| IVOD_ID |
166785 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166785 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-05T10:32:25+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-05T10:44:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:38 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c294bbfbc570b587041763b38f1d6343011a53eea80ce16aea507db77ca6918a2f0af228fb527a05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林俊憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:32:25 - 10:44:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、交通部、國防部、法務部、司法院、勞動部及行政院主計總處就「公告修正《政府採購法》，以求精進政府採購效率、提高重大工程進度品質、堵絕惡質廠商投標可能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查(一)委員黃捷等17人擬具「政府採購法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條、第九十四條及第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員賴士葆等20人、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人及(六)委員賴瑞隆等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十四條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「政府採購法第九十四條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員萬美玲等21人、(九)委員游顥等23人、(十)委員羅廷瑋等16人、(十一)委員林倩綺等24人、(十二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(十三)委員馬文君等16人、(十四)委員羅智強等17人、(十五)委員翁曉玲等17人及(十六)委員黃健豪等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員許智傑等17人擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條、第一百零二條及第一百零三條條文修正草案」案、(十八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等20人及(二十)委員魯明哲等16人分別擬具「政府採購法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。
【本次會議僅進行詢答】
【1月5日及8日二天一次會】） |
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好 感謝主席本時邀請我們工程會的陳主委來 陳主委請委員長主委早主委我今天跟你探討一個很多人都擔心的問題就是我們政府的工不服務我們當然需要人才但是現在欠很多人 |
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現在有專業的工程方面的人才他不願意到政府部門來有可能牽掛這個、這兩天你要看考選部也發現了這個問題所以考試院考選部也提出一個警告你要看我們最近各課 |
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對於2022年開始土木工程類缺用情形2022年還沒有缺額再來23年欠135個到今年欠240個那政府部門如果沒有這些專業的公務人員來執行土木工程的相關業務那這樣當然拼盡我們就會反落下 |
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人家要先探討為什麼臨時不該來,當然有幾個原因,我們剛才說的,可能是工作多、接臨時,或是說,如果扣掉技術的資料,或是說民間部門有更好的工作可以開在等人,那他們可能就會選擇民間部門,第一個啦, |
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考選部的分析 讓你做參考我相信柯慶英這個主流不知道是否合理我沒有跟你們討論過兩次我知道 就三個幾個部門嘛考選部 權需部 還有我們工程會大家有來開會說這問題要怎麼解決有幾種嘛 第一不可以來扣嘛第二扣到了不可以來報名 |
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這個很嚴重喔有將近三成 最高三成他入局以後他不來報到課程我就不可以來第三就是說他到了以後他做不了多久他就辭職他就離職了這三項所以主委你說你開會了這問題要怎麼解決 |
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的確是委員剛才指導的確情形是這樣子目前持續推動就是希望比較像醫師的不職業獎金這一類增加獎金的方式讓具有土木類專才或有技師資格的能夠多一些獎金第一個第二個甚至在考量考試的方式考試的類科或難易程度 |
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195.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你是要幫我比較好嗎你的意思是怎樣考試院有在考量因為怎麼考試是考試院的政策那第三個他會尊重你的意見第三個就是說土木類科我們分中央跟地方地方又分東部跟西部我們是中央還好中央這個當然沒有這麼嚴重地方就更嚴重了鄉鎮公所比縣市政府更嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
197.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
鄉鎮工程他職等很低嘛那東部呢花蓮台東屏東澎湖這些考上的他去那邊就要待下來了幾乎都沒有報到所以我們目前工程會在推那種比較偏遠地區的培訓你要用培訓班嗎對我就是要跟你討論這一題所以我們目前在明年度要在花蓮要跟宜蘭大學合作辦一個學分班那你現在遇到一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
223.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
237.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第一個總預算不通過這個也是昆明黨也看一看這個問題剛主委點出一個重點你一些譬如說花東的地方離島的地方人才不願意去更嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
262.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你像在工廠裡面,很多人都不想去花東,課程也不可以報到那怎麼辦?所以工程會,你這個辦法我是支持你他現在去辦土木工程學分班學分班跟宜蘭大學合作,因為花東那邊沒有土木科系希望可以吸引更多人,就是說他至少給他一個在地的人來培訓他現在中午的時候沒過 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們就 你就副分局總召你不來看嗎這幾個月是為你們辦的為了發動 為了推動重大工程的需要你現在總裕山沒過這種新的辦理的事項你都沒辦法做了其實鐵道局也有說過鐵道局說他現在最缺人的就是東部分局 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
304.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
地牢也一樣 很多人都不可以去停泊公路也一樣 公路也一樣鐵道局很嚴重啦 現在有87個 現在有90個 剩下27個所以這個 我舉這個例子就是說 你總算沒過其實受害的啦 中央地方都受害啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
305.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
316.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
藍綠政黨都受害了 體育政府接近的都公民黨比較多你現在在很多界外技術對體育政府重要 緊急需要的你現在都沒辦法做 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
318.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
344.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好了 最後一段時間 我要跟主委因為時間要跟你討論 職災公安的問題因為我跟這一點 台灣的職業災害有一點嚴重你看我們的重大職災傷亡 這是羅東坡統計越來越多人稍微有下降但是營造業下降速度很慢主委你看 我們營造業 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個從2014年到20 就是最近兩年營造業平均一年都要有150萬重大的 每個月都要十幾個人有重大之災的傷亡死亡 我講的是死亡大家可能不知道 台灣的營造業是很危險的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
401.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
來照這個數據我看現在一年要死150個一個月要死十幾個這營造業的整個屬於重大職災而且佔了我們全體重大職災的一半一半所以不夠你這個要贏多少台灣人有多少就算是外勞偏多我不知道啦我沒有拿到進一步傷亡人的背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
402.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
409.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是這麼高的死亡率,死亡人數,我看是絕對的人數,而且它降價速度很慢,這兩天對於160倍才降到145個,這對於職災的防範,我們有在檢查嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
424.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
440.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
工程會應該有你負責因為這幾年我們有一些重大工程譬如說大規模的高樓層的深開化的這些都真的有一定的規模性還有危險性那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
441.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
463.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我希望我們工程會作為公共工程主管機關應該可以如何叫勞動部來協同從管理制度面來熱衷抗擊自災風險來保護這些工人寶貴的生命也不要讓他們受到傷害尤其是西方人手 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
464.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
477.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
主辦機關 合作啦 都是我們公家的台電啦 公路局啦 隔鎖公路局啦所以這點不是真的要注意 你這裡有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
478.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好謝謝這個除了勞動部有利他的依依他的職責在做集合之外工程會會去集合那另外呢我們在法制面在公務工程的評選那裡面會有關於職災的扣分的一些規定甚至重 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
498.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
525.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
比較重大的會報伊林尼條款的停權你講到這 剛好就是我要跟你提的我們有一個扣點沒有錯啦我們的扣點的定義有一個中度比較小 嚴重比較多什麼叫中度 什麼叫嚴重根本上沒有這個標準就要三個評審委員自己決定所以我覺得應該要有一個明確的規範它缺失的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
526.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
546.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
第二,這個靠點最令我生氣的就是比如說高差兩公尺以上你沒有防止墜落的安全設施所以叫撥下來,嚇死了第二,施工價不穩定,所以你站不起來撥下來第三,公區內外安全防護措施不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
548.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
567.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
重複一直發生只要你說你集合得好你不應該這三點原因不斷地重複出現這是我跟你說的所以我們目前的集合扣點制度絕對有問題否則每次這三項都改不改都永遠排在最前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
568.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
584.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以我要請我要這種所謂齊頭式的施工查核我認為要再改變應該先針對高風險的工程加強密度管理我這是看日本怎麼做我可以提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
586.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
607.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
注意你做參考 日本就有重點監督制度 它特別條列出來你只要是這幾種的工程 這幾種施工的方法比如說深開化 做高度 高橋墩 這個都是極度危險的或者是說你是第一架得標的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
630.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他都認為你可能會節省成本安全防護措施的不足所以他有特別表列出你如果是這幾種他會提高他的監督查核的頻率還有標準我們現在是沒有我們現在所有工廠平均的檢查頻率都變多了其他主要原因是從哪裡來的第一 什麼檢紀 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
632.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
647.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
檢舉啦 民眾檢舉 媒體報導啦我們都不會有啦 第二有啦 你說低價得標偏低的啦第三 工程品質欠佳的你說你大概發現的時候 都是已經被動式了 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
648.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
650.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們希望讓台灣能夠降低我們營造工程的危險性 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
665.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
678.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我看到的那種壽林對我們來講可能就是一個數字但是對董事長就是家破人亡的慘劇你想一年平均營造的市一百五十幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
681.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
694.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
各位都要洗澡幾個這個我們看了非常痛心好不好這個我們遵照委員的意見來看必要的相關制度法規或規範來做修正好感謝主委謝謝主席 |