| IVOD_ID |
166781 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166781 |
| 日期 |
2026-01-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-01-05T10:31:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-01-05T10:42:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c294bbfbc570b588892070ba2398e51eeb09d831e702117aea507db77ca6918905b1f1929327f535ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳玉珍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:31:17 - 10:42:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-01-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處主計長陳淑姿、財政部部長莊翠雲、國防部副部長、海洋委員會副主任委員、海巡署副署長就「115年度中央政府總預算案至今尚未審查，對國家安全及地方建設的影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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國產署還有主計總署這三個單位我們請徐副部長還有陳主計長還有國產署的副署長謝謝主席副部長剛剛我聽到羅明蔡委員詢問您我們中華民國有多少軍人的時候你是一時之間回答不出來還是這是國家機密或者你不知道現原編制是機密 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.124 |
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現言編制有多少人是機密是不是好來我剛剛也想說可能是機密我上網查了一下我問了一下google了一下中華民國多少軍人馬上跑出來根據這個立法院的報告有寫了然後這個全球火力的這個我看還是很多單位這是公開資訊喔你的機密竟然是公開資訊來立法院全球資訊網有寫這個美國之音粵語網有寫這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.137 |
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軍事網站全球火力也有公告你的國家機密竟然都登在這些各大網站裡頭然後我跟你講我練一下他的這個我剛剛搜尋的結果這是這是這不是我一個人可以讀得到的中華民國國運協議金人在不可能報告中率而差大致都在17萬到21.5萬人中間然後接著還有呢我又查了一下你們軍方的國防部的網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.718 |
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我又查了一下國安部的網站他有寫招募的這個來 中華民國國安部的網站也有寫這個內容有寫說由於國軍每年需求補充軍事官員的達一萬餘人 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.833 |
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你們也寫在網站上面啊那不是縣緣編制委員這些都不是縣緣編制那他問你有多少軍人的時候他也不是問你什麼編制什麼他問你這裡有寫啊這個2025年11月12號台海軍情這是報導你看看國防部送到立法院的報告也寫啊編制啊 |
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120.175 |
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總額在馬英九總統任內21.5萬至今年為11年之久然後接著接著 這是公開資訊喔國防部的報告寫的喔編制已經接近23萬人這些都是公開資訊那個是編制 不是現原編制我知道 編線比我不一樣 我也知道齁我非常尊重親人 我來自金門喔我是最 來自一個最軍耐民民進軍的地方我是要 我是很好奇說你那時候沒有回答是因為它是國防機密還是說你不知道不是 因為現原編制是機密 |
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這個部長 次長你好這個有一個問題我今天要詢問的是金門的這個問題你應該也很尊重軍人也很在乎軍人吧當然啊那沒問題啊那我們今天討論說因為這個預算沒有通過總預算沒過所以很多 剛剛很多比如中委員也講到說有很多什麼事情沒有辦法做嘛那你剛剛也說到這個戰鬥人員很多辛苦嘛好 你知道我們立法院三讀通過那個軍人加薪的這個法案你們知道嗎 |
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178.187 |
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是知道嗎那做了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
181.038 |
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200.009 |
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報告委員 這件事情行政院現在有你不要管行政 國防部有沒有編啊我們是行政院的一部分啊你們是國防部 國防部有沒有編這個預算你們不編是不是我們要跟行政院同步 行政是一體的你不應該站在國防部的立場為軍人爭取權利嗎行政院如果不編 你不應該編嗎編了讓上面三邊有關係來你就是只聽上面的 不關心下面的喔我沒有不關心下面的委員你只聽行政院長不關心這個基層的官兵喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.296 |
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222.902 |
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你應該怎麼做 你站在國防部 站在軍人上你應該編進去 如果是行政把你刪掉我敬你是一條漢子什麼意思 老闆說不要編就不編然後軍人就 軍人這麼辛苦 剛剛說口聲說要照顧軍人就蓋編預算的時候因為老闆說不要編不編不是這個意思 報告委員不是這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.697 |
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我們軍人當然要照顧 可是要跟整體的公務機關一起平衡那立法院都給你法源了嘛 你就編 編上去被行政院刪掉對不起 你已經全力為國防部的官兵爭取權益了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.465 |
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251.587 |
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行政院刪掉 行政院不支持 那是行政院的考量嘛你站在為國軍弟兄的立場 你就應該幫國軍編進去不然我就會覺得你就是取誠喪義你了解嗎 因為有法源依據 不是沒有啊你編了被刪掉 被這個送到行政院會被刪掉那這個整體考量 你要站在國防部的立場 你要站在軍人的立場因為你是國防部 尤其是國防部的副部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.758 |
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290.562 |
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好來沒關係今天不是要跟你討論這個來金門的問題金門土地問題跟我們國安部有很大的關係國安部當時因為軍事強佔金門的這個土地金門人的土地用了以後沒有歸還給老百姓有的是歸還以後又有一些設施沒有拆有的是找不到人還直接交給國產署導致金門鄉親還要跟國產署要買要租 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
295.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
309.619 |
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那這些東西本席借到非常多的這個陳情說要把我們人民的土地還給我們金門鄉親是不是本來就應該把上面的這些軍事建物拆除掉啊這基本你佔人家的土地在上面蓋房子要還了以後又不拆那是怎麼回事呢這個你回答一下你沒辦法回答是不是好那再來回答一下為什麼會這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.939 |
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包委員有關這個金門是不是這個國軍佔用這些土地的問題我想我們會後會把這個相關的這個事情已經澄清很多次了而且因為不是一件是普遍的另外一個金門的鄉親根據國軍軍事勤務導致人民傷亡損害條例賠償國防部說那是他個人行為不在國家賠償之列 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
343.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
軍人有個人行為嗎都是國家的行為啊那軍方佔用國家土地很多都沒有使用要充斥所有權或繼承去購回那國防部一直說還在使用連我們前縣長李柱峰都跑去跟監察院陳情啊我們那時候老百姓大到我們的那個上次我們的金門縣前縣長你看這張照片李柱峰縣長在那裡跑去跟監委陳情說國防部就是這樣子蠻橫 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個個案我們要不是個案我想是通案我只是舉他當例子因為他是前縣長通案啦你去問監察院每次去金門這裡面講個人行為這是某一個個案我們要具體的聊他所說個人行為是說這個個人行為是指軍方的不是說我們這個縣長這不是通案的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
401.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我舉這個例子只是這是一個例子但是普遍我想你可能不了解你們誰負責這個部分的真的沒有接到很多陳情嗎因為本來今天是預算的部分我沒有說是國防機密 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
411.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
415.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我沒有說這是國防機密好啦 你要多為基層的官兵想一想你想看他們待遇如果國家除了要對外打仗 除了要精密的武器以外也要民心士氣 你要軍人為你去外面去打仗去賣命你給他一點無後顧之憂的保障都沒有尤其戰鬥家我們沒有不給他保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
434.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
441.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
有啊 因為你說行政院說這個可能什麼違憲啊什麼什麼每天拘泥在這個上面國防部就是應該編你讓行政院刪沒有關係站在你國防部的立場你就應該為軍人請命好 這個門口頂啊這個國產局 國產署啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
452.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
471.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個門口門口這個問題你應該知道門前的一塊遍地空地有很多私領域那幾乎鄉下金門鄉下人家都有那早年對不對開放登記的時候金門老百姓那時候以前軍管時代老百姓都不懂這個法令那只登記所有權門前就沒有登記都被 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
472.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
493.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
就說歸國有吧 這些你們應該知道好來那根據中華民國那個112年憲判之第20號就是也有相關的歷史是在日治時期日本佔領的時候的那個私有土地總登記那個登記國有案裡頭有一些相關的判決主文就說在那個時候的相關的判決主文有說那人民基於在 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
494.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
520.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
基於這個該土地所有權地位請求國家土消登記時沒有民法消滅時效規定之適用你知道這個判決嗎知道知道好那很簡單講他就有下面三點的這個意義就是說第一個推定權利歸屬的效率不是絕對依據第二個國家不受憲法財產權的保障國家第三個導致土地被登記為國有容許國家主張時效抗命是沒有正當性可言的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
520.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
531.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那我想請教這個國產署那日據實在是這樣做基本早年被國家就是被軍方軍方就是國家這個侵佔這個徵用的這個土地是不是也可以援引辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
532.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
559.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
報告委員 因為根據這個憲判制20號的意思你們是不是可以幫我們檢討憲判20號的部分是指說如果說民眾在爭議所有權在透過法院判決的時候國參署不能夠主張時效抗辯 沒錯 沒錯那現在基本有很多這個例子就是在軍戰 軍管時期因為這樣子沒有辦法登記嘛現在登記回來的時候也是遇到一樣的情形只是那個憲判制的時候是處理日據時代我們基本就是有軍管時代嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
559.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
577.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以這個部分請你們回去幫我請好好的研究一下基本老百姓很多需要做這樣的登記的時候一樣應該要比照這個宪判制可以援引你們可以援引因為大家現在當我們老百姓要取回自己土地的時候都被用那個時效的那個方式來被駁回 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
579.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
603.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
回去研究一下幫我們來解決很快給我答案好不好兩個月可以嗎可以好謝謝來這個主計總署考試院調高的地方機關的這個植物劣等流財的115年今年2月就要上路那提高你看到這個說提高各地方政府所有機關這個兼任的這個非主管升到八到九涵蓋行政技術各方面還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
604.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
632.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
地方政府的一級主管 上列7條到7到8 這個你知道嗎你知道這件事嗎 考試院這個行最近的 地方普遍的調高那金門的主計單位來講金門主計單位是用輪調制度就是說 統一序列者會在國中小的會計主任 二級機關會計主任 鄉鎮所的主計人三個輪調 這三個是同一個序列那新制二業上路是不是只有二級機關會計主任才可以調整呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
633.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
639.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那其他包括在國小會計主任及時間到了嗎還有這個鄉鎮主計員都是新人就沒有辦法調生呢原則上他是因為他調整有一定的限額嘛那所以這個部分不是限額是公平性問題因為時間到我跟您請教我有發函給你們你們有回覆啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
654.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
666.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
對 所以這個部分你看一下 這樣會造成的不公平一個剛從台灣調過來跟原來資深的這個過程中在這個整個 因為剛好有一個升等的部分在這個過程中整個要很公平的對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
668.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
684.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你要看一下你們再仔細的回覆好嗎在這個過程中這個處理原則要公平才不會說在不同時間點站到不同位置就會有不同的這個這個部分我們是請縣市政府要針對這部分做公平的調整好麻煩你要關注謝謝陳委員接下來我們請賴會議員委員好謝謝主席 |