| IVOD_ID |
166808 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166808 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-05T11:55:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-05T12:06:08+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c294bbfbc570b58dd063c929bbfb1ae3011a53eea80ce16c8636dcd6d4218d921e6da3feca83ab35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李昆澤 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:55:18 - 12:06:08 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、交通部、國防部、法務部、司法院、勞動部及行政院主計總處就「公告修正《政府採購法》，以求精進政府採購效率、提高重大工程進度品質、堵絕惡質廠商投標可能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查(一)委員黃捷等17人擬具「政府採購法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條、第九十四條及第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員賴士葆等20人、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人及(六)委員賴瑞隆等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十四條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「政府採購法第九十四條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員萬美玲等21人、(九)委員游顥等23人、(十)委員羅廷瑋等16人、(十一)委員林倩綺等24人、(十二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(十三)委員馬文君等16人、(十四)委員羅智強等17人、(十五)委員翁曉玲等17人及(十六)委員黃健豪等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員許智傑等17人擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條、第一百零二條及第一百零三條條文修正草案」案、(十八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等20人及(二十)委員魯明哲等16人分別擬具「政府採購法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。
【本次會議僅進行詢答】
【1月5日及8日二天一次會】） |
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陳主委陳主委請委員長主委好有關於公共採購它的流標清洗是非常的嚴重如果是單單以公共工程的部分來說我們看到新北市環狀線環東段就已經流標了五次 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
48.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
而且我們看到國道1號甲線它的新建工程也流標了4次如果我們以歷年的流標的總建數跟總金額來看其實情形也是非常的嚴重那對國家整體的進步發展其實是衝擊它應該有的基礎那我們看到2023年449件金額達到1512億 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
80.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那2025年1月到11月因為這種巨額採購減少只有這個流標金額是只有170而已但是他的件數卻是達到483件主委你簡單說明一下你認為這些流標的主要原因是什麼其中我們剛才有說明的就是因為第一次開標未滿三家佔了七成 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
82.253 |
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107.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這是一個原因那其他的呢其他的當然包括設計或預算那麼供期等等那以致沒有人要去投標也是原因主委剛才提到相關的這個未打三家的這樣一個狀況其實他部分的原因是來自於國際原物料跟人力成本持續的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
135.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
導致這種價金不符的狀況所以廠商的投標意願也低這也是一個不爭的事實另外這種國際原物料的價格波動也過大造成我們的調整機制因應不及這也是投標意願低落的一個原因另外就是原物料跟人力的缺乏造成這種已經是一個整體性的問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
137.358 |
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142.707 |
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這都是流標的一個原因那我們針對這樣的一個流標的狀況我們是不是針對這種流標過或者是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
149.045 |
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178.044 |
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巨大金額一定金額以上或者是有這種重要的需求的這種採購或者是公共工程我們是不是會事先跟廠商大家來開一個公開的會議來瞭解相關的狀況來進行以後的這種招標是否比較能夠順利的推動採購跟公共工程有一定金額以上的採購本來就要對外說明然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
179.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
195.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個設計機關他還沒去巡駕那通常我了解現在機關通常在預算裡面就會編物條的金額在裡面了就是說我這個工程我多少錢 其中項目已經有預留大概將來物條要留多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
197.205 |
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221.777 |
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已經在那邊等著物調了工程會現在是有一些基本的因應的做法但是我認為還是要更積極因為我們看到流標的建樹跟金額實在是我們對於國家未來整體的發展也深深的擔憂另外我們對於工程品質的缺失當然我們目前是採取祭典的一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
222.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
245.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那本次工程會也預計有提出採購法101跟103條的這種修法那就針對違規的業者禁止投標的限制那但是公共工程的安全並不是在於違法的之後的一些禁止更重要的是事前的預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
246.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
265.583 |
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如果說尤其是事前有發生問題但是卻屢屢沒有做一個完整改善的業者也應該給予相關的規範來督促他進行改善才能避免這種事故的一再的發生那公共工程的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
267.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
291.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
缺失的記點機制我們來看歷年扣點的案件數以及該年度扣點案件的超過三件的一個業者這個主委你就來做一個參考另外我們扣點案件的這種平均扣點數也是逐年的增加2019年的時候是1.78點那2024年已經升到2.34點 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
296.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
314.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那主委我們必須要來探討工程品質差和缺失它有扣點的這種懲罰性的違約金那以工程類來說它主要分成四個級距這四個級距主委也非常的清楚那我們現在要面對的問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
316.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
342.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
工程會有做統計平均每個被查核到的違規案件中被扣點大概二至三分整體大概是2.34分的一個平均那被查到可能造成職安風險的這樣缺失的比例因為查核率大概是10%這還是過去我要求至少要10%以上主委這個10%會不會太少還是會再做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
345.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
360.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
跟委員報告我們也思考這些公安職安的問題那我們有另外一個思考是希望在設計施工設計階段就來就把這些問題能夠納入我們希望說將來這個施工的團隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
364.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
389.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那麼有比較詳細的施工途說就是人力規劃或者是一些必要的安全措施都能夠納入甚至整個施工的標準程序這些工程會都希望透過相關企業範本或施工規範來拘束採購端政府機關能夠在他的企業範本或者是施工的時候就對廠商做要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
390.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
410.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那從這一部分來源頭來防渡這些公安的問題不只是從這些制度來處理相關的防範公安的問題主委我們現在更進一步來討論這種工程品質缺失的祭典機制就是說一整年下來依照金額的不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
411.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
428.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那有缺失的大概是會被罰三千到兩萬四千元不等的這些罰款那以最高兩億元的工程目前是罰兩萬四千元主委認為這樣的金額兩億元的這樣的一個工程確實罰到 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
435.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
441.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
兩萬四千元你認為這樣的機制有辦法去促進公共工程的安全改善嗎我請那個處長來來 處長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
469.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
謝謝委員的垂詢那大金的罰的點數跟金額當然目前看起來是比較少那當然這個我們可以來研議看看要罰多少錢可以達到一些警示或嚇阻的一個方式我們的祭典制度跟這種罰款在內的管理機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
494.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
有沒有什麼可以改善你認為必須來做一個檢討你認為要做怎樣的檢討跟調整基本上對比較高風險像防墜落的這些我們當然目前查的是加重扣點那金額部分當然是依照企業來罰錢那企業金額的部分我們可以來嚴厲辦理以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
495.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我是建議罰款金額的基礎必須要來做調整就是說每一點的懲罰性的違約金除了採購金額的急劇的調整這個基礎之外也要依照過往廠商違規的紀錄來建立一個調整的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
516.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
另外就是懲罰性違約金依照該年度的違規狀況我們要來建立累進的機制來 諸葛你說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
527.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
551.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我想這個主要是讓這個比較不好的廠商他經常違規或者是有公安問題的讓他更困難進入公共工程的市場那如果好的廠商重視的讓他比較容易得標公共工程所以這裡面的關於評選的方式或者是加分減分的方式那讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
553.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
573.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
投身公共工程的廠商他能夠自己有個考量他有缺失但是他做一個完整的改善罰這些錢他不在意的就是你的這個金額過少但是2億你如果罰了1000已經很高了但是不可能罰到那麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
576.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
598.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
他的罰款不高所以他沒有 他不在意這些是在意他以後永續能不能繼續在公共工程裡面生存或者是他能不能出場要做說明 做補充我來補充就是說我目前這個查核它是一個基本的花線缺失所以給他划多少錢基本上回到合約或者是行政法 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
599.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
619.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他這個缺失回到合約如果說他有造成其他損害的話並不是說只能划這個還是可以划他造成的損害啦所以他重點是回到合約那當然基本的這一個划的這個點數啊我們是可以來這個再重新來研議看看能不能提高重新的研議跟檢討主委因為時間的關係啊我必須說我們針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
623.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
648.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
公共採購及公共工程流標的這種情形的嚴重的確是對國家整體的發展跟進步造成衝擊這個必須請主委提出更有效的一個政策那相關的這種違規的缺失祭典的制度也必須來做檢討讓整個公共工程的品質能夠具體的一個保障以上好謝謝 |