| IVOD_ID |
166740 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166740 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-31 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-31T09:26:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-31T09:44:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c2638f9bef880eb1f67063ba8c17b100b1ecef7239bdfb16fb1c3064c91a0f45f6fa5687ff727cf65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:26:10 - 09:44:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-31T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請法務部部長率所屬相關單位、司法院副秘書長、內政部警政署、行政院國土安全辦公室就「無差別攻擊犯罪事件之防治與量刑檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、併案審查
(一)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「政務人員法草案」案。
(二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「政務人員行為基準法草案」案。
【第（二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】
【僅進行詢答】） |
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謝謝主席 麻煩有請考試院秘書長法務部部長監察院今天的代表好 麻煩幾位機關代表主席好 謝謝委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
60.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
針對今天所排審有關於翁曉琳委員跟羅志強委員所提出的政務人員法我先請代表台灣民眾黨立法院黨團表達支持理由非常的簡單過去在扁政府時期到馬政府時期兩度都曾經提出過政務人員法但是或許當初因為改革的決心不足或許 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
62.649 |
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對於一些政務人員相關的規範不想要用法律規範自己的行為導致沒有完成立法其實在立法院觀察立法院裡面的運作就知道當你反對一部法律的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
105.702 |
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最好的方式從來都不是說我反對最好的方式就是說要再研議再討論再商量能拖就拖能混就混時間過了就沒有關係現在有非常多的問題都反映出來為什麼這個政務人員法有必要我先從第一件事情開始請教一下考試院 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
132.378 |
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陳菊院長從2024年12月請假他生病請假這個我覺得人之常情希望他能夠早日康復那但是國家必須要有制度在國家的制度下我們目前的政務官請病假最長可以請多久現在是依照這個公務人請假的規定來處理但這個詳細的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
135.495 |
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要部長還是要人事長誰法規比較熟誰上來回答根據請假規則應該這樣講他可以先把休假什麼請完以後然後兩年裡面最多可以就是說他可以先請他可以有兩應該這樣講兩年裡面可以有請到一年可以請到一年嘛那目前陳菊院長請假超過一年沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
163.816 |
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185.01 |
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呃 我的了解 因為他是分年嘛因為今年還有明年 今年應該還沒有那再叫明年 那實際的個案要捐財案才具體的了解沒有啊 今年 今年你講的是2025年嘛今年還沒有 還 他的今天幾號 今年12月31號嘛今天12月31號 去年12月就開始請了嘛他會把士兵價什麼都先扣掉嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
186.796 |
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所以還要繼續然後特休也要把它放進去嗎不是啊我是一個法律人我聽到這個我已經聽不下去了我為什麼聽不下去病假就病假試假就試假休假就休假 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
206.493 |
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218.728 |
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我跟委員報告 他是之前先請他的休假先請他的病假所以他一開始去住院的時候是用市假的名義去住院嗎是嗎具體的細節我不知道來 請監察院的代表假是怎麼請的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
225.033 |
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252.823 |
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報告委員根據公務人員請假規則的規則然後如果是說因為重大傷病非短期間所能治癒的部分的話他其實是在依規定可以在合給的病假試假及休假均請閉之後是總共加起來幾天兩年內可以就是請不得超過一年然後總共加起來的部分的話因為我們院長其實他公職資歷比較長所以他的那個休假的部分有30天所以總共加起來可以請幾天 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
254.167 |
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280.944 |
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如果是試駕並駕休假的部分的話一年原則上應該是可以先請65天所以他現在是一年加65天還要再等兩個月就對了是嗎因為去年他應該是12月請假嘛是吧去年12月底的時候因為這個新聞上都有去年12月底開始請假但是我們如果在114年的時候從1月開始的部分的話可以先請完他的試駕並駕休假之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
282.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
309.024 |
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才會再請延長病假對 所以延長病假可以請到什麼時候全體國人很關心嘛我們台灣是法治國家嘛不要因人設事嘛全體國人很關心啊當然啦你如果說從政務人員自我要求的角度來講擔任這麼重要的政務人員超過一年沒有辦法上班還是決定不辭職 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
310.768 |
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335.843 |
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其實也是讓大家看了覺得不曉得該怎麼形容沒有關係每一個人有每一個人的政治選擇因為現在沒有政務人員法嘛你如果按照2012年那一版的政務人員法的話這個就構成了必須要請辭的事由了嘛但我們現在沒有政務人員法就沒有辦法嘛每一個政務人員自己選擇自己去注意社會上面的觀感嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
337.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
346.01 |
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大家現在看不懂的是監察院反正是肥貓院也沒有什麼關係有沒有院長也沒有什麼差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
348.087 |
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370.198 |
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所以呢我們在規範這麼重要的問題竟然是回到了公務人員請假規則公務人員請假規則明明生病是病假但沒有關係我們從寬認定試假也可以其他假也可以全部假全部都累積起來沒有關係所以全部的假累積起來什麼時候會期滿現在沒有辦法回答沒有關係會後書面回覆可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
378.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
397.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個我們可以回覆說我們都是依規定會讓就是說就是都是依規定請假的部分啊所以說我們今年度基本上市併休請完明年也是會是市併休請完之後然後在兩年內不得延長一年的狀況之下然後請沒有啦依法不就一年嗎怎麼聽你現在講起來要請兩年喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
403.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
417.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個部分的話因為我們其實是都是依照請假規則的規定在做請假公務人員也都是這樣子沒有關係啊你們是不是有按照規則大家看在眼裡啊我們繼續往下看現在陳菊請假嘛黃士卓出任監察院秘書長誰挑選決定的誰決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
427.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
456.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個是我們院有經過那個知情總統同意對啊誰就是誰決定的是總統決定的還是現在代理院長決定的這個你沒辦法回答好啊監察院另外一位代表有辦法回答嗎直接由總統決定嗎所以是你們簽公文上去嗎你們完全沒有簽公文上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
459.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
474.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
不好意思你們兩個現在回答不太一致你們有簽公文給總統說要請黃士卓出任監察院秘書長嗎有嗎所以給總統的那個建請的那個之文任命黃士卓是誰蓋章的本院 代理院長嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
488.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
516.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
依照監察院組織法的規定秘書長由誰挑選決定依照監察院組織法的規定秘書長由誰挑選決定就特任人員的部分就是陳院長致命處理事務啊所以這個部分你們回去看一下法規嚴格啦我實在真的是大開眼界 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
517.734 |
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543.513 |
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自己對自己組織法裡面主管的法規可以不收成這個樣子沒有關係不為難你們你們都是專業優秀的事務官我為什麼會提這個問題出來找一個發表不實言論抹黑人家被判刑有罪確定的人我先不管他黨派色彩夠不夠找一個被判有罪確定的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
544.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
568.563 |
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然後要長監察院的秘書長要整治關真他先整治他自己的關真吧他先整治他自己的關真吧任用這麼重要的位置現在已經是沒有標準了啦也不用考慮社會觀感院長請假超過一年沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
570.543 |
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598.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
找一個被判刑有罪確定的人來當秘書長也沒有關係因為這個地方社會對他已經沒有期待這個地方社會對他已經沒有期待要養什麼人 塞什麼人 當政治疏紅到就是現在監察院存在的目的李靜怡 林玉榮 蘇利窮 王榮章違法濫用公務車 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
601.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
628.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
去年六月移送紀律委員會用最快的速度處理到九月的時候沒有處理那時候監察院來找我 拜託我支持他們的預算 給他們一點錢能夠做一些活動我那個時候 扛著政治壓力 我點頭了我說好好做 好好做你們的複密跟我說 九月份會處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
630.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
658.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
處理到現在10月的時候紀律委員會完成調查報告10月份會審議審議的結果為後續的處理審議完了沒有審議完了沒有報告委員現在已經送到院會審議現在在審議程序中還要審議多久報告委員院會審議這個是秘密的會議所以這個程序我們並不了解沒有關係啊所以就要攤開來給社會大眾看嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
661.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
689.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
讓全台灣人看一看嘛什麼叫做官官相護嘛什麼叫官官相護嘛回去轉告代理院長以及副秘書長我這個人可以被你騙一次但我絕對不會被騙第二次今年九月的時候在這邊協商你們的追加預算的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
691.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
718.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你們的副秘書長是怎麼跟我拍胸脯保證的9月一定會處理處理到現在12月啦處理到現在12月啦錢騙到了以後能拖就拖 能混就混上下交鄉賊 大家一起胡搞瞎搞這個國家還有什麼關鍵啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
720.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
744.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這國家還有什麼關鍾啊來 請考試院我上一次說齁我成立了國發基金調查委員會的時候我是很認真在做調查我還寫了大概是本院少有的國發基金調查委員會的調查報告書那份調查報告書我寫了非常的久 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
745.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
768.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
以前成立什麼調閱小組大概都虎頭蛇尾連一個調閱報告都沒有我花了很久的時間寫調查報告書其中有一段是這個國發基金自己的執行長執行秘書在掌理這麼重要的國發基金要投資哪一家公司這麼重要的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
769.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
792.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
結果自己退休了以後跑去他決定要投資的那家公司當董事這是什麼跟什麼啊這明確的違反了公務員服務法第16條的規定當我說明確違反公務員服務法第16條規定的時候啊國發基金 國發會很會趕快幫忙找黨建牌 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
793.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
819.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
法條的文藝如此的明確公務員與其離職後三年內不可以擔任與其離職前五年內職務直接相關的盈利事業董事國發基金的執行秘書參與審議決定要投資那家公司結果離職後馬上去那家公司當董事公務員服務法白紙黑字寫得這麼清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
820.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
842.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你不用用什麼目的解釋 體系解釋 歷史解釋不用用那麼複雜的法律解釋的方法我一解釋看就知道了當然是違反公務員服務法16條結果我們的國發基金膽子好大趕快幫忙脫罪脫罪的方法是什麼 找你們懸序部以前的一個韓式 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
845.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
867.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
說國發基金投資完全不是用公務員服務法旋轉門的條款我上一次質詢的時候我也跟你們解釋過你們過去的那個函式有多荒謬有多荒謬 按照你們那個函式你們那個考試院的函式現在荒謬成什麼 變成公務員服務法16條的後門條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
870.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
889.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
用一個絕對錯誤的函式來架空公務員服務法16條的規定我請你們回去承諾檢討那你們檢討完了也回來給我不過你們寫得很好你們是補充說明 是吧不是更正 是補充說明所以是更正還是補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
895.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
912.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
應該是更正喔所以在你們更正前那就沒有辦法啦就被他逃掉啦是這個態度嗎來來來 你們選區部的函發的是什麼再補充如說明你們告訴我的是補充嘛那現在看起來到底是補充還是更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
925.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
939.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我想我們部裡的態度就是我們本來有一個舊的韓式不夠完整 也謝謝委員的指教所以我們就把它再召開各機關來討論所以你認為你們過去所謂不完整的韓式到時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
940.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
955.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
有人去告發他違反公務員服務法16條你認不認為你們那個不完整的韓式會拿來被犯罪嫌疑人作為抗辯的室友所以我就按照考試院的韓式啊考試院的韓式說這樣做沒有問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
956.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
965.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我想跟委員報告 我想任何的訴訟最後都是法院會去做裁判那法院會不會幫新的一個...對啊 但問題是為什麼會出來這個東西為什麼會出現這個問題這個問題一開始就不應該出現嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
974.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1003.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
為什麼在追溯違反公務員服務法16條的道路上會出現了一個在規範上面本來根本就不應該存在的障礙事由不就是你們考試院創造出來的嗎我想跟委員發言因為那時候我雖然不在部聯不過我可以理解那時候因為對政府可能對投資這個部分還沒有很多的這一方面那時候是在採購跟跟營價為主所以我想當初的當初的背景所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1004.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1029.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以我們因為新的一個發展形勢變更 謝委員的指正新的發展形勢 你講的好像是2025年我們政府才開始投資一樣從舊的韓式 到現在考試院有停止運作過嗎全序部有停止運作過嗎沒有啊沒有啊你說要因應時代的需要對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1030.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1059.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
你們就你們所長的業務有因應時代的需要嗎有切合現實的需要嗎因為你們這個韓式幫這種可恥的行為創造了法規上的障礙這個就是我今天要講的當然是法院最後認定嘛那法官想說啊 人家就按照選區部的韓式啊國發基金也幫他脫罪啊怎麼會有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1063.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1087.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
結果選區部幹的不是好好的在貫徹公務員服務法16條應該要求的標準是在幫忙開後門讓人大開眼界大開眼界這個案子最後進入了司法程序以後會怎麼處理我們拭目以待看我今天在這邊預測的你們幫這種可恥的行為開了後門我講的對還不對 |