| IVOD_ID |
16665 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16665 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-12T08:30:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-12T12:25:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:54:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc7f5e9927fcb957775e5a7d9476abbdb352bdb8234cc31cacb5fe892363ece9cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於監察院主管預算凍結項目共1案。
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管預算凍結項目共7案。
三、審查及處理114年度中央政府總預算關於考試院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。
四、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於法務部及所屬主管預算凍結項目共23案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:45 - 12:25:00 |
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14000.47596875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1924.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1947.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
報告委員會初席委員8人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會我們現在開會進行報告事項第一案請宣讀上次會議的議事錄立法院第11屆第三會期司法及法治委員會第15次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國114年5月5日星期一上午9時1分至12時33分5月7日星期三上午9時2分至12時20分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1951.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1966.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員黃國昌委員等12人列席委員張綺凱委員等15人列席官員5月5日司法院刑事廳廳長李大任等人5月7日司法院副秘書長王梅英等人主席吳兆吉委員鐘憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1968.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1991.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
5月5日報告事項一宣讀上次會議議事錄決定決定二邀請總統府秘書長國家安全會議秘書長國家安全局外交部大陸委員會並再次邀請司法院副秘書長法務部部長法務部調查局局長法務部廉政署署長行政院員是行政總署全序部內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就近期連環爆發總統府國家安全會議外交部遭公諜滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1992.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2006.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
及忠诚安全查核不足导致国家机敏资讯外泄提出检讨报告及相关防治措施之预算进行进行专题报告并被质询本日会议有委员黄国昌等12人提出质询委员徐欣盈提出书面质询 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2007.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2032.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員諮詢時要求相關提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會五月七日報告事項邀請司法院副秘書長法務部部長法務部調查局局長行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官認證部警政署署長數位發展部國家通訊傳播委員會金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2033.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2059.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
臺灣造電合國僅施為東亞東南亞跨國詐欺集團據點制檢討與防範及打詐釋法與相關執法實行後致具體成效進行專題報告並備質詢本日會議有委員黃國昌等13人提出質詢委員莊瑞雄等5人提出書面質詢決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2062.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2073.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
待會在場三個,我們待會確定那我們接著來介紹到場的委員跟應邀列席的官員首先介紹,這是我的基本卡,王一川委員我們來介紹一下今天列席的監察院理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2086.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2099.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
行政院人事行政總處蘇俊榮人事長還有考試院劉建新秘書長法務部鄭明謙正部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2104.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2131.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
其餘沒有介紹的那些代表我們就請參院名單我們就不再主移來介紹並列入公報記錄那本次議程中的報告事項有七案討論事項三十一案分別是監察院主管跟行政院人事行政總署跟所屬的一個主管還有考試院跟所屬主管跟法務部所屬主管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2131.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2155.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
預算的一個解凍案那這個會議的程序按照本會處理預算解凍案的一個慣例我們會先請機關代表針對預算的解凍案來一併做報告詢問的時候我們才綜合詢問詢問完畢以後我們再按照議程的報告事項跟討論事項依序按機關來進行處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2159.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2169.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那我們現在來進行報告那每位法院我們請監察院秘書長我們李金玉秘書長來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2175.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2189.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席各位委員 各位女士 各位先生感謝48委員會 招委還有所有的委員讓我們今天來報告114年預算解凍的情況那其實相對的監察院的預算解凍比較單純因為我們大部分是被刪除的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2190.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2194.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那預算解凍只有兩項一項是統三項目統動項目我們編載這個財產申報處的業務費用總共468萬那現在的影響就是這468萬被凍結以後我們所有的廉政專刊就沒有辦法印所以我們現在只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2211.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2225.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
上網公告但是大家要查的話必須到我們監察院去查所以我們希望這個可以趕快解凍解凍完以後我們可以把廉政專刊依照法定規定來印出來那第二個部分是營建工程550萬是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2227.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2244.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們監察院是一個國定古蹟所以我們每年分年分區會做一個維修那我們每年也利用維修的時候檢視看看我們的線路是不是過於老舊那如果更新線路的話會有助於我們的節約能源那所以過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2245.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2249.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
特別是在113年我們因為這樣陸陸續續的減修電路的話我們在113年總共節省了15萬度的電所以我們的營建工程550萬這個也是被凍結的我們希望在這個古蹟整修的時候可以同時來處理這個管線線路的問題這是營建工程550萬所以監察院的部分預算解凍的部分只有兩條一條是財產申報處的468萬這個是要印廉政專刊用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2274.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2282.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一個是營建工程我們希望更新線路所以希望貴會能夠幫助我們來預算解凍以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝我們李俊英秘書長的報告接下來我們請任總任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2296.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2323.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生、大家早大院審查114年度中央政府總預算有關本總署暨首屬機構稅出部分通過結議預算凍結項目暨有7個案子那總署已分別於114年4月24日、5月1日、2月2日還有5月2日含送大院共有15份的書面報告以下緊究凍結案簡要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2325.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2332.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
為了強化公務人員執行職務的安全與衛生防護規範總署積極與保訓會研議研議過程也邀請警消等基層團體討論已經在公務人員保障法徵修機關違反公務人員安慰辦法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2343.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2358.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
罰款處罰 以及在安慰辦法 增訂相關的監督檢查與苛責機制 那考試院也同時在這個月的5月6號將保障法修正草案 含送大院審議安慰辦法草案 目前也 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2359.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2381.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
正在會選行政院另外在精進勤修新制的部分已經在114年2月3號在總署網站勤修新制專期公告113年勤修管理的實地訪視報告114年根系辦理實地訪視及召開座談會訪視報告將以今年的下半年公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2382.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2409.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那有關本總處資訊預算編列專案採購部分因本總處負責全國人事業務目前已提供40多個全國各機關人事業務所需的資訊系統系統必須因應法規修訂政策推動及個人事單位建議辦理功能徵修另外因應薪資上漲及資通安全強化等因素何時來編列所有的預算經以遵截預算節省公帑來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2410.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2434.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
另外總署已經研擬經公教人員大意調整條例的草案依法治作業規定完成相關評估送行政院或續將依程序送請大院審議在行政院模範公務人員臨選機制方面總署已經以113年10月4日修正要點增訂不得參與選拔的消極條件同時以今年2月26號修正要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2435.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2447.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
增訂撤銷及匯值獲獎資格相關規定持續完備要點相關規定那總數以今年度的業務預算1億1772萬5千元凍結30%如未能技術易以解凍將影響全國各機關及公教人事資訊業務的推動永續公務人才的一個培育 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2460.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2485.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
另外總署會與北東大樓管理會除了支付水電費外 上有設施的維護及太儲如果沒有辦法解凍 將影響我們整體的辦公環境安全及大樓維營的永續那總署及首署機構各項施政計畫 系配合國家政策發展實為業務實際需要 懇請各位委員支持並同意解凍 必力各項業務推動 以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2486.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2492.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 謝謝任社長 那請問人種所屬機關有沒有補充報告沒有 沒有 好 謝謝那我們接下來請考試院秘書長劉建新秘書長來報告請一併就所屬主管預算凍結的項目來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2511.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2533.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
主席各位委員 女士先生 大家早安感謝貴委員安排審查考試院及所屬114年度的預算解凍項目有關考試院部分的預算解凍案 相關的決議包含業務費30%第一幕一般行政100萬 第三幕的法治業務4萬1000元還有第四幕的施政業務及督導 兩案分別是20%跟75萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2535.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2554.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
相關專案的報告跟書面報告我們都已經在4月22號送到貴院來審議針對委員先進門所關心的這些稅出項目包含我們老舊空調設備的汰換資訊系統的建置跟維護還有會議語音系統的採購等等我們都已經在報告中詳細說明編列的必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2555.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2570.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
此外 貴院委員高度關切的公部門職場霸凌的法制化這也是本院周洪憲院長在就職時候所宣示的重要工作就在上個禮拜5月6號本院已經依照先前承諾將保障法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2570.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2589.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
跟考機法第十二條修正草案函送貴院審議也把這個安慰辦法修正草案函請行政院會嫌後續將依程序送請貴院備查那如果能夠順利完成法治作業的話將可以完善公部門職場霸凌的法治規範並且達到有效的防治 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2590.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2615.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
至於其他在預算項目決議當中各位委員先進所關心的重要議題例如考計制度的精進、退伏基金的投資效率跟決策監督、公務人員官職等結構的分析等等我們在書面報告中都有說明考試院感謝立法院對本院業務的支持委員先進的建議與關切都是我們業務推動的動力和決策的重要參據 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2616.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2638.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那考試院一百四年度所編列的業務經費只有五千七百多萬凍結三成之後正常維運只能支應到今年九月如果無法順利解凍那後續除了影響考卷保訓政策的業務推動也不利於我們資通安全的確保同仁辦公環境的安全維護以及對同仁的照顧福利跟教育訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2639.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2659.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那致盼各位委員先進能夠同意於解凍維持本院業務順利的運作那至於本院所屬今天考選部全序部跟保訓會的首長也都在場那如果可以請他們做補充報告的話那就請他們由他們來說明那或者請各位參閱書面資料以上報告謝謝好謝謝我們劉天興秘書長那請問考試院所屬機關有沒有補充報告沒啦沒搞的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2670.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2687.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
來由於我們這個議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢尚未確定我們現在最美麗的翁小玲委員跟最帥氣的羅志強已經到現場了人數夠了上次的會議的議事錄有無錯誤跟遺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2688.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2699.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
沒有的話我們議事錄就確定那接下來我們請法務部長鄭文謙部長來報告那請一併就所屬主管預算凍結的項目來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2704.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2724.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
主席各位委員女士先生今天應邀至貴委員會就本部主管114年度預算凍結事項決議提出報告那有關大院所做預算凍結決議報告事項既有4項討論事項既有19項本部於114年4月23日將報告含送大院 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2725.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2748.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
在案其中討論事項部分 只向各位委員二要說明 敬請指教第一 民眾檢舉妨礙選舉及組織犯罪獎勵金增累原因及強化犯罪偵查手段這部分提供的一個證據跟線索是至關重要 另將加強機關教育訓練提升自主偵查能力 滾動檢討群之部件及搜報 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2749.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2772.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
二集會遊行法草案此會通過本部將請集會遊行法主管機關內政部加速修法的一個進度每位追蹤進度加並與人權大步走徒步專區網站公佈修訂的一個進度第三法務行政編列內容有詳細說明必要法務行政六百四十一萬七千元系辦理律師考試錄取人事參訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2774.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2800.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
人員參訊 因應亞太防治洗錢族第四輪消費評鑑向民眾推廣法治交易僅屬必要的業務那本部第四案本部編列參與國際組織或會議經會為台灣國際司法地位為因此提升部分因為近年成果包括成功押解外逃通緝犯跨國引渡及聽證並守自於美方 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2802.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2820.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
資產分享等 展現臺灣國際司法合作的成果第五案 毒品遏制與源頭檢測措施部分本部將持續折騰 抬高檢數 要求各企圖單位加強毒品的查緝將犯案毒品類為安居企圖上的查緝重點第六案 AI |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2822.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2851.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
AI智慧輔助系統警二家地檢署事辦未見成效這一案新世代智慧檢查AI科技計畫擴大至台北地檢署新北地檢14年度規劃統計事辦機關使用次數及滿度的調查精進本計畫第七案各監獄的假釋制度規定方面我們訂定累計處於作業預警作為實施計畫落實改善並督促工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2852.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2872.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
防範疏漏第八強化兒少保護及協助兒少矯正不當行為矯正學校透過個案轉型會議連結交易等資源協助少年出校後順利回歸社會第九案矯正機關自營產品現行展售方式先反自營商 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2873.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2902.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
附近上限持續檢視辦理成效及消費者反映來開發專用APP哪個評估第十一案預證管理的部分未杜絕類似案件發生執行擴大安檢無預警突襲的安檢強化廉政風險控管及內控機制第十一案保外就醫一致審查機制繳交一件新法第六十三條第一項規定辦理保外就醫的一致第十二案偵查不公開的提出的改善作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2903.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2931.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
最高檢已經就正常不公的部分 以從法治之外來研理改善方案 第十三 審視新冠疫情後國外旅會必要性尋找替代方案 現代科技所以提供新型代的交流模式為清理現場 更能清楚瞭解新科技在運用上的一個細節有助於建立身後的人際關係 第十四 科技科控設備的使用率目前114年1到4月的開發已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2932.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2945.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
到一一零件了超過整個一三年的整年的一個看是第四要辦理司法精神病患的設置已經配合衛福部建制進度了那配合腳踏機構根據督導相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2947.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2974.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
的為例的措施 第十六 司法監控病患集中受治的原則已經針對高風險受處分人集中來受治 第十七案 抬高監控通緝犯查詢系統未刊登部分 本部督導抬高監署 積極規劃優化及整合查詢系統第十八 調查與通緝系統未刊登部分 調查已經一一四年三月四日修正法務部調查局追緝外逃通緝犯的作為要點規範了 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2975.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2991.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
第十九案 國安犯罪防治等媒體的宣導部分調查一項秉持創新創意 育教育樂的方式以前行的易懂方式向國內宣傳二十案 調查及編列建置網路流量記錄前後端 後端分析系統經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2993.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2997.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
法務部政府長報告完畢請問法務部所屬機關有沒有補充報告沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3018.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3036.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那機關代表報告完畢相關署名報告的內容請各位來做參閱並列入公報記錄那我們現在開始來進行巡打由於今天的巡打後將接續來處理預算的一個解凍案那時候針對討論事項的個案還有討論的一個機會那本委員會我們今天的巡打時間就6分鐘得延長2分鐘那非本委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3050.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3063.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
詢問時間我們就不再延長了我們上午十點半十點三十分截止發言的一個登記現在我們請登記第一位王逸川委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3077.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3104.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
好我們請監察院秘書長還有人事行政總書人事長謝謝請李秘書長蘇人事長好在詢問兩位之前今天在場的所有的這個首長在凍結案裡頭我看到很多委員都有給一些這個要改進的意見那要補充的資料書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3106.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3127.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
譬如說像法務部,請你們改的東西非常多,要改進的東西很多那這些委員當時的建議,看起來都還蠻良善的所以請你們記得務必,這個委員給的建議,務必這個報告要好好寫,要做改進,這第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3128.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3136.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
第二個,請問監察院的李秘書長,媒體都說你現在監察院都沒有代記者,什麼委員、村盟什麼沒有郵局,有司機、有車沒有郵局,現在監察委員都停擺了嗎?有在運作嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3150.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3172.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
或是說影響很大,你們的做法有很多的調整,業務的工作量有什麼改變嗎,跟大家講一下王議員報告,自從立法院刪除預算以後,我們業務費用被刪了96%所以我們現在很多費用是由監委自行出資,包括我們的郵費 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3176.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3197.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
真的啦 保險費 這都自己出錢另外我們堅持的原則就是憲法跟法律賦予我們的職責我們還是要做所以我們繼續繼續在這個艱苦的環境下我們希望維持這個監察院的順利運作那到目前為止我們的案量並沒有減少好 那第二請教一下財產申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3199.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3207.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
因為我前一陣子因為他想不去用台,所以我就用網路用自然人憑證炒菜就炒菜 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3209.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3235.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那現在也是這樣嗎現在還是要改手寫還是怎樣現在有困難因為監察院的這個所謂的所有的資訊系統都擺在我們的一般行政業務費用裡面那一般行政的業務費用全部被刪除所以我們現在維護系統有困難那如果現在財產申報的話恐怕要手動一本一本去刷簿子一本一本一筆那有可能啦阿不然我們現在的系統就沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3237.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3253.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那你怎麼報給法局?我也沒辦法,我也沒希望,現實上最困難的其實是法務部跟司法院他們現在就開始在申報了,所以他們現在叫苦連天那我們真的愛莫能助,因為預算被砍掉啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3253.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3258.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
你像我自己以前有做工讀生,去一間公司就叫我去開一個戶,薪水就放在裡面當然錢不多啦,可是我可能會漏報,當然這個錢太少啦,你如果不會怎麼樣啦可能裡面存幾萬塊、幾千塊在裡面,有時候有些數量很小,可是因為有這個系統啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3280.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3294.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
大家很方便嘛我查下去之後政府跟我說我對不起我哪裡有什麼東西很清楚我跟王議員報告大家住的情形都一樣其實本來用自然人憑證插進去你哪裡戶頭有多少錢都非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3295.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3304.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那像我這樣常常調動植物的人我的帳戶很多我自己都不記得你也不知道那個存摺是...存摺到底在哪裡 我要存在哪裡 我都不知道過去就自然而然就可以解決我們一筆一筆去聯絡各個銀行那現在因為這個系統的預算被刪除所以我們現在沒有辦法做維護的費用所以現在這個系統是停擺大家必須用手動去一筆一筆報 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3322.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3332.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以你們現在這個預算是被刪除的,也不是凍結的?也不是凍結所以現在來的各個必須申報財產,有些要年度申報的,有些有異動要申報的就要手工來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3337.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3353.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
OK 好那接下來我請問一下人事總署的這個我們人事長因為我們今天就是說這個立院如果五六月把這個案子解掉了比如說各部會案子解掉那因為裡面有一些預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3354.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3383.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
有一些預算是裡面跟人有關的他的計算可能是人月譬如說各單位可能有一些委託研究計畫有一些委託學術機關委託大學教授那他可能當時裡面有編這個這個行政助理啦 研究生啦那他現在這個計畫如果在年底一定要執行完畢那顯然他現在能夠用的費用可能只剩6個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3385.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3395.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那你們在接下來進行相關的委託計畫這些招標的過程會不會就把這些預算給砍了那解凍的金額你還是用不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3397.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3424.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
謝謝委員這個問題大概分兩個部分一個是以前業的部分以前業的部分大概把那個預算凍結這我們直接就把這個人力的需求直接就降低那另外一種情況可能是在解凍之後我們6月開始簽如果這個計畫是到年底為止的話我們在人事會的本來是使用12個月我們會把它收為7個月就是在人力的那種費用上面就是按照他服務的業數來去估算 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3426.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3454.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
嗯那如果說是這個還沒圈的就減少啦那如果還沒圈的就減少好了人事總署有沒有去統計過啊像這一種比如說大學的研究生他們因為這個預算凍結嘛學校老師的研究金會變少了嘛他可能前面這幾個月啊老師說你不用來啊我沒可能一個月給你顧六千因為本來有編八千啊一萬每個月那現在這種狀況啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3456.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3471.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
因為剛開始談這個凍結談預算審查的時候聽說學校哀鴻遍野很多學校的老師就跟研究生說我沒辦法跟你搶這個單位應該是這個數字有沒有一個大概的波及的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3473.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3490.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那個委員報告,那委員會計較這部分大概以教育部到國科會這種情況會比較多啦那公務機關基本上這種問題碰到的會比較少因為剛才說的,好好裡面一開始,你有些是擺專案的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3491.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3516.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
阿有些是我用業務會去聘一些研究助理或者業用人員嘛阿他的進展委員會就自己再訂上有可能的就是減聘啦減聘這個人數啦阿現在如果經費解凍以後他們會針對業務的需要性怕不怕有這個需要他可以去請教但是那個聘期本身就看六月開始就存請各位請各位開始就存啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3521.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3546.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
可能跟這個主計總署啊 帶回去一下因為這個可能各單位都有一個依詢嘛 尤其就是說之前沒聘的這些研究生啊 這些走歷 這些就相關用業務費支應的這個總是要有一個依據啦 也就是依據的說一個指引各單位在編這個錢的時候 大家知道原來我們可以把它補回來 或者是可以延伸 或者是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3547.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3569.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
不然各單位啊 我知道很多公務同仁啊現在開始我們這裡解凍過後 去到他們手裡的時候他還是問他單位的財主人員說 啊這個到底被弄掉那六個月啊 現在到底怎麼補回來所以待會去院裡頭 請這個主計總處給大家一個指引啦就是說以後這種費用 接下來這幾個月要怎麼處理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3570.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3586.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
好 我就同意跟主席總署 我們跟他訂出一個概賴出來讓大家來有一個共同的標準依詢好 謝謝好 謝謝韋好 謝謝王一川委員接下來請黃國昌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3605.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3613.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
謝謝主席 事事麻煩有請法務部部長最高檢察署刑檢察總長以及高等檢察署張檢察長請鄭部長還有我們刑檢察總長高檢署 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3640.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3654.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
三位早 時間的關係不亦問候過去在2017年世改國是會議的時候做成一個非常重要的決議嚴肅的追究違反偵查不公開的責任因為長期以來偵查不公開變成偵查亂公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3662.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3669.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
在2017年世凱國事會議以後我們本來期待這樣的亂象可以獲得改善結果沒想到是越來越誇張了 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3671.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3687.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
在今天法務部所提出的解凍報告當中針對最高檢察署已經就偵查不公開的亂象就違反偵查不公開的個案有督導該一二審檢察署確實查明來請檢察總長跟高檢署的張檢察長兩位來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3694.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3702.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
你們說就目前違反偵查不公開的個案有督導該一二審檢察署確實查明那目前的進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3708.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3724.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
沒關係啊 看是要檢察總長回答還是檢察長回答因為有時候你們的權責到底是怎麼劃分的在相關的作業辦法裡面說最高檢察總長也好上級檢察署的檢察長也好都有這個職責要依照職權來查明嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3725.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3740.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那有的時候你們在這邊回答的時候皮球踢來踢去我也不曉得到底是誰負責啦今天竟然在書面報告裡面說針對違反偵查不公開的個案有督導一二審檢察署確實查明嗎那現在確實查明的進度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3742.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3768.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
報告委員這一部分我們台高軍署非常的重視依照法務部以及最高檢察署的一個指示除了召開多次的會議以及舉行的相關這個座談會之外我們要求我們所屬的地檢署務必依照我們目前的那個政策不公開的相關的一個規定來去注意的落實至於相關的具體的數據資料我們會後是不是在那個在送那委員這邊參考講具體的啦來 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3771.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3790.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
之前啊就有記者說經營減掉至少7年嘛消息來源200%正確嘛這應該是有包括在你們今天所提出來的書面報告針對個案有要求一二審確實查明那上一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3791.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3818.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我在質詢的時候我提出來的重點是北檢洩密結果自己查自己自己發新聞稿當天傳喚當天就發新聞稿說絕對沒有這樣子的事情請外界不要再用臆測的方式無端指責這個個案我上一次請教部長的時候部長說沒有簽結現在還在偵辦當中目前偵辦的進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3820.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3846.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
跟委員報告 目前還在偵辦中 還沒有簽結目前還在偵辦中 來 請高檢署這個算是你們督導的範圍嗎是我們督導的範圍我們一般檢察官辦案的期限多長一般是八個月一般八個月 這個案子超過八個月沒有應該是還沒有應該是還沒有我們具體 經濟等接下來的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3848.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3864.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
社會大眾對於這種亂象大家是深惡痛絕結果看到北檢自己發新聞稿說沒有這樣子的事情結果北檢自己查自己現在還是繼續北檢自己查自己嗎還是高檢署有下去督導 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3866.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3881.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
報告委員 因為這屬於個案的偵查 那是屬我們的地檢署的一個偵辦的一個範圍那我們太高檢署 不用行政 我們會來去持續來去多到了解好 分兩個部分嘛 刑事偵查的部分交由個案的檢察官偵辦 這沒有問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3883.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3911.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
下一個問題那你說就行政的部分高檢署要持續了解現在了解的進度如何這部分我們進行相關的了解因為這部分有關於刑事的一個偵查的個案偵查的一個結果我們目前還不知道那等到偵查的結果出來的話當然我們就會依照偵查的結果啟動相關的行政所以要等到偵查的結果出來了以後才會啟動行政程序對因為這一般是先偵查後面才去行政的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3911.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3925.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
因為現在社會大眾非常的困惑北檢說他們自己沒有洩密但很奇怪在偵查的期間當中這些資料基本上就只有檢察官才有 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3927.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3950.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
辯護連月卷都沒有辦法月在這樣的情況之下這些偵查當中的秘密怎麼洩漏出去的到目前為止沒有給社會大眾一個清楚的交代那既然說還在偵辦當中還沒有結案那我們就拭目以待看這個案子要拖多久接下來第二個問題我之前有請教過部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3951.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3974.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
為什麼我們的共諜案在偵辦的期間當中結果總統府在具體無上語之前就知道了提前一天解除他的職務那個時候部長不斷的說明這個絕對沒有洩密那我的問題就來了那總統府怎麼知道的是通靈嗎來請教一下高檢署檢察長 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3976.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3982.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
針對這個案子有開始分案調查了嗎報告委員我們這部分台高監署並沒有啟動行政的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3983.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4010.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
並沒有啟動行政的調查我今天可以公開檢舉請你們啟動調查嗎這很嚴重啊在偵辦共諜的案件當中偵辦到一半結果就有人洩密洩密了以後總統府可以提前一簽解除他的職務這裡面一定有鬼嘛來請問一下高檢署的檢察長這個案子我今天我上一次在部長在這邊的時候其實我就已經公開檢舉了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4011.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4032.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
針對這樣子的事情來高檢署的檢察長你認為有沒有洩密的問題報告委員這部分台北地檢署已經分案來依法偵辦了台北地檢署有分案依法偵辦我希望好好偵辦因為這個事情大家看不懂啊大家看不懂啊為什麼總統府提前一天知道解除職務是通靈嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4036.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4055.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
一樣 我們接下來看 偵辦的結果以後 拭目以待接下來 今天在解凍第二個重要的問題是有關於棄保潛逃的問題在問棄保潛逃的問題之前 我先請教檢察官視察被告的處所應不應該要通知法院來 請檢察長報告委員 這部分我們會依照刑事訴訟法第106條的規定來去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4063.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4080.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那我現在的問題來了台北地檢署最近五年八十四次視察只有兩次通知法院而且兩次通知法院剛好都是林俊炎去醫院的時候都是林俊炎去醫院的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4081.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4109.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
他是不是在那個中間的過程當中被辯護人檢舉啦所以趕快補報法院我不願意多做揣測啊但接下來的問題是啊我請他們函附給我我請他們函附給我北檢最近84次視察只有兩次通知法院這樣有符合刑事訴訟法的規定嗎來 請教檢察長報告委員啦 這部分我們要求那個所屬的檢察署這已經不是要求不要求了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4110.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4134.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
過去84次 幾乎都沒有通知法院這有沒有違反刑事訴訟法這部分我們要求所屬的法院 檢察署 依照規定來辦理對 我現在就問你嘛你一直跟我說 你會要求所屬的檢察署依照規定來辦理那現在的問題是 他們有依照規定在辦理嗎顯然沒有嘛我有沒有說錯 檢察長目前好像是沒有徹底的落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4136.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4163.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
您講話還蠻有藝術的所以目前沒有徹底的落實你看連昭緯都在笑了除了林俊元去醫院那兩次其他通通都沒有通知法院是絕大多數都沒有按照規定來處理針對這樣明顯違反刑事訴訟法的狀況高檢署打算怎麼處理既往不咎之前違反就違反了沒有關係我們之後大家不要這樣幹就可以了是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4166.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4182.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
報告委員 這部分我們台高建署會通案要求我們所屬檢察署來落實來去辦理好來 接下來 撮文字 落跑的事情我現在在政策面上面 再請教一下部長法務部 贊不贊成訂氣保檢討罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4186.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4213.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
這部分我們有提出法案現在那個行政已經審訊了所以政策立場上面是贊成的嗎是贊成那行政院審訊的條文什麼時候會提出來即將要送那個院會來所以還沒有送院會來處理嗎上次那個委員有詢問的時候那個有行政有承諾就是說明天啊我現在直接跟部長講明天就要處理了到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4214.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4236.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們都還沒有看到法務部具體條文的建議希望法務部把握時間盡快把它提出來因為這件事情我們不是最近才問從去年就開始問了一路問到今年在委員會審查的時候在黨團協商的時候請法務部提出條文來一直都不願意提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4237.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4260.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
明天就要處理啦我希望法務部啊能夠把握機會把你們建議的條文啊趕快提出來來最後請請檢察總長最後一個問題就好了中文字的案子啊最高檢察署之前有發新聞稿說這件事情嘛你們非常的重視要立案調查目前調查的結果如何來請檢察總長 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4269.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4296.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那個委員是指哪一方面來請看一下最高檢察署新聞稿你是指哪一方面的調查人為什麼把他放掉為什麼檢察官沒有在這個過程當中表達意見這個台北地檢署跟台高檢署分別在進行調查那至於那個鍾先生的逃亡現在台北地檢署也在偵辦中來請一下高檢署 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4297.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4316.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
剛剛檢查總長說高檢署也有在進行調查嗎報告委員我們台高檢署分調案進行相關的一個調查什麼時候分調案進行調查的已經從案發之後我們就分調案來進行調查還需要多久應該在這個月有機會我們會去調查完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4319.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4340.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這個月嘛對 這個月高檢署進行的是行政調查吧對 高檢署是行政調查不是刑事調查嗎不是 這是台北地檢署目前正在沒有關係啊 刑事調查的部分我們尊重啊刑事調查的部分我們尊重啊行政調查的部分這個月完成了以後是不是可以把調查報告給本委員會的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4342.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4365.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這部分我們如果調查報告的話那個依照相關的規定我們也會送到委員會來送到委員會來因為這些我今天質詢的案子都是社會大眾關心有重大的公益性但到目前為止都沒有給國人一個合理的交代希望高檢署這個月完成了行政調查報告了以後送到本委員會來好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4367.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4374.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
謝謝黃國昌委員接下來我們有請吳宗憲委員質詢謝謝主席那我們麻煩請部長還有檢察總長還有調局局長請鄭部長 新檢察總長還有程局長你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4400.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4404.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
你感冒,感冒可以給你檢測,少問兩分鐘沒關係謝謝你的好意 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4409.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4429.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
好三位早我想請問一下就是你們這次解凍的部分那因為我之前一直有在詢問那個AI解凍的專案報告那我想請問一下因為我看到這次法務部的報告他並沒有一個你們這個沒有使用的數據啊那因為過去三年總共花了3169萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4432.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4440.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那該不會也有要求說要有那個滿意滿意度的報告那我現在我都沒有看到我想請問一下你們有沒有準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4442.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4469.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那個跟委員報告好那因為114年新世代智慧檢查AI的科技計畫現在目前在招標中所以第一季我們沒辦法還沒辦法提供這個數據因為你們這次的報告齁它只有在第三頁第三頁裡面只有半頁嘛但是已經花了三千它是花三千多萬的計畫所以我要了解一下它的滿意度到底是怎麼樣還有它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4471.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4492.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
你只有說成功率是多少但是你並沒有告訴我大家使用的比例是多高我想這個也很重要因為我聽到很多檢察官說他覺得這不好用都不想用那當然我可以了解一個新的系統剛開始一定使用率不高但是你們有沒有去研究一下要怎麼樣讓檢察官使用率能夠變高謝謝韋瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4495.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4522.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那這部分那個剛才委員關心的就是使用次數就使用率跟那個滿意度的這部分我們會做調查當然因為上一次是上一次是一個輔助系統那個比較不滿意大家的反應當然就委員有講的還要可以在優化的地方所以這一次的我們一個科技計畫就是在優化這樣處理那目前就是在研發的一個階段在招標研發導入人工智慧協助檢察官辦案或製作書類我絕對是 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4523.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4550.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
完全支持的但是數據上面要給我那我們在預算上面我們當然只要是好的東西對檢查系統好的我一定都會支持啦但你數據給我那我們研究一下沒有問題我們這邊一定是一定會配合配合這個法務部的這個要求好嗎好謝謝 麻煩部長數據要給我好那這樣我請教一下那個因為總長很難得來嘛那我幫人民詢問總長還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4551.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4574.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
局長幾個問題因為立法院的委員對於所謂的偵查不公開的範圍他們從來沒有研究偵查不公開作業辦法他都搞不懂所以我們在這裡很常遇到委員動不動說你幹嘛干涉個案你幹嘛破壞偵查不公開我想我也懶得跟這些委員去從法制面去討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4576.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4592.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那我請教一下就是總長因為最近我們發現有檢察官他在偵辦個案的時候我們不談哪個地檢我們不談個案他把跟本案無關的證物一起帶回了而且是用扣押的方式帶回我先跟總統報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4594.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4613.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我自己在辦偵查案件的時候如果有一個東西我覺得奇怪但是他跟本案無關也不是違禁品也不是另案因扣押之物我絕對不會扣押我會請他帶著來跟我製作筆錄的時候問他這個東西是怎麼回事這是實務的做法我想總長一定很清楚但是我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4614.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4639.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我們發現有檢察官把非本案的證物也不是違禁品也不是另案的證物把它扣回去了那這個跟我國的扣押制度完全不符但是到目前為止他都沒有給我們一個合理的說法那請問總長您認為我剛講的本案因扣押的證物他因扣押的證物違禁品或因沒收之物這四種以外請問總長還有其他的扣押目的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4650.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4669.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
據我們了解他這個案子這個宜蘭地緣署已經發表新聞稿了就是說他們是依照法院核發的不不不 他沒有在搜索票內啊你不能在扯法院核發如果說有一些其他的物品他們也依規定來發款的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4671.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4684.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
因為...好 總長沒關係喔 但是我在這邊跟總統報告一下喔就是說可能總統是不是在跟其他檢察官說明一件事就我剛剛講那四種得扣押之外都屬於不得扣押之物 這是人民的權益嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4686.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4706.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
尤其你第一時間還出來發新聞稿說說沒有這件事就那天我是說那天晚上我電話被打爆了就是說東西沒有該怎麼辦事實上那個跟本案完全無關那當天局長也有說啊這個東西不應該出現在現場所以檢察官扣回去了解這個也不是屬於扣押得扣押的理由我們在這邊依法論法 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4707.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4730.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
不能出現在現場的除非是違禁物你才可以扣回一份合法的公文不管目的是什麼不能扣回那我也跟局長報告以前實務的做法一定是請他帶著當事人帶在身上來做筆錄的時候說明說明完我們覺得合理我們就不會有任何做法這才是目前實務的作風而不是扣回去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4731.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4754.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
然後又然後後來解封發還又不知道有沒有進行合理的程序這是請那個總長因為您是檢察官的大家長教育訓練麻煩要做到不要製造大家的困擾然後再來我那天有提到一個東西啦就是其實我那天有談到就是有幾位部長還有總統府副秘 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4755.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4782.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
他們可能有涉犯刑法那個選罷法104條的案子那我不知道局長你們那邊我那天說告發不知道局長那邊有沒有動作包委員在上次會議的時候有指示那我們有現在目前正在收集這個相關的資料我也進到一個國人的義務那我這邊也在整理會診相關的資料我覺得可以提供那請我去做筆錄也可以所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4783.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4800.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我想這是一個我現在講雖然說有人認為我在破壞司法違信但是其實我在拯救司法違信因為司法的平等原則以及司法獨立中立信以及一致信是我們法律人在追求的如果你今天的所作所為 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4802.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4818.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
美麗島民調出來的那個數字不好看啊然後在最近也有很多訪問我有看了他們對於司法的中立性其實都打出問號的時候這時候我們更希望說有所補救來去讓人民能夠繼續的信任司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4819.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4841.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以我再麻煩局長這部分該辦的還是要辦而且這幾位部長他們說的東西像譬如說洪森漢後來他也有來講說是口誤可是你要知道我現在在路上遇到那個霸團拿著麥克風在那邊高喊的他們引用就是這些部長說出來自稱口誤或什麼自稱是我引述的是去年12月的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4843.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4872.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這些霸團在引用這個我不忍對那些霸團自稱為公民團體那些民眾我不忍去苛責他們因為他們就是聽這些部長那邊鬼扯蛋亂說話之後的東西拿出來講但是對於這些部長們該究責還是究責因為司法面前人人平等啊我們不分貧富貴賤啊該辦的就是要辦然後我也請問一下那這段時間像一百零那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4874.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4881.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我做違反104條這個齁 這假訊息的部分你們是不是也會用選舉查查來核分 如果有查辦的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4883.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4911.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
如果是跟那個選舉罷免有關的話我們都是在這個選舉查查的因為上次你有跟我講112年之後用的那一套核分制度每次在選舉的時候都會那其實謝國良他罷免案其實也應該是使用那個112年成立的新的制度但是你們沒有用所以你們沒有這麼做而且那天有跟委員報告你講的這一案當時沒有案地檢署沒有發查 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4912.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4939.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
不是啦 這就更奇怪您在視訊會議這次有要求大家要趕快去辦這次的幽靈連署但是在謝國良那個案子 您當時又沒有人叫全國的調查官要這麼做所以這個就是司法給人家感覺的另外一個雙標所以我覺得司法就是前後沒有一致啦所以現在讓我一個感覺就是罷綠的就是槍斃 罷藍的都不斃 都沒事啦現在給我一個感覺 不會有這種狀況我們不分藍綠 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4942.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4961.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
最近還有發生一件事情跟局長跟總長報告就是現在又有人在談那個簡訊的問題有很多地方都收到很多簡訊說請大家去罷免連署那這個部分請問你們有沒有開始去調查因為人民開始在質疑了那我不知道兩位有沒有在調查好吧那沒有的話那我想跟各位報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4969.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4995.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
雖然電信業者說這個是供企業商務使用但是什麼時候變成拿來可以做政治聯署使用這個企業上面要不要處罰NCC也不見了所以這是我一直覺得還是做任何事情都雙標然後那這些民眾他的資訊他的個資被拿去這樣使用你們有沒有去調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4996.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5018.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那有沒有用選舉查查來合分我不知道你們有沒有這麼做然後另外其實最近有很多人討論到霸統為什麼這麼有錢可以在有線電視花三分鐘四分鐘去拍播放一個廣告可以到處霸免戰到處什麼LED的車子然後到處激發這些傳單錢從哪裡來這也是國人的一個問號嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5025.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5041.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那會不會是境外勢力送來的錢這個也是我們擔心的那尤其是罷免對國家安全是有影響的啊對整個社會的安定是有影響那為什麼好像也都不當一回事這個就是我個人覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5044.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5056.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這就是一個雙標嘛那我不管怎麼樣我個性我就是忠於這個國家我不忠於任何一個政黨國家一定是放在我所屬的政黨之前我忠於這個國家所以是不是麻煩總長局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5059.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5088.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
你們也要去查辦這個啊 至少你要告訴國人沒有違反個資法嘛你要有一個結論出來也可以 但是不能不查嘛那104條那個也要麻煩你們真的都要做到啦 不能很多事情遇到立場不同 狀況就不一樣那現在喔 因為新北 雙河 新店板橋 淡水還有平鎮 龍潭 台中都有收到這個簡訊這不是沒有 這是一件已經存在的事實 好不好這部分麻煩你們一定要做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5090.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5110.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
然後最後我還是要再提醒一個啦一階的連署根本沒有違反選舉罷免法很多人講翁小林委員立了一個法砸自己的腳那個是對於法律完全不理解因為一階就沒有選罷法98之二的適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5113.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5140.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
所以在沒有選罷法適用的情況下你們用選舉查核分這就是我原本不理解的一個地方第二個跟選舉有關的好像像你說不實訊息這幾位部長發布的不實訊息然後在罷免的活動上面這樣講這反而跟選罷法有關呢卻沒有人管再來局長你也知道您是國安站出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5141.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5164.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
資安等於國安那這些簡訊為什麼可以這樣發這個有沒有資安上的問題這應該是調查局非常重視的一件事啊那也都沒有查那我點出這東西其實我一直在講啦我就包括總長我也跟您報告不要說我在傷害司法的威信我是在我是希望能夠維護司法的尊嚴維護司法的威信 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5166.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5188.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
司法的平等原則這個是最基本的所以當你在辦這一群人的時候大家質疑說為什麼只辦這一群人那是不是我們可以努力再平衡一下那當我提出事實的時候反而是說我在破壞司法維新為什麼點出事實人士在破壞司法維新因為我今天喉嚨比較沒聲音那我就質詢到這邊謝謝吳宗憲委員你敢不敢講兩句就算假講 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5194.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5208.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
因為境外勢力確實可以好好查一查查出來的結果跟你想像的不一樣好 請回那接下來請審發會委員質詢王一川你來代理要給他頭酸了 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5228.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5255.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
主席各位同仁我們今天本委會安排了要處理這個114年度中央政府總預算有關監察院、行政院、人事行政總署還有考試院、法務部所屬主管機關的這些相關的預算凍結案件我們要來進行討論跟處理這樣子我們就看到說在去年的預算審查過程中我們今天只找四個單位來 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5257.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5274.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們這個預算凍結案就高達39案,總共加起來監察院1案、人事行政總署7案、考試院8案、法務部23案,加起來39案39案只有6加2,8分鐘的時間,要討論39案實在是質短情長 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5282.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5305.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以我們沒有辦法一個一個來討論今天我們非常難得監察院的李秘書長還有考試院的劉秘書長來到立法院來到我們司法法治委員會但是很抱歉,今天沒有辦法讓你們上台沒有時間,39案討論不到你們的案子現在主流,我是不是先請調查局的陳局長好,請陳局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5318.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5344.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
委員好區長好很抱歉我們今天今天這個這個有39案但是我個人39案裡面有一個案子我個人特別關心因為這個從立法開始就是我們這個司法法治委員會這樣子過程到你們編列預算到他被凍結到現在要看看能不能執行這正好是我們屬於調查局的預算所以今天就請陳局長上來跟陳局長請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5349.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5366.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這個我們就是我們本委員會在這個去年7月31號我們總統公布有關通訊保障監察法是去年7月我們本委員通過總統公告的,公告實施的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5367.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5394.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
統計保障監察法裡面的第十四支一條第十四支一條裡面有關於這個相關有關網路流量的這個記錄這些系統第十四支一條的第六項裡面有法源的依據網路流量系統的這個設置方式保存方式保存期間查詢作業程序調取的項目監督廢額及其他相關事項辦法由法務部會同內政部並 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5395.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5418.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
會商這個國家通訊傳播委員會相關機關定資也就是說這個是法源依據有關於為我們現在要執行網路流量紀錄的相關的這些作業這個是現在目前是有法源對法源依據有法源依據但是有法源依據我們必須要有後製後續的這些這些這個預算對你要你要這個相關的設備你要設置 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5419.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5434.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
不是說我有一個法說我要保留這些網路流量記錄結果我不用設備就可以保留嗎所以接下來我們就是應該法源通過有法源依據之後我們就應該要盡速的編列跟設置相關設備的這些經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5436.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5450.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那這一次的法務部的這些凍結案裡面我看到我們的書面報告的第20案尤其是我們近日網路的犯罪可以說是它不像傳統的這些犯罪形態 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5453.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5472.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
本來要怎麼樣偵辦這些網路犯罪它就是一個重大挑戰所以在這個重大挑戰裡面這些相關的經費我個人認為是相當的重要啦那這樣的經費被凍結被刪除我個人都認為說我們大家每一個委員不分黨派都在這裡講喊要打炸要打炸我們也大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5473.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5486.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
在很短的時間內很高度的公司通過打炸釋法通訊檢查法給了法源依據但是在設置相關設備的時候預算編出來就把有的就砍掉了刪除了有的就給它凍結了像今天我要討論這個就是凍結的那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5490.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5517.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我知道這個有一筆我剛剛講的第二十案它是由我們調查局來主管但是它整個我看這整個它是在一個大計畫大計畫在網路科技運用精進計畫這個計畫不是我們調查局主政的是警政署主政的一個大的網路科技運用精進計畫裡面很小一部分由我們調查局這邊來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5519.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5540.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那整個這個我看這個原本的這個預算齁整個整個計劃的預算裡面這個我們調查局今年本來是編5億零4百萬最早整個計劃當時你們提報的建設費用是到12億的最早是12億8千3百萬對不對 但是分年分年 對分年 對但是整個總計劃原本是12億但是後來我們因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5546.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5563.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們為什麼後來在最後計畫核定之後降到8億是吧對是後來降成8億最主要原因是什麼因為其實整個就是設備啦還有這個技術等等的投資啦那我們也就是說盡量跟這個原先跟外部機關大家共用啦對不對原本想投資的設備後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5566.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5582.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
大家共用的一些設備所以你們自己其實在這個計畫從12億從12億8300萬你們在正式合訂的時候其實你們已經調降了調到最小的8億了啦那8億裡面你們分年執行今年這個今年114年度的預算是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5583.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5597.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
本來是編5億零4百萬5億零4百萬統三的時候其實這一筆預算其實統三的時候已經被刪了3944.8萬了統三的時候剩下4億6455萬對不對對然後又被動了2500對所以我們今天要處理這2500嘛那這整個建制我覺得這個大家都在講說這個這個要打詐啦這個網路犯罪啦嚴重啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5610.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5626.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
但是我們要建制的預算卻把我們凍結了我現在最重要的就是說我們現在整個八億的部分到底是要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5627.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5657.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們這個主要就是這個整個計劃是前端是警政署建置的所以是包括他是把所有三大電信業者的這些網路的這些資訊流量全部通通都儲存起來那我們後端就是去抓那個資料來我們後端這邊來做分析那這個分析會可以讓我們得到什麼得到比如說我們現在有很多這個網路的犯罪他的IP的位置是在哪裡然後如果是不同的IP的話他有沒有勾連到相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5657.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5684.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
所以這個後端的這些整個是由警政署做但後端的不只我們法務部調查局要做後端分成兩部分警政署它也有做後端的分析調查局也有做後端的分析那我們就是只取後端的分析那一小部分出來做而已所以我們這個後端這個主要就是但這個部分我看到說你們事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5685.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5698.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
是不是原本有關電我看到你們有一個電信網路流量記錄系統的一個概念驗證事實上已經發包執行對這個部分不包括在這個預算裡面這個沒有這個等於就是有點像這個工程的這個前期的這個設計規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5706.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5723.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
你們招標的預算是1790萬那個已經執行掉了我們一定要先做一個概念驗證看看我們這樣子想的到底實際上能不能做得到那這個概念驗證已經告訴我們說這個是可以做到那這次的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5725.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5738.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這個我們跟之前採購的我們這個具體內容它效益有沒有重複投資有沒有資源浪費就是我們過去已經執行跟中華電信執行過了沒有那後續的這些是不是你除了中華電信以外你還有其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5739.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5764.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這些電信系統業者我們也要進行這樣的相關驗證嗎不用我們這個系統最主要是要剛剛你有提到強調就是它有關這些網路行為的這些關聯分析有關一些多重事件的比對大概就是這些資安事件的追查還有這些假訊息、認知作戰還有這些最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5765.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5791.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
使用這個VPN的這種匿蹤工具你剛剛講說要查出他的IP位置這些相關都是用這筆預算嘛對不對那這些這個系統建置以後我們預期有哪些類型的案件有沒有評估過我們能夠如何提升我們這個只要是在網路上他整個犯罪的過程有經過網路了其實在這一個後端的分析系統都是一個很強的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5792.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5801.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這個部分我是希望說等一下我們如果說進入預算解凍的階段這個大家每一個部分黨派來上來都說要打炸要打炸 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5802.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5827.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那我們也通過了這些法源依據也都給了但圖有法源依據你沒有這些相關的不給經費沒有相關的這些設備來執行這個網路流量這個未來這等於是大家都嘴巴講空話所以我希望說等一下在這個預算解凍的時候這個部分大家能夠讓這個相關的這些治安機關能夠順利的來執行最後我再一點點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5828.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5845.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我過去一直很關心因為這個也是跟這個案子相關啦齁我過去一直很關心我們那個2017年2017年我們思改國事會議的時候提出這個應該要設置國家級的政務保管機關啦齁那這個國家級的政務保管機關齁我們現在要做的這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5848.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5876.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這個有關網路的流量記錄的調取他的這些相關這些整合數位證據的這些監管我們要在納入我們整個我剛所講的這個國家級證據保管中心的這樣的看法之下有沒有我們有沒有制定這些相關的這些內部的資料使用的分析資料使用分析跟保存銷毀的相關流程這些相關流程的辦法我們有沒有制定 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5878.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5890.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這個就是說將來這個資料的分析這個都是要另狀主義然後這些資料取下來了以後會有一個完整的一個資料的保存的一個相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5891.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5911.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
有一些辦法要訂定啦現在是沒有的我剛講的這些資料他如何使用分析他如何保存如何銷毀這些相關的執法規定都還沒有這個部分我特別希望這些證據監管的這些技術標準 集合機制這些我們能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5912.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5925.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
能夠盡快的先制定這些相關的辦法啦那我是希望你們能夠在三個月內針對你們訂定的計畫這個你們要制定的情形提交一個書面報告來給我是 好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝省發會委員接下來請莊瑞雄委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5939.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5940.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
上個禮拜好多假日來得又急又快 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5962.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5986.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
大家都懷疑了 懷疑人家他唱歌 有人幫歌的當然也唱那針對這個新增國定假日這件事情講得更直接一點 就是說其實就剩下總統公告而已嘛對 總統公告之後 這個整個新的制度就要來上路了時間緊 那應該是挑戰也大 大家好奇就是說你們人總 你們這樣準備好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5990.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6017.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
這個要當總統三度過,我們也要再簽行政委因為這裡面以今年三個假日來講,一個是禮拜六、一個禮拜天、一個禮拜四嘛對啊,拜時的到底要不要補假,因為有的人是很不需要補假的如果可以補假,不要他們補上班啦,代表人家的期待啦像這樣的話,因為雖然也是有一天禮拜五要上班,這些細節我們還是要簽行政院啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6018.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6041.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
所以這個其實我看幾乎快定案了啦就有待總統去做一個公告但是你們該準備的還是要準備啦你像譬如說你這個這也不是明年的事情是今年你就要去實施像你提到了三個節日的問題有一個禮拜六有一個是禮拜天這個不只是公務機關啦還包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6042.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6051.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
民間的公司 學校 醫療 院所 又交通單位你們這就不怕排成調人力 調人力 甚至有預算譬如說 你剛提到那兩個會不會補放的問題或是說你會把整個連續假期你要是往前還是往後去挪 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6064.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6089.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
人總這邊其實應該是要未雨綢繆啦你自己創作好資料 讓民眾可以一清二楚簡單又明瞭 事先做一個規劃這個就是一個生活的一個秩序嘛我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣啦這我是覺得你要提早去做一個準備另外就是說 你看人總每一年大約就是在年中去公告隔年的辦公日曆啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6090.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6099.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
你每年的日曆是不是一併去做公告那你今年修正版的日曆 你當時的功課是不是跟每年的 你做回去的功課 還是要分開去做一個功課這有一個好處啦你這個喔 本來你的職長本來就是擇無旁貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6108.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6110.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
他們好好去盤點所有的配套統一規劃這樣有一個節奏清楚對外說明各單位也好 企業也好 他們也要知道要怎麼安排不然大家各自解讀 到時候又亂成一團來 任市長我給委員報告 目前今年度的規定是 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6132.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6151.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那架就是拜五寶架 你如果要拜 那架不就要拜 就是拜陰嘛那就是目前的情形 剛才委員講的那其實就是我們目前已經在作業 在規劃階段因為我們要處理的一個是 今年在總統公告之後 三讀公告之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6152.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6169.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
後來就是三個階段我們要處理,同時明年的,事實上明年的我們大概在三月份就已經炒泥好了啦但是,不然這次我們會重新整理一下,不然表應該是看六月第一天,因為委員報告,因為剛才委員說的是跟金融有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6174.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6202.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
跟教育部有關 經濟部也有關勞動部 很多部會都有關我們會先跟他們一起開會討論找出一個共識節 最大公約數啦 這樣這叫做沐浴成熟這通過後 假多了這麼多天以後放假的人一定會很開心 可是該規劃的要未雨綢繆好 好不好OK 沒問題 好 謝謝董事長請回 請我們法務部正部長還有我們矯正署署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6204.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6205.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
部長、署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6214.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6230.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
本席在去年12月諮詢過我們署長就關於整個累進廚藝的一個問題那這個會期其實我也排了很多的一個監所去做一個考察就是要了解現行累進廚藝的一個機制的一個問題所以今天我來繼續追蹤我一直都認為說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6237.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6250.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
案件一發生尤其是刑事犯罪發生以後社會常常是軒然大波但是等到這個法案判決確定以後我想這是已經到一個段落那是另外一個階段的一個開始也就是說我一直都認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6252.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6275.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
你犯罪者你受到應有的應報 應有的處罰 法案的一個判決這個其實都很合理啊 可是呢 當他成為一個受刑人到監獄去以後啊監獄應該就不是一個人性的一個終點反而他是一個救贖的一個起跑線那應該連續一個多年嘛所以呢 怎樣去構築更安全的一個社會安全網 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6276.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6278.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
不要說這些社會亂亂的了 選舉一個軒然大波你亂社會 國家給你硬爆 給你處罰 這合理啊可是呢 就是說 你這個監獄的門 你要關注這個罪犯 關注這些犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6294.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6312.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
可是他進去你也要敞開一個希望,給他一個希望所以我想請教署長,我剛才說的累進儲備的部分,外資電解你也說往廢除的方向去做一個前進那你們現在的進度,現在是到哪一個階段,是不是也跟大家來做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6313.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6328.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
是 報告委員 我們本署在明天會針對離境處議再召開一次的會議我們希望在明天召開之後就可以等於可以完成 之後我們會盡快來報佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6330.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6355.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
是 我相信都是你們法務部你們做一些報告之後我們辦公室來討論 我覺得你們有道理我們持續跟你們追蹤這個其實都是整個獄政的一個改革立法院對你們表達一個支持另外我要繼續講的就是說這個以現在來看的話 雷神廚藝將壽星人按照不同的等級給予相應的一個權利你去看這個壽星人剛進去監獄的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6357.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6383.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
有時候你會覺得那是跟受刑人之間那種連動覺得受刑人這個時候反而是最需要家人的一個支持你初期在服刑的時候你跟家人聯繫深刻去反省的階段但是我們現在的一個累進處役剛好相反你去限縮接近跟通信的一個機會跟教化的初衷其實我覺得都要背道而馳署長你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6386.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6412.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我是同意委員的意見因為累進廚藝是在民國35年那時候制定的那現在因為時空的變化所以剛剛委員提的那個親情的關懷是很重要的我們將來在修法裡面除了這個之外包括說不合理的現象市級可以看電視 三級反而 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6414.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6437.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
收音機這個是以前是留聲機留聲機又等於收音機是三級才可以持有那我們現在的社會電視很普遍所以它四級就可以持有反過來會問說四級可以持有電視那三級才能夠持有收音機這個好像怪怪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6438.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6460.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
所以類似這種我們都會一併來檢討另外跟委員報告我們這個連線處理的重點會縮短刑期把他拉高跟外遇間一般間跟外遇間差異不要那麼大另外就是要跟假釋來脫鉤那這樣子我想對於我們整個管理運作會有正面的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6461.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6474.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
其實你有講到一個重點了啦,就是說,你說要這個跟假式來做一個透過,以你目前來看的話,你看那個教會師啊,這柏林你剛才聽到書長在說,就是變大就好像每一個教會師都變成一個,好像數學老師一樣,大家都在玩數字遊戲啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6481.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6497.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
檢察官或者我們檢調人員司法機關去打擊犯罪這個都是符合社會的一個期待可是當他是一個受刑人進入到另外一個階段除非你要把他擁事把他做一個隔絕不然你不是要讓他再社會化嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6498.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6505.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
是不是這樣說你現在來看的話你像刑刑累進處以裡面你根據的等級越高你那個縮刑的日數本來就越高的一個規定你只要要求達到二級才能提報去做一個假釋也就是說我們現在刑法七十七條的一個假釋你本來受徒刑的執行而有圈毀實據的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6517.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6529.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
有基督行你說二十五宗 有基督行二分之一累進到這個累犯是三分之二那你做監獄報警法務部的時候 那得以假釋來出獄可是以現在來看的話 你又要達到滿二級這就像書長你剛才說到的這個整個方向你要往哪裡去走我反而會覺得啊 這個都是值得我們修法的一個思考的一個方向不知道書長你會看我是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6545.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6567.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我們這一套累進除也好假釋也好是行之很久了當然我們會把它做適當的修正但是我們不是完全把它匯除我們是在監獄學習法有一個專章把可以適用的一些條文把它匯整後納進去當然不會自愛難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6569.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6587.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我現在擔心的就是說其實這一套考核的一個制度啊你也很清楚了就變成混亂掉了你受刑人沒有辦法去了解到自己的一個分數的一個情況之下你整個變成大家在玩數字的一個遊戲啊那我在想啊就是說以現行的這一行政來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6589.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6607.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
不應該像以現在來看的話 就大部分都是比較類似於那種壓迫性的一個服從啦 倒不是從教化這個部分去造一個著眼講這個社會大政未必聽得下去啦 有的人認為說你這個犯罪啦 你本來就是受到這個報應 這個我都贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6609.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6626.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
但是我都認為有好幾個階段好幾個階段除非啊監獄是完全要關注犯罪的地方不給這些受刑人敞開任何希望的地方那我就沒話講但是呢這個都值得我們這整個掌管最高這監獄行政的 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6627.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6641.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
法務部或者我們家政署這個地方一併來做一個思考啦畢竟我們也我看學者專家還有法務部我們都有那麼多的一個學者專家去做一個研究往更好的一個方向去走啦有時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6643.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6666.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們有委託兩家大學去研究我們得出一個很重要的結論我們會簡化考核制度因為我們經過幾次的一些修法確實太複雜了有的新任的教委師他還搞不太清楚所以我們會朝著簡化考核制度讓每個教委師更有效率更能夠保障受用人的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6667.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6681.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
所以我該講的還是要講啦 不然我今天本集講的這一句話哪一天又有一個重大案件發生的時候把這句話又連結的話 那個都又是政治口水啦可是呢 該改革的方向還是要改革 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝莊瑞雄委員來 接下來請吳思瑤委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6703.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6722.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
好今天阿川朱祁那是不是多寬限一點時間因為有39案好有請李俊逸秘書長請劉建新秘書長還有任市長跟施部長都一起好了等一下就不用不好意思好請四位一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6724.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6744.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
好 大家早安喔 推動政策不應該有空窗期喔雖然是凍結 但凍結其實就是造成我們摯愛難行到現在今天已經是5月12號了我們對於很多業務 事實上已經有5個月半的時間沒有辦法如常來運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6745.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6758.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那我特別也要說在野黨的委員說送來送來解凍案送來就解凍了事實上現在各個委員會在排審的只不過加總起來是11%的凍結數因為呢多數高達89%的凍結數必須送院會或者是設下更複雜的解凍門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6769.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6780.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
所以現在即便我們今天在這裡快速的排案不過這只是一小小部分的解凍案但我們還是希望能夠順利來通過下一頁再下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6782.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6808.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
監察院李秘書長先你們針對總預算被惡棟惡山提出了釋憲事實上不只是惡山構成你們摯愛難行我這段時間去研究了包括蔡茂穎教授黃世新教授徐仁輝教授他們都提出了憲政的新的觀點他們主張凍結預算掩飾逾越憲法賦予立法院的預算審議權 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6809.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6835.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
以動帶刪是立法權侵犯行政權立法院就成了太上院甚至徐仁慧教授說凍結預算就是毀損預算的契約這些都違反了大法官264391520號解釋您可不可以再具體針對監察院提出的釋憲案我想應當除了刪解預算也還有凍結預算的部分您簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6837.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6851.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
跟委員報告我們監察院有關憲法訴訟案我們已經在3月24號正式提出我們認為這一次立法院刪減預算違反到司法官大法官解釋的4至391還有585 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6853.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6875.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
然後613 632特別是632所謂的憲政機關的忠誠義務就是不能因為你的作為或不作為造成其他憲政機關無法運作那我們認為立法院所做的預算審查確實有這樣的效果所以我們監察院別無選擇我們只能提出憲法訴訟你們確實是下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6878.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6882.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
再下一頁你們確實是受災程度NO.198%喔我非常好奇啊今天雖然兩岸大概1036萬解凍但無助於你們98%山洞被你們這段時間監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6894.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6913.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
能夠做什麼呢我跟吳委員報告一下今天的解凍案我們其實只有兩案一個是我們財申處印這個廉政專刊的錢468萬公職人員財產申報對公職人員財產申報另外是這個所謂的營建工程就是普及的維護嘛普及維護我們改管線 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6914.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6938.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
該管線我們去年省了15萬度所以我們還是希望它會通過那其他被刪除的部分其實是我們非常困擾所以現在包括我們所有的會議我們今年還有一個這個世界性的年會我們現在還在追這個預算到底要從何而來因為這是18個會員國參加那我們也希望趕快把這些預算能夠把它追回APOR年會 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6941.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6957.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那個是750萬所以我們整個業務如果吳委員看到我手上這張表會很清楚我們議事業務被刪了百分之百調查巡查被刪了百分之百一般行政刪了百分之百我們國家人權刪了百分之九十七 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6958.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6976.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那我們唯一留下的是財產申報但是財產申報所需要用的系統因為放在一般行政裡面也被全數刪除所以我們實在非常辛苦我們現在所有的調查還有我們的公務車都是靠我們委員自己支撐的那你現在每天隨身攜帶衛生紙嗎我衛生紙都擺在辦公室裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6981.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7009.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
非常的辛苦喔希望能夠順利解凍不過監察院只解凍了1036萬我們堅持的是我們要做到憲法賦予我們的責任還有陽光司法交代我們的任務其他你們98%的刪減我看根本就沒頂沒當我們很遺憾但是我們還是盡力爭取好這就是立法院成了太上院來癱瘓其他的憲法機關監察院我們認為每個憲政機關都有它的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7010.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7025.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
在上會期用這個職權行使法來讓我們調查權不能動那我們只好訴訟,那訴訟我們也贏了第二會期用預算讓我們監察院不能動那我們希望也是透過憲法訴訟的部分來爭取我們的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7027 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7045.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
好那監察院是開第一槍針對總預算來提出釋憲這一週民進黨團也會跟進好那請林秘書長請回接下來是考試院下一頁考試院我先聚焦你們被凍結的很大一筆主要在野黨的委員是說要 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7046.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7062.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
反霸凌可是卻來動相關可以做霸凌的預算第二個呢是我們軍公教的退府基金的改進方案但非常遺憾警察人員人事條例被二修通過了年改走回頭路下一頁再下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7063.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7092.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我想問一下喔你們已經送出了公務人員保障法考機法還有安慰辦法嗎如果沒有被凍結預算你們就會Pending就會擺爛嗎還是原本你們就會負責任的把它送出來我記得還沒審預算之前我就一直在關心你們一開始就保證再保證這是重要的事情反霸凌制度下手相關的手法你們就會做在野黨委員為什麼要 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7093.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7121.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
用反霸凌的名義來動你們的預算呢來 米少我們周鴻健院長在立法院人事統一權的時候被質詢到相關的議題就已經承諾了嘛對 那時候大家就很關切這個霸凌法制化的問題那我們在立法院來備詢的時候也都有做相關的承諾所以當時我們抓的進度就是大概半年在這個會期五月上旬送過來所以我們在五月一號院會通過之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7121.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7150.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
5月6號送進來換言之在野黨委員去動這筆預算毫無道理因為原本你們的time table就是要做嘛立法委員的監督可以用各種方法包括本席我也這張PPT是我早就在業務報告的時候質詢你們的我也早就追蹤到你們會在這個會期送書我們希望下個會期完成修法甚至如果這個會期有研會的話也許更快也不一定嘛好 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7151.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7171.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那現在我問一下市部長這跟人事總署一起的私謠一直在催生的心理假這也是落實賴總統的這個心理健康的相關政策我們研議了請假辦法什麼時候可以上路這個比加發加增4加1天假我認為更重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7172.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7197.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我想總署那邊完成那個研議完以後就送到我們這邊那我們現在正在進行預告預告完以後呢我們就會送到考試院去做最後的一個確認考試院確認以後再跟行政院做會嫌我想應該不會太慢啦所以現在布送到院考試院要快一點喔然後考試院再送到行政院來會嫌我想那個蘇人事長我們都同意吧兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7199.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7212.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
都是主事者 明年上路公務體系的薪禮價是不是可以期待 是不是 YES一定是的 肯定是的好 很好 謝謝你們的答案我不需要凍結預算我也可以催生公務人員的薪禮價因為我可以透過我 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7217.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7232.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
鍥而不捨的監督各項會議達到這個政策的目的下一頁還有一件事情我要提醒一下退府基金我多次來說退府基金我們需要下一頁做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7234.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7255.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
退府基金呢對於投資碳足跡居然是所有的高包括勞保新制的勞退就制的勞退郵政儲金我們都是投資金額裡頭投資碳足跡最高的所以用國家的退府基金來投資高碳產業我們一定要檢討下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7257.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7278.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以氣候相關財務揭露TCFD國內各金控已經上路了綠色金融3.0也納入了退府基金要跟上我質詢過今天有一筆解凍案就是跟退府基金的管理相關可不可以正面的告訴我你們這方面已經在努力跟上了是 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7279.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7305.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
剛剛委員報我們已經在努力而且我們已經正式出版一個報告那我們也要召開一個會議那未來我們的投資策略組合裡面就會把這議題也一併會拿進去也謝謝委員一直在關心這個比今天在野黨委員凍結你們退府基金要你們針對投資的決策會議紀錄公開還重要的多還重要的多我希望你們能夠趕快跟上好我最後一個題目再佔用我一分鐘來人事長來我到國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7309.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7326.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
下一頁 下一頁 下一頁人事總長 人事長最近大家都在關心國安漏洞所以針對公務體系的一般忠誠查核或是特查一般查核是你們進行特查是調查局那最近我們都針對國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7329.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7346.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
國會成為國安漏洞的死角那天我們在質詢了調查局他們希望能夠針對現在1328個特查的職位要擴充到2336個但是還是沒有納入立法院的職員工那您的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7348.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7359.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我想這個部分還是要尊重立法院內部的一個規範那您也支持如果立法院訂定自己的特查辦法那後續你們跟調查局分工上大家來協力進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7360.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7382.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
如果是立法院通過的話我想特查這部分就是調查局他一定會按照整個規定去執行那需要的人力缺口我們會給現在您是督導管理所有公務體系人員的這個大家長您認為立法院的職員工現在被排除在特查之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7383.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7398.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
立法院的職員工接觸機密的機會非常高您認不認為來督促立法院訂定特查辦法基本上我們還是要尊重立法院的你知不支持嘛否則國安漏洞就在立法院嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7399.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7421.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
因為委員也講得很清楚 因為在立法院接觸到精品資料的場合還有那個人員也非常的多啦我希望任市長您要更積極正面一點不能因為特查辦法是調查局在進行你就好像沒藥沒金我要說的是所有公務體系同仁都適用於公務人員任用法 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7421.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7449.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
公務人員服務法它適用的法規是一致的沒有道理只有立法院的職員工語文機密這麼高他們卻長期被排除所以我具體要求調查局已經從1328個特查職位要擴充到2336個但是還是排除了立法院的職員工我要求要納入而我也支持立法院要自行來克責自我的自律來訂定特查辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7450.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7457.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我會支持我會努力希望人事總署也更正向我們也會支持我們也會支持好謝謝那就質詢到這謝謝好謝謝吳思耀委員質詢接下來請王洪威委員質詢好謝謝主席我請我們的人事總請人事長人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7484.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7499.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
委員長好 委員長早在上個星期五那麼立法院通過了4加1的方案那麼就是增加了國定假日那我想請問一下到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7500.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7510.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
到目前為止人事長有沒有接獲行政院的任何的指示或者我們人事總處有提出應該對立法院上個星期五的這個法案的決議要提出附議 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7519.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7545.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
跟委員報告這兩個部分第一個部分行政院沒有做任何指示那第二個部分是我們人總已經針對跟今年有關的三個節日一個是928 1025還有1225那這三個節日剛好一個是禮拜六一個禮拜天一個禮拜禮拜四那我們也內部在檢討今年的廉價的方法那個總統三讀公告以後我們要怎麼進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7547.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7574.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
這是第一個部分第二個部分同樣按照往例的話明年的行事例我們會在6月30號以前簽行政院對外公告所以我們現在是分兩個部分一個是針對今年下半年一個是針對明年上半年對然後這是我們現在已經在做一些幕僚作業好所以到目前為止在行政院至少您所聽到的沒有要復議的這個任何的規劃跟想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7575.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7582.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我都沒有聽過這個如果行政院來問您的意見您知不支持就是贊成要提出復印呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7584.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7608.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我覺得這是行政院會去中整考量他不會問我這個啦好 所以那對上個星期五我們所通過的法案您個人是支持的嗎 人事總署是支持的嗎我想公務員有依法按照法律的規範去執行相關公務的一個責任而且這個法的主管機關事實上是在內政部啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7609.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7613.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那我們是背著我們這樣的一個法來去做相關的規劃可是人事總署到時候要排駕齁 待會我會提到就是說其實在整個修法過程裡面那主管機關是內政部但是勞動部其實人事總署的意見也非常重要那當時勞動部跟人事這個內政部之間是怎麼樣踢皮球 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7628.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7643.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那因為大家還是關心假的問題如果以我們下半年來看的話下半年來看就是可能是十月份十月份因為碰到中秋節跟雙十節所以呢在一個星期會出現兩個連假對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7646.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7672.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
包括大概九月底一直到十月份這裡面會有三次的連假所以再加上十月二十五號光復節的部分放假的話那是不是十月份會出現比較多的連假是不是會集中在九月底跟十月份還是說你會把它有可能把它分散到十一月因為現在十一月沒有任何的連假 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7676.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7693.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
詳細的情況我們還是會找教育部啦還有經濟部啦 相關部會來因為你只要一調整的話像國際金融市場你如果一調整的話跟國際沒有辦法接軌對整個金融的運作事實上都會有一些影響跟衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7694.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7700.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
好 了解 所以因為我在現在看我們的形勢力應該是在 您說在9月底到到這個10月初這段時間的廉價比較多所以我覺得這個部分可能就是怎麼樣這個廉價放起來 包含就是各行各業還有勞工能夠能夠充分的利用好不好 因為10月25號其實因為928是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7720.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7734.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就是本來是只有老師放假 928他就會面臨到所以怎麼樣把它調整 讓大家能夠很珍惜這真的很得來不易的這麼多年 將近十年這樣的大家爭取來的一個假期 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7735.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7739.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那另外我要特別講到就是說我剛才為什麼去問要不要復議因為柯總召接受媒體的訪問的時候他竟然說如果因為我們知道馬上就有一個大罷免他說哎呀不用提復議反正等到國民黨這些立委被罷免之後那麼明年可以把這些價再改回來所以很多的勞工朋友擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7761.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7763.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
擔心是不是到時候整個大罷免的這個之後然後呢如果在野黨立委如果因為這個罷免之後席次變少然後又由民進黨團取得多數席次然後再把價收回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7778.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7796.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
又把原來我們的4加1的價收回去我想任市長你覺得這樣子合理嗎因為如果最後行政院是沒有提出復議的話然後把價收回去合理嗎我覺得這個應該直接問柯總召比較清楚因為他也沒有跟我講 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7797.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7799.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
他也沒有跟你講你同意他這種謬論嗎你同意他這種意見嗎每一個委員的聲音我們都非常尊重我不能用正面跟負面的方式來評價這樣非常不禮貌 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7811.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7827.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我覺得柯總召這種方式事實上真的沒有尊重我們廣大的勞工另外就是這一次的4加1的方案老師說我覺得行政院目前的表現是比較正常的其實我基本上肯定我們人事總署立刻針對可能馬上面臨的928教師節跟10月25號的光復節這些假期趕快再做規劃但是我要特別提到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7839.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7860.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
就是說在這個我們整個的法案的過程裡面我剛才在講其實呢在因為這個法案不是現在突然憑空冒出來的其實呢在從上上會期就已經開始有委員相繼提出來不同的法案那而且呢可能各個委員提出來說實在的可以說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7861.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7874.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
其實是五花八門因為每一位委員他在乎的這個放假日是不一樣的別原住民委員他比較在意的是原住民紀念日那別說陳一貞委員他在意823他認為對金門是比較有意義的譬如說像麥一貞委員因為他是新移民他對於這個移民日國際移民日他認為應該放假我們尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7886.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7895.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
每一位委員他的一個價值觀但是我們都做出了整合也非常感謝各位委員他們在提案的過程中我講的這幾個委員他們都有提案所以都可以進行討論但是我們可以看到在整個的法案通過之後民進黨立委竟然說他們提的假日都被拒絕了 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7913.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7926.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
被國民黨在野黨封殺了 這個我們就不理解了第一個 有沒有提案 沒有提案第二個 有提案自己又撤案第三個 在過程裡面 你有沒有提到臨時動議或者修正動議 通通都沒有提到也就是事實上在整個的這個法案的過程裡面民進黨團沒有任何的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7939.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7943.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
也沒有修正動議事實上甚至有四個法案原來有提案自己又撤回了自己撤回所以我必須要講在這個過程裡面那麼行政院我覺得到目前為止是有尊重立法院最後的我們的一個法案的審查權 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7961.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7989.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
但是在民進黨黨團裡面提到說民進黨團提到的假日民進黨委員是完全被拒絕錯這完全是造謠因為你沒有提案請問如何被拒絕我剛才舉的這幾個例子這些委員他們自己都有提案但是我們感謝他們在這個提案的過程裡面那麼大家意見可以被整合大家意見可以被討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7991.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8002.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我覺得這才是一個修法過程裡面應該有的態度所以在最後呢一點點時間所以我想請教一下那個任市長所以我們現在這個整個的以現在來講到目前為止行政院針對4加1的這些國定假日放假日那麼現在目前是會執行嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8017.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8044.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我跟委員報告一下 事實上我們這兩天的幕僚週月已經排好未來的十年的假大概原來是每一年的休假會115、116嘛那現在排出未來十年從明年開始大概會120到121大概每一年會落在120點跟121點我們有先試排出來好 所以就是根據我們星期五所通過的法案來做來做排好 謝謝我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8046.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8057.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
這樣子人事總署現在的這個態度基本上我們我想所有的勞工朋友是非常感謝也不只勞工朋友包含公務人員嘛我記得那時候我還問過那個人事長說針對勞動節的部分是不是應該全國性放假 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8066.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8072.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
或者是教師節的部分是不是應該全國性放假因為我剛剛在講就是說因為這兩個節日常常一個家庭裡面同時還有勞工他同時有那個教師那這樣的話這個價都會不一樣讓大家不要有困擾所以我覺得基本上我支持跟肯定現在人事總署的一個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8089.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8098.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
當然我也希望任市長如果行政院有任何這種複製的提議的話您可以本於你的專業然後提出不用複製了因為事實上人事總署已經在做一些相當好的一個安排 好不好謝謝委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8106.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8120.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
好 謝謝王宏威委員接下來我先做會議程序的宣告啦稍後在我們鄭天才委員詢答完畢以後我們休息五分鐘接下來請陳培宜委員來進行詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8132.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8139.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
好 謝謝主席 這邊要先請人事總長 謝謝請人事長好你叫總長 你長而已 你叫總長人事長啦 抱歉抱歉我不總啦 是人比較總而已 人比較總而已說得好 不然你衝到變大了 總長的外公沒有人事長好好 來 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8161.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8179.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我們來往下看第一張我想要跟你討論其實因為面對境外勢力的關係那我們不斷在談公務員相關的查核但是過往我們只要聽到查核兩個字好像其實就會有不好的印象我們來看一下這個歷史背景我之前看到你們說要請調查局擴大查核範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8183.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8209.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
还要针对所谓涉及国家安全重大利益的各个部会的幕僚长以上的人员还有相关的机要聘雇人员还有他的财务状况有亲密互动状况都要列入查核内容而且还要增加查核频率我觉得这个态度是对的也是好的可是我们来往下看如果因为当时你们说要在两周内有相关的办法我自己有点担心两周内 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8210.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8227.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
其實是有困難的怎麼說如果我們要開始做這件事情我們都會希望它可以越來越好而且這個做下去的事情是真的有意義的那根據施老師也就是現在的權序部部長施老師的一篇文章我們可以看到假設我們要借鏡 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8227.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8243.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
美國的經驗我們來看一下有哪些美國的經驗現在在台灣實施可能會有相關的困難而那個困難可能來自於國人的見解或者是公務人員的理解或者是大家有沒有社會共識來第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8244.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8263.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
時間有點太短了我來看一下這個是美國聯邦政府用人查核資訊網頁前一頁這個網頁裡面他談了非常多的事情他們做了一個很重要的示範用人查核不限於公務員他必須要有好的分級分等查核這件事情我認為我們國人可能都還沒有共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8264.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8287.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
接下來看到查核對象的設定在美國目前是用所擔任的職務工作內容來決定應受查核的強度不管他是不是公務人員可是在台灣我們是以僱傭關係來決定有沒有受到規範目前只有公務人員的身份其他身份幾乎都不用再來就是我剛剛一直跟您說的社會的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8289.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8316.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
過往台灣對於這件事情認為是一種政治監管政治的控制這當然是來自於戒嚴時代大家對戒嚴時代所遺留下來的恐懼跟認知導致於我們相關的行政作為很寬鬆內容也相對簡單也就因為如此我剛剛才會跟您說我們看到你們新聞稿對外說兩個禮拜內會有相關進度其實我是擔心的也就是說如果我們希望做得更全面 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8316.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8330.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
其實兩個禮拜內可以是一個短時間的規劃但是長期來看如果為了面對這麼複雜的國安情勢我認為我們要做更多的努力跟功課我們來看一下用美國案例再往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8331.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8354.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
任職前他們要做基本背景調查我們往下看發現這個基本背景非常的多包含曾經居住曾經工作曾經求學的地方還有他們的名稱還有任何軍職的經歷警方曾經留下來的記錄點點點點點點甚至第一次入職的人都還要留下指紋而這個表格SF85要寫到十幾頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8357.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8373.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我認為這件事情真的在台灣還沒有共識但我們是支持的前提之下如何一讓社會有共識二讓公務人員還有不限於公務人員的人都必須要有這個認知什麼叫做不限於公務人員的人我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8374.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8390.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
現在在美國的分類我們可以看到它分成非機敏的位置或者是可以接觸到所謂公眾資料資訊的人的位置或者是接觸國安等級而把人做分級甚至是他們已經做到的事情講到這邊我想要問人長 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8393.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8420.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我剛說這是來自於全序部施部長他的一個臉書發文所以我們再去做了很多的研究去看了美國的資料下一張我想要問我講了這麼多你可以聽得出來我是支持的但我認為我們要更多進一步的規劃跟討論讓這件事情不管是短期中期長期我們如何建立一套台灣適用全方位的政府雇用人員安全查核可不可以請您說說看 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8421.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8447.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我跟委員報告因為剛好六七年前我有接觸過美國的這一套那查核的就是以國防相關的因為美國國防工業很多都是委託民間在做它相關的一個查核的一個procedure事實上一個人最少要三個月的一個特查的時間包含健康、情況、財務它的面向非常多我看過那個每一個人的查核大概一分錢這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8449.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8468.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
SS80是10幾頁然後更多就是像你說的一分錢這樣所以我們都認同嘛這個強度很重要但是我們如何在未來促成我們有沒有機會往這裡去規劃我覺得這一次一個很大的一個突破就是我們不用人眼生分而是他接觸機密的等級 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8469.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8491.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
因為有些是業用人員主任秘書以上的他裡面有可能有一些業聘顧問一些業用這些臨時事實上都會進來就以他赦密的程度我覺得這一步是一個非常重要同樣的我們也有把財務查核在經過當事人同意以後我們再去進行因為財務 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8493.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8508.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
財務的這一塊以前沒有特別去highlight那有些是財務有問題的所以他可能會變成對方的一個設定的一個標的啦所以我想這一次也做了很多的一個進步的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8510.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8537.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我剛說沒有錯 就這個部分我絕對是認同可是我認為更長期來看我們可以做得更完整所以這個部分也要拜託你們帶回去研議如同你剛說的 你自己都看過美國相關的資料厚厚的一本十幾頁甚至幾十頁他所希望建立的就是所有這些公務機關的相關人員他必須要對國家有所忠誠而且因為他領的是納稅人的薪水不管他在哪一個位置上只要他有相關的可能性我們就必須要做防範 好不好好 謝謝喔 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8542.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8548.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
謝謝主席好 聲音還給我好 接下來我要先請保訓會 謝謝你稍等一下 看那個關你有沒有關來 保訓會 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8557.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8582.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好我要跟你們討論關於公務員員現場職場霸凌的問題之前我已經提醒過了關於霸凌這個問題絕對不要台灣有兩個制度一個是公務員一個是勞工那目前在保訓會的資料裡面我們看到面對職場霸凌受害人如果要救濟只能內部申訴而沒有辦法向保訓會提出外部救濟來看下一張對不對我現在講的資料是對的對不對主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8591.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8607.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
對我們關於性平的部分我們可以做行政處分可是在職場霸凌的部分因為之前我們知道要修職安衛辦法還有公務人員權益保障法我們要談到所謂霸凌的定義然後相關的程序還有可不可以納入免職的要件這是我們未來要修法的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8608.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8629.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
但是在修法之前 因為修法可能還要一段時間 半年到一年不等喔你們可能還在蒐集相關意見 還有相關程序要跑可是在這之前 職場霸凌在保訓會內部的相關人事行政行為一覽表裡面 它是一個管理措施也就是它只能在自己的整個機關裡面 不斷不斷 最多就是到部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8630.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8641.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
然後就沒有了 沒有辦法做外部的行政處分我認為這個對於現在公務人員的士氣是一個打擊我想要請保勛會員回答一下你們怎麼看這一題我們可不可以有機會做更友善的設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8642.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8666.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
好 跟委員報告目前的現行法制呢 它現在機關裡面呢進行了這個申訴之後 如果它對於這個申訴是不服的 它可以向保訓會進行這個再申訴那它如果再不服的話呢 它可以走行政救濟那當然因為這個目前的人事行政的行政行為裡面呢 過去在 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8667.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8693.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
有關於職場霸凌的部分呢他是要看他主要的這個救濟的標的是屬於人事行政的部分還是屬於管理措施對所以呢他也一樣當他不服這個保訓會所做出來的這個審議決定他可以走行政救濟那如果行政救濟他再不服他也可以像一般的這個部分呢進行這個透過民事形式 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8694.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8716.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
的這個就是去找行政訴訟嘛對不對對可是我認為這個相對現在對公務人員其實是不友善的因為你們是透過4字7785的解釋做出這個決議對嗎是對就是人事行政行為的這個修訂在100這個09年的時候我們根據這個行政程序法裡面對於哪些是屬於可以列為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8718.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8734.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
人事行政的行政行為哪些是列為管理的措施來進行了一個比較全盤的檢視但是的確像委員所提到的未來有關於職場霸凌它的成立與否 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8735.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8744.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
是不是也要納為所謂的這個副省的項目目前會裡頭也正在研議當中目前正在研議所以你們有規劃相關進度嗎研議的結果你們本來壓在什麼時間點會有相關結果或者是修正討論的可能性跟委員報告因為我們這個考試院呢這一個陳榮剛秘書長提到那 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8755.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8780.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
保訊會目前最重要的事情就是已經把這個安慰辦法送行政院會嫌然後送立法院那接著回來的這當中會涉及到很多的相關的執法我們目前已經盤點出相關的執法要修哪些也包括委員所提到的這一個有關職場霸凌未來是不是這個申訴跟它的成立與否未來是不是也要變成是人事行政的 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8781.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8795.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這個一覽表裡面的一項對目前這個也在我們的盤點規劃裡面好所以聽起來你剛回應我的是修法的部分啦但是我說其實這個內部人事行政行為一覽表其實你們就可以做一個比較快速的決定啦是 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8796.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8825.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
因為時間有限我們也許之後會後再討論好嗎但是我認為在修法之前我們就可以有比較積極的動作為什麼讓人事長留在你身邊是因為其實在人事總署裡面就有一個相關的案例他後來是被計量搭過免職相關的那個案例我就不再細講所以我認為其實已經構成相關要件可以往下討論不要只有等到修法我們給基層的公務員更多的鼓勵在這件事情上我認為這絕對是一個正面加分的行為好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8825.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8849.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
好 謝謝那保訊這邊請回那人長 不好意思 再留一會兒主席給我一點時間 謝謝保訊還是要留著 對不起我要講那個友善育兒職場的事情我每次來這邊 只要你們有出現我就會問到友善育兒職場因為這個是非常重要的政策它不會只有在私人企業它在公務機關也非常的重要之前我們看到有一個個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8850.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8864.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
有一個外交部的同仁他在他派駐在俄羅斯然後他的過往的工作狀況也非常好一向都是被打假等可是在他懷孕那一年請生產假的時候呢卻接到他的主管電話他當時給他打了一個疑等甚至在相關電話的對話過程當中呢這個主管還跟他說相對起來就是因為你有請假嘛相對比起來真的工作量減少了嘛打烤雞這個比例喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8879.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8903.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
從來沒有行諸於文字的比例 你也是知道的啦而且還有一定的比例要給一等我沒有要拿個案跟你們討論我要談的是 過往在公務員職場當中的文化確實對於生育這件事情是比較不友善的但是這幾年整個行政團隊 整個行政院機關 包含總統都公開宣示我們要做一個友善育兒這件事情 它需要逐步推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8903.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8919.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
逐年改善甚至所有第一線基層公務人員的主管們他們也要建立這個認知而這件事情我想要拜託任總跟保訓你們可不可以公開告訴我們公開的呼籲這件事情真的不要再發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8921.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8945.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這個我們一定會再加強宣導就如同委員剛才提的啦這幾年我們一而再再而三再宣導你針對請異因的啦生產的啦或者賠產的產檢的這一些不得為不利的處分嘛我們一直在強調如果有這樣的案子的時候我們一定會去查清楚因為我覺得不能因為人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8949.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8975.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
穿甲、顧孩子還是性善,你又去人家打口氣而且還有一點,這些營養裡面我們都不列入我們家庭的比例裡面所以它的影響是很大的當然會有一種情況,當事人的表現,而不是因為他請異因留庭或者他的生產、或者賠產、或者產檢這一些我們會有一套很客觀的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8977.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8985.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
謝謝袁市長你這麼正面公開的承諾跟回應我認為這件事情真的對公務員很重要保訓這邊呢可不可以說一下你們的態度跟立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8986.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9011.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
跟委員報告這個有關於這個支持我們這個公務人員他行使他應有的權利呢這絕對是保訓會呢最關切的事情那當他因為他行使他的權利而遭受到不利對待的時候呢他就可以來申請這個附審他可以打救濟好那這個我們呢有關於這個部分呢今天陳委員的提醒我們在未來的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9012.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9021.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
今年的宣福島案例裡面也會特別去提醒人事人員有關於這方面的注意以上 謝謝好 謝謝你們這麼正面的回應最後一個友善職場這個要給我們很重要的空間友善職場的職場托育空間之前我已經問過人事長保訓請回 謝謝我之前已經問過人事長你跟我說他其實是一個很重要的行政參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9034.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9048.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
但是因為它不是硬的規定所以目前大家真的就只有拿來做參考我幫您整理出來目前在近三到五年的公共興建工程裡面在人口稠密區連淡水這個地方114年啟動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9049.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9063.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
招標作業裡面都沒有列入所謂有篩育的空間那甚至在新竹市北區我相信你相信新竹市北區絕對是人口稠密116年完工一樣近三到五年招標一樣也沒有整個十個案子裡面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9065.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9089.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
只有四個他有列入他有把這個友善職場的職場托育空間列入空間規劃而且他有真的去規劃但是有六個是沒有的我要講這件事情其實真的很可惜我知道已經有相關的辦法但是各個單位甚至國發會或是工程會都只當成參考我們沒有列為一個重要的推動的政策任長可不可以講一下你的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9091.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9119.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
謝謝委員給我這樣的一個資料我想會後我們會親自去查因為政部長也在這裡我剛才看到有幾個是華為部的我們一起來處理應該是說這件事情它跟工程會跟國發會有關我認為我們更積極的去宣導這件事情甚至列為一個重要的考核絕對是一個對基層公務人員非常友善的事情還有我剛剛說了關於內部針對生育育兒不友善我們相關的規劃報告有機會在一個月內給我們辦公室嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9121.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9142.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
好 OK 沒問題好 謝謝委員長 謝謝主席 謝謝好 謝謝陳培宇委員都要不小心把你按到你的聲音所以多還你一分鐘這個友善職場生育當然不能是一個扣分的理由不加分國安危機都已經說不過去了來 接下來請鄭天才委員詢答你給我笑一笑 多給你一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9151.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9175.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
好 稍微我們各位委員有請這個人事長請人事長還有考選部部長考選部情緒部也一起上來委員早好 早這個公務員服務法第二條我先請教那個人事長人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9177.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9203.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
公務員服務法第二條本法適用於受有奉給之無五職公務員及公務員事業機構純勞工以外之人員這個在人事行政總署的系統裡面除了這個公務員你們有對不對有嗎公務員的資料有那個公務員事業的這個部分你們有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9206.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9234.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
在你們的系統裡面我請教一下委員你指的是公營事業是哪一方面的資料就是公務員服務法第二條所定義的公務員公營事業就是從勞工以外的人員都是都是公務員因為公務員服務法第二條是很廣義的前序部有嗎你們的系統裡面有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9236.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9263.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我們只會有要送省的一個資料好 所以人事好 我的我的這樣啦 董事長我們先看接下來的公職人員選舉罷免法第77條規定現役軍人服替代役之現役役男或公務人員不得為罷免提議被罷免案的提議人所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9265.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9281.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個中央選舉委員會或是地方選舉委員會收到罷免案的時候會請人事行政總署查核這個提議人有沒有剛才所講的公務員服務法的第二條 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9284.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9302.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我跟委員報告我們部確實有接受這個中選會如果他們覺得有會送給我們查他是不是公務人員這個事情對那你們有查核到因為你剛已經說明嘛你的系統只有我們只有有送審的嘛送審的公務人員我們確實有這我了解對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9303.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9330.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那我是要我們沒有在查核這個你們沒有在查核這個因為中選會也沒有命當好這個我有打電話給中選會過他說他們都有跟今年就起碼今年有跟你們開過會回去查核我們是有開過會但是他沒有幫我們去查所以是給前西部前西部有收到這樣人事行政總署確定一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9332.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9334.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
所以我才問你人事行政總署到底有沒有公營事業機構的廣義的公務人員你們有沒有這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9358.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9386.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
供應事業蠻好查的供應事業的部分也有一併查了我們系統裡面我們去串聯也有去查以後這個早一點同仁要早一點跟你講不然浪費時間我們看這個人事行政總署跟那個情緒部就請回座考險部這個有關上次我在這裡也質詢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9388.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9399.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
針對公務人員特考 原住民公務人員特考 從110年不足而入企57111年不足而入企55名 112年不足而入企77名 113年不足而入企79名 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9410.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9439.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
都是非常高的一個不足額入企非常可惜有這些缺額卻沒有入企原住民很重要的就是像土木工程是最多的財稅行政、經建行政、農業行政這些的額都很多非常可惜上次你的報告裡面也特別提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9442.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9467.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
說這個兩院院級院級的協商怎麼樣去協助促成能夠解決這些問題這是今年3月27號因為我之前有關心過所以你們有特別提到這個在報告裡面請問一下現在目前進度怎麼樣公務員報告5月5號有特別在行政工程委員會要召開一個跨院的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9468.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9482.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那裡面有特別針對原住民特別是土木工程類科那目前我們會希望說這個要結合教育端然後最好也能夠跟原民會一起看有沒有動用資源特別是針對因為我們大概知道是東部那邊的那一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9484.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9499.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那因為那邊的目前缺乏高等教育大專校園缺乏對應科系或對應的學程專門針對原住民來強化培育我們希望能夠下一步朝這個方向來努力所以這個上次的會議是你們主動的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9501.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9528.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那個是由跨 然後5月5號這個是由跨院兩個院一起召開那是由公共工程委員會是公共工程委員會召集對 那行政院是由公共工程委員會好 那個 這個部長因為行政 公共工程委員會我認為它主要是針對土木工程的啦所以事實上還有其他的類科所以這個部分 這個部分要請這個因為他們不會知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9529.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9553.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
所以要請這個考選部這邊能夠把這樣的資訊能夠讓他們知道譬如說這個農業部或者是這個用人的單位這個部分當然因為高目考都沒有問題啦可能啦我不知道但是基層的像原住民行政特考就有這方面這個切合都很可惜好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9557.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9577.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
好 謝謝鄭天才委員 你說的有什麼 你那是不足而已你看台東那個國產署 高考 普考 放榜都有了 都舉辦了 入局 台東沒人要去社會不一樣啦 進步了啦 所以這個公務人員的能力確實要珍惜啦 來 接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9583.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9607.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
好 謝謝我們鄭天才委員接下來我們請鄭 鄭全我剛才是宣告鄭天才委員耍了休息五分鐘下次鄭天才的質詢耍手也不必 不能讓你來好 我們現在休息五分鐘吧謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9973.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9990.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
好 我們現在繼續詢答 接下來請鄭正全 鄭正全委員鄭委員不在 鄭正全 鄭正全委員鄭正全委員不在好 接下來有請我們最有氣質的翁曉琳委員詢答你又笑 我覺得俄羅斯人就少受罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9998.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10013.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
謝謝莊委員每次都給我鼓勵這是真心的今天因為是針對整個預算的詢答所以我就事論事就是針對預算的部分那首先我想先請人事長請蘇人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10020.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10042.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
委員長人事長好我想我首先先問您一個就是我們在上禮拜通過了今年日與假日實施條例那麼我有看到新聞上面您有說這次的這個通過的國定假日的修法會有一些治案難行的地方是不是可以請您說明一下為什麼會有治案難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10044.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10052.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
沒有自然難行所以我們現在多增加的五天的國定假日人事總署這裡應該是可以做適當的安排嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10053.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10082.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
因為整個法令就是等總統三讀通過以後我們會按照整個法令的規定怎樣我們就事實上我們前幾天事實上已經有示牌了一些可能未來假日的一些他會落在哪一個位置然後相關的細節我們已經有做第一版的一個示牌好那所以聽您這樣說的話應該行政院不會針對這個案子提起復議案吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10083.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10103.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
很抱歉我沒有辦法幫行政院來答候這個不過好我從您剛剛的回答理念大概可以知道現在民進黨政府應該是不會針對這個案提起復議如果提起復議的話不就是成為全民公敵了嗎好那接下來呢我有接下來就針對兩個預算案的部分在這次審查預算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10105.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10133.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
其實有兩個當然跟人總的案子很多啦那麼其中有兩個案子是本行比較關心的就是當時我們有這個凍結一個人總的有關於人事行政政策規劃執行及發展案的這1000萬的案子那時候就是有請人總可以盡速的提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例那請問一下你們現在這樣子的一個法案的進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10134.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10152.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我跟委員報告因為在整個上一年三一夜的時候在大宴有提這樣的一個要求以後我們就開始進行一些邀請這些利害團體來開會然後也公聽會各方面都已經完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10152.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10169.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
在上一年年底我們已經把整個草案送已經完成人權跟姓名的評估嘛然後也政委也開會那現在就等行政院排入整個院會議程然後會送大院整個程序已經進行到這裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10170.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10198.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
只是進行到行政院所以根本還沒有送到立法院所以我們根本還沒有看到你們的草案草案我們有對外公告大概有八點因為我想很多委員很關心的是參與的那個諮詢會本來是基層的公教人員代表是沒有我們這次增加了四位進來這是當初的一個要求我們都已經列入到整個新的這個八 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10199.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10216.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
八點裡面都已經把他拉進來了因為這涉及到就是這一千萬到底能不能解凍那麼當時的要求是說你們要把草案送到立法院可是看起來你們現在都還在行政院會議裡面可能都還沒有排入行政院的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10218.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10237.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以我想這個部分可能之後要請你們把這個草案送到立法院之後那麼我們才可以來做預算案的解凍否則的話不給你們壓力也不知道這個軍公教人員的待遇調整條例草案會什麼時候才會送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10241.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10253.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
不過我這裡真的要拜託委員要支持因為就像學生在寫考卷一樣考卷我已經交到老師那裡老師還沒有批我想責任不能怪在學生嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10256.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10263.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
因為老師有時候什麼時候改什麼時候你們是公正的第三方我們當時給你們要求是說是你們要盡速的要提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案我們已經提出了你們提出又不是提出道立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10279.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10290.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
因為裡面會有一些行政程序要走啊所以就是說你們要盡速的跟行政院院長反映到行政院會那裡要盡速排案有跟行政院那邊報告過了然後也請求盡快能夠排入整個院會的議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10297.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10306.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
因為排入行政院院會議程以後才會送到大院已經有拜託好幾次了因為行政院會有公正的考量今天我是在幫忙人事長非常謝謝委員這個議題應該要讓院長知道不要一天到晚都只是會去下鄉宣講搞大罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10314.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10333.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這重要的案子又會該排就排而不是一直拖拖拉拉的從去年到現在已經有多久的時間了除了這個案子之外還有另外一個就是有關於職安的防護辦法修正草案跟軍公教人員的公務人員有關的這個其實只是辦法啦當時也是說希望人事總署這邊能夠盡速提出你們什麼時候會提呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10337.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10362.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這個保訓會裡面在公務人員保障法已經在5月6號送到大宴來了5月6號已經送到大宴來了所以你的意思講說這個職安的就公務人員的安全及衛生防護辦法的話這個部分的話就跟人種沒有關係是嗎不是沒有關係有關係可是這個法規的主管機關在考試宴那考試宴已經在5月6號已經送到大宴來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10363.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10391.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
好那所以你的意思講說就你們的部分你們的階段已經完成了嗎安慰辦法要會辦我們行政院然後因為會選而已因為安慰辦法是在兩院會選那他的上有的那個法例公務人員保障法已經5月6號送到大院來的好的了解了好OK那接下來呢我要請法務部對好是謝謝任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10399.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10402.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
是 部長在這邊有一個議題我想要請您再幫忙澄清事實上這次的預算凍結案裡面有一個是涉及到律師職前訓練的當時法務部這裡應該是編了三百多萬後來我們是凍結了五十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10420.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10428.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
可是在今年3月初的時候全聯會自己就發了一個新聞稿講說我們這次有關於律師職權訓練的預算案因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10437.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10463.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
法務部刪除了該部的檢查行政業務的費用的10%所以呢整個的職前訓練的預算就下修為297萬然後看起來又把這個責任又怪罪到立法院請問一下我想請問部長你們現在是對於律師職前訓練的這個經費是不是真的是有下修 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10464.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10475.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
是有少給全綠會嗎跟委員報告原來編的預算是331萬因為統三的關係所以是統三版之始所以變成是預算是297合定是2979000元那這邊是有有凍結50萬可是統三的部分的話你們自己中間可以去做一些調配嘛對不對你們為什麼要去刪這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10492.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10495.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
律師值錢委外訓練費用我們當時並沒有說要統刪並沒有刪這個部分如果要刪50萬的話我當時就直接我們就刪了我們只是凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10503.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10524.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
跟委員報告因為這一次去年以上次上個年度來講的話因為預算不符因為實際核算的決算的是386他是預算數是331但是覺得是386萬餘元那預算不準是有檢察室的業務費的流但是這一次是沒辦法沒辦法流用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10528.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10546.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
因為最主要是沒辦法留用那另外這次那個委辦的預算我們是編了687萬4千元律師職員訓練是佔了48%所以這份的確是因為不足所以這次我們就減減了變成是辦五次的一個職權的一個訓練的一個梯次 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10546.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10562.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
部長我想要講的就是我們其實當時每一筆預算都好好看包含項目細項的部分我們刪的是檢查事務費用包含宣傳費或是其他一些費用並沒有要去刪這個律師的委外訓練費用當時只是說凍結50萬可是因為你們的捅刪而且你們釋放出錯誤的訊息以至於讓外界認為說是我們立法院刪了這個律師之前訓練的費用這50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10576.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10605.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
對我之前我就已經有說這防部次長的這種說法根本就是在造謠你們自己內部的調整跟我們立法院有什麼關係是你們認為說律師值錢訓練費用這部分是可以少所以你們自己把它又刪了然後讓人家本來是一年半六次在去年就已經宣告說一年半六次的這個踢訓後來變成是就是少一個踢次變成是五個踢次那中間又有一些踢次的時間的日期不是很恰當 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10605.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10607.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
經過本席請你們法務部來協調後來才調整出一個比較適當的梯次但是現在仍然是辦五個梯次 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10615.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10625.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
就是用線上跟那個實體的一個上測對現在總之就是辦五個梯次嘛所以我們原來的意思是說你們331萬的預算我們凍結50萬你們結出專案報告之後就可以解凍還是應該要以辦六個梯次為主結果你們現在自己刪了刪了之後又已經公告現在只辦五個梯次所以本席的想法是說那現在我給你解凍這50萬是什麼意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10637.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10659.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
沒有意義啦 你這五十萬看起來你們又流去做什麼宣傳費沒有沒有 跟委員報告因為它這個 我們是一個委辦會用是編了六百八十七萬四千元那我們現在是統三 百分之十所以其他的各項的委辦會都是全部都是三 百分之十所以 那個律師職權的那個訓練費正好佔這一筆的委辦會的百分之四十八 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10661.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10673.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
48%所以這邊如果全部統三的話我們沒辦法再去從其他的委辦的項目再去去支應就是這樣去留意我跟你講就算是你刪了10%的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10675.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10699.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這個事實上你們現在第一次也都縮減了所以看起來也沒有解凍這50萬的必要因為你們就少辦了好我跟你講這個部分我們之後再來談那更重要的是說按照律師法的規定我之前就已經講了109年通過的律師法當時說之前訓練的這個辦理律師之前訓練是要由全國律師公會來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10701.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10712.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
所以相關的辦法也應該要提早要提出來那你們的公告呢 之前一直沒有公告那我最近看到了 行政院現在已經公告了嘛116年要實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10714.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10727.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這已經報行政院核定已經報行政院核定嗎 我已經看到了嘛116年才公告實施嘛 核定了 核定了那個116年會1月1號嘛 1月1號會來對 所以也就是說從109年到115年這麼多年的時間都是法務部在出這筆費用而不是由全國律師公會出這筆費用對不對這個是一個委辦的一個費用委辦的費用 我沖對 沒有沖 就是由法務部來支應這個委辦費 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10744.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10766.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
可是從律師法當時的修正裡面看不出來是由法務部要委辦而是由律師公會自己要去出這筆錢至於說辦理之前訓練的費用是不是要由律師自己負擔一些費用這個是當時你們在修法時候的情況嘛你當時修法為什麼要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10767.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10784.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
就是因為想說之後這個基礎訓練一個月的基礎訓練上課的費用可能就是由全國律師公會來辦理那麼至於他要不要跟這些來授訓的學生然後來收一些上課的費用就是當時的想法他們可能會要來授律師訓練這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10788.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10804.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
這個才剛考上的律師學生們他們要自己要負擔一些費用結果呢你們一直遲遲的不去公告相關的這個辦法不去公告這個相關的作業規則那麼反而都是由國家一直來出這筆錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10805.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10830.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那個更委員報告那個已經公告了那再來的話就是要有全聯會來我希望這個辦法趕快提出來因為本行也要看已經施行了這辦法已經施行了那不好意思那之後再提出來你們的辦法給我來看好謝謝部長那接下來我要問一下矯正署最後矯正署今天有來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10842.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10849.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
針對矯正署的部分本席在之前有看到我們上次的預算案第398項的預算案你們有提個專案報告在當時的預算是凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10857.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10881.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務3000萬這筆錢本來是編了9億我們凍結了3000萬然後希望你們能夠提出一個專案報告那麼特別是針對矯正署保外醫治的審查機制來做一個專案報告請問署長你有看到你們提出的專案報告內容嗎有你們寫了多少字你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10889.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10906.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
可能這個委員看的那個是比較簡要的我們有一個專案報告專案報告呢9頁我怎麼沒有看到我這裡只有只有兩頁而且呢不到400字你們是今天才提的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10909.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10931.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
是什麼時候寫 是跟我這邊講的398的這個案子一樣嗎專案報告可是你們提供給我們的書面資料就是這兩頁啊而且這兩頁裡面你們只寫了不到400個字耶然後就要解凍3000萬然後內容非常的空白你們法規抄給我 抄給我們這些委員們看因為就整個法務部有很多案子我們這邊業數是蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10940.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10967.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
別的解凍案其實也都是寫得很完整你們這個時代是太草率了然後你們說截至到114年3月31號保外醫治的在外人數504人在外超過9年的有32人你們總是要列個表大概是什麼樣的情況竟然有保外就醫超過9年而且甚至更長的你們都沒有寫出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10968.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10989.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
你們這樣子的一個專案報告方式 讓本席非常不能認同報告委員 這個專案報告裡面有列表委員可以再詳細看一下好 希望你待會把你們所謂的9頁的報告 應得所有委員看好 沒問題可能放水這樣的一個解凍案是 沒問題好 以上 謝謝委員好 謝謝翁曉琳委員接下來來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10997.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11001.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
最帥氣的羅志強委員有請蘇仁市長請仁市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11017.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11035.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
人事長早 那個立法院我們上週通過了紀念日及節日實施條例增加了五個國定假日那我想請教人事長 那人事總署何時會重新公告今年新的行政機關辦公日曆表 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11038.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11054.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
這個大概分成幾個部分第一個就是35通過以後要總統要公告嘛那總統公告之後我們就實施可是事實上在上個禮拜五之後我們人總已經有試泥今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11055.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11078.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
因為今年下半年大概有三個節日一個禮拜六一個禮拜天一個禮拜四那禮拜四的部分大家就會來討論要不要移動下的問題事實上我們已經有做一些初步的一個規劃到最後還是要簽行政院核定那今年同樣的我們也在做一些按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11079.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11101.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
往常明年的一個行事曆的排定會在今年的六月底那我們現在也試著看看把今年下半年的異動跟明年的一併在六月底前要送行政院讓行政院核定公告因為大家要明年的班表要怎樣排會比較方便不過這個過程中可能也要跟委員報告因為這個牽涉到 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11103.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11114.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
金融業還有整個廣大的中小企業各個行業還有我們可能會找相關部會大家一起來討論行程共識聽聽看大家的意見尤其 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11116.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11131.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
明年增加了五天,事實上對偏鄉的小孩子的受教權事實上是有影響還有他們明年一些國中小的那種上課過年的時間我們要跟教育部來協調,要怎樣會比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11133.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11156.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
一個 大家的共識度會比較高啦共識度會比較高非常謝謝我們的任市長可見任市長已經有開始做充分的一個規劃跟準備了嘛因應現在一個我們新通過的紀念日跟節日實施條例實際上我覺得全國民眾現在也對任市長有很大的一個期盼就是很多細節趕快把它擬定好 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11157.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11177.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那我想請教 具體來說 你剛才已經講到了嘛比方說今年下半年新增教師節台灣光復祭 金門古寧頭大節紀念日還有行縣紀念日 這三個國定假日那教師節是遇到禮拜天嘛 對不對然後光復節是遇到禮拜六嘛那補假的規劃會是怎麼樣去做補假 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11177.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11206.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
按照目前的按照目前還沒有修改的規定是如果是禮拜六的話會前面那一天放假如果是禮拜天是後面一天就禮拜一放假所以就在前後找一天那另外一個大家也關切那就是小年夜小年夜是以彈性過去修法前是以彈性放假的方式處理那就是還要補班但是明年2026年小年夜是週日那 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11207.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11227.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
請問他的補假會補在哪一天 因為剛好是放在禮拜天嘛會補在哪一天 那明年的農曆初四是星期五是不是就會補在這個星期五這一天那這樣的話就可以讓明年的春節假期從六天增加為九天那如果不補假是不是在初四就實施所謂的彈性放假呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11229.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11246.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這個人事長有這部分有討論規劃有有有這個有討論過這個部分我們已經內部有開過好幾次會啦那現在可能再去找相關單位大家因為遊戲規則有沒有傾向目前以所謂的人事處總處的 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11248.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11269.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
目前沒有傾向因為我覺得很多議題要討論應該不要自己太多的定見去干擾別人的一些想法事實上我們的角色就是傾聽像經濟部或者勞動部或者金管會或者教育部相關部會的聲音然後我們來找一個最 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11270.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11288.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
最大公約數因為時間還有啦坦白講也沒有那麼急迫要人事長馬上做出規劃但是你要多聽幾個單位也可以但是民眾確實對於這個小年夜是不是變成是連續的假期一定是很關心嘛對不對這應該是人之常情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11288.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11306.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我已經收到很多的關心了我也收到很多的關心大家已經開始預劃明年的休假這是大家都引頸氣盼的事情所以任市長如果各單位的意見徵詢完之後能夠趕快讓國人知道那好規劃明年的假期我們會盡快來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11308.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11336.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那另外在這邊我也必須要說一件事就是說這次在野黨來一起為民眾爭取到還假漁民增加五天假那我其實有一點遺憾啦因為我每次發言我都是希望說民進黨的朋友能夠一起來支持那到底要放哪些天作為放假是可以討論的可是呢我想要請教人事長請問行政院有沒有版本在這一次的這個紀念日跟節日實施條例有沒有行政院版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11337.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11358.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我覺得這個可能要問內政部因為這一個不會啦 人事長沒有沒有 我要說我不知道法律主管機關是內政部啦我當然知道 可是假日這個是內政部有關你也有關係我剛其實上來就知道你可能要推給內政部啦我不是推 因為你講準中法律一定好料他是上游我是下游啊就沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11359.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11379.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
沒錯吧那委員的情報比我還完整我不曉得所以我要講一件事情就是說如果說今天如果行政院反對這件事情民進黨反對這件事情那就直接說反對然後一直說我們的民進黨主張的假日版本沒有被討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11380.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11386.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
問題是行政院連版本都沒有請問哪裡討論那另外一件事情因為這過程其實人事長你也上來被詢過幾次雖然說是內政部主導的業務但因為人事總處還是有業務相關所以這題目其實上我們也會來詢問人事總處的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11398.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11427.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那我也要跟大家講很抱歉民進黨雖然有版本但是在我們修法的過程當中直接就撤案啦所以我回頭還是要講一件事情就是說到底該不該放假當然會有兩面意見嘛對不對有人贊成有人反對這個其實那個無可厚非啦那我們認為說過去我的主張一直是一貫啦如果今天台灣我就問人事長台灣現在我們的工時在亞洲號就只輸給新加坡嘛排行第二名嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11432.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11446.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
全球排行第六如果我們的公司是全球倒數第六名然後是亞洲倒數第二名說真的我也會舉雙手雙腳反對今天來增加國定假日 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11446.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11469.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
為什麼因為我們工時已經是最低了沒有資格來談增加國定假日可是事實就不是這樣嘛那高工時變成國恥的時候我們要貫徹蔡英文前總統說勞工是心裡最軟的一塊那就要消滅這個國恥那增加國定假日減少大家工時確實是一個辦法當然我們也認為有不同意見也是好事情可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11470.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11490.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
今天最忌諱的事情 最遺憾的事情是那你明明就是反對這件事情 那你就直接跟我講說其實勞工的工時 亞洲第二 全球第六這是國家無上的光榮 勞工不值得放假我們就是堅決反對增加國定假日如果說今天行政院把這個態度拿出來那就是大家好好讓人民來決定誰的立場比較對 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11492.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11516.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那不能夠說過程當中你連版本都沒有然後你有版本把它撤掉最後通過了在野黨的版本然後跟我講說你沒有讓我們的這個假日能夠得到討論我覺得這樣是不公道的總而言之不管怎麼樣講反正現在已經通過修法期待我們任市長把休假規劃做出來讓全民一起來擁有這一個小確幸謝謝您 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11520.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11530.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
謝謝羅志強委員尋答接下來請徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11532.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11549.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那所有登記發言的委員都已發言完畢 詢答結束那委員質詢時要求提供相關的資料 會議書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交 各位委員及本會那剛剛翁曉琳委員 其實你提到的那個部分 就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11551.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11570.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
他們幫你詢問不清楚 其他提供的報告是比較簡略的另外我們現在來進行議程所列預算的解凍案解凍前請議事人員一併宣讀報告事項跟討論事項之預算解凍案請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11572.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11586.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
報告事項二行政院人事行政總處函為一百二十四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送決議一第一幕一般行政預算凍結二十萬元書面報告請查照案三考選部函為一百二十四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該部決議一二三及 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11590.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11608.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
一二及三預算凍結書面報告請查照案四全區部函為一百日四年度中央政府總預算決議減送公務人員退休撫恤基金管理局決議一預算凍結書面報告請查照案第五案至第八案分別為五法務部函為一百日四年度中央政府總預算決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11609.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11627.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
減送該部決議二第二幕向下補助毒品防治特別收入基金預算凍結100萬元書面報告請查照案六減送該部決議三第五幕向下新世代智慧檢查AI科技計劃預算凍結50萬元書面報告請查照案七減送廉政署決議一第二幕廉政業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11628.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11655.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
預算凍結50萬元書面報告請查照案8.檢送行政執行署及所屬決議1.第三目執行案件處理預算凍結100萬元書面報告請查照案討論事項第一案監察院函為114年度中央政府總預算決議檢送稅出第六款第一項新增決議255及312預算凍結中案報告請查照案第二案至第七案分別為二人事行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11656.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11682.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
行政院人事行政總署 含為114年度中央政府總預算決議檢送決議二 第二幕 人事行政之政策規劃執行及發展預算凍結1000萬元書面報告 請查照案三 檢送決議三 第二幕 人事行政之政策規劃執行及發展預算凍結1100萬元書面報告 請查照案四 檢送決議四 第二幕 人事行政之政策執行規 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11683.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11710.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
人事行政制政策規劃執行及發展預算凍結三百萬元書面報告請查照案五檢送新增決議九十三九十七及一一六預算凍結報告請查照案六檢送新增決議九十八預算凍結書面報告請查照案七檢送公務人力發展學院新增決議一二五第二幕資訊服務費預算凍結五十萬元專案報告請查照案第八案至第九案分別為八考試院含為 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11712.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11722.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
114年度中央政府總預算決議減送決議12及3預算凍結書面報告請查照案9減送新增決議212預算凍結中案報告及新增決議219預算凍結書面報告請查照案10考選不含為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議226預算凍結中案報告請查照案11全區不含為114年度中央政府總預算決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11741.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11748.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
減送該部新增決議232 業務費預算凍結30% 專案報告請查照案第12案至第13案分別為 12 公務人員保障及培訓委員會 含為114年度 將政府總預算決議減送決議1 預算凍結書面報告請查照案13 減送新增決議247 預算凍結專案報告請查照案 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11765.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11784.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
第十四案至第三十二案分別為十四法務部函為一百一十四年度當政府總預算決議檢送該部決議一第二幕向下辦理檢查行政業務中獎補助費預算凍結兩百萬元書面報告請查照案十五檢送該部行政決議三二九第一幕向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11784.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11802.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
基本行政工作維持預算凍結百分之二十專案報告請查找案十六檢送該部新增決議三四三第二幕法務行政預算凍結六百四十一萬七千元專案報告請查找案十七檢送該部新增決議三七二第二幕向下辦理國際 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11803.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11830.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
及兩岸法律事務之國外旅費預算總結30%專案報告請查照案18.檢送該部新增決議375第二幕向下補助毒品防治特別收入基金中獎補助費預算總結10%專案報告請查照案19.檢送該部新增決議376第5幕向下新時代智慧檢查AI科技計畫預算總結20%專案報告請查照案20.檢送矯正署及所屬決議1第二幕向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11830.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11858.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
辦理矯正行政業務預算凍結兩百萬元書面報告請查照案二十一檢送矯正署及所屬新增決議三八八預算凍結一億元書面報告請查照案二十二檢送矯正署及所屬新增決議三九零第一目一般行政扣除人事費預算凍結百分之十專案報告請查照案二十三檢送矯正署及所屬新增決議三九四第二目向下辦理矯正 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11858.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11877.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
行政業務預算凍結500萬元書面報告請查照案二十四檢送矯正署及所屬新增決議398第二幕向下辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務預算凍結3000萬元專案報告請查照案二十五檢送最高檢查署新增決議404第二幕向下督導速攤暨重大刑事案件辦理中 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11878.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11895.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
業務費預算凍結百分之二十專案報告請查照案二十六檢送最高檢查署新增決議四零六第二幕向下督導速淡計重大刑事案件辦理至國外旅費預算凍結百分之三十專案報告請查照案二十七檢送台灣高等檢查署決議一第二幕向下辦理刑事案件偵查及 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11896.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11912.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
執行等業務預算凍結三千四百九十一萬七千元書面報告請查照案二十八檢送臺灣高等檢察署決議二第二幕向下強化社會安全網第二期計劃預算凍結五百萬元書面報告請查照案二十九檢送臺灣高等檢察署新生決議四零八第二幕向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11913.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11932.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
基本行政工作維持至資訊服務費預算凍結200萬元專案報告請查照案30.檢送調查局新增決議428第一幕向下資訊作業中業務費凍結500萬元專案報告請查照案31.檢送調查局新增決議436第二幕向下國家安全維護及安全防護工作中 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11932.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11936.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
媒體政策及業務宣導費預算凍結50萬元專案報告請查詢案32.檢訟調查局新增決議441第三目向下通訊監察工作中設備及投資預算凍結2500萬元專案報告請查詢案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11954.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11970.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
好 謝謝主席在這邊做宣告啦我們今天看起來就溝通的也蠻順利啦中午我們就不休息上午的會議進行到議程所列的四項均處理完畢為止那本次的議程所列的預算解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11970.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11994.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
都已經宣讀完畢我們現在來進行處理那依例照議程所列的順序我們就先處理報告事項按機關別先處理行政院人事行政總署跟所屬機關的議程報告事項的第二案那有關人總114年度預算解凍書面報告案該案已列入議程提出書面報告並經宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11998.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12025.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
溝通的差不多了吧 有沒有跟你說明有沒有什麼意見好來 翁委員針對那個討論事項人種的那個案子第六案那個那個 翁委員我先來講報告事項 報告事項而已好啦 報告事項呢我們就都已經提出書面報告了畢竟宣讀我們就做以下的決定准與被查來提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12028.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12052.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那接著我們來處理考試院跟所屬主管114年度預算解凍書面報告案報告事項第三四案該兩案已經列入議程提出書面報告並經宣讀那我們就做如下的決定報告事項第三案第四案均準於被查提報院會沒有異議沒有異議我們就通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12056.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12079.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
那接著我們處理法務部及所屬主管114年度預算解凍的書面報告案報告事項第五到第八案該四案都已經列入議程並提出書面報告並經宣讀來做如下的決定報告事項第五到第八案均准予被查提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12083.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12087.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
這個都是報告事項沒有異議我們就通過那個討論事項一定會讓大家來討論報告事項預算解凍宿命報告案都已經處理完畢後續處理來討論事項無關的機關代表可以先請離席 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12107.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12130.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
報告事項處理完畢我們繼續進行討論事項由於法務部下午需要列席憲法法庭希望說可以提前處理請問在場委員是否同意提前讓法務部來進行處理法務部及所屬主管的預送解凍案請問在場委員有意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12134.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12150.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
沒有異議的話我們討論事項就先處理法務部跟所屬主管的預算解凍案我們先進行討論事項有關法務部跟所屬主管的預算解凍案的部分請各位參閱關西文書的合訂版整份在這討論事項第14到第32案 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12160.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12164.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
法務部的跟所屬主管在114年度預算解凍案裡面已經報告及詢答完畢都已經宣讀了請問在場委員有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12174.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12198.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
來 翁小玲委員剛剛講的那二十四案就是有關於矯正署的辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務凍結三千萬的專案報告因為其實在我們這本這個這麼多的這個預算報告關係文書裡面它其實真的就只有寫兩頁後來的這個剛剛說的這九頁的報告不曉得是什麼時候才交的來 矯正署請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12209.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12227.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
請拿麥克風好不好是我們有透過國會組這跟那個辦公室我們辦公室那邊聯繫了那得到的是說我們就拿在我們會場備用備著這樣子是 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12229.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12247.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
請問是跟哪一個委員辦公室?是跟我辦公室嗎?不是吧?因為這個是你們所有的委員都要看的就算是我之前我曾經有關心過這個案子可是你也不是用這種方式來呈現更何況就是你們寫的內容仍然是非常的簡略喔你們雖然說後來這邊看起來有列了 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12253.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12271.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
羊羊大概有列了大概五六页但实际上的内容仍然是罚散可成我现在要求就是说是包含就是有多少的受刑人他们曾经有提出申请保外就医以及保外就医被驳回的次数比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12273.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12284.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
這些都要做詳細的統計啊否則我們根本不知道說到底現在受刑人保外醫治的情況是如何報告委員我們這個有我手上這邊有這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12286.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12313.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
沒關係 有資料沒關係那特別小林委員所提出來的這些資料是不是也再馬上做一個提供好不好可以 或者可以齁 這樣翁委員這樣啦 我的建議是說你愛都交你要求 我准你動資啦好不好就是我現在是動三千萬但是因為我覺得還是要給他們貼壓力否則他們不會寫好報告我的想法是說是給他改的我會替你給他要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12316.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12343.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那個署長這個我已經講好幾次了所以還是莊委員比較有面子他們都不說甩我的面子我要求的事情他們都沒有做那個書面資料快速提供啦好不好那我們這個預算我們就準與動之提報院會翁曉琳委員所要求的資料要加條件啊等一下他什麼時候提供給我而且我這邊我會 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12345.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12349.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
三綱三綱寫得出來沒署長幾天寫得出來今天下班以前可以寫這麼快 這樣做五品書了啦只有黃曉玲才有啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12359.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12379.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
你看嘛就只有翁小玲委員有這麼大的面子下班以前沒有只有莊委員有這個面子買買買好了那我們就主委動之提報院會那今天下午以前資料趕快提供這個在外面在長達九年的三十二個受刑人他們的病情狀況是怎麼樣為什麼這麼久到最長是多幾天都要寫出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12380.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12383.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
主席 吳宗憲委員第十九案因為當初我要的資料還沒有全部給剛剛已經有跟我說了 是不是請 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12408.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12425.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
請法務部這邊可以說明一下我要的一些譬如說滿意度調查等等的都沒有那正確率這個我沒有意見啦正確率的比例那是不是請法務部說明一下說明讓我覺得如果有理由的話我這邊就沒有意見好 法務部請說明我請檢察司說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12428.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12449.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
跟委員報告有關這個AI科技的計畫因為過去我們的事辦機關是中檢跟桃檢所以沒有全國的資料可以來提供經過委員提醒之後我們今年會就因為也增加了北檢跟新北檢的事辦所以我們會就這四個地檢署來召集相關的會議同時隨時的請他們提供使用者的意見來給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12456.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12476.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那會針對這個委員要求要提供這個滿意度調查以及使用次數的部分我們都會做一個統計之後然後再來提供以上那這個部分我想就是能不能大概給我一個可能可以做的這個時間大概要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12477.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12490.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
因為那個今年我們的那個計畫就是目前是招標中那我們今年就會做對今年就會做有關的這個滿意度的調查那針對這幾個事辦機關詳細日期還沒有辦法給譬如說幾月間可以給有沒有辦法告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12494.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12521.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那或者是我們一季提供就是每三個月提供給委員好然後這樣就是說但是你那個問卷我希望說至少你統計上面要顯著就是讓我們知道不要說問個十個人然後就給我們了解這部分就麻煩你你們一定要給如果說十九案這邊我如果說要解凍我沒有意見但是就麻煩你們承諾的事情要做到謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝你還有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12524.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12531.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
法務部及所屬主管114年度預算解凍案已處理完畢機關代表就先請離席 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12548.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12565.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
接續我們來進行監察院主管的預算解凍案的部分討論事項第一案是監察院主管114年度預算解凍案都已經報告及詢查完畢並已宣讀 請問各位委員有無疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12567.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12588.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
沒有異議的話我們就準以動之提報院會那監裁院主管114年度預算解凍案已處理完畢機關代表可先行離席那接下來我們來進行討論事項有關行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管的預算解凍案的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12589.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12604.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
討論事項第二到第七案人總及所屬主管114年度預算解凍案業經報告及詢問完畢並與宣讀請問各位委員有異議沒有異議的話我們就准以動之提報院會剛剛是講人總嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12606.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12614.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
人總我們剛剛已經達成協議了我再排個時間叫他回來 酸尼啊你還理我 我說你酸尼啊 你不要走開跟人事長有講了 本來是凍結一千萬那現在就是改凍成一百萬他會三年不夠啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12637.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12648.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我們希望院長能夠重視這個事情卓榮泰能夠重視軍公教人員調整條例草案要趕快排入院會送到立法院來審議要給卓榮泰一點壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12654.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12661.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
因為我剛有宣告啦所以這個宣告了這樣叫你們自己趕下去不趕啦好不好要不然我宣告了 對你也抱歉因為我剛已經提出反對了我剛 抱歉如果你剛我還沒宣告以前齁你這樣說我一定百分之一百來尊重一百萬而已不算我的問題是說我剛已經有給人家宣告沒有吧有有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12683.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12685.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我們跟人事長都已經講好了沒有什麼特別委員跟人事長講好了大家就要聽特別委員的 你有程序啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12699.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12706.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
因為我有特別有講而且有講說討論事項的這個案子我有特別要做剛主席一直在詢問沒有意見你沒有意見嗎我的問題 我剛有詢問大家我不知道這一趴啦所以我就問大家有沒有意見我才說大家沒有意見我才宣告所以我現在很快就提出我有意見了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12717.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12720.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
唉唷 我就算夠了 你怎麼這麼說 別這樣我一個主席主席我剛剛在質詢的時候 您有聽到就說我很在意這件事情所以當時就說凍結一千萬 我甚至還不肯 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12734.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12756.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
這個不肯放寬說變成只改動100萬後來剛剛跟人事長我們有講好了就是私底下有協調有關於這個凍結1000萬到底要不要放行這件事情因為我還是很在意就是人事總署他們已經很努力的提出來了這個草案到行政院行政院趕快要支持讓他們的案子送到立法院來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12757.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12764.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
王委員你給他動一聲我也沒意見就是說你剛才在我宣告之後我才知道有1%啦啊這個錯都是人事長的錯啦他也沒來跟我講啦所以要打屁股就給他打屁股因為我宣告完了我對整個委員會我沒有辦法說因為你宣告准以動之以後啊然後因為你再提出來我就說再給他動一個100萬不好意思我剛剛真的沒有聽到你有講說是問有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12785.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12802.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
可能我講得太小聲了 麥克風的問題這麥克風不好 我們下次再修理麥克風好不好這個就這樣啦 一條一百萬就這樣這個吳宗憲委員 如果你宣告一樣嘛我們也不好意思說碰到這種情況沒有 我遇到這種狀況 你們早就鬧翻了就是不會不會不會鬧翻而且我們只是 欸 這麼多的案子我們只是動 動不是要買到百萬嗎那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12809.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12829.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
不是啦我覺得不能這樣做其實今天解動案你看我們都非常的善意剛剛所有包括AI那個我本來覺得要動我也覺得OK我就希望行政能夠更順遂我們都是這樣今天我們大家來都是維持一個善意啦他們說話已經談妥了我跟你說我剛剛不就不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12830.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12839.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
沒有了解到這個翁委員跟任市長你們有講凍結一百萬這一趴嗎所以我不敢問你們在場有沒有異議你們告訴我沒有異議我沒有說沒有異議啊沒有人講有異議啦這個有異議真的確實要提出來啦因為那個時候我就趕快提出來了啦哎呀主席不要這樣子我跟您說一下你剛剛這個次序又交換又顛倒那本來一開始是說先處理人種的 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12860.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12861.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
明天一早去跟院長報告這件事啊這樣可以嗎 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12880.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12891.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
沒有用我現在不相信卓榮泰講的話啦一定要送過來之後白紙黑色才看到當時的解凍的條件就是這樣啊要送立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12893.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12913.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
同意要送立法院才會解凍嗎我做主席的時候我都很尊重每個委員嘛那有時候我們做了一個裁示之後有委員說他剛剛沒有聽到或什麼我們都會盡量滿足大家的要求我現在也是在跟你們滿足所以說今天我覺得我們來我們只有解凍案我們都非常的善意那我們也放得很寬那不然這樣啦這樣啦 算我不對啦一百萬影響也不大啦你們趕快上行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12924.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12943.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
報告委員因為進就是要單行正義排到院會啊我上一年已經完成所有的程序啦因為行政院他會有很多案子在那裡Q行政院會去排那個優先順序那現在行政院有綜合考量無事啊 委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12945.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12948.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
因為第一個部分是程序剛剛主席是一案一案有問在場有沒有異議那個時候可能中線委員跟翁委員可能在討論其他事情所以沒有聽到所以現場沒有異議就通過了所以還原程序是這樣那我想我們質詢是質詢但是審查是審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12970.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12995.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
沒有說我在質詢台上我說了怎樣就要怎樣或者是我私下跟某個部會講好了就要照我的那個原本的協議因為為什麼大家質詢完個別委員都回到現場就是要在審查的過程再去make sure而且這是一個集體的合議而不是個別委員的意見所以程序上我的主張是這樣第二個就實質上溫委員所在意的那個法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12996.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13017.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
好那當然人事長已經承諾他也已經送到院裡頭那去督促院裡頭趕快排案但如果翁委員剛剛要繼續再凍結一百萬的這個的理由是不滿意行政院還沒有排您對卓院長不信任您對於卓院長有意見那也不應當是對人事總處的預算嗎因為人事總處法案已經處理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13018.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13040.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
所以後續行政院也還是有行政院的解凍案嘛好 如果說這個冤有頭債有主如果剛剛翁委員您具體說您是不滿意左院長行政院的部分那真的也不 就是說對上也不對啦實質的 克責的對象也不對啦但我講這一part是這是補充我第一part是認為程序是如何就應該是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13041.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13070.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
剛剛主席已經主持很清楚的問現場有沒有意義 沒有意義那補救的話 其實文委員後面還有行政院的預算嘛還是可以處理啦所以我是尊重主席的才是主席也很努力在在在磋商了好 謝謝 您都不要說 我跟您說其實我都 你們的發言我都沒有半點去做負面的解讀啦都盡量 都給您收音 讓您變正面其實院會交下來這種的一個解讀案 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13071.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13080.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
也沒有辦法來部分解凍啦重點是在這個地方啦所以我不能跟你說沒有意義通過是給大家都維持的彼此都很專業啦好不好這個部分就這樣子啦我們就這個部分就準以動之提報院會來來來 再說來 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13095.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13117.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
第一個 剛剛到底主席宣告的時候我們在做什麼 我們有沒有提出異議我覺得這個如果不清楚的話 那麻煩把剛剛的錄影帶再調出來看然後第二個就是 明明當時解凍的條件很清楚 就是草案要送到立法院草案要送到立法院 就是沒有送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13119.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13140.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
所以我現在只是看了這個法案草案有沒有送過來那麼至於行政院院會排什麼時候坦白說那就是看人事長跟行政院院長你怎麼去跟他請求排入院會然後才能送到立法院這事實是很清楚的它就是沒有符合我們當時的解凍條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13142.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13152.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那麼我們剛剛私底下那個人事長有來跟我說明這個狀況我說OK我可以理解但是我還是認為說因為我的條件寫得非常的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13154.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13167.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
就是沒有送過來那麼為什麼我們要這樣放水如果這樣的話那其實以後所有的案子都沒有完成我們全部都解凍那凍結就沒有什麼意義了所以我希望主席能夠了解就是今天我不是說是整個凍一千萬也不是說凍五百萬只是小凍一百萬希望他們能夠趕快送過來假設你們下禮拜你們就已經排了就能夠上院會送過來我相信吳昭偉這裡也可以盡速的幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13183.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13197.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
來提這個案子的解凍案對我不要大家爭執在這個案子上面然後搞得本來今天朝委其實從頭到尾都是很體面然後對我們大家都是出善意然後我們好好的把這些案子談那現在就剩下這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13198.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13205.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我跟委員會來報告啦 其實院會這個決議交辦的這種凍結案 這個我們委員會沒有辦法來部分解凍啦所以你們剛才在那裡說一巴掌 我是好意跟你們說 我都不知道你們有一巴其實就算你們彼此同意也沒有用 就只有X跟NO而已嘛所以我不能調理都讓你們這樣那如果是全然的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13224.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13247.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
如果不能夠部分解凍的話,那就是全案,它就是沒有符合這個條件因為你們提到那個部分解凍,那個條件我抱歉跟你們說,那是不行的,那個對於整個委員會裡面的解凍案,那個是無效的條件怎麼會是無效的條件,我們都是在讀通過的法律預算案,這怎麼會是無效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13248.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13263.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
願廢絕育的凍結案,就是說,買的你就給通過,不然你就是繼續凍結,不然就說,你這樣沒有頭上那些願廢,過去凍一億,還是凍一千,你說不然就凍幾百萬就好,就不可以這樣處理了。所以任市長,你實在是黑白大英,你是黑白大英長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13272.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13275.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
過去都有這樣子的案例而且這個本來就是很清楚就草案不受立法院啊我真的不會去放水我每一案我一定跟大家如實的報告完問大家的意見好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13290.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13315.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
主席我先請教一下這聽起來是洞中之洞那我們過去在教文從來沒有聽過這樣的慣例或者是案例那我不知道是不是在司法法是有這樣的可能性好有人跟我說沒有所以我想就是請主席在座說明那我要提醒一下剛剛確實那個時間點如果歐美人非常堅持那是不是也許就休息兩分鐘去看一下那個IBOD因為剛剛第一時間我們已經喊出沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13316.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13329.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
然後主席就宣告了然後宣告之後翁委員才突然不知道是因為忙完手上的事情還是突然聽到了還是突然想到了所以才喊出來所以按照剛剛的程序確實習這件事情已經不應該再處理我們已經過了好那這是我剛剛在現場一直從剛剛做到現在我所聽到的狀況麻煩主席做出明確的採釋謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13341.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13353.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
是啦,我們真的是沒有辦法去併跟院會凍結的一個標的啦所以這個阿祥主要就是我問大家說沒有意義,有沒有意義,大家就說沒有意義,我不知道通過好不好,歐元不要緊張啦,這讓他再看要求他怎麼樣的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13360.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13381.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
法律的啦 中委員 對不對 今天條件寫在那裡是很清楚如果你說沒有辦法說是變成說小範圍 只改動一百萬那如果這樣子的說法的話 那動一千萬就一千萬就是等到草案送到立法院之後就立刻解動那一千萬 就這麼簡單啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13383.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13400.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
是 我懂你的意思我的意思就是我完全尊重這個跟我們是不是學法律真的無關因為院會做的決議它是凍結這個凍結數就是擺在那個地方那我們委員會你要去解凍的話就是要不要解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13402.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13412.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
就是要嘛就全部給他 不要嘛就全部都沒有那是因為你們說你們選一個一百萬這個不可以你說你要一千萬 我就給你一百萬就好或是因為這個原因這個條件其實它不應該成為一個解凍案的一個條件重點是在這個地方不然你說你要一千萬 我就給你一千萬那基本上我也不同意解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13427.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13433.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
這一千萬是 因為就是說你剛如果跟他說不同意我這一案我真的就會另案處理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13435.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13446.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
對 所以我就是沒有聽到你在唸這一案啊不是主席 剛剛你不是說下次開會注意聽好嗎下次開會注意聽就好 不會再辣掉了我們這邊很快的地方就唸過了而且剛剛一開始現在處理是法務部的對不對 然後你一下又跳回到監察院然後又人事行政總處你中間要有個時間讓大家可以回過神來然後知道說你現在唸哪邊啊好 我的錯 我的錯 好不好 拜託你 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13461.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13461.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
主席沒有錯啊 主席你幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13491.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13494.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
討論他 怎麼會是主席的責任呢從來就沒有 從來就沒有您的解凍條件我委員可能是比較沒有審查預算的經驗我委員恐怕比較沒有審查預算的經驗因為每一次的凍結你期待的條件不是啦 你剛剛沒有真心聽嘛剛剛我們四個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13517.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13523.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
那難道只有我們四個專心到嗎這不是很奇怪嗎我們都坐在這裡認真聽啊反正所有的案都要解凍不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13525.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13529.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
如果您這麼在乎 您剛剛為什麼不具履歷在剛剛開會的時候不專心聽呢從您剛剛開始 主席在講報告事項跟討論事項的時候您剛剛就沒有搞清楚 主席還跟您說前面是報告事項 後面才是討論事項所以主席我們要換駕啦我們希望這台車已經開走的過程先休息五分鐘 好 再溝通一下 休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13549.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13557.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
沒有啦 那真的是因為絕育的數那個數額 我們委員會不能用打折的方式啦休息一下 休息一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13921.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13948.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會啦因為有委員對第六案提出異議仍有意見啦那討論事項人總跟所屬及主管的預算解凍案我們就這樣子啦我們就做如下的決議啦第六案我們定期繼續處理啦一到五 七案 准以動之提拔願意 好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13951.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13976.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
這樣都有大家的意思啦OK來我們接續來進行討論事項有關考試院及所屬主管之預算解凍案的部分討論事項第8到第13案考試院及所屬主管114年度預算解凍案也已經報告及詢答完畢並已宣讀請問各位委員有無異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13978.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13993.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
好 如沒有異議的話我們就准予動之來提報院會那議程所列的事項均已處理完畢我們今天會議就到此結束我還沒發散會喔有準備便當來 我們現在散會 謝謝大家王委員這樣可以啦 |