| IVOD_ID |
16656 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16656 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-08T08:31:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-08T11:17:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:45:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db1a3f2a9ffa300804b6918ac9a813397514bfadd538e1bbbf94caf5a3eeb1249e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查：
一、行政院函請審議「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
三、本院委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
四、本院委員李坤城等16人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
（本日僅進行詢答；第三案及第四案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查。）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:01 - 11:17:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
257.219 |
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MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
318.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
318.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
604.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
624.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
谢谢观看 欢迎订阅 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
638.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
639.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
by bwd6 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
673.729 |
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674.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
861.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
863.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
893.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
893.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
948.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
967.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
感谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1052.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1075.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
谢谢观看 欢迎订阅 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1137.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1139.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1285.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1285.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1587.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1588.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1868.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1882.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好 請組密報告出席人數報告全體會 出席委員11人 已組法定人數現在開會 進行報告事項 請宣讀上次會議事錄100年第11屆第三會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議事錄時間114年4月30日星期三 9時3分至12時55分114年5月1日星期四 9時3分至11時40分 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1894.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1911.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
地點 紅樓101會議室 初期委員林黛嬅等12人 請教委員2人 列席委員林德甫等18人列席人員 114年4月30日星期三 農業部部長陳俊濟等114年5月1日星期四 經濟部部長郭志輝等 主席 謝昭吉 文一鳳 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1912.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1936.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
114年4月30日星期三 報告事項先讀上次會議事錄 決定 確定討論事項 審查本院委員林一錦等22人拟據動物保護法部分條件修正草案等26案討論事項 合併詢答 委員洪孟凱 蘇巧慧 郭益晴 羅廷偉 李坤成 楊瓊英及張綺凱說明提案要旨 農業部部長陳俊記報告後 委員林戴化等18人提出質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1937.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1955.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
經由農業部部長陳俊記等及其答覆登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘經與發言完畢 詢答結束委員 邱益穎 張雅玲及徐欣穎所提書面質詢列入記錄 刊登公報書面質詢核位及答覆部分及相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會決議詢答結束 令定期繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1960.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1977.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
114年5月1日星期四討論事項審查本院委員魯明哲等19人委員謝一鳳等17人分別擬據再生能源發展條例第13條條例修正草案等二案討論事項合併詢答經濟部部長郭志輝報告後委員陳廷輝等14人提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1978.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1993.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
經由經濟部部長郭志輝及相關人員及其答覆登記發言委員除不在場者外 其議均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員林黛嬅所提書面質詢列入記錄 刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分 請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1995.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2016.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
決議一第十三條條文照委員謝一鳳等人提案及委員楊強英等人所提修正動議通過二並按審查文件擬拒審查報告提報院會討論不需交由黨團協商並推起謝昭吉委員一鳳與院會討論時作補充說明主席宣告通過這條文相關法制擁有授權主席及議事人員整理、散會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2025.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2052.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好 我們待會再來處理議事錄繼續進行討論事項 請宣讀討論事項 審查行政行政審議個人資料保護法部分條件修正查案二 本院委員王美惠等18人拟據個人資料保護法部分條件修正查案三 本院委員羅定偉等17人拟據個人資料保護法部分條件修正查案四 本院委員李坤成等16人拟據個人資料保護法部分條件修正查案 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2057.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2076.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本日議程所討論事項個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案共計有四個版本那我們先來介紹我們今天列席的機關首長那首先由我們個人資料保護委員會的籌備處主任李仕德李主任好 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2080.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2101.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那還有我們司法院民事廳我們的法官張宇家張法官謝謝那數位發展部法制處副處長吳怡倫國家通訊傳播委員會法律事務處處長蔡志儒謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2106.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2135.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那國家通訊傳播委員會平台事業管理處副處長黃天陽謝謝經濟部法制司副司長黃婉玉衛生福利部資訊處副處長王美珠謝謝國家安全局秘書室副主任李沒有寫名字李副主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2140.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2164.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
內政部資訊服務司有列席的相關官員那還有我們交通部科技及資訊司副司長王東琦法務部法治司副司長兼參事謝志明 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2166.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2178.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好 那以上的機關就有 皆有率相關的人員來列席那我就沒有再一一介紹那我們現在現場與會的委員有我們邱義營邱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2184.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2197.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那本案有四個版本我們現在先請提案的委員來說明提案要旨那第一個是請王美惠委員那王美惠委員是王美惠委員不在請羅廷偉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2198.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2213.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
羅廷維委員羅廷維委員不在請李坤城委員李坤城委員李坤城委員不在好那我們現在請個人資料保護委員會籌備處李仕德主任就行政院版本及委員提案進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2224.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2250.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生媒體早我們今天奉邀列席貴委員會就審查行政院函請審議個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案還有委員王美惠等人還有委員羅廷瑋等人及委員李坤成等人共事案的個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案代表本籌備處報告並被質詢深感榮幸 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2254.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2271.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
本籌備處緊究個人資料保護法研修的政策及會診 答應各委員會所擬版本質修法重點 檢要報告如下 請請指教1.個人資料保護法之研修政策的說明 按各執法的適用對象廣泛 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2271.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2288.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
涵蓋全國公務機關及非公務機關其中公務機關含全國各機關構及公立學校數已經有8000多餘個那目前言而上的話是由他們依各執法來進行自我的管理非公務機關部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2289.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2313.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
就非常廣泛若僅以營利事業登記為例目前的統計數據已經達165萬餘個目前皆由各目的事業主管機關中央跟地方來分別管理當然還有包含其他各類的非營利事業團體還有廣大可能會利用個人資料收集資料來進行相關業務執行的這些業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2318.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2334.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那鉴于各自法修法的政策影响层面非常广大本筹备处为任务型机关以建置个人制药保护委员会相关的监管机构为最优先的任务所以各自法应分阶段来进行修正规划 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2335.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2355.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
本階段的修正主要是配合各自會的成立賦予各自會相關的執法權限那包含對公務機關與非公務機關之行政監督以及公務機關之上級或監督機關非公務機關之中央或地方目的世界主管之協力合作的機制等配套規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2356.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2376.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那至於下一階段還有很多各自法要修正的這個實質的議題本籌配處會持續的進行研議規劃會交由給正式成立的各自會以各自法主法及官制地位跟續的進行通盤修正研議及立法政策的決定那本次 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2377.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2395.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
行政院通過審議的各自法部分條文修正常有三個重點以下簡單敘述依我們賦予給各自會必要的監管權限那除增訂第三章之一行政監督外那其他例如有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2397.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2412.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
碰到有各自外界事故目前我們的修正草案是規定都要應通報主管機關在一定範圍之內那其餘也有包含授權各自會去訂定各類公務機關非公務機關之基礎版的安全維護辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2414.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2429.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那也還包含到由各自會來召開個人資料保護推進會議的這個權限第二點強化公務機關之各自保護監管那目前這邊公務機關的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2430.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2446.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
他是全面就納入由各執會來進行監管那為了要配合一個很重要的這些內部監管的事務的推動我們優先先在公務機關裡面推動個人治療保護長的這個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2447.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2472.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
來負責推動及督導考核機關內部所屬的個資保護事務那此外還有很多包含個資保護管理事項的實施提出在我們相關的條文裡面也有去規範給公務機關必須要去執行的相關個資保護的一個新的制度所以我們來優先在公務機關先設計這樣的一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2476.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2502.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那至於非公務機關是不是也要有個人資料保護長我們目前這個版本的草案雖然暫時還沒有先放入但我們剛才已經提到說二階段的修法在下一階段因為這個影響會更大所有非公務機關的個人資料保護長的制度的一個研議跟推動我們會再多廣征各界的共識之後再來推行這樣的一個修法研議那畢竟 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2505.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2521.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
組織的一個變革它是需要有一個組織文化的一個配合那這樣子整個推動起來才會產生它原本預期的這樣一個效益好那三優先納管無人監理的這個業務分階段集中事權 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2523.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2538.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
剛剛再提到另外一面非公務機關的這部分我們目前原則上先採用一個分階段再把這些個人資料監管的這個權限一一再回收再沒有先公告這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2541.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2560.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個變動說前期規管之前我們會先鎖定幾個重要的這些已經目前進階段分別監管的情況之下已經有實際在做監管的重點工作內容的這些行業先暫時還是維持有現有的分管機關來主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2561.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2582.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那由行政院公告一定範圍的公務機關我們在6年的過渡期間之內會逐步的檢討再回收到由個人資料保護委員會來做統一監管那其餘若沒有列在這個公告範圍的話就各種的非公務機關原則上就是由個人資料保護委員會來進行監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2584.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2597.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那相關六年過渡時間裡面各個目的世界主管機關跟個人資料保護會彼此之間的配套執法的機制在我們這次修正查案也有列入 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2598.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2622.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那以上是整個修正查案我們先大概摘出三個重點那二就是有關於大便委員組領據的修正案那在這部分目前也都是先根據行政院審議通過的版本來做修正跟調整那我們節省時間我就把它再分類成三個部分 檢要跟委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2623.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2639.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
來做說明一就是有關於各自外洩的事故發生之後通知當事人部分在這邊相關的提案有委員王美惠等人所提出來的領據案裡面有提到說因於窒息後24小時內通知當事人 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2639.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2665.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那本籌配數的意見是先考量到各自事故的樣態不同各個事故機關能夠有效掌握的資訊也不同所以事故發生時優先防範事故的擴大在這邊可能會比較是主要緊急需要先去處理的情況所以我們對於說在進行相關通知當事人的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2666.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2681.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
原則上我們現在先把它留在執法裡面再來做一個彈性的一個規定說他的通知的一個目前性就在那個期限安排那先不硬性的在母法先放一個劃一的這個時間點那 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2683.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2703.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
以這樣子的一個考量,我們覺得說榮獲在未來在研定執法的時候,我們再看不同的事態跟樣態,再來處理通知當事人的這樣一個時間跟時效但是目前我們的修法方向呢,就是先原則上我們把現行法說要經查明之後再通知當事人 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2703.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2717.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
的這個門檻我們會先把它拿掉以避免以前一直都有一個爭議說那要查到多久那至少我們先以這樣的一個方式來先做規劃那二對於公務機關的監管部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2718.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2743.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那相關提案有委員李昆成等人還有網美會委員等人所凝聚的這個修正草案分別都有提到說對於公務機關的這個監管那主管機關每年每兩年就要辦理一次的這樣的一個集合的這樣的規劃然後這些相關集合結果定期公開那另外也有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2744.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2770.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
對於各支會有關於公務機關未依各支法的這個各支會的這個命令去限期改正的話要因公佈其名稱跟違法情節那這部分投配處的意見是認為現階段因為對於各支的監管能量有限是不是要硬性的先去訂一個很平凡的說幾年就是一定要進行一個這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2772.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2776.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我們的這樣的一個集合的一個程序我們榮獲是希望說這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2777.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2804.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
先不要把它定職因為這裡面公務機關有中央地方的這樣的一個差異性又很大那輪候在我們在訂相關的執法裡面再用彈性的方法來做處理那若是集合的一個結果我們是用一個統計數據去做一個公布的情況之下我們這部分當然是建議就用現用的統計法的相關規定來做公布即可 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2805.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2829.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那至於說另外要去對於說公務機關的違法情節是應公佈其名稱跟違法情節那這部分投杯處的意見是這一個所謂的公佈名稱跟違法情節它是一個行政處分它不是一個資訊公開那這個行政處分本來就是要看它的一個情況來做決定所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2830.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2845.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
也認為說這方面能不能先用我們目前現在行政院版本的一個處理模式是把它定位成是一個行政組份的一個裁量那這部分當然就要看個案再來做決定那三 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2847.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2869.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
委員的提案裡面有一塊是在處理非公務機關監管事權集中的過渡期間的安排這裡面有委員王美惠等人還有委員羅廷瑋等人分別有去提到說是不是過渡期間縮短成4年然後每一年檢討回報或者是過渡期間把它縮短成5年 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2870.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2886.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那籌備署對於這一點我們的意見是有關於這些過渡時間這6年安排我們也參考了國外個人資料保護的獨立監察機關他們在進行整個規劃過程那這裡面日本是一個我們主要參考的一個對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2887.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2914.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那日本從原本也是跟我們一樣是分別監管的情況之下而且他還要納管公務機關所以他們當時候採取從所有這些分身到最後公務機關跟非公務機關統一納管也大概花了6年的時間逐步去做這樣的安排那所以我們考量到說各自會的監管能量今天需要持續的累積那若是把 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2916.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2927.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這個檢列分管的時間又檢的非常的緊密每年要去做檢討是時間縮得很短總時就縮得很短那對於未來再檢說非公務機關因為還要跟現有 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2930.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2936.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
還維持分管協作下的這些中央目的之間進行調試還有行業本身也要去做這樣的一個調試的時間確實會比較趕所以我們建議目前現在的一個檢討檢列頻率還是定為兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2946.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2972.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那總長就是不會超過6年那因為畢竟這是我們國家第一次有一個個人資料保護獨立監督的一個機關的這個機制所以我們期盼說能夠先在前期的這個規劃盡量還是凝聚共識把這個整個籌設的工作等到個人資料保護會籌設出來這一部分的安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2973.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3000.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我們就還是希望說依照現有的一個規劃來處理那最後還是感謝各委員對於國人隱私還有個人資料保護的一個重視我們本次各自法修正涉及到說從分散式的管理走向獨立機關的一個體制的一個重大的變革希望未來擔任各自法主管機關的獨立機關各自會能夠及早成立那在大院本屆會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3001.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3026.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
再來接續推動各司法全盤的現代化的修正工程那也懇請各委員黨團支持目前行政院的草案相關規劃 以上好 謝謝我們籌備處理事的主任那我們另外有經濟部司法院數位發展部國家通訊傳播委員會衛生福利部及交通部的書面報告我們請委員自行參閱並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3031.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3057.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
來 那現在先來確定議事錄請問各位議員議事錄有錯誤或疑漏沒有好 那我們議事錄確定本日議程討論事項合併詢答委員詢答前原例做以下宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員4分鐘必要使得延長2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記請登記第一位林戴華委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3062.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3069.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
先請籌備處主任那這個國安局速發部衛福部先準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3070.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3091.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好本期針對個資法當中特別是國人基因的部分來做討論我國精準醫療的檢驗檢體資訊外流看不見的國安風險因為個資外洩而正在發生個資被利用產業被犧牲健康被腐蝕 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3092.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3106.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
好本席針對幾個案例第一個新疆種族的滅絕的警示第二個中國自基因地區設備服務的風險第三我們中央各相關單位應作為而未作為的實際的狀態以及產業政策在行政單位缺少聯動最後本席有個具體建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3114.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3135.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
在具體建議當中剛才所點的幾個單位就要上來做回應第一個新疆種族滅絕的警示從2014年中共中央發起嚴厲的打擊暴力恐怖活動他建立起了新疆在教育營2017年營地規模化並迅速擴大隨之建立起達到高潮2019年聯合國人權理事會發生集體的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3140.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3159.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
2020年美国国会调查报告他说了中国政府于新疆地区针对少数民族以药物及疫苗进行新疆民族种族灭绝举绝育这样的药物跟医疗的疫苗是针对新疆民族的基因 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3161.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3171.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
特種他的這個民族的基因所做的藥物跟醫療來做種族的滅絕而我國國人的基因是融合了什麼原住民太平洋南島 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3172.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3198.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
闽南客家国共内战撤退后来到台湾以及新住民已经形成具有高度特色化的基因也就是说我说汉民族到底汉民族他到底汉民族就很广东北亚也是汉民族我觉得与其说汉民族比如说我们黄种人我们黄种人在中国东北亚东南亚 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3199.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3212.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
甚至上到歐美各國移民出去的所謂的黃種人其實在國人台灣國人的這樣的一個基因在我們這個國家都已經有高度特色化的基因族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3213.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3237.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
好那中國呢實施這個種族滅絕國際專家報告也講了習近平就是設計者這是2021年的報導那這個也講到這樣的新疆維吾爾族的人權是種族滅絕而且他是以這個基因來進行這個絕育跟病癮的相關的藥物跟疫苗來做的種族滅絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3238.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3259.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
好我們看在前幾年2023年也不過是前年現在2025年前年2023年的3月7號英國國會英國國會當中多位議員聯同世界維吾爾代表大會敦促英國政府對中國基因公司巨頭華大集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3261.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3277.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這個我會特別講就是等一下各單位你要去回應的啟動了國安評估中國在這個報導我左邊這一份報告是英國議員們他們提出來的這幾個重點我畫出來中國已將基因組學列為國家安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3278.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3298.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
关注的领域并将遗传数据和基因组作为优先产业目标作为Made in China 2025的计划之一在国家支持下华大基因等公司已成为基因主学领域的全球参与者习近平他说了称赞中国的生物资源 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3298.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3317.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
技術成就是最重要的武器這都有英文在上面再來第三個重點基因組織和基因技術的應用對國家安全經濟競爭力及數據隱私具有重大影響應被視為英國重要的國家基礎設施所以我們在指他們呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3318.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3328.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
英國國會的議員呼應他們的政府在這個採購法案通過國會的時候努力的將中國政府有關基因設備例如BGI這樣的一個品牌從政府的採購供應鏈中移除這等一下經濟部要回應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3335.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3357.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
經濟部因作為而沒作為我們還敦促了政府對於就是他們講英國政府對BGI進行全國的國家安全評估所以等下國安局要回應以確定他們從英國金融機構適應部門合約和英國各大學的研究合作是否過程國家安全挑戰英國國會已經就做這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3359.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3364.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
國安層級的呼籲來看中國製的基因定序設備跟服務風險來這個是中國人體基因檢測法令這是中國的法令他講到什麼基因定序儀器依靠內建工業級的電腦提供運算並具備通訊傳輸的主模資料上傳軟體下載 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3384.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3405.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
所有設備均是中國製造與生產也就是中國對他中國自己的檢測一律用中國製的好相關檢測的結果呢還要上傳專屬的雲端雲端機房我們現在嚴重性的是台灣現在等一下我會提出數據現在台灣一半以上都是中國製的檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3406.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3434.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
基因檢測也好或者相關的檢測也好一半以上好他們現在是雲端就在中國台灣就是備份這是現況中國人體基因的檢測法在這個法當中他還強制喔右邊這個法令我查出來第7條我們有他的第34條講到什麼程度他們中國官方啊可以含中央地方政府可以查閱複製查封扣押有關人類的基因 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3435.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3454.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
也就是我們現在一半以上中國製的這樣的基因檢測或相關檢測機器充斥在台灣我們現在國人所有的基因數據全部也透過這樣的機制都在中國機房在中國備份在台灣好再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3457.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3486.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
這個呢是一個私人的食藥署這個衛福部核准的私人的實驗室這樣的資料我都有提供給衛福部好這個資料當中中間這個這個MGI這是華大設備這個資料詳細的部分我可以再提供但在衛福部這邊我早就提供了我說這個是你們核定的私人的實驗室用的是次世代定序的這樣的一個技術項目是中國製的我也給他了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3487.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3493.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那你知道我們呢他怎麼做呢我們缺乏聯動什麼樣的聯動法那這個他這個衛福部在精準醫療必須的次世代分子的檢測上漏洞百出就本席情資的掌握中國這個分子檢驗設備是以非常低的金額他怎麼跟我們所有的實驗室公司力實驗公司力的醫院公司力的大學講說你都不用錢我們這裡設備都提供給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3516.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3532.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
免費提供給業者使用並提供醫療院所的服務業者在賺取健保支出的情況之下這個做基因檢測是政府有支持這個健保點數的將國人的基因資料資訊大量的洩漏給中國特定的團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3533.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3558.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我國從2017年起推動的 尤其我本身來自高雄南部智慧生醫產業聚落推動計畫 本期大力支持以及你們接續要推動的南部精準健康產業聚落推動計畫本能更是樂見其成 重點在我高雄路主希望導入的就是ICT 這個資通訊的技術發展精準健康產業好 這樣的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3559.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3564.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我們國發會主導的5加2 國發會跟你們有關係 這個是你們現在籌備處5加2的產業發展計畫就有包含生醫產業及精準醫療當中的癌醫治療機會使用到基因檢測設備 其對國人基因各自保護確實是產生了以下的問題 什麼問題呢 第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3582.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3591.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
相關跨部會在產業政策上並未做聯動 什麼意思 我告訴了衛福部 衛福部說他就附了一個公文公文就給了經濟部 告訴經濟部說你禁止進口喔經濟部有沒有作為 完全沒作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3597.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3615.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
好那如果說要下去測長了衛福部又說話了啊這個雲端的技術我們不太懂這個是屬於速發不管的所以相關跨部會光是在產業政策上並會做聯動協作所以很明顯的行政單位默示附踢皮球我現在講的是基因檢測這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3617.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3625.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
第二個扼殺國內生醫生技產業的發展我國人體基因缺乏完整的收集每一個實驗室可能幾千筆可能多著了不起幾萬筆所以我們沒有一個這個整個基因檢測如果它是一個國安議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3633.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3637.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我們台灣國人的基因要不要整體的數據的完整的收集在哪一個單位他是屬於公開還不公開那誰要來做完整 那要做什麼用因為有了數據規模我就可以導入預防醫學 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3649.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3662.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
也可以導入在後續的精準治療比如說哪些基因的人他特別會有糖尿病的症狀哪些基因人特別有腎臟病的症狀哪些基因的人都要可能會有失智症的症狀這都要長期基因規模才有可能對台灣2300萬人民以及未來的新生兒等等我們可以啟動早期預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3672.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3694.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
甚至後續的癌症基因的分子檢測我們更能夠導入精準治療所以這是二殺國內生技第三個健保精準醫療的醫療準確性就本席了解雖然我國已經要進入到精準醫療中國自分子檢驗設備相較於國際先進的設備不管是美國 日本 德國 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3696.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3711.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
他的準確度是較低的這是業界給我的訊息那你們可以去查更恍若我健保的資源是漸漸挹注解放軍基石的企業現在從事半數以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3712.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3714.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
檢測機器都在我們國內還用我們的健保資源去檢測本席這邊沒有苛責任何的單位我希望能夠喚起我們本國在國安單位跟相關部會的重視而且是要積極的處理經外洩國安形成危機民間的實驗室 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3732 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3753.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
大學實驗室大量使用中國的設備承接國內公私立大公私立大小醫療機構我講到公私立大小醫療機構什麼意思因為我們都是委外連公立的醫療也是委外給民間或公立的醫療的實驗室而且這不僅重大疾病甚至產檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3755.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3770.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我們的罕見疾病都要做到檢測啊他有些是基因檢測有些是一般的檢測取得國人巨量基因的資訊將協助中國可能對我國形成生物戰的威脅形成嚴重的國安漏洞好國安局請上來衛福部抒發部請上來經濟部請上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3774.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3785.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
基於國家安全及 啊 主席對不起 特別有請國安局衛福部 速發部 還有經濟部 謝謝主席好 來 林委員剛所點到的部會 請到備舉行台 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3788.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3803.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那對於籌備處目前你們只做法令的解釋但是未來如果你成為獨立機關的時候在相關我看你們這邊來的有法制事務組 查核規劃組 綜合企劃組我不曉得未來的執行單位你要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3804.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3831.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
但是至少現在還是可以做一些事情國安局在今天本席要求在國個資法中將國人基因視為特種個資我現在講的都是個資法現有的規定建起參照英國國會及各先進國家在保護他們國人基因的作為上評估提升為國安層級的議題並採取對應的作為這是第一個本席的要求第二個衛福部主責接同速發部三個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3832.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3852.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
完成查查依特管法特管法的管轄範圍業務你的特管法就已經包括私立的我確認三公私立醫院公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室的業者在病歷及檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全狀況並依法辦理特管法就已經有規定了如果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3858.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3879.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這個有外流到境外的部分你是可以停業的停止使用還甚至可以停業這特管法就規定了好 第三個經濟部一 衛福部的公函衛福部已經給你們公函了一個月內完成限制中國自次世代地序儀含四季及周邊設備進口作業的相關的法規的完備好 請回應來 國安局 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3889.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3893.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
因為本局是主管國家安全情報協會工作那對於有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3895.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3922.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
涉及到對於本國家的有相關的國安威脅的相關情緒我們都會有所展望並且提供給相關的機關做參考以上報告所以針對這個議題國人的這個特種個資的部分你們要不要帶回去研議我只請你們研議喔我還沒說你們那個我已經很客氣了這樣子剛才的爬梳您這樣子要不要帶回去研議一下正式的提案在你們的局本部來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3924.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3940.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
有關於委員的建議我們會進行相關的我會帶回去給因為是國安所以我也不要求你在這邊做相關什麼的回應我不會像衛福部或是外部這麼的明確我相信我還是尊重國安內部的機制你應該啟動的一個國家層級是否要這樣所以在這邊請你帶回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3946.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3965.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
好衛福部主責接同速發布這就是特管法規定的了三個月內完成這些公私立醫院公私立公大學實驗室公私立實驗室業者在病例檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全的狀態可以處理嗎衛福部接同速發布來衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3967.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3983.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
衛生部你們來的醫事師 這應該像醫事師來做你們因為有資訊處 雖然關節比較大但是主責上應該是醫事師檢任記證社會保險師林科長 是科長來嘛醫事師回應一下啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3986.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4013.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那針對於人體資料庫我們是這些相關的傳輸我們是有這個人體這個生物資料庫的這個管理條例那我們相關的輸出都會依條例他要報我們申請核准才可以去做輸出這個剪輯這個我從去年開始我就關心了我不是現在才關心只是你們毫無動作我現在是依客管法請你們三個月完成你現在公立的醫院有處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4015.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4035.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
公立的實驗室有沒有處理我不曉得所以我說公私立本身你特管法就包括私立的醫療院所也有包括私立的大學的實驗室私立的實驗室本身特管法就要求了是你不作為喔所以我三個月內要求你查處而且我說你接同訴發布你就沒有意見了可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4038.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4058.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
好 謝委員我們會盡快去處理好 謝謝 好 經濟部一個月內完成 限制中國製 你總是對現有的狀況他們去做查你對新的你不能再進啊你的相關的這個限制的中國製製的這個次世代地區你的進口作業相關的法規一個月完成 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4059.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4083.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
關於委員的要求我們會帶回去給貿易署做相關的評估我隨便完備我可以接受你不用到公告但是你的完備的所有的文字要做公告前的文字一個月內完成可以嗎我們會帶回去好謝謝以上好謝謝戴華委員我們下一位請邱益穎委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4095.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4108.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
謝謝主席 這個我請一下李主任好 請主任 李主任委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4109.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4133.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
主任早主任我想我們今天在討論這個個資法那我們曾經在2023年的5月的時候當時是本席在當召委我們就通過了這個要增加這個個資保護委員會的這樣的一個單位那所以您今天是以這個籌備處主任的身份來我還是想要再更深 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4134.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4156.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
部的請教到底這個個資保護委員會你們是只是形式上有這樣的一個組織呢還是能夠實體上去做一些進行我們大概舉了幾個兩個例子啦這個也讓您看一下這個是2023年1月在華航有一些會員資料外洩的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4157.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4184.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那會員資料外洩呢華航證實這個他並沒有證實這個是從他的資料庫來但是我們可以看得出來其實像這些大型公司會員資料外洩很顯然他們在對於個資保護加密的這個整體的防治工作並沒有做得特別好那又也沒有罰則也沒有通報採取的任何的機關所以這件事情可能也就這樣子不了了之 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4185.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4206.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
第二個是有很多的學校的校務系統透過這樣的一個業者資訊的業者被駭客入侵所以有大量的學生的個資外洩那這個個資外洩的程度基本上因為在法令也不完備之下而且學校的校務系統缺乏資安的集合 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4207.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4223.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以也是不了了之那您剛剛的幾個報告裡面我其實想要進一步的請教就是說在我們修正草案第12條裡頭有說符合一定通報範圍請問什麼叫做一定通報範圍它的範圍涵蓋有多廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4226.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4248.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
第二所謂的這一些資訊長我們現在要求各部會各單位都必須要設立資訊長那這些資訊長的設立現在有哪一些公務機關已經設立了這些資訊長依照現行的法令規定他是兼任那如果資訊長的這個職務是兼任的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4249.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4262.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
他到底對於資安對於個資的保護能夠執行到什麼樣的一個程度來主任我請就這幾個問題先回答好謝謝委員指教就是先回答剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4263.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4282.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
委員所提到說這個未來獨立這個機關它是一個形式的還是實質的那我們現在當然是朝向它是實質的那它的監管的一個權限在於我們目前現在所剛剛舉的這兩個例子然後扣除掉剛剛我們已經有報告說 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4283.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4300.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我們會設計一個六年的一個回收的那個權限回收機制那理論上假設我說以後全部都回收的情況下這些實質的監管是當然是沒問題那在還在分管的時候我們還是會跟現有的中央目的實驗室去做一個協作 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4300.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4317.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那委員剛才請教我們說有關於第12條這邊所謂的一定通報的那個範圍那本質上通報的義務是未來這個新法的要求是一定都要有所有的這些所有東西都要通報而且是直接通報到我們這邊來 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4318.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4340.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
不分大小一律都是要通報到你們這裡那你們的工作量呢可以涵蓋這麼多的範圍嗎不論大小因為你把調寫的是一定的範圍嘛一定通報範圍但是你現在講不論大小都要報到你們這裡來就是在我們所歸之的那個範疇跟範圍當然這個在執法的時候還在做一次討論說所以你們的執法還在作業當中執法還沒有徵定完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4344.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4371.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
母法事先規定說在這個一定範圍的話當然就是適用對象全部都要通報到個人資料保護委員會是好我在想啊這個因為你們有6年的所謂的這個過渡期當然你還是要必須要很多的資訊收集是公務單位的這個資訊長的設立這件事情您剛還沒有回答我這些資訊長的設立包括他的定義跟人員的編列每一個公家機關裡頭會 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4373.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4385.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
設立一個資訊長他底下會有多少人員的編制這個也會是在你們的執法訂定的範圍之內嗎是沒有錯那現在各機關裡頭在你的執法還沒有明訂出來你的執法什麼時候可以訂出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4386.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4405.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
因為這個法假如通過的話後面會有一個行政院指定實行日期所以會有一個準備期你可以預估一下大概多久嗎我覺得假設以一般還要包含組織去籌測應該至少還有一個半年的時間吧還要再多半年的時間嗎那這半年內的這個空窗期各自如何保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4407.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4421.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
你在整個這個範疇之內會不會有人說那我就等資訊長這個所謂的個資保護長出來以後我們再來處理等那個單位設立以後我們再來處理很多東西會不會有一個空窗的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4422.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4437.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
是會不會跟委員報告不會有空窗因為現行的規定是像剛剛說公務機關你就用現行的法條現行的規定去做是是是可以無縫接軌是沒有錯您可以保證可以是無縫接軌現在對於非公務機關這邊已經有成立一個協調聯繫會議去加強監管現有的非公務機關我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4443.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4472.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
公務跟非公務機關其實這個機關團體非常的多未來的整個個資保護委員會看起來業務應該也會相當的繁雜所以在執法的訂定上如果時程上可以加快的話我期待其實也應該要加快另外要跟您再請教一個比較專業的現在大家一直在講AI AI我們講的個資保護其實在生成式AI |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4473.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4493.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
風行之後很多的跨境資料的這個風險其實變成會變成是各自保護委員會或者是各自監管很重要的一個步驟現在我們我們一直在懷疑包括很多的這一些APP很多的社群媒體social media他們裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4495.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4516.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
存取我們的這些資料我們要我們要當到很多的APP啦或者是要使用都必須要輸入一些個人的資料但是這個資料有訊息來源是說他是回傳跨境回傳到某一些地方因為他的伺服器他的server是在境外的某些地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4517.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4539.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那這個變成我們管不到那未來在這樣的一個個資監管我想深層式的AI這AI時代下的個資監管變成是很重要的一環了我不曉得在個資保護委員會或者是在籌備處你們針對這個部分有沒有什麼比較具體的想法跟具體未來可能可以在法令上推動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4541.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4564.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
的這一些方針、政策,有沒有?這個就會涉及到我們剛剛在說第二階段要全面修正的各執法的內容裡面就會包含這一點那你這個還要再等第二階段我覺得這個整個AI的這個跨境資料的傳輸其實它已經是到一個高風險的階段啦你的二階段不知道還要再等多久搞不好這一屆還不一定能夠完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4566.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4591.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這一屆已經會讓他完成你確定這一屆能夠讓他完成但你可不可以透露一下在這個生成式AI盛行的時代這一些跨境的個資傳輸或者是說有沒有可能透過我們政府跟這一些社群媒體的溝通讓這一些個資能夠留在台灣接受台灣的這個個資的保護有沒有這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4595.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4619.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
有沒有這樣的想法跟這樣的作為因為這個問題當然現行我們分管的時候其實也是會面臨到那有關於這類所謂的社群平台裡面或許有些選擇會在中央目的事業主管機關的角色之下來做那剛剛我當然是說未來要另外處理一個議題就是這個管轄權要如何把它擴大 包含說要指定你落地 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4620.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4634.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
確實現在是沒有規定落地我只是說這種比較明確的機制在下一階段當然最好像炸方條例所以這個會變成你們下一階段一個很重要的議題對 就是指定你業者落地然後這樣子才有一個對話機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4636.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4661.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
但是現行其實假如說中央目的世界主管機關在他自己所能夠掌握的這些是 所謂的跨平台業者裡面他當然我們還是期許說現有的這樣的一個議題中央目的世界大家要注意因為時間已經到了我不耽誤大家時間但我還是要建議一下這個部分其實應該要列為你們下一個階段很重要的各自保護的重點這個是要特別提醒的地方感謝 感謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4665.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4691.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
好 謝謝邱益穎委員那我們下一位請陳廷飛委員發言謝謝主席我們先請這個書發部法治處還有我們的數位產業署還有知通安全署 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4692.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4720.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
好 請速發部法治處數位安全署跟直通安全署我們今天剛好在談法我想請教我們三位副處長還有副組長我想請教一下現在馬上不論是在這個所謂的國際情勢或是國內情勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4722.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4745.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
基本上馬上在很多的狀態會慢慢浮現尤其又選舉要到了我想請教一下對於目前如果有假帳號假帳號假帳號反串攻擊然後用所謂的一條龍的方式再去做散播請問我們現在有法可管嗎有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4751.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4778.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們如果依照數位部有嗎報告委員如果依照委員剛剛所說在打詐的部分的話我們目前打詐條例還是針對詐欺妨害的狀況不是打詐不是打詐不是打詐就是說一般現在如果在所有的狀況他是用假帳號反串攻擊我們現在有法可管嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4779.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4808.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
目前我們還是透過跟業者的合作的部分來處理這方面的事情那假帳號反串等已經跟業者合作然後呢業者再傳給所有相關調查完之後回來這所有的一條龍的局勢就已經不知道跑到哪裡去了所以表示我們現在假帳號反串攻擊然後再做散播這是無法可管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4809.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4837.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
是不是我們目前還是要依照個案的狀況來判斷就是這樣的行為有沒有符合其他法令上的那如果2018那時候非常嚴重的內容農場再現當時候就是莫名其妙這個所有的中共的網軍全部做內容農場的生產然後一條龍一條鞭整個往外擴 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4839.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4849.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
當時候的狀況是如此所以那時候還沒有書發布那現在有了之後還是無法可管嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4851.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4877.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
還是無法可管嗎跟委員報告這個部分在當時行政院的督導之下其實各部會都有成立各部會一起成立了一個就是針對訊息的一個市詐跟房詐跟賭詐一個相關的一個綱領那還是會依照這個部分然後大家再去做一個精進的措施怎麼精進的措施現在所有的手法是越來越厲害他用假帳號反串 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4878.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4903.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
然後深入到每一個粉絲專頁裡面比之前2018的內容農場更厲害囉結果如果我剛問書發布我們這幾位可能比較有相關的表示現在也是一樣沒有任何的方式是不是有嗎有嗎 現在有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4910.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4927.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我們目前這個部分針對訊息的部分我們還是從訊息的本身內容來判斷是不是事先是假之後我們才會去做相關的訊息是不是有假訊息這個部分還是仍然在個案我們會先去做判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4928.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4954.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
你要怎麼判斷是不是假訊息你要怎麼判斷有窗口嗎我們其實是依照行政院當時訂的綱領那各部會根據他各自的領域去針對這個訊息判斷是否為假那你怎麼判斷是否為假可能要看具體的內容的部分涉及哪一個部會的權責那我們書發布就是會跟其他的平台業者採取合作的管道可是當時候2018的內容農場 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4957.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4982.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
都是針對個人都是針對政府的政策然後去污蔑 去扭曲那你怎麼判斷這個何以為真這個部分其實我們仍然還是跟各部會就是在行政院杜老師做一個合作措施所以你還是一樣2018到現在 別人一直在精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4984.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5012.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
科技網路一直在經濟假訊息一直在經濟但是呢我們政府沒有經濟你們所回答的跟2018有什麼不同2018的內容農場那時候的嚴重程度應該你們還記憶猶新吧是不是可是現在是越來越變本加厲可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5013.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5030.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
你們束手無策啊還是以當時候的綱領啊然後辨別是否為真啊等你辨別出來你知道嗎現在的LINE現在的粉絲專頁都已經傳過好幾波連好幾波了2018當時候LINE還沒有這麼樣的發展的這麼樣的快速2018還沒有現在LINE |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5042.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5067.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
無遠弗屆在第一時間傳出去你怎麼收回來沒辦法收了可是人民已經很直接看到這些訊息錯誤訊息的傳遞抒發部如果還是這樣的一個態度那我們請問成立抒發部有什麼用有什麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5069.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5087.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
報委員這個部分如果在技術部分我們有經濟我們也會跟資安院有共通的合作措施那這個部分可能就是我們會持續根據外面就是外在環境然後做持續上技術的精進那另外在實質內容的判斷仍然還是要回到各部會的一個權責部處長今天在整個過程到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5092.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5121.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
整個科技的一個展現跟它不一樣的一個轉變速度是比我們政府還快我們頭腦還沒到那裡人家早就已經作為一條龍一條鞭然後從假帳號反串攻擊甚至給假訊息等你要去辨別早在賴的群組當中已經不知傳多少波出去了你要擋要怎麼擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5122.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5139.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
然後從我們的臉書、粉絲帳號也是一樣不知道你要多久啦我今天正式要求在這部分的一個假帳號的反傳跟廣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5143.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5159.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
錯誤訊息的傳遞你們何時要給我們一個比較確切的處理方式窗口在哪裡否則你說要查我們連窗口都不知道在哪裡我們要怎麼查怎麼給資料沒辦法給資料啊副處長多久多久要給我們一個資料一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5170.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5193.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
報告委員 這部分可能涉及跨部份可不可以給我們比較長一點的時間兩個月 三個月 沒關係你要多長有總比沒有好啦謝謝委員 這個部分可不可以給我們大概三個月的時間好 三個月我們研議一下這樣好 三個月再跟委員報告好 三個月麻煩 這太重要了 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5194.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5214.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
三個月 2018內容農場我們發現已經在 正在猖狂當中結果你們還是這樣的態度好 三個月 請你把假帳號的反串 假訊息的傳遞這個部分我們要怎麼遏止 要怎麼去做單一窗口的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5214.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5226.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
你說各部會各部會散播在各部會無法可管單一窗口要怎麼處理三個月來我們請那個呃理事的主任來請李主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5236.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5261.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
委員長 主任我想在整個個人資料保護委員會的籌備處跟我們個人資料保護委員會這當中到底我們在打炸綱領當中要扮演什麼角色到底如果依照你講的說你們也希望你們是可以有關鍵性積極性的可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5262.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5278.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我們看所有的資料你們現在只有在一個個資法的法律解釋跟提供各單位的個資事件的諮詢就只有這個樣子這是很被動非常被動極度被動我們個資法它是一個防詐的源頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5285.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5300.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
如果你們這麼被動我們怎麼強化保護去避免我們各自的外洩然後你要怎麼去監督各部會去作為我們各自的管理跟防範外洩很重要的一個關鍵你要怎麼變成這個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5301.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5326.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
是 跟委員報告就是目前我們規劃的版本裡面本身我們這邊會形成一個很重要的個資保護政策的一個推進會議的這個架構那原則上就是由我們來做主導那相關中央地方的這個機關會納入在我們這個平台我們以這樣一個平台在為了規劃好啊 納入這個平台之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5327.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5348.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那你只是給他們諮詢還是說你有強化性可以要求各單位去作為防詐的源頭去保護我們各自不要外洩然後去要求我們可以監督各個機關可以去在打詐的部分去做一個保護人民的一個堅決立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5350.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5372.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
對跟委員報告未來這一個政策推進的一個會議他不是一個諮詢他會以我們為主因為在修法裡面第一條之二的第一項就已經強烈的規定了一個很重要原則所有的中央地方各級機關都有義務要來協助整個個人資料保護的一個信賴環境的一個建置 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5372.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5381.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
話大家都會講是是是原則大家都會定是執行呢是我們未來在這裡面你認為你有辦法嗎各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5384.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5403.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
你有辦法去要求各部會去做到你們的到位打詐的一個關鍵嗎畢竟未來它是一個獨立機關本身在各自法裡面所賦予給職權以及中央地方各級機關要配合的義務還是會嶄明在法律裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5404.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5424.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以這一點上面我們以這樣的一個未來的政策推進的一個會議他不會淪落只是一個被動的諮詢的角色主任我要問的就是這一點今天我們在法過了之後我們到底可以給予你們什麼樣的武器你沒有武器 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5428.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5456.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
你要怎麼動誰要聽你的如果各部位都不聽你的你要怎麼去保護所有的人民個資現在是尚未每一樣東西只要跟個資牽扯到它是非常嚴重的事情更何況現在在打詐的一個關鍵時間為什麼一直在催促你知道這個保護法我們已經催促多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5458.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5483.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
好不容易今天看到開始審了所以我們期望這個各自保護法給你們之後你們是有武器的是而不是只是一個被諮詢的單位不會不會不會喔你保證喔你要保證喔你們還要訂一個執法就是有關政策推進會議他的執法你們還要去規範如何來運作剛剛所說的這樣一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5483.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5505.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
今天我們這樣的質詢就是希望你要給自己非常重要的一個壓力在這個執法當中你要定到什麼樣的程度才能給你有任何保護人民各自的立場這才是重要我們把委員這個意思會在定這個執法的時候也一定會把再麻煩是拜託謝謝好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5510.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5530 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
好謝謝陳廷飛委員那下一位請鄭正前委員發言謝謝主席我想請一下各自保護委員會籌備處的李士德主任來請李主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5536.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5558.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
莊委長早莊委長早我在想說因為憲法法庭在111年憲判當中的時候有特別一道台灣健保資料庫其實的運用有部分違憲的事情而且要求三年內要改善那我想說我想這次我們行政院這次提出了一個院版的個資法修法應該跟這有很密切的關係應該是這樣子吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5562.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5576.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
你可以用跟委員報告就是當時候一年的宪判十三次他有主文二跟主文三四那三跟四目前現在就是由衛福部正在炒你一個很重要的衛福專訪那 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5577.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5594.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
二的這一塊它當然是獨立進行啦但是等到個人治療保護人員會未來成立之後這個健保的一個未來這個衛生福利專法它的運作過程因為畢竟它也是一個公務機關它在應照對法規的個人治療保護人員還是要去監督它對於這一個專法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5596.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5616.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
所以我在想說我們這次修法當中的時候因為當時當時憲判當中提到兩個第一個是我們要成立一個獨立的監督機制因為不夠所以要有一個獨立監督機制另外就是我們對於各自個人退出權的這個部分對不對所以我在想說所以各自會目前的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5617.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5629.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
正在積極籌備當中那我知道說組織法也送到執法法治委員會我們有沒有預計大概什麼時候這個各自會能夠順利成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5630.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5656.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
這邊有沒有具體抓一個時間點我們當然是也期盼在這個會期能夠審議通過但是因為審議通過之後未來還有一段的時間通過之後的這個法還要再去執行所以你希望這個會期這個法通過之後就可以開始成立嘛就開始去規劃那因為行政院會再去指定修正過後的個資法的實行時間我們現在這個時間把它說越短越好 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5656.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5682.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
OK 理解那我在想說因為在那個憲判當中的時候也特別提到了就是退出權的問題那健保署這邊很清楚的提到說相關的一個健保署的退出權大概八月份可以實施嘛對不對可以實施具體時間點是這樣的是不是是不是要衛福部要先做說明因為這是他們專法裡面規劃的OK |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5686.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5687.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
透過麥克風講好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5698.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5720.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
報導委員 依照我們憲法判決第4項的說法就是不管我們專法有沒有通過然後退出權民眾都可以向健保署去申請那這一塊的部分我們健保署已經有在做相關的規劃那未來不管我的健保資料管理條例能不能在這個會期通過 健保署都會對外宣布 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5721.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5750.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
有關健保是要申請退出的機制我簡單講你剛剛提到說不管專訪有沒有過其實民眾都可以去要求退出權我想特別請教一下李主任您繼續在這位副部這邊因為其實跟我們有相關的個資的部分包括國健署的癌症登記包括我們社會安全網的個資包括我們醫護集法統計法精神衛生法等等很多的部分這個部分的時候我們民眾是不是一樣有退出權的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5751.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5765.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
可以使用李主任嘿跟委員報告目前111年13號的判決裡面他的退出權的這個其實現在是先苛責說衛福專法就是健保資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5766.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5787.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
因為剛剛衛福部這邊有提到說不管專法有沒有過他們現在民眾都可以去要求退出權那按照這樣子的一個原則當中的時候只要像其他的部會牽涉到各自的部分我們民眾是不是也能夠這樣去行使各退出權好 因為宣判的那個退出權現在是先鎖定是一個資料庫所以沒有說叫各自法要去訂一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5787.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5806.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那這個部分我們希望說那個就是各自會這邊的時候我其實針對這部分趕快去因為你剛剛在回答其他委員我有聽到一個點就是說你希望按照兩階段修法其實這兩階段修法其實坦白說我有特別注意到其實原本我們召委他原本排的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5807.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5827.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
議程的時候本來是院版加上11個委員的版本結果現在後來只剩下院版加3個委員的版本那顯然的時候我想應該是你這邊特別去拜託把一些相關的跟這一次行政院院版沒有關係的法案都先不排列是這樣子的一個情況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5828.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5850.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
跟委員報告 當然排案是召委的權利啦但是以目前現在的一個規劃的方式 反而我們就是兩階段那還有其他委員的一些提案 我們當然是希望說我們目前第二階段的 我們還在持續在籌備所在所研議那也沒有說要等到說個人資料保安會成立之後 他才開始去接手 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5851.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5866.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我們希望他趕快成立然後下一階段這邊來接手能夠無縫接口因為我針對這個北方樹原本這是一個委員當中的版本當中我看到了就是家福中心他最近有一個民調出來的時候就是台灣就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5869.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5886.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
接觸網路的年紀越來越小然後比例越來越高然後各自曝光的風險其實也越來越高針對這樣的情況的時候所以我發現數位足跡很重要通信紀錄很重要可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5887.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5902.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
在其他有很多的委員本來都提到了相關的部分可是在這一次修法當中都沒有提我在想可能就是你剛剛提到說想要二階段修法的時候所以這個部分可能都沒有排到今天的一個修法版本當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5903.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5923.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
對 因為跟委員報告我們是期盼因為其實未來真正要對話是長射機關獨立機關 而不是籌備處我知道各個委員都期盼最後各支法還是要做很多大的修正所以我們現在的目標是當然趕快先把這個機關籌設必要配套各支法這個第一階段先通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5924.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5953.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
然後二階段的這個修法內容所以你的意思是說你的責任就是就把這個這個委員會籌設起來之後修法的部分就是以後人家的事情是這個意思嗎我們現在籌備處在還沒有也同時在做嘛對不對所以我認為其實很多委員的版本當中都有提到了一個數位組織跟通訊記錄這相關的問題我覺得是非常重要的包括徐真委員也特別提到沒有錯徐真委員也提到黃靖遠他們都提到這部分所以我們也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5954.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5977.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
就是現在能夠做的就馬上去做不要等到推到第二階段才不會這樣子嘛第二階段的工作我們現在已經在開始進行那我另外要特別提到因為經濟部不斷的在推AI這部分那確實也非常的蓬勃那AI這邊可能會牽涉到的一些個資的一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5980.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6007.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們這邊要怎麼處理打算要在什麼時候的時候能夠把這個部分把它處理好好 當然這邊有一個重要的所謂的人工智慧基本法也同時正在進行人工智慧基本法裡面很重要就是個資保護是現在在規劃的一個方向有關於涉及到人工智慧的個資保護是要由未來的這個個人資料保護委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6009.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6026.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那您剛有提到我剛聽到你在回答另外一個委員提到說這個部分如果牽涉到公司他如果沒有在台灣落地的時候我們要怎麼處理因為你剛有特別提到公司有沒有落地在台灣很關鍵對於我們各自的保障能不能真正的保障到那我們這個部分我們要怎麼去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6027.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6047.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
對 當然就是下一階段在處理我們剛才說管轄權的部分要把它明確出來那指定落地現在已經有一個不錯的經驗在那個炸打的這個條例裡面它是採用指定你落地的方法那我們覺得這是一個很好的一個立法的法治經驗我們在剛剛所說的二階段這部分我們會把它參酌進來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6048.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6074.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
OK那我在想說二階段這邊希望該保障各自的部分我們趕快做能夠做就做不要把很多的事情都推到了二階段之後我覺得這樣其實是不適合的我們繼續希望就是說我們繼續做做到說他成立之後把我們這個任務型機關他會裁撤相關的業務會移撥到那邊在這之前我們能做的還是要繼續進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6075.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6093.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
最後我要特別提到因為這次院滿當中的時候它對於非公務機關的對個資保障如果沒有落實的時候會罰則而且範圍擴大可是對於公務機關的部分一樣沒有任何的罰則那這個部分我們要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6094.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6109.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
跟委員報告就是我們現在的規定當還是內部的這個懲戒懲處這個機制我們還是有辦法補進來那公務機關的一個處方也參照我們最近在看外國的立法尤其是英國他們就是經驗之下他們發覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6111.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6129.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
不是說處罰公務機關直接就可以產生很多的一個廣泛的效應因為公務機關就這樣你處罰他他還是會去進行徵送所以變成耗費很多時間在進行徵送所以英國最近他們也在考量說這個處罰公務機關這件事情到底他的實際性有到多高 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6130.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6147.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這部分還是得要去處理因為當我們這次修法的時候針對非公務機關的處罰是提高的狀態大幅提高狀態然後我們對於之前2300萬筆護證資料外洩的事情到現在感覺也都沒有任何的一個懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6148.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6170.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那感覺好像就是公務機關如果說洩漏個資的時候好像也都無所謂那我覺得這樣其實是有問題的那我們也希望主任在這個部分的時候當我們要成立個資會的時候這個機制我們現在已經把它放進來在上次你也知道委員有就教我們所以我們就把委員的這個希望說對於人員的懲戒懲處要放進來所以我們這次修法有把它先放進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6171.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6192.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
OK好那這個部分的時候我們也希望能夠好好去落實然後對於我們個資的部分不只是只要求非公務機關我們公務機關也能夠給就是台灣的個資做最好的一個保障好不好謝謝委員支持好謝謝好謝謝鄭正前委員那下一位請鄭天才委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6206.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6222.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
好主席各位有請主任來請李主任好主任好今天在場的都是公務員公務員這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6226.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6255.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
個人資料保護法這個次上法務部以前是法務部嘛法務部84年8月就公布施行這麼長時間確實也需要去做修正也修正過112年上一次修正是112年5月31號做了這樣的一個修正修正當然就條文不多很重要的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6256.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6283.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
有一些條文像這個48條修正之後就公佈日施行那這個第一條之一很重要的第一條之一當初修正主要的目的應該就是第一條之一但是施行日期由行政院定制也就是這個個人資料保護法第一條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6284.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6306.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
第一項本法之主管機關為個人資料保護委員會也就是要把這個法本來是法務部主管的要移到成立一個新的機關因為當初就是考量到非常非常多個資的問題那我一直很納悶102 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6312.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6329.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
112年5月31號公布施行然後由行政院認定施行日期對於這個第一條之一為什麼會這麼久了112年113、114兩年了兩年多了請問一下為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6336.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6354.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
對跟委員報告中間因為還有一個這邊條文看不到就是這裡面一個很重要一個大的變革是我們國家要成立一個新的獨立機關這以前從來沒有過然後是瞬間直接是又獨立又專管那個變化真的是很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6356.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6380.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
是因為憲法判決的關係憲法判決是一個回應本來行政院已經自己在110年就有一個規劃人權行動方案裡面就已經在思考說是不是要去成立比憲法判決更早就是要去成立一個我們自己國家的個人資料保護隱私的一個獨立專責機關所以後來這裡面因為實事求是還是要有一個籌備處 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6382.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6411.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
所以行政院在112年的12月5號先成立一個籌備處是要把這個組織先籌設出來所以這中間還有一個在條文裡面看不到的就是要籌設一個機關所成立的這個籌備處就是我們現在正在做的工作我知道這個因為這個籌備處畢竟人力有限是錢則有限它主要不是要執法它是要把機關伸出所以真的是有限對對所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6412.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6432.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
你自己去查從過去到現在籌備處你從什麼時候開始成立的籌備處112年的12月5號對嘛恐怕是最久的籌備處也不會啦以往都沒有那麼久啦有些籌備處十幾年也有但是我們這個有時間性的重點是在於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6437.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6446.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這個個資法嚴重才會去修正嘛就大家都有這個方式而事實上台灣成為一個詐騙國家詐騙非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6453.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6480.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
去年五百多億去年被詐騙的五百多億其中很大的因素就是個資啦其中很大的因素就是個資我們的人民常常就接到電話就被騙了對不對個資就是個資嘛對不對所以這個部分連博士教授都被騙了 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6481.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6507.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
對不對就是個資嘛所以這個部分是很嚴重的所以我才會說怎麼會112年修法要成立個資保護委員會到現在不成立所以當然你很難去回應啦因為你這個不是行政院院長不是行政院秘書長我們問你也是很難這個我們腳步都一直在加快沒有停歇 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6509.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6533.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
這個我是認為成立了之後才能夠有人力事實上如果我們這個從公務體系來看為了跟這個個資有關的其實國家通信傳播委員會然後也成立了速發部速發部像這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6535.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6562.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我們一個機關一個機關其實都成立了很多啦但是我們的個資所影響的除了個資所影響的之外所謂的詐騙的一個金額逐年的逐年的提高去年就五百多萬五百多億所以這個部分是一個當然不是全部是個資的問題但是個資是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6563.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6590.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
很重要的因素常常很多電話就接到電話所以這個部分是一個需要去加強的部分所以從今天的報告裡面也提到相關的這些需要去積極加強的部分然後未來這個相關的重大的面向也都提到了所以我建議你回去跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6591.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6614.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
行政院院長說趕快到這個委員會那個那個組織法要去協調是沒問題司法法治委會趕快安排好不好好共同努力好謝謝委員執教好謝謝鄭天才委員那我們下一位請張祺凱委員發言那張祺凱委員發言後我們休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6635.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6647.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
來 請跟時間賽跑的主任 來你是德里主任嗎請李主任謝謝委員在加冕主任 你這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6649.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6676.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
雖然籌備那麼久啦 不過你這個委員會非常非常重要是 沒錯對國家社會有很大貢獻因為第一個 台灣第一次有這個那麼重要的人權關懷的這樣一個因為現在我們說個資洩漏是很嚴重的連國防部 個資都可以洩漏內政部啦 什麼一堆衛福部全部都有 華航你看連賴清德賴總統的個資也都外漏過郭台銘啊什麼林志玲啊所以今天那個 我們今天巡打就很重要啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6677.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6701.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我是看你們在3月份提出來這個3月27號的行政院這個版本做了一部分的修正我發現有些地方我們要進一步來討論好 謝謝委員執教你在12月 去年12月20號有做一個預告吧我發現你後來3.27提出來的時候把它刪掉了保存相關的紀錄 本來說預告說要保存三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6702.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6720.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
對不對?對,沒有刪掉,我們是會在執法裡面再去訂,相關保存的期間。執法啊?對。那就訂在這麼重要,為什麼衛界要拉低呢?因為不是,在預告期間裡面,各界的意見都不同,有人要拉長,有人說要拉短。 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6720.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6741.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那我們會覺得說這部分可能還需要濃縮共識所以我們是先在模仿裡面先去提到在授權指板說期限這個一定會一定會保存是需要的還是要認為要拉長要多久要縮短還要討論你要盡快把它開完會把它定下來現在它的重點是應該有一個法律位階的 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6743.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6760.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
重視 執法基本上就是它是具體授權 所以它是相當有法律的效力一個這樣好不好 我們說兩個處理一個就是要加速去 你說有不一樣意見嘛要趕快去審核啦 不能丟在那裡第二個再想一想 是不是位階還是要拉回來放在 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6761.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6788.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
法律比較好 你再想一下啦當然我沒有完全反對執法可是老實講 這個是很重要的一件事情了解 沒錯 沒錯 那個重要就用法律來定啊就不要到執法去 這疊雷那第二個我發現你把它刪掉一個比較這個通用 那個你看一下中間那個 預告板裡面有提到說有前項情形且對當事人權利有重大危害之餘者 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6789.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6793.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
重大危害之餘的 這個很重要啊你為什麼後來也刪掉了 又放到 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6796.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6817.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
跟委員報告就是在預告時間當然也有給一個意見尤其是人權團裡面是認為說是不是只限於一個說這個門檻好像是說還要去判斷重大危害才能去做這個通知跟通告他覺得這樣子好像已經把那個範圍縮得太小了但是那個門檻要怎麼樣去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6820.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6847.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
所以我們是覺得說 假設大家覺得這個共識度加這個門檻是不是加太高了所以我們就暫時好原則上這個門檻的問題先到執法裡面先來先不要現在在母法的時候就因為大家的所以要趕快嘛對對對沒有錯跟剛剛的問題一樣所以不能一直拖這是一次第二個這個解決方案更重要了因為你這樣就會造成一個你都用執法來定那那個通報範圍就會變得很空洞外界就會關心不知道怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6847.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6860.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
不會空洞那時候就是一個具體要去討論說到目前為止我為什麼問你說你把重大危害這個拿掉或拿到執法那邊去像這個本來就很明確對不對是那你今天能不能比較明確跟我講你這個範圍會涵蓋哪一些好 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6863.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6878.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我們目前的規劃當事人的通知的這部分原則上我們現在先不放門檻了對當事人通知甚至我們把那個本來現行的規定說要查明後那一直都有人說要查多久啊這個當然要刪掉現前條文這個太晚了這個不符合跟實際賽跑沒錯沒錯要刪掉我們就是這個修法是對的啦我現在是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6885.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6914.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
沒有一個是當然要及時嘛對不對是是是可是更重要現在人民還在看你這個範圍啦你今天我剛剛講的那個就是個範圍嘛對不對沒錯沒錯對不對重大危害嘛那你把它拿掉那我現在就要問你你現在初步你訂的有哪些範圍是比較明確的好假如說我們現在分兩個啦一個是通知主管機關一個是通知當事人那那是通知我說範圍你要界定的所謂通範圍是怎麼樣現在範圍我們是只有我們現在範圍是只有先放在 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6916.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6934.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
通報主管機關的這部分哪些事情要通報嘛 對不對所以都要有重大危害這一點嘛 我也說你把它放到執法去除了這個之外還有哪些是你本來要定的事項然後第二個才是你講的要通報到機關或者是非公務機關怎麼通報嘛OK 我請我們同仁先做補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6934.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6951.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
是委員因為我們當時在修法的時候其實有參考這個日韓的立法例那日韓他們其實在他們的個資法母法其實對於這個通報的範圍他們也是授權另外去訂他們的命令用命令的方式來去明確化他那個通報的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6952.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6976.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
可能就是例如像他可能是說譬如說他的這個資料是涉及到可能1000名以上的當事人的個資或是說他是涉及到敏感的資料或是說他可能是因為駭客違法犯法所去竊取的這種資料的這種情況他才會說在列為他們這個命令裡面所要通報的範圍這是日韓對就是像這樣的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6977.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7000.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
人家國外可以跟國外的事可以做一部分的參考嘛沒錯影響有多大對不對或者民不民感嘛對不對金額什麼那些可以所以到時候這個範圍會非常的明確就對了沒錯那包括剛剛講的被刪掉可能要放回去好不好OK我們會例如那你剛剛講到一個時間點問題然後我給你談一個跟時間很有關的你最近有注意嗎最近那個LINE啊帳號被盜用那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7002.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7020.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
最近增加了80%所以連賴都在官方上面他都趕快公告了然後社會發展部也去找他趕快去跟時間賽跑結果現在花蓮啊你說賴配到用了真正能夠去要回來主任你知道要多久嗎你知道嗎 要再久嗎你要了解一下一方面這個跟你的業務有關一方面這牽扯到每個人的利益嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7030.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7051.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那麼多人那個賬號被以前一週只能去要100筆回來了那些社會發展部趕快去催催催催催到現在啊說可能可以到250可是要到7月份才到400我告訴你結果啊被盜用的人太多了如果用400去省你知道嗎要多久你知道嗎多久才能夠回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7053.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7077.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
兩個半月會太久嗎有點久啦不是有點久 非常非常 太久了嘛對不對這不行啊這個你去跟他們談一下好不好是 因為這部分現行院是分管是數位部在主政我們也會再跟他們做協力的一個聯繫要快要快 我記得大概三天都太久了啦大家知道嗎我們也去做一個統計給大家看一下那個統計表 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7079.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7085.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
你如果你的貸啊被或者是那個帳號被倒走之後啊一個小時內27%錢就轉走了一個小時內喔然後幾個小時大概12個小時之內到 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7093.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7112.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
幾天內大概都是大概一兩天內一半以上全部都被轉走了結果你現在搞我剛講三天已經太久了結果你現在搞到兩個半月好不好這個把它列為重點的工作即時趕快去處理好不好盡量能夠看能不能在三天內完整把這個LINE要回來這個好另外有一個最近啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7113.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7122.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我們要求Google跟YT跟LINE還有臉書他們要設法律代表這個已經設了然後開始我們把這個廣告這個實名制了可是就發現了詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7125.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7147.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
越打越炸不是沒有減少還增加了這個也是現在民眾現在最關心的那這部分你跟蘇阿波那邊也進一步再檢討 好不好好 阿卓恩這是一個重要的工作好 一起加油 德家希望你有做出很好的成績這個籌備數真的老講是籌備的有點久了趕快正式成立好 我們持續一直講謝謝委員執將 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7152.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7156.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好謝謝張七開委員那我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7179.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7179.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
这里塔 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7478.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7482.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
好那我們繼續開會那下一位請賴瑞榮委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7489.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7494.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好 謝謝召委 請李主任跟秀發部的吳副處長請李主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7501.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7523.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
這個法案內容我支持沒有特別意見但我想要關心一下反倒是TikTok的一些用戶的個資的問題這個部分全世界世界各國大家也高度在重視那我先問一下主任中共能不能取得TikTok的個資就你的了解因為畢竟是他們國家的非公務機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7525.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7547.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
理論上我覺得應該他們對於他要求提出資料在他們的國家法制是應該是可以達到的可以達到啦他也很難拒絕啦因為在專制共產的國家他很難拒絕光馬雲都無法抵抗的TikTok應該很難抵抗他們有一個數據安全法是國家可以要求他們所以他們的數據安全法是直接可以要求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7548.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7566.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
所以這個部分Ttalk是可以直接取得相關這些個資的那這樣的狀況下大家就會高度的擔憂了那我們的很多的包括世界各國包括台灣自己也會關心我們的個資會不會因為在Ttalk這邊而被中共所取得主任擔不擔心這樣的狀況的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7568.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7597.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
是當然這個也是應該一樣會被各自保護議題要被關注的那我們在未來的部分我們會有沒有辦法來強化這一塊的一個安全的維護的工作在資訊安全各自的安全的部分會 剛剛在前面委員在追尋這樣的一個說其他境外的這些業者當然一個就是管轄權的部分現階段因為畢竟現行的各自法以及整個發展過程裡面就是一個內國法 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7598.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7614.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那像這種完全不落地的這樣的管轄權要來形成我剛剛也有說明說在第二階段的各自法的大修裡面會處理這個議題就是對這種他完全不落地的所以主任會要求這個將來必須要落地嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7614.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7630.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我覺得現在因為炸房已經有這樣子的一個你如果不落地的話你詐騙的一堆或什麼的你對他幾乎完全是沒有約束力嘛是是是美國都還可以要求聽證位要求他來談台灣你要TikTok我不知道處長如果現在要TikTok是要誰來 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7632.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7661.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
現在因為現場只要按照是分管機制所以就要再請這類的我問您就您的了解如果是要邀請TikTok的人認為他有相關的疑慮要來台灣做說明政府來做說明邀請誰來他來不來可能以這部分當然可能等一下先請問一下以處長主委你的了解有沒有現在有沒有被邀還是如果要邀的話可以邀誰來他願不願意來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7663.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7678.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
有嗎是希望他進來落地投資還是說進來說明再說明就好了假如我們有一個任何一個聽證或任何一個公聽會的時候要他來說明的時候這部分我看是不是等一下請那個書發部書發部要不要說明一下有嗎有這樣的人可以說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7681.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7705.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我們補充報告目前在打炸條例的部分我們是針對國際版的T-talk的部分它現在我們還在審查中但他們在台灣有聯絡人因此在打炸的事務上台灣的聯絡人是誰 什麼樣的層級他們有一個台灣的連聯絡人是誰都還不是那麼清楚現在委員報告他就是會有一位就是在台灣這邊負責去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7706.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7711.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那個是就是業務接洽的部分所以是做業務接洽所以他的職稱是這個就是最大的問題那我問你啦他不來的話我們有辦法約束他嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7720.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7748.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
市報委員現在他其實我們在審核他的資格當中就針對國際版TikTok有沒有要設法律代表部分這個我們現在也在這個就是我提到的問題我請包括主任包括那個書發部都是要思考的如果我們連人美國至少聽證會的他的執行長還要來做個說明任何的都做說明如果來到了台灣賺台灣人的錢賺台灣的所有利益的時候然後你連請他來請誰來都還請不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7750.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7768.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
他一個代表可能某某先生而已他能不能代表Ttalk也沒有人知道能不能對他有任何約束行為也沒有甚至於如果我們認為他有相關的要約束他的話也沒有那這樣的狀況下你怎麼Ttalk等於是形同如入無人之境形同沒有管轄一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7769.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7795.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那我沒有認為剛剛主任講到了TikTok所有的東西資訊是為中共政府是可以掌握得到的那到底對台灣的權益保障在哪裡所以我認為這個部分請資訊包括我們的訴發部要加快這個相關的動作如果這樣的話形同他可以賺台灣人的利益進入台灣的市場就完全不用負擔任何責任的義務的這是沒有辦法接受的 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7795.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7819.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這沒有辦法接受的所以我希望這一塊部分要盡快來做處理我們也盡快提出來相關部分法制要盡快把它驅離下來我們沒有辦法接受這樣的狀況一再發生我們看一下其他國家印度它為了防止這樣的狀況它是全面禁止的對TikTok是全面禁止TikTok現在已經產生很多的效應很多人喜歡看TikTok裡面有產生很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7819.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7838.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
它只要詐騙的也會出現甚至虐待動物的也會出現甚至奇怪的很多東西都會出現在這個地方而TikTok只要它有商業的利益它就會進行那我們對這一塊甚至有很多設計它可以用大數據去取得你台灣人民的喜好你喜歡什麼東西你喜歡什麼樣的都可以取得大數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7839.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7856.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那甚至於他可以穿透他的政策的宣導出去給你那我們對這個是完全沒有防禦機制所以其他的 像印度已經全面封禁了 其他國家政府禁止而憲政現在也是嚴厲 其他國家也要禁止台灣作為中共的第一線面對中共的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7858.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7887.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這個作戰的第一線不管是網路作戰、認知作戰第一線我們若連基本的防衛能力都沒有連保護能力都沒有我們其實很難對台灣人民交代也很難對世界民主同盟來交代人家怎麼看你台灣在第一線大家都已經關注到這個問題了你在第一線被攻擊得最厲害你竟然完全毫無防衛的機制我希望相關單位要加快這個速度啦那再來我們來看一下TikTok傳送到中國去了有單位能查嗎?沒有嘛對不對現在的機制裡面是沒有的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7888.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7897.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
主任有嗎?有機制可以查嗎?他資料如果把我們的個資洩漏到中國去,我們有資料可查嗎?主任,要不要說明一下?有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7898.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7928.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
目前這部分還是循同剛剛所說的那樣一個狀態假如說在我們納管的這樣一個說標的在做確定的這個過程可以去進行納管主任你剛剛說了嘛這資料是有可能會洩漏到那邊去的嘛但是我們現在有沒有機制可以防堵這事情發生沒有嘛沒有機制嘛那所以連人家歐洲愛爾蘭都已經有那個可以重罰他的我們連個機制都沒有我們連罰他的機制都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7929.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7944.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
所以我們落後非常的多啦我希望這一塊要加速包括如果他傳送到有沒有違反個資法的規定我認為是有啦但是這個法要修得要更清楚因為中國在對個資的保護是不完善的 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7945.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7963.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
但是我認為這個已經嚴重違反了這一條規定了但我認為可以再訂得更清楚啦所以我希望修法的動作要加快確保消費者保護權益幫我們各自的保護權益這塊動作要加快更不要講好不好更不要講連查處能力我們事實上是沒有查處能力的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7966.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7991.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
另外你看連很多研究都已經提出來T-talk在演算法裡面有親中以美的疑慮所有的T-talk裡面的很多的都會看得出來對中國的好感度是刻意的提升的對中國對台灣經濟的正面影響是刻意提升的對經濟的失敗論是提升的台灣的經濟失敗論是提升的對於政府親美可能引發兩岸戰爭這個是提升的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7992.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8011.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
所以可以看得出來T-talk其實在執行某些的兩岸之間的政治作戰或政治的任務的這跟前面的推論都是一模一樣所以在這樣的狀況下的時候我們對這樣的行為必須要更多這個防止跟防堵的行為好不好書法部要不要說明一下好不好後面出現了什麼樣的處理的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8015.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8026.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
速發部要不要說明一下對於Ttalk這些部分未來速發部在這一塊Ttalk這些平台上面的有沒有更強而有力的一些監督監管的一些機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8029.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8053.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
各位有沒有報告因為這個部分目前如果如果根據以前的部分可能應該比較像是對於平台平台的監理這部分那我們目前只是就打詐的條例裡面的網路廣告我希望加快啦好不好書發部的成立其實要處理的有一部分就在處理現在的數位時代數位平台這個問題這是重要的一個工作啦如果大家這個時間互相還丟來丟去的話那這個業務是丟歸給誰好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8056.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8071.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
現在數發部要加快這樣的一個工作的一個成立然後把相關該建立起來對數數位平台的這一塊的那個包前陣子大家常常講數位平台的做政治審查的部分甚至於很多的一些貼文還會被審查甚至於被 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8072.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8101.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
降流這些等等我認為這個都因為沒有落地了之後你沒有一個機制在的時候你就更難去約束他的行為我希望這塊訴罰部要負起你們責任盡快的完成這相關的一些工作要讓相關這些平台有一定的壓力你不能來只想賺台灣人的錢卻不想要受到任何的約束甚至於傷害到台灣的國家利益這是沒有辦法接受的訴罰部這塊要加油要趕快把它處理起來我們來看一下連包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8102.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8121.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
數位平台審查這個詐騙 寫入詐騙繳訊網警政署臉書有三萬八千則詐騙廣告 到現在為止零開罰包括從去年到今年有一萬三千件零開罰書法部現在是零開罰嗎報告委員 我們現在有一些案子在調查中那什麼時候會完成調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8124.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8142.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
應該這個月我希望盡快了好不好這個如果連開罰都沒有所有的詐騙這麼多三萬八千則的詐騙包括從去年到今年一萬三千件的詐騙警政署抓都抓不完然後大家房子抓都抓不完然後詐騙的平台如同共犯一樣這個詐騙賺詐騙的錢然後平台賺詐騙人的這個錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8146.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8175.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這樣的行為如果連我們連對這張平台都沒有辦法開罰的話那形同沒有工具嘛 形同沒有嚇阻力嘛那當然難怪平台業者根本懶得理你嘛你政府的公信力跟威權力沒有詐騙已經是人民最深惡痛絕的一件事情了如果書法部還這麼消極我希望盡快的開罰出來讓大家看到已經有三萬多件的這個連檢舉進來都有一千多件一萬多件了應該要趕快有所作為有所動作好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8176.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8198.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
好 謝謝委員指導好 謝謝 加油 蘇鴻加油好謝謝賴隊長委員下一位請邱志維委員質詢謝主席請籌備處理主任跟護證師書視察好 請李主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8204.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8226.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
還有蘇市長這個我先請教一下這個護證師蘇市長這個護證事務所上級主管機關是不是民政署是民政署署長是政務官嘛民政署長是政務官也有可能是事務官嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8228.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8255.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
是 以這個基隆來看看這個 他是應該是政務官那戶所主任是公務人員嘛 事務官嘛 對不對是那政務官跟事務官 然後把各自啊洩密做政治用途該當何罪這個是 這很嚴重的事情耶是 公權力去侵犯個人的這個資料是由主管機關洩漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8258.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8272.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那民政處上面的這個戶政事務所中央主管局就戶政事嘛如何防備還是這是單就那個處長個人的行為以及這個兩個戶所主任去配合是相關的細節現在檢調正在進行偵查你想為什麼會會出現這種狀況戶政事務所主任是公務人員對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8288.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8317.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那後來他做那個那麼嚴重違法事項那當然是上面指示嘛那上面是處長嘛那處長他有沒有這個權力可以指揮這個護生室有時候不一定有也許有更上面對不對公務機關竟然帶頭去侵害個人的這個資料這非常嚴重的事情啊你護生室主管機關在中央啊我只能監督你我不能監督高雄基隆市啊所以這部分啊你們看怎麼去防弊 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8318.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8346.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
是跟委員報告就是我們已經在5月1號的時候有發文通令全國的互證機關就是說他們在執行相關的業務的時候必須依照相關的法規譬如說個人資料保護法就是說他們在查詢戶籍資料的時候是必須是在法定職權裡面才能夠去進行的然後我們這是基本的你還在通令這代表說這個螺絲鬆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8348.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8377.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我當過民政處長四年民政局長一年我對護證事務所當然業務它的服務它的便民各項這個檢證措施一定要做好因為會民服務嘛但對個人的資料保護一定要遵守相關法律規定如果有任何一點我知道我一定嚴辦每次開主管護證主管會報我都三聲五令 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8378.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8394.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
所有的戶籍同仁啊 是為民服務你有任何客訴 或者你有任何資料外洩 或者你有不當使用個人資料會用你的護證系統 去查個人的個資啊如果讓我知道 我另研辦不僅烤雞打餅啊 我移送檢調 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8403.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8410.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這個可能中央要更嚴厲一點,謝謝蘇市長。請問一下李主任,針對Data Branch整個外洩的部分,有沒有相關的分級管理的機制? |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8425.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8451.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
比如說這個你GDPR或者日本的個資保護法 韓國的PIPA這些他們都有通報的實現而且有分級管理那麼現行的相關的規定 現行的法規如果你們成立之後這個相關的草案內容我看不出有通報實現也看不出有分級管理你們目前的相關怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8453.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8465.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
跟委員報告現在當然是規劃母法剛剛所關切的這幾個問題要再執法那邊有一個授權的執法要再去訂剛剛所說的那個通報實現分體管理母法裡面不會訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8469.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8492.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
母法裡面規定母法裡面已經有先處理到說通報的這個範圍所以會有產生一個分級的概念到底是哪些重大的這個情況比如說是你假如說是特種個人資料的或者說比數比較大的這些目前階段的處理有明文規定嗎會在那個執法裡面把它具體明文規定出來是執法還是母法是沒有錯執法嘛對 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8493.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8518.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
你執法也要趕快這個有相關的配方出來通報實現呢通報實現目前也是要在執法裡面去規範所以現在母法通過你執法就馬上要產生嘛對不對是它產生後之後才可以決定你執法有沒有相關的概念你在用歐盟模式還是用韓國新加坡的模式是我們先請同仁先補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8519.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8544.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
是 報告委員因為其實像通報實現的部分像我們其實是有參考日本跟韓國的規定那其實他們在通報實現方面因為其實會有一些狀況比如說他可能有一些不可抗力的室友的時候他可能會有一些需要做彈性的處理所以如果一旦在母法裡面把他釘死了其實在實用運作上會比較所以我說你執法要有相關的這個方向嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8545.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8570.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那你看是5日內還是72小時還是更久應該是說原則上可能會朝向72小時但是會有一些歐盟模式會有一些例外的情況要去做彈性處理好這個部分你們在執法裡面不管是分級管理或者是這個通報時間都會在執法裡面定定會把它定清楚 對那DPO的部分我們討論DPO你現在在條文裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8571.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8593.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
你規定這個特定的公務機關特定公務機關跟高風險處理者需要設置什麼叫特定公務機關我們目前是所有公務機關都要設所有公務機關包括地方政府對中央跟地方一二三級都要目前的規劃是都要設戶政事務所都要 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8594.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8621.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
要 但是會先以地方來講的話是先應該是以機關的形態先去呈現的所以所有公共機關一二三級你知道最這個比方說民政署下面的負責事務所或者地政事務所只要是機關形態的都要設置這個DPO目前的規劃是這樣所以這個部分是在母法裡面就會規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8623.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8629.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
母法已經規定是公務機關都要設所有公務機關都要是好那另外能不能委外 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8631.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8652.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
你要找那麼多DPO人才何其容易目前現在他是用一個任務型去兼任的任務型他就有內部他的這個行政的這個層級或者行政的規範你如果他層級不夠高你上面壓力下來他就不敢辦對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8654.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8669.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
是不是這樣子我們現在的寫法是副首長跟適當的人員那因為這邊執法我們還要這裡面也有一個執法要去訂明正處長都可以公然違法了那你要不要考慮到委外DPO那部分的一個很多國家包括德國包括韓國新加坡都有讓DPO的管道能夠多元化 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8683.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8704.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
韓國在公部門的這部分還是維持是他們內部人員因為這有組織文化又怕說外部去瞭解但是你看新加坡新加坡他是允許聘用外部的顧問新加坡因為只有非公務機關各執法只有非公務機關適用那歐盟模式也是可以委由第三方啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8705.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8720.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
是 但是因為他是給各個會員國 他只是說現在規定各個會員國的你應該很清楚說能不能委外 委外的機制是什麼條件是什麼 可能要講清楚不能完全沒有DPA DPA不能委外 不能叫第三方那獨立性的保障呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8721.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8750.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
當然他這部分在執行的時候他需要一些外部的資源協助是OK啦但是我們目前你如果全部內部你不要說你副首長擔任他那個獨立性就會受到影響嘛對不對目前現在這個DPO我們不是說朝向說他要變成是一個小的獨立機關的概念最主要是先要有一個這個人在組織裡面要專門去負責有關於個資保護管理的一個文化的推進所以我們先朝兼任的方式先處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8751.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8767.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那下一階段要不要繼續再去把他的強化有這個職位就要發揮功能另外這個你要有專業的要求這個也沒有明定這個在執法裡面也沒有定你若副所長擔任他的副所長也許也是政務官也有可能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8768.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8789.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
對不對 那也不是 工人掉下去也不是這方面專業啊所以你們對這個資格跟他的專業啊你不能說一律就是由副所長來擔任會在執法裡面把這部分要如何去指定相當的人員裡面執法會再定出來 不會說隨意派一個來做這個我質詢不會無邊際的時間到了我就會應該喔 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8796.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8823.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
國會的質詢應該在委員會的質詢應該比照這個院會時間到了就斷麥否則這個無邊際質詢齁這個高鐵我一言再言也要也要邀請委員要上來啦我要必須要來我要遵守邀請委員所以不能無邊際質詢啦我不是跟你說我是跟那個趙偉說啦我剛剛有一瞬間想說那我是不是要斷麥啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8826.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8853.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
不過我沒有這樣做謝謝請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝主席 本席邀請李主任好 請李主任楊委員早 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8855.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8871.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我國個資外洩的事件層出不窮從健保、勞保、戶政體系、民間金融以及網路的平台民眾對於整個個資幾乎認為是沒有安全可言 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8872.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8895.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
在這樣的情況之下 雖然政府宣誓在今年的8月要設立個人資料保護委員會來回應憲法法庭要求建立獨立監督機制的裁定但是根據目前儲備處所揭示的資料顯示各支會不僅在組織層級方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8896.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8919.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
他是偏低因為是三級單位那僅為行政院下面剛剛本席所說的三級機關他的人力編制監管以及法權那麼的一個線的一個權限都遠低於國際的一個標準甚至連基本的獨立性 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8920.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8944.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
大家都高度的質疑是不是能夠有所保障那所以呢更遑論真正的擔任起保護全民各自安全的一個責任所以本席要在這邊請教在這邊請教也就是各自會未來是否會具備獨立調查約談甚至對大型的平台跟企業進行採訪的法定權限請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8949.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8976.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
好 謝謝委員因為這是法律規定出來的一個獨立機關然後這個個資法有賦予給它的獨立調查的這個權限所以它本身是一個實質的一個工作機關它不是一個只是做一個協調或是說實質的獨立機關本身再請教主任你認為列為三級單位它的層級是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8977.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9002.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
陳吉太提請說明我也是不會影響因為在我們這兩個層次一個是這是法律賦予的他要去執法那不管是公務機關非公務機關因為他是有法律賦予的當然是法律賦予所以你認為不會那也很好我們希望在8月份成立的時候我們有所作為但是如果沒有實質的監督的力道 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9003.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9028.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那各支會呢他不僅沒有辦法去回應憲法法庭對於獨立監督的機制的要求也沒有辦法讓民眾對於政府有能力守住他們各支個人的資料的一個安全性的一個信任所以這一點非常的重要一定要謹慎之那接下來本校要請教也就是說國內各支外卸我們進來討論目前的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9037.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9055.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
1660萬筆的病患資料外洩到最近的張機因為駭客攻擊導致整個系統癱亂人民對於這個個資是焦慮不斷的在提升所以行政院在3月27號通過了個人資料保護法的修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9057.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9076.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
針對於非公務機關的行政檢查權並加強對私部門各自使用的一個監管但是我們看到目前許多的中小企業他們沒有資源去建構完整的資安管理體系那政府你如果以高密度 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9077.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9098.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
以反法的這個方式來進行稽查它可能會導致於它整個營運的一個負擔甚至相對會讓這個數位發展成為它另類的一個經濟壓力的一個來源所以本席要請教各自會定有明定六年過渡期六年的過渡期讓民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9102.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9116.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
不知道你這個過渡期是要做什麼所以未來你是否會對於中小企業進行這個輔導讓中小企業它能夠有完整的一個治安你的六年過渡期到底是什麼請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9118.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9137.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
各位報告 那個六年是某些目前已經有在進行具體監管的比如說都有定 中央目的世界原來都有定安危辦法的這些業者我們會在這個過渡期因為這個機關剛投射它也是需要很多經驗人力的成長那對於我們中小企業呢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9138.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9160.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
中小企業假如說目前沒有列在未來這個公告六年還沒有回收的其他部分就全部都是個人資料保護人員會來進行監管都會來監管對啊那你這個六年到底我們因為很多人打電話來問中小企業他說這個到底是要做什麼因為六年的過渡期我們可以做什麼政府可以協助我們什麼請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9161.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9188.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
就是那個所謂的六年是指會先公告某些行業還是先由現有的中央目的事業主任跟地方政府什麼時候會公告就等到這個法要實施了8月份會同步嗎會同步公告嗎我們努力大法官當時候的期盼是說能夠盡早啦當然大法官沒有說已經宣告了8月那請教8月要成立那這個相關的你說的行業別 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9189.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9200.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
你們有沒有規管 到底你們一定有KPI啊 現在已經五月了有 是 我們也在跟各個中央目的地正在討論就是現在還在討論 難怪民眾這麼害怕什麼時候會告訴我們當然這個法通過的時候 接下來這幾個都會進行都會進行什麼都會進行我們剛才所說的 因為要做這個公告啊 是 那什麼時候要公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9215.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9239.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
公告當然是要先配合我們現在行政院指定施行日期的時間指定施行日期所以現在沒有辦法告訴社會大眾什麼時候公告我覺得還是要準備期啦要準備期讓我們民眾也不安的一個時期希望你們要依照法令好好趕快去歸管公告讓民眾了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9241.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9245.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
了解 你現在沒有辦法告訴本席那最後我請書法部請書法部 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9253.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9277.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
蘇花部 本席要跟你討論的是 最近來詐騙的犯罪 橫行非常的多那被害人數跟金額一直在增加李主任你可以坐 謝謝那社群平台上面的詐騙廣告更是層出不窮 但是依照詐騙犯 這個詐欺犯罪違反條例裡頭的第39條蘇花部的角色是什麼 你是主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9278.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9299.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
對不對 你是主管機關應對於未合理期間內移除的違法廣告的業者依法裁決但是到目前為止 包括Facebook等這些大型的投資詐騙廣告橫行這麼多年 冒用的這麼多很多的名人都被冒用但是速發部你到目前為止是都沒有開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9301.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9326.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
但是我們社會上就明明樣態是這麼多你是主管機關單位 更離譜的是刑事局北京給你一個數字 刑事局在今年1月到3月只有這三個月通報臉書下架 高達3.8萬則的詐騙廣告但是書發部你告訴我們的是說你尚未收到違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9327.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9340.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
的樣態違法的樣態那等於是讓放任讓詐騙廣告不斷的去重複來刊登啊你毫無實質的作為啊所以請教副座訴法部針對於臉書3.8萬則的詐騙廣告卻是零開罰的情況之下你們的作為是什麼請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9353.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9370.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
謝謝委員 請做說明有關這3.8萬則的部分因為我們有規定的下架時間那臉書都在法定的時間內已經下架處理那這個部分就是我們也都有陸續的追蹤那這個很糟糕 本席跟你實質討論你說他在這個範圍內就下架那你不是平白讓他們就當這個是溫床嗎打詐是法的目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9382.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9405.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
打造書法的目的是什麼是希望讓書發部你針對於這些的平台你更有監管的一個權利啊讓民眾可以安心啊你明明看到數量增加人數增加被詐騙的金額增加那你到底是你的法律面不夠還是你的執行面不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9406.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9418.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
請做說明包委員這個部分首先還是要說明它已經在規定的時間下架這個部分規定的時間下架現在社會的樣態這麼嚴肅那你們要不要去討論要怎麼樣解決3.8萬刑事局要3.8萬則的廣告要下架那我們出發部毫無作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9430.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9453.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
要不要去檢討你的法律面跟你的執行面我們在執行面的部分也都有持續在跟業者溝通針對某些廣告特定的類型它內部的審查的部分的作為的精進這個部分我們產業署的部分也都有持續在跟業者溝通高高於尺 磨高於杖 本席具體建議針對於目前被詐騙的人數增加 金額增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9454.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9468.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
造成社會的不安請訴法部針對於你們的法律去研議你們的執行力去研議怎麼樣可以保障我們的人民啊不然我們通過打仗司法要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9470.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9493.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
包委員這部分其他的目前刑事局有近期4月25號還有一些案件移送過來那這個相關的行政調查程序我們也在進行中那有確切違法行為的時候如果調查屬實我們還是會執行開放謝謝 趕快加油執行力要大 法不夠趕快提出讓人民詐騙的事件可以降低好不好 謝謝委員謝謝請回座下面執行請蔡議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9509.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9533.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
謝謝主席是不是有請這個李主任 理事長李主任主任早那針對早上有部分委員諮詢過基隆市這個民政處 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9534.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9559.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
就是公部門直接去非法利用民眾的個資這件事情我想要再具體問主任如果將來我們成立了個人資料的一個委員會那針對這樣的行為由公務員甚至機關的首長直接非法利用民眾的個資那未來我們要怎樣去處理這類似的事件跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9560.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9573.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
那在個資法的目前現行已經有的框架就已經規定的公務機關他在相關依法收集的這個可能要在原本的特定目的之內來進行的一個利用那 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9576.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9593.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
個人資料保護委員會成立之後對於公益機關的這個監管是一天又一天全部納管那剛剛講到說在看這個各樣的過程裡面他同時會很快處理到說這邊有沒有刑事責任 民事責任還有那個我想刑事責任這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9594.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9617.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
不會有問題嘛 因為你說這個處長也收押了嘛那使用個資會有刑事責任這件事但是我們從這裡看到一個很大的問題就是機關在使用民眾的個資這件事情看起來他的監管非常的薄弱是 所以現在要再形成公部門的這部分所謂的個人資料保護長這個機制要先帶進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9619.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9644.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
公部門的個人資料保護長保護長這個機制要先帶進來那如果個人資料保護長也因為機關的內部的一個文化他也被他也他就是使用這個啊照理民政處長他就是當然要保護個人個資啊如果民政處長帶頭去使用他人個資違法使用那未來如何確保個人資料保護長不會做出類似這樣的違法行徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9645.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9662.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
在我們現在的規劃公務機關業本來就是全民先納管有事前跟事後當然這個案子假如發生之後事後的檢查機制調查那當然會出來但是現在的規劃是會在事前我們會去做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9663.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9686.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
公部門的部分我們有所謂的事前的一個計劃去落實現有的資料像尤其在這個個案裡面最主要看到他本來就已經有個作用法戶籍法那戶籍法裡面去規定相關的戶籍資料你各級人員去動用這個資料是用在哪個目的這些當然稽查的一個頻率跟過程他們用在目的就是用在罷免的連署啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9689.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9714.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
他應該只能用在正式假設說當然就是說使用民眾的個資如果是站在他的他要一個合法使用嘛那我現在想要請教的就是說那如果我是被利用的民眾第一個我可以自吸嗎我有辦法自吸我的個資是在這一次被非法利用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9715.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9737.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
裡面之一,我有辦法知道嗎?第二個,如果我知道了,我可以申請國賠嗎?是,剛剛說的第一個未來的運作的話,就是12條所說的那個通知當事人,因為它會變成是屬於個人資料安全維護的事故,包含裡面有人員把資料拿出去,那這個部分的話就會進到那個機制,要去通知當事人,那國賠本來現行規定28條就有啦, |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9740.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9769.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那若是因為公務機關它裡面的公務員執行的職務去造成對於個人資料的一個侵害現有的規定我想基隆這個案例就很清楚啊你剛講的它都構成啊違反使用啊那現在只是說我個別被利用的人我沒有辦法知道所以這是我們的修法我們要求要通知那到底是多久的時間通知這個可能未來在處理法案的時候我們要討論就是通知的時間點然後第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9770.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9790.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
好如果我個人我有辦法去查詢嗎就比方說我想要從去看我自己的健保資料這段期間有多少人查詢我或者是我要去看我的戶證資料我的我自己的房產資料或者是我的年增資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9792.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9806.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
因為我們知道說現在像聯合信用中心像銀行都會去查個人的年增資料那我有辦法知悉我在這段時間有多少人查我的資料這個我可以去有辦法去做查詢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9806.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9822.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
是 當然現在這個畫面有顯示另外一個資訊說蘇發部有去承諾未來當然他跟我們去討論說現有的平台我沒記錯 因為本來就有一個所謂的MyData這樣的一個平台也正在運作中 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9823.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9848.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
那如何去結合把這些深化到說他自己的一個跟他有關的個人資料相關的利用的一些內容假如在那個平台未來的發展可以去做當然我們當然也樂見這對於民眾的權益保障是我想就是說到底誰查詢我這件事情這個是可能再需要再進一步的調查可是民眾至少有權益可以去知道我被查詢幾次吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9850.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9877.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我被查詢的次數至少要這一點先讓我知道至於到底是誰有一些可能是基於犯罪的偵訪這個調查官或是檢察官或者是其他的單位在查的那他們要有他們的目的那之後是不是要有一個回報機制讓人民知道我的資料被查詢了這個是第一個第二個我還是很在意的像這一次基隆的事件這些被查詢然後被用不當用在 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9878.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9884.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這一個個資被用在跟罷免有關的那這個是不是符合郭培的要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9886.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9909.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這件事情我覺得這個未來都要研究 多少人被處理這個法案就有這麼明目張膽這麼經典的盜用各自的案件在這裡這個狀況我覺得要好好研究而且未來要怎麼杜絕公部門不要再發生類似的狀況是 我們這個案例也會把它列為未來在修法過程裡面很重要的一個重點好 謝謝好 謝謝趙偉好 謝謝陳議員 請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9916.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9937.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
蔡委員資訊真是經典 時間掌握又有效率 俗稱本委員會的楷模好 委員謝謝邱志維委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9940.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9961.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
下来请苏清泉委员苏清泉委员苏清泉委员不在请李坤成委员李坤成委员李坤成委员不在请钟嘉斌委员钟嘉斌委员钟嘉斌委员不在请李玉玲委员李玉玲委员李玉玲委员不在请林楚英委员林楚英委员林楚英委员不在请何新淳委员何新淳委员何新淳委员不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9962.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9983.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
好 登記發言委員除不在場者外均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員呂玉玲 謝一鳳 張家俊 陳超明所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報書面質詢及未答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會本日議程詢答完畢我們則期再繼續審查現在散會 |