| IVOD_ID |
16682 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16682 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2025051339 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-16T13:00:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-16T14:06:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:05:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db1097a25523ba703a2eb28a9b25c087c452bdb8234cc31cac997c82404cdc0ca35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-16T13:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意第三核能發電廠經通過整體安全評估後，恢復繼續運轉？」請公決案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:00:03 - 14:06:00 |
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好 謝謝大家那個本次黨團協商會議的主題是本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬拒公投提案為保障人民參政權您是否同意政府應於二年內於中華民國自由地區之各項選舉公投落實以轉投票制度法制化請公決案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
425.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
440.484 |
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本院於114年4月18日本院第11屆第三會議及第8次會議決議本案盡負二讀交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商那現在介紹在場的委員及行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
442.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
469.783 |
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機關列席的代表首先介紹民主進步黨的張宏祿委員中國國民黨的王宏威委員以及我們台灣民眾黨的劉書斌委員今天也感謝我們的行政機關有派代表來包括中央選舉委員會選務處王小林處長法政處蔡清告處長不好意思希望蔡處長不要介意 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
471.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
496.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
內政部的吳安堂常務次長吳堂安常務次長民政司的鄭英宏司長司法院司法行政訴訟及懲戒廳何孝剛法官以及我們的法務部廖江縣參事好那謝謝各位行政機關來列席的代表我們現在是不是因為發言前所以你如下每個黨團都發言每次我有發言的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
499.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
512.663 |
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我們希望能夠就大家檢要三分鐘為限我們先請提案的台灣民眾黨黨團代表發言我們後續再請其他的兩位黨團發言我們先請劉慧媛好 謝謝主席還有在場的官員跟其他兩黨的委員大家好本黨提出來的公投案最主要是基於憲法17條賦予公民的這樣的一個選舉罷免創制覆決的四個權 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
529.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
540.414 |
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那這個四個權之所以重要在於是最主要是民主的基礎那我們最重要的是在各國我們事實上每次投票的狀況都是大概有20幾%的選民是沒辦法因為他工作或者是求學甚至是因為治療因素他沒有辦法在當天到現場他的投票所他戶籍在地的投票所去做投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
559.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
583.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那這個地方在全世界各國都已經有了這種針對要把這公民參政權能夠落實所以都已經有了包括了是各種的這種移轉投票那這種不在籍的投票更是一個我們也都是已經在各國都實施包括我們現在看到的是在國外他們我們常熟悉像印尼菲律賓都可以移工到我們這邊來去做這個公民投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
583.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
590.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好那這個部分呢更重要的是在我們本國之內呢在85年的時候中選會呢也有針對選罷法這邊在研修這個專案小組的採取所謂不在籍投票這部分已經到現在85年到現在多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
601.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
603.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
已經114年了等於說是有30年的時間都沒有在進展那聯安政部也有在講所以他們最重要的理由是說要兼顧秘密投票跟社會責任的社會的信任度 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
617.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
633.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
但是這個部分我們這個信任度秘密投票這部分如果是在國內的本當日還有親自去投票的話這個部分應該不是問題信任度的部分的話就是在於說有人是當初這樣討論到是國外的尤其像台商他如果在各地特別是如果在中國的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
639.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
643.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他到時候去做這樣的投票是有疑慮的所以本黨最重要的是在討論說是要針對的是在國內的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
648.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
668.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
國內的轉移轉投票在他登記的如果做事前他去做一個登記的話他在他的工作實際上他住的這個地方去做這樣的一個登記之後他可以去做現場的投票這個部分在很多的做投開票所的工作人員事實上都已經做這個事情了這絕對不會是大問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
670.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
687.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
更重要的是應該要去注意到的這樣的問題就已經不會是大問題的時候不要再去找其他的理由而且這個地方當然有至少之前我們在做這個案的時候有執政黨的委員有提到說是不是應該要有其他的一個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
693.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
698.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
是不是你們這個是可以修法可是問題是大眾重要的是大民主已經30年你過去在民進黨在執政的時候2016年到2024年的這個情況之下8年期間你們執政了你們都沒有去做那就是你們當初在在野黨成為是在野黨的時候做這樣的事情你們都不做那現在就變得說我們就而且真的要開始要做的時候你們可能會一直在杯葛因此用最符合到民主進步黨所說的大民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
724.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
747.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這樣的情況下我們用直接民主的這種方式讓公民有這樣的機會來進行透過來約束到立法院必須要去尊重到直接民意的最高的這樣的一個意義存在著好 謝謝好 謝謝劉書斌委員我們補充介紹那到場的委員還有中國國民黨的羅志強委員那民主進步黨的王惠美委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
749.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
768.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
王美惠委員,不好意思,特辭跟王委員致歉,王美惠委員,我回家會複習十次好,那現在不曉得中國國民黨跟民主進步黨黨團哪一位委員要先代表發言好,那就請王洪威委員,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
771.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
785.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那先請教主席,我們是不是有三分鐘?是,有三分鐘的限制,是好,謝謝主席喔好,那我想就說最近大家也都知道那菲律賓呢,做他們的大選 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
786.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
814.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那在台灣菲律賓的移工也蠻多的所以呢過去其實有很多次大家都特別討論在台灣的東南亞的移工不管是菲律賓或者是印尼在他們國內有重大選舉的時候即便他們人不在國內也是一樣是可以投票的那也就是說他仍然可以去實行他的一個公民的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
815.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
819.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
但是在台灣事實上我們在這個不管選舉或公投投票事實上我們被限縮的不要說在海外的投票權我們事實上連在國內本身尤其每次到了選舉我們有一些的族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
832.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
855.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
事實上因為他們工作 特殊工作的性質沒有辦法進行投票這裡面譬如說過去我們常講的軍警還有像護理人員因為大家知道台灣的護理人員很忙他們根本有時候都在工作崗位上走不開所以其實長期以來就是應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
857.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
873.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
推行不再急投票那事實上是一直大家討論的議題那可能我想可能對民進黨團來說因為在上一次我看到也有很多民進黨團的立委也都有發表言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
875.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
889.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
說這個修法就好了不需要來做公投但是事實上我們現在立法院裡面有關於不在籍投票有沒有這個版本有的包含我個人都有提出版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
890.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
912.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那我们提出版本之后呢 其实尤其在海外投票的部分那很多就会给他赋予说 这个会使得中共可以来影响我们的投票那这当然就是针对广大的台商或者是在大陆工作 或者投资 或者就学的台胞 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
914.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
928.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以所謂的海外的投票權就會容易又染上政治甚至直接給你丟上猴帽子所以我覺得在這一次的我們的公投案裡面因為我們的修法事實上我要講的從 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
935.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
953.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個會期應該是這個屆一開始其實在立法院就有版本那與其這樣子推行其實非常非常的緩慢那我們也知道嘛其實民主我們在國會裡面我們是代議士那同樣的公投就是最直接的民主那我套一句賴總統所說的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
955.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
962.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
用更大的民主來決定我們公民投票的權利所以我想這也符合包含賴總統跟民進黨的同朋友們一個所謂的更大的民主的一個合法合理的一個程序所以對國民黨團來講我們支持這個公投案那也希望在國會裡面我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
984.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1001.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
跨黨派都能夠去支持用更大的民主來決定讓我們的公民來決定他們可以行使他們應有的權利 以上 謝謝好 非常感謝王洪維委員那請問民主進步黨黨團是不是請張宏祿委員代表發言來 請張委員好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1006.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1036.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
其實這個要移轉投票或不再集投票不再集投票裡面的裡面有包括移轉投票裡面是一種要修法也可以其實公投也是權利我們也不能說不行不過如果說就我們現在所說的這個公投的題目這樣子我覺得會有一點點問題為什麼第一個移轉投票台灣現在已經有實施了 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1037.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
1058.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
14個對象是什麼所有的在投開票所工作的工作人員他們每一次投開票所他們都已經有移轉投票了這是事實那再來如果說中華民國自由地區之各項選舉公投落實移轉投票法制化 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
1060.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
1082.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
以我辦過多次選舉的經驗,只要是縣市長、縣市議員那次的選舉因為選到代表村里長,你光印製選票,全台灣會有八千多張的選票為什麼?光村里長就七八千人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
1083.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
1111.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這樣子的話我們能不能夠有這個能量去印製這麼多的選票因為如果是照這個主文的話所有的選務工作必須要做到這些八千多張的選票我相信在台灣應該沒有辦法有這個能力去負擔啦所以我個人我是覺得說啦在現在的情況之下台灣如果真的要實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
1112.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
1140.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個移轉投票其實公投跟總統我認為是比較合適的你把所有的選舉都放進去我真的覺得村里長就沒有辦法而且以選務的經驗來講如果你把村里長放下去甚至代表議員就好了你在你移轉投票的地方那一張票了不起一張兩張不會超過很多張票 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
1141.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
1155.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那你有沒有投這一張票我跟你講馬上就可以看得出來了那你會造成很多選舉實務上的困擾這點我就不多說了困擾是什麼所以我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
1158.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
1179.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你要把所有的這些我認為是不可行那如果你不把村里長代表甚至縣市議員有的地區大概幾百票就選上了這些你不排除掉你就算這個公投過了我覺得好像執行非常困難以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
1182.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
1206.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好 謝謝張宏祿委員我先跟各位黨團的代表做一下報告我們目前協商的主題是針對這個公投提案我只針對這個公投提案至於說公投內容你要贊成還是反對這個是下一個階段的事情也就是說如果假設真的成案了以後交付公民投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
1207.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
1224.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
台灣的每一個公民每一個政黨都可以有自己他的看法譬如說我就反對移轉投票那你就大聲說我反對移轉投票這樣會造成選務困難投票秘密諸如此類的操作不下去整個會議癱瘓掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
1226.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
1254.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
反正台灣是一個民主多元的社會公共政策都可以拿出來辯論所以大家也夠可以說那我就是反對移轉投票在這個公投案我行使作為國家主任的權利我就是要投反對票那如果出來的結果是反對多於贊成那我們也必須要尊重這樣子的結果嘛所以我只是先跟各位黨團報告就是說今天協商的主題是說這件事情交付 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
1256.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
1271.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
讓全台灣的公民來做決定這一件事情大家贊成或不贊成那至於說你再不贊成移轉投票這件事情那個是第二個層次的問題等到真的成案的時候每一個公民每一個政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
1273.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1300.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
大家都可以有不同的看法立場跟意義一切甚至覺得這個公投的主文寫得不好其他的各個黨團要針對這個公投主文提出修正動議或再修正動議在我們最後表決之前大家通通都有這個機會我先跟大家做這樣的說明跟報告我有先徵詢一下就是到場的羅委員是不是要發言不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1302.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1317.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好 是 請既然看起來就沒有共識嘛那就叫院長協商或是進行下一個流程就好了那請問王委員有沒有意見沒有沒有嗎行政機關的代表有要講話嗎你希望講話是不是不用嘛因為看起來是兩個黨團贊成一個黨團不贊成嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1329.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1338.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那所以我們今天這個第一個主題的協商就沒有共識那我們接下來就交由院長協商或者是依照議事規則來加以處理謝謝各位黨團的代表好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1352.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1360.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們第二場協商是表定一點半是不是?不好意思我們先休息一下,下一場協商是一點半開始,謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1386.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1386.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
歡迎光臨 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1414.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1415.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
下面下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1461.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1463.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好啊,沒問題你待會兒給你水好啊,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1497.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1498.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這個沒了還有這個沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1534.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1549.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
對,對,對 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1571.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1572.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
嗨嗨 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1596.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1623.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1626.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1648.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1806.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1816.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我會到長篇,把我的立場再講一下三分鐘好不好?給一個人五分鐘,好不好?可以吧?我真的很快,我很快,我還沒交給人,沒關係好不好?你要通過人,你也可以有更多的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1833.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1835.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
謝謝各位來參加這場協商會議的各黨團的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1847.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1875.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那本次協商的主題是本院台灣民眾黨黨團拟據公投提案主文為您是否同意第三核能發電廠經過整體安全評估後恢復繼續應轉公決案本院經114年4月18日立法院第十一屆第三會議第八次院會決議交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商協商會議進行先介紹今天出席的委員級 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1877.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1902.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
機關代表首先介紹民主進步黨的莊瑞雄委員以及民主進步黨的許富軌委員還有中國國民黨的羅志強委員還有中國國民黨的鄭天才委員以及台灣民眾黨的張祺凱委員今天非常感謝經濟部何進昌政務次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1906.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1928.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
以及台灣電力股份有限公司王耀廷總經理徐永輝副總經理以及國家發展委員會產業發展處鄭永明前任基政劉穎潔專員核能安全委員會陳明珍主任委員張新富主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1929.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1951.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
還有核能管制處高斌組長、核物料管制組陳文謙組長、中央選舉委員會選務處王曉琳組長以及法政處蔡京告組長好 謝謝我們今天是不是首先請提案的黨團代表張祺凱、張維園我們那個因為這個是黨團協商這個不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1958.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1972.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那個要來吵架的就各個黨團把立場說明清楚就好了當然希望有共識沒有共識我們也是尊重各黨團各自的立場表達那所以我們每位委員發言的時間限時五分鐘好那我們先請張淇凱委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1977.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1991.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
謝謝主席今天這個研議核三的公投非常重要因為這個禮拜六我們台灣就進入聯合非核的這個時代了那這個禮拜二 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1991.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2007.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
台灣民眾黨有跟這個國民黨有特別提出了這個核管法的修正也三讀通過了大家有看到包括商總跟工總很多企業界人士都出來呼籲說應該盡快再重啟核電要趕快重啟核電那事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2011.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2035.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這是核管法的修正 修正完之後 只是把法律的障礙把它拿掉 就像孫悟空啊那個緊箍咒 先拿掉可是到底要不要重啟核電 或者研議核電啊主要鑰匙 這把鑰匙要不要開 還是在民進黨的手裡就是台電到底要不要申請 核安會到時候審查會不會過也就是說 賴清德總統到底要不要點頭這老講 以後的 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2038.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2053.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
責任跟權責就純乎賴清德總統一念之間我們就等著看台電到底會不會提出申請另外我們發現它的法律的強制性不過強我們研究之後發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2055.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2079.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
如果透過公投是一個更合適的一個方法所以雙管齊下台灣民眾黨提出了公投的這個公投由全民來做決定那公投法是有強制性的通過之後呢政府機關就有義務必須要遵守所以我們提出了這個核三的這個公投事實上大家這幾天可能都碰到很多國外的媒體來採訪也看到很多的這個報導發現說我們回到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2084.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2089.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
核電完全沒有的狀況之下台灣的電就會發電成本會提高所以變貴了也變髒了因為它天然氣的發電跟煤炭這個發電加起來會高達高達所有我們發電的84%到85% |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2102.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2113.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那事實上全世界的潮流都是慢慢在返回核能在用核能然後呢在這個天然氣燃氣跟這個燃煤它都是大幅在降低了包括我們最主要的競爭對手南韓南韓現在的用核電是30.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2120.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2144.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
他的化石燃料就是用天然氣跟這個燃煤大概只有六成左右而且他們這個化石的燃料還慢慢在降低當中日本目前是8%的核電他們已經宣布了要快速的恢復到20%那目前他們這個化石這個天然氣跟燃煤大概也是六成左右他們也要適度的降低他們甚至提出來一個很重要的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2145.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2162.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
會造成污染跟空污的天然氣跟燃煤他們要大幅降低到30到40%從60一下子大幅的這個降低那前幾天大家已經有看到了連川普都喊出來說他要讓美國的核能再度偉大所以他們的核電 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2163.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2179.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
要快速擴張要增加四倍所以我們在核電廠被關掉之後你發現跟世界這個潮流是對撞的而且台灣民眾黨是一個理性務實科學的政黨我們還特別做了這個民調很清楚的民調裡面發現從各個年齡層還有各個教育別 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2184.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2205.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
都是支持要重啟核電的所以我們提出了非常具體的提出來你是否同意第三核電廠經過整體安全評估之後繼續運轉我要特別強調在核工法通過之後只是拿掉法律的這個障礙要不要用核電 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2206.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2218.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
還是在民進黨執政黨的手上第二個 現在我們直接由民眾來做一個決定河山廠到底要不要繼續運作重啟運作交給全民來做一個公決 謝謝好 謝謝張祺凱委員我們現在接下來請莊瑞雄莊委員謝謝主席剛聆聽了張祺凱委員的一席話我還是覺得你要是要用搞不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2235.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2255.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
傲慢 而且非常粗暴法律通過了以後那當然後面怎麼做行政部門依法行政公投通過以後當然他必須要拘束力這個是非常清楚的可是重點就是說你剛那個講法就是叫別人的兒子死不了政客你能當立委當多久你憑什麼要把河山重啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2263.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2270.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
你如果說要仿效歐美國家川普說要讓核能再偉大要多偉大要四倍要幾倍啊跟我核三什麼關係跟核三要重啟什麼關係你那麼愛川普你叫美國多蓋一點啊跟核三重啟什麼關係呢核三貢獻台灣四十年喔四十年喔有九倍有九倍因為你沒住在這裡嘛你住在這裡你不會說這個屁話嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2293.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2296.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
就這麼簡單嘛 你說如果安全 核廢料有辦法處理這個都是一個理性的議題 大家可以來討論啦那你要處 面臨的剩下幾天 要處理你不要說 我們來做一個公投 做個過後 核酸你就必須要繼續運轉下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2313.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2327.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
誰賦予你這麼大的權力啊你如果說今天公投的是說台灣要不要繼續使用核能要在哪裡可以討論喔要在哪裡可以討論喔你這個老人家死不了你以為你很大當了立委 屏東人就是次等國民照你的看法 照你的想法裡面我告訴你你跟當年的黃國昌委員講的就完全不一樣當年黃國昌委員講的是說藍與黑的人是違規的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2342.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2345.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
蘭嶼已經放了43年了 照你張吉凱的想法 你要死好啊本地人應該放你那些阿當幫那些人河山本來就蓋在你屏東啦 屏東你死好啦繼續放在那個地方才不會有危險的 不要搬到別的地方 別的縣市來啊你們那個想法都是高人一等的想法 這個很糟糕啊我舉一個例子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
2363.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
2370.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
2018年我們在反核實那個食安反核實的一個公投的時候那個時候連署人數49萬361人不合格多少你知道嗎是7萬8479人也包括死亡連署1萬1534人我現在不針對這一次的什麼罷免不是我說當年偽造就7萬2810人 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
2388.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
2394.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
大家為了一個食安 國民黨為了一個食安他就去偽造出這麼多的一個連署出來為了反核食喔 好啦為了一個食品的一個安全 反核食你就不惜去這樣子去偽造那麼多還為了一個大目標啊你這不是的 你今天這不是的你今天核安你這個整個都不顧了那核廢料你怎麼處理 你們也沒講啊你真的以為 核酸那麼安全嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
2419.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
2422.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
你隨便去google一下你都知道河山廠就是在斷層帶啦剛好都沒有發生你們就認為很安全啦那對屏東人來講會覺得說 啊不好家宅好家宅沒發生啊你現在就認為說 嗯啊就沒發生就好啊萬一發生了 萬一你的事情繼續這樣這個不通啦那你在一個斷層帶裡面到底安不安全 要重新再去檢討啦核廢料到底有沒有辦法解決 也沒辦法你也沒辦法去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
2449.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
2452.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
所以呢你這個到底學者專家提出來的怎麼都只有我看得見你們會看不見這個社會這樣已經吵過多少次河山再斷成帶了好不容易判來40年為國家貢獻了可以讓他出獄了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
2467.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
2471.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
他在國家公園的旁邊 你有去過嗎 南湾去兩顆地那裡你也問一下良心的 這如果把你通過了 你長期來領先 我會說你一輩子有屏東人來陪我啦 我不跟你騙啦我講這個都很正常 沒有什麼情緒啦 只是說你不把屏東人當人啦你甚至沒有把那個蘭嶼的人當人啦 你都認為存在啦危險就是你們這些人繼續承擔 你們的想法就這麼簡單嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
2493.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
2507.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那你認為說這個核電會比較便宜一點再來把它重啟把它打開就好了讓它繼續把它延續我們公投過了以後政府就有這樣的一個責任你們看到的都是很多都是蓋新廠啦我來舉很多幾樣就好你說核電原液可以換來更便宜的電價 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
2517.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
2520.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這都是政客在騙老百姓的話術啦你研議需要的安全強化的投資未來反應能除以拆遷的費用跟高低階核廢料最終處置都是轉嫁到全體納稅人的一個負擔主席都有在兩個把它講完 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
2535.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
2540.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
好 沒有問題 再給莊委員兩分鐘 請繼續你像譬如說我舉的一個例子啦就是美國佛羅里達州的水晶的一個核電廠1968年動工1977年併網本來運轉到2013年2008年的時候他那個電廠向核管會提出研議的申請 進行更新的程序工程中出現問題 預計恢復成本超過30億美金最終 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
2564.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
2571.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
放棄研議 提前停機2013年啟動為60年的除疫程序這是第一行 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
2572.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
2578.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
第二個還是你最喜歡的美國加州聖歐諾佛瑞核電廠分隊2013年的期間結果呢2001年你耗資6.7億美金差不多215億然後進行蒸汽機的一個更新在2011年完工本來預計延續20年結果呢更新過程裡面發生的冷水管線的洩漏的問題不得不在2012年停機2013年也是一樣有個廚藝 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
2602.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
2613.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以從簡單兩個例子 我不相信你沒看過這兩個例子也就是說 研議不是萬能啦不是說時間到了以後 檢查之後就要研議靠 這麼簡單還是要回復到 我必須要講的你核廢料怎麼處理你核一核二 你為什麼不敢把這個題目放是核一跟核二你為什麼專門挑核三你看我們平常都沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
2630.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
2636.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
你一剖新北市的人的臉頰嘛就這麼簡單嘛 人多嘛你不敢擔這個政治風險嘛我再次講你就是欺負我屏東嘛你憑什麼 你憑什麼你能當多久的立法委員 你憑什麼嘛敢提這個案子就不怕我質疑你嘛你愛怎麼講你等一下請環國常委員跟你講嘛你就告訴我啊 為什麼你不合一合二你要給我挑河山啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
2658.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
2662.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
就這麼簡單啊 你就看平常人弄嘛河山大家都很清楚是在斷層帶啊你難道不知道河山整個整個蓄水池裡面已經要裝滿了嗎河味料你放哪裡 你沒講啊你要河味料儲存在什麼地方嘛所以喔 你河山你再把它延育十年 二十年喔騙人的啦 你就沒地方人放啦我最後又要強調啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
2687.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
2690.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我們1982年喔 開始把那個低階的核廢料那十萬桶 把人家放在蘭嶼 放了就43年放了43年每一個政府都想說想處理啊沒有能力處理啊海拋嗎 不敢啊運到別的國家去嗎 沒人買啊放到別的地方 因為 因為張興源你沒有根啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
2715.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
2718.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
沒有人知道你是屬於哪一縣市的人啊在台北你說你是台北人要選舉你說你是嘉義的人兩個地方你都不敢放啊你就把人家走西北都去北京這樣就好啊還是要負責任啊要有一點人道的靈敏啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
2736.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
2739.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
屏東河山場真的貢獻了40年你不要再告訴我什麼鄉鎮長什麼那個叫做老百姓的共識屏東人沒有人跟你有共識你去問到的是鎮長他們要的是補貼我告訴你你問到的那個鎮長如果敢再跳出來挺你我馬上罷免他什麼那叫做恆春人的共識那叫屏東人的共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
2764.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
2783.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
是你政客的話術說謊這個叫說謊我今天講的都沒有人身攻擊我今天講的是 宇眾心腸要跟你講所有的外地人我們不要認為說我們有共識所以要把這樣的一個不利益這樣的一個危險放在哪一個地方我們沒這麼大的權利我再舉一個無害的給你聽讓你好好的反省 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
2792.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
2801.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
北投 關渡公園我以前在那邊當台北市議員關渡平原要不要開發你如果問關渡平原那裡人家99%說要開發你如果問全北投才會剩下68%要開發如果問全台北市他告訴你不能開發那是台北市的費不到30%的人說要開發你知道嗎這個議題剛好相反你如果去問恆春 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
2822.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
2828.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
你真的以為我們屏東人都是白癡我們喜歡核電廠我們喜歡擁抱核廢料你是在說什麼瘋子你不敢挑戰別的縣市你不敢挑戰新北不敢挑戰河一河二你設定叫做河山公投我當然也跟你們台灣民眾黨拚命謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
2846.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
2865.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
好謝謝莊惠雄委員那個中國國民黨那個政委員天才要代表中國國民黨發言嗎這個河山場研議這個部分跟這個蘭嶼核廢料沒有關係這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
2869.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
2893.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
无论是核一核二核三甚至已经花了非常多的钱然后后来停摆的核四当时的规划都是要把核废料放在原地这第一个所以跟这个蓝银没有关系这第一个第二个就是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
2896.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
2899.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這個不是只有鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
2916.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
2942.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以我簡單講是說這個部分是這樣所以不是只有鎮長支持因為這個滿州鄉也是我的省區啦他們也是支持的所以這個部分所以這是我所聽到的這是我聽到的是這樣所以公投嘛所以就公投嘛以上謝謝好謝謝喔好那請徐委員覆軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
2946.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
2963.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
很遺憾剛剛聽到我們民眾黨的委員跟國民黨的委員講這個話實在是讓人家很痛徹心扉我想民國90年我就在恆春當任記者的工作那當時台灣史上最嚴重的核子事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
2964.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
2988.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
就發生在河山場當時不但電廠全黑反應爐的冷卻設施喪失動力差點造成大量的輻射外洩我想當時那時候真的是人心恐慌和恐懼那所以我想這個包含莊委員一號我們莊委員一號我們三個屏東的委員我們都很清楚知道過去為什麼河山場會被叫做恆春山會不是沒道理的我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
2990.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3013.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
上個禮拜 前幾天 這個禮拜二我想這個藍白藉由強行暴力通過這樣的一個法令我想我們還是要強調這個在核安潛艇跟核廢料的處理上面跟社會共識三個潛艇沒有達成一個共識 我們是堅決反對到底那尤其這個核能運轉 這個核三長已經運轉了40年 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3016.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3027.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
確實這個相關的設備老舊甚至這個整個結構性的檢查都必須要再重啟這個真的不需要花多少錢跟花多少時間真的要慎善來評估那第二個我講的整個核廢熱的處理剛剛莊委員講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3030.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3046.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
不要說高階現在連第一階的廢料都因為這樣子沒辦法處理我想這不只是只有河山廠合一合二也是問題重重那為什麼我們要我們要犧牲我們的河山廠機區你們都不敢說合一合二包含我們現在的主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3047.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3065.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
黃國昌委員你在擔任時代力量主席的時候時代力量立委的時候你講的我想這個歷史都有記錄從2016年到2019年包含現在你們的主席貴黨的主席柯文哲他還曾經擔任過這個核電反核貪腐大隊的領隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3066.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3094.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我想他也是反對到底你知道你們這個論調是怎麼樣時空背景不一樣 為了不一樣的論調那我想現在你們要提出一個空殼的一個公投不只要燒錢而且我想這樣子的一個公投不是萬靈丹也不能改變這樣一個現狀我想包含我們的賴總統跟左院長都很清楚說明了即使未來我們河山場目前就是沒有研議沒有重啟的一個必要性我想這一點也是我們的堅持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3097.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3121.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
好 謝謝許副委員我們補充介紹到場的有民主進步黨的鍾嘉斌委員鍾委員舉手表示要發言現在有請鍾委員好 謝謝主席在場各政黨協商代表我想這是由民眾黨來提出的一個公投案首先我們就三個部分來談第一個就是說這個公投案的定位 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3122.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3136.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
他是是不是確認一下是不是屬於公投法第二條第二項第三款重大政策之創之覆決那如果是的話那我們就來看現在是根據公投法第15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3138.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3155.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那麼立法院對於第二條第二項第三款之事項任有提出公民投票之必要呢他可以附具主文理由書啊經立法院院會通過那目前我們今天協調的政黨協商的目的就是要將這個案子經過協商之後呢看是不是要交付院會來通過之後那麼交付公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3158.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3173.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那我想這個部分要程序上的問題就是說這一個公投的效力是什麼它是公投法第二條第二項第三款重大政策那我們開始來進入了第二部分了那如果它是這樣子的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3175.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3203.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
他這裡的效果我們都知道 成如剛剛許委員所說的我跟莊委員跟許委員包括民進黨全體黨團成員我們都非常的痛心因為就在不久之前藍白霞國會辦的些微優勢就通過了核管法那核管法經過通過之後本來就不管是核一核二核三都需要依核管法的規定他如果要 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3204.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3231.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
恢復運轉要恢復運轉那麼它要經過什麼樣的程序那既然都已經核管法三讀了那接下來為什麼這個公投的這個主要對象是限定是核三廠這也為什麼說明了今天我們屏東的三位委員都坐在這裡因為核三廠就在屏東啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3232.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3257.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
核官法通過的適用對象是核一核二核三那根據核官法如果民眾黨有任何意見可以根據核官法去提出要求對行政院提出要求根據核官法在未來發布通過實施之後那麼去做一些必要的程序現在要透過全國公民的公民投票來針對子民核三廠要優先恢復繼續運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3261.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3284.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
好 那接下來呢 這樣強烈的針對性我想在場我想不只是屏東的鄉親不服屏東選出的立委不服我想全國的民眾也會很奇怪這是不是一個公投的霸凌明明根據藍白通過的核管法核一核二核三都可以在核管法修正後去申請恢復運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3287.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3288.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
就是說恢復運展那樣的情況那為什麼要針對河山廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3293.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3322.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
坐落在屏東的核產黨來進行全國的公投是不是要挾全國的公民多數來霸凌屏東少數的民意這一點我們是嚴正的抗議我想不只我們三位屏東委員不能接受民進黨黨團也不能接受那第三個呢是要對於民眾黨提出的這個公投的主文呢做一些文藝上的確認恢復跟繼續是兩件不同的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3324.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
3347.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
繼續運轉就是到5月17號之前如果是河山廠的話就都不要停叫做繼續運轉繼續運轉就是現在開始走請你繼續下去無論我們現在的開會繼續開會就是沒有間斷的叫繼續開會恢復就是停止後重新啟動那到底河山廠現在這個主文是要恢復 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
3349.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
3369.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
假設在公投之後 停了之後再來恢復還是你希望在他5月17號之前沒有停止就持續的繼續運轉如果是後者的話 緩不濟急嘛縱使這個公投組 這樣的一個公投的院會假設在日後的院會通過要進行公投也是今年8月23號以後的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
3371.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
3398.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
屆時核三廠是持續在運轉中所以要繼續運轉嗎還是屆時就算那個公投通過了核三廠是處在一個停止運轉要恢復運轉的狀態那為什麼一個公投主文會出現這樣的文藝上的前後矛盾到底是恢復運轉還是繼續運轉說清楚講明白如果是恢復運轉那核一現在停了也可以恢復啊核二停了未來你要透過公投恢復也可以啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
3399.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
3413.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
河山未來停了你要再恢復你公投過了也可以啊但是顯然的這個提案我要回過來第二點講就擺明的是衝著河山廠來的因為當這樣的一個提案提出的時候就只有河山廠持續在運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
3414.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
3428.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
也就是因為合唱的習慣運作這個公投主文才會變成是恢復或持續運轉最後我要說明這個矛盾清楚再給一點時間就是因為在為什麼這個公投主文這麼關鍵的重要因為根據公投法第15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
3430.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
3452.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
只要是根據15條第二項立法院用第二條第二項第三款通過的他後半段有發現了一些問題首先他不是用第17條第一項第三款第19條的規定什麼是第17條第一項第三款呢第17條第一項公投法第17條第一項第三款是說政府機關針對公民投票案提出自意見書好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
3454.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
3480.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
表示這個案子未來不會有政府部門的提出意見書如果一旦立法院通過之後這個公投主文是行政院政府機關是不會有意見書的現在在場我們做的包括經濟部的次長台電公司的總經理他們作為核能的主管機關電廠的主管機關或是事業的運轉者他們是沒辦法提出意見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
3481.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
3495.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那麼這種情況之下這樣的公投它具有什麼樣的一個社會正當性更何況在同法第15條第二項的中間那一段不是用第9條至第13條公投法的第9條至第13條它講的是什麼所有的民間發起的公投主文都要送到選委會選務機關去做相關事項的審查跟規範換言之這樣的一個恢復繼續運轉這樣的前後矛盾語意不通的主文 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
3512.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
3541.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
是在一個沒有辦法適用第12條對不起喔從第9條到第13條這些中選會作為公民投票主管機關他得以參與去幫忙審視的換言之這麼一個荒唐可笑的公投案的主文啦前後矛盾的主文呢就會假如通過的話就莫名其妙的跑到8月23號交給全國的公民來決定要不要對屏東的河山場對屏東做霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
3543.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
3553.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
這樣的一個提案本席或者本黨團我們的三位齊齊以為不可我們希望民眾黨懸崖勒馬不要再鬧笑話了 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
3558.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
3580.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
謝謝,跟各個黨團的代表簡單說明一下大家都有各自不同的政策立場,都尊重我一開始在主持協商的時候,我就說了就讓各個黨團表達各個黨團基本上面的立場,跟大家的理由剛剛大家發言的時候,我也沒有做任何的中斷或者是任何的評論因為這個是處於在協商的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
3584.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
3597.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
如果對於公民投票這樣的意思或者是認為主文有什麼樣子的寶貴的建議那接下來大家都可以透過體修正統議或者是再修正統議來加以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
3598.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
3620.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
至於說這樣子的公民投票到底是採取贊成的立場還是反對的立場每一個台灣人都是國家的主人到公投的時候大家都可以有自己自由意志的表達加入人民來加以做決定我想這個應該是一個最基本的道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
3622.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
3635.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
因為現在三個黨團都已經表達完了立場,顯然是沒有共識今天我吵到半夜也不會有共識,但是剛剛莊惠雄委員有舉手說他希望再爭取發言一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
3637.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
3648.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
好 那是莊委員跟張委員都各一分鐘來 現在先有請莊銳雄委員謝謝主席這個恩賜的一分鐘我先糾正一下啦剛鄭店長委員講錯了不要講蘭嶼跟什麼河山沒有關係啦蘭嶼的河 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
3654.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
3658.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
核廢料不會是憑空出來的我告訴你核一貢獻42028桶核二廠貢獻37488桶核三廠也貢獻了將近7000桶不要講說沒關係第二個你都聽到滿洲的人講的我在跟你講恆春半島裡面你認識幾個你跟我講到滿洲去我建議這個如果你可以修 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
3679.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
3686.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我絕對尊重剛主席講的說公投是人民意志的一個展現我絕對完全贊成但是我們不能亂設計你說設計這個河山要你把它重啟的話你要設計這個這樣子我反對你如果把它設計到最後說如果公投案這個成案了以後同意票最多的縣市來安置核廢料廠我贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
3704.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
3708.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
把這個放進去的話就變成是說老百姓的爭議就出來了這個才叫做展現公投的意志你告訴他說台北市你全部贊成台北市你會分到很多核廢料喔新北市你也贊成河山重啟你也會分到很多核廢料這樣民意就展現了嘛好不好不要吵那麼久嘛那個題目再修正一下嘛 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
3727.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
3733.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
好 謝謝莊委員 請張吉凱委員水泳啊 很好啊 你有提出新的意見你們自己也可以提案或者提修正嘛這很好 對對對 很好我也要跟你說 前民進黨的朋友們要看一下這個條文眼睛要張開啦 這條文裡面是否同意河山廠要經過整體的安全評估以後啊 一定 一定是安全評估嘛說實在 我們生命共同體怎麼可能說屏東不安全 全台灣安全咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
3756.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
3774.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
今天那個核安會的專家都在這邊啊沒有經過安全評估核三省有可能重啟嗎請不要危言聳聽安全評估一下核一核二我跟你在講核廢料 你在講什麼鬼東西啊你也可以安全的先固定 先確定第二個 第二個來 講出來張氣凱委員 張氣凱委員請你尊重我的會議主持我已經先插入了 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
3781.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
3795.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我想要跟各位委員講的事情是剛剛大家講話有些交鋒有些情緒都沒有關係但我希望在場的委員你們在講話的時候別人沒有插嘴換別人講話的時候就讓人家講 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
3797.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
3798.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
其實我們經濟委員會去考察河山省的時候你也有去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
3817.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
3833.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
當天四個鄉鎮市的不是只有恆春的鎮長附近四個縣市的鄉鎮長都有來很多的民意代表也都來附近的村民長也都來他們都明確表達他們贊成河山廠重新啟動或者研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
3834.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
3856.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
所以我覺得今天很好今天三位這個屏東的立委有來啦可是你們要尊重一下四個鄉鎮的鄉鎮長跟他們的這個名義那天是有很多的村里長都是有來的所以我重複一下我強調一下另外我強調一個點很重要啦公投 民進黨是靠公投起家的我建議你們不要汙名化公投不要汙名化公投我列一段文字給大家聽啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
3858.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
3870.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
說這段話叫做國民黨重新執政以後除了美牛公投連署不成外人民速度去提這個連署要求X法去要公投可是那時候被公投審議委員會給它駁回了他說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
3875.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
3885.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
公審會是依照公投法成立的這是公投法裡面最荒謬的設計籠罩著威權者去操弄公投讓公投沒辦法成案所以民進黨主張把那個委員會把它廢除掉這是鄭麗菁的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
3891.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
3919.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
後來民進黨主張所以把公投法審議委員會也刪掉了民進黨是靠公投起家的他們還把公投審議委員會把它砍掉了結果今天一路上他們都在講公投是多麼恐怖不讓人民公投我記得這樣說不過去所以第一個請尊重憲法上給予人民的權利請尊重公投的這個權利第二個我剛才講了我們尊重三位屏東立委對屏東他自己的一個看法可是我也提醒你們我們到實地去考察確實附近的四個鄉鎮從鎮長 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
3921.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
3936.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
就是鄉鎮長一直到民意代表到村里長還有很多民眾都是支持河山市要嚴厲的好 謝謝各位黨團的代表大家都已經發言了那我不曉得那個今天行政機關的代表有沒有特別想講話的有的話請舉手好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
3938.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
3956.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
好 如果行政機關的代表有沒有特別要發表意見的話那報告黨團協商會今天我們沒有辦法達成共識本案保留我們後續依照立法院職權刑事法第十二章相關的規定處理協商會議結束謝謝大家 散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
3968.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
3969.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
喔 雞蛋 |