| IVOD_ID |
16674 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16674 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-35-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-14T08:31:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-14T11:30:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:58:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d03307740e70b09af07b0e10fad6422fc52bdb8234cc31cac7acc16a1f45f003f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國防部主管預算凍結案等54案。（詳如附件）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:43 - 11:30:00 |
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報告委員會初席委員9人已足法定人數好那我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀議事錄 |
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1739.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期外交及國防委員會第十二次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年五月八日星期四上午九十至十一時三十三分地點紅樓三零一會議室出席委員陳俊宇等十一人列席委員羅明才等十一人列席人員外交部政務次長陳明祺及所屬人員援助民主委員會副主任委員鍾欣華及所屬人員主席黃周及委員人報告事項因宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1740.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1767.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
二、邀請外交部部長、原住民主委員會主任委員報告運用總和外交理念結合南島語系國家以發揮價值外交願景之規劃與策略並被質詢外交部政務司長陳明祺、原住民主委員會副主任委員鍾新華報告委員陳俊宇等13人質詢均由外交部政務司長陳明祺、亞東太平洋師師長南夏里、亞西及非洲師師長、副師長陳永博 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1771.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1796.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
及援助民主委員會副主任委員鍾欣華等即席答覆決定於登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員林倩琦、吳麗華所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報三委員所提書面及口頭質詢為即答覆或要求提供資資訊請相關機關於二周年以書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會委員令指定期限者從其所定宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1800.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1824.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好 請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有無遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處好 那我們議事錄確定那我們現在介紹在場委員陳永康委員徐巧欣委員好 那我們介紹列席官員好 這個部長顧立紅先生副參謀總長執行官黃志偉上將 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1829.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1854.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
常務次長黃宥明中將全民防衛動員署署長李定忠中將總督察長市副總督察長周景榮先生參事石文榮中將政務辦公室主任孫立芳中將政治作戰局局長陳玉玲中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1857.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1884.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
軍備局局長林文祥中將主計局局長謝其賢中將軍醫局局長蔡建松中將戰略規劃司司長黃文綺中將資源規劃司司長藍靜婷女士法律事務司司長沈世維中將整合評估司司長苗慧芬女士國防採購司主任趙雅萍中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1886.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1901.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
政風市主任簡國興先生人事市主任陳榮宏先生人事參謀次長是次長林佩志中將情報參謀次長是次長謝日昇中將作戰及計畫參謀次長是次長連志偉中將後勤參謀次長是次長李鳳翔中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1915.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1930.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
通信電子資訊參謀次長是次長鄧恩林中將訓練參謀次長是次長郭俊德中將陸軍司令部參謀長陳建義中將海軍司令部參謀長邱俊榮中將空軍司令部參謀長李慶然中將後備指揮部陣戰主任胡瑞勳少將憲兵指揮部參謀長呂正芳少將 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1944.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1969.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長梁永坤少將資通電軍指揮部參謀長周文祥少將軍事情報局執行長鄧倫仁少將電訊發展事主任郭志國中將國防大學教育長李承中少將國家中山科學研究院院長李世強中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1971.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1996.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
行政院主計總署專門委員 邱碧竹女士請議事人員宣讀報告及討論事項報告事項二 處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議國防部主管預算提出書面報告後 使得動資等46案第一案 本部第一幕向下 法定編制人員待遇預算凍結200萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1998.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2009.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第二案 本部第一幕向下基本行政工作維持預算凍結100萬元案第三案 本部第一幕向下業務費預算凍結100萬元案第四案 本部第一幕向下對國內團體資捐助預算凍結10%案 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2013.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2033.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第五案本部第二幕向下整合評估中業務費預算凍結20萬元案第六案本部第二幕向下一般事務費預算凍結10%案第七案本部第二幕向下法律事務預算凍結100萬元案第八案入軍司令部第四幕向下軍事單位裝備零附件固製及保修預算凍結500萬元案決議第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2036.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2054.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
決議項次二十七第九案入軍司令部第四幕向下軍事單位裝備零附件購置及保修預算凍結五百萬元案第十案入軍司令部第四幕向下軍事單位裝備零附件購置及保修預算凍結五百萬元案第十一案入軍司令部第五幕向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2055.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2068.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
高效能板裝甲飛彈預算凍結1000萬元案第12案陸軍司令部第5幕向下一般武器及裝備資源裝備構設預算凍結200萬元案第13案陸軍司令部第5幕向下陸上機動部雷系統預算凍結200萬元案第14案陸軍司令部第5幕向下新型步槍預算凍結100萬元案第15案陸軍司令部第8幕第二節裝訓部坑子口訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2083.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2102.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
廠整建工程案預算凍結500萬元案第16案陸軍司令空軍司令部第4幕向下軍事單位裝備零附件購置及保修預算凍結1000萬元案第17案軍備局第13幕向下一般數費預算凍結200萬元案第18案參謀本部第1幕向下業務費預算凍結50萬元案第19案本部第2幕向下業務費預算凍結100萬元案第20案陸軍司令部第3幕向下業務費預算凍結150萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2112.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2138.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第21案 空軍司令部第三幕向下 業務費預算凍結300萬元案第22案 本部第二幕向下 教育訓練費預算凍結100萬元案第23案 本部第二幕向下 業務費預算凍結50萬元案第24案 陸軍司令部第四幕向下 其他業務租金預算凍結100萬元案第25案 陸軍司令部第四幕向下 房屋建築養護費預算凍結100萬元案第26案 陸軍司令部第五幕向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2140.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2163.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
國軍重要防護營區智慧型警監系統建制案第二階段預算凍結五百萬元案第二十七案陸軍司令部第五幕向下戰術型進程無人飛行載具二階段預算凍結五百萬元案第二十八案陸軍司令部第五幕向下國外旅費預算凍結五十萬元案第二十九案全民防衛動員署第一幕向下業務費預算凍結五十萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2164.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2170.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第30案 全民防衛動員署第三目向下業務費預算凍結100萬元案第31案 全民防衛動員署第三目向下動員整備預算凍結100萬元案第32案 國防大學第三目向下國外旅費預算凍結20萬元案第33案 國防大學第四目向下一般事務費預算凍結20萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2184.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2197.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第34案 參謀本部第3目向下業務費預算凍結100萬元案第35案 參謀本部第4目向下業務費預算凍結100萬元案第36案 陸軍司令部第4目向下水電費預算凍結100萬元案第37案 國防大學第4目向下雜項設備費預算凍結10%案第38案 陸軍司令部第13目向下一般數費預算凍結500萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2210.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2218.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第39案 海軍司令部第一幕向下一班事務費預算凍結55萬元案第40案 海軍司令部第五幕向下設備及投資預算凍結300萬元案第41案 海軍司令部第五幕向下錄用兼徵型無人機預算凍結300萬元案第42案 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2228.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2240.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
海軍司令部第3目向下業務費預算凍結100萬元案第43案機密預算第二項決議刮虎2預算凍結案第44案機密預算第二項決議刮虎10預算凍結案第45案機密預算第二項決議21案預算凍結案第46案機密預算第二項決議刮虎24預算凍結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2255.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2270.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
討論事項 處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議 國防部主管預算凍結等八案一 陸軍司令部一般裝備向下國軍重要防護營區智慧型艦艦系統建設案第二階段預算凍結20%專案報告案二 本部所屬第八目第二屆引進工程預算凍結五億元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2277.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2296.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
3.陸軍司令部第四幕向下軍事單位裝備零附件固製及保修預算凍結500萬元案4.陸軍司令部第四幕向下一班彈藥固製與維護之軍事裝備及設施預算凍結2億元案5.陸軍司令部第三幕向下訓練綜合作業中業務費預算凍結1000萬元案6.陸軍司令部第四幕向下軍事單位裝備零附件固製及保修之軍事裝備及設施預算凍結400萬元案7.憲兵指揮部 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2305.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2318.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第五目向下一般武器及戰備支援裝備購置中無人機反制系統預算凍結五百萬元案八軍備局第十一目向下軍品研發之次世代先進製造關鍵技術開發計畫預算凍結一千萬元案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2324.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2346.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好那關於這個報告事項二就是呢我們處理這個院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議那國防部主管的預算凍結案有提出書面報告使得凍之有46案那現在書面報告已經送交本位剛剛這一個報告事項念過了那請問各位委員對於這部分的預算結凍有無異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2349.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2364.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 那沒有異議的話 均同意動之提報院會好 那現在我們還在進入討論事項的那幾個案子那現在請國防部就主管這個預算解凍案包含有專案報告一案進行報告請國防部長 顧部長上台報告主席 各位委員先進感謝各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2377.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2397.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
先進長期關心國防事務運作並給予本部各項指導在此聲表敬意與感謝今日安排議程辦理預算解凍暨陸軍司令部新型步槍採購等五十四案新台幣十一億兩千一百八十四萬八千元本部軍已將書面報告呈送大院針對委員關切個案執行現況檢討與精進作為等項均依決議四項要求辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2402.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2425.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
各案解凍預算經由本部施政所必須請各位委員鼎力支持預算解凍,被使各項國防施政及建軍規劃順利推行接續由陸軍設定部參謀長陳建義中將針對國軍重要防護營區智慧型警監系統建置案第二階段實施專案報告,向各位委員做具體說明,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2434.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2461.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
主席各位委員先進以下警究智慧型警監案執行進度及現況提出報告一專案內容由陸軍統建納海空軍後備憲兵指揮部及國防大學需求偽中科院於民國一百零九至一百一十五年建置全軍兩百八十三處營區智慧型警監系統以強化營區整體安全防護效能二執行概況 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2462.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2480.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
一专案于民国110年开始建制营区智慧型警监系统因初期标案作业进度延宕新冠疫情影响招工以及关键零组件延迟进货等因素至当年及111年执行进度落后 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2481.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2498.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
二在民國一百一十二年起尊國防部指導以及中科院相互協調與配合下逐漸趕上攻境截至民國一百一十三年規劃建制的全軍有一百九十七處營區均已全數完工第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2499.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2517.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
民國114年規劃建置全軍有57處營區自民國113年起即要求中科院完成招標作業管制廠商提前進場施作現已完工30處有27處持續在施作中 攻進正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2519.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2543.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
請過次頁三管制作為第一項為了確保營區景見系統可依節點完成建置本均與中科院藉由現刊作為現刊作業等四項的積極管控作為要求該院管制廠商執行並專案能夠如期如值的完成以下就四項的經營作為實施報告在現刊作業部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2544.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2558.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
建置营区如果有执行的制碍或是变更设计由本军以及中科院共赴营区与主官实施研讨施作的规划以获得双方共识满足营区时需完善整体建置规划 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2559.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2576.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
二 在增加工班的部分我們依據營區面積的大小建置的範圍施作複雜程度以及每日的執行工進要求中科院管制廠商適切加派執行人力加速營區系統建置的進度第三 在招標作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2576.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2599.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
又於專案執行初期 曾因招標進入延宕 致壓縮了作業的期程那也從113年起 要求中科院提前辦理招標進場那依節點管制決標後 提前進場施作第四 在加強督管作為的部分管制中科院定期提交營區建置的節點管制表 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2599.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2619.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
並由國防部納專案會議來集合執行進度也藉不定期的履約督導、現刊以及單位查證等方式來驗證攻向的進行第二在專案建置主要設備是攝影機那因為長期暴露在室外易受天候的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2620.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2641.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
為了有效提升設備品質和加速修復的實現除了管制中科院針對合約商定期執行履約的督導跟製程的查驗之外並在設備交貨前需完成各項的檢測需要在達到防塵防水達到IP6的等級以及維持備用品周轉量達到1000G確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2644.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2657.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
裝備的妥善第三在防止錄製品的混入方面陸軍也編組了相關的省監人員配合廠商交貨時機赴中科院來執行拆機的查驗作業針對資訊儲存設備採全數拆驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2660.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2676.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
攝影機等其他器密設備按比例抽驗迄今已執行了56次的拆機查驗作業另外持續要求中科院確依國軍通知安全要求及採購作業規定不允許入區或入資的廠商以及其產品參與投標確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2679.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2705.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
國防整體安全結與面對中共近年利用潛伏特工人員針對國軍機敏處所刺探遂行收集情資的情勢國軍各營區以往雖設有警監系統然未具主動視警的功能執勤人員無法於第一時間掌握營區的整體動態本案智慧型警監系統於營區的重要處所佈建各類 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2705.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2706.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
可請委員支持並給予指教報告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2726.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2744.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好 那我們現在開始詢答今天本會委員4加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘那我們10點半那個發言登記節制如果有臨時提案請於10點半以前提出我們大概11點左右來處理那我們先來請陳俊宇委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2765.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2794.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好謝謝主席我們有請顧部長部長早是陳委員首先就我們精進貨幣叫招的相關規劃來請教部長那從解凍案的這個報告書當中我們來看有關這個叫招目前執行的成效約有43%的這個待招人數接受召集 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2796.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2824.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
反過來看就有57%的人在退伍之後沒有受過任何的訓練從今年開始會全面採取14天的教招依基幹人力補充的情形逐步來增加教招的緣額照實際的動員和訓練資源來看後備軍人接受教招提升到多少占比 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2824.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2837.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
是比較實際且理想的國防部有沒有設定一個這個基準的一個目標跟委員報告我們現在就這個第一個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2838.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2859.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
會逐步來擴增這個14天的一個教召的一個訓額因為我們認為14天的教召比較具有這個成效成效5至7天的這個教召呢不足以因應我們現在後備力量的這個提升這是第一點所以要把訓額也要從就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2860.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2881.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
才14天的方式來把它增加那我們現在14天的教召的這個內容呢也不斷的一個精進我們從一開始他進來的時候我們會幫他做問卷那他對於這一個他對於自己能夠作戰的這個信心度有多少到14天教召結束那一天來問的話整個比例大幅大幅的提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2882.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2896.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
所以我們那個14天的叫召訊額那我們現在到底14天的這個叫召我們的訊額要到多少這件事情我們會現在會根據我們所需要的這個真正的一個動員的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2898.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2918.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
數額我們會來做一個所謂的精密的一個認定之後來做一個比較精密的一個叫囂的一個把柱也就是說簡單講白話一點的話意思就是說我們現在各個部隊我們組織邊桩我們確實也在進行調整當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2922.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2947.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那這些組織變裝調整之後所需要相關的這些後備的這些能力這些能力需要什麼樣的能力來補充第一階段那甚至到第二階段那這些比如說可能涉及到高專的可能涉及到一般步兵的那可能涉及到一些他或者我們現在會陸續獲得一些新式的裝備那些新式裝備我們把它訓練之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2951.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2967.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
以後退伍那退伍之後呢我們還在回來讓他受訓這些部分都是我們現在正在努力的一個工作這個會不會動員力量的大幅的提升是現在一個非常緊迫的而且是一個很具有挑戰性的一個工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2968.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2990.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那在這個招訓的整個流程上,如果後備軍人離營之後在民間有新增專長那是不是應該在年度辦理教招的這個之前,我們先進行調查然後在相關的資料上再去做更新那也可以向其他部會調閱相關的資料,並規劃相應的職務分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2993.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3021.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那就這個後備軍人專長及時更新的這個機制我們去年國防部也曾經允諾會來改善那目前是不是已經有建置了我建置的部分是全動數稍微說委員好我是全動數署長有關於建置的部分我們目前在全動數我們有建置了一套後備動員管理系統一個資訊化的系統今年也有借接在 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3022.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3031.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
EMIC就是中央聯合應變中心裡面去借接然後我們會利用各部會跨部會的一個協調有關於後備軍人在民間所獲得的專長他會提供給我們介入我們這個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3037.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3054.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
然後他來叫招的時候我們也會來勾結他的專長那目前我們在這個機制上面的建立之後是不斷的在做更新那另外在叫招的時候我們當然會優先以他的君子專長為優先選中然後民間專長為輔來於補充所以說目前這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3060.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3072.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
有關於選員的部分以及我們私訊的部分就是列管8到12年四次的教召的公平性我們都盡量做到公平公正好 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3073.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3101.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好那另外就這個強化韌性的相關規劃我來就教部長行政院提出4100億的這個特別預算目前也在經濟委員會審查當中其中要強化國土安全韌性編列1500億內容包括強化台灣周邊的這個海域的安全監測另外還有提升資安防護以及建置各式的這種軍品物資還有興建巡防艦艇等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3101.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3116.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
來因應中共的日益頻繁的侵擾行為其中有關強化國土安全任性的1514由國防部及海委會來辦理部會之間各負責多少預算是否已經有定案我們現在負責的應該是1164億 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3120.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3138.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這個部分那主要跟委員報告就是說我們主要在兩大塊的部分一個是資通的韌性環境我們資通的韌性環境的部分呢包括了這個居民資通作業環境韌性跟設備效能的提升然後也這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3143.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3161.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
然後還有指管系統韌性跟資安防護的擴充然後還有軍民共同圖像系統建設能力還有一個作戰區的一個基礎設備的一個設施的提升那這些對我們整個這個作戰指管這個韌性的提升呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3163.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3178.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這個防衛作戰指管韌性的提升是有非常非常大的幫助那另外一個呢我們就是要這個就具有防護跟實用的庫儲跟保養的設施我們要來強化然後要來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3181.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3204.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
來強化我們的重要的軍品物質零附件的這個囤存的能量那因應這一個我們獲得這個很多新式的裝備我們也需要這個良善的訓練環境來提升訓練的成效那這個都是我們現在所要負責的這些國安部所要承擔的這個在兩年多之內我們要完成的這些項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3206.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3223.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我想請教部長,如果這個特別條例的審查,它會有兩種可能第一種可能就是照我們行政院版本通過,就有1500億的預算來強化我們國土安全的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3224.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3247.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那另外一個版本就是依照在野黨所提出的一個版本那可能就沒有通過就沒有一千五百億的部分那本次的這個特別條例有關強化任性的這個項目如果未能通過的話可能就要回歸到這個年度預算來因應對國防部在規劃上會不會有什麼樣的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3248.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3264.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
跟委員報告因為我們以前受制於這個作業維持會的一個關係所以我們現在作業會都每年都有一定的額度所以我們將一些急需要提升的這個剛剛講的這個資通的這個韌性然後還有這個剛剛講的這些所有彈藥這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3274.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3294.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
相關的一些零附件重要軍品物資的這些庫存跟保養的這些設施還有訓練的場地我們本來都要往後來遞研那因為有這樣子的一個特別預算的這個部分我們就可以做整建然後做這個改善然後來提升這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3296.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3303.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
另外在媒體報導為了要達到國防部的預算要佔GDP的3%的承諾國防部對於美國的軍購會有另外編列一個預算並且會在下會期送交委員會審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3317.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3338.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那國安部是否已經完成軍購案特別預算的一個規劃並且以提報給行政院那預算的額度大約會落在什麼樣的一個範圍這一點還沒有辦法跟委員做一個明白的一個數字上面的一個說明現在就 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3339.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3368.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
這個部分還是以這個首要還是以建構不對稱站立然後強化防衛韌性那另外當然也會含著這個提設後備站立跟後置灰色地帶映竹這個四個面向那現在很多部分呢我們要採取有軍購的有商購的也有自己的偽製案那這個部分我們是一個比較做一個長年度的一個整個的一個特別預算的一個規模那這些部分都整個扣緊 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3369.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3387.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們未來所需要的關鍵的戰力所以這個部分還希望給我們一點時間那我們要跟有盟國家來洽談謝謝部長強化國土的防衛能力是現在因應中共灰色侵擾的一個重之重的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3389.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3402.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我請國防部持續能夠向各黨的委員爭取支持讓預算能夠順利的通過以維持我們國家的一個長治久安謝謝,謝謝部長是,謝謝委員好,謝謝陳俊宇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3420.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3425.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好 接著我們請沈博洋委員質詢謝謝主席 有請顧部長 謝謝好 有請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3433.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3463.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
是 政委好好 那部長因為今天這個有一些關於這些結鬥的案件那我認為說這個跟我們之後的一個議題有比較相關性的就是也是最近這個新聞就是說關於這一個這個瑞淵二型有這個通訊模組裡面有這個中國製的晶片那我先講就我所知啦就我所知就是說在早期的時候呢這個近鋒一型這個攻擊無人機的通訊模組有用中國的原件嘛那當時在詢問的過程當中說是一個比較被動的一個原件 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3463.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3486.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那從這個之後呢開始有做一些清查那清查之後呢又發現有這個瑞恩二型無人機的這個通信模組那預防我待會再說就是說呢現在對這兩件事情我們的應酬是什麼然後以及呢是否可以說明一下就是為什麼這樣的一個事情等於是一再發生我先請中院稍微做一個說明跟委員報告這兩個都是我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3488.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3514.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
驗收階段的時候我們主動發現然後就按照當時的契約條款要求廠商換貨好那這種事情就是說呢當然我們都知道就是說廠商他有可能會有這些失誤啦那但是我們現在這個相關的規範到底是長什麼樣子就是說除了契約本身之外我們對於廠商是什麼時候會叫他說那你要做更換那什麼時候呢可能會有相對應的比如說解約啊等等之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3515.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3531.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
跟委員報告,我先講採購室的這個部分,因為在我這個8月30號的時候,我跟採購室他們做了很多的討論,那我們現在就是有一個另班這個國軍採購禁用大陸地區香港澳門產品的年級禮業, |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3533.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3558.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
驗收的一個作業指導,那這個要求要全軍就要來遵循,那杜絕紅色供應鏈來滲入我們的主要的武器跟裝備那依照這個的部分呢,我們就會有一些就是說在驗收的時候,從開始的階段,那包括茶廠然後包括這個文件,然後包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3560.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3578.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
進口保管等文件然後產地證明等等然後另外在驗收的時候要如何來進行相關的這個查驗那有一些要進行一些破壞性的檢驗那有一些就要進行全面性的檢驗等等的這些相關的一些規定來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3580.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3605.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
基本上來講,我們以無人機這個來講,我們就採全機飛鴻的這樣一個來講我們所以包括產地品牌、內部元件、零組件,我們都要求不可以用大陸製品那個案的企業也會定名,包括剛剛講的茶廠、交貨驗所要提供這些相關的證明文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3605.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3623.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
然後我們剛剛也講了,我們會進行檢驗,那檢驗的方式包括破壞性的檢驗等等,這些都有一些綠定那剛剛總會員也提到了,因為這兩型都是在驗收的時候,這個都是一個原型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3626.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3652.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
沒有量產的階段所以在原型的時候他再交貨我們就要進行檢驗那以後量產的時候剛剛講的一系列的程序都要來加以嚴格的管控部長我追問一下就是說呢剛剛有點像是就是說我們這個主動有辦法查的這個機制那也的確有這個機制存在所以這個被發現嘛那我現在想問就是標準因為剛剛比較快速的講過去就是說現在我們對非紅這件事情非常的強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3653.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3674.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那它有可能就是說我們對於哪一些是要非紅就是這一個的標準是不是一致因為如果說這個標準是清楚一致的話在第一線的人員他們沒有決定的空間這個就是不行這個就是可以這是第一個嘛然後第二個就是說它上下游的這些廠商哪一些廠商它必須是不能夠是中資比如說像這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3675.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3687.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
就是說這個相對應的規範我大概在一兩個月前我們有問採購公司就是說是不是我們現在這一個規範是能夠比較清楚明白的讓大家知道對我們有一個分類這個詳細的分類要不要請採購公司說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3688.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3712.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
委員好我是採購室主任跟委員簡單報告我們針對錄製品的部分我們並不是所有東西全部都是進錄製品我們有區分分五類比如第一類是進原料產品和廠牌第二類是進到這個原件剛剛講這個無人機它就屬於我們第二類也就是我們會查到它的原件不能夠有錄製品我們分五類 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3713.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3730.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
是因為我現在在想的事情就是說因為畢竟我們現在各式各樣的廠商也非常的多那跟國防部合作越來越多因為我們現在案子也變多了那這個狀況之下呢這個民間在要做標案或者等等之類的時候他對於這個標準一定是需要非常的一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3730.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3759.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那如果說這個標準過度嚴格比如說你什麼東西都完全都是不能夠中國製的時候那其實說真的廠商也很難做嘛所以到底哪些可以哪些不行像這個案子裡面就有提到說這個就是下面這個新聞在2023年的新聞就是說這個有中國製製品那當時的中科院是說這個是屬於被動的原件那我們當然了解被動原件的問題但是一般人就是我們要怎麼去溝通就是讓國民知道就是說到底是哪一些原件可以哪一些原件不行這個標準其實非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3761.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3780.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
剛剛採購室主任有講了,我們分成五類,我舉個例子,桌子絕對不需要說廢錄製,那有一些我想大家比較清楚的是具有傳輸功能的,那我們當然就確定一定是不能夠用錄製品,所以剛剛講的, |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3782.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3810.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
五類的這個標準的部分呢它有蠻詳細的一個綠定那因為我們現在這個採購的這個人員有各層級所以我們將這個綠定清楚以後那它要適用到哪一類這個部分要把它弄清楚然後屬於哪一類你就按照那一類來進行控管大概意思就是如此就是說比如說無人機本身這個當然是比較敏感那它儲存的這個箱子可能等等之類的或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3810.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3834.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
旁邊的廚師等等之類的這可能就是有不一樣的規範對那現在無人機是全部無人機這個整體本身好那接下來就是說這個就是這個飛鴻工業的這個規範這個我剛剛有問過那因為這個教召的管道跟這個後備的站立剛剛其實前面據聞有問過還有強化國土安全韌性那因為今天還有解凍案所以後面這兩個我可能就不多問了等我們下次再繼續進行謝謝主席 謝謝部長好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3840.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3863.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
好 謝謝沈博洋委員部長先請委員接下來請許巧欣許巧欣委員上台質詢謝謝主席 我們有請顧立雄部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3871.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3893.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
是 薛恩好您早安請教部長在台北市松山區有一塊光復北路跟民權東路四段交叉口的松南營區它是空軍慈恩的26村目前它是一塊閒置用地從圖上可以看到我想要問一下國防部接下來對這一塊地的規劃是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3897.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3922.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這個是屬於列入我們活化的部分我請金貝局長說沒問題來金貝局跟委員說明松蘭雲區大概土地是3.3公頃目前我們是內陸我們的活化的一個清澈我們一定在年底之前會交給國產署來做活化做活化那你們有沒有去了解所謂活化它的內容方向是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3922.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3942.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
國化以目前我們大塊的土地我們的依照政策的指導都不直接賣掉都是用地上選的設計我們最高會設定70年的地上選的一個標案那請問有其他單位來找過國防部來洽詢使用過或者是有私人相關的單位來徵詢過嗎目前沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3944.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3961.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
目前沒有所以這個地方有可能會未來移交給台北市政府那去興建聯一的心願區嗎我的了解我們是跟國產署來進行下達你給國產署之後那國防部也要知道國產署後續的規劃是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3964.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3979.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
國安組後續的規劃他會將相關的收益都會給我們然後放入銀改基金對對對我知道但是我的意思是說國防部在這個地方呢那你們有沒有相關的了解因為如果假設是說建聯義心願區或者是說呢那這個輝達執行長黃仁勳他預計要抵台那他有傳聞說他們會去選企業總部像這種大型的這個可能的興建案那 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3992.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4011.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
他不光是說郭參署這邊他下去決定我們也應該要提前知道說他有什麼樣的一個可能未來的發展可能性而不只是活化所以我的意思是我們有沒有整個大型的規劃向郭參署那邊去了解還是目前是沒有的一個狀態我稍微解釋兩點第一點就是我們活化的意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4012.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4028.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我們會盤整整個所有我們國防部現在所有相關的一些基地那我們也要求就是說如果有相關未來有用途的我們這個就不能夠釋出然後我們也已經規劃了一些相關我們不同意釋出的這些你做了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4032.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4057.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
一個整理一個規範說明說哪些是不能同意釋出的那這一塊是屬於同意釋出的所以活化的話就是屬於同意釋出那我們釋出的程序第二點就是說跟委員報告我們釋出就是跟國產署這個我知道這個我都知道然後他怎麼運用這個就是由行政院他們來決定決定以後我們能夠拿到的就是相關的收益要歸給 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4058.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4087 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
但是因為它如果是大型的比如說它新建聯醫像這樣的醫療院區我想國防部還是有必要去向他們了解一下因為這樣的話這個對整個台北市或者是說對國防部的土地其實都大家應該要多去了解另外我想要詢問的是有關於抗彈板新一代抗彈板是PE板跟陶瓷片組成我們全軍16億的陶瓷片標案進度到哪邊了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4089.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4116.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
跟委員報告我們陶瓷片我們國內的一個製產的佔60%國外的由韓國進口的佔40%目前第一批交貨各5000片目前都在依照委員的指導在大湖濱做原料的設計目前兩家都合格目前正在製作抗氮板的過程都在做量產的作業所以1月18號絕標的部分是哪一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4117.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4131.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
1月8號決標的就是國內跟國外的國內跟國外的嘛有國內生產的這樣百分之九十那因為呢之前大家不分黨派都對於這個抗彈板那它的各裝防護力是比較有疑慮的所以呢我們希望這個軍愛民民進軍都希望能夠抗彈板 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4135.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4163.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
如果今天真的上戰場的話他在之前是有檢驗合格的而且是這個第三方的檢驗專業的檢驗那如果說上戰場的話也才能夠保護我們國軍的性命那我想要請問一下目前我們呢有沒有這個經過TAF的認證單位跟委員說明委員上次的指導我們在2月8號都已經經過TAF的認證整個大湖濱的部分已經完成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4163.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4166.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
你們是在哪邊做認證的在大福濱宜蘭大福濱的市場請問軍備局的規格檢測中心這個宜蘭大福濱的市場是在今年的幾月幾號取得的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4181.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4198.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
是在幾號2月8號2月8號取得的嘛那陶瓷片絕標之前的樣品測試的單位是在執行單位是在哪裡原本在205現在1到5圓的直倒了所有的偶後的量產的每一批的交貨都在大湖濱 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4199.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4203.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
好所以呢 絕標前的樣品執行檢測單位在205廠那是後續每批交貨都在大福兵所以只有只有這個絕標前的樣品是在205廠但是到時候拿去使用的都要在這個宜蘭大福兵的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4220.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4239.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
所以1月8號決標的這整批都會在2月8號取得的這個宜蘭大福賓的市場去做TAF的檢測是嗎是 沒錯好那最後我想要問的是有關於EWE的民間專長的應用那因為時間不夠的關係我就簡單跟這個院長說明我的想法就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4240.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4250.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那就是目前一年期的EOE的藝男人才他可能在服役期間他有具備特殊專長或證照的其實我們的所學證照參加專業領選的部分有13類跟139項我不細講時間的關係裡面包含是有醫情項目有醫學系護理系專長的背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4262.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4281.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
會被派到軍醫局軍醫院跟國防醫學院的衛訓中心那我們了解到很多人都是反應說他們到這個相關的單位之後都是只能做助手或者是說被現場當人手那因為一年期那他們就很像是學打雜匠這樣的一個性質 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4282.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4300.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
但是我們先前大家也都有談到就是說我們在人力上面或者是說我們在講說國防的韌性上面那這些一年級的151如果說他能夠學習到更多如果說能夠給他更多的一些任務的話那對於包含是急救、戰傷救護的推展 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4300.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4315.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那我們的軍醫體系都對所有的作戰負傷有特別的相關的課程然後讓有醫情專業的背景一南進到軍中我覺得呢會是一個對全民國防任性都有幫助的一個方案那這個部分就請院長多做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4316.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4333.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
跟委員報告簡單,第一點就是說,因為現在來服役務役的都還是18歲的,還沒有這個具有地令啊服役務役是18歲以上現在,現在,因為我們去年才開始嘛,所以現在有時候之後啊,對,有時候要講的就是之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4337.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4349.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
因為現在來扶義務役的都是高中畢業的因為如果你還要扶大學的話因為我們從去年才開始是啊是啊所以還要再幾年之後可能會更具幾年之後他就會有啦有一些專長這是第一點第二點以後這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4353.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4373.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
相關的這些醫護我們會根據他的相關專長會選材然後同時我們在所有的其實相關的各部隊我們現在也要求是說在各工作單位裡面也都要有相關的這些人員才能夠自助自救互救這些我想這些都我們在進行規劃當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4374.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4394.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
好 那麻煩就是我們希望說未來在這個選裁取裁的部分就算它是一年期的義務役那也希望能夠分發到各單位的時候有更實際的學習跟協助那這對於未來如果有國防安全韌性的時候能夠更加排上流場各項的專業 高專的部門可以培養好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4401.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4415.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
接下來有請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席 有請顧部長有請顧部長 謝謝羅委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4426.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4445.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
部長在上個月的時候根據日經新聞的報導因為中國現在的造船能力是遠遠的超過美國所以美國海軍部長就要求日本對美造船業提供協助目前日本是全球第三大的造船國 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4447.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4450.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
對川普政府的關稅談判當中所以日本準備要與造船牌來準備跟美國來做關稅談判也就是說他可能會以技術的支援或是協助造新船的籌碼作為談判的條件然後在安保合作方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4470.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4473.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
日本也正在推行維修美軍船艦的措施也就是說如果部署在亞洲周邊的艦艇能夠減少返回美國進行維修的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4485.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4491.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我想請問部長以台灣來講的話本席為什麼要這麼說以台灣來講的話我們在軍用品軍產品這部分我們有沒有類似日本這樣子的談判籌碼請問部長我只能說我們迄今為止我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4511.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4527.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
成修的標的還是我們本部所屬的這些武器裝備項目還沒有這個國外軍機這個軍艦的這個維修的一個品項軍艦的部分我們是目前當然是還沒有喔那可是呢像 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4528.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4552.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我要提的就是因為在後面我有看到一份報導就是說現在連維修的這個部分都會作為這個他們這次關稅談判的一個條件那我有看過一些資料就是說像台灣呢台灣它是位處第一島鏈像過去韓戰也好越戰的時候我們都是美國重要的維修的中繼站那像這個漢翔公司在2022年的時候呢它也是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4556.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4580.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
在台中成立了F16戰機的後勤維修中心這也是F16製造廠商洛克希德馬丁公司在亞洲唯一授權設立的後勤維修中心而且維修中心現在已經在研發生產部分戰機的這個零組件所以本席在想說那當然這個部分也可以省下這個戰機送回美國維修的這個成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4581.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4593.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我想請問一下像這個部分會成為有可能成為我們跟美軍談判的這個關稅的這個籌碼之一嗎有可能嗎我是看到日本的例子啦我想說正在進行關稅談判這部分會是嗎有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4596.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4613.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我想應該是這樣講,就是說我們假設軍購到美系的裝備,我們都希望有一定的自主維修的量能那F16呢,因為我們有現在現有兩棟就有141架,那我們還要再進來66架的拐棟的這個F16 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4618.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4634.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那所以我想我們要建立一定的自主維修的能量,這是我們所期待的那當然船艦的這個部分呢不是船艦,這個是屬於這個這個航空,我們是屬於航空的部分嘛,對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4635.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4649.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
軍艦的部分是日本的部分嗎?對,軍艦現在就美方來看的話,它現在是找日本跟韓國來進行軍艦的部分是,我是想航空的部分,航空維修的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4650.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4669.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
航空的維修的部分我們現在就如您現在所提我們現在應該是說我們不只是這個F16啦那要比較逐步來建立更高的自主維修的一個能量我們現在目前只能做到自主維修的部分嗎部長你知道嗎我們台灣的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4672.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4693.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我們在軍事維修的基地在亞洲其實是數一數二的曾經有專家透露說台灣是亞洲航空界維修如果說是排第二的話沒有人敢說是第一那這個部分你怎麼評論呢?本身現在是針對航空的部分我們有沒有可以有一些談判的籌碼之類的? |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4696.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4711.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
美國韓國日本有軍艦那我們航空的部分呢就我的理解一直到現在為止美國應該沒有將他的戰機所有這些最關鍵的比如說發動機 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4713.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4741.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
或者是這些射控雷達等等交給任何一個國家來所以部分的話我們沒有著理點就對了就我的了解這個部分他還沒有釋出給任何一個國家就算一些零組件的話其實對他來講的話航空的部分他也覺得還是他一些最關鍵的剛剛講的比如說發動機裡面的這些相關模組化的一個組件或者是這些雷達 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4742.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4764.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這些組件他這個部分是列為他的應該是沒有交我的了解應該沒有交給世界上任何一個國家來進行OK那再來的話就是我們要提到就是剛剛結束的就是美國跟菲律賓所舉辦的這個兼並兼的這個演習那我們可以發現說這一兩年呢參加的夥伴國是越來越多那 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4766.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4791.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這兩年我們也發現說其實他演習的範圍也都已經有在擴大那這一次我們還發現說他的演習地點甚至包含了臨近台灣的禮宋島的這個北部那這也就是顯示了台海安全的這個重要性那過去呢我曾經有看過一篇報導就是說有個媒體就有透露說我們曾經很低調的參與了美國跟泰國的金眼鏡蛇演習那我們有沒有機會就是說來爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4792.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4798.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
參與這個兼併間演習的這個或者是我們以這個觀察員的身份來參加這個兼併間的演習我們有機會嗎請問這個部分委員我覺得我沒有辦法在這裡跟委員做這個無法公開說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4810.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4836.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
委員如果想要了解我們私下再跟委員做事OK 了解這個沒有辦法在這裡公開說明那當然我們希望說國防部呢可以強化區域之間的這個合作我們跟鄰國可以展開一些對話那我們知道說南海其實是美中很禁足的一個關鍵所以我們希望說國防部再強化南方的空防跟治海這個能力方面我們可以逐步來做加強OK 好 以上謝謝是 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4840.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4856.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
好 謝謝同盟林委員接下來有請林楚英委員上台質詢謝謝主席 主席有請顧部長有請部長 謝謝林委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4865.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4882.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
部長早安部長我們今天當然主要是預算解凍啦那麼面對其實中國的威脅本席是認為國防預算是完全不可以有任何的這個差池那麼像現在呢因為在野黨的堅持所以我們的國防預算是要執行了30%之後才能做解凍但是我們知道這個不論是我們的國軍弟兄他們的這個所謂戰備需要的物資包括你說像中 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4894.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4903.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
國的軍艦或者是空軍的這個所謂共機啊一直在繞台那個弟兄的這個飛機升上去之後不能說這個有料 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4905.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4930.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
完全30了然後才來申請而且要經過院會飛機是要讓他掉下來嘛所以本席當然是認為可以解凍的要趕快來解凍不過我想我會提到這個來當開場白是因為我們知道今天在自由時報當中有刊登出來了就是賴清德賴總統在接受日本媒體訪問的時候有特別提到有關於現在兩岸局勢的部分那麼他特別提到的是說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4931.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4945.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
兩岸會有所謂的擦槍走火的狀況也是因為中共透過油鹽轉戰為什麼我剛剛的開場白會特別的提到就是現在國防部的很多的預算包括我們這個業務費是要執行30%之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4949.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4965.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
才能提到院會來解凍那麼面對連總統都特別在對國際媒體的時候都講到那就是中國不斷的在台灣的四周包括東海南海做軍演那麼可怕的是由演轉戰的時候那麼我們到底該怎麼辦這個訊息的釋出我相信那麼這個也是問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4971.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4980.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
越來越嚴重了那麼部長怎麼來看這個連總統都對外提到中國的軍演在台灣四周所引發的灰色地帶作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4982.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5007.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我想這分兩點第一點就是說灰色地帶的一個襲擾是一種軍事的一個恫嚇加上認知戰那我們對於這樣子的一個灰色地帶的一個應處我們要從這兩個面向一方面我們對於這樣的軍事恫嚇我們要相關的有一些因應的作為但是我們不能夠來大量的消耗我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5009.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5024.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這些戰力所以要有一些如何的應處這是我們現在要面臨的一個課題第二個當然就是說認知戰我們對於這樣子的一個灰色地帶洗澡 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5025.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5037.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
連結到他們相關從事認知戰我們要從事相關的反認知戰的一個一個反制的作為這樣子好所以本席其實本來要問的是另外一個問題但是因為時間有限我要強調的就是中國加劇對台灣的這個整體的所謂侵擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5043.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5064.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那麼中共以我這個從天下雜誌所揭露的訊息當中就是包括我們2024年到2025年不斷的從供機供件再到氣球的所謂氣球徵貨的這個數目其實都是在增加當中啦當然這個氣球徵貨的數目是降低但是從供機供件的次數是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5065.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5085.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
但是如果說他們不斷地是用這個騷擾跟侵擾的方式但是如果面臨我們的國防預算是被凍結的狀態的時候他就等在我們在凍結來不及解凍然後來發動整體的侵擾然後在演習當中由嚴轉戰的過程當中那麼我們是不是已經做好了必要的因應的準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5087.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5115.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
所以我這邊特別強調因為我們業務費的部分被凍結了百分之三十那因為如果說我們要按照這個條件是說我們要整體預算執行到百分之三十的話會落到這個六月多以後立法院修會的一個時間因為我不清楚現在立法院要不要延長然後延長到什麼時候所以我們很希望能夠在五月底以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5117.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5128.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個就能夠處理掉我們這個整個業務會的30%的凍結不然的話對我們的影響會相當的大所以因為如果再拖下去那我們滿了30%但因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5129.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5142.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
對啊因為滿30之後這是表示說30之後才能送進來嘛然後送進委員會再送院會嘛這就是一個非常荒謬的狀況就是我剛剛開場特別問到的所以說到時候整個國軍是要整個停擺嗎大家不要粗糙不要出勤然後大家可能連上洗手間都不准去因為沒有業務費的話是不是連水電都不行那更不要講這些有關於海 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5159.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5171.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
陸空的抵禦跟防禦那麼如果說現在這個規定在野黨就是已經這樣規定了有沒有特別去溝通跟去尤其是跟在野黨的委員來做讓他們理解我們都有在做溝通那你們溝通了之後的結果是什麼在野黨的委員還是不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5182.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5189.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
國民黨的在黨委員不同意嗎還是說這個期程定在那裡了就沒有辦法改所以也沒有辦法送 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5191.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5219.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我現在程序上我的了解是這樣就是說這些要到院會裡面宣讀完之後然後才送程序委員會互委那所以我希望這個流程不要有任何的阻擋然後能夠順利的進入了程序委員會互委之後呢那希望這個委員會能夠安排因為我現在的了解是說他本來是說要在院會做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5219.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5245.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
是那現在應該按照文化部的例子的話應該是可以交付委員會那如果說我們國防部的這個這一部分的解凍也可以按照這個程序就是說院會宣讀完之後然後就同意授權由委員會來進行這個報告之後來進行解凍我想這樣子會對我們的國防預算的這個執行會有很大的幫忙好 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5246.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5258.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
所以本席只是提醒啦在民進黨這裡我們當然是完全希望能夠國防的預算不要中間有所謂的空白期免得有空白期灰色地帶的侵擾就會直接由嚴轉戰成為直接的台灣的整個全面被中國有機會趁虛而入那至於是不是能夠走文化部的模式我就請國防部這裡再跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5272.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5294.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
至少我們國防委員會的在野黨的委員能夠讓他們來理解我相信他們應該站在這個國家本事議題沒有再分所謂這個在野黨或執政黨的部分我相信他們應該會有方向應該是善意的吧所以我們會跟朝鮮的委員都每一位都來進行好如果沒有的話我覺得事實是可以讓民眾知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5295.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5321.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
因為國防不可以,國家這個,國這個字不能有動,如果有動,難免會遭到我希望得到草野委員的一致的支持好,加油,謝謝好,謝謝主委委員那待會等到那個林益君委員質詢完畢的時候,我們休息十分鐘那接下來有請陳冠廷委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5346.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5372.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
你好 我們請部長有請顧部長 謝謝陳委員好部長好 部長有沒有掌握最新的國際時事在巴基斯坦跟印度的衝突中在他的空戰中有八方八國他有提到說大概有五架被擊落 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5373.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5394.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
但是印度方面沒有核實那法國方面沒有核實那只有第三方的這些媒體包含路透社大概是談到說一到三架那其中可能包含一下這個法國的這個陣風或者是飆風戰機那這個裡面的意義我想對我們非常重要就是說第一個我們要接近他的戰術是不是因為中方 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5395.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5412.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
有跟這個巴基斯坦有在戰術上面事前演練事後印證那是有效的或者是說是他的哪一個武器系統能夠有效的去應對這來自西方國家也就是我們非常重要的這些裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5413.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5437.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這些是我們不需要知道的目前就國防部的掌握到底有沒有印度的戰機被擊落包含我剛剛提到的標峰戰機是不是有被擊落就目前得到的情報我想我們對於印巴的衝突相關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5440.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5450.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
有涉及到的這些空戰的經驗影響到我們未來台海的軍事態勢,我們都持續來關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5455.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5483.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
OK 來關注那等於說剛才的問題沒有辦法去證實或者是說從公開資訊大概你覺得路透社講的會比較接近事實還是由巴基斯坦方講的會比較接近事實我之所以講這件事情的原因是因為巴基斯坦是透過這一次的空戰不斷地進行全面性的宣傳這是Propaganda的一部分但是同時我們要區分什麼是Propaganda跟什麼是事實如果我不知道說五價就五價 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5484.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5513.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那不然就是說就相信印度方的或是全面都沒有沒事我們還是能夠有效的應對這都不對我們不需要那我知道最近這幾天有很多節目用幾乎是在歌頌中共的這一些軍備的方式來去貶低對自己的信心這是不對的所以說我們同時也要關注他們的宣傳戰那同時你要知道說如果他們是用有效的方式極弱中制的這些武器系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5514.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5529.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那我們就要從中學習啊他們現在講的每一個宣傳同時也可能把他們的戰術給揭露啊這部分部長可不可以簡單的回應一下到底有沒有類似這樣的情況我們現在目前掌握到的是什麼有沒有跟法國方面來掌握有沒有跟印度方面來掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5529.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5554.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
有沒有做這些動作我想跟委員報告我想我們對於中共所有的這個新式武器的裝備我們都持續掌握而且我們從台海的這些情勢他們相關的這些進行操演或者進行訓練我們都從這個地方會得到我們對敵可能行動在台海這個部分我們要如何應處這個我們都是來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5554.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5570.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那空戰的這個部分呢我想也是如此也就是說他要如何透過不同的一個相關的指管作為然後來進行有效的一些打擊這些部分也是在我們的持續的密駐當中那我們也會相關的有一些戰術的因應作為那因為詳細的狀況我覺得我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5575.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5593.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
不適合在這個地方做我們其實是我只是說他們都有跟我做一些從文的報告但是我不認為我適合在這個地方做一個公開的一個說明好沒關係我只是要讓國防部有確切知道說到底發生了什麼事情因為我知道這個訊息都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5594.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5619.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
有時候是彼此矛盾的在法國的法方跟我們講的我們在法國法國那邊辦事處的跟我們在國安局的那我們收集的資料可能沒有百分之百全部一致吻合所以必須要核實那到時候才知道說哪一方得到的情報是最真實的我只能夠說我們跟相關的這些國家都會有這些有關的請示的一個交換但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5619.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5639.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我想確切的情況可能不適宜在這裡做過的說明我沒有要你跟我講確確的情況我只是把這個方針講出來我希望說注意宣傳站這是第一個那就是同時注意宣傳站的部分的原因就是說不可以說就是讓他們一直講但是我們沒有用事實來去做區分什麼是事實什麼是宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5640.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5658.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那什麼是對我們自己國家的自信這三個是不同的東西那我還是希望說有自信的面對中國的武器系統的提升不把它當成是垃圾我知道現在很多人就是把他們這個西方那個中國是紙套戶或者是中國人會說西方是紙套戶都不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5659.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5667.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
他們的實力是怎麼樣我們必須要知道最後謝謝趙偉再給我一分鐘非常感謝關於DIO我們講了蠻久了國防創新小組已經有一個重要的宗旨是在講說徵求民間科技解決方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5683.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5701.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
Hacking for Defense這個部分創新模式就是用國防產業創新模式的這個部分有沒有想過說是不是有沒有經費配置趕快就Hacking for Defense Taiwan規範一個試辦的經費為什麼要這樣講我們是希望現在包含無人機的這些需求那是我們希望說平時可以創業暫時可以擴張 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5704.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5728.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
就是衝突的時候可以擴張那我們就不能夠只來自幾個商員三個 四個重要的公司我們要包含小型公司包含BBC有報導就是台灣的這些小型的這些無人機的公司大概是有20到100個他們其實基本上沒有機會來進入我們的國防體系所以在這邊是不是可以呼籲部長能夠盡快的把這個東西來導入至少跟我們一個國立大學 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5730.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5750.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
跟委員報告我們是有的有這個經費嗎有這個有的而且他們相關這些學校也確實有很具體的準備因為我們等一下已經開辦了所以我們可能今年就可以開始像有一些這個他們利用這個AI的一些對以任務為導向所以部長我們今年大概就可以開始了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5751.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5779.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那很棒還有無人街競賽等等這個確實是有的今年吧今年就可以開始或者是明年就是反正近期就可以開始我們事實上已經有獲得一個具體的成果了只是說我想不是啊DIO不是我們才剛創立我是說由DIO主導的有DIO主導的當然我們我們本來就是一直有在進行這些相關的搜尋然後也現在已經做了公開徵集好 謝謝未來也會就委員的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5780.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5780.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
接下來有請王定宇委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5811.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5834.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
好 謝謝主席 麻煩部長所以我安慰部長早我還是想跟你提一下這個葛明德事件那我曉得你們已經簽陳儲是國防大學這個理工學院的院長跟相關的參謀 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5836.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5864.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
但這個事情這樣處理是不是到適當的層級我非常有疑議這事情的源頭是來自於國防大學我們跟他們簽了一個合作案讓這個老師去研究研究出來的專利最後竟然是歸葛明德所有他成立了一家公司公司的股東大會在國防大學裡面開公司找的股東有中國方面我們不允許的資本在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5866.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5884.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
當時邱國正當部長站在我現在的對立那邊說這個人該槍斃後來拖了半年遲遲不處理一直到媒體再揭露才把他從位置上停聘停聘半年而已後來當然是解聘了 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5885.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5904.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
然後最近的風波是他在三四月份才被檢調搜索就差一點點五月一號人力生效他竟然從原來國防先進科技計畫的申請人也就剛才講的那個事件被該槍斃的事件竟然又被聘為那個計畫的審查審議組的審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5908.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5935.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
從有瑕疵的裁判直接變成有瑕疵的球員轉個身份變成有瑕疵的裁判那這事情我當然有跟貴部相關的夜館溝通過那第一個問題是當時邱國正被質詢的時候國防大學教務長在這裡吧在嘛 你人在現場嘛那為什麼在聘這個審查委員的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5937.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5964.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
他的名字還可以浮出來你們現在解釋都推給基層因為參謀新來的不知道院長不查所以院長記兩個過院長該被處分我沒有意見校長沒事啊校長怎麼幹的啊有事都下面人趕這麼大的事情當時的部長震怒回去該不要列管沒有列管然後這人輕輕放下靠山很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5967.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5991.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
然後這次的處分還是只到院的層級學校的層級管理的層級通通沒有責任可以這樣子嗎部長我不知道你們懲處的邏輯是什麼就是說光管理一個學校這個學校的老師可以申請就專利我們花的錢最後專利居然歸那個老師的還讓他去開公司公司的股東坦白講他的股東現在是不是還在學校裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5994.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6001.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
如果背後沒給他靠可以敢這樣子啊在學校開股東會找中國人來當股東所以我第一個要請教部長這個事件的層屬層級只到院妥適嗎它不是單一事件它是從去年連續發生到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6015.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6040.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我的理解或者等下可以教授再補充一下我的理解好像這是理工學院的層級裡面通報出來的如果只有這一次我覺得到院夠重了可是問題是它有前因後果去年在這個委員會國防大學練習的人就知道葛明的這個事件了隔了六個月它又火起來了為什麼學校都不用管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6046.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6072.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
院的院長不用來這邊被尋的啊委員好 謝委員知道那個廣東大學這邊報告有關於去年開這個案子發生之後我們校長召開了很多次的管制會議然後以包括那個停定會議還有相關的那個藉著那個高老師接觸各項研究案還有當任主持人的案子他都有管制然後基於這個責任檢討我們有兩點第一點就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6074.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6098.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
在這個作業流程還有當初的國防科技官網的一個授權上面這確實是理工學院它單獨作業完成它是沒有職位我們那個校部教育長這些事我們溝通過你們開了好多會議開了好多管制會議他不能接觸機敏的資料就當時可以被聘為審查委員那會議有用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6100.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6115.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
這跟委員報告 因為這個案子後來的處置是很迅速的在5月1號生效之前我們還要把它註銷那是因為有中科院的人說這個不妥當媒體報導出來了 否則5月1號笑話就變顧立雄的笑話了 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6117.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6134.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
你們不是內空發現的你們是媒體揭露你們才處理的我們發現這個問題之後我們也是趕快做一個檢討整個作業流程都有做檢討我要回到部長這邊就是說這個事情有一個我們那天有跟軍備局也討論過了根據工程會我們所有的標案 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6135.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6152.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
的審查委員其實他的法律跟道德瑕疵是列入考量的後來呢 部長你知道嗎我們盤點了一下這個先進科技研究計畫它其實有點像標案有點像最有力標這些大學提了proposal進來核准的會有五千萬幾千萬欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6155.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6175.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
他也是一種標案結果獨獨我們軍方哪怕我們引改要蓋的房子什麼的我們在招標的時候審查委員的資格裡面是有根據公共工程委員會有一些他有法律疑義有道德瑕疵的會迴避掉全部只有先進科技研究計畫的審查委員沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6178.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6198.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
軍備局我這樣講沒錯啦 這個我們討論過了嘛就是說所有的標案喔我們在招標的時候去勾這些審查委員根據工程委員會對其他政府標案根據我們國防部對其他相關標案這個審查委員有利益迴避問題最近有被司法調查有相關的瑕疵會把他移開 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6200.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6217.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
怎麼會獨獨國防先進科技研究計畫的這個審議組的委員沒有嘛獨獨他沒有嘛我這樣講沒有錯嘛所以我們看到一個案子我們當然會難過會憤怒但我們也希望一起研討找出亡羊補牢的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6217.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6240.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
未來在這一個先進科技研究計畫的審查委員上是不是應該比照其他的標案雖然有人認為是學校提proposal但這個是有的幾百萬有的幾千萬的proposal講標案那金額也不是小案是不是應該把這樣子的考量跟其他的標案對審查委員有疑義的資格應該一致性的考慮我不知道部長看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6241.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6263.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
是跟委員說明我們確實對這件事情受到了一個重大的教訓所以我們會根據這個您講的這個工程工工程委員會他們這一個有關採購評選委員會的專家學者的這種參考名單的資料庫的這個專業性跟公正性有一個要點的一個規範我們會根據這個要點來幾日起把那個規範納入進來納入進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6270.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6287.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
坦白講我一面覺得劉志斌校長好像無辜啊因為沒有排除這個坦白講這鐵人腦袋在幹下面框了300個審查委員就只有這種審查委員萬一裡面爆出一兩個有牽涉到共諜案的勾出一個過去身上貪賭的 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6289.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6309.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
結果審查的時候根本沒有這樣排除的條件那這個長官多難當所以一面我可以體會這個校長好像是有點無辜但另外一面這件事情從去年爆發到現在整個處理的過程看起來是如火如荼有節有奏到最後是根本沒效他還是浮出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6310.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6333.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
也就是本席剛才發現審查委員這資格事情應該是在學校裡面開各項的管考會議的時候你們應該發現說這個審查委員我們沒有把這個有道德瑕疵法律瑕疵法律異議利益迴避的人排除應該當時納入納入的話就不會發生5月1號差一點人令公佈他成為審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6334.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6357.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
所以跟委員報告我只能說第一點就是說就我的了解校長在有受到這個案子當之前有停聘然後後來這個案子檢方啟動偵查之後他馬上停止他的所有相關的這些研究的計畫案那另外也逐步的要開各級的這個評議評議這個會那最後在5月6號就5月6號就已經開校教評會將他解聘這樣子那部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6366.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6373.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
檢調啟動調查是在事情爆發將近四個半月五個月後整個處理是慢的第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6374.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6398.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
第二個你停聘一堆不能接觸這些研究案結果跑出一個漏洞他竟然當了研究案的審查委員所以這就有一個洞嘛那這個洞為什麼沒有被發現誰有責任我一直認為誰有責任誰就該處分不是長官的連坐而是管理的人有管理的責任執行的人有執行的責任不是萬事小兵扛啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6399.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6425.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
管理的責任就應該管理階層要扛起來所以這個懲處人事權是您的權利我不干涉但我告訴你這件事情如果只懲處到這個層級等於枉費過去六個月到底做了什麼事情怎麼這個洞還會發生這個洞是可以堵住的然後呢我最後要提醒他成立那家公司股東部長你可以跟檢調調一個名冊股東有哪些人那些人是不是還在學校裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6426.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6453.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
有沒有查一下就是說我不確定有我也不確定沒有但是你們應該去了解一下說他敢在學校開股東會股東有沒有我們學校的人有沒有甘股有沒有背後的人這個是先進科技雖然是屬於發展期還未達機敏程度但也看得出來我們國軍要投入資本研究的方向他的公司敢在國防大學裡面開 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6455.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6474.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
你如果說沒人給他靠我實在是不太敢相信外面隨便租個餐廳都能開了黨大萬為到這個程度所以股東的成分了解一下好不好可不可以請國防部跟國防大學或者相關單位了解了解完給我們委員會一個報告我想我們下去以後請你了解吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6476.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6500.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
委員好,我是理工學院院長,跟你報告,這個武東一開始是12個人成立的12個裡面有多少是國防大學的人?這裡面有4個是國防大學的人有一個是革命的老師,那他是以他兒子的名義來做那另外三個老師,其中兩個已經離開學校了分別是退休還有已經過世了,那還剩下一個老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6501.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6527.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那他在這個案發是112年12月在那個之前他在111年的12月的時候把他的股份全部都轉讓了轉讓給其他股東其他股東所以這個公司有出具一個證明就是說該員已經不是本公司的股東坦白講你不覺得這個公司是一群我們國防大學的老師違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6530.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6554.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
去成立的一公司放在學校裡面你不覺得很誇張嗎這些在之前的處分都已經按照違反堅持進來都記過一次然後即便是已經退休的人還是記過一次我還是建議把這個流程相關人間接的三等親查一下然後能夠亡羊補牢卻沒有補到的管理的責任該負還是要負這個給部長做參考好不好 謝謝部長是 好 謝謝 先問指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6560.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6561.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
謝謝主席 有請國防部部長有請部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6595.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6619.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
市立委好部長早今天本來我想要針對國防部送來的預算解凍案中有一些針對紅準火箭彈的偽製案的細節想要跟部長請教一下首先我當然是先強調我們是百分之百去支持國防自主但是陸軍今年的話編了多少預算要購買中科院自行研發的國造紅準火箭彈呢請陸軍參謀長 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6629.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6634.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
包委員這個我下去再做一下了解你連編了多少運算你都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6640.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6641.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
好 那沒關係我先用下一個那個問題好了部長你知道中科院國照的紅種火箭彈最常被詬病的是什麼事情是不是既昂貴又無法發揮應有的效能因為我覺得它最大的被質疑的問題是在穿透力的不足的問題所以我今天想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6660.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6673.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
從你們國防部這個預算解凍案的書面上面我有看到從中科院書面上面提到了紅種火箭彈的穿透力測試是參照美軍的MILSTD2105D還有北約的AOP4526對不對我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6679.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6693.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這個請鐘哥先報委員是沒有錯好那既然是的話那你們送來的解凍的正式的關係文書這一本的書面報告上面然後你們是參照的標準是AOP4256還是AOP4526呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6699.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6710.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
還是連報告都寫錯因為我在這上面看了你們連最基本的書面報告如果都寫錯的話那我們怎麼能信任國防自主的人力來保衛能夠來保衛我們國家的安全呢你們看一下螢幕嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6717.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6732.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
到底是4526還是4256呢那整個報告是不是完全的錯誤想要中科院做一個解釋那個應該是4256那個陸軍的報告可能有物質應該是4256但是這一個明明這個圖是4526 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6737.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6743.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
是4526吧但是你們從頭到尾整個報告都是寫是4256那你們是不是要自己要看一下先看一下整個清楚因為連報告都會寫錯是這個資料我們給陸軍可能後來我們沒有幫陸軍再去檢查因為這個是蠻大的問題耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6762.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6765.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
如果是北約到時候你們再給我一個答案然後AOP如果是4526的標準進行穿透力的測試那我有發現了兩個問題從這個報告上面第一個問題就是如果你們是採用這個2018年發行的第一版但是北約在2022年的時候就有第二版了 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6783.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6785.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以北約都已經根據威脅型態的改變已經重新發了一個新版的標準了那我們國防部和中科院竟然還在用舊版做測試那是一開始就用錯了標準還是整個版本是錯誤的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6799.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6822.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
還有第二個問題才是最大的問題就是那想請問一下就是說我們現在看螢幕上面的簡報顯示這兩份美軍跟北約的技術的文件到底我們是在專業測試上面的標準和指引是什麼呢我看是完全是安全性的測試的標準和指引吧所以中度院現在你們已經自行研發了國造的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6823.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6827.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
紅準火線彈然後現在最被質疑的其實是穿透力不夠的問題但是送來的整個解凍案報告裡面的說明都是針對這兩個測試都是針對安全性的問題根本完全沒有穿透力的指引和標準所以我們再看一下這個解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6842.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6862.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
中科院採取了AOP4526這個文件上面的內容也寫得非常非常的清楚就是要解決彈藥跟裝備受到成型裝藥攻擊的安全性那我們再來看美軍這方面的這個文件上面也是做彈藥的安全指引的文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6863.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6892.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我們這樣從剛才看到現在我們下一個結論這個根本跟穿透力測試根本都無關啊所以我覺得現在如果這兩個彈藥安全的安全性的測試都是跟紅組火箭彈的穿透力根本就是完全沒有關係啊如果像我平常是我們說穿透穿透力的話是不是應該採用美軍的TOP系列的標準好像會平常是比較多那是不是會比較適合呢那想請中科院 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6894.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6918.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
先跟您報告一下關於火箭彈它的軍規標準它用的就是安全測試標準那剛剛委員有講到美軍的那個叫ATP那是它的陸軍訓練準則的它是它的準則標準但是也沒有所謂穿透力測試但是我們的穿透力測試我們做的測試就是我們能完成多少穿透力我們有實際的證據那我們也把穿透力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6919.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6936.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
數字也在報告裡面做顯示那剛剛我們給陸軍的做的專案報告裡面的確標準後來有被誤植那我們沒有幫陸軍檢查出來這是中科院的錯我們會承認所以你們有穿透力的整個的數值嘛是是是到時候再來送到辦公室來我看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6937.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6941.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
還有剛才我不斷的提問的話都是跟穿透力有關嘛但是我現在在回歸最基本的安全性那請問部長你如果說為了確保國軍弟兄在戰場上的生命的安全的話那我們這個紅種火箭彈到底有沒有一些相關安全性的測試呢我們看一下螢幕上面這些測試我們是不是都已經完整都做完了呢還是只有做一部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6961.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6982.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
所有這些事關地胸安全的部分所以我們剛剛我們講的標準就是安全測試標準所以針對這個安全測試標準我們當然是一定完成才能讓部隊去使用我想一直使用到現在所以現在整個都是做都已經完成了嘛對不對是那另外再補充一下我們現在對軍矢鋼板的穿透力我們有很明確的測試到300厘米300mm |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6987.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6995.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
OK 好 主席再給我一分鐘一下好 接下來我再問一個國造的無人機上面竟然也出現中國製的零件的發生所以我在想說請教部長為什麼我們國防自主我們自己的國造的無人機上面會有中國製造的零件上面的裝置呢難道我們台灣沒有能力去生產這一種嗎還是零件只有中國才有呢還有我在 我還有發現中科院發有發現那個銳 鴛 二型上面也有中國製的 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7016.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7020.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
的零件嘛 目前清查了情況和所有的狀況是怎麼樣呢還有針對零件的供應廠商依照合約要如何處置呢是罰款呢還是解約呢然後因為時間不夠我就一起講一講 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7031.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7045.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
還有日圓二型的中國零件有兩個一個是通信模組另外一個是SD記憶卡的裝置而且這些通信模組其實都是用在無人機的主鏈路的上面所以主鏈路上面如果有中國製的零件其實會不會對我們未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7047.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7050.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
國軍在實際操作的演練那時候會構成資料傳輸上面的國安危害呢那以後會不會以後無人機飛上去不管偵測到什麼看到什麼其實資料還沒有回傳台灣都已經回傳到對岸了所以我想說這個的話可以請中科院還是部長回答一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7066.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7091.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
這個由鍾惠蘭回答第一個就是這兩型無人機都還沒有量產是在試研制的階段然後我們在試研制階段這個東西是從國外進口的那進口以後我們在進口檢驗的時候發現裡面的確有它的SD卡是中國製的那我們就要求原廠要能更換那我們在台灣我們自己的供應鏈上幫他找到合適的東西協助他來更換而我們從國外進口很多東西雖然 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7092.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7113.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我們當時在合約裡面都有這樣明定但是他在製作過程因為我不可能到國外去做製成的茶盒所以都是在進口我們最後檢驗的時候會發現然後我們就協助他更換那也同時協助這個廠商在我們台灣來建立非紅的供應鏈這是我們可以做的也是我們最後能夠確保我們所有量產的東西都沒有中國大陸製品 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7115.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7140.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我跟委員報告我想最後總結從公安部的立場就是說我們希望所有的這些相關如果能夠在台灣有一個完成的完全的一個製程的話我們就能夠避免那這個部分也是我們在驗收的時候主動發現然後要求更換以後量產我們現在為什麼要建立一個自主的一個供應鏈的一個生產的目的也就是在於這樣子才能夠真正的有效堵決 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7141.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7148.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這個中國製的這個這個產品然後來進口這樣子好那我們是希望不要再發生這件事情啦所以我們想請我想請國防部會後一個月遞交一個書面報告說明金峰一型還有日元二型這兩款的無人機為什麼會出現中國製的零件還有針對缺失還有供應商這些你們會採取什麼樣的措施和未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7167.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7174.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
萬一投產前你們會如何改善這樣的鏈路系統給本席可以嗎是好謝謝好那我們先謝謝伊勛委員那我們現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7786.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7808.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
好我們現在繼續開會接下來有請王洪威委員上台質詢好謝謝主席請顧立雄部長還有我們的空軍司令部參謀長好有請顧部長有請參謀長空軍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7817.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7840.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
部長 參謀長在今年的5月8號其實發生了一個非常嚴重的事情就是在松山機場的松址部竟然停電將近8個小時之久那這個事情第一時間我看到媒體的報導部長說都有掌握我想部長恐怕掌握的是有停電的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7841.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7860.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那其實我個人我自己本身就住在這個松山機場的旁邊所以呢在整個的就全台限電邊阻我們就是H也就是在全台在什麼大停電的時候我們家都不會停電為什麼呢我們就是受惠於旁邊有松山機場 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7861.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7863.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以5月8號當天其實附近並沒有停電可是我們的松子部卻停電8個小時這非常嚴重啊大家都知道整個的松山基地的指揮部的任務是整個的我們大台北地區我們的首都的國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7881.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7899.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
整個的國防任性不是會因此破功嗎大家都很擔心說如果真的有戰事的話松山機場第一個是不能夠被癱瘓的結果我們自己在沒有任何戰事的狀況之下自己停電而停電八個小時之久啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7900.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7928.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
不用等到人家來癱瘓我們我們自己就先行癱瘓好 所以從5月8號到現在已經這麼多天過去了我想請問一下部長能夠掌握到底為什麼會這樣的大停電然後我們未來會不會發生類似這樣的狀況這個會讓大家覺得我們不要說是電力韌性而是整個的國防韌性因此都破功所以部長您所掌握的狀況是如何呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7929.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7929.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們是不是先請常務長 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7932.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7959.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
委員好 空軍事務部常務長跟您做一個簡單的回報那這個部分首先針對現象的部分先跟您做一個回報那一天因為連日的大雨所以說造成其中一個變電箱一個迴路的變電箱有受潮那短路的狀況造成停電那這個狀況因為它有四個迴路它在修這個迴路的時候另外三個迴路要先停下來這是現象那再跟您報告不會耽誤到戰備的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7961.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7983.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
停電都不會單倍到賬戶狀況那為什麼它還要變成H呢對不對以後一起限電算了跟您報告我們一般占倍的這個設施分成三個部分第一個在設計的時候它就會分成行政區跟重要的設施我時間非常有限我想請問一下所以這次松子部的停電 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7984.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8002.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
無關於外面台電的它的電路而是我們自己內部的高壓變電的設備出現跳電那是因為沒有維修嗎若一場大雨今日幾場大雨就會造成停電八小時這會不會是一個任性破口呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8003.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8028.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
跟委員報告那一天的狀況發生之後戰備的發電機都有接替起來我們有三個保險的措施第一個就是剛剛跟您報告的我們會分作戰區跟行政區第二個重要的設施都有不斷電系統第三個重要的設施都有重要的發電機因為發電機的這個大小好我請問部長您可以接受剛才參謀長的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8030.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8037.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我想主要還是在於相關的這些了解這個現象之後那我們應該要定期的來去檢視這些相關的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8044.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8068.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
因為從5月8號到今天已經有一段時間了沒有 他們現在就要有一些綠定有提出報告給您了嗎是 他們都有相關的報告上來所以您有掌握另外有一個很重要的問題這個也牽涉到就是到時候今天大概沒有送進來就是有關於我們前進國造的這部分的預算的解凍的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8070.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8082.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
請問一下本來四月份我們的海昆號應該進行海上測試結果延後延到五月五月現在已經五月中旬了那請問一下部長我們現在這個海昆號的海測的時間確定了嗎還是仍然在不確定中 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8094.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8110.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我想我們現在應該是說我們會進入測試這個波港測試的一個最後的階段我們還是要確認達到海上測試的安全條件我們才會決定實際出海的一個時程好所以現在到目前為止沒有辦法確定出海的時間是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8112.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8129.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我沒有辦法給委員一個確切的一個意見那另外請教這個禁新聞就是這兩天有一個內部消息說為什麼會推遲我們的這個海昆號的海測主要是出現了主機故障這個是確實的嗎我想主機的一個都還在進行一個測試調校的過程當中所以確實有主機故障的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8141.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8156.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
主機應該是說我們還在進行一個系統的一個聯測我想還在進行這樣的一個調教我想備變之後應該就可以來進行海測所以這個報導沒有錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8160.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8186.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
應該是說我們主機本來就是要進行做一些聯測調校的一個過程那這些驗測我們一定要完全合乎標準了之後我們才會再進行所以顯然到現在沒有合乎標準所以有關於海測的部分當然我們必須要基於一個整個的安全至上因為我們海測是由我們海軍會支援去測試是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8188.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8204.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
海軍會支援測試吧海軍支援測試是不是支援就是這個測試總要有人去測試啊那當然所以我們海軍會支援測試是那我想請問一下那相關的保險買了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8208.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8234.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
保險因為測試一定需要保險請問一下保險已經買了嗎然後是應該是國外的吧因為國內我想應該大概沒辦法承受這麼大的我們相關只要跟出海測試有相關的保險台船公司跟我們所有那邊有關的專案團隊的保險部分都已經做完完善的規劃所以有關於海昆號海測的部分保險的部分已經有完備是 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8235.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8258.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
好 好 謝謝謝謝王國昌委員接下來有請黃國昌委員上台質詢謝謝主席 有請部長有請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8269.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8292.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
部長好,治安就是國安,我相信這個應該是大家目前的共識今年3月的時候,有查獲一家深瑞電子之前是說什麼安控國家隊,結果做了丟人現眼的事情說是台灣的安控國家隊,結果在賣中國貼牌貨把中國的監視器改標成MIP |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8294.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8320.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那具相關的資訊國防部的軍事要塞、關鍵基礎設施通通都淪陷了4月的時候國家資通安全研究院也做了通報他不僅僅是賣中國的貼牌貨他的監視器主機竟然有連線到中國的行為那這個事情就大條了第一個賣中國貼牌貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8322.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8336.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
第二個他的監視器主機連線到中國然後竟然說是我們台灣的安控國家隊那這個事情因為很嚴重所以我在總質詢的時候我有質詢卓榮泰院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8338.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8356.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那院長當時我在總質詢的時候可能對於過去這兩個月所發生這樣的事情沒有什麼掌握那也沒有關係那我就給院長時間那院長說他兩個禮拜會要求所有相關的部會來去清查最後的結果回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8357.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8385.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那我等到上個禮拜五對不起他說兩週啊我等到上個禮拜五兩週的時間到了那因為負責統合的是速發部速發部要把資訊回傳回來速發部回傳的是說啊他們目前統計有三千四百項這樣子的產品用在各個不同的部會當中那三千四百項這個數字當然是讓人看了非常的擔心那不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8387.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8401.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
他上面的3400項其實不包括國防部跟經濟部他說國防部還在整理資料請問一下部長目前整理資料的情況跟進度到什麼地方總指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8402.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8426.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
網友好通知是報告首先先跟委員講一下這個東西是我們在治安健檢的主動發現然後跟回報的事情所以你們如果是很早就發現的話應該資料找就好了對所以我們統部國軍總共有954部是有這個但是都屬於單機跟脫離網域的它是獨立作業的這是我們清查完的全國軍有954部那你什麼時候知道有954部是5月2號 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8432.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8461.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
對,那為什麼上個禮拜不回我資料?我們現在已檢討,我們立刻回覆不是啊,我覺得很奇怪啊這個是左榮泰做的承諾啊我總質詢也沒為難他兩個禮拜也是左榮泰說的那我也願意給左榮泰時間啊啊,速發部回給我的是說你們國防部資料還沒有準備好然後你今天跟我講說原來你5月2號東西都好了那很奇怪,那你們東西都好了為什麼不給我? |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8463.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8483.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們下去檢討那你們現在這900多部現在打算怎麼辦因為它屬於單機我們現在都禁止它使用了那因為它沒有跟民網連線它屬於獨立的網域沒有啦 我們一樣一樣來啦現在你先不要牽涉到連線上面的問題啦依照國防部的規範可以買中國的貼牌貨嗎不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8486.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8511.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
所以我現在才問你要怎麼處理我們現在有精進的作為精進的作為是未來現在這900多部要怎麼處理我們已經停用了 全部都完全停用只要停用就算了我們會檢討當初為什麼會有因為這個還要說明原來是我們自己發現的是啦 900多部你要不要跟廠商求償跟他主張要他負法律責任這個是最基本的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8512.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8538.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
你未來當然要改善嘛現在我是針對你這900多部你說有安全的疑慮先停用我同意但是這900多部要納稅人買單嗎這是我的問題這個責任總要追究吧我有沒有說錯沒有部長那個再麻煩部長喔督導一下相關的法律責任該追究要追究啦因為發生這樣的事情還是納稅人買單這樣不對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8540.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8566.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我們會去檢視一下相關的合約然後來進行 依合約來進行好 看怎麼處置等你們方便的時候回覆給我我也不壓時間 這樣可以嗎好 再來就是因為這種事情一而再再而三的發生我老實講 我非常驚訝也蠻困擾的因為我又接到檢舉說我們的資通訊產品就禁用中國製的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8569.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8594.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
然後呢但是我接到檢舉我一定去求證我一定求證我不會有人給我檢舉我的就算了所以我四月的時候跑去龍門營區按照他檢舉的資料我去了現場我去了現場看那個交換器這個是我在現場看那個機器跟拍的照片大剌剌的就寫Made in China |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8596.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8609.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那我也覺得很奇怪這是我們政府早就宣示的政策而且這個機子是最近才裝的那怎麼會大剌剌的上面貼著Made in China那我們還是讓他放在我們國軍的營區當中呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8612.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8636.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
因為我那天看完了以後我有跟那個我們營區的弟弟兄說說這個事情可能要跟國防部反映一下因為你們應該要有一個標準的作業程序吧今天在你們所提出來的書面報告當中書面報告你們說要在營區裝置繪型警箭案執行規劃報告這個報告寫的都不錯啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8642.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8670.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
說你們一定不會用然後有省監人員攝影機不會用絕對不允許但現實的狀況就不是這樣啊部長這件事情你有掌握嗎他沒有通報上來我是不是請參謀長好來是包委我簡單報告一下這個案子他兩個缺失第一個單位是以小額採購而且他沒有呈報到市民部來審核那這個的確是我們要再檢討精進的一個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8673.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8690.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我這樣說好了啦因為其實我那天去農民營區的時候跟那些弟兄有面對面的溝通嘛其實我覺得那些弟兄其實蠻認真也蠻負責的啦所以我腦袋我一直在想說他們應該不是故意的他們應該不是故意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8691.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8718.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
可能是採購的人員東西送來的時候在SOP的程序上面連看都沒看一下這個東西到底是哪裡做的因為他真的大剌剌的就寫Made in China結果我那天在這個影區看的時候我看到這一台因為我在找檢舉人的檢舉機器在哪裡我看完這一台了以後我到辦公室裡面又看到一台更大台的 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8719.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8737.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
又看到一排更大的台那上面一樣是用簡體字寫那用簡體字寫我看了這個就說這個貼牌只限於用在中國的區域那我一看就知道這中國字啦那我就問營區的弟兄說這東西哪裡來的他說是第六軍團從上面發下來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8740.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8744.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
這個不是他們買的這個事情他們有通報嗎這個是他們小兒採購沒有沒有他們那天 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8750.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8774.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
他們那上面一張你看的是他們自己想要採購這個不是他們採購的這個他說是第六軍團發下來所以我後來才發文去問第六軍團所以你們怎麼會發這個東西給人家所以後面您查的六個採購暗號那六個採購暗號另外我們查的就是剛才您委員所指導的那個深瑞的那個那個監視器的主機的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8775.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8793.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
沒有啦現在就這個已經不是深瑞這是這不是深瑞的監視器這個是交換器網路交換器是是是龍門營區的四個網路交換器是這個不是深瑞的這個是中國製的你有沒有看一下造物片有有四顆對那我現在的問題一模一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8793.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8818.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
他們說這不是他們買的是第六軍團發的現在問題很簡單第六軍團怎麼會上面的單位發給我們基層的單位直接發中國製的交換器給他們因為你如果說基層的弟兄採購人員訓練不足SOP沒有建立好有一些疏失這個我都可以理解但東西是從上面發下來的問題就嚴重了 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8819.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8837.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我這樣說有沒有錯這個我要下去再了解一下因為當初我的了解是是他們採小額採購然後沒有循序不是啦 那個是上一台這一台不是這樣那個書面報告他們有回給我再麻煩你們回去了解一下好不好因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8838.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8863.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我相信政府做這樣的宣示 政策上面做這樣的宣示 大家都支持但問題是在執行面上面 從去年到今年一件又一件 一件又一件的爆發那顯然在執行面上面出了非常大的問題嗎部長我這樣說對吧我想我們會再來做一個執行面上面的一個徹底的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8864.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8880.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
好 那你們執行院上面到底要怎麼樣徹底的檢討這件事情你們方便的時候給我一個書面報告可以嗎是好 謝謝好 謝謝黃光昌委員接下來有請陳永康委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8894.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8897.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好 主席有請部長 顧部長有請顧部長 謝謝社委陳委員好部長好本來今天這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8910 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8929.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
聚焦是讨论预算解冻所以在之前我并没有登记发言但是因为前面听到了几位委员那么这个质询有关国际情势以及预算冻结会不会影响到国军的战力甚至油盐转战 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8932.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8945.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我覺得扭曲了方向我不針對個人來講那現在我就特別對印阿戰爭這個印巴戰爭的這個衝突性啊以及一些分析的方法我提供國防部做個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8949.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8968.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
因為我這是臨時決定所以只是傳了三張圖本來這個圖都是動態的第一個就是10號雖然宣布停火了但是小型的衝突還是有發生最主要就是當兩個國家有空中衝突的時候第一個給我們的不是國際媒體的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8970.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8992.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
因为如果你有个软体你是付钱客户的话你可以看国际民航的机的航道也就知道它是最敏感的第一个航线取消第二个改道所以你用Flightradar24用付款的客户的话你可以回溯到哪一天哪一天当时的民航机立刻改道这是一个预警第二个就是说涵盖大范围的图像 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8993.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9004.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
國防部已經強調了現在都在進行這個所謂J-Cup但是呢那是你的功能整合可是你對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9006.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9031.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
民間或是對於我們的國安團隊或者是對比較高階的長官要做報告的時候你不能用一張單獨透明圖涵蓋所以你可以看到這個圖的是涵蓋印度巴基斯坦實際上這個原始檔案是套在衛星照片上這個飛機是動態的圖那麼就是克什米爾的衝突就在中間的那個方塊上面我們再進到下一張圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9033.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9057.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
刚才也有委员讲说不要被媒体战心理战误导了中国的东西厉不厉害是一回事我们要了解敌方的强点怎么样预防那么发现我的不足地方怎么强化这一次在巴基斯坦国际媒体记者会说他用的是令克妖怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9058.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9085.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
这个是吃豆腐了因为在2001年4月1号美国的EP3在南海跟中共创机那这个飞机紧急迫降在临水机场这个飞机被中共扣了14天美国当时讲你扣一天我就提供台湾一个军售所以2001年美国通过13项军售但后面执行状况我们不是今天的重点在这个14天中间 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9087.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9114.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
中国大陆把美国这个飞机拆解逆向工程我相信在部分Link16的通讯的一些框架概念架构上面他们得到了一些技术逆向工程然后这个飞机拆解的最后是跟俄罗斯租飞机运回美国去这个图是一个矩阵的方块图那一般我们的媒体都说是这个利用这个ZK3直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9116.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9121.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
帶飛機 管飛彈那個技術工程他們不懂 我不批評這個裡面告訴你是一個網路架構 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9123.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9147.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那我们国军也有这个网络架构可是这个网络架构呈现出来的东西你必须用一个图像就像在右下角的那个中间克什米尔那个冲突点的爆发地方都可以显示出来那么根据这个巴基斯坦国际媒体的讲是打掉三架标峰一架苏凯三四一架米格二十九 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9148.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9157.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那還有一架無人機那這個印度呢對外就講他損失三價不講細節這些啊如果你沒有一個完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9159.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9183.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
网络格局的框架有时候对别人解释是比较难的它不是点度点它是进到系统的框架里面然后做目标的分配至于预警机本身它的项链雷达搜索式的主动项链雷达被动式项链雷达它能不能去控制飞弹的频道那是另外一回事我们就不去谈判看下一张图 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9184.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9209.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
这个图就是给我们做一个国军要做个参考我们现在平常去报告有关这个中共的威胁在台海周遭活动我们只是聚焦在防空识别区以及周遭一点点范围这个是这个今年的三月底这个山东号穿越那我相信我们的航机都有追踪可是对于日本的防空识别区 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9211.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9235.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
東海防空識別區的涵蓋範圍重疊區以及鄰近國家的涵蓋範圍如果能夠標註上去你就知道另外有四條船從東海艦隊下來跟他會合穿越宮古水道的時候實際上日本是全程掌握但這個情資有沒有跟我們互惠分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9236.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9254.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
可能沒有及時分享但是還是可以當然交換那這個圖我給的建議就是說我們必須建立一個幅員比較大的一個圖包括了你的防控識別區包括你的臨海基線包括對方的駐地那個是公開資料那用這個情況下 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9256.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9276.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
對於我們在部內開會或跨部會開會或是提供我們高階的到國安會去的時候你看到的是一個完整的構想而不是一個空的圖那麼那個距離是比較難的我這個是特別提供聯二或者是我們做勤研單位做個分析這一次的 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9278.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9299.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
硬扒双方的国际记者会我建议大家去把它英文版的看下来然后交叉比对而不是说因为我们国际的媒体报道就被洗脑了中国大陆它现在技术有突破也有从过去的资料立项工程达到的我们一直是美国的使用客户 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9300.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9321.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那有些東西要做精進像這一次巴基斯坦承認美國不准他使用F16只准做境內的防空但不能做公式行動像這些東西如果你把印巴的我想後面我們下次說提供一個完整的印巴的作戰圖像給各位做一個參考我們要共同努力也是希望這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9323.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9337.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
看到別人的犯錯經驗我們一定要做精進那麼減少失誤這個先立於不敗之地勝兵先勝而後求戰敗兵先戰而後求勝這是給我們一個例子謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9340.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9365.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我想我們對剛剛陳委員指教我們是對前進都有您剛剛的圖示這樣的前進是都有所掌握那有關於這一次的相關在印巴衝突之中的這些相關的一些作為我想我們密切的來收住以後我們會來有一個應對的一個作為這樣那林二要不要補充還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9366.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9390.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
報告委員 連任次長在這邊跟您做報告您剛剛所指教的 我們會列入後面深入探討的重點那另外還有一些可能也不適合在公情上面跟您做報告的我們後面如果您需要的話 我們會再跟您做說明 謝謝好 謝謝 大家共同努力好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝陳永康委員接下來我們有請馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9400.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9402.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩請部長要請顧部長部長 早部長 最近因為兩岸的關係非常緊張所以尤其像我們疫情其實也改了不過我們最近看到很多藝人或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9424.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9433.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
其他的藝男其實都有發生一些狀況就是他原來應該要服兵役的可是有些人已經超過年齡的限制尤其是藝人有非常多的這種狀況他已經超過他的年齡限制這一部分他是不是仍然需要當兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9441.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9470.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
因為他用很多的方式去閃兵這個部分部長不知道有沒有掌握因為我們看到應該是兩部分嘛一個您講的應該是他在這個醫療的這叫什麼經濟局來鑑定他的這個等級嘛這個是一個面向他有可能然後另外您講的應該是說他有沒有涉及到還在這個服兵役的年齡範圍之內所以委員指的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9471.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9490.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我們現在也從兩個方向來講好了第一個就是其實我們看到他那個閃兵集團就是你教授如何去躲避這個兵役所以現在陸陸續續有很多方法出來比如說讓他造成高血壓憋氣什麼用很多的方式然後再找人替代等等然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9491.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9495.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
接下來如果讓他們順利的已經過了這個伏兵役的年齡因為他如果造假這個是另外一回事這個部分我們請國防部也應該要積極的去針對這個部分去做一個修正不然你只要有辦法他都可以不要盡國民的義務啊那其他人就乖乖的呆呆的大家都必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9516.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9523.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
按部就班的做另外一個就是說如果因為這樣的因素然後超過他的兵役的年齡他就不需要再服兵役是嗎因為我們看到現在有很多的案例他是罰錢就好了那如果這樣有錢的人包括剛剛說有事的人有關係的人有辦法的人其實他其實不用服兵役那以現在兩岸的兵凶戰委可能這個部分會更嚴重部長怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9543.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9565.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我想首先法律上來講的話他如果以這樣故意的一個手段來逃避兵役的話要接受這個法律的制裁部長目前都是罰錢所以其實我們可以看到就剛剛講的嘛你只要有錢有事有關係有辦法那你可能就不需要服兵役而且就過了就算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9566.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9575.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
所以這個部分因為在這裡我想沒有辦法立即的有一個有效的一個處置的方式這個部分部長是不是有什麼樣的一個辦法去解決先我們先想應該要怎麼解決好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9583.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9591.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
內政部議政司最近有跟我們聯絡關於前一陣子有一些新聞事件我們這一次會通盤請我們嘗試來主持通盤檢討一下關於體位有很多地方會修我們現在正在進行至於關於違反兵役制裁條例的部分我們請法律司來回 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9610.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9634.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
簡單講就好了因為報委員那個有刑事責任啦因為或許法院的判決可能是用怎麼樣一個罰金的方式來做但是防疫病疫諮詢條裡面規範的話他是有刑事責任的他有一些不是造假啦可是他在其他他可能出國去了然後他回來的時間已經超過現在他就不需要再服病疫有些是這樣他可能出去念書然後大概就沒有回到台灣來那回來其實他已經超過時間了大概現在是用罰錢的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9642.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9645.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這個要到達廚藝年齡相當的久其實也不會啦三十幾歲有很多出去念書工作其實大概就已經到這樣的年齡現在已經越來越多我們現在說的是因為當大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9658.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9663.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
覺得對撫平役可能產生恐懼或排斥再加上現在的整體的緊張的氣氛其實可能很多的方法會出來那如果你們就國防部的立場是要可能在禁國民義務的時候尤其我們還可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9679.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9696.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
越來越長那這樣的情況之下我們可能可以更周全對於藝人尤其像今天有提到大概都是藝人比較多啦永和有五個嘛然後行大大概有六個人嘛大概都立即要處理的我們希望有一個積極的辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9699.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9726 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我想還是分兩部分一部分當然就是說體位的部分剛剛已經講了那個醫療的一個鑑定這樣子他的體位的這個部分我們要做一個改善那另外剛剛講的就是說如果他是故意的來逃避兵役的話我們會來依法來處理那這個部分我們還要跟內政部議政司來負責因為這是屬於他要由內政部來依送這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9726.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9729.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個部分顯然還沒有辦法做一個有效的處置我們現在要講的是它的公平性還有它的公正性這個部分我們請國防部可以在近期可以提出來那另外就是說在上週發生一名師大附中數理資優班的學生他因為未入 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9747.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9752.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
他在南京出生然後未入本國籍滿20年所以不符合報名資格被國防醫學院他撤銷了這個入取資格的事情我想部長大概也知道這件事嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9762.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9781.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
部長您是法律人台灣是自由民主的國家都說依法行政不管是陸委會海基會還有國防部其實都說我們是依法行政可是我們希望行政單位不要因為特殊的原因政治的目的曲解法令然後去限制國人我想請教一下因為尤其這個是廣義的授教權現在的軍校生是軍人嗎軍校生還不是軍人 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9788.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9789.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
所以不是軍人我們的大陸地區人民我們兩岸人民關係條例第21條的規定因為陸委會就是以這一條提起的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9801.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9827.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
法規法規我想分兩點簡單跟說明一下就是說該名呢就是說因為他的母親是入籍人士所以當時在這個出生的時候呢應該是在中國大陸是有戶籍的所以他回來的時候他講要放棄入籍的證明那因為放棄入籍的證明要滿20年才可以進入這一個軍事院校這個是在這個軍事院校學生研究生學籍規則裡面明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9827.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9849.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那這個辦法的規定是在民國92年並不是現在才規定所以這個沒有任何最近因為任何的政治因素的考量第二點就是說因為進到軍事醫院教室要培養為軍官的所以我們對這一個如果我們現在有各種不同的學校有的學校念兩年有的學校可能念四年那你所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9850.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9867.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
按照學籍的規定在他進入學校的軍事院校培養為軍官士官的之前他就應該要具有一定戶籍滿20年的時候才可以報名這一個部分我想部長我剛剛提到的兩岸人命關係條例第21條裡面他說大陸地區人民經許可進入台灣地區者非在台灣地區設有戶籍滿20年不得班任 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9877.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9896.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
情報機關的人員或者國防機關之下列人員這裡面有第一個志願役的軍官、士官還有士兵第二個就是義務役的軍官及士官第三是文職、教職以及國軍的聘僱人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9898.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9909.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這三個在條例裡面清清楚楚的其實他的身份背景有詳細的一個規範可是軍校生他並不是軍人在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9911.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9927.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
民國96年以後他已經不是了他被取消軍公教人員的年終工作獎金軍校學生在95年以前是下士的軍人身份可是96年以後就不是了所以他並沒有在兩岸人民關係條例第21條裡面受規範的這樣的人你如果說在招生檢章你寫的這樣的規定可是你抵觸到法令或者憲法的時候其實他是不被允許的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9938.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9953.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我們現在在這裡是針對這個部分如果像這樣因為我們要限制的是怕可能有被滲透或者可能有其他的考量可是因為這個學生他雖然他是在大陸出生他兩歲就回到台灣他父親也是台灣人他一直都在台灣成長、就學他只是想念這個學校他本身並不具備軍人身分如果以這個條例來看他並不會被限制部長您說是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9968.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9977.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
但是我們認為他是培養這一個軍事觀的一個搖籃我們認為我們對國軍有他是醫學院如果照這樣說那我們孫立芳將軍其實他年紀更大你是說你們國防部講的說法是說因為他那時候還沒有這個法律規定可是如果照部長現在說的我們是培養我們的軍人 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9993.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10010.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我們用的還有包括一些勤制的人員如果是這樣那他如果到十幾歲之前他的背景其實更要讓大家注意那你如果只是因為這樣子而且你的法律並不適用他沒有軍人的身分如果他念到國防醫學院畢業以後其實他已經超過20年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10021.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10026.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
所以你只是在年限上面去做這些解釋或者就直接讓他不能夠參加這個部分部長你是不是再看再可以詳細的再去檢視清楚因為他是一個優秀的學生很難得 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10040.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10059.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我想我們的剛剛已經報告過了就是說學籍規則這樣的一個規定是從民國92年就開始我們培養我們有各種不同的學制那也是培養軍事部長我們知道啦可是你是法律出身法律人出身的嘛我現在說你們依據的法律因為你們一直說依法你們說依法可是如果他抵觸到法律你應該要這一個部分去讓我們國人的權益受到保障啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10068.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10095.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
跟馬委員報告我們沒有抵觸法律我們只是要求我們比法律更嚴格的一個學級管制高深規章的規定那也不是規定可以超越這個部分因為你現在如果讓他可以他是檢章而已嘛所以這個部分我想在法律上面沒有這樣規定的時候我們的檢章就去把它剔除他的資格這樣是有疑慮的而且這樣子的狀況造成我們國人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10098.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10121.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
整個權益的受損我想這個可能還要再多做考慮好不好部長是不是就這個部分在你對於法律未接的情況之下這個部分到底是你用就是我們兩岸人民關係條例他不是他現在是類似一個法規命令的一個規定嗎一個在學籍規則規定不是單純的招生檢張 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10122.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10143.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
他是招生简章啊 你们自己可以看一下我们的学习规则请你们提供出来啦你把你的 不管它的相关的法律规定或者这个法 两岸人民关系条例它的法它限制的是哪些你们做一个比较 然后我们再来做后续的讨论好不好那接下来不好意思 再借一点点时间我想请教部长我们的海昆号现在台船跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10151.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10179.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
台船跟中科院在我們如果不管是服航或者要海事的時候那我們軍方要派什麼人去參加有嗎有 我們軍方會有這個海軍會持續會有一個專案的一個團隊來進行那它在海事的時候它的操作是由什麼人負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10183.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10191.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
海事的時候有什麼人負責操作所有的武器裝備所有的運行主要會是256戰隊還有海昆的為什麼因為我們的飛機我們從過去如果說我們像我們的F16AB升級或者像永英號其實漢翔他們在製造的時候他們都有試飛員當他還沒有交給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10209.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10212.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
國防還沒有交給我們海軍的時候還沒有交給空軍的時候他們都是必須要自己去測試到安全然後可用然後沒有其他的狀況的時候才交給我們的國軍嘛那你現在海昆號還沒有達到這樣的一個狀況我們有我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10230.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10244.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
剛剛說我們是有256戰隊要去做我們來看一下因為安全是最重要的他們還沒有做任何的測試他還沒有交給我們海軍萬一發生狀況的時候怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10251.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10265.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我想不是只有256應該是整個專案的團隊那結合256的一個潛艦的一個部長過去因為他必須有台船他們因為他有看漢牆有試飛員所以你如果在 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10267.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10287.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
因為這一次我們是直接委制他不是代工所以就這個部分他的法律責任非常的明確他還沒有交給我們所以他不管不只是保險萬一有發生狀況的時候因為安全是最重要這是台灣的第一次安全是最重要的我們也沒有經驗萬一發生狀況的時候他還有撫恤的問題那他到底是屬於台船的還是我們國軍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10293.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10321.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
是 謝委員知道 跟委員報告因為潛艦國造算是一個國內首次來做建造那在我們國內還有我們其實在民間的業界船廠並沒有具備潛艦的操縱跟實際的一個配合的一個測試的那台船公司也已經有規劃要續聘相關的退役或是相關計時人員來協助後續的測試那這個都在進行中所以因為國內的能量不足所以目前還是陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10322.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10350.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
部長因為時間的關係我在這裡本席要特別提醒一下因為我們是第一次剛剛說沒有這些台船沒有具備這樣的能量可是他已經要做後面的二到八艘了他沒有理由沒有這些人員你像漢翔我們剛剛提這個例子就是他有是非緣我們也有很多退役的或者像這些相關的這些船員他具備這樣的一個能力照理說台船必須要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10352.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10372.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
負擔這樣的一個人員因為你現在用國軍這個問題會非常非常嚴重如果發生狀況的時候因為這個不是在海昆號現在不在海軍的編制裡面包括這些官兵的薪水海上勤務還有包括他的狀況我們剛剛提到最嚴重的如果是撫恤他是一個很大的問題對因為我 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10376.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10391.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我的了解是,我們不管因為潛艦也好,水面艦也好,如果我們都是自己的自主偽製案的話,應該在交接在做相關的測試的時候,都除了有他們本身的專案編組之外,也有我們的接見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10393.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10412.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
接到艦的官兵海軍會有人 可是不是所有操作的人員這是有差別的部長這是有差別 不是現在如果您去了解看看因為如果現在還不是屬於海軍的那我們的國軍弟兄如果他拒絕他不要去可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10414.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10425.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
因為他還不是我們海軍編制內的,他如果不要去可不可以?他在編制內,沒有在編制內沒有沒有,他還沒有交給我們沒有在編制內我們有接艦的資源編制接艦的資源編制跟你現在的海軍編制的正式的軍人,這是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10436.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10440.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這是不一樣的如果像這樣子你所有的操作全部都是我們國軍的官兵要上船去操作這是有問題我先在這裡提出來我們希望部長還有參謀長大家去思考一下我剛剛的問題如果我們的官兵他不願意去可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10458.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10464.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這請就這個部分部長您要回答嗎部長這個等會後再提供資料我們都在專案編組之內沒有部長他還沒有交件他就沒有在我們的編制內這個參謀長請跟部長說明清楚專案的編制內 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10475.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10491.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
專案的編制內沒有海軍它的是潛艦小組你要上去操作包括它的輪機包括它所有的裝備的操作跟這個是不一樣的這個部分請審慎的去評估跟考量而且不要任意犧牲我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10492.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10509.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
受過這些訓練的我們的官兵我知道部長這一次你停下來你有考量到安全性所以我們今天才會特別提醒這個部分我相信這也是部長心裡最重視的那這個部分我們先可以提出來那怎麼樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10511.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10525.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
找一個比較周全的方式或者台船應該自己要去培養這樣的一個人因為他已經接我們第一艘後面還有七艘沒有理由是由我們的官兵去做這樣子的一個測試而且他是有風險的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10530.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10558.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
好我們謝謝馬文君委員齁這個接下來請黃仁委員上台質詢黃仁委員黃仁委員黃仁委員不在接下來請羅明才委員上台質詢羅明才羅明才羅明才委員不在接下來有請蔡易餘委員上台質詢蔡易餘蔡易餘蔡易餘委員不在接下來有請鄭振淺委員上台質詢鄭振淺鄭振淺鄭振淺委員不在接下來有請葉元芝委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10560.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10574.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
葉元芝 葉元芝 葉元芝委員不在那已登記的質詢委員處不在場外均已發言完畢那報告及詢答結束本日會議有黃人委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10577.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10606.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那這個委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者再請相關機關以書面答覆那立有約定期限者從其鎖定那因為接下來我們還有八件這個討論的事項所以呢我們先來處理一下這一個討論事項討論事項一是處理這一個國防部主管的這個預算凍結提出專案報告並經同意後時的凍置案也就是今天前面報告的這一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10607.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10612.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
國防部剛才已經做完專案報告了請問各位委員是否同意解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10615.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10639.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
好那同意那同意動之我們將這一個討論事項依舊提報院會那接下來我們來處理討論事項第二項至第八項而二項到八項是這個主管預算凍結案中也是一樣提出書面報告並經同意後時得動之不是專案報告就是書面報告而已那總計有七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10639.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10665.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那這個國防部已將書面報告送交本會請問各位委員是否同意解凍同意同意同意好國民黨人間他們都離開了是不是同意那我們就這個第七案第二到第八均同意動之提報院會那如果沒有問題的話本日會議到此結束散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10669.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10671.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
有幾個 蠻多是好幾個是他的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10698.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10699.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
好嘞 |