| IVOD_ID |
166639 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166639 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-24T10:46:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-24T11:00:50+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8b793423fad44d6006c41927846b2bbb1d90d5b7b1a8c999d81c25c0c566a88af0fba3fac4fb75495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡其昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:46:40 - 11:00:50 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會及國家通訊傳播委員會就「社群平台打詐成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【12月22日及24日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席請林部長來 林部長請王執行秘書跟張主任王執行 張主任請委員好部長好 大家好皮還沒有繃緊我不是說你啦 |
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我說團隊屁還沒有崩盡這算喔還加沒案我想部長知道其他的各位長官本席在這裡我講過只要抒發部來我就只問詐騙謝謝主席今天特別排社群平台的這個打詐 |
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78.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
打詐是要國家隊每天把林部長罵到臭頭沒有啦 也沒辦法也沒辦法啦 還好啦一定要是一個團隊那本席的做法很簡單啦小紅書不管他來自哪裡啦他叫什麼小白書小綠書都一樣只要他在社群平台是國人喜歡用國人有一定比例在使用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
79.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
107.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
你們就要一致性的處理啦譬如說沒落地的你們應該直接法規規定嘛這涉及到我國家都用國家打炸打炸隊要來處理的為什麼我們不能夠去規定我在處理打炸我在處理犯罪偵查呢那國家的態度在法規上我講過很多遍你需要立法院立法的我們一定支持哪一個立委敢不支持打炸 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
136.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
哪一個政黨不支持打仗第二個你們不需要立法院立法你們透過你們的行政手段行政命令可以處理的要有一個整體性不能讓委員在這裡問你們還答得讓大家覺得好像你們自己也搞不清楚誰要處理什麼所以很簡單嘛第一個沒有落地的已讀不回的我就規定你什麼叫已讀不回 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
138.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
160.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你 你在包庇詐騙我都還要求你知道說我現在正在處理你不是 但我們做一個法治國家程序就是要講清楚程序就是這樣 譬如說我就是透過email送達我就是透過什麼樣的方式你留的什麼位置我幫你送達你接不接 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
162.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
181.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們國人涉及到法院通知他依照法院的程序把它做完了然後你去法院說啊 抱歉我出國沒收到你覺得這個理由可以嗎也不行嘛因為我們程序還是照這樣在走嘛是不是這樣子這個跟委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
211.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
有關於小紅書的部分 因為他為什麼會這次會針對這部分 因為其實比如說像剛剛委員講Telegram其實Telegram他比較接近通訊軟體 他的占部範圍通常都是一對一的部分 然後至於可以在公開的場合裡面會貼文會有不特定能看到的部分 除了這四大業者之外 再來的最多就是小紅書 因為前面四大業者的詐騙訊息雖然多 可是他已經有被列管了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
212.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
230.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
然後因為再來說對於沒有被納管的部分可是我們也不能期待說那沒有納管我們不能理他然後我們也確實的透過海基會發文給翔叔不是啦 你還是誤解我的意思啦我要你的是一個標準啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
231.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
246.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
譬如說我管你是社群軟體還是怎樣你在網路上有一定的社群有社群平台的意義你定義好就好嘛你把它定義好說你是網路上的社群平台或者有一定程度作為群組通訊軟體使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
270.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你自己定義嘛不會定義叫抒發部定義嘛那我這些我一律納管那我納管完之後我告訴你不管你人在美國在英國在俄羅斯在中國不管我的告知程序就是什麼你沒有按照我的告知程序我就辦法制的基礎在於一套標準大家都適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
295.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
不會因為他是中國啦 不是因為他叫小紅書這裡面有涉及到什麼統戰啊一大堆 沒有 我就是在打詐嘛所以我的法律程序完備 我告訴你程序是什麼我管你是Telegram 我管你是什麼臉書 什麼一大堆的譬如說我舉例 部長沒有落地的有多少家社群平台沒有落地 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
296.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
311.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為落地並不是一個精準的法律問題所以分成兩個方面來講第一個就是他在台灣有沒有設立子公司或分公司這是一種所謂的落地另外一種是設立法律代表那依照我們現在的炸房條例其實講的兩者都沒有的有多少家 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
313.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
341.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
太多了啦這個因為全世界我現在講說我們一定程度比例它叫做社群平台是這樣的社群平台有多少家在你們任職場不管叫大中小是因為我們就是依照我們納管那我們現在納管有四家公司七個平台那四家公司七個平台他們在台灣都是設立法律代表那我們要求他他才會來設立法律代表那巧鴻書有沒有設立法律代表沒有對嘛所以我的意思就是你們要把 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
342.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
345.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
要件都把它說清楚嘛你們到底在規範人家什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
373.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你列管的假設你列管叫做不管他大中小你們列管叫20家好了在20家裡面只要被你列管他一定要有什麼樣的程序譬如說他一定要有法律代表他一定要有子公司你們去把規定規定好讓所有在台灣經商不管他哪一國人來台灣要做生意要做網路的生意社群平台的生意他清楚知道我們的要件是什麼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
374.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
397.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那你不符合要件我就處理你嘛因為我在打詐你還不配合我就處理你我就在打詐裡面就相關組就把它規定好嘛是部長你現在懂我的意思嗎因為我們現在造訪條例第27條就是規定我們納管然後第29條就是規定納管以後他必須設立法律代表這在我們造訪條例裡面其實都有清楚的規定所以很簡單嘛解釋小紅書就是他沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
398.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
418.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
他被納管然後他沒有設立任何在台灣連法律代表都沒有因為他現在還達不到我們納管的標準所以目前小宏都不在我們要納管的所以你要清楚知道說那你要不要納管他嘛那你不納管你的要件是什麼你的對象是誰啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
418.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
435.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是 跟委員說明一下因為第27條到造訪條例27條到33條都是規範說我們數位發展部要如何去納管這些網路廣告平台但是這次內政部發出的這個文它是依照第42條並不是依照第27條到33條那依照第27條它的要件是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
439.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
462.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
請副署長說明報告委員127條我們在這個113年的9月的時候有做了一個公佈就是說什麼樣叫做達到一定規模的標準它有兩個要件第一個要件就是說如果經過165這邊來通報的高風險然後同時呢對 那小紅書符不符合因為我們沒有接到這個部分的通報然後另外一個條件是那小紅書你們依照第幾條 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
464.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
467.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
小紅書內政部依照第42條裡面的要件是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
475.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
報告委員我們的要件基本上就是為了要及時防治讓人民在持續去接觸這個詐欺網站所以我們要針對他的要件就是說因為他為了要防治詐欺那怕這網站持續在那邊讓很多人持續去接觸之後遭到受害那因為他本身就是規範在這一個只要是沒有納管的平台業者我們都會想方設法去用這條來去做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
500.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
514.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
對那你為什麼不把明確的達到一個什麼標準就符合42條他的標準就是委員就是前面講27條他沒到達他的獨立訪客數會到達我國人口的百分之五對他未到達放到未到達的37未到達的42對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
519.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
542.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不是不是基本上那個27條到這個有兩條路就是我們作為那個做出處置一個是說從27條到33條就書發部走一條路但是第41條裡面有42條裡面有規定就是說那個司法警察機關可以在緊急狀緊急案件的時候直接要求那個停止血清或限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
543.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
559.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
接取 所以這是兩條路 那我們剛才委員問我們這邊的我們是那個訴發部走的這一條路 那另外一條路從42條這個就是因為內政部警政署也是屬於司法警察機關的那個一部分所以他們用42條路好 那根據42條你們要怎麼通知他 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
563.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
586.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
邦委員因為他本身就是在我們台灣沒有法律代表所以我們在通知就無法通知那之前的部分在打壓中心這邊其實就是有先針對這個部分先行文去透過海基會帶轉所以我就跟你們講為什麼要這樣子為什麼不把42條弄明白為什麼不明確告訴你在符合4條我的要件就是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
587.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
605.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你不能等詐欺的人他都一直不接受通知那你要怎麼辦繼續被罵做一個民主法治的國家就是我很清楚告訴你你來我這裡我的法律對你要求的要件是什麼清清楚楚明明白白 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
606.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
634.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以你用一個緊急一下去處理我很贊成我講過嘛打炸我是沒有在管這個的啦我就是堅持我覺得人民在打炸上受害很嚴重所以你們要去處理是但是你們為什麼不把你怎麼知道未來還有一個有沒有可能小白書小綠書小藍書所以報告委員所以就是剛剛書發部有講說這個還有其他沒有納管的很多因為他未來網路世界會增加是啦那你為什麼不達到一個比例你就進入納管為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
636.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
646.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以比例是定在那個百分之五啊對 那為什麼你覺得小紅書都已經很嚴重了他雖然會打百分之三很嚴重你為什麼不把標準往下調 為什麼所以我們事實上其實是用一個概括性的就是說針對無法納管的就概括性的一個那你們就是很簡單 你的無法納管的你們又自己用很緊急的狀況去處理然後緊急的狀況去處理 程序是什麼又不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
666.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
688.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你現在懂我在講什麼嗎 我的意思是說 你們覺得很重要要處理了你們覺得5%的規範根本就遏制不了打炸那你們就應該調啊 為什麼不把法律完備呢讓社會質疑呢 讓很多委員同仁在這裡不斷的挑戰你們呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
690.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
716.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
本席就已經講過嘛 打詐沒有分藍綠嘛打詐也沒有分國籍 你在我中華民國在這裡你作為打詐集團的幫兇 作為他們的工具讓台灣人受害 我就是要處理你嘛是 謝委員 我們回去會做研究這個部分你們應該趕快把要件說清楚 我中華民國的法令就是如此我對打詐就是身惡痛絕 這是台灣人最痛恨的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
718.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
741.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
為什麼這麼痛恨的事情你們不把他當一回事 尬給他 把他頂給清除你要來我台灣做生意 我就是這樣要求你我讓你沒有模糊空間啊是誰會反對嗎 台灣人現在對你們要打詐嚴格大家是怎樣 社會輿論覺得不行 大家應該容忍打詐沒有嘛 大家很希望你拿出辦法來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
743.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
770.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
行政院也成立了是 詐欺的 打詐的警政署也有打詐的NCC也在打詐 各部會都在打詐連本席啊 說那個WBC的票啊我們去檢舉有人啊 在網路上賣那個根本就是假的欸 我看我們那個平台也轉到運動部欸請運動部查證這個平台是不是假的 是不是詐騙所以運動部也要打詐欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
771.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
789.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以叫國家對嘛國家在打詐都已經用國家力量在處理囉為什麼在法規的明確跟程序上還要在那邊緊急來緊急去呢我管你幾% 5% 5%沒辦法處理那些3%的我就降為3% 為什麼不能降為3% |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
792.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
819.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
3%再不行2%很嚴重都發生在這2%我就降了2%然後我就告訴你來我這裡做生意只要你這裡有幾%我就告訴你要件是什麼你已讀不回你在這裡沒有法律的代理人我就直接處理你甚至我規定你一定要有代理人這個就是我們要國家要做打詐我們要有辦法要嚴厲的手段嘛為什麼不行呢為什麼不做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
822.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
850.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
懂了吧 懂 謝委員 本是今天要講這個 是是 家無安啦 要再創 這樣不通啦是 謝委員 台灣人民不能接受我們每天隨機殺人 人民很恐慌啊但是隨機殺人的機率跟打炸 他幾乎每天可以可以接觸到歹徒耶 他每天在面對打炸的時候 他幾乎每天面對歹徒耶很嚴重啦 好不好是 謝謝委員 是 |