| IVOD_ID |
16675 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16675 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-15T08:30:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-15T13:36:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:05:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a68514eb38c982c93fb95e5a7d9476abbdb352bdb8234cc31cac56a0665efbad2d545ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算決議有關勞動部主管預算凍結報告案76案(含報告事項59案及討論事項17案)。
【5月14日及15日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:45 - 13:36:00 |
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我們暗員解救部長好現在繼續開會那本會議成為處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算決議有關於勞動部主管預算凍結報告案76案這個含報告事項59案及討論事項17案那現在來介紹在場的委員及列席官員第一位是王振旭王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1798.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1824.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
第二位是陳昭芝 陳委員第三位是林業錦 林委員介紹官員 勞動部部長 洪森翰謝謝勞動力發展署署長 黃寧玉謝謝勞工保險局局長 白立珍謝謝還有勞動基金應用局局長 蘇玉清謝謝職業安全衛生署署長 林立堂 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1827.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1834.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
勞動及職業安全衛生研究所代理所長陳育維綜合歸要師師長王厚誠勞動關係師師長王厚維勞動保險師師長陳美女勞動福祉退休師師長謝謙倩勞動條件及就業評理師師長黃維生勞動房屋師 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1856.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1881.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
施長傅費芝謝謝藝術處處長丁玉珍人事處處長姜碧玲鄭榮市處長周志信謝謝會計處處長林美信還有行政院主計總處公務預算處檢任視察陳淑萍好謝謝然後現在處理報告事項計59案請一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1886.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1904.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
處理一四年度中央政府總預算決議有關勞動部主管預算凍結報告案五十九案一勞動部勞動基金運用局決議一第二幕向下基金業務支援考及控管預算凍結一萬元書面報告二勞動部新增決議五第一幕向下研議勞工保險財務及就業保險業務預算凍結十億元報告三 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1908.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1917.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
勞動部新增決議九第二目一般行政預算凍結五千萬書面報告四勞動部新增決議十一第二目向下基本行政工作維持預算凍結百分之 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1919.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1931.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
30 書面報告5 勞動部新增決議23 第三目向下策劃政策推廣預算凍結10% 書面報告6勞動部新增決議25 第四目向下促進工會組織自由化預算凍結10% 書面報告7 勞動部職業安全衛生署新增決議86 第三目職業安全衛生業務預算凍結3000萬 書面報告8 勞動部勞動力發展署及所署新增決議98 一般行政預算凍結20% 書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1949.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1972.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
9.勞動部決議1.勞動部預算凍結90萬書面報告10.勞動部決議2.第一幕勞動保險業務預算凍結60萬書面報告11.勞動部決議3.第二幕向下辦公大樓水電管理費預算凍結十分之一書面報告12.勞動部決議5.第二幕向下一般公務所使用郵資電話至通訊費租用影音機購置消耗品非消耗品及處理國會聯繫業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1974.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1993.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
事務等預算凍結十萬元書面報告十三至十八勞動部決議六七十十一十二十三第三目向下策劃政策推廣預算凍結百分之五書面報告策劃政策推廣預算凍結百分之五書面報告強化計劃管考預算凍結百分之五書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1995.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1998.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
強化人力資源規劃預算凍結5%書面報告業務費預算凍結20萬書面報告因應貿易自由化之政策規劃協調與勞工支持服務預算凍結5%書面報告19 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2009.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2033.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
決議十四 第四幕 勞動關係業務預算凍結一百萬書面報告二十至二十三 勞動部決議十五 十六 十七 十八 第五幕向下推動職工福利改善勞工生活預算凍結五萬元書面報告策劃勞工服務預算凍結二十萬書面報告勞動基金監理預算凍結五萬元書面報告因貿易自由化提升勞工福祉預算凍結五萬元書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2034.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2051.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
二十四勞動部決議十九第六目勞動條件及就業平等業務預算凍結二百萬書面報告二十五勞動部決議二十第六目勞動條件及就業平等業務預算凍結五十萬書面報告二十六勞動部決議二十一第七目勞動法務業務預算凍結十萬元書面報告二十七勞動部勞工保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2055.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2081.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
局決議一第一幕一般行政預算凍結一千萬書面報告二十八勞動部勞工保險局決議三第二幕保險業務預算凍結一百萬書面報告二十九勞動部勞工保險局決議四第二幕向下業務費預算凍結百分之五書面報告三十勞動部勞工保險局決議五第二幕向下勞工保險業務預算凍結百分之十書面報告三十一勞動部勞動力發展暑期所屬決議一勞動力發展暑期所屬預算凍結一百萬書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2083.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2097.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
三十二 勞動部勞動力發展署及所屬決議二第一幕一般行政預算凍結三百萬書面報告三十三 勞動部勞動力發展署及所屬決議三第一幕一般行政預算凍結三百萬書面報告三十四至三十七 勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2099.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2121.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
劳动力发展署及所属决议4568第二幕劳动力发展业务预算冻结20万书面报告劳动力发展业务预算冻结200万书面报告向下综合规划预算冻结50万书面报告向下推展职业训练发展业务预算冻结10%书面报告38-43劳动部劳动力发展署及所属决议10 11 12 13 14 15 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2124.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2137.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第三目分署管理預算凍結100萬書面報告預算凍結10萬元書面報告向下北基宜花金馬分署管理預算凍結100萬書面報告向下水電費預算凍結10%書面報告向下業務費預算凍結100萬書面報告向下水電費預算凍結10%書面報告44勞動部職業安全衛生署決議1職業安全衛生署預算凍結100萬書面報告45職業安全衛生署決議2第三目 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2153.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2160.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
職業安全業務衛生安全業務預算凍結50萬書面報告46-48勞動部職業安全衛生署決議345第二幕一般行政預算凍結200萬書面報告向下水電費預算凍結10%書面報告向下特別費預算凍結10%書面報告49-56勞動部職業安全衛生署 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2177.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2202.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
決議六八九十十一十二十三十四第三幕向下一單數費預算凍結百分之十書面報告向下健全職業安全衛生管理及制度預算凍結一百萬書面報告向下建構職場安全及推動防災措施預算凍結百萬書面報告向下強化職業安全衛生與推動勞工健康服務預算凍結五十萬書面報告向下測定職災勞工保險制度預算凍結十萬元書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2205.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2214.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
職業安全衛生業務預算凍結50萬書面報告向下獎補助費預算凍結50萬書面報告職業安全衛生業務預算凍結50萬書面報告57勞動部勞動及職業安全衛生研究所決議1勞動及職業安全衛生研究所預算凍結100萬書面報告58勞動部勞動及職業安全衛生研究所決議3第二目向下業務費預算凍結50萬書面報告59 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2231.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2247.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
勞動部勞動及職業安全衛生研究所決議是第二幕上下結合科技掌握職業衛生危害開發控制技術以降低暴露風險預算凍結100萬書面報告宣讀完畢好有關勞動部主管預算凍結報告案第59案有異議有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2258.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2263.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
針對哪幾案有異請向主席來提出以進行討論事項時我們再並處理從報告案移到這個討論案麻煩主席謝謝121013到22243134 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2287.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2293.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
35 37到3840到43我先把它念完 45 47 51 52 54到56我重來一遍 謝謝主席1 2 13到22 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2315.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2321.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
2431343537到3840到434547515254到56麻煩主席同意我們將這個報告事項轉移到討論事項 謝謝你們要不要先溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2349.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2356.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
是不是休息個十分鐘夠吧先跟陳昭志委員這邊做一個溝通我們等一下再繼續處理,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
3000.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
3022.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好 休息時間到委員會在這邊做一個說明跟報告剛剛陳昭志委員是有提出有幾案要原本這個是在報告事項裡面因為院會交賽是在報告事項所以我們沒有辦法直接就移到這個討論事項但是我們先來做這樣處理就是說剛剛陳昭志委員有提出的第一案 第二案 第十案13到22 24 31 34 35 37至3840至43 45 47 51 52 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
3031.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
3045.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
54至56這些案我們就先暫時保留好不好其他我們就均同意動之並提報院會好那我們接下來就請洪部長來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
3063.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
3074.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
先保留,等一下讓部長有時間再跟他們溝通一下主席不好意思,您可以明確講保留的意思嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
3078.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
3107.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我剛剛有特別說明因為定規交下來是把它列在報告事項裡面那基本上我們要把它挪到討論事項基本上是也要徵詢大家的意見會變成這樣那我先把它暫停保留讓部長把報告結束完之後是不是大家還有討論私底下協商的空間就請陳委員這邊來做一個審慎的定奪那就不需要不需要下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
3108.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
3124.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你懂我意思吧我這樣處理應該是比較和緩啦我們希望能有發言的機會就是留下會議紀錄的機會發言一定會在報告事項裡面原本就可以啊也是可以留下發言的紀錄啊現在就開始了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
3133.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
3156.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
應該這麼說 再強調一次運會交下來把這些要解凍案就是列在報告事項裡面那現在各位對有幾案有意見嘛 對不對那有意見我們就暫行保留暫行保留然後讓整個巡打結束完之後部長報告巡打完結束之後我們再來針對你剛剛要保留這幾個案子來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
3158.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
3179.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
討論啦,處理,但是不是把他列在討論事項啦我一定會讓你們發言啦,你不用擔心這樣可以吧,徵詢大家意見都沒有意見,好,OK好,那我就請部長來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
3191.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
3209.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主席各位首先先感謝各位對於本部及所屬機關業務的支持那大院在第11屆第二會期審議本部主管114年度預算所決議的預算凍結本部前已將書面資料76案函送大院在案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
3210.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
3237.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那請就院會交付委員會審查的17案辦理情形來做報告那敬請各位委員指教首先有關本部及所屬機關業務費之編列與執行方面本部各項業務工作均與服務民眾極為相關業務費的執行除了影響本部基本工作維持以外也會影響與勞工團體民間團體及地方政府協力合作之業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3239.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3261.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
勞工保險局是第一線為民服務機關本項業務費是為辦理勞保等社會保險及退休金業務攸關於1950萬人的權益那如未解凍為民服務行政工作將會受限恐會損及勞工加保給付及退休金請領的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3263.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3289.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那勞動力發展署及所屬業務費是辦理民眾參與職業訓練課程及就業輔導以及各地就業服務據點之承攬人力之服務及服務費用如果沒有解凍恐造成為民服務基本維運無以為繼包括多元勞動力的開發也會產生影響服務能量會與場館的運維都會有所受限 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3290.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3308.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那職業安全衛生署業務費是為辦理健全職業安全衛生管理制度建構職場安全防災措施等多項重要目標如果未能解凍恐會影響全國勞工之工作安全之成效預防及重建等重要業務之推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3310.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3321.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
勞動基金運用局業務費主要是維持辦公室基本行政營運及金融分析軟體與資訊源服務等投資資訊支出必要經費該局經 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3324.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3348.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
儘管基金規模日益增長維持營運及確保基金投資系統正常營運對於廣大勞工權益及退休生活保險至關重要勞動及職業安全衛生研究所業務費主要是用在研擬各項勞動標準草案改進安全衛生制度建構減災技術和方法等 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3351.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3374.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
经费冻结恐会影响其研究成果及推广其次对于落实劳工权益及职场平权推动方面本部每年积极办理劳动条件检查落实劳动基准法另外改善低薪问题从105年以来已经连续9年调让最低工资至于我国全时就业者每周经常性工资为1.5% |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3377.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3388.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
41.5小時那我們將持續研議更友善的友善勞工的公私彈性政策另因應性別平等工作法性騷擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3390.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3412.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
防治修正規定以編制相關宣導手冊及範本並積極與相關單位合作進行教育宣導及提供性騷擺害人各項資源與服務有關勞動力發展及跨國勞動力管理方面消除年齡歧視及促進中高齡參與的部分本部積極推動中高齡者及高 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3413.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3432.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
高齡者就业促进法与各项措施老参率将专访实行前分别增加3.26%及0.81%又为强化专访已发布中高龄及高龄者就业促进计划采分离分策略方式提升中高龄及高龄者老参率 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3433.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3452.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
補助辦理就業保險業務所需行政事務費主要是支應辦理就業服務支257位一線就業服務人員及相關服務人員的人事費用111年至113年度辦理求職推介就業人數中投保就業人數有55873人到40,000 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3459.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3482.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
8164人不等為周全私立救福機構異常事件之通報義務規劃將移工因故死亡案件通報流程納入現行規定並請各單位地方政府勞工主管機關並同協助處理相關事務令修正評鑑要點確認仲介機構如實提供服務有關強化節能措施提升用電效率方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3485.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3501.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
為確實強化各項潛能措施本部已擬定勞動部及所屬機關用電效率提升計劃本部勞工保險局勞動力發展署高屏東分署技能檢定中心與勞動及職業安全衛生研究院 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3502.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3523.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
研究所均以依據本部用電提升計畫定定其成並搭配短期及長期策略按部就班提升用電效率能源節約能源及節省經費支出最後機關自行維運社群粉絲團與媒體政策及業務宣導方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3525.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3544.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
本部脸书粉丝团自外提供服务以来各单位皆由指派同仁一起参与微运工作后续将透过工作群组分享逐步提升本部同仁经营社群媒体的能力令职业安全卫生署为提升强化全民公安意识透过内政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3544.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3564.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
警政署警察廣播電台及各種多元管道以更貼近人民的方式廣泛觸及不同族群的勞工朋友宣導職業安全衛生相關職能本部僅遵照決議事項積極辦理以上各項運算均是業務所需敬請各位委員多多支持並會事指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3570.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3594.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好 謝謝部長的報告那接下來有關本次的會議各項說明資料均列入紀錄 刊登公報現在來做詢問 做一下宣告第一 本會委員詢問時間6加5分鐘列行委員時間1分鐘 失聯辦截止發言登記委員如果有順便質詢 請於3月前提出一舉不受理暫定失聯辦休息10分鐘本次會議不處理臨時提案現在請登記第一位委員陳昭志委員來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3599.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3599.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3607.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3630.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
部長辛苦部長我想跟您討論這個外移工權益的問題我相信部長知道這個報告吧這個報告是美國的非營利勞團團體叫透明組織Transparent他們今年發布的報告那他們調查了台灣有90幾位這個紡織業的移工然後寫出這個報告你看他的標題看了很難過耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3632.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3635.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
他的報紙是台灣紡織業的勞工剝削我直接翻譯他們訪問這九十幾位紡織業的移工發現了很多像侵害勞工權益的證據包括收取買工費 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3646.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3674.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
服務費防止逃跑的押金扣留身分證件執行宵禁恐嚇跟威脅欺騙等等部長我知道你你看過這個報告所以你有講過這個嚴查嚴辦那我想知道不好意思你到現在為止你做了什麼嚴查嚴辦做了什麼跟陳仁說明確實台灣我們相關的制度過去在國際上面一直有 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3675.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3703.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這樣子的有很多等一下我會舉例被批評的就這個部分被批評的地方因為你回答了嘛那剛剛陳委員講到包括像收取買工費那也包括一些不合理的包括一些債務透過債務的方式透過債務的方式來控制移工我想其實我們這段時間其實也一直在我們一直在檢討我們一直在檢討接下來的移工的相關的政策也包括像剛才講到買工費 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3704.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3725.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
其實過去常常會把相關的重要的文件不是現在不是現在開始開會其實比方說很多的買工費的收取他是透過比方說可能會扣住你重要的身份文件所以我們其實這段時間也把這些重要的身份文件把它給網路化線上 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3727.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3747.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
移工也可以去做申請希望能夠降低被收取買工費的機會就是整體啦這件事情我們都在進行你整體的進度那我就是跟你要一下那個會後我要一下說你們現在進度到什麼程度沒問題因為我還有很多相關的一樣的問題因為這個事情我們也非常非常關鍵很重要因為國際都知道這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3748.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3777.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那根據訪談資料許工移工表示他們當然你提到了他的護照被工廠保管了我要提醒部長根據國際勞工組織他的認定保留身份證件他是強迫勞動指標之一這個就是最壞的指標就是保留人家的身份證工人如果沒有身份證的話可能會覺得沒辦法離職也沒辦法使用一些服務甚至害怕他根本不敢去跟政府做任何的這個要求協助那 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3778.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3803.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
報告裡有提到這個報告還提到說台灣的法律只要獲得工人同意僱主可以保管護照這是合法的但是美國國務院在2024年的人口販運報告中指出台灣這個僱主往往能夠輕易的脅迫移工自願交出身份證件他這個自願你看他還打了引號voluntary |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3804.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3819.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
就是說他這個自願很有問題就是說他們的自願是真的自願嗎還是被迫這個是美國國務院的報告勞動部是不是要修法要全面禁止這個雇主擁有或拿走押注 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3820.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3840.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個移工的這個證件跟我們說明吼現在在人口放育防治法裡面其實已經有把相關規定給納入那接下來我們也願意在救福法裡面在修訂救福法的時候來檢討跟修訂跟著人口放育防治法來修訂我們願意願意改就是把它入法因為這件事情是不應該被允許的 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3842.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3855.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
護照被扣除這其實就是會有強迫勞動那目前是合法的所以你這個部分你同意要修法提出修法沒關係部長你說了算我們願意在這次來做法規檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3856.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3882.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那調查報告也提到一個長久來被詬病而且讓台灣老實說在國際上惡名昭彰的一件事就是仲介服務費這件事我從徐部長開始我就一直質詢到現在雖然勞動部都說服務費不是強制的就是有服務才會有收費但是理想很豐滿現實上很骨感就是要有服務才能收費這個說法很多移工說我沒有看到因為這個調查報告寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3883.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3895.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我沒有看到我沒有得到好處啊我只是每個月都交錢啊那仲介沒有提供我任何幫助啊請問部長您知道因為雖然他不是強制的請問你知道有多少移工他拒絕繳這個仲介費嗎你有統計嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3898.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3919.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
跟成員說明 其實這件事情的關鍵是在於我們自己也期望政府未來在聘僱方面的角色必須更加的強化跟功能必須更加的強化讓政府的公共服務其實在移工聘僱的過程裡面是扮演更多的角色我知道你的理想這段時間我們一直在檢討包括職聘的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3923.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3943.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那我們其實確實沒有錯我們也針對因為國際上面對於我們的服務費確實有很多的指教勞工有拒絕的權利請問你認為有多少勞工敢拒絕雇主的要求呢你認為有嗎第一個是這個服務費其實不是雇主的要求這個服務費其實是跟著仲介主要是跟著仲介抱歉我講的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3943.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3955.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那你進來就被剝削了一些費用我們現在希望能夠更強化職聘就是希望未來在這個聘僱移工的過程可以減少對仲介的依賴 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3959.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3983.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
發飾量比較鬆綁的時候您到我辦公室來我們溝通你也說有困難因為進來的移工遠遠不及需求又要排擠等等那我也理解但是我們都很清楚很告訴您之前的部長也是我們就是沒有競爭力那沒有競爭力其中一個很重要的理由就是我們就是不學其他國家的政府對政府的職聘你一直都保留這部分所以等下移工一進來他就背負了債務超過10萬甚至20萬的債務 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3986.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
4015.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
所以你就是一句話而已啊陳偉仁其實我這幾天在你沒有競爭力在APEC其實我們也跟其他的國家正在討論是不是來參考其他國家包括是在職聘或者是更多的政府角色的做法其實這件事情我們確實目前是在規劃中希望你以勞運出身的這個部長能夠真的把這件事放在心裡這件事情我們在強化職聘制度規劃中所以我們就是希望接下來可以再減少對仲介的依賴 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
4016.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
4021.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
讓政府的角色可以承擔更多的責任這是這裡面最大的關鍵是在這個地方那紡織業你再回到剛剛因為他是勞力密集的一個出口產業那高度仰賴移工所以國際上會非常關注2016年美國白宮論壇就把台灣紡織業的勞權問題視為焦點尤其是仲介服務費這一塊那當時有警告他警告我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
4038.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
4048.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
就是說如果你不改善影響這個就會影響出口但是快要九年十年過去問題還沒有改變那現在的問題說你現在碰到川普的關稅戰那對台灣的這個紡織產業很多產業但尤其這紡織產業來說是雙重打擊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
4054.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
4068.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以勞動部你真的要好好思考如何解決國際上對台灣移工的這些與這是雙重的嘛你本來就有這個問題嘛勞權的問題你現在又不要要去談判了那紡織業又是這個出口最重要的一個部分啊部長才對你也承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
4071.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
4081.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
確實我們現在有沒有看到現在在很多國際上面是有在討論像公平聘僱像這樣子一個很重要的主題就是之前委員剛剛指教的這些議題就是公平聘僱的議題我們其實有留意到這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
4090.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
4112.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
其實從勞動部的角度當然現在產業的談判這部分是我們的談判團隊在跟美方在進行談判可是我想我們從勞動部的角度我們很重要的角度是我們是要顧住勞工權益的部分不管是本勞或者是移工我想這是我們勞動部最重要的出發點或是在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
4113.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
4119.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
另外有一群很需要你幫忙的是身障及早療兒童家庭這個團體的陳情因為目前身障兒童的申請外籍看護的條件跟成人一樣要非常嚴重我想右邊這個圖你非常熟悉但是這個爸爸媽媽們認為中輕度的一個兒童或 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
4129.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
4144.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
他們在這個如果他的黃金療癒時間是前六個月那如果在18歲以前能夠繼續持續做復健的話其實未來有很高的比喻他們有回到這個跟社會是接軌的啦所以這樣他們需要有一些鬆綁的一些標準讓他們第一個讓家長能夠繼續工作嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
4147.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4174.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
繼續工作照顧他的家庭能夠專注於幫助這些孩子進行這個早療的這個復健所以他們不是只有喘息的服務需要或短期服務他們需要是一個比較長期的協助不然我覺得期間有限我告訴你先進障礙目前有5萬多人但其中這個屬於這一群的人因為很重重重度可以嘛大概有84%4萬多那早療通報目前有3萬多那加起來有8萬個家庭在期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4175.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4194.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
柏俊你可不可以去研議一下這8萬個家庭他們需要特別照顧的這些孩子的家庭有沒有辦法幫幫他們我跟陳委員報告因為這個議題它比較大的程度會是關於我們很多身心障礙包括我們這些可能比較需要幫助的小孩他們整體的照顧政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4195.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4211.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這個整體的照顧政策我們當然願意我們當然願意在這個部分跟衛福部來合作或者是來討論我們願意可是因為這個事情這個議題本身它是我們包括是早療包括生長兒童整體的照顧政府的照顧政策的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4212.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4217.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那尤其這裡面 我想問一下你的態度你的態度 你要不要照顧這群人有沒有準備想辦法照顧這群人陳委員我要說明一個政策可能不是只是簡單我說我們願意跟衛福部來討論這件事情因為尤其是早療跟身障兒童其實他在照顧方面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4228.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4237.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
門檻比較高很多事都是跨部會的對 它會涉及到所以我說就跨部會的角度來說我們願意跟衛福部來做這個事情的討論我們願意跟衛福部來討論這個議題怎麼樣更多的來協助早療跟生長兒童可是這個可能不是一個單一片面很寶貝嘛 照顧他們最後一個問題對 但是它是一個整體的照顧政策的問題身心障礙照顧政策的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4250.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4266.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
真的很辛苦你好好照顧口罩國家對這個宏偉報出經營不善有員工出來控訴說突然沒了工作沒了收入然後去跟勞工局申請失業補助的時候才知道說宏偉根本沒有幫他們繳勞健保費那個過去我們三不五時就會聽到經營不善然後勞工整個失業了然後沒有勞健保費換句話說這些公司沒有繳勞健保費這件事本身勞動部地方勞工局都沒有辦法預防嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4277.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4301.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
你看到勞健保費繳不出來你就知道經營有問題啦為什麼要讓到最後爆炸了呢讓勞工直接去面對呢跟委員這邊做說明就站在確保勞工的一個權益上面如果公司今天有從勞工的薪資裡面扣繳保費那沒有繳交給勞保局在勞保條例17條規定裡面只要勞工提出相關的證明文件一樣是可以保險給付不受權益的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4302.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4319.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
沒有交勞健保費啊那你說讓業者你應該在防範那你的問題還是說等他出問題了才處理就是說他們勞健保費欠繳你就讓他欠繳囉那電廠基金欠繳你就讓他欠繳喔然後等勞動部等出事了勞工失業了然後勞工自己來救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4320.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4343.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這不是方法嗎 你不是在最後的時候委員這邊再做一個補充喔就是說勞保局這邊平常在做保費的一個吹角如果遇到投保單位這邊欠費達一定程度我們會依相關法令的規定來通知地方主管機關某個程度你就要去關注跟處理這個問題 不然受害就是勞工嘛而且勞工根本不知道他的老闆沒有幫他繳勞健保費嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4344.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4369.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我的重點在這個地方因為你現在談的是保費的部分那保費的部分當然我們有一定程度來去要求他趕快來補繳但是受害的是勞工經營不善的部分但其實坦白說這個欠繳的企業也不見得都是經營不善的我們也看到有一些經營很不錯的有欠繳稍微看看有些就是沒有繳的開始有出問題的機會很高因為這是你要照顧勞工基本權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4370.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4388.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
所以我們是可以來看,如果有欠繳狀況時間比較長的話,我們重點來關注你可以做吧,勞動部要保護勞動部嘛,勞動部要保護勞工嘛就知道我們路會走到那裡來,那我們現在就讓這條路不要走下去我們可以重點來關注,如果欠繳時間比較長的好,謝謝部長,謝謝主席好,謝謝接下來請林月琴委員來做選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4409.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4410.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
主席 麻煩我們的勞動部部長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4420.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4445.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
部長早有些東西針對於解凍的來想跟你做一個討論根據大法官釋字第549號的解釋那個勞工保險的依屬年輕的青年人資格包括配偶小孩跟受到被保險人生前撫養並有共同生活適時的兄弟姊妹那在勞工保險條例的規定裡邊在限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4447.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4468.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
被保險人的投保期間內死亡這些對象是可領取那如果在退保後的死亡的話可領一半那這些法條都有不斷的有民眾去反映說生前撫養被保險人的兄弟姊妹或者沒受到被保險人的撫養的兄弟姊妹在被保險人死亡後兄弟姊妹事實上是沒有請領資格等同於 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4470.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4497.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
處罰單身的條款所以本席認為儘管無法滿足民眾的需求至少應該要有充分的資料去支持政府的立場好像民眾說明而不是一句說大法官解釋就糊弄過去因為所以本席認為這個解凍的條件是希望能夠評估這項修正預估涉及的人數跟增加的費用這部分你們都沒有給我回覆所以是不是可以請部長這邊答 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4500.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4519.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
跟委員報告就是當然這個議題主要是勞保的單身條款那主要是依照我們91年大法官會議解釋的49號解釋認為說移屬今天是所得的替代那目的是在避免移屬生活無依那所以要受被保險生前撫養為條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4521.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4550.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這個我都知道是不是我當初希望你們如果假設去做修正的話那涉及的人數跟增加費用是多少我主要是先請你們預估那才會為下一步的如果要去修正的話那個鋪陳有沒有可能性可是我覺得到至今都還是沒有收到這些資料有關柴菇的部分其實我們也處理了但是其實在前提的部分主要是涉及到大法官會議解釋那這個案子我們在104年的時候也曾經提過修法的查案送到現在我現在就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4551.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4570.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我想知道資料我並沒有說你們要不要修正我現在想知道說如果一旦修正的話那個財庫的狀況到底是什麼我只是要資料可是也一直都沒有拿到你就一直在跟我們解釋說大法官解釋怎樣也就是我們現在民眾的感覺你們每次解釋的是說我只要是你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4574.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4603.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
現在如果估算出來過往的經驗裡面先估算出這樣子的金額大概在多少這種資料不能給嗎這個問題其實是說前提是這個議題能不能放寬那能放寬的時候我們才來去處理財估那主要是因為大法官會解釋以及各個社會保險的聯動關係那當然這個部分我覺得反過來講就是因為想知道這種估算才知道說未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4603.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4629.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
可能會應對的狀況是什麼所以我不知道為什麼資料不能給是來部長是不是可以麻煩一下第一個是就是我們我們就來一個禮拜內提供給委員初步的估算好不好好謝謝部長因為這一直存在一個爭議不是一張紙說沒有通過申請公文就可以平息而且我覺得真的要如果真的有真的後面有自然難行也要有個精準的數據之後來做說明那 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4633.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4633.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
接下去想問的是針對本席我相信部長也聽過我講好幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4641.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4667.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
介林退休年齡還一段時間的像55歲以上他就遭受到雇主逼退或是優退的這個社會問題是存在的從我進來我們收到蠻多案子然後就每次諮詢的時候都會問那這次在預算省的時候我們也再度的提出來就是說你等於是55歲就離開了這樣職場那這些我們又缺工可是因為雇主的心態是說因為他已經到主管級的話那當然他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4667.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4680.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
薪水偏高那我把它優退之後我可以聘比較稍微薪水可以偏低的來做主管所以我覺得希望能夠提出一些解方來所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4681.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4704.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我本來提出來解凍條件是請勞動部針對未滿65歲遭受到僱主提出提前退休獲得離開原有職位去做一些調查那可是始終質詢也沒辦法拿到然後在講說東野預算是希望你們還是可以提出來這個可是現在也都還是沒有任何我們希望做一個調查計畫可是到現在還是沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4704.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4731.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
為什麼 公務員報告對我們也很關心這個部分上次在預算處理的時候那因為事實上他被勸休退他就是說不管是勸休退的話自己提醒退休的話我們會請縣市政府來協助我現在要的 不好意思我要的不是我是說一直希望你們去做調查去了解這種狀況那我在跟統計處我想說我們可以來調查 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4732.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4743.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
好好好謝謝部長那第三個就是針對於我們身心障礙現代120萬的人那113年身心障礙者的勞動人口跟非勞動人口的比例是22比78 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4746.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4772.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
15歲以上的大概參與率是21.9失業率是7.1那身心障礙者勞動力需要政府提供就業服務者大概32.5%那身心障礙非勞動力有工作能力的大概占14.4%有工作意願的占7.7面對這樣的數字我有兩個關注的問題就是身心障礙勞動力是不是能夠充分就業跟非勞動力有工作能力者 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4772.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4797.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
是不是可以被發掘出來獲得工作的機會所以在台灣的現在狀況底下我們期待勞動部是不是可以提出身心障礙者一般性的工作還有提出的意思是提出就是針對於身心障礙一般性工作推介的促進方法跟推動的時程規劃避免用庇護工 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4797.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4814.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
做庇護性的工作現在幾乎都聲音上來都是說他去庇護工廠工作來混充這些數據啦所以想問喔因為我當初勞動部的解診報告裡面我是不是可以提出一個你們回應我的我這個要求事實上是希望提出有更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4815.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4840.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
就是你們給我的是你們現行的就業的促進措施這些措施不需要你們告訴我我大概就是以為查閱我想問的是精進的有沒有針對於身心障礙的這個勞動力到底有沒有充分就業還有就是非勞動力的整個工作者到底能不能被發掘來讓他們有工作機會好 跟陳委員說明跟你委員說明第一個是其實這幾年在這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4844.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4868.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
申請法通過後包括我們定額禁用的這個組合的單位比率其實一直有在創新高我覺得這邊的努力是有效果的那第二個是我們其實接下來我們其實也是在研擬關於身份障礙者在職場的合理調整的行政指導那我們這部分也會有幫助如果更多的職場他可以在這個合理調整上面能夠做得更好的話也會有助於 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4869.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4897.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那再來是我們其實現在也在擬定要規劃這個職業重建服務的對象也包括我們整體職業重建服務的量能那這裡面也包括植物災設計的部分我們也希望能夠做得更仔細我想這些做法其實當然都是希望能夠讓身心障礙者在就業上面一些更精進的做法它可能不是只是既有的而已是 博士長我相信你也了解我覺得四人四業單位跟公務體系一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4898.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4917.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
都有一個定額的禁用的制度可是台灣產業大概就是我們的是中小企業比較多所以所開出來的職缺相對的少為什麼因為我們中小企業比較多你要買一百人才要拼用身心障礙所以有些甚至雇主大家就直接我給你我繳錢給你我不要拼身心障礙者 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4918.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4938.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
所以我覺得勞動部我覺得應該要去思考到有沒有真的讓實際上而不是用庇護工廠來讓他們作為一個就業機會而已所以我剛才講的裡面我剛才跟你報告這裡面我們並沒有特別提到庇護工廠庇護工廠當然是另外一個區塊可是我剛才在講到包括定額禁用包括職場的合理調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4939.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4958.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那也包括很直接的職業重建這當然都是一個高度的專業我們希望把這些專業的能量可以做得更好那部長也在提醒就是尤其是經脹者有時候他們對人際溝通是有一些困難的所以勞動部這邊未來有沒有什麼樣的對策因為他們到職場當中有時候會碰到這樣子的一個障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4960.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4971.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們有辦理金帳者的社區支持計畫然後透過金帳者的支持性就業服務員協助他們順利進到一般社區有辦理金帳者的社區支持計畫透過金帳者的支持性就業服務協助他們順利轉錢到一般的職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4980.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
5007.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那最後就是針對於外籍那個家庭的安護的看護工裡面照顧訓練的精進做法所以想問的是就是移工的照顧服務訓練不是在比誰上課時數多是要看授課後的結果所以想問移工的海外訓練的結果具備本國照護 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
5008.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
5030.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
服務員的功能嗎 功力嗎其實就訓練的時數來說當然我認為跟本國的照顧服務員在技能上面我認為可能還是會有差距的是 那怎麼去補足因為國外訓練然後現在我們進來之後又馬上希望能夠立即上工 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
5032.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
5060.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
對那當然在訓練上面我們是是可以來做這些課程的強化我們這是當然這是要跟母國的單位去做合作可是可是確實沒有錯就是跟本國的訓練包括他的受訓的強度甚至薪資都還是會有落差這是目前確實目前的現況是部長所以想問喔勞動部到底對於海外的訓練中心有沒有查驗的制度知道他們整個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
5061.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
5083.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
上課的怎麼去確保這些品質跟我們說明確實我們現在在整體一共的政策裡面我們在做整體的檢討這個檢討也包括我們是不是有多一點其實可以在海外瞭解招募包括簡訊相關簡或訊相關的能量這部分我們的確現在是在檢討中 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
5084.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
5108.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那另外一個這樣子的時數跟收費狀況尤其是海外訓練勞動部到底有沒有確實確保就是那個時數有沒有灌水有時候是為了多收錢這種狀況跟委員說明一下有關海外訓練的部分原則上呢是由海外的仲介公司所提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
5109.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
5136.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那入台之後呢我們也發現普遍僱主反映他們的語言方面還有技能方面不夠純熟所以本署也在針對這個部分呢提供入境後的一些學科以及語言方面的訓練時數那這個部分呢也有實體的也有數位課程都可以供這個僱主來提供選擇所以目前我們是有在開辦那也有一定的訓練那這個資料我們可以提供給委員再麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
5138.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
5161.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那最後還是期待就是這事項是我一直很關注的所以今天可能後面資料再麻煩提供給我們有的我們針對於像就業促進的話再麻煩我覺得部長多費心 以上謝謝好 謝謝林委員好 謝謝那接下來請陳勤恩委員來做選答 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
5167.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5171.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
謝謝主席 謝謝各位委員 那我也想請洪部長來請部長謝謝部長 這個應該也是您非常關心的啦 很多人都知道你也是棒球迷嘛新一屆的這個職棒球員工會理事長已經出爐了那上一任呢 陳傑憲他在當理事長的時候 他作為一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5194.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5208.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
首例就是運動產業首次的團體的協約那當然明訂了工作條件福利保障以及選手代表的制度性地位等等當時勞動部從旁有扮演非常多輔導的角色建立這個互動 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5210.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5231.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好那我們新的工會理事長他上任之後他說他就有一個新的目標他希望可以催生團體協約2.0那這邊列出一些他很在意的內容給部長參考第一個他希望可以制定像是大聯盟有的這樣子溝通平台也就是說他希望有例行性的制度性的讓大家一起坐下來談的勞資關係小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5234.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5256.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那第二個呢他是希望可以更促進選手的權益這些權益就當然包括說比如說高溫白天正中午希望可以演賽啊等等這一類那第三點就是也是國外的一個趨勢希望說贊助選手的廠商要用選手的肖像結果需要自己的球團等同意等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5258.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5273.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
希望可以改變這樣子肖像權的問題那以上這個三大目標是他在當選那天提出來的這些他未來希望做成的目標但是現在他們很擔心的事情就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5275.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5301.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
這個林萌的蔡其昌會長他可能2027是會卸任那吉利吉勞鞏冠他是2028才會再換人所以他們很害怕說在談這個一兩年的進度可能談到一半會長就換人所以在這邊會希望說藉由這個機會可以跟勞動部部長說是不是可以請勞動關係師來幫忙因為你們有一些團體契約很不錯的案例可以從旁去輔導分享給他們然後協助他們這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5304.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5328.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
其實這幾年團體協約的進展其實是蠻好的就是各工會那我想針對這個職棒全員工會提的這個我們會全力全力來協助好所以你們可以主動來跟工會還有主動跟聯盟都做接洽嗎而且我們其實也參與他那天的會長的交接所以我們會全力協助所以您對於這三點他在意的內容您覺得是審慎樂觀的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5331.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5352.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我不是說審慎樂觀但是我們會全力協助好那下一個呢關於這個4100億的特別預算我們有看到說勞動部也佔了其中的一部分嘛其中就包含所謂的受衝擊再就業簡單來說就是協助這些可能會面臨失業的勞工為主是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5354.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5377.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
這個部分確實是比較是針對如果已經受到關稅如果衝擊那或者是產生的失業那我們要怎麼樣協助他們重返職場那甚至是這個可能會希望能夠做到比過去的這個失業勞工的協助再更進一步所以我們會整合進更多其他的就業服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5377.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5394.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
好所以我呢在5月2號其實有跟您所資但是其實過了快半個月今天早上才拿到再就業計畫相關的說明資料因為您有好幾個再就業計畫我想知道說之前的成效是如何啦那 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5395.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5412.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
之前我看您當立委的時候其實常常質詢這個議題您說到說台灣婦女的再就業跟日韓比是偏低的那您在APEC也有講到這一類的議題那這個是我們跟你們所知13天之後才終於早上拿到的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5414.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5441.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
在113年你們協助了針對這個婦女部分協助婦女在就業計畫38000人重返職場那你們認為是有達到原本你們訂的3.5萬人可是我覺得本席覺得非常可惜的是這個預算的執行率是25.5%也就是說大部分這38000人很可惜是沒有辦法請領到你們的補助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5442.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5459.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
那針對這一點您有什麼想法是不是可以提升我們其實對於目前的這個預算的執行率我自己也不滿意所以我們新任的黃署長上任後他在4月的時候上任後我其實也交付給他一個重要的任務是要把我們這些就業的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5461.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5477.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
因為就業計畫裡面它不是只是一支它其實是很多支相關的計畫那有些計畫之間有一點彼此的重疊都有那所以有時候也會影響彼此之間執行的效能所以我會請在4月的時候我就請黃署長接下來我們會一個關於這些就業計畫的總體檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5480.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5507.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
會有一個總體檢的計畫就是希望能夠把這些相關的諮詢率可以做到更到位或幫助的人可以更多當然我們看到是有一些我們這個一些KPI是有達到可是我自己是希望能夠做到能夠協助到的尤其是拿到我們的獎勵包括拿到我們獎助的人其實可以更多那這部分我們可能包括我們什麼時候可以看到您的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5508.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5535.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
新的方案因為黃處長其實也剛上任他四月的時候上任那因為計畫很多那因為這個檢討他不是單一計畫的檢討他其實可能是幾十支計畫同時要檢討所以這部分我想我是給黃處長大概三個月以上三個月的時間那我們三個月三個月跟您追一下你們想要怎麼改善這些再去因為我也很關心這個部分我覺得確實我們可以做得更好的空間好 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5536.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5562.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
再來這也是這幾天很多網友他們可能在討論的下一張執政黨委員他們有提到說多放假很擔心勞工會被AI取代我們想知道勞動部長對這一件事情的看法如何我想AI的普及其實確實本來就會有相關的勞動的議題這是一個很多學者相關的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5563.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5583.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那但是我講因為現在但是這跟放假有關係對所以我說現在國定假日的這個條例通過以後我想從勞動部的角度我們其實就是應該要依法來協助這個條例的執行我想我們態度就是這樣子對但是AI跟放假有關嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5584.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5603.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我想AI本身是一個議題那針對國定假日的議題我們我想我們勞動部的態度就是我們該依法通過的法律來協助這個條例的執行尤其是兼顧到這個勞工的相關的權益比方說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5604.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5627.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
雇主真的勞工同意要在國定假日要出勤的話你是要給雙倍工資的像這樣子的提醒跟這樣協助的執行我想這是我們勞工部在修法通過以後我們會來做的是 理解好 那在這邊簡單的跟部長報告為什麼AI跟放假並沒有特別的相關因為AI它取代的是簡單或者是重複性高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5628.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5647.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
事情但是這件事情放假他是保障勞工的權益所以部分技術被取代跟保障勞工的權益其實這兩個議題是不能混為一談的啦那在這邊比較希望部長重視的地方是說因為根據勞動部自己的一個大調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5649.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5676.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
3%的企業已經開始使用AI作為面試協助的工具那34%正在考慮使用可是最近我們國際上有發現說像Amazon他們之前用他們內部的數據去做他們從2014年開始研發結果他們2015年就發現說哇 他們用之前的數據會反映出可能履歷表出現女性會被扣分因為他們過去的聘用紀錄大部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5677.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5706.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
評估的是男性所以他們2014年開始研發結果他們2018年就決定放棄這個實驗性的系統了那另外其他的這個華盛頓大學他也去做了大規模的分析他發現說如果你用AI在做評估履歷的時候有可能比如說男性的姓氏會被評比較高分或是黑人的姓氏就比較容易被評低分所以無意中他會加劇原本存在的職場歧視的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5707.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5728.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
所以部長也知道說我們這個AI基本法其實這個禮拜在立法院有密切的被討論的聯席的會議所以我們會想追一下您的進度因為之前勞動部有針對就業市場使用AI的相關規範以及指引希望可以提出一個指引這個進度如何呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5729.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5750.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我想剛剛陳委員提到其實就是其實也很多人都提醒了在AI的使用裡面它可能會強化某些主流觀點的偏誤跟主流觀點的產生的歧視所以這也是在這裡面尤其在運用在職場上面大家需要注意的問題所以我想其實我們確實現在也在擬定相關的指引的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5750.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5780.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
各位報告總共有三個指引會在今年年底會完成今年年底對就業歧視的部分好那在這邊其實只是稍微提醒這個是歐洲的2024年通過的人工智慧法案他是在規定說在招聘的時候要注意這以下比如說透明度或是資料的品質有沒有偏誤人為的監督和干預還有AI的素養培訓希望在這邊給部長建議把這些國際上把求職列入的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5781.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5810.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
也可以放到您的指引當中我想這些問題其實是在使用AI裡面大家共同會面對到的問題所以我們其實也會跟一些相關AI應用的專業者來討論我們怎麼來克服這些問題因為這是大家共同的問題這也不是只有台灣會面對這件事情是 好 謝謝部長謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長委員會在這邊做宣告我們到文藝民委員宣達結束後會休息十分鐘接下來請邱政經委員來做宣達 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5816.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5835.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
主席好,我請洪部長我剛剛聽了一下,今天我們在談解凍案,解凍案現在送進來之後,我們未來應該要加快執行的進程 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5837.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5860.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
當然就是我們希望別人的預算都可以如期的來執行我現在比較好奇就是說現在我們地方的補助款現在是50%嗎地方的補助款哪方面的補助款就是我們勞動部補助地方的有限制嗎其實我想不同的項目不同的計畫會有不一樣我講會影響就給地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5865.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5880.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
你說預算凍結或刪除會不會造成影響行政院這邊不是說先減少給50%嗎對這部分但是指的是明年度的預算因為我想行政院比較主要在 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5882.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5896.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
敘述跟規劃的是針對財化法通過後那跟這個地方政府補助的部分但是可是他有些地方我看其他單位其他部會好像就已經開始實施了實施什麼50%的部分減少50% |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5897.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5917.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我想我們現在因為我們現在在討論的是114年的預算跟114年的預算的解凍所以我知道我現在是問別的目前114年的預算目前是還沒有用財化法在做相關的規劃跟分配所以勞動部還沒有就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5917.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5936.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
對我們現在就是按照114年的預算變略來去處理勞動及就業平等業務這項預算我問了好幾次你一直在反駁嘛那我就再問一次在這筆預算裡面除了產檢價賠產檢價補助是不是還有其他被質疑過去執行成效不彰的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5938.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5959.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
主要這個項目還有其他比方說落實勞基法包括是我們在協助勞政機關的培訓也包括最低工資審議那也包括減班休息相關的統計通報那也包括職場性騷擾的防治這其實是在大概花在大概一百一千 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5963.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5980.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
1170幾萬相關的這個業務都在裡面嘛你上次說你覺得你很困惑嘛對那個凍結的原因我們看一下那個我們上次講的你說為什麼要其他的牢記法的問題去影響到新手爸媽的權益當時你的表當時你是這樣認為的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5982.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5999.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
跟委員說明其實我想表達的事情是如果覺得我們在這邊有做的不足可是你卻把這方面相關的經費給刪掉那不是會對於包括勞基法的落實包括性騷擾防治反而會更不利嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
6003.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
6025.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
你先不用,就我的問題問就好了就是說你認為決議19、20就評思這一項目王振旭委員、楊耀委員、我們林業勤委員、林淑芬委員、范雲委員、陳培宇委員還有我們劉昭偉這幾位民進黨委員都針對這部分提凍結提案所以他們也是亂凍結嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
6026.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
6036.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
跟委員說明,其實我在討論的是,因為我們其中有一個提案,這個提案裡面是3減800萬,再加上凍結20%跟委員說明,我指的是,我們這個提案裡面是3減800萬,再加上凍結20%可是這些委員並沒有提3減啊凍結啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
6050.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
6079.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
但是所以我跟委員說明的時候我其實指的是我們有一個提案這個提案是三減八百萬你那天講的就是兩千你不要你那天講的是兩千你不要現在又變了那你現在我現在要講就是說你們現在的說法就是拿新手爸媽當盾牌不是委員不是其他委員講的你是挑這個在野黨的來做這個指控那其他委員都不算委員我可以委員我可以來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
6081.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6103.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這一整項裡面是九千七百萬新手爸媽的產檢陪產檢的補助是八千五百萬所以還有大概一千兩百萬左右可是這一千兩百萬是用在什麼地方我剛才說一千兩百萬是用在落實勞基法最低工資審議包括落實職場性騷擾包括我們很多性別平權相關的培訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6104.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6123.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我並不是要把這個刪減或者凍結全部是用在這個產檢陪產檢的獎補助並不是可是他一定會影響產檢跟陪產檢的獎補助因為我這一整項裡面就是給新手爸媽跟勞工剛剛落實勞基法或者是性騷擾防治相關的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6124.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6153.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我怎麼刪我都一定會影響到這個大水庫裡面你可以選擇不認錯但你也改變不了你誤導民眾刻意抹黑把正常的監督預算打成說成打壓新手爸媽這個其實就是造謠邱委員我沒有造謠你把我們大家的信任邱委員這個案子被刪減然後撿在自己身上這個刪減是事實這個民眾對你的信任爆炸那我想你既然不承認所以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6155.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6181.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
所以我在講的是事實我再問那勞動部的粉專有些貼文可以直接留言為什麼有一些設定要追滿24小時才能留言為什麼因為要追蹤24小時會有一些假帳號會有一些假帳號所以不是碰到爭議的議題你才去做所以我們還是讓大家都有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6183.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6195.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那我們同意政策就需要宣導啦尤其這個來動權益的部分不能讓人民不知道自己的權益該怎麼主張但我想請問一下我們現在社群經營的宣傳方式真的有效嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6200.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6222.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
其實在去年底就是我們也檢討我們開口契約的時候我們其實就把我們勞動部開口契約的標案給停下來了所以現在勞動部是處在一個沒有開口契約宣傳沒有開口契約宣傳標案的狀態現在有很多我們社群媒體的宣傳都是靠很辛苦的靠我們的公務同仁在協助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6223.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6248.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
所以都是自己弄就對了 沒有再做那以後咧 以後怎麼做當然以後我們還是希望能夠有專業的人專業的人士來協助可是至少我可以跟委員說現在從12月到現在就是從今年1月到現在目前都是沒有開口契約的這個宣傳沒宣標案的狀況下面我們很辛苦的努力在經營但這部分也是在檢討去年大家購併的一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6250.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6263.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
對 那所以現在是 那未來如果再發包開口合約的時候我們的一些規定我當然是希望說你們對這個整個成效要做追蹤就是說比如說我們對勞工這個勞保部 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6267.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6283.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
了解的部分勞工對工時加班權益理解不清楚的部分或者是勞工對勞動契約的誤解等等我想這些在線上都可以說明我希望說互動性要好一點你為了要變民你必須要把這個東西放在開口合約的規定裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6285.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6307.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
你現在講的是兩個層次第一個層次是我們會對於開口契約的適用範圍做出檢討做出適當的限定因為大家現在都不希望開口契約就是被擴大的使用這部分會檢討那第二個是在宣傳內容上面的成效也希望能夠提升我覺得這兩個部分我想我們都會一起加油啦我今天時間我看大家都比較忙謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6312.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6332.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
好 謝謝邱委員 謝謝部長邱委員因為你剛剛有提到我要回應一下我是有動一個五十萬但提出報告後就可以使得動之好 謝謝 謝謝誰跟你差不多好來 接下來請王玉民委員來做懸打 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6341.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6343.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請洪部長我先請教一個80歲以上有老人的家庭他們關心的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6356.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6377.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
在113年去年12月31號通過80歲以上老人免評80亮掉那你們要訂立相關執法現在已經快要半年了這個我去地方走動很多有老人家的家人都要問說委員那個不是立法通過了嗎什麼時候會實施我想我們現在目標還是在7月底8月的時候希望讓他上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6378.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6404.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
怎麼又變七月底八月 我記得第一時間你們是說半年嗎因為公告是一月啊怎麼作業時間這麼慢 你們又有什麼問題嗎就能快則快啊 立法已經通過的東西按照這個立法的原則就是半年內執法你們如果是一個有效率的部會的話 半年應該要提出來跟我們說明 其實我們在今年因為這裡面涉及到 包括我們要讓重症能夠分流 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6405.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6434.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
然後還涉及到其實有很多人力需要補食人力的裁員我們其實在上個禮拜通過救安基金委員會其實有相關的現在有相關的裁員跟人力的規劃也包括這些人力要在訓練那這裡面也還有包括我們要跟來源國來商協商要要有更多的這個這個移工的進入這裡面涉及到的層面非常非常多所以我們才會訂說這半所以才訂半年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6435.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6452.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
半年六月底就到現在已經是五月中了不是希望你們可以原來講的是半年大家現在就是六月底你現在又變成是八月不是不是這是一月二十號一月二十號公告的那你會到八月那到七月我剛剛說七月底啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6452.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6478.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
你剛剛說七、八月我剛剛說七月底我們現在的目標就是七月底希望能夠上路現在都還在程序內七月底可以正式上路好那這個是很多家裡有老人的家庭很關心的那接下來我就要問你有關這個勞保要不要破產的問題因為事實上今天有很多的解答案當時本席在提這個預算監督也非常關切勞保會不會破產的問題那你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6482.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6493.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
在那個解凍報告的時候呢你們就提出來說會再延後三年就是從原來的2028年再延後三年就是2031年這個勞保會有破產的問題不過我們如果看到潛藏負債大家還是要很嚴肅看待這個問題潛藏負債呢他也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6503.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6527.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
增加為13.23兆這是一個天文數字那這件事情我們看到民進黨執政之後這個上任的部長發明了一個就是說撥補即是改革那這個洪部長也是follow這樣的基調只要有撥補就是改革我沒有說這句話你沒有我沒有說這句話因為我記得我當時問你的時候你說撥補是改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6529.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6542.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
所以你現在委員可能記錯了我記錯了是不是好那所以你對於勞保會破產這一題上一任的部長說撥補就是改革他覺得他已經改革完畢了那請問洪部長在這件事情上你要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6544.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6572.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我想其實對於勞保的問題我們一直很嚴肅的在面對其實包括怎麼樣子讓勞保基金維持水位的做法我們其實一直主張是用多元的方式在維持水位波普是其中之一可是我們包括我們其實也在看怎麼樣把投資的效益給提高那甚至我們在整體的勞保包括去克服勞保在收取上面或者是給付上面的一些問題我們其實也很積極在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6573.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6598.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
所以這當然還是是一個很艱難的問題可是我們並沒有覺得這只是一個純粹撥補的問題所以你有打算要去更動這一個我剛剛聽到了撥補跟給付就是給付的不是我說在給付的在操作面我們怎麼樣去做確認可以如實的收到該收到的保費然後這上面其實我們也做了一些精進的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6601.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6628.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
所以呢你的那個檢討你可以提供給委員會嗎因為過去很少聽到部長在這件事情上有所琢磨你剛說我我可能是記錯了因為我當時的印象就是你認為政府會負起最終責任所以不需要進行相關的勞保的改革對不對好那你說政府要負起最終的責任本席就要問你的態度了因為本席還有其他委員其實都有提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6629.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6657.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
把政府最終支付責任入法這個已經是都送到委員會裡面來了那這件事情你會不會支持這樣的修法既然這個民進黨執政他完全沒有要去做任何的勞保的制度的改革以前還會說來研議現在是完全不研議了那在這樣的情況底下如果我們看數字當然最終這個勞保是要破產的只有政府擔起最終支付責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6658.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6684.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那可能有政府在他不會倒因為之前你們是這樣講的那如果是這樣子的話那是不是就讓他明文入法這個法修法部長你贊成嗎跟王媛說明我其實我並沒有說不研議但只是這個研議確實是必須要非常審慎那因為這確實涉及到很多勞工他們的這個退休或者是老年生活的相關的權益所以我覺得我是說這個事情要非常審慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6685.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6703.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那對於現在我想不管這個政府最終支付責任有沒有入法現在的政策就是政府負最後責任所以你不會反對這樣的修法嗎到時候進委員會討論這樣的版本我是持開放的態度開放態度好那這一個就拜託召委這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6705.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6734.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
這個我們有經過招人關心勞工的議題這個很多委員其實有提相關的版本我覺得是要讓勞工安心嘛我覺得如果政府願意扛起最終支付責任至少勞工會覺得說即使破產沒有關係只要有政府在我就領得到錢現在的政策現在的政策就是政府那你就會安心就是政府在負最終責任所以我們有裁員我們就也在思考那我們就讓他入法政府負最終的責任希望這個到時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6735.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6746.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
討論的時候大家來支持這樣的修法那另外一個我要問的是極端氣候底下的這個熱危害的部分因為這個部分的確是你可以看到具體的數字2023跟2024年比較起來6、7、8月份這個熱傷害就診人數其實都是呈現一個上升的趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6755.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6766.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
因為大家都可以看到現在極端氣候到了夏天可能外面是38度 36度在那樣的一個工作場域工作真的對於勞工的健康會產生很大的危害 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6767.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6779.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那你們自己專屬呢做的勞檢喔其實在那個戶外作業比較高風險的事業單位去勞檢那就會發現說這個一年比一年高2021年22年這個違規比例是三成然後2023年呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6785.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6807.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
其實已經來到了73%就是那個比例真的是蠻高的也代表說我們的雇主在這個部分他其實是忽略的你該有一些降溫的措施可能沒有做或者是說真的這個勞工很不舒服的時候應該其實要立刻就是有一些健康的這個風險要立刻讓他休息他可能也沒有那麼的關注那這一塊這個勞動部你們有沒有更積極的改善措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6812.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6834.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為如果我們看到這個去年是這麼高高達73%的違規那幾乎是很多這個高風險單位都沒有做到位啊七成三是蠻高的比例你們打算怎麼做這件事情你們有一個專案在檢討嗎是跟跟網友說明其實就目前整體的氣候邊界趨勢來看未來的溫度恐怕還會持續的在升高 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6835.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6856.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以當企務不斷升高的時候我想針對這個高風險熱而害的這個問題我們一定是需要花更多的資源跟力氣再去防這個去預防這件事情那我們當然現在是用職業安全的相關的措施那需要求雇主要實施可是的確沒有錯現在雇主對這方面尤其是戶外工作的雇主對這事情的意識不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6857.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6877.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
所以我想我們會第一個我們還是會加強宣導但是第二個不會只靠宣導包括我們的勞動檢查我想我們會有更多的能量放在這個地方對那是希望因為真的是如果他不去好好的面對這個問題的話我覺得未來確實在氣溫更高以後可能會有更多勞工的責任風險會是在這個地方發生這是我們很不樂見的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6878.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6904.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
好我希望這個部分這個勞動部要把他視為是一個重要的因為他危急的就是勞工的就會越來越危急對他的健康因為有些中暑是很嚴重的他可能會因為這樣子喪命所以這個部分我希望你們一個部分是加強你們的勞檢一方面就是也很具體的請專家去研議一些他具體應該有效在這樣的一個作業環境裡面如何有效去降溫 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6905.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6930.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
或是更好的防護措施去協助勞工的一些方案另外一個就是允許勞工他在一旦他一反應有不舒服他應該就可以有立刻去停工的這樣一個權利我覺得這幾項你們應該都要做一個更好的落實好不好好 剛剛我也說就是說包括可能現場的座位包括要設計休息的場所能夠讓勞工有地方可以去休息那這個休息的場所的設計跟規劃我想這會是在我們整體檢查的範圍內OK 好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6937.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6937.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
好 謝謝 先休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
7743.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
7744.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好 我們繼續開會 請黃修昂委員來做詢問謝謝主席 我們請部長來 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
7764.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
7791.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
部長好 部長這個我首先先問一下就是說我們在去年通過就是80歲以上免巴釋量表那通過之後一般的民眾以為就是說這個法通過之後就可以這個80歲申請這個免巴釋量表要申請這個外籍看護工那我想請教就是說這個法通過之後那相關的配套應該在勞動部這邊應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
7793.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
7801.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
有一些相關的配套嗎那預計這樣子的80歲免巴士量表預計是什麼時候可以開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
7803.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
7830.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
其實當時舊武法的46條修法三讀通過後其實有很配套其實是蠻龐雜的工作那包括其實因為案件量會大幅增加所以我們也要協助地方政府包括人力的增加包括要有所訓練那也包括我們要跟海外的來源國來討論增加引進這個移工的來源的量 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
7831.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
7851.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那也包括我們相關的法規系統的修訂甚至有些地方甚至還需要空間上面都需要做出改變所以我們原本是預計我們是預計大概六個月的時間所以我們預計到七月底比較能夠上路但是因為如果你不把這些相關的配套給做好的話這個很可能會對於這個移工的 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
7852.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
7876.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
聘僱的市場造成很大的衝擊跟混亂甚至會有很多其實我們現在陸續聽到其實有一些重症的家庭現在已經在擔心其實未來要聘僱到移工會更困難這也是為什麼我們在這裡面一定要希望能夠去設計一個重症跟一般分流的機制讓重症的家庭能希望能夠減少這個聘僱相關的時間成本跟阻礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7877.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7891.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那這個是一般的民眾他們以為說這個法通過之後那其實還有一些相關的配套措施那就是預計在7月就可以預計7月底接下來我想請教就是說在這個禮拜就5月20那應該是算下禮拜就是台北國際電腦展那大家在 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7905.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7920.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
看到就是說這一次的主題有很多就譬如說聚焦在智慧運算機器人 次世代科技未來移動等主題我想請教就是說勞動部在AI浪潮下勞動部的角色是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7921.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7945.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那其實很多人擔心不論是藍領或白領會擔心就是說這樣子AI的浪潮那會不會變成說這個有一些工作可能會被這個機器人所取代不論是白領或藍領都有可能被這個機器人所取代那我不知道說勞動部針對這一部分你們有什麼樣的因應措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7946.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7969.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
因為現在對於AI的應用的普及度越來越高那也在很多的層面都有應用那可是確實AI對於勞工的工作的影響可能會有好幾個不同的向度那有些人會認為AI其實也好像可以來協助克服一些缺工的問題或者是讓這個很多目前是可以讓這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7970.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7986.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
很多的職場或很多企業的運作更有效率可是他可能也會取代一些低技術的勞工目前看到的這種可能性所以他的影響的層面是很多的我想這些議題勞工部我們其實都跟相關的專業者在 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7987.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
8001.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
研擬在研討中那但是我們也在一直在觀察接下來AI的整體的發展那因為具體的發展的情境可能還是要跟著這個發展的狀況那我們可以當然可以做一些預判但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
8004.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
8022.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
這個會是國際上面我想很多的不管是很多國家的勞動部會或者是勞動部門其實都非常嚴肅跟審慎在應對的一個新的浪潮其實我之前我到我們彰化這個一個公司去參觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
8024.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
8039.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
他原本他的公司可能這樣子一個廠房裡面也許有三四十個人那現在因為他導入一些機器人機器手臂所以他這個廠房這個空間裡面只需要兩個人去操作就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
8041.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
8059.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這個你真的會嚇一跳耶這個就全部都是用這個自動化全部都自動化然後用AI用機器人連搬運的話也是用機器人這樣去搬運所以就是說可能第一個我們這當然就是說少子化然後一般的這個企業他要找 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
8060.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
8084.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
缺工的議題也是蠻大的那如果說全部就是都用這個AI來取代的話其實我覺得勞動部針對這部分應該也要有一些因應措施而且這是很大的挑戰對那未來就是說可能也許不是只有勞動部可能還有其他部會也許從這個教育方面你要進入職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
8086.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
8101.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
你可能就要先做一些訓練不論是事先的訓練或者是在職訓練我覺得這個都是一個挑戰那不知道說勞動部針對這一部分你們未來會怎麼去做因為我 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
8102.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
8128.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
很多學生再來就是畢業季再來就是畢業季學生進入職場也許他看到的可能需要有一些操作可能電腦操作或者是機器人的操作或者是原本這家公司他如果要轉型的話也是需要在職訓練那我希望就是說勞動部你們的在職訓練應該是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
8130.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
8146.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
跟企業應該要有所配合而不是你們做你們的然後企業做企業的培訓出來的人是沒辦法在第一線去直接上工的所以我是不是可以再請這個部長針對這部分你再做一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
8147.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
8174.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
好 跟委員說我們其實現在也在訂定因應這個AI應用在職場上面應用的職業相關的指引那下半年我們應該會把這些指引給做好希望提供很多企業參考但第二個也是大家最關心的事情就是在職業訓練或技能訓練上面我們確實是需要更擴大的來協助其實我們有很多勞工朋友能夠掌握相關跟AI一起協作的技能 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
8175.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
8189.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
才有辦法去提高很多勞工他在職場裡面在工作上面的價值或者是他的適應能力所以比較能夠讓這個原本可能會變成是讓AI去取代的反而你 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
8190.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
8209.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
反過來是能夠去駕馭AI或駕馭這些相對應資訊化自動化的狀況那這比較能夠因應接下來這個世代在這個AI浪潮裡面的需求我想我們在一些相關的訓練裡面也必須朝向這個方向更大步的邁進我想這其實我們心裡是有準備開始要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
8210.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
8228.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
所以部長我想請教就是說那你們也會跟企業有一些聯繫溝通就是說你們未來的執訊的項目是什麼樣的類型或者是說他們可能缺工是缺什麼樣的這個職缺那未來你們開的這個執訊這個可以銜接 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
8233.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
8261.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
而不是說你們訓練出來的可能跟他們會有一些落差我們其實現在包括跟企業合作也包括跟其他的產業主管部會合作比方說像經濟部我們應該跟經濟部來合作跟企業合作甚至跟學校我想這多方面的合作才有辦法把這個新的這個新的勞動課題跟挑戰我覺得才能夠做比較好的因應勢必是這是一個多方的協作 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
8263.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
8289.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
對 其實我覺得只要到地方去看一下真的衝擊還蠻大的就是以前可能需要很多的人力類似拋光 水滸金拋光那以前可能就是要用人工去做那現在直接用機器就可以直接用機器手臂就可以直接做了所以你看到就是說人力真的減少非常的多那未來我們這樣子的這個就業市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
8291.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
8309.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
或者是會不會因為這樣子然後被這個機器人取代或被取代那當然剛剛部長有講的就是說我們希望就是說這個AI是來輔助我們讓我們的工作能夠更有效率而不是說我們的這個工作會被這個機器人所取代 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
8310.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
8338.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我從勞工部角度來說我們認為這個AI應用的浪潮跟影響是不是一定會發生那現在的我們能夠做的是我們要強化我們去因應跟適應他的能力甚至能夠駕馭他的能力我想我們態度我們很難去去清純僥倖說這個對於就業的衝擊不會發生我們大概不能這樣去思考了所以我們其實現在在強化我們其實對勞工AI能力的訓練那 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
8339.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
8355.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
目前這一兩年下來其實也蠻有成效的我們其實每年訓練的人數也超過一萬人以上可是我們希望未來還有機會可以更多甚至更多方來合作是我剛才說的好 我們希望因為台灣一直覺得說台灣是一個AI的國家這個說不論是我們從台積電半導體什麼就是大家會覺得說應該是要從我們自己本身怎麼樣讓我們的這個台灣成為一個科技島 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
8369.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
8388.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那當然也不能因為這樣子然後造成這個不論是白領或藍領的這個失業率增加嘛是所以我們希望勞動部這邊應該也是要有一個跨部會的合作而不是只有勞動部勞動部其實也沒那麼偉大啦還有做的工作很多所以應該也是要跨部會的去合作是好不好好 謝謝王美 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
8405.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
8432.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
好 接下來請劉建國委員發言好 謝謝主席 有請黃部長請部長劉仁浩 部長好 部長可不可以說明大聲解釋一下什麼叫自愛然行跟執行自愛這應該是同樣的意思吧 應該是同樣的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
8434.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
8439.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
摯愛男性跟執行摯愛我覺得差不多的意思沒有牽扯順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
8440.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
8467.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
沒有一個是尚未啟動感覺上整個計畫就是就像我們在審查預算的過程裡面跟櫃部櫃單位綁了任何的條件那這個條件基本上就會讓你們感覺是自愛然行所以我們就會做這樣的一個回應那另外一個是應該是整個預算通過之後可能在執行上出了一些問題叫做執行的自愛所以這兩個應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
8468.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
8495.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
應該是不太一樣的意思嘛對不對就可能放在不同的語境裡面比較能夠去看出他意思的差別就不叫做放在不同的語境嘛應該是在整個執行的面向裡面一個是知道這個計畫這樣做出來可能會很難去執行那另外一個是可能執行到10%、5%就覺得在執行不下去才會叫執行之愛嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
8497.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
8516.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我這樣解釋你能不能接受我可以接受可以來理解委員的意思因為我怕你以前當委員的時候大家的這個理解都一致但是你當了部長之後跟我們的理解上就有顯著落差我很擔心這樣那這樣的溝通上顯然會有溝通上的摯愛 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
8518.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
8528.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
為什麼這麼講 因為剛剛黃修昂委員有特別提到80歲以上免巴士量表這件事情你說7月就可以如期來實施你確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
8530.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
8555.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
7月下旬7月下旬我們會還是會讓他上路是可是上路的過程裡面其實還是會我剛有補充上路的過程裡面還是會造成一些衝擊但當然我們現在的配套是希望減少這些為減少衝擊做一些努力可是確實這個法的修法通過就是對於這些重症的家庭我們就目前來預判的話還是會產生衝擊的是衝擊還是自愛 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
8559.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
8564.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我們認為會先有衝擊最後就變成自然燃刑是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
8566.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
8590.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我要提醒啦好不好部長因為剛剛特別提到很多面向你都必須要去做應變了嘛對不對人力的培訓行政上的一些措施然後還有這個外籍康復的來源國的供給然後還有這個需求者提出了相關的這些這個輕症的重症的正常的亞健康的這樣的需求你們有評估過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
8592.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
8610.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
比如說在7月下旬你開始實施的時候你可能會面對到提出申請的這個量對照過去的平均的量可能會增加多少的這樣的一個差異我們目前推估是可能會在很快的速度裡面可能會增加也許10萬這樣的量 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
8613.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
8631.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
對照以前的差異是差了幾倍這個增加當然很這個增加的幅度當然很大但是我是說這個所謂的很快不一定是那個當下馬上就會來可是我們認為它增加的速度會很快你們足以因應現在就是在為因應或者減少衝擊做整備對我希望是這樣我們不要執行到不到一個月時間就產生了很多的不可 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
8642.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
8656.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
不可逆的傷害啦還是讓人民百姓對這個政策產生很大的這樣的一個挑戰跟疑慮啦所以已經80歲以上就可以免巴士量表了那為什麼這麼難申請那這個政策的使然那執行的單位要如何去應應要如何去說明這個你們有沒有想過 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
8670.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
8697.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
現在是當然現在是在就是在規劃可是確實就是他一開始出來的量我們預計到會很大那這個很大在原本的比方說大概21萬的這個看護工的比例裡面他其實他的幅度真的是很大的所以這是我們說的那個衝擊衝擊可能會衝擊到重症確實也會有可能會有一些這個來想要來申請的民眾他在申請的到他時間上面會會 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8700.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8719.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
可能一開始的時候那我就簡單請教部長衝擊到重症你如何因應現在當然我們現在在因應的就是說把重症跟這個部分給分流可是我一樣還是說其實我們現在陸陸續續都聽到很多在重症的家庭看護工現在已經表達他們是不是未來有機會可以到 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8720.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8741.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
比較輕症的或者是80歲以上免巴氏量表的這些健康的家庭裡面去工作其實這樣的聲音已經陸陸續續出來這是我們很擔心的地方因為7月中旬的下旬你們就要實施了嘛對不對所以我是現在已經五月中旬了不到兩個月時間我希望你們可能要做完事的具備 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8743.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8763.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那第二件事情我再請教部長我也在這個委員會昨天請教彭部長然後彭部長這邊有提出了相關的一些計畫跟報告他就說環境部發布綠領人才就業的趨勢報告2024平均每月徵求的2.2萬名的綠領人才8年的他的標速成長會達到3.29倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8766.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8784.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這個AI人才的缺口甚至還會超越喔甚至還會超越那個博文部長也這樣認為說未來隨著法規屈原國際這個減碳壓力升高預估未來五年內綠林子缺將有一到三倍的成長空間市場對於具備這個碳管理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8786.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8814.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
與減排知識的人才需求持續增加所以環境部在今年3月成立的這個敬禮綠領人才的培育聯盟在北中南東四個區域成立的這個區域培育中心藉由這個國內的大專院校讓民眾可以就近的來接受敬禮綠領人才培訓的課程4月26號就已經啟動了第一班了在台師大然後第一班的學員平均的年齡37歲社會人士有八成以上據說是學位以上的有達7、38 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8815.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8840.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
所以只有工程師業務人員行政助理會計總務等等顯示這個勞工群組對這樣的課程有高度的興趣而且願意進修但是這個勞動部好像跟環境部目前相關的課程都還沒有進行對接應該是環境部有相關的課程勞動部有相關的課程那我們接下來預計我們其實在這些課程或者是合作班訓上面要來進行合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8841.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8866.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
對我時間有限齁我昨天問彭部長的時候他是這麼打呼我啦齁我請教他部長這個對失業的勞工有沒有很大的幫助啦彭部長回答我是非常大的幫助是這樣是對那你們勞動部又有一個像產業人才的投資計畫的資源可以補助勞工參訓80%到100%的訓練費用每人喔每年三年內最高可以補助到10萬塊是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8868.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8895.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那你們櫃部跟這個環境部也有對談喔也談了4次了之前有談過可是 談了4次了其實在近期會跟捧場我們會針對就是變成是不是近期啦 你們明天就見面了嘛 是是是你們底下幕僚可以談了4次然後你們的那個勞洛署主秘要跟我講說錢不是問題是相關細節還沒有談妥是 我們在討論因為這包括要跟民間團體進行一些合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8896.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8909.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我是覺得這速度有點慢了啦這樣的因應作為是有點不太及格啦當然是前面有問題細節還談不出來然後你的近期是明天就要見面的那是不是明天就可以談出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8912.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8931.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
因為你們兩個都在部會也算是中心位的應該行動力還有智慧都非常高的我們會希望能夠擴大合作現在我們是希望能夠擴大合作而且其實會有一些資源我們不希望重複浪費所以其實這個合作會互相的支援黃部長答應我一個星期內應該就可以跟你談出來的那你能不能一併答應 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8932.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8961.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
可以啊可以好 謝謝他說一個星期是不是對 沒有錯在這邊講話都不能有絲毫的這個虛假跟作為是好 那就大家都一個星期好 謝謝然後勞動部在5月4號又一篇報導一篇新聞是這麼講台灣雙子化趨勢越來越明顯為了補足勞動力的缺口勞動部所訂的中高齡的群組那未來四年就是今年開始為期四年目標每年要增加12萬的中高齡及高齡者續留或從晚職長 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8962.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8965.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
換言之是你要增加48萬的中高齡勞動大軍你這48萬怎麼來怎麼推估的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8971.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8991.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我給你一個非常開的計畫 勞動部目前的計畫是如果僱主繼續僱用借齡的退休勞工勞動部會提供僱主前六個月每月補助1.3萬第七到十八個月補助到每月1.5萬那僱主每小時花給七十代八十元最高25.8萬要繼續來僱用這個高齡者促進整個經驗傳承與世代合作對不對沒有錯嗎這期一嘛好多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
9001.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
9017.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這個多少人這個目前補助多少人已經在執行了目前你們四年要增加到48萬嘛一年就要12萬嘛那你這個項目裡面你現在目前為止執行了多少人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
9018.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
9033.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
目前要增加每年要重返職場的中高齡十二萬的目標那去年度一百一十三年有達到十二萬五千人十二萬五千人就超標了對不對那我又跟你肯定嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
9036.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
9057.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
但是在執行相關的就業促進津貼的措施因為相關的就業促進津貼措施有相關的一些條件還有補助的一些內容我知道你們有很多項目很多計畫對不對好那去年有達標對不對但是就業津貼的部分仍在持續加強因為就業津貼補助有多少人是人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
9059.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
9078.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
以55歲以上的就業租促進津貼的獎勵措施 去年度是執行1050人1050人去年度但是他是55歲以上對嘛 55歲嘛我現在是你們自己講的48萬的中高齡勞動大軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
9083.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
9107.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
然後你這個計畫裡面才一千多人我跟各位說明其實就是說其實我們希望能夠讓中高齡能夠重新進入到職場的這個數字是有可是我們其實在發出我們相關的這個補助獎補助的人數確實是比較少那這部分我也請署長那新任的署長來針對這部分必須做出檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
9110.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
9127.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
部長你先聽我再講一個計畫補助僱主繼續僱用高齡者預計預計補助這是在114年度的救援基金裡面要動用一個辦理特定對象就會促進津貼及相關僱用講述津貼的6.85億是這麼寫嗎預計補助一樣是1000多人啦1498我們估計算1500嘛然後補助僱主僱用退休高齡者傳承這個專業技術及經驗38家 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
9135.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
9162.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
補助僱主辦理勞工退休後再就業準備的協助措施有30加編的2.74億嘛沒有錯嘛對不對好那如果要以這一項來加總坦白講其實他一年1500四年才6000也佔你這個48萬人的1.6%而已對所以就是我們其實相關的編列的經費的資源其實我們的執行率確實是有需要檢討的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
9163.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
9191.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
45歲到65歲的中高齡除了失業還有失衡外本來還在職場如果依照內政部的資料是應該每年約有幾十萬65歲屆齡的退休高齡人口尤其今年跟明年是退休的退休潮的高峰怎麼讓他們屆齡完之後還留在職場然後從你的預算面向去顯示基本上是很衝突的落差值是非常大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
9192.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
9207.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我們的部署繼續僱用高齡者的這個獎勵措施目的就是希望借齡的勞工朋友能夠職場續航然後延緩退休所以這支計畫主要就是希望能夠補助繼續僱用的高齡者 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
9210.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
9218.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
鼓勵雇主禁用那我們會持續今年度會持續加強來推動我現在不敢你聽我這跟他對話應該你應該知道我要點出什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
9222.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
9247.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
好 那第三個齁時間超過很多對不起齁一樣在救安基金裡面有編列一個辦理繼續僱用高齡者及重高齡者的相關補助業務但當時只編列了兩千多萬同時又辦理了五十五的這個這個壯士代這個壯士代的名稱你們要繼續用嗎就因為促進獎勵措施預計補助三千人然後框了編列了1.35億 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
9250.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
9267.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那個跟跟留言說明吼關於壯世代三個字因為這個名詞是去年在預算編列的時候但是我們其實有說未來接下來在勞動部的計劃裡面我們會把壯世代這三個字因為他這三個會這個這個名詞的使用比較爭議可是事情我們會繼續做 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
9269.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
9288.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
但是這三個字使用我們會來做修正那剛剛在講到確實我們其實在這幾在這幾支計劃裡面我們我們相關的預算的執行其實我都認為是有很大必須改進的空間很大必須改進的空間嘛對不對是就是這個執行上是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
9289.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
9308.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
執行障礙包括我們可能一些條件的設定包括對象的對象的設定包括條件的設定包括我們要怎麼樣子來協助這些需要幫助的中高齡的朋友可以走完然後最後能夠達到政策的目標然後這部分我們其實都是請我請發案署 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
9309.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
9328.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
也不只這個計畫啦 其實我們做整體的我剛才說我們會做一個整體的總體檢部長就很清楚問題的所在了嘛 對不對這一個有一點 算是非常破碎嘛三個連連組 軍組支援上基本上是非常的分散啦而且不集中 然後整個的補助好像看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
9329.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
9346.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
很零很零碎啦很零碎那如果要去做整個統計的這些資料其實是會會被挑戰的啦或者互相其實會有競合然後會互相影響效應其實這些事情我們都發現所以這個檢討不是檢討單一支計畫是要做整體的檢討甚至要不要做計畫的整併 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
9349.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
9368.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那最正確的 我就是希望部長回答這句話所以這樣 我就要求勞動部一周內針對這個進營的利益人才的培訓課程同時可以嚴厲勞工的進修及失業勞工的補助計畫是其一那其二是針對這個促進高齡者續留或從晚滋長的計畫勞動部應該提出更具體的這個流竄的數據及方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
9369.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
9386.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
也希望一周內可以提出監討方案齁最後是協助45歲到65歲的資源應該是要其中共用啦希望65歲以上的退休勞工成長資源也必須要再擴大增加但是這個必須就是要重新盤點嘛齁 重新瞭解到 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
9386.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
9411.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
各個計畫執行的狀態才有辦法從部長剛剛講的把問題點出來之後再去做修正再去做調整劉仁針對你這三點第一點沒有問題我們會來規劃但是第二點確實需要多一點時間因為剛剛說他不是單一支計畫的檢討他可能是一整個計畫相關的計畫都需要一併檢討所以真的需要多一點時間時間由部長講三個月好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
9413.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
9432.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
買吧三個月因為我是請他們做總體檢是因為新的署長上來後我是請他針對這些就業計畫做總體檢所以確實需要整體的時間會比較多也希望比較周全好三個月就三個月應部長所講那最後一點應該也沒有多大問題吧是我們就是針對這個方向來做檢討好謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
9442.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
9444.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
好 接下來請林淑芬委員發言好 現在主席 是不是請我們洪部長 請洪部長林委員好部長 AI政夯 這個黃仁勳來台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
9470.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
9485.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
AI相關的股票也很夯但是跟就業有關的AI的議題也很夯現在很多大學生大家都覺得大學生就是產業後備軍的養成所雖然我不贊成是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
9486.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
9503.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
但是現在說大學的確就變成是產業後備軍的培訓所那大學生很多都用ChatGPD或是Notion或是Gemini這種網站作為學習的輔助的工具那我現在要討論的議題就是我報導過的就是AI廣泛應用在人資管理系統還有數位轉型連企業的組織都將AI應用在營運管理和決策當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
9514.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
9542.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那這種狀況裡面整個典範可能會創造一出這個企業經營上的典範的轉移那根據2024年人資FBI的報告2023年你知道嗎企業在招募人才的過程當中從通知面試到成為新進員工到職整體平均的人才招募天數花了幾天你要不要猜猜看 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
9544.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
9567.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
你猜猜看嘛兩天2023年你招募一個人選並一個人面試他到他來上班就職是花了54.4天平均招募一個一般的員工花48.2天主管人員主管職的人員花更長的時間要66.4天 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
9570.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
9587.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那這幾年都要講缺工缺工那所以大家投地的履歷數量變多那人資在徵才方面的工作量也變多那況且現在幾乎都是線上徵才作業作為企業攬才的主要管道不只是要求這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
9589.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
9612.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
求職的人會用AI寫履歷現在連人資都使用AI對履歷做篩選篩選履歷所以這個是幾乎我說人資管理上的典範的轉移這個是一個很需要思考的問題那你知道在人資管理上有什麼樣比較主流的這個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
9614.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
9619.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
來應徵追蹤AI篩選這些人才嗎你有聽過任何任何任何的系統或應用程式嗎有但是我說這個問題確實沒有你講一個來聽聽看你說有你都說有了我就聽你講講看因為事實上我不太知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
9642.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
9670.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
就是我們都知道我們我們知道其實因為這段時間跟一些人質但他們讓我們知道說他們現在確實現在都用AI做一些面試跟履歷表篩選的工具對對啦我說那你們用什麼系統我沒有特別問他們個別是用什麼系統所以你沒聽過我也沒聽過我是為了質詢然後才去助理才去找的你知道現在一個ATS是人力資源的應用程式那其實是協助企業用數位的方式來管理招募還有雇用工作的軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
9671.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9678.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那許多企業為了精簡人事成本提升招募的效率剛剛講了平均54.4天多沒有效率啊不可思議我們聽到都覺得不可思議部長用AI以後會大幅縮短到OK那現在導入ATS然後AI技術進行履歷的掃描和分析可以在初步的階段就出塞符合調節的應徵者 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9701.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9724.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
節省很多時間 節省很多人資而且確保篩選標準的一致性而只有分數超過門檻的履歷才會送到人資的手上進行第二階段或是下一階段這個就是ATS 但是ATS主要是要做英文履歷為主但是我是要舉這個 我不是要講ATS 我是要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9725.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9753.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
AI的技術正在改變招募和人才管理的生態所以我一直在講整個典範要轉移可是這麼大的一個問題大家思考的很廣企業人資作業導入異化的比例在逐年的成長AI的技術取代了過去的人事行政管理可能薪酬管理數位化的線上學習平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9753.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9781.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那人資的管理系統會導入自動化的處理員工的數據像是員工的入職離職休假申請等程序那同時呢人事行政管理的數位化也提供了管理階層即時的數據分析然後會讓管理階層好的運用管理階層可以更了解員工的需求和行為那AI會收集大量的員工的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9783.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9798.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
會進行分析預測然後讓企業去發現他們管理面的潛在的問題所以他可以很精準的可能可以相對於沒有AI的時代精準的去訂出他的培訓計畫他的薪酬政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9799.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9813.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
符合員工的期待然後提升員工的滿意度和留任率當然更可能會讓老闆很滿意所以我們才問你說AI技術能夠取代人之最業的項目還有哪些部長你覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9818.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9831.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
沒思考過應該是說我們在跟因為我在我們部裡面以後其實我們也跟很多的人在做進一步的座談那他們都跟我們講到說他們現在其實確實大幅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9833.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9847.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
在更多的使用AI的工具那蠻多在跟我們在討論的時候是當然談到訓練的問題包括一些招募的問題那也談到工具沒關係我問你是說接下來人資管理上面要面臨什麼挑戰那我問你最簡單的現在有多少比例的這個企業他們已經導入了AI的人資管理模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9858.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9875.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
運用AI然後你有沒有做過調查和統計你有沒有了解這些數據大企業有多少人已經在使用AI在做人資的管理我們沒有直接去做這個我們確實還沒有這部分去做統計可是我們有觀察到這個現象也在發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9876.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9881.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
但是我有一份來自於勞動部 台灣就業通的統計資料2024 AI世代求財條件大調查讓就業通的會員 你們自己的網站上的會員自行填寫回收樣本數578份 整理後有效的樣本數是533份 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9898.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9903.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
有3%的企業已經使用AI作為面試的輔具工具來徵才而有34.3%的企業考慮未來要使用如果把統計範圍擴大到全台如果把這個樣本 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9913.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9938.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
如果它可以算是精準的話擴及到全台的所有的企業你會發現說可能使用普及率相當相當的高現在進行是已經使用AI面試工具在徵選人才那AI的這麼的普遍化的使用還有市場的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9940.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9945.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
會很多面 那就就業市場 我要問你部長問題會是什麼委員剛剛說的那個數據其實應該是在桃園就業通上面的統計可是我自己認為實際上面的數據可能甚至比在就業通上面的數據來得更高對啦 但我要問你是這麼廣泛這麼高比例的使用那對就業市場的挑戰是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9964.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9980.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
他可能會產生的問題是什麼我們現在有幾個議題正在討論第一個這會有產生員工監控的問題包括隱私權的問題那也有包括其實這裡面因為用AI的使用裡面他可能會不斷的複製跟加深某些主流的 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9980.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9998.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
偏見或刻板意見的這個問題會在AI裡面發生我們這都看到你如果大量的用這樣子的AI的工具來招募的話看起來很方便或者是時間會縮短甚至減少很多你人資資源的投入可是它反而會複製了沒錯這件事情這是大家比較擔心的沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9999.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
10022.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
AI的人質管理系統它的這個提升的效率但它的存在的這一些弊端它的模式都是由既有的資料庫的檔案訓練的AI的資料庫的數據作為評斷的標準它雖然很有效可是不要忘了這麼多的數據如果數據本身就存在著對於性別 對於年齡對於這個相當的偏見和這個喜好 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
10026.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
10041.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那這個東西你為他的數據本身就存在這些偏見和喜好那他養出來的他篩選的時候他就會有不公平的狀況會產生所以這些偏見喜好 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
10042.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
10063.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
然後會排除掉你如果不在偏好的範圍內的履歷可能就會被直接淘汰掉了所以AI是訓練的可是你的Data本身存在歧視偏見然後存在特殊喜好如果你是他歧視的如果你是他偏見的如果你不是他特殊喜好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
10063.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
10088.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
在這種狀況裡面 你在關鍵字匹配篩選的時候好的履歷 然後你的關鍵字不符合的時候可能就被排除在外了在這種狀況裡面呢 你知道他們的偏見最大最主要的 主流的觀點的喜好和偏見歧視會產生在哪幾個變相嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
10090.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
10117.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
就我知道是性別跟年齡沒錯性別跟年齡所以你們說要面對這個問題你們剛才回答說要訂出三個指引因應AI時代的來臨使用AI作為面試工具那對人資管理影響這麼大會有對性別的對年齡的歧視這麼嚴重那請問你們你們訂了三個指引訂了什麼指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
10118.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
10131.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
來 你來回答沒關係各位報告 其中一個指引是就業歧視的部分第二指引是隱私權保護的部分什麼保護隱私權隱私權對 第三個是在勞資關係裡面在使用AI上的一個指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
10132.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
10157.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
好 那跟我想 跟我想大家想的都最基本的 都是一樣的就是說啊人資部門經常處理敏感的員工的資訊收賺證 滯號 薪資 明細 銀行 賬戶如果缺乏嚴格的資料保護規範那種防範的機制可能會被濫用 而且會外流外洩如果你要使用AI 那你相對的資訊安全的程度你要克責一個企業什麼責任那 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
10160.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
10188.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這個在美國歐盟的法令都要求如果使用自動聘僱決策工具你要做資訊揭露你要招募企業招募勞動管理績效評估離職預測管理解僱上都衍生風險你用了這麼多的這些數據你要讓每一個被收集資訊的人當然要有知情權要有同意權然後要有告知 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
10190.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
10217.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
取得每個人同意所以綜合這些看法我們要釐清AI的真實使用的情形對勞動者產生的影響可是還有一個不要忘了AI的監控企業在資料的收集和監測已經可能導致過度干預到員工的個人隱私造成員工心理上的不良反應但現在新型態的監測遠端控制技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
10218.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
10231.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
透過接蹤員工在電腦螢幕前和鍵盤活動計算員工的投入的時間 衡量他的生產力像是StopCop還有這個TerraMindHopStopCoverControlTimeDoctor |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
10239.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
10256.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
企業廣泛的在使用這種監控員工在螢幕使用的這種軟體系統他追蹤員工的電腦螢幕會分析被監控的員工然後以利於主管評估員工的工作效率那這些要怎麼管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
10258.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
10287.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
你們想過了嗎?要怎麼?因為這部分其實就是剛剛我有說到說這裡面衍生這個數據員工監控的問題你們剛剛的三個指引沒有涉及到這一部分那我說這個部分其實就是關於這個相關的監控跟數據控制所帶來的隱私的部分所以他這個部分的切入點會比較是你們的三個指引都沒有關係到我剛剛講的這個問題他比較是跟隱私的這個部分高度相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
10288.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
10295.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
對啊 所以你們三個指引是不夠的還有這方面要怎麼處理我想我們可以來針對我們三個指引的範疇再來 第二AI的運用在勞資關係上被討論最多的重點是道德 倫理的問題尤其是將AI導入工作職場通常是組織的高層片面做決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
10309.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
10328.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
沒有在導入前跟員工討論的所以最主要的還是在勞資溝通和協商上如何成為AI導入的和必須應用的這個路徑我們在講說勞資協商可是這個AI工具就是偏偏沒有勞資協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
10330.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
10351.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
它破壞了企業裡面最核心的我們普遍認為企業的經營管理是需要更多的更大量的勞資共管共同協議的可是你在AI的組織內的AI的運用相對的是弱化勞資的溝通和共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
10352.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
10382.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那這部分對於我們要往前進的勞資關係的協調溝通共識協商它是破壞的而且是走回頭路的那要怎麼因應我想確實AI的使用在勞資關係裡面尤其是在導入前後有沒有經過勞資協商的同意這是接下來在勞資關係裡面的一個很大的挑戰所以這也是為什麼我們其實有一個指引是在處理這件事情的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
10382.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
10399.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
你們的指引有處理到這個程序嗎就是處理這件事情好那我現在講說你們還有一個委託研究報告就是提到對於AI技術在勞動市場的實際應用進行研究和數據的蒐集在法制面要建立指引那其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
10402.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
10408.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
就職場AI的使用目前是沒有規範那你們現在未來要定職域嗎但是呢在個人數據方面我們剛剛講要有知情權要得到每一個人的同意權然後要告知我這個都是使用AI在管理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
10419.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
10423.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那第三個現有的隱私保護措施是不足的剛剛有討論過那要不要有外部監督機制剛剛講的是說你有指引但是僅限於企業內部的監督我們需不需要引進外部的監督我們需不需要訂出法律上的處分法則沒有法則等於是指引不好的指引只有道德上的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
10447.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
10470.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
沒有處罰的罰則 指引等於形同虛設那法律配套是什麼我想我們相關的在法規面的部分我們都願意一併來盤點跟檢討啦我跟你講部長我知道啦其實我知道 你也不知道啦我也不是很知道啦那我今天的質詢是要告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
10471.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
10488.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
這件事情很嚴重衝擊到整個企業業界內部的這個管理人資管理衝擊到勞資關係衝擊到相當相當大的勞動市場對勞動者的偏見歧視 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
10490.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
10519.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那其實對中高齡勞工很不利在性別上的歧視也一樣不利所以這個事情是我現在告訴你你現在開始要花更多時間投入更多資源要在法制面在執行面要真的要開始好好的思考了好 謝謝謝謝林委員也謝謝部長這個確實要快速應用接下來請王振旭委員來做選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
10530.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
10532.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
好 謝謝主席我們再請洪部長來 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
10538.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
10566.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
歐偉好 部長好剛剛聽了這個林書文委員很期待在各方面都能夠更精進尤其未來在AI的時代如何能夠讓我們的勞動朋友在他職場的這些服務的過程裡面的確是可以跟資方有更好的關係我相信這個書文委員對您的期望非常非常的高我相信您有這個能力可以把這個事情做得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
10567.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
10582.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那我今天就利用這個機會來跟您討論兩個問題一個就是有關於這個推動有心男性育嬰假的部分那一個就是針對這個勞工健檢跟成人健檢如何把這個資料的整合做得更為具有前瞻性 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
10583.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10606.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那第一部分就是有關於這個有心彈性育嬰假其實大家都非常關心我們未來的兒童應該像國家一樣是一個非常重要的目標透過這樣的目標跟政策的執行才會讓我們的這些年輕可以替台灣有更多的生育的機會讓少子化的危機可以快速的解除 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10607.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10631.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那我們之前也知道這個勞動部推出的這個彈性育嬰假的這部分的示範結果也出來了那個時候大家也討論如何能夠更精進那那個時候你也提到說近期將會提這個方案跟配套的措施不過依照這個脫育籍就業政策催生聯盟他們在做調查以後以這個台北市為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10632.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10652.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
在2024年托嬰中心因為長病毒停課平均家長平均要請假19天最高甚至要到28天那這個過程裡面呢他們這個在就業當中的這些家長們特休假根本就不夠請所以對於這些年輕父母來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10653.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10683.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
如果他是雙就業或者是有這個需求的話真的會非常的辛苦因為他不得不請假那個請假要扣薪勞動目前你們也是在積極的規劃裡面所以想要請教部長就是目前目前有沒有什麼特別的進度跟未來在提案方面的一些時程那特別的是有沒有針對兩歲以下的這些小孩的受雇父母的請假需求做過相關研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10686.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10699.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
報告委員那有關這個目前的我們相關的案子其實都已經在做盤點規劃那針對兩歲以下的小孩的這個部分來說我們大概做過一些了解那包括他有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10701.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10719.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那個小孩要做預防注射然後有生病那還有一些包括保母臨時請假等等的這些情況他有一些需求那目前的需求大概用家庭照顧假或者是說大概搭配試假特別休假或者長一點的需求可能搭配育嬰留職停薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10719.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10740.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
現在有一些短天期目前為止是30天這樣的一個相關的規定來做處理所以有基本的資料可以做參考的嗎因為我們想要提出來就是說如果針對於這個兩歲以下的這些硬價有特別需求的時候那如何能夠有更嚴謹的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10742.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10767.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
現況的調查讓我們知道說針對這個兩歲以下的這個小孩的受護父母他們針對於在這個過程裡面不同的性別是屬於爸爸媽媽的申請的需求呢請假時間的日數請假的原因還有很重要就是他用了哪一些的價別來透過這個需求來符合他這個請假的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10767.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10789.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那這個對未來的政策規劃是會有很大的幫助所以如果能夠在這個我們很期待就是在下個會期之前能不能有相關的這個比較屬於符合這些要求的這個調查讓我們能夠做參考的話我相信對未來部理在做政策制定的時候會有更大的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10789.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10811.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那個跟完說明我們當然因為在正式研擬的過程我們其實也做了不少訪談可是確實比較是數量的統計上面的調查我們覺得我們可以再強化所以這部分的調查我會來請我們部裡面相關的這個研究單位我們來針對這個相關的調查我覺得我們把它再做一個更更完整的調查不是不只是執行的訪談這部分我們會來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10812.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10838.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那第二個確實現在大家使用的價別裡面目前有些會使用特休可是因為特休真的是比較有限所以很多會用市價可是市價是沒有薪資的所以這也是為什麼我們也在是希望規劃是用用育嬰留庭的方式來去做因應因為育嬰留庭是相對是比較有是有薪水的是有薪水的來自薪資的補貼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10842.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10868.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
讓大家在請休的時候其實有比較多的經濟上面的支持的確我們現在還是在以日來請休這個方向來去做規劃跟研擬當然我們現在要在克服的事情是我們要怎麼降低對於很多企業他在排班上面的挑戰這件事情當然我們現在還在做各幾個幾個方案的研商所以這是重要的配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10869.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10896.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
因為我們希望能夠讓這個勞工尤其是這個育嬰的家庭能夠有比較大的彈性的空間去兼顧但同時也是希望其實可能對於一些職場因為尤其台灣其實有蠻多的企業是中小企業他在人力上面他的這個職代其實的制度不一定都這麼完整所以這個這些相對應的配套我們是在做總體的目前在規劃之中也在跟行政院討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10897.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10918.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
所以部長可以允諾我們在下會期之前就會有初步的這些了解的成果嗎我希望不要到下會期我希望能夠更快好就麻煩部長能夠越快越好那如果至少是兩個月左右的時間能夠看到初步成果好這是有關您第一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10918.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10943.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
因為第二個部分就是其實在今天的這個結論報告裡面有一項跟我一直長期關心的就是這些健診資料不管是勞工體檢或者是成人的這些健檢如何能夠有效的去做適當的併用我們看到就是說如果之前有希望針對於僱主可以併用結合勞工健檢跟成人體檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10944.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10959.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
的這些結合的話符合四項條件就能夠幫助至少可以讓這個健檢的過程可以更順利一方面可以幫助雇主來抵免部分的檢查費用同時也可以避免這個醫療資源重複浪費跟節省勞工的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10964.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10985.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
這是已經行事多年的一個一個需要能夠併用的部分那目前有沒有相關的資料知道說這個企業有多少是合併的在這邊做一併的處理那參與勞工到底有多少人是這樣做那政策執行率是多少那部長你知道這個政策已經執行多久了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10987.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
11009.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
跟委員報告那委員一直關心說看看我們的勞工健檢資料可不可以跟那個成人健檢資料這邊做借接那當然在法制上現在是有一個個資法限制那不然就像委員今天在簡報裡面提的目前我們是採這個鼓勵鼓勵勞工接受這個勞工健康檢查的時候鼓勵勞工就是可以將他的個資 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
11011.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
11018.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這個健康檢查資料上傳到衛福部這個成人健診資料那目前還是在持續推動中就是我們在透過很多管道在做宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
11020.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
11045.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
其實這個政策已經執行了將近20年了就是勞動部推動勞工健檢如果採納變成健檢資料是可以一致化的部分其實已經一段時間只是說我們很期待說如何能夠讓這個政策的執行可以更為周全而且是在符合相關的條件之下來做這方面的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
11046.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
11072.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
所以這是為什麼我們一直期待希望能夠把這兩份的資料有機會做整併的地方那衛福部其實也希望能夠請各部會主動的上傳各種不同的這些健診資料不管是教育部的或其他部會所以他們是希望透過不同的這個誘因還有這個覆蓋率的了解跟法律適用的問題來提供給各部會來做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
11072.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
11100.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那有關於我們之前也請教過貴部有如何能夠協助這樣這個我們未來在達到健康台灣裡面很多慢性病的資料的整合做有效的運用那個時候部裡面給我們的回覆是說會提供這個去識別化的資料讓這一群將來80%的這個資料是可以匯入到未來提供我們慢性病的這些處理的一個模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
11101.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
11130.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那可是去識別化資料當作大數據的研究是很好可是你針對個別勞工有問題的時候事實上是無法銜接的這部分我們也持續來考量那最後是希望說如果貴部跟衛福部這邊針對勞工的這些健檢資料還有成員健檢資料能夠有效的診病的話我相信我們可以達到剛剛的目標那我們去了解其實勞動部所管轄的這個勞工健檢跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
11131.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
11154.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
衛福部所處理的成人健檢它很多都是雷同或者是會重疊的所以我們很希望大家共同的努力把這些針對勞工的這種他的福利的部分我們可以有更好的一些方式來做更好的一個精進的措施那部長這邊不知道有沒有其他的想法可以給我們做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
11155.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
11174.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我想因為在專案法裡面的法規我們裡面要求的檢查的項目其實主要是這個職業安全的預防所以要更衛服務這邊的資料在這邊的串接我想我們是願意更衛服務來做直接的研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
11175.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
11204.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
但是這裡面可能確實也還是會涉及到一些法規上面的問題因為這些因為這些授權資料的應用其實包括他個資的使用那能不能夠用在法規上面目的外的使用這裡面可能也會有一些法規上面的議題要來做研究因為這涉及到個資我們也很難說說雖然我們手上有個資所以我想跟誰是哪一個單位跟哪一筆資料去串就怎麼串其實可能也不是這樣所以這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
11205.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
11226.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
可能會有一些技術上面的問題必須要去克服那這部分我們願意來跟衛福部討論非常謝謝部長這樣的回覆因為我們知道健康福利資料的運用是未來針對國人的健康是有更大的幫助的那很期待能夠透過這個不同跨部會的這些研議來解決更多的問題好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
11230.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
11233.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
好,謝謝黃委員、謝謝部長。接下來請郭國文委來做選擇。謝謝主席。有請紅部長跟基中醫藥局的蘇局長。來,有請兩位。 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
11256.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
11263.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
郭文豪部長好我想就教一下部長勞工的請假規則大概多久沒有改你有沒有瞭解過 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
11267.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
11285.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我們其實最近在檢討112年的時候有修正過112年可能是維護的修正大部分應該是雷同部長我想這邊慎重的提醒一下因為整個社會形態的變化少子化的結果有些價別要請是不得不請 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
11287.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
11311.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
但是職業別的差異又差別非常的大本來在去年的時候工人員要做調整事實上也沒有調整那價別上幾乎落差非常的大我就屢屢接到一些陳情跟反應別說實務上有時候請假未必請得到假或者是不一定能夠有薪水的情況底下這價別的落差非常之大我想讓部長看一個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
11311.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
11338.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
要如何做一個讓一個勞工朋友能夠善盡孝道在少子化的情況底下有一些儀式雖然減少但是卻要花相對多的時間的情況底下是不是讓部長有一些調整的可能性就勞工朋友跟軍工教育的這個差異不論是婚教的話跟商教的部分除了有一個維護的增加這個六天的部分然後少數的項目就是祭父母祖父母的部分跟配偶父母的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
11339.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
11351.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那去年十月的時候我質詢的時候居然勞動部是用這個六天的差別那可以不少於公務人員的方式也是一個調整的方式或者是做一個局部的調整也是一個思考的方向不知道部長怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
11354.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
11373.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我想我針對這個議題我覺得我們是可以來做有沒有一些調整思考的研議不過確實跟公務員因為這個是相對應的薪資的部分當然是由僱主來給付那公務員的部分其實是政府給付基本上不是經常性的價別是一次性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
11374.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
11402.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
然後就這個部分其實對勞工朋友來說是相當重要的確實因為他也不是經常性會請的東西可是我覺得這些相關的演繹當然我覺得我們可以綜合來考慮各種因素我們是可以來討論這件事情請部長稍微思考一下不要用之前回覆我那種方式做一個單項的比較來回覆本席我覺得這不夠有誠意好不好那請部長好好慎重思考一下那另外一個部分呢我個人部分也收到一個陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
11404.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
11423.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那因為在勞動部對補助地方政府有關於這個身障者的一個救福人員的薪資的同時在設立這個地方政府的救福站的那個業務內容其實跟勞動部直屬的救福中心的業務內容其實相差無幾但是呢就地方政府的部分的薪水 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
11424.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
11451.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
薪資跟獎金有所調整但是勞動部直屬的這個部分卻未盡有所調整的這個空間這個部分是不是形成一種差別待遇這個部長這個問題是不是要處理一下根本說明因為之前委員就有來關心這個所以我們其實也做了檢討所以我們其實在今年的5月1號開始其實我們就有來調整包括資源重建服務的專業人員的薪資的補助這部分已經開始調整了 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
11452.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
11480.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
從這個月就要開始調整5月1號那速度算很快那但是我們現在因為這部分可是那個預算有既有的預算嗎其實這是來自當然是來自他的資金來自基金但是因為可能我們在薪資調整部分也不太能夠只調整某一群人他可能會跟其他的會之間聯動所以我們其他聯動的部分我們其實現在也在做相關的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
11481.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
11504.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我只是主要強調的是同樣的業務內容不應該有差別待遇啦因為這個薪資的調整其實是相當敏感那這禮拜六他們要跟我陳情就不用來了嘛好那接下來 委員還是可以你還是可以跟他們談一談那你就給我一點資料OK 那個部長還有一個問題我想這個問題可能是基金應用局書局長會比較清楚一點我想書局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
11507.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
11535.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
署長我不知道我們這個整個基金運用群組有關於這個投入台股的ETF的這個額度相對國外來說的比重到底高或低我們目前有投資台股的ETF那因為我們內部對於投資個別的ETF有一個就是說佔這個發行額度有一定的比例性當然有一個配比嘛就風險的評估一定會有一個配比 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
11535.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
11558.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
但是這配比的同時我想說有一點讓您知道一下就是說其實台灣的ETF其實基本上購買者越來越多做你一個基金的操盤手它不是一個好的選項但是就現實而言手續費的部分在台灣的ETF手續費用是高達0.4%到1%之間在美國的ETF大概只有0.1%以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
11559.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11573.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那個是倍數的差別相信來回之間有十倍之多最高跟最低的部分所以這個部分是不是應該去跟相關的業者透過因為畢竟勞動基金醫院其實是大戶嘛你應該用這個方式來做一個談判的籌碼把它壓低這對一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11576.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11602.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
非基金運用局做投資的勞工朋友來說也是一項利多有沒有可能朝向這部分來跟相關的業者來做一個討論跟委員報告過去我們也曾經就我們基金運用局有投資的ETF標的跟發行機構就投信提出說我們希望降低這個管理費的一個可能性麻煩再加強一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11604.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11627.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我想對基金運用局也好,或者對勞工朋友也好,都是一件好事,實在太貴了,十倍好,謝謝部長,謝謝局長接下來請葉元之委員,葉元之委員,葉元之委員不在請鍾嘉斌委員,鍾嘉斌委員,鍾嘉斌委員不在請廖偉祥委員來坐巡檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11636.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11638.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
謝謝主席 請洪部長請部長廖委員好部長好 部長辛苦喔這個我們節假日的條例修正後有委員說放假太多 有勞工擔心放假太多會被AI取代 請問部長認同嗎認同這個觀點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11660.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11676.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我想勞動部在修法過後我們的角色就是協助這個條例但是部長請問你認同這個講法的觀點嗎我想我們就是會協助這個條例後續的執行你沒有回答我的問題你認同剛我說的委員的觀點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11678.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11695.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
AI的討論剛剛前面委員討論很多我覺得關於AI當然我們會有一些他就會衝擊的部分但是國家的國定假日修法通過所以你不認同他的觀點我們就會協助這個法規後續的執行尤其是怎麼樣顧到有關的權益所以部長您的意思就是不認同他的觀點嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11697.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11715.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我覺得這個AI有AI的討論但是國家的通過部長你說不認同也沒關係因為黃仁勳其實也不認同黃仁勳說AI不會取代人類但是不會用AI的會被用AI的取代這樣子可以吧你懂嗎你懂他講的意思對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11716.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11739.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
所以我想在AI裡面黃仁勳應該是教父級別所以您說不認同其實跟黃仁勳的意思是沒有問題的所以您可以直接大方的說你其實不認同這個觀點好不好部長不用護航這個觀點好部長這個我想要告訴你就是其實我想要問一下現在因應這個關稅衝擊和匯率衝擊對於勞工的這些衝擊請問有哪一些方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11746.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11774.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我想我們其實現在有幾個方案都在進行針對減班休息的部分那我們的雇用安定措施其實也包括適用的產業那包括啟動的條件我們現在也單純重新做了一些設定部長那個我想要因為其實我們上次有到台中考察那我想要請教一下部長知不知道有哪些方案裡面有幫助到所謂的自營作業者跟無一定雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11775.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11790.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我們現在其實也在針對要來給自應作業者協助我們要提出新的方案所以原本沒有嘛對不對所以原本沒有嘛對不對我們現在這部分要提出真正的方案好 謝謝部長我跟你說我這裡就是要幫他們爭取因為上次到台中考察完之後這些人是被漏接的一群 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11791.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11815.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
部長這些人是被漏接的一群所以要請您好好的把他們加入這個方案當中各種補助方案甚至幫助勞工轉型他們都很需要因為現在有很多的方案只給這些所謂的企業或是有一定雇主的人所以這部分要跟部長講一下跟部長報告也要盯緊一下請部長可以趕緊重新擬定這個方案然後提給本席辦公室一個報告可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11816.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11830.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
各位說明現在針對這部分我們也做方案在做方案的研商第二個但是確實是他開始實施的時機點會要來看關稅影響的情境的推演所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11831.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11845.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我跟你說我們舊方案部分我們會準備可是每一支方案什麼時候適合啟動跟上路這會來看各種不同的情境會比較適合的時候那我跟你說一件事因為其實第一線那天我想署長也在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11846.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11874.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
所以其實目前那天次長李次長講的其實在現場講的都是非常的好像說非常樂觀就是說他覺得以他目前知道現在談判的狀況應該是樂觀的所以可能不會啟動到最後一個階段包含上次我想要爭取的這個即時安心上工或是擴大這個臨時津貼工作津貼的部分可是我要跟你們報告其實第一個我剛剛講的第一件事情就是所謂自營作業者跟這個無一定雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11875.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11885.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
當天有一個整復師復健師他來現場他就告訴大家說他就告訴現場的所有的長官行政部門說你知道為什麼我今天可以來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11887.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11907.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
然後大家不知道他說因為從4月開始啊他去他的店裡面這個做整復復健做按摩的少了七成的客人不然他以前才沒時間來他以前每天光接這些客人就就不夠時間了所以他今天有來是因為他從4月開始呢就是有七成的客人損失了 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11908.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11937.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
所以其實包含這個當天還有除了他之外其他產業的包含這個自營工作者有一些人是在家裡可能是幫那種中小企業中小工廠代工的其實他們都受到了衝擊啊所以我剛剛特別講說部長請不要我覺得你的感受你現在制定政策感受可能跟第一線的有落差而且這些人其實是事實上已經被衝擊的包含有一些是直接影響可是他可能是無一定雇主或是在家裡幫忙做一些加工的 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11938.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11948.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
這部分要請部長重視我這邊要特別請部長重視跟廖長說明第一個我們沒有用樂觀的態度或樂觀的心態來看待我們也沒有用樂觀的心態來看待這個相對關稅的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11953.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11970.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
可能我們也要把很嚴峻的狀況做出準備所以現在這些相關的計畫我想我們都必須部長那我想要請問一下因為這跟第一線的感受真的差蠻遠的第一線包含台中市政府勞工局的相關的處事處長也都說 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11971.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11988.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
他們開始去訪談之後呢感覺第一線啊包含這種無一定僱主啊自營作業者的影響是很大的我要講的事情是你講的這些我想請問那你們演繹出來之後你的時程你要怎麼安排你要怎麼去保障他們的工作權益因為聽起來你就說一直演繹可是到底時間是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11989.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
12009.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
跟廖遠說明我們並不是只是一直研議第一個其實這段時間我們也一直來跟這些可能會潛在受衝擊的產業的工會持續不斷的在座談包括中部彰化好沒關係那部長我問一下具體的我們都持續的在了解大家的意見好那請問幾時安心上工這類的方案啊你們現在說會準備那我想要請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
12011.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
12027.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
他整體準備到確切可以實施要多久的時間?我跟廖委員說明因為即時安心上工的這個這一支計畫他主要是提供這個就業的機會甚至是用工部門的資源來提供就業的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
12028.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
12056.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
這一支計畫推出的時間基本上會是在比方說失業的程度有開始已經發生那些對所以我要問說你現在準備要到多久可以營業那部長你回答我的問題拜託我只是告訴你說你剛剛講的這些都是一些解釋啦我只要問具體我問說要多久的時間嘛包含行政的流程程序要多久的時間現在這些因為如果你突然發生了很多人受衝擊了你要多久才可以上路我剛才所以我就跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
12057.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
12063.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我在跟廖仁說明在這個發生的過程裡面第一個他可能會先從減慢休息開始發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
12064.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
12088.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那減班休息開始發生以後如果有開始發生失業我們包括有失業協助他就業的計畫但是到我們要來創造就業機會這件事情本身這個計畫的推出會相對會比較後面但是如果你把這個推出的次序給對調的時候反而可能會製造我沒有要你對調你要多久時間可以轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
12090.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
12117.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
因為他你等到那個時間點的時候你後面的程序來不會 我們在六月前我們其實就把這些相關的準備包括剛剛說的然後第二個你剛剛說的那幾個方案我剛剛前面還是有講這個自營作業者自營工作者跟這個無一定雇主你們一定要趕快把這兩個身份別納進去我看我們署長頻頻點頭我請部長可以認同就好因為署長是主管這個業務的這件事情我們在上個禮拜其實就已經來要求我們應該要針對自營作業者設計協助的方案了 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
12119.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
12143.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
對 那你現在還沒有嘛 那請問多久的時間 可以給本席一個報告我們現在在進行中啊 因為他甚至還會涉及到法規的研究我們是希望六月可以出來好不好 對所以一個月好不好 一個月一個月給本席一個報告 然後也推動這個協助方案的本身我們是希望到六月下旬可以出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
12144.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
12163.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那但是什麼時候上路這個還要看關稅衝擊的情境的發生也包括談判的結局部長我跟你講不只啊因為其實包含你們所謂的這個充電再出發休息充電再出發等等其實這些方案裡面究竟有沒有把這個自營工作者放進去以及無一定僱主放進去其實這個其實應該不管什麼時間點都要放我舉個例子因為現在面對的衝擊是整個台灣的產業要轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
12171.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
12194.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
不管是關稅或是匯率產業要轉型政府應該要帶頭轉型可是產業要轉型怎麼樣勞工也要升級那這些人包含的當天現場反映的不只是整副師啊也可能有這種小廚師有一些有受影響的他們也都希望知道說那他如果現在休息時間他生意不好的時候他可以怎麼幫助自己去上課去轉型那勞動部怎麼幫助他 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
12195.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
12219.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
所以這部分是我想要強調的部長跟委員說明如果是自行作業者如果是因為確實產業持續需要轉型那勞工的這個資能也需要持續的提升或是資能提升所以就自行作業者來說其實現在當然有包括像我們產業投資人才的計劃這部分其實是可以的我們相關的訓練也有相關的補助這部分就是就可以參與了因為其實憑良心講當天大家在問 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
12219.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
12240.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我們的部是沒有辦法具體回應人家的喔你現在講這些好那不然你把具體的方案給我我馬上去回答他們好不好因為當天講的所有的回應其實那些自營工作者他是完全想說跟我有什麼關係那有什麼微型創業啦我們其實現在確實也在針對關稅如果會影響到自營作業者的話的協助方案我們現在正在做研擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
12241.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
12262.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
所以這樣回答我就好了我知道所以你後面這部分其實這部分其實也在做年齡一個月嘛好不好一個月可以請大家關照到這些我們相關的規劃我們在一個月的時間我們可以提出來所以部長我要講的事情是因為他現在面對的這個問題是整個台灣的產業轉型勞工也要轉型所以請把這些勞工不要漏接也把他們算進去這當然是 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
12262.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
12291.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
最重要的政策目標另外我想要請問一下因為這個勞動基金的部分你們運用局我想要請問一下這一段時間因為匯率我想問我們基金裡面有多少是持有美債然後因為匯損產生了多少我們每個月月底都會去評估我們持有美元外幣部位的所以比例多少這次匯損多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
12292.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
12319.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
不好意思報告委員我們大概都是月底才會去評價但是我要提醒月底現在五月出馬四月底啊四月底的時候多少因為我這裡看到的數據只有三月底而已我們四月底還沒有公佈但是我要跟委員報告的是說這個是一個評價的損益並不是實現的一個損益他會影響我們的我當然知道為實現損益嘛我就是想要知道為實現損益是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
12319.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
12334.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
然後我想問說面對這樣的事件你們有沒有好的這個衝擊減緩或是避險的措施然後目前到底就是到底狀況表現的怎麼樣這是我想我們所有勞工朋友都很關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
12336.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
12362.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我們也我們持續在注意這個議題但是我們透過我們在投資配置的部分去分散我們包括不同的標的目前我們事實上已經投資的國家有70幾個國家那我們透過各種分散這個都是這種投資公報會講的這個官方的話我就是想要知道具體的數字我想要知道你持有美債的比例有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
12363.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
12390.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
你現在面臨到匯損的未實現損益是多少我想這個東西應該這樣子讓我會有點擔心我怕你們沒有實時掌握沒有辦法做即時的避險所以因為你剛剛講的我想你不管投資什麼東西他都會寫類似的話是不是如果你現在沒有辦法馬上告訴我你就說你現在沒有辦法馬上告訴我然後匯後提供給本席辦公室一份報告相關的資料可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
12391.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
12392.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
好 謝謝接下來請陳穎瑋來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
12422.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
12429.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
謝主席麻煩請治安署署長治安署署長丁署長我也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
12433.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
12452.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
蘇章浩今天我們委員會就是審議預算的解凍案所以我想就針對解凍以後職安署預算使用先請教幾個問題目前這個救安基金實役的預算整體執行率大概是多少然後哪些執行率哪些計畫執行率是最差的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
12456.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
12478.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
應該是指我們那個救安基金裡面的使用到救保基金裡面的預算我們大概裡面有六支計畫那那個我手上沒有這個資料因為確實有部分的如果是指這個救保基金的裡面計畫有部分的這個救安計畫平均的話是90.1295.12是你說95.12什麼執行率執行率95.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
12489.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
12504.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
你確定是那個救保現在講的這個是95.12是整個使用到救安基金裡面的預算裡面所有計畫所以沒有執行最差的 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
12507.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
12522.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
那執行率95%你覺得很好如果委員提到說執行率比較不高的部分有一個是70點多這是有關於這個對啊我的題目很清楚我一開始就問你執行率最差的你怎麼就報喜不報憂是還是你沒有聽清楚我的問題我可以再講一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
12529.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
12557.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
就目前你們救安基金10億的這個預算裡面整體執行率整體執行率大概是多少然後然後大概是哪些計畫執行率是最差的是跟委員報告整體執行率是95.12那其中執行率比較低的是70.05的部分是在有關於高風險高違規廠長的一個工作環境改善的輔導對 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
12558.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
12583.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
好那你覺得原因是什麼跟委員報告這個部分主要是有部分是在涉及到經費的補助就是一些比較高風險的工廠或是屬於比較屬於過去說比較辛苦產業的這個3K產業的一個廠商的輔導所以會有一些經費的一個補助如果申請案不多的話可能就會涉及到經費的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
12585.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
12605.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那你上任之後覺得要如何改善這些情形因為你是從這個副署長升任這個署長的所以你要怎麼去確保說這些預算執行之後能夠未來就是可以改善然後並且有助於提升我們的職業安全的這些水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
12608.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
12625.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
確實這個既然有編這樣的經費那就是說這個經費要補助到位所以我們這個部分我們未來會了解說在事業單位申請上這個到底是我們現在程序上還是說我們真正它的需求我們沒有這個項目沒有配合上這個部分我們會來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
12626.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
12648.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
好 那在未來就是針對這個職災預防有沒有什麼創新的這個措施跟做法跟過去可以有不一樣的思考那能夠真正解決就是前任署長他沒有辦法解決的問題例如說像我不久前才質詢的這個重大職災高居不下的這個問題還有點點點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
12651.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
12674.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
是跟委員報告其實在整個減災裡面最重要還是在這個法規跟制度的部分那我們認為說在法規部分現在整個治安法他正在做這個研修那再來這個制度面我們有去檢討說是不是除了不好意思你可能要大聲一點點因為你聲音要壓過這邊我才聽得清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
12675.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
12690.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
是 除了這個加強勞檢以外我們認為在制度上也必須要去做一些如何讓這個事業單位他自己本身可以運作他的內部的一個安慰管理機制我覺得這個是我們未來要努力的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12691.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12718.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
好謝謝那在過去本期曾在4月9號提到這個治安署的主管即將有很多人就不想幹了那想要提早退休或調職而且也聽說署長有自己比較偏好的子弟兵那期待署長可以提拔升官那這些主管呢是不是還會離退那你要如何穩定軍心好好的跟這些主管合作讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12719.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12749.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
你帶領的職安署的業務能夠順利推動呢各位回報 剛剛委員提到說什麼什麼子弟兵或是說這個是在內部完全沒有聽到這樣的訊息那確實在我上任之前就有部分的主管他是因為藉領要退休這個部分我們希望是他能留下來跟我們一起合作這個部分我們會持續跟我們同仁這邊來溝通那到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12750.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12772.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這個部分有關於人事的部分我們都還是持續內部還在考量當中我想人事的穩定其實是讓整個業務推動穩定很順利很重要的一個因素那你沒聽到的但外面卻傳的沸沸揚揚那我沒關係我是提供大家提出來討論討論那責任署過去好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12773.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12802.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
比較偏向這個職業安全的領域那在未來你要如何兼顧這個職業衛生領域的工作確實在這個安全上過去我也有詮詢在這個我們整個減災部分還要再持續努力那當然在目前來講整個產業的發展在衛生跟健康的部分也是現在不管是國內外都是非常重視的一塊所以我們這個部分未來在整個計畫上跟執行上都要特別去強化的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12803.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12826.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我想刚刚以上的问题是让你这个新上任署长可以简单的这个证件发表一下我们也留下记录作为未来检视的一个参考那现在要问一些比较严重的问题这个食品里面它会有这个PFAS的残留那劳工在这个生产的过程当中有没有可能曝露 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12829.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12852.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
確實喔因為如果這個不管是剛剛委員提到的這個會使用在什麼樣的器材基本上生產都是勞工在生產所以這個部分我們在跟這個環境部這邊他的一個行動計畫裡面我們有扮演一定的角色我們在這個不管是這個整個一個健康衛生部分的一個個別個人的保護這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12853.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12880.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
好那個待會我會再問你喔因為我想問的是說那他們的這個這些勞工的暴露風險相較於國人誰的暴露風險比較高當然是本國勞工在在做這個這樣的業務裡面風險比較高對本國勞工我也是問我說在現場的一個作為勞工好那一直到現在有沒有勞工朋友因為這樣的暴露而導致職業病就我們的資料裡面目前是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12881.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12895.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
沒有不代表沒有發生是我們可能沒有做研究那在你們的這個全服務及多服務晚期物質的這個管理行動計畫裡面的分工 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12896.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12917.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我看到的只有两项就是因应国际趋势依主管业务权则强化劳工对PFAS的安全与健康预防及危害认知以及对劳工宣导安全及健康之保护对化学品危害之认知进行教育宣导请问这个部分你们做了些什么 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12923.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12945.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們是主要是在讓現場的作為勞工知道我知道你們已經做了什麼你們做了哪些還是還沒開始整個如果是在法規部分我們那個危害標示的部分目前已經讓事業單位這邊讓勞工第一線勞工知道說這個從事這個工作是有危害的部分我們在做這段的宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12946.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12974.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
所以就是只有宣導就是標示目前是只有標示而已那就是你剛剛也講到就是說勞工對於這個這個PFAS的這個健康風險其實應該是很高的吧所以我想你們後續可不可以再多做一點事情可以好謝謝那我想說土壤跟這個食品以外勞工的這個暴露也只會比國人還高那 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12974.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12990.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
因為他們更增加了職業的暴露那希望職安署呢不要忽視了這個問題的嚴重性應該有這個更多的精進做法包括作業環境監測相關的採樣分析方法還有容許濃度標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12990.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
13019.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
以及這個特別危害勞工的這個健檢這些都是你們治安署應該要有的這個責任跟職長說啊你認同嗎認同好那我剛剛提的這些你們大概多少時間內可以做出來這個部分因為也涉及到要跟這個研究場景研究我看我們會不會是跟我們研究所這邊再來討論一下那你可不可以先預估抓個時間因為我們不定時間大家都會拖啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
13022.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
13040.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那委員給我們三個月時間好不好兩個月行嗎兩個月好好 謝謝那這個多福碗計畫核物的PFAS危害預防因為PFAS的作業類型很多事實上應該有很多勞工可能是暴露在這種危害物質重點是你們應該就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
13042.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
13070.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
要先掌控可能的暴露族群那例如說因為這種物質存在在比如說像我們這個生物可堆肥的餐具啦還有一些這個不沾的這些土具那滅火器啦雨衣啦家具的這些製作的這些勞工還有油漆工啊我想還有特別是那個化妝品的製造業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
13071.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
13087.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這些都是很危險的族群那署長你有沒有辦法追蹤到這些族群的這些暴露的這些族群暴露的勞工然後你追蹤到了然後又能夠怎麼樣去協助做好足夠的健康管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
13089.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
13106.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
委員確實這一塊比較我們必須要再深入去研究確實這個還沒有辦法鎖定聚焦到說哪一些勞工確實是暴露在這個地方那是不是委員這邊讓我們一個時間去做研究因為其實大概我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
13107.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
13134.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
署長應該也大概了解就是說有哪些品項哪些業者是就是說哪些產品他們是比較有含這個PFAS的這些有這些危害的這個物質所以我們其實是可以事先來是不是應該可以協助這些雇主來做好這個危害暴露的這個監督管理因為看起來你們實在是做得不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
13136.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
13162.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
目前跟這個環境部的配合事項是比較少沒有錯對啊但是因為這就最獨的比我們這些塑膠圍籬還要可怕是好所以麻煩你們加速一下要很積極那最後就是說本席想要請你明確的回應就是身為署長未來在這個職場不法侵害還有勞動條件的檢查業務會顯著的增加那你們就有的這個組織框架能夠應付的來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
13167.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
13181.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
現在因為我們配合整個職安法在修法那未來修法後業務會不會增加我想我們會通盤在判決修法其實有的法都已經修訂完成了所以那你是不是支持這個職安署的這個組織編制應該有所調整嗎好就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
13189.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
13208.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
以目前這樣業務推動上我們目前的整個組織編制是運作還算可以但是問題是你們這個有的組別因為也應該要因應修法就早就該落日了結果還存在你也搞不清楚是哪個我們這邊會持續來研議來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
13211.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
13226.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
好 那我想你回去就是我剛剛講的是基本常識你自己回去好好想一想那後續該做哪些調整你兩週裡面大概提出書面報告給本辦跟委員會好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請楊委員亮來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
13247.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
13261.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
好謝謝主席主席請一下洪部長部長好部長好勞動力發展署假如有需要的話就自己直接上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
13264.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
13275.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
部長我先問一下就是勞動部有預告修正外國人從事就業服務法的相關工作資格跟審查標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
13276.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
13295.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
預計要開放6年以上的資深移工可以擔任護佐其實其他有6項工作啦齁那其實已經在4月10號就已經預告終止媒體報導啦在本月7號勞動部把公告刪除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
13296.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
13319.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
發展署的意見是說關於中階技術人力部分預告期間收到不同的意見所以將與交通部、衛福部、經濟部討論後並做好風險評估配套再做規劃那本席這邊有兩個問題第一個就是你們要預告之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
13320.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
13332.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
不是先應該在程序上不是先應該跟相關的部會做過溝通再行預告這個第一題第二題就是勞搭署這樣子的話會 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
13340.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
13356.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
也會讓人家對於日後資深移工擔任副佐這件事情產生疑慮這兩個問題請部長或者是發展署今天是署長來 署長回答也可以 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
13359.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
13375.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
是謝謝委員有關本案基本上我們在事前都會跟目的事業主管機關開會演商那他們會針對他們該產業缺工的情況做出評估那提供相關的資料之後我們會提送我們勞動力諮詢小組進行討論通過了之後我們才會進行法制作業這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
13380.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
13391.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
應該有的SOP也都按照這個程序在進行預告之前已經做過有跟各部會協調組長你是麥克風的聲音我大聲一點開始進行預告的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
13396.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
13410.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我想我們預告的目的也是收集各界的意見那在這個期間因為各界針對開放的這六個職類呢有一些相關的疑慮所以呢我們也招會又再請這相關目的事業主管機關再回來再開會討論了一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
13412.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
13435.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
包括這個針對他們所要求的語言技能條件等等希望他們能夠再去思考是不是有一些配套要再充分一點然後再上路那該相關目的事業機關其實他們也都已經知道各界的意見所以他們表示他們可以再收回去在這個跟相關單位在做一些溝通在做一些演繹所以目前呢我們的法制作業目前是暫緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
13436.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
13465.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
也就是說事前其實你們已經有做過相關的溝通是的納入外界意見以後你們再溝通持續溝通其實政策的擬定大概就是這樣子它是一個很繁瑣而且必須要不斷滾動加入新的意見然後擬定新的政策的一個過程我想也直接問署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
13466.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
13478.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
就是說在80歲我們現在已經通過80歲以上長者免80量表就可以聘請外籍看護那這樣子的需求量看護的需求量大增你們大概要怎麼因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
13487.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
13509.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
社福移工人力的部分是跟委員報告我想這個有幾個面向包括我們為了要確保重症不會受影響所以我們目前正在跟衛福部以及相關的這個醫學團體研究怎麼樣做出輕重症分流的這個原則那輕重症分流做出來之後呢我們可能配合的包括系統法規相關的表單 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
13512.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
13531.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
申請的流程以及人員的配置人員的教育訓練等等的都需要做相關的配套輕重症分流署長的意思就是說以後要引進家庭看護工是必須要先經過審核大家來評比誰比較需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
13534.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
13560.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
對不對 你剛才這樣子的回答資格應該是說我們為了要讓因為可能預期預期的案件量會很多你不用緊張 你慢慢講我們是覺得說預期案量可能會增加增加了以後重症者的需求應該比較迫切比起那些健康或亞健康的他們的權益可能更需要受到保障所以我們可能會做出一個分流的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
13562.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
13581.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
讓他所檢附的這個鷹背文件如果是屬於重症的那我們可能有一個加速的機制不是讓他可以簽署不是署長你現在講的就是在修法80歲以上免巴士量表的修法的時候本席就提過以後一定會有排擠的效用對那現在現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
13583.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
13597.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我們的主張沒有被立法院的多數採納所以現在就是免巴斯量表那你們現在透過行政手段變成你們審核這個比巴斯量表更有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
13599.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
13627.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那個我跟楊詠琳說明不是審核啦但是就是說我們跟這些職業的醫學會來做討論我們先把重症的資格的人先分出來就是說你的狀況是重症的先分出來那我們讓重症的家庭他如果要聘請的話他有一個更快速的申請的方式或者是降低他的時間成本的方式比較便利的申請但坦白說要做到不會有衝擊是不不不 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
13628.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
13651.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
不可能啦一定會有衝擊我們的做法只是希望能夠減少衝擊一些而且讓你轉介過去的外籍看護工也不見得願意來啊所以我說我們必須很誠實的說不可能對重症的家庭都沒有衝擊這是幾乎不可能的一定會有衝擊只是我們的做法是在降低一些這個衝擊應該是這樣說我並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
13657.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
13681.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
想要為難你們的意思啦不過我只是跟你們講說你們這樣子的做法其實還是會有一定的問題產生所以我們只是提出配套降低影響可是很難完全沒有影響這我們心裡都很清楚還是必須要從引進外籍工的從來源的部分來做思考好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
13682.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
13702.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
部長我實驗的關係說我最後問一個問題就是失聯的外籍移工積欠醫療院所的費用那譬如說他因為他假如是在職在職他本來就有勞健保都有嘛那他逃逸了失聯了可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
13704.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
13733.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我們現在全國的醫院函請你們光是有函請你們協助處理失聯乙工積欠的醫療費用就有1600萬那這個到底怎麼處理因為他雖然失聯了可是他就醫基於人道立場不可能不幫他醫治那他的醫療費用不能從健保給付因為他沒有健保 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
13734.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
13756.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那欠下來的錢怎麼處理應該是跟委員說明因為確實很多醫院有來詢問我們能不能夠從救安基金來出這個錢可是我們認為這個事情要非常非常的審慎因為如果用救安基金出的話那就會變成這個合法的他是自己要出 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13757.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13779.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
非法的反而是政府出那這反而會形成一個其實反向的道德風險的問題不是部長這樣子講就是說就業安定基金到底它成立的目的是什麼它也有一部分是從是從外籍公這邊這邊繳納的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13783.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13799.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
假如說部長剛剛的論述是說有繳健保費的用不到就業安定基金,沒有繳的反而要,對不對?不是,我的意思是,因為他們之前都有繳,現在都有繳過就業安定基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13804.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13828.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
但是我的意思是說我們不希望變成一個狀況是別人等於是合法的移工他是自己繳健保對不對他自己繳可是變成是非法的是政府來繳那這反而會有點變相這裡面的相對應的對待反而會讓一些人覺得是在鼓勵非法或者是產生逃逸 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13830.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13856.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
你們回去做思考啦我不覺得這樣子的論述一定對因為政府存在的功能呢譬如說有很多人是必須要繳很多稅可是他用不到社會福利的補貼那通常社會福利補貼多數是不用繳稅的人在使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13856.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13877.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
你懂我的意思嗎所以說有一些看法可能必須要更宏觀一點我今天並沒有這一題我今天並沒有要答案是部長你們帶我去做思考今天要我再補充一點所以我們其實現在有跟各個來源國的相關有請他們大家一起提出來怎麼樣協助這部分管理的方案目前這部分是有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13878.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13905.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
但確實剛才我們主要講到說因為一些議員確實希望用救安基金來說的話其實確實會產生一些相對應這些爭議是這段時間我們收集到很多人的意見你們會有這個疑慮可能還有很多面向要做考慮不過部長剛剛講的那個理由我也舉繳稅跟社福來做相對應的比照讓部長待會去做思考好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13911.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13928.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
好 謝謝本次會議詢答全部結束現在做一下決議第一 報告及詢答完畢第二 委員諮詢為其答覆或請補充介紹者請相關機關里長周列以順便答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定那我們現在接下來處理剛剛的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13934.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13946.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
好不然我們現在接下來來進行討論事項既有17案請一併宣讀宣讀完之後我們就會先來處理這個剛剛的報告事項的暫停保留的部分好請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13950.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13959.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算決議有關勞動部主管預算凍結報告案17案1.勞動部勞動基金運用局新增決議97案業務費預算凍結30%專案報告2.勞動部新增決議1.業務費預算凍結30%專案報告3.勞動部新增決議29第6目 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13972.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13978.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
勞動條件及就業平等業務預算凍結20%專案報告4勞動部勞工保險局新增決議57業務費預算凍結30%專案報告5勞動部勞動力發展署及所屬新增決議71業務費預算凍結30%專案報告6勞動部勞動力發展署及所屬新增決議74 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13992.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
14019.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
勞動力發展業務預算凍結百分之二十專案報告七勞動部職業安全衛生署新增決議八四業務費預算凍結百分之三十專案報告八勞動部勞動及職業安全衛生研究所新增決議百業務費預算凍結百分之三十專案報告九勞動部決議八第三目向下辦理勞動政策集中措施及勞動部臉書等相關媒體宣導資料製作拖撥及刊登等所需業務費預算凍結六萬元書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
14023.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
14034.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
10 勞動部決議9 第三幕 向下辦理勞動政策與重要措施及勞動部臉書等相關媒體宣導資料製作拖撥及刊登等所需業務費預算凍結5%書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
14039.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
14058.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
十一勞動部含勞工保險局決議二第一幕向下水電費預算凍結百分之十報告十二勞動部勞動力發展署及所屬決議七第二幕勞動力發展業務預算凍結十萬元專報告十三勞動部勞動力發展署及所屬決議九第二幕向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
14059.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
14068.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
補助辦理就業保險業務所需行政事務費預算凍結10萬元專案報告14勞動部勞動力發展署及所屬決議16第3目向下水電費預算凍結10%報告15勞動部勞動力發展署及所屬決議17第4目向下水電費預算凍結10%報告16勞動部職業安全衛生署決議7第3目向下媒體政策及業務宣導費預算凍結30萬書面報告17勞動部勞動 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
14086.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
14106.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
及職業安全衛生研究所決議二地木向下水電費預算凍結10%報告報告完畢好謝謝那現在處理方才保留的這個報告事項那主案來做處理那第一案請委員表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
14111.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
14138.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
是報告一嘛對不對對對對是有關於這個ACGA我想請問一下這個ACGA跟AIGCC的會費各是多少總數多少是這個報一嗎我沒有我桌上沒有那一本我們現在是處理早上的報告事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
14141.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
14152.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
對對對報告事項有五十九案因為剛剛陳昭志委員有針對這個報告事項五十九案裡面有提出三十案就是這個嘛對不對報告事項對啊對 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
14161.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
14172.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
沒錯啊因為你們報告事項一就是說這個基金業務之嚴考及管控嘛凍結第二幕基金運用業務向下的基金業務之嚴考及管控一萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
14174.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
14192.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
是这样嘛对不对没有错所以我刚刚在问说这个有关于因为你们的解释里面有关于要去参加这个ACGA跟这个AIGCC也就是亚洲公司治理协会跟亚洲投资人气候变迁联盟这两个会费各是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
14193.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
14213.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
是 報告委員亞洲公司治理協會的那個美金是17250然後AIGC是那個15200元所以一個是美金然後所以一個大概是60萬一個是60萬左右一個是537000這樣好 那基金這個部分這科目總共編了1200萬2000元的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
14222.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
14227.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
然後未還委員會是凍結了一萬元所以佔比其實是萬分之8.33沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
14232.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
14246.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
所以你們裡面有提到依照你們的解凍說明第4頁有關於預算解凍之影響提到本案預算是推動永續投資業務所需如未解凍將影響相關業務推動我想要請問一下這個萬分之8.33大概是1200分之1怎麼影響你們的業務推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
14258.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
14282.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
報告委員我們非常尊重委員的決議所以我們還是會在這個過程我們會積極去推動但是因為預算有被凍結所以我們會比較謹慎希望可以解凍以後才能夠正式加入會議妳說解凍以後才可以正式加入嗎妳確定嗎所以妳要解凍才可以加入那我如果解凍了妳加入不了怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
14283.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
14288.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
呃 不會啦 我們現在簽名用那個好 那我就問妳嘛 妳說這個案子這個案子我剛剛已經說了 凍結是一萬塊好 那我就進一步問囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
14292.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
14299.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
預算書上面明明寫到是加入國際永續倡議組織會員會籍交流活動是118萬1千元所以你們在這一筆預算的時候因為剛剛算會費是大概60萬9千台幣還有53萬7千總共是114萬6千那你在這裡是寬列了118萬1千元你已經寬列了3.5萬那按照你們的解凍說明說凍結1萬元會影響業務推動的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
14320.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
14334.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
那我想要請問那明年你們在編列的時候是不是不要寬裂你就完全的精準編列因為當初我們在審的時候也是已經保有彈性了所以我覺得你剛剛要跟我說這一萬元沒有解凍會影響到你們入會我覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
14335.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
14346.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
我補充更正一下我們這個項目不是編一千多萬我們其實是核實編列我們根據他的會員的聯費兩個會員的聯費加上一個交流活動的雜費但是這下面是可以讓你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
14352.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
14371.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我們是就我們這個項目只有118萬而已不是1000多萬我們這個項目是但是你這整個裡面好118萬剛剛也說了那你已經寬裂了嘛對不對我們是根據會費核實的編那當初在這個下面你們是不是可以調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
14375.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
14400.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
調整必須跟其他科目我們這個項目其實是核實當時根據會員年費多少是確實的數目去乘以匯率然後再加上一個雜項就是其他的往來的文件等等是三萬五千並沒有多編所以其實任何三萬五千對你這裡寬列三萬五千那不是寬列那我問你這個部分你們可以調整嗎對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
14402.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
14416.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
哪邊可以調整就是這個所謂的這個科目啊下面的科目啊你這裡你說你118萬都要用在這裡嘛對不對118萬那你下面這個科目下面其他項目你是可以調整的我除了扣掉聯飛之外就只剩3萬5啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
14418.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
14430.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那其他的呢這個下面其他的還有你們上面的大廈裡面我們這個項目118萬就是匯匪跟雜項你這整個我剛說了這個科目總共編了1200萬你這是在下面的這個細項我剛講到是這個細項沒有錯我剛才講這個東西可是你這整個科目總共編了1200多萬那 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
14442.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
14469.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
你加入這個會費是的確你剛剛講了我們剛剛算了114萬6千114萬6千那你們總共編了118萬1千所以有3.5萬那在整個1200多萬的科目裡面你其他東西也是可以調你真的會因為這1萬塊完全影響到你們可不可以加入嗎所以這部分是我想要點出來的重點不過憑良心講這個目前1萬塊現在要解凍我也是沒什麼意見謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
14472.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
14491.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
我只是要告訴你說這一萬塊搞得好像是一千兩百分之一搞得好像是沒有辦法加入齁我只是要點出這個問題齁那第二 是不是第二案沒有 梁委員你不是要講 嘿阿六位行政委員已經在他的結論講出來了就是一萬元我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
14492.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
14509.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我想當初提案委員凍結一萬大概也是在給你們一個示警啦那你們你們大概反正廖偉強委員剛剛的結論也是他沒有意見所以所以我我想要告他 已經跟你說完了 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
14523.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
14546.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
謝謝主席包括像第二案件因為金額比較高我必須做一個說明民眾黨團要提案的凍結十億那我們的條件就是勞動部要提出勞保條例修法把政府最終給負責任入法請榮秀說明一下總統府2017年召開的國家年金改革委員會當時會計年金改革方案大概有十大重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
14547.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
14561.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
但是到現在為止只有實現了撥補政策那最重要的是我們等待的政府最終給付的入法還是沒有提出來那目前勞保平均每年虧損大概一千億以上那撥補是緩不及急 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
14562.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
14577.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
而且既然勞動部跟行政院一直強調勞保不會倒政府有最終幾負責任既然如此是不是就我們不要用空口說白話如果勞動部跟行政院都認為本來就是這個態度那麼入法才會有保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
14578.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
14591.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
否則如果將來換了院長換了部長又換了執政黨空口白話的成果對人民完全沒有保障所以我們是希望能夠將這個政府最終起負責任入法但很遺憾我們這次勞動部沒有提出任何資料沒有達到當初解凍的條件不過勞動部是有這個有來溝通希望能夠解凍那我們黨團也 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
14600.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
14625.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
也是說願意釋出善意退一步我們同意解凍但前提是勞動部要接受我們剛剛提到提出來的附帶決議那個附帶決議請大家請勞動部讀一下就在年底前提出修法也就是說這個實意我們今天可以解凍但是再給勞動部多大概半年以上的時間去準備修法我想這樣應該是有誠意跟善意的這個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
14625.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
14654.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那這個法我覺得大家都知道已經存在很大的問題了那好像就是又是房間裡的大象大家又視而不見那一直拖一直拖要拖到哪一年哪一月那是不是就遲早要去面對他那洪部長你就勇敢的去面對他嘛這個你從勞運出身這個勞團出身這個就開始來做這件事情所以我們不是不能解凍就是說把這個這個提出這個說明的這個進度把你延後到年底之前提出來可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
14656.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
14680.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
來請說好那個跟跟委員做說明當然我們當然都希望這個因為這個涉及到10億元我們希望10億元可以解凍但我有幾個補充第一個確實是今天政府最終責任這幾個字有沒有入法我想現在政府上面就是是政府來負擔最終責任那第二個事情是我我自己確實Longboard的角度確實是認為這個修法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
14685.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
14708.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
討論我們是可以持一個比較開放的態度可是我要提醒因為這裡面涉及到可能不是只有勞動部也包括財主單位那如果要提出這樣子的一個修正的草案這也包括要經過行政院跟行政院裡面的財主單位的同意因為涉及到撥補因為撥補這件事情並不是勞動部自己就可以做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14709.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14724.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
所以我想跟村委員說明的地方是坦白說我其實是我自己我勞動部的角度來說我們確實覺得這件事情是可以開放性的討論這部分是我們的態度是這樣但是我很難代替 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14725.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14743.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
其他的財主單位承諾我們在什麼時候一定會提出什麼樣子的法案尤其是經過行政院通過的法案我很難代替其他單位因為這裡面確實是涉及到其他財主單位的權責因為它涉及到一些撥補法制化的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14745.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14759.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
這是我們在這裡面比較難我直接就答應你這件事情說什麼時候我就可以因為我的答應或者是我的承諾對於我沒有辦法代替其他的單位承諾我的問題會是在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14762.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14779.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
當然你有提到這個組總署態度是一件事但是因為這個還是勞動部主管這個勞保條例還是勞動部主管那你可不可以就是嘗試把這個法寫出來就是開始去行動去做爭取那這樣組織總署他就會加進來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14783.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14801.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
你不用自己承擔責任今天從這裡起步那我們解凍的數字可以討論但是你有一個進度嘛不然就是又擺著再過一個幾十年嗎所以我們是在想可不可以這樣就是說因為這個文字上面是寫說今年底前要提出這個修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14802.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14830.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
我自己是覺得說有沒有可能可以給我們一些時間然後我們願意來研議就是這個最終責任入法的可行性那這當然在研議可行性的過程裡面我們就會跟其他相關的這個組織單位或者是裁組單位因為也不只是組總坦白說不只是組總跟裁組單位來去做這方面的討論你也不用幫行政院擋子彈所以我剛剛講得很清楚就是你來啟動這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14830.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14852.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
然後就開始有動作 有行動我們願意找相關部會來做這件事情的討論這我們願意你就把它提出來可是我的意思是說今天一個部我今天從一個部的角度我今天要提出一個方案確實很可能我們是要經過在行政院內不同的單位的同意的因為你有一直在重複這件事那這樣這樣就是說我們解凍數字可以討論啦那你這個進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14853.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14866.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
或者由你先提出來你這個進度要跑嘛開始動嘛不然我們還是在原位嘛這樣好不好10年後20年還在原位啊我們可不可以比方3個月內我們研議這個最終責任入法的可行性 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14868.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14886.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
我們在三個月內來研議這件事情那在研議的過程當然我們會跟相關的單位來去做財主單位來做討論可是我們就研議這可行性的方式好不好因為我想委員會很希望說我們這十億元其實在整個勞保基金裡面其實可以解凍我想這目標大家是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14887.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14911.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那個部長我們在場每一個人都懂延逸是什麼意思延逸就是說今天我們大家回家招致回家什麼事都沒有了當然不是但是就是這個法要啟動你就說你要啟動你把這個法送出來但是不用你自己來扛責任你就是開始跑你就是讓他開始跑行政責任就該行政責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14915.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14942.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
他就說他的研議他要開始做了他就是要開始啦我們就是在研議這件事情所以我們在研議的過程就會找其他單位一起來討論這當然也是一種討論跟就是往入法的方向去走你就是入法入法立委也可以提修法啊你跟我說提研議那這是空白的啊是空白的啊入法我們就直接提修法就可以改啦好來來楊委員要講一下好不好各位先許一下請聽楊委員的講法 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14944.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14966.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
我其實是一直對勞動部遲遲不肯提出政府最終自負責任這件事情是很有意見我相信不同黨派的委員提案版本已經很多那我是建議本委員會就是行政院不提 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14967.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14994.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我們是不是下一個會期就排審委員的提案委員自己提案嘛他自己通過啊我的已經提案一陣子了我覺得說勞保改革講了這麼多年連政府最終給負責任執政黨都不敢擔保這件事情我自己覺得非常的不可思議 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14996.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
15014.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
其他的欄改這個我們可以體諒可是你連讓勞工辛苦了一輩子讓他安心說我一定領得到這個我們都不做我還真的不知道怎麼替黨辯護好請林委員部長等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
15019.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
15035.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我必須要再講這裡是講這是保險 社會保險但是呢我們知道這個社會保險的族群太大了上千萬的投保的人還包括未來的移工不要忘了過去那麼多的移工他們都有繳納保費但到第15年要領的時候我們沒有讓他停下來所以他們還沒有他們都沒領他們給他盡責任他們都還沒有拿回他們的權利耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
15046.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
15062.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
他們可以回來領如果未來開放的話也可以領那我們知道這是社會保險社會保險意思是說所有的保護大家共同分擔然後集體去承接住個人這樣才叫做社會保險但是因為這個幾乎是一半的台灣國民了 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
15066.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
15093.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
一半的台灣國民的時候你政府說社會保險不是政府的福利政策啊那都說不過去所以政府要負最終責任這是既有的但是最終的給負責任絕對不是只有政府嘛不是只有政府但是呢有人主張全部都丟給政府那主張的人就提案就修法然後就可以通過啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
15094.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
15111.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
大家通過就遵照這個法律通過的去執行啊所以這是一個政治這不純粹只是一個制度制度要可長可久那政治隨時可以介入但是我要講說政府當然也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
15112.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
15132.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
道德責任因為一半的國民都是投保的保護這個社會保險雖然是社會保險不是政府的錢算起來也稱不上是政府的責任但是有一半的國民在這個社會保險裡面政府要說沒有責任這是不可能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
15133.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
15144.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
這絕對是不可能的但我們要把法律寫得這麼死嗎法律要寫得這麼死嗎除了法律以外事實上政治責任隨時可以問責嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
15146.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
15161.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
隨時可以問責 有時候說 不准調漲保費 也不准政府撥補不准調漲保費 這個水池的水都快乾了 也不能調整也不准撥補 現在是怎樣 不能吃草 又要碼而保然後又要領得到 現在是要在地上落下去嗎還不能減少給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
15171.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
15178.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
所以這個制度合一開始研議我們講的不是今天在這裡30分鐘可以討論完的啦人家要讀這麼多年可以說幾天幾夜全國的學者一起來全國的產官學都一起來雇主勞工學界政府通通都一起來幾天幾夜都講不完 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
15196.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
15216.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
啊今天在這裡,他就說他要開始去研議他就只能這樣子,你還要叫他做怎麼樣你要叫他修法,啊我們立法院,我們立法委員耶我們要修法,我們有意見,我們自己拿出來我們自己可以審嘛你站在民意這一邊,我們就好通過啦就是這麼簡單一個案子要討論喔,認真討論喔,再討論三天也討論不完 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
15225.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
15252.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
好謝謝來部長要回應來那個我想在一樣在跟陳委員包括幾位委員說明我自己對這個議題我是持開放態度的我確實是覺得政府在這裡面要辦一定的政治責任可是其實就是剛剛像林委員剛才說明的其實有財主單位他們在我們跟他們討論這個過程他們提出來的顧慮也包括是林委員剛才提供的包括在講到這個事情裡面的社會保險的這個性質 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
15254.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
15277.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
所以這個事情確實是我沒有辦法在這個當下我就代替其他的財主單位說我們就在什麼時候提出我沒有辦法在這個部分做出這樣子的承諾但是我自己或勞動部我們是很願意啟動這個討論的我們是願意啟動這個討論的這也是為什麼說希望文字是讓我們有一個研議的過程那我們的研議過程當然是要找其他單位來討論這就是剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
15280.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
15306.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
陳昭智委員講的 啟動這個討論可是我沒有辦法在這邊承諾這件事情最大的責任是老闆啦老闆要繳最多的錢啦我知道 叫老闆來繳錢繳多一點啦問責於老闆啦你就叫老闆來繳錢啦行政院沒有版本啊那就是立法院的版本喔就是立法院的版本喔當然就立法院的版本要來討論大家還是可以討論的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
15307.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
15328.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
還是可以討論的事情可是我的意思是說如果是要行政部門提出一個代表行政院的版本這裡面涉及到確實很多在行政院不同單位之間對這件事情的看法有些人有些單位可能從政府的政治責任來看這件事情有些會從剛剛就像林委員剛才林淑芬委員剛才講到社會保險的本身的性質來看你不要以後因為我沒有聽到這邊右邊耳朵關起來了麻煩繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
15338.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
15358.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
因為確實在勞保這是一個社會保險社會保險其實等於是所有參保的人大家一起來共同分擔那所以會有財主單位他也會持這個看法來對於這個保險改革的方向部長我期許說你可以開始為勞工作因為這個事情是長年很久的事情啦但是我們也不是要你一個部長來承擔嘛所以就是說你要嘗試啟動嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
15362.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
15381.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那因為立法院這邊一定有版本嘛那如果到時候你們自己沒有版本那立法院的版本我們就推啊對不對這當然是立法院的權益這當然是立法院的權利說相關的法案的審查可是我的意思是說就那你今天可以明確的講你要怎麼做嗎可不可以更具體一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
15381.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
15398.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
我今天就是說跟成員討論說在這一個版本裡面我們是希望是可以給我們三個月的時間裡面來研議這個勞保修正的草案將最終責任入法的可行性我們是希望能不能改成用這個方式那我們會啟動相關討論這啟動當然也會找其他財主單位來去討論我們也會 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
15403.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
15424.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
不對那個可行性我是比較有點意見啦就是說你就是這個修法就是開始要啟動了啦你現在說可行不可行那你回來跟我說啊不可行啊就結束了大家就回到原點了你那個文字我們討論一下我們等一下這個我的目的是讓你趕快啟動不是要控制你的費用我們請問這個案再稍稍保留一下我們等一下請一下我們再再要保留前讓我發言一下請說明可以可以他講完了我再講好兩位講完了換林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
15432.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
15457.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
我要求有另外一種方案這個整個勞保政府的撥補政府是誰政府是我們大家每一個納稅人可是這個社會保險責任最重的是雇主腳踢成了是雇主大家都不敢得罪雇主然後不敢漲保費要扛人民之愧叫人民來補雇主的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
15459.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
15464.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
欸 少子化 你叫人民一直來撥補你們的英文人民都有錢的你們的英文財政都健康正常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
15467.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
15479.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
所以你在研議要加一個如果政府沒有撥補 漲保費 那個狀況會是怎麼樣要放進去 放風險整個社會保險 勞保制度它的風險會怎麼樣 財務估算給它算一下雇主責任才是最重要的雇主都沒責任 等著政府來幫雇主買單對不對 大家都做好人 叫政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
15495.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
15512.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
沒有喔 政府是人民喔 扛人民之愧喔我剛剛又有打開 所以您淑芬委員的意見非常好部長也認真聽 都要把它寄進去那部長就是這樣 我們這個解凍是OK的但是你就是說最終要交給我們的東西是你說剛剛說什麼 你要怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
15517.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
15538.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
給我一些進度的報告就是三個月我們會給這個相關這個修法的的研議的可行性啦這樣好不好對那可行性裡面不會可行性裡面不會只說可行或不可行啦就是說相關的這個機制會產生什麼影響對啊包括林委員提出的一些機制你總要啟動嘛我只說你要啟動嘛是是是好不好好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
15539.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
15556.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
主席好啦 我們決定 但是我們等報告報告好好寫 拜託報告好好寫 誠心的寫 誠心的寫好 謝謝本案就同意動之 並通過修正後的互代決議一項要不要宣讀 請宣讀對 請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
15566.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
15591.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
你要給我沒唸也可以你自己唸也可以好那我想這個那個成員這邊有一個提案就我唸最後未確立撥補應常態化給付確定化政府應將最終給付責任入法實為正確最好原提案要求勞動部於三個月內研議勞工保險條例修正草案將政府最終責任入法之可行性以回應國人期待好 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
15592.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
15616.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
可以啦OK好那我們就照照這樣的戶待局域修正後通過接下來第10案來第10案本案就解斷案有意見如果沒有意見就投意解凍好有意見來 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
15618.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
15635.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我這裡想要問一下因為根據預算解凍說明的第三頁有關鼓勵勞工續留職場那有提到為了鼓勵勞工續留職場勞保設有相關機制如老年給付展延年金或是年金給付年資採集無上限等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
15635.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
15664.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
那勞動部也會持續宣導這個勞工保險制度相關規定請問一下勞動部要宣導有沒有設定什麼樣的量化目標如何宣導那過去也有宣導那現在宣導的成效怎麼樣有沒有所謂的宣導成果那我想每一分公帑都是人民的納稅錢剛剛有講所以要宣導我也很同意我只是想要讓也至少讓國人知道一下現在宣導的成效是什麼那我們怎麼去評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
15665.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
15683.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那另外何況這個部分是連立法院的預算中心都有寫報告裡面有說沒宣費用過度集中部分媒體那我覺得這個有疑慮既然連立法院的預算中心都有寫出這個東西所以就是要請勞動部說明一下這個宣傳的成果給國人知道請簡單扼要重點說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
15690.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
15713.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
各位報告就是勞保的宣導其實我們每一年都有25場次到各縣市政府去宣導每個縣市都有那另外我們在救保或者是災保也都有各各項的研習所以我們對於勞工的比如說承辦人啊投保單位啊或無一定僱主的這些勞工我們都有定期的一些我知道你們怎麼去評估這個成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
15714.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
15733.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我們其實都有問卷調查對這個研討會的滿意度大概都有到九成滿意度都有到九成所以你說宣導的滿意度有九成對另外就是這個部分現在想要請問一下因為剛剛其實也有討論到這個基金投資運用的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
15734.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
15759.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
那剛剛有講到現在有關於匯率關稅等等的雙殺那現在我剛剛也有跟我們相關部會討論我這裡是想要再次的強調關於這個避險機制關於避險機制可能要再再去用心一下我們私下有講對不起我插一下好不好因為現在是第十案是在講這個勞動保險業務的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
15763.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
15792.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
童節節冬安這提案是亞委員你講我剛剛也尊重這是其一但是你也有我的名字聽我講完對不起你講我都沒有差因為我們是報告事項院會交給我們報告事項基本上其實是一包因為剛剛你們沒有來的時候曾昭志委員幫你們提的總共59萬就貼了30項全部要要要保留我其實也不用保留是可以直接就進戶表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
15794.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
15804.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
但是後面我沒有這麼做還是希望說你們要表達意見我是給各位表達意見我們後面還有17個討論事項17案討論事項所以在報告事項裡面我是希望這樣因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
15809.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
15838.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
的條件裡面很清楚只要提書面報告就解凍嘛除了說你覺得他的書面報告是不行所以我們是針對這個案這個案來好不好就聚焦在這個案嘛其他後面還有很多案你如果要表達我都可以可以接受我希望你的意思就是要再更精簡一點表達意見嘛對不對好OK好沒有問題喔所以我剛剛只是表達說在這個部分我剛剛質詢到的然後那個相關部門也知道了所以這個案我這邊沒有意見看其他人有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
15839.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
15843.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我想提一個跟大家同仁之間講一個程序面的問題其實這個預算對我們委員會相當不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
15848.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
15869.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
這個委員會大家很認真在這裡不曉得第一案第二案這樣逐條審完而且詳詳細細的審完結果到院會裡面所有委員會審議的結果都沒有被尊重我們通過到那裡隨時人家就翻案翻掉了然後呢又重來一遍然後又到這裡再跑一遍 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
15870.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
15895.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
我的意思是說,我們希望各黨團都回去跟大家講委員會審議通過的,請他們都不要到院會再翻案那認為有不夠的,盡量都不要否則我們後來都委員會不用審嘛大家才過了工,過了明星,到晚上去跟院會實施都不好,我們在這裡審的委員會中心主義蕩然無存 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
15898.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15905.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
在這裡拜託各黨團我們不管誰執政都一樣就是說我們委員會審議要尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15906.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15934.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
不然就說一遍 再說一遍 再說一遍然後到院會再說一遍現在要解凍報告事項再說一遍再去改成討論事項再說一遍這樣我們一條議事 講一條議事講一條有可能在這裡要討論四遍四遍這不是委員會中心主義這真的是在浪費大家 折磨大家嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15936.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15959.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
好 謝謝了 我在這邊再做一個報告因為早上是我們先處理這個院會交付給我們的這個報告事項共計59案那當然有委員提出來有針對30案還有一些意見所以我就暫行保留那報告事項裡面基本上就是只要書面報告提出來那就請各位委員來酌情是不是有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15959.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15983.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
但沒有意見我們就通過 有意見當然我們就看是要表決還是則起這是起義啦齁那另外我們剛剛還有在宣讀有17個案是列入在討論事項裡面那這17案可能是大家還有一些不盡周詳之處要再討論那當然還是要尊重各位我們委員會的意見嘛齁所以這是有兩個部分我來做這樣的一個處理齁所以剛剛有跟各位做這樣的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15985.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
16013.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
那就看各位怎麼樣然後現在我們先針對第十案第十案是不是請教各位委員本案解凍有意見好沒有意見好謝謝那我們就同意解凍那接下來第十三案好各位就本案解凍有意見各位同仁如果沒有那我們就同意解凍那第十四案好沒有那我們就同意解凍好不好好謝謝第十五案 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
16016.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
16037.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
如果沒有那我們就同意解凍第16案接下來第16案本案就解凍有意見沒有那我們就解凍第17案本案解凍有無意見沒有那我們就同意解凍其實水電費以外像文宣其實要認真討論啦媒體宣傳費可以認真討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
16038.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
16063.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
阿水電其實是不用討論的 水電可不可以造假 可不可以灌水 可不可以挖井 不可能嘛阿那媒體會 文宣會會不會服用亂用 亂用 欸有可能啊所以要看項目嘛 這種就再講一下好 謝謝來第18案 本恩救解凍案 解凍有意見沒有 那我們就同意解凍第19案 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
16064.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
16087.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
有一個意見好請說我針對就是外送員報酬那我有一個預算案是希望能夠落實他的薪資計算方式要透明化因為這樣子對勞工來講才有可預測性那勞動部給我的回應那看起來比較像是說好像感覺上是交給了交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
16087.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
16114.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
因為交通部最近在跟平台談論那個所謂的那個外送的費用的事情那我認為就是說因為那個費用是算是平台的盈利那跟外送員報酬的工資計算方式應該是分開的所以是不是能夠請勞動部還是積極做這件事那我還是可以解凍那我只是跟讓部長知道一下這個回應方式我並不太滿意以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
16115.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
16139.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
可以解凍我先說明好請說明提到提到交通部的原因是因為現在行政院是我們把這個外送平台尤其是這個像uber或者幾個的外送平台的阻擇機關是設在交通部但是確實現在勞動部跟交通部是針對因為剛剛委員在講的其實是關於運價的透明化因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
16141.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
16166.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
外送員的薪資是來自於運價所以主要是運價的透明化的部分我們確實現在是跟交通部一起在做這個事情的討論並沒有都丟給交通部但是因為你們給我的回覆是說等到那邊討論完之後然後也並沒有說要來處理這個事情運價的透明化我們是包括這幾個月一直跟交通部我們一起在討論中所以並不是等交通部自己討論而是一起對我們是一起討論的好那謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
16170.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
16178.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
好所以19案我們還是同意解鬥嘛各位沒有意見啦對對19案來19案不好意思主席因為我們其實針對他的報告事項內容去問問題嘛對對對所以這個本木的預算編列是6161萬凍結100萬嘛大概凍結1.6%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
16186.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
16193.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
那這科目裡面的02的分支計劃編列這151,000元出國經費那依照預算說明是參加這個國際勞工及就業關係協會第14屆的歐洲大會那想要請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
16201.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
16219.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
因為我去查了一下這個辦在英國的杜倫大學商學院主要是發表最新研究成果我是好奇想請問勞動部跟所屬的哪個單位或是勞動部有沒有委外給學校做研究讓這個委外成果去投稿並且已經被接受論文發表 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
16220.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
16238.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
然後第二個就是因為去年也有類似的經費它是也是同一個東西在第二十屆世界年會舉辦地點是紐約但去年是它是年會去年是單也只有編八萬七千元所以這兩個預算弄下去怪怪的所以我想要了解一下是這個是有去投稿或什麼的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
16241.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
16261.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
跟委員報告 我們並沒有在任何地方有說明到說我們要去投稿或發表沒有我們並沒有 我在提的報告上也沒有提到就是說我們會去那邊 主要我們都去聽取他們世界現在很多地方的最近的勞資關係的現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
16262.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
16285.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
然後我們帶回來然後在很多政策上做很重要的參考但是因為每一次的地點不太一樣所以那個預算的編列確實因為現在的交通費用也很貴所以有時候如果地點如果太過於遙遠的話我們的費用可能就沒有辦法來吃應OK好我沒有意見好謝謝那第19案我們就同意解凍接下來第20案沒有意見那就同意解凍第21案 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
16291.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
16295.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
好那同意解凍第二十二案同意解凍第二十四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
16302.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
16330.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
二次案這邊也有一個那我儘快那針對那個性別薪資透明化的部分那勞部部的回覆那有一點點不太沒有回應到透明化比較回應的是同工同酬的檢核表因為同工同酬檢核表就算做得好的話還是有一個性別薪資沒有透明化那我要提醒一下那個是賴清德總統的就是婦女跟性別的相關的政見之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
16331.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
16356.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
好那這部分希望可以加強那另外一個是關於就是針對非個案性別工作平等法裡面非個案的制度性歧視是不是能夠比照勞動檢查法就能夠由工會代表提出申請那可是你們的回覆是不行那這部分我也是希望可以因為法條中好像沒有明定那可是勞動檢查法其實工會就可以代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
16356.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
16380.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
那現在講的是不是個案的而是制度性的歧視譬如說服役那這部分也是希望勞動部可以再思考那第三個是關於我要求職場的性別歧視希望納入性傾向性別認同能夠強化宣傳那這部分肯定你們說你們回覆沒有回覆得很清楚但是後來有跟我們說會找明天團體討論做法那我覺得這樣很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
16382.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
16400.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
最後就是關於也是賴清德總統提出的不分性別家長參與育兒那如果都有就是臨滿六個月的話會加發那你們會回應會修法來處理那這點我表示肯定以上並沒有要凍結只是把我滿意跟覺得不夠好的地方提出來謝謝好 謝謝 陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
16403.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
16428.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
好 關於這個解凍報告裡面提到工時的部分啦這邊是想建議部長是不是再多增加幾個部分因為這個總工時非常長期是勞動部你們自己發出來的統計可是你後來又說到說比較全日工時我是覺得你去找裡面對你們比較有利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
16430.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
16451.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
寫進這個報告不是很OK但是今天早上您在外面受訪的時候您有提到說除了增加國定假日還不夠其實變相也等於說您是承認這個工時是長的只是增加假日還不夠你還有很多要繼續努力的地方可是您的解凍報告裡面只有寫說你要用彈性工時去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
16452.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
16477.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
所以你要不要把你早上零零總總發表的這麼多可以解決工時問題的事都增加進去您的報告裡面您早上接受記者訪問的時候說比如說團體協約也有助透過勞動檢查也有助最低工資等等減少勞工被迫要退休你講了很多耶但是你的解凍報告裡面沒有耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
16478.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
16501.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
這個跟著說明我當然是認為我們的工時的狀況是有是有改善的空間的所以我並沒有覺得說我們現在工時現在就已經表現的很好了並不是這樣所以剛剛講說不管是現在但現在之前大家在討論國定假日的部分休假的部分那或者是團體協約或者是勞檢甚至但 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
16502.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
16524.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
我們看到一些國家他的工時相對比較低是因為他部分工時的比例比較高所以比方說我們未來如果可以更擴大比方說中高齡或者是婦女在這個重返職場的部分可以做到更多其實在數字上面也會有一些相對起來也會再降低一些可是這些種種的做法都是我們會去做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
16525.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
16547.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
這些所有做法都是我們會去做的事情主席是不是剛剛范委員的意見還有我的意見請部長補充到他的報告解凍報告裡面然後我們就解凍可以吧部長這邊同意就報告順便報告可能再修兩位委員的期待這樣好不好那我還是就是同意解凍那接下來第31案 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
16551.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
16555.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
各位同仁有沒有意見沒有意見那我們就同意解凍第三個事案 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
16557.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
16581.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
報告主席那四案是有關逃逸移工移工的問題其實今天早上在質詢的時候我前面陳委員林委員也問了非常多表示大家是很在意的可是您的報告是有五點我這邊講一下您有講到五點第一點其實您只是簡單的講移工目前的狀況第二點跟第三點 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
16582.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
16596.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
是舊的112年就有的但沒有做好所以我們還是會說沒有辦法解決要拿出新的方法第四點其實是一個政策宣示而已您在講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
16597.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
16622.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
持續推動比如說改善缺工改善移工薪資加強仲介管理可是具體你要怎麼做沒有講這個跟你們網站的內容幾乎是一模一樣第五點是我在寫提案的時候就說你們只有三家查三家然後查到有三家行蹤不明真的太少這跟一般人民的認知完全不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
16624.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
16637.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
所以我是希望你們加強可以做查核結果你又把它列到解凍報告裡面說已經辦理三次我就是認為三次還有三家行蹤不明真的完全不符合人民的認知啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
16642.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
16661.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
來 請留言我順便針對這題也補充一下第一個依照解凍說明這個112年的失聯移工是3.1萬人113年是2.5萬可是說明裡面沒有提到失聯移工的總數請問一下部長現在最新失聯移工的總數數據是多少截至3月底是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
16662.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
16680.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
那再來第二個就是補助核發查處機關團體績效獎金4000萬那未來還要規劃調整團體績效獎金之核發方式以激勵團隊查查的士氣請問一下這個是要再提高總體的獎金嗎預計提高多少何時要開始執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
16681.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
16702.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
那另外我們發放團體獎金的目的是什麼看起來就是是不是因為失能讓逃跑移工越來越多制度有問題結果你就一直在補很多的錢進去然後希望大家去努力的去抓和查查所以我覺得這個部分是不是凸顯了在這部分的制度和管理失能以上請部長對面回答好來請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
16706.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
16725.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
是 謝謝委員的指教我想有關失戀義工的問題是長期也有結構面的問題累積到目前為止失戀人數大概是九萬兩千餘人我們採取了各項的措施包括從需求面跟供給面 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
16726.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
16749.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
所以在今年這兩年我們其實也針對目前市場上所反映的缺工問題進行一些處理所以在移工的合配包括營造業跟農業的部分我們有採取一些放寬的措施就是解決一些缺工問題也避免這個市場的吸引力那在這個此外我們在管理面上也採取了一些措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
16756.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
16770.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
在管理裡面我們也採取了各項措施包括各位剛所指教的這個強化外國仲介管理的這個部分那確實外國仲介管理的力道也許我們還要再強化因為基本上我們是比較是受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
16771.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
16784.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
民眾的這個檢舉的部分所以可能不是主動的去查查那這個部分我想我們在機制上未來還是有這個精進的空間那現在只要是查獲它試煉比例過高的部分呢我想我們都還是會處以這所謂的聽權處分那讓這個仲介公司稍微有一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
16791.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
16818.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
必須要配合相關的改進那我想我們各項的措施都一直在進行當中那此外在查器面呢我們也是配合移民署以及相關的友軍團隊進一步的去查查那查查的部分呢因為基本上他們這個失聯人數的升高所以確實有一些經費在需求上也會希望我們在基金方面可以予以支持因為他們的收容的人數也越來越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
16819.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
16833.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
那我想這個是整體面的問題都是我們需要跨部會大家一起共同去面對的那現在先做這樣的說明好 李委員好啦 我講白的啦 我現在講白的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
16833.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
16854.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
因為從COVID-19到現在COVID-19的時候因為外籍移工的引進是停滯的所以從COVID-19那幾年我們對移工管理的政策是視而不見逃跑外籍移工視而不見抓到了當作沒抓到我現在要問我講白的就是要問這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
16858.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16870.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
因應國內勞動力的短缺供不應求我們對逃跑的外籍移工這個政策還是連續性的基本上的默契是這樣子對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16871.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16899.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
如果是這樣子的話 到將近十萬人的時候難道我們在管理政策上不用與時俱進去想你們如果真的要這樣子那未來是要變更你的管理管理制度要務實的看待 又要納管那方法會是什麼那沒有逃跑的 因為不是比較高那我們對於他們 我們的管理模式也一樣要變革 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16901.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16904.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
所以我就在這裡說這個不要再說抓移工是很大的矛盾還有很大的問題才會去抓啦現在就不去抓移工啊然後也拜託移工逃跑的你也來幫我上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16915.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16939.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
營造業 工廠 有沒有用逃跑的他缺工 老闆顧主就罵政府所以現在政府沒有人理他講的啦但越來越多也不是問題但越來越多 怎麼納管務實的納管 就是問題了嘛所以這個問題 應該是要從這裡要有新思維 要有新方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16940.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16968.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
好 請陳委員主席我是建議因為剛剛他們也認為他們自己寫的不夠好是不是我們就擇期等他們提供更具體的方法能說服我們委員因為這個議題幾乎是每一個人都很在意很多人在質詢的 謝謝所以妳是建議我是建議擇期啊對 我是建議擇期因為剛剛官員們也認為真的他們寫的不夠好啊他沒有新方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16969.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16987.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
部長要再說明是不是?我們今天還是想爭取這個案子能夠解凍但是今天在逃跑移工的問題上面坦白說我自己認為過去有一些管理的作為跟管制的做法其實那個才是因 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16989.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
17017.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那逃跑是或者是逃逸是最後的果所以這裡面確實是涉及到整個我們移工管理制度其實從過去可能是十幾萬二十幾萬到現在已經八九十萬其實在數量的尺度上面都出現一個高度的不同的時候我是同意在這個數量尺度不同的狀況下面我們在移工管理的做法是需要有一些變革而且這變革是可以預見可能未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
17018.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
17046.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
甚至移工的數量在我們少子化跟高齡化的狀況之下未來移工的數量可能再多包括像舊武法46條修過以後是有可能還增加的所以在不同的數量尺度上面會有不同的作為我是同意的可是我還是想針對這還是想要爭取這一案的解凍因為這個部分的制度面的變革說實話它並不是一件簡單的事情大家應該可以理解這幾乎是30年來這是30年來的制度的累積 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
17047.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
17070.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
所以我們是想爭取這個案子的部分但是我們會來想辦法因為面對要面對這件事因為未來的移工在台灣的數量真的可能還會再繼續增加我們過去的管理的方法我們必須很誠實的面對它是有一些結構性而且某些時空當下我們是設立了這個制度可是未來是不是要調整這個我們要很誠實的面對這個問題我是用這個態度在處理這個問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
17072.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
17088.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
所以我想新商人以後他也壓力也很大因為我們不斷不斷的都是在討論這個問題甚至我們也希望能夠引進或者是參考別的國家相對應的做法這部分我們都一直在研議中所以可是我們還是希望這個案是不是能夠先讓我們能夠解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
17090.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
17116.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
主席我發表一下意見我想大家對失業勞工他們帶來對社會的問題真的是非常期待有更好的方式來解決不過針對這一案基本上凍結的數目也不是那麼多所以陳委員這邊可不可以再考量看看如果說在積極的作為上面可以再請勞動部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
17117.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
17128.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
有補充說明的話那是不是就能夠讓他依照我們所期待的能夠讓他可以順利的解凍 以上好 網委這麼建立看總委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
17131.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
17149.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
不好意思主席因為他剛講的內容跟他的報告落差真的蠻大的落差很大喔那我們就這樣做一個處理好不好現在休息5分鐘謝謝你們溝通一下這樣好不好因為已經10點半到現在了也讓大家去OK 抱歉趁機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
17154.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
17179.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
還是你要寫一個不太熟悉的?因為你這個...我先講一下,這一組是一個很大的活動它實在是一個非常強大的活動這部份是一個非常強大的活動我們這邊,雖然是兩組的活動但是整個是三條的活動所以我...所以主張一直拚這組的活動所以我沒有進入過一個決定坦白說,剛剛我跟我們講,剛剛我是...大廚部的主持人所以這組是廚師當中的主持人 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
17456.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
17475.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
好 休息時間到我們針對三十一案嘛 對不起 三十四案來 請說來我們剛剛溝通我們剛剛溝通完畢所以洪部長覺得這是一個三十年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
17476.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
17486.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
老舊的科舊嘛是一時之間他沒有累積下來的所以他一時半刻是沒有辦法想出什麼具體方法但他會補充報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
17489.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
17508.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
補充在這個報告裡陳委員並不是說一時半刻無法想出什麼方法我們其實現在正在研議其實我覺得確實我們這個報告是可以寫得更好第一個比方說我們現在也在強化我們在轉換上面的功能因為很多的移工他是在轉換的過程裡面他可能在等待新的雇主的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
17508.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
17536.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
他在這裡面他會出現逃跑或失聯的狀況所以我們也在強化我們在轉換中心裡面的功能其實這一兩年經驗的累積目前我們也累積出一些不錯的經驗這裡面是可以盡量的去減少在轉換過程裡面的這個移工的逃跑的問題可是確實我們我剛才看一下我們報告裡面其實沒有提到這些地方這是我們可以再補強的部分所以我們願意把一些該補強部分補強進去可是還是希望爭取今天能夠解凍好 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
17537.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
17549.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
所以他們會補充資料然後解凍對就同意解凍然後請他們把報告修正後再呈給委員好不好好謝謝好謝謝那事實上我們就同意解凍第35萬來請六人好我這裡有個問題我想要請問一下這個TTQS教育訓練的講師怎麼選的然後你們是怎麼產生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
17566.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
17572.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
來請快說明有嗎可以說明嗎沒辦法說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
17598.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
17599.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
來 請書長說明我也要請同仁說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
17631.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
17653.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
TTKS教育訓練講師已經有將近7年我們沒有我們過去領選的方式是會有一個那個專業人員的一個那個考試的一個訓練只是我們已經都大概將近7至少7年以上我們沒有再開這樣子的訓練我們最近一次針對TTKS三類專業人員就是還有一個平和委員跟輔導顧問的那個領選是在最近一次在去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
17655.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
17683.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
辦理的所以因為我為什麼這樣問因為我去上網去查了一下你們這個訓練的講師有多位是沒有學經歷連畢業學校都沒有就一個名字掛在那裡所以如果是業師是不是應該也把相關的經歷寫上去所以我才問說但你們這個到底怎麼產出的我們會擔心你這個是怎麼領選的你是隨便覺得說你可以當講師就來嗎這是我覺得看到我的擔憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
17684.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
17711.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
所以這部分可以解釋一下嗎?有這部分其實那個針對TTQS的那個教育訓練講師其實他都會有一些業界的經驗只是我們在網站上的資訊可能在資訊完整結論的部分我們會再盡快有多位是沒有學經歷連畢業學校都沒有就一個名字關啊對我們會盡快補上好那是要補上之後再解凍嗎?還是我們就是再一個禮拜補上 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
17715.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
17734.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
好那如果沒有你們一個禮拜內會把它補上好不好然後也把這個你們到底怎麼產生這個TTQS講師的相關資料提供給本席辦公室好那我們就是先同意解凍嘛然後他一個星期內要把相關的資料補送給廖委員好那就同意解凍第三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
17741.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
17764.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
这部分我想要请教一下部长说明一下这个大专青年的预聘计划产业新兼兵计划113年共培训了我看到资料是38936那投资青年就业方案113年说培训了224,008个人那这几个计划是有重复吗这些人有重复吗还是重复计算还是分开的 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
17765.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
17775.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
報告委員基本上第一個提到的大大人體小人體的計劃培訓是26萬然後這個後面的這個大專青年預聘38000跟後面的所稱的這個職前訓練49000這個都是分開的都是各自的嗎都是各自的計劃然後對象也不同所以他們裡面的人是沒有重複的沒有我們合計總計三支計劃應該是35萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
17789.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
17805.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
OK那我再提一下因為以審計部的查核意見各年度平均訓後一年是八成但是各領域的班別就業率是大概是71%到95%不等所以而且這個111年的結訓的就業學員他工作內容或就業的行業 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
17809.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
17836.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
職業別跟訓練職類有關聯的大概只有7成70.38%那我這邊要提醒這部分你們應該要再加強改進看是不是也要回去研議一下把這個改進的措施提供給本席辦公室那這裡我今天可以先解凍我把這些數字告訴你們好可以了好那我們就同意解凍相關資料再補充給廖委員好37案我們就這樣同意解凍38案 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
17842.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
17859.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
好 38案應該可以來 對不起就本案解凍有意見如果沒有我們就同意解凍好 謝謝40案來 各位就本案解凍有意見如果沒有我們就同意解凍41案各位針對本案解凍有意見沒有那我們就同意解凍42案 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
17872.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
17898.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
來各位沒有好那我們就本案同意解凍第43案沒有謝謝來本案解凍就同意解凍第45案好沒有好那我們就同意解凍第47案沒有就同意解凍51案好那我們就同意解凍52案 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
17901.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
17903.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
好那我們就同意解凍54案同意那我們就本案同意解凍55案講一下來講一下好請講我先請教一下就是每年的重大職災平均大概幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
17924.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
17936.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
歷年來?重大實災,如果有死亡人數,去年已經降到287人叫前一年檢討13個人歷年?對,在前一年是300個人過去是大概300,現在已經慢慢降到200多人了那你們這一案的歷年的預算編列大概落在多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
17962.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
17978.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
跟委員報告他這個是因為災保法過後過去是災保法之前有編到一千兩百萬那最近這幾年是逐步從六百萬降到四百萬但是問題是你們從來像今年也是去年也是沒有達標今年沒有達標 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
17981.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
17999.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
就是你要降低你的預算編列降低表示你的這個重大重大職災有下降你才可以減少這個預算的編列嗎可是可是你們設定的目標也沒有減少到你們沒有達標而且再來就是說你去年到今年你才減少13個而已啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
18000.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
18013.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
可以為您報告這個費用主要是用在未加保勞工的一個未住金那現在災保法過後基本上僱用一個人都全部要加保所以他是會用到這個災保基金那邊去 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
18014.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
18037.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
那在但是過去在歷年來就是說你們都沒有就是說重大重大職災發生的時候你們其實就已經有先調查過了才會列入重大職災的死亡嗎那那你他們在申請這個慰問金的時候就申請的時候你們還要再調查一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
18039.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
18053.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
沒有不用申請基本上現在我們在地方政府都有這個主動的一個專業的服務人員去主動來協助他不是用他申請我們直接就會去協助他了所以這個就有問題啊就是說他主動去協助啊有落實嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
18056.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
18082.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我都聽你在說 你有跟沒有 你點頭就是有我們曾經那個中間搞了好久被刁難的好意思講我剛才說了 你們不在吵啊目前 跟委員報告 基本上我們只要掌握到這次重大職災的話都會有專人去服務他是 是這樣子 那你今年執行了多少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
18084.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
18100.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
沒有啊 現在是五月嘛 你們現在大概有處理了幾件去年是26人 那今年我們這邊數據是不是適合再提供給委員對 現在手上沒有資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
18101.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
18117.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
好所以去年也就是只有26個26件事沒有投保的沒有遺漏任何的那因為我我想我提出這個案子我想主要只是只是提醒你們因為這個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
18119.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
18134.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
本來就是說一發生好你們調查完認定完其實有些就可以直接主動去發放了那也是希望你們可以落實然後不是說還要在那裡中間刁難東刁難西的好然後再來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
18141.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
18164.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
這個這個慰問金的發放他是從金額訂定是從民國九十一年開始一直到現在也過了二十幾年了然後這二十幾年當中整個不管你們預算也有增加然後物價也有調漲所以這個部分你們也應該要滾動去滾動式的去檢討他的慰問金的這個金額是否應該要調高是謝謝文官這部分那我們確實是確實已經在檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
18166.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
18179.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
最近都要簽辦的要適度的調高是好那這個部分我就同意解凍好同意解凍相關的補充報告再呈給陳委員好55案就同意解凍56案好那我們就同意解凍報告事項處理完畢接下來我們現在來審查討論事項第一案請委員有意見沒有那我們就同意解凍討論事項第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
18196.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
18224.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
有意見如果沒有意義那我們就同意解凍討論事項第三案沒有同意解凍第四案有意義如果沒有就同意解凍第五案有意義沒有就同意解凍第六案有意義沒有意義就同意解凍第七案有意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
18226.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
18256.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
那我們就同意解凍第8案有異議沒有就同意解凍第9案有異議沒有好那我們就同意解凍第10案有異議沒有那我們就同意解凍第11案有異議沒有沒有就同意解凍第12案有異議沒有好那我們就同意解凍第13案有異議沒有同意解凍第14案有異議沒有沒有我們就同意解凍第15案有異議沒有那我們就同意解凍第16案有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
18257.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
18286.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
沒有就同意解凍第第17案有異議那我們就同意解凍有點不太習慣好謝謝好好現在做以下決定及決議114年度中央政府總預算決議有關勞動部主管預算凍結案計76案含報告事項59案及討論事項17案以上76案均處理完畢那均同意動之 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
18287.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
18297.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
並提報院會該修正報告給個別人一定要提供好謝謝那本次會議到此結束現在散會好謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
18317.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
18317.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
謝謝大家。 |