| IVOD_ID |
16658 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16658 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-08T08:31:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-08T11:39:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:07:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea1a3f2a9ffa30080483679203eefbeec014bfadd538e1bbbf58c8c67674b1d1865ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長、國家住宅及都市更新中心董事長就「都市更新與危老重建之執行成效及未來展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「都市更新條例增訂第四十四條之一條文草案」案。三、審查委員賴惠員等23人擬具「都市危險及老舊建築物加速重建條例第三條及第十一條條文修正草案」案。【第一案至第三案綜合詢答並處理法律提案。】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:32 - 11:39:00 |
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MING PAO CANADA MING PAO TORONTO |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1906.687 |
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1916.577 |
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大家早安 請主任秘書報告出席人數出席委員9人 移組法定人數報告委員會 我們現在開會 進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1917.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1940.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
立法院第十一届第三会期内政委员会第十七次全体委员会议议事录时间一百十四年五月七日星期三上午九十四分至十三十一分地点红楼一二会议室出席委员苏巧慧委员等十二人练习委员钟嘉斌委员等十二人请假委员黄建斌委员高金素美委员二人练习官员中央全局委员会主任委员李静永及相关人员主席牛兆基委员许婷 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1941.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1965.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
报告事项宣读上次会议议事录决定确定二邀请中央选举委员会主任委员列席报告业务概况并备质询中央选举委员会主任委员李静永报告委员苏巧慧等18人质询由中央选举委员会主任委员李静永及相关人员答复说明决定一登记发言委员除不在场者外其余均已发言完毕询答结束二委员王美惠高金苏梅翁晓琳及丁学忠等四人所听书面质询列入记录刊登公报 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1966.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1983.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
三 书面质询及位及答复部分请相关机关于一周内另以书面答复并复制本会通过临时提案三案宣读完毕好 谢谢请问各位委员上次会议议事录有错误或遗漏之处没有没有 好 谢谢议事录确定继续进行本次议程请宣读 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1986.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2010.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
报告事项二邀请内政部部长国家住宅及都市更新中心董事长就都市更新与为老重建之执行成效及未来展望进行专题报告并被质询讨论事项一审查委员牛许婷等17人拟据都市更新条例增订第44条之一条文草案案二审查委员赖会员等23人拟据都市危险及老旧建筑物加速重建条例第三条及第11条条文修正草案案宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2012.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2038.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本日議程所列報告事項與討論事項我們合併詢答現在介紹在場委員及列席官員首先是張志倫委員黃美惠委員李柏毅委員還有黃婕委員官員部分我們內政部劉思芳部長國土管理署吳興修署長還有我們國家住宅及都更中心花敬群董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2039.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2056.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
還有我們的老朋友法務部參事廖蔣賢好現在我們賴慧如委員今天有過來嗎好那我們提案就暫不先進行說明沒關係我們先直接就請內政部長劉思芳針對今天的題目進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2062.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2080.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
各位委員大家早主席各位委員女士先生因為今天早上有兩個報告案成了委員會的指示我就把兩個報告案非常簡單的跟大家做一下報告首先是報告有關於都市更新及危勞重建政策的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2080.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2105.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那因為本部就這個執行成效及未來展望要進行專題報告所以我就先把這個部分跟大家做一個扼要的說明第一個就是有關於都市更新的部分那為了改善都市機體的衰退的問題內政部從健全重要機制解決實務困境強化程序正義等三大面向全面檢討都市更新條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2106.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2127.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那簡稱都更條例在108年公佈修正權文為了強化公辦都更機制及擴大政府的量能在107年制定公佈國家住宅及都市更新中心設置條例並且成立了行政法人國家住宅及都市更新中心那簡稱國家住住中心投入有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2128.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2151.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
公辦都市更新事業的整合投資及實施又為了精進都市更新的推動政策並且訂定了都市更新發展計畫從112年到115年的各項執行策略那有關於持續檢討都市更新相關法令的部分在110年修正公佈都更條例第57條及第65條針對海沙屋或者耐震不足等有危險疑慮的建築物 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2158.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2182.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
地方政府得免經協調程序禁與強制拆除放寬容積額度到1.3倍原建築容積113年修正公佈都更條例第65條放寬實施容積管制前合法建築物的原容積適用範圍協助有危險疑慮建物加速更新第二是有關於持續推動都市更新發展的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2183.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2201.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
以檢討強化政府主導都市更新機制精進專責機構推動都更模式還有改善民間都市更新輔導機制都更知識推廣及人才培育執行並檢討中高樓層危險建築物都市更新推動機制等五大策略持續來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2203.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2225.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
第三有關於精進簡化都更流程的部分都更條例以簡化作業無爭議者即可免除一定的程序另外已經完成修訂都市更新作業手冊讓作業程序標準化明確化以減少執行的疑義第四延長都更稅捐減徵實施的期限行政院在112年12月29日發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2228.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2249.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
命令延长减增房屋税土增税及契税实施期限自112年2月1日至118年1月30日止以鼓励所有权人参与都市更新第五有关推动0403赠灾重建的部分0403赠灾奉行政院指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2249.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2274.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
内政部立即成立0403花莲赈灾重建专案办公室辅导花莲县政府健全都更为老重建机制以及成立辅导团目前已经协助天王星大楼及统帅大楼寻自办都更方式重建并且已经成立更新会并取得花艺尊社区北洞全部所有权人同意以公办都更方式办理重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2275.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2295.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第六,有关于都市更新执行成效的部分,截至114年3月底止,全国累计核定的都更案即1222件,成效稳健成长当中。二,在公办都更方面,目前全国招商成功案件即89件,投资金额即6004亿元。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2297.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2325.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
其中国家住住中心已经完成公开评选并签约案件计14案投资金额达898亿元114年预计公开评选案件计6案预估投资金额有230.1亿元第三每年都更案取得绿建筑标章者占86.43%预计平均每年减碳成效计0.10万公顿 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2326.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2355.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第四113年訂定大專院校開設都市更新學分學程補捐助要點並且補助了五所大專院校開設都市更新學分學程第二有關圍牢重建的部分為都市建物因為潛在的災害風險加速危險及老舊建築物重建並且改善居住環境在106年5月10日公佈施行都市危險及老舊建築物加速重建條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2356.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2372.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
具申请简单快速核准奖励明确这些优点并且提供税间减免及金融协助等措施鼓励都市计划范围内的维老可以加速重建持续检讨维老条例的相关法令 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2373.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2393.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
109年5月6日因應違老條例三年實成獎勵屆期修正了第3條第6條第8條延長實成獎勵到114年5月11日及新增規模獎勵112年12月6日新增第5條之一明定公有土地及建築物原則參與重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2395.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2418.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
114年3月4日修正都市危险及老旧建筑物建筑容积奖励办法第二条及第12条之一扩大原建筑容积的认定范围第二有关于提供建筑物耐震能力评估重建计划成立为老重建辅导团等经费补助以及重建融资信用保证信用保证等协助自108年起 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2420.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2442.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
内政部每年编列7000余万元补助建筑物耐震能力评估,3000万元补助宁定重建计划,2000万元补助各地方政府成立专业辅导团队,培训维老人才总共有2.3万人次,及协助了538件维老重建计划提案的申请。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2443.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2462.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
并且以中央都市更新基金提拨1亿元作为重建工程融资贷款的信用保证给予民众财务协助迄今核准78件民众贷款信用保证保证金额约1.3亿元第三推广维老重建政策维老重建案稳定成长 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2463.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2481.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
內政部持續每年辦理法令講習透過多元宣傳管道跟產業界的合作宣導危老重建的政策在中央地方政府及各界積極的推動之下到114年3月抵止全國累計完成結構安全性能評估有 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2481.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2501.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
一万九千九百二十八件受理重建计划申请案四千五百零八件核准案有四千一百九十七件重建计划案逐年稳定成长另外国家驻足中心办办理围牢协参案件有十五案另有两案于前期作业阶段 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2502.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2521.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第四有關協助0403鎮後重建的部分透過危老重建簡便快速的申請程序協助0403花蓮鎮災建築物並且補助地方政府成立輔導團鎮災後立即對受災民眾提供重建評估及相關法令諮詢服務逐步的輔導個案規劃重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2524.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2541.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在未来展望的部分,透过检讨都更及维老重建相关法令及机制,补助地方政府相关经费,以及提供支持民众参与都市更新维老重建,还有透过举办教育讲习增进全民都更知能及知识。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2542.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2566.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
持续补助大专院校开设都市更新学分学程以提供都更人才的值与量在公办都更已经辅导地方政府成立专案办公室推动公办都更相关政策增加公办都更的效益国家住住中心也持续朝向强化政府推动都市更新量能建构完善民间辅导 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2566.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2567.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
继续的适用范围容积奖励 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2592.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2610.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
機制與項目及配套獎勵措施等修法方向並且持續與外界進行意見交流跟溝通未來的法制作業程序為依序報送大院來審查再來因應有關高齡者及老屋內政部將推動老宅延壽計畫針對無危險疑慮的老舊建宅補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2614.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2641.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
民众修缮房屋公共区域及室内空间并且结合卫福部长照3.0使长者在宅安心养老避免患物的困扰同时配合国家净零检探政策会持续与各界沟通内容完备以后将报请行政院核定具以执行以上是有关于第一案在展望的部分以及在检讨过去的部分提供给各位委员女士先生参考 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2645.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2656.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
謝謝 沒關係 第二段我們參酌書面好不好條例不用報告對 條例的部分我們書面的部分來參酌就可以了好 那報告委員會現在謝謝劉思芳部長的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2657.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2681.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
其他單位報告自行參閱並刊登公報現在我們進行詢答委員諮詢前原力做一下幾點宣告第一本會委員發言時間五分鐘必要時延長兩分鐘非本會委員發言時間五分鐘上午十點三十分截止發言登記今天法案處理我們就不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見沒有好謝謝現在進行詢答我們首先請登記第一位蘇巧慧委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2693.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2696.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好謝謝主席我們請劉世芳劉部長劉部長有請今天我們要談這個都市更新的部分那其實我想大家都非常的重視那其實我們可以看到其實在行政院的網站上面呢都市更新條例這個也甚至是一個非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2718.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2742.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
行政院列為重要的政策就是希望能夠全面提升都更的量能那部長剛剛也報告很多可是我們再繼續看下去都市更新條例裡面重要修法面向有減民都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化政府主導這四個面向部長你覺得現在是穩健的四個方向都做得很好還是有哪一個方向比較帶加強的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2743.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2748.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我想在 不然修法要修哪一個方向在公部門跟民間企業就是有意願推動的這個都更的部分這個部分可能還多做溝通因為這持續要了解有意願 你認為是民間意願不夠嗎不是 有意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2759.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2773.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
但是他們對於了解行政程序上面的問題包括容積啦或者是整個的建築法令上面的規範一般人啦比較沒有這個專業的譬如說建築師或者是其他的這些公會了解那麼多那必須要多溝通但是我們也很樂見看到說地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2778.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2795.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
陸陸續續也都成立有關都市更新的專責單位包括北市新北市都有成立都市更新處那其他有八個縣市政府也成立都市更新的相關的科組我覺得這樣子對民眾有意願的來講的話他們在諮詢層面上可以提供相當好的法令上的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2795.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2823.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好部長我接受你這段談話不過你現在的講法呢正是我今天想要跟你討論的問題因為從你剛剛的這段談話我中整起來一句話應該是你認為讓我們都市更新加快加大其實是擴大案量也就是擴大讓民間的熟識度以至於進來的案量更大我可以簡化成這樣嗎你是要鼓勵民間更快送大進來以加快都更當然我們不只鼓勵還有講理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2825.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2852.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
因為我今天想要告訴你討論討論的其實就是我們這個都市更新條例是從1998制定到現在經歷了13次修法然後2019全文修正後每年都在修嘛每次其實這是一個算是良性的修法因為它都是在精進可見得我們重視可是你看看我們現在各縣市的都市更新案件是什麼狀況呢在四大階段裡面按照這個網站上面我們這樣看到的狀況其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2854.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2881.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
在等待都委會審定的案件量反而是最多的以全國來講停留在就是他成立了這個都市更新會這是整合民間意見嘛送件然後再來的話報縣市政府的都市更新委員會等待審議這是第二階段然後都委會審議完成之後送地方政府的核定是第三階段嘛然後就核定然後就可以開始開工嘛我沒有搞錯的話確實是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2882.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2898.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那麼現在大部分的案件其實是停在都委會的審議當中啊而且如果我們從2021年到2024年這樣來看的話其實等待都委會審定的案量是一直在增加的而核定的案件量 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2899.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2921.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
和等待審議的數字其實顯不相當那這個狀況會是什麼就是部長您剛剛所說的其實民間已經在政府這幾年的鼓勵甚至是告知之下大部分的人已經有這個了解有這個意願而且一直在進來了所以案件量反而是一直在進來但後面塞車了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2922.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2947.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我認為是塞車了所以我們也接到不少的陳情暗示到底要怎麼去加速整個都市更新的程序那我現在就是看到政府這邊提出的我覺得政府也很有誠意啦因為剛剛在說的這個減民都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化這麼多這都是為了要促進它的速度嘛可是事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2949.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2972.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
數字就是呈現在給我們看部長或者是署長你怎麼看這樣的現象感謝委員垂詢的確因為在整個都更的審議過程當中其實往往不是只有都市計劃審議也有包含都更審議也有包含交評在有些案子大的時候甚至會涉及到環評所以過去的地方政府他們比較習慣就是線性式的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2973.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2989.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那先進式的審查就很容易因為各委員會之間的意見不一致往往會讓很多文件來來回回的退主要講到重點了嘛所以其實我們在逛當中其實都有鼓勵地方能夠併審的話就併審尤其是都市設計跟交評兩個如果可以併審其實是會減低很多的困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2994.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3000.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
署長你在這裡的話就是確實把他這個內行人講門道啦剛剛在等待都市更新委員會地方政府這一層的審議其實就拆成了這麼多細項這樣子要分頭下去審如果是線性審查和能夠整併加速時間這個就不一樣所以這個是否包含在你的簡化審議程序當中呢看起來是不像不是喔 不一樣喔因為像交品跟都市設計它就是純屬地方事務的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3022.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3031.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我們在中央的法規裡面比較沒有辦法規範所以我們過去在檢討作業當中都是用鼓勵的方式鼓勵他們把這些部分能夠併審的話就併審來減輕這過程中這個申請人的苦難好署長我覺得你現在的回答很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3037.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3054.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
但是能不能你這段話是到地方政府執行我覺得如果只有鼓勵的話那現在已經實施了幾年就是現在這樣的狀況嘛所以我作為立法委員我在這裡就是看到這樣的現象我提出垂詢嘛我提出質詢嘛那我認為既然內政部是作為這整件事情的中央主管機關那現在鼓勵不夠了 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3057.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3085.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
問題還在那我們是不是可以提出指引啊或者有什麼其他的方向我們現在簡單講就是要去等待排隊收銀的人要去付錢的人太多了結果收銀台塞住了現在就是廣播在請求資源嘛對啊 就是請求收銀資源現在就是請求審議資源這樣的狀態所以到底有什麼方式甚至是根本你的審議委員會的量能是不是應該增加一個縣市可以多成立幾組我覺得這都是可行的方法啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3086.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3109.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
如果我們一直鼓勵民間那按量一直來對不對那中間這段卡住了那其實反而是造成民怨的狀況因為一等都是用年計算的我覺得這個狀況實在是值得考慮啊署長甚至部長你覺得今天這段談話你們會做什麼樣的反饋感謝啦感謝委員我想我們第一個當然是在檢討會裡面主要提出來第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3110.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3126.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我想在我們過去有很多審議的注意事項那我們或許在跟地方政府協調我們更改成相關的作業指引那尤其是在做相關的程序的時候能夠簡化或是併審的制度兩個併行 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3128.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3142.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
變成說在你最好三四個委員會一次提出來讓這個業主能夠做一次性比較一致性的修正我覺得你今天講得非常清楚甚至連提出指引都講出來了那這樣的話是不是可以有明確的啟程 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3144.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3162.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我想我們今年這個年度就來做這樣就是半年左右嘛今年年底前完成指引啦好不好而且甚至是已經就應該開始實施順便一邊看有什麼要檢討的一邊走一邊做指引然後年底前提出指引好我們來做這樣好謝謝署長謝謝署長謝謝蘇強惠委員下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3175.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3182.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳部長跟吳興修署長謝謝 劉部長吳署長有請張委員早 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3188.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3207.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
好 部長好 署長好好 今天要討論的是這個都市更新跟危老重建的相關的議題那剛剛公安部長特別提到在這個內政部在明年度即將推動老宅延壽計劃這是一個新的計劃我覺得非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3207.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3232.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
主要是為了讓民眾修善房屋公共區域以及室內空間提供補助以及未來會結合衛福部長照3.0讓長者在宅安心養老那我們也可以看到齁最近的這個新聞稿齁我放在桌上我去拿一下時間暫停一下抱歉時間暫停資料太多了好謝謝主席齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3237.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3265.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那我們在這個內政部在3月5號的新聞稿裡面更明確的講出內政部在今年2月的時候的記者會有宣布要全新的一個政策叫做老屋延壽計劃針對30年以上四到六樓的房子初步提供全面的這個住宅提供室內外的修繕經費包含管線更新建物立體立面修繕就是我們俗稱的拉皮 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3268.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3293.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
屋頂防水增設電梯增加無障礙設施等等補助上限是50%屆時想要延長我們建屋的使用年限我覺得這些都非常利益良善那這個內容其實剛剛部長有特別提到內政部會與這屆持續溝通在內容完備以後會請行政院核定必據執行那現在的狀況來講應該是還在研議當中嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3296.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3316.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那可是我們現在因為看到因為川普的關稅政策我們編列了一個4100億的一個特別預算我們看到裡面的老宅修繕這個部分就是內政部現在還在研議的這個部分有規劃了50億鎖定了500棟的老舊集合住宅來去做這樣子的一個補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3318.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3336.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
現在我先跟部長報告這個計劃因為我相信這個4100億的現在特別預算這個三個黨都有提出版本那本黨現在也是支持這樣老一年瘦的一個部分不過因為這個計劃原本是在115年要來推的這個計劃不管是放在公務預算公建計劃還是放在基金裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3336.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3359.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那現在是要把它提早列為特別預算裡面那所以等一下要請教部長就是說是不是因為特別預算會有一個急迫性或是一個特別必要性那是不是就是在內政部裡面就準備好了要把它放在特別預算的裡面嗎那民眾可以來運用的時候它的整體的計畫你們是不是已經整個都已經規劃好了請部長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3361.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3364.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
謝謝張委員的關心也非常謝謝張委員的支持確實沒有錯我們在跟國發會請議的時候有提到老宅延壽原先是要放到115年開始的年度預算但是後來因為國發會他也發布了現在我們台灣已經進入超高齡的社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3380.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3407.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那我們也提到就是有關社宅的部分社宅在請這個老人家自己在搬出去到社宅的時候他們不願意離開原來的這個生活區域所以我們就提到老宅延壽這樣子的一個概念那獲得各界的支持因為我們跟相關的工會跟單位都有進行過這方面的溝通那所以現在老宅延壽牽涉到三個面向第一個就是我們自己在內政部裡面有關於建築物本體是否安全可以做這個老宅延壽的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3408.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3432.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
第二個就是衛福部因為他們在長照3.0的時候也要照顧老人家所以老人家在居家裡面的修繕室內修繕也會列入是屬於這個老宅延壽裡面重要的一部分那再來就是有關於老宅延壽也會牽涉到我們應應氣候變遷的節能減碳譬如說老宅有老的電線那個地方一定是非常耗電然後也非常危險性會高 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3433.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3460.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
所以我們這個三項一起進行的時候呢行政院認為可以列入這次的特別預算所以給予50億元這樣子的Quota讓內政部跟其他部位來解釋的確啦因為這4100億原本是因應川普的關稅政策那剛剛在部長解釋雖然說跟川普的關稅政策的相連性不是那麼的高可是因為現在其實台灣社會因為老宅比較多是有需要的所以部長的解釋是OK不過現在要請教部長的就是說因為是列在特別的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3461.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3477.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那剛剛我剛有特別跟您報告過在115年的時候補助上限以每一個民眾來講補助上限是50%那請教一下在特別預算的裡面因為過去在特別預算裡面如果申請補助的時候補助的上限都是100% |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3478.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3499.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
就我的了解是不是都百分之百那這樣子補助會不會有一個這個網內互打一個問題就是我去申請特別預算的時候補助會提較高那我去115年申請公務預算的時候補助只有50%這樣子的落差還有裡面中間的還有等一下請教這些是補助預算的部分先來做請教等一下再做細項的部分來去做請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3500.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3508.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
其實我們有設算 這兩者之間應該不會有矛盾內容詳細大概補助的金額的比例大概是怎麼樣我們會訂高限其實要不要50%不是特別預算的問題說明一下 因為它過程當中是會有發包的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3523.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3552.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以我們現在在定這個部分的時候我們大概會區分為公共區域跟市內區域來做不同的設算比例設算因為公共區域是屬於整棟大樓要共有所以它會有所謂是不是屬於公共發包的問題那但是市內修繕的部分它屬於個案申請的部分那是可以作為調整的所以這個部分我們會有做好比較詳細的設算以後也會跟行政院做報告所以它是可以允許不同比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3552.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3572.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以我的意思是說會不會在115年的時候老屋延壽計劃因為這次115年老屋延壽計劃你們的新聞稿說補助上限就50%那現在在特別預算的裡面因為特別預算是比較寬鬆的允許有不同射算所以有不同射算所以民眾會不會申請特別預算的時候的補助會比較高比較多會不會有這樣的問題是有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3574.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3591.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這邊就是我要請署長跟部長去了解的那這樣子的話大家都會趕著去申請特別預算那特別預算有個特別的點是在116年的12月31號到期所以變成說可能就是說那這樣我們的公務預算可能就會兩邊會有一個差異就民眾會覺得說用特別預算的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3592.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3606.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
可能補助比較多就一股大家就申請特別預算那公務預算的部分就可能沒有人申請那這樣會變成這個內政部在編列預算的時候會使用這個執行率會稍微較差一點所以這邊提醒署長一下好不好那第二個問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3607.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3633.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
老屋老宅延售這個計畫非常的好那可是過去民眾都知道就是說在一些比較舊型社區的部分過去政府的一些補助就是比如說外牆拉皮或是一些電梯等等的一個部分那我請教說以項目來講會不會過去的一些我們有一些老屋拉皮或是電梯跟現在我們新的這個全新的這個老屋老宅延售的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3634.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3656.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
他的申請的項目是不是有些重複那未來內政部或國土署這邊是不是可以做一個區分跟我們報告最主要他是因為程序上不同他程序上就有點像現在的都更裡面有分都更跟危老兩種制度一樣那第一個對象不同因為我們大概是四到六樓他比較沒有內政疑慮的那第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3656.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3672.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
就是說他是不一定要經過管委會的那都更整委他是必須要透過管委會所以他相對是規模比較大那這種是允許小規模的可能他是十幾戶或甚至只有八戶那這樣的方式其實是可以加速他來申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3673.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3696.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那第三個就是說內容上其實對這一個特別條例來講它可以整修的項目範圍更廣那同意比例是不是比如說未來使用老屋顏色同意比例是不是要百分之百以一整棟樓來講同意比例大概多少大概百分之百嘛所以應該還是有它的困難不過我很樂見不管是內政部或國土署放寬未來老屋 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3697.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3725.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
導入整修的一個整個範圍那過去其實大家也有說很多公共空間比如說連燈都沒有辦法燈都是不亮的其實這些都有機會納入整個未來的整個範圍內是好謝謝那我本席是樂見這樣子的一個測試那最後的問題就是再請教一下因為剛剛也特別提到零四零三大地震那已經從去年已經發生了一年那請教部長跟署長有沒有統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3726.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3752.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
之前被列成紅單跟黃單的部分現在整個的處理進度如何是不是還是很多的房子想要重建或者是現在很多的住戶因為已經被列成紅單跟黃單不管是他的這個所持有的財產的資產的價值減損那現在也沒有辦法住在裡面等等問題那現在這樣子的問題是不是你們統計還有多少那未來你們會考慮要怎麼樣解決這些這些受災戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3753.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3781.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
了解 感謝委員 其實在因為本部大概專注在處理這一個花蓮的部分花蓮目前大概都有進入程序當中不管他是走那一陣補強或者是走重建的部分都有進入到程序那我知道現在在新北那也有部分在桃園因為住戶意見整合的過程當中有比較辛苦所以縣市政府都很努力但是也有卡到意見整合的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3782.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3804.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
你們有沒有想說剛剛有說當然我是一個大家可以討論剛剛有提到特別的要公辦督工不知道是不是一個很好的方式那在其他縣市是不是慢慢有機會就是說政府怎麼樣去協助有沒有一些考量這個部分我想我們來了解一下看雙北就是新北跟桃園看它目前的過程當中大致上有遇到什麼樣的問題那我們看來了解看看是不是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3805.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3828.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
能夠給予一些協助主席最後一個問題我常跟部長跟署長建議跟拜託的因為因應0403大地震之後其實很多的房子尤其台灣很多的年紀比較已經三四十年以上的屋齡的房子非常的多我一直在討論像現在這樣的特別條例特別的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3829.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3855.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
或是未來的整個的公務預算是不是有可能加入一些老屋建檢一些初檢的一個方式來把它擴大到就是說我不知道我的房子未來這個比如說四層樓五層樓六層樓的老宅未來能不能因應幾級的地震那比如說我的房子我可以來跟政府單位申請這個老屋建檢的一些補助然後未來可以知道說我的房子現在未來的狀況怎麼樣讓整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3858.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3881.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
跟委員報告啦 其實我們現在就有這樣的一個制度啦 因為那每年大家編入多少預算 民眾好不好申請我們其實都是受理 然後每年額度其實都夠那但是目前來講 全台灣申請大概只有接近兩萬件兩萬件 因為大概出品的部分大概是一萬二到一萬五那當然普遍 可能會是有些民眾會擔心 會 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3884.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3906.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
建檢出來的結果如果不理想的話很可能會影響自己的房屋價值所以我們到目前編列有預算但是事實上申請的數量沒有很多那署長這邊未來要推廣嗎還是說未來總不能說每次遇到地震以後在這些受災戶都很辛苦根文報告我們在做老宅延壽這個案子的時候其實同步也是在做這個建檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3907.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3922.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
也就是說他有耐震的出品出品這一個部分都有納入一起來實施所以民眾如果有興趣的話其實都來申請我想我們都會所以在做老宅健檢的時候意思就是說你們會推廣就是老屋健檢好 謝謝部長署長 謝謝謝謝張志倫委員下一位我們請張宏祿召委質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3938.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3963.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
請署長請吳署長委員長保證你先休息來署長就剛剛大家說老宅延壽的一個問題是其實也有人在問啊我們的這個政策是好但是老宅延壽是一戶還是要一棟 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3965.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3994.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
說明一下他有分兩塊因為我們希望讓老宅能夠作為這個尤其是老人家或小孩他的一個無障礙的空間的通行是最重要不能只有在室內而是整個公共區域的無障礙通行跟安全是首要所以整棟的這個改造是一定需要的那除此之外如果各戶有室內修繕的必要我們也是朝向以無障礙跟安全性的設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3995.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4003.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
為主來進行補貼所以我想這是我們在做這方面的時候是考量到整棟大樓的一個安全性為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4005.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4025.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
主長最主要的是很多市民會問我一戶可不可以申請就這麼簡單的問題所以它如果是整棟還是要整棟出來申請那會改善它的公共區域因為如果只有你自己的室內的話其實是不知道整棟一定符合標準整棟一定可以申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4027.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4056.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
不一定整棟的人每個人都要啊是阿他如果一戶可不可以申請一戶目前來講我們會覺得比較不符合這整個原來希望整個公共區域安全的這樣的一個一個標準對是啦齁所以如果這樣子的話我跟你講這個啊效率可能會打折扣真的會打折扣因為我跟你講如果整棟啊齁都可以申請都同意的話啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4057.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4085.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
照這種條件的房子幾乎都有可以圍牢了跟我們報告其實因為分擔的比例其實差距很大因為圍牢的部分很多都還有分擔的問題那分擔的量是蠻大的那因為我們剛剛提到這些整修的部分它的負擔金額是相對比較低的那所以我們是希望不一定要走到圍牢但是它如果能夠改善讓它方便住在裡面其實相對是比較好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4086.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4102.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我利你們的方向你們什麼的我不是反對我也很支持但是你也知道其實如果以這個為以你們這個老巫岩獸其實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4103.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4131.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
比較需要的大概都是在都會區啦是整個沒有什麼他也不可能給你申請啦是對不對所以在都會區裡面如果因為一戶他不同意他不想分攤那些啊我可能我住一樓的我幹嘛跟你分攤電梯啊我也用不到這個是以前就遇到的問題了嘛以前就遇到的問題了嘛所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4132.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4153.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我覺得啦如果我們真的要來推這個可能可以思考一下因為你真的要解決這個無障礙解決什麼的這些東西當然利益良善但我怕我怕你做了一年之後你來檢討你的執行進度哇可能不高喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4154.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4179.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
這點我是先提醒了解委員的意思因為過程中過去的執行經驗大概就是一樓的反對是最大的所以這個部分我想我們現在是有顧問團這樣的一個做法那我們會來整合一下過去大家的經驗來看是不是有機會適度修正當然不一定說只要一戶就可以申請但是同一比例的部分我想我們可以來做檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4180.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4207.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
可以啦,因為你也知道以前的經驗大家都知道,也不用講我就是不要,我幹嘛我用不到的我幹嘛去配合這個這個是這樣,那另外再來署長你可能也有很多食物的經驗台北、新北、桃園、台中我們如果要都更、要什麼的,條件會一樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4209.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4224.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
不一樣對嘛 一定不一樣嘛對 狀況都有不太一樣土地的價值跟你的這個基地的面積跟你的等等的所有的條件都考慮進去這一定是不一樣的條件嘛對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4225.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4240.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那如果不一樣的條件我今天看了這個修法這個裡面有的人好像是會想說用一個比較像租賃比較公平的契約大家這樣子有個遵循那出發點 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4242.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4261.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
不能說不對啦出發點也好像是讓大家有所依循不過就沒有考慮到每個的差異性那你這樣子的話這跟租房子不一樣喔可能到時候你會不會擔心到時候所有都跟反而因為這樣卡住 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4262.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4278.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
感謝委員 因為的確合建 協議合建這件事情這麼多年來在都更條例裡面一直不太想去處理是因為它是純屬私契約之間的約定方式第二個就是說它的約定的內容越來越多變 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4279.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4294.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
越來越多變從早期的單純協議合建變化成有合夥有換地那有合建分屋合建分售合建分成那甚至還有跑出新的共同入股那這樣的方式的話其實變化多到 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4296.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4320.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
讓這樣的契約其實它在已經變成純屬私契約裡面各種不同形態的變化那很難在公部門訂定相關的法規裡面能去包含如果萬一沒有包含到的話反而會容易限制住那個案件的發展那所以在這過程當中我們也是非常謹慎就是說如果未來朝向是以目前的案例來訂定相關的注意事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4322.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4345.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那或許對民眾來講還比較有實質上的一個協助那但是如果一定去強制入法的話反而我覺得會第一個綁手綁腳第二個呢未來對於在如果這類案件是走到消保消保的這個部分的話反而會更不利於這一個雙方在做一個位置上的一個判讀所以這也是我們在這過程當中會相對比較謹慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4347.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4371.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我個人反而啦如果在不涉及不涉及其他的法令的情況之下國土署你甚至可以適度的公佈人家幾個案例人家的這個條件的什麼什麼我跟你講這個最清楚你大家都可以有一個這個條件去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4376.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4389.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這類型態通常還會涉及到個人的財務狀況所以他們才會有這麼多不同型態的變化那另外一個當然就是時間的改變是對雙方對這個實施者最大的考驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4390.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4415.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那糾紛往往也會出現在因為時間的改變 政策的改變雙方都希望更動合約但這個就沒有辦法由公部門的法規來處理所以我們盡可能舉出不同的樣態讓實施者跟地主來做了解也希望他們在走這方面的時候呢他能夠注意到裡面的風險你可能誤會我的意思喔我抱歉喔 再借我30秒部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4419.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4439.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我必須要講我不是要你公布他所有的這個就像你剛講的你一兩個比較這個例子然後公布這個樣態讓大家可以知道一個issue我不是要你公布他所有的東西啊對不對他們的那些一些那個我們當然不能公布但 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4441.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4453.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
最在乎的是他分回多少嘛對不對 最在乎嘛那如果說有幾個例子這樣子公布的話我覺得可以有所依循啊布丁你覺得這個可以回去研究看看嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4455.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4476.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
如果是屬於行政上面的部分我們給我們一點時間跟各縣市地方政府在推動都更的人把所有的樣態整理出來那如果需要有一項依循的程序或是提出一個類似指導的原則的話不要先入法那其實我們是可以同意的因為我們也是希望都更可以往前走 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4477.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4496.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我的意思就是這樣啦你至少讓大家有一個你用契約定的太死了你完全沒有空間了反而會阻礙但你把這些可能的例子給大家看大家大概就會比較清楚法律什麼多少幾趴沒人看得懂啦可以嗎好謝謝我們來改進謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4514.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4517.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
主席好有請部長劉部長有請委員長部長好部長看一下這個特別條例有通過了嗎還有預算可以大內宣了嗎問部長一下特別條例有過了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4539.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4553.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
目前在大院好像是有附委但是還沒有做報告還有做審查還沒有過但是就在好像都在宣傳所以說這個部分我們是還沒過 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4555.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4563.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
還在審查中但是我們就看到就是大家都在我們內政部這邊在做宣傳所以依據我們的危老條例門檻屋齡30年以上未老舊房屋內政部統計的屋齡資料顯示目前全國超過30年以上的房屋也有將近600萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4585.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4611.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
所以占全國全體住宅的60%請問截止目前各縣市已經完成都市更新還有危老重建的屋數分別為多少比較潛在的老屋的技術還有實際的推動比例為何中央是否定有具體的中長期的推動目標還有時程嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4617.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4643.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
好 沒問題感謝委員 其實因為都更條例跟都更條例後面我們接著一個危老那到截至目前為止都更的案件大概有1200多件那危老的案件大概有4600多件那所以這一些案子其實在過去的努力當中其實速度有逐漸在加快因為我們把一些法規做修正那但是呢 我想在危老他的部分呢 因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4644.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4657.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我們已經即將要借起時間快到那所以當然各界期待我們把危老條例再做修正跟延長這部分我們也目前已經正在研擬相關的一個草案所以這個部分我們會讓他把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4659.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4682.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
往前推但是如果是屬於在這個10成獎勵的部分我們在原來訂定的時候就希望它改成用規模獎勵那所以也就是說我們不希望過去那種規模太小的重建案還去用那麼高的容積獎勵所以在規模獎勵上面呢我們是把它納進去來取代這一個10成獎勵這個部分我想在後續的這個修法裡面我們也會把它一併來納進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4683.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4692.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好我們知道就是危老條件就是獎勵到今年五月份到齊 它是指時程獎勵所以但是目前我們有接續的政策嘛剛才你說的是政府有很多的問題但是都到齊了在想辦法展演所以不願意提前想好問題怎麼解決啊這個就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4707.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4715.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
想要的所以在我們的這屆期後中央是否已經是接續獎勵的機制草案嗎有了嗎還有什麼原則啊或者說有沒有說新的獎勵是否等於說危老的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4726.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4742.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這實質上有沒有終止這樣如何整理就是說我們整理中的案件有嗎 有沒有是這樣子的一個完整的根文報告啦 因為其實在修法要去延長的這一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4742.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4764.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我們的確都在進行當中那獎勵的部分就會像我們剛剛所講的我們會是以規模獎勵為主就是原來的10成獎勵會落日取消但是規模獎勵會繼續延續這第一個第二個就是說我們也會檢討過程當中是不是還有程序可以簡化的部分這個部分我們也會在這一個修法裡面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4765.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4783.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
來一併來提出我們希望能夠協助這一類的危老案件後面的速度能夠越來越快這一定是我們在目前正在進行的這個作業這沒有問題所以說我們希望是說真的是有解決方式啦不只是說到了再來去水到腳了再來跳這樣子的意思啦所以剛剛問的就是危老重建的制度嘛接下來想要請教一下我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4793.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4815.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
都跟整合的问题目前主要的瓶颈就是说住户医院就是同诊的困难所以目前我们租同意的比例还有是否修法我们精简的制度是可能性吗或者考虑说区段同意的比例分流或者整合奖励的扎码 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4816.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4822.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
等這樣子的彈性的制度政府是考慮說設置的協調平台有沒有納入說第三方的調解的機制來協助就是澄清的爭議或者是降低這樣子的對抗除了願意整合以外呢為什麼我們很多的住戶不願意的主因所以部長我們署長這邊有沒有知道為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4844.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4870.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
了解跟委員報告啦因為其實都更案過程當中的確就像委員所講的中間會存在的資訊不對稱還有住戶的同意比例那所以我們在過程當中其實因為各縣市的量能跟形態都不一樣所以基本上我們在過程當中有鼓勵地方政府是否在整合到一定比例的時候就應該主動來介入也就是說協助譬如說你已經達到三分之二或四分之三那 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4871.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4893.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
政府要不要進來再做協助因為怕最後有時候最後一關不好送或是還有人堅持那所以在這過程當中政府的地方政府的適度介入其實有必要的第二個就是說過程當中其實也存在了很多的爭議所以在我們在法規裡面都已經有訂定地方可以成立都更都是更新的一個審議跟這個爭議爭議協調委員會的機制去處理那所以未來在做法上 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4899.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4919.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我想我們每年都有持續的檢討就是會希望地方政府是否能夠調降那個進入的時機因為地方政府都希望到八九十的時候再進入但是如果可以的話再早一點介入的話或許可以讓這些案件的通過的時間能夠再加快這個我們會來跟地方政府再來開會來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4921.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4940.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
謝謝署長因為我們是希望知道是主要的原因因為我們就是你講的就是你們過程的處理因為要有這些處理才能協助他們往前對我們希望說有哪一些主要的原因我們才能知道說我們也是因為民意代表我們就是幫忙溝通來問解決的問題但是你們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4945.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4960.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
行政的過程你們去處理你們去做啦我們是希望想要的是說知道的什麼主因所以我們是資訊不對稱還有就是就是有這樣的不信任感所以我們希望才導致就是意願降低嘛所以我們是有的時候就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4963.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4976.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
建商變奸商所以變成我們導致就是很多屋子被騙或者是說掛了一間類似的案件都市更新又馬上就是就是含痰的效應 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4978.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4992.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
挖來挖去 民眾所獲得資訊跟建商的就是有很大的落差所以我們希望的是說你要知道的原因的落實來去做溝通才不會說資訊落差太大我們務主就對我們政府沒有信任感所以才會產生就很大的問題所以我們目前就是沒有標準化也沒有說都是更新的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5006.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5020.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
計畫的範本所以財務的模式的工具所以我們希望說這樣子的話我們是不是這也有一個是有效益的讓我們的民眾他們知道說不是任何都是透過建商 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5020.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5031.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
才知道要怎麼去做他們是不是可以直接就會有說比如說我們現在社區有就是更新的顧問制度對待還有就是說我們的社區醫師或者公開社區的都更諮詢師等等提供但是我們現在目前是沒有沒有完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5043.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5062.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
讓我們的個別的租屋他們真的是有一個求助管道都會透過建商來去幫忙寫計劃送計劃等於就是他們都沒有完整我們希望是有沒有完整有效的範本讓大家可以去做參考這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5063.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5091.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
好所以第二個的話我想說就是因為時間的關係我希望說我們就是希望有在22的縣市中有沒有成立就是專者就是推動的單位也有陣地這樣子的標準的考慮的機制因為我們希望說計劃掌力補助方式對我們的地方還有中央的明確的目標因為我們有很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5092.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5121.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我以前都是在台中中區那邊我們了解就是這樣子的老屋啊都更但是呢因為政府有這樣的好意但是呢我們的要有沒有說我們的中小企業有我們中小企業的信用保證基金但是我們有沒有可以說用一個都更金融就是都市更新融資保證的基金讓我們想要都更的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5122.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5139.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這樣子我們政府做一個保障讓他們可以去有這個經費來可以去做我們希望說這個部分是不是可以感謝委員其實我們大概各縣市有成立相關的輔導團來做協助第二個就是說在危老的部分其實已經有所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5140.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5163.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
信用信保的制度那都更的部分其實過程當中很多縣市政府也都會有做類似信託的動作那所以這個部分我想我們在整個制度我們會整整體在持續的檢討那會有輕的進步進一步的話會跟大會這邊再來做說明我們這邊就是要送我們的就是立院有相關這些的資訊讓我們可以做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5166.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5183.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
因為在台中真的是要都更也好為老也好是在中期是最多的所以我們希望我們可以幫得上忙一起來去推動以上謝謝好謝謝麥立貞委員相關資料請單位會後回覆下一個我們請徐議貞委員質詢謝謝主席我們請內政部劉部長還有住都中心花董事長劉部長花董事長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5198.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5226.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
委員長部長早還有董事長早我想當時我們成立這個住都中心當然主要就是要推動都市內老舊建築物的重建還有強化政府主導都市更新的機制而且擴大我們執行都市更新的量能所以今年住都中心在2月12的時候有對外宣布有一個新聞稿就是中央興建首座運用預住公法的新辦的社會住宅萬華安居 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5227.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5256.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那二月底預計要公開招租總共戶數有300戶有三種房型那除了套房195戶兩房的89戶三房的16戶那當然預租工法依照當時花董事長的說法是其實現在是一個比較可以節省人力而且呢又可以讓我們的工期能夠加速進行然後另外還有呢就是可以提升施工品質所以現在租屋中心也在推這個預租工法 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5257.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5265.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我看到目前除了萬華安居還有新竹的中亞安居桃園的普興安居跟新竹的京城安居目前是這四個是嗎那未來會繼續推動嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5267.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5289.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
謝謝委員的關注我想預租工法絕對是國內不管是社宅或一般民間的開發案應該要擴大推動的那我們當然希望透過社宅的推動來示範讓這些營造廠跟民間都能夠了解那後續我們預計每年至少要以兩處社宅來推動預租工法 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5290.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5310.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那因為當時用玉柱工法主要就是覺得它可以縮短工期嘛對不對可以縮短時間我想不僅是這樣因為它其實是比較先進的營造工法對於未來台灣營造人力的短缺絕對是越來越嚴重所以說我們透過玉柱工法的推動希望讓玉柱的產業在台灣能夠擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5313.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5338.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
當時您是說2月底就會公開遭租了但是到目前為止都還沒有的原因是什麼其實確實我們也跟一些我們其他的今年要遭租的案子做了整體的檢討現在預計應該在5月的下旬應該就會公告請問一下因為我上你們的網站看您可以看一下這個圖片4月13日就已經竣工了 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5338.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5356.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那為什麼要到五月底才能招租因為你本來預計的是二月底我們竣工其實只是工程的一個階段後面還有一些最後的細節那還要申請死照等等等等那你那時候說二月底可以辦理招租現在要到五月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5356.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5373.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
因為實質上可以實質入住啦大概還是要到可能10月到年底才是實質可以入住所以我5月遭住其實還是來得及那你當時2月12的時候說2月要遭住那現在延宕了三個月的理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5375.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5400.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
其實我剛剛跟委員報告過實際上我們就是我們把今年預計要可能要完工我們做了一次的整理那我們分階段因為我們有十幾個案子今年要招租因為其實對於每一個需要社會住宅大部分其實都是比較弱勢的家庭晚一天完工晚一天招租對他們來說他們就必須要負擔更多的租金因為他必須在外面租所以我們希望說這個部分是不是這個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5402.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5423.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
不要再延宕因為我也有聽到一種聲音就是說是不是要等到520之後要等我們的賴總統或卓院長去檢採所以才要延到5月底呢跟這個有關對我希望不要這樣所以希望在這邊我們可以加速的這個前進那另外就是根據萬華安居預計要收多少租金 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5425.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5441.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
這個其實我們跟部裡面其實都在檢討討論當中那原則上當然是以符合住戶可負擔這個標準這是一定要遵守的好 依照這個估價師的推算租金可能會超過4萬元是不是有這麼一回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5442.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5464.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
目前我想這不會發生這絕對不會發生因為依照我們目前的社會住宅的租金來說剛剛也提到其實會去需要社會住宅的這些住戶大部分都是比較弱勢他們也有這個需要所以那個租金對他們來說當然相對高低對他們來說相對重要所以目前我們大概是 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5465.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5490.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
這個社會住宅的租金比如說如果由估價式來估算通常是會用市場租金的七到八折雖然是低於市場行情啦但是對於在都會區來說事實上這個租金的壓力也是非常的大那相對於我們可以比較一下日本韓國跟香港他們的社會住宅租金多半是以收入能力來去估算所以計算之後大概會是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5491.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5507.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
地區租金的四到五折所以要這邊實質上又未必是這樣其實日本的UR guide住宅其實就是市場租金在租並沒有用市場租金的四到五折在租那另外呢台灣確實是比較好啦那日本呢你剛剛講韓國呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5510.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5526.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
韓國其實有很多種在這邊我想提出這個問題就是希望部長跟這個董事長就是定價的部分因為既然是要幫助弱勢的團體還是希望能夠定價既然盡量符合各地的一個標準依地區別好嗎還有依他的收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5527.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5554.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
然後另外再請教一下這個部長就是我們現在台灣我們現在都市更新因為我們現在老宅大概超過30年有超過500萬戶所以現在在都市更新的這個危老都市更新其實有一點緩慢那請問部長這個是不是我們現在的這個都跟的這個在推動的時候我們是不是比較注重能不能談的成而不是關心地主跟住戶分的公不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5559.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5576.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
在我們的都更違老條例裡面比較側重的是屬於程序上面的合乎我們的行政規範所以對於實質上就是能不能有分多少的利潤或者我們比較沒有介入也就是我們剛剛所說的要把這樣子各種不同的合建合夥甚至入股把它放到 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5576.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5604.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
法條裡面啦對公部門來講確實在處理上有點困難因為一般的我說一般我們的人民啦針對面對這樣的更新的時候其實他們都很多的疑問而且因為不熟悉所以比如說像我們租賃的時候有租賃定型化契約範本然後咧我們在這個預售屋的時候預售屋的定型化契約範本那我們是不是可以針對都市更新的契約也訂一個範本呢跟委員報告就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5606.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5634.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
也就是因為在尤其是合建這個部分形態太多種那我剛說明就是說從早期很單純的協議合建其實延伸到最後有這個協議有這個合建分屋合建分層合建分售甚至有用入股合資或是異地的方式所以就是因為類型太多種所以在過程當中而且都純屬私人之間的一個權力交換 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5635.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5662.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
權力交換所以變成說所以署長的意思說要用一個這個要用一個範本去約束他們其實反而會造成因為那其實是一個參考嘛雙方的我說明一下所以為什麼過去在我們跟地方政府討論的過程當中大家比較傾向用注意事項也就是說把可能的樣態那現在有注意事項嗎用注意事項的方式提醒雙方要簽這一類的時候那現在有注意事項嗎現在雙北有 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5664.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5682.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
雙北有 那全國我們也有針對這個部分是國土署這邊在推動還是地方自己推動因為地方政府對這一類的法規跟處理機制不太一樣所以我們一般傾向由地方政府自己去訂比較能符合他們自己的實務上的一個運作的方式 是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5682.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5705.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那目前只有雙倍就代表還有很多縣市是還沒有推動所以我說明一下就是說我們比較不贊成修法是因為修法太剛性了反而會限制了雙方的發展那改用注意事項或者是提醒他們有所謂風險控管的時候那不管是注意事項或是其他我是認為說既然包括租屋期幾千塊的事情幾萬塊的事情就有一個定型化契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5705.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5726.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
然後我們預售戶有一個定型化的機會反而是都跟這麼重要的事情牽扯的可能上千萬幾百萬的這種都目前是沒有那剛剛署長如果說的這個定型化的辦法嘛你們現在說地方的是就是注意事項是不是可以加速來去推動各縣市來這個我們有正在研議這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5727.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5735.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那有沒有預計大概多久可以完成我想我們今年度來跟地方政府在廣為在開會大家一起來希望今年度可以完成好嗎是謝謝然後另外最後一個問題就是要請教一下就是因為其實我們目前就像我剛剛講的我想要都更的這些住戶或者是說我們這些相關的民眾他們其實對於市場的不管是產業啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5749.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5770.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
然後有多少業者 怎麼整合 產業規模有多少其實大家都不了解所以住都中心有沒有可能可以成立一個這樣子的共享平台讓我如果需要都更的人可以到這個平台裡去查詢到相關的資料包括比如說公司的名冊 顧問庫或是跟地方政府共享的協力平台可不可以成立一個這樣的平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5771.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5800.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
包委員因為國家都督中心在都更的業務上比較是公辦都更為主所以民間的都更案原則上我們比較不會去介入和參與不是要介入參與我的意思是說成立一個這樣的平台讓我們如果有需要的民眾他可以上網去看那因為其實都督中心當時成立的目的就是希望能夠有做一些比如說是相關的分析資料收集統計分析研究規劃跟教育訓練嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5801.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5817.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
感謝委員 這個我們會來我們現在本來就有收集資料啦我想我們來修正我們的一些網站的資料然後推廣給所有的這個民眾來了解我們一樣在今年就已經都有陸陸續續在做一些修改那是不是今年年底可以完成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5818.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5842.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
應該可以好那就麻煩一下就是說我們這個讓我們一些需要用到這個更新條例的人或是需要更新的這些民眾能夠有所許委員那個是不是這樣子就是國土署長剛已經有提到我們是不是盡量把這些資訊能夠公開讓放在國土署的網站可以可以其實放在哪都沒有問題處理公辦都跟比較不太一樣其實放在哪裡都沒有問題只是主要讓大家可以看得到好這個我們來努力來做好謝謝徐議貞委員的資訊下一位我們請王美惠委員資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5848.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5849.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
主席 我們這裡 保證 保證喝一杯 沒關係 保證 喝一杯 喝一杯都沒吹 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5866.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5872.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
蘇長有請 蕃姓好 美鳳在今天我們討論的當中我們全國有五百萬戶差不多都在三十年以上 佔一半 老齡尤其加上去以後都說是木都木都就是代表他的地方的古厝 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5896.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5900.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
在這個規定當中 家裡的房子的平均年費是35費我們全國的是33費所以在這裏面 你就看得出來 家裡是30 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5915.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5916.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
林依雄的就佔62%啦在全國的我們到55%多啦所以說在這個規定當中部長跟署長也很用心的要準備推出我們的樓房讓它恢復恢復在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5941.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5952.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
過程當中三宗五十億要不然我要補充跟署長說的就是這個流出過程最重要的一個是安全、防震、流水因為它的結構很流亡所有問題也這麼多所以有需要改善所有本身的體積 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5969.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5972.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我們這裡的鄉鄉不要遭福氣因為我認為用心要讓這裡的老鼠還可以讓牠恢復生命讓牠可以吃飽,這樣這間老鼠可以再做到可以保守繼續長的安全,我們都要考慮下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5997.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6002.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
尤其我會跟他一起大的都差不多年尾和年尾跟年尾的經歷事實都在外面吃透了應該我們有這個心 要做這件事我們應該是心情好 要辦才可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6024.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6031.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
這裡的老闆讓他能夠先進來補助的時候他的規則、他的申請要更簡單因為我認為有時候我們辦的時候你讓人這麼早早的要再去申請這裡申請這裡 要再去申請那裡沒有差你們的美意也沒有差你們的用心所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6053.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6063.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
順序和補充,本席跟你說,這個公司很不簡單,像咖啡廚你看你如果有經過咖啡廚,你去咖啡廚看,那個夢都的稱呼是非常地不簡單所以你如果能夠協助咖啡廚這裡的老廚的時候應該我們的環境更好,是不是這個你來報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6084.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6100.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
感謝委員 加議區這幾宗我們很努力的就是競爭和危牢重建我們渡江的案件和危牢的案件在全國都差不多百千名所以新青榮都算不錯因為我們過去有補助這個企業創立這個專案辦公室所以在這個專案辦公室的合作之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6106.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6111.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
其實案件在推動上不錯那未來在做這個勞財研修的部分我們就要一樣在地方把這個專業團體跟企戶構造會用一個福德團就是說民眾家屬有沒了解或是有想要申請的我們會先透過這個福德團規劃做規格看看他要怎麼去處理這個事情未來這個制度上我想我們要透過這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6128.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6134.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這個福德團給我們歡迎有一些制度上我們可以來做一些修正我們要來修正總之我們希望我們這個市長在住在家裡他不用說我一定要搬去北部住我在這裡把家裡整理好這個無障礙空間安全的設施做好他就可以在這裡安心地繼續住 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6147.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6149.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我想這是這個政策最大的目的,我們一定會向這個方向發表因為我想我們中央可以想出這個方法,可能跟地方的政府都差不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6158.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6161.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
有這個想法 因為老廚的時候 他的電費都很高有時候我們燒炸燈的時候 那個老廚的時候 不是這樣燒而已有時候整排都燒光了 自己有錢也買不到 才會老廚 所以說我們也 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6181.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6183.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我們這個小細節的問題,我們要看過後,做好後因為署長我也知道你很用心的,為這個區塊給我們補充的感動,但是我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6196.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6204.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
一定要便民的啊 剛才聽你這樣說應該是越便民越多要去請感恩感謝我們地方政府的投協助我們才有那個申告出來啦本席再跟你談到一個土耕條例的問題1999年的時候我們在修法的時候本席有提一個復議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6224.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6233.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
附帶結議的問題,說我們都跟農基地多大的選,對社區的回饋,但是署長,一定會交給的,會附帶結議 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6242.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6249.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我要請問,到現在你們辦到哪裡來?跟委員報告啦,其實那個休館這個榮獎的這個回饋啦榮獎的回饋,我相信這個部門,我們目前已經有在檢討那第二,也已經有跟這個院裡面跟行政院裡面有做一些報告包括說,尤其大規模的這個渡工榮獎,過去都用 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6267.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6286.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
有的甚至用交集,有的去做一些其他的,去對社區、對地方不實際的幫助所以未來,因為都更的引進,尤其重大的建設、重大都更的案子如果類似能夠引進社宅,來回饋地方,給一些地方可以照顧更多需要的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6287.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6293.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
或是說它還可以做更多的社福設施,這部分我們已經有在研議這個方案有啦齁,不然等一等多一等多這樣就沒有了有啦,我那個社宅的部分已經有先預告了有先預告了,我相信後面還有需要檢討的部分我們還會繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6310.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6317.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
因為署長這個 我覺得對主委也好對健康要去的也好 因為大家互相可以相迎對不然你跟他說 你給健康有農基率 跟你沒有回饋北省也會覺得 跟你怎麼做這麼奇怪在這個過程中 我們也 署長這件事要要求不是說有得做 有得做 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6339.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6344.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
來這裡補充 委員你所關心這個都更榮獎的部分我們已經完成預告 現在法規程序做完了以後就可以對外公告實施這樣很好 因為 感謝日程再跟委員來補充這樣感謝補充在這裡我還有一個問題就是跟市長談到的就是危老的條例在這個過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6366.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6370.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我們在186年實施的 要實施10年 現在剩2年在這2年到目前 我們的規約 你們有可能再延長嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6383.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6400.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
感謝 因為其實我們地方國家都有希望這個危老條例再來延長主要是它的程序減變它的程序開始減變小規模的基地不用到都更那麼大範圍小規模的基地也會造成所以我們目前已經有延宜車案要延長 第二就是說這個中壢保安也是維持我們基準的規模獎勵給繼續希望大家去整併出來 危老也不會太少 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6414.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6421.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
稍微給更多假日 把這個社區的經關改造得更好因為署長本市會跟你談到這個圍牢的條例是不是可以再延長因為我認為在申請的當中 你會看到出來圍牢的申請有65件 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6435.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6440.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
剛才才申請兩件啦所以說這個圍繞的選對北省也願意去參與電商也願意去做所以我覺得說不要逗留他人的時候我覺得有需要扁平有需要延長我們要延長因為當時是本市長會幫你探討的選你就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6463.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6467.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
圍繞這個問題是非常重要所以大家願意朝這個方向去做所以說兩黨很快也會搞所以署長保證,我們要先研議開不然時間夠了,要到最後說只有這麼多人想要請,但是我們沒有人的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6489.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6489.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
謝謝王美惠委員 下一位我們請黃婕委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6523.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6526.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
好謝謝主席我們先請部長劉部長有請部長好因為其實大家都在討論這個危老條例即將落日的問題那其實我也看到說內政部有先提了一個新的政策就是關於老屋延壽那當然老屋延壽是三年五十億可是呢其實它的內容大概就是四到六樓 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6551.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6556.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那比較是單元式的而且只有大概拉皮拉管這一些比較小型的一些補助跟跟就是處理這些小型的問題那我的問題還是說那接下來這個危老條例即將落日了就是在2027年的5月嗎那 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6568.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6593.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我擔心的是說在落日之後接下來還有什麼新的政策是我們政府有準備好要端出來的嗎可不可以先請部長跟大家簡單的說明一下接下來長期的策略我們剛在報告的時候就是有關都更危老條例即將要落日的部分也提出來包括簡化裡面的審議程序加快它的速度也就是都更跟危老不管是公辦或者是私人民辦的部分我們都會繼續來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6595.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6623.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那再來就是您剛剛所提到的目前我們這個行政院要求我們把50億的特別預算把它拿來處理這個有關老宅延售的部分應該是我們在今年年初的時候各界都有反映有關人老屋老的部分所以那時候內政部就想要推老宅延售那因為推老宅延售本來放在公務預算裡面我們也考慮到說老宅延售要不要推出專章放在都更違老條例裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6624.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6653.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
現在行政院覺得說我們要加速進行所以他就是用特別預算三年的方式先讓內政部來推動所以我們推動的時候目前我們就是會跟衛福部一起推出一個類似一個行政命令或措施的方式來推動這個部分這裡面大概第一個四到六樓的部分這是外面的外觀的安全跟硬體設備但是大家忘了這裡面最重要的措施其實也就是我們在社會福利上照顧老人家最重要就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6653.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6676.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
各宅裡面的老人家他自己本身的無障礙設施不會只有我們以前所說的像什麼電梯啦或者是這個無障礙的樓梯間不是這樣子包括剛剛所在乎的譬如說整個的那個電線的維護甚至燈光照明或者是老人家在衛浴裡面不要有那個這個滑倒這樣的措施啊這個我們就必須要跟衛福部一起來處理也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6679.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6700.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
內政部所處理的是整個的外面看的耐震的一定的程度之下怎麼樣讓老人家可以在整棟大樓裡面是可以安全的活動但是另外一個在住宅生活品質上面能夠讓老人家可以在一般年紀比較大的要注意一下不要有其他的跌倒受傷或者是受到其他的因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6700.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6717.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這兩個合在一起所以行政院認為說值得把它放在我們這次的特別預算來推動那特別預算如果通過的話其實我們按照現在衛福部跟衛福部的長照計畫跟那個內政部所提的部分就可以來辦理這個推動讓大家一起來申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6718.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6739.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
好謝謝部長的說明我認為這是一個非常好的政策也希望接下來推行可以順利那這個特別預算可以順利通過那我還是想請教一下剛剛其實部長有說所以危老條例因為其實裡面的這個時程容積獎勵本來前三年是10%嘛那到現在已經是第八年了剩下1%那所以是接下來還打算繼續延長這個獎勵嗎是不是請署長補充說明一下感謝委員因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6743.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6768.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我們過去就認為10成獎勵它是一個比較像鼓勵性質的空白授權它是應該要結束掉但是我們同時也看到危老因為當時搶著申請所以太多的小基地去申請然後有獎勵那在結構它相對比較會讓外界質疑所以我們很快就提出了規模獎勵也就是說你至少要在60平方公尺以上才能夠來申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6769.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6785.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那他有一點就變成取代這個施政獎勵那未來在修法裡面我想我們這一個部分我們也會繼續鼓勵他但是施政獎勵的部分我們就會直接把它做取消好 那我了解 謝謝署長的說明那再來請教一下 也是請署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6786.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6801.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那署長跟你請教一下因為接下來其實我們高雄啊我們高雄其實做危老的比做都更的多很多那當然是條件的不同啦就是我們單元的這種比較多然後也比較便利那大規模都更也 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6803.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6825.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
確實推動不易所以我在這邊還是想要再請教一下啦就是像這種自辦都更像我們谷山就有一個非常長期無法處理的自辦都更那也是基於這種住戶跟建商之間的資訊不透明或者是彼此的不信任等等的原因到現在也沒有辦法有個好的結果那我們也協調過很多次了那其實很多案例都是類似這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6826.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6849.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
所以想請署長是針對這樣子的案例到底有沒有比較好的方式可以推進自辦都更的進度呢跟委員報告啦其實就法規上來講其實現在程序是完備的但事實上就會像委員所講的資訊不透明跟建商住戶之間的不信任感往往是這中間比較大的兩個因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6850.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6862.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
所以我們過去都有提供給地方政府類似輔導團跟專案辦公室就是希望除了政府部門以外有其他的單位能夠進入來做一些協助那所以像這一類的案子過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6862.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6883.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
在各地方政府其實都有類似用這樣的機制來處理啦那不過或許委員這個案子相對可能複雜度更高那所以這個部分我想如果有機會我想我們來了解看看他真正要怎麼樣去介入做一些協助那我們也來指導市府看看市府的以市府的角度跟專案辦公室要怎麼樣來幫忙這些住戶來做溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6885.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6906.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
好這個真的要拜託那另外一件事情是這個公辦都更雖然跟國土署沒有什麼關係但是因為這是接下來高雄最大型的都更計畫就是我們高鐵高雄站那接下來會把地下連通道的都納進都更的計畫那周邊包括很多商辦然後一些旅宿還有捷運輕軌都會納進這整個大都更計畫的範圍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6910.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6930.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那當然這主要是台鐵要處理啦包括專事專武的部分那如果接下來有一些包括如果他的一些都計的變更需要單元的需要我們國土署協助的這個也要拜託我們國土署大力來協助好嗎在這邊先拜託你們的成員如果都市計畫會送到內政部來的設計主計的話我想我們會全力來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6930.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6946.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
好太好了謝謝署長因為這會是接下來高雄非常最重點的一個計畫甚至我們卓榮泰院長稱這個會是城市的靈魂高雄城市的靈魂他是這樣子說明的那最後一點時間我們跟署長請教一下就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6946.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6975.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
關於這個都市更新跟氣候變遷的調適因為其實我有看到說當然這個氣候變遷之下我們城市是越來越熱加上都市的熱島效應等等所以其實我有看到德國有一個他們在把這個風浪城市的風浪有納進他們一些城市的規劃裡面那我認為是一個蠻值得參考的尤其是我們現在各縣市尤其是我們南部縣市超級熱那這種在如何不要讓城市裡面的風浪被阻塞 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6975.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6978.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我覺得把風狼的規劃納進去是蠻好的一個指標所以是不是如果接下來有一些包括可能容積獎勵的指標啊或者是有什麼一些設計準則裡面也可以把這個城市風狼納進去呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6991.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7006.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
感謝委員 其實城市封廊的這個概念其實在各縣市的都市設計準則裡面通常都會去做考慮但是就是看在實質審議的時候你能怎麼樣去考慮到個案那第二個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7007.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7032.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
其實城市風浪的一個氣候模擬那其實部長也非常關心所以也有指示建研所都有進行這一類的研究那我想我們到時候也可以適時的把一些研究的成果來提供給各縣市政府那他們在訂定相關的都市設計準則跟審議規範的時候能夠一併納入我想再把它放到個案的基地去做審議去做協調我想這是我們可以接下來可以努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7032.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7053.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
是啊非常好那除了說給他們參考之外我相信如果有更多的鼓勵措施是更好啦畢竟很多時候如果他們有其他考量的話這一些風狼的洞據之間他們可能就會犧牲掉了或者是就沒有辦法依照來實施對就是我們會鼓勵更多元的設計方法對更多元的設計方法來解決它好謝謝謝謝署長謝謝部長謝謝黃婕委員下一位我們請李博義委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7074.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7075.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
來 謝謝有請吳署長吳署長有請委員好謝謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7080.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7106.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
今天我們雖然是討論都市更新跟危老重建但是近年高雄除了這個危老重建執行的非常多之外那都市更新其實都是非常大型那非常大型都是用公辦而且涉及的單位如果沒有中央政府的協助的話這是非常非常高雄建設幾十年來都沒有辦法達成的包含我在畫面上給署長參考的 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7107.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7128.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
雅灣特茂山的三個基地這三個基地其實你也知道台電有60%的土地那沒有經過中央政府的協調沒有經濟部台電的首肯這個不可能可以執行的好那你看第五個我接下來講我們左營TSMC旁邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7130.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7155.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那也是因為中央有協助讓中油可以加速土屋整治而且讓台積電進來才有這麼大的需求量那這麼大需求量那高雄市政府又跟從G20G20是整個是高雄市政府的包含水肥廠、瀝青廠整個公辦都跟那包含高鐵之心高鐵之心又更困難了它包含國產署 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7156.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7173.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
鐵道局國防部那整個把它整合那還有包含高鐵之星就有兩個那還有包含最近一塊剛剛執行出來的其實是在呃劉思芳部長擔任高雄市副市長期間把國防部呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7175.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7198.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
保留下來的眷村文化保留園區五十幾公頃然後裡面現在因為已經經過了十多年沒有辦法開發那也逐漸荒廢那也跟國防部達成協議做文化都更那這個是非常特殊的那文化都更也已經順利招商了在多新開闢一條尾六路以北的地方來做文化都更 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7199.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7212.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
以南的地方大概有三分之二的園區繼續保留眷村文化園區的一個風貌也跟國防部有合作有這些相關的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7214.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7234.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
高雄的都更比起現在國土署在審核的還有很多都正在進行但是我們現在發現一個問題要趕快跟署長這邊來做討論我們現在剛剛部長也講我們已經預告要修正的都市更新建築容積獎勵辦法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7237.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7264.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我們現在還有一個正在剛剛公告上個禮拜公告的一個基地他其實也是跟中油拿來的他其實就是高雄捷運R17A5街廓的公辦都更案那這個都更案呢他面積有4200坪總開發可能會到38000坪他離台積電有多近其實就是同一個基地啦那未來可能有一些要做企業安家宅做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7266.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7293.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
可能就是沒有要賣的那作為臨時的比如說某公司啦不管是TSMC的員工也好或者是未來中油企業總部的員工來也好那可以臨時的做這些臨時的住宅實用的但是這一個財務的規劃跟我們即將要公告的這個草案可能沒有辦法符合但是你回頭要看署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7294.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7320.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
左營已經興建這麼多社宅了花董事長在這裡 花董事長請你也上來左營已經興建這麼大量的社宅跟台中的狀況完全不一樣啊我們的社宅比例已經這麼高了那我們即將要公布的這個農長辦法裡面會限制到已經公布的這一些現在比如說這個R17的案子署長你覺得這個有沒有解 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7322.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7338.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
其實我想我們這一個是本來就是全國性的那今天如果但是我們社宅的一個追求其實大家都希望照顧各個行政區的這一些需要的人那第二個我們在社宅的標準當然以最高標是5%5%其實現在各區 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7342.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7362.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
應該都還不太可能達成但是我想我想在這執行的過程當中我想說明一下執行的過程當中當然對於既有的都更已經在執行中的或是已經簽約或是已經決標的剛公告在招商所以我才說明以簽約的或是說以決標的那當然就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7363.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7383.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
要另外做一個處理因為我不可能去更改雙方的一個行政行政行政的相關的責任所以我想說這是第一個啦那第二個就是說對於這一類的企業因為我想你提到企業安家債我非常理解因為對於這一個高科技廠商他們的這個招商他們的招財 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7385.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7413.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
增才培訓其實大致上都會有需要所以這一個部分我想在這過程當中我們是非常認同的那所以在這過程當中我們會訂定他的所謂的除外的一個條款就是你在時程上你已經進到哪一個階段了事實上呢就不適用我想我們不會去做這類的影響所以我才會剛報告說如果他是已經絕標了沒有沒有沒有公告正在遭傷因為現在還沒有法規還沒有公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7413.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7434.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以我想我們在做這個理解上我們其實市府也有跟我們反映啦所以我們理解這個過程那我想這一個部分因為在院裡面還要再討論因為我們現在初步這個預告完成那也有各界都有提出意見我們還要進行做一些草案的一個修正方向上我還是這裡可以建議我們這乖寶寶條款跟這個壞學生條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7437.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7464.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
高雄就是乖寶寶條款應該給予相似度的優惠你用比例來算就知道了嘛那台中市就是顯然的壞學生嘛那整個設宅的進度然後整個房價也好等等的我覺得國路署建議國路署可以做這一個方向的研議難得今天花董事長來那也針對中油目前我們談了很久的這個幼充宿舍 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7464.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7483.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那希望可以也有住住中心還有包含中遊跟市政府的合作那來可以跟地方的居民來做一些說明那給大家一點想像在這邊還是邀請花董另外從實設宅今年可能就即將要遭到 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7484.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7498.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
可能即將有人入住 招租大量的代管業務我那天內政委員會進行考察的時候高雄市督發局也給予很多的這些意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7499.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7521.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那可能在近期也要邀請花董事長一併的來說明並且對於這些代管業提早的做一些佈局 謝謝好 謝謝委員我想高雄電油總廠 紅藍釉蔥宿舍其實我上個月才去那他們資產管理處的處長一路陪著我們這樣看 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7522.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7550.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
後面有很多可以大家一起合作的空間和機會那我們也會進行整理規劃那重石安居今年會遭租那當然我們都準備了差不多了後續因為高雄會有大量的社宅完工所以我們會有一個整大更大有系統的管理方案到時候還是跟委員報告這一次R17的這個名稱企業安家宅我覺得很可以參考啦因為未來對於紅藍社區等等的保留現有的這些應該保留的那其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7550.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7557.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
有空間發展的我也建議我們駐駐中心我們持續的跟中流來接洽了解 謝謝委員謝謝李博弈委員 接下來請劉許廷召委謝謝主席 吳署長有請請署長 吳署長召委好 署長早安 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7579.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7601.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這個本期這次有提出這個都市更新條例的新增條例的這個提案那大體上都市更新基本上以權力變換的方式為之但是還是有所謂的合建等等這樣子的一個機制但是因為都市更新它其實是一門非常專業的學士所以在實務上從事都市更新的過程之中常常會因為資訊不對稱的問題去衍生很多的糾紛那麼這樣的糾紛 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7605.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7619.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
輕則影響單一都市更新的推動重則被擴散然後造成整體大家對於都市更新的不信任然後造成這個通案的難以推動我想這件事情是值得大家好好來商討的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7620.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7644.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那麼現在雖然有台北市政府跟新北市政府有所謂的注意事項要來調整這個資訊不對稱的問題但是強度夠不夠這我想是我提出這一次法律修正案的一個非常重要的一個原因那所以我們有參酌消費者保護法跟租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例的規定作為定型化契約的概念那麼這件事情其實就是拋磚引玉我們希望可以在討論法條的過程之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7645.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7666.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
去讓這個資訊不對稱的問題可以凸顯而且有一個務實的解決方案這是我想這是提案的部分那我就順著這個話我們今天質詢就來談這樣子的一個問題在合建的都跟合建契約裡面其實常常出現因為資訊不對稱所以所造成的一些衝擊比如說我舉個例子就是說要合建一定是我地主跟想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7667.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7687.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
從事都更的這個建商一起商量嘛對不對那在商量過程中當然就有權利物關係啊我要出多少地元啊我可以分配回來多少等等當然它是一個私契約的合意行為這個您剛剛回答很多委員質詢的時候就講得非常的清楚但就是在這個私人契約達成的過程之中有可能會出現一些狀況我就舉例跟你說比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7688.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7702.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這個有很多這個核建的都更案他們會在裡面自己訂契約啊裡面會講說比如說地主我可以撤地主啊我如果要撤銷我的都更同意書我要負賠償責任因為你說我們案子都開始了你頭都洗了對不對可是其實從都更條例第37條裡面來講你如果說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7705.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7733.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
除了有特殊的規定之外可以撤銷之外也有啊比如說所有權人如果在公開展覽計畫所載更新之後分配的權利價值是低於出去同意書者所以就是地主的保障條款嘛你不能說公展之後反而條件變更差嘛如果條件變更差你就允許地主退出嘛對不對這其實是對於願意出地的地主的一個保障條款對不對可是很多地主不見得知道這件事啊他不見得了解獨根條例37條有規定有保障他的條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7734.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7750.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
以至於他在跟建商跟開發商定義讀跟契約的時候就說好我如果撤回同意書我要負賠償責任好問題就出現了嘛如果真的出現這樣的狀況的時候變成要嘛他要忍受不平等的待遇要嘛他撤銷要負責賠償法律之間彼此也會出現衝突的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7751.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7766.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
這就是我覺得資訊不對稱會帶來的問題其他的相關的樣態還有包含比如說額外的容積獎勵他們自己協議說我地主是不能分享的多賺的都算建商的或者是說也禁止這個地主去找其他的建商來做洽談 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7767.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7792.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那就造成所謂的不公平的競爭就是壟斷的這樣一個概念這些都是在目前的機制下用合議方式處理的時候可能會對於相對來講地主出現保障不足資訊不對稱造成不公平契約的這樣子的一個狀況那請問署長遇到這些狀況這些樣態應該要怎麼辦如果我們不用定型化契約的方式來處理有沒有好的方法來處理請署長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7792.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7810.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
也跟委員報告的確也是這幾年來這個這個樣態已經太多樣化那所以導致說他很難用公法的定義去把它框住因為框住的時候有好有壞壞的時候就是你雙方的協議內容他就不一定能夠成為計劃書的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7812.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7823.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
的標準因為我們在相關的權力變換價值上面都有固定的計算法但是合建是他允許雙方用協議的方式這也是我們在為什麼一開始也不太 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7823.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7843.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
想去推因為你你影響了現在雙方在執行中的協議的內容那但是委員所提到的的確就是尤其在地主端比較容易有資訊不對稱他不曉得在法規如果回歸到都更條例他有哪一些是可以受保障雙方應該要納進去的那這也是我們為什麼在 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7844.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7861.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
跟各縣市政府討論的時候大家都傾向去嚴定出更多的注意事項那但是呢只要有案件在談協議的時候我們就主動提供給雙方去作為在簽訂協議的時候的一個認知那第二個呢就是有所謂的風險控管事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7863.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7890.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
風險控管事項就是會回應到剛剛委員所提到的我過程當中可能因為政策或法規的更動導致雙方的權利義務關係有可能產生變化那這一些要怎麼去因應那第三個也就是甚至也有人提到要不要所謂的強制信託的概念但是因為強制信託又屬於民的部分所以我們會傾向把它都列入到相關的風險控管機制裡面那提供給雙方去做彈性調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7891.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7903.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那因為合建的形態太多,包含我們剛剛所講的,從早期協議合建,到了分屋,甚至有分屋還有分售,還有投資的分層,那這些我們變成說樣態太多,但是我們很難去單一,所以我們會列舉各類型的注意事項。 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7912.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7928.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
然後提供給這個提供給雙方讓他們在這過往當中這樣也能夠保障他們在既有的制度下能夠繼續去推動這樣子好了啦就是說你因為也有很多人提醒就是說你如果用一種定型化契約就要規範所有的樣態他可能會造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7929.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7951.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
溝通上的困難這個本席願意理解但是我們一定要開始討論這個題目這是我們提案的這個初衷我一向都會給行政單位時間我剛剛聽了很多委員也對這個東西有提出想法那署長的回應其實也蠻清楚就是說樣態很多還有待整理那也希望是不是要剛剛有回答其他委員您有講問一問地方政府的意見那我就直接那我就乾脆開功課啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7952.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7973.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
核建糾紛的各種樣態各種樣態是什麼你署裡面總要做一個調查吧對不對哪一些是因為資訊不對稱大概大的類別是哪幾種都抵觸了哪些法規你總要做一個完整研究報告我想這第一個功課第二個功課了解一下各地方政府的執行狀況現在台北市新北市有注意事項這個注意事項好不好用 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7974.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8003.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
有沒有有效的降低核建的糾紛有沒有讓資訊的揭露更加的透明讓雙方在這個資訊不對稱的狀況有沒有改善這我覺得也要有一個完整的說明如果有 其他縣市政府其實應該跟上嘛對不對 因為到處都有督更案慢慢遲早我們要把這個遊戲規則建立好嘛對不對 就這兩個大的功課那這些的報告可以做為未來我們要怎麼來修正法律作為很重要的一個參考來 部長 我要麻煩你一下這你要特別督導因為我覺得這是蠻重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8004.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8020.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我們現在這個要立個小軍令狀這其實不用那麼嚴肅但多少時間之內我們國督署可以把這個功課做出來作為我們討論這個法案的參考部長您心裡有沒有數對 報告委員您提的這個修正草案其實我們部裡頭跟署裡頭花很多時間來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8021.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8031.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
所以我們原則上是希望第一個給我們一點時間跟地方主管機關把所有的樣態以及主管機關他現在有的職權跟我們國土署所授予的職權要能夠弄清楚這是一個那再來就是有關您剛剛所提到的這個都更條例調次的安排是不是放在四條之一啊這個有關合建契約剛剛那個我們署長講得非常清楚必須要再討論一下講清楚一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8046.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8071.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那這個部分呢我們第一個就是我不曉得大院有沒有可能開公聽會按照地方政府上面對於都市更新以及剛剛有提到我們未來的發展還包括我們都更跟危老條例要做那個延長或是要做其他的這個更動部分全部包在一起的話我們是樂觀其成那如果沒有的話就是國土署自己來跟地方政府來處理有關於這個尤其是這一條都更條例裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8073.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8090.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們覺得要成就這樣子法條裡面所欠缺的部分來做補足所以時間你大概要多少時間去做這個事我們在今年內應該可以完成今年內半年內可以完成我希望啦反正這個會期看起來還要繼續延長啦我就希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8091.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8118.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
早一點有好的消息啦因為我覺得這是民生的事情嘛早一點討論然後也許有一個大家好的平衡我們就早一點讓這樣的新的制度可以上路我覺得這是我的期待好不好 這我覺得晚年太久了我想我也會主動跟地方政府還有相關的公會團體那甚至有一些案例我們也會邀請案例的地主都一起過來大家來表達一些意見那我們把問題都中整清楚三個月啦 好不好 三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8119.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8142.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
或者是你要有隨時報告的這樣子的一個準備啊對不對了解我想我們三個月內先完成相關的開會跟意見的收整好你會後提供一個三個月的時間的時間表啦就是說你可能三個月內不見的會馬上有一個明確的結論但你這三個月你要做什麼嘛好對不對我能夠把研究報告做出來嗎我能夠統審樣態嗎我能夠跟地方政府開多少次會排個時間表出來會後來做參考可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8143.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8157.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
好那最後我只有一句話提醒你那個老屋延壽的部分補助不是解決根本問題的方法根本問題方法之前我們在這邊開公聽會有討論其實應該設計公寓大廈的長期修繕計畫這我們後面有時間再來探討好不好請做好準備謝謝好謝謝牛許廷召委謝謝下一位我們請徐欣英委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8175.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8179.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
好謝謝主席本席有請劉部長劉部長有請佑文好部長好本席就先就剛剛有關我們這個合建契約的問題直接再追問就是說我們在這個合建契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8199.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8227.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
是否內政部有一些數據統計可以佐證就是說合建契約是否會因為行政審議的意見不一致導致履約過程中出現大量的訴訟爭端有沒有這種情況我請署長回答署長好感謝啦因為合建契約它內容不會反映不一定會反映在杜庚的計劃書裡面它往往都是雙方私人合議的一些內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8229.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8248.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
過去的經驗有沒有過去的經驗就是很容易因為資訊不對稱他不曉得都更的條例裡面有什麼樣的保障第二個呢過程當中有遇到政策或法令的修正導致雙方的權利義務會發生改變那這些就是一般在合建契約裡面最常出現的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8249.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8272.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那內政部有沒有規劃建立那種合建契約的參考版本或資訊平台讓各類型契約有指引就是因為樣態太多種我們樣態太多種沒有辦法用範本的方式因為你就依據不同樣態開始來做跟委員報告因為第一個這是私人契約我們不曉得他們中間的協議內容因為協議內容甚至從 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8276.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8296.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
單純的分屋分地道我沒辦法建立參考版本有沒有諮詢平台所以我根本報告就是說過去我們跟地方政府討論像雙北他們就是去訂出所謂的注意事項那我們覺得注意事項是一個非常好的機制那本席的問題就是說那有沒有要請各縣市政府他可以有一些諮詢平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8298.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8313.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
報告一下我們本來就有補助各縣市政府有相關的輔導團跟專案辦公室那你們的指導有沒有要他成立這個諮詢平台說明一下現在就是透過輔導團跟專案辦公室他們本身就可以做這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8314.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8331.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那現在只是說他們可以做但是他們有沒有做是一回事其實都有他們都有在接受做這些那接著本席繼續問針對核建爭議較多的類型是否可以先行分類建議原則性的指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8333.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8349.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
報告就是說我們現在就是跟地方政府討論雙北現在是用注意事項也就是說你在訂定這個合建契約的時候雙方要注意哪些內容那第二個呢我們現在還有在討論就是說另外叫做風險控管事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8350.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8379.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
風險控管制也就把過去常發生的樣態你們在執行過程當中要注意哪些執行的風險那提醒雙方在這合約裡面都應該要去注意或建立一些制度那目前部內有沒有五年合建案件爭議類型的分類統計報告目前是沒有但是我們都是透過這個部分我想我剛剛的意思就是說我們透過在跟地方開會請他們把這一類的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8379.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8395.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
過去所發生的糾紛通通大家統整起來我們來進行做一些分類那也可以提供作為後面我們要訂定相關注意事項跟風險控管事項的這個依據好那最後合建契約協議的輔導小組這一個可以來成立嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8400.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8408.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
包括就是我們會如果這個內容出來我們一樣會交給地方政府你會不會明確的規範請他們有這樣的一個小組對對應該這麼說啦就是我們目前的預算來講是用輔導團跟專案辦公室的形式那未來我們就再來跟在後面的委託裡面呢就會請他們把這些要輔導這個這個協議合建的部分一併都納進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8427.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8453.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
好謝謝那接著本席要接著問請教部長現在我們整個耐震弱成補強的這樣的一個推動成效好像不是很好報告因為其實我們每年都有編這個成效然後再來就是你一年也沒編多少錢我們一年有大概一億多一億多你看一年只可以補助幾戶你自己說應該這麼說我跟委員報告因為其實耐震補強的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8455.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8465.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
就會從出箱品開始那目前來講有一些民眾是不太願意是因為他們很擔心列出來的時候狀況沒有很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8467.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8489.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
中環沒有很好所以他沒辦法他會影響他的房價所以他不太願意跨出第一步但是因為從921之後然後陸續一些大地震我們都知道說我們事先的補強會有助於未來就是說預防災害的發生那如果你一年一億多我算了一下大概幾十戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8492.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8506.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們大概一年大概是五到七件五到七件對啊一年才五到七件一年大概是五到七件那你看全國一個縣是分不到一件所以這個我覺得很值得 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8507.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8534.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
檢討啊那因為我們有感覺到你在都會區或在非都會區應該是有它的差異像我們部長當過副市長嘛這光是高雄市區跟有沒有以前的高雄縣它就不一樣還有像我們其他非六都的縣市那其實有這種資訊落差的問題所謂資訊落差就是可能有些民眾他不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8535.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8562.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
其实以一般非都会区它也没有什么会影响它地价你这个可能还是都市思维所以这个部分我们是希望你这样一亿多真的太少好像只是点缀式的没有真的要做那这一块其实也是民众的权益民众的权益健全我们整个都市的发展我们都应该要兼顾所以这个部分应该要来加强吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8563.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8583.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這跟文報告啦其實我們大概每年都有去各縣市做推廣各縣市做推廣那其實我們剛剛講的是一個沒有各縣市推廣可是你一年只有幾間大概過去的經驗就去推廣大概民眾的反應是這樣啦因為尤其大概對於老舊的公寓大概都會有整合的問題因為要提到那陣補強 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8584.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8596.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那其實大家都要共同出資啦因為不會政府不可能百分之百還是會有共同出資的問題但是就會就會出現有人願意出資 有人不願意出資所以我們過去的輔導案件很多 整合的問題嘛對 也會出現整合的問題所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8601.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8615.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
過去在這個案例當中公寓大廈的管理組織其實是非常重要他要能夠去溝通所有的住戶大家一起願意來做那這也是一個很重要的成敗關鍵所以過去曾經我們也高達一年要編師幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8617.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8638.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
但是慢慢減少也是因為實際上就是因為你們落實不了所以一直減少應該是說在民眾這兩步要能跨得出去這樣會比較容易來執行那我們的宣導還有我們很多的溝通甚至我們的協助也很重要啊是譬如說我們有沒有考慮那種一站式的服務窗口讓各直轄市也好縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8639.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8662.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們應該就是說這個政策我們利益非常好剛剛署長講了本來一年可能十幾億甚至我們如果做得好幾十億我們就應該為民眾的這種耐震的弱成補強來加強那可是呢就實施的不好實施不好是因為什麼是因為我覺得有資訊的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8664.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8690.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
還有我們沒有確實去落實所以今天因為剛好有類似的議題所以本席也在這邊要特別的來強調部長加油一點可以嗎我們會來跟地方來加強第一個溝通第二個是宣傳把問題找出來然後我們應該要加強宣導然後地方政府他也應該要有一些這種服務的窗口要做好我想這我們後面會來加強宣導感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8693.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8702.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
謝謝徐欣穎委員 報告委員會 我們在林郡縣委員諮詢完後休息五分鐘下一位請鄭振淺委員諮詢鄭振淺委員 鄭振淺委員不在下一位我們請林郡縣委員諮詢謝主席 本席邀請我們內政部的劉部長劉部長有請還有我們國土署吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8720.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8740.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
林委員好保證你好 部長部長我現在要講的是對於南科周邊交通非常重要的建設這相關地理位置部長不一定清楚啦 但吳署長非常了解那只要拜託部長 部長你負責支持就好了第一個 南科啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8744.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8774.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
南科現在發展非常快速他去年產值就已經超過足科了而且就業人口飛來越來越多但是他周邊的交通趕不上他的發展所以其實從賴清德總統擔任市長的時候他就準備要再多建幾條橋跨過曾文溪其中南科那條烏橋中路這輸掉你知道嗎烏橋中路現在從南科幾乎是由南向西北 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8774.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8774.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8775.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8804.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
由南向西北喔 將它弄到曾文溪變成不飛行啦我們現在要起一條橋由烏橋中路喔 建一條跨曾文溪的大橋 到麻豆讓南科的人到麻豆 十分鐘啦 一樣啦 麻豆要來南科也十分鐘啦所以說你現在烏橋中路從南科到麻豆 過溪溪邊一條防汛道路喔 叫南四十嘛我們要先平安嘛 南四十你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8805.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8826.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
目前的計畫喔 蘇長 我們是向北走啦是先走到第一階段 走到麻山大橋嘛是對不對 對但是到麻山大橋是還不夠啦它的效應應該在麻山大橋再往東北去走到北阿西啦接到八十四快速道路啦是後面這一段喔 我們趕快再納入新的計畫啦但是 這整個經緯喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8832.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8859.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
差不多要30倍的話那我們地方自籌8億8千萬的話可能需要中央補助大概有29億多了那現在也感謝啦 我知道部長有給我們支持部長也有支持我們這條橋的計劃所以希望在今年能夠先核定我們的先期的工程款 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8861.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8864.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
OK 因為這 開始那個委員 跟貴委員兩個 都有去現場有請出國立便 都有來請出國立便 其實這幾天來 市府都有站出來所以在這個新澤當中 列到生活圈的部分 我們大概從兩年前就開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8879.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8902.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
協助市府在提出相關的申請那所以在今年的部分我們都有簽報到部裡面那因為審議會的部分大概沒有問題因為所有的審查委員都認同這條道路的這個烏橋中路的一個重要性還有這個南市市的這個拓寬我想這部分我們後續都會持續來協助好 非常感謝署長 保證再拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8904.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8923.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這個其實喊了很多年啦你看從賴總統當賴市長的時候就開始規劃那地方聽到這樣的一個無潮中路的跨西大橋跨正溫區大橋大概五六年前一直到現在啦現在我們才總算有核定下來報告林委員我在上個禮拜已經有批准了 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8924.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8947.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
對 我知道 你有就批的是第一期的先期工程款啦對當然我後面會是滾動式來進行啦對 因為土地取得的部分還要再處理啦對其他的都不是困難的地方說明會也已經在開完了啦對那我會請市政府的相關單位公務局等來全力配合我們內政部這裡是那也感謝部長的支持啦但是一條橋要不夠啦其實要再需要另外一條橋啦這條橋叫做南41啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8956.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8963.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
因為現在台南南柯對外的一條命脈叫西港大橋西港大橋最塞車的橋有15名公務總局的統計早上七點到八點上班時間一個小時超過三千輛車上橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8976.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8983.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
所以我剛才說的烏橋中路就要解決舒緩西港大橋的塞車 還有這條橋這條就是嘉麗的南40號直接往南來跨過曾文溪 走到台南才有新街 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8999.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9011.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
讓嘉麗要過來到市區往南道市區不必再走西港大橋同樣可以減緩西港大橋的塞車我們辦過幾次的會跟內政部國土署 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9016.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9033.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我在上個月也在我辦公室召開協調會我們書裡面也表達同意今天在這裡拜託保證我再讓你知道這個事情也請保證要支持了解因為剛起步我想我們都會一路協助市府逐步來提 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9034.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9056.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那他或許在甚至在這一期還來不及但是我想有提案的話有提案的話就算這一期來不及也會把它延續到下一期去執行對因為南科一定非常重要全世界最重要的高科技的半導體相關東西都在南科生產所以我們必須要改善它已經非常嚴重的對外交通所以這條橋再做起來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9059.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9078.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那對於當地交通的改善喔 這個也非常有用拜託請主席再給我一分鐘啦喔 另外一個喔這條路就輸掉了 我知道 這個非常地方啦 就像溪水路喔 古溪水路到明陵路路口就是說你走明陵路 你要往裡面溪水路喔 這喜思路它有兩節嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9080.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9085.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那裡只有8米啦進去又變成18米啦所以經常發生車禍啦所以我們以前有說這個明天喔 我禮拜那時候這才有700多米喔要把它拓乾到18米 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9096.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9120.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
市長你 我覺得你在台南的選擇 何時選擇你廢坑也把你提到這條路有 你之前廢坑的選擇就提出來 企務也有提出來所以他前面那個擁地的部分 他已經在進行了市府提出來是因為市府要負責土地對所以他們現在已經在進行了所以這個部分在生活圈的審查裡面大概也沒有問題因為這個是很明確屬於平井路段要打通 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9121.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9139.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
這條我拜託保庭,保庭有答應把它框架起來,不想要把它框架下來現在就等我們地方完整相關土地的地格,我們就可以來做了這個沒有問題,因為剛好灣里的重劃也要,洗漱灣里的重劃也要完成喔,它在陽果地啦,以前我告訴你,它在陽果地現在種的要好了,所以它會長很多人啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9142.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9160.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
所以這條路的拓寬是適合的那我們感謝部長的支持那或許的話在地方的用地取得然後再跟內政部這裡來配合好不好是好感謝部長感謝署長好謝謝主席好謝謝林俊憲委員我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9555.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9565.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
報告委員會我們繼續開會我們今天中午不休息現在我們請鄭天才委員質詢鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在下一位我們請徐富貴委員質詢謝主席有請我們劉部長跟我們國度署吳署長劉部長吳署長有請徐委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9586.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9613.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
部長我想我們過去謝謝部長一直關心我們屏東縣的各項建設但是我們現在還是有幾個問題要請部長再繼續給我們支持部長我們去年成功達成八年二十萬的社宅的一個政策目標那我們目前訂立的新的目標是2032年要達到一百萬那目前這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9614.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9637.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
看起來大概是六度的比例比較高那非六度的部分加起來好像連第四名的桃園市都還有一點落差那我想當然區域均衡發展是一個未來我們很重要的一個政策我想也是我們賴總統一直要求的一個處理的一個機制那針對屏東縣的部分部長這部分能不能再給我們怎麼樣的一個協助好謝謝感謝委員因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9642.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9650.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
其實我們在非六都也沒有放棄因為我們也參考地方的實際需求來做佈建以屏東來講在屏東市區還有內埔、潮州 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9657.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9675.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那還有到到這個恆春那甚至到相關的這個萬丹什麼也都在有研力在設置那所以我們這樣用逐步的佈建只要地方需求是很明確的這我們都會去努力我想我們都市的一個進步我們也需要做很多的一個超前的規劃跟部署啦那當然目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9676.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9693.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我們屏東市跟潮州都已經在興建當中那另外還有規劃了三個地方那其中恆春的部分112年就已經我們已經完成絕標待開工但到目前為止好像還沒有一個進度目前有遇到什麼困境嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9695.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9719.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我們說因為他前期就會有這一個呃相關的這個規劃設計還有這一個都市設計的審查那所以我們大概都會有給他一個預定的期間啦所以不會說絕標完馬上開工因為他後面還有細部設計跟相關的審查進行有有都有照進度在執行蘇良大概什麼時候可以動工這部分看住都這邊有沒有呃名比較明確的時間恆春的部分對 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9727.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9741.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
八五園恆春當然絕標 現在在設計中要申請建造 那個通過之後就會舉辦開工典禮 今年會有機會嗎我們拚看看 拚今年 拚這個 其他的部分包含我們潮州還有其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9742.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9753.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
科學園區周邊的萬丹 我想未來我們都是有計劃能夠希望再配合縣政府 我們就繼續研議看適合的地點跟那個需求啦我想還是我們趕快來盤點啦 那這部分我也會請我們縣政府這邊來配合一下啦那另外我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9762.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9776.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
要謝謝部長我們去年的時候針對我們這個整個墾丁國家公園有一些的洋傘之亂這些問題我想都有目前都有一個很好的一個改善的一個方案那但是現在還是有幾個問題要請部長這邊來幫忙部長我想過去我們國家公園這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9780.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9802.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
墾丁國家公園已經成立41年了也是我們全國第一個國家公園但是過去因為我們著重在一個生態保育的一個觀念裡面但是現在我們的觀光發展已經到一個階段了那我想我們國家公園署成立之後也應該把觀光的一個要件應該併在我們的一個工作的一個項目裡面部長認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9805.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9824.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
謝謝因為國家公園署也剛成立不久那我們一定會配合包括地方上面在墾丁國家公園的部分那其實兩個禮拜前我們也在那邊有辦過音樂祭的活動可能許委員非常清楚目前洋傘的之亂其實獲得比較大的改善但是還仍然還有精進的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9825.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9846.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我們也是希望加快我們整個因為跟交通部我們陳部長有提過我們希望跨部會來整合尤其我們這個整個棚管處的範圍一直到我們坑管處的範圍其實都可以連成一個袋裝的觀光地帶那當然我們一定贊成生態保護一點愛者這是我們最重要的一個資源但是觀光的部分一定要跨部會來整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9847.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9857.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那部長另外一個很嚴重的問題是說我們的米耗跟梅花路數量太多而且把我們的這個農作物破壞得很嚴重我們到底有沒有一個策略可以來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9858.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9877.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
是 報告委員那個墾丁國家公園的部分跟其他國家公園都一樣都有碰到這個猕猴或者是梅花鹿甚至還有綠烈蜥這個部分那因為目前我們的主管機關大概是農業部我們會配合農業部因為它既然是生態保育 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9877.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9878.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這真的很困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9903.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9908.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
這真的比較困難所以我想說 是不是可以 屏東管政部跟農業部的林保署可以共同來配合 我們一定會配合 這部分我們希望部長你有那個高度 我相信大家會來合作一下怎麼樣有效地來遏止這樣的一個生態的浩劫好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9932.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9934.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
謝謝徐副委員下一位我們請張雅玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9942.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9966.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
謝謝主席 那麼有請署長吳署長有請部長可以先休息部長先休息一下好 我很好好 謝謝謝謝署長那主要就是說因為根據都市計畫法第45條裡面它一條規定叫做公園 體育場所 綠地 兒童遊戲場等等因依計畫人口密度及自然環境作為系統之部件除具有特殊情形外 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9967.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9989.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
其佔有地面積總面積不得少於全部計劃的面積10%這是目前我們的都市計劃法有一這樣子的規定但是我調閱了相關國土署的一些統計資料從110年到112年基本上最高的只有澎湖縣達到接近10%就是9.6%其他都是低於的 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9990.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10013.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
第二個就是高雄市有到8.7那許多縣市大概是持平或是維持逐步微微的上漲但是有三個縣市第一個就是嘉義縣它從3.3到現在已經只剩2.9那嘉義市也是那其中彰化縣是從6降到2.4%那我想了解因為我們做這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10014.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10041.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
調查應該是逐步的希望說我們可以達到10%嘛那現在針對於這些掉下來的我們沒有去了解原因是什麼報告因為這一個10%這一個的確當時的定義是希望台灣的這個都市計畫區的公共設施品質尤其是公園綠地方面能夠逐步的成長那事實上在但真的在修法之後回過頭去檢視才發現既有的都市計畫區幾乎都不太可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10042.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10070.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那後來有些為了要補足這樣一個面積在規劃的過程當中去大肆做了很多的補正補強去規劃但是事實上又面對了它化了以後又要面臨徵收的問題那所以在長期間這樣二三十年下來也發現確實是難以執行那所以後來在相關的公設保留地的策略裡面呢去允許他做一些檢討所以他做一些檢討就如果確實難以執行的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10070.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10097.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
可能必須要檢討去取消那所以才會有這樣的一個政策的循環但是另外一個就是說大家對於可以取得的這樣的一個項目裡面就透過去加強做建設來希望來補足對這一個都市計畫區內民眾的一個實際需要那其他的部分就透過比較大型的開放空間的設計才去做要求也就是說你有大的建案那我就鼓勵你去做留設開放空間出來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10099.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10117.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
另外一種類型的去補足公園綠地的一個不足是這樣的一個概念但是我想了解就是說最主要是我們今天為什麼要公園綠地或是兒童遊戲場的空間最主要是提升生活品質嘛對不對這是世界的一些要求嘛但是我想針對的是彰化縣它從6它原本可以做到6可是它降到2.4% |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10119.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10140.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這或許是一個統計上的一個落差啦因為我們不太可能讓他減那麼多這部分是不是容我們回去再調查清楚再回來告訴再給我們一個簡單的說明好不好那第二個部分就是說因為剛剛有講到說現在要達到這10%非常難但是你們有透過一些方法怎樣去爭取一些開放空間那我想了解一下更精確的我們如果針對一些重劃區我們有一些重劃區的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10140.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10166.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
是不是可以從這裡面也去來要求呢有沒有一些更積極的作為可以去要求他們去開設出這樣子的綠地特別是兒童遊戲場的部分跟委員報告的確因為委員這樣的要求我覺得事實上是可行的只是說過去在相關重化的公共建設的項目裡面是公園綠地通常都是先以綠地化的方式配上少部分的油氣設施去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10167.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10186.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
他當時擔心的就是說我做了以後萬一五年內人口不夠多我很可能又要面臨設施更新所以他在早期的這個重化工程的項目裡面並不會特別去做那通常都是透過事後的追加也就是透過這個重化工程的盈餘再去做補足這樣的設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10187.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10197.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那有關這一點我想我們可以再跟地政司再跟地政司去討論看看是不是請他來要求各地方政府在執行公園 純化區的公園綠地的工程項目裡面主動把兒童遊戲設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10202.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10224.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
把他納進去那這樣他在第一時間就可以執行不然這就會變成是說你等到都已經蓋好了之後你這一塊又變成是你要到你只能在那個很有限的面積裡面去做對又到時候又變成大家互爭空間互相爭空間這個部分大概我們什麼時候可以來追相關的進度的我想委員這個存語我想我來跟地政司討論一下因為地政司他必須要找各縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10224.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10232.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
去討論把它納到項目裡面去好那我們一個月之後我們再來跟您了解一下進度好嗎好那謝謝那我們先找一下都督中心抱歉剩下24秒很快請花董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10236.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10259.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
好 謝謝喔 董事長好 就是說因為住宿中心就是管我們很多的社宅的建制嘛那但是因為我之前看了一些社宅的建案裡面通常兒少休息設施是比較少的 比較說是一些可能是一些開放空間啊 有一些步道那這個部分我們是不是也可以在相關的社宅把兒少遊戲空間這東西把它納入呢 主動納入這個部分當然就我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10261.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10289.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
開放的空間的部分我們會做一些整理規劃那委員今天提起來我們回去就來規劃檢討那最後一點時間就是說我希望這次可以來把它納入因為竟然社宅就是會很多年輕家庭那也有可能是長照的設施大家會需要一些休憩的設備這個部分應該要主動納入那同時我也希望在做這些相關規劃的時候我們可以找一些兒少的專家團體一起來看這些設施是不是有符合那邊未來的一些需求好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10289.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10291.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
OK好謝謝謝謝委員指導好謝謝我們張雅玲委員剛剛委員詢答要提的相關資料請部會會後提供好下一位我們請吳啟明委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10311.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10321.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
好 主席 我們與會同仁 請我們內政部不用 部長不用我們花俊請請花董事長好 發誓還有我們國土署署長吳組長有請好 兩位市長針對我們的都市老舊建築物 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10338.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10343.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
的整建,因為這是我們上會期,發展前還沒當董事長所以那時候我們要補助這圍爐,圍爐的費用現在我看,全國的超過30年的已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10357.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10362.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
還有存在喔非常的多那尤其雙北就佔了150萬戶那未來呢我們這補助的經費沒有了那未來我們推動可能又會自愛燃省 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10375.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10393.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
因為危老重建條例的部分因為到116年就落日所以各界其實都希望我們來延長這部分我們已經有在研擬修法的內容就可以來推出第二個就是說我們也會把原來的相關的規模獎勵來做一些延續當然都會經過檢討看看大家實施的狀況我們會來做一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10400.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10406.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那大致上朝向修法延長的部分大概沒有問題會朝這個方向來進行因為我們台灣是在我們的地層 地層帶上面所以說你超過30年的維羅這都是急迫性我們要去推動所以說你在補助的方面要是缺少了那民間投資意願又減少那你這個推動就自愛人心 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10428.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10454.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
這一點是我們中央政府要去考量所以在這裡我也要拜託說有錢的你看現在我們很多地震包含在我們新北到過去我們的花蓮新北這裡他的房子已經都不能住了,他也都可以退房單但是你說他還存在台灣存在非常多所以說這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10456.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10465.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
也拜託我們中央政府,拜託國土署,大家共同推動好,那署長你先等我,我問花次好,董事長,現在我們社會住宅,尤其在我的選區裡面現在目前要推動,尤其,我說過去在我們中央路的一間市村,延滅機會最大 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10482.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10508.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那些都是原地的,現在沒錢,那些地會幾位有辦法落實下去推動嗎?所以我請這幾位來問這個OK,跟委員報告,那個我們的名稱叫做土城熱力段那一塊我們已經朝用我們自己出資來做都更的方式來蓋社會住宅現在已經整合的比例非常高,我們暗算應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10510.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10510.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
因為我們社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10519.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10543.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
普遍的民眾 大家的接受度都非常高所以說接受度高 我們如果推動了讓我們能夠顧到 大家可以居住正義也顧到很多年輕人 很多弱勢的人因為大家有一個好處因為你現在說要買一般的住宅現在先去的 根本你如果說上班族的啦還是弱勢的 他們根本就買不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10544.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10563.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以說你社會住宅一推動普遍接受度都是非常高所以說在這個部分我們一定要說冠軍來推動 尤其我們現在有很多從化區從化區的比例 社會住宅的比例一定要把 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10563.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10586.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
再加進去還有我們一些國有土地國有土地其實很多啊國有土地因為你社會住宅既然接受度高又可以壓制於房價所以現在推動普遍民眾接受度是我們鋪裡面跟署裡面都有在盤點然後就只是我們住入中心來辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10587.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10597.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
對 因為我們大家對我們政府也很有信心不然你說很多人買不起房子到時候也說中央的政策是不是有問題你有問題 我們就趕快說朝廷說一般他們的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10603.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10625.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這是我們中央政府要來推動的目標啦 好不好好 謝謝委員好 感謝 謝謝也感謝召委啦好 謝謝吳清明委員的諮詢辛苦 喘口氣 喘口氣好 下一位我們請蔡易瑜委員諮詢蔡易瑜委員 蔡易瑜委員不在下一位我們請王宏威委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10632.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10636.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
好謝謝主席我請部長還有署長吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10641.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10660.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
王委員好 部長好 署長好延續剛才吳委員特別提到的危老的時程獎勵事實上在去年的4月份同樣在內政委員會我就特別的提及有關於我們的危老因為我們的時程獎勵遞減一直到5月10號之後也就現在事實上已經沒有時程獎勵了 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10668.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10694.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
所以當時在一年之前我就提出因為在尤其在都會區尤其在雙北因為我們的老舊房子非常非常之多那麼危老重建其實有其必要所以我當時就要求我們內政部還有我們國土署要針對危老的部分在實成獎勵應該提出新的辦法但是非常可惜一年過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10694.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10721.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
一年過去了時辰獎勵歸為零了就是歸為零他事實上就已經沒有誘因了當然我知道你們現在提出來所謂的規模獎勵可是確實危老獎勵就是因為他沒有有的是比較小範圍他可以趕快的去做重建因為你要把它變得更大的一個範圍的話其實他要去協調的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10723.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10750.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
就住戶就非常多好我們來看因為我們知道在今年就是因為實產獎勵即將落日所以呢在今年年初那麼整個的危老重建的計畫這個案子就來得非常非常之多所以如果你可以看六都來說以危老重建計畫跟都市更新的進度危老的件數要遠遠大於都市更新對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10751.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10773.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
他為什麼不走都市更新都市更新因為他的產權複雜所以就圍牢他比較容易嘛當然我們做整個的都更我知道你們希望能夠他的範圍大一點讓整個市容變得比較漂亮可是其實我們做圍牢有一個非常非常重要就是防災 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10774.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10799.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
就是防災所以到现在为止为老的时辰奖励已经完全没有了只剩下时辰奖励但是你的对不起只剩下规模奖励你的规模奖励真的能够去促进这些为老的重建吗你知道以我们台北市我们台北市好多其实很多的案子因为到了5月10号临了他们就通通都没有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10800.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10817.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
但我剛才看大概有起碼一百多件將近兩百件很可惜啊他們本來也希望趕快跟時間賽跑所以請問我一年前就提出來你不要跟我講一年後你還在研擬中那個這個就要昏倒啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10820.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10837.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
其實我們當時在提出以這個規模獎勵來取代實成獎勵大概就是一個概念因為實成獎勵是一個空白授權的容積獎勵空白授權的容積獎勵它對於實施者來講不需要付出其他任何代價就直接拿到的容積獎勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10838.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10866.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那所以對於過去長期有出現這一種已經類似紙片屋的這個房子其實不太對於它的結構安全甚至像剛剛委員所提到的防災其實它沒有辦法有任何的幫助那規模獎勵其實我們也沒有說規模獎勵要大到很大其實它只要有提到200平方公尺所以你這個意思就是說我說明一下大概60坪的土地就可以申請到規模獎勵大概200平方公尺60坪左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10866.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10884.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
所以他沒有很大就可以申請到規模獎勵此外他原有的30%的容積獎勵還是都保留著所以我們是用這差距的10%我們就是用規模獎勵來做取代這一點是沒有變的因為大致上過去找地方政府來談他們也贊成其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10886.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10899.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
那我就要看你們最後的成果所以我剛剛講 圍牢就是因為有實成獎勵所以它的數量真的就比都更來得多很多也加速了重建因為時間關係 另外請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10902.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10917.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
去年0403花蓮地震一周年當時有很多開紅單黃單的建樹然後當時也提出了我們有補強的補貼但是我們如果來看全 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10917.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10923.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
台灣來說我們現在顯然去當時核定的這些紅單黃單的動數那麼以目前來講那麼真正核定的件數事實上呢是低於真的是遠遠低於當時的紅黃單的件數然後呢在應該上個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10941.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10957.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
在整個的檢討的時候那麼說在這些的補強案件裡面呢有很多在花蓮有半數呢是在卡在中央審查那我想請問一下這個進度可不可以可不可以加強加快加快進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10959.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10985.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
好 感謝委員因為在過程當中的確因為耐震補強的部分它要經過這個結構的設計還有結構的審查那在之前也有反應就是希望國政中心這裡能夠再提供更多的人力因為他們分三組結果民眾是認為你現在是說人數不足對 國政中心後來有加快因為它本來是三組人後來有增加到五組人 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10986.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11001.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
就是希望透過這種方式來加快審查第二個就是說跟民眾的溝通因為民眾有一些對於哪些可以列入耐震補強項目哪一些不屬於那過去一直有意見那我們前一陣子也都有請他們跟民眾做溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11002.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11019.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
我覺得在台灣地震常常就是好了傷疤忘了痛在一次大電震之後過一段時間呢大家好像有點遺忘然後整個的進度就開始牛步化甚至是龜步化可是我們永遠不知道下一場大地震什麼時候來什麼時候來 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11021.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11048.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
所以你剛剛在講人數的問題我也覺得很驚訝就是說其實我們應該全力的尤其這邊已經開紅單跟黃單開紅單黃單那老實講最近花蓮附近還是一直不停的有地震頻傳所以在這個部分我希望在因為如果說還有半數都在中央卡在中央你可不可以給我一個時間你多久時間可以把它消化完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11049.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11050.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我想我趕快來找這個國政中心來看看他們最近的執行進度在會後我想提供給委員這個報告提出有關於花蓮地震 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11067.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11083.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
目前的耐震補強相關不是只有花蓮我關心台北也很多台北還有新北其實老實講並不容易啦我們自己選區裡面會也是因為它不同的洞然後它就是在那一部分它很複雜 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11084.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11104.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
但是我們都很怕下一次地震來因為它會影響到其他隔壁棟它有些是連結的這邊貼黃單那邊沒有貼黃單可是旁邊沒有貼黃單也非常擔心所以這個部分請加快腳步那拜託在我們會後你可不可以一個禮拜之內給我們至少書面的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11108.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11135.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
謝謝王文威委員下一位我們請邱志偉委員質詢邱志偉委員邱志偉委員不在下一位我們請蘇清泉委員質詢蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在下一位我們請林楚英委員質詢林楚英委員林楚英委員不在下一位我們請楊瓊英委員質詢楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在下一位我們請何新淳委員質詢何新淳委員何新淳委員不在下一位我們請陳冠廷委員質詢陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11135.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11159.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
最後我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢鍾嘉斌委員不在登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢我們詢答到此結束高金素美委員 邱振軍委員 丁學忠委員所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11161.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11178.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
報告委員會剛剛討論事項因為我們在詢答的時候已經跟國土署這邊達成共識三個月內這個政府提具相關的報告跟資料以立法案的後續審查因此討論事項所列議案另定期繼續審查本次會議到此結束現在散會 |