| IVOD_ID |
16691 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16691 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-22-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-21T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-21T12:57:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:27:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373dc04fde1d52825d899b5fa2f296a93534a12e9ca99aa835c0ceb8f666409c94995ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案6案。
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案9案。
三、處理114年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院單位預算解凍案1案。
（5月21日及5月22日二天一次會）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 12:57:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
72.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
72.915 |
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谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
144.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
144.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
220.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
220.706 |
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嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1819.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1831.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告委員會初期委員10人以足法定人數現在開始開會本週三四為一次會首先進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1833.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1855.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期教育及文化委員會第十一次全體委員會議議事錄是兼中華民國一四年五月十五日上午九時至十二時十分地點本案全選後101會議室出席委員葛如君十四人列席委員林德虎等四人列席人員國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌蕭宗煌帥童有關人員主席葛昭吉委員如君 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1856.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1876.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
報告事項 一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定二 處理114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算公務預算解凍書面報告案五案討論事項 處理114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算公務預算解凍專案報告兩案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1878.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1902.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本次議程採綜合詢答由委員葛如軍等13人提出質詢軍警國立故宮博物院院長蕭忠煌及相關人員及其答覆說明另由委員林沛翔提出書面質詢決議一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報三 對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1903.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1915.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
四、一一四年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算解凍案期案審查完均均准以動之提報院會通過臨時提案一項宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1918.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1947.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
議事錄宣讀完畢但是現在在場委員未達議決人數三人所以議事錄暫不確定那今天的議程有三個一處理114年度中央政府總預算有關中央研究院主管預算公務預算解凍案六案二處理114年中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算公務預算解凍案九案三處理114年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院單位預算解凍案一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1947.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1974.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
首先我們先介紹在場委員有柯志恩委員那這邊因為劉書斌委員他從5月17到5月22參加瑞士內內瓦第78屆世界衛生大會立委指導團所以他會在這一週的教文委員會請假關於執行的部分那再來我們介紹與會的官員首先我們先介紹中央研究院院長廖俊志廖院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1976.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1994.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那副院長也在齁中央研究院副院長周美瑩周副院長那其他的我們就先簡略齁那接下來介紹防災安全委員會主任委員陳明珍陳主委那還有接下來介紹我們行政院主計總署公務預算處專門委員黃子涵謝謝黃專委 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2002.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2017.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
現在處理114年度中央政府總計算案有關中央研究院核能安全委員會以及行政法人國家原子能科技研究院主管預算解凍書面報告案計14案請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2020.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2042.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
處理一一四年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院主管預算公務預算解凍案五案一中央研究院函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議一列以一一四年度編列預算編列一四三億五千四百八十七萬兩千元凍結一百萬元是中央研究院向立法院教育及文化委員會提出書面報告後使得動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2043.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2053.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
二 中央研究院函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議二列以一一四年度第一幕一般行政預算編列三億三百一十二萬八千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2055.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2079.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
動結50萬元是中央研究院向立法院教育及文化委員會提出書面報告後使得動之三 中央研究院函為2014年度中央政府總預算決議三列以2014年度第二幕一般學術研究及評議預算編列74億6662萬元動結100萬元是中央研究院向立法院教育及文化委員會提出書面報告後使得動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2080.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2104.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
是 中央研究院函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議事略以一一四年度第二幕一般學術研究及評議第二節學術研究及人才培育向下基本行政工作維持費預算編列十一億九千八百二十九萬九千元 共結九百萬元是中央研究院向立法院教育及文化委員會提出書面報告後 使得動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2105.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2132.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
五 中央研究院函為一一四年度中央政府總預算結議五列以一一四年度第四幕南部縣區編列預算六億五千一百三十一萬三千元凍結一百萬元是中央研究院向立法院教育及文化委員會提出順便報告後使得動之處理一一四年度一中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算公務預算解凍案八案一 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2133.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2158.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
核能安全委員會函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第二款第十二項新增決議二十八游離輻射安全防護預算凍結一百萬元書面報告請查詐案二核能安全委員會函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第二款第十二項新增決議三十三核物料管制業務預算凍結一百萬元書面報告請查詐案 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2159.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2179.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
三 核能安全委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第二款第十二項決議一 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案四 核能安全委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第二款第十二項決議二 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2183.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2209.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
五 核能安全委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第二款第十二項決議三 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案六 核能安全委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第二款第十二項決議四 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案七 核能安全委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第二款第十二項決議五 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2213.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2236.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
八 核能安全委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第二款第二十二項決議六預算凍結書面報告請查詐案處理一一四年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院單位預算解凍案一案核能安全委員會函為行政法人國家原子能科技研究院一一四年度預算決議減送決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2246.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2258.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
以上書面報告案計14案已宣讀完畢但是我們現在人數不足3人我們等一下再處理那現在請中央研究院廖院長進行報告報告時間6分鐘稍微各位委員今天很高興來大院向各位報告專案及預算解凍報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2274.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2298.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
首先本院凍結的數目總計為十一億六千兩百一十萬三千元那分為兩大項在委員會凍結的部分總計一千兩百五十萬元向教育及文化委員會提出說明報告後使得凍資其中包括整體凍結一百萬元一般行政凍結五十萬元一般學術研究及評議凍結一百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2299.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2310.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一般學術研究及評議學術研究與人才培育基本行政工作維持維持費凍結900萬元南部院區凍結100萬元院會凍結中央醫院業務費不含約用人員酬金30%計11億4963萬向教育及文化委員會提出預算執行情形專案報告並經同意後使得動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2326.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2330.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那在教育文化委員會動資的部分我們書面報告已函送大院 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2332.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2356.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
在院會凍結的部分計11億4963元那要向教文會委員會提出預算執行情形之後有專案報告並經同意後使得凍值那受影響的業務工作計畫呢包括一般行政有467萬9千元學術研究與人才培育5億5370萬8千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2359.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2365.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
數理科學研究方面有1億8171萬元生命科學研究方面有2億5843萬元人文及社會科學研究有9812萬元南部縣區有6547萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2378.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2394.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
本院與一般行政機關的業務費性質有很大的差別一般行政機關的業務費主要用途是在行政事務費本院的業務費主要用途是支持研究、國內外交流、實驗儀器運作與人才培育等 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2396.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2423.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
其中包括物品的構置其中包括各項研究中所需要的消耗性及非消耗性物品但實驗工作一旦展開無法中途任意變更或停止對於研究推展進行至關重要一般事務費除了以通商10%之外有盤凍結這部分包括論文發表、出盤印刷品、暑期實習生、天文台運轉費等等是為了要促進 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2425.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2448.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
研究成果的發表與傳播,支撐研究單位日常運作與學術影響力的提升息息相關水電費方面,用於實驗室、實驗、電腦機房、文物館各種專有的實驗室設備需要用,確保實驗和儀器的穩定性與可靠性維持本院各單位研究與行政工作的基本運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2450.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2462.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
在設施及機械設備費我們需要維持研究的效率品質安全性與持續性確保研究工作的順利進行那房屋建築養護費除了通商5%之外我們需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2466.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2479.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
有維護本院各建築物使用的安全本院遷至南港院區已經70年有些建築已經逐漸老化必須要提前本院形象及最重要的是安全的顧慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2482.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2504.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
權利使用費包括使用專利權、智慧財產權、商標權的各種專利而需按期支付的相關權利金費用如訂購電子資料庫、特定軟體有助於了解相關領域最新技術發展和研究趨勢與全國研究人員共享電子資源這方面都是由眾議院出讓跟大家一起共享 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2506.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2521.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
在资讯服务费方面面对日域是越复杂的网络威胁确保各项研究资料和系统的安全这是我们维持国际学术竞争力的重要保障国外旅游方面除了以通案三减百分之十而且不得流用之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2523.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2542.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們又有這個凍結的部分那這部分是用於研究人員出國參加國際會議學術交流進行國際學術訪問合作及田野調查等以為了掌握最新的研究趨勢和技術促進國際合作交流提升能見度 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2544.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2571.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
其他業務包括穩定的資源進行各種跨國研究資源大型計算維護網路安全等等其中譬如說包括濾金研究船是用於海洋能海洋生態系等研究調查對於我國發展再生能源發電至為重要除此之外岸日計酬案件對於學術交流學術出版等等也非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2573.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2586.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
通案刪解的部分本院也有很多影響比如研究進度的延宕人才培育受影響貴重儀器設備及維護遭遇困難研究資源受限等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2589.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2613.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
本院已经在这个环境之下积极控管协调但是各研究所中心科研需求十分相似得以协调空间是有限以遭通山又遭冻结部分科目不得留用更压缩调节的弹性各项应变措施虽然能够解决短期的问题但是难以支撑长期稳定的发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2616.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2626.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
本院将持续推动基础研究与尖砖研究为国家的永续发展贡献情理建请大院同意本院各项预算解冻以增进我们的竞争力 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2630.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2656.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
最後由於本人須出席一項重要的國際會議及本院前副院長之告別式並帶總統頒發保養令以向大院告假並致電召委及在院長萬元獲得諒解但是本人會留到前面兩位委員諮詢完畢之後再行離開接下來答詢將由本院對預算閒熟的周副院長代勞懇請大院支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2659.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2685.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
謝謝梁副院長進行報告也感謝你這麼敬業你剛下飛機就趕過來謝謝那現在請回座那在核能安全委員會陳主委進行報告之前因為我們現場委員人數已達一決人數我們先確定一數入請問各位委員上次會議一數入有錯誤或遺漏之處沒有那一數入確定那接下來我們先來確認一下我們剛才宣讀的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2687.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2701.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
十四個解凍素面報告請問大家有沒有意見沒有意見喔那就准予被查提報院會那接下來我們請核能安全委員會陳主任委員進行報告報告時間六分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2711.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2724.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
主席各位委員女士先生大家好今天請代表核能安全委員會並且同相關主管就一一四年度稅出預算審議決議向大院委員提出報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2726.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2740.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
大院审议114年度核安会及所属预算共有9项冻结案总计冻结1亿3441万元令国家原子能科技研究院一项冻结案冻结50万元 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2742.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2766.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
核安会及所属业务系执行核能安全、辐射防护和物料安全管制、紧急应变准备、环境辐射侦测、国际合作交流、科普宣导及科技研发等重要业务之经费来源。以下请就委员关切议题进行说明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2769.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2795.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
目前国内核电厂的运转期执照都已经届期依法停止运转进入除疫期间在用过核子燃料移除反应炉及用过燃料池前本会持续管制台电公司比照运转期间的规定执行用过核子燃料安全相关系统设备的维护测试作业 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2796.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2821.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
有关干事主持人议题台电公司已完成合一场室外干处设施热测试作业本会审查后于5月1日核发运转执照台电公司于1月开始新建合一场室外干处设施后本会每月持续派员执行新建品质安全检查 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2823.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2848.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
台电公司为满足核电厨艺需求分别在各电厂增设一座低放主层设施合一厂三号库部分本会于113年7月发给建造执照另外台电公司已于今年5月提出合一厂四号库建造执照申请本会将严密执行审查作业 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2849.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2876.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
在游离辐射安全管制方面规划办理业者辅导检查并持续办理辐射屋居民检检及关怀访视此外推动新一代辐射源管理系统高风险辐射源科技监控与戒指人员自主学习网等并持续进行辐射辐防法修法作业强化安全管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2879.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2899.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
因应日本寒川废水长达30年之排放本会与成立跨部会因应平台执行海水渔货物及日本输入食品之辐射监测本会与卫福部也于2013年完成食品生物川检验量能提升至每年2000件以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2900.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2915.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
此外本会亦持续海水取样计划涵盖特定海域的多点监测以强化数据比对与长期趋势分析另外亦积极协调日本进行技术交流与海水检测分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2917.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2932.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
国园院SMR研发部分1月4年投入经费约2000多万元,针对核电厂被动式安全机制、反应器动态模拟及压水式SMR关键炉心特性的进行评估与分析。 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2935.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2954.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
推动民众参与民众沟通方面,除自办原子能科技科普展外,亦持续推广校园原子能科普教育,并建议全民参与事务咨询会专业意见交流,提升管制政策透明度与社会信任。 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2955.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2981.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
有关核事故民众防护宣传部分本会持续透过宣传影片家庭访问等方式深耕核安防护之能此外考量国内已储备足够量点片对目前暂存于国家点片储存库中已超过保存年限的点片将于6月半里销毁作业 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2983.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3011.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
接下来进行国务院院预算冻结报告部分在专利人才管理方面国务院院预5年未运用专利比例从1亿3年降至17.75%专利维护费则减少至660万元列以拟定1亿3至1亿6发展目标及计划合理控管原额并审慎规划办理人员领选领补作业 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3012.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3026.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
國研院執行小產源低放射性廢棄物接受並進行儲物減容減量及安定化作為另就接收之非固體廢棄物進行儲物以符合法規標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3027.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3048.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
有关核融合技术方面第一期计划已完成FIRST装置的细部设计第二期将聚焦于FIRST装置的建造与性能测试一四年将进行装置组件采购与组装一五年完成系统整合一六年进入运转测试以上报告敬请各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3049.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3066.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
委員卓珊不盡之處 敬請委員參閱相關書面報告敬請各位委員會議之事 同意各項預算之解凍以利本會各項工作的推動延續 達成工作目標再次感謝委員的支持 謝謝現在進行綜合詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3075.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3096.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
每位出席委員質詢時間8分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘方言登記截止時間為上午11時委員如有臨時提案請於上午10時30分前提出並與本會委員吳佩奕委員質詢結束後進行解凍專案報告案及臨時提案處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3098.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3106.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
處理提案時,若提案委員及連署委員均不在場,原例不予處理首先請發言登記第一位柯志恩委員質詢謝謝昭倫,我們是不是請廖院長請廖院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3115.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3137.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
科委員早院長早我想今天在場不管是河岸會或是中研院大概是我們本院當中學歷應該是最高的所以每個人都是應該用證據來說話我不覺得應該所以說這個解凍案不僅是要來看看各位的報告到底有沒有辦法符合解凍的標準其實也要做一些訊息的一個釐清這點院長應該同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3139.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3166.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
好 我们就先来看今年当初我们在做这个预算的时候还没有定论之前就有非常多人来告诉我们很多的业务费会被删减到只剩下一块钱而且中研院也发布了为了全国科学研究跟人才培育来请命有三千位的约聘助理薪资可能会因为遭到删减或冻结将会影响到同仁的生计请问院长这件事情有发生吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3166.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3186.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這是在跟委員溝通之前是沒錯你覺得我們可能以我們跟中研院的默契我們會把你們這樣的經費刪到一塊錢嗎你覺得有可能嗎有需要這份大動作來告訴大家我們可能會影響到中研院每一個人的生計嗎我覺得有必要做這樣一個聲紋嗎一塊錢不是我們講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3187.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3216.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那有必要去做到这样的一个声明你看媒体的报道到这么多或许不是你讲但是有非常多的媒体做这样的一个处理中研院还是做这样的一个声明院长我只能告诉你本委员会对中研院是非常的支持的而且这样的一个讯息以你们的判断在没有得到实际的素质之前没有道理去告诉好像是就一副我们就会把中研院影响到每个造成非常大的一个讯息上的混淆 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3217.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3238.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
這也是本席要強烈提出來抗議的報告委員當初我們是非常感謝教文會的大力協助可是在院會當中提出這個很大的刪減項目我們當初也立即跟三個黨團的負責人召委來協商但是都 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3239.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3256.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我们就一一来去看我现在先表明这样的一个部分恐怖付不出三千人的这个薪水这不应该是由中研院来而且也不可能会发生事实证明到现在为止也没有发生这是我要一定要提到的接下来我们一一来沟通之后就确实是可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3257.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3271.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
你沒有溝通到最後的協商最後的結果也會是這樣子沒有人會去對中研院的預算你應該從過去長期以來你要對我們有信心這是我要第一個提到的第二個我們先來看到現在我們再來第二個提到所以我對於你們發這樣的一個訊息你是讓我們大家做傻的耶以我們跟你們的默契不應該是有這樣子的一個狀況接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3281.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3297.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好 那我们就一来看到底影响有多少业务费被冻结了12亿元包括我们就举个例子出差费等等之类的你告诉我们被砍的食物可能会影响到国际社会认为台湾不重视科研那院长我们就一一来去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3297.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3301.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
以113年跟114年來說我們就算是山減就是我們統三大概是差距是1.01%但是呢你以國外的差旅費來說我們增幅是13而且你的山減率說實在差10%在我們往下我會讓院長有機會來看一下然後呢我們所凍結的這些部分當中呢當然義務費包山包海 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3322.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3336.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
其中涵盖这个国外的旅费的部分里面呢大陆大概删了30%国外大概删了15%然后你们告诉我院长在这个国外的彩旅费当中你认为是在我们的业务费当中是占多少吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3337.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3345.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
因為是主要是不得留用這一項我們再來看我們似乎來找出解方事實上國外的參與費在整體的業務費當中是1.71%然後呢 凍結我幫你算出來金額是3635如果你把統山加上這個預算這個部分你大概是總額是5000多萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3357.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3365.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
但是你知道嗎雖然這個地方不能挪用還有一筆基金不是在我們今天討論範圍就是你114年度的你科研基金編列的差旅費是多少嗎你知道比113年科研基金裡面的差旅費也是你們可以使用的告訴院長增加了7047增幅是51.4% |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3378.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3398.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以不管是国外的旅费或是大陆的旅费大幅的增加其中国外的餐饮费正超过六成大陆已经超过五倍这完全超过你这次的公务预算的煽动的这个预算了院长你有没有看到这个这是因为今年起由于这个COVID-19已经全面解除你可以来做这个部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3399.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3421.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這突然間增加很多各所都有需要我只是告訴你院長的解方你不能告訴我你因為沒有這些公務預算大家都好像不認為我們就是學術的這個研究所影響你的科研基金我告訴院長你科研基金通常來說你基金政府機關即便沒有經過三讀你們還是會先用了再說而且都是到年底才敢審完 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3422.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3432.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所以即使我們有一般公務的一般的刪減你的這個基金你還是可以來做這樣的一個使用你何來告訴我你們中研院沒有錢可以讓這些學術單位出國去旅行呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3433.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3443.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
據我了解這分兩個部分因為我們的預算都是分到各計畫各所中心不是統籌在院本部一個大水庫在用我只是告訴你當然但是這個部分裡面你還是可以透過不同的方法而且我還要直指院長你們中原的編法其實有違反的原則你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3455.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3461.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
你如果看到主技術所公布的這樣子一個附屬機關裡面的特別基金是特別是大陸地區或是國外的旅費你不能夠超過前一年的預算數你們中研院這次編的還是有超過我們都可以不用管基本上面你們只要提得出合理的方法有基金的預算我們都完全來同意我只是要告訴你中研院不是沒有錢有不同的方式你可以來讓我們這些科研人員都還是有辦法得到非常好的一個照顧是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3484.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3497.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
就是在教文會達到這個目標我們非常感謝但是基金高你科研基金就是比過去多了54%你還是可以來做一個使用不要告訴我中研院沒有錢這是我沒辦法接受的接下來我們再看凍結這個部分有關於這個儀器的層面上裡面來說你 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3502.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3519.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這是你們在這次的解凍來說但是我還是要請教院長每一次有關貴重儀器特別是超過千萬的貴重儀器常常被審計部跟立法院的預算中心來認為使用不佳你們今天告訴我們的理由是你們的方式是什麼呢發函給全國大專院校請大家踴躍來使用然後說預算會便宜一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3523.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3542.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
但是呢各校并没有像中研院一样有这么高强度的研究能量或是需求所以这部分来怎么样的部分呢永远告诉我们这个结果然后呢我们预算中心跟我们大家都还是认为你们在采购这个千万元以上的仪器上面还是有这样的问题需要被来做澄清的院长没有别的方法吗那因为这部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3543.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3560.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
越高階的儀器當然使用的人越來越少要漸漸普及但是我們不能夠不買這些高階的儀器因為全國全世界只有少數人在用我們為了要跟全世界競爭我們也必須要我完全同意但是院長你要看看你給我們的解凍報告書裡面你們是不是寫的儀器的單價值不該以使用率來呈現我都很仔細看你們寫的報告要用儀器價值反映在期間發表跟論文的引用次數上面這是你們告訴我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3572.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3575.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
你觉得这样子的引用的价值符合院长你的期待吗符合你所说的价值吗我相信我相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3599.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3614.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
很多人用這些儀器並沒有完全說把每一台儀器都引用在這個論文就是你們解凍報告說要反映在這個層面上我只是根據你的解凍報告來請教院長因為解凍報告可能寫的不是完全是符合實際的狀況真正大家做研究的時候沒有辦法這個以跟立法院報告的心態來寫論文寫學術論文跟寫立法院報告是兩回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3629.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3649.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這個就是你的解凍報告所呈現給我們我們只是告訴院長這個報告的這個說法其實很難說服我們然後再加上過去的部分裡面很多預算中心認為使用的頻率上面是很希望它能夠用在包口上面讓這個所謂的研究更具有成效就是因為包口所以非常尖只有少數人可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3650.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3659.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
不是一個榔頭不是一個榔頭 大家都可以敲得到好 感謝這個我們一定改進然後呢 特別還有提到就說你中研院裡面還編了8億的預算來擴充固定的資產你讓他們來建構這個實驗跟研究用的儀器但是呢 也還是被點出來了預算持續率偏低以至於你們每年都會來辦理保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3677.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3696.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那如果是有注意提升的水准的话那我们当然都会愿意来支持但是你不合效益之后一立体计算都在做预算保留多年没有动用到这个计划那你这个部分里面要么就缓办否则你就要用在这个部分还是一句话嘛你怎么样来精进嘛这还是呈现出这样的一个数字出来啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3697.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3713.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這部分我們會想辦法改進但是原因是因為很多儀器等到我們變到預算的時候儀器已經又精進了我們就必須要重新再做那這部分你們要怎麼解決因為你永遠會在數字上呈現就會是這個樣子這個是比較麻煩的因為數字永遠跟不上研究的進度全世界的科研 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3713.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3728.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
永遠是領先的我們預算至少一年半因為你們流用的方式你們緩編的方式其實是太多年了所以這又是被提出來我們希望立法院預算中心我們剛才解釋了好幾年我們希望再次能夠溝通希望大家能夠了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3729.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3729.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好 谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3759.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3761.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
你们找不到你们要的人这也是可能是这样子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3785.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3813.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
对不对这有很多的解释方法当然有一些不是我们要的人但是有很多也确实是不错的所以我们的那个录取的水准确实是有提高我还是觉得院长我们要诚实面对我们台湾的整个研究的team研究的环境事实上很困难即使川普里面川普里面把很多的人才全部已经外放到不同的国家去我们台湾就要利用这一波要能够吸引国际的人才我觉得这还是有非常大的一个努力因为你们 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3814.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3814.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
因為只有兩個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3841.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3860.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
因為我們在此只有兩個禮拜而已從我們宣布到截止只有兩個禮拜那你就下次必須要有一個時程不能夠永遠無限制的下去院長我只是提出來人才是我們台灣最大的一個資產我們中研院負起這樣一個角色在所有需要的預算所需要的這個部分當中我覺得這個為我們的全力配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3863.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3888.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
还是再一次一如我一刚才站在台上之外中研院虽然附属于总统下面的一个单位但是我觉得发言要本朱你所看到的一个事实不要还没有发生的状况你反而率先来去做这样的一个处理这会就引起人大恐慌这点是本席今天一定要以正视听我们并没有在这个地方影响三千人的这样的生计也没有因为我们任何部分来影响中研院对于人才的培育或是对国外 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3888.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3894.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所謂這個我們科研人員被台灣看到的這樣的感受這是本席在這個地方要強力強力的聲援 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3896.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3918.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
謝謝我們再次強調我們那個聲明是在這個協商之前確實是有這樣的狀況任何協商那是一個過程結果才是最重要你在協商的過程當中你就用這樣的方式我覺得這個才是一個最大的一個問題你既然沒有做這樣的協商請你做相信我們不會再對中研院這個層面上面會做出這樣的部分非常感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3922.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3929.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
好 謝謝柯之恩委員院長請回我們接下來請耿如君召委好 謝謝召委有請河安會主委好 有請河安會陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3954.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3982.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
委員好主委好我們負責任的在野黨說到做到您來我的辦公室拜會的時候我們就有提到我們希望理性的看待核能的議題那您也不小心回覆啦說核能議題是政治議題但我想我們今天有機會回歸到理性上個禮拜二5月13號核管法修法三讀通過然而呢今天已經過了幾天了那我們在今天這個5月21號 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3984.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4000.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
其實我們還沒有看到相關的動作5月17號核三廠二號機停機台電到目前為止還沒有提出研議的申請那對這件事情呢經濟部發新聞稿表示他說啊核安會要修完執法才能評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4002.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4014.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那這個馬上呢我們其實修法的內容我想主委應該看過了啦就是如果需要運這個核電的話那就是由台電提出嘛對不對那核安會來進行相關後續嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4016.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4044.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那這個台電說是何安會你沒修執法啊你沒有修執法馬上一顆皮球就踢過來了那我想何安會這裡也很負責啦我在此肯定你們也發了相關的新聞稿說明啦其實現行的規定呢就可以評估並且決定提出換照申請這顆球你踢給他就是踢得對也踢得好因為確實在法規上面他是要主動提出申請的沒錯要提出換照 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4045.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4072.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
但是依據國安 核安會的說法你說要踢給他 他又踢給你我想確認一下外界的民眾可能會看不懂說政府在互踢皮球雖然我看得懂哪一顆是對的 哪一顆是錯的但我想是不是請主委來評估一下到底核三廠二號機有沒有順利研議是經濟部的責任 台電的責任還是現在像他們講的 求在你們核安會這裡你們都不修執法可不可以請你回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4075.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4089.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
在收到大院三度通过的修正条文之后,就已经着手研究三观执法的修订 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4092.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4118.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
執法是指的核四反應器設施運轉執照申請審核辦法我們對於這個停機後再啟動會有新的要求這個執法我們已經在研議之中大概很快就會把它提出來公布在網上不好意思 主委你這樣把這顆球踢給我們又踢給全球 全國人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4119.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4134.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
你剛剛提到的這個相關的辦法我們都幫你看過了第16條裡面就已經有了還幫你畫紅字啊有換照我們本來就是換發嘛你換發執照的申請檢附報告四個辦法都有啦你到底還要改什麼執法你要改哪裡何店長 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4140.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4156.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這個停機後再重啟的話核電廠必須恢復到運轉期間的營運狀態包括組織人力訓練程序設備復原等以確認符合繼續安全運轉之要求當然原來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4158.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4185.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
范造辦法是不是都已經有了嘛要申請付的東西都有啦還是要繼續要做原來四個要求還要做還再加上這個要恢復到運轉期間的營運狀態好 主委所以你說台電把球踢給你你把球踢給他他再踢給你你踢給我們你踢給全國人民那我想問啦我們現在把球踢給你請問什麼時候會研議完畢我說的研議就是研究嘛OK |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4185.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4202.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
什麼時候修 這執法什麼時候弄完啊你的求婦人一直抱在手上吧我們估計四個月四個月是不是因為其中按照這個行政協議有兩個月是公佈期間在網站上公佈前後作為 前面作為加後面作為四個月應該可以做得出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4203.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4217.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
不好意思 主委四個月AI可能都已經不知道進步幾番了我想希望能不能加速但是我們還是以安全為前提我們希望核安會這裡主動積極地來儘速地做執法的修正好不好那我還是要問 再進一步問 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4218.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4236.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
不管是四個月還是有人說一年要做這個研議的其他的事情或者我們院長甚至拉長了說三年半我們先不管是四個月一年還是三年半我想問這一段時間這些核能工程的專業這些本來在維護運轉的這些專業都是我們台灣最寶貴的人才我們不留住他們怎麼辦呢我想問一下那這段時間你四個月他四個月到最後加起來這段時間我們這一批寶貴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4247.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4264.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
河安 河工的專業人才要去哪裡啊他們不需要運轉啊那萬一到時候要運轉起來還是需要他們啊萬一他們流掉了他被人家搶走了我們不要 別人要這可不可以快速回應一下還是有工作做 請主持人回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4266.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4285.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
事實上在這段期間設備跟管制能力當然持續的一些專業必須要維持住啦因為如果台電公司未來如果提出申請的話還是要相關的技術的能力來審查這一塊所以能力還是必須要維持住好這一點詳情 何安慧待會我現在也請國務院院長謝謝這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4288.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4313.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我想人才非常重要啦我們在這個能源政策不管在轉換還是升級上面尤其賴總統已經講了我們要有新核能所以我想這些核工的人才務必一定要留住好不好所以那我想主委請回這個核安會請回我想我就一起告知各位那另外我想請教一下國務院院長新核能也是需要核工的專業人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4314.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4329.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那我想關於這個SMR呢國園院有計劃要爭取4.8億的計劃經費這部分本席給予肯定跟支持但是我們看了一下國園院過去四年對SMR的計劃110年111年113年都沒有相關的計劃112年編列100萬元新台幣各位沒有看錯100萬新台幣今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4339.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4353.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
則是編了1500萬其實我去年上任的時候我就不斷的說SMR很重要我們應該要早一點開始編列當時我們聽到的金額都非常少過了現在2025年了我們已經看到在美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4354.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4380.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
微軟、亞馬遜、谷歌、Meta這些大企業都在投入SMR的新核能微軟就獲得美國能源部600億新台幣的補助亞馬遜則是投資超過150億新台幣那我們到今年年底花在SMR的計劃經費1600多萬即便明年起增加一年所有是1.2億雖然我們是支持但是跟國外相比真的落差有點大 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4381.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4394.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那我想賴總統喊著新核能美國各個國家也都非常關注我們的人員安全我們這個落差很大啊那賴總統昨天又說了要推動20項減碳旗艦計畫預計到2030年要投入1兆元而且這種綠色的投融資還要高達5兆那相比起來我們這樣一年一億是不是不太夠啊可不可以請這個國務院院 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4410.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4424.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
請這個跟行政院爭取看看補助啊不然這樣的經費是不是有點難跟其他國家競爭報告 格昭偉我們的確今年特別事實上明年的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4426.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4451.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我們租位來的有增加了一千八百萬所以明年原子能方面的跟國科會爭取有到三千六百萬那另外在上個月有到國科會跟國科會報告也爭取了第一年一億那總共是四點八億四年的預算現在這個整個公文也在行政院在審查之當中我剛剛都講了啦院長我跟你是站在一起的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4452.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4475.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我是說你這個單位是客位數啊人家是一百五十億六百一直在起跳的是不是主委我們一起跟行政院多爭取一點啦好歹要加個零吧好歹要從單位數的億要變成這個兩位數的億吧有沒有機會啊我們一起來為我們台灣的合共新和能啊總統都講啦你們是不是這個想要讓總統難看不會吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4477.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4504.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
是 稍微 我們是還是會積極前四年先把它這個因為現在新的能源包括SMR真正商業化要到2030年所以我們利用這四年先做一些研究那研究包括三種不同的反應器包括熔岩式 包括這個鈉冷式還有包括傳統的這個壓水式所以我們先把這個做一個有系統的整合然後再做一個建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4506.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4528.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
現在我們台灣的AI的發展就是有點落後就是因為我們看人家成功了我們才走啦現在我們要找一點投入接下來是能源大戰我們合工的人才合工相關的預算一定要足夠新型態的核能現在總統已經開口了我們大家要跟上好不好OK好那我們接下來謝謝請回座我們有請中研院院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4531.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4549.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
有請院長院長好還是很謝謝您今天百忙中抽空過來那我想我還是要echo一下剛剛柯志恩委員所提的我想未來我們在溝通的過程裡面希望可以信任我們委員會對中研院的支持我們對委員會非常信任不好意思您讓我講完就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4552.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4567.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我想在溝通的上面您大可以說三千位研究人員的人才我們一定保住我們一定幫助你保護你們的捍衛你們的預算好不好不要說是用這種負面的訴求嘛說你們可能會沒有工作好不好我們沒有這樣說啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4568.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4573.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
剛剛那個新聞稿 上面是說中演員冒號那是媒體講的 我們講的是假如照這個的話我們會產生什麼結果因為那個時候是黨團 各黨團然後我們就不得其門而入沒有辦法跟黨團溝通所以我們只好大聲疾呼這樣子的話 假如說沒有溝通下去會很麻煩事後確實是各黨團是有接見我們那我們有去溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4596.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4611.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
他這個問題就迎刃而解了是是這樣子的狀況所以我想溝通過程上面的溝通正向上面的訊息如果有錯誤要澄清第二如果有好的結果是不是也應該要多發布一些相關的聲明好不好我想我們予以期待好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4612.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4629.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
再來爭取一點時間我請教一下中研院過去我跟您請教過 淨零五支建沒有包含核能一事那是因為核能我們認為說不是中研院的專長我們淨零五支建裡面是中研院可以馬上貢獻的部分核能中研院沒有辦法貢獻 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4631.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4648.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那陳主委也在底下啦其實我之前4月24號跟主委在互動的時候主委有說啦說目前跟中研院已經有建立合作機制未來也將積極推動跨部會科研的合作那我也在這裡跟院長同步一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4648.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4670.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
5月19號世界要改變了德國放棄反對核能立場而且請注意一下我們幫您畫紅線法國爭取在歐盟立法當中將核能視同再生能源也就是核能的低碳的特性其實是逐漸在AI的世代是被重視的所以我們同意所以我想既然我們同意的話我想請教一下院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4671.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4696.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那我們接下來有沒有跟核安會這裡在核能方面我再重申一次我們不管大家的政治立場我相信研究是中立的科學是中立的核安的核工的核能的人才拜託一定要留住所以我們有沒有更多的研究和合作可以期待我目前沒有核能核安方面的人才但是核能部分假如牽涉很多基礎性的研究我們願意投入 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4697.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4721.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
而不是直接用在核能的設計 核能的安全 核能的運轉這方面有其他單位比我們更專長 更有專長的所以我們是從基礎研究的角度來切入那這方面實際運作的是要看其他單位來一起配合好 院長還是請您回去研議啦您這樣給我聽起來還是會覺得說中央醫院未來的研究可能還是不太會有核能為主題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4722.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4749.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
但我覺得不管是中研院還是其他單位希望可以我們大家一起努力來滿足我們賴清德總統提出的新核能的可能性他說還沒準備好我們要幫他準備好好不好因為新的核能可能需要新的材料那新的材料這部分就牽涉到很多基礎研究這方面是中研院可以研究的但是這些基礎材料也不見得專門是為核能而做所以很多是會有這種情形所以我們大概不會有專門去拼 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4753.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4763.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
合工的人才那可能在其他單位更適合否則在綜藝會變得無用武之地所以綜藝院目前是沒有聘合工專業人才沒有我們沒有任何人做這方面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4765.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4790.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
現在不會再重新考慮我們現在非常需要賴總統宣誓他要投入一兆做中研院的主要的mission是做基礎研究所以核能是應用研究現在核能比較是應用型的研究基礎都已經解決了所以這個為什麼我們可以大概2030年左右我們就可以構置新的核能是用構置的而不是我們自己研發出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4792.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4809.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
自己研發出來可能要到哪一年所以院長您現在已經確定了就是我們的中研院的主旨我們放棄何能因為你剛剛已經說要控制不能講說放棄就是說有相關需求我們能夠幫忙我們一定幫忙那假如沒有這個需求的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4811.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4828.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們提供基礎研究方面 中研一向是提供基礎研究方面我只是提醒各位 我們良好 良善互動賴清德總統有宣示了 新核能可以考慮我想他說新核能沒有準備好我真的是鼓勵大家 我們一起幫他準備好 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4828.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4845.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那所以我最後希望可以院長可不可以承諾啦過去我們可能沒有把核能放進來我們有沒有機會考慮把這個禁零五支箭各國都已經轉換立場了禁零五支箭變禁零五加一好不好禁零五加一 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4846.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4854.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這個可以是新核能機靈組織建的最主要的用意是中研院能夠主導核能是中研院不能主導的否則核安會怎麼做什麼否則國研院做什麼否則其他單位做什麼那國研院遠比我們在這方面實力強太多了我想這是一個合作啦合作當然很願意所以合作我們絕對展開雙倍我跟院長表達如果中研院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4873.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4894.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
學術立場科研的立場沒有理性的去把這個所謂的核能各國都在重視的東西放進來我想全台灣的研究員研究單位會覺得核能相關的研究是沒有出入的我覺得這不是一個好的訊息啦我們是有放進來但是不是由中文院主導 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4894.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4918.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
中央院不能做全國所有的事情啊中央院有中央院自己的定位有中央院自己的強項我們根據我們能夠貢獻的部分來貢獻其他還有很多單位包括大學 包括很多法人都比我們更適合那我們大家分工合作院長 您是台灣在科研方面的最高機關這一點同意吧所以您的高度 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4919.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4947.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
有非常重大的影響力所以您沒有辦法承諾把禁令五之間變五加一沒辦法因為這禁令五之間再講一次是中研院自己能夠做的其他我們可以大力鼓吹我們可以coordinate我們可以跟其他單位一起來研議看假如台灣要發展核能還缺什麼東西這個我們可以做但是由我們來自己說這是我們自己要主導這個我覺得我們沒有辦法承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4948.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4977.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我還是希望院長重新考慮我覺得剛剛您在答覆上面你反而弱化了矮化了中研院在話語權上在科學上的領導的這個地位我本席感到希望給您再多一點時間但我想張偉金站起來了希望給院長多一點時間內部研議一下好不好就是假如說核能裡面有真正的這個基礎研究部分我們非常樂意投入但假如只是後端的怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4979.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4988.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
來deploy這部分的話那有更多更好的更適合單位來做這件事情我是要強調這一點好謝謝院長謝謝昭偉好謝謝謝謝葛君昭偉院長請回好我們接下來請陳秀寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5004.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5020.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
謝謝主席請周副院長因為我知道廖院長好像已經先離開了好 我們請中研院周副院長好 委員好好 早安副院長 輝達在今日有宣布海外的總部將落腳在北市 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5021.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5035.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這個對台灣的AI產業及半導體業都是讓人感到很振奮的好消息那民眾也相當的期待輝達與台灣的產學界能夠跨界合作那輝達呢在去年將AI超級電腦的25%的算力分享給國內的AI來研發那其中呢國科會的TED計畫跟中研院都有聯合申請那這邊請教副院長中研院接下來有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5046.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5051.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
已經開始規劃有進一步跟輝達合作的相關的這些計畫非常謝謝委員的關心因為就是前兩天黃仁勳先生的演講中 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5060.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5076.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
把台灣那個地圖畫出來還有很多很多的單位中研院的確也就在那張的他的那個投影片上面那昨天其實有揮打美國來的人員跟揮打新加坡公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5077.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5092.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
在台灣分公司的一些人員到中研院來訪問所以我們已經在洽談一些可能的合作的情形所以在各方面但是內容我這邊不方便透露了但是已經開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5093.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5121.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
有在讨论我们有一些哪一方面可以所以中研院这边就是对进一步的相关的合作已经有开始在规划只是这个内容现在还不宜曝光那你们在节动报告上面也说有成立生成式AI风险研究小组会来协助制定合宜的伦理准则以及应用规范那我想请教目前我们已经开始针对不同领域来制定准则了吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5123.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5132.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個我想請我們比較熟悉這方面有參與這方面工作的邱研究員幫我們回答 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5134.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5157.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
委員好 我是法律所邱文聰那這個小組其實有針對有關著作權的部分那還有說在這個相關的學術使用上面確實有提出我們的委員會的一些想法那但是因為基本上它算是學術界自己的一個自律的一個想法所以比較沒有變成是法規上面的一個建議不過如果委員需要的話 當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5158.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5175.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我們可以讓這個小組的一些建議可以提供給委員會雖然說剛才您回答說這個是在學術界一個比較自律的一個自我的規範但是其實相關的準則我覺得是一個非常重要的一個依據那我也希望說你們最你們有預計最快什麼時候可以完成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5176.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5201.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
這是一個Ongoing的委員會,意思就是說它會隨著AI的這個發展的進程會有不同的議題進來那這邊可不可以請您把一些你們制定的相關的一些資料可以提供的部分給我辦公室第一版的這個報告已經出來了那應該我的印象如果沒有錯應該已經有提供給大院那後續如果還有新的報告出來的話那我們也會再適時的再提供給委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5202.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5217.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
好 謝謝您在AI的這個科技浪潮下其實台灣我們雖然未有半導體的產業優勢但是在AI翻廠上還是需要說中研院跟國科會這邊緊密合作我也希望說我們一直在AI的賽道上我們台灣是佔有一席之地的 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5218.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5240.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那剛剛有提到說中研院有參與TIDE的這個計畫在發展語言模型的時候語料庫的建設是非常的重要那TIDE的模型背後已經有繁體中文的這個語言資料庫那述發部這邊也發布說他們將要建設新的繁中語料庫那包含說政府部門以及私人企業的資料都會涵蓋中研院這邊針對述發部的這個語言資料庫會不會提供什麼協助或者說也會參與他們相關這個建設計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5250.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5271.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
委員好 我是中研院資訊服務處陳林植處長那對於速發部所提出的這個語言資料庫我們會是全力配合那中研院因為台德的主要的研究模型組也是在中研院所以其實我們也非常需要也非常希望這個中文語料庫可以趕快收集更多的資料來輔助這個模型的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5271.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5284.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那我們中研院的這個他的這個計畫的這個語料庫跟速發部的這個語料庫我們會不會整合未來就能夠把相關的資源整合進來我們更全面的來發展繁中的語言模型呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5285.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5313.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那個委員好我是那個中央資訊所所長那也是現在國家精創計畫的副執行長所以關於半導體跟AI的相關的部分我有部分參與那速發部現在因為也在提很多那個計畫有相關在精創計畫裡面那剛剛講的那個語料庫的部分因為這個是所有的問題都是因為Deep Seek出來以後引起的因為他是從那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5314.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5336.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
DeepSeq它是從那個簽問就是中國的阿里巴巴這個公司一個大型元模型所蒸餾出來的然後再加上一些自有的技術那所以這樣引起全世界的一個關注因為大型元模型本來需要很多的建制經費但是因為它用這樣的一個方式讓一個小型模型比較小型的模型可以運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5337.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5360.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
而且可以用在百工百業那目前整個國科會也有一個百工百業的一個計畫大南方計畫那這個部分就是希望AI能夠應用在各行各業因為我們台灣是從中小企業起家所以在這樣的狀況之下大部分的中小企業他沒有辦法沒有那個能力財力去做一個大型圓模型 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5361.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5382.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那政府本來就有這個義務要來做這件事情但是在蒸餾的過程中我們必須要考量到大型魚眼模型在蒸餾的過程中它其實會蘊含一些價值觀的問題如果是用鉛問的話它是從中國的阿里巴巴弄出來的所以在這個狀況之下一些價值觀當它蒸餾的時候那些價值觀是沒有辦法抹滅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5383.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5403.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
所以我們必須要為什麼需要做一個繁體的中文的一個環境的原因就在這裡但是這樣的狀況之下我們台灣目前為止整個算力的部分其實這是大型遠模型訓練最需要的部分但是台灣跟整個大型那處長您的意思現在就是說中研院的這個態度計畫跟塑化部將來要做這個語料庫的建制你們是會一起發展的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5411.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5434.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
這個部分還沒有談這個事情因為台德計畫它是國科會在用金創計畫向下今年編列了1.4億的預算要做這個台德的部分那台德的部分它最主要就是說適合台灣一個環境的一個大型元就是繁體制的一個環境目的是為了未來要支援各種 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5435.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5463.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
各種的不同的應用那當然是應用一些蒸餾的技術但是台灣基本上有一個最大的問題就是說因為現在大型原模型像Gemini什麼這些大型公司的那個大型原模型一直出來那台德的計畫其實有需要仰賴一些那些技術他一旦翻新的時候台德計畫就要因應所以在這個狀況之下因為最近因為大型原模型實在是太快了 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5464.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5493.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
幾乎每個禮拜都有一個新的模型出來所以我們也在在這個部分我們需要一點時間去琢磨那那個團隊的部分的人才也需要再擴編所以我們有很多事情還是沒有辦法一下子就做出來好 謝謝處長您回答其實台灣發展這個自由語言自由的這個語言模型以及建制語料庫都是因應現在AI相關的發展那我會希望說為什麼這樣子提是希望說我們把相關的資源來整合我相信一加一絕對大於二 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5494.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5522.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們把相關的這些我們不管是在技術面或者是在其他的執行面都可以不要各自各做各的有時候這個資源結合進來我想對你們行政部門也會相對的就會覺得說是互相支援那也相信說以中研院這個課你們的實力那我們再有相關的學者專家進來可以提供更多的助力那這個部分會後我這邊再跟你們索資料因為我這邊時間有限謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5524.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5529.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那接下来我还要请何安卫主委一起我这个问题要一起问一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5532.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5557.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
在5月17號核三廠二號機正式除役那目前核安會的網站上看來台灣所有的核電廠機組都已經正式除役台灣正式的核電歸零那首先這邊先請教中研院那過去中研院一直對提到淨零五支鍵包含去碳燃氣 高效太陽能 光電 海洋能 地熱能以及生殖碳會 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5559.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5564.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
中研院認為說我們金鈴湖世界有哪一個部分可以最快的提供能源的行列跟委員報告 這個我要請環面中心陳玉高主任來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5574.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5587.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
委員好 剛才五支建裡面前四支都是跟能源有關係的我們走在最前面的是去碳燃氣現在已經進展得蠻迅速的大概兩年內就可以完成示範機組的借接 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5590.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5606.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
接下來就是太陽能光電的高效這部分現在也有很多的進展在媒體上我們也已經公佈它已經可以達到31.5的轉換效率另外兩項可能要到明年才會有比較好的成績先跟委員報告到這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5606.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5619.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
所以現在比較快能夠加入這些提供能源行列的就是有去氮燃清的技術以及高效太陽光電的這個部分那海洋能跟低的能要到明年可能才會有相關的成績發表這樣齁好那接下來我想請教賀安慰主委喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5624.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5636.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
在核三廠二號機除役之後,核安會繼續接下來的工作作業是什麼?除了視察除役的這個工作計畫之外,目前看起來最重要的部分有哪些?核官房 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5641.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5645.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
除了執法修好之後我現在要請教說你們要去視察他廚藝的工作這些相關的計畫內容大概是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5667.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5691.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
跟委員說明,目前核三廠二號機已經停機了那核三廠一、二號機的用過燃料池裡面有燃料所以燃料的安全這部分還是要維持住也是核安衛的視察重點那除了一些準備作業包括乾燥設施啊然後還有一些長期的調查部分都是核安衛目前會督促台電公司繼續去辦理的一些事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5692.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5708.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
因為雖然說我們核三廠現在已經除役但是核廢料的處置我相信民眾是非常的關心那接下來關於這些核廢料處置的部分呢核安會你們如何把關該進行的程序有哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5710.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5728.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
科安會每年都對台電公司最終處置計畫執行進行專案檢查那另外經濟部為了解決這事情也成立了專案辦公室要來做高放懸殖條例的立法以及高低放處置場的懸殖工作以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5730.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5755.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
昨天是我們賴清德總統就職一周年這個就職演說中有非常清楚的表達說核電廠要研議有兩個必須三個原則其中最重要就是核安無虞 核廢有解以及社會共識所以這邊我要請教核安會在所謂的安全審查的程序中有沒有包含基礎老化以及斷層的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5756.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5781.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這些是不是會影響核安的最重要的因素在你們的專業裡面跟委員說明當然除了電廠的設備老化的評估之外那長者一些地質調查跟耐震的強化都會納入核安位審查的一個重點之一為什麼這樣問呢因為我們的核廢料在我們核三廠這些相關的燃料棒還沒有處理完全之前它還是存在這個斷層之上 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5783.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5787.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那在這個過程裡面雖然我們的機組是停機的但是我們相關的這些燃料棒這些核廢料還在這個斷層上面的時候我們該如何來避免相關或者說如何預防這個部分你們有怎樣的建議來提供給我們就是在做安全防護的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5805.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5832.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
跟委員說明,當然恆春斷層這一部分離河山長址區大概有1.1公里在輔導之後,河岸位要求台電公司依照美國的Shake的程序來進行評估都有進入斷層的一些事項、斷層的危害都納入評估目前台電公司有針對安全停機的相關的廠房設備補強強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5834.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5851.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
當然如果後續台電公司提出研議申請的話就是換照申請的話這部分一定會納入重要的審查項目之一那也會要求台電公司持續的去滾動檢討相關的施政跟如果有國際的新的做法都會納進來以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5852.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5856.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
其實台灣地處在地震帶地震這個斷層的影響是我們完全無法避免及預期的因為它什麼時候會有一個變動什麼時候會有一個這樣斷層的這個運動其實我們沒有辦法去預測到那一旦發生就是會是很危急的這個狀態那日本呢其實也有案例就是因為斷層在反應爐的下面而否決了這個核電廠研議的這樣子的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5877.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5881.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以我希望說在野黨不要假裝不知道說這個斷層的這個疑慮這個斷層的危害在那邊然後針對其實我們賴總統就職一周年演說中提到的這個核電廠研議要有兩個必須三個原則這個部分我相信也是民眾他們所擔憂的我們要有核安意識我們要有核能安全我們也要有社會共識而且核廢的處理是最重要的一端如果沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5905.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5914.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這些相關的處置能夠做得很完善的話我相信民眾也會認同我們是沒有發展核電的本錢以上 謝謝好 謝謝陳秀寶委員 主委請回接下來我們請郭育晴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5930.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5934.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
好 謝謝主席 有請何安慧主委好 有請陳主委早安委員好好 這個昨天其實我們在這個大院民眾黨綁了一個非常荒謬的一個重啟核三的一個公投我想公投是民意 但是核能安全是專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5958.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5975.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那5月17號我們的核三二號機也正式的除役了那邁向了我們的能源的一個新的不同的一個進度了那我想要請教一下主委你怎麼看我們昨天在大院的那個很荒謬的公投這個核電要 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5982.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6000.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
啟用要有三大原則核安、核廢料可以得到處理還有公眾的支持這三大條件是缺一不可的第一個條件應該就是核能安全核能安全是最重要的沒有核安就不可能有核電 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6001.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6022.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那我想呢這個剛除役的這個核三二號機他已經工作了40年了我們也非常感謝他但是現在工程深退之後剛剛其實主委也提到了除了核能安全以外我們另外還有一個問題就是核廢料的一個處理我想請教一下目前這個高放長紙的設置條例有沒有進展那另外呢低放儲置跟這個選紙的問題目前有最新的進度嗎那接下來我們要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6031.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6032.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
請主持人回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6033.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6061.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
包委員那個高放選址條例的部分經濟部今年已經成立專辦公室那他們預定今年會預定的期程是今年會提出來這個相關法案那在低放的部分在非核家園小組其實有給台電公司一個明確指示要台電公司來推動中期暫時儲存設施也要來進行社會溝通那 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6062.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6082.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
台電秉持這個行政院的指示他已經從108年到113年去年完成了兩期的社會溝通計畫那目前正在進行第三期的社會溝通以上有沒有大概確定的位置呢就第一方處置廠來講在 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6084.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6109.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
之前經濟部領選小組已經選出台東的達人跟金門的烏丘這兩個建議候選場址有跟當地的居民有溝通過了嗎台電公司在兩個地方其實都有溝通小組專職在做相關的溝通工作但是因為地方政府我想為什麼我要特別問這個問題因為我覺得核廢料的一個處置的場址 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6113.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6141.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
一直以來都是問題我想地方政府還有地方的這個居民其實他們對於所謂的核廢料放在他們家附近其實是會有很大的一個爭議喔所以怎麼樣落實這個部分那目前為止其實我們的高方長職跟地方的這個處置的一個選址的位置的問題都還依舊存在這個時候如果談所謂的這個荒謬的重啟的核三的一個公投其實這真的是本末倒置喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6142.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6146.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好,那剛剛其實這個也有委員一直在專注所謂的這個SMR但是其實別忘了我們核能的新的技術還有核融合的部分其實這個國外也不斷的一直在成為這個他們現在能源轉型當中一直在研究的一個對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6161.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6176.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那我想這個國際的趨勢全球都在點火了我們台灣到底準備好了沒因為我們都知道這個全球都在快速的佈局這個核融合的一個技術那麼同步的我們也要推動這個法規的修訂還有人才的培育跟產業的一個國際的合作那我想台灣應該是不能缺席的那這應該也是目前我們的這個核安會也應該要往這個方面繼續的前進 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6188.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6202.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
好 那我就想要點出幾個就是比較關鍵性的一個問題那以目前來講其實我們的研究計畫的規模算是比較小那合融合的這個技術目前台灣仍屬於初步的這個進階的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6204.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6211.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那我想這個實驗型的一個計畫的規模也是非常的有限那另外呢就是我們有專利但是還沒有成事那另外還有這個人才的培育也是明顯的落後那我想就這個人才跟技術上的一個佈局想請教一下下我們的這個主委就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6224.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6249.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我們怎麼樣能夠做跨部會的一個整合跟國際合作還有我們的人才的攬才那目前為止國運會國運院以及我們的和安會還有我們的教育部是不是也正在推動跟相關的一些大學比方說像清大或者是成大的這個技術的核心的大學當中有做合融合的一個工程的相關的一個合作的一個計畫有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6252.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6279.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這部分我請國安委員回答這問題好報告委員我們現在有一個就是你這簡報所講的FIRST手作小型福爾摩沙的球型托克馬克裝置這裡面這個計畫第一期是7000萬已經結束第二期從今年3月開始到兩年以後總共1.3億在這個過程我們結合了這兩期計畫同時結合了成大、千大還有福昂中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6280.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6298.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
還有本院的同仁我們就在這裡面要培育最少是10位到20位甚至到100位以內的尤其物理方面的人才這裡比較偏向於普通核能跟物理方面的人才我們都有在做規劃同時我們在今年7月的時候會到美國去參訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6300.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6310.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
剛剛你前面簡報所講的合龍河的裝置在麻省、麻州還有MIT跟麻州今年嗎?是在今年嗎?今年區的時候我個人會帶隊去參訪到MIT麻省是參訪這兩個單位我們會再把這一方面的技術引進 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6319.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6347.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
就是做交流啦因為這個事實上合龍河可能要蠻久的時間二三十年後才可能商品化但是我們要持續維持這個人才其他人才方面我們會持續在規劃從學校再來培養這相關的人才除了這個前面所述的幾個單位是好那另外我們有聽到就是目前已經有跟這個國際的一些交流的一個計畫呈現了那最近期的是什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6349.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6363.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這幾期國際交流的計畫就是我這一次事實上我們去年8月的時候去年10月有去訪問東北大學日本東北大學去參觀他們合龍河的設施也有做一些交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6365.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6391.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
在這個今年我們要打算在美國方面國科會我想國科會副主委也會帶一隊參觀西岸的很多核龍核設施這是國內應該國科會還有我們院裡核安會都會展開更具體更深化好如果有更具體的一些計畫或者是進程再麻煩提供給我們好的好謝謝那接下來我想請這個中研院不好意思因為時間的關係本來還有一些題目好 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6394.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6422.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
委員好你好我想這幾年這個中研院我們在這個驅炭燃氫的一個技術上的進展其實是值得被肯定的那我們跟這個台電合作也進行了這個10%的混氫發電的一個初步的測試可見我們在這個部分的一個研發其實已經動起來了目前我想問的就是有沒有一個初步的規劃有哪一些產業的區塊是可以作為小規模的一個示範的場域 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6423.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6428.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
好非常謝謝委員的提問這個我想請我們環面中心陳玉高主任來好 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6431.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6453.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
有關小型的部分應該它就是不進到現在發電廠的大型的機組那麼它可以接的就是燃料電池現在我們的技術也已經發展到燃料電池可以接起來的大小所以跟一些業界正在洽談下一步是不是可以合作來開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6454.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6473.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
好那如果有更近期比較具體的一些計畫或者是成果再麻煩提供給我們那另外我想請教的就是這個高效太陽能技術的競爭力我們怎麼樣把這個部分來加速它這個商品化的部分我中研院跟這個國內的一些頂尖的團隊其實已經成功的研發出這個光電轉換率超過31%的太陽能的一個電池那我想這個是非常讓人期待的也非常我相信這個市場其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6483.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6501.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
極具有潛力的部分但目前為止它仍是屬於這個小面積的一個實驗的原件還沒有跨入所謂的量產的一個階段其實包含它的穩定性就是製程的一個穩定性另外還有這個擴大面積還有電池的一個壽命其實都是我們要克服的一些重點我們怎麼樣來加速這個部分的成熟或者是說我們這個目前已經有跟產業界來做合作進行的一個實驗的場域的佈局 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6513.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6516.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
有沒有一個比較實際的一個進程可以請說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6517.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6544.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
委員好 我是關鍵議題研究中心主任李超黃太陽光電的技術目前在我們中心全力的在推動跟委員報告已經有國內的一線大廠跟我們在簽訂合作的契約文字的部分還在稍微修改但是他們也願意派他們的團隊來跟我們進行合作今年主要的目標就是要把壽命也就是電池的穩定性的數據一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6546.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6570.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
做到可以被認證而且可以被業界所接受那接下來就可以估計這樣子的材料它所發電的鍍電成本鍍電成本的估計出來以後我們就可以真正來探討說在什麼樣的場域做大規模的試驗所以現在只是小規模的一些場域那還沒有一個特定的園區還是計劃有哪一個特定的一個園區是可以來做這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6571.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6592.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
目前還沒有計劃到大規模的園區但是我們一定會趕快把這個穩定度的這個部分要趕快做出來就是包含他的耐後性以及他對這個實施的效能嘛這是所有業界都非常關心的一個項目所以我們今年的主要的研發就是朝著這個方向加油加油謝謝那也謝謝 謝謝莊議員好 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員好 謝謝郭育晴委員官員請回那我們接下來請謝龍介委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6618.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6624.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
主席 我請福林安全委員會主委我請陳主委陳主委 你好我講 何樂威 你有問題嗎跳舞啦 跳舞啦喔 你講好講好我是客人 跳舞沒問題啦沒問題沒問題啦好我請教你喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6647.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6649.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
在這個國際研究啊,我們現在一直在講這個SMR,這個小模型的負荷基礎啊,比較像小的國家,有擔保像個有貴的國家,你有沒有了解?有 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6667.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6677.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
大概有在爭奪的,差不多...請國務院院長來回答報告委員,我國際上有在爭奪的主要是共產國家,大陸跟蘇聯最爭奪的沒有在爭奪的,歐洲、日本、美國、國家,同時是2029年才開始,他2030年才開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6697.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6708.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
加拿大也有,英國,法國但是,大陸已經有在上傳了,俄羅斯,就剛才你說的這是我們沒辦法跟他們合作啦,我們是要民主的共贏人他們這算紅色的共贏人,所以我們要立場清澈這樣就很可惜了,因為另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6726.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6741.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
要AI 剛才鄧元宜說 要超級的勝率要AI 沒電 電沒電國家不需要在這裡投資 不需要放大幣的資源只要想更高級 實際 才可以蓋在這個應該蓋的地方大家都了解 尤其是在座很多做研究的科學家 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6756.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6768.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
都知道現在AI的時代是一律前例今天沒做 明天就不會有了可惜我們的政府還是西安的水培 金門培富齡發展你從特赤時代到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6779.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6791.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
今天我們吃米糕白吃了,當時是福利福森在研究的時候,第一次的談判那麼,如果不經過米糕的專家跟你認定,不經過台灣的專家認定,怎麼可能會開發呢?後來,現在全世界,注意,這個福利電廠,全世界的台幣都是在40年的使用年限 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6807.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6815.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
已經有處理煙壓 繼續最賺的大概有幾座 你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6815.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6831.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
兩幾個啊?這個有... 總共有四百多座核電廠取得研議的研議的有一百九十多座一百九十幾座 咱台灣一座就沒辦法放他上一隻就沒辦法放他過去各位鄉親 你想想看 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6838.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6841.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
很可憐喔台灣有這麼好的科學家這麼安全的檢測專家台電在火火煮煮三小時在全世界火營運轉屏蔽兩年來都是五名來因為我們不敢把這個火營電廠給營業這是很可惜的很可惜的我不知道你們對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6868.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6875.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
核安會你有領略讓我們的婦人登場,如果要演繹,才安全檢測你們做得到嗎?核安會的職責就是核安,沒有核安就不會有核電,如果核安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6889.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6901.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
認為宇宙電廠有安全疑慮的話 我們會要停止檢查這我們沒有很模糊的疑慮現在我們的副官法已經通過 恰恕今天在台電當然民進黨執政的情形它是一定不會啟動的 因為新珠白的恢復人的家鄉所以我一直在稱讚他 說你已經達到目標 你已經對民進黨的駒馬的高台階級了恢復人的家鄉5月17日已經達成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6919.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6929.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
有狗啊 越早啟動 台灣人民越早遞到幸福我們現在來說 他已經在頂檔了 我有說過李鴻二千年十月以前 他如果沒有要重新啟動奮勇就對了我吃三碗牛肉麵給你看 羅總統喔李鴻二千年的十月以前 我太了解他了嘛愛吃雞腿 怕潘西 怕人家說 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6949.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6960.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
要比較明顯的 比較大方的已經達到恢復的價格就對世界的搞事情對所有民進黨的先行先行都會搞事情應該靠入兩千三百萬人的幸福靠入台灣未來AI的發展不然是要AI什麼 變AI不是AI我講的就是 你的單位有辦法今天如果是台電的提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6979.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6981.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
這本來就是核安會的職責能不能做到 你們有沒有能力做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7004.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7014.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
有沒有能力我們檢查 我們評估如果用安全 我才會讓它運轉我知道 不是運轉嘛 你有沒有能力去檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7016.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7042.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
檢測能力當然是有那檢測全部安全檢測通過他才能取得繼續運轉對不對這裡面包括機竹包括管路包括土木基建全部通通要少說也要有1000多項少說也要有1000多項所以我們是做得到的現在就是政治問題啦現在就不是能源問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7044.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7070.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
甚至問題如果能克服那你們又能幫他做百分之百的安全檢測那台電又願意提出來台灣確實是可以提前提前再度使用核能這樣啦 我們給他半天的時間就是說今年是2025年嘛那今年5月17剛剛達到非核家園嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7073.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7092.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我們這台美女,她的元旦講話,可以確稱,龍珠灰頭金不凡啊我會靠電話跟她說,美女我已經處理了你現在也不太好啊,我都可以跟老總統說,所以你們要準備準備開始做整個福林電廠營業的安全檢測,你們做得到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7101.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7117.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這本來就是台電如果求申請的話所以你已經準備好了河岸會的職責啊所以說河岸會早已經準備好了這河岸會法律職責真好這我聽了就很滿意所以台灣鄉親你們就知道沒問題技術沒問題檢測沒問題有安全靠負擔現在是政治問題你們聽得懂嗎所以你們70幾%支持負擔是正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7132.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7150.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我請教你,在我們台灣,我們現在台灣,老總統說的,他說三點,其實他兩天來已經說四半了,不排除重新使用核能,他是最後一半才說SMR, |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7153.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7163.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
所以在他內心你要懂得讀他的心啦他內心是要要贏的他知道台灣沒領完 衝刺是沒辦法跟世界競爭的啦我現在請教你就是說在這裡的國家裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7170.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7182.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
有的延20年 美國也有延40年是不是有延40年?是嘛啊 多數都延20年嘛法國大概只有延10年啦40年到50年這樣對不對你認為我們台灣一年三千一年三千如果要啟動延年應該是做10年20年還是40年的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7200.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7206.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
如果要啟動營業啦不啟動就跟你無所謂嘛要啟動他應該設定在10年 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7215.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7228.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
跟委員說明喔那首先還是要取決於台電公司自己評估然後決定他到底要申請延長多少時間那延長時間比如說他申請5年或10年或20年 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7232.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7238.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
如果他申請10年或20年他提供的相關佐證資料要去證明說這一段時間機組可以延長運轉所以還是取決於台電公司整體的評估然後核安委會去確認說 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7257.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7277.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
他提出來的時間是可以符合法規跟安全的要求那你建議台電應該提出規定?當然如果以目前美國的做法就是先第一次申請延長20年然後之後才申請第二次的延長20年目前美國的做法是這樣這三項有延長20年我跟大家報告我們台灣只有零元港幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7284.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7304.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
新本超過二十條新代表超過二十條新代表很客觀我最後問你一個問題 主席我最後結論就是說為什麼我們的太陽磷一套四口水到五口水為什麼印度的太陽磷一套一口而已日本這麼先進 它整個也三口 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7309.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7318.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
你們才有答案雖然你們是官府領但太陽能為什麼在台灣變成這樣尤其我的故鄉為什麼我們的太陽能不是像美國兩顆而已美國也兩顆而已為什麼我們不是太陽能的主管機構所以沒辦法這樣好 謝謝謝謝阿里 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7334.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7344.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
外國的 一口 兩口 到三口 三口我們的四口市 到五口里台北的一天五個人 會忙碌更多越報越大天了可憐啊好 謝謝謝榮介委員好 我們官員請回我們等一下在伍麗華委員質詢後我們休息五分鐘我們接下來請張雅玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7364.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7374.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
好 其實我本來今天沒有打算先問何安慧但我現在剛聽完前面一個的答詢我現在需要請何安慧主委上來好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7375.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7402.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
兩件事情我剛剛聽到前面就是剛剛信融界委員他有問說能不能確保這個安全核安會能不能做得到我想先問一下核安會今天這個拆開核電廠因為今天的核管法做的是核一核二核三喔對吧這個主委您清楚嗎我知道非常清楚核一核二核三現在我們都沒有打開來我們要怎麼知道我們到底做得到這個安全的部分呢我們能夠隔空抓藥嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7404.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7422.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
不是 我剛剛回答的意思是說如果要重啟的話一定要安全他有問你說能不能確保而且我們沒有說他一定可以合乎我們的要求不保證他申請我們就會通過剛剛我好像沒有聽到你說什麼不保證他申請一定會通過這句話我坐在這邊聽我是真的沒聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7429.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7445.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我覺得這件事情我先給你一個時間我把我時間給你 請你說清楚我們現在這個程序到底要花多久的時間而且據我所知我們其實還要找國際的同僚單位一起來檢測這個核安欸不是只有核安會自己說就算欸 對吧所以可不可以請 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7445.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7460.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
主委再講一次這個核安的申請流程台電送了申請之後大概需要多少時間然後流程是什麼可不可以再說明清楚一次讓所有人知道現在我們絕對沒有辦法說出安全這件事情可不可以簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7462.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7489.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這個首先要台電先提出申請台電要做很多工作準備工作包括老化評估等等這部分請高組長做詳細的說明那跟委員說明喔首先那個大院所通過的核管法修正條文核安委要配合修訂執法那修訂執法的時候我們要參考國內情境跟國外的做法要納到執法裡面去嚴定相關的管制要求跟一些安全的技術規範等 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7491.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7510.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那這個執法訂完之後,台電公司本身就要依照執法的相關規定去盤點那個重啟的所需要的工作項目、安全條件等等如果現場部分要取決於台電公司自己本身的規劃時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7512.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7527.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那他這部分他到底要花多少時間確實目前很難去了解因為目前的國際的狀況也不太一樣我記得國際的時間是5到15年嗎對不對還是今天台電有人來可以補充說明嗎我記得我看的資料是5到15年嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7530.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7553.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
跟委員說明 照之前的法規規定是五年前要提出來主要是說核安衛審查時間跟台電公司在執照到期前可以做一些設備的檢查那目前的情境確實不一樣因為機組都進到廚藝所以廚藝的狀態跟運轉狀態完全都是不太一樣但是要做的老化評估等等設備檢查是不可以少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7553.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7574.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那因為狀況不一樣所以他所需要要做更多的事情那這部分也要參考國際的經驗然後回饋進來而且我們在做這個安全不是我們自己說了算嗎還是要有國際的同僚單位一起來做嘛對不對然後再加上我們還有斷層的問題嘛所以這件事情是絕對我們現在根本說不出安全這兩個字吧對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7575.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7590.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這個東西我覺得之後如果還有人提問的話請主委一定要清楚的把整件事情完整的說明不然這樣聽起來好像核安會都可以搞定了事實上根本不是這完全不是我們的意思對 所以我的意思是說申請的時候我們可以把關如果我們認為有安全餘地我們也可能可以把它撥回並不是申請的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7597.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7625.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我的意思是說並不是只有荷蘭會自己說了算嘛 對不對所以你還要跟國際嘛 對不對是是是 所以你不能只有說荷蘭會自己做得到其實還要跟別人一起來合作嘛 對吧這部分要講清楚然後我也要再澄清一點喔這個其實五月初的時候我去了美國到時候我們也有問美國商務部有關SMR的商轉大概什麼時候可以那美國是這樣回答我的他說目前還沒有 目前還看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7627 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7638.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
所以我覺得這點是要做個清楚的說明請國民黨不要再一直講說美國 美國說可以絕對沒有這件事情這是我親口跟商務部來做確認的好 那接下來我先回到中研院 抱歉請中研院 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7651.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7669.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我想先請教一下中研院中研院其實是我們台灣最重要的一個學術研究機構但是從NATURE INDEX上面我們可以看到2019年我們學了209名到2024年變成341名我想知道這是發生了什麼事情可不可以簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7670.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7688.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我想跟委員報告一下這種排名的事情世界上有很多很多種所以我們不能單看一種而且這些排名出來的都是那種盈利機構為主的這些公司排出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7690.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7706.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我們事後可以給委員一些比較詳細的報告在不同的這種所以總簡單來說聽起來是我們在其他的研究報告裡其他的排名上面我們還是有佔據一個不錯的位置是嗎在其實你看要看什麼樣的指標然後看它用什麼樣的這個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7708.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7727.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
还有他的来解所以这个有很多的面向好那这个时候我们就时间来讨论好不好因为这也不是我今天最主要的题目最主要的题目其实是说我其实也有发现我们中研院在国际学术的期刊里面发表非常大量的一些论文而且其实都在很不错的期刊像Nature跟Science像是我们的行星科学家叶勇 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7728.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7752.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
選院士呢他發表的論文有500多篇其中60篇就是刊登在這種頂尖的期刊那生物學家李文雄院士呢則以數理方面方法來研究我們的分子演化那也都在我們的國際期刊上面發表了很多重要的一個成果那同時呢我們也知道說其實呢這個中研院呢一直在跟我們世界的頂尖的一些機構做很多的交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7753.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7775.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
也有签署一些合作的协议来推动双方互访那并且支持我国的这些学会呢加入国际的科学协会来促进台湾学者参与全球社群让台湾被看见让台湾的影响力被世界给重视那但是呢我们今年呢我们的业务费冻结了30%差旅费三减了15% |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7777.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7785.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那我就很想要知道因為我仔細再看下去我們的國外旅費大概是三減了2138萬教育訓練費大概是557萬國內旅費505萬總計是3200萬所以我想要知道到底這樣子影響了我們哪些國際的學術活動無法進行可不可以說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7799.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7823.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
對 這個的確會讓我們要重新考慮一些跟國際交流的活動哪些可能要被減少一些那實際影響是什麼那我們請國際處的處長來回答張委員 國際處處長報告我們最主要的影響是跟尤其是跟歐洲一些重要科學院的雙邊交流的計畫那這個的確是有受到一些影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7824.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7827.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那這樣子的影響會讓我們原本要派出去出訪的人員可能就沒有辦法有預期的這個數目 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7836.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7856.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
但我想再仔細的請教一下就是以前你們可能會派一個團隊一起去嘛那現在人變少到底對中研院因為我還是一直要強調中研院就是台灣的大腦嘛到底實質的影響可不可以再說明清楚一點最實質的影響應該是對於正在進行訓練的這一些學生或者是博后 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7856.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7877.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那本來我們會希望盡量送這些年輕人可以出去那在經費限縮的情況之下原本假設我們想要今年送十個人出去可能現在就只能送五個人大概這個會是比較大的影響所以等於是說我們本來是想要送年輕學子是打開眼界嘛對不對然後透過這些國際的交流上面也可以竄離他自己未來在研究上面的一些人脈對不對是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7878.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7907.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
但是現在這些年輕學子的機會都消失了嘛對不對會下修這個必須要下修就大幅減半嘛剛提起來是這樣子可能沒有到減半但是會有大概百分之二十左右的影響二十左右的影響那我想這可能也會影響到未來我們持續的產出一些更優秀的一些研究那我也想問一下就是說因為我看了整個預算分布在生物科學門也就是我剛剛講的這個李文雄院士的部分總共是被凍結了兩億 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7911.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7919.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
兩億五千八百四十三萬那這個會不會也影響到我們一個這麼重要學者的一些研究進度呢是不是也可以說明一下呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7921.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7941.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那個應該是在生命科學的那個工作計畫下各所中心整體來說那我們會在現在目前凍結的狀況下我們也跟各所中心有一些溝通我們在在盡量能希望能夠減少這些後面的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7942.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7969.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
但是有些的計畫大家心理上也就有一點趨於保守那我們希望這件事情能夠趕快解決我們可以我想問一下那我們如果今天可以順利解凍這件事情有沒有哪一些是已經造成不可逆的影響了因為我想還是需要說明讓大家知道這件事情對於中研院的影響到底有多麼的重大這樣子對 那不可因為我們現在走到五月對 那請一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7971.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7982.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
委員我想不肯定的影響主要還是國外旅費因為這個國外旅費是通山15%那種植是解凍之後這個已經刪除的旅費我們還是就沒有辦法運用這個影響應該還是會持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7984.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8002.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
OK 好了解喔那我想就是說因為其實我看了一下我們還有一些剛剛講的是說聽起來我們的有一些研究啦都比較保守然後可能規模也會縮小但我想更清楚的問一下因為有一些我們連水電費也有受影響嘛那我們一些電子儀器的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8003.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8015.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
電子的儀器包含像是我們的實驗室要恆溫啊對不對我們的一些量子電腦啊這些都已經要受到這個水電費的影響之後我們現在初步大概有多少的個案會受到影響這邊有統計資料嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8018.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8028.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
目前為止我們還沒有統計資料是因為說這些高階儀器在沒電運轉會很麻煩但是我們現在是凍結所以我們盡量在這個時候還是維持的這些高階儀器能夠不受損傷因為受損傷以後後面的後續就很難處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8036.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8057.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
所以聽起來是我們先保持了高階儀器啦但是可能有一些其他的我們就會先犧牲了對不對因為必須做一個經費的調整嘛可能等到今天解凍了之後再有辦法去恢復其他的一些支應嘛對不對高階儀器我們都會事先預先的能夠優先的能夠保持住 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8058.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8072.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好那真的也是非常辛苦中研院那接下來我也想要再請教一下有關於AI基本法的一個問題就是說因為我們最近大家其實都在討論這個AI基本法那我想要跟院長副院長請教一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8075.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8094.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我們從國外看到了非常多的案例像這是2024年10月一個有點憂鬱焦慮的一個年輕人他在跟AI機器人聊天的時候他傾訴這些狀況他就表達他想要自殺但是AI機器人竟然也鼓勵他去做了這件事情最後這個年輕人就離開了這個世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8097.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8125.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那所以呢這就變成是說到底我們在這些深層式的AI我們對於科技的發展產業的發展跟倫理以及我們的兒少保護到底那個界線要劃在哪裡那我知道之前中研院也有派人來參加這個AI這個那個公聽會AI基本法的一個公聽會所以我想要了解就是說我們這條界線包含我們在修法的時候我們應該如何的來修想請教中研院的意見因為除了這件事情之外還有像是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8126.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8147.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我們在有人他自己被誤植為他是這個性騷擾犯被AI拿去說這個性騷擾犯然後還有有人的資歷被不實的被那個記錄在這個checkGPT裡面這個AI裡面或是說大家在訓練資料的時候沒有取得授權就來 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8148.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8167.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
做這個訓練,那其實這都是一些倫理的問題所以我不曉得是不是可以請邱文聰處長是不是可以給我們一些建議讓我們在修這個法的時候可以盡量的去兼顧好,我們請法律專家來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8168.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8191.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
委員好 針對您剛提到的幾個問題其實因為眾議院本身並不是這個基本法的主管機關那我們大概只能夠從學術研究的角度來提供一些我們的想法的建議那其實最主要的問題應該是說基本法它本身比較沒有作用法上面在各個領域上面的規制的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8192.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8221.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
所以如您刚提到的一些应用包括儿少的一些使用的情境或者是说针对有自杀倾向的人的一些相关的应用其实比较难在基本法的这个层次上面去做规范而需要落实到不同领域的作用法上面去把不同的风险应用情境可能产生的风险来加以定义之后才能够预规制那因为台湾本身应该是说每个国家 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8222.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8246.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
自己對於風險的認知可能都不太一樣所以比如說像歐盟的AIA它自己雖然有定有它的分級但是那是在歐洲的情境下他們對於這種AI使用的風險的認知跟他們可以承受的程度那就台灣而言的話我們可能就需要就台灣自己的文化自己的社會跟價值來出發去找到一個適當的一個風險的分級的標準以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8255.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8272.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我想我可不可以跟你事後約個時間我們在這一點上面來仔細的請教那我最後再講一件事情就是說其實我也看到我們在這個中研院呢它其實也有發表一個相關的研究幫助兒童避免熱傷害那其實呢我在去年的預算提案裡面也有提到一個希望中研院來針對這個熱傷害的預防指引能夠有 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8277.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8285.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
一些應用推廣的預防相關計畫做一些粗嘆性的研究那我不曉得說目前有沒有一些相關的進度可不可以簡單說明一下這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8290.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8318.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
環變中心主任陳雲高簡單回應一下這件事情跟我們的研究的一個成果有關係但是我們因為是研究機關所以我們把我們的東西已經呈報到衛福部那看後續衛福部那邊如果要採取進一步的措施的時候如果還需要一些研究的成果我們可以再繼續的幫他們做一些內容好沒關係我們待會會後聊好了好不好好謝謝我就不再用時間了謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8320.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8330.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝張雅玲委員 官員請回那我們接下來請伍麗華委員質詢那伍麗華委員質詢完 我們休息五分鐘謝謝主席 有請何安慧有請何安慧 陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8343.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8365.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
主委好 今天521那在5月17號我們的核三要停機除疫的前夕我們立法院在5月13號有去把核管法的修法三讀通過那大家都說就是等於是重啟核一核二核三研議幫他開綠燈啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8368.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8381.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那開完了綠燈呢昨天520那我們又表決通過了這個公投的這個核三研議的公投那這個主文你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8382.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8401.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
這個主文它有被修過喔它是做修正動議之後說您是否同意第三核能發電廠經主管機關同意確認無安全疑慮後繼續運轉原本是沒有主管機關同意喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8402.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8414.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這是修正動議之後也就是說呢要把所有的球要丟給和安會丟給台電那請教主委您覺得怎麼樣有沒有覺得責任重大還是稀鬆平常和安會是個監管單位對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8423.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8441.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
要不要使用核電 要不要研議 要不要重啟這核安會沒有既定立場所以我們核安會那怎麼辦呢 你沒有既定立場他說公投的主文說要經主管機關同意確認無安全疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8443.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8469.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我們的理解是要不要提起研議或重啟應該是台電跟他的主管機關來做決定的所以意思就是說跟核安會沒有關係所以你的意思是說這個指的是台電跟經濟部他們要提出申請我們在按照有沒有台電在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8472.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8493.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
好像沒有所以這個部分您認為這個公投組文跟你們無關因為是台電要提出申請是經濟部要同意確認無安全疑慮是這樣嗎是由經濟部來同意確認安全無疑慮經濟部提出我們用核安會才能夠來審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8498.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8523.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
昨天張啟凱委員這麼說他說從現在開始要不要用核電就看台電要不要提出申請 您說的對看看民進黨政府有沒有去做安全檢查檢查完才可以用那民進黨政府有沒有去做安全檢查主委 你有沒有去做安全檢查現在還沒有 還沒有啊你要不要去做安全檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8527.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8531.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
要先評估啊對啊那你 誰評估這個部分的程序的話我想請我們那個高組長再詳細說明一下喔 來跟委員說明喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8543.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8570.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
會議裡面核安會目前就按照大院所修正的核管法條文去配合修訂執法跟一些管制的要求當然這個過程中我們會參考一些國際的要求跟國內情境然後訂一些相關的技術規範跟管制的一些要求事項所以你們承認嘛 到底安不安全之後台電公司要按照這個去確認他現場設備然後看他要不要申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8571.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8597.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
他確認完評估確認說他有沒有重啟的條件那如果他認為說他符合安全要求跟法規要求那也經過國際的同儕檢視說他可以申請的話那他就要向河岸會提出依照法規提出要不要做環評這部分依照法規的話要由環境主管機關來認定所以也不是你們對 照法規來所以河岸會管的是什麼就是確認訂定執法 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8599.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8619.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
台電公司提出申請也完成現場檢查確定他要提出申請之後那核安委會去審查他的安全評估報告跟現場去查證所以顯然意思就是說我們的整個社會其實搞不清楚哪一個部會管什麼哪一個部會負責什麼哪一個部會主管什麼對不對表示我們的社會大眾搞不清楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8624.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8636.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
但是大家都知道一件事就是我們的修法通過了也要公投了然後全國2300多萬的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8641.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8669.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
要幫這個公投河山 恆春 車城 滿洲 牡丹請問一下主委您知不知道這四個鄉鎮人口數多少報告員 我並不知道我跟您說不到五萬人我知道人數不多不到五萬人也就是說不到千分之二然後我們要來舉辦公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8670.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8694.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
您覺得合理嗎?這個東西我們沒有這個沒有這個既定立場要不要公投我們只是負責好沒有關係因為我今天看到我們這個新增通過決議解凍書面報告就有提到這個結語的部分他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8698.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8726.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
要求台電公司推動中期暫時儲存設施方案以為因應並展開社會溝通然後第三點有提到和安會處召開處置管制討論會議加強監督台電處置計畫作業外將持續邀集經濟部及原民會召開會議共同督促台電公司推動中期暫時儲存設施方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8728.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8748.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
來 請教一下主委 方案是什麼報告委員 這個方案是行政院非核家園小組要求台電公司在地方選址困難的情況下希望能夠興建一個中期暫時儲存設施來做因應我剛剛都念過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8749.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8769.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
是 所以這個方案其實就是要興建一個中期暫時儲存設施那請教一下 你們說要持續邀集經濟部 園民會召開會議這是什麼意思 園民會要做什麼提供土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8773.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8799.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這個方案裡面其實它目前經濟部要負責督促台電公司去做選址的工作那因為這個方案其實它因為也涉及到那個在兩公約裡面有一個有一個議案說明那這個兩公約裡面的這個相關的議案是由原民會當協辦由經濟部跟河岸會當主辦所以原民會要負責什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8801.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8817.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
他來瞭解我們的進度而已不是提供土地不是確定確定真的會記錄下來喔是好那我希望齁社會溝通我知道你們一直都在做阿社會溝通的成果是什麼真的如他們所講的嗎我們70%的民意都贊成嗎社會溝通的成果是這個嗎我剛剛說了喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8830.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8835.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
在河山那邊 對他們有領發電金 他們有電協會台電有給他們發電金但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8842.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8864.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
蘭嶼他要把低放的核廢料要趕出蘭嶼40年沒有成功還有委員曾經公然的在質詢台上對原民會主委說蘭嶼人不想簽出核廢料因為這樣他們就沒有辦法享受優惠引起嘩然 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8869.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8883.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那現在也有人放風聲說恆春插成滿洲牡丹的人也希望河山能夠繼續研議因為他們有補償金這個是社會溝通的成果嗎這確實有證據嗎可以講這樣的話嗎那蘭嶼人這40年做了多少的抗爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8898.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8926.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
要把這個惡靈趕走都是假的嗎我想這個社會溝通這樣子做是很糟糕的我們不能接受我希望河安會也好不要老是講到台電經濟部因為我們也都會去質詢園民會我們也會去質詢但是不可以去拿出這樣的一個社會溝通成果非常的歧視非常的傷害人沒有人希望自己的土地是骯髒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8927.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8954.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那些高喊的人他連一點點的核食核安他都不能接受他怎麼能夠接受核能可能產生的一個無法彌補回復的巨大危害呢這是很奇怪的一件事情所以我們常常講別有居心啊啊我們的電我每次台電董事長也很生氣啊不要再拿電費漲價跟核電有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8957.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8962.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
主委 你是專家 如果我們的電要漲 是因為跟核電有關係嗎你不能每次都講主管業 你是專家 至少比我是專家啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8979.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9004.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
我覺得這個部分還是由主管單位回答比較適合我們只是負責核能安全的部分而已我想因為時間到我們要問中研院就下次再問但是我想這個部分核安會責無旁貸你們是講核安第一連核廢都處理不來核廢就已經是很不核安了很不安全了 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9006.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9019.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我希望河安這個地方能夠拿出一些態度好不好好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席謝謝委員好 謝謝吳麗華委員主委請回那我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9043.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9050.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
吃到你們都會很驕傲 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9351.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9367.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
報告委員會我們現在繼續開會那我們再重新宣告一次在本席李警委員質詢完畢之後我們就來處理解凍案好那我們現在請葉元芝委員質詢主委好 麻煩請找何安慧主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9380.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9382.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
好有請陳主委主委好那個剛剛我看到很多委員都有談到之前我們有通過核管法那核管法通過後有一位我們這個總統府氣候變遷對策副召集人童子賢他是大家的讚揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9405.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9434.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
那這個所謂的總統府氣候變遷對策委員會是賴清德總統非常重要政績因為我看到他在拍影片的時候特別提到他有成立這三個委員會是很好的政績那裡面其中一個委員會的副召集人童子賢又是這麼的肯定核管法我來念一下他說通過核管法代表多年來台灣民主社會透過直接民意與間接民意已經清楚表達老百姓厭倦 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9435.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9458.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
也否決非核家園的政策而且他也提到最近的能源政策很多問題啊有漲電價造成空污而且碳排過高還有地方派系侵蝕綠能利益而且讓天然氣的供電韌性也飽受威脅等等啊所以對於一個總統重大政績裡面的委員會的一個副召集人如此肯定橫管法 合管法 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9459.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9488.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那我又看到那麼多的民進黨的立委反對核管法這是網內互打嗎還是童子賢在打臉民進黨立委像比如說像黃婕那時候核管法的時候她說哎呀通過核管法就是要讓什麼老舊研議啊那個核三廠已經機組已經這麼舊故障率大增然後講一大堆那現在是童子賢打臉黃婕還是黃婕打臉童子賢我現在要問主委啊主委你是核管法的主管機關嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9490.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9514.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
是請問一下核管法的那條修正案是說通過以後核三就馬上研議嗎還是核一核二就馬上研議有嗎不是的按照文字的理解如果大家沒有閱讀障礙講的只是說放寬那個研議的法規限制嘛對吧如果今天核一核二核三要研議的話是不是還必須要經過核安的 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9515.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9542.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
確定還有核廢的處理跟社會共識嘛這個是總統講的嘛沒錯吧所以不是核官法通過立刻研議沒錯吧所以就很奇怪我那時候看到很多民進黨的立委在反對核官法的理由都讓你覺得很奇怪因為沒有人會在核安有餘裕的情況之下希望核安法研議嘛所以昨天在立法院有一個公投案剛剛我也有看到別的委員講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9543.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9557.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
是這個核三廠的研議公投講的也是說讓大家再確定比如主管機關確定安全無虞然後是不是要研議嘛所以大家其實都是把核安看得非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9558.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9575.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
而且總統講說如果核定要研議那要有社會有共識什麼叫社會共識公投就可以取得社會共識不然什麼叫社會共識那我現在要指出一個核安會接下來一個很重要的責任因為現在核三公投非常有可能在今年的8月23號投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9576.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9605.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
到時候河山假設要研議它是安全的還是不安全的必須要有一個具有公信力的機關來出來做說明這不是說大家自己在這邊憑空想像它安全或不安全它必須要有一個機關出來真正做檢測然後為大家來示疑請問一下河安會這個部分你們有再去做檢測嗎河山場到底安全或不安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9607.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9621.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這個部分呢需要由台電來提出申請這些細節部分我請那個高市長跟委員說明一下什麼意思昨天你可不可以對著麥克風講話我說這個部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9625.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9647.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
台電需要要提出申請台電依據他們的需要老化程度等各種因素所以台電如果沒有提出申請 核安會就不能夠確保核三廠它是安全的或者是不安全的台電 核安會就不會處理這個事情所以這重點就是說假設台電他不去跟核安會申請那 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9650.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9672.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
核安會是不管的 也不會確保說即便是核安會對於這個廠 你有安全疑慮 你也不會去了解就讓台電自己來處理 是這個意思那請問一下核安會 核安會沒有在確定核安全喔是被動的等人家來申請 才會去確定喔就一部分請高組長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9674.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9688.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
跟委員說明,核管法三讀通過後,核安會就會配合修正的條文,要修訂執法,然後要理解你一些管制的要求。那這些技術細節的話,我們會參考國際的做法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9690.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9715.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那原本核管法的執法裡面有一些老化的管理這部分要處理那目前的狀況因為核電廠都已經進入處理了那機組的狀況跟當時候核管法所設定的情境不一樣所以那個目前的機組要做的事情比當時候順利在運轉期間申請延長運轉的東西還要多所以這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9716.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9744.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
台電公司要依照會裡面所定的執法跟相關的管制規定去盤點評估那有沒有重啟的一些條件安全的需求必須要做哪些事情那這部分台電公司要先去針對現場的設備然後重新評估去確認那如果他確認完之後認為說他需要提出申請換照那核安會就會進行安全審查跟現場查證確認他要符合法規跟管制的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9744.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9763.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
當然這個過程當中因為我沒有那麼多時間討論這些細節所以你講的重點簡單講就是說台電他要先假設他有演藝需求的時候他才會去送核安會讓核安會來確認說他有沒有安全的問題他要自己先評估他自己要評估嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9764.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9788.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那他要評估然後根據核管法他要研議的話他才會他先評估安不安全然後才會送核安會嘛核安會是不會主動去了解他安全或不安全嗎過程中我們會去去視察透過視察的方法所以我們現在我們今天8月23票8月23號大家投票前如果台電他沒有去做這個動作的話我們並沒有辦法得到核安會的一個報告或者是告訴社會大眾他是安全還是不安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9790.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9813.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
沒有辦法那這樣子8月23號公投我覺得既然這個案子已經進入到8月23號這個公投案如果政府機關可以多負起責任不是被動的去接受別人的申請我覺得是比較有助於社會大眾做出判斷不然的話這個到底安不安全這個到底是誰說的算當然是核安會是最權威的機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9815.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9836.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
呃 跟我原說明的話沒關係我後面還有別的問題啦那 再來啦因為政府一直講說我們不排除不排除核能嘛特別是針對一些新型的核能像SMR這個很多人都在講這個東西我想要確定一下主委就你的了解台灣可能部署SMR大概是什麼時候啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9839.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9860.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
SMR國際研已經有一些廠商開始做研究了目前大概2030年國際才會有商業化的2030年才會有商業化那台灣部署大概什麼時候如果可行的話一定是2030年以後的事情這部分請高組長跟委員說明高組長不是高院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9863.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9880.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
是 報告委員 那個因為就是西方世界比較成熟的要2013年商品化那個過程不用再解釋了我現在是問說到底什麼時候當然定一個目標說我們不排斥新集合的人那到底什麼時候不會到2040還是2050的吧我們現在一個計畫 四年級的計畫我知道喔 我還幫你用紅筆列出來你有一個四年級SM大規模的計畫每年要爭取一億經費啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9888.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9910.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那四年之後就是2029年啊那2029年我們就會有SMR嗎商轉化以後就是成本全面的幾個模組會比較貴所以也許二三十個模組以後它的價錢或cost down下來技術會比較穩定成熟所以也許商轉以後也許再過個兩年一兩年兩三年國家台灣再來決定要不要引起所以是2025加420292029再加2 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9916.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9933.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
2031年再來考慮這幾個不同的商業的M3R的模組然後考慮要用哪一種 是不是我們的模組在四年計畫會提出一個建立看使用哪一個模組所以按照你的講法是2031年嘛是嘛 所以何安會的講法是說2031年可能我們就會決定SMR就可以開始部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9943.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9959.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我們沒有誤會你的意思那時候才判可不可行那時候才判可不可行那看可不可行還要多久才會開始興建2031年我們大概就知道就知道了那好那確定2031年可以確定要做不做那要做之後那興建一個要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9961.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9988.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那現在時間是比較短大概多久三年所以2031再加3是2034差不多差不多等於是十年後我們可能可以用到SMR的這個電是不是如果證明可行的話十年後還需要滿足核安核肺射入物質的調整那我接下來繼續問因為有很多專家學者也有提到說SMR的核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9992.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10015.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那我們現在核廢到底要怎麼處理?像SMR是現在你們研究的方向嘛,那SMR如果有核廢料的話要怎麼處理?SMR的核廢料有些跟比線差不多,有些比較少,所以不是一定比較多不是一定比較多,我知道那所以你現在是確定選擇商轉的SMR是要選擇核廢料比較少的是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10016.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10023.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
應該是這樣應該是要選核廢料那比較少還是會有嗎還是那你們現在怎麼去處理這些核廢料這個不能請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10024.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10040.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
報告委員 那個核廢料分兩種SMR產生第一放的核廢料跟現在的第一放是一樣的處理方式他產生的告放就是先固化 然後儲存然後將來 將來是要送最終處置廠那最終處置廠現在計畫在哪裡現在計畫在台電在執行中 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10050.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10075.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我今天沒有把那個表格列出來啊這個每一次大家都在問這個啊最東廚師廠定一個計畫出來但是到底進度有沒有按照那個計畫進行嗎有嗎?他這個師生有言辭這個我都知道了我之前問過我就不重複問了那再來我來問因為我們大家關心這個東西都主要是怕缺電嘛怕缺電才會問這個東西我問一下中研院好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10080.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10103.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
跟中原會請教一下氫能的問題這個是中原會報告裡面講的跟台電公司合作在113年6月提案114到117年度公共建設計畫有一個天然氣去碳燃氫的一個系統建置跟試驗計畫是四年的那裡面裡面寫到是說到時候是會把這個燃氫的技術串接到燃氣的發電機 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10105.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10121.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
換句話說,按照字面上的理解,它會增加發電嗎?還是說它只是把原來燃天然氣的機組,把它改成燃氫?是把原來的機組做一些...所以它並不會增加發電嗎?我們請那個...你們為什麼講話都那麼小聲?可以對麥克風講話嗎?那我們請環面中心陳於高主任跟委員詳細報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10130.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10153.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
好各位原報告燃氣就是原來的天然氣轉成氫氣來燃燒電力不會增加那可能還會犧牲一小部分的這個電力不過呢產出的是無碳的電對我知道我剛剛講說我們現在在討論會不會缺電問題嘛因為政府一直告訴大家啦我們現在綠能有很大的發展有兩個部分一個是燃氫另外一個是地熱對不對那 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10158.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10184.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這個論述的方式是跟大家說大家不用擔心啦我們現在技術很好啦我們有地熱會增加發電啦藍青會增加發電可是按照剛剛中原委員的說法沒有啊只是把藍天藍氣串接到藍青而且他剛剛那個主任講的說法還是說他還可能會消耗一些電力啊所以藍青沒有增加電力啊只是減碳嘛沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10185.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10207.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
所以這個沒有辦法增加電力我們現在想要知道的是政府發展綠能有什麼方式可以比如說大家現在都說要非核非核那之後綠能怎麼去補這一塊藍青看起來是沒有辦法他只能減碳是委員剛剛已經說了地熱的發展就是來補這一塊的因為我們原來是沒有地熱的對 那地熱現在的計畫是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10209.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10225.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
現在地熱我們從淺層的往深層的去深層去它的量體就會比較大所以這未來的一段時間在地熱的探勘上會著力的比較多地熱我下一次有時間我再跟中研院請教那接下來我想問一下中研院人才招募的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10226.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10245.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
這個是中研院人才培育跟研染計畫我看前面有前面兩項一個是研染資深學人另外一個是與國內大學培育國際研究生計畫這兩項計畫應該都是朝國際招攬招攬人才嘛但是它就出現一個就是目標值跟實際值的落差譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10246.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10263.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
比如說我們看第一項延展資深學人113年度目標值10人但實際值只有3人114年度也是一樣目標值只有10人實際值只有3人想問一下說為什麼總是沒有辦法招到足額的優秀人才來 鍾妍玉好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10264.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10285.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
跟委员报告现在这个表当初只是立了三年其实111年的时候实际值其实有九人最近这个是资深学人资深学人的意思是说他在国外已经有或者是有长聘的职位或者是有一些讲座的职位这些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10286.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10313.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
對我們來講都是一個很大的挑戰希望他們能夠到台灣來工作有的並不是台灣的中華民國國籍我知道我是問說為什麼目標跟實際有落差有些這個期望目標值但我們設的都蠻高的所以實際上是因為目標值設太高是不是我們可能會再看以後看把目標值調低喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10313.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10325.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
不是我們會盡力努力啦我想我們希望這個都能夠能夠達到因為你們設目標值10人實際3其實有很大的落差那我現在問你們困難在哪裡你的講法是說沒有沒什麼困難是因為目標值設太高這個說法就大家比較不能接受那我覺得這邊有一個建議啦你參考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10336.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10355.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
因為川普有篩檢研究經費嘛75%的科學家考慮離開美國那國外呢有一些其他國家已經在考慮招攬這一些因為這個川普篩檢經費離開的這些研究人員像法國歐盟啊他們都有訂出一些計畫然後跟這些招手啦我認為你可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10356.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10369.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
參考一下歐洲國家的經驗看他們怎麼去針對這些可能因為美國預算被刪減然後離開出走這些人才讓他們來台灣做研究謝謝委員 只叫關心我們現在正在開始擬定一些計畫針對現在的新的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10377.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10387.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
好 謝謝謝謝葉元芝委員主管請回那我們接下來請吳佩奕委員謝謝主席 我請何安慧好 有請何安慧陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10405.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10420.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
好主委好因為等會要跟你討論有關於核一核二核三廠我們核廢料處置的問題那因為我今天要問的比較不是大的政策而是細節所以如果有業務相關的同仁要回答就直接來回答就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10421.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10427.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
那其實我要問的問題有很多時間也有限但是因為我剛剛聽到前面葉元之委員的質詢內容我有一些疑問必須要請教剛剛葉元之委員說這個核管法藍白提出來的修法也已經通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10436.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10454.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
是要讓已經停止運轉的這個核電廠也能夠再次運轉那就包含了核一核二核三但是葉元之委員說如果只要台電沒有提出要再運轉的申請那自然就沒有延續或者繼續運轉的問題我現在請問一下有關於核三廠目前台電有沒有向核安會提出要再運轉的申請沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10462.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10471.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
沒有嘛 對但是呢 昨天在立法院通過了什麼是由藍白來贊成提出通過就是關於核三廠要繼續運轉的公投案所以呢 這個問題我覺得很奇怪確實台電沒有提出申請但是還是立法院的政黨可以的這些立法委員可以來提出公投案那就是國人現在關心的嘛到底核三會不會繼續的運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10492.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10512.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這個不僅是關乎於台電有沒有提出申請它事實上是可能成為政黨之間的這個提案然後也會對整體社會造成有可能的影響也就是確實核三長在未來是有可能繼續運轉所以我們要關心的是什麼就是核廢料到底要如何處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10514.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10524.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
這個不是意識形態裡面之爭我們要務實來看待我請教一下現在我們的核一核二核三廠的燃料棒目前是怎麼處置的 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10527.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10553.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
縣型的情況報告委員目前燃料放就放在水池裡面但是都在放在燃料池內是不是那合一廠的部分因為他的乾除設施已經開始運轉所以已經有陸陸續續會把合一廠的廠內那個燃料池內的用過燃料搬移到乾水處陸續在移動 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10554.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10578.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
所以呢在沒有乾式儲存草的情況下我們現狀這個使用過燃料棒就必須要放在燃料池內是不是這樣子是好那台灣目前我們在規劃的是室外乾除廠有兩座室內乾除廠有三座是不是是所以核三廠我們有沒有規劃室外乾除廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10580.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10597.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
河山廠有規劃要興建一座室內乾式儲存對 河山廠我們規劃是室內乾式儲存 室外沒有嘛那現在我們河一 河二廠的這個燃料池內的燃料棒這個是不是已經都幾乎要將近滿足了 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10600.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10613.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
對 幾乎要滿儲所以未來我們合一合二廠的室外乾儲廠你會先做好嘛 室外對 新建完成之後就會把燃料棒從燃料池內移出到乾式儲存廠內 是嗎是的好 那現在和珊廠的燃料池內儲存的燃料棒的情況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10619.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10638.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
你們預計 因為現在是已經除液 已經停止 已經停機了所以目前是沒有持續增加燃料棒的問題但是按照你們原先預估的這個時程目前的燃料池 它的空間還能夠再儲存使用過燃料棒最多是幾年就如同委員所提供的 大概四年多 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10643.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10668.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
四年多在乾除廠衛星艦完成的情況下河山廠的燃料池裡面燃料棒最多最多就是假設不管你要延續還是要再運轉最多最多就是只有四年份的燃料棒我們的燃料池可以儲存嘛對不對那目前在野黨修過的版本核管法的再運轉最長是可以到幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10670.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10681.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
最長是20年 按照新的法規在甘氏儲存廠未興建完成的情況下請問我們河山廠的燃料池有辦法來儲存20年的燃料棒嗎所以沒辦法 那怎麼辦 必須要興建沒有錯 我們現在的甘氏儲存廠 河山廠我們預估最快最快什麼時候可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10695.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10716.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
跟委員說明台電公司河山廠的室內乾除計畫在今年的2月他已經辦理採購文件的公開閱覽然後台電公司是希望在今年底能夠決標那預期是在121年6月完工啟用他願意規劃啟程 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10717.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10736.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
希望今年底可以絕標 代表什麼都還沒有招標出去啊河山廠的甘廚廠 連招標都還沒有完成我都不要問完工 連動工都沒有動工我們按照最理想的情況 假設今年招標完成 明年動工最快最快也要七年後 121年才有可能完工喔那如果按照現在藍白的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10741.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10748.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
要來公投 今年 明年 河山廠就要來研議 叫無縫接軌來重啟讓你無縫接軌好了 最多再用幾年 再做四年還是得要停機啊 是不是這個樣子因為就是我們一再說的 核電的使用 你要考量是它的這個核廢料如何處置嘛 這個不是未來式 這是現在進行式 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10765.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10779.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
如果研議了 現在無縫接軌直接使用了結果 核三廠的燃料池的核廢料最多最多 你只能再用四年沒地方放 因為該是儲存廠七年以後 最快還是七年喔有可能是八年 九年以後 才會蓋好嘛那請問 四年到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10783.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10790.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
是不是就要停機如果不停機那這些使用過的燃料棒請問要放到哪裡燃料池滿了沒地方放了啊這個不是說核廢料放你家還是我家的問題我連乾式廚藥廠都沒有你沒有這個空間怎麼放 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10798.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10803.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
不是兒戲大家開玩笑討論吵架說不然放我家你家沒有燃料池怎麼放對不對這是很務實的問題所以因為接下來這個公投案也提出了未來倘若要舉行公投核安會作為核電廠安全的主管機關我們必須要負責任的向民眾說明倘若要因為他的這個公投提案內的文字大家要注意喔他是說要儘速運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10826.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10848.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
他不是說等你評估好了乾式儲存廠蓋好了再來運轉不是他說要進促所以一定要告訴國人按照我們河山廠既有的這個池燃料池儲存的狀況最多最多也只能再用四年還是得要停機等到就算想要運轉也必須等到我們乾式儲存廠興建完成乾式儲存廠興建完成才有可能有繼續運轉的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10857.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10877.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
才有可能有他們提案要延長20年的可能性這一點這個資訊我認為一定要讓國人清楚的知道因為我個人認為第一個安全的考量我們之前提過基於安全的考量我也和三長我認為和三長的言議是要三思的第二個即便提出這樣子的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10878.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10894.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我們要為了再運轉四年還是得要停機為了再運轉四年就要來舉辦這個全國的公投國人知道他們投下去的是河山廠再運轉四年不是運轉二十年這個是事實社會大眾要去思考因為當然都是有利有弊到底是利大於弊還是弊大於利 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10904.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10923.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
他使用的這個效期是否符合這樣子的成本效應呢一定要清楚的讓國人知道這一題在討論的是河山廠再繼續運轉四年不是二十年因為繼續運轉二十年他的前提的條件是等到我們七年以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10924.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10936.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
或者八年以後 核三廠的乾式儲存廠興建完成才有它的可行性 可開始評估好不好 一定要把資訊清楚的向國人來說明好 謝謝 謝謝主席好 諸位請回 接下來我請中研院 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10945.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10971.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
時間看錯了抱歉副院長好這個很關切的是因為剛前面委員有提到說我們教文會一直很支持中研院所以沒有刪除預算確實委員會沒有刪除但很遺憾今年到院會的時候歐小林委員還是以國民黨黨團的名義提出了來中研院的預算刪減一共刪除了兩百萬是在法學的研究那他的這個刪除的理由是認為你們中研院的法學研究沒有顯著貢獻 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10973.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10989.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
沒有顯著貢獻而當時這個現在民眾黨的立委黃國昌委員他過去因為也待過你們中委院法律所所以我特別關心他的態度他也是表態支持就是說他也認為你們中委院法律法學研究是沒有顯著貢獻的 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10990.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11006.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
在我個人看來是有貢獻究竟顯不顯著它的主觀跟客觀的評量為何這個我們不得而知所以我是希望中研院未來你們要再多加跟委員來說明因為我相信絕對是有貢獻那你們要再去把它凸顯說我們貢獻對社會所在在哪邊好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11009.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11032.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
好 謝謝最後主席可以給我一分半的時間因為我很關心AI基本法我自己也會有提案中研院在去年的時候有成立一個AI的風險研究小組你們提出了五點建議我想非常的重要其中你們認為台灣是需要及早來整備而且要有立法的因應也就是我們現在在研議的AI基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11033.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11036.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那麼去年應該是今年這個中研院也提出了AI在人文社會科學領域的應用的計劃我想請問這個計劃目前已經有核定了嗎那我們預計怎麼來進行是純粹研究還是有應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11049.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11063.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
這都有已經合訂了今年1月開始已經有20個計畫開始執行那如果委員想要知道詳細的狀況我們可以再提供後面的資料每一個所以今年已經有合訂了為什麼特別關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11064.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11078.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我看其中有一個計畫它是預計用AI來偵測和解析詐騙犯罪的金流那它是由我們中研院社會學研究所提出跟刑事警察局、警大還有清華大學合作所以在我看來像我們就會對這個計畫未來的應用會非常的期待因為刑事警察局也參與其中那詐騙是台灣現在很重大的一個社會要解決的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11089.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11103.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
所以我會希望說我們中委員未來的關於AI相關的研究如果可以跟我們這個應用可以來結合的話我想我們社會會非常期待我們也非常的支持好謝謝委員我們會努力好謝謝主席好謝謝吳佩奕委員好我們請官員請回座那我們接下來請鍾嘉斌委員質詢時間4分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11121.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11148.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
主席 在場的委員先進列席了政府軍事長官員會場工的夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們核能安全委員會陳主委跟剛剛是副主委跟主秘嗎 都請上來好了好 核安會齁 陳主委還有副主委 副主委跟主秘好 主秘 好剛剛那一位是組長嗎回答 核廢料問題的是 一併上來 好 OK 謝謝好 主委 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11150.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11177.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
這個我想我請組長來代為說明有需要你們三位幫他做補充好嗎好來請問組長核廢料怎麼處置高階核廢 低階核廢核廢料的處置低階的部分其實是不是經過這樣子那目前我們有低階儲存廠嗎有儲存廠有沒有最終儲置廠還沒有 還沒找到那高階目前放在水池冷卻區多數嘛對小部分已經到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11179.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11207.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
市內的乾除市外的乾除市外的乾除那最終處置還沒有嗎對好往下看那請問高階合肥最終處置廠目前有沒有選址條例高階經濟部有成立一個專案辦公室有沒有選址條例有沒有一個辦法來規範他們的選址方法有經濟部今年準備立這個選址條例是條例是立法對那麼我們合安會是不是認為這是必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11208.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11217.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
選址表示是不是必要的就是經濟部認為這樣子他們才有經濟部他們要立馬你們認為在河岸的立場上是不是認為應該要有比較安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11220.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11230.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
主委您認為事務程式,我就不方便問主長了,您認為是不是要有一個選址條例?河岸比較有保障?是,好,謝謝。那我們來看一下,現階段進城的河一、河二、河三,現在河一、河二剛剛已經講過了,水池裡面都滿了,用過來的都放滿了,幾乎滿了,只有河山還有一點點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11242.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11252.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
中層的部分乾式儲存池目前只有一部分進去其他兩個廠都還沒有是不是最終處事廠都還沒有好往下看那請問第一階核料目前放在什麼地方核一廠裡面是不是也放了四萬多桶是 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11257.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11279.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
核二廠是不是也放了快六萬桶連蘭嶼很無辜的蘭嶼核一核二核三也放了快八萬桶超過八萬桶是不是這樣那我們屏東的核三廠裡面也放了一萬桶好那昨天有人有在野黨去強力推動了一個公投他們先前先管了核管法核管法他們讓本來 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11282.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11297.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
本來我們核管法裡面沒有延譯這個項目他們現在說要用延譯但是目前我們所聽到的世界上有延譯的有潛力但沒有重啟的潛力你所知道的世界上核電廠有重啟的潛力嗎有沒有人知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11301.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11324.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
主委副主委或秘書長有重啟的潛力嗎目前我知道還有三座有申請但還沒有批准有申請沒有批准是不是這樣子 沒有重啟的潛力好 那麼就算是有核管法有這樣的研議的可能那這些桶子還放在核電廠裡面是不是這樣子是可以永遠放在核電廠裡面嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11325.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11346.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
他有一定期限期限大概多久到了沒有還沒還沒多久我們核准當時是40年40年也就是說核電廠開始營運後這些核廢桶放在廠子裡面只能40年那快到期了吧還有多久到期應該三廠部應該還沒大概還有幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11348.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11375.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
呃...是...確確數據我...我...三年 五年呃...不只不只 十年因為...因為他是比較後來才...比較後來的 還有十年假設還有十年的時間我們要在十年之前完成最終處置場是不是這個程序是不是這樣子所以過去我們看到了從2006年開始到了2012年 2013年所有到當時馬總統時期的江怡化院長也都在尋子到現在都還沒有確定 往下看好 飛蛾教員是不是我們的永續目標 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11377.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11396.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
是的那這個當中在2019年訂定的裡面有什麼持續推動低放核廢的最終處置的選址作業是不是這樣要盡速的把兩女的遷走完成了沒有還沒還沒嘛是不是要推動高放的最終處置設施的法制作業完成了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11398.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11418.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
還沒有嘛所以這樣的一個行政院的目標主委是不是包括核安會包括相關的行政院的機關都有責任有義務去盡速完成不管誰執政主委是不是這樣子是的下一頁好我就要結束了所以請核安會請你們就高放核廢的處置場的選址部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11419.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11441.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我當然知道這是經濟部的權責但是呢 核安會基於民眾對於核安的了解請你們呢 來進行一個全台灣各縣市的民意調查了解民眾對於高階核放 放置在該縣市的支持度可以嗎做個民意調查 我不叫你做公民投票 做民意調查因為你們要協助民眾有這個認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11443.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11462.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
主委可以嗎報告委員那個經濟部其實他有一個社會溝通計畫我現在不是在質詢經濟部我在質詢核安會核安會主管核能包括民眾對核安的認知這個認知很重要請你們去調查民眾的認知主委可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11464.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11487.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我覺得民意調查是個非常專業的東西你們可以委託專業的公司去做啊我們河岸並沒有能力去做這方面的事情這不是河岸專業這不是河岸專業但是你們可以委託專業的公司去做但是河岸要包括什麼包括民眾的安全認知是不是這樣子這個你們委託一個專業公司去做調查就至少可以給台電參考吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11487.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11512.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我覺得經濟部比較適合做這方面經濟部比較適合所以你們的答案就是經濟部那如果我請經濟部做你們也支持經濟部可以做決定是經濟部做決定如果經濟部做你們支持就對了這個有沒有有助於民眾的核安認知您覺得有沒有幫助報告委員有沒有幫助其實經濟部的這個溝通計畫裡面就有這樣的名字你覺得這樣的調查有沒有有助於民眾的安全認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11516.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11541.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我現在不是問經濟部我現在問核安會核安會如果經濟部做這樣的調查你認為有沒有有助於民眾的安全認知要不要核安會要不要關心民眾對核安的關心的安全意識他可以更讓民眾更理解到核廢料的本質主委同意了吧這樣的一個調查是有助於民眾的安全認知的核安會支持嘛對雖然不是你們做好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11545.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11546.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
中研院 周副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11567.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11590.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
好 副院长这一次我们中原院总共有五个书面报告还有一个专案报告在等一下的解读案当中那院长稍早我知道他有过来那也有把这个口头报告做了一个说明那副院长您自己本人有把所有的报告内容都看过了吗应该大致看过大致一百多页翻过一遍全部看过所以内容你都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11592.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11609.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
當然背不下來可是內容知道大概知道我想是應該要比較詳細的了解會比較好那去年我們看到在審查中研院預算的時候尤其是有很多位的委員我們都有提出來就是中研院貴重儀器使用率低下的一個問題我相信副院長還記得 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11610.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11614.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那中研院在解凍報告當中本席有看到111年跟112年的使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比那比這個110年已經改善許多了我們看到數據就是111年是7.56%然後112年是7.75%相較於110年的14.41%有進步可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11634.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11637.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
我們這個報告內容其實卻沒有提到113年貴重儀器的使用狀況那第一個呢您是因為這個報告只有針對當時我們在審查預算的時候的問題提出來但是呢現狀卻沒有提是因為這樣的原因嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11652.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11675.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那個報告現狀因為這個就是說我們的報告看寫到哪一個部分因為這個地方是寫到哪一個部分就是同一件事情所以副院長我想因為可能您沒有想到說今天那個院長沒有辦法留下來但你就是應該要做好準備那我們看到這也是本席辦公室跟你們鄉家詢問才知道113年我們又來到了11.1%所以也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11680.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11708.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們沒有去統計113年的數字可是看起來這113年我們這貴重儀器使用的狀況是更不好了耶所以呢 什麼原因不放是因為這個數字難看嘛那實際上我們在113年使用率低於20%以下的貴重儀器的佔比喔升高到這麼多那我看起來我們也每年都有編列這個貴重儀器的養護經費嘛所以報告沒有提那我想在這裡請教一下這個副院長我們要怎麼樣改善這個具體的應用措施是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11708.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11727.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
謝謝委員的關心因為我們書面報告是在去年委員會審查完以後我們就開始準備的所以那個時候那時候就準備好了為什麼到現在才來提說要解凍沒有現在解凍是因為後來不是整個公佈然後我們還要經過一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11727.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11752.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
所以你的意思是說早就準備好所以來不及更新新的狀況是這樣嗎這個東西我可以跟委員解釋為什麼11%如果說我們11%其實是9台我們回去有仔細看過這裡面所謂的使用率天低因為這幾台裡頭大概有4、5台都是在一年內剛剛新購置的所以有很多調整那個這樣子啦副院長我覺得你應該要再給我們一個詳細的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11755.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11759.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
妳要給我一個詳細的報告因為我沒有時間在這裡啊 跟妳詢問說那有幾台那到底是多久妳不能在這裡就是說打一個大概今天其實談到預算每一筆錢都非常的重要每一筆預算經費我們都要詳實我們支持中研院的這個我們支持中研院的預算但是呢 我覺得我們在報告當中也要詳細嘛這是彼此的權利義務啊 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11777.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11797.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
所以呢會後我希望能不能三天之內把這一題你剛剛所說的到底為什麼又會增加那增加的原因是什麼你說有幾台那到底是幾台你說有可能一年那到底是一年還是八個月還是兩年我們要知道找出原因來嘛好那在這個問題我相信一直存在著所以中研院也有想過要去怎麼去解決喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11798.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11810.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
所以我們也定有了一個全院性核心設施使用及管理要點那我們也希望能夠開放各界學術界研究單位跟產業人士可以來預約使用可是我看起來好像也是沒有增加所以副院長我希望把我現在本期的這個問題你一併三天之內的報告要來給我就是說我們也想去解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11823.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11846.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
可是看起來好像也不太好解決那到底是沒有必要去買這麼多貴重的儀器還是說的確這樣的貴重的儀器它就是有專門的使用而且是必要性的所以我們應該要存在那這一些你看看你都不講結果都是我們在看的時候我們去設想是不是可能有這個問題有那個問題但是不可以這樣所以三天之內把這個問題釐清楚報告送上來有沒有問題沒有問題我們會把報告給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11848.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11863.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
好 謝謝 那您請回 那主席我們請一下那個河岸會的陳明珍主委好 請陳主委對不起 再請我們那個國園院的那個高院長好不好好 有請國園院高院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11865.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11883.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
謝謝張偉我想主委我們看到其實國研院在之前他有表示說2030年國際上可能會有小型的核子反應器就是SMR的相轉所以我看到核研院也提出四年期的SMR大規模的研究計畫透過這計畫希望能夠趕上國際的腳步 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11887.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11904.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
所以呢也提出這個計畫是要向國科會來爭取每年一億以上的這個經費來投入這個研究那我想先請教一下陳主委就是說你怎麼去看或者你怎麼樣去審核這個站在這個核安會的立場會不會支持這個計畫然後來協助幫忙爭取這個預算核安會是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11910.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11925.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
是支持的,所以你認為這個計畫如何?你怎麼看待這樣的一個計畫?這個計畫值得探討,因為在理論上SMR有它的優勢,不管核安方面,在某些 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11927.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11943.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
設計它有比較低的核廢料的產生好 所以簡單的來講就是您認為這樣的計畫是很值得我們要來做很值得來支持的 對不對好 那我想據本期了解國科會其實有持續補助各界對於SMR的一個研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11944.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11972.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那近三年來我們看到補助河安會九件研究計畫總共是841萬2千那也補助了學界進行SMR相關的基礎研究計畫達到五件總共是896萬8千所以三年加起來總共補助了1738萬那但是我們看到國園院在這一年當中一年他就要去爭取過去三年總和的這個5.7倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11974.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11990.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那所以主委剛剛是有說有支持啊當然我們也覺得說也是支持可是我們要來看喔那據主委您的瞭解喔國務院提出這樣是好的計畫可是呢我們的研究量呢有沒有辦法支持這個計畫的落實執行有辦法消化掉這麼多預算嗎可以的 這點請高院長來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11996.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12012.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我們提的就是明年開始希望能夠爭取國歌會能夠核准的四年的計畫大概4.8億這樣的一個計畫規模主要是我們希望能夠做一個很系統性的那個院長針對題目好不好我想我本席講得非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12013.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12039.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
是告訴你說你現在一年要一億嘛對不對那可是我們看到其實國科會去不管是補助核安會補助其他的學術單位啊總共加起來三年也才補助一千七百多萬也就是說這些單位來申請他們能夠消化能夠去執行的就是一千多萬那你是什麼樣的量能或什麼樣的執行力你可以執行到一年一億你能不能重點講一下國營院現在有一千個員工其中有六百位可以參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12041.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12050.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
參與其中的600位所以我們這個一年一月的計畫會有600位國務院的員工共同來參與這個計畫其中核心的有100位員工會來執行這個計畫100位員工會來執行這個計畫好那所以呢我們對於執行這個計畫我們是非常有把握的是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12056.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12074.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
是 我們到時會提出一個方案好 非常有把握嘛人也夠 計畫也很好然後又有落實實行力 我覺得這樣很棒那國務院會近期有送計畫到國科會來申請預算主委 您知不知道國科會最後審核核准補助了多少經費現在還在審核之中還在審核之中 院長 多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12084.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12104.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
你指的是我們國歌會剛剛核定的一個718萬718萬左右這個是另外一個我們針對SMR的一個反應反正我們都是針對SMR嘛其中一個計畫對不對這個標的不一樣這是針對它的爐心的一個模擬那國園院現在總共提出了多少的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12105.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12111.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
按的這個預算申請今年度就是1543萬另外國科會這個是718萬總共大概2300萬一個700多萬一個1000多萬我們看起來剛剛我們都說支持這個計劃嘛然後這個大家對你們也有信心可是國研院喊出一年要申請到1億然後也有100個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12130.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12149.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
可以來執行但是你確實有提出這種700多萬1000多萬的研究計畫而且經過核准現在也不過就是一個718萬下來所以你喊得這麼大聲說我們有1億我們有100個人執行力都沒有問題但本席看到的就是我們現在這一年1億我們好像也沒有提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12150.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12177.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那所以這是一個口號嗎?還是只是一個展示一個決心卻沒有詳細可以執行的計畫內容?今年核電的已經總共一個剛剛報告過原子能計畫一千四百一千五百四十三萬加這個大概兩千三百萬那明年開始就是我們會提個一億的這個一億的計畫就是更聚焦除了這原來研究的還要擴充到三種到四種新型的反應器所以它的範圍也擴大要投入的人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12178.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12182.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
總之就是說我們現在今年是這樣啦反正就是大概兩千多萬啦然後我們後面還有中長期的計畫啦所以呢我覺得啦我們喊了漫天尬想這麼大的一個目標然後呢大家也都支持你看起來也很有把握可是內容計畫現在是空的所以呢我可不可以要求您啦那一樣我不敢講再三天啦一個禮拜之內可不可以把這個相關的計畫你送上來讓我們看看你到底啊一年啦齁這個這個一億 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12206.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12214.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
四年四億多你到底要做什麼那什麼期程要做什麼東西這可以做到嗎我們已經完成計畫書的兩百頁以上的送到我希望詳細的計畫就送上來包括剛剛我們所提到的為什麼現在的預算數跟我們的計畫差這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12224.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12238.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那最後一分鐘我想就本席知道我們學界對於這個SMR的研究的歷史很久遠那包括清華大學從民國61年我們就開始開發車載型的小型反應爐那一直到不管是運轉後來實驗沒有再繼續到後來89年廚藝拆解我覺得其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12243.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12265.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
都會有點可惜因為花這麼多的時間人力下去所以呢基於國科會跟學界的相關研究基礎我想也建議啦也看國研院你是不是應該後續也要找學界或者是清華大學再重新來合作共同來推動我們SMR研究的一個進度這樣也可以避免各方過去研究成果的浪費那個院長覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12265.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12291.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我先回答 這部分呢 國研院跟清華大學是有合作項目的他們是會密切合作 鄉協議請高院長再補充一下是 剛剛提到明年開始的四年計畫第一年一千萬我們最少會跟清華大學合作五百到一千萬這種合作項目培育人才 做研究 已經跟他們的原科院還有幾位教授都已經有初步做一個溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12293.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12309.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
好我想今天都是把這個重點來做一些提醒那我希望除了原有給我們的資料之外能夠針對今天本席質詢的地方不足的部分一個禮拜再把資訊送到我們辦公室來好嗎好的謝謝謝謝委員謝謝萬美玲委員主委請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12323.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12327.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
接下來請林錦昭委質詢林錦昭委主席林錦昭委主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12349.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12367.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我要先講一下其實藍白兩黨這樣的大動大山真的是大大影響我們部會的運作那本席要強調預算本來就應該理性監督那不是毫無理由的就讓部會那麼的難堪那我們看看中研院好了我們的業務會被砍了30% |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12370.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12399.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那可是中研院性質跟一般的行政機關不同所以我們的業務費不只是行政事務費而已我們還包含了更多的研究經費那另外研究人員的國內外參與費喔還有出國教育訓練費等等也被刪了15%還不得留用喔那所以造成很多研究人員參加學術會議要移動到南院辦活動等等都受到很大的限制那和安會負責全國的和安 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12400.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12413.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
核能安全 輻射安全 放射性廢棄物安全管制等業務那如果沒有而且你們還沒有地方單位可以支援你所以相關的經查檢查都需要核安會的業務費來支應那你業務費被動了30% |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12417.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12433.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
那各項的管制業務就存在很多的不確定性那還有我們輻射偵測中心的預算很重要那預算被凍結結果就會影響全台環境輻射的即時監測那環境輻射累積的這個劑量的監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12437.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12457.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
及其對應資源實驗室的正常運作 影響核安的管制我是認為在藍白外行干預專業 聯手亂下我國核能政策的指導起現在核能安全的管制更應嚴加重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12458.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12475.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
所以讓核物料的管制跟核電廠處理的安全管制這個預算必須要儘早解凍那才能有效的確保安全那另外本席之前在核安會議務報告備詢的時候有提到一個臨時提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12476.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12504.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
就是要求核安會對於核電拆除計畫書應該嚴加的審查同時要未雨綢繆我們要趕緊的來培訓專業的廚藝人員那並對核三停機廚藝工作儘早研議來因應所以請教主委就是說目前核電廚藝的準備工作是否有如期在進行那有遇到什麼樣的問題上代客服嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12505.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12533.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
主委我們在按照現有的條件下我們盡量把它做好是當然業務費算是有影響的對我們也盡量按照既有的條件把它做好讓它安全無虞好所以現在就是正在進行初一的工作對 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12536.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12548.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
好 那另外齁 昨天民眾黨重啟這個河山公投的這個備蘭白衣這備蘭白衣人數的優勢來粗暴通過那本席是認為預期啊 我們要來談核電 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12555.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12580.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
不如我們好好地思考說台灣如何強化電網的韌性怎麼提高再生能源的配比去年預算審查的時候本席就認為像國園院等單位其實更應該積極地發展綠能的科技研究跟新能源的科技研究所以我想請教國園院的是有關綠能發配電 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12584.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12609.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
智慧管理與效能提升技術發展計畫本期看到你們這個報告那有寫說成功開發本土化配電網路管理平台有效管理雲林線配電潰線與再生能源並往發電並推廣到全台13個縣市的配電的潰線調度中心使用所以想要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12611.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12628.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
高院長是說近年來我們是否再擴大這項計畫的應用範圍普及到全台灣是的我們這個已經從一個雲林線開始取代原來外商的配電系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12631.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12655.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
13個縣市已經改用我們的系統是獨立自主我們本院研發的同時這個系統也獲得2021年全球百大的一個R&D發明獎所以我們會持續來做這個配電網的研究還有電網韌性的一個分析才持續在這個綠能增加的狀況下能夠維持這個供電的穩定度協助台電公司來做這些好 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12656.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12682.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
好 那再請教中研院就是說關於國家淨零排放那永續發展的這個社會目標我們可不可以擴大來鼓勵我們研究人員投入相關的研究案來扶植國內的產業技術升級周副院長我們請那個環境中心陳玉高主任好 好 主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12684.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12695.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我們在研發的過程中間確實對每一項我國需要的技術都做了未來的佈局所以陸陸續續都會開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12699.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12723.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
上次質詢的時候有向我們中研院請教說數位化研究資料開放的問題那主要是因為中研院各所目前有建置各自的平台那可是很難跨資料庫去檢索所以我今天還想再追問就是說我們上次數位文化中心有提到說現在的規劃建置這個Open Academy |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12727.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12746.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
希望透過一戰式的方式讓研究者可以對應各自的研究需求運用更多元的資料那本行是肯定這樣的路線可是我們通信也擔心說如果欠缺精緻化的分類處理那只是把研究資料通通不分青紅皂白塞到這裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12747.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12774.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
可能還是會難以符合這個研究的需求所以本席想要請教是說那這個平台規劃要怎麼樣整合那分類各大主題類別的資料庫那之前本席詢問說這種跨資料庫解鎖功能的時候中醫院是回覆說各研究所各中心的資料庫的收入內容相當多元而且取得內容的授權跟開放條件的名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12776.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12802.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
開放條件各異所以要統合資料庫的整合檢索執行上好像會有困難可是我如果現在規劃這個Open Academy那如何來協調各機構的這種合作以及這個資料的整合那橫向的單位的合作就會是順利的嗎哪部分又會遇到困難我們請數位文化中心主任來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12804.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12830.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
謝謝委員隨詢上次我們聽委員的意見之後我們馬上雙稳旗下一方面希望各個單位在進行他們的資料庫的檢索的時候按照上委員的標準希望能夠重新改善包括您提及的幾個比較重要的標標標譬如計時所也好台視所的一個規範我們將進行下來希望各所在既定的一個授權範圍合理之下我們能夠開放能夠讓更多的研究者或大眾能夠參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12831.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12853.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
您提到Open Academy的设计师和我们的Open Museum我们基本上是针对于个人研究者他们的需求他们自己在里面可以建立他们发展他们议题的设想然后经过议题设想收集这些材料这些材料他们可能还要到各个平台或各个数位的资料库里面去攫取然后再去收集然后在他们自己本身的资料库里面建立起来 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12854.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12873.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
資料化就可能從議題的發想資料的彙整到他們的論文的寫作寫作之後當然透過我們的Open Academy可以進一步跟這個學界能溝通然後用Outsourcing的方式使他的東西用更完美的呈現這是我們理想那當然是一個善的循環發展之後當然他們可以自己重新再規劃或開展他的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12874.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12888.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
据您谈的这个一个平台我们会另外一部分来去进行希望各个单位各个处所在合理范围就在授权方面问题的情形之下能够进行能够会认起来这是我们目前朝中的努力的方向好OK |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12890.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12918.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那中研院有關於中研院的解凍報告裡頭有提到說這個Open Academy預計年底會完成雛形那現在一年即將也就是過了一半所以目前當然想要詢問一下進度還有這個平台的主要是提供研究者使用嗎還是這個所謂的研究者指的是哪些人是有身份限制嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12919.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12943.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
還是一般的學生也算在內還是人人都可以是研究者好 報告委員我是那個中研院資訊所所長廖鴻源是那過去2006做了七年的那個數位典藏國家研究計畫研發分享的總主持人那這個問題其實先生剛剛您問的問題說年底要不要開放這件事情是一個多媒體的問題exactly就跟現在的大型圓模型相關因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12945.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12963.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
多媒體它涵蓋的範圍是語言文字還有影像還有視訊還有聲音但當我們碰到大型語言模型的時候現在要讓這些研究者能夠大家都能夠用的時候或者是學生能用的時候因為每一種媒體它被表達出來的程度是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12964.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12986.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
語言它是唯一的因為它寫白紙黑字但是聲音的時候你在處理它的時候因為它有時序上的順序所以也比較相對容易但是影像就不一樣了那因為我們現在在處理大型語言模型的時候我們希望這些東西都能夠合起來讓這個資料庫能夠被擴充能夠大量的多元然後能夠更有用更有用處 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12987.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13004.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
所以在這個部分還是大家都在研究的階段但是我們眾院有團隊非常厲害的團隊在做這個事情在資訊所還有資創中心所以我們可以把這個東西在年底我們一直都有結果出來所以變成還在研究中 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13004.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13019.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
不只我們有一直研究然後也一直有成果出來只是說剛剛我講的多媒體它被表達的程度是不一樣的所以我們的進展在事業上算是也是不錯的非常好的這個跟委員報告一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13021.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13046.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那我想另外我們想知道說我們做資料的開放跟共享我們其實還是常常會遇到所謂的著作權的問題那如果根據著作權法30條著作財產權的存續的時間是著作人的生存期間以及他死亡後的50年也就是說超過這個年限的文物或文獻就屬於公共財任何人都可以自由運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13047.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13064.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
所以智慧財產局也有回覆過本席他說如果單純將古物進行掃描轉檔通常不具有個人創意的投入這個掃描圖檔原則上並非受到著作權法所保護的著作所以想要提醒中研究人士說無論現在或將來 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13066.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13080.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
這些年代久遠已經沒有著作權問題的文獻或古物是否都能掃描上網百分百公開讓國人以及所有有興趣的人可以研究來輕鬆運用我想這個也是給一個建議應該沒問題吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13085.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13088.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
在合法的範圍內會好那不好意思最後20秒我還想提一下說為在台南的這個南部院區去年有舉辦南部開放日那吸引很多爸爸媽媽帶著小孩一起來大家回饋都很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13102.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13126.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那本席去年就有跟院長提過希望今年規模更大一點那主題更多元那可是我知道我們國內的旅費有被藍白刪了15%那而且又不得留用所以可能會影響到各所各中心想要到南部舉辦這些活動的意願跟規模所以我還是想替南部的鄉親請命希望中研院能繼續舉辦南院開放日那並且至少維持去年這樣的一個規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13131.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13153.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
不曉得有沒有機會對 我們南部院區今年開放一定會再辦那就是規模還是會維持去年量還是說還有機會更精彩如果有機會再擴大我們現在在探討各種可能性好將來會有缺定案的話再跟委員報告這件事情我們一定會做好 謝謝謝謝副院長 謝謝謝主席謝謝怡謹在外質詢 關雲君回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13167.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13194.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
好那我們現在先來處理解凍專案報告案兩案請議事委員宣讀討論事項一處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院主管預算公務預算解凍案一案中央研究院函為114年度中央政府總預算新增通過決議一列以針對114年度中央研究院經常支出業務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13196.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13219.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
七十二億六千一百七十五萬三千元 凍結百分之三十不含不包含月用人員酬金是中央研究院向立法院教育及文化委員會提出預算執行情形專案報告並經同意後 使得動之二 處理一一四年度中央政府總預算有關核能安全委員會主管預算公務預算解凍案一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13220.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13234.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
核能安全委員會函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第二款第十二項新增決議二十二業務費預算凍結百分之三十專案報告請查詐案 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13236.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13253.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
好 兩個案子喔那第一個案子是有關於中研院那凍結了11億4963萬3千元那是不是委員有任何的意見要表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13254.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13282.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
好 克什恩委員好 我剛剛在質詢那上已經問過院長了那基本上面當然我們對於冬季院要解凍我們沒有太大的意見但是很顯然我剛剛在上面的時候目前中研院還是沒有給我一個比較完整的我舉例來說就像有關於儀器的這個層面因為已經多次被提出來做一個檢討那很顯然你們發函給各大專院院校的做希望能夠提高這個使用率這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13283.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13297.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
回應我個人覺得還是沒有辦法說服我們在這個儀器就是千萬元儀器上的使用然後你們提出來就是告訴我們就是說用這個論文引用的次數那這個次數院長又說 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13299.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13302.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
不应该用次数来决定这一切的价值 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13329.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13331.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
我請副縣長可以現場回應謝謝委員因為這的確是很重要的問題我們事後會比較詳細的書面因為那幾件儀器為什麼會是這樣的它的使用率會低都有一些原因的所以我們會跟委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13344.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13372.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
有仔細的在書面報告如果說委員再有意見我們還一定會讓委員能夠對 然後最主要的原因就是說你未來還是在這提高它的這個使用率的頻率上面到底要有一個什麼更精進的一個做法好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝柯思恩委員我是不是何安也要這個時候提還是你先解決中研院好 先解決中研院OK那中研院的凍結案還有沒有什麼意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13374.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13401.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
你們是打算多久 給我這個報告一個禮拜之內可以一個禮拜 非常有誠意我們再來請范芸 還有郭鈺晴還有張雅琳只有兩個部分希望能夠後續追蹤一個就是關於中研院的院士行為準則因為你們給我的那個依據美國NAS的標準跟我看到的你們給我的英文資料有點內容不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13402.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13416.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那今天是可以解凍可是後續我等一下也會質詢那請再給我後續的追蹤報告那另外一個就是關於我關注的大型學術會議應考慮深藏者權益那謝謝你們有積極回應一個檢核表有初步做到那因為當時我們要求的時間比較趕一點那也希望你們後續給我你們怎麼執行的一個詳細的報告好嗎那其他我這樣都可以解凍沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13429.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13432.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
好 謝謝好 OK好 那我們再來請郭育晴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13433.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13461.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
好 基本上我都可以解冻没有问题但是我在想那个业务费如果是遭到30%的一个限制其实也会冲击到目前我们这个相关的研究计划的一个推进跟品质所以在包含这个人才的延揽的部分是不是也可以就这个部分到时候再提供给我一个更详细的比方说被影响的一个层面那基本上其实我们是建议还是解冻好 谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13462.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13463.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
好 那我們再接下來請張雅玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13466.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13495.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
好那我是針對就是說在報告第二三頁就是那個一般學術研究及評議的第二節裡面有關於學術研究與人才培育項目的跨領域開發及研究設施之改善那我這邊的建議是說因為報告是沒有寫到足年改善中但是專題性研究型專題研究型儀器現在是寫說會由各實驗室制定目標那是不是可以說明一下今年要達成的目標到底是什麼這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13496.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13521.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
然後再來還有一樣就是在這一個幕裡面有一個叫做基本行政工作維持費裡面我有要求就是說在我們的科普講座啊中研講堂我們是要進一步的去擴展然後同時呢要確保這個推廣效果我們要有完整的意見回饋機制所以也請中研院在針對這一點上面做個說明是會如何的去做收集那其他的我都沒有意見可以同意解凍 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13522.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13523.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
南部縣區量子晶片製程 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13538.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13552.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
還有那個量子電腦測試的實驗這個好像目前這個工程是延宕的那本來是今年初要完工看起來還沒那不曉得原因是什麼那有方式可以解決嗎那預計什麼時候會完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13556.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13575.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那個延盪我們一直跟這個承包的廠商在多次每個禮拜都在開會當中那現在應該到最後收尾的階段了在下個月內應該可以完工我們那個很多機器都已經開始搬進去了那另外那個第三期量子科技實驗大樓咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13577.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13602.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
那個去年底動工的有如期的進度都符合安排現在在做連續幣那今年都會做地下開挖好好好謝謝好那如果沒有問題的話那我們第一案就解凍那逐一動之提報院會第二案河安會河安會這個案子是凍結了8133萬2千元也是業務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13607.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13608.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
還有你們跟民眾溝通跟這樣問題的場次 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13630.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13658.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
因為賴總統說嘛這個東西一定要有社會的共識嘛還有在關核廢料的處理那其實我某種程度上認為台電在這一方面從他的預算來說的話是越來越不積極了所以我覺得要解凍我覺得這個當然問題不大而且我們這個金額也不是太多但是呢我是不是也可以請你們提供你們目前的一個進度對有關中期這個暫時儲存設施的你們像目前的一些進度是不是可以給我們做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13659.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13681.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
蘇滅的上面的一個說明可以嗎一個星期一個星期給我們交往委員會那有沒有其他委員 張雅琳委員想要問一下 因為中研院剛剛有一些希望她回答的那她是事後再跟我們討論嗎 還是再多做一些說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13682.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13702.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
沒有問題你可以再詢問一下剛剛我們講的專題性研究儀器要由實驗室制定的目標是不是可以再說明一下今年要達成的目標然後還有就是針對於我們要收集有關於中研講堂跟科普講座的一些意見回饋的方式是不是可以再做清楚的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13703.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13720.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
好 中研院中研院秘書處處長曾國祥首先先就這個科普的部分大概簡單的兩點說明就是在中研獎堂的部分事實上我們在下個禮拜也就是5月28已經會在新北的金山高中舉行那下半年度也會再有一場 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13721.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13744.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那麼至於科普的意見回歸呢我們特別會針對兒童科普的這一塊那除了會請一些相關的民調專家之外也會去參佐其他機關的這一個相關的方法譬如說台大兒童醫院他們在收集兒童的意見這方面就成效非常的卓著我們會跟他們有進一步的這個聯繫跟合作 以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13745.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13761.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我再補充一下因為其實最近兒少代表一直有來反映就是說我們整個部會整個不是只有中研院各部會在做兒少參與跟意見收集的時候都非常流於形式所以在這個部分的話我們是不是可以來找做兒童 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13762.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13786.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
意見相關參與的專家團體學者一起來針對這一件事情做收集因為問卷坦白說對於低齡的孩子並不是一個非常好非常友善的方式因為兒童醫院收集的主要還是以家長的角度這個部分是不是可以來參酌因為我不希望我在很多的兒童代表一直來反映這件事情謝謝好的非常謝謝委員的指教這部分我們一定會一併納入參酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13789.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13795.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
好 謝謝 那我們請吳立華委員我是不是也可以回應一下張委員那個針對中研 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13798.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13825.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
那個貴重儀器方面的問題有關個別實驗室有些我們貴重儀器是個別研究型的而不是服務全院或全國學院單位他們的目標會很不一樣那現在我可能沒辦法直接回覆委員那我想請委員讓我們回去蒐集這些資料再用書面來提出說明以上 謝謝好 那也請書面再來給教文委員會好 那我們接下來請吳麗華委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13828.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13844.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
好 謝謝主席關於中研院的部分因為最近原民會 科技部 中研院 國科會他們都有一個很重要的大計畫叫做原住民的知識系統那我是不太曉得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13845.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13870.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
中研院這邊他的一個刪減的影響是不是有去被影響到但是至少我看到在原住民族知識數位典藏的部分有非常多的部分都是寫說未更新啊所以我想這個部分還有關於他知識系統他到底是有沒有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13870.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13894.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
就它所分配到的任務有去配合原民會或者是教育部、文化部、國科會來執行那這個部分就看起來不得而知謝謝就說明一下就好好我可以說明一下這個中央醫院民主所的關於那個知識系統的建構那個主要 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13895.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13920.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
民族所的研究跟他們的典藏文物的收藏那他們在這個社會文化中心底下有一支計畫他們長期就把它做一個資料庫的建置據我所知 他們的研究是持續進行那這一個整建置的工作也是持續進行但是近期內為什麼沒有更新這個部分我可能要回去再了解更清楚一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13920.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13940.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
好 那就了解之後再跟五立法院報告因為剛剛我們中研院的解凍案其實已經過了就是說我們已經准予動之提報院會我們現在是在討論第二案就是核安會的解凍案那如果核安會大家都沒有問題的話那是不是就准予動之提報院會OK 好 謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13944.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13959.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
那我們接著繼續進行質詢我們請陳培宇委員陳培宇陳培宇委員質詢陳培宇委員不在喔我們請羅廷偉羅廷偉委員好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13974.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13978.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我想跟你持續關心日本核廢水的第五次報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13993.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14004.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
那日本於112年8月底開始排放這個含有川的這個核廢水我對這個議題就之前有一直在關心一直在詢問那河岸會至今第五度 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14005.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14033.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
復日 對吧是去年3月核安會業務報告的時候那時候主委還沒到任拿著核安會第三次復日的專家觀察團整個報告中作為檢測單位的這個大雄分析研究中心沒有拿到ISO的認證的一個事情也提及我方應該要去要求大雄分析中心應該要拿到這個我們現階段所看到的這個ISO認證 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14034.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14056.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
那我們在觀看的時候有被日方拒絕那主委觀察團要去的時候代表政府就已經跟日方達成協議那日本才會同意前往那既然同意我們去日本我方當然是希望可以看到現場整個處理的一個情況如果無法了解整個現場的一個整體狀況那我們幹嘛去用視訊就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14057.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14075.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
所以我希望未來每一次復日的查驗都可以看到想看的了解想要了解的這才是復日訪查的意義那主委根據第五次復日觀察實地的一個觀察我方有提問因台灣持續關注擴散模式及發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14075.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14103.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
合作國際的合作請問未來是否可以透過合作備忘錄的簽訂讓雙方維持穩定的一個技術交流將海洋大氣之擴散的一個模擬持續的精進互助互利日方的回應是非常樂意但是若有希望進行短期人員交流可以透過相關的管道赴日以學術的交流名義然後或者是大學來做一個連續也是一個可以嘗試的一個管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14104.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14121.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
建議台灣可以提供相關的一個共同研究規劃雙方再來持續洽談那我們看到這些請問主委共同研究規劃提出了嗎內容大概是什麼報告委員這方面我請張署長他比較有詳細資料請他回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14124.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14152.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
那包括委員那在擴散模擬分析的這部分我們都一直持續跟日本來去做一個技術的交流那主要的一個對象是日本的主播大學的一個教授那在國內參與的團隊有氣象署的人員以及我們國園院的人員那在人員的一個交流裡頭今年就是也是五月初的時候那日本的一個專家有到我們這邊來去做整個的一個交流包括兩岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14154.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14158.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
兩邊日本跟我們的一個監測的一個數據以及我們的海洋的一些監測觀看的一些細節的一個數據都有來去做這個交流那在模式的發展上也有去做交流所以你共同研究規劃提出了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14171.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14175.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
這個共同研究是會以MOU的一個方式所以在這一次的討論裡頭也有去討論這個MOU的一個簽訂的一個細節這個一個研究是各帶研究的資源來去共同維持一個平衡那請問你大概多久可以簽到MOU |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14188.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14200.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
現在日本這邊專家是說他們帶他回去因為竹坡那邊大學那邊有他的一個行政程序那他們把行政程序給完成了那就會儘速的還回應我們我們這邊也會來持續的追蹤竹坡大概是5月13、14來台嘛對不對但是因為我們赴日的時候是5月8號到15號是去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14212.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14232.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
我們復任是去年所以已經一年過去了我們都很期待MOU可以趕快簽訂既然珠波已經來了也完成了一部分的一些資料帶回去走行政程序是不是能夠再加緊速度不敢說是催促他們但是基本上是積極的能夠來爭取這個部分可以做到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14233.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14256.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
我們後續我們就會依委員的指示來辦理好那第五次赴日的報告呢第31頁我們有看到福島場區內的生物試育的一個試驗顯示魚類、貝類、藻類體內的這一個穿濃度不會超過環境的濃度且已轉至一般海水後可迅速降低無累積的現象台灣也於2024年6月20日 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14259.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14278.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
由國原驗設計海水川以及生物川試驗場開啟本土海水生物 寒川生物的一個累積效應的一個試驗請問主委截至目前為止我們的本土生物試驗有沒有什麼進度有沒有初步的什麼成果可以跟我們分享一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14281.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14300.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
這些資料可不可以運用在食安風險的評估上目前這個生物村我們是用養殖魚類的方式去做實驗那有沒有什麼進度目前就第一年事實上我們在一年半以前就已經開始建置這個養魚場 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14301.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14330.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
那個頓極的含川水的海水生物養殖場去年就開始做實驗那初步我們結果認為這個無積川濃度跟海水中川濃度的比例大概是0.9%這個結果跟日本東電公告的數據非常相近然後我們今年會繼續還有一年的時間那所以這一份報告裡面未來的成果可不可以運用在食安的風險評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14332.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14354.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
石鞍另外有日本食品輻射食品魚類的那個川的檢驗那跟這個計畫是分開的是分開的那這一份報告主要是要適用於後續要怎麼樣規劃就是海水川透過生物這個就是單純研究海水川它的生物是否遞檢是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14357.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14378.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
這個我們去年有一個初步的報告給到貴院但我要講的就是說不管是海水內的生物川或者是我剛剛講的食安的問題我們都擔心嘛 打撈的到那個漁民打撈到這相關的漁類的時候可能會有相關的一些生物含川的問題所以還是不離我們現階段最關心的就是食品安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14379.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14407.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
所以當然你說他有另外一個計畫但我們也希望說透過每一個計畫能夠交叉的數據能夠再累積出更加安定的這些報告成果讓國人能夠安心食品安全這個部分你們是專業我們當然尊重但是也要反映出民眾現在的擔憂就是所謂的相關食安問題這個部分也希望你們能夠幫忙一起研究出更加穩定的一個相關成果讓我們國人能夠安心是的 好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14408.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14437.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那報告指出福島核電廠設置有多重緊急的阻斷的一個方式遇到設備異常地震或停電可以手動自動來停止排放2024三月地震四月電力中斷均導致這個排放的暫停經檢查後才恢復作業好 主委我方代表對於日本這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14437.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14452.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
多核種除去設備非常關心也多次詢問此設備請問現在我國目前針對福島排放異常事件的跨部會聯繫機制是否都在第一時間掌握異常並對外說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14455.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14477.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
報告委員 因為我們跟台日的交流是蠻頻繁的所以那邊如果有異常的話他們都會在第一時間通知我們另外我們也會根據IAEA的資料去掌握日本目前的排放狀況好 那所以剛剛說我們互動頻繁我們什麼時候啟動第六次赴日的實體訪查 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14479.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14494.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
八位委員那個第六次因為台日有簽署相關的這個協定所以我們每年一年在台灣一年在日本都會辦理會議那今年我們的會議是預計在十月會在台灣對在日本會辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14495.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14524.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
好 好 謝謝那另外我想關心的就是說核關法三讀後有多少的執法要修那針對核關法修法後賴總統昨天也表示核安會必先訂定安全審查辦法台電在依照這個辦法去做自主的安全檢查評估有無重啟的一個安全條件重啟的期程與成本的效應那政府都會秉持著核安無虞核廢有解 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14525.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14528.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
我們現在已經開始著手進行這個法條的有沒有預估何時會完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14555.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14582.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
大概四個月左右四個月 因為其中兩個月是要公告有多抓了嗎還是因為按行政程序我們按照行政程序有兩個月是必須公告然後前面做跟後面做所以加起來大概四個月應該可以完成好 四個月那我們期待那另外針對SNR這個目前台灣對此的研究做得如何有沒有什麼可以分享的 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14585.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14610.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
包委員現階段除了申請中每年一億的計畫我們現在執行中的兩個計畫不好意思 您的聲音可以再大聲一點嗎對 我們現在執行中兩個計畫一個原子能系統的計畫我們是針對這個核電廠被動式安全的機制還有爐心動態 爐心熱水的嚴重事故來做一些SMR的特殊的分析那另外國科會補助的一個計畫710萬人士壓水室 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14613.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14636.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
SMR的一個爐心的模擬跟革正技術我們強調就是如果說要將來有可能這個設計需要在比較人口比較密集的時候他怎麼能夠有一個革正的技術的設計所以目前進行是主要是這兩個計畫這兩個計畫那目前台灣系統性培養合工人才的學術單位目前只有清華大學 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14637.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14658.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
那以及原子科的學院但主委上次在上個月的備詢也坦承過去20年合工人才的流失非常嚴重主委那人才培育要如何來做你有沒有具體的一個中長期培育計畫就很多方面一起做包括譬如說我們跟大學的合作研究國研院跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14659.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14676.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
大學的研究也是培養人才的一個管道也將吸引更多學生加入核能研究的行列包括國研院也增加他們的研究實力這部分我請國研院再補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14678.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14698.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
我們事實上就是SMR部分跟清華大學今年跟明年有多次的三個系主任院長都帶來跟我們做很密切的交流就是只要我們這個一億的計畫上來我們會相當的經費會補貼學校老師來培訓員工同時他們最近兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14700.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14725.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
上個月也請我們互派師資我們會派師資有個核能學程系統的學程我們會有研究人員去當面協助他們授課培育新的員工那另外合隆合方面也跟成大 清大的物理系還有這個國安中心這其他學校也有人才的一些培訓那合工我們將來如果有更有 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14727.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14754.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
計畫的話希望是不是能夠因為畢竟念合工的人念博士學會的比較少智慧比較少啦但是我們要抓到未來的趨勢嘛這個主委都說了人才一直在流失那SNR有可能是未來的趨勢那如果到時候趨勢已經來了我們又沒準備好沒有相關的人才那基本上我們就已經輸國外的這相關的一些技術可能很多年 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14755.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14773.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
後續當大家在流行這個技術這個能源政策的時候我們有沒有人才去做相對應的一個把它銜接到這個政策那這個部分會更喪失第一銜機所以主委人才的培育很重要拜託你好不好這個一定務必要先行做 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14774.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14795.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
我們也希望爭取教育部公費留學有一個合共這個項目因為這個項目已經停了很多年了我們希望明年開始有恢復合共這個項目我們也會一起幫忙催促但是基本上你們在院會的時候自己內部的跨部會協調你們也要再加強一起加油好嗎謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14798.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14807.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
好 謝謝羅廷偉委員 謝謝好 我們主委跟所有的長官請回我們接下來請楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14819.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14829.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
主席要請何安慧以及中研院一起我們請何安慧陳初瑋中研院首副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14836.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14864.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
兩位好我們邁向的非核家園國人都非常的擔心在整個供電穩定以及火力發電所帶來的一個空污的問題那隨著AI的發展呢日益的蓬勃那我國當然非常的希望能夠要有穩定而且乾淨的能源但台灣除了台灣內部的各種批評之外呢美國的批評也沒有停過著名的外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14865.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14887.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
這個外交家的雜誌呢在5月16號呢就在網站上刊出了一篇台灣為自己製造的致命弱點也就是淘汰核電那顯示非核的主張不只引起我們國人的一個反彈國際社會也非常的關心所以本席首先要請教我們核安會有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14888.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14894.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
制定安全審查辦法的時程表那麼政府到底會不會繼續使用核能請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14897.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14921.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
先回答政府要不要繼續使用核能這由能源的主管機關來決定就是經濟部以及台電根據他們的需求跟各種因素來決定要不要繼續使用核能核安會只是監管機關所以不會介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14924.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14930.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
那河岸會有沒有定定安全的審查辦法有沒有做這方面的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14931.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14955.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
有啊 我們因安全審查就有我們的詳細辦法所以在核管法裡面就有規定 請高組長跟委員說明好 組長請做說明跟委員說明喔 那目前核安外就按照大院所通過的核管法修正的條文然後就要配合修訂執法 然後也要嚴禮相關的管制規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14955.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14963.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
那你們有沒有一個時程表非常感謝你們預估你的時程表大概會多久會出來這個執法修訂大概四個月四個月要會出來你們的這個審查辦法的時程表大概四個月之後四個月會出來會給各位報告是的好那這個四個月當中當然剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14981.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14984.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
這個韓匯所做的說明決定權當然在經濟部那所以呢本席要繼續來跟你討論我們叫核管法這個三讀修正過後呢那延長核電廠的運轉的實現所以卓魁也表示那過去台灣也曾經有核電廠研議的經驗但是能否完全的移轉到這個核電廠的重啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15010.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15016.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
仍舊需要河安會做專業技術的認定那認定之後後續才由經濟部或者台電來決定是否重啟那所以院長也表示到目前為止沒有辦法這麼精準的算出他的程序到底要多久那我也歡喜聽到河安會這邊大概在四個月內那麼所以在這樣的情況之下本席仍舊要請教河安會我們目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15039.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15042.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
因為政府一直在告訴我們核能的新技術它才開放的這個態度我們一直聽到的這個訊息是如此那本期要請教核能會對於核能新核能的技術我們的了解有多少你們的研究有沒有在做這個可行性的一個評估來請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15060.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15075.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
現在小型模組化SMR在國際間有很多地方在從事這方面的工作目前還沒有一個上轉的SMR出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15077.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15091.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
大概2030年左右才會有所以也就是新核能的技術我們還是密切的關注之我們真的非常的希望怎麼樣讓我們的國內的這個電可以穩定也跟世界的一個潮流技術等都能夠密切的來結合這一點是非常的重要所以我也期盼我們剛剛所回答的在這四個月內我們可以聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15106.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15120.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
我們的這個新的審核機制到底是怎麼樣我們一起加油 謝謝好 謝謝楊瓊英委員大家請回我們接下來請范雲委員好 感謝周委喔你就先請我們那個河岸會主委好 有請沈主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15138.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15165.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
主委那個午安辛苦了我想我們非核家園不到五天就有政黨急推重啟核電廠的公投而且這個公投提案的主文如同我昨天所說的明明是重啟他故意寫成繼續運轉用一個灰色地帶讓大家感覺到他只是演繹那主委確定這應該是重啟不是演繹嗎沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15167.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15170.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
法規是寫在繼續運轉,事實上它的語譽上是要繼續運轉20年 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15187.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15206.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
但是概念上已經核三廠已經現在講的是核三廠已經停止了嘛所以原意是說是在繼續運轉的情況下事前五年為什麼就提出申請那他已經是在非核家園之後要繼續運轉概念上就是重啟嘛這樣有錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15217.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15230.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
因為我之前也一直問何安慧你們有沒有在關注俄烏戰爭的經驗中何設是容易成為戰爭中的攻擊目標那根據我自己看到的還有你們給我的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15231.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15248.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
那俄烏戰爭之後,那其實國際原子能總署IAEA它不止一次,它去年4月就發聲明說我們正危險地接近核事故因為俄羅斯不只是攻擊而且控制了歐洲最大的核電廠,在烏克蘭的扎波羅勒核電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15253.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15275.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
國際原子能總署還特別提出說武裝衝突中核電廠要有所謂的核安必須要有七大支柱場外電源供給不中斷的供應鏈輻射監測系統跟緊急應變溝通完整設施安全跟安保系統操作人員要能夠如常履行職責 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15277.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15302.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
然後IAEA說烏克蘭的每一項支柱都受到損害這當然就是說跟俄羅斯不顧相關的公約有關那俄羅斯會這樣做我想中共有沒有比俄羅斯友善我是一個很大的問號而且俄羅斯跟烏克蘭在陸地上是接著的那中共跟我們中間有一個台灣海峽 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15304.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15313.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
請問主委根據這個烏克蘭的經驗核電廠若遭遇戰爭的時候有什麼國安風險主委可以簡單告訴我們嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15319.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15341.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
我們判斷核電廠受直接攻擊的機率不高不高是多高?10%高叫做高還是不高?應該是很低,因為國際公約也...那俄羅斯為什麼會這樣子對待烏克蘭的核電廠?如果不高的話,俄羅斯這個是百分之多少?因為烏克蘭沒有... |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15343.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15352.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
烏克蘭的核安做得沒有台灣好嗎?你是要這樣講嗎?要我們信任台灣的核安會嗎?核安會有武裝部隊嗎?沒有嗎?就是剛剛的這七個國際原子能總署後來還去駐烏克蘭的那個場耶我們沒有辦法,我們在IAEA的地位裡面是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15368.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15378.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
他說這七大1234567可以問一下福島市這七大中的哪一個出問題你們應該知道吧福島事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15379.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15387.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
跟委員報告輔導它是一個比較複雜不過就在這七個好了安全的七大支柱輔導是哪一個還是數個出問題它其實是比如說場外的電源失去對就是這個要有一個場外電源供給可以冷卻嘛那輔導事前有想過說有這種安全風險嗎它也會說不大甚至它說零對不對你說不大是多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15406.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15433.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
福島其實它在設計上它本來就有廠外電源對 設計上有了還是出問題嘛所以福島的核災就是告訴我們說你認為沒有問題的風險零的時候都可能有風險剛剛主委是說不大不大是說有對不對那我們現在在非核家園前核能佔我們的整體能源供應的百分之多少你們應該知道吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15436.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15445.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
現在是零嘛 之前是佔多少?517之前大概3%我們有必要為了這3%的能源去說全國放冒這麼大的風險嗎?對不對?這是一個理性的問題嘛那一旦就是說在戰爭時期如果跟烏克蘭一樣的話那請問河山廠那個輻射範圍會多少?主委可以告訴我們嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15465.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15475.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
就如果電力要真的出了問題像福島一樣那輻射的安全範圍內會影響多少是影響到哪一個城市可不可以告訴我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15477.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15496.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
跟委員報告其實這個戰爭最大的威脅它來自於說它會攻擊核能電廠之後會造成核能廠大範圍的火災它並不會直接就導致於說會有輻射外勢依照目前國內我們在這一塊的一個應變方式我昨天還追問你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15500.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15525.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
場外電源出問題最後會怎麼樣你們告訴我說是場外電源如果失去的話依照目前國內的核能電廠最後就是輻射外線我們是有各種的電源那福島是不是曾經也有各種電源就是這裡面一個場外電源因為你需要外面的電源才能夠冷卻嘛福島它是一部一部烏克蘭是不是有三個外部電源最後都被破壞它是多重的事故發生之後導致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15526.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15529.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
是 那我請教你啊你覺得中共跟俄羅斯比起來哪一個比較邪惡啊我想只要是戰爭我們都應該要避免是 那福島的事情就一個場外地緣供給都出問題了你可以告訴我說剛剛主委是說不大我不知道我們的林怡瑾招委聽了覺得不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15548.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15567.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
是多少?是我們能容忍的範圍內?它是因為整個海嘯造成的所以它不是一個單一的一個場外電源失去的所以IEA這七項都是一個核能電廠要維持安全必要的項目的確札波羅在戰爭的狀態下這每一項都接受挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15567.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15574.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
每一項都被挑戰了尤其是三個主要的外部電源讓它冷卻的都曾經三條都中斷了要不然你覺得IAEA有必要發聲明連我看到愛沙尼亞都發聲明譴責然後要求俄羅斯不能夠再不顧核安 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15588.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15607.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
因為這些國家都是在附近的那我們台灣呢 核安會都沒有給我們相關的訊息還要我跟你們問才有然後主委說不大我不知道不大是屬於多大那我其實就是一件事啦所謂的安全評估請把戰爭風險裡面的核安風險一起評估進去主委可以答應嗎我們就以烏克蘭俄烏戰爭作為就是說經驗值好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15619.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15626.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
你不能想像中共會比俄羅斯友善嘛因為我們中間還有台灣海峽嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15628.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15648.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
這方面我們就已經報告在裡面了因為我們已經要求分散式的多重水源與電源我知道你們現在都說就像福島曾經以為一切都沒問題啦你現在都有一關又一關最後還說可以人力水冷卻我都當面問過你們了我的意思是說人都有可能出問題嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15650.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15675.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
那就是你們剛剛就是避重就輕連輻射會到哪個城市都不願意告訴我們那我想這個部分對不只是屏東人高雄人連我們在場召委台南人都不能接受好不好就是因為後來你們問到連這個輻射都有可能到福建然後何安慧能跟我講說因為這樣子中共應該不會做這樣的事吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15676.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15691.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
你認為是這樣子嗎我沒有辦法接受這種不精確的答案報告給我們好不好 河安風險應該要包含最壞的狀況再來謝謝竹威請回 辛苦了我們請中研院副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15694.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15718.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
委員好 副院長好 本來要問院長啦 但是因為院長很忙 所以就問副院長這個院士退場機制 我之前的預算就剛剛已經讓你們過關了 但是還是要追問因為就是民間 不是只有我 民間2019年你們的院士跟習近平站在一起 沒有保護香港城市大學的學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15719.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15745.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
2021年我們的院士協助中國政治打壓學生2021年我們的院士在美國涉及協助中國滲透被捕然後被調查所以我講院士一定要有不適任的在國外還有院士性騷性侵的所以我們目前已經有這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15746.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15766.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
所以問你們要怎麼處理然後呢因為你們這個我知道有一定的難度因為就是要涉及到院士所以我請你們一步一步來理解要針對五個民主國家怎麼去規範然後你們給我的報告法國 日本 義大利就兩三行就要打發我們這樣不對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15767.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15782.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那你們說你們是參考美國的NAS喔可是NAS那你們給我們的英文資料跟我看到的一樣可是你又沒有把它全文翻譯那以我跟我辦公室讀起來人家就是有一個評估委員會呀那當然就是說那你們宣稱分成 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15784.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15798.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
任職本院跟非任職本院你是說非任職本院譬如說這個在香港大學的要由那個機構去處理撤銷什麼那香港中大香港大學又不聽我們的他如果就聽習近平的那我們不就不能處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15799.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15824.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
可不可以再次檢討,那我要求很簡單,30秒之內有外在威脅的民主國家,譬如芬蘭他們怎麼處理這樣子的一個最高榮譽的院,類似院士的制度我們可不可以找幾個讓我知道,讓我們教文委員知道一下,好不好因為我們的情況跟義大利法國畢竟不一樣嘛好,我們會再做一些好,你說要香港大學處理,他又不聽你的,他要處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15826.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15845.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
好 對不對香港大學我們都參訪過很多老師都離開了到台灣到澳洲到英國去就是因為沒有學術言論自由了好不好好那就多久之內可以給我三個月好嗎三個月兩個月吧你們的研究能力這個不用三個月吧好兩個月好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15849.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15876.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
好 謝謝范雲委員我們所有的官員請回剛剛范雲委員提到了兩個報告一個是有關於核安 國安的相關報告還有就是中研院要規範最高榮譽人員的制度如何規範的制度這是兩個月 其實這個報告除了送范雲委員 也一併送教育委員會好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15878.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15880.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
何欣淳 羅明才 鄭振乾 蘇清泉 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15896.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15913.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在我們今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢另外有林沛翔委員提出書面質詢關於今天會議做如下決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15914.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15932.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
或相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料及未及答覆的部分請相關機關盡速書面答覆114年度中央政府總預算有關中研院解凍案6案 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15933.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15955.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
核能安全委員會主管預算包括公務預算解凍案9案行政法人國家原子能科技研究院解凍案1案業已審查完均均予以動之提報院會報告院會本次議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位 |