| IVOD_ID |
166616 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166616 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-24T10:00:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-24T10:11:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8b793423fad44d60c37c5a17166f90ee1d90d5b7b1a8c99991760b03f9a190b7091ed520d06e93fd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
何欣純 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:00:42 - 10:11:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會及國家通訊傳播委員會就「社群平台打詐成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【12月22日及24日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝昭緯 孟凱那我們是不是請我們數位發展部我們林部長林宜靜部長請蘇委員早安 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
15.049 |
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部長早在進入我今天專案報告的防詐騙的主題之前我想大家都很關心因為今天一早就發現應該是說一早從媒體我們知道張文的孤狼式的犯罪他籌劃了很久他連續購買了13把長短刀全部靠網購 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.092 |
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68.132 |
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我們在談詐騙的時候就是在所謂的網路社群平台的一個交易行為我們要設斷點希望能夠教民眾市詐 防詐 阻詐但是我們現在又出現了一個議題就是原來我們可以看到張文孤郎市的一個犯案他的所有的一個犯罪工具都來自於網購 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
70.134 |
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93.754 |
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部長你對這個事情你的第一個看法是那我們要應該跟網路平台第一個你說下禮拜一要喝咖啡要談要談什麼第二個我們是不是應該檢討我們現在這個所有的平行輸入或者是呢小包裹輸入的一個機制政府該不該來好好的來檢討為什麼我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
96.596 |
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114.728 |
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沒有辦法第一時間即時性的察覺原來有這些危險物品是透過網路透過海關透過這樣子的一個交易行為這個SOP到底政府能不能有效的去預防跟嚇阻 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.854 |
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123.658 |
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是非常同意那個委員的看法不過跟委員報告我不是下個禮拜要跟他們談我是上個禮拜一前天已經跟他們談過了可是上個禮拜一談的時候這個禮拜一啦這個禮拜一啦部長你之前搞不清楚哪一個禮拜一不重要重要的是談論的議題是什麼有談出什麼結果 |
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139.146 |
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對 OK 我正要跟委員報告那就是說基本上我們網路上購買一些物品有些是管制品管制品通常是不能直接購買但是有些就是介於這種有風險的譬如說刀子這種產品那我們現在的方向是說第一個就是說我們應該把這些產品分類有些產品是應該是用實名制或者是類實名制才能購買 |
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164.74 |
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189.709 |
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那我们现在刚好速发部推出一个数位凭证皮夹的机构这个可以用来认证那个购买者的身份就是说到底是谁购买了这个产品然后我现在要提到这个我当然愿意支持但是呢所谓的这个品相的认定除了数位发展部跟其他部会要跨部会的来认定什么叫做类危险或者是需要 |
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190.729 |
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207.687 |
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类管理的这样子的品相我刚刚讲的张文他透过网购买了13把长短刀那他的时间长达一年多那如果按照我们现在国人的安全跟防卫心理 |
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208.167 |
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222.509 |
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是期待政府能夠提出有效的因應方法來防止有下一次的這樣子的一個網購13把長短刀的個案出現是 這個可以從三個方面來處理 |
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223.75 |
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251.57 |
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清楚的講清楚我們有三個方式來處理第一個就是說在對於這個比較危險的這些物品我們那個應該是說在購買的時候他如果沒有做出身份證明的話我就不讓他購買這是一種方式那另外一種方式是說他可以購買但是他必須留下他的那個身份證明資料那到時候如果發生事情呢發生了事情我們的警政單位還可以去搜查那另外一點就是 |
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253.158 |
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280.606 |
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當然沒有人會希望發生事情然後另外一個就是說他如果購買的數量不合常理的話那我們可以利用AI的方式或者是資料匯流的機制我們去查說一般人不會買13把刀這個是一個異常的狀況那我們就可以去主動去偵查那這個事情當然是說是內政部警政署這邊他們主責但是我們事務發布作為一個技術的機關我們一定會全力配合然後主動去找出方法來解決這些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.186 |
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306.393 |
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那這件事要花多久的時間來研擬這個事情如果說技術上的話那我們當然是說馬上就去做的話快的話是半年慢的話是一年但是跟委員報告我是來自於科技界我是來自於產業界這個事情我沒辦法說我下個禮拜就可以就給你這個真是沒有辦法但是我的意思是說你要跟內政部其他跨部會的會議最近一次要什麼時候開會 |
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307.762 |
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328.936 |
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OK我想這個一個月之內我們找他開會絕對沒有問題我們非常主動的第一個我建議禁訴一個月對我們而言對國人而言還太慢了禁訴找來開會把你剛剛講的需要類管理的品項有哪些需要實名制或者是你的數位皮夾制的一個推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.217 |
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357.693 |
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你剛剛講的三個方式要馬上有一個結論來告訴國人讓國人可以安心是政府是有效的有積極的作為希望能夠防止因應是非常同意委員的看法非常同意所以不要一個月趕快等一下離開這個會場就趕快跟內政部約談怎麼樣來研擬這個防治的機制好不好好沒問題好那接著詐騙是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
360.137 |
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376.488 |
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行動支付有九成人在使用的這個是支撐會的報告那我簡短行動支付分兩種第三方支付跟電子支付第三方支付誰監管我們抒發部監管就是你嘛好我今天就要談第三方支付的事情那下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
378.228 |
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390.616 |
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涉及洗錢的事你也知道嗎這個我根據媒體講的最近這幾年來光是就有12344家的一個第三方支付的平台洗錢的案例協助詐團不罰業者洗錢超過800億 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
406.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是我要根據你們訴發部提供給本席的資料你說你們針對第三方支付涉洗錢都有在積查本年度共裁罰10家業者裁罰金額總計280萬元這兩個數字看起來差很大第三方支付協助詐團不罰業者洗錢超過800億 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.78 |
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423.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
結果我們速發部說我們有在做事我們有在稽查我裁罰了10家業者我裁罰的是283萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
428.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
440.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
跟委員報告這幾家就是我們主動集合查出來的是我們主動發現的所以這個事實上就是義配 旺配大還有台灣禮這幾家都是我們主動發現的不是我們事後發現第一個我要建議你主動發現了那你要讓國人知道這是政府積極作為主動發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
451.633 |
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459.418 |
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我跟你講你沒講沒人知道這是你們主動發現的第二個招開記者會還不夠招開記者會還不夠第二個你們裁罰的金額相對的少 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
482.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這讓人家看起來一個是被民眾被詐團被不法業者洗錢的這個金額超過800億我們10家業者的裁罰283萬元是 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
487.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
511.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我覺得這個不符合比例當然我不知道你們的行政裁量權是如何我是建議你們第一個主動的發現第三方支付涉及洗錢是你們主動通報那這個除了記者會之外應該要用各式各樣的方式讓國人知道政府是積極的在打擊不法第二個我覺得裁法的行政的一個基準是不是應該調整這個你們去研議下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
514.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
532.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但是我還是要提醒在你們給我的報告說2024年完成了百分之百針對第三方支付的查核但是你看喔根據媒體根據檢調的查案合法的第三方支付還是替詐團博弈洗錢80億 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
536.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
553.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
跟委員報告有關這一件就是國生的這一塊其實事實上他在最早112年9月的時候做這個能量登錄之後其實事實上我們有進行過三次的這個行政檢查每次所以是只有行政檢查你的這一句話告訴我們只有行政檢查然後我們把 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
555.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
582.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
對我們其實是進行要求他的一些限期改善並且把相關的資訊會提供給檢調單位去做一個這個查核然後另外呢這家公司就是因為他後來發現說他這個部分他其實不符合相關的規定他也已經沒有辦法依照我們的限期來做改善他自己來申請廢止這個能量登錄所以他在二月已經廢止能量登錄他就不能提供就是他不能提供虛擬帳號 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
583.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
594.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
來進行他第三方支付這樣的一個業務然後之後再讓這個檢警調來將他這整個的我們有做情資的一些交換你有做情資的交換交換給 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
597.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
619.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
已經交給好了那你就講說是你的情資提供給減掉嘛那我們現在要講是合法的第三方支付呢涉及洗錢涉及博弈那這些呢涉及不法的我覺得我們要勇於舉發嘛對不對他原來是合法他如果做了不該不合法的事情就已經不是合法所以國人會對這個產生那個信任的問題啊我最後一個就是要告訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
621.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
639.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
速發部事實上很多的這個信任的對第三方支付不信任或者是常發生一些問題我覺得在正面的這個積極的讓消費者知道說他如何自保權益這部分速發部也應該要廣大的宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
641.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
663.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
沒錯 現在第三方支付他們也成立了一個協會那他們這些優良的廠商 正派的廠商他們也非常的積極在宣傳這件事情因為他們就是希望跟那些不良的不法的廠商把它切割 區隔出來所以我們現在努力跟第三方支付的協會合作擴大宣導好 以上 會後再給我剛剛要的資料好不好 謝謝 |