259.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
王美惠委員蘇巧惠委員黃婕委員李柏宜委員官員部分我們大陸委員會主任委員邱隨正主委以及我們海峽交流基金會吳豐山董事長好接下來我們先請大陸委員會邱主任委員隨正進行業務報告有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2268.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2291.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席 各位委員 吳董事長 各位同仁 各位女士 各位先生 大家早安 大家好承蒙各位委員會的邀請報告本會業務推動情形 請提出口頭報告我們另有詳細的報告 請大家著參進行指教那在近期工作重點 有六個重點第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2292.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2315.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
慎處中共對台威脅維護國家主權及台灣整體利益今年以來中共持續加大對台灣的軍事侵擾二月發動聯合戰備警巡的評次創新高四月進行聯合演訓及雷霆海峽雷霆2025A軍演令中共與對台工作會議兩會 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2317.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2334.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
及反分裂國家法20周年座談會重申反毒、反干涉、觸動和救調威脅採取非和平手段及依法懲毒4月份更增設所謂台獨打手幫凶舉報專線對台加強恫嚇同時也強調推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2340.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2355.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
兩岸各項的領域的交流企圖對台統戰滲透在國際場合中共動員親中的國家公開宣稱支持一中原則和平統一面對中共對台施加壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2358.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2363.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
政府秉持著四個堅持與四個不變積極落實賴總統所揭示國安統戰威脅17項因應策略堅定地維護國家主權及台灣整體利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2371.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2386.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第二 強化兩岸經貿風險管控推動健康有序對等交流進行國際地緣政治變化快速美中戰略競爭加劇及中國大陸下行對中國大陸經濟及兩岸經貿帶來新的挑戰本會秉持持續關注國際中國大陸經濟及兩岸經貿的情勢變化加強兩岸經貿交流風險管控 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2402.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2428.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
經貿政策並因應台商的需求提供相關的資訊及諮詢服務在不涉及政治前提下持續推動健康有序互惠對等的兩岸經貿交流為恢復兩岸觀光旅遊我方台旅會已正式向陸方海旅會提出溝通要求希望陸方盡速回應另依據旅運的需求我們也適時 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2430.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2444.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
增加了小山東客運航班數第三捍衛兩岸單一戶籍身份制度以確保人員往來交流次序兩岸單一戶籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2446.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2465.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
不僅在各自的法令有所明定更是幾十年來雙方建立起重要的交流規範與秩序的原則兩岸條例尊重國人對身份的選擇但不允許國人兼具兩岸雙重身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2467.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2494.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
堅持兩岸身份單一是保護國家安全確保台灣生存發展及兩岸人員往來管理的核心關鍵本會將持續向國人宣導正確的資訊並針對現職軍公教人員宣導拒絕及清查不得載入涉及領用中共護照申領中共身份證、定居證及居住證等身份證券 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2496.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2511.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
如此才能捍衛兩岸單一戶籍制度維護雙方人員往來的交流次序四 我們推出陸方落實協議執行以提高國人賦入風險的意識 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2514.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2537.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
本會自去年1月1日起,迄今4月30日以接獲民眾附入遭扣押、留置或盤查陳情的案件計102件其中帶入失聯或已遭陸方限制人身自由有89件遭陸方留置盤查有13件 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2539.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2564.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
另為提高國人附入安全風險意識本會持續提醒國人附入注意事項並鼓勵登陸國人附入港澳登陸系統以利政府及時提供協處五推動各級學校對中試讀增進我學子兩岸情勢之能為提升我青年學子 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2565.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2586.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
對國際兩岸議題及中國大陸情勢現況的了解與知能本會在遵截預算的情況下仍然持續辦理國內學生營隊活動補助大學開設課程充實本會官網台深專區的資訊並持續透過多元管道適時提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2587.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2610.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
審慎附路、就學、交流可能面對的風險與挑戰以保障我學子的安全六、觀測港澳情勢動能保障國人安全中共藉由國安法制融合策略與愛國者治理加深對港澳的掌控在各領域廣設國安紅線限縮自由人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2615.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2645.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們會密註觀測港澳的情勢持續進行風險管控並公布前往或過境港澳的注意事項提醒國人注意赴港澳的風險同時我們依據行政院所屬各機關人員赴港澳注意事項及國人在港澳緊按救助時事要點強化公務機密以及人身安全的保障在未來的工作有四個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2645.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2670.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第一 密駐中共對台動向堅定維護台海和平穩定當前中國大陸經濟受到美國關稅戰影響持續低迷社會火山民怨累積以及全球情勢複雜多變台美中互動發展等均可能影響中共對台政策及兩岸關係走向 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2672.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2691.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
本會將持續關注中國大陸的政經情勢中共對台動向及區域以及國際區域變化審慎評估及因應並反制中共對台統戰滲透及認知作戰強化全社會防衛韌性堅定維護台海和平穩定以及台灣民眾福祉二 關注國際經貿情勢審慎應對中共對台經貿作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2701.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2714.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
國際經貿局勢變化牽動兩岸關係發展中共操作軟硬拉打兩手策略持續擴大對台融合發展措施要求台商擴大投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2715.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2732.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
又吸台灣的人才竊取關鍵技術本會將本於強本固台風險管理的原則就兩岸經貿所涉及的人流物流金流技術進行必要的調整以強化台灣經濟安全應對中共對台經貿統戰及脅迫並基於 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2738.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2747.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
台灣優先立足台灣佈局全球的經貿戰略就台灣與中國大陸的經貿關係進行策略性的結構調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2748.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2776.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
三強化兩岸交流管理機制確保國家安全利益政府推動兩岸健康有序的交流立場不變本會將持續本於去統戰化去風險化的原則審查及管理相關的交流避免受中共滲透分化干預等衍生國安風險對於具有統戰性質的交流活動政府都會嚴格 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2779.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2803.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
也會依照兩岸的情勢發展變化納入審查考量滾動調整及強化中國大陸人民來台的風險管理機制另將會同相關機關共同研議公職人員附路交流的揭露制度以確保附路交流資訊公開化、透明化向國人負責以維護國家安全及整體利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2806.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2818.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
健全港澳交流管理規範維護國家安全及民眾福祉鑑於近年來港澳的情勢快速發展本會持續檢視港澳相關的法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2821.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2844.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
安全管理規範本會課陣研議對於港澳居民居留定居制度中增列長期居留的相關規定以增加國安觀察期以確保國家安全及社會的長治久安同時也會針對中共混淆國人對國家認同之威脅就國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2845.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2867.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
同胞申請中國大陸涉及身份認定的各種證件進行必要的宣導、清查及管理捷運,捍衛國家主權維持自由民主的生活方式及堅決反對台灣被中共併吞是台灣社會最大的共識政府將積極落實國安統戰威脅17項的因應策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2872.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2898.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們靠實力來達成和平的目標不會改變也同時呼籲陸方正視兩岸互不隸屬的現狀與事實以交流取代圍堵以對話取代對抗務實理性處理兩岸關係與我方共同承擔維護台海以及區域和平的責任以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2901.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2918.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好謝謝我們邱隨勝主委的報告再來有關海峽兩岸交流基金會的部分這我們尋往歷這我們吳豐昇董事長是來做這個打招呼但是報告的部分我們可以由副秘書長還是由董事長你要親自報告嗎這個我們可以由副 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2920.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2932.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那我們就有請吳董事長跟副秘書長請一併好不好謝謝主席、各位委員、魏巍、邱主任委員、各位女士、各位先生海基會的職責依照海基會的組織章程就有兩句話一個是說政府委託 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2948.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2961.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
處理兩岸人民交流所衍生的事務另外一句話叫並磨增進兩岸人民福祉那麼簡單的講就是交流跟對話那麼有關對話的部分從2016年開始因為對岸認為我國沒有接受九二共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2979.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2990.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以就片面中斷到今天第九年對話依然中斷我今天可以跟各位報告的是對話的管道中斷但是傳話的管道暢通這些傳話的人士有的是台商 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3008.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3033.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
有的是兩岸的專家學者有一部分是已經退休的我國政府以前跟兩岸事務有關的高官我對他們非常感謝因為和平 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3035.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3064.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
交流對話絕對是兩岸共同的最高的福祉所以我對於有朝一日可以恢復對話我保持審慎的樂觀那至於交流的部分從未中斷兩岸政府雖然不好但是人們要結婚的照樣結婚要賺錢的照樣賺錢所以交流事務 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3066.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3093.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
從來沒有中斷在過去三十二年來海基位處理過八百七十八萬多件因為教育所產生的事物那去年呢就多達三十萬四千多件那這一部分事物非常繁瑣那麼依照海基位的章程 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3095.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3118.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
本會的會內的事務是由秘書長綜合處理羅秘書長接受日本政府的邀請到日本去訪問事前也跟主席報告過主席也同意由代行秘書長職務的李寶文來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3122.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3146.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我現在可以不可以請主席 或者退下去以後報告可以的 謝謝我們吳鳳山董事長由於選往例啦 基本上這個備詢的部分跟報告的部分其實是由秘書處來負責好 這我想大家都知道那我們董事長願意說說兩句好事各位指名要我答覆 我就規規矩矩上來答覆 謝謝好 那我們謝謝吳董事長那麼剩下的報告部分我們請這個李寶文副秘書長進行補充說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3149.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3171.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
主席各位委員各位女士各位先生大家好那今天呈邀前來報告海基會業務概況非常的榮幸海基會受政府授權與委託處理兩岸人民往來相關事務保障民眾權益以上僅就去年113年度迄今業務執行相關情形則要提出報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3172.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3194.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
首先第一點 協處兩岸人身安全緊急事件對於國人在中國大陸發生各類人身緊急安全事件本會視案情提供諮詢與緊急應處建議必要時含情海協會協處或洽請各地台商協會就近提供協助因應本年度預算遭到三檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3195.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3214.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
自本年3月10日起紧急服务专线服务时间从24小时调整为每日上午8点30分至下午8点30分共计12小时而去年迄今发生了金门0214大陆无名船舶翻覆事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3214.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3229.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
以及澎湖基大進滿八十八號遭陸方留置案等兩岸漁事糾紛漁船碰撞以及豎起船難救助事件本會受主管機關主託通報陸方轉資加暑並協助處理後續事宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3234.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3263.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
同时也欲请陆方加强约制所属渔船勿再进入我方东沙环礁海域违法进行采捕今年中国大陆持续增修国安相关法令发布惩治台独22条意见严重威胁国人附陆之人身安全失联人数亦有增多迹象本会接获澄清之后积极协处寻人并配合政府政策加强宣导附陆风险 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3264.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3280.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
第二强化服务量能派员进驻金门马祖去年七月以及十月本会派员分别进驻金门与马祖的行政协调中心在地协处涉及两岸小三通衍生的相关事务 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3281.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3303.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
具体工作成果包含协储经小三通返台就医之紧急医疗后送事件以及小三通复航后陈姓陆客在金门旅游期间突发心肌梗塞的猝死事件以及马祖籍渔船蔡姓大陆船员意外落海亡故等善后事宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3305.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3319.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
第三,安排滞留大陆国人返台,对于离病或经济困顿长期滞留中国大陆之国人,若有返台意愿且身体健康状况符合适行条件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3321.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3335.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
本會與台商協會共同協助其返台也與台灣之民政、社政、醫療機關溝通協調就醫與後續收容事宜本年1月至4月協處置入國人返台共計34名 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3337.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3355.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
第四關懷與協助大陸台商子女學校學生自92年迄今本會與陸委會教育部共同推動探索台灣之美夏令營活動以及其他各式參訪活動增進大陸台商子女對家鄉的認識 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3357.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3373.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
為了擴大服務範疇113年首度嘗試辦理台商子女東令營的活動114年首度為國中高中階段的學子舉辦台商子女探索營那為了因應本會預算遭到刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3374.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3395.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
本年度將停辦台商子女夏令營活動並調整與台商子女的互動方式例如本年3月30日羅文嘉秘書長及出席東晚台校返台舉辦之九天八夜環島自行車騎行活動也參與師生一行的騎跑活動以及晚餐活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3396.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3411.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
本会也延续第14年鼓励在中国大陆台商子女学校就读之国人子女持续努力向学为三所台校每个应届毕业班级的优秀毕业生每班一人颁赠奖学金及奖状 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3413.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3435.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
第五加強互動聯繫協助台商永續經營國際情勢兩岸關係與中國大陸投資環境惡化等因素都對大陸台商造成衝擊本會持續關切台商投資經營情況與遭遇到的困難為本年度預算遭到刪減因此投資台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3436.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3446.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
參訪活動以及兩岸經貿講座台商諮詢日等相關活動有作相對應的刪減或某程度的停辦第六 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3447.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3463.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
韓信調整台商三節活動的規模與形態本年2月3日舉辦大陸台商春節聯誼活動邀請大陸台商與世界台商政府相關部會與工商團體代表等參與增進互動賴總統並親自出席與主持新春團拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3467.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3485.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
端午節以及中秋節活動本會將改裁小規模形式辦理讓台商參加本會活動更加彈性更加便利更加沒有壓力第七點因應陸方的作為協助降低對國人權益的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3486.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3501.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
自去年以來,陸方藉此不履行兩岸共打協議,選擇性向我方通報相關訊息,致使國人在路遺遭公安機關拘留或逮捕的情況,家屬皆未能接獲正式的通知,而查證無門。 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3502.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3521.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
例如社會關注的彰化賢州罵案以及一貫道四會盜親遭陸方限制人身自由等案本會接獲澄清後立即致函陸方促請保障當事人以及家屬的權益並函請相關機關各自循協議管道協處 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3522.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3550.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
另外减轻家属忧心本会视情况恰请各地台商协会协助核实讯息协助家属送零用金以及预含衣物等相关人道安排第八点持续办理两岸文书查验证及文书送达两岸公证书使用查证协议建立两岸文书制度化查验证机制是奠定两岸交流秩序的基本 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3551.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3576.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
基礎迄今运作顺畅此外海基会受政府嘱托办理两岸司法文书送达以保障两岸人民的权益第九协储陆配注销大陆户籍配合移民署的除籍专案本会自今年四月以来不论服务柜台或法律服务专线民众来会申办文书验证咨询办理程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3577.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3597.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
或來電詢問相關事宜的案件量均明顯增多本會除及時將民眾意見與建議向主管機關反映外並緊急動員人力加開服務專線以及服務櫃台也同時在官網、臉書專頁及相關平台上提供相關資訊給陸配朋友參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3600.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3627.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
部分人士因无有效入境大陆的证件比如说台胞症于其无法顺利申办或大通症于其遗失等等情况需要透过本会协调大陆有关部门航空公司等单位的协处以顺利入境大陆办理注销户籍本会自本年4月1日至5月15日总共协处73案类似的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3628.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3646.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
10.提升研析量能广纳多元观点国际政治格局变化快速本会扩大邀请学者专家探讨两岸关系重大议题研析情势发展并增加相关的研习活动汇整各方意见以提供政府决策参考 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3647.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3661.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
第十一接待各界訪兵增進兩岸事務認識為增進各界對兩岸事務的認識本會主動致函國內各大專院校鼓勵各界組團參訪海基會113年1月至114年5月15日共計接待25團766人次訪兵的反應皆為良好 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3671.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3680.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
兩岸關係持續受到國際社會高度關注駐台使節國內外專家學者陸續來會參訪就兩岸及區域情勢等相關議題交流意見本會皆詳加說明為台灣爭取國際支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3687.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3706.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
最後本會受政府委託授權處理兩岸人民往來相關事務雖然陸方片面中斷兩岸制度化溝通聯繫管道本會仍依據兩岸相關協議持續就個案去函海協會及中國大陸相關部門為民眾提供必要協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3708.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3730.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
賴總統在就職演說國慶文告中皆多次強調推動兩岸對等健康有序的交流是我們不變的承諾這也是本會執行工作的方向與目標為了促進兩岸雙向對等健康有序的交流本會也將持續精進服務功能保障民眾的權益以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3731.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3760.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
好 我們謝謝李副秘書長的報告現在進行詢答委員諮詢前 遠利做幾點宣告第一 每位委員發言時間本會委員6分鐘必要時得延長1分鐘非本會委員5分鐘我們上午10點30分截止發言登記這個臨時提案部分截止提出時間為11點與本會委員詢問完畢後處理請問各位同仁有沒有意見沒有好 那我們就照這樣處理好 謝謝那現在進行詢答我們請登記第一位的蘇巧慧委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3770.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3773.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
好謝謝主席我們請邱主委邱主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3778.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3807.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
主委好主委好主委我想跟你討論一下最近發生的事情就是近期在台北高雄都有發生中國直播組在校園附近開直播並且長時間拍攝學生的狀態如果你在抖音上面搜尋台灣小學生我們打這五個字下去其實會有很多東西跳出來你看這個最後面一個就是打了這個關鍵字以後直接在app上面抖音上面可以出現的狀況那其他是媒體已經披露的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3807.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3834.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這可以說是相當的多而且最重要的是小朋友都沒有受到馬賽克的保護所以如果你要辨識身份如果你有心人士要辨識身份可以說是非常容易那甚至這些直播不只在學校附近還跟著孩子就直接到了安親班這樣的狀況請問陸委會你這邊有掌握嗎這是單一的人士單一定點嗎還是一個什麼狀況數量大概有多少你們有了解了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3835.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3850.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
謝謝委員我想只有兩個層面第一個是這個抖音網路平台的問題第二個就是這個拍攝的這個活動在學校周遭我先問你大概數量有多少你有掌握了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3850.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3855.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們遇到有這些應該有跟你反應過了有 我們就積極反應給我們的教育部還有我們的治安單位要查查以保護學生校園的安寧數量我們是因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3868.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3896.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
至少不是單一事件嘛對不對絕對不是啦到處都有了嘛也不是單一個人嘛因為出現在非常多的頻道上面這應該陸委會也有掌握吧沒有錯吧對我們有掌握而且立即查辦所以不是單一事件不是單一人事甚至不是抖音上面的單一頻道那這樣的話請問涉案人士的身份你們有掌握了嗎他大概都是什麼樣子的人知道了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3897.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3922.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
如果同仁比較清楚可以同仁回答沒有關係我想我們都有給治安單位那這個比較完整的調查報告應該要由治安單位來回覆好那就我們這邊掌握到的資料其實第一個的話在高雄的部分已經查查看到第一個這個拍攝的狀況是這個拍攝的女生是從中國來的來台已經二十多年已經取得身份證了 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3922.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3928.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那因為呢看起來他就是一個生活的分享啊單純開直播賣生活雜貨分享生活所以警方已經到女子家中訪查已經給他口頭勸告了嘛因為現在也還不知道是什麼狀況那另外台北的案件是許淑華議員已經接獲消息後報案了所以調查中 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3942.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3962.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
沒有錯陸委會主委您剛剛的反應是這個事件當中現在在處理的程序也就是說因為他也只是在拍影像拍直播對他現在第一個他有可能狀況是只要他沒有經過家長的同意拍攝未成年人他基本上就是觸犯個資了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3963.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3987.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
甚至是兒少法所以他有觸法的嫌疑所以如果是單純的這樣的事件確實應該是要由警方來調查沒有錯主委剛剛的回答是對的所以現在在這個階段其實高雄也是警方介入台北的話也是議員已經去跟警方系統報備了嘛報案了嘛好可是我現在就是進入到你看我的PPT上面的第二層次甚至第三層次 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3988.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4002.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
主委我要提醒如果拍攝者是中國人目前也不是只有單一頻道那他的身份很顯然比較敏感啊那我們是不是要開始有進一步的了解如果這麼數量是多的的話那在這個短時間內出現這麼多的拍攝學校周圍的兒童那他是不是有什麼目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4010.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4032.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那尤其為什麼又是學校學校如果根據我們的災害防救體系的話它其實是我們的避難收容場所所以大量的直播攝影這會不會又是另外一個國安疑慮呢所以我覺得陸委會如果有這個敏感度的話去了解這個事件我想應該是非常合理的主委你的看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4033.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4059.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
謝謝委員 我們也是跟委員一樣的想法跟做法我們除了提供給教育部、治安單位了解對學生、兒少的這個侵犯對 我們現在的這個層次嘛 個案嘛 對啊因為每個學校它扮演著重要的角色而且很多都是抄中國大陸口音那當然有些說是陸配我們也會跟陸配網紅 我們熟識的我們呼籲他們不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4062.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4075.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這個影響兒少的相關法規或影響校園安寧你這樣的去拍他們那學生師生都會心生恐懼所以你跟他討論的其實沒有講到什麼中國怎麼樣中共怎麼樣你其實就是說你這樣會打擾到小朋友喔而且是會有妨礙個資法兒少法你也是這樣講而已嘛對不對此外我們都有把相關的這個影片傳給我們的安全單位好去查查 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4086.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4102.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
主委其實我今天用這個例子不但是跟您再次的在質詢台與備詢台之間提供這樣的消息並且要求陸委會提供提高敏感度之外其實我也必須要說用這個例子我們可以看得到其實中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4103.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4131.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
中共如果現在有系統有新的要來蒐集台灣的各種資訊用各種方法來蒐集各種資訊其實這個就是可以是一個例子因為你其實它這個有統戰嗎你不知道啊它是情收嗎你知道嗎你也不知道啊它有下指令叫這一些特定網紅從日常的直播改為去蒐集台灣的情資嗎可能甚至也沒有喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4132.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4136.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
他沒有 他不需要下指令他只要做一個動作就好他只要餵流量 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4137.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4163.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
他只要讓拍攝這種影片類型的人的流量可以突然竄高那這些網紅 這些網路的使用者他就說 唉唷 最近口耳相傳之間拍攝某一種類型就好像提高網路流量欸那就可以幫我帶貨啊他根本不用接收指令他就只要用流量的部分就可以竄起來這就是手法啊 對不對所以中國會這樣做那我們有什麼反制的動作嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4166.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4195.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我想我們一定要加強校園安全的維護那像這樣的一種侵入式的這種拍攝我想很多學校都反映學生都很惶恐那剛剛委員講了好幾個層次的國家安全每個層次我們都要全面的維護它對於不管是國家安全的層次對於國家重要基礎設施的維護以及它有可能是為了更施力 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4195.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4218.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
就是帶流量 種種的那我想這是必要進行比較大規模的我的意思其實在這裡剛剛這樣一系列的討論下來就是說中國的手法其實它不斷的翻新它甚至不用用跟你講國家民族大義我要統一台灣它只要給你餵流量它就可以得到它想要的政治目的了 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4218.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4246.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那反過來我們其實也應該可以有多種不同的方式來告訴人民應該要怎麼保護自己比如說如果在這邊你要跟他說這個就是中國網紅在幫中國刺探情報大家可能覺得說蛤 是嗎好像一時間沒有辦法接受可是反過來你告訴這些家長說你如果沒有在看到這種可疑人士拍攝孩子的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4247.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4263.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
你把他制止而且大家守望相助的互相看互相制止你的孩子就有可能是為馬賽克的照片沒有馬賽克的照片流傳在網路上面你的孩子的安全可能受到威脅我覺得所有的家長一定會警惕啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4265.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4283.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
所有的家長一定會警惕啊網紅可以為了流量要賣東西而做出有政治目的的狀況其實台灣人民也可以用各種的方式學習保護自己不只是保護國家的安全也是保護個人的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4283.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4290.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我覺得陸委會的策略方式和跟人民的溝通狀況不但應該更積極而且要更多元這是我今天質詢的目的不曉得主委認同嗎非常感謝委員的提醒我們會來全力朝這個方向來做不過我也跟委員報告我覺得在台灣生活的大部分的陸配網紅都是合法的而且他甚至不知道他做這件事情有什麼狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4311.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4321.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
不過每一個個案都很重要我們都會一一來查處你甚至對如果主委提醒的很對所以如果在這樣的狀況下甚至我們應該讓這一些使用網路的網紅們了解說啊你這個流量突然變高了可能是因為有什麼狀況你要小心喔讓他們也有這個知識因為他們可能也不想做這件事情啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4334.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4354.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
對不對所以我覺得這有好幾個層次的部分所以我再次的提醒我的結論是陸委會要跟全國民眾不分是哪裡來的不分是在這裡住多久的都應該要有各種多元不同的資訊傳遞保護國家以及個人的安全這是我今天質詢的主旨這樣謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝 謝謝蘇喬惠委員下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4369.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4373.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請邱主委邱主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4379.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4400.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
政委好好主委好那今天是有關於陸委會跟海基會的質詢那首先我們其實賴清德總統就職520港版一周年那也很感謝主委這一年來的辛苦那其實人民最重視的就是現在不管是兩岸關係台灣的國際情勢以及關稅等等的相關問題所以當然賴清德總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4401.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4413.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
日值滿一年的就職演說我們都非常重視那我相信主委應該有全程聽完賴清德就職週年的談話那我想要請教主委這邊請問賴清德520滿週年的這個演講針對兩岸的論述是什麼可不可以請主委稍微簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4420.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4441.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我想520前夕他也接受很多媒體的採訪那就就職演說那一天就職演說的內容那個週年的談話那我們陸委會正在跟各部會積極的在落實17項國安威脅的因應策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4442.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4461.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那這對我們來說是現在重中之重的事那我們不管是研修相關的這些法律法治的作業或者是積極的強化我們的整個這個管理機制我們都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4463.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4486.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
強化同時也積極的在宣導如何未來的交流能夠回歸專業化單純化去風險化去統戰化這個都是我們努力的方向那也謝謝委員當然總統在答覆記者的時候也有提到只要對等尊嚴台灣樂意與中國大陸進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4489.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4511.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
交流合作我們一直長期就是說在對等尊嚴兩岸可以進行健康有序的對話與交流這些承諾我們沒有改變好謝謝主委可是不好意思您的看法跟我手上拿到這一份資料完全不一致其實賴清德總統在520的就職演說針對兩岸的問題是隻字未提 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4515.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4535.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以這點我必須要跟主委報告所以現在很多國人都在關心我覺得台灣社會以及台灣民眾以及我們國際友人希望看到的是賴清澤總統在520就職演說的時候他對兩岸的關係他的見解是什麼而不是因為這個是非常重要其他人不一定會看賴清澤總統在其他內容的一些說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4536.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4559.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
所以在這邊很多專家寫者有提出來相關的問題是不是賴清德總統他是想要改變現狀就是他過去不管是這個蔡英文總統或以德輝總統他們的想法其實賴清德是想要改變的那第二個有很多人在講說很多專家寫者講說是不是賴清德總統有受到國外的一些壓力說請他在這個就職演說的時候不要去講這樣的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4560.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4583.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那就你這邊身為這個陸委會的主委你一定有給他相關的建議那你給他什麼樣的建議他為何在520就職演說的時候對兩岸關係置之未提是不是可以請你再強加說明一下是 跟委員報告反而跟委員所說的改變現狀剛好是完全不一樣我們反而是要堅定的維護台海和平穩定的現狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4585.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4604.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那我們在過去已經強調所以艾總統有沒有接受到國外的指示比如美國的指示因為現在大家知道美國跟中國的關稅已經談下來了現在美國只有跟兩個國家談好關稅政策一個是英國 一個是中國那是不是因為這樣子有受到美國的壓力請主委回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4605.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4615.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
委員的說法我是沒有 我們入委會內啦 我們是沒有感受到啦那你們當時有提說請總統不要對兩岸發聲 提出看法嗎在總統就職演說的時候 你們有沒有提供相關的資料給總統那他最後是選擇不談論相關的議題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4625.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4651.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我要問這個就是我剛有提到如果總統在五二零就職演說知識未提如何讓我們的友國讓我們台灣人民了解這個我們的台灣未來的走向到底是什麼方向我想委員剛剛有說他並不是知識未提那他提了什麼十七項國安的這個因應策略的落實他沒有在就職演說的週年提這段話 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4654.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4660.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
這個我覺得他在回答記者有提到了之前接受媒體採訪也有非常完整的這個兩岸的這個思考跟架構而且從去年520以來都 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4679.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4708.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
都 這個是很完整的 越來越完整所以好 那我再簡單請教主委所以您針對賴清德總統在520就職周年談話 隻字未提兩岸關係沒有隻字未提 是帶過去的那提了什麼 提了什麼這裡面就是沒有提啊就六十四七項的國安立政令他沒有寫在裡面啊 主委這個白紙黑字我們一字一句都有看 都是沒有提所以您認為他這樣的說法您是 您身為幕僚也身為幕委會的主委您是覺得認同的還是覺得應該他未來要再多加敘述 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4709.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4733.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我想我們國家因應國內外的局勢相當多的問題我想兩岸的問題他過去已經談論很多那也蠻完整的具體架構大家也都很清楚那我想我們尊重他對於議題的選擇不過就兩岸的重點我想我們國人都很關注我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4735.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4762.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我們整個國安團隊也都很關注好 謝謝主委那我希望說未來這些事情我還是我要重申針對我們國際的友人以及我們台灣的國人兩岸關係以及和平穩定我覺得對台灣國人很重要那我們希望說既然總統選擇的沒有知識未提我也希望說未來我們陸委會這邊一定要提供正確我相信是正確的資訊以及到底要不要提由總統自己來做決定好 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4763.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4787.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
第二個我想要請教去年520到現在滿一周年請問主委對兩岸的關係認為這一年是更好還是更不好以及我們過去一年兩岸我們所謂官方的溝通跟非官方的溝通不管是我們陸委會跟海基會我們的溝通的層級到哪裡針對司法互助我覺得人民最重要的是司法互助兩岸共打犯罪以及最重要的詐騙問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4789.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4804.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我們台灣人最重視的這些問題我們陸委會跟海救已經過了一年了所以我想要請主委是不是簡單說明一下這些東西現在是不是有在進行還是現在因為兩岸是這個完全沒辦法溝通的情況下沒有辦法進行這樣的事情請主委回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4805.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4822.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
好 謝謝 我想兩岸關係的互動是雙方共同的責任那也許大家會覺得最近兩岸關係緊張這是我下一個問題海海的不安但是我要強調這個都是由於中國大陸對於我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4824.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4843.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
複合性的施壓而且步步進逼極限施壓不管是軍機間擾台外交打壓經濟脅迫社會滲透法律戰以及一連串的認知作戰灰色地帶侵擾滲透分化無所不在無口不入這些所造成對 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4844.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4862.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
整個區域跟台海不安以及整體兩岸關係緊張的根本因素主委好像沒有回答我的問題所以當然本席認為也是我們一定台灣一定要捍衛國家主權維持自由民主的生活方式所以下一題就是我要請教主委就是針對國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4863.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4882.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
但我們都想要兩岸要和平不要發生戰爭可是根據外交事務的期刊Foreign Affairs以及最近美國有開一個這個公聽會針對2027年這個有可能大陸會武力犯台那武力犯台的方式可能會第一個登陸台灣第二個或者是Blockade就是封鎖台灣或是算是經濟上 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4883.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4910.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
經濟上或者是這個網路上的攻擊對這些東西因為不好意思在總統在就職演說沒有提到相關任何的內容請問列委會這邊有沒有跟總統討論或是跟國安單位討論如果能講就可以講如何防範降低風險以及降低國人對這個兩岸緊張情勢升溫的風險的這個考量謝謝委員長我想我們還是本於初衷在對等尊嚴是 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4911.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4936.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
能夠跟中國大陸來進行對話交流一直是我們兩岸政策的主軸沒有改變我們也希望對岸能夠正視中華民國存在的客觀事實不時面對兩岸問題在對等尊嚴我們來恢復各種有意義的交流讓兩岸關係能夠良性互動 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4937.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4964.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那同時面對中國大陸的極限施壓我們雖然對和平是堅持的總統也說也說了很多這方面我們如何維護我們的國家安全我們的社會安定人民的福祉還是要靠我們自己就是落實總統所揭示的和平四大支柱行動方案也就是我們現在在全面落實14項的因應策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4964.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4982.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好謝謝主委沒錯台灣是要保護自己沒錯那我也其實為什麼今天會問這麼多問題其實台灣不只要靠自己也要靠國際社會上比如說我們的鄰國或是美國相關歐洲相關的協助來保護台灣所以是這點我是非常認同主委那最後我是不是可以請這個我們這個海基會進來的吳董事長謝謝吳董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4995.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5022.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
好吳董事長謝謝吳董事長剛剛就是這一年來對這個海基會的這個協助跟奉獻那剛剛有聽到你大概的說明其實你也講得非常清楚其實現在是對話是完全的這個中斷那這個交流其實是一直不斷的在努力還在繼續努力的部分那剛剛你在講對話的部分你用四個字來形容叫做審慎樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5024.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5039.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
好那就是說是不是說本席這邊可以請你簡單除了審慎樂觀以外那未來兩岸的對話除了審慎樂觀以外有沒有其他你這邊想要來講的部分是不是可以請你簡單除了審慎樂觀以外再給我們一些其他的建議我的看法是這樣子啊就中華民國而言和平絕對是我們這個國家最核心的利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5054.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5075.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
可是對中華人民共和國難道不是嗎戰爭真的是沒有贏家那麼對岸現在內政問題焦頭爛額一個友善的台灣對他比較好還是一個敵對的台灣對他比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5083.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5109.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那麼在過去幾年來台海和平航行已經變成舉世關切的共同問題所以我認為北京的領導人只要真正的考慮他們的國家利益他們應該還是希望和平我特別注意到 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5111.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5133.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
現在對岸的領導人習近平主席跟我們賴總統之間其實很難得有一個交集兩個人都公開講希望兩岸和平發展這是歷史的機遇我的審慎的管將來好 董事長結束了嗎好 謝謝董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5140.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5145.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
好 謝謝張志倫委員的諮詢下一位我們請王美惠委員諮詢主席我們請邱子維邱子維有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5162.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5183.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
黃委員 早上好 主委 早上主委 在最近的時候我們教育部補充有說我們國際的交流不一定要限制於中國但是在這個規定當中 我們兩岸交流一定要有健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5187.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5194.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
覺得好感,才可以有這個交流,但是中國的政府根本沒有政策,沒有健康,我們要如何去有交流在這個規定當中,我們海峽論壇 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5205.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5213.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
因有利空空丟你半個現在已經16年了你們以前是說我們不要去參加但是最近你們是常常政府說不要去喔這是強烈的說不要去不要因尊因奇來主委你解說現在的轉變是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5234.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5255.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
跟委員報告,謝謝委員的質詢,這有關於海峽論壇那麼我們觀察那麼久,海峽論壇是中國大陸對台統戰的一個平台用來展現它對台統戰的成果,是一種大交流、大合作的一個大平台每次參加的人數都非常的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5257.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5282.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
不過都在中國大陸設定的整個統戰活動裡面去展現它統戰的成果這個對我們國人負責去參加這個統戰平台我們是採取一種勸阻不要去所以我們中央官員是完全禁止那地方官員呢地方政府呢我們也評估很多因為我們過去就說評估很多阿公會去那裡幹啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5286.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5311.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
因為我們有下鄉去跟地方政府溝通有些地方政府跟我說過去我們那個不樂見地方政府去講得太模糊了可不可以具體一點那事實上我們從我們的交流應該要去統戰化這種你平時可以去正常健康有序的交流但是不要在人家設定一個統戰的平台去 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5311.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5341.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
去幫人家做統戰的這種盆場反而會陷入到統戰的陷阱風險也比較多所以我們就希望他們不要去參加這個海峽論壇除了他自己政務人員不要前往他所屬的這些事業單位或是所屬的公務人員地方政府決定的也希望他們不要核准他們去 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5341.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5346.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
主委 本席跟你談到這件問題的時候 澳國的銀行要去辦了 到你沒錢為止你地方的政府有要去參加 你的帳戶有多少人 有對一個官司要去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5360.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5367.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
各位阿姨報告,截至目前為止,並沒有收到地方政府的申請也跟委員報告 阿姨,最近到現在都沒有,我們事務一旦,後果會看什麼人會去 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5375.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5377.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
跟委員報告其實大家去參加這個海峽論壇它就是一個統戰的平台也經常口惠而實不至那使我們參加的人都去那邊沒有什麼失意而且相關的這些統戰的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5406.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5411.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
90%到今天的保險位置,這間也沒有我們就拭目以待,讓他想我什麼人出隊去參加如果他有提出,我們也會提高,跟他提醒風險會勸阻他,如果他執意要去,我們還有一套規勸如果你一定要去的話他如果沒有要聽你的規勸,我一定不會來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5430.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5435.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
是啊,我們就會跟他講啊是啊,那是就是標示也有人會去啊是嘛,主委其實目前為止是沒有啦因為你說的,這個時間還要辦人要申請還要付耶所以你剛才的回答也有人會去啦是,有可能這樣我們要看什麼人會去啦不用去鳳凰寨,不用去台灣要去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5460.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5471.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那既然站好好,保護我寬寬的,站大,站穩,站穩,真漂亮啦!常常都在找台灣人,來主委,在這裡本身就跟你,我們事務委員會落尾,到目前為止,你說沒有, |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5480.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5485.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
本來我們要看什麼人會去 因為如果過了 你要不要教啊在這裡本來要跟你說 上禮拜五的十三的時候有一個新聞很大的說沙縣小吃啦 來台灣開到九間店啦但是在這個過程當中 開店開很多 以前也沒開過 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5506.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5511.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
他不說這間店是國台辦出來開記者會說讚的呢主委你覺得這件事我知道沙縣小吃在中國大陸都有類似的沒有啦我現在要問說來台灣開記者會的時候國台辦說因為他開記者會啦說了算啦這有可能未來是痛讚嗎啦雖然你罵我罵 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5536.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5540.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
全都來申請台灣會做生意啦未來有可能發生什麼事嗎?我們要去議訪咧!人家發生的事... 問你了解是 問你那個了解 感謝委員提醒我有三線小吃... 我覺得我來你問這樣你還想說不知道什麼事不知道會發生什麼 你還聽不懂我你這個... |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5564.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5574.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
會否引起嚴重損失我們現在有了解他還是依法設立的當然啦,我剛才說依法設立啦有各種統戰或是不當的行為那我們也會依法查處截至目前為止還沒有發現任何違法的事情因為他說一個很嚴重的就是說兩岸一家會煙火共鳴 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5593.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5605.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
主委,我們這都要去最終去注意,本身來說,你應該做為陸委會的主委,應該對政客,大家也要了解說實在,所有的單位,你們這單位就是要保護台灣的生存內容,這是很嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5618.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5627.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
主委,在這幾個星期,你有說到說,啊,我們武統藝人的時候,開始要檢舉處理啦檢舉在我們兩岸條例裡面的三十三條之一的處罰裡面,我感覺說,看來看去,我們從來就不罵藝人 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5643.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5658.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
出發過啦,我們都會想說,藝人在這裡,一生不由己,有的藝人是太過後期了在這個過程當中,這個藝人,說到他連同台灣都沒有,他在中國,要選擇中國的好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5667.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5672.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
像這個我們未來,我們真的要去加強這裡的兩岸條例法啦在這裡面,很多立委都提案過,都退很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5681.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5709.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
嚴若我要問主委是您33條之一之二您如何去處理來 回答一下感謝委員我們已經跟文化部合組這個行政這個查處小組那麼正在進行必要的查處作為我們最主要也是要跟藝人你們為什麼會在一個特定的時刻全體一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5712.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5729.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這個發布這個傷害台灣的言論或者是附和中共這個軍演的這些貼文那這個確實不是自發的行為我們要了解背後真正的事實是什麼再來依法裁處處分主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5731.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5737.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
硬硬喔 你們的看法要顧緊啦日本社所了解喔 我覺得太過敏了 要顧緊處理啦像你們的副主委說的 梁文傑說的說我們硬硬 如果發 這些藝人 會說我們會去挽回的 所以他們也不敢做啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5757.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5760.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
你如果不想犯不想衝啊,他什麼也要做,國家賣去,他還有天理順利,他才會賣,所以主委,這是怎樣,本身說到這個才分開,一個國家一個民族的老人,是非常不簡單,多少人拋命, |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5778.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5783.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
現在有經濟,自由的國家,像剛才說的,川普說的統一和平,他是要說中美的關稅,你認為他敢說這些?川普是空空笑笑的,誰是要變什麼就我做變什麼,你認為? |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5797.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5800.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這部份是針對中美經貿問題沒有涉及台灣美國國務院也正式說明這個跟台灣沒有關係是美中談判經貿的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5818.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5820.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所以我也覺得很奇怪,因為美國跟中國不是好朋友,不是朋友,他們無緣無故去做生台灣的混亂,所以他是毛環製造者,他是做生理人的總統, |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5838.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5853.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
什麼人對有利益的一個要處理啦所以本席在這裡說你們有什麼事情都有可能發生本席跟你說的這幾件你們要上席去了解上席處理好好尤其我們的人民法33條之一之二要果斤契存 以上好 感謝委員好 謝謝下一位我們請李博義委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5873.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5875.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
請邱主委邱主委有請林委員好主委辛苦我們去年在內政委員會在審查陸委會預算的時候我相信不管是執政黨委員或者是陸委會都費盡心力希望可以捍衛陸委會的預算因為試射我們對中國的這些事務還有對中國的這些研判等等的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5902.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5912.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
在這邊今天正常質詢我想要請問主委在內政委員會被刪除3200萬但是最後在委員會被刪除8800萬在院會被刪除8800萬這樣是算8800萬還是1億2最後送出來的結果是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5923.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5941.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我想我們整個預算過去在內政委員會內政三千兩百萬然後去到議員會又八千八這樣是加起來還是這樣是一億二還是八千八影響到入委會的預算我想是快要兩億元就是被刪除的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5943.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5960.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那麼快要將近兩億元就是說還有在院會的還有兩億是包含給海基會的七千萬的補助啦那所以說這樣我剛剛這樣的問題就是我們要共三減的是一億九千四百十八萬這是創下 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5961.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5985.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
如果會成立以來有什麼很難做的有影響到哪一些業務剛開始我們感謝上個禮拜一委員有協助我們解凍解凍跟刪不一樣我們先把刪的講出來刪的部分包括業務費就被刪掉這個八千多萬那講補助是一億 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5986.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6012.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
零七百多萬這個都是不可媒體宣傳費當然這個也是被刪除很多媒體宣傳費我們原本正常的大樓維持費水電費我們原本是預計七月份以後就無以為繼不過所幸有這個解凍預算讓我們我現在沒有跟你講解凍解凍國民黨全部朝思逃逸都沒有來我現在跟你講刪除刪除的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6015.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6034.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
這個沒宣費它影響到什麼?影響到剛剛很多委員質詢的內容包含抖音裡面出現的形態我現在整理成兩種好了第一種剛剛講的不斷有陸配或不斷有帶貨的網紅出現這些武統台灣的言論等等的其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6035.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6055.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我們這樣看起來都是背後一套公式來鼓勵這些網紅然後衝流量衝了流量之後就是一種認知作戰那有了這些衝流量那他們就鼓勵然後接下來另外有這些小學生在校園外面拍小學生的等等的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6056.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6075.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
陸委會如果沒有相關的這些宣傳的費用我們怎麼樣讓國人知道現在又發生什麼事現在又在習哪一些觀念那現在可能又要教小學生跳什麼舞然後其實背後又蘊藏哪一些他們想要做這些認知作戰的東西我覺得陸委會這一方面要非常非常敏感 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6076.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6092.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
謝謝委員我們雖然預算被刪除很多特別是我們的媒宣所以我們自己我們同仁自己要自己拍短短影音的影片來做宣傳主委你有沒有用抖音我沒有我們政府機關人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6093.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6110.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
會觀察但是我們不能使用一定要觀察啦因為我們看到大量的這些認知作戰的內容有時候想要舉報給政府單位如果我說我沒有這個東西我沒有這個軟體我沒有辦法看其實你永遠不知道他們在做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6110.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6125.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所以我們都很關注那我要跟委員報告截至目前為止抖音它有嚴重的治安還有收集民眾各自的問題所以我們政府機關是被我們是沒有在用 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6126.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6141.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
其實在校園內部也在宣導校園內部的設備網路都不可以使用TikTok只不過現在民眾還是可以透過他網路下載APP來使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6142.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6155.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
不過整體而言抖音並沒有合法落地這也是我們要有效監管雖然沒有合法落地但是由於民眾可以自己下載這個確實在我們查處抖音相關的問題當中我們還缺乏一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6162.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6186.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
法律其實不只抖音齁那其實包含臉書臉書齁在最近被披露以前的臉書的一個前執行長齁他出了一本書那裡面就講到臉書跟中共的關係當貼文瀏覽超過一萬次會自動提交總編輯進行人工審查當六四或者是有一些特定時機的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6188.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6206.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
臉書其實在中國它就是有一些東西就會禁止的那尤其在香港愚上革命的時候臉書也發揮了很多的這些暗黑的功能所以台灣面臨的其實不只抖音不只臉書各方面的這些認知作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6207.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6229.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
或者是隱藏台灣民主訊息的這些機制非常多那陸委會雖然在預算被刪除很多的情況下那還是要很努力的去讓國人知道目前這些統戰還有這些認知作戰的這些型態到底有多多我今天其實還整理了包含藝人藝人其實我們的藝人去到那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6231.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6249.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
被公式化必須要做出某一些言論的時候其實我們都都很心痛啦那我們都覺得這些演藝或文化的交流不應該有這些政治但是都已經被要求了那我們其實不管是歌迷或者是政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6249.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6272.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
很多都是採取包容都知道啊你去到那裡那你就是被強迫做這些事嘛那還是有畫一些紅線這個我在這邊表示支持但是我們最大的還是包容知道其實我們的藝人是被要求做這些事啦那紅線也要畫好我們確實啊我們跟這個文化部的行政查處小組啊那除了管理之外我們也要關懷第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6275.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6294.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
被政治要求表態這是被嘛這是被不是他主張這是被嘛對很可能是這樣而且或是經紀公司要求等等的那另外我們也了解這個不是一人自己因為以我們台灣人啊這個飲水思源的善良本質啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6294.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6312.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
不會去糟蹋當年在台灣這塊土地支持培養他們的這些親友或是支持者所以去到大陸為什麼會如此的反常來傷害自己國家的主權還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6315.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6337.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
這個呼應對台軍演這個是我們也在懷疑所以我們才會跟文化部要組一個行政查處的一個小組一方面管理二方面提醒風險三方面就是關懷有可能齁其實他們去到那裡去到中國可能要在某一個城市開演唱會的時候有一些申請的流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6338.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6362.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那這些申請的流程裡面可能就必須要簽署一些認同書啊這也是備啊是,所以我們理解這我們要非常清楚那當然最好我想基於保護這些藝人我們也不可能拿到這些可能有簽署哪一些認同書等等的最後跟主委探討一個問題主委的觀念非常好也突然打醒了很多這些宗教交流的這些人士 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6364.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6382.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
宗教交流中國的宗教中國的廟宇是哪一個他們的哪一個單位在管控主委我想是他們統戰部下轄的這個這個這個統戰部之外我知道的還有一些他中國是沒有信仰 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6383.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6398.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那所以他的廟其實都是各地方政府的觀光旅遊單位有可能觀光旅遊單位觀光旅遊單位他來到台灣的時候可能是申請到統戰部的這些經費來到台灣做交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6399.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6417.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
而這些中國的這些廟宇來到台灣的人士跟台灣的廟宇去到中國交流的人士是不一樣的喔台灣的廟宇去到中國的人士大家都知道這個廟宇很多都是關心信仰或者是地方人士真的是這些組成的中國是誰組成的 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6418.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6440.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我想因為中國大陸他們是包括共產黨他們是無神論他們對於宗教估計說他是這個壓迫人民的鴉片所以他們對宗教的管理是放在統戰部裡面所以他派的這個廟的主委是統戰部派的 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6440.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6462.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
對就是說他在從事兩岸的宗教交流很可能就基於統戰的因素那所以這個跟我們台灣有信仰的自由不同中國大陸是沒有信仰自由剛剛海基會說我們四位這個一貫道的道卿還被他們查扣還沒回來用刑法來起訴判刑已經起訴判刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6463.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6481.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
所以這個都是讓我們覺得兩岸的這個宗教交流固然我們應該推動因為畢竟台灣是一個宗教自由的國家那中國大陸就不是所以這個也就是我們希望未來的宗教交流要專業性不要賦予它 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6482.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6503.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
統戰的任務 這樣講好了啦 如果我們跟他一樣的話我們某個廟的主委就是陸委會指派你變成主委去中國交流在台灣不可能發生啦 不可能嘛但是你現在在台灣看到來宗教交流的某一個主委他有可能就是中國統戰部任命你為某一個廟的主委來台灣做這些宗教的交流 是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6503.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6529.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
跟委員報告,當然我們願意促進兩岸的宗教專業性的交流如果說它沒有政治因素或是沒有統戰的因素,純粹就是說對宗教的比如說儀軌,包括整個他們的教義或是對於宗教的儀式,這方面專業的交流我們都尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6530.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6545.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
而不是說用統戰部台辦的人混進來做交流或是在一直在執行他們是主神我們是分離在台灣進行各方面的這些遶境而且各縣市的遶境這種遶境活動在中國也不常見 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6548.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6563.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
為什麼都在台灣遶境連神的世界都要矮化我們所以我們要非常的關注他們透過宗教交流進行這方面的統戰作為這是我們要排除但是對於宗教交流專業交流我時間到了連宗教都要統戰我們這句話謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝李博士委員下一個我們請張宏祿召委諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6587.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6611.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我請主委邱主委有請政委好主委我們陸委會上週有首度建議地方政府勿出席並建議地方政府不予核准所屬人員出席海峽論壇這一個但去年喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6614.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6623.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
去年我們態度是不樂見殘餘那今年的呢是想不與何準請問這有什麼特別的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6625.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6645.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
謝謝委員跟委員報告事實上我們也跟地方政府有不少的交換意見他說你不樂見是什麼意思其實我們從海峽論壇的立場政府的立場跟原則還蠻一致性的就是中央是禁止 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6645.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6660.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
地方是不樂見事實上我們也常常跟地方政府講說去海峽論壇的一些風險不過我們很多地方政府那個時候還是對海峽論壇有一些憧憬認為他們會事出利多事實上這幾年下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6661.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6680.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
大部分是口惠而事不至所以地方政府也漸漸少去了那我們也跟他說他就是一個統戰的大平台啦他會力邀你去那很多人認為在這個場合他的鄉親他的選民也不讓他去所以來請我們陸委你修清楚一點你到底要我們怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6681.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6703.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那如果是這樣我們從開始依照17條我們來強化我們這個反滲透反統戰我們希望交流都應該去統戰化所以我們這次呢也跟地方政府講清楚我們就不讓地方政府我們建議地方政府就不要前往去參加這種有統戰意味濃厚的海峽論壇也希望它所屬的同仁你也不要准 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6709.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6736.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那這樣我們的態度就比較清楚那地方政府也知道怎麼配合當然啦我們很清楚啦我們不反對交流啦我們也不仇恨中國的人民一般人我們現在的只是共產黨無所不用其極在對台灣做任何的統戰啦做任何的脅迫施壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6737.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6753.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
反正他就是要把台灣給拿過去而已這是共產黨的態度啦但一般的中國的人民我相信啦可能也有一半以上是討厭共產黨只是他不敢講出來講出來就被抓去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6755.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6782.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
委員說得很好其實我們願意跟中國大陸進行這個對等尊嚴健康有序的交流但是海峽論壇我們沒有主體性都是要設計好的一個統戰的一個框架所以我們是不適合我沒有說你們這個不對我想要我們跟一般人其實我們不排斥他其實有時候他的心可能是跟我們的心一樣只是他在那種 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6784.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6799.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那種極權的政治的情況之下他不敢啊那就是威權統治啊 對不對所以像這個我認為啦 就像主委說的啦把他說的明確一點讓大家有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6800.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6812.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
可以是說我也可以大膽跟你講就不行啊我就不能去啊這樣不就好了我覺得反而是更好的而且要讓他們知道共產黨啊他是到處騙啊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6816.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6838.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
在這種情況之下我不知道啊主委你知不知道其實台灣啊共產黨對台灣的統戰無所不用其極啊你知道剛剛我聽了很多委員在講說藝人啊怎麼樣藝人那當然是一個例子主委你知道嗎我們現在有很多電台 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6839.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6849.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
幾乎他的談話內容很多都是在替中共產黨宣傳你們知道這件事嗎我們有了解我們也積極在查處 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6851.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6878.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
怎麼查處跟委員報告特別是那種小型的地方電台或是個別的網紅都一直是中國大陸對台統戰的重要對象那我們也常看到他邀請這些地方電台或地方的媒體或是個人網紅到中國大陸去做參訪那回來可能就交付很多任務那麼在 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6880.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6903.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
這個中國大陸如果有資訊進來的話就會由他們做這個重要的管道散出這個就是我們在掌握的在以前國民黨執政的那時候我們還沒有戒嚴前啦戒嚴時代這種叫為匪宣傳是要抓去關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6905.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6912.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
可是我不知道你們有沒有那麼多的能力去監聽這些電台甚至媒體這些你們有這麼多能力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6914.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6939.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
是不可能的但是我們還是要積極的去讓民眾了解你如果說像我們反滲透法你接受中國大陸的指示委託資助在台灣又從事不法行為這個可能要加重處罰我這樣子講啦民眾這些都知道啦但啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6940.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6963.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
像這個真的很過分的這些因為坦白就像主委說的啦小的電台他本身要生存下去就不容易啦人家有給他好處他就像一個商業型的置入性嘛但你的置入性你不能違反一些原則嘛那如果有違反一些原則的我覺得跳一兩個來 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6965.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6976.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
來讓大家知道你這樣做是不對的啊是我覺得應該要這樣啊是 跟我們報告 其實我們國人警覺性有大幅提高像對這些小眾媒體或是網紅有一些談話他認為已經觸犯我們社會底線都會積極地跟陸委會或香港當局提出檢舉那我們也會積極地來查辦我覺得啦 很具體啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6989.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7002.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
陸委會你可以就這個跟相關的單位然後去跟他們開一個跨部會的會議去協調我跟你講他只要在上面賣藥講錯一個字講錯一個就罰了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7006.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7024.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
表示是有人在特別處理這件事啊你不能跟他們合作嗎對不對他的內容有錯也是罰啊你光講錯這個健康食品跟醫療的什麼就罰了啊那這個為什麼他可以到處罰啊這個為什麼我們抓不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7025.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7047.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個我覺得執行上可以檢討一下啦那另外啦最後我要說不只這樣啊人家現在都已經積極的創造網紅你知道嗎有很多說去中國不管哪個城市參加歌唱比賽然後歌唱比賽呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7048.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7067.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
得前三名台灣的人對不對然後得前三名他還幫你出唱片然後幫你辦演唱會那他就培養一個網紅啦培養一個然後再透過他回來就像剛剛朱薇你講的做一些不合理的宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7069.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7093.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
人家都已經做到這樣了耶這個我相信你們應該也都有所掌握啦但有所掌握的情況之下我覺得合理的商業行為合理的什麼我們也不能去制止他們但他的言論只要有不對你就要積極處理啊我就舉剛剛的例子啊賣保健食品講錯一句話就要罰很多錢啊那你去調調看那個罰了多少然後連這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7098.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7119.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
你說政府沒有辦法去監控那我覺得這樣政府就無能了是跟委員報告特別在網路世界裡面我們要尋求這個數位的服務的管理那目前我們台灣還是要形成共識那截至目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7121.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7143.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我沒有跟你講網路世界,我剛講的很清楚了喔哪些項目喔因為他的很多宣傳都會停在網路上面比如說網紅他一直透過這個網路平台來做載具那這個部分有些錯假消息的處理那確實我們要台灣社會要趕快形成共識因為在民主先進國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7146.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7163.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
這個數位服務法在像歐盟在2022年就已經立法其他像其他歐洲國家、美國、日本都有這個相關的立法我們台灣市還沒有這方面的立法主委我剛剛就講了啦是他賣保健食品講錯話就可以罰連續罰對不對那你連這個他為匪宣傳替共產黨講一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7171.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7195.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
就像網紅講的這些都是要侵犯台灣主權然後在替台灣人洗腦的人這個我們政府竟然沒有辦法去處理我覺得不對啦是我覺得你們要去處理就好啦是 謝謝委員我們尊重國人的言論自由但是對於比如說要消滅中華民國比如說鼓吹戰爭那這個部分就是超過我們紅線的我們還會積極處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7198.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7207.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
對啦你們就去積極處理就好了是好謝謝委員謝謝張榮祿召委現在我們請黃婕委員質詢好謝謝主席我們請主委邱主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7222.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7234.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
黃委員好主委好首先來跟進前面幾位委員的這個議題喔因為我知道說現在陸委會正在查處大概二十幾位的藝人是希望說他們不要來唱賀中國然後為中國來宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7237.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7256.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那但是呢其實前幾天有幾位委員在另外一個委員會已經有問到了那目前問到是說你們會根據兩岸條例33之1的這個紅線然後你們查處的標準是如果按照它的頻率以及它的嚴重性來決定要不要開罰然後會有兩個紅線嘛一個是說言論有明確表達要消滅台灣主權或是有涉及武統的言論第二個紅線是說破壞自由民主的憲政秩序 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7266.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7292.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那其实我认为这两个红线目前看起来还是不够明确的我认为应该要更明确的告诉所有的不管是艺人网红还是任何要到中国去交流然后去表演的这一些公众人物他们都应该要有所依循才对当然我很认同陆委会接下来要给予他们的理由是说不要让他们身不由己 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7294.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7308.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
不要讓他們去中國在發表這些言論或是轉發相關的圖卡的時候無所依循因為連我們自己國內如果都沒有辦法給出他們這個標準就等於是他們沒有後盾去跟中共說我們不要做這件事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7310.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7323.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
對 我認為這個基礎是很好只是說我認為紅線的這個剛剛說的這兩條紅線應該要更加明確這個才讓藝人或是所有的公眾人物他們去到中國的時候才有所依循啊而不是說現在這兩條看起來還是有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7326.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7334.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
不夠明確而且是可能變成說33之一裡面的合作行為沒有明確的規範導致他們沒有辦法就變有點漫無邊際擔心說會不會做了這件事情講了這句話又變成觸犯我們的兩岸條例所以我在這邊是明確的建議陸委會接下來應該要讓紅線更明確才可以實質保障國人的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7351.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7376.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
是 謝謝委員 我想我們對在中國大陸發展的藝人我們尊重我們國人的各種言論自由包括他對文化 對血緣的選擇 我們都尊重只不過我們對有一些言行包括消滅中華民國 矮化台灣甚至鼓吹配合中國大陸武統 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7377.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7402.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那我們對這些言論當然就是我們社會都引起極大的反彈反感跟不齒當然很多的檢舉案就進來那我們對這些我們關注的就是大家看我們用兩條例33條之一是跟中國大陸黨政軍的合作行為我們試想他們往往在特定時刻一起集體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7407.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7415.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
表達各種矮化台灣共同的說法或者是一起轉發類似的圖卡這個背後都是有一個力量在逼迫他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7438.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7461.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我想我們單純轉發會以這個比較尊重個人言論自由但是集體轉發就是我們強調的合作行為這個合作行為具有主觀跟客觀的要件都符合所以我們很就是想透過這是跟文化部這個行政查處去了解這種合作行為背後的合作行為是不存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7462.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7476.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
因為如果未清我們政府的許可你是不得跟中國大陸黨政軍有任何形式的合作行為我們是用這個查處然後再來去跟他關切跟提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7477.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7502.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
關懷的部分當然我們知道他們在中國大陸是不是有遭到什麼經濟攻勢或者遭到怎麼樣的外力脅迫逼他們去政治表態他個人有沒有這個意願因為一般來說只要是台灣人都有那種飲水思源照顧故鄉的這種本質那怎麼回過頭來傷害自己的國家好像栽培他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7503.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7520.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
社會這個我們要去調查原委那是怎麼樣造成的所以這個我們還是要有查處的行為之後才能夠了解事實真相那另外我們也透過這次的查處關懷他在中國大陸可能生存不易我們台灣其實是在整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7522.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7541.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
就是表演的空間的自由是比中國大陸更優越加上我們文化部有很多很好的機會可以提供藝人來發展如果他可以可以回到台灣來更重要的我們又查處的作為也在挺我們的藝人他可以跟對岸說我們政府已經在 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7542.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7545.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
查處了那我不得再轉發這些事情了因為我就是認為你們應該要給出一些具體的行為的規範讓這些藝人避免誤觸統戰的這個底線然後甚至是避免誤觸統戰的紅線然後也要給他們後盾給他們理由讓他們有理由去跟中共拒絕嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7562.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7565.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這個是非常重要所以剛剛其實講到說三十三條之一的這個解釋中國的黨政軍的合作行為到底是什麼我希望陸委會這個要加以說明就例如說我剛剛講的如果有一些藝人除了藝人轉發圖卡這種事情還有例如台灣的名嘴啊他們就會說統戰有什麼關係包括之前已經好幾個名嘴什麼謝寒冰趙紹康都講過嘛那這種算不算 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7591.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7611.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那另外一種就是說如果像我們的台灣的立委他們去跟中國跟一些中共的幹部見面然後可能有涉及一些有違國家利益國家安全的行為甚至說他們代表中央政府要去跟中國假設啦他們說已經現在富坤起已經說他代表中央政府了嘛但如果他去跑去跟中共說要簽一些協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7613.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7627.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
可能和平協議或什麼協議那這種算不算跟中國黨政局有明確的合作行為跟委員報告這個是更嚴重的情形這是違反兩條例第五條之一如果情節 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7628.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7648.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
更重的話還有刑罰的問題那這個部分我們也查查他嘴巴這麼說但是並沒有簽署協議如果有的話那就是明顯違反我們兩條第五條之一這個是比較重度的各種處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7649.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7668.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好所以我是希望啦我剛剛講的這個33條之一的內容到底是什麼可不可以再請陸委會之後再提供書面然後也在你們之後的記者會更明確的讓大家知道如何避免誤觸紅線這個非常重要那再來幫我放一下投影片下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7669.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7674.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那我講一下這個剛好我們陳玉珍委員也在現場這個就是我想要問的請問海峽兩岸論壇在你們的定義當中已經是明確中共對台的統戰平台對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7681.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7707.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
是包括因為我們雖然是參加邀請方但是沒有台灣的主體性都是由他安排他的統戰框架跟宣傳這個是我這邊提供一下去年有出席兩岸論壇的名單包括中國國民黨的副主席連聖文然後中國國民黨的雲林縣長張立善還有我們在座的陳玉珍委員蘇星泉委員還有台灣民眾黨的中央委員還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7711.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7738.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
新党的主席还有金门的副县长全部都跑去了这个两岸海峡的论坛那我想问的是你们目前只有建议他们不要出席那有没有更明确的做法就例如说你们现在要求自己中央部会跟所属的单位人士不能出席禁止以任何形式参加但是对于地方政府以及像地方的民代中央的民代他们出席了 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7739.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7749.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
你們有沒有一些可不可以要求他們申報或者是說許可或者是說你們公告這一些出席的名單至少做到揭露的義務讓大家知道說我們台灣就是有這麼多的黨公職正在出席中共的這樣的統戰論壇 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7760.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7777.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
跟委員報告我們這次對於海峽論壇的原則的處理就是您剛提到的就是對於地方政府由原本的不樂見前往一直到最近要建議地方政府不予參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7779.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7793.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就是不同意參加海峽論壇那也希望他的所屬去參加海峽論壇呢也不以同意那我們給出比較明確的建議是因為過去有很多的地方政府反映因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7794.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7821.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
提到這個不樂見他們說這比較模糊那很多地方政府也跟我說要明確一點如果說我們說不建議他們去他至少在中國大陸很多邀約他說我們政府他可以推辭對他可以推辭要給他們推辭後盾跟理由那更重要是因為由於沒有主體性你們都在看中國大陸有沒有透過海峽論壇釋出給地方政府的一些善意其實他這個都是區別對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7824.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7846.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
進行對於我們的分化的統戰事實上我們看到這幾年連善意也沒有口惠而死不至所以越來越多的地方政府也不想去了他有說希望我們政府就講明確一點那我們這次就建議他們不要去但是如果一定要去的我們也希望能夠要遵守兩岸的相關規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7848.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7875.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
希望在對等尊嚴那也要注意社會的觀感剛剛委員提的很好就是說我們提很多社會很重視政治人物去參加這個統戰活動那民眾會非常的高度的關注所以我們也希望有建議一定要去的人要注意社會觀感要注意國際視聽來確保能努力維護台灣的整體利益至少要申報或是提供去 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7877.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7895.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個出訪的行程呢目前申報的只有有限的這些特定要按照兩岸條例第九條的規定來申報那像目前我們也是希望那是不是至少要求這個有公職身份的包括說地方縣市首長是還有政府人員但是還有包括民代 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7900.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7909.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
包括議員包括立委包括里長如果他們要出席這個都已經被你們定義是對台統戰的這樣的平台的海峽兩岸論壇那他們出席這樣的活動難道不需要申報行程嗎是跟委員報告以你這張表 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7915.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7940.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
像縣市首長、直轄市長、政務官都要跟我們申報至於立法委員是沒有我們也嘗試的去修法不過因為立委前往他肩負的很多選民的這種期許也會被高度關注加上海峽論壇也有很多媒體所以都會被揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7940.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7966.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那有許多的政黨人士會前往不管怎麼樣去參加這個海峽論壇這種統戰的活動我們都希望能夠遵守兩岸的條例能夠共同維護台灣整體的利益能夠對等尊嚴那麼不要太附和他們統戰的說法這個對國人是明星世紀這種打擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7967.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7980.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那我們也希望他要重視社會觀感這很重要謝謝主委我相信這個就是講給我們台下的陳昀臻委員聽的啦那最後不好意思再給我一分鐘好不好最後一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7982.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7985.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這個我這邊提供兩個案子我這邊接到兩個澄清案一個是我們文藻外語大學他們有學校的學務的組長他們直接在學校跟學生推薦這個上海的參訪團然後只要2500塊就可以去七天然後可以住四到五星級的飯店然後還有說這個就是邀請學生學生一起來參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8009.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8024.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那另外一個是在荔枝中學裡面也是有這樣的群組的訊息在散步當中包括說去上海蘇州然後對像是對科學文化有興趣的全台高中生然後備註說如果小學畢業之後就沒有去過中國內陸的同學會優先錄取那請問這兩則訊息是不是很明顯的統戰交流團 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8032.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8052.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我想應該是相當明確,那我們陸委會最近也因為暑假快到了,類似中國大陸的這種邀請案、交流案我們認為如果不是對等尊嚴的,不是符合這個教育部規範,我們就把這些個案依請教育部趕快處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8053.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8070.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
好這兩岸其實我都已請了那只是我想要在這邊建議陸委會接下來沒錯像你說的暑假要到了這種以學術或者是以宗教為名的兩岸交流團非常多但是如何協助學校跟這一些公廟去辨識它是不是統戰團 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8071.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8086.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這個我要拜託陸委會接下來也請你們給我書面報告以及在你們所有的公開平台上面協助所有的這些地方單位不管是學校還是什麼宗教還是任何的他們以文化為名的交流團但實質是統戰團的請他們讓他們知道怎麼辨識讓他們知道怎麼去預防好不好好這是我們職責所在我們全力以赴謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8099.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8106.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
謝謝看來我們今天這個質詢的時間好像給的短了一點請大家把握時間好不好下一位我們請麥一貞委員質詢麥一貞委員質詢完之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝主席有請邱主委還有董事長 吳董事長邱主委有請吳董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8131.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8150.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
主委好 感謝兩位在今天列席報告對我們兩岸就複雜的情勢 除了國安還有經貿風險外我們兩岸民間來往的婚姻家庭也是相關三百萬家庭的福利的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8152.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8155.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
所以我們在看到的母親節的期間我們陸委會內政部還有海基會高調的舉辦說母親節陸配關懷活動對外宣稱就是溫馨關懷但此時此刻同時也有大量的陸配就是陸籍配因為無法三個月內補交三次中國戶籍的證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8181.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8209.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
面临处疾导致生活的中断还有政府一边高喊温情的关怀一边却处疾来政治清算这种一边送康乃馨一边剥夺他们居住台湾这个身份所以呢这个是政治性的羞辱因为这些妈妈不管是外配还是陆配他们母亲节都快乐不起来 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8210.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8238.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
因為呢一個就會擔心身份就失去了另外一個不知道我們政府什麼時候又再清算所以我們要請教一下目前已經有多少人因此被處級還有又有多少人進入補件的階段還有我們的部分陸配因為年老經濟困難或者中國當局不配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8238.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8257.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
仍處於補件的困境三個月時程很短但是中國行政效力下許多人就是難以取得證明所以我們要這個申請還有這些的案件現在目前處理得如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8259.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8289.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
好 謝謝委員 首先跟委員報告我們這個母親節的活動啊當然真的是關懷我們陸配所有在台生活這是我們例行都會做的事情第二個我也要跟委員您剛剛說我們請陸配為了維護他的這個合法的身份請他把這個處級拿回來叫清算我們不同意這種說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8290.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8313.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
這個是在羞辱我們服務陸配的公務人員的努力我們都在協助我們的陸配試想我們的目標就是讓他們安居樂業他們沒有合法的身份怎麼安居樂業我想所有的陸配並沒有委員講那個三個月內就受到除籍的只要跟我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8314.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8334.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
移民署跟我們海基會跟我們陸委會聯繫我們都會來協助他來協助他達成剛剛委員有問說我們就是之前的資深這些陸配那麼具有這個雙重戶籍被註銷的人我們從以往 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8337.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8350.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這個累計是有1192人那我也要跟您報告就是說您有提到就是這次呢我們清查就是在2004年3月1號這些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8353.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8373.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
他們已經繳付上市人籍證明了有1784件就是他們也配合政府然後他們自己去放棄了已經有這些那我們跟我們申請拒絕的可能現在比較不方便也有從公佈方案4月21號以來到520有880件 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8378.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8399.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
申請延後附錄的也有352件那反映其他的爭議的問題我們說各種的疑難雜症都可以跟我們反映也有485件那麼這些每一個件我們都會專案的協助跟輔導並沒有委員所說的在給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8400.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8417.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
主委是有做了 所以我們也看到有這些問題但是因為我們民間團體現在目前很多人在反應我們要第一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8418.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8421.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
第一個對陸配就是請送回去第二個就馬上就是有這些的問題但是直接是我們要取得台灣的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8432.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8457.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我們是政府的規定來取得這個是政府規定不是我們像我們外配我們直接就是你要拿到放棄國籍你才能拿到台灣身份證對不對但是這個行政作業是你們的疏忽所以變成你們的疏忽現在你們叫後面再來去清查清算所以我們就覺得說沒有清算 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8458.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8475.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我們都在關懷協助輔導但是因為大家都感覺是這樣因為一路發生的事情讓大家就是愁在我們也跟大部分的陸配團體有聯繫他們都很感謝政府的協助大部分的陸配也都是非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8475.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8479.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我還沒有找你回應等一下再換你回應因為有很多你們現在的資料為什麼以前不查今年又再查出來查出來了又要給的不只是送給小孩子而已媽媽一起送 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8492.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8497.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
所以變成這些資料是你們寄 移民署寄就變成大家覺得說我的個資又是不是又外洩了 還有收到一些簡訊所以這個是大家在心惶惶還有很多的拿到身份證了 沒有收到你們寄過來的他們也不清楚說他們已經被處級還是沒有被處級如果他們沒有收到 就變成說是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8518.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8522.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我三個月我就要被錢送所以這個種種的產生的問題所以我們是因為這樣呢我們就是在我們發生的當天我們就有就是新二代為了母親他們就是公開的去懲罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8539.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8543.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
當5月10號我們新住民的團體姐妹們他們母親節前一天他們也公開的陳情到現在新住民的團體與新二代的團體多次陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8556.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8584.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
所以呢也批评我们政策造成就是家庭的分裂还有就是制度的歧视所以我们希望说这个放宽或者是说我们有没有一个专职的窗口让他们真正的觉得是说居住台湾大家是把我们是当作台湾人自己的家人的真的是要协助不要说他们的连新二代我们台湾之子 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8585.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8609.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
他們都站出來了新住民也站出來了我們不能說不讀不回或者不要給他們回應這樣子我們就是辦個活動這樣子就做一個形象還是說真的是對他們好嗎我們希望我們陸委會這邊真的是真正的落實為我們居住台灣我們是台灣人的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8609.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8633.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
是 謝謝委員我想我們做的這個目標跟您的一樣就是希望台灣能夠成為所有新住民安居樂業的新故鄉那至於這個事情包括您提到那個二代有很多的反應他們也有到入委會我們也剛剛說明他們都很支持我們政府的做法當然委員有提到那個就是他各種心理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8633.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8656.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
恐慌或是不知道不知所措這個只要跟我們包括我們常說這個我們海基會是陸配永遠的娘家我們各地的移民署是我們陸配家庭的依靠我們陸委會就是陸配的後盾不要跟我們講就不會有你那個擔心更沒有歧視的問題只有擔心輔導服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8661.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8664.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
輔導是別人來求救但是因為產生主委我覺得是說我們不管是新二代還是陸配是他們來求救你處理我們希望的你主動因為已經你們的行政錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8680.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8686.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
導致這些事情擦身你們應該聽我講完應該你們要去辦就是論壇或者說明會邀請他們一起來跟你們面對面來去對談我覺得對大家比較有幫助我們好幾場的說明會都已經在 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8699.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8704.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
預計要舉行了好幾場什麼時候 因為他們還是在我們城市還有在北中南各地都會舉辦我希望你們就是要管先 讓更多人來知道這樣子的施助接下來 你已經在辦了 所以我希望你把這些資料給我接下來我要問的海基會 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8723.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8737.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我們在報告中多次強調就是協助兩岸民眾的緊急事件但是當我們的工作重心之一包含就是辦護照、病危、滴流這些在台的這些事件都是我們的玄關人命的基本權利的第一線的需求但是目前我們政府在兩岸緊張的停擺之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8753.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8758.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
基本就是24緊急專線卻在今年3月縮減成為還有12個小時所以我要請教一下若民眾深夜發生事情急難的事情或者像突發的病狀還有家屬深夜就是要對岸的求救的時候我們要等明天再來打電話嗎這樣的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8780.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8794.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
是及時應變嗎我們是希望我們的董事長因為希望你來幫忙我們這一塊很坦白跟委員這個答覆24小時的專線33年沒有斷過最近才改成12個小時為什麼呢因為我們的預算4塊錢被你們刪掉剩下3塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8813.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8835.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那是不是改成12小時之後要等明天再打沒有 我們有錄音那隔天一早馬上答覆對方這是不得已的措施請你們了解是因為這樣子我們不但20小時專線這樣子改啦我們很多活動只好取消啊我們連送每一個董事生日的花都取消剩下一張卡片 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8837.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8840.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
謝謝我們董事長救命專線比董事的生日還重要但是你覺得董事的生日來去比對我覺得我們的人命關天我們就是說影音今天中風明天才急救這樣子就會是說我們錄音純正就是打電話進來所以我們還機會過去強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8865.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8874.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
人道精神還有及時應變 如今卻唯一救命的專線的時效急救的專線變成現實的專線 現實的服務就違背我們的海基會的精神還有宗旨啦所以我們感覺是這樣子原則不變 裡面的錢變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8890.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8905.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
現在問題我們的服務我們的服務量我們在停擺啊我們要不是說有一些急迫性的我們要去處理沒有我們要急迫性的使你不是說行政判斷出了問題我們民眾需要的是什麼我們要去講我們民眾的需要的是什麼因為現在兩岸馬路不通 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8916.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8920.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
但是唯一的救命專線也不通了 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8921.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8925.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這樣我們兩岸關係的但是你說就減一塊錢但是你的生日的來去來去把它比對我真的是聽了很難過啊我們一個專線救命的馬路不通了我們專線還來把它停掉還有12個小時說我們義大利人員不加薪真的我覺得真的是董事長我覺得是真的如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8950.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8966.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
沒辦法求救的裝線多要去關的話我們覺得說我們海基會這樣子的價值是什麼啊董事長真的我聽起來真的很難過抱歉跟委員報告一下就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8966.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8979.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們24小時服務專線雖然現在只有12個小時但是8點半之後我們還是有這個保全可以來直接接通我們的服務的人員而且我們每天都有控管半夜的這個服務的狀況是什麼叫做緊急專線 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8982.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8994.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
但是...沒有但是我們的服務不會中斷就是我們仍然...我們可以在當時馬上來做處理如果人需要的話我們可以馬上給你們做報告沒有沒有我們每天都有控管相關的狀況跟委員做報告對 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9001.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9014.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
對的確這方面我們仍然這個叫做緊急專線啦緊急專線只有12個小時什麼叫做緊急專線我真的是聽不下去我們希望就是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9016.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9040.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
陸配的除籍的正義還有還有其他就是現在我們的就是海基會我們希望我們要去做的是我們馬路現在都停擺了我們我們的專線希望要有這個功能才能幫助到我們兩岸關係的國人的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9040.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9046.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以我們希望說不管是我們人民的交代對我們的國會的負責希望兩位要跨部會的來去協調幫助到我們的國民謝謝因為時間有限不用讓你們回答你們素面給我可以嗎希望你們跨部會來去處理謝謝好謝謝麥義正委員現在我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9070.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9084.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
嗨去那邊我這邊喔今天還有多少人大概還有幾個那邊好 今天還有多少人有的不會來啦我應該不要去邊境嘛好 反正結束的時候打給我好 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9093.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9094.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
要吃麵糰嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9119.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9119.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
謝謝收看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9538.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9544.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
好 我們繼續開會 接下來請我們牛喜廷委員召委謝謝主席 邱主委有請有請主委委員好好 這個雖然是請你備詢了但是我要在這邊我們讚美一下我們吳董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9566.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9583.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
剛剛吳董事長理論上來講他是不用備詢的但是他剛剛用了一些時間來清楚的對海基會的立場做了充分的表達包含他提到說和平應該是兩岸的共同利益但是和平難行卻成為了世界共同的問題這句話某一些層面來講深得我心我之所以要讚美他的原因是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9584.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9600.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
其實我們今天去談兩岸關係的一些變化其實非常關鍵的是應該需要看到所謂的完整性跟所謂的一致性昨天是賴清德總統就職一週年他很罕見的或者是很出乎意料的並沒有在這個就職演說中提及兩岸關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9601.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9630.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那這當然是某一種層面來講這是一種信號但是我們要把時間往回拉一路拉回他就職開始一路以來他對於兩岸立場的一些調整跟改變我希望藉這樣一點點的業務報告的時間我想聽一聽邱主委的看法跟評論這113年5月20號也就是他就職上任的當天他馬上將兩岸定位成為兩國互不隸屬這個主委你自己在業務報告的時候你是講兩岸互不隸屬到底是兩國還是兩岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9632.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9659.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
跟委員報告不管是中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬或者兩岸互不隸屬這個都是客觀的事實以及台海的現狀那我們在呼籲中國大陸就是一個重點要正視中華民國存在的客觀事實你如果不正視它 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9661.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9673.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
你的對台政策都是要消滅中華民國並吞台灣兩岸就很辛苦因為你剛剛的回答表示這兩件事情其實是一樣的它真的是一樣的嗎它如果是一樣的話那為什麼你今天的業務報告是講兩岸而不是講兩國 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9675.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9691.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
跟委員報告我們是經常我們因為有很多句子要鋪陳那基本上就是我們經常講兩岸互不隸屬那就是這是客觀事實跟台海的現狀那不管怎麼樣就叫正式 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9693.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9710.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我們中華民國客觀事實存在要正視台灣人民對於民主自由生活方式的堅持好 這些形容詞大家都聽很多這不是形容詞 是我們政策好 政策 我們都願意尊重 願意了解但是你看其實剛剛就出現了所謂的不一致性這只是我的開頭而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9711.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9737.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
今年的3月13號我們的賴總統賴17條強硬的表態把對岸定義成為所謂的境外敵對勢力並且提出5項統戰威脅跟17項的因應策略這俗稱的賴17條嘛對不對照理來講是順著但是到了5月17號他接受所謂的網紅敏迪的專訪的時候卻突然變成了大公司並小公司的時候應該要開好條件欸這個就開始出現所謂的不一致性啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9737.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9749.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
如果中國大陸在賴清德總統定調又是兩國互不隸屬又是境外敵對勢力那怎麼可以允許併購行為呢主委 這樣子的一個說法是你的建議嗎跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9753.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9769.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我想兩岸互動重點就是在對等尊嚴那麼賴總統昨天也在強調只要對等尊嚴歡迎中國大陸跟來台進行各種的合作交流我們也期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9771.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9792.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
在對等尊嚴的情況下兩岸可以透過交流取代圍堵透過對話取代對抗讓兩岸可以健康有序展開交流為兩岸的良性互動墊下基礎我想這是緩解兩岸關係最重要的公開的某一些層面是喊話我今天要問的問題就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9794.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9813.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
就是說你在賴17條的時候把它講的境外敵對勢力然後現在又講說應該要用對話取代對抗這就叫做不一致嘛中委員沒有不一致沒有不一致沒有不一致為什麼會這樣因為我們面對的中國大陸非常嚴重的威脅統戰滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9815.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9844.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這我有講的這是一種複合性的施壓包括軍機艦擾台越來越嚴重這個你剛剛講的不管是灰色地帶作戰啦或者說複合式施壓這些本質都非常理解但問題就是對岸起來是沒有變的嘛它就是一直逼你一直壓迫你對不對對不不不逼極限施壓我擔心的是我們自己沒有很清楚的一致性嘛如果你講民進黨執政當然要打對抗路線那你就明確而且清楚而且一致性那至少 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9844.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9867.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
在全世界各地在觀看在推兩岸的戰略等等的時候他有跡可循但是問題就是從去年的5月20號到現在你一下說兩國互不隸屬一下說要對話一下又講說境外敵對勢力一下又講說併購要提條件到了520滿一年之後對兩岸置之未提這件事情叫做不完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9868.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9898.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
不一致某一些層面從全世界看待兩岸關係推演的角度來講這叫不確定性我提醒一下邱主委最近Foreign Affairs出了兩篇文章一篇是15號他寫The risk of war in the Taiwan Strait is highand getting higher另外一篇是5月20號The Taiwan Tightrope這兩篇文章我希望陸委會也許海基會可以去拜讀一下這當然來自於美國的智庫學者這個對於最近兩岸局勢跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9898.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9914.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
整體亞太和平安全架構下面的一些分析裡面有提到共同的兩個重點第一個要避免大家誤判情勢啊也就是說很有可能那個衝突是會爆發的如果美方沒有抓好情勢的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9915.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9937.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
可能會出現擦槍走火的一個狀況另外這兩篇文章都明示暗示啊就美方應該要稍微遏制一下所謂的挑釁行為這話講得很清楚搭配前一陣子川普講的unification and peace這個我們有沒有受到美方的壓力或者是指示主委就我的業務範圍我沒有就你的業務範圍你沒有對 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9938.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9959.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那我跟委員報告中國大陸對台灣的對台政策還是軟硬兩手硬的那一手就越硬所以我們剛剛說的複合性的施壓這就是我們為了維持現狀積極的維持現狀讓台海現狀不被改變所以我們要有17項的因應策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9961.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9989.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那當然我們也是希望兩岸應該要正常健康有序的交流我現在就是很擔心啦就是你對外釋出的訊號一下是17項的強硬策略一下又釋出善意這不一致所謂強硬策略委員我們稍微跟您報告一下那個都是我們的政黨防衛那個都是我們內部的這個強化機制並沒有對中國大陸有什麼挑釁那他 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9990.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10005.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
成為我們的說我們是境外敵對勢力那個也是國際公務員的事實借用一點時間只是要提醒這個大選的時候我們賴總統曾經講這個他當總統的時候兩岸發生戰爭的機率一定最低但只是今日目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10006.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10030.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
中共舉行四次環台軍演其實我們政府的一言一行都牽動兩岸的敏感神經那立場的論述要有一致性我今天不在這邊定義你應該要和緩或者是強硬因為這有時局的變化可是你要有一致性跟邏輯性要不然你會被全世界認定成為不確定因子跟不穩定因素這一段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10032.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10053.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
賴總統滿意度下滑很多人對兩岸是心中有質疑的是不安定的我希望尤其在520這一周年又沒有聽到有具體的方向這是我認為這是跟國家安全是有關的事情因為不管是你的盟友在看待這件事或者是國內關心兩岸大事的人民在關心這件事情他都需要看到完整而且一致性而且清晰的論述 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10054.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10075.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這件事情大概不會是你單獨陸委會的事也不會只是海基會的事情但是整個政府團隊你的步調要一致你的態度要清楚國人才會安定這是本席今天要花點時間來做政策提醒的部分另外因為時間超過我今天不多講經濟的部分一樣很重要現在我們面對全世界這個關稅衝擊美國跟你關稅等等要重新去談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10077.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10099.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
中國大陸的ECFA找收清單會不會因為兩岸關係的惡化或者是停滯不前有改變的可能性你作為兩岸關係的主要組織的單位有沒有做相關的一些兵棋推演這些內容我用書面的方式會後給你請你做詳細的答覆可以嗎可以 謝謝委員我們的政策主軸一貫而堅定就是堅定維護兩岸關係和平穩定的現狀變成和平穩定了好 OK 謝謝主委辛苦了好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10106.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10107.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
謝謝主席我們請陸委會邱主委邱主委請 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10129.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10133.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
主委好剛剛在陸委會的這個報告裡面你們一再的強調兩岸互不隸屬反對統戰滲透可是賴總統卻用這個大公司小公司的合併來去形容兩岸的競合 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10147.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10164.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
賴總統說中共中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司所以如果大的公司要併購小的公司大陸應該要提條件而不是台灣在提條件請問主委你是否認同賴總統所提的併購說的說法來形容兩岸合併與否 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10165.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10187.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
跟委員報告我想在許多地方他們有詮釋兩樣的互動重點在對等尊嚴要相互尊重而不是說你塞了一個我無法接受的前提這個前提是要消滅中華民國的前提這個前提是要台灣成為中華人民共和國的一部分我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10188.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10209.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我們無法接受這種政治情形所以主委您認不認同賴總統公私併購說的說法我認同這個他的兩岸政策的主軸就是希望兩岸能夠在對等尊嚴能夠啟動健康有序的交流公私併購說的說法就是我們兩岸關係現在最新的立場嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10211.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10224.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我講他是一個比喻這希望兩岸能夠對等尊嚴相互尊重來開啟任何健康有序的交流那請問一下併購說是不是意味著賴政府同意統一呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10228.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10240.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
不必過度解讀那請問要怎麼解讀我剛剛說了就是對等尊嚴我們一直呼籲中國當中一個重要的事情就是正式中華民國的過關事實存在在針對訪談的時候提出這樣的併勾說的說法那請問我們要怎麼解讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10247.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10265.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們的解讀就是兩岸互動要在對等尊嚴相互尊重請問一下剛剛主委已經有提到我看很多委員在提針對這個大陸的我們台灣的藝人在大陸的一些轉發的人就說應該要處罰應該要這個可能違反什麼相關的規定那請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10267.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10282.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
賴總統這樣的言論是不是以默許自己可以當作是中國的一部分只是在談價格跟條件這樣有沒有違反你剛剛講的建議委員不要這個過度延伸的解讀啦我們最主要還是對等尊嚴相互尊重你不認同賴總統的併購說的說法是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10286.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10311.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
不要外延到那種意義的去解讀因為我覺得很奇怪喔我們只要簡單的一句話就會被你們扣上什麼賣台啦親中賣台的大帽子總統都已經講了說可以併購了幾乎就等於說是只要你價格談出來你只要價格好我就可以來併購我那這樣子的言行你們還認為我們不必過度解讀那為什麼可以繼續收官放火不許百姓連登 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10313.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10335.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
你要用文明的價值跟方式來說服台灣你的對台政策而不是不答應我前提我就文攻武嚇我想這個也是中國大陸被國際社會被民主國家圍堵的原因主委那請問一下以後我們可不可以都可以提到這個我們不要提統一我們就提併購這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10339.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10355.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
就是我們也會這樣提啊那不管是合意併購或者是敵意併購比如說武力統一我們就算是敵意併購和平統一就算是這個合意併購以後我們是不是都可以用併購來代替統一這樣的字眼這樣就不會有事呢委員不用用這個公私併購來看待兩岸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10358.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10386.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這個互動我們還是強調賴總統這樣的言行其實就讓大家都會覺得會讓國際社會覺得誤以為台灣已經在準備變賣主權了我覺得賴總統這段時間的這個言論大家知道賴總統不是這個意思那是什麼意思請你說就是你中國大陸要對台灣的對台政策要尊重要正視我們中華民國客觀事實存在你要用文明的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10387.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10404.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
來用文明的方式就可以併購是嗎不是 而是你不能軍機線擾台你不能外交打壓經濟脅迫社會滲透一連串的認知作戰灰色地帶侵擾我現在請教的主委就是針對賴總統的併購說您認不認為他這個部分有失言他只是一個比喻我剛剛說過了那你認不認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10415.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10429.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
他是在強調對岸應該要以對等尊嚴相互尊重他要的是一個程序正義以後反正我們就是都可以講併購就是大公司可以來併購小公司只要條件談得攏 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10431.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10436.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
建議委員不要這樣無限上綱解讀我覺得你這應該是跟總統講不是跟我講第二個就是剛剛我們也聽到很多委員就是請教這個主委就是你現在有發了一個通知建議我們的政府官員不要出席海峽論壇剛剛也有民進黨委員特別提到去年代表這個到 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10456.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10471.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
雲林縣長張立善參加海峽論壇他特別提到那請問您知道去年張立善縣長去參加海峽論壇主要是做什麼嗎他主要是要去行銷雲林的農特產品為我們弱勢的農漁民找出路 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10472.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10480.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
所以說您現在說好不建議我們這些政府可以出席了那是不是就針對這些農漁民我們連幫他找出連幫他行銷農作產品都不能做了呢跟委員報告我們是建議這樣你如果挑這個他海峽論壇去那他設定的這個統戰平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10494.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10518.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那我們也想問他有設定說不讓我們行銷農特產品嗎沒有啊張縣長也在這個海峽論壇的公開的這個這個發表當中他也提到了我們雲林我想他可以挑其他的時間去為什麼不能這個時候去因為這個是他張開來的一個統戰平台嘛你沒有自主性你就任他這個安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10519.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10542.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
張立善縣長提到要行銷我們的農特產品大陸也沒有要求他不准說所以這有什麼說我們還受到他的一些約束其實我覺得不逼我想剛剛主委一直提到我們要健康有序的交流你也一直強調兩岸要交流可是做法卻是背道而馳那我請教一下如果今年有縣市政府提出要去參加海峽論壇您會不會核准 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10544.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10570.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我跟委員報告我們是建議他不出席但是他如果堅持要出席我們就會跟他規勸相關的風險請他做好風險的準備所以如果他遵守相關的規定的話你要否認我們兩岸的規範我們也會呼籲他要重視我們台灣人的民意注意社會觀感 國際視聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10572.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10576.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
共同來維護台灣整體的利益也就是說只要剛剛您說這些相關規定我們這些縣市政府只要符合跟你們申請的話你們是會核准的是嗎我們會來看他申請的室友啦比如說你說要去推薦隆特產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10590.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10605.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那我們就會問說你上次去推薦隆特產品真的有賣得很好嗎還是各位 賣得好不好我覺得你陸委會也要負很大的責任如果你不讓兩岸關係變成這樣的兵凶戰危的話也不會造成這樣的一個對立所以我覺得你把這個題目這樣問題丟出來我覺得非常的失職因為賣得好不好不是單方面的那我們還是要爭取每一個可以行銷隆特產品的我們希望兩岸政常檢查有序的交流應該去統戰化 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10618.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10625.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
不敢說一套是真正要拿出誠意來好不好我覺得農漁民已經非常弱勢了好不容易有這麼大一個市場這麼好的一個平台可以去行銷農特產品請陸委會不要干擾也不要斷了我們農民的生計斷的是中國大陸說斷就斷讓農民血本無歸這就是有風險所以我們要跟地方政府交往的話我覺得當然有風險但是呢事實上只要核准我覺得只要只要合乎規定也不該不核准我們會提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10648.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10655.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我們謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝徐益臻委員下一位我們請吳啟明委員質詢好 召委我們與會同仁請我們海基會我們吳董事長吳董事長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10680.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10705.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
吳董事長你好吳董事長你到那個海基會從去年到現在在海基會我看你也是新聞人還有你一些經歷都是非常的完整也非常的辛苦所以我今天是再次的肯定你但是我們海基會扮演的角色是非常的作用 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10707.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10726.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
你看啊我還看到你的文章是中道和平共存共榮的兩岸的理念那展開兩岸關係深層的思考以穩健的立場今天跟你恢復兩岸的對話那我們賴清德總統昨天在記者也特別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10727.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10753.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
重申兩岸還是要再交流那未來主委那個董事長未來我們兩岸這一邊的交流情形你看因為我們從2016年2016年兩岸的制度化的都已經停擺那我們是否能再恢復兩岸的交流我請我們董事長來做說明一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10757.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10762.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
剛才一開始的時候我跟各位報告33年來兩岸的交流從未中斷我們甚至於統計數目是33年來交流所產生的事物 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10776.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10797.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
經過海紀委處理,多達878萬多件像去年就多達30萬4千多件所以跟委員報告的交流部分從來沒停止也許可以這樣講,兩岸政府不好但是老百姓要結婚還是要結婚呢?三人要賺錢還是要賺錢呢?終止的是對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10802.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10826.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
對話所謂對話就是海際會跟對岸的對口單位海協會對話中止是2016年開始他的理由是我們不接受九二共識到現在為止也是這個理由可是我們政府是認為九二共識裡頭沒有中華民國的位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10828.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10850.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我們是這樣不接受不過我個人認為交流、對話、和平這三個都是連結在一起的所以應該窮盡辦法不過我是了解到社外的關係隨時變化所以審慎樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10854.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10880.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
對 因為本期比較關心的就是從2016年我們就終止了兩岸的對話那我是希望說在吳董事長你的提倡就是中道和平共存共榮的理念能恢復兩岸的對話以及兩岸的交流這是我們是比較關心的因為我們兩岸還是要處於大家共存共榮的 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10884.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10905.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
就是這個角色一定要扮演好那這也是我們吳董事長所關心的那至於說30幾年來共同在我們服務的案件就有800多萬件那證明我們海際會扮演的角色還是非常重要比如說我們的對岸的海協會 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10906.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10917.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
要怎樣透過關係怎樣有一個我們的管道來保持這個暢通的溝通管道這一點應該是比較重要吧我剛才有報告 裡頭有一句話就是兩會對話中斷但傳話暢通那麼這些傳話 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10936.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10949.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
也許在某一個時間會發生效用到現在為止沒有效用不過我的職責就是想辦法去恢復所以很認真在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10951.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10975.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
好啦我們共同的努力共同期待因為畢竟我們台商還有很多都在中國大陸他們一些的服務案件我們還是要照樣的去運作這是我們兩岸的共存共榮的理念啦好謝謝我們董事長辛苦你了真的很辛苦好謝謝好請我們入委會邱主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10980.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11001.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
主委好好 主委好主委本席比較關心的就是我們大陸的配偶因為我們三個月要繳交大陸的戶籍的處級證明台灣有很多是我們大陸的新娘的外配其實我們那時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11003.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11022.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
移民署要寄一萬兩千多件那你一寄出來你整個海基會兩百線全部都報滿那這樣我就是要求說我們陸委會是不是一個政策下去跟移民署還有我們海基會還有我們陸委會大家要溝通是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11024.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11047.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
坤坯或是他們他們現在還面臨一個問題就是因為過了已經一二十年一二十年你不叫他當處級有的人事地務都變了所以說在這個部分我是說我們還要有一個配套再來實施要怎樣來扶 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11050.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11065.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
來來來來輔導他們可以取得我們更更加合法完整不然你又煮了要再回去的時候有的都是一二十年這個部分是請我們陸委會要去考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11066.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11089.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
謝謝委員 這個非常感謝我們對於陸配有關於依法要把這個對岸除籍證明拿回來以確保他台灣的身份那當然這是依法行政那我們是在疫情期間發現疫情期間有很多剛結婚的人無法回去我們基於人道立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11090.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11109.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
不能說三個月內一定要把初期證明拿回來這個是不可能那疫情之後我們就協助這些沒有完成初期證明拿回來的這些陸配開始協助他們然而我們就開始清查以往的案例發現我們總共台灣有36萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11116.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11143.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
對結婚我們發出去的身份證有14萬張但是拿回出去證明只有13萬份還有1萬的這個差距到底是怎麼了為什麼沒有落實執法那所以我們發現包括過去的在2004年那時候我們兩條立和大一個翻修那個之前也沒有回去所以我們從去年10月就開始宣導清查的作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11144.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11168.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
其實已經完成了第一階段第二階段了那也讓我們陸配在兩岸間因為我們兩岸條例是一種單一身份的制度這個是維繫兩岸人流人別重要的基礎如果這個被破壞的話我們無法進行兩岸的交流所以我們想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11169.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11192.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這個事情是繼續蓋下來呢還是我們勇敢的面對問題承擔責任找出解決問題的方法把三十年來的問題把解決掉所以我們跟委員一樣的想法要有一個完整的配套措施那對於現在不方便的還有資料不清楚的或者說他刑方不 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11192.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11208.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
不變的或是年邁低收入戶的我們都有一些替代方案那有些人現在也許比如說他在懷孕他在就學就業或是人在監獄裡面我們都有一些延長的方案只要 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11209.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11230.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
他有任何自愛難行我們包括海基會、移民署、陸委會都會盡最大的努力來協助他完成符合我們法律的要求我們也想說他在台灣的身份一定是合法的他才有可能最後安居樂業這是我們的初衷那我們持續的關懷、輔導、協助這個都不變 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11233.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11250.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
好謝謝主委因為在我們的選區在我們新北市還是很多我們的陸配他們遇到的問題那我們還是來協助他們來取得一個委員也可以把你個案提供給我們協助好的好謝謝我們邱主委謝謝謝謝吳委員謝謝吳清明委員下一位我們請徐信委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11267.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11271.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
好謝謝主席本席有請海基會董事長吳董事長吳董事長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11281.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11304.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
好 董事長好剛剛您在業務報告的時候還有剛剛吳啟明委員質詢的時候您都親口的說出了兩岸對話的管道中斷但是傳話的管道暢通那本席想要請教那是誰授意你傳話 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11309.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11337.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
沒有人授意我傳話沒有人授意你傳話 你說傳話我沒有主動要人家去傳話傳話人都是主動來找我的我認為這對兩岸合作有幫助你是說傳話人主動找你 他主動找你沒有人要你傳話 所以我們中央政府沒有人要你去傳話對 沒有那你怎麼知道傳話管道暢通 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11338.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11347.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我說很多人基於好意基於誰住的意思主動找我 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11349.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11377.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
說他們可以幫忙傳話那你認為可以傳話嗎兩岸之間可以傳話嗎這個事情很重要你要讓我完整的表達可是你要掌握時間我們時間有限你盡量重點好不好我絕對耀眼不凡我說沒有人唆遣我跟對方傳話 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11379.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11394.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
可是因為我認為對話的管道中斷的情況之下那麼有人傳話只有好處沒有壞處不不不兩岸怎麼可以暗度成長絕對不能傳話 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11397.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11411.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
兩岸不能夠有一條不透明、不合法、不負責任的兩岸密室協商管道 絕對不行那董事長請您先暫停就先等一下 我們請邱主委好不好邱主委有請邱主委你好邱主委 請問兩岸之間可以用傳話嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11422.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11443.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
委員是這樣的 我想我們兩岸過去都有你不要浪費我時間 我時間真的不多啦好不好我們既有的溝通聯繫機制我們都維持住啦那包括我們 那我就請問你可以私下傳話嗎兩岸可以有私下傳話的行為嗎 請你回答本席我想我們有很多的學者去大陸 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11445.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11461.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
看到中國大陸的你不能這樣兩岸到底可以私下傳話的行為嗎你就回答可以嗎我想他們有很多的建議建議歸建議我現在在問你兩岸可以有私下傳話的行為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11465.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11477.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
連這個都沒辦法回答喔不是你講那個私下傳話是什麼意思是法律的定義還是說我們日常兩岸互動的日常那如果是兩岸互動的日常當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11481.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11489.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
互動那不叫傳話因為這個出自於我們海基會董事長說兩岸的溝通管道中斷對話兩岸的對話管道中斷但是傳話的管道暢通這件事嚴重啊所以我針對你我就針對董事長這句話你覺得OK嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11504 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11521.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
台商朋友像海基會經常接受很多台商朋友他們都會反映中國大陸的一些想法你接受反映這個不叫傳話也有很多的學者也有很多工協會的理事長啊負責人啊你不要再浪費本席的時間了所以政府有沒有授權傳話我們截至目前為沒有官方授權的 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11528.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11542.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
但是他們熱心跟你講這個是很多來避免誤解誤判我們要肯定兩岸之間你是指對岸官方來講不是我們官方傳話過去是哪一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11543.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11571.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我是說這一種很自然的來給你反映意見的來傳對岸的想法這個很多啦但是沒有我們授權叫他去我們並沒有授權所以本席在這裡就是要釐清因為剛剛董事長在業務報告還有就是在報告的時候還有答詢的時候就一直強調所以你應該也認同兩岸之間不能夠有密室協商吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11572.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11589.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那當然所以民進黨也不能施設任何所有的傳達我們都要體制透明否則我們怎麼知道請你私下傳某件事結果你講另外一件事而且所謂的賣台這個就是賣台 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11591.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11603.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我們也很想知道賴清德總統說大公司併購小公司這件事是不是已經有私下在互相傳話 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11605.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11632.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
有沒有 我想委員就不要過度的衍生也做不必要的解讀其實它就是兩岸之間互動我們覺得應該要對等尊嚴 相互尊重而不要你提出一個前提你現在講對了 我現在在問說你私下傳話你不能私下傳話沒有這個問題 也沒有授權的問題所以沒有政府授權傳話這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11635.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11662.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
其實目前為止是沒有授權的那未來也不可以吧要看情勢的發展只要對國家有利對兩岸有利要看情勢的發展所以對兩岸有利國家有利你們就可以密室協商喔當然我們會有一定的程序你可能忘記了民進黨政府多次強調兩岸無密室協商結果入委會主委說這個要看情勢而定 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11662.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11665.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
第四條之四,未經同意不得與大陸地區的機關法人團體或其他機構協商簽署。 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11683.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11696.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
所以你這個絕對不能密室協商沒有這個空間沒有密室協商一定是法制作業的你不能說看情況未來不管什麼情況都要體制透明而且要受到整個我們的監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11697.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11724.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
這是必然的這是必然好最後浪費我真的蠻多時間那再來就是賴總統最近有指示國安團隊要對在野黨這個簡報國安情勢本席對這點要肯定這是正確的一步所以我們但是呢我們認為這一步不能停留在形式你要能夠深化成為制度化的朝野安全對話機制是 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11726.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11747.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那所以有沒有考慮要建立一個國安共識平台跟委員報告這個目前有關於這個像我們在野黨領袖做這個國安簡報目前是由我們國安會正在作業當中我會把這個委員的意見跟他們反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11748.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11765.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
對好我們也很希望朝野之間我們在分歧中找到團結我們國安一定是朝野一致面對不分藍綠是的好大家有共識最後最後因為剛剛吳清明委員也有提到那我想很多區域委員都有碰到 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11766.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11780.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
現在主委口口聲聲要捍衛兩岸單一戶籍制度我們沒有反對這個但是你有沒有覺得做法上很擾民有沒有感受到有沒有接受到這樣很多的有我也跟委員這個確實是超過30年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11784.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11809.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
的這個整個問題我們一起解決其實快要到最後面了我們同意要用關懷柔性的方式完整的配套措施我們會主動我們現在除了打電話進來解決之外我們現在還要主動走出去很多的這方面的座談會來舉辦你那個制度做法執行面可不可以想得更完善是是是我們朝這個方面來努力好謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝徐信委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11815.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11826.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
下一位我們請陳培育委員質詢好謝謝主席那有請陸委會主委邱主委謝謝邱主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11844.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11867.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
邱主委剛剛徐信義委員特別問到兩岸有沒有這個所謂的私下傳話有沒有這個密室協商但是我很好奇身為國家重要的民意代表中央等級的民意代表立法委員如果整團十幾個人在野黨帶去密室協商關起門來講什麼我們都不知道身為陸委會可以怎麼協助我們國人確保這件事情是沒有安全疑慮的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11868.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11891.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
跟委員報告 我們一直很期待立法院能夠提報涉密的委員去中國大陸依照我們兩岸條例第九條相關的機制來做許可審查但是我們一直沒有 除了五院 除了立法院沒有提報 其他都已經提報了 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11891.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11910.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
好很可惜喔不過確實民進黨團在這件事情上我們已經有相關表達立場我們認為我們完全尊重您的建議因為五院都必須要同等對待面對敵外境外敵對勢力這件事情我認為在野黨應該也要一起支持不過因為剛剛是徐馨瑋問的這一題我就忍不住好奇喔國民黨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11911.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11925.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
總召帶著國民黨委員去這件事情我認為有相關的國安疑慮不過這不是我今天的問題我要跟您分享另外一個可能在你們過往的涉及業務範圍裡面沒有意識到這裡也有國安危機在2022年當時呢直攔高雄鋼鐵人 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11926.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11949.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
港资案这件事情我不知道你有没有印象2022年那你们处理的方法非常明快果决那面对陆资跟港资要进驻台湾运动团队我不知道后续你们有没有其他的掌握那我这个指控其实是其来有自事实上这几年开始我们看到非常非常多的中资他们花很多钱开始大举收购世界各地的球队 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11950.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11964.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我們都知道收購球隊絕對不是只是為了收購球隊它相關政治文化的配套其實是綁在一起的這個過往的滲透手法其實全世界都已經看得非常清楚了在去年5月我們辦公室收到了一個陳情來自於國立台灣體 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11967.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11980.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
在台中再次强调台中的国立台湾体育运动大学他们在2024年把台湾以及足球联赛的参赛资格从学校端这边转卖给峰会体育有限公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11982.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11996.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
同時在去年的5月31號中華足協也做了這個公告當時我們辦公室收到這個陳情之後呢來下一張我們當然要積極跟教育部了解台體大怎麼可以做這樣的事情怎麼可以把足球協會以及聯賽的參賽資格還有球員的權利轉讓給民間公司到底內部審核發生了什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12004.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12017.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
當時教育部高教師去做一些行政調查當然現在調查結果我們是不滿意的我們辦公室後續會再持續追蹤因為我們來看一下這個公司到底是什麼樣的公司來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12019.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12031.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
好那這個是相關的合約內容就長成這樣好主委你看一下那那個乙方也就是峰會體育有限公司的代表者是馮世文那這個案子真的非常非常的誇張當時在轉讓這個權利的時候呢簽名就只有球隊教練一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12035.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12062.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
是這個事情爆發出來之後發現副校長跟校長才知道當然學校不是您所主管的業務沒關係我們往下看馮世文是誰呢馮世文是來自於峰會體育有限公司的代表人但是他同時也是另外港資跟中資的發言人相關的工作如果我們往下繼續追查好下一張我們懷疑國立大學球隊疑似遭到港資收購我們認為陸委會在這件事情上要進一步了解並且掌握狀況不知道主委你有沒有聽過這個新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12066.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12079.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這個鋼鐵人那個籃球隊鋼鐵人那個沒關係你一定知道對那個反正這個如果有我們國立大學的球隊被港資或中資收購這是我們轉讓出賽權利對你們第一次聽到對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12083.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12088.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
我們辦公室希望透過公開的質詢讓陸委會知道這個事情我要再次強調他絕對不會只是個案我認為有非常多的可能性在後續會發生怎麼說呢事實上我們來看這個我幫你整理這個表格的意思是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12102.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12131.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
不是只有足球事實上排球在台灣由單項協會所主辦的企業聯賽他們都有機會代表台灣去參加所謂國際體育組織所辦理的亞洲賽事也就是他們會代表台灣參加國際賽事而這些球隊背後可能是中資或港資就日委會在維持台灣國安的角度你們認為有沒有疑慮啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12132.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12145.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
還是你覺得沒關係這個案子反正不管是港資中資按照我們兩條例或是港澳關係條例這種投資都必須要由我們許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12146.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12169.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
这个叫投审会机制但是回到刚刚台体大那个完全不用走投审会机制它就是私下就转让出去了因为它是学校的球队所以我认为未来会发展出来的样态可能会非常多元在我们还没有意识到这里已经有渗透的可能性的时候它事实上已经发生了怎么这么说呢因为事实上在台中明后年即将落成一个足球园区 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12170.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12187.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
而這個大型的足球園區他到時候一定需要相關團隊去經營所以假設我用一個比較壞心來想如果我今天是要做滲透的人我在台中先拗有一個球隊我到時候是可不可以去經營這個園區而我拗有這個球隊背後老闆其實是港資跟中資 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12188.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12202.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
所以我要提醒陸委會今天真的是友善的提醒來我們來看一下關於這個台體大的案子我們辦公室後續會願意把相關資料交給陸委會我們希望你們從國安的角度協助我們去理解這個案子後續其他的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12203.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12225.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
第二个关于中国企业在国际的收购持有运动团队的做法我们想要拜托陆委会有没有机会在三个月内协同教育部针对台湾的职业还有企业联赛球队的所有权资金来源进行掌握跟制度性的监控跟相关报告因为这可能过往不在你们的业务规范或者是想象的内容之内 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12226.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12251.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我想中資來台投資我想這個應該都不在許可範圍那我們對於中資來台港資來台除了這個投資許可之外按照兩條例第40條之一他要成立分公司和辦事處那我們對這個查處我們首先要跟主管機關來了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12252.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12277.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
所以這種形態比較特別對 沒錯我們就說台體大這個案子非常特別所以我們是不是來跟主管機關一起來了解這個案子再跟委員來回覆好 那還有我剛剛說的這些企業聯賽的部分我覺得因為之後我們運動部會有所謂全民體育署我們會有更多運動的資源在這些所謂企業聯賽當中這也是我們所擔心的如果台體大只是他們試水溫的一個起點一個敲門磚而我們行政機關都沒有發現後續他們可能就發現這裡有破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12281.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12299.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
他們就可以從這裡切入是好嗎好謝謝委員提供好各位那我們再把相關資訊跟你們討論好謝謝陳委員謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝下一位我們請何欣淳委員質詢何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在下一位我們請李坤澄委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12309.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12311.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
謝謝主席我們請邱主委邱主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12317.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12340.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
主委好 賴總統日前接受民敵選讀的專訪他有提到大公司跟小公司之間比喻兩岸關係我看了他接受專訪的原文他就說中國是比較大的公司 台灣是比較小的公司如果你要騙我的公司 你要提條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12341.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12365.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
不是台灣的一體條件 讓你說要或是不要 而且還說你一定要變成我的一部分然後呢 這個都沒有任何其他的做法這不行啦 台灣是民主社會 人民是國家的主人這人民不會接受的 大概那段專訪的原文是這樣子那我想請教一下 身為陸委會主委 你怎麼去詮釋這個總統會提到這一段 大公司跟小公司合併的問題我覺得從兩岸互動來看 就是對等尊嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12367.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12389.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
而且還要真正有善意尤其現在兩岸的癥結之所在就是中國大陸不肯正視中華民國存在的客觀事實他提出了協商的前提就是在一中原則的九二共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12390.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12406.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
像這樣消滅中華民國 矮化台灣的這個政治潛艇我們是沒有辦法接受的我想國人也無法接受我們每次民調都有超過七成以上的主流民意反對政府接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12407.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12429.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
中共的這個前提來與中國大陸做協商那當然兩岸就因此而無法官方互動所以我們就希望中國大陸還是要回到對等尊嚴的立場正視中華民國事實存在也要正視我們台灣人民對於民主生活的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12432.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12445.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
這個強烈要求這樣才能夠促進兩岸良性互動最主要從這個比喻我覺得是要對台灣有善意那其實目前為止我們沒有看到善意的呈現是比較令人遺憾所以主委認為說總統這個比喻就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12448.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12463.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
這個中國對台灣要有善意那台灣呢就是由人民來決定台灣的前途啦這不是說你今天要併我然後你什麼條件都沒有講然後就是台灣一定要給中國那可是呢 總統這個說法呢受到在野黨的批判說你這個是提統一的條件啊是提那個賣台啊 你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12467.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12479.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
我想這個是過度解讀啦都沒有回到整個文本的脈絡去理解總統的談話那這樣的一些過度解讀我想是不必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12480.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12485.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
總統520談話 大家也會期待總統就職一周年在兩岸這方面會不會有談話 談話內容大家會注意但是我們發現這次總統520談話沒有主動提到兩岸的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12502.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12513.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
然後呢 這個是有記者在問的時候 他在做回答那有時候說跟不說 都有他的意涵在那你主委怎麼看就是說那這一次的這個520的這個就職一周年的總統的這個談話裡面沒有特別提到兩岸還是說這因為在3月13號這個總統在這個國安會議之後已經有說過了這個國安的五大威脅還有17項的陰陰策略這個有這層關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12526.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12549.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我想總統從他上任以來有關他兩岸政策其實談的架構跟內容都蠻豐富的那特別你也提到這個3月13號也有因應中共這個國安威脅統戰的17項因應策略也不斷的在重申那也再度的強調兩岸應該要這個透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12556.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12579.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
如果說以人民福祉為念的話兩岸和平互利互惠共榮共存應該是我們努力的目標也應該透過對等尊嚴進行健康有序的交流跟對話共同迎向和平共榮的目標我想他這個善意不斷的提出來所以我們就呼籲中國大陸一定要正視 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12580.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12598.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我們中華民國存在的客觀事實要傾聽去解讀用心解讀我們所傳達的善意讓兩岸能夠回到這個相向而行的這個途徑我想才能夠真正改變兩岸關係那你覺得中國那邊有聽到了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12599.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12617.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我想就讓他慢慢地去改變畢竟他是一個極權專制的體制他過去對台的政策向來也沒有改變他不改變他的僵化思維那我們就要有戰略定力我們不斷地去影響他 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12619.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12632.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
他內外部的影響我們希望我們能夠營造一個善良方 理性方能夠希望他能夠真正的面對台灣能夠用 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12634.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12660.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
就是對等尊嚴的立場來跟我們交流互動官方互動可能比較困難但是民間的互動應該把它正常化那我們在17項因應的策略也強調我們希望跟中國大陸進行各種健康有序的交流我們希望能夠去統戰化那麼去政治化去風險化讓我們很多民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12661.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12681.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
去中國大陸也能夠在維護他的安全的情況底下做好各種的提醒讓兩岸的交流沒有這些風險要降低風險這就是我們努力的目標所以我們不是不交流我們是怕沒有正常健康有序交流的機會那所以主委認為說這個總統在520這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12683.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12706.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
就是週年談話沒有特別提到這個兩岸問題沒有什麼特別的含義就對了該講的之前都已經有提過了是好 那我最後再問一個就是說根據這個陸委會的臉書這個就是說從去年1月到今年的4月30號有102名國人赴中國大陸在失聯遭留置盤查或是關押那請問一下這個數字102人他目前的樣態是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12710.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12733.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
是失聯了還是被關押了還是說是怎麼樣這個有沒有進一步的訊息跟委員報告我們這個數字都是來跟我們報案的也有跟海基會報案那這個數字我們都有在統計這是有報案的數字對 但是我要跟委員報告沒有報案的數字搞不好更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12733.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12757.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
你認為那個黑數大概有多少?我覺得那個黑數可能是相當驚人的那這是有公文報案的相當驚人是十倍還是百倍?這個很難評估不過我們相信沒有報案的應該更多不過我願意在這個報案裡面相關的樣態跟文報告也就是說撕簾的部分在這個102個有12位遭這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12761.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12788.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
留置盤查的有13位那遭路方關押的有70位目前是這些關押有70位那他們的理由是什麼有各種譬如說詐騙案件或其他的刑事案件或者是一些國安案件也是包括或是參加宗教活動因法律被關押的也有人 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12789.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12806.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
所以這些案件加起來有70人那我要跟委員報告剛剛也提到了這個黑數更多沒有跟我們報案更多所以我們那這部分該怎麼去處理是我們很重視我們國人賦入的人身安全這是最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12808.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12831.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
因為中國大陸一直吸納我們的民眾赴陸招待啦各種的統戰活動但是那個安全也是需要關注特別在成都二十二條之後國人赴陸的安全是明顯的升高連我們的一貫道親戚這個交流現在還沒回來那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12832.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12856.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
我們要呼籲國人啊,赴陸一定要有安全的思考,要審慎的評估,做好安全的準備如果你還是要去的話,一定要像上我們陸委會,陸港澳,赴陸港澳登錄的系統你有登錄的資訊,多一份登錄就多一份安全萬一有什麼事情,我們可以找到聯繫的方式提供及時的援助 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12856.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12861.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我們還是透過管道過去我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及私保互助的機制雖然陸方往往用政治理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12875.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12892.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
無法讓這個機制產生作用但是我們還是透過各種可能的管道去關切 是不是在關江那邊也希望陸方要重視這些人的司法人權也要跟他在台的家屬聯繫那我們陸委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12896.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12920.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
海基會都有一個專案會去每一個家庭去做各種的訪問提供必要的協助好時間有限先問到這邊謝謝主席謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝相關資料請會後詳細提供好謝謝下一位我們請林俊憲委員林俊憲委員林俊憲委員不在鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在下一位我們請邱志偉委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12932.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12958.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
謝謝是不是邀請陸委會邱主委邱主委有請邱委員好謝謝主委主委辛苦了我想這個影響兩岸關係可操之在我們就是我們政策要規劃好要執行好非操之在己的部分就是中國內部的因素中國內部因素包括權力鬥爭第一個它這個經濟成長的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12961.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12976.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
第三個就是社會穩定的狀況從這個角度來看今年以來啊今年以來中共高層中國高層這個權力鬥爭的狀況有沒有比去年更為激烈 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12977.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13003.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
根文報告這個中共高層如果以他們仍然強調八項規定反貪打腐那麼以今年這個副部級以上中管幹部落馬的人數有20位其中三位是正部級的我想這方面這以反貪 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13004.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13030.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
把重要的官員這個雙規的還是蠻嚴重的那這些指示大概是來自於許晉平嘛如果是正部級的所以許晉平對於處置這些他下面的這些官員他力道越大有可能造成更大的反彈那我看是他的力道從來沒有小過好像一年比一年更為強烈那您預估他的領導地位啊許晉平領導地位 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13034.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13034.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
會不會弱化 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13035.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13063.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
是 包括我們剛剛講的是一般的這個違反派上規定 反貪打腐的部分那麼尤其對軍方的高級將領的一一的去職從何偉東這個軍委的副主席開始那麼我們看到很多的軍事將領也因案被查那您剛剛有提到這個習近平是穩不穩那我 我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13065.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13089.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我們判斷他還是權力很穩定都可以正常的出國他的行程還是大刀闊斧的進行內部的這個人員整數然後當然我覺得一定會某種程度會更多的反彈另外一個他執政基礎就是經濟成長經濟穩定那你看川普的關稅政策對美國當然勢必造成直接的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13091.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13104.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
那經濟如果往下行往下修那會讓他的統治基礎執政基礎弱化是那您覺得這個今年或者到明年中國的經濟狀況會不會因此弱化從2022年中國大陸的經濟就不斷的惡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13110.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13136.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
2020年開始從它解封之後我想它復甦的力道經濟這個提振的預振法律仍然情勢在惡化加上這個您剛剛提到的跟美中之間的關稅戰以及未來的科技戰那麼我想中國大陸現在的經濟發展受到很大的壓力那加上我們從中國大陸的統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13139.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13162.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
數據來看一方面有很多統計數據都不真實也被蓋牌那也發現很多矛盾的地方那這個對外資的出走也是造成一個原因因為你這個前景不明數字失真他們無法繼續投資所以我們看外資一直在出走 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13162.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13184.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
外資出走投資不振所以經濟下行經濟惡化直接衝擊就是民生或者產業產業沒有上來民生往下行當然影響所有經濟成長的山下馬車都是老百姓如果對生活充滿了抱怨或者充滿了不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13185.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13204.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那他們當然是會直接衝擊到這個他們國家的社會穩定對不對那覺得他們社會穩定習近平的政權如果去維持現行的在經濟狀況那麼糟糕的情況之下他還能維持一定的控制讓他社會穩定他是用什麼方法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13205.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13225.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
跟委員報告我們也了解習政權面臨到內外交迫空權的挑戰不管是你剛剛講的內部經濟面也引發了停工潮這個停工潮很快就變失業潮中國大陸現在每年有1200萬的大學畢業生要就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13229.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13252.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
非常的嚴重那這個就會有社會問題那對整個政權的穩定度就會產生影響不過我們也看到中國大陸各種的經濟工作包括也在積極的在創造更多的經濟的能量輔助經濟的這個穩定他們有四穩三保的一個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13253.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13273.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以他們的不利因素包括經濟社會穩定包括他們政治權力鬥爭我想好像都沒有比過去有改善所以我們當然只能本身做最好的準備那一點點時間再請教海基會吳董事長吳董事長有請謝謝吳董事長還有邱志偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13280.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13302.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
就是說兩岸人民交流吳董事長是德高望重那對兩岸關係我想他是一個非常重要的這個董事長這個位置非常重要一定可以做很多事情就是兩岸人民交流我想請教邱主委今年一到四月國能附中的人數有沒有這個數字我們都有那比起去年同期是減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13311.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13334.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
跟去年差不多沒有旅行目的嘛都是商務嘛你說中國大陸來的不夠國人附中很多都是旅遊的也有也有旅遊,就沒有船客嘛對不對因為它自由行本來我們就是尊重人數比去年同期是降今年第一季今年一到四月應該是降嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13339.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13365.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
1到3月是44萬如果以去年的話我們是277萬就是下降嘛有人說是不是為邦不入啦但是兩岸還是有某種程度不像商務啦或者這個人員的交流這個是存在的所以海紀委吳董事長這邊扮演很重要的角色啦但是第一個我考慮到人身安全國人富中他人身安全很重要那提到港澳 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13366.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13376.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
當然港澳目前變成一中化了你去香港澳門跟你去中國這個本土一樣因為我就不敢從香港轉機您認為我適合從香港轉機嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13381.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13395.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我想委員過去有從香港轉機的經驗不要不讓我入境對 並不愉快那我們也建議如果沒有必要 盡量不要那也希望委員要轉機 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13396.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13407.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
眷屬我覺得應該比較沒問題不過委員有需要都通知我們醫生那我們來幫你做安全評估第二個不用啦 我不會去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13412.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13439.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我想我們從我們進入香港我們要坦白就是說我們從這個香港開始有兩個國安法一個是港版國安法一個是他們的國安條例國安二法實施以來我們也很關注我們國人是不是入境有因為被國安室友被逮捕的截至目前為止還沒有案例出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13440.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13466.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
但是我們不能說就掉以輕心謝謝謝謝主委我想請教吳董事長就是吳董事長我想請教您對於當前兩岸關係您的看法是怎樣這個問題好大沒關係就是您個人很大我知道有沒有什麼具體的未來不知道一年內你覺得必須要完成的當前兩岸的這個關係就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13468.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13492.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我們中華民國信仰和平主義中華人民共和國公開講還是無同實際的作為上我們沒有激進到大陸它不斷激進到台灣我們不搞衝突混亂它一直衝突混亂可是我認為中共慢慢的應該會發覺和平 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13499.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13508.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
還是對他比較好真要對台動武的話他也完蛋所以我對兩岸的和平發展我審慎樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13510.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13530.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
現在情況就這樣子好 謝謝董事長 謝謝邱志偉好 謝謝邱志偉委員下一位我們請陳樹越委員陳樹越委員 陳樹越委員不在下一位我們請林楚瑩委員林楚瑩委員 林楚瑩委員不在下一位我們請鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員 鄭振淺委員不在下一位我們請陳雪生委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13539.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13542.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
謝謝主席,是不是請吳董事長吳董事長有請吳董事長早董事長以前在馬祖海基會沒有派人現在海基會有派個人在那邊嗎?您瞭解他吃什麼飯做什麼事嗎?吃什麼飯做什麼事 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13567.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13568.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
吃什麼飯? |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13568.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13568.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
做什麼事? |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13568.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13574.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
你有瞭解嗎?好 沒關係 底下的人來 誰?委員好 我是副秘書長李寶文 副秘書長你派的人是誰?目前派是一位誠信的專委在那邊做什麼事每天? |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13589.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13615.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
基本上他在這邊就是處理民眾諮詢的一個事項什麼 發員工薪水不是 不是發員工薪水是處理民眾各式各樣諮詢的事項兩岸人民相關的事項有沒有具體的工作內容我們給他的工作內容是包含就是說第一個 他必須每天彙整在馬祖當地兩岸事務的一個語情並且製作工作週報那第二個就是拜會地方有週報回來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13617.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13640.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
有是那拜會哪個地方的誰就我這邊所知道的是拜會過馬祖的紅十字會還有這個內政部的移民組的連江站相公所新移民協會還有馬祖海巡隊部法院地檢署地方媒體以及其他相關的媒體每天在拜會有什麼事具體的內容工作的內容項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13642.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13649.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
還包含文書驗證諮詢的服務文書驗證是他的範圍嗎文書驗證諮詢的服務諮詢喔我告訴你他才沒事做每天在網路上胡說八道寫什麼東西我告訴你啊寫說我們北竿機場改建他的配套你罵誰啊每天在網路上罵縣政府罵我們陳雪生立法委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13672.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13697.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
你要罵交通部部長嘛 叫他下台啊罵民航局嘛 局長叫他下台啊你罵縣政府每天在網路上攻擊這些幹什麼飯吃太多了 閒著沒事做是交通部跟民航局主政欸不是縣政府主政 也不是我主政欸我是民意代表而已欸每天在那邊搗蛋嘛 你懂了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13698.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13719.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
這地方有什麼幫助?幫了老闆你怎麼忙?什麼狗屁都沒做叫他到民進黨黨部去好了這跟保文這邊認知有點不太一樣事實上根據他所回報相關的資料董事長我不為難他這個人工作可以換一換吧不然他可以減薪他什麼出身的,馬上給他一個專門委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13725.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13748.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
公務員考試了嗎?第一個就是海基會並不需要公務員相關的資格第二個是他目前的薪水應該還不是啦但他的目前的薪資是臨時人員的薪資啦所以比較起來應該不是非常高的薪資做點正事嘛到那邊跟地方政府搗蛋啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13750.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13774.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我們會請他強化...我們靠北海機場有經過評估的勒是不是?我們...我在那邊陳倍宇委員我也跟他講我們和睦相處齁我們共同為這個島上的人民努力這個也是我們的目標是不是?不是啊每天在網路上攻擊啊應該是這樣說啦就是我們會...我再發現的話齁我還會來天天來找你們算賬我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13775.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13798.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
你們長官都不管了喔?如果委員有需求的話,歡迎隨時提出來這樣子,每三個月給我一次,他在做什麼事,好不好?我要看,我要看我等到預算我要看喔,你不要怪我把它刪掉囉再不違反我們內部規定的情況之下,可以提供給委員,這個沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13800.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13823.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
違反你們什麼規定立法委員知道你們在那邊胡作非為胡作八道我不能講話私人的一個行為應該不在海基會工作的範圍之內假設他在網路上個人的發言他可以到台灣搞太陽花學運啦不要到馬祖那邊搞什麼運動啦我跟你講啦算七八糟啦如果這個是他個人私人的行為的話個人開除啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13825.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13844.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
你們不用考核的啊你們不用考核嗎考核的部分應該是根據他的工作成果沒有工作啊 做什麼他還跟中共打電話嗎他可以到對面去嗎我們會查清楚好啊 你請回 董事長謝謝還請邱主委邱主委有請陳委員你看陳某人向中共投入了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13855.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13882.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
我想委員愛鄉愛國大家都非常了解我們相識很多年了我也告訴過你我的祖先我的祖先我祖父祖母所有的親人我台灣沒有半個親人祖墳都在大陸以前都是中國對不對我們都是中國人講得好好的現在中國也不能講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13885.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13902.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
連打麻將五筒都不能自摸啊這什麼話嘛你說我們言論有什麼自由理想報告委員我們還是尊重國人他這個文化跟血緣的這個認同五一八他們招商會兩岸進門馬走都有去你們就提出監察委員說王安中民縣長在裡面什麼什麼什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13914.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13940.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
沒有會議紀錄,有什麼會議紀錄啊我們也沒開會也沒幹什麼的委員我們有跟縣政府做很好的聯絡市長委員吃飽飯了嗎,不要亂寫啊不,我們也尊重監委的調查我們是在保護我們交流啦你能夠保護誰啊大陸老闆說的是你們能夠保護誰我們協助他不要違反現行的兩岸規定人被抓起來我馬上知道他的訊息你絕對不知道我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13943.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13970.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
你們怎麼知道中共抓了什麼人在幹什麼,你不知道,我會知道喔但是我問你,我絕對不是中共同路人不是說中國國民黨黨籍的都是中共同路人這什麼話嘛我們支持兩岸交流,但是應該要去統戰兩岸交流啦我們龍馬的錯商會行之有年去那邊幹什麼呢就談一間我們酒怎麼樣賣到馬尾去免稅能夠入關是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13971.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13988.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
變成福州的嗜酒,我們想賺點錢啊,是不是?我們學生交流兩岸互動,學生交流你怕我們被統戰?我這次去大陸啊,我告訴老公啊,你們統戰我是我在統戰你們,你搞清楚喔!馬祖被統戰了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13990.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14000.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
福瑪搓衫會因為涉及到很多項目是跟公權力有關我們還是希望我們是說我們不要讓縣政府的人觸訪所以我們要協助他金門到了廈門就跑到北京去了我們有嗎都聽你們的指示嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14013.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14025.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
是我們很感謝縣政府我們中央地方一起協力我們去交流但是不要被統戰這一次五一長假我們來了多少人你有得到勤制嗎你說觀光客是嗎我告訴你二十幾個人一共二十幾個人丟臉了我跟你講金門去了一萬多個人為什麼人家不想來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14040.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14050.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
人家來一個團,你告訴我三分之一現在你們怎麼又變成五分之一啊?中共的官員變成五分之一三分之一,為什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14051.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14081.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
先讓他們進來嘛看看裡面的環境嘛當然馬祖很像被你們陸委會卡來卡去移民署怎麼卡我們都沒有卡我們都非常歡迎我們中國大陸的旅客到金門馬祖像金門是人數比較多我們也很想了解也協助了解為什麼你們開放的比金門還要早為什麼平均只有一天六個人我們也覺得很納悶好 邱主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14082.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14098.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
我再問你,陸配,人家辦了三十年了,都沒事,現在要回去查我告訴對面的國台辦宋主任,請他幫個忙他們基層的這一些台辦都已經調走了,換人退休死亡了,去哪裡拿? |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14101.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14128.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
民主大陸辦這個證那麼好辦嗎辦不出來啊應該沒有問題啦只要跟我們聯繫那我們也會替他聯絡對岸的公安派出所你不要把他當匪諜嘛沒有沒有我們是在幫助他合法取得台灣的身份不要被質疑那麼我們兩岸人流往來身份的這個單一戶籍制是最重要的一個基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14129.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14155.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
你說外配對你們陸委會都大拇指嘛齁你一轉身就是這樣子我告訴你你一轉身就是這樣子你一來就是這樣子你聽懂我的意思吧我理解我理解但是我們是真心誠意的在協助關懷來協助我們陸配完成他那個法律的要求要人家發自內心的勒我要對你抱著感恩的心勒是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14157.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14178.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
他現在對你們抱著仇恨的心你知道嗎你知道嗎那天為什麼他們遊行很多人是不敢來很多人不敢來怕被你們照相以後又弄回去了你懂了沒有我的情志告訴你我絕對比你正確我們在搞民意的是不是請你們注意一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14186.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14212.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
還有陸委會的功能你要地方政府不要健康有序的交流你們中央陸委會跟海基會吳董事長當然在兩岸德高望重啦你說和平啊,我看很像不是這樣你說對等啊,怎麼對等法嘛他不會跟你對等的啦永遠不會跟你對等的啦台灣有一天被老美賣掉你都不知道,我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14213.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14239.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
被老美賣掉,你不講你試試看看啊,台積電沒啦你被美國人賣掉你都不知道你要兩個人均衡發展嘛,是不是蔡英文當總統的時候有聲音嗎?沒有聲音啊,我想吳董事長你很清楚嘛是不是,講話要小心嘛誒,烏克蘭死多少人啊你們沒娶老婆的到烏克蘭去老婆一個人可以娶三個,我告訴你是這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14242.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14252.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
現在連女生都不准出來了連女人都要去打仗陸委會的功能是什麼請坐陸委會的功能是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14254.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14280.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
沒有功能嘛 你在幹嘛我想我們自力維護兩岸關係和平穩定邱主任你不要跟我講官話啦不是官話 你講官話我也會講啊我們兩岸健康有序的交流幹什麼我也會講啊 講得很漂亮啊你說中國經濟很差很差很差我剛回來啊他們預防特朗普上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14282.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14310.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
早就在搞擴大內需了我跟你講沒有那麼慘全世界哪一個經濟不是在下滑的只有中國大陸嗎人家說習近平快死了,我看他健康得很走路跟我一樣有點慢你們不要這樣子搞古遙巴行之有年你們不要這樣子搞好不好我們是在協助地方政府也在保護他們不要觸法你已經讓步了,派民主黨去 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14311.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14333.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
民進黨不了,我心裡有感受,不是沒感受兩岸健康有序交流,沒有做任何會議紀錄,沒有幹什麼,你們為什麼這樣刁難但是不要觸法,我們是避免,比如說你剛剛說那個駙馬出商會,那個就有觸法的嚴重嫌疑那我也觸法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14335.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14361.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
我想我們監察院也在關注,我們應該協助地方政府可以交流,但是不要觸發我看我們沒有言論自由了,去大陸講話要小心喔搞不好就是匪諜去對面啦,人家中共官員也沒做什麼紀錄也沒幹什麼北京也沒有講說,你跟某某台灣官員見面要寫報告來,沒有啊我們這裡很嚴格 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14364.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14392.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
請你們注意一下好不好你不要把我當匪諜啦 我也不是匪諜我真的很生氣啊 邱主委我連人跟你打電話打了一個多鐘頭我真的很生氣我跟你講我們是很好的朋友欸怎麼搞成這個樣子咧我想我們出發點就是幫忙地方政府幫忙不要違法吳董事長你回去交代底下查一下齁你派個人在那邊幫我們地方政府嘛怎麼在跟我們搗戰每天咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14394.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14411.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
這怎麼可以這樣子搞啊 是不是我沒有監視他啊他的一舉一動 我們的鄉親都會跟我回報每個村 每個里 每個戶都會向我回報我那裡不是極權統治喔這是民心嘛 是不是好不好 謝謝主席對不起啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14415.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14428.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
這希望我們兩岸關係好一點對不對大家就不會這麼多的誤會要在這邊釐清好吧好謝謝陳學生委員的質詢下面請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在下面請蔡議員蔡議員蔡議員不在OK |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14429.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14449.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
跟委員會報告登記已發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢我們尋答到此結束高興樹莓委員丁學中委員牛雪婷委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報書面質詢與未及答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會本會到此結束現在散會 |