| IVOD_ID |
166784 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166784 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-05T10:15:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-05T10:32:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c294bbfbc570b58b25e848ba6080ea13011a53eea80ce16aea507db77ca691819d60a91c10e9f3c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
謝龍介 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:15:26 - 10:32:05 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、交通部、國防部、法務部、司法院、勞動部及行政院主計總處就「公告修正《政府採購法》，以求精進政府採購效率、提高重大工程進度品質、堵絕惡質廠商投標可能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查(一)委員黃捷等17人擬具「政府採購法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條、第九十四條及第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員賴士葆等20人、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人及(六)委員賴瑞隆等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十四條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「政府採購法第九十四條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員萬美玲等21人、(九)委員游顥等23人、(十)委員羅廷瑋等16人、(十一)委員林倩綺等24人、(十二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(十三)委員馬文君等16人、(十四)委員羅智強等17人、(十五)委員翁曉玲等17人及(十六)委員黃健豪等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員許智傑等17人擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條、第一百零二條及第一百零三條條文修正草案」案、(十八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等20人及(二十)委員魯明哲等16人分別擬具「政府採購法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。
【本次會議僅進行詢答】
【1月5日及8日二天一次會】） |
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主席我們是為了台南市的交通建設未來要怎麼大發電就要交我意見這樣很好我請主委來 陳進德主委請 |
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委員長 主委長 我對這項修法非常憂心我看你探討幾個 因為我知道很多 為了要修法 因為法保在各機關內有面臨很多困難面臨很多挑戰 所以我想說要來修改 |
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但是如果放了太多人就對了我認為說你們這個收這個二十條是規定什麼情形下可以拆除選舉性的手錶嘛就是說原則上我們原則上是公開手錶嘛都是公開差別原則上公開手錶但是選舉性的手錶就是說首先扮演你手上的主角選擇之後呢你來建立一個名單就對了 |
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今天明天大約 只要邀請這些已經經過審查過的聰明來這樣就可以了就不需要再辦理公開招標了嗎不是不是不是不是都是公開招標沒有喔我了解到的應該是不是你現在要修法的方向是這樣嗎它是每一個個案這個個案公開招標公告之後 |
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有興趣的廠商會投嘛 按照我們設定的資格選出來你現在就是說 貼紮 審查 簽證 合計 簽證的名單之後不是所有的 是每個個案你現在要修正經 我們現階段就是說大概有幾種 四五種的情形可以辦理選擇性的指標啦 現在啦 現況啦 |
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如果這樣 你現在先請教的一項就是說經過主管機關認定者 機關就可以辦理選擇性招標 |
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對不對 對好 來 主管機關什麼人工程會 就是你們嘛 對所以你們經過 人經過之後他就可以辦你選擇選的籌票了怎麼還有什麼公開的籌票工程會是例外就是說如果在這些要件裡面碰到一些特殊的 |
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主委啊 不能再例外了啊 這很誇張耶這樣就要搞大事的大條啊跟我們報告 他這個先建立一個所謂合格廠商 並不是一個我知道嘛 你因為這個條文你這樣一改在全國的 全國的那個標的只要你工程會過了OK啊 你說的可以的全部可以選擇那個採用選擇性的標啊 跟不是這條 |
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198.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我感覺牽涉很大主委啊我跟委員報告工程會並不是採購機關我們是政府採購的主管機關我知道嘛 但是這些變成是你們認定可以機關就可以採用工程會不會隨便認定這樣你就變成管理有夠大公共工程委員會管理有夠大工程會不會隨便去限定一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
201.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
208.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個沒有特殊的情形會限定說沒有啦 你這樣變成公共工程委員會你如果認為這幾間廠商可以這樣其他所有財幹部門都沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
235.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他就要照你們的規定去用 因為你們有特權嘛你的權利是有夠多的 我也可能誤解了啦不是 但因為你現在講的辦法是說你剛剛解釋是說我公共工程委員會 我不會亂買你誤解了 我們不是指定說哪些廠商可以我們是指定哪些採購的這個標案 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
239.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
256.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
如果說經濟官來請示那工程會當然會來考慮對嘛 它清晰過 只要你公共工程委員會 你可以就可以了嘛那機關就可以採用限制性招標了嘛 選擇性招標嘛明確就是這樣嘛這個對機關採購比較有彈性 沒關係啦 因為這還沒成立還沒煮熟飯啦本席今天給你提出這個 這是說大家國防有意義了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
268.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
287.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
是不是可以修復得更漂亮是不是可以修復得更漂亮我不是指責你啦 我也不是在質疑你是說將來就變成 公共工程委員會變成太上皇這樣 今天如果你在做主意 我相信你啊外面的人來做主意 我不一定相信這個委員 大家個人有意見啊所以包括這個22條 第一項第六款 這很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
312.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
什麼情形可以拆除犯罪性的招標犯罪性的招標就是 不用公開招標啦我給大家報告 這樣比較快啦甚至連功課都不用啦犯罪性的招標就是這樣嘛 就可以直接找鄉鄉來簽約啦這種招標的特殊度就對了啦 是非常特殊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
理論上來講就是說 應該要重演嘛 既然要做限制性招標就應該要重演才對馬哥 你現在在這個條文裡面 我看到的是有第18條的第3項 你們把22條第1項第6款裡面有一條我 主委我告訴你 沒在跟你不知道沒在跟你沒注意到喔裡面有一句說 因為能預見之情形因為能預見之情形 你竟然把這規律拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
351.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
376.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
哇 這事情更加嚴重本來是規定說在周邊的環圍內我們未能意見之情形所以必須追加工程以外的工程是這樣啊所以不需要 如果要另外周邊會發生重大不便嘛所以這有很多困難所以我們才會這樣做嘛結果你現在把這個意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
379.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
387.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
因未能意見之情形 要把它提掉 提掉就變成怎樣一百萬要追加四十九萬就對了 追加五十萬他也不用再照表 他就照原本的想像來說說就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
421.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我跟委員說明這句話是罪語就是因為未能預見之情形當然每個機關就是因為未預見所以到時候執行的時候預算高就是做的時候高於原預算或原不然因為未能預見之情形就是阿伯在管控的時候你是不是你如果沒有 如果我沒有就對了譬如說我們倒過來講假如我是承辦機關我如果有心要做工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
423.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
449.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我這工廠一千五百萬我好保一千萬就好我好保一千萬特定的人我製錶料好了我後面五百萬我不用再製錶了你現在改料後就變這樣他的程序都沒有變跟原條文都沒有變你現在改料後就變這樣不是 刪掉這個因未建之情形必須追加企業以外之工程等等等所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
463.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他的這個他的原來就是說你這個機關呢必須追加企業以外為什麼必須追加企業以外就是因為未見之情形嘛所以我現在跟你說你這個一句拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
466.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
479.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我剛才說的一千萬發保料我阿伯要再兌加五百萬我不用再照表了這個跟這句話有關啦我直接找原本的衝衝來做就可以了這些程序跟這句話刪除不刪除是無關的那是無關的那阿伯檢調可以辦不可以辦就有關還是無關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
485.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
492.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
比較無關的 主委你怎麼這樣想呢你真的要把這個條件組結放到領候所有的審判機關裡面 大家就肆無忌憚 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
501.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
515.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
就已經有九零了 坦白說現在要用採工法去辦這個荷包價就對了要保修我們的荷包 坦白說檢調單位就已經攔上咖了你現在再這樣 他們就摔上咖身了 他們要怎麼去辦啊再來就是說 群眾要來控制 群眾要來控制 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
523.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
541.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
施工現場在這個條件好啦 工廠的設計都算啦現在是公民眾來控制你們公家就是符合未能意見之情形你們裡面有這樣討論啦結果你們基隸就是說因為有這個情形所以我們把未能意見之情形拿掉我告訴你 你來討論是這樣這樣是不對的 不好啦主委 你不覺得這樣是有矛盾的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
552.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
579.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那我四個 我今天要拔雞骨我地方發包 我叫人出來控制一下就好了那承辦機關我可以用嗎這不好啊我的意思是說在阿伯鄉親法律以前我提供這個意見是因為有人建議希望修復更嚴謹一點不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
582.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
586.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這樣做就一定會有問題啦你這裡沒有問題 下面會有問題啦大家保留順便康啊對不對他就在想沒有牽絆的 要專家的人就是在想牽絆結果你把他創造成牽絆 還要大牽的對不對 限制性的招標就是不必公開招標啦甚至連工格都不必了可以直接找鄉鄉來簽約如果這樣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
611.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
620.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這就對鄉鄉很優待嘛那你現在要把30條改成什麼改成 限制性的支票 不用收阿表金 吼吼吼 這樣有的有這個情形嗎 來來來這是免分的勝利 我跟你說 我要給你賺就像最近郭鴻波那樣的採購就對了你不用啦 免分的啦 我要給你賺你不用金分 不用阿表金 吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
640.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
662.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
啊這來攤那個大條 沒啦這這樣你會害到老總統啦變成他起來做總統 啊修啊 整個修得靈活活 更加高級的 整個變成不用拿本的 不用金本的 能更加高級啦欸主委你可能沒注意到 四節有這部分喔我有看到 你有注意 我昨天晚上還在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
663.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
683.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他是講說勞務採購有沒有除了正當禮物外免收押標金保證金等他並不是所有的限制性招標都不能收押標金剛才委員可能有所誤解我請副主委來補充說明這個其實本來原來就 換得更寬原來是說溢價的那種情況他得免收嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
684.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
694.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那為什麼限制性招標 現在把他限縮到限制性的招標沒有換款 你沒有放課 有影響什麼有什麼要放課 藏二票金就不用如果今天有市議結束 股票有二票金這樣 對你有什麼風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
710.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
730.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
本來就他本來的規定就是溢價方式辦理的採購免收押標金我們沒有放寬我們是把他的免收我來問限制性招標裡面不用公開招標一條30條的規定限制性招標不用收押標金 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
731.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
747.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
限制性招標得不公告所以他並不是全部不公告這跟有人說明那原條文免收押標金是溢價但是限制性招標除了溢價之外他還有一些評選我把問題說出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
754.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
782.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我是希望阿伯送出來叼文你們要注意一下啦我請教那個副主委啦像我們追求廠商的押標金齁在法律上啊公法上不當得力請求這個這個見解請求的請求的時號是5年嘛對不對一般的公法的請求權來我來看看你們想要給他改2年是什麼那2年多大家照料料 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
782.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
809.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為我們基本上是因為是從機關他得知或可得而知啦那個一般的公法上請求權他的每一種方法計算的這個起算點不大一樣所以我們基本上是把他統一那我們也不希望你統一我問你你才會越綁越硬我們邱兄弟就在不良的邱兄堆就堆不回來你現在堆五年五年就有時候我們堆不回來你總要改造兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
813.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
824.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我也覺得奇怪 你們的手法若是對政府有保障的我支持你嘛 沒有問題這個是指機關你知道了要去追那你知道了一直不追 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
826.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
849.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個期間的這個調整嘛所以你不能說你這個你寫的不明確喔你現在是在給我解說你跟我說你知道了你不追所以兩人沒有喔調文就是這樣啊調文就是這樣子對不對這個是除資期間的規定知不知道來知不知道的認定是怎樣我是認為在要限縮 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
851.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
854.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
執行者的權益的時候我拜託你一下這條你再索賀一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
862.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
878.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我再跟委員說明他並不是說兩年沒有追到不能再追我如果兩年內都沒有啟動要跟你追追查那時候你不能再主張我告訴你就是說我們過去34條第三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
882.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
896.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
割標進行必須保密但是你現在拿出來的手法就是說底價及其他足以造成限制競爭或不公平競爭之相關資料於結標前除了有特殊情形外應以保密 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
897.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
911.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
本來就都喜歡保密 為什麼現在有特殊情形什麼叫特殊情形有的要去訪假嘛沒有啦 你現在有的要去訪假我不是不想你去訪假 但是本來都要保密的東西你現在給我擺一個特殊情形 就可以不用保密了這個東西撈出來 想要算什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
922.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
942.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我請副主委來跟您說明原則上當然是要保密嘛原則上要保密但是他在每些個案進行的時候有時候他必須去進行比較或者協商那在那種狀況底下他可能就必須要公開啊什麼叫特殊情形公開是公開這項還是公開全部 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
944.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
969.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那當然是要看他那個個案的性質到底哪些可以公開哪些不能公開我們沒有辦法足以把所有的情況在法條裡面寫清楚那你就變成是說有你們的施行細則在上面那也是一個方法如果說有累積足夠的個案我們可以用施行細則來進一步規劃那現在因為他是沒有那個例外的條款變成講對這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
971.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
997.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
副主委 你們要頂這些私刑細則 希望上這個委員會 上來分析一下沒有啦 什麼關鍵 我可以提早給國家負責採訪的人 給你們提供意見你們用用的 會搞不好下落 會對自愛難行 搞不好大家開火事件都必然重生 這裡崩那裡崩好 這個我們再個別跟我們一起請教好 謝謝 |