| IVOD_ID |
16685 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16685 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-35-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-19T08:31:29+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-19T11:54:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:23:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d9d66b4f497eb78a005125cde79cd088952bdb8234cc31cac5bd5fcf0591461c95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等48案。（詳如附件）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:29 - 11:54:59 |
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走走走 |
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1717.472 |
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1726.866 |
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報告委員會初期委員8人已足法定人數現在開始開會請議事人員先讀上次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1729.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1752.088 |
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立法院第十一屆第三會期外交及國防委員會第十四次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國114年5月15日星期四上午九時一分至十一時三十六分地點紅樓森林一會議室出席委員盧敏林等十一人逆襲委員盧明才等六人逆襲人員國家安全局副局長黃明昭及所屬人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1752.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1779.962 |
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海洋委员会海巡署副署长谢庆青大陆委员会副主任委员沈友宗法务部调查局主任秘书于尚贤主席沈昭吉委员博洋报告是想一宣读上次会议意思录决定确定二邀请国家安全局海洋委员会大陆委员会法务部调查局报告中国复核式威胁对我国家安全之影响并被质询国家安全局副局长黄明昭报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1780.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1797.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
委員沈博洋等15人質詢軍有國家安全局副局長黃明昭督察處南副處長海洋委員會海巡署副署長謝慶清大陸委員會副主任委員沈有忠及法務部調查局主任秘書余尚賢等即席答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1798.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1813.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
決定一登記質詢在場委員均發言完畢報告及巡打結束二委員口頭質詢為其答覆或要求提供資資訊請相關機關與二周內已書面答覆本會全體委員並赴資本會委員令指定期限者從期鎖定宣讀完畢先來介紹在場的委員那我們沈伯陽召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1827.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1853.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
介紹列席的官員部長林佳龍亞東太平洋司司長藍夏琳西亞籍非洲司副司長陳永博歐洲司副司長林祖恩拉丁美洲籍加勒比海司司長鄭麗晨 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1856.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1884.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
北美司司長王良義條約法律司副司長許博義國際組織司司長孫簡元國際合作及經濟事務司司長連玉平國際傳播司副司長蕭美惠研究設計會副主任林世新 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1888.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1912.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
礼宾处处长陈欣欣秘书处处长陈锦麟人事处处长吕世怡政风处处长于世民组织处处长陈贝华李贝华,对,抱歉资讯及电务处处长林启文 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1916.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1943.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
公眾外交協調會執行長肖光偉非政府組織國際事務會副執行長康佳琦台灣日本關係協會秘書長范振國台灣美國事務委員會秘書長邱高偉外交及國際事務學院副院長陳文宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1946.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1971.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
領事事務局代理局長陳善友財團法人國際合作發展基金會秘書長黃毅林財團法人台灣民主基金會副執行長盧業忠財團法人太平洋經濟合作理事會秘書長許俊斌 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1973.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1989.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
行政院主席總署專門委員邱碧珠河南安全委員會科長吳明哲補充介紹王定宇委員陳靜宇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2001.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2008.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
確認議事錄,請問在場的委員對於上次會議,議事錄有無遺漏、錯誤或需要更正之處?沒有,那議事錄確定。請議事人員新讀報告及討論事項。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2019.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2035.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
報告事項二處理院會交付一百一十四年度中央政府總預算決議外交部主管預算提出書面報告後使得動資等二十二案第一案第四幕向下協助各種國際交流活動預算凍結一百萬元案第二案第五幕向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2036.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2060.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
加強雙邊及多邊合作之對外之捐助預算凍結200萬元案第三案 隱私事務局第二幕向下加強領務服務工作預算凍結100萬元案第四案 第一幕向下通訊費預算凍結100萬元案第五案 第二幕向下基本行政工作維持預算凍結100萬元案第六案 第三幕向下租位使領單位基本行政工作維持預算凍結50萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2062.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2069.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第七案 第三目向下 業務費預算凍結兩百萬元案 第八案第三目向下 駐外河岸單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2069.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2095.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
基本行政工作維持預算凍結13萬元案第九案 第四目向下學術交流活動有關亞西及非洲式預算凍結80萬元案第十案 第四目向下學術交流活動有關北美式預算凍結200萬元案第十一案 第四目向下協助各種國際交流活動有關北美式預算凍結100萬元案第十二案 第四目向下經貿交流活動有關亞東太平洋式預算凍結100萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2096.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2122.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第十三案 第五目向下 駐外技術服務預算凍結十萬元案第十四案 第五目向下 對國際之關懷救助及重建預算凍結一百萬元案第十五案 第六目 第一屆營建工程預算凍結一百萬元案第十六案 民事事務局第二目向下 印製申請證件證照表件及須知預算凍結二十萬元案第十七案 第四目向下一般數非預算凍結一百萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2123.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2127.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第十八案外交及國際事務學院第二幕外交領事人員講習預算凍結10%案 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2130.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2152.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第十九案 外交及國際事務學院第二幕第一節向下 業務費預算凍結15萬元案第二十案 第四幕向下 對外資捐助有關北美式預算凍結10%案第二十一案 第四幕向下 學術交流活動有關亞東太平洋式預算凍結200萬元案第二十二案 第四幕向下 旁邊接待中業務費預算凍結200萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2155.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2164.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
討論事項處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議外交部主管預算凍結案等24案第一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2165.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2189.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第二幕向下基本行政工作維持中至業務一般事務費預算凍結三百萬元專案報告案第二案第四幕國際會議與交流向下協助各種國際交流活動預算凍結百分之二十專案報告案第三案第二幕向下業務費預算凍結一百萬元案第四案業務費預算凍結百分之五十案第五案 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2189.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2200.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第一幕向下 水電費預算凍結一百萬元案第六案 第一幕向下一般事務費預算凍結一百五十萬元案第七案 第一幕向下 水電費預算凍結五十萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2202.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2228.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
第八案第一幕向下一班事務費預算凍結兩百萬元案第九案第一幕向下桃園國際機場接待室基本行政工作維持預算凍結兩百萬元案第十案第二幕向下一班事務費預算凍結兩百萬元案第十一案第三幕向下業務費預算凍結五百萬元案第十二案第三幕向下業務費預算凍結一百萬元案第十三案第三幕向下教育訓練費預算凍結五十萬元案第十四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2229.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2251.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第三目向下一般事務費預算凍結兩百萬元案第十五案第三目向下車輛及辦公器具養物費預算凍結一百萬元案第十六案第四目向下一般事務費預算凍結兩百萬元案第十七案第四目向下學術交流活動有關亞東太平洋是預算凍結一百萬元案第十八案第四目向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2251.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2279.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
學術交流活動有關亞西及非洲市預算凍結100萬元案第19案第4目向下協助各種國際交流活動有關亞西及非洲市預算凍結200萬元案第20案第4目向下協助各種國際交流活動有關北美市預算凍結200萬元案第21案第4目向下第4目向下經貿交流活動國際合作及經濟事務室預算凍結300萬元案第22案第4目向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2280.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2283.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
其他協助各項國際交流活動預算凍結200萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2285.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2306.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第23案第4目向下其他協助各項國際交流活動補助台灣民主基金會預算凍結100萬元案第24案第4目向下其他協助各項國際交流活動亞東太平洋斯預算凍結200萬元案第25案第4目向下其他協助各項國際交流活動北美斯預算凍結300萬元案第26案第5目向下違半費預算凍結50萬元案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2316.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2341.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
報告四項二處理應會交付一四年度中央政府總預算決議外交部主管預算凍結案提出書面報告後使得凍失等二十二案現書面報告已送交本會請問各委員會各委員對於預算解凍有沒有有無異議沒有那我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2343.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2349.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
主席 各位委員 各位先進 各位女士 各位先生 大家早 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2372.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2385 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
承蒙大院外交及國防委員會安排本部主管114年度公開預算凍結項目進行解凍今日列入議程既有報告四項二十二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2386.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2404.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
兩千一百四十九萬三千元以及討論事項二十六案計四十億四千兩百七十萬五千元該等報告均已送交大院這一部分也納入了大院議案關係文書敬請各位委員參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2406.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2431.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
為持續推動各項重要外交事務敬請各位委員一本長期以來對外交工作的關注與支持對本部蓄意督促與鼓勵並同意解除上述各項預算凍結案以利本部業務之順利推動那以下接續由本部亞西籍非洲師陳永博副司長就阿拉伯在台商務協會相關爭議及後續處置案 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2435.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2447.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
以及條約法律師許博毅副司長就在台外籍人士司法相驗案件處理機制進行專案報告向各位委員做具體說明以上謝謝那請副司長專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2462.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2481.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
主席 各位委員 各位先生 各位女士 大家早安外交部亞非斯主要就阿拉伯在台商務協會ACCT的相關爭議及後續處理要做一個專案報告分數如下第一 外交部在111年8月接獲沙烏地阿拉伯約旦及阿曼三國駐台機構反映ACCT冒用官方身份及核發認證文件後 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2482.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2499.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
有持續積極與各該駐台機構聯繫並提供協助該協會是依據我國《人民團體法》向內政部申請許可設立本案與內政部及法務部調查局密切聯繫與協調ACT冒用官方身份及核發生意文件認證事情已在1、2年11月處理完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2500.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2522.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第二,有關AACD在1、2年9月對三駐台機構提起損害賠償及妨礙名譽的民刑事告訴,本部於職權範圍內與法務部積極協助確認其等所享有的豁免範圍,並進行後續協助及相關處理。本案已經進入司法程序,基於司法獨立,偵辦的案件本部無法提供進一步協助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2523.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2545.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
各國駐台機構所享有的特權豁免不盡相同,係基於雙邊對等及互惠原則相互授予。目前台沙間享有完整的特權豁免待遇,我們則持續努力提升與約旦及阿曼間的特權豁免。由於在ACCT案辦理過程之中,外交部疊次促請該兩駐台機構轉呈其政府禁訴辦理,目前尚待對方政府回應。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2546.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2566.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第三外交部獲悉三駐台代表受到騷擾的事情除第一時間表達關切及了解外並洽起內政部警政署加強對該等機構及代表的安全維護並協助三駐台代表將相關證據提供給檢調單位偵辦本部也持續與我政府相關機關及三駐台機構保持密切的聯繫第四 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2568.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2591.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
本部於14年1月再度致函內政部,針對相關爭議,請內政部基於主管機關職責檢視ACCD相關行為是否違反法令、章程或妨礙公益的情勢。另函請司法院、台灣高層法院、法務部及內政部說明其處理民刑事及行政案件涉外國駐台機構及人員時,應先向外交部確認其特權豁免,以免引發爭端。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2593.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2607.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
5.本部與內政部在14年2月再就本案相關爭議及後續處理方式進行協調,之後也在致函SCT,針對該會的名稱及相關資訊,恐有誤導公眾之語等節,提供行政補導並令其限期改善。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2608.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2620.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
並令韓警政署再次強調,針對辦理外國駐台機構及人員所設的民情事案件時,應該優先向外交部確認他們所享有的特權或免範圍,並依據本部的建議,已經建立了相關熱線機制以及加強安全防護。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2624.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2639.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
內政部檢證署在114年4月的時候致函本部提及ACCT已在113年1月31日停止租賃辦公室另查ACCT官方網站以及Facebook、LinkedIn等社群媒體網頁資訊並沒有見到提供文件認證、驗證等服務資訊結語 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2643.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2658.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
本案相關應處本部均應法規及職權紀議辦理,並與相關機關保持密切聯繫並積極的溝通、協調,未有消極、延宕等情。相關爭議若以辦結或改善,敬請委員繼續給予指導與支持。以上報告。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2672.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2674.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
主席各位委員先進下請就位 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2676.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2703.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主席各位委員先進以下緊究我國對於在台外籍人士司法相應案件處理機制的執行現況以及強化與外國警政合作司法護署的策進作為提出報告第一我國處理在台外籍人士司法相應案件是由檢警直接通報該外籍人士所屬國家駐台機構並透過其駐台機構聯繫死者家屬藉以爭取時效並踐行委以納領事關係公約的相關通報義務並未透過本部或法務部轉資駐台機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2705.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2733.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
苗栗地檢署偵辦112年7月發生的太極移工遭車輛撞擊死亡案件其新聞稿也說明該案太極移工家屬於第一時間已知悉並委託在台仲介處理死者後續上葬事宜並向泰國貿易經濟辦事處申請死者死亡證明本案基於人道及時效考量以及尊重檢警偵辦刑事個案權責使外籍人士家屬最快獲得必要之協助以確保被害人家屬的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2735.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2757.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
再者,以東南亞國家為例,我國已與菲律賓、印尼、越南、新加坡及泰國分別簽署《刑事司法互助協定》、《防制人口犯罪協定》以及《共同打擊犯罪協定》等,並在越南、菲律賓、馬來西亞、印尼、泰國及緬甸等地派駐法務或警務秘書,推動建立雙邊警政、犯罪偵防、情資分享以及調查業務聯繫等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2759.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2770.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
本部將持續與相關部會合作宣達處理涉及外籍人士案件流程並推動與各國洽簽警政司法互助協定擴大司法交流與合作聯絡確保雙邊人民權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2774.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2796.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
建議本部預算國際會與交流有關於其他協助各項國際交流活動的經費主要是編列一般事務費及國外旅費均為推動業務所需倘若凍結相關預算恐將影響我國與友好國家打擊犯罪及犯罪增防的合作成效敬請大院同意解除本案預算凍結案以利業務推漲以上報告謝謝各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2801.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2819.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
現在開始詢答本會委員私家2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘10點半發言登記截止如有臨時提案請於在10點半以前提出11點左右處理現在請陳俊宜委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2833.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2836.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們有請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2842.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2866.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
部長早委員長部長對於推動各項的這個國際交流相關的活動從外交部的解凍報告來看台韓同屬這個印太民族的陣營那在雙邊的實質關係還算穩健那雙方持續的推動各項領域的這個合作交流在這個南韓6月3號進行總統補選國會的最大黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2871.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2883.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這個共同民主黨總統候選人李在民目前民調是大幅領先其他的候選人那他曾經有一個論述他說台海是中國和台灣的一個內政問題與韓國無關 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2887.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2912.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
如果李在民他順利當選韓國的外交政策可能會有所轉變那我想請教部長就是我們如何來觀察韓國大選的一個動態以及主要候選人在外交政策上的一個走向那這個大選的結果是否會對於區域穩定造成某種程度的一個影響是 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2914.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2935.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們外交部密切注意韓國的總統的大選因為當然國家領導人會影響一個外交政策的走向不過地緣政治也有它比較長期穩定的結構所以我們在觀察的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2938.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2950.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
競選前競選中跟競選之後的說法跟他的政策走向這之間我們也看到一些調整那麼我想任何執政的都要 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2952.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2970.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
承擔這個外交政策的後果所以這一點我們對於韓國大選可能的選舉結果密切關注那不同的情形我們會相對的有因應那最主要也是就是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2971.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2990.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
印太第一島鏈,我想不管從日本、台灣、菲律賓或者是包括韓國,這都是密切相關的所以朝鮮半島跟台海之間的情勢互相連動所以我想美國的印太司令部也是基於這個樣子在進行很多的溝通、協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2992.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2996.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那台灣也是這裡面第一島鏈可以說是防止威權擴張我們是站在第一線韓國也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3002.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3027.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
好 謝謝部長那韓國作為我們台灣在各領域上往來算是算平凡的一個國家之一那假使真的向中國靠攏加上中共持續對台灣的這個主權地位和國際參與的這個空間來施壓那台韓之間的交流發展會不會受到什麼樣的阻礙我們要如何來深化跟韓國之間的實質關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3029.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3039.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
台韓之間除了地緣政治的關係很密切以外在經貿上的整合跟分工也日益的加強其實韓國也因為過去跟中國簽了自由貿易協定 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3047.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3060.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那造成對他們產業很大的衝擊是負面的那反而台灣現在就是說在全球佈局裡面相對來講就沒有那麼依賴中國的市場那但是在半導體供應鏈我們從競爭到 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3064.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3081.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
合作的關係都有不過面對美國的關稅政策台韓也是彼此是修其與共我們既競爭又合作的關係我想台韓之間除了這些地緣政治跟經貿以外在文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3081.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3093.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
的交流上特別是觀光旅遊還有這方面的關係是非常的密切所以我們還是把它當作理念相近的民主國家希望能夠大家協同一起來維護印太第一島鏈的和平穩定跟發展好 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3100.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3118.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
現在除了美國關稅各國都在談判進行當中我們也觀察到中日韓之間往來時隔五年今年三月在首爾再次召開第三次的中日韓經貿部長級的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3121.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3140.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那在會議中都宣示了三國之間要深化經貿的合作尤其要加快FTA的這個談判那部長您認為這種機會成形的機會高不高那台灣如何要透過這個外交的策略及早來因應可能的這個變局 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3142.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3169.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這涉及到美中抗衡就是紅色供應鏈跟民主供應鏈之間的競爭關係所以我想在現在這個以川普的這個不管關稅貿易或他的產業的政策我想這個要去進行所謂的日韓跟中國的三國的FTA的整合事實上是難度很高那另外一方面就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3170.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3189.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
怎麼樣去面對川普政府的關稅大家也在行情區域的整合這一點我們包括CPTPP我想台灣為什麼爭取要參加那中國也是不過這個問題當然除了經濟的層面還有它地緣政治上的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3189.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3192.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那總之我想對於中國利用川普的這個新政合縱連橫特別是在所謂周邊國家包括東協等等那這個也當然會連帶影響到我們我們也是密切的關注跟審慎的因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3207.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3222.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好那這部分我們也是請外交部持續的關注包括韓國的大選還有相關的經貿談判的一個發展以妥適來調整我們相關要因應的一個外交策略那是 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3223.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3250.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
主席我可不可以再借一個一分鐘左右那我想再請教部長就是針對菲律賓放寬官員來台的這個交流的限制那主要對於這個經貿還有招商為目的可是這個台非之間的觀光旅遊或是人員互訪甚至是安全防衛議題上都有相當的一個密切關係那如同部長日前曾表示過新的規範將有助於我國在 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3251.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3268.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
總和外交下持續深化台非實質的關係那在這個總統府他們菲律賓總統府公布的新的備忘錄內台灣應該如何加強和菲律賓的各項之間的合作往來互動官員撐擊我們是不是已經有提高的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3269.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3298.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
是我們歡迎菲律賓政府鬆綁那就是放寬了這個兩國之間的往來的限制那這個很明顯的因為最近是供應在重組很多的台商從中國甚至從東南亞其他國家那是不是移到菲律賓這個是他們希望爭取台商去投資那地緣政治上我們都面對中國的威脅然後跟美國也都有合作的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3299.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3323.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
可是怎麼樣加強總和外交當中除了價值外交同盟外交還有經濟外交所以我們希望推動台非經濟走廊來加強台非之間經濟的整合尤其是呂宋島那美日非之間也有一個呂宋經濟走廊的計畫那我們希望加上台非之間串聯那這個之間不管是投資貿易或者是一些科技還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3325.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3352.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
各方面的合作這個我們台北之間已經有展開諮商那也可以預期啦我們也期待除了這個有關於免簽這個也能夠他們能夠給與台灣免簽啦來促進兩國的交流以外避免雙重剋稅還有整個投資保障的這些制度能夠更完善畢竟台商去投資我們政府也是要確保他們的權益受到保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3355.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3382.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
好謝謝部長因為我們現在台飛每年往來的這個遊客旅客大概是超過46萬人那剛剛陳儒部長所說的我們對於免簽的部分應該是要更加的需求希望能夠透過外交部來跟菲律賓這邊協商看能不能儘早完成這個免簽的部分是這位列入優先協商的項目也樂觀的期待好謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3385.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3401.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
謝謝陳俊宇的質詢接下來由沈伯陽召委上台質詢謝謝主席有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3410.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3425.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
部長好委員長今天是解凍但是因為剛好這幾天有一件時事就是說芬蘭我們有新的人事的新聞那是不是可以請部長先稍微跟國人做一個簡單的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3427.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3443.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
有關於外界關切林昶佐先生的人事案現在在辦理中因為大使的派任是由總統來決定總統府來公告所以這個作業程序在進行當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3445.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3462.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
因為這個我相信這個今天可能會有很多的問題都是這方面那就是這個但是因為這次解凍案所以我最主要還是針對解凍的事項來問一下那因為這一次有這一個討論事項第四案就是說關於這一個業務費凍結50%然後呢到這個執行30%才可以申請解凍我認為這個應該是蠻重要的一個因為畢竟這個影響到外管的經營 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3470.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3490.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
然後再來就是他是要還要經過院會所以呢我們是希望這個可以今天通過委員會那裡面有幾個細項我想要來問一下就是說第一個當然就是這個在上次因為上次部長有事但上次我問過這一個就是我們索羅門的議員他遭到施壓他退出IPAC這樣的一個事情那上次我是著重在說他報導的這個報紙因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3492.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3513.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
在這個整體作戰裡面這個報導的報紙其實也是中國投資的一個報紙但是相對於像這樣的一個情形就是議員遭受到施壓這是第一個第二個就是在這個中拉論壇我們的邦交國的出席其實對台灣也可能會有一定程度的影響那這個當然在外管的這個業務上面都變得蠻重要的是不是可以請部長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3515.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3539.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
有關於這兩個案子我想我們群島的因為不信任投票後來又撤回引起他們內閣的一些小幅的改組那有一些入閣的人士過去有參加IPAC那有這個方面那當然我們對於他放棄這個擔任這些共同主席相關的角色我們是當然表示遺憾那也了解這個中國的施壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3544.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3562.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
方面我們會持續的努力來跟友好的國會議員跟政黨來保持聯繫然後也能夠促請未來跟台灣的關係能夠有 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3565.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3572.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
一些交流合作至於說中拉論壇我們外交部都有密切掌握所謂兩個友邦有代表前往因為它是中國跟拉共體之間的組織對組織的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3582.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3598.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那這海地的方面因為它現在進行這一個可以說是正在處於臨時正譜的階段所以不會做出什麼決定那事前事後也都有跟我們溝通我們當然勸阻不過因為基於他們國家的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3598.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3613.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
所以我覺得在這次的掌握上都是能夠充分掌握至於說這個聖路西他不是由外交部長是其他政黨人士他們也有所說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3614.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3629.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那這個就是說呢我認為啦就是說這個當然因為中方故意在這邊又在講什麼一個中國原則啦什麼等等之類的這個當然會有一些影響但我在想的事情就是說因為其實520將至啦那在520呢中國其實動作一定會很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3630.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3648.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
某大部分其實都是跟軍事有關我們最近也看到這個海巡相關的騷擾但是中國同樣的在520應該在外交上也會有所動作所以在這個時候它不一定是當然是除了這個接觸我們的邦交國之外它也有可能藉由這樣的一個新聞去炒作輿論然後又要講說什麼這個台灣這個外交部可能這個對外有所有對外不利 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3654.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3674.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這個沒有好好照顧我們的邦交國等等之類的這樣的輿論可能也會傳出所以我覺得有可能在520之前外交部隊這個可能要做好準備是 我們很早就準備因為中共會在我們總統就職週年在外交上挖我們牆角是可預期包括在國際組織上壓縮我們的空間包括2758號這個決議那對這些我們也因為都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3681.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3699.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
事先的這個做好準備到目前為止都在我們掌握的情況之下希望沒有意外因為我覺得就是因為今天病情跟解凍是比較有關係所以我想說這個外交部對於520之前的一些所作所為可能對我們來講都是重要的一個監督範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3700.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3730.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
但裡面還有一個這我時間快到我有一個小地方就是之前我有在問這個NGO論壇那因為其實呢我那時候有提出一個某部分的凍結案到後來併案了那因為併案之後呢這個就沒有特別在這個解凍報告裡面來說明所以這邊可能想問一下部長就是說呢在接下來就是我們這幾年在舉辦類似的這種NGO論壇它的受眾還有它的這一個評估就是說我們今天要怎麼去評估說這個那個效益為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3731.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3758.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
因為我們現在有很多NGO其實在國外是幫我們講話它是我們很重要的這個總和外交的一環那但是就是說呢我們現在要怎麼去評估然後它的參與者的回饋如何這個接下來的這一個未來的規劃大概是什麼樣子是NGO外交是我們總和外交很重要的一部分那比如是今年的玉山論壇我們也經過一些NGO代表還有智庫的代表有倡議要成立NGO中心在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3761.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3783.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
做一個hub也能夠來協調促進更多的交流合作那當然今年很特別是因為川普政府對USAID的改組導致很多NGO運作困難我們也透過我們的管道跟我們的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3784.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3799.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
盡量的去協助能夠撐過這個危險的比較困難的時刻那NGO它的自主性很強議題範圍很廣這個也是代表民主社會才會有的所以我們在這方面會加強是因為相對於中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3800.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3829.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
它是一個集權國家它不允許這些公民社團或組織的一個自主的存在所以這裡面我們也希望說NGO的事務會能夠扮演更大的我們像總和外交就是各部會其實不同的議題因為他們的關切不一樣實際上是屬於各部會的業務只是都跟我們外交有關係所以我們會加強跟國內各部會的聯繫然後也會 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3830.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3846.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
幫忙或者是說促進國內NGO的對外的交流畢竟他們才是主體那透過NGO外交來推動這個價值外交對其實我就是我follow up一個就是剛剛部長提到我覺得一個蠻重要的一點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3847.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3861.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
因為NGO在這個補助上面在去年一直到今年其實都有遇到一定的困難我說在國際上所以我們都在民主基金會所以民主基金會一定程度的幫助其實對於我們要去能夠交到這些朋友無尼是重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3862.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3886.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我也用這個機會跟委員報告當然包括民主基金會是跨黨派其實也在提案希望其實明年的預算可以增加因為在這個時刻在全世界最需要台灣的時候我們如果能夠增加預算現在的這個董事長是韓國瑜院長也是立法院各黨派都有代表我們希望來強化民主基金會的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3887.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3915.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
對 因為像這個像我知道在東南亞可能有一些媒體它本來也是有一些NGO相關的資助但後來它也是因為這個樣子就是中國反而把手伸進來然後它想要去資助這些媒體也會有我剛剛講的像索羅門的那樣一個案件就是中國所資助的媒體在海外去散播這些訊息所以對我們來講就是說我們跟NGO之間的關係我們當然不能夠直接對媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3915.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3943.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
但我們跟NGO之間的關係很有很大的程度會影響到海外的這一個輿論戰那這個部分我認為是重要的那這個也拉回到我今天在最前面問的就是長佐的這一個人事案因為他長期以來其實跟NGO跟I-NGO的關係其實非常好他也擔任過這一個國際特色的分會長所以我覺得藉由這一個人事的任命案我會認為是不是也要藉由這一個節點去把更多的NGO跟I-NGO拉進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3944.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3947.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那這樣的話對我們來交朋友一定會有更好的一個幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3949.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3974.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
是 確實當然林委員他的背景除了音樂文化這方面的專長以外其實在人權的議題上面他也是這個國際特色組織台灣分會的會長也出席過各種國際的會議那我們希望當然總和外交是讓各方面都能夠走向世界另外我也跟委員報告其實以民主國家的經驗擔任過國會議員包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3977.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3996.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我想外交國安委會每一位立委其實都是具備擔任大使跟代表的條件我這講的是不分黨派因為國會議員他對國政很了解對行政部門監督所以大家當到外交的第一線的時候其實這個是民主的常態對 希望能夠好好發揮謝謝部長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4004.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4007.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
謝謝 接下來請黃人 黃昭偉上台詢問謝謝主席 有請部長請部長部長好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4025.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4045.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
剛剛言細,剛剛你所提的具有外交國防的委員但是今天有一個問題我想請教現在報紙裡面也登出來有關於林昶佐前任的立委要被分派到芬蘭 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4046.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4067.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
但今天我們有三個疑問第一個疑問就是臨場所過去裡面散兵兵役的問題那散兵兵役的問題他沒有去做在該做的這些當兵的事務第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4069.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4092.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
他沒有具備外交的經驗沒有具備外交的經驗所以你說依你現在我們外交的困境應該要有專業有外交的這一些長才來任派可是國人現在對於派任臨場所到芬蘭 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4093.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4101.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
作為芬蘭的代表我想這個都有很多的疑問跟問號所以我想請教部長你如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4104.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4125.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
來選擇沒有外交背景包含散兵兵役的問題那今天又代表了芬蘭代表我們中華民國外交部駐派到芬蘭像這樣的一個問號包含他的本身的問題大家都產生一個質疑對他沒有信心那部長 你看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4127.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4141.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
因為芬蘭其實它除了它是重金屬音樂的重鎮以外這不講啦因為這個是比較單一的面向我覺得北歐的五國對人權都非常的重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4143.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4163.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那我想以我們如果純粹除了國會議員的背景之外像國際特赦組織這些交流這些項目都是也是很重要啦那最重要我們是要區域聯防我們希望未來其實我們的外交不是單獨的雙邊關係甚至過雙邊去進行多邊關係比如說在帝國可能有美國大使館日本大使館 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4164.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4188.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們橫向的聯繫啊特別是當然這個是外交部的本來事務裡面要做一個對接包含對話現在我是講的是林昶卓本身的疑問題有產生了很多的疑問那這也是國人的關切對外交部到底是不是任派然後呢我們本來對外交部期待的很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4189.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4206.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
但是你任派的林昶佐本身的兵役散兵的問題包含他沒有任何外交的長才那如何對我們駐派到芬蘭能不能信任而且本身問題就已經存在了所以部長針對這個問題來回答我是 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4208.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4221.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
有關您提到拼議的問題他本人應該會做回答也有所說明啦我就不在這裡待會來回答那就是如果以美國啦或者是說民主國家來講大使啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4223.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4243.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
其他尤其是基於外交那由國會議員去擔任是非常多我想您看到應該是美國這個川普政府就是一個例子那不只是他啦其他我想他們之前不管住日住中或是住在各國歐洲都有這個情形所以這個條件是符合的個人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4248.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4262.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
這是問題或者是需要去回應的我想由當事人來說你們做一個思考能不能勝任你們再做一個最後的思考因為它本身就是有問題的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4266.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4282.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
駐派未來能不能勝任這是一個問題那另外就是現在南非代表處我一直從去年都關切在這個事上從去年10月30號就就說要我們代表處要遷移之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4283.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4303.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
期限在今年的31號3月31號到了今年的4月份南非政府雖然還沒有具體的回應我方的協商的訴求但也沒有採取具體的行動但本席認為不放心在上個月21號執行部長的時候特別強調炸彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4306.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4332.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
為這個奶味拆除提起外交部要特別注意到發展沒想到這個南非的外交部及官網將我國的駐南非代表處降級為辦事處外突然又更改為住處資訊所以這樣的一個降級又降級對我國來講的邦交的精神都沒有把我們台灣的外交精神存在了 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4333.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4356.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那像這樣的你們在當時提醒你們的時候要危機處理而且不斷要你們要去雙邊溝通所以你說有溝通了但是後面後面問題來了所以把我們的外交的這一些辦事處變成了一個降級到我們剛剛我所談的就是資訊處 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4359.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4371.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這樣的一個立場對我們來講的話外交的困境又添上了一個課題部長你回答這個問題我感謝委員不斷的提醒確實我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4374.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4397.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
並還沒有完全拆彈 那他也會有可能新的動作不過我們的立場很清楚 臺灣跟南非的官司是建立在我們雙邊的協議那個才有效率 至於說片面的行動我們不已接受 也持續在交涉中那因為為什麼會有這樣子的小動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4398.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4409.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
大家也可以理解中國的壓力那他們也是想要可能要做一些怎麼樣的處理所以片面的去不管改名啦或者是把一些資訊喔把它隱含這個就是隱匿掉了這個其實是很像 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4417.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4436.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
比較是不成熟的做法那不只是說國際關切啦包括他們自己南非內部國會議員甚至他們自己執政聯盟裡面的政黨都不斷的表達就是反對這種片面行為因為如果南非是一個民主國家如果他遵守法律的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4437.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4455.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
他不應該片面這個形 可是為什麼這個樣子我們當然了解背後的政治壓力跟利害可能介入其間所以我們是很謹慎的就是在處理這個事情我們不會認為說這個危機已經過了他是壓力還是持續在尤其今年南非要召開G20他們是主辦國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4460.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4462.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
所以部長主席再給我一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4472.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4494.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
在外交指令上,當我國不認同對方行為的時候以嚴重的程度不同,分別為表達關切、遺憾、反對和抗議但本席只看到部長受訪的時候表達一些非正式的意見並沒有看到外交部向南非表達官方的外交態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4495.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4516.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以連這個外交部的官網中也沒有對本事件的聲明或回應所以部長你有沒有去真正來表達我們非常的關切遺憾甚至表達強烈的反對有 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4517.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4543.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我們也透過我們駐南非代表處表達關切遺憾反對還有包括抗議那也要求要啟動雙邊的談判那他們也要求我們給我們的回應我們也針對這個內容啊希望進行交涉可是他現在就先迴避跟我們直接面對面這有點在拖啦是他們而不是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4544.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4558.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我希望我們剛剛所講的一定要強烈的表達這是你們外交部的指令裡面強烈的表達我們不願意接受他們這樣子幫我們降級好不好是 謝謝我們來加強 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請陳冠廷委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4584.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4613.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
你好我們請部長部長好委員長部長總和外交是基本上是部長這一次的救人來的使命那我認為總和外交是第一步因為過去我們外交部不管是我過去在國安會任職還是在其他時間的話發表到外交部他是屬於叫輔助的性質 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4614.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4634.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
也都說他在做純粹的外交可是自從部長提到總和外交之後我發覺到這剛好符合台灣的這個因應國際情勢的一個最好的狀況包含經貿以及剛才省委員質詢的時候你也提到的說怎麼樣把各個不同的部會我們能夠把它彙整並且協助那在這個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4635.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4658.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我也要提醒就是說如果總和外交如果缺乏統籌或者是指揮系統那可能就沒有辦法形成協同效應那過去外交部可能大部分的時間當然是做輔助的那有各個不同的師各個不同的組織各個不同的科但是我想請教部長部長應該知道日本他在過去也有在戰後還有推展的外務一元化嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4661.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4678.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
部長知道他當然是經過他過去他在戰前包含他們的軍部經濟部門還有其他的部會他自己實質對外行動所以導致他的外交的戰略上面是沒有統整的那這個部分我在馬英九時代有看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4679.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4693.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
就是說包含它的農業部門外交部門它們沒有在協同就是說整個國家的方針農業在做自己的農業跟中國大量購買這個鳳梨導致我們中南部的產工全部都失衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4695.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4721.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那個時代外交部基本上沒有在做事情為什麼 因為他們在外交修兵嘛我想大家還記得那個年代那現在不一樣了現在台灣的這個國際地位增高所以我們外交上面的能力當然是更加的不一樣所以我想部長請教一下目前我國對外的各個不同的這個談判議題戰略溝通是由外交部統籌還是由 比方說如果是貿易的話由經濟啊什麼這些統籌 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4722.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4751.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
其實依照我們憲政體制總統他主持國家大政方針外交是總統的權但是因為部會也都會跟外交有關當然比如說行政院也有政委負責經貿談判這個部分可是我們為什麼要提總和外交就是說外交要為我們各個部會的業務服務以外各個部會的業務也要為外交來服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4752.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4767.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
因為其實外國看台灣是看整體他不會去切割你的部會都是找外管所以我們希望一方面強化就是說政府內部的整合從總統府跟行政院比如說現在行政院有設經濟外交工作小組那就是跨部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4768.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4792.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
這樣子在這裡做溝通協調那我們也希望落實館長制在第一線打仗是一個團隊不是各自為政各個部會負責的只是我們台灣的他們的長官他必須整合成一個可以打仗的這個團隊在各個館處那至於怎麼去我們把業務的重點目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4794.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4816.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
設定出來其實經過這一整年我們已經很清楚我們台灣外交的重點是哪一些業務所以我們不是說只是為了整合而整合整合是為了要達到我們國家生存與發展的目標而且未來的館長或大使也不一定是所謂的只有念外交科系你可能了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4818.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4838.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
經貿、文化或是現在新興科技在外交上很重要所以未來的我們外交部的人才培訓也都是跨領域除了自己職業外交官的這些比較屬於protocol比較屬於正式的外交專業以外其他領域他也要具備因為你要跟人家交涉的時候人家關心的是那些領域的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4840.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4857.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
謝謝部長那美國包含國務卿他出去代表的是整個國家整體經濟貿易環保科技整體而言他是在統括這一切那他說的每一句話他是有他的重量是有他的戰略意義的那我看到我們外交部有一些他對外援助的報告等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4858.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4885.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那我是認為說為了避免我相信你也知道最近有一些不同的一些地方政府他可能會去第三地像是香港什麼的那在那邊簽署什麼事情那有人說這是兩岸的那有可能他在第四個國家甚至是有違我國的外交戰略的所以我想一元化的意思就是說讓外交部做一個戰略性的統國統整也就是說各個部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4886.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4911.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
包含我們剛剛講從科技部農業部什麼我們的外交人員他必須要掌握這些議題必須要有一些我甚至是建議這個專責的這個駐點制度那過去在這個日本的外交部的官員他們甚至是派駐到後生勞動省非常長的一段時間那一段時間他輪調完之後再回到外務省他增加他對外這個他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4913.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4931.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
衛生 公共衛生包含製藥等等為什麼這跟外交有關啊這跟彈砲有關嘛 談判有關所以我認為我們是可以檢討一下這是一個很大的議題這個是一個很大的議題所以我不會在這一次諮詢完就結束因為這同時又回到我們之前在講的安全合格你如果跟人家出去但是你卻沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4932.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4949.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
國防的相關的核可那但是你卻得到這麼多的外交資訊那這些資訊如果你同時你就同時具備外交人員跟國防人員的資訊都在你身上那你有沒有足夠的授權知道這些事情所以我們現在國家要走向一人化一體化的意思就是不可以說地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4950.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4969.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
在做一些外交政策或在簽訂一些其實不可以啦其實不管再怎麼樣都不可以簽訂或者是主導一些政策的時候是跟國家的大政方針是不一樣的所以我也鼓勵外交部在整體的國家戰略上面定期出白皮書我看到你們有出一些對外援助等等但是國家的外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4970.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4995.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
它的方向性當你定調之後其他的農業部門才不會模稜兩可而且外交也是必須要服務於我們的農業服務於我們的經濟談判這樣才不會有矛盾的狀況也才不會有地牌委員去質詢的時候外交部是講這樣子農業部是講另外一件事情經濟談判辦公室又講另外一件事情所以這個統整很重要就是基調要一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4996.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5011.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
如果沒有基調一致我還很記得就是2016 2017年的時候那時候好像在這一個北非吧我們有開那個COP 忘記是多少了那也是環境變遷大會各個部會全部在各自的房間裡面開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5013.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5028.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我就說對 早上大家成會由外交部統整可能講一些鼓勵的話之後全面四散嘛那我覺得這很可惜我覺得那一次是有很多不同的部門從環保 從外交 從國安會全部都有派人 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5029.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5055.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
但是他們沒有一致性嘛就是大家還是分散性的所以我覺得部長講的這個總和外交就是會把總體戰力開始那我覺得這是一個很重要的開始所以我覺得部長不能夠把自己當部長而已他把自己當成是類似美國的這個國務卿他雖然他是等於是實質上的他雖然是外交部長但是他不僅僅只是外交部長他的順位什麼在美國都是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5056.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5076.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我很認同委員的就是說提的總和外交的方向我們會朝這個方向來辦理那我們也在編寫總和外交的報告另外我們也進行雙部長會議先從我們跟其他部會的合作項目那另外就是也是希望加強您講的在人事交流所以我們最近比如國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5077.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5097.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
就有一位很資深的那很專業的在科技外交上我們也是把他聘到就是商請啊能夠到外交部那他以前也駐外國類似這種人才的交流也是一個重點最後一點就是說那個外交部在集合會議的時候不可以只尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5098.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5117.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們尊重經貿辦公室我們尊重國防部必須要有外交上面你們自己的sense的發言來說可能這個地方不太對的話那要講話而不是只是單純形式上的參與形式上的參與我們常看到當你沒有發言沒有對話就不信所以最後就總和外交裡面很重要就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5118.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5138.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
戰略上要一致所以總統在歐戰結束他有參加還有我們自己在這個官邸那邊有正式的會館對 會館過去的那再來就是全部的中戰在日本不管是在長崎廣島都有紀念活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5139.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5163.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那長期上面看起來是對我們沒有目前沒有相對的進展那我還是希望說在廣島上面做相應的努力因為它是一整套我們對於我們自己的看法就是台灣跟已經民主的國家站在一起那就算過去不民主的國家都可以轉型成功那我們的外交政策戰略是怎麼樣這個再麻煩部長謝謝 趙偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5166.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5173.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好 謝謝委員謝謝陳冠廷的發言接下來由馬文晶委員上台質詢謝謝主席 麻煩請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5189.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5193.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
部長早今天前面幾位委員大家可能關注的議題大概也都有很多是相同的那我們也就剛剛召委有提到的南非的這個部分因為去年十月還有今年一月三月南非政府其實他都有動作首先是把我們的名稱等級還有我們把它調降了 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5218.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5238.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
從台灣代表處把它降級成貿易辦事處然後第二個是要求我們要遷離首都這個也有很多次的機會在這裡其實跟部長都曾經有過詢答那到現在其實他們變本加厲現在直接在南非的官網上面他就刪除我們代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5240.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5258.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
住處代表廖文哲的資訊現在僅剩下三個比較低階的助理的名稱另外第二個是台灣住處的郵件地址相關的資訊他直接就把它改到約翰尼斯堡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5259.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5270.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
所以就這個部分因為部長也一直提到說我們目前的住處其實運作是正常的可是我們也擔心因為過去有一些我們的邦交國或者我們有一些相關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5276.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5282.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
其實他有過一些往例第一就是接下來他可能被斷水斷電或者會驅逐代表甚至就沒收我們的館產那外交部是不是有更積極的作為因為他們已經逐步一直在這樣做剛剛部長也提到說他們現在好像是他們在拖可是他在拖的過程當中是他們有動作而我們看不到我們有任何的動作這個部長現在是怎麼樣的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5306.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5306.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5307.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5337.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
跟委員報告當然我們外交處境很困難我們就是實質上這個我們駐南非代表處是還正常在運作不過他不斷的有這一些不管片面的改名或者是說這個降級那我們也是不斷在交涉當中那因為今年是很特別我想今年這個南非要召開G20他跟中國的關係但同樣的跟美國的關係也是另外一個我們看到很緊張 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5338.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5358.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那南非的總統最近也去訪美那之前川普總統還有這個盧比奧這個國務卿啊也都對於南非甚至驅除他駐美國的這個大使那國內也一樣他的這個不管是說在野黨連執政聯盟裡面的人也反對那他要片面的行動如果他違反協議或違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5360.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5363.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這是有責任的所以為什麼他今天做這些動作看起來都好像在交代什麼那我們當然要審慎因應因為這隨時有可能會有一些行動您剛剛說的像美國他們有一些做法或者他們國內有一些做法那個倒是其次我們比較在乎的是我們的做法還有我們現在的處境因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5385.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5394.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
不管怎麼樣他已經做了而且我剛剛提到的狀況是不是有可能發生我們外交部要怎麼因應如果等到被斷水斷電代表被驅逐或我們所有的相關的人員被驅逐或者甚至我們的館產被沒收走到這一步的時候我們要怎麼辦這個部分是外交部應該要做的我們都做好應變計畫舉個例子好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5410.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5436.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
就是不管是他如果採取一些非法行為我們應該怎麼因應那包括實際上的但確保我們領悟人員的安全或是國人辦理這一些事務的一個這個權利那我們都有因應的對策也有相對等的反應我想先前也談過 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5438.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5461.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我們還是有一些可以就是反制他包括在經貿還有其他方面但是我們現在也不好先講啦因為他現在沒有實質上的給我們書面資料好不好因為現在顯然大概也提不出什麼樣具體的一個有效的應對的過程有一些策略必須要先準備好不能夠先講出來但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5463.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5466.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我們是有反制他的 我說從雙邊的貿易我們是貿易 我們對他來講是順差 我們是逆差嘛這裡面很多的項目我們可以轉移啊 購買或投資如果他這麼做 他都不在乎連美國要處置他 他也不在乎可見其實我們的處置方式就是非洲這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5488.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5502.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
成長機會法案所以對他這些都不在乎的情況之下我們可以有什麼樣的有效的具體做法現在這樣看起來是要沒有啦所以我們請部長隨便提供給我們書面資料那個不是升高因為我們一直被挨打我們已經被羞辱 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5510.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5513.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
這個如果我們台灣沒有一個做法都沒有做我們聽不到嚴正的抗議給我們書面資料因為目前還看不到嘛書面資料請匯合提供那另外最近因為有一個人事的安排就是林昶佐可能要派駐芬蘭去 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5529.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5533.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
去作為我們的大使那在這裡我想要請教以他的資歷其實剛剛部長也提到可能有很多人他大概都可以升任可是我想要請教的是現在派他到芬蘭是期待他可以做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5549.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5570.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我想在我們的總和外交下他是一方面價值外交嘛跟不管是人權文化這方面在北歐五國是特別重視那以他在NGO包括在這個國際特色組織還有他過去參加的國際會議是符合這些條件事實上每個國會議員包括委員您都足以升任我們的大使啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5571.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5576.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
姑且不論因為你說他過去在NGO的背景還有在立法委員任內的一個表現等等可是他現在大家可能會提到不管是他逃避兵役或者甚至像他沒有具備這樣的一個外交專業其實我覺得外交專業反而還是比較重要的剛剛部長提到的這些我想要請教的是我們目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5598.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5621.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
在我們職業外交官裡面我們找不到這樣的人才嗎可以具備這樣的條件然後又有經驗然後又是我們考試經過考試進步服務的這樣的外交人員難道沒有這樣的人才適合去那裡嗎跟委員報告我們是現在做區域聯防來推動總和外交我北歐五國我是有整體佈局的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5622.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5627.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
芬蘭丹麥瑞典挪威冰島等等所以這個整體的佈局是會交叉的火網那產生最大的綜合效應是基於這個區域就像中東歐部長您說到聯訪的這個部分因為我們一直在我剛剛詢問的也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5640.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5662.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
為什麼會是林昶佐來擔任代表我們的專業的外交官沒有辦法做到你說像要區域聯防因為現在包括像美國其實他自己都不想對北約有更大的付出所以我們現在是要參與聯防是我們要出錢的意思不是 我們區域聯防啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5663.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5665.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
因為從過去到現在你說這北歐五國我們用現實面來看過去包括像芬蘭他們在很多的代表其實都很直接講話都非常直白他們跟我們的關係就僅止於 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5682.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5691.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
可能在用餐大家在很多的場合上面可能就是這樣子的一個關係而已他們講得非常直接今天如果我們對於這個北歐五國有特別的安排顯然包括我們自己專業外交官都沒有辦法你們認為沒有辦法去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5702.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5708.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那可見我們是不是有什麼樣的承諾或者我們要做出什麼樣的一個付出或者我們要出什麼樣的錢才需要特殊的人去擔任這樣的職務今天在這裡我想部長是不是可以簡要的說明一下其實芬蘭在二五戰爭發生之後已經申請加入北約其實芬蘭的民防全社會防禦任性是跟台灣現在交流包括像海嵐的事件被破壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5732.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5759.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
這個都是台灣現在跟包括跟歐洲這一些北歐或者是波羅的海或者是英國他們是跟海洋國家的關係很緊密我們跟芬蘭也已經簽了航權就是今年二月所以未來也會直航是這樣的一個戰略要地牽動的北歐還有波羅的海甚至中東歐我們具有外交國防委員會專長的人到那邊去我是覺得是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5760.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5767.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
進一步來加成總和外交的效應對您剛剛一直提到說他是在外交國防的這樣子的一個背景可是我要再次提醒因為好像沒有辦法提出來說我們專業外交官為什麼做不到第一這個會打擊到我們職業外交官的士氣因為本來就有很多資歷足夠的這些資深的職業外交官其實他是可以派任的其實我們最重要的是用人為財還有能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5790.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5797.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
今天如果,我說的是職業外交官喔,今天人家是不一步一步地往上爬現在你已經把他排除這些專業的外交官第二個是這些駐外的單位,包括像瑞士、希臘、愛爾蘭等等其實我們有很多的外管,我們人力是不足的今天如果你用的是沒有經驗的這樣子的一個外交人員用特任的這樣的方式去派任 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5821.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5824.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
他要怎麼樣去領導這些專業的外交團隊他怎麼樣交出很好的外交成績我覺得這個都是存疑的所以在這裡我們還是希望我們在用人尤其現在面對所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5837.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5839.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
整個國際處境其實是比較凶險的狀況之下像歐盟現在其實他們也急著要跟中國大陸其實要有更密切的這些往來所以在這個部分我們還是希望我們不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5853.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5856.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
對我們專業外交官其實在這段時間其實很明顯的看得出來他們在升遷的上面其實都受到很嚴重的打壓如果都是派這些特任的像這些外交官其實我們為他們報區在這裡我們還是要提醒如果他可以特別為我們做什麼是不是會後也請外交部提供一個熟面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5877.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5883.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
因為這個案子還在作業中,如果總統府正式公告,因為委員官我也是很談人啦,心理說明啦就是你至少做一個比較嘛,就是說職業外交官做不到的,而他可以做得到,請給我們一個說法是在等正式公告之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5897.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5901.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
因為現在都是外面的報導因為已經都報導了那當然我作為一個政務官我也是比較能夠給你資訊沒關係因為總統大概他會不會公告他不會因為說我們提出這樣的一個比較或者說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5913.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5918.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
有所改變剛剛提到的海嵐其實海嵐在我們台灣周邊的海域跟北歐五國其實是不太一樣的我們現在面對大陸的不管漁船或者其他的鐵殼船或者其他的這些海嵐會受到攻擊或者破壞跟北歐五國是不可同日而語所以我們現在已經要改我們現在已經要漸漸不要用海嵐了所以我們跟這麼遠的國家需要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5942.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5949.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
在我現在的理解來看好像我們必須要付出更多的資源這是我的理解如果不會我們希望給我們一些好的一個說法跟一個條件好不好在作業中再跟委員報告 謝謝謝謝馬文卿的質詢接下來有林楚音上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5974.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5979.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
謝謝主席 主席有請林部長部長可以慢慢來喔 可以喝一口水沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5984.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5999.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好 部長早安委員好我想今天大家都非常的關注就是我的前同事林昶佐委員會不會成為林昶佐大使我想對於外交的派任那絕對是經過國家整體的考量跟發展我非常同意就是目前以台灣的狀況尤其是今天519 明天520中國一定會處心積慮的在外交場合 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6011.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6039.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
或者是外交的場域給予非常多的這個施壓或者是脅迫那麼第一線的外交同仁確實是非常辛苦的那我也感受到就是我們今天院內有許多的同仁針對長佐的這個所謂派任芬蘭這樣的一個過程給予了很多的指教首先我要先特別這個提出來的是我想這個外交的工作一定是因地制宜那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6041.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6067.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
雖然這個過程當中很多人會問說那特任到底有沒有其必要性本席就想要舉例就是我在東吳的時候的一位老師謝志偉 謝大使謝大使是我們德文系的教授 系主任那麼這些年來他在德國擔任大使部長您覺得他做得如何他的表現很好 有目共睹而且為外交注入了活力因為他非常有創意 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6068.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6075.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
好 那麼另外就是我們首位的音樂大使就是我們國台交的團長派駐了奧地利我們的這位劉學勇劉大使那麼目前您覺得他表現得如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6084.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6109.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
就是奧地利人很喜歡他因為他從文化甚至在街頭都會人家請他指揮那個樂團表演就是就從我們跟奧地利的關係來講真的突破了一些我們過去比較傳統就是只有比較正物啦他從文化切入事實上他們他轄區還包括蘇奧維尼克跟克派西亞那走訪的時候我們也看到這整個區域都動起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6111.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6138.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
本席特别要点出这两位啦当然我相信其他我们住在其他住在国的友邦的大使其实都是非常努力希望让台湾被看见那么目前对于常佐来说过去他在立法院除了是两届的立法委员然后资深的国防外交委员之外我相信因为闪灵乐团在欧洲尤其是本席其实特别到过芬兰 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6140.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6150.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
確實這個芬蘭對於閃靈樂團是非常了解的這個我相信就跟派任我們的這個首位音樂大使到奧地利一樣是有一曲同工之妙那麼剛剛也會特別問到就是說那麼給予 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6154.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6160.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我們從外交特考上來的外交官們到底有沒有機會來派任我們知道北歐五國當中其實是有兩個國家包括挪威跟冰島是我們沒有駐館的所以我們還有瑞典跟丹麥對不對那麼請問一下瑞典丹麥我們是專業的外交官系統上來的大使嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6177.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6202.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
是,瑞典斯古瑞森他是專業的職業外交官丹麥是我們之前駐美的副代表到那邊去擔任我們的代表,就升任愉快所以本席想要給部長一個解釋的機會因為剛剛您提到所謂的北歐五國七日聯防各司其職其實我覺得是非常重要的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6203.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6218.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
有一些當然我們講大使在外交工作上面需要有資深的外交的歷練但是有一些所謂的亮點或者是能夠跟地方做一些場域上的整合或者是能夠代表台灣讓台灣的價值被看到那是更為重要的那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6223.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6241.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
對於如果真的是由林昶佐來擔任芬蘭大使的話那麼您期望整體在北歐的佈局或者是總統所預計的佈局會是什麼樣的方向跟想像其實北歐剛好五國這是總和外交可以在這邊來推動的很好的地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6242.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6260.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
一方面價值外交這些國家都是老牌的民主的成熟外交甚至有些還之前被蘇聯統治過所以他們的反控對台灣是很有善另外就是文化、人權這些價值面的外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6260.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6280.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
再來就是從安全上來講因為他們面對到俄烏戰爭之後都紛紛比如說以芬蘭申請加入北約這以前是不可想像因為他是比較中立性質的就是說這個威脅未來也會持續所以跟台灣他們很關心台灣面對中國威脅的經驗彼此的交流像這個海嵐其實後來發現就是中國的船用其他國籍然後在芬蘭 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6285.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6311.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
跟這個愛沙尼亞這他們是直接受到衝擊的因為這個北歐這個地方海南很多電信然後各種的需要的包括傳輸這些天然氣能源等等所以這個是安全的層面也是一種同盟外交再來就是其實是經濟外交上其實這些國家跟我們的經貿也很互補那未來的非紅供應鏈我想他們都必須採取都必須要這個選邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6313.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6341.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這個時候台灣就是飛鴻供應鏈裡面最具備可以我想我們是製造大國然後跟他們很多的品牌像設計所以在經貿上面透過我們希望比如說增加航線航權所以最近是芬蘭已經簽了那其他幾個國家也在洽談中我們可能會突破直接飛北歐以後國人去看極地的這個美景也不用再轉機我想這個也都是經貿外交裡面的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6341.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6351.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
好那我剛剛再補充一下其實林昶佐委員大家可能不太了解蔡前總統現在去哥本哈可能像那個民主峰會他都是參加都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6352.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6375.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
主壇人耶而且他還受拜登的邀請出席這個在華盛頓峰會這個亞洲國會的議員所以他的經驗包括IPEC委員就很清楚他是促成台灣參與還有包括這個很多交流活動更不用講他在國際特色組織擔任台灣分會長北歐的人權特色組織大家都知道包括台灣的民主化 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6376.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6395.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
也很多人受到他們幫助所以我是覺得我們就持平來看啦這些條件是都符合做一個大使那我是個人認為啦像在座啦不只在座啦外交國安委員會的每一個立法委員都有資格擔我們中華民國台灣駐外的大使跟代表這個是民主國家的常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6396.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6423.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
好 其實部長講到這裡我想面對現在台灣的外交的困境本席會特別問這個問題是因為我相信不論是從正常管道上來的資深優秀的外交同仁我們是予以肯定的尤其他們在第一線的打拼即使現在我們是以特任的方式來任命非從外交系統出來的外交官但是其實他們被派出去之後代表的都是我們的國家中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6425.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6432.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我相信大家的目標都是一致的那麼至於有一些委員特別去質疑說這個從外交系統上來就沒有機會嗎我倒是認為不用從單一的一個點去看這一個人因為我相信在這樣的過程當中都是有其國家上面的考量就像當時我們派 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6447.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6467.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
謝長廷前院長去當駐日大使因為我們派了一個院長等級的代表我們對這個邦交國或者是這個友邦的認同支持跟尊重那麼現在我們派一個在當地享譽盛名或者是說在音樂界上面或是在自由人權上面作為發聲的一個前國會議員我相信應該也是有同樣的用處 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6474.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6499.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
其實最近的任命很多職業外交官包括到希臘到愛爾蘭之前都是比較屬於政務任用甚至在印尼都改由職業外交官我們會視財視所因為他有比例限制我們也沒有多聘總統基於他整體外交考量的佈局我們就是支持然後全力來辦理 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6500.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6514.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
好 那麼我們也要給這個外交同仁加油因為明天520喔我相信這個中國在外交上面的打壓或打擊一定會層次不窮但是我相信我們的外交同仁都很有經驗也可以做得很好謝謝 辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6533.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6535.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
謝謝主席 那我們有請林佳龍 林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6544.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6572.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
這個部長好那麼呢今天大家都非常關注關於林昶佐這個前委員的人事任命案那您剛也鬆口了這個任命案正在辦理當中那您剛剛呢在其他委員的質詢當中提到了因為呢林昶佐委員他過去有參與過很多比方像是重金屬音樂是芬蘭很喜歡民眾他們很喜歡的一個文化所以出任芬蘭大使您覺得是有幫助的但對一般民眾來說必須坦白的講就是酬庸 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6574.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6601.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
87%的芬蘭民眾使用芬蘭語那請問一下林昶佐未來擔任大使的時候應該要如何跟芬蘭的政界還有民眾溝通各位報告芬蘭人幾乎都講英語都可以講啦那北歐的國家他們國際化請問我去過那邊的民眾他們講的還有官員講的都是芬蘭語除非你必須要跟他講英文而且林昶佐委員他的英文程度如何我也沒有把握 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6602.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6613.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那請問一下這樣子的一個語言是否未來是需要事務官協助仍然是需要我們外交體系的事務官協助他去跟芬蘭的政府要員去做溝通的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6615.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6634.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我們外交部會講芬蘭語的我可能要做個調查如果要這樣的標準那當然就是很嚴格我們如果是直接在芬蘭的所有的外交官網上的話就是剛剛馬文君委員講的如果你是說原本派人的網上生的話第一個他對於芬蘭相關的政治是理解的 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6634.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6663.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
第二個你不管是用英語或是芬蘭語來講的話呢他都是能夠雙管齊下的那今天林場所的這個人事案他未來勢必是需要有翻譯或者是由我們的事務官來擔任那為什麼不直接由事務官去擔任那這個是大家就覺得有所質疑的地方因為如果今天沒有外交的專業只是因為他過去有所表演就可以滿足所謂的外交啦就叫他多去表演多去唱歌就好啦那為什麼要擔任大使呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6664.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6680.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
其實我們在那邊擔任快六年的張秀珍代表即將內定回來接國傳司長他也不會講芬蘭語你看他可以促成台灣跟芬蘭那為什麼不讓類似的人繼續擔任為什麼不讓類似的人繼續擔任類似的職務而是用這種讓大家認為說酬庸的方法然後來去聘用一個曾經他只是在台灣擔任立法委員的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6692.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6720.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那我要講的是如果這個人他是非常認真工作的話那也未嘗不可可是部長您知道林長佐委員他在擔任228事件基金會董事的時候那2007年受邀擔任董事您剛剛說他的一個重點在於人權嘛那228的這個事件基金會那當然是一個重要的人權的委員會嘛那你知道在第六屆第二任期裡面基金會開的15次董事會議林長佐前委員他參加過幾次嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6722.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6744.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
這個細節我不瞭解一次 只有去過一次在您剛剛所說的這麼重要的一個人權相關的組織裡面開了15次的會議裡面只出了一次的出席出席率是6.7%引發了228事件的受難者家屬的批評質疑他的轉型正義的認真程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6745.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6773.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
所以如果他在台湾担任228董事的时候他出席率都只有6.7%那他到了这个芬兰你怎么有能力去确认他能够升任这个工作呢他在台湾都做不好了你觉得他到芬兰能够做得好这也是让我觉得很奇怪的是另外再来我要请教兵役的问题在芬兰的兵役里面呢请问如果今天有逃兵假病那是有没有相关法律后果的在芬兰 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6775.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6790.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
或者是說您對於芬蘭的兵役制度有沒有了解他們是不是有要求強制必須要當兵才能夠符合芬蘭的相關法律有有嘛所以他們有分成軍事服役最起碼要當五個月多以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6791.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6796.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那我們現在派去的這個臨場所這個什麼大使的完全沒有當過兵這種情況在芬蘭裡面那你要大家如何自處我們派一個閃兵的我們派一個沒有當兵的去到芬蘭這個國家那我們自己都站不住腳啦我們今天要去談說兩岸之間的風險要去談說可能今天的所謂的國防熱性要去談說今天所謂的相關的威脅那你說芬蘭要加入北約 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6819.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6825.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
但是結果我們派去的大使連兵都沒有做過連中華民國的兵都沒有做過這樣子的情況你覺得合適嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6828.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6855.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
這個部分會由他當事人來做說明當事人做說明 你們在抱怨他的時候那沒有想過這個問題嗎因為林昶佐委員沒有當兵這是大家都知道的事情林昶佐委員擔任228的董事沒有出席這也是大家都知道的事情我們先前沒有針對這個部分去做考量就會被大家認為是酬庸所以我希望部長您也可以特別出這一點這不是酬庸啦他說民眾大家的感受就是酬庸啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6857.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6869.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
你們有你們的任命你們有你們的任命的權利你們有你們任命的權利但是民眾也會民眾自己有自我的這個公平在心中另外我想要問的是有關於這個365天賴清德總統這個上任的總體檢那這個在最近就昨天把就公佈了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6878.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6882.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
Podcast的專訪那裡面這個賴清的總統講到關於兩岸之間的關係所以我們今天這是外交部可是兩岸跟外交之間現在也有非常密切的關聯性那賴清的總統他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6894.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6922.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
中國是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司如果你要併我的公司你要提條件啊不是台灣來提條件那我對於這樣的併購說我本人是沒有辦法接受的因為我覺得在任何情況之下第一個兩岸之間不是公司第二個也沒有所謂的併購不管對岸提了什麼樣的條件我們都不能去接受而且我們是反對被中共單方面的去併吞要支持中華民國的主權跟主體性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6922.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6942.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那另外當加拿大總理卡尼跟川普總統見面的時候大家知道川普有一度說他們要併吞這個加拿大那加拿大的總理說什麼呢他們說加拿大是非賣品永遠不賣所以我想要問一下賴清德總統他把這個中共跟中華民國形容成大小公司的這個併購說那甚至說大陸可以提條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6946.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6966.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這個話之後呢有沒有任何外管或智庫對於這樣子的說法對外交部有產生一些討論或是傳遞任何的訊息有沒有什麼要去做澄清的這是比喻啦我想不管是這個比喻合適嗎我意思是說不管主權或產權或人權都是不可以被併吞的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6966.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6971.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
當然啊 那為什麼要講說 講說併購說的人又不是我 是賴清德賴總統啊那我們是反對的啊 我們沒有認為台灣是中華人民共和國的一部分我們是反對的 但是提出說可以併我的公司要提條件這個是賴清德總統說 所以我要問的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6990.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6996.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
在這番言論出來之後國際上面有沒有任何的相關反應來詢問這句話到底是什麼意思這個應該去問中國啦對 我在問說來問因為這是賴總統講的話這不是習近平講的話所以我要問的是說在這番話出來以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7007.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7023.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
有沒有任何外管或是外部人員智庫人員來詢問為什麼賴清德總統會講出這一句話因為這讓我也感到非常意外因為他這樣的說法我個人是完全不能接受的你不能只看這一段你要看整個內容我有看全部了但是這一段話他確實就是這個比喻是否適當 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7026.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7034.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
台灣的主權屬於我們國民全體我們是民主國家產生的政權只有我們台灣人民可以決定我們自己的未來連提條件都不應該你就不應該講說大陸你可以來提條件這句話如果由我來講請問會得到多少的抨擊中國根本就不提條件所以這個就是有點用弓矢之盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7051.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7062.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以你覺得這樣的說法很好可以繼續講因為他就是說我們是他的根本不帶任何條件我們反對啊我們反對啊我們反對啊是所以說你要提條件啊我們當然反對被捅啊那哪有什麼公司大公司小公司的差別啊我沒有覺得說中國大陸是比較大的公司台灣是比較小的公司而且還可以併購還可以提條件我沒有這樣覺得啊不是大小就可以被併人或被併那可以提條件嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7081.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7096.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
大陸今天要跟台灣提條件可以提條件嗎我們是他的他連條件都不提他說你要提條件啊上面寫的清清楚楚的那大陸沒有提條件那是他的事情但是我們的總統提到說要不要提條件這個是我們的總統自己講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7103.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7124.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
所以當我們的總統自己講說大陸你可以提條件啊的時候對於中華民國包含我們的民眾來說是會有一些緊張的而且以我來說我是一個不能認同的所以我想要問的是所以最後我要問喔所以所有的外管跟智庫都沒有針對這一段話來對外交部或是說任何的相關單位提出詢問沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7126.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7132.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
因為中共連提條件都不要這就呈現這個問題他就是併吞台灣不擇手段啊我們反對這件事情嘛那為什麼要談說公司訂購的事情呢這個他們講是他們的事情可是我們的總統自己去談訂購說那這當然會引發大家的質疑跟困惑嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7146.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7156.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以我的意思是說要嘛外交部可以解釋可以澄清我給你們一個機會要嘛我要詢問的是有沒有人看到這個話之後覺得很奇怪來詢問為什麼賴清德總統在520的時候會講出這番話 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7163.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7189.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
賴總統的立場很清楚我每天都很清楚他不管是這個四個堅持或四個這個所謂和平的支柱並跟我說是第一次講並跟我說是第一次講對吧這是舉例啦對並跟我說的舉例是第一次舉對吧過去沒有舉過這個例子這是第一次我想正式的那個媒體的訪問嘛對啊第一次嘛所以我想說這個第一次那會不會有第二次第三次第四次如果您認為是一個很恰當的比喻的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7191.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7211.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
這是個比喻我們說這個比喻很好以後都可以經常的去做這個比喻那您認為接下來繼續用這樣子的一個比喻來類比兩岸之間的關係在國際上 在外交上來說是好還是壞現在凸顯中共就是不會跟我們提條件嘛他就是 我們是他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7211.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7238.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
就是這是前提啊一個中國的原則就是這個樣子嘛對我們剛剛都講說我們反對被武統嘛就是說在國際上喔和平解決爭議才是前提啦和平解決爭議才是前提那對方要提條件來的話我們也可以考慮我覺得我們不能考慮啊有什麼好考慮的中華民國就是我們不能退讓的底線沒有大公司跟小公司的差別也沒有訂購的可能性這是我的立場跟主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7239.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7258.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我想應該 還有國會這些原則我們都可以坐下來談在國際政治上那以色列跟巴勒斯坦都可以坐下來談那為什麼加拿大為什麼加拿大的總理他可以直接說我們是非賣品永遠不賣然後結果在台灣我們的總統講說我們可以互相來看併購啊你來提條件啊為什麼兩國差異這麼大台灣的主權屬於國民全體那我們是所以是不是非賣品 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7269.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7277.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
你覺得台灣中華民國是不是非賣品我不用這個字眼因為你到時候又講說要不要賣要不要賣對 是不是非賣品嘛這個同樣是被講說可能會被併購啊可能會被這個併吞啊等等的加拿大為什麼可以總理講得這麼清楚就是非賣品 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7288.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7310.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
而我們的總統還在講什麼併購不併購所以因為時間的關係我建議外交部回去要重新包含跟總統說明這一番話已經引起台灣很多輿論的討論那即使你在這裡澄清即使你說這個賴總統的這個外交政策還有兩岸政策一向非常的清楚但是我也必須講所謂的併購說是他第一次提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7311.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7336.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
如果你們覺得這種併購說的比喻非常合適的話那我來繼續提啊如果覺得不合適的話那請修正其實賴總統這個談話的要成立的前提就是台灣不是中華人民共和國的一部分台灣有辦法反抗如果我們是對方的一部分我們怎麼談我們沒有要用中華民國是中華人民共和國的一部分沒有 從來就沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7338.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7354.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
比较我想这个立场很清楚就台湾不是中国的一部分中华民国当然不是中华人民共和国的一部分啊他说是我们认为不是啊他想要引力同意但我们认为不是啊这跟并购有什么关系啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7354.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7360.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
他不是只有武力統一為什麼要講說要提條件為什麼要講說中共要提條件無論他提什麼樣的條件我們都要反對因為台灣是非賣品他提了什麼條件他沒有提條件所以不管今天中國大陸要提什麼條件我們站在中華民國的主權立場上我們都要反對的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7377.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7404.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這好像跟貴黨的立場有一點不一樣沒有 完全沒有 是你不了解我的立場沒有 是你不了解我的立場並沒有 我認為中華民國就是非賣品我認為中華民國就是非賣品沒錯 所以不應該講怎麼辦 並不並夠這樣子的一個比喻並不並夠的這樣的比喻 我認為是不恰當的因為中華民國是非賣品 謝謝好 中華 我要講不管台灣也好 中華民國也好都不是中華民國有一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7405.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7418.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我們一直說 我剛剛也從來沒有說是一部分中華民國絕對不是中華人民共和國的一部分 謝謝謝謝 習小新委員上台之心接下來有賴世寶委員上台之心謝謝主席 一級格先進有請外交部的林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7441.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7464.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
林副總你好你好這個讓你turn the gear剛才大家一直問你林昌佐等一下我再問好了是我先問你一下另外的題目好這個關於這個教宗前教宗方濟克的商禮以及現在新的教宗梁世世舊址請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7468.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7479.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
教廷跟中華民國有沒有邦交有有邦交那當然要爭取總統或者副總統參與啊為什麼都爭取不到不對怎麼這麼難 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7482.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7483.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
為什麼我們沒辦法爭取到我們的總統 副總統去 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7500.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7515.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我們當然是希望有這樣子的機會那這一次經過雙邊的這個溝通那認為由陳前副總統當然總統特使是比較好的安排怎麼比較好 外企特區最好啦誰會知道 如果不想消滅錢就可以啦有政治邦交國 哪裡有這個浪浪陳建能去的那不如你去就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7527.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7533.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
陳前副總統有他在國際上的地位不是啦而且他跟教廷的關係是長久的你這樣說我們就不要邦加國了啊那個叫實質外交的關係啊是不是部長這一部分老實講外交部做得很爛啦大扣分啦不然聽一下說你們爭取怎麼樣請問是來支持中國大陸大家嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7554.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7563.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
當然有啊 中國是什麼都會打壓的啊不管是任何事情一推奧白虎啊 中華民國的外交部長就好做了我們只要呼吸 中共也會打壓所以中華民國外交部長很好做啊只要不順利就說啊 叫他打壓在國際上真的是我們外交的困境你也了解我們也在不斷的突破中國大陸對台灣的打壓幾十年來都如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7581.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7584.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
他不是今天在打壓也不會說林鄭月娥當部長在打壓always 打壓他跟我們有邦交國我要強調是這個他跟我有邦交國 排不出我們的總統也排不出我們的副總統那是有夠假的我這部長有夠假的 真是的啊 臭婆娘是不是有夠假的 真的我講這個話你接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7609.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7623.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我認為 我不接受啊你不接受 你說很棒其實外交是很複雜的委員也了解我們跟這個教廷的關係要能夠維繫可能喔 然後我們也今天跟我們有正式邦交國這麼重要的慶典我們派不出我們的總統 副總統沒有辦法去你說你同學覺得怎麼樣我想新的教宗他應該也會有新的作為啦我們這個也是有所期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7639.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7641.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
你是準備要斷交是不是我們希望關係可以不斷的再提升請問你今年度不會斷交嗎比如說這個一年前委員也問過我我剛上任的時候我們就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7656.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7673.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我們就是把12個邦交國都顧好這是基本的但是我們還是要除了顧邦還要容邦希望能夠在外交空間走出去這個純潔能區我沒有意見因為它又有天主教的背景但是我在意的是它是我們的邦交國 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7676.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7686.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
不能夠只有搞實質外交關係正式外交關係請問你有沒有跟他們提出來說要請總統或是副總統去有沒有提出來我們都有溝通有沒有提出來 正式提出來陳副總統他也轉達了總統的致賀函面交他們也有回覆我問你 你有沒有正式跟他說我們要找我們的 請我們的總統出席 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7706.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7709.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們當然有列入我們的選項你有沒有跟他講啦我們透過駐教廷的大使他們說NO他們負責的國務院嘛就是還是原來的人嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7720.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7745.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
國務院院長他們覺得這樣的安排是比較就是說很好的安排那我們覺得對長久來看我們的跟這個教廷的關係一定要建立在這樣的互信然後不斷去提升那過去有一些限制我們希望能夠突破什麼限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7747.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7766.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
因為大家應該也了解2018年這個涉及到的這個教廷跟中國的主教任命臨時協定那自從那個之後那個頒一張粉牌的一些這個帳一格一格算啦政策啦我們看喔這個今年的WHA 也是供給CPTPP 大家說要去 也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7770.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7787.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
到現在為止萊豬也吃了核食也吃不了什麼都說那個你們以前的次長李存啊還公開說勒辯論的時候說只要吃了萊豬就可以加入CPTPP啊這樣咕咕咕啊CPTPP也沒有 都在騙啦都在騙啦 外交部變成說謊部啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7793.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7798.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這個是真的很悲哀的事情好最後一個題目回到今天大家很熱門的問請問你林昶佐到底是最早誰提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7803.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7829.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
林昶佐要當這個大使是你提出來的是不是任何大使代表這個都是總統所任命的所以總統交給你你就發布我外交部長當然我會綜合考量也會建議那以我們各個我們現在總和外交的推動來適材適所來安排駐外的這個大使跟代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7830.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7851.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
對啦 我是不知道啦 他是要去 現在是芬蘭欠歌手是不是欠歌手芬蘭不是只有重金屬音樂 芬蘭人權 安全 經貿 觀光都非常的發展我們不能夠小看了芬蘭不然我不知道林昶佐最主要就是他很會唱歌啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7853.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7871.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
他是以前你們的同事內兩屆的外交國防委員會而且就是他代表台灣到包括丹麥的民主峰會還受拜登總統之邀去華埔你這樣王定理更適合也是適合啊你也很適合啊做了這麼久的外交國防的召委我覺得委員您也非常適合您具備的資歷真的是這個擔任大使啊真的可以說駕輕就熟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7880.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7895.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
這樣後來就盡量讓大使都娶女兒就對了美國就是這樣 國會議員去擔任大使的比比皆是這是未來的趨勢是不是現在就是如此 不是說只有未來 過去也是那就是先預祝穩定議員會當大使 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7899.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7903.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
不是這樣啦 意思是這樣 現在進行司都要找我們的立委當大使我是第一次聽到啦國會議員啦 美國的國會議員當大使的 算起來我想我幾百人去了好啦 我跟你講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7915.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7940.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
林昶佐他去擔任大使給外界的感觸就是是大陸人不知道還是沒有外交官 外交官資深的像現在坐在這裡面的一堆外交官心裡他沒有XXX我都不相信委員您上次問的時候就好幾個現在去當大使了像那個住印尼的你最左邊那一個人那個他也很想當大使他時間到了也會去當他還沒有當你看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7943.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7962.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
這裏面都有資格,而且很多人其實都...你說奇怪,你說那邊的人要做大使,這裏面的人要做大使,整間都要做大使我跟你講,比如像希臘,愛爾蘭,還有這個以前都是比較屬於非職業外交官現在都由職業外交官去擔任大使,最近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7963.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7965.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
職業會教官林昌祖不是職業會教官吧我們領悟局長去希臘還有我們的那個去我們的那個原社會主任去愛爾蘭我總結一句話就結束了你的意思就是說未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7983.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7992.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
立委 中國立委的出任外交官的機會很大外交國安委員會特別是很適合啦 外交國安委員會現在做不吞黨派都很適合第二個 未來越多越多不是外交官擔任大使這有一個比例的限制啦 那有時的名額啦 我們都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8007.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8025.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
就是視財視所為主不是因為名額要可以賺多少我們還是職業外交官除了芬蘭比較肯欠歌手以外我找不出理由說為什麼找他去當大使了謝謝來 多才多藝也是好事接下來由黃國昌委員執行那待會我們楊瓊瑜委員上來執行之後我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8041.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8063.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
謝謝主席,麻煩有請部長部長,上一次見面的時候,我問你何仁傑的事情然後我說,他是不是該辦特殊採訪而沒有辦我說是然後你說政風事會回去處理,一個禮拜會有結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8065.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8089.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
結果下一次在外交國防委員會的時候那個時候你應該有邀功沒有來結果真相大白你們外交部翻供所以賀仁傑本來就不用辦特殊查核部長規定是基本要辦一般查核但他所接觸的業務應該辦特殊查核但沒有辦嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8091.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8114.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這個是過去嘛 過去的人依照這個標準 如果以我的標準 我會辦不是啦 我們一樣一樣來啦不要在那邊挪來挪去的啦第一個 規範上他不應該辦特殊查核他只是 就是基本上要辦一般查核對不起 規範上他要不要辦特殊查核 奇怪我的問題有這麼難理解嗎我在問你特殊查核 你一直在跟我扯一般查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8115.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8133.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我的問題有這麼難理解嗎對不起我再說一次規範上他要不要做特殊查核規範上如果按照既有的規定是不必那你為什麼上次說要我認為他接觸的業務是要所以現在怎麼辦那就是由政風去辦理按照規定來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8134.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8151.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
按照什麼規定來辦 你現在規範上就不用辦特殊查核啊如果以他接觸的事物啊 我認為是要對嘛 現在規範上就不用辦特殊查核啊我有說錯嗎這不是你們上次外交部的同仁的回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8152.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8177.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我是部長我如果去任命這樣的一個人我是認為他所接觸的業務是需要特殊查核但是依照當時的規定到現在還是這個規定是沒有需要特殊查核到現在還是這個規定我們現在就是要必須要改革改好了沒有現在行政院整體都在針對這樣還需要多久以及要任命的沒有關係啦這還需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8177.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8193.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
改好了沒有 還需要多久這行政院會有整體的行政院整體的規劃我們大家都很了解啦一個基本的事實研議了六年 七年 八年例子不生沒舉啦現在出了一個這麼大的洞那你現在說 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8194.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8221.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
追下大白了嘛規範上不需要辦特殊查核但身為部長你不贊成嘛你認為應該要辦特殊查核嗎事後來看啦行政院現在正在進行作業當中還要作業多久不知道行政院在辦理中所以行政院要進行多久你也不知道沒關係嘛繼續拖嘛這不是很重要的事嗎應該辦特殊查核的事情沒有辦特殊查核現在變共諜啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8224.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8233.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
行政院說要檢討這件事情發生到現在多久了檢討到今天還在檢討部長你對於行政院的效率滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8235.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8263.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我當然尊重行政院他綜合因為他那麼多的部會他在辦理但對外交部我們的政風調查報告已經完成我認為如果實質的判定他接觸的業務是需要查核啦但是當時在最早任命的時候因為還不知道他會接觸什麼業務嘛所以那個時候跟在吳釗燮還旁邊還不知道他會接觸什麼業務在外交部部長辦公室裡面收機密文件還不知道他會接觸什麼業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8265.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8265.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
所以是規範有問題還是吳釗燮有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8268.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8288.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我想規範就是說是死的嘛可是這個人的任命因為他是用所謂一等之義那這樣的聘用是可以不用辦特殊查只要辦一般查規範上面這種人不用辦特殊查的現在結果來看嫌有不足是嘛所以我個人認為如果接住業務的職職你到現在都還在研議嘛你沒有說錯嗎我們政風已經調查完畢而且對於改進的應該要去做一些改進啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8298.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8324.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
沒有關係啦 我們拭目以待嘛這麼重要的事情 我們拭目以待嘛看卓榮泰要拖多久嘛來 第二題我去年有問你卡貝的事情喔蠻有趣的啦你們外交部的業務報告從過去比較常用的詞叫做價值外交到這一次 卓榮泰新的施政報告出現一個新的名詞叫總和外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8325.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8336.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
從價值外交啊 到總和外交啊總和外交有包括金錢外交嗎沒有沒有嘛 好那我的問題還是一樣我們會不會幫其他國家繳卡貝的股款 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8338.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8362.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我們希望說我們已經在一些國際組織包括這些金融系統的角色上善用花錢繳我們自己的股款我作為民意代表我OK啊我支持啊花台灣納稅的錢繳台灣的股款我OK我現在的問題一模一樣花台灣納稅的錢去幫外國繳股款外交部同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8363.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8377.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我想我們一定是按照規定來辦理那我們必須要去善用包括咖啡 包括亞銀 包括歐銀同意 沒錯我是認為要去好好的發揮我們在這裡面的角色所以我們要確保我們的影響力 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8380.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8401.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
所以要確保影響力的方式是幫其他外國繳股款嗎是嗎一定基於我們國家的利益在做整體的考慮跟佈局所以你還是沒有答案嗎我想有機會我會跟委員詳細說明在總和外交上這一些政策工序是很重要的總和外交不包括金錢外交但是包括幫其他國家繳股款是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8404.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8423.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
總和外交不包括金錢外交但是包括幫其他國家繳股款是這樣嗎對 就是去發揮我們的影響力確保後果是有利於國家的意義我明確的跟部長講啦這件事情上面我們有價值立場的不同我表達我的立場你只要清楚表達外交部的立場就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8423.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8450.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們的價值立場不同我支持民主我支持價值外交但是拿台灣人的錢去繳幫其他國家繳股款對不起啊我不懂這個是什麼外交我跟委員說明嘛比如說我們的總和外交有經濟外交我們過去是援助現在加強投資那怎麼樣善用我們在國際先停一下你要去外國投資是一回事啊去外國投資那東西還是我們的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8451.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8473.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
你要拿台灣人的錢去做婦女的父權去照顧當地貧窮的小孩讓他們受教育從普世價值來講我都贊成但是你拿台灣人的錢去幫其他國家繳股款這是哪門子的外交啊這不是金錢外交什麼是金錢外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8474.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8492.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這不是啦 這個我們在裡面有骨折我們可以善用來榮榮計畫你說這絕對不是金錢外交嘛但我就認為這就是金錢外交我做部長任內我不會用金錢外交因為我長期你對我也了解啦你不會做金錢外交但是你會拿台灣當罪人的錢去幫人家繳股款 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8492.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8517.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
任何的方式只要有助於我們國家的利益包括拿台灣的錢去幫人家繳股款不是 那個都是手段那個目的是為了要來捍衛我們外交上面那這個籠幫計畫跟以前只是在繳繳不繳是兩回事啦謝謝委員的指導我們會善用每一筆預算包括去幫國家其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8518.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8546.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
繳股款不管用什麼方法合法的然後我們用大大聲聲這樣講跟國際的合作作為立法委員我們需要讓人民知道錢到哪裡去了嘛我有說錯嗎所以我才具體的問你嘛是不是要拿去幫其他國家繳股款是就是嘛你確定了這個事實以後確定了這個事實要怎麼評價每一個人心裡都有一把尺啊是我同意委員講的目的啦一定要達到不然的話這會被人家批評 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8548.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8550.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
謝謝黃國昌委員實訊 接下來由楊瓊英委員上台質詢謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言 邀請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8573.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8593.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
副長,我們來討論,川普4月份對大多數的美國貿易國家開徵了高額的關稅,剛開始他原則上台灣是設定32%的加注關稅,之後他又降到10%,為期90天,大家有這個時間來好好的討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8596.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8617.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那同時呢 在國內的產業 因為我們是出口導向所以大家都非常非常的關心 非常關心尤其呢 在中部地區 我們的產業我們的手工具機 工具機 機械類別 零組件這一些呢 都是我們的幫手 非常的重要因為出口導向 所以都很緊張 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8618.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8635.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那在這樣的情況之下呢川普日前又說在未來的二到三週他會請他的財政部長跟商務部長會發函給各國也告訴大家到底內容是什麼所以本席首先要請教這個二到三週要發函的也包括我們台灣嗎我們會收到信嗎請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8639.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8651.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我們現在台灣跟美國在有關關稅談判是順利進行當中那我們也就是說至於說川普會不會去宣布哪個國家這不是我們能夠掌握的啦不過就是我們跟他的談判在第一批而且現在順利進行中是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8656.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8658.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這個指的是說沒有跟他啟動談判他要宣布薪水利還是包括已經在談判中因為理論上在談判中就是所以現在沒有辦法確認我們在這二三週會不會收到信嗎是這麼解讀嗎因為這是川普的決策我們無法代言我們繼續來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8675.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8686.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我們要掌握這個脈動因為就是總統先生日前也受訪問的時候他有說談判的目的就是要避免大於10%的高關稅這個情況那我方呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8690.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8705.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我們要怎麼樣爭取對我們台灣最有利對我們國家最有利的所以請教部長我們的關稅會不會高過10%還有我們都非常好台美都非常好的這個情況之下我們台灣會有豁免的產品嗎你目前有這個方向跟訊息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8712.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8715.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
因為賴總統他有在國際媒體上發表一個就是說就是強化台美經貿路徑圖然後現在我們跟美方的談判也就相關的項目在已經都有這個一個清單在有方案所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8730.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8751.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這個稅 我們當然像對等關稅是越低越好至少不能高於我們對我們其中的國家因為你是外交部長 都參與其中 而且等於是在第一線所以再一次請教 總統先生這麼說了會不會我們會低於還是高於這10% 這是第一個議題第二個也就是我們的豁免產品 據你所悉到目前為止我們有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8753.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8776.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
我們希望說在半導體還有這些跟資通訊有關的能夠豁免因為這個我們供應鏈跟美國是半導體跟資通訊對 跟互補嘛因為我們這些產品跟它說實在是供應鏈的關係其實如果高關稅是兩敗俱傷甚至甚至它傷得更重我們當然是去說明那事實上他們也慢慢的了解我們像這個供應鏈互補的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8778.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8786.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
可是基於談判的策略最後的結果會如何現在是對等關稅在先跟電子業相關的這一些這個本來就沒有關稅的問題的時候現在再加上去但是這個是屬於232條款那現在先談的是對等關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8801.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8829.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
可是因為對冷關稅是把所有的貿易利差都算進來那我們希望把那個也把它扣除掉其實台美的貿易利差就不大了好 這是我們非常的這個希望那麼也希望台灣的豁免產品成本你剛才所報告的那接下來請教南非打壓我國的住處處理的進度目前到底是如何因為在二月份要求我們簽署首都三月份的時候又更名那現在最近又要改為 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8830.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8853.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這個約翰你是到目前為止我們我方我們交涉的進度到底是如何我們的解方究竟是什麼請做說明是南非想要要求我們簽管或者是說要幫我們變更這些地位是從去年就開始我們也做很早的因應那到目前為止聽到您說這個是小動作但是這個小動作我們要怎麼去因應呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8857.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8881.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我們有做好這個就是對策嘛就是說如果實質上因為這個是他片面行為我們不予承認因為根據台灣跟南非的這個1997年雙邊簽訂的協議啊他不能夠片面這樣子做我們法律藝術中我們也研究過實質的整個怎麼樣去反制啊我們也有方案那他現在基於什麼政治的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8882.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8901.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
片面做這個行為我們在交涉中而且表達嚴正的抗議那因為這個東西也引發了他們國內外的反彈除了美國以外政府跟國會包括他們自己的聯合政府裡面的政黨還有在野黨以及社會大眾包括輿論所以這個壓力其實也是回到他那邊去所以我們希望說還有緩衝的空間但一旦他真正實質傷害到我們比如說強迫要我們監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8909.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8925.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
或者是做了一些這是違反協議的事情的時候那我們也會有反制這些方案也都準備好部長您剛才談到的我們會有反制喔那麼我們也希望能夠確保它是我們不會遷出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8925.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8943.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這是我們努力的方向所以您剛才講了兩個重點第一個是片面的行為我們不予承認第二個我們的因應一定要小心應對方案也就是我們不能欠租你可以確保嗎對這是我們的目標也是目前的現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8944.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8961.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
你是目前的現況,所以你一定要確保,是不是?是好,接下來本席要請教,因為09年招聚WHA但是我們台灣的醫療是非常非常的在國際間對國際也很幫助我們台灣也真的是太棒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8961.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8987.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
所以在這樣的一個情況之下WHA即將在5月19號到27號在瑞士日聯網要展開所以本席當然也主張我們台灣的醫療實力是享譽國際我們不該被排除所以我們外交部要怎麼樣的方案有效的來推動在我們這個方向能夠加入WHA 請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8987.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9012.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
是 那我因為在這一次衛福部長率隊出去日瑞瓦參加WHA的大會之前我們有開雙部長的記者會那我們一方面當然就是由我國家聯名或進洽到邦交國跟非邦交國這些情形都是越來越多支持我們的力量另外可能到大會之後我們要申請加入會有辯論 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9014.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9037.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
目前我想還是按照往例進行按照往例進行所以部長因為我們台灣的醫療實力確確實實是國際間也非常的重視也是我們最佳的一個優點也是我們最佳的一個戰慾國際的實力我們務必一定要加強而且去落實我跟委員說明一下這次有個特色就是強調智慧醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9039.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9055.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我們包括像宏碁 智一還有廣達電腦我們現在包括在APEC裡面提的那個所謂數位跟AI在醫療上去解決這些所謂的落差這就是我們剛才討論的對 也就是我們的醫療實力數位科技的應用非常的讚我們也在這裏面展示也因為WHA這樣子我們看到美國即將要推出WHO |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9066.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9082.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那在這樣的一個情況之下台灣台灣是否會失去一個很重要的發聲的一個重要力量那在這樣的情況之下我們外交部你的因應措施呢如果陳真你的因應措施呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9083.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9110.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這涉及到就是所謂川普總統他們在美國退出這個WHO之後是不是有另外成立類似的組織如果有我們會去參加嘛但是我們還是爭取參加WHO這個我們認為這個問題關鍵當然是因為政治上所以最近包括美國還有歐盟還有很多像日本的國家都在所謂聯合國2758號決議上採取很明確的立場支持台灣而且認為這跟台灣參加包括世界衛生組織這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9112.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9141.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
沒有排除台灣參加所以我們台灣的醫療實力是戰慾國際我們現在台日 台美 台歐盟我們必須要加緊這個腳步因為這個是我們非常重要的一個發展的根基參與是我們的權利並沒有被任何決議排除那現在就是說我們沒參加也是世界的損失但是沒參加世界損失我們還可以用其他的方法來貢獻世界所以應對的方案一定要備案 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9141.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9163.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
當然我們不希望他是陳真但是應對的方案我們務必要備案我們爭取參加世界衛生組織但是我們並不以不能參加就不能夠參與或貢獻國民所以剛剛北京所說的台日台美台歐盟我們都必須要務實的去落實嗎好謝謝謝謝楊瓊英的上台質詢接下來我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9474.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9498.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
現在開始開會接下來由王帝宜委員曾任賢委員上台執行曾任賢委員上台執行曾任賢委員曾任賢委員不在蔡易宜委員上台執行蔡易宜委員蔡易宜委員蔡易宜委員不在請王帝宜委員上台執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9505.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9529.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
好 謝謝主席 麻煩部長我們都希望我們在外交的工作上一方面不用看輕自己也不用疑神疑鬼當然也不能粉飾太平 不能憂慘畏饑所以本席今天我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9531.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9550.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
像請外交部我們一起來討論一個問題就是說在中國跟拉美的共同體論壇我們兩個邦交國一個聖路西亞一個海地他們的官方人員有出席我有看到你們的回應說他們的政府說那是代表政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9552.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9565.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我不曉得外交部怎麼看待這兩個國家出席中國拉美論壇你們怎麼定義它是一個警訊呢還是一個什麼樣的指標你們怎麼定義它 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9567.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9588.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
跟委員報告 因為這次中拉的論壇是已經辦理過所以這一次我們都有在預防 那也跟很多友邦溝通至於說海地跟深入下都有特殊的狀況 那也都有跟我們說明所以我們當然還是希望說他們能夠不出息 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9589.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9611.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
出席他們也保證不會涉及跟台灣邦交的傷害當然他們回來之後也跟我們再進一步有報告我還是問一下我們國家外交部對這個看法是認為OK一切在可控範圍內所以還好不用擔心還是把它視為一個警訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9613.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9635.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
這些都是我們必須注意的警訊但是我們也在可控的範圍內事前事後都做妥善的因應這個CELAC這個拉美跟加勒比海國家聯盟然後中國透過跟這個聯盟的33個國家組了一個叫做中國與拉美的論壇那這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9638.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9664.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
論壇呢在目前為止大概部長級會議辦了四屆嘛對不對是第一屆是2015第二屆是2018第三屆後來因為COVID延後了到20212018到2021之間還有視訊的部長級會議再來就是這一次的2025年5月13號這一次的部長級會議我請問部長前面三次聖露西亞跟海地他們有沒有官員與會 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9667.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9686.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
前面三次有沒有沒有好跟以前他自己比沒有這一次2025年的5月13號我們在那個區域的四個邦交國瓜地馬拉貝里斯海地還有聖露西亞另外那兩國有沒有派員參加沒有那為什麼就這兩國 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9687.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9702.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
海地的情形當然他們的說明是從2月開始其實我們就交涉了因為就已經知道要在北京辦我們也有去溝通希望他能夠不派代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9703.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9719.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
不過基於海地它現在因為是臨時政府有一些未來的維和工作也需要聯合國包括中國你們認為聖露西亞跟海地派去的人員是官方代表還是非官方代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9720.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9744.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
以海地來講他是這個外交部長所以他這一定的程度是有代表性不過他們的說明是他們是以拉共體作為整體這個決定沒有啊以拉共體來講他前三次沒去啊對以拉共體來講貝里斯沒去啊瓜地馬拉沒去啊如果你們認為是去沒關係我可控那下一次瓜地馬拉跟貝里斯為什麼不去 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9745.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9774.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
因為海地的情形現在在國際的因為他現在臨時政府也不能做出決定所以我們有很多當然有因應的方案在避免意外發生所以這個是我要提醒外交部就是說那個區域是我們非常重要的坦白講叫外交戰場也是美國從Rubio這些佛羅里達邦進入國務院之後很重視的區域 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9775.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9796.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
每一件事情都有它的意義如果我們認為這個區有跟我們講過了然後這兩個國家說他們是代表民間那就沒關係了我給你保證很快就有第五屆部長級會議很快那個區域我們的邦交國同時參加否則不公平啊你對那兩國覺得沒關係啊所以我們怎麼因應怎麼處理你事前勸導了應該有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9799.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9817.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
事前應該有勸辭啦那他還是不聽執意要去外交部長去代表國家欸另外一個講什麼政黨啦這個民間人士他根本就是聖露西亞的無任所大使是聖露西亞聘任的無任所大使外交人員然後這一個所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9822.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9843.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
中國與拉美論壇的部長級會議是中國2014年開始跟所謂的拉美加勒比海這些國家這個聯盟所組成的一個叫做建制化的合作關係他論壇之後還有後續追蹤事項以及後續合作事項美國對這個事情有沒有看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9849.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9878.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
因為海地他現在的情形就是臨時政府所以不能夠對外交做出什麼決定那我們當然二月七之後也跟他不斷的溝通那在他的這個保證事後來看也沒有就是說跟他先前跟我們表達的我可不可以建議Pending一些跟他們談妥的合作事項我覺得外交我們會通盤來做考量我在國會部門我可以建議當然我不建議部長直接隨著我話講 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9879.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9887.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
本席建議對聖露西亞或海地我們有一些合作的援助的方案Pending他 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9888.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9917.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我跟你們報告 包括最近我們以三省來講包括美國 包括他們的總理到華府那當然這個是多邊的關係的運用我們必須加強跟這些國家的關係不一定是用檢法啦那怎麼樣借助美國 也關注拉美特別是盧比奧國務卿從美國通過台北法案以後美國在跟台灣 在我們現有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9918.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9944.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
不管是邦交關係或者非邦交關係他會用他們的外交工具來跟台灣一起合作這個我們知道也一段時間了有時候好一點有時候少一點那個部分我們都知道我現在意思是說在這個區域有四個國家現在有兩個國家呢也可以講說無視於跟我們的默契或無視於台灣美國跟這個區域我們有相關的默契他去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9946.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9958.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
如果他去了你還可以給他加罰的話等於是鼓勵壞同學懲罰好同學所以我們國會可以當黑臉 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9959.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9989.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
對於這樣的國家我剛剛委員會的意思我並不是說加法我是說是不是要去針對某一些項目怎麼樣減法我們還要再通盤的來研議你們從去年因為今年一二月就開始類似專案在處理這個事情在monitor這個情形了海地的部分持續很密切的關注你們關注到它真的五月份發生了那應該也有預判發生之後我應該採取什麼樣的因應處理嗎你們現在有沒有方案有 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9990.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10012.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我私底下如果因為有涉及到有一些機密我們跟海地關係的加強不用全部都在這邊公開揭露但是你們應該已經預先想好scenario one我應該採取什麼方案第二種狀況我要什麼方案應該要有那我們對拉美跟加勒比海區域有沒有其他的外交突破點或新的亮點 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10015.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10042.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
當然我們都有在推動中因為是讓美國對西半球的重視包括我們在這些國家有一些外交的成果也有一定的示範效果我講具體一點啦比如某個國家蝦農 嘿嘿嘿40%失業被中國騙了一天到晚都說希望跟台灣來談 OK |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10044.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10056.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
當然你重力旺益台灣也不是潘娜但是有很多外交機會出現的時候我們該怎麼樣建構對我們國家利益最有幫助的舞台或者局面 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10058.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10082.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我真的希望我們國外交委員會兩位召委可以排專門就那個區域的局勢可以談一談當美國跟薩爾瓦多談把他們一些犯人移到那裡Rubio跑到那裡去了當拉美加勒比海有一些外交的三角形的變化的時候台灣在那裡有沒有能夠更進一步的這個我是建議部長可以處理那另外呢因為今天時間關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10084.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10103.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我們現在這個你可以日經亞洲報導說外國駐台的人員創新高那就外交部目前統計起來有哪些國家新派外交人員新派我想美日英等國確實都增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10106.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10117.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
派出的人員嘛那增派的外交人員的項目是哪?比方說是經貿類的或者國安類的或者軍事類的他增加的外交人員有沒有哪個範圍比較大? |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10119.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10145.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
應該都有 當然對於因為台灣現在跟國際的交流有很多實質上包括中共對台的這一些混合戰 灰色地帶的侵擾還有各種的假訊息 資安這都是新興的項目另外當然經貿我們包括在科技尤其是跟半導體相關的產業就我目前能夠看到的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10146.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10169.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
不管是英國、日本、澳洲跟德國他們增加在台灣的駐台灣的外交人員多數都跟區域安全或戰略事務有關嘛這是一部分應該多數是我第一個請外交部整理一份你用機密的我沒有意見整理一份駐台的外交人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10170.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10186.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
各國各地區他增加的人員是增加哪一類的多少人員新增了當然代表台灣越來越重要各國派更多的駐地人員來到台灣這當然是好事但我們也要了解他派了哪個類別如果派的都是經濟事務的那讓在經濟事務上 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10187.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10214.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
他可能有一些想法要跟我們談派的都是戰略安全事務上的可能在這方面有些事務要談那我們的對口單位應該要整合國內相關部會跟來進行對話這個資料可不可以整理一份給本席好其他部分我就不佔太多時間了我請特別注意聖露西亞跟海地的事情可能怎麼處理會影響後續我希望如果在公開不便的話私下能夠提供相關資訊給我們好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10217.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10217.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
謝謝主席 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10241.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10265.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
部長好部長今天有很多委員都很關心林昶佐到底有沒有辦法勝任芬蘭大使之士其實我們所知道的林昶佐當然是從政之前的閃靈樂團再來他從政之後因為我曾經跟他當過同事也曾經觀察過他其實我覺得他對於人權方面他一直都是非常的關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10266.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10283.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那當然他兩屆都在外交國防委員會我們也知道說他對這個國際事務的這個關心好那除了談到林昶佐之外當然就是談到這個芬蘭喔芬蘭這個國家過去我曾經造訪過也是非常重視人權的一個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10283.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10294.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那他的這個社會福利政策呢也是非常的完善那大家可能比較不太清楚就是說像這個芬蘭除了這些之外呢其實他的這個重金屬樂團的這個團數是全球 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10299.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10325.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
居守的我曾經看過報導就是說在10萬人裡面其實他們會有70個重金屬的樂團所以不管是說芬蘭目前它所重視的議題其實跟林昶佐其實是非常的match那再來還有就是說我覺得林昶佐用他的音樂專長去做這個外交工作他跟芬蘭其實有共同的語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10326.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10338.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
有何不可?本身是認為有何不可?Why not?這是我自己的一個想法啦那當然部長剛剛也提了很多那當然我在媒體上也看到就是說部長其實你有在說為什麼會說希望是林昶佐出任芬蘭大使之事這大概都有跟這個國人說得非常的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10348.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10363.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那再來的話呢 當然就是今天很重要的這個議題就是我們預算案的這個解凍那其實每一項的這個解凍都是非常的重要都是關係到這個外交的這個推動那其中呢 被凍結了50%的這個業務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10368.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10386.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我想大家會很擔心就是說今天有沒有辦法順利來做解凍所以本席想請部長在這裡很明確的告知國人就是說如果這個醫護費今天沒有辦法順利解凍的話我們到底會面臨哪一些困境尤其對這個外交工作請問部長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10388.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10412.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
報告委員 因為凍結業務會一半我們想說至少半年 下半年 可是因為他必須要執行就是30%以上才能夠來申請結論現在這個時間是5月中 當然是已經很急迫因為有些事情是需要規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10413.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10430.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
包括一些可能我們外館的業務設施那處於不確定性高的時候是沒有辦法去推展所以我們是懇求這個大院還有委員會能夠盡快的能夠讓通過好能夠啟動一些準備工作是 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10431.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10458.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
業務當然也包括駐外館很多的這些舉辦的活動以外一些僱員因為外館其實也借助很多當地的人來幫助我們那這些都是會是影響那其他一般性我們國人出國涉及到的一些不管是急難救助或是相關的這些國際交流邀訪也都會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10458.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10483.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
是像目前我們所看到的就是說像部長所提的可能我們駐外管的這個業務的運作呢可能會受到很大的這個影響嘛那再來還有一點就是要提到就是WTOWTO的話是我們唯一一個加入這個經貿組織唯一的一個組織嘛那我們所了解就是說像年初的時候我們必須要繳交一個326萬的美金的這個匯費這部分已經繳交了是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10488.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10507.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
是 因為他有stay line 我們就用另外先墊支啦所以用墊支的方式來處理那可是WTO不單單只是繳會費而已啊這部分能不能如果說今天這個沒有辦法順利解凍這個WTO後續的推動會哪一部分的影響嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10508.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10520.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
因為我們為了繳非會就排擠了其他的比如交流活動或者是有一些參與會議的預算只是為了繳非那其他的活動就所以這部分的話我們是從其他的地方做顛覆所以已經我們只能夠從這一個項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10522.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10526.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
所以為了繳費當然會其他放在這個科目裡面的那我們應該還會有一些部長會議等等之類的這個會影響都會影響都沒有辦法去參與了嗎它有排擠效果會有排擠效果所以這邊的話所以部長還要懇求朝野都一起來支持我們這個業務費的通過不然的話會受到很大的影響那再來我們也要繳的費我們當然希望我們業務也能夠推動是 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10548.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10563.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那再來還有我們現在也要積極的就是推動加入這個CPTPP如果說這個業務費沒有解凍的話是不是這個也是受到很大的影響對 這在同一個項目下當然會互相會有這個使用上對於我們國際組織的這個參與呢其實是會受阻的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10566.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10593.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那之前我有曾經呢聽一位我們的外交官說我們都曉得說美國服務員非常的遼闊有時候真的是要飛到另外一地另外一地是進行這個外交工作的時候其實或是要開會其實有時候要坐國內的飛機可是我有聽過外交官就有提到就是說為了省省這個交通費所以他們有時候一大早就開車自己開車然後呢去開會部長你知道這件事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10594.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10614.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
有,都有聽聞,那其實像我跟委員報告,我們外交部的預算,只佔我們現在中央政府總預算不到百分之一,而且逐年遞減,這是一個,我是覺得我們必須,因為現在外交隨著,除了我們很多國家要跟我們交往以外,中國在國際上的影響力越來越大, |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10615.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10640.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
所以其實如果是我們跟中國在國際上的角力其實我們是壓力越來越大當然我們去尋求總和外交包括理念相近國家的支持不過我也是要懇求就除了今年的預算能夠及早的解凍以外其實我們也可能要重新去思考我們向外交扮演一個什麼樣的角色那需要多少預算不然的話以目前來講是確實捉襟見肘 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10642.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10663.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那我們外交的人員都很專業都經過特考還有這些怎麼讓他們充分的發揮這個我想也利用這個機會我們也會針對新年度的預算就能夠反映我們現在的政策目標這也敬請這個委員的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10664.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10689.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
對啦 我一直在想說這些預算都是我們推動這個國會外交對要發生其實很重要的一些經費喔所以我在想說待會兒可能我們就需要來處理這個預算的部分啦所以也就 欸 我們只好點頭所以呢 也希望就是朝野一起來支持因為最近也常常聽到一些外交工作受阻然後 說實在外交人員真的是非常的這個辛苦啦所以希望大家來支持好 以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10693.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10693.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
謝謝主席,有請外交部林佳榮部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10722.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10729.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
最近外交部問題其實也蠻多的,等一下依照我有很多問題要問,我想請部長等一下簡短的重點的回答部長,相信今天其實所有的委員都非常的在意就是有關前立委林昶佐將接任芬蘭代表的這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10741.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10745.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
當然執政黨都是非常稱讚林昶佐說他過去長期待在外交國防委員會所以熟悉我國的國防的政策但外界仍然是有一些質疑在林昶佐過去他有用一個焦慮症的理由沒有服兵役但是這個已經引發了一些爭議然後其實在醫學上焦慮跟憂鬱其實是兩種不同的類型的情緒上面的困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10768.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10787.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
但是這個常常會一起發生然後芬蘭有高居不下的自殺率在1990年的時候芬蘭是全球自殺率最高的國家而且北歐這些國家都是日照很短的國家其實這種病症是很容易發作的所以我在想說他真的適合去擔任芬蘭的代表嗎還是因為他是有綠色黨證的特定人士 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10795.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10799.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
然後讓你們突然忽略他的健康的問題這樣會不會造成他的問題很慷慮啊其實這一點是我們非常擔心的因為你們千萬不要害他其實北歐這些國家根本在於他這種焦慮症憂鬱症的人是不太適合去那個地方的那我想如果是說外交部已經選任林昶佐要出任芬蘭大使的這個消息已經屬實了那你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10821.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10850.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
還有一點就是外交人員可以接受嗎可以信任和甘心的服從嗎那請部長林長佐委員他的背景還有專業是屬於深任那至於說他的兵役或者他的病史我想我們就不待為回答這個問題他應該有對社會會做說明那我們是從整體的佈局在北歐這個整個區域我們要發揮最大的總和外交的效應的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10851.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10877.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
如果一個對於人權關心然後有音樂的專長然後能夠做文化外交我想對整個區域跟台灣的關係的提升我們是有所期待當然現在這個人事案是在作業中還沒有他需要由總統基於他的任命那總統府來公告那是因為委員關心那我想我自己也來自於民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10877.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10884.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我也知道在我的範圍內盡量跟大家說明至於說他個人的身體的情形這我比較不方便來代言 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10887.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10906.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
因為我知道我只是一個建議因為北歐國家真的不太適合有這種病症的人去當然人要健康的情況下才有辦法做好任何事情所以我在想說我還是提醒部長外交工作真的是推動非常的不容易一定要多方面的評估啊而且也還要為財適用才行 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10910.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10915.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
接下來我再想請問一下WHA世界衛生大會的議題今天請問到今天WHA會議都已經開始了我們這次應該沒有收到邀請函是不是對沒有那部長那你覺得自從民進黨執政到現在已經八年了然後連WHA的觀察員這個身份都失去了但我們台灣的醫療在全世界其實都是前段班的新冠疫情的時候其實全球的防疫也是做得非常的好但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10940.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10948.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
遲遲都沒有辦法叩關成功這樣是否表示我們的外交工作還是要有很大的努力空間那想請教部長一下就是WHA這是我們第九年嘛沒有收到這個邀請函但是我們總不可能一直都把這個責任推給中國的問題嘛否則我們台灣醫療再怎麼樣進步我們都沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10962.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10967.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
進去世界衛生組織裡面所以有些訊息我們就沒有辦法跟世界接軌那我想要拜託部長你是不是要好好勸勸賴總統他自己也是醫生醫者人心千萬不要為了一己之心讓政治影響到全台灣人民的健康所以部長那你贊成本席的看法嗎還有說外交部有什麼想法想要爭取世界衛生組織還有你們未來你們是要怎麼樣突破這一個困境呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10990.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11019.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我們爭取參加世界衛生組織是基於基本人權普世價值以外其實也是對世界的貢獻所以我們沒有參加也是世界的損失但是我們基於對國人我們希望健康的促進或保障我們很多的方法在周邊的一些技術性的會議也是有一定的參與因為現在的情形是大家都了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11020.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11046.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
涉及到中國他的這個壓力尤其是他用這個所謂的聯合國2758號決議那麼在這個問題上越多越來的國家表態是說明其實所謂2758號決議並沒有辦法排除台灣參加世界衛生組織這個在外交戰場是很重要甚至支持台灣的立場越來越多那至於說其他的方式我們怎麼去呈現這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11048.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11071.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
台灣沒有參加世界衛生組織是一個違反WHO的宗旨我們有很多的活動以外這一次比如透過智慧醫療數位的科技的解決方案包括AI這也是我們在APEC裡面其實都透過數位醫療在推展的那在WHO我們這次有包括像宏基智一廣達電腦他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11074.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11088.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我知道你們都有努力 但是已經那麼多年來了我們總是要突破這個困境嘛那沒關係 因為還有很多問題要問就是說現在我還是希望外交部還是要很努力啦我們還是希望能看到一個好的成果主席再給我兩分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11091.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11106.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
然後接下來我想要繼續追蹤一下就是我們南非代表處的被迫遷離的問題今年3月的時候然後南非外交部也幫官網上面的台北聯絡代表處改成台北商務辦事處其實這個看到這個是真的是非常的難過啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11107.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11122.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
因為台北雖然大部分是我國駐外代表處的名稱但是這是我們台灣為了加入國際組織不得已的妥協的方案但是如今我們現在連一個地方政府都不是了而是國際組織所以南非外交部擅自更改我們的駐處的名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11123.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11141.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
弟子刪除我國的駐外代表知道我們不願意遷離嘛就只好用這一個名義來達到目的其實這樣的行為已經是不是不禮貌了而是不尊重了而且讓我們感受到非常的受欺負那部長我們中華民國是國際組織嗎還有就連廖文哲大使的介紹都被刪除了這個是有損國格的事情那你們外交部竟然可以忍還可以吞下這個羞辱嗎所以我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11151.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11154.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
經過最近的外交部的評估我在覺得南非政府會不會是真的真心要強制驅離我們呢還是只是要用一個表態配合中國的演出然後演給中共看一下大內宣看的這樣的情況而已呢那你部長你覺得有什麼可以向我們說明的嗎有 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11172.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11192.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我們在南非社台灣的代表處這是基於我們兩國的協議啊任何的變更都需要經過諮商談判的過程所以我們除了抗議然後持續交涉我們也據理力爭至於在這個過程當中他片面的行為我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11195.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11216.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
如果他要強迫我們搬離的時候 這個已經有這樣的行動我們會有反制 這個反制包括從各個方面他應該也都理解 可是為什麼他還是做了這一些動作包括擅自改名 然後把一些資訊拿掉 矮化我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11219.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11241.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我想全世界都了解這是中國的壓力其實我覺得這種情況是越來越慘的可是這個是兩面的刃你看他這樣做之後除了美國的政府、國會之外像南非現在要爭取美國在ACOIA就是非洲成長機會法案他可能就會有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11242.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11265.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那麼另外就是說他國內也很多的不同聲音因為他的外交並沒有尊重執政聯盟所以執政聯盟你的政黨裡面公開的國會議員也表示反對的意見甚至有一些在野黨也拜訪台灣所以這些媒體大家都知道南非這樣做是站不住腳可是為什麼他還這樣做那我們就知道說背後有一些原因那為什麼只對到目前這個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11267.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11292.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
後來會不會再更重的這些行動我們當然都必須要密切觀察跟妥善因應因為今年是南非舉辦G20它跟中國之間的關係是非常密切那中國對它的影響力當然很大不過我們也並不是沒有辦法反制只是我們不希望兩敗俱傷的方式所以我們當然在現在這個情形我們還在管控中 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11294.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11299.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
一旦超過了一個範圍我們準備好的方案也會予以反制 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11300.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11306.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我還是要提醒一下就是我國駐南非使館的事情其實剛才部長也說應該是跟中國都有關係但是台灣對於這種層出不窮的這種外交事件我覺得我們真的我國應該對外關係有些難題一定有一些解方然後因為不能把這種外交工作表現不利全部都甩鍋給中國尤其是斷交部長吳釗燮 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11325.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11328.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
他自己養了共諜讓台灣失去那麼多邦交國到現在都在國安會都不敢來備詢面對責任我覺得這是不太負責任的態度但是我相信林部長你現在由你擔任外交部長我覺得肯定你是一個非常願意承擔責任的一個好部長所以我想中國打壓台灣這已經不是新聞了所以政府一定要對這個要面對要看要怎麼樣努力解決溝通那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11352.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11378.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
來這樣把這個問題好好的解決那部長你說對嗎對因為中共在國際影響力越來越大那但是我們這賴總統上任來到現在一年我們還是固守我們12個邦交國而且我們是固邦以外我們現在透過龍邦希望能夠擴展我們國際空間所以為什麼要做總和外交需要立法院的支持包括我們在經濟外交龍邦計畫上這個是台灣有很多人家想要跟我們合作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11379.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11400.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我們過去外交部歸外交部可能其他部歸其他部所以我們現在召開雙部長會議行政院有經濟外交工作小組我們就是整合我們跨部會的資源甚至民間的企業界比如說我們過去強調援助可是現在強調投資投資甚至也跟美國日本到第三國所以我們的新的外交的策略我們也會向國人報告我們在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11403.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11416.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
等川普這個關稅這個政策比較明朗化之後那我今天也有在媒體啊也有總結就是說川普政府相對過去拜登政府我們賴總統從去年520這前後這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11421.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11437.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
對應是美國的兩任的政府所以我們在政策上現在已經慢慢的可以比較能夠去就是對應啦那怎麼樣能夠發揮台美合作在我們邦交國比如說Rubio國務卿他到了這個中美洲他跟瓜地馬拉的總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11438.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11464.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
在開記者會就有提到很肯定他跟台灣維持關係那也希望促進投資那我們現在跟美國我們有EPPD經濟繁榮夥伴的對話也有所謂的機會夥伴的投資考察團這些都是我們現在用新的方式希望結合理念相近跟利益比較一致的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11466.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11485.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
從故邦、榮邦甚至到拓邦有一些國家事實上對我們發展模式相對於中共的一帶一路那一種模式造成了很多債務危機事實上是很多問題是精英俘虜也就是說中國其實在很多國家其實他做兵符符合那些國家人民的意義而是少數的政治精英 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11486.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11493.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
跟他利益交換為什麼我們會那麼辛苦就是說中共進去之後我們就會很難了那我再請問一下就是自從民進黨蔡英文前總統上任到現在總共有十個國家已經跟我們斷交了而且身邊的共諜胡釗燮前部長六年內他斷交了八個國家然後最後跟我們斷交的是諾魯是去年一月份所以剛才部長有談到邦交國的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11513.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11518.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
所以像我們現在這一次的梵蒂岡的前教宗方濟各的葬禮還有上週的新教宗的良食事事的就職那為什麼賴清德總統都沒有親自率團出席呢是不是不願意呢那如果這樣的話我們跟其他的國家還有之前的我們的總統的做法是不是會讓教廷誤認為說我們不重視他啊這樣是不是會有失禮儀啊這樣對我們未來的外交還有這些邦交國會不會有影響啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11543.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11549.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們當然跟范帝剛是都溝通那最後是用這樣的方式在現階段由陳副總統擔任總統特使去那因為他對教廷也熟之外其實可以跟高層很多的溝通那他也有表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11558.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11585.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我們希望台泛關係可以回到更正常的軌道過去一些因素大家也了解在前教宗他任內有一些跟中國的包括他們的簽訂所謂主教任命臨時協議那個東西的影響我們現在怎麼樣能夠跟新教宗有新的可能性的空間那我們基於信任也就基於說我們從宗教進入對於包括這些天主教徒在台灣他們跟教廷的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11587.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11608.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
所以我們有綜合的考量,我們不是沒有去推動,包括元首的部隊。反正我知道,因為部長,真的我們沒有辦法能讓一個邦交國再跟我們國家斷交了,所以我覺得外交部還是,我們大家一起做這個努力。好,我們全力以赴。謝謝林怡君委員的質詢,接下來有了王宏威委員上來質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11615.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11633.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
好 謝謝主席 我請林部長部長好部長今天很多都聚焦在前立委林昶佐要出任芬蘭的大使其實在上一次有關於我們駐奧地利大使的時候我就提醒過部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11634.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11661.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
也就是說如果今天我們的駐外大使一而再再而三地用仇擁的方式事實上對於我們長期在外交第一線的我們的專業外交人員是士氣一大打擊我特別提醒過您但是我覺得非常非常的遺憾大家想想看喔台灣的外交處境這麼困難而且我們有些 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11662.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11684.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
的外交人員事實上他們其實都是在一些其實環境蠻惡劣的地方我們有很多的專業的駐外人員你不要說有些地震、海嘯的國家或者是甚至有瘧疾的甚至要經過政變你想想看當時我們的駐大阪的處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11686.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11710.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
優秀的外交官就因為假新聞最後親身讓我們喪失一個非常優秀的外交官所以外交官養成不易但是當有空缺的時候我們一而再再而三的都是用仇擁請問一下部長你怎麼對得起這些外交官我現在就來給你算一算從去年520開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11713.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11735.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我們以這個林部長你擔任外交部長當然有一些很明顯是你派的有一些也許是來自於上面給你的名單在這些的名單裡面有多少是根本沒有任何駐外的經驗只是因為他是綠油油或者是龍油油我在這裡面是四個駐外的這些不管是公使 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11742.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11768.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
或者是大使裡面包含駐瑞士大使王思維他原來是保訓會的專門委員他有駐外經驗嗎沒有啊只是常常發表一些有關於國際情勢的文章駐美國公使楊一生他是民進黨的副秘書長真是根正綠紅啊非常的綠油油 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11772.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11788.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
駐越南代表劉世忠他的出身是新台灣國策智庫的執行長而且當過民進黨的黨工很多 很多職務駐越南代表來 吳建輝是駐WHO的副廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11791.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11820.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
副常任代表他是中研院的研究員他也沒有駐外經驗再來董思齊你很熟囉台灣智庫的執行長長期擔任台灣智庫執行長號稱為林佳龍子弟兵再來這是我上一次特別有提醒您的駐奧地利代表他或許是一個優秀的音樂家但是由音樂家駐奧地利 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11821.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11849.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
會不會很奇怪駐英國公使江雅琪教授出身也沒有任何的駐國外的經驗當然他也常常在一些親民進黨的平台上發表文章駐日本代表李毅陽是前內政部長現在由您口中證實的林長佐兼民進黨的立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11851.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11874.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
然後只是因為他有在我們立法院的國防外交委員會的經驗所以部長啊剛才我們講了很多我們的外交處境真的很困難這邊這麼多的外交同仁你那天怎麼跟我說的說如果大家有興趣的話都可以跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11875.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11880.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
是大家羞於啟齒還是不能講你這個名單一翻開來你對得起長期的駐外人員嗎你對得起長期的要培養的專業人員嗎為什麼一而再再而三的酬庸覺得外交不重要是不是而且酬庸的地點都非常好啊不是歐洲就是跟台灣比較接近啊回來台灣比較方便啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11906.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11912.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
但是最艱困的地區尤其是我們的一些邦交國這個就要尊重專業了合理嗎公平嗎外交這樣搞的嗎台灣外交不重要嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11921.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11934.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
部長可不可以告訴我為什麼在你擔任部長期間我們的駐外代表可以完全不尊重這些專業完全沒有駐外經驗的讓他們去外行領導內行可以這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11939.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11962.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我們都適材適所 也符合外交人員的任用條例那委員很關心的 譬如說我們的顏社會還有我們的領務局都是之前在這裡做 現在已經外派分別到愛爾蘭跟這個希臘所以總體來講 我們一定是適材適所為原則外交很辛苦 需要各方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11963.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11989.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
的一個支持 那我們一定會我剛才講了那麼多 為什麼這些專業的外交官他們都輪不上呢專業的外交官 比如剛剛以北歐來講現在有三個我們代表處一個是前駐美的副代表另外一位也是非常有經驗的那這個搭配怎麼樣好可以做區域聯防來推動總和外交我們是有總和的考量我剛才這樣講了下去 就講到一半了 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11990.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11994.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
比例會不會太高我只是要請部長能夠體諒我們第一屆專業人員的辛苦然後專業的外交人員真的非常重要不要一味的愁庸啊所以為什麼林昶佐是因為他名氣大所以社會輿論嘩然啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12012.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12031.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
可是這裡面有很多,也許他們有什麼名氣,大家不知道可是他的背景適合嗎?我剛剛講過啦,奧地利代表,音樂家就可以去派駐奧地利那台灣太多的音樂家啦,如果外交國防委員會就可以去當駐外大使那我們這邊一頭拉虎,都可以一個一個派啊,不合理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12036.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12044.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
外界自由公平 而且我覺得最重要的不要打擊我們專業外交人員的士氣請部長牢記這句話謝謝 委員 這列的名稱裡面好幾個都是職業外交官謝謝我剛才講的都不是職業外交官這個圖片裡面就有對 沒有錯 七個14個人裡面七個 我剛剛講 一半所以一半你覺得很高囉 不合理吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12065.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12076.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
謝謝王宏威的指請接下來由葉延之委員上台指請葉延之委員葉延之委員葉延之委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12078.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12093.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那已經登記執行委員的除不在場外經已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議由陳永康委員提出素面執行請列入登記並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12094.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12108.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那委員書面及口頭執行為其答覆部分或要求補充資料者請以兩週內以書面答詢那委員另約定其期限內從其所定 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12110.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12131.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
接下來我們進行開始討論事項討論事項第一案及第二案處理外交部主管預算凍結提出專案報告並經同意使得凍資第二案外交部剛才已作出專案報告請問各委員是否同意解凍好經同意凍資提落宴會 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12142.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12159.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
討論事項第三案 處理外交部主管預算凍結案中提出書面報告並經同意後 使得凍資共二十四案外交部以書面報告送交本會請問各位委員是否同意解凍經同意凍資 提報願會本人會議到此結束 上會 謝謝 |