| IVOD_ID |
166751 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166751 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-31 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-31T10:48:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-31T11:06:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c2638f9bef880eb1bf6500e4c8218fd5b1ecef7239bdfb16c0748ef97bdf76601257d1c12132fb9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳思瑤 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:48:09 - 11:06:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-31T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請法務部部長率所屬相關單位、司法院副秘書長、內政部警政署、行政院國土安全辦公室就「無差別攻擊犯罪事件之防治與量刑檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、併案審查
(一)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「政務人員法草案」案。
(二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「政務人員行為基準法草案」案。
【第（二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】
【僅進行詢答】） |
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來請吳世陽委員發言謝謝主席先請政部長還有內政部警政署的代表有請政部長委員好大家辛苦了我現在進行今天第一個議題無差別的攻擊全社會都要戒備慎防下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.804 |
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43.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我要請教一下警政署的代表我實在是不堪其擾又來了 冒用吳思瑤的信箱威脅要發動無差別的攻擊從12月22號到12月29號 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
72.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
六次包括昨天夜間我每一次被冒名用我的信箱寄信到警政署威脅說要攻擊101威脅說要攻擊松山機場威脅說要攻擊總統府不管是丟汽油彈或是要砍人我是不勝其擾那照程序每一次我都必須跑一趟北投分局 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
78.823 |
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你想看看我這六天跑了六次北投分局有沒有查到什麼誰知道嗎報告委員這個部分我們再做個查證 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
還在查證中這不是第一次這是第二波的六次下一頁前一次前一波是在國慶日的時候冒用吳思瑤的信箱總共10月9號到16次8次的揚言要發動恐怖攻擊你們警政署也已經知道不是吳思瑤可是我還是每一次都要跑一趟北投分局去報案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
133.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那這八次查的怎麼樣?也是... 是好像都沒有辦法查到一個具體的因為我們也都心知肚明這可能就是惡作劇或者是刻意的要去滋擾立法委員下一次 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
151.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那張文的捷運北捷攻擊案北投屈我的選區倒是真的成為一個被指名要在12月31號也就是今天要北投砍死100人你們查出IP在越南嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
152.609 |
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171.364 |
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這段時間冒名的這種重大網路風險訊息應該是22件立案偵辦的應當是4件這是我上週一質詢張署長的時候獲得的資訊請問北投這個案子有沒有進一步的查到什麼因為我們北投都在部署都在戒備有沒有進一步的消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
174.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
194.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以你們今天來的代表好像就是不是很清楚這個辦案我要說就是無論如何這種網路的仿效的效應就是造成社會的恐慌甚至造成我被盜用帳號冒名的當事人的不堪其擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
197.896 |
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215.351 |
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這種網路的查查偵辦無論如何我請警政署要能夠有所作為我不曉得我今天質詢完又要是不是又被冒名了我又要再跑分局報警一次真的不要再亂了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
233.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這些滋事分子滋事擾事的分子不要再亂了下一頁那我很感謝警政署我週一去內政委員會針對這個張文的模仿犯要在北投砍100人的事件我向張署長提出質詢之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
234.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
259.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我提出幾個要求就是應當在北投市林我服務的選區召開地方的緊急治安會議要落實官民協防我們的民防疫警社區巡守隊動起來然後加強巡邏提高見景率我那天江處長告訴我好像第一步是支援台北市警力中央支援好像八十多人現在是不是又增加了應當是人力物力都來 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
261.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
266.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
目前還是維持在這個人數但是今天那個跨年活動會 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
267.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
293.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
對 跨年活動絕對要滴水不漏那當然增進公民的宣導對人民的危機意識要深化這就是我上週一質詢我謝謝署長我質詢完兩個小時內我就接到北投分局長的電話他跟我說 司要委員謝謝你的關心我們週三就召開緊急治安會議我也親自去出席這就是讓大家都能夠守望相助 人人有責下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
294.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
306.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我要肯定一下北投分局喔 就是他們自己做的一個文宣啊您知道捷運站碰到恐怖攻擊要如何自保嗎有四字訣 您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
308.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
330.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
警政署代表不知道 這應該是我們北投分局自己的同仁很用心的製作跑 躲 擋 報第一個 能跑就跑第二個 不能跑就躲第三個 躲不了就擋 要找掩護最後呢 如果你安全了就報警跑 躲 擋 報 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
332.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
348.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我真的很謝謝北投分局這一次全面的總動員這樣子的資訊我覺得非常有利於你們在各地分享給更多的民防社區的系統好嗎那另外你們知道這本小局書全台灣發放的狀況如何這國安國安在發的你們你們有收集嗎跟各地的縣市政府鄰里系統在合作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
358.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
369.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
包委員因為這一個部分是內政部在主導就好你們今天找警政署好像都一萬三不知可能代表不一樣了OK |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
370.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
392.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我自己的轄區我服務的是林北投幾乎都收到了但是可能最後九成多還有一些last mile最後一些社區你們絕對要全力趕快把這個重要的人民強化民防的資訊全百分之百都要下放好嗎好謝謝辛苦你們好下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
393.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
404.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
進入今天的另一個主題就政務人員的專訪那個部長當時我就提出了這是要誰啊你們行政院跟考試院好考試院好 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
407.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
428.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我就提出專法的必要性因為如同美國、加拿大、英國、德國、日本等等民主國家都沒有立這種政務人員專法也沒有禁止政務人員參與政治活動因為政治活動是憲法賦予人民的權利嘛而主管機關到底是行政院還考試院現在還莫衷一試 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
429.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
454.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那適用對象我看到三個版本羅志強委員翁小林委員吳宗憲委員適用對象不一翁委員的版本好像是適用比較大的把大法官法官都含納進去了那當然規範的行為包山包海也莫衷一事這些爭點你們認為現在有正向的結論可以進行立法了嗎你們誰要回答連主管機關考試院認了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
462.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
486.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主管監察部分我剛剛有說明就是說這個法律裡面規範的有些部分行政院要處理那有些部分該是監察院的工作好像有一部分跟考試院有關那牽涉到相關法律跟既有法律重疊的部分有考試院的法律沒有錯但也有行政院很多行政院相關法律所以也站在這個規範的對象因為高度政治性來講所以不太適合由主管管法制的考試院來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
486.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
505.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
您的回答其實跟我們上一次就這個主題也是一致你們倒是蠻一致的好下頁所以有這些爭點這是我8月28號召委排案的時候我就提出來的建議如果有院版不管是考試院版或行政院版政府的版本有會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
506.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
530.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
當然要不要立這個專法是值得商榷第二個我也提出建議呼籲主席這個課題要邀請學者專家中央地方政府因為很多是規範地方政府應當有公聽會再來處理這也是我今天的建議當然相關的法規配套不管是公務人員行政中立法公務員服務法公務員懲戒法或是刑法121條都要一併的檢視我依舊8月28對於委員會提出來的呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
536.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
564.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
跟今天12月31號我依舊建議不要為快而快不要倉促立法這依舊是我今天的一些主張好 下一頁我倒是覺得非常的遺憾這也不是要問考試院那就鄭部長您上來代表一下好了立法委員自己不守法反定專法要去管別人 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
565.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
594.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
只准立委放火不准政務人員點燈喔譬如說今天要立政務人員行為基準法這一屆的立法院的立法委員們自己都不遵守立法委員行為法了左邊是我們宣誓的時候的誓詞啊於是以至存於是以至成客尊憲法效忠國家代表人民依法行使權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
596.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
616.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這是我們每一個人就任的時候對著國旗對著國父遺像所宣示的最重要的就是克尊憲法效忠國家代表人民依法行使權利但是我們這一屆的立法委員自己都不克尊憲法自己都不效忠國家自己都不依法 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
618.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
630.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
來行使代表人民行使職權我看到汪小林委員的版本第18條第二項建屋人員如果有違法廢除職務之事就要予以免職 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
631.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
652.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那就怪啦立法委員自己違法立法委員自己廢除職務到今天12月31號了中央政府總預算第一頁第一筆預算都還沒開始審查這不就達到了自己廢除職務違法的就是立法委員啊立法委員要不要自己免職啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
654.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
669.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
翁曉林委員的提案第14條他說如果政務人員利用職務之便然後去收受賄賂等等收受金錢契約或其他利益之捐助就要有罰則那怪啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
670.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
697.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
國民黨的委員提出立法院組織法要把助理費納為立法委員的合法的補助費立委可以自肥立法委員自己貪獨自己把要給助理的錢變成自己的錢那自己立法委員憑什麼去管政務人員行為基準啊自己真的我委員自己的提案去想想發生在立法院的情景吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
698.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
710.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不要立委自己不守法反定專法去管別人還包山包海管到海邊去連大法官法官都要管很奇怪下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
712.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
734.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
立委提案推翻憲判這是我們上週五立法院院會晉覆二讀譴責大法官而且立院用決議來宣判憲判無效而且不是只有這個憲法訴訟法的憲判無效喔我看國民黨團的這個提案甚至耳後啊耳後啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
735.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
752.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
大法官援引此判決以人數未達憲法訴訟法所定的這個門檻的話一切的憲法宣判均屬無效不生效力應該是司法院的代表應該上來這樣一個憲判無效案用立法院的決議可以推翻憲判 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
754.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
782.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這就違反憲法78條違反憲法訴訟法38條違反釋字185號的解釋嘛立法院自己廢除職務違法還違憲要不要自己免職自己啊還敢訂政務人員專法下一個翁委員呢昨天提出一個要修公投法可以用公民投票來覆決包括憲法法庭的判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
784.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
810.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
憲法增修條文第12條如果你要公投你就去修憲公投吧公投法第二條也規範了所謂的全國性公投依憲法規定依憲法規定要依憲法規定你現在要用公投法又去推翻大法官的憲法判決自己又推違憲法案不只沒有客尊憲法不只違法還違憲還廢除職務不審預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
813.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
834.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那這個標準立法委員自己要不要免職啊來 廳長您最棒您那天的很多答覆我覺得非常的公允立法委員可以用立法院的決議推翻憲判嗎立法委員可以修公投法啟用公投來推翻憲判嗎 您簡要回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
836.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
862.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
委員針對這個事項分兩個部分一個部分就是有關於立法院決議譴責那個大法官的憲判這個部分那這個部分就是之前有說明就是按照憲法訴訟法規定憲法法庭的判決本來就是有拘束全國機關跟人民的效力這是第一點我就是要再度澄清的然後再來有關於這是最新的昨天要修公投法 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
864.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
882.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個部分公投法將憲判納為公投的標的因為公投法其實是透過直接民權去補充代議民主的制度的不足在性質上面將一個司法的決定納為公投的標的會有意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
884.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
900.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那就這個部分我先做一個簡短的補充是 謝謝廷長我幫您翻譯為白話文如果任何一個司法的判決有委員不服以後就用立法院的院會決議來推翻司法的判決本來有罪的便無罪可以這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
902.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
914.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
或者是在野黨的委員不滿某一個司法的判決然後呢 就發動勞民傷財 全國性公投 用全民公投來推翻司法的宣判 會這樣嗎 鄭部長 會這樣嗎不會吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
919.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
940.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
翻譯白話文就是這樣嘛如果這樣依剛剛窩小林委員提的政務人員專法違法廢除職務的就要免職政務人員這些違法又違憲又廢除職務不成預算的立委不是自我免職自我了斷嗎最後來下一頁過去到現在阿扁執政時期135個釋憲案 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
942.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
947.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
馬英九總統執政時期95個釋憲案蔡英文總統時期120個釋憲案賴清德總統上任到現在8個釋憲案我要再次強調釋憲案98%都是人民權利不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
957.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
979.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
府院憲政機關的爭議98%都是人民權利如果國民黨所提的這一個推翻而後所有的憲判天啊天下大亂立法院最大又來了立法院最大又來了自己要不要先廢除職務先自我了斷自我免職啊下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
980.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1002.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
所以過去幾個經驗585號釋字在2004年的時候當時是陳水扁任命的大法官但是國會多數是國民黨因為大法官的宣判國民黨國會多數依舊通過了徵調會的條例的三讀修正依據大法官的視線去立法院作出回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1003.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1030.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
來做出一個合憲的修法這是針調會條例下一頁釋字613號是在2006年7月宣判的當時一樣是陳水扁總統執政沒有錯他任命的大法官但是國會多數是國民黨當時的國民黨還不敢這樣違憲國民黨也很快的在五個月後來完成NCC組織法被宣判違憲的組織法的修法他們改回來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1031.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1053.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
讓違憲成為合憲再看大家印象最深的是字748號下一頁就是同婚法案同婚法案大法官宣判之後2017年國會非常的慎重國會的各黨派在2019年花了兩年的時間我們通過了亞洲第一個同婚條例合憲一憲行憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1055.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1067.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
就是國會不分黨派憲法沒有顏色大法官沒有顏色為什麼這一屆的立法委員要一再的挑戰憲法要不要依你們所提的政務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1069.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1087.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
專法自我了斷自我免職呢所以刮刮別人的鬍子之前先刮刮自己政務人員專法我再次回到我的要求要有公聽會因為他適用的範圍很廣他規範的內容很廣然後他主管機關不明 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1089.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1111.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
然後他所有法律的競合要一併思考我再一次提醒招委我們要做合法合憲的立法委員因為我宣誓的時候吳思瑤對著憲法說我事已制成 恪遵憲法我相信翁曉琳委員也是這樣宣誓的不要心口不一 謝謝 |