| IVOD_ID |
16655 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16655 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-08T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-08T14:31:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
06:01:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6851a3f2a9ffa3008049b5fa2f296a9353414bfadd538e1bbbf6754cf4eb29e6c305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「長照2.0執行情形檢討及3.0未來規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請衛生福利部部長就「澳洲進口豬腳驗出含萊克多巴胺，如何加強肉品食安查驗，讓民眾放心」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 14:31:00 |
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SPEAKER_10 |
| transcript.pyannote[3646].start |
21645.22221875 |
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21645.69471875 |
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SPEAKER_07 |
| transcript.pyannote[3647].start |
21645.69471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[3647].end |
21646.72409375 |
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SPEAKER_07 |
| transcript.pyannote[3648].start |
21647.01096875 |
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21647.02784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3649].speaker |
SPEAKER_07 |
| transcript.pyannote[3649].start |
21647.19659375 |
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21648.29346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[3650].speaker |
SPEAKER_07 |
| transcript.pyannote[3650].start |
21649.05284375 |
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21653.27159375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1857.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1859.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1883.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1910.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第九次全體委員會議議事錄時間一百一十四年四月三十日星期三九十一分至十三十十六分五月一日星期四九十至十三十二十七分地點群閑樓八零一會議室出席委員成委員招資等十五人列席委員中委員嘉賓等十八人列席官員四月三十日勞動部部長洪生翰等相關人員五月一日 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1911.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1924.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
衛生福利部部長邱太元等相關人員主席劉兆吉委員建國4月30日報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定邀請勞動部部長經濟部及內政部就五一勞動節前夕我國勞工職場職業預防職業災害及廠場墜落事故之檢討與精進作為進行專題報告並備質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1935.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1959.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
本日會議由勞動部部長報告後委員陳昭之等18人提出質詢均經勞動部部長及內政部國土管理署總工程司事副總工程司蘇建隆及各相關主管等及其答覆決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1960.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1974.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
5月1日討論事項審查委員王玉明等18人委員劉建國等16人分別擬據病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案以及委員邱志威等19人擬據病人自主權利法第8條第9條及第15條條文修正草案等3案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1977.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2006.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
本日會議由衛生福利部部長說明後委員陳昭志等15人提出質詢其中委員王玉敏及劉建國並同說明提案指趣軍經衛生福利部部長及各相關主管等及其答覆委員圖存及陳金輝所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決議一說明及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2006.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2025.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
三 病人自主全體法部分條文修正草案等三案令則其繼續審查 宣讀完畢請問委員會 上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺落之處沒有 我們議事錄確定那本日的會議議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2028.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2048.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
第一 邀請衛生福利部部長就長照2.0執行情形檢討及3.0未來規劃進行專案報告並備質詢第二 邀請衛生福利部長就澳洲進口豬腳驗出萊克多巴胺 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2049.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2076.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
如何加強弱品食安檢驗查驗讓民眾放心進行專案報告並被質詢以上一層採綜合詢答那我現在介紹在場的委員跟列席官員第一個陳教授委員林業勤委員我們王振旭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2082.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2108.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
介紹在場行政官員李衛務部長 邱太元政務次長 呂健德長照司司長 朱建芳現在情形不錯護理及健康照護司司長 蔡淑鳳口腔健康司司長 張有敏 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2111.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2131.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
社保師代理師長陳真惠醫事師檢任計政呂煉池食品藥物管理署署長江志剛中央健康保險署署長施聰亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2135.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2162.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
歡迎社家署副署長張美美歡迎 歡迎國建署組長劉家秀接下來請衛福部邱部長就本日議程並案報告謝謝主席 各位委員 女士 先生 大家好今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2164.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2176.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
大院第11屆第三會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開全體委員會議太陽撐腰列席報告深感榮幸有關專題報告長照2.0執行情形檢討及3.0未來規劃及 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2182.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2210.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
澳洲進口豬腳驗出含萊克多巴胺如何加強肉品食安查驗讓民眾安心敬請參列書面報告以下向各位委員摺要說明首先針對長照2.0執行情形檢討部分長照2.0在公司力公司協力積極推動下已有具體進展長照經費長照照顧人力服務人數服務涵蓋率及長照據據點 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2213.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2218.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
數皆有顯著成長相較於105年經費成長了為17倍達879億人力成長近4倍達10萬421人服務人數成長為8.4倍達75.7萬人服務涵蓋率成長4.2倍達84.86% |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2236.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2264.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
據點成長為20.9倍達15,000處出院準備銜接長照服務之服務效率由平均51天降至4天個案整體服務滿意度達9成針對長照服務強化部分強化縣市督導管理機制輔導服務提供輔導服務提供單位提升服務品質擴增長照服務量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2264.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2280.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
提升住宿機構品質多元充實照護能力此外本部應用不同媒體通路持續強化一律多照顧照顧是專業的觀念宣傳其引發民眾共感 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2280.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2289.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
藉以翻轉民眾照顧觀念提高其對長照服務的認識及使用意願其次,針對3.0未來規劃部分124年3月13日行政院第3943次會議決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2297.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2316.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
提前自明115年期推動長照3.0計畫本部將與相關部會各地方政府持續合作共同推動長照3.0計畫在2.0以人為本以社區為基礎連續照顧的基礎下以健康促進 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2317.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2340.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
醫療照顧整合、積極互能、提升機構量能強化家庭支持、導入智慧照顧、落實安寧善中及人力專業發展等八大目標打造居家、社區、機構、醫療、社福聯繫性的醫照整合服務本部將結合社會各界力量推動長照3.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2342.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2368.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
达成赖总统国家希望工程扩大社会投资减轻家庭负担及强化医疗照顾衔接打造健康台湾的实证目标长寿3.0计划将持续增加服务据点和内容给予家庭照顾者和长照机构更多的支持并结合医疗和社会福利提升对失能者的照顾 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2369.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2395.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
其達成長照3.0、健康老化、在地安老、安寧善終的願景最後針對澳洲進口豬腳驗出含萊克多巴胺如何加強熱品食安查驗讓民眾放心部分本部在食安優先的前提下透過科學分析定定安全且合理的豬牛產品相關管理規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2397.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2406.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
牛豬產地標示規範經一體適用於國產及輸入產品並持續依食安法執行邊界食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2408.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2433.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
輸入查驗 查驗結果符合規定後 使得輸入豬肉儀錶板是本部一直秉持檢驗結果的透明揭露 讓民眾安心所有放行產品都在科學分析下可接受奉獻未來也持續依食安優先科學分析 國際標準及市場稽查辦理本部持續抽驗市售的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2435.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2457.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
國產及進口的豬牛肉產品檢驗乙型瘦體素含萊克多巴胺以及茶核原產地標示茶核範圍包括國產及進口產品茶核違規及依法採取以維護民眾知的權益並提升國人對市售食品的信任 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2458.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2470.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
以上為本部針對本次專題報告提出簡料說明感謝各位委員指教及監督在此靜置謝陳並請各位委員繼續予以支持以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝部長那有關本次會議各項 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2480.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2508.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報現在我們開始巡打 做以下宣告本會委員巡打時間8分鐘 內席委員4分鐘10點半截止發言登記委員如果書面質詢 請於上位前提出 預期不受理暫定10點半左右 休息10分鐘迎折上11點半處理臨時提案11點截止登記好 現在我們請第一位委員陳昭芝發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2513.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2516.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩邱部長部長委員長 部長早 民進黨政府長期以來一直非常的驕傲說我們進口的這個豬就是裡面擔心有來他非常的驕傲說我們長期都是零檢出那當然再次破功部長你有信任嗎 你剛正談也很久了一直在強調我們是零檢出嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2544.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2570.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
對不對我總質詢質詢這個剛開始這個陳建仁院長的時候他們也說都一直零檢出嘛就是過去都是這樣引以為榮嘛這次就是破功部長我要請問你被檢出這個就沒有檢出萊克多巴胺是不是表示這隻豬沒有被餵來豬沒有被餵來呢你可以這樣推論嗎沒有檢出是表示他源頭沒有餵這個萊克多巴胺嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2571.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2588.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你的分業認知呢不一定因為他有參流的一個時間嘛對好就是說當時我也希望食藥署不要一直說台灣沒有萊豬你只是檢驗不出來他源頭是有未來的因為我們法是允許的這是第二個我要跟部長講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2589.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2618.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那多數台灣人是不想要吃萊豬為什麼因為我看過很多影片啊那個民進黨的委員啊包括柯董昭啊什麼蕭美琪當時他們都一直喊我們都要零減豬我們絕不吃萊這表示為什麼他們在反映民意民意是不想要吃萊不管他的這個知識或想法是從以來這是一個沒有辦法改變的這個部分但是這次非常諷刺的是這次是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2619.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2644.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
澳豬澳洲來的豬驗出來但是長期那個美豬到目前並沒有驗出對嗎是不是情況是這樣這次驗出來是從澳洲進口的豬以前所有檢查過的都沒有嘛就這次破功但是是從這個只有這三批我沒有在談法律啦我知道江署長你談的是什麼但是我不懂啊如果官方說這是合格的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2645.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2656.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
然後不需要有流向的告知那為什麼業者他要出來道歉又把他銷毀呢我很怕看到這種場景我一生沒有見識過這個場景官方說你OK然後你出來銷毀又道歉這個發生什麼事呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2661.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2673.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
不然這發生什麼事情呢第一個謝謝委員我簡單簡單的回答食安優先這個永遠都是我們不變的真理但是我們會依法嘛依法就是用不然你不覺得很奇怪依法啊OK啊為什麼業者那麼害怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2677.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2696.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那我們尊重業者自主的一個做法跟要求但是我們一切都是按照規定來做我們有守護安全的把關那部長我再問一件事為什麼不公布我當然有看到這個江署長的理由為什麼不 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2697.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2721.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
國人沒有權利知道我吃的東西有沒有來嗎這是第一個你不公佈第二個我要再講蔡政府是如何信誓旦旦的說教育部也跟著發出非常嚴格的一個指令就是說所有的萊豬不准進校園那你現在碰到這個狀況你怎麼知道他不進校園你能保證嗎那還是說他們以前的承諾你要翻頁不管了反正是已經換過人當總統了 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2724.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2728.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
怎麼辦?要不要進校園?我們都一體適用的啦那是不是這個部分請署長回答一下你還沒有就任,但是蔡政府承諾過啊還是同一個執政黨啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2737.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2755.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
謝謝委員這邊做簡單的說明就是說萊克多巴胺在我們的用藥裡面動物用藥裡面其實是千千百百種的一種所以每一種其實都經過了食品安全風險評估下來訂下來訂完之後它如果是合於標準的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2755.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2769.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們依法上面對於他的揭露其實對廠商的不利你新上任然後你依法去做事我這次沒有就是但是我要告訴你過去整個政治氛圍不是這樣請部長您好好看這張表左邊這張表圖是2022年行政院的圖卡他為了澄清事實請看中間那個點因為網路說很多國家的萊要進來了萊豬進來但是他說請看紅字只有美國萊豬會進口到 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2785.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2790.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
台灣然後他還做了圖卡行政院的圖卡加拿大出口的豬肉不函來紐西蘭從沒進口澳洲國內生產幾乎不用來進口總量是微乎其微那美國有數字好 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2800.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2815.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
就是說這是行政院寫的圖卡結果現在我們發現不是只有美國萊豬進來澳洲也進來那我可不可以說這四年前五年前行政院說謊說謊成性這個是行政院的圖卡為了查核事實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2817.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2831.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
部長你有看過這個圖齁?也是一樣喔我告訴你不要給我想要翻頁喔還是同一個執政黨在同一個黨在執政喔委員這邊我可以做簡單的回覆因為全世界可以使用萊豬萊特多巴胺在當年有266國有 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2834.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2861.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
20個國家領悟的部分是有6個國家其中呢來到台灣台灣我們進口裡面可以允許他進口的國家裡面豬肉的其實是有6個國家那等一下停下來包括美國、加拿大、澳洲、紐西蘭、韓國你給我們事實但是我追究的是政治承諾這張圖卡是2020年行政院給國人用的而且他還是為了說網友的一些不實的傳和他用事實來講這張圖卡你可以去查 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2863.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2881 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
他告訴我們的事實不是這樣啊你再看右邊你看蘇貞昌院長信誓旦旦啊為茶廠不給進口就是說需要我國派員赴美茶廠後才可以進口那我想問一下請問石耀署你有沒有去澳洲茶廠這邊跟委員就進入報告因為澳洲是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2889.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2908.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
100年以前在經濟部管理的前提之下就已經進來了他已經約定俗成的歷史上他就是已經是既然是安全的那沒關係你現在事務官你沒辦法回答我們未來可以我們未來可以機器人案發蘇貞昌信誓旦旦說沒茶場不能進來那為什麼美豬要茶場那個澳洲 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2909.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2926.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
不用查場的我們去查我們在官網上沒有看到你們有到澳洲去查場的記錄啊沒有啊但是他說的啊說得非常清楚當年是這樣子的那我要再告訴你一件很嚴重的事美國一定會把美牛美豬當作談判的籌碼就非關稅貿易障礙的部分那美國會跟我們講啊為什麼他們美國進來的豬要查場為什麼澳洲進來的豬不用查場為什麼雙重標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2936.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2939.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
為什麼在國際上 這個一定是弱點 談判的弱點謝謝委員的提醒因為我們整體對於兩國國一國之間的貿易在我們新的規定之前它就已經是正常在進口的狀況所以你看你國內是騙人的你國內明明告訴我們只有美國來都會進口現在你看到澳洲來不管你合不合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2963.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2980.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
就是跟圖卡不一樣,行政院,不然你就從做一張新的圖卡你不要騙人,當時你還是會抵說人家說謊話做的圖卡,這個圖卡你沒辦法否認啊然後現在呢,現在對不對,澳洲不用查藏,美國要查藏我要死了啦,你跟川普要怎麼說,說不清楚啦好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2982.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3000.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
部長好好回去看看怎麼處理這件事接下來謝謝署長我來請教長照問題台灣居家服務政策聯盟在去年提出了這個3.0的版的照顧這個一個政策的建言書希望國家能夠有更完美的完善的一個居家照顧政策當時三個政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3002.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3024.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
七個委員都出席了表示說這個是大家非常重視那裡面有四個部分部長我是希望您可以看一下那個有關這個當然如果你沒有空讀我希望你的部署讀一讀然後把重點這個建言書非常的完整那第四項我今天要跟部長詢問的是第四項改善平建制度這部分我希望長照司可以好好的聽取這個意見他在裡面請你看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3027.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3053.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這改善評鑑制度上面導入專家要業界專家建立社會影響力導向的評鑑模式部長很多陳情單位來跟我們說說在評鑑過程當中發生什麼事委員拍桌打斷說明質疑社工專業甚至提出跟評鑑項目無關的資料要求對現場人員冷嘲熱諷予待羞辱他們沒有辦法申訴就跑來跟在野黨的立委講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3056.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3065.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
怎麼會發生這種事情我們絕對不允許這樣的情況發生所以他們希望能夠導入業界專家這個跟很多評鑑一樣你不能讓專家在雲端講話你不能讓學者在雲端講話你要讓業者也進來參與這個評鑑聽聽看他講對不對這個像我們現在的共鳴會也現在都有病人專列正式已經是正式席次了還不是列席所以這個問題就出在這個地方我相信一個在雲端一個在地氣所以他們覺得很差勁 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3085.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3104.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
或是評鑑委員很傲慢就全部用罵的口吻受不了了包委員我想你也了解醫院評鑑的一個制度醫院評鑑委員其實是授信非常的嚴格我向我們政府每一個評鑑的委員都是都是當然也有迴避的機制啦但是如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3106.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3114.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
問的不是那個問題,然後態度又不好,我只有這個沒有人敢檢舉啦,不用檢舉我們就要知道啊現在我給你看一下,請看一下,目前的這個老人住宿型機構它有分等老人福利機構還分從優等到甲乙丙丁,分了五個等級 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3127.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3140.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
但是法人住宿宿的長照機構跟護理之家就是合格或不合格當然如果特別表現優的90分以上又符合必要條件我們就把它列為優等我現在認知沒錯吧你現在的這個評鑑制度是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3142.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3152.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
既然有優甲乙丙丁等那這個出現什麼問題呢你看起來有鑑別度但實際上至少三個問題第一個制度不公嘛你同樣都是住宿式的這個長照機構那為什麼這個護理自家跟法輪長照機構他們就可以用合格或不合格那就可以繼續提供服務甚至拿到這個補助的這個計畫但是老人福利機構因為他被分了等地嘛那在一等其實還是70分啦在另外兩個就還是合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3172.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3186.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
但是他就拿不到他就拿不到這個甚至會影響因為他是被當作次等所以拿不到這個沒有辦法接案再回去那個圖給讓部長再看一次第二個社會觀感很惡劣 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3187.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3191.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
平建這個壓力會扭曲這個經營方向因為他可能差一分 79分就在一等80分才能到甲等平建都是這樣他開始美化那個資料圖表書面資料表格把它做美化再加一分他就回去甲等 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3204.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3224.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那過去已等還是不準備接受這個新增公費住民那當然我也很肯定這個社家署他已經把這個規定改掉可是已等就是一個歧視的概念所以那這個背離這個政策的一致性那業界都知道平建前後他們就是離此的旺潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3225.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3247.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
就是會跑掉所以這個等地的評鑑會讓這個品質評估變成行政資料的比賽競賽所以民間團體我這裡要請教部長他們希望能夠一致這三件事一致因為同屬於長照同時屬於住宿型的長照機構可不可以改成合格跟不合格那麼90分以上我們還是可以保留優等 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3248.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3270.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這樣子你不但是可以有所謂的保留標竿的獎勵也可以避免說壓縮到他們為了應付評鑑不然你知道醫院為了應付評鑑花多少時間我們都心裡有數這些機構他們要準備這個為了加一分能夠上一個級數那可以嗎你今天可以承諾說這個要一致這個是行政執行就可以做到為什麼要分開評鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3272.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3292.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
謝謝委員寶貴的建議我想這個部分我請理事長簡單簡要回答說未來的改進非常感謝委員的關心我想這個方向是對的那個之前其實我們但是現在修老扶法那我跟委員報告我們現在目前已經在研擬那你方向是不是往這個方向對沒錯我們就往這個方向我覺得委員這個建議非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3294.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3307.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
如果你同意的話因為很多機構是在這樣等因為之前那個像我有到那個黃秀芳委員他們有一個方向是這樣就好了我們就是我找一個方向好不好我知道時間有事不好意思那最後我要跟大家看請大家看一下那個長照杯哥這個從2.0到1.02.0到3.0現在是要進步了但是長照杯哥依然持續發生老人受暴的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3316.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3333.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
受到受暴力 受暴的通報這5年增加了5成增加了這個5成而且是來自直系血親啊 配偶等等就是說不同身份的照顧人或相對人都一直在增加那根據這個中華民國家庭照顧者關懷總會他們統計他們只能看報紙統計報紙揭發他才能統計2024年有8件2023年有14件這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3341.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3366.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
上個月至少有兩件當然上個月兩件其中一件跟詐騙有關所以我是說在未來的設計上3.0你要對於照顧者的壓力還有照顧者家庭的家庭暴力這個部分可是我怎麼查你都沒有琢磨你就是說下一張這個圖我現在看到你們所有的新聞稿所有公開資訊都沒有對這一點提出改善方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3367.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3373.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
就是長哨杯哥的這個部分搞不好你們有更多更真實的資料因為這個他們的統計是根據報紙的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3377.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3397.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那這個部分要不要納入你們的3.0的版本裡怎麼樣來改善包委員 我們這個部分 委員講得很好那我們這部分是在社安網 社安網裡面其實有關於老人疏忽的辨識工具我們這邊會來加速推動還是要注意這件事 這個是大家看了都很難過啦一定 當然好 謝謝兩位 謝謝主席謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長來 接續我們請林業勤委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3415.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3443.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
主席有請那個呂次長好 次長市長早 委員長好市長因應我們的長照需求減輕家庭負擔我們在2017年就推動了長照10年的計畫那現在為了我們的實踐總統的建立台灣的國政願景呢事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3443.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3459.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
要優化長照2.0來啟動長照3.0你們3月份也開始去做這樣子的一個討論希望摒除掉長照2.0的一些比較不OK的狀態裡邊然後能夠去優化然後來提出長照3.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3460.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3482.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以看起來不只是我覺得量的問題跟值得提升看你們報告看起來事實上是大家滿意度也非常高可是我們當然希望長照3.0可以更好的話那就想來問就是衛福部一直都沒有對社會好好說明就是說社會各界都是對長照3.0有無限美好的想像 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3483.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3504.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
可是大家也有更多的猜測至少明天團體是這樣就請問究竟什麼是長照3.0那是不是可以簡單說明我跟委員報告簡單三個重點第一個事實上就是因為賴先生自己本身也是醫生那邱部長他這邊也非常非常琢磨所以我們第一個重點事實上就是醫療與長照的結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3507.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3535.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那這裡面具體來說就兩個重點第一個就是PAC就是即興後期另外第二個部分事實上就是有跟大家一計畫的導入所以這第一個重點第二個是積極賦能我們希望我們的長輩他不僅僅只是這一個長照而已而且甚至如果盡可能的話他甚至還可以改善他的整個這一個照顧等級所以賦能不光復健是賦能的部分第三個事實上就是整個所謂的我們所謂安寧善終的概念我們希望我們每位長輩 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3536.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3552.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
為我們每位被照顧的一個長輩他都能夠有一個最好的一個照顧所以簡單來說這三個重點次長你這樣講的話就是因為從你的書面報告裡面列出了八大目標嘛所以我就換個角度來問像你剛剛提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3555.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3575.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這到底是不是你的政策亮點 因為我覺得從巴拉目標裡面去看勉強如果講亮點的話就導入智慧照顧跟落實安寧善終之外可是你剛剛講大家醫這些那這是不是你長照3.0的政策亮點嗎或者你現在可不可以講說 具體你們的政策亮點是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3576.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3599.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我也必須要跟委員報告啦因為現在目前就是我們現在目前整個的計畫都已經送到行政院那行政院現在目前我們在等待他的這個核定但是如果說我現在可以透露的話主要就是委員剛剛所說的就是剛剛說的大嘉義計畫裡面因為我們現在也會非常重要是希望就是說我們的照顧能夠盡可能的也能夠提供到居家 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3600.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3625.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以我們到時候像部長他是就是大家一計畫裡面我們有關於那個有關居家照顧的這部分還有像是崇良市署長他一直都在推動有關HAH的這一個部分我們去年也已經推動了這一個在來急症照護在這個基礎上面我們會來來往就是整個這一個居家的這一個的這一個醫療照顧的部分來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3627.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3634.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
因為在有限的裁員底下勢必要集中資源來擴大服務對象避免重複的開銷然後那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3636.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3660.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
同時也可以增加服務項目所以達到1加1等於2的效果這是市政的ABC那所以民間大也是期待就是說醫療跟社福接下來方向長照應該是說醫療跟社福是不是可以整合在社區裡邊那當然我們更希望擴大服務對象兒少老夫這樣是不是可以都納入所以我覺得長照是不是可以去整合到居家社區跟醫療社福 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3662.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3684.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
甚至連續性照顧的服務來擴大服務對象再增加服務項目所以我就要問市長這邊想問的是首先原本整合的事實上是我們的身障跟腸整合進去所以那個身障的服務那同時我們也看到這兩個服務但事實上是某些部分類似的項目可以互相替代可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3685.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3699.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
像居家服務跟個住可是實務上卻有我們現在就最近是收到一些案子就是說像成古部全鎮也就俗稱玻璃娃娃的藏友們他本身通過了ICF的鑑定 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3700.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3723.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
也就是它事實上是重度障礙的可是沒有辦法通過你們的CNS因為這個CNS評估說它是健康那就讓民眾無法理解所以我覺得本席是認為說衛福部是不是要先解決你們很多的評估CNS CDR ICF ADL IADL的各種評估相互競合的問題你怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3727.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3751.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這幾個這麼多的不同的那你們這邊有這麼多的那你看評估又不一樣喔那就像我剛剛講這個成果部全證一個評估說他健康一個評估說他重度腸臟那他到底可不可以用腸臟呢報告 包委員威強委員確實也點出一個重點現在目前就是說這個評估的量表非常多不過我也跟委員報告現在就是說就個案的本身而言他的病程其實在每個階段都會有他不同的這個變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3754.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3765.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
就是他的整個這個他的病程的發展的階段其實事實上還是 可是不會落差這麼的大因為一個評估事實上是重度產生 一個事實上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3766.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3788.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
健康我覺得這落差太大了但我們承認有時候病程不一樣可是他本身的狀態他本來就是玻璃瓦花那所以我覺得你們是不是要去討論一下這評估量表之間的落差度跟進口那另外就是針對於我們的身臟的日照跟長照日照整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3788.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3811.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
去年我就提過了照顧人員資格的問題我們有跟你們就交就是衛博部那時候表示說照顧服務人員定義要放寬納入照顧服務員 照保員跟生活服務員不去干涉各項職別的高低因為去年有發生過一些問題所以要去修正我們的長照服務人員訓練認證繼續教育跟登錄辦法請問一下進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3815.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3843.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
報告委員 我知道委員一直以來都對這個問題非常關心 那我覺得確實這是一個痛點所以我們也根據委員的一個建議 我們現在目前已經在預告我們現在目前已經進入到預告階段 那收集各方意見之後 我想我們就是委員的建議非常好 我們要朝這個方向 我們來推進因為這些人都待在機構裡面 他們真的不太一樣 他們的權益會受到損傷那另外就來問是2023年的話 平均每位照顧服務員的照顧人數是 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3844.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3850.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
平均10.8位個案合理的話事實上是5到7所以這已經超過了可是超過以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3851.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3874.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
你的平均喔那台北市苗栗縣雲林縣澎湖縣基隆市新竹市金門連江縣都高過平均數位所以就要想來問部長幾個問題第一個照顧產業的人事成本大概佔六成以上長照就是人力密集的產業當下人力顯然是不足的話政府怎麼去因應這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3875.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3901.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
包委員我想我們現在目前在整個3.0裡面有三個主要的策略第一個其實主要事實上還是薪資跟這一個勞動條件的一個改善第二個其實最重要事實上沒錯舉世皆然整個照顧服務其實上是一個level intensive是一個高度高度需要勞動力所以這個部分我們主要是希望未來能夠引進這個輔具就是說整個輔具的這個引進能夠來大量引來減輕他的這個他的比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3902.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3928.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
對 沒錯 譬如說現在機構裡面像有關於這個洗澡機這一個的使用第三個跟委員報告我們未來會在整個這個造福園裡面我們事實上是會有分級就是說有高階 有資深 中階 低階然後未來我們也會有一個整個跟這個部分公使彼此之間一個多元的一個交錯的一個策略來解決我們現在人力的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3929.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3935.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
人力事實上還有個錢的問題就是居家服務的照顧服務員的薪資目前月薪是3萬2 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3937.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3960.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那時薪是200政府有調新的規劃嗎報告委員我們現在目前這個部分我也有心知這個我們大家都非常關心那如果財政上如果可以允許我們當然會但是現在我也必須要報告委員我們現在目前其實居福的部分我想要舉一個最簡單的數據在2.0的時候其實當時是25433我們在去年已經突破10萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3966.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3990.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
已經突破10萬了那這個人數增加表示就是說我也跟各位報告他在這一個2.0在1.0的時候平均薪資是25K到現在已經是4萬所以這個事實上薪資事實上是在調升當中那也也顯見就是說他事實上是一個居福事實上是一個未來有前景的一個產業是那我們這個部分意思是說現在目前就是沒還沒有規劃到這邊後邊要看財政的狀況是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3991.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4015.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我們會透過各項的一個整個這一個機制也會在也會跟部長部長其實也非常非常關心這個部分他也一直在強調其實要讓我們的這個長照做得好其實事實上整個薪資我們在財政允許的部分我們一定會來全力來推動好的那政府鼓勵我們的住宿型機構提供長照科系的學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4016.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4022.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
有實習的機會來提高我們的留用率那請問取得照顧服務員資格的實習生實習過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4024.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4046.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
得以占機構人力比嗎 這件事有確定嗎我們已經確定了 在本國的這部分我們已經確定了我們也認為這個事實上是應該推動的方向如果沒有得到兆福園資格的實習生占部分人力比目前的研議狀況如何包委員這個部分恐怕就我們現在暫時覺得可能是有疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4048.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4067.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那長遠來看的話衛福部將擴大住宿型機構的移工的聘僱人數可是蘭嶺移工的聘僱跟產業類的移工事實上是競爭人數成長有限那中階的技術人力跟在台的留學生人數也有限所以對此衛福部有什麼對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4067.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4091.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
包委我們就是陳虎剛剛說的我們未來那個人力裡面除了我們的這個薪資提高之外來流入本勞之外另外我們也會從新南向國家就剛剛說的中介勞動力我們會來加強引進那從去年開始已經從這個越南已經有引進那我們今年也會開始從印尼這邊那他只要在這邊服務滿6年那他就可以取得我們的永居 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4092.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4101.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我們就要再問一個 居服員大多數是反對機構聘僱移工的衛福部對此有開放移工的規劃嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4103.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4123.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
居府的部分現在目前還沒有居府的部分目前還沒有我們也知道本國我們的這個居府員他是現在這個疑慮但這部分我們當然我們只限住宿的部分而已因為住宿特別是夜間夜間人力的部分所以現在居府的這一塊沒有居府的部分我們是以目前我們現在就是本國 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4125.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4149.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
但是我跟委員報告 現在就是說 但是機構的部分確實在夜間的部分這個我想本國的這一個居服員他可能有一些偏好的問題所以這個部分我們就是優先我們會從這個外籍的中階勞動力來補儲這個部分那再來問 數數型機構量能不足沒有辦法滿足10萬人的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4150.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4172.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以政府持續對於公社興建跟公社協力的興建機構做補助去年中旬就有從事長照服務的盈利單位股票上市這是市場自然發生的趨勢之一可是一直以來礙於老服法的三不政策住宿型機構未能納入到長照支付的對象包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4172.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4191.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
健保在宅醫療支付項目都受到限制所以想問衛福部面對到我們這種日漸多元的市場經營模式的話實在有必要調整以非營利為主的政策方向來建立適度的引入我們的營利機構服務量能的方法對此政府有沒有什麼樣的規劃包委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4192.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4210.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
其實我們在整個49床以下我們在在宅那個部分其實平時提升計畫裡面那邊我們事實上是有的這是第一跟委員說明一下那至於您剛剛所說的就是未來有關於這個機構的部分我們會未來我覺得49床其實也是我們非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4210.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4236.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
的一個未來3.0非常重要的一個省立軍因為他的加速也事實上夠多那我們未來要建構一個10分鐘照顧圈我覺得一定是這個49床以下這個機構一定要一定要一定要進來所以我們也會加強這部分的一個整個補助跟輔導好最後就請部長是不是可以針對我接下來這3.0的強烈建議希望政策方向請拜託跟人民說明清楚讓人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4236.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4260.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
充分的去了解 否則很多民軍團體也在猜到底你們的政策細節內容到底是什麼還有評估量表呢 相互轉換的時候這樣子的話會減少不同服務間重新評估的次數也沒有必要因為各種這麼多的量表 而且評估出來的那個最後的結果也不太一樣還有人力空缺 我覺得禁書要提出解方 沒有人力大家就沒有長照 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4261.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4283.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
移工雇主住宿型機構使用者要給予服務的公平對待還有希望你能夠建立長照制度跟營利機構之間的合作模式我想部長不知道這幾項是不是可以在一個月後大概給我一些你們後來做的做法的報告好的沒問題好謝謝部長謝謝林委員謝謝部長次長好接下來我們請陳欽慧委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4296.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4314.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
謝謝主席 謝謝各位委員 官員的出席然後請邱部長 謝謝好 部長我們先來看一個影片然後想要看您是否認同 請助理撥一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4316.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4332.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
五個縣市首長也發出聯合聲明呼籲禁用瘦肉精拒吃毒豬牛如果說為了當總統然後犧牲人民的健康作為交換的條件那我想乾脆不要當也罷了市民 國人都不會肯定也都不會支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4334.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4353.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
因為上次我們其實經過這個美國關稅的這個質詢嘛你也不斷一再的提到說國人的健康是你第一個標準所以像賴總統這樣子的態度你是不是認同也會遵守我想我非常支持當時賴總統當時所提的要照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4357.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4386.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
全民的一個食安這個立場跟方向是完全正確的好那我們現在就來看一下目前國人蠻在意的幾個點上次我們有列出一個英文的官方這個提到我們台灣的非關稅壁壘有好幾項是他們在意的其中就包括標示產地嘛因為我們會希望有知的權利而且你們食安五環不斷的在強調溯源的重要性但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4386.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4400.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
他長期認為我們標示進口豬牛的產地就是一個目前很可能在關稅戰會談判到的一個問題那你是不是可以為我們據理力爭來守護我們國人的健康呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4401.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4426.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
好 守護國人的健康是我們的責任那在食安方面的方面委員隨行 我請那個署長不用不用不用 我請部長因為這個是有政治責任的所以我們還是由部長來回答上次我很幫部長還有署長說話因為關稅戰最後如果我們沒有堅守一些國人健康相關的話那是誰來負責嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4428.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4454.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
因為剛總統有講到說如果為了犧牲國人健康他不做總統也罷我們上次我就有講到啦我說是談判辦公室要負責談判辦公室要下台外交部要下台總統要下台行政院長要下台還是我們的衛福部官員好 我想我們這個產地的標示不管是國內國外是一體私用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4455.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4481.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
所以你會在這個標示上退讓嗎因為當這個他的非關稅貿易壁壘他最強調的就是比如說以前有些角落我們不接受或者是說他希望不要再查場了那或者是說標示產地這個部分我只想知道說萬一後面我們有所退讓的話請問負起政治責任的人是誰啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4483.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4507.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
我想不管是哪一位政府的官員一定我們的共識就是要守護人民的食安當然最重要就是說要有一個科學的根據標示產地有什麼 標示產地而已我剛剛講得很清楚 我講的是標示產地我們有依法 而且是有法律的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4509.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4514.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
一體的適用我們就按照這樣來執行這個沒有什麼退讓不退讓的問題這個都要堅持的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4517.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4538.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
所以你會堅持標示產地其實大家只想知道原來的規定我們怎麼樣的規定我們原本的規定好那再來這個是非常非常多家長最近有在擔心所以我也把這個疑慮提出來我們現在少子化嘛因此每個人家裡可能只有一個小孩大部分都只有一個小孩他們非常重視營養午餐是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4541.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4564.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
有知的權利還有知道是不是有選擇的權利也有很多人他們是更相信台灣的農產品那當然現在家長就會擔心啦因為我們看到說怎麼關稅團一團變成這個匯率一直台幣不斷在升值大家也覺得很害怕所以裡面有一段就在講說希望可以基改美國的這些基改食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4566 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4581.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
開放到校園營養午餐的這一點也是他們的關稅壁壘裡面那我在這邊提醒您因為這個您還記得齁四年前我們地方政府為了學校的午餐自治條例中想要訂定不得驗出以行受體 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4582.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4609.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
素還有不得使用肉品原料來源非國產之各式肉類加工品都得不到我們中央部會的支持反而要跟行政院打官司那為什麼要打官司如果你想得起來的話2020年的時候包含您在內絕對多數執政黨的席次封殺了學校衛生法第23條修正新增我剛講到的禁止使用以行獸體素還有肉品及加工品的這個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4612.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4630.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
當時呢您在這邊也是跟陳時中部長一搭一唱說透過行政辦法就可以規範了結果你看關稅站他這個宣布32%以後端出來的這個官方文件裡面我們上次一起看英文的那一份他就有講到說飛機感的禁令 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4631.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4653.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
恐怕現在很多家長是怕被消失啊所以我是想問部長的立場我想問部長的立場 如果未來有其他的委員因為我現在知道藍綠白的委員都有提出關於學校營養午餐的這些版本喔都有提出版本裡面也蠻強調基改的請問你會站在什麼立場 你會跟當時的陳時中部長一樣嗎我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4658.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4685.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那個不管說什麼食物我們當然就要比較各種也許他是怎麼樣做怎麼樣的方式製造的都要比較他的一個安全性這是最重要的我們用科學的方法因為這件事情我去查了美國美國兒科醫學會的說法美國兒科醫學會他說因為他沒有長期的追蹤所以這些基凱食品還沒有辦法證實對孩子有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4686.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4712.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
或沒有影響但是他說有疑慮的就不要做這個選擇所以我從前面就講得很清楚了我們現在的家長在意的是透明知道有選擇而不是被硬塞那你因為身為衛生主管機關的大家長所以會不會因為外交部的關係怕這個禁令孔是被消失啊在這個議題上你可不可以跟家長們站在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4714.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4729.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我們衛福部的立場是依法除了鎖住安全以外當然就是依法行政那如果有特定的場所給予特殊的考量依舊食安法相關的規定給予限制流通我想我們行政部在衛福部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4732.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4748.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我希望未來我們不要看到當時您跟陳時中部長說透過行政辦法就可以規範所以不需要修法這件事情也謝謝部長今天在這邊給我們的承諾再來我們要稍微問一下因為部長今年您會出席WHA嗎會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4750.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4767.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我有看到你有很頻繁的在投書那我們要如何具體的讓台灣幫助到世界那目前呢這個是去年的11個友邦還有26個國家發言幫助我們嘛請問今年你有掌握嗎今年你掌握到的是會比較多會不會比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4770.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4797.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我想我們努力的會讓他更多我想非常感謝陳委員的提案去年陳委員也參加四島團在那邊一起奮鬥非常有成就讓國際間對台灣非常非常的很良好的印象我想這樣的力量 量能我們今年一定會努力好 那去年呢我有跟你做了一小段的質詢我們現在播放一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4799.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4825.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
因為我跟王振旭委員有去參觀醫會我有去參觀當地的醫院結果當地的醫院很多醫生告訴我們說你認不認識比如說陳世安認不認識某某某這些都是全球在某一個醫療技術上做到尖峰會列進國際教科書的人他們說假使這些台灣之光都可以跟著一起來的話所有在場的醫生都很願意去聽他們演講跟學習所以其實我們有很多東西可以跟國外分享的這也是你可以善用的資源之一因為我看我們做遊行我們這個遊行非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4825.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4841.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
大家的訴求應該是一致結果你看我們的舉牌亂七八糟有這個政治性的國企然後有這個立法院的事情然後也有WHO那個很混亂啦其實外國人也搞不清楚你的訴求到底是什麼你是要建立一個國家還是你是要爭取台灣的能監督還是你要加入WHO但是既然大家都到國外就應該要團結一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4841.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4867.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我覺得我們先是一定要列入在這邊來發揮我也很感謝衛福部跟外交部這次大家一起辛苦的上次有具體的給您一些建議嗎因為我們現場有很多實體活動但看來看去常常都是自己人在參加我們應該要去思考的是怎麼擴大讓別人真的主動來找我們上次我也給您很具體的建議比如說陳詩安陳詩安她創造了一個台北approach你知道解決心率不整 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4867.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4884.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
所以有至少20個國家曾經求他求他去那邊教當地的心臟醫學會改變他們自己的臨床指引然後教學所以瑞士的醫生跟我講說如果你找陳詩安來一定超多人過來聽你們演講 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4885.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4903.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
因為大家求之不得啊他要走遍所有的國家嘛然後或者是你最熟悉的陳靜心啊陳靜心救了一萬八千個肺癌的病人後來因為他救治這些病人改變了我們台灣追蹤肺腺癌的指引這些你今年來不來得及來不及你要不要明年做 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4904.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4923.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
包委員您提的建議我們真的非常謝謝肯定跟一定要這樣做我們也拜託各個專科醫學會在平常就會做好一個聯繫所以他們在這個部分幫國家做了很多那今年我們也希望要更多的人但是我們國外的理會 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4923.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4947.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
不好意思被刪了六成所以我們今年的團少了十個人十個專家所以我們去年其實是相當要什麼人才有什麼人才但是我們一定會全力來付保持去年的量能那我們還是拜託部長我希望改變的是做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4948.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4955.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
然後人數上雖然有所限制現在已經很核心了現在所有的人都是必須要去做外有一點點做國際外交的人那自己專家的話我們很鼓勵如果真的自己有機會的話能夠來加入我們都歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4967.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4987.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
好我很希望未來你們稍微改變一下做法因為去年你也覺得說我們長期以來似乎沒有什麼太大改變那最後因為這題是基層醫療希望我可以問的不好意思主席我再三分鐘這個護理呢三班戶病比的這個問題我們當時說提出這個政策是為了提高護理人員增聘7500位 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4989.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5016.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那醫學中心預計新增3545區醫院3455地區醫院582人那我想問一下衛福部因為你們做這個公告的時候醫院其實就已經開始改變他們的醫療環境啊開始增聘人力因為每個人都希望可以得到這個護病比獎勵所以我只是想知道說具體你們發布了這個獎勵制度後成效如何因為你有幫自己設定希望增加多少多少多少所以到目前請問不知道你有這個數據嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5018.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5024.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這個我們非常努力在進行是不是請市長幫忙回答一下謝謝我們現在在那個監測人力是用每年近增加多少以及因為護理師的那個人力有季節性所以我們會有每年的同期來比較那目前比如說現在4月底我們護理人力大概增加了3600 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5044.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5062.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那醫院是增加1450左右所以你還沒有區分是醫學中心地區你還沒做區分那我現在記得我現在完整的記得的是整體的那那個比例上是以醫學中心增加我可能會後再跟您要這個增減的那個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5063.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5082.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
下一個是護理師他們現在非常非常在意的因為之前可能曾經有獎勵的這些專款撥進來結果不夠透明也沒有公開所以他們現在很關心衛福部會怎麼做比如說你多久會公佈怎麼公佈公佈的頻率跟形式因為他們想知道他們的醫院到底是實際獲得多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5084.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5101.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
然後這些錢是怎麼分給大家的有沒有每一筆都花到員工的身上因為你是很籠統的說獎勵資訊要公開啦於院內公開公查詢並主動說明什麼等等這個是有點小含糊所以大家還是會很擔心所以希望我在這邊可以詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5103.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5120.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
好如果是本來就說要給護理同仁的那個一定絕對不能打折那如果整個醫院院內的一個給院內那院內怎麼分配我們當然也有規定譬如說這三班分泌我們就是要以白一班的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5122.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5141.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
護理人員的一個補助的優先這個已經把辦法寫清楚了所以未來護理師可以他們自己可以查得到說我們醫院因為獎勵領到多少錢這個都會是透明的我們會要求NNA完全公告 透明的好好 謝謝 謝謝而且會將網站來公開好 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長那繼續請王一民委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5157.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5159.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
謝謝主席 我們是不是有請邱部長還有食藥署的署長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5166.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5189.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
部長這個澳洲的萊豬一來再來讓國人現在對於豬肉食品產生了恐慌其實從2020年當時去訂定這個萊豬的相關管理措施到去年為止豬肉儀表板上面沒有任何有萊劑的豬肉進到台灣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5191.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5204.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
但是今年完全破功了而且是接二連三的來這樣子的一個情況衛福部的態度其實讓大家看了 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5205.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5217.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
覺得更心不安因為這個根據署長對外的說法來了就來了沒有關係一切呢這個吃了吃一輩子也不會怎麼樣這樣的一個說法跟國人對於來際的恐慌跟不安 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5223.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5235.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
事實上差距非常的遙遠面對這樣子的一個食安標準似乎在往下走在下降我要讓部長跟署長看一下現在的卓內閣不如蘇內閣當時在109年11月26號行政院他頒布了一個進口豬肉之全方位管理措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5248.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5271.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
當時的這個措施他第一點就要求從源頭管理沒有茶廠的肉品廠不准放行不准進口第一個我就要問請問現在澳洲含有萊劑的豬肉進到台灣來的這一些肉品廠你們茶廠了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5272.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5291.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
報告委員剛剛署長已經有跟大家報告過因為澳洲的進口豬肉是在之前就早年已經經過我國行政院農委會的防檢局承諾就是系統性的開放所以那個時候已經同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5292.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5313.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
109年11月26號行政院才頒布 頒布沒有茶廠的不准放行委員這邊做一點點 稍微補充那是因為在109年之前 行政院 農委會 防檢局其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5314.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5338.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
他就已經承諾系統性的開放基於信賴保護的原則所以就很早很早就開放所以接下來如果委員有這樣子的要求或者希望我們也可以積極來辦理我要求現在澳洲的部分因為已經三批都已經驗出有萊劑了所以他的飼養方式他的相關的豬肉廠你們如果沒有去查場 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5339.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5368.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
這個根本就直接放行進來這是有問題的所以第一個我的要求就是你們要先暫緩澳洲的豬肉的進口因為他是沒有經過查場的所以沒有經過查場你要回到109年行政院所公告的沒有查場的你就不准進口嘛那你現在是沒有查場先進口啊結果發現他這個已經連續三批都有來濟了基於食安更嚴格的標準你的行政權你是可以先暫緩進口的可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5369.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5391.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
跟委員做這邊報告剛才特別提到農業部房檢局其實在很久以前100年以前就是常態性的進口我們基於信賴保護的原則因為你現在查出萊劑了那還有萊劑啊全世界跟委員報告全世界可以允許豬肉裡面使用萊劑的國家呢其實有27個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5392.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5409.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我知道其他國家我們有我們的標準嘛109年行政院的標準就是這樣子嘛而且從109年到去年為止包括肉品廠商沒有進口含有來借肉品來到台灣嘛那你今天發現澳洲他們現在在飼養過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5411.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5416.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
萊劑有添加然後你們沒有去查過場從109年到現在從來沒有去查過場所以你們應該要重新啟動這個就是你食藥署對於民眾食安的一個把關的標準這個有這麼難辦到嗎在委員這邊做簡單的報告可不可以去查查對整個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5430.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5456.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
豬肉牛肉管制是我們是一致啦所以這豬肉其實我們有2493批我們驗到都有微量檢出這從101年 署長我現在問你的產地茶廠你澳洲到底要不要去茶廠你就告訴大家我們這邊可以作為進一步的去做辦理可是基於性愛保護原則的其實對於這些我們是允許他們國家也是同意我們允許相關的使用的好 那我要求你你至少要去茶廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5457.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5486.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
茶廠你一定要做到這是你食藥署應該要做的事情第二件事情逐批茶宴在109年裡面行政院對國人的承諾是進口豬肉必須逐批茶宴結果到目前為止現在2023年你們已經下降到2到10%了這件事情下降的比例這麼快現在又發現含有萊克多巴胺的肉品你們要不要回到逐批茶宴的這個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5487.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5512.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
跟委員報告就剛剛我提到的其實有肉品你也含到萊克多巴胺的加上豬的我們有2493加三件的所以對於這樣子的我其實很驕傲要跟委員報告一下所以我們邊境有一個BPI很驕傲這幾個字您可能要小心抱歉因為我們很認真因為同仁很認真做了所謂的BPI所以邊境的我們的人工智慧導入的預測系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5513.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5527.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那對於沒有違規的產品其實我們會降低對於違規產品會做精準的檢驗跟抽驗所以我們這邊可以跟委員報告我們特別還是要推銷一下我們的Border Protection Intelligence目前按照這個比例來進行這個很聰明 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5530.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5548.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
容我提醒你在你們的食安的查驗標準裡面你們的食品及相關產品輸入查驗辦法裡面所謂的要不要百分之百逐批查驗它其中有一項是查驗機關認為有必要予以逐批查驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5549.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5574.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
就可以煮批查驗在第九條第十條加強這個抽批查驗也一樣查驗機關認為有必要的時候就可以實施事實上賦予食藥署非常大的行政權就是要你們去守護國人的食安但是我覺得你們今天在萊克多巴胺的這個議題上面跟國人的認知差距非常的遙遠當國人是恐慌的時候你不但告訴國人說吃這個是安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5577.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5596.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
當過去都沒有萊豬進來現在被驗出有萊劑的豬肉的時候你還是覺得沒有關係我不需要提高我的逐批查驗這樣的做法我只能告訴署長你沒有辦法安民心過去你們在查一些食安的風暴食安事件你們是怎麼做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5597.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5613.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
一旦發現之後你們會去提高邊境的抽驗的比例你們在下游會大幅的去稽查就是要安民心讓大家知道說有公權力在有中央在所以大家安心但是很抱歉我必須講這一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5615.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5629.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
來租進來之後你們給外界的態度是沒有關係什麼都沒有關係沒有採取任何行動作為要不要公佈流向說不用公佈要不要逐批查驗說不需逐批查驗那請問我們鑰匙鑰匙所做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5633.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5661.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們要食藥署是你要維持原來國人對於食安的標準要給國人信心但是你都不作為的情況底下國人只會越來越恐慌所以你過去在查蘇丹紅事件你看你們是怎麼做的過去食安事件你們是怎麼做的那你現在是通通不作為到目前為止你沒有要改變任何的做法所以呢就是澳洲的含有萊劑的豬肉可以持續進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5661.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5688.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
然後現在已經到了268公噸了其中有三分之一都含有萊劑未來不停止他進口繼續進口繼續流入市面而且流入市面呢而且可以不標示你覺得民眾會不恐慌嗎民眾可以有選擇權吧我可以選擇我不要吃到含有萊劑的這個豬肉吧但是在你們現行的管理辦法裡面沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5689.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5698.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
就會通通流入市面了流入到後端的加工食品廠他需不需要標示在你們現在對外的說明是不用標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5699.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5723.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以就混著他可以魚目混豬大家吃下去都沒有關係這個就是今天我要告訴你們的事實上食藥署是有工具有方法的我再讓你看食食品衛生管理法22條在22條第一項裡面他講了非常多的食品添加物通通都要標出來包括基改食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5724.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5746.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
也要標出來 這個是立法院後來的修法因為國人對於食安的標準越來越嚴格所以我們現在買到任何的加工食品連一個飯糰 你拿到背後所有的食品標示清清楚楚有什麼原料 什麼成品 什麼添加物一清二楚 這個是為什麼因為民眾有知的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5748.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5774.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
但是在萊劑的這一條裡面你現在告訴大家萊劑也不用標肉品含萊劑通通都不用標那這個合理嗎請問萊劑跟基改食品他們對於人體的所造成影響跟傷害如果連營養都要標食品添加物要標含基改食品的原料要標含有萊劑就是這一項肉品裡面含有萊劑不用標嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5776.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5792.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
豬牛其實一體適用那2493筆我們從來沒有標過的牛肉裡面我容我再提醒你你一直要把牛放進來講你是忽略了國人的食品的食用跟豬肉在國內加工食品的應用範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5793.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5819.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
牛肉沒有豬肉那麼廣 這個是為什麼過去大家在談這個議題的時候就是牛肉它比較簡單 你只要標產地 大家就會知道但是豬肉不一樣 豬肉它的應用範圍 它做成貢丸 做成水餃 它做成滷肉飯它只要一加工之後 它就是化整為零整個出去了這個就是我們的國情不同 你不能一直把牛肉跟豬肉擺在一起看 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5820.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5835.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
牛肉在台灣很多人也不吃牛肉所以在豬肉的這個部分他應該是要採取一個更嚴格讓大家更安心的做法但是現在你對外說不公不留下其實很多人很恐慌 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5836.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5850.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
報告委員萊克多巴胺對一個科學家來說以及我希望我把我的食品安全以及獨立學教授我臨床醫師的觀點來帶給國人是他的化學是一樣在豬牛所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5851.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5872.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
它的結構跟效應是一樣的 第一件事情第二個 位於臨床醫師其實職業已經30年從來沒有遇到一位萊克多巴胺的豬肉或者牛肉的到急診裡面就醫的那這個部分呢 其實我們知道所以我如何把安全經過這麼完整的視頻安全風格分析全世界的科學家共同努力台灣的這麼多人的心理指控 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5873.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5897.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
不要去告訴農業部對 進一步去做完之後呢把這個安全我希望我能夠把安全轉換成安心讓國人安心我願意當一個安心的署長讓大家能夠安心我希望能夠往這邊的對 署長我必須告訴你現在國人不安心所以你現在當不了安心的署長因為國人的反應是最直接的那你要理學那一塊專業我尊重但是你忽略了一個在國內我們國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5899.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5920.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
的養殖 我們的農業部是完全禁止乙型受體素的它是犯法的 它是要被罰錢的你認為在國人的認知裡面我們的豬跟牛在養殖過程完全不准添加的東西你今天進口的裡面肉品含有這個萊克多巴胺你要我吃下肚你認為國人的認知會是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5921.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5948.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
所以你的專業那一套我完全尊重但是在國內你可以看到是農業部它是禁止以行獸體塑的那國人的情感你要不要尊重我非常尊重我的情感一切都是國家至上人民優先的想法如果是這樣子的話我覺得你們目前為止對於萊豬的管制事實上你們有更多的工具現在是業者他自己發現進口到有萊雞的豬肉他要道歉他要銷毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5949.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5964.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
結果我們的中央食藥署說沒有關係這個是國人沒有辦法接受就是你的標準比業者還要鬆那你有很多的管制工具之前在蘇貞昌院長的時候他們就跟肉品廠商已經達成共識了就是進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5965.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5967.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
沒有萊劑的豬肉進到台灣來而且施行這麼多年沒有破功那你今年是破功了我覺得這件事情你有很多的行政手段可以讓人民不要那麼的恐慌包括我剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5979.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6007.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
逐批抽驗也是你可以做的然後源頭茶廠也是你可以做的嚴格的把這個標示適時的去公佈流向只要它含有萊劑你有責任讓消費者知道這個也是你可以做的這個都是我們的行政權而且真的可以讓民眾安心也代表你衛福部在把關我覺得這些事情部長你們真的要考慮一個行政單位未有這麼大的權力就是幫人民服務這個部長你回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6007.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6016.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
好,謝謝委員,我想所以委員的指教,那我們一定是在科學的分析跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6017.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6042.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
國際的標準定出來的規定之下來力求剛剛委員提出很多的行政的措施我們利用這些行政措施來力保我們的國人真的是在死的方面能夠真的放心好我就是要求你要回到行政院109年自己所公告的進口豬肉全方位管理措施全面的落實這樣國人才可以心安 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6042.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6064.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
特別跟委員這邊做報告因為目前之前在做食品安全特別有做食品安全風險分析以及食品安全的管理在有台大的摩克斯的課程也在這個機會給全國的擔心的民眾跟委員這邊有機會可以可以一起來去看一下我做的一系列的一些課程那對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6065.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6080.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
深刻的了解之後或許可以讓我們心更安我希望我們的風險感知 risk perception 的部分經過我們溝通之後讓大家能夠漸漸安心下來我還是希望我能夠當一個安心的署長謝謝委員好 要民眾認可才可以啦不是自己講的好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝王委員 謝謝部長這個兩個平行線啊好 邱曾經委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6099.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6110.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請江署長安心署長很驕傲的署長剛剛講很驕傲 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6116.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6140.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
蘇長好報告委員謝謝委員我覺得今天食藥署該檢討的不是只有澳洲豬腳的檢驗驗出萊克多巴胺的這件事情我們應該是要檢討整個我們的食安把關的一個原則你身為食品安全守門人但是在萊豬擴關成功的時候你在記者會講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6142.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6149.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
讓人很錯愕啦因為你的回應一直在穿越時空在打民進黨的臉我們先看一下影片好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6164.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6179.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
在高達有八成的民力反對之下仍然要來開放美國含有瘦肉精的肉品進口本黨堅決反對這個瘦肉精是為了增加商業的一個利益這些添加物根本就不需要與沒有必要存在這個食物裡面更不必要讓民眾來直接去承擔健康的一個風險民進黨團再次重申 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6179.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6197.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
只有零减除 瘦肉精只有零减除不要 让瘦肉精放大量的东西比较强迟疑政策后是专门的国际领域将能力健康至于未知的东西感觉你觉得我当傻瓜 但是我不想当傻瓜我们台湾人不是笨蛋全国上下一条心 行政部门 立法部门 民间团体大家团结起来像美国人要求说我们要跟欧洲人一样吃到没有瘦肉精 没有灰热膜 那我们等鸡等牛肉 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6198.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6226.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
對於所有的作品絕對不能含有瘦肉精的立場跟態度我們維持一貫的這個原則我沒有辦法接受玩弄民意以及玩弄國民的健康我沒有辦法接受這樣的政府這樣的政府有點像炸黑吉他為了一個政治籌碼或是過去的一個政治交易來忽略掉國民的健康使用署這邊不會硬性規定要公佈有進口萊豬的廠商或人事偶像嗎根據食安法的規定其實不合格的也是要公佈你合格的公佈那大部分都合格了你就公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6228.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6229.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好 組長 剛剛那些人你都認識啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6232.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6261.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這幾位有些還在立法院這些人有跟你抗議過嗎?郭委員你說吃一輩子都不會吃屎的這個說法當初民進黨的檢驗標準是零檢出那影片裡面就有兩位好像馬上要競爭台南市長的委員當時的賴清德市長以捍衛食安的決心以前他捍衛食安的決心是非常非常堅定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6262.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6286.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那現在想要當賴清德接班的這兩個遊客有沒有跟你表示跟委員這邊做報告剛才那個是在美牛的時代美牛時代世界Codex還沒有訂出標準所以我覺得當時還沒有那麼清楚的情況下有這樣子的一個論述我都保有尊重98年我們12月9號賴清德當時的立委要求國民黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6287.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6307.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
主動順應民意禁止獨牛進口在當天民進黨團為了美牛修法也包圍了我們立法院的主席台101年2月9號賴清德市長說執政者不能棄守國人健康那101年2月16賴清德市長就說他在台南市率先執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6309.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6323.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這個禁用瘦肉精 拒吃毒豬牛的政策他說 即使是美國也要尊重我們台灣的國情若硬要用萊克多巴胺就是不尊重台灣的老百姓你還記得他講的這些話嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6325.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6349.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
報告委員 我想當時的時空背景世界還沒有標準標準都一樣的嘛標準那時候還沒有定 Codex 還沒有定標準所以在那樣時空背景如果配合我的課程的課去上完之後對於到現在已經經過十幾年會有新的一個體會跟體驗我們耐心的總統當時還嗆我們的總統說他說如果為了要當總統然後犧牲人民的權益那不如不要當啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6350.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6376.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
對不對那我們現在總統有告訴你驗出這個這個來這個來劑他接受嗎我想他有告訴你嗎在萊克多巴胺被開放了一個是在前馬英九前總統的牛肉的開放目前有兩千四百九十三批也有驗到微量其中六批有超標我們把它退運了銷毀豬肉的部分呢從驗了之後有三批那是在一百一十年蔡總統的時候開放蔡總統也講過啊政府做不來就下台嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6380.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6408.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
他的標準你認為你要不要下台對於現在因為我們國家法令上面已經訂定說萊克多巴胺可以在豬肉牛肉裡面有參與的標準有這個標準如果標準超標的我們會推如果沒有銷毀的話就應該在記者上的回應我想請問一下就我們對食安法的認知這食安法立法的精神它是保護消費者還是廠商還是未來拿來當談判的籌碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6410.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6438.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
郭委員是以全民的國家至上全民優先的食品安全的食安優先的想法那人民現在會恐慌你知道嗎剛剛都很多人在講這件事情他的原因就是不確定性跟這個未知性他知道我們應該讓他剛剛我們玉敏委員有講到我們要讓人民他有選擇的權利所以我認為你們說這個一直到現在都不願意公佈流向這個原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6439.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6456.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
報告委員因為我們現在面對的是檢驗進來是合格的廠商規定是經過我們大院以及行政部門裡面訂定的他們沒有違規的情形之下它現在驗出來沒有違規嗎它沒有違規 它是檢出違規是0.01ppm以上你在記者會上說如果都要公佈就公佈不完現在驗出只有3p不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6467.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6493.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
對 因為還有牛的牛會有兩千多匹我想說對於合格的廠商我們豬肉可以在我們那個那個豬肉魚表板上看到嘛那牛要在哪裡看對 因為牛沒有牛肉魚表板因為當初的背景上面沒有這個其實如果沒有豬肉魚表板豬肉應該是會很安心的牛肉跟那個牛雜碎驗出兩千四百九十三匹退了六匹嘛 對不對六匹 銷毀跟退回嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6496.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6497.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那這個部分我們民眾要去哪裡看啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6499.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6527.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
這個部分其實是在我們的行政上面的因為沒有顯示出來它違規的其實我們就是審查你們四五月這個抽批這個率是多少你說我們現在抽批要邊境因為我們是用人工智慧的所謂人工智慧導入的實案預測抽檢我們希望是精準檢驗所以2%到10%原則上到底是幾%對它符合在標準的範圍我們抽批大概是在10%以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6529.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6549.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
對 那我記得剛剛也講到去年蘇丹紅事件我們本來也是2到10後來也改到百分之百嘛對 跟我有報告那個是怎麼調的他是因為他是違規的蘇丹紅是不得檢出是違規的我們就打XX了如果他是合規的我們其實是打圈就放心我們耐心的總統標準是0檢出 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6551.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6572.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那個在石東的背景底下,對於萊克多灣還沒有定所以經過這麼多年,我請有誰跟萊克多灣一起合作再交流你的專業我們當然是尊重,可是我們一直認為說你應該要把這個產地,或者是它裡面的一些規範就是它的產地的一些數字,要把它標示清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6574.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6584.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我們現在針對所有的豬肉不管國內國外我們都一體適用都有標示的在這邊跟委員做進一步的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6585.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6613.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
有標示產地嗎?原料的原產地一體試用國內國外的其實都有都有標示的?對都有標示的好那我在想啦因為現在查出這樣的一個問題我希望我們原來的機制就是說當我們的抽檢率它突然抽到非常多的時候我們的那些這個抽檢率就要繼續提高因為你剛剛講的你只抽10%那另外90%你沒抽嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6614.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6629.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
對 報告委員 因為這一次的總共三批其實在澳洲是同一個製造廠所以其實是一個所以我們雖然說它合格我們眼睛有偷偷增大增亮那你剛剛有沒有打算去看看像這樣驗出來的這個產地那我們以後還會讓它進來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6634.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6661.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
因為進口澳洲的廠商要進口選擇其實是來自於進口貿易商進口貿易商我們其實非常尊重他們我們設的標準之後按照這標準來做管理如果他們送來的東西都是常常出現問題的時候是不是我們應該剛剛我們幾個委員有講到要去茶廠看一下但關於這個茶廠部分剛才特別提到那是在農委會的時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6663.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6681.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
豬肉 澳洲豬肉就已經是進來了那基於信賴保護原則我們沒有再進一步的查場而且對豬肉廠在澳洲呢它是牛肉 豬肉 羊肉 鹿肉是一起的那個部分其實我們去查過場所以對於豬的部分那我請問一下我們現在如果有驗出來的我們有驗出來的話我們可不可以標示嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6686.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6713.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
呃 我們剛才提到的其實所有的所有的我們都當作是一體適用的產地的都會做標示不是 我是說有驗出這個萊克多瓦安的這個肉品我想齁 以我是行政的協助國安保安 使安的過程當中如果我設了一個標準 它是合格的不管啊 我把他標示出來你只要驗出來他有嘛那你就標示進去嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6713.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6741.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們國人要不要吃他權利啊我想跟委員報告一下因為如果在這個前提之下那我只要驗到草莓有什麼農藥的我就要標示草莓農藥可是它是合格的那其實國人看到更害怕更瘋狂怎麼會有農藥殘餘其實它會有殘餘其實是我們可以理解但是在我們的食品安全風險分析向下想盡辦法訂出一個殘留的標準這個殘留標準按照定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6742.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6755.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
劑量會決定毒性因為這個劑量因為現在大家聽到這個萊劑吼有含驗萊劑的肉品大家都恐慌啦吼那所以你們是要告訴大家這個萊劑是可以吃的我先委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6759.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6787.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
大家的恐慌很大一部分是對我在食品安全風險分析這種安全性上面的支持我希望以我的多年來的專業能夠把我的安全轉換成對民眾的安心我一定是以食安優先以人民的優先國家至上的原則來去希望我們站在維護國人這個食安的這個立場我希望我們大家來可以討論我覺得這個部分應該是可以討論希望大家來 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6788.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6792.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
研擬一套辦法讓我們的國人能夠安心那我再請部長一下部長請問一下關於外國學歷認證修法的問題你們認為變嚴格但是一屆一些團體認為你們是在放水那我覺得是不是我們來安排一場跟衛福部跟團體我們直接坐下來溝通你贊成嗎沒有問題可以啦我上任以來最 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6818.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6831.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
溝通最長的時間就是跟那個團體我想EOC家的媒體在旁邊直接播給全國播到最後媒體都一直撤了因為已經太累了這樣子至少有五部派代表好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6834.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6849.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我們非常樂意來互動而且已經解釋過很多次了如果還有擔心我們不能讓這些年輕的醫師擔心而且會有誤傳這樣也不好啦我們非常願意 謝謝謝謝教育委員 謝謝部長來 接續我們請林淑芬委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6860.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6888.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你感冒啦 別說太久啦好 謝謝召委 是不是請我們部長和署長江署長委員好 委員請多保重對 我也希望不要感冒 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6891.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6917.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
這個署長曾經在2021年說過當時是教授的身份嘛那以Codex的標準每天要吃6公斤的萊豬連續吃好幾年才會超標但這跟中毒優勢兩件事政府會把關請大家買豬肉食的時候要放輕鬆如果依照署長這個標準大概食安就是沒有食安的問題只有吃到毒物才會死的問題那我今天講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6918.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6941.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這六天裡面來從短短六天就有驗出三批來寄的這個豬肉產品雖然都在那個我們的標準裡面但六天就有三批其實我剛才有沒有提到有退回去的有幾批減出啦減出但沒鈔票有三批那有退關的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6943.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6960.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
從租業方面沒有都沒有好因為署長部長和署長要提醒你喔這個對於食安的態度要兢兢業業尤其是我自己做一個媽媽作為一個家庭裡面會開火的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6962.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6979.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
食安的把關者其實我的標準我個人的標準不是只有吃了會中毒吃了會有六毒的方向我自己個人是我不想要吃到那我想很多媽媽跟我一樣的心情 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6979.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6996.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那我們想的說那就是透明知的權利知的權利其實就是這樣子而已你其實對抗WTO的貿易架構就是這樣子你強迫我們開了邊界我們就讓你進來但我消費者可以不買啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6997.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7025.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
就是全體的世界貿易都一直都有這種情節啊你強迫我開放那我就是我可以選擇不吃不買但是國家要扮演什麼你沒有去標籤化它但是你不可以講說這個署長你丟了一句說沒見過有人吃萊克多巴胺牛肉中毒的用這種態度來善效擔心的民眾我覺得唯一不需要的是這樣子你應該想的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7026.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7050.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
人民真的很擔心因為我有選擇不吃的這個權利啊我自己因為每個人的健康管理風險都是每個人在負責的我不想要而我有慢性的我代謝疾病我慢性三高的所以這種狀況裡面你在講講得很得意洋洋說你們科學的方法在把關你們的這個border protection whatBPI你們在做什麼其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7054.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7064.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我們都希望有政府是邊境裡面源頭把關邊境如果六天就也撿到三批雖然沒有超標那有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7064.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7081.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
在邊境裡面其實就應該要把查驗的這個強度稍微提高一下加強邊境和後市場的稽查那你在這個過程當中你一直以幾個數據來告訴我們譬如說你的新聞稿寫2021年1月1號到2025年4月30邊境報驗的豬肉和豬雜碎共計兩萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7089.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7091.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
5466批110年到114年4月間後市場對進口及國產豬肉的產品共檢驗18501件檢驗這個萊克多巴胺結果皆合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7104.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7119.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
你是這樣寫的嘛但是我要問你是說你是不是應該公佈的不是這五年裡面我減了多少每一年你減多少因為我們知道剛開始的那一年減的數量是最多的也就是2021年110年減的批次最多那到2024、2025年其實都遞減了 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7130.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7144.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所以邊境抽驗的比例其實是大幅遞減的在用遞減裡面六天就檢驗出三批含有萊劑雖然沒有超標但是我們說如果在這個主管機關的立場你應該告訴大家說那我來加強邊境的把關我是不是要把抽驗的批次再增加一點當你增加了檢驗出來了覺得風險沒有增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7157.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7176.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那這樣子對人民才有交代啊而不是在這裡說吃了要吃沒多少啦這都合格吃不死啦我們的標準你的如果你要講科學數據科學分析那麼你應該把每一年減幾批公佈出來啊每一年啊讓我們看到從2021到2025是逐年遞減的你就不要糊弄我們用一個總的數據嘛所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7183.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7201.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
萊劑的安全容許量是一回事我們有標準也是一回事但我們也有不想吃到的權利所以不要以每天吃也不會死沒看到過有人因為吃萊劑而中毒這樣的說法太輕率了 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7203.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7226.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這個凸顯了官僚的心態以外也忽視了民眾對於自我健康管理的這個差異和我選擇的自由所以每個人的身體狀況不一樣代謝功能也不一樣你吃了沒事不代表我不會不舒服或不是或者是他不會生病可是我吃了就不舒服我就沒有辦法適應或是我就是根本就不想吃嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7230.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7256.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以民眾做飲食選擇的依據食安的標準從來都不該指示會不會吃了會不會死吃了以後會不會生病或者你上次罵我們的是知識的缺乏才會擔心不是不是你上次罵我上次質詢你罵我們的會擔心的都是因為知識的缺乏而非基於科學的風險評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7259.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7266.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我覺得這個態度才是最重要的不然說我吃不死啊我對食安的標準不是吃了會死的也不是說吃了會中毒的不是你要安人民的心啊沒錯你說得對對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7275.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7294.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
報告委員,我想我們都是天下父母親,我完全了解我們吃東西要怎麼吃,那署長他也是人家的天下父母親,但是他以他過去的...對啊,他是食藥署署長啊,你不可以做一個父母說,你快點吃,吃了就不會中毒,吃了就不會死,用這種標準來看待食安啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7297.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7323.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
他的意思是說用他的專業事實上如果真的希望讓大家安心好啦 署長你說什麼啦我剛剛講的 當你檢驗你邊境查驗逐年遞減而六天查到3P有減出雖然沒有超標但是不是應該要稍微提高一下你的邊境的抽驗原來你源頭把關好了不要流落到後市場去嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7324.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7324.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我們最討厭聽到業者自律 因為的確業者不可能自律 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7347.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7374.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
從所有食品安全破功我們都是建立在業者自律結果我們發現屢屢發現業者自律要求業者自律這個事情是不可能存在的都必須要他律啊對我的意思說這次呢業者自己跳出來說他不銷出去然後暫時都沒有要我是說他這個部分他要做這件事其實我們都尊重他們啊對啦我的意思是說你不應該告訴人民說這吃了沒中毒吃了沒死不是用這個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7376.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7400.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
報告委員我們對食安的標準不是這樣子我的意思是說對於食品安全的這個風險的評估裡面我們知道科學上的風險是什麼是是但我們要有知的權利我沒有說不定標準或是不准進來但我可以選擇不要不吃到不買對 我說所以我在也非常同意委員這邊的提點但你政府的責任是你必須要趕快掐牆查驗看看有沒有超標的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7406.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7430.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
你應該提高查驗的這個批次然後告訴我們超標的幾乎沒有雖然都有檢出但澳洲的全部都有檢出譬如說是不是這樣子讓我們有知道風險把關風險的能力要先有資訊啊我們針對這個抽驗的部分我們會持續的去做一些積極的評估我們也待會去做一些考量謝謝委員的支持好 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7433.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7441.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
因為你的數據其實也有一點玩弄你不敢講逐年遞減這種事好沒關係我來問一下長照的事情部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7444.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7468.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
這個台灣進入超高齡社會喔這個平均壽命是80.2男生76.9女生83.7那特別要強調這個數據是因為這個數據關係到整體長照的負荷和效能你從2.0要到3.0但是人力和裁員要同時到位因為他影響到服務的品質還有他的可敬性如果前端階段有效介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7468.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7496.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
那麼延後減緩進入長照體系的速度所以資源的配置要很精準要提升照顧的品質這個是制度設計的這個關鍵也是政策精準化的重要方向好 那我現在要跟你討論的是腦中風年輕化這件事腦中風年輕化我們的長照體系可以接得住這一群45歲以下就中風失能的人嗎 你回答我 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7498.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7503.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
45歲以下就失能的人 我們的長照有辦法接得住他們嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7505.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7529.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那報告委員這個也是很重要的議題所以我們在長照3.0會把這個部分你要怎麼接進去那個請次長回答一下非常感謝委員我想三個重點第一個我們現在3.0我們現在會來放寬就是說如果說有這一個有這個部分的話我們之前大概都是65歲以上對等等那些嘛那我們現在如果說有這個部分的話我們會來放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7531.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7551.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
主席要從年齡去放寬還是要從什麼資格因為你就室內的資格我跟委員報告其實主要是從我們住院那個PAC就是那個基金後期你都青菜公共幫委員這不是青菜公共我也知道就是現在目前中風確實有年輕化的現象你知道有多嚴重中風的人裡面幾個有一個是年輕人45歲以下你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7553.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7561.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
你知不知道以前中風的比例年輕人大概占5到6%現在到幾%你知道嗎你沒有去正視這個問題你連數據都沒有幾%你知道嗎中風的人裡面有幾%是年輕人啊45歲以下你不知道我告訴你不用叫他們給你數據了15到18%而且每七個就有一個是45歲以下而且45歲以下青壯年正值事業的巔峰啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7583.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7600.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
在這種狀況對家庭對他個人對整個社會的衝擊何其大那我們在講是說你知道而且都以哪一種中風有兩種出血型還有阻射型你知道年輕人的中風跟老年人的中風有沒有顯著的不一樣你知道嗎年輕人是出血型比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7601.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7630.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
年輕人是出血型比較多年老的人出血型中風只佔了兩成但年輕人的中風大概五六成都是出血性的中風而且男生佔了六七成我講男生而且都是家計負擔者這很重要所以這種狀況裡面他的代謝疾病很多人都不知道自己糖尿病不曉得自己高血脂都不知道自己有三高45歲以下誰會想到自己離死神有多遠或多近 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7631.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7646.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那我要問你是說 你剛剛講說PAC我現在問你 中豐的黃金復健期是多久半年好 那你的PAC要接觸的人有辦法接觸這一群嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7647.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7663.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
包委我們那個現在目前的做法是這樣現在就是在出院準備之後我們現在目前當然就是說我們現在一方面當然是縮短嘛對不對縮短之後然後現在我們也跟健保署這邊在加強加強合作就是說整個天數上面的那個縮短還有另外一個就是說我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7665.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7669.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
還有中介機構就是說你現在目前整個你要回到家中間呢我們現在也在輔導你們PAC從2014年開始做這個名稱叫腦中風急性後期的照護他要解決住院的天數的問題還有復健連續性的問題然後呢在急性後期的照護 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7688.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7706.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
進入穩定期以後轉介到復健的專門醫院在這種狀況裡面我們要講的是說他為什麼這個東西很好效果很好成效很好可是很多人沒有辦法使用的原因是在他的門檻很高他的門檻有多高你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7707.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7731.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
要使用PAC計畫必須個案本身體力需要承受大量密集的復健運動醫療團隊判斷需要具備積極復健的潛能者第一 要具備基本認知 學習能力和意願第二 要具備足夠的體力支撐下能於輪椅或船員至少維持一個小時的坐姿自己有辦法坐一小時的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7734.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7762.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我現在要說的是說能夠進入PAC計畫的腦中風患者相對的都是失能的程度沒有那麼嚴重的啦沒有那麼嚴重的所以你這一個條件沒有改變其實年輕人一中風失能程度嚴重他沒有辦法進入PAC啊甚至他沒有任何可以接住他們因為你長照服務的四大類型適用資格是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7763.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7782.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
幫您保證講一下包委員我們現在主要大概就是那個65歲以上CMS2-8另外就是我們原住民55歲還有那個還有身障身障還有50歲以上失智但是如果年輕的中風者要符合哪一個條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7783.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7798.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
請能夠等到身心障礙者的身份我們現在目前在3.0的時候我們現在目前會在整個資格上面來說來做放寬你要放寬到哪裡我現在跟你講你要先知道問題在哪裡因為你要等到他確定是殘障領到殘障所措才能進入失能的體系去 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7799.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7823.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那要經過半年觀察他不會認為醫療機構還有這個鑑定機構不會認為你一中風就是永久性的失能所以一定要失能一陣子確認你失能了才要給你證明你才有辦法進入長照體系那可是跟我們的黃金復健期剛好是衝突的我必須在黃金復健期馬上做這個復健然後呢否則的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7827.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7851.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
可是跟黃金復健期這個年輕的中風者必須要幹什麼嗎他必須要不斷的換醫院不斷的轉換醫院雖然你們從109年開始就刪除了住院日數30天的品質指標但是每個大型醫院都會告訴腦中風的患者管你45歲以下還是45歲以上28天通通要出院 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7852.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7879.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
理由就是病情穩定了你希望後面還有很多人中風的要用這個資源所以這個復健科還不到一個月28天的年輕的中風的人他就要開始找醫院然後呢他的復健之路何其漫長他的黃金復原期很重要可是呢如果一個年輕人你在做黃金復健的時候你沒有接住他你讓他變成永久失能永久躺在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7880.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7892.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
這個國家的長照 未來的長照體系 國家的醫療資源這樣不好啊 你在黃金時期讓他趕快的復原能夠復原到相當程度 能夠生活自理 能夠照顧自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7895.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7917.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這個頭三個月這樣的一個黃金的恢復期物理治療職能治療語言治療在這種狀況裡面他才是要搶救我們第一優先資源要配置在他們身上可是我們就目前的制度沒有接觸他們沒有所以照顧者45歲以下有可能剛結婚他的配偶或是他的媽媽 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7918.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7923.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
父母誰可以放下手邊的家庭和工作甚至小孩2歲 3歲 5歲 10歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7926.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7952.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
誰可以來接住他們然後他光是在都市裡面尋求大型醫院的復健科要銜接黃金復健期都已經很困難了如果你在鄉下地區醫療資源相對不特別充裕的縣市其實這些年輕的中風者會出現不論是醫療體系或是健保甚至是患者家庭最不願意看的狀況他們會躺好躺滿一直躺到生命結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7954.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7962.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這是不應該的所以這是不應該的你覺得我們部長你覺得我們要讓他們這樣子年輕中風七個就有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7964.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7984.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
報告委員真的很感謝您把這個重要的問題 一直長期這幾年來大家心中的覺得比較需要解決的問題提出來沒有啦 講真的講的空的 不好意思我自己跟你講啦所以你們回去要想3.0的會努力3.0要怎麼努力 好好的想一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7985.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7991.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
要 第一優先要接觸的是年輕的中風的人我想健保署這個部分也做很多啦中風和醫療和長照的關係是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7994.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8013.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
跟委員報告這個從開始早先的這個症狀就要警覺然後我們健保現在有擴大那個取酸素的黃金時間最早的那段時間所以取酸素我們擴大到24小時你現在講治療醫療你現在講醫療我現在講的是長照體系要怎麼先接住他們所以我剛剛講幾個課題醫療長照 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8026.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8047.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
醫療和長照和復健所以私能的部分我們現在的PAC有三種樣態有住院PAC有日間照護的PAC跟居家的PAC剛剛委員講的是說要不要再把這個進PAC的條件再放寬一些因為過去大家討論的都是比較有potential |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8048.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8072.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
復健的那些才進PAC相對輕症啦不是POTENTIAL相對輕症因為對你們來講相對輕症這種看起來改善率很好嘛可是我要告訴你是說即使不符合住院型PAC收案的條件但也不代表要放棄他們也不代表說他們沒有需求他也是會進入尋常的復健 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8074.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8088.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
她還是有復健 尋常的哪裡有尋常的復健過去衛福部示範過護理之家的PAC啦但是這個非醫院主導模式的role model沒有後續沒有繼續示範你們的PAC健保給醫院啦你們沒有下放到地區的這種護理之家啦住宿型的復健照顧機構啦你們這個體制 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8102.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8111.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我不管你怎麼用什麼方法我只想要看到年輕的腦中風的這一些人我們要在黃金時期整個長照體系照護體系要接住他們啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8116.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8134.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
對不對我想我們會把醫療跟長照結合起來來 接住如果接不住那些有需求的年輕人未來累積的醫療費用更多長照支出更多社會資源成本更多都變成個人和整個社會難以承擔的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8138.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8162.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
你要照顧的時間不一樣資源不一樣所以你一定要讓他避免越年輕師能照顧越沉重的狀況所以你PAC跟長照銜接的好你資格要放寬你的3.0就是要計畫到那這裡來如果年輕型的腦中風依然沒有辦法納入的話那這個問題就根本沒有解決我們醫療跟長照接口一定要接住每一個病人 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8163.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8191.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我現在告訴你這裡就是沒有接觸的啊我現在告訴你這裡就是沒有被接觸的我們來演繹來改善台灣的長照制度已經涵蓋了重症兒童到高齡的長者逐步來形成這個全齡式的照顧的架構可是呢透過早期的復健和這個功能的促進要減少後續的醫療支出和長照的支出而年輕型的腦中風這一類型就是最關鍵的一個族群了 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8192.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8206.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
是 我們台灣醫療水準很高 不能容許讓我們的病人不是醫療水準而已啦醫療跟長照跟長照件我請問一下那個署長 那個復健不是在長照也都有護嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8210.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8231.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
長照機構裡面也有回診那個附件還是有附的因為前三個月前六個月大概都還需要附件床然後住在那裡然後要去附件但是大型的醫院都沒有床位然後這個非大型的醫院的附件人家不會認為他們的附件 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8233.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8238.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
設施專業是到位的而年輕人需要的就是搶救他關鍵那六個月所以這個他的PAC計畫要不要放寬資格因為他很嚴格啊你自己有辦法支撐一點精英嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8248.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8273.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這中風啦 我就自己自稱1.1以上的中風都是相對比較輕度的再來就是說 你的PAC你只有健保幾戶 連動到大醫院沒有連動到護理之家也沒有連動到長照的機構沒有給 幾戶點數啦都沒有 所以說這個問題很嚴重的就是床也不夠可是我想講是 45歲以下他真的是關鍵啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8275.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8287.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
要接住他們啦好的是謝謝委員謝謝我們努力謝謝林委員的用心謝謝部長來接續我們請胡前幾委員質詢好謝謝主席那請邱部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8305.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8331.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
部長好那針對過去我國推行長照2.0的檢討還有我們未來3.0預期推動的藍圖那我們本席也跟部長在委員會討論很多次那當然我們也看到衛福部的努力那可是還是每個月都看到一些長照悲歌那部長對我們到現在有長照2.0你覺得執行成果你還滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8335.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8363.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我想從長照的2.0從不管是在經費、人力、服務人數跟長照的據點還有服務的效率我剛剛在口頭報告的時候都有報告單單服務效率我們從51天變成4天我們長照據點從724變成15000多次都是有幾十很多很多倍的一個成長照顧人力也增加了4倍所以基本上長照2.0的成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8364.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8379.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
是應該相當紅色但是一定還是需要再努力對可是我們看到單單上週4月28號到30號就發生兩件長照被割那共有五條性命不堪照護者 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8380.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8409.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
不堪負荷照顧者跟被照顧者一起走上絕路那我們現在的長照制度雖然針對我們失能程度有進行分類給予協助但是對於個案這些多重高風險的身份我們覺得他沒有給相對應更多的關懷暴露我們社安網跟我們長照資源分配在制度性的漏洞那我們之前三個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8410.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8435.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
針對新北中和這個個案照顧者非本國籍而且他沒有替代照顧者在語言文化資源各方面邊緣屬於高風險的個案那我們各縣市身障服務中心如果依照政策落實的運作早就應該要全面盤點這一方面需要協助的個案那為什麼都沒有盤點到 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8437.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8459.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好我想高風險個案的一個盤點我想我們是一直在努力啦那至於說會發生像這樣的狀況我們真的是心裡都非常難過而且在這麼努力之下還是會發生這種情況所以我們還有改進的一個空間啦那這個部分是不是請次長跟我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8462.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8485.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
非常感謝圖委員的一個關心那其實這個部分我想我們除了長照之外其實另外一個就是社安網社安網的部分其實主要事實上就是有高負荷您現在所說真是所謂高負荷那我們這裡面其實大概我們的機制主要是透過糧表的這部分他來趕快那個呈報之後然後我們會趕快列入這個整個一心高關懷的這一個的家庭那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8487.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8513.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這個裡面還有另外一個是包括您剛剛所說的有關於跟跟身障照顧服務身障團體身障服務中心這邊的這個相關人物整合問題那我想這個裡面的一些缺失我們確實應該也要來好好來檢討所以我們想了解一下這個問題是不是因為他出在沒有去實地訪視那沒有實地訪視我們也講過很多次是不是因為社工不足訪視員不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8514.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8532.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
你沒有去實際了解掌握他實際的狀況那照護者他的壓力又過重所以針對這些實際的狀況我們衛福部並沒有實際掌控是不是政府對於我們社工訪視員這部分沒有好好去做然後人員不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8533.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8555.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
報告委員 我想我們現在目前的機制就正如我剛剛所說的我們現在目前就是有長照的一個機制這邊主要是如果說民眾有任何問題主要都是用1966的專線他來跟我們來提出這個需求另外一個就是剛剛委員您剛剛所說的有關於社工的部分主要是我們的社會安全網 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8557.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8570.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
這邊我們的一個的部分我們會來來加強那我們現在目前的社工人數社安網的部分也從原先是1500我們現在目前呢已經增加到5000到5900那這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8573.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8579.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
其實即使是增加這樣的人數其實事實上真的確實還是不足所以也非常感謝也邀請委員我們這邊我們會來加強推動那這裡面我們主要事實上就是有這一個所謂的系統借街 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8591.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8617.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
系統介接的部分主要事實上是剛剛說的有關於老人保護特別是有關老人保護系統這邊我們主要事實上就是這個系統我們跟照管跟這個剛剛說照管的這個平台之間的一個相互的介接讓我們的社工在受案評估可以看到個案他這裡面剛剛委員您剛剛所提示的長照失能等級還有他的服務狀態我們現在目前是透過這個所謂系統介接 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8618.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8634.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
好 部長 次長其實我們今天最主要我們討論很多次那當然我們也給我們衛福部來肯定針對社工的薪資這次有比照軍公教來調薪那我們是希望這個獎勵制度跟津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8635.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8659.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
還是要注意啦你像針對我們訪視的獎勵制度還有圍牢的津貼這部分應該要給他們多加獎勵要讓更多的人投入社工的行列然後以相對應的薪資來留住這些社工也讓更多的社工來加入避免有太多這些受害者因為社工沒有去訪視而造成這些悲劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8660.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8688.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我跟委員補充一下這個確實就是剛剛委員所說的就是我們有社工還是有欠缺那這個部分主要是要改善他的勞動條件還有最重要是他的薪資這個部分部長他也非常非常支持所以我們在這邊社安網的部分除了原先我們的社工之外另外其他就算是他不是我們的正式社工但是我們有委外的我們現在也一律部長的支持之下我們現在目前就跟軍公教調薪3% |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8689.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8700.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
好 我們希望社工社安網這部分還是要加強因為這講了很多次了好的好 那我們針對我們萊豬的部分我來請問一下好 請示 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8702.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8729.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那部長當時之前我們農業部陳吉仲部長那之前他在發文有跟在野的立委說沒有全世界的萊豬都會進口台灣這件事情他那時候時空背景他說那台灣允許豬肉進口那時候是13國那這13國裡面有9個國家不允許使用萊克多巴胺那包含丹麥西班牙這些國家那有使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8730.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8759.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
萊劑的像紐西蘭澳洲美國跟加拿大這四個國家那當然當時我們紐西蘭因為沒有出口紀錄那加拿大他出口他是不含萊劑那澳洲本身國內生產不使用萊劑所以那個時候只有美國出口到我們台灣含萊劑可是現在我們是不是陳吉仲部長這個說法是不是破功因為你看我們現在澳洲使用萊劑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8760.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8785.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
豬肉已經進口到台灣來那我們衛福部是不是針對農業部這部分要做一些調查好 謝謝委員是不是市長來回應一下委員好 這邊跟委員做報告我們國內其實允許豬肉進口的20國牛肉進口其實有6國其中世界裡面允許萊克多巴胺在豬肉使用有27國 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8786.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8807.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那可以來到台灣的有六國其實這邊提到的我們提到的使用端的跟可以使用端跟進口端大概是以上的說明那進一步的因為我們面對的是現在是進口的這一塊對於我們已經設了國家的標準這國家標準向下我們是針對萊克多巴殘留的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8808.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8834.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
是0.001的標準那0.01的標準PPM的標準那這個標準的前提之下我們會按照這個來做管理那這樣子管理呢其實對國內外的任何的進口的來源都一體在適用但是之前只有美國有來濟那現在澳洲的也驗出來雖然說在我們的標準之內可是現在以前只有美國那現在澳洲也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8835.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8852.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
也難保其他的國家不會沒有那是不是針對澳洲的部分我們是不是跟農業部應該要去澳洲實地去做個瞭解是不是他們飼養的方式有加入這些萊劑導致送到台灣來的這些豬肉裡面在邊境查驗的時候驗出這個萊劑 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8853.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8877.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
跟委員報告一下因為澳洲其實是允許使用萊克多巴胺的他們本身飼養就允許了所以在國內是允許的在面對這樣的情形我們過去沒有去澳洲茶廠是因為澳洲豬肉來到台灣的歷史是非常非常長的歷史早在農委會衛福部農委會房檢署的時候就有房檢署的時代裡面就有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8878.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8896.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那就已經進來所以我們就沒有基於信賴保護原則就沒有再進一步去茶廠事實上沒有進一步去茶廠我們針對它的牛豬羊鹿肉在他們國內是一體適用的整體的茶的一個茶廠的狀況所以我們針對那一部分在106年也做過系統性的茶盒 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8897.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8920.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
在系統上查核之後呢在112年的1月13號其實已經公告可以允許雖然我們沒有特別針對豬的但他針對整個在國內的是豬牛羊鹿其實這一體的可是重點我們現在當然有源頭管理跟邊境茶葉那我們豬肉儀表板也有顯示可是現在我們針對這些豬肉 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8922.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8944.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
產地我們有標示可是不標示萊劑那重點我們有查到有萊劑可是我們現在又不公布這個產品的流向是不是造成民眾對於這個汁的權利他喪失了那如果說他不要吃含有萊劑的豬肉那他完全沒辦法掌控那如果你看現在澳洲今年進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8946.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8962.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
336.6公噸那我們查驗到70.24公噸就含有萊劑等於五分之一的澳洲豬肉就含有萊劑那你又不公佈流向那如果他擔心吃到的話那是不是你要讓民眾就拒絕吃澳洲豬肉 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8963.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8986.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我跟委員這邊做報告一下因為這次抽到三批是在澳洲是同一家廠進來的有兩家貿易商同一家廠來這是第一個做說明第二件事情是我們針對這個豬肉牛肉的查查其實從101年的牛肉馬總統的時候開放的時候到110年的蔡總統開放豬肉的時候我們總共查出來有的牛肉是2493件其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8989.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9009.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這查出來是萊克多巴胺是有檢出微量檢但都是合格的0.01ppm以下其中有6批的牛肉是不合格的我知道是合格的可是基本上應該讓民眾有選擇的權利他如果他不要吃有萊劑的他可以挑別的那你又不公布流向他又認為澳洲 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9010.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9030.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
豬肉裡面現在最少有五分之一含有萊劑那你又不公佈流向又不標示這個萊劑那是不是變成說他只能放棄吃澳洲豬肉報告委員其實所謂的所謂的原產地的標示其實在國內國外的豬牛其實一體適用那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9031.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9047.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
牛肉萊克多巴胺的部分2493件裡面其實沒有超標所以沒有特別讓民眾知道那在這種前提之下民眾不至於造成恐慌因為它在我們這邊的歷史已經是14、15年的歷史 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9049.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9071.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我們是希望還是讓民眾有知的權利有選擇的權利好 那我們衛福部針對這部分我相信其實民眾對這萊劑你說雖然吃了以後不會怎麼樣但是民眾還是會有恐慌他應該有選擇的權利我可以選擇不含萊劑的好 謝謝 讓大家更安心謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝圖委員 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9094.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9097.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
好 謝謝 接下來請我們蘇清泉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9108.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9116.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
好 謝謝主席 我請我們食藥署署長好 請我們食藥署的蔣署長李凱德 李凱德委員好署長 我這陣子看你講話 我替你捏兩汗你學生這樣講很危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9139.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9165.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我看你在政界上還要再磨練你還有石崇亮署長,他是你的標竿他做過次長,他做過次長,他做過署長,一直這樣子他都在做但是你看他prepare,prepare長官學,他都有他的一套這樣講話很危險,什麼吃不死,喝水就死了 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9169.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9194.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
吃飯也會死 吃米也會死所以這樣講是完全很危險的講法我要拜託署署長要自己提點謝謝委員 謝謝我今天早上有跟我們中華民國養豬學會潘連周理事長有跟他聯絡我說你的訴求是什麼這潘連周他是中華民國養豬學會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9196.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9216.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
他只有兩個要求因為他說從國外進口的豬肉佔我們不到一成差不多十到十二萬公噸台灣自己的豬肉他們很有信心只有兩個要求第一個要標示產地 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9219.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9236.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那第二個這個台北市長是炒得太熱了從我第八屆第九屆、第十屆是我們邱太郎部長在做立委第八屆就剪到剛才你看到很多包括田秋晴、陳潔如都在這裡寫名我做教委每天在這裡寫全部都要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9245.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9268.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
零檢出好了你看歐盟自己有訂Codex但是他不允許使用萊克多巴胺他也不允許用萊克多巴胺的肉品進口到歐盟現在是這樣喔他雖然他有訂他有訂標準Codex的標準說歐洲華典委員會訂出來那中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9270.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9280.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
兩個都禁止所以他從巴西進口牛肉啦從美國進口牛肉豬肉啦他們就乖乖的沒有用萊克多巴胺的農場乖乖的生產過來那俄羅斯沒有那日本有限度使用10個ppp就0.01ppm那有條件進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9295.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9309.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
萊克多巴胺的韓國也是一樣那台灣也是這樣被逼的啦差不多也是這個條件那美國他允許30個PVP那進口的也是30個PVP我剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9310.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9331.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我剛剛在那邊主持的時候打電話到美國我的親戚舊天山我問他說你們現在那個萊克多巴胺的肉是怎麼做因為我上次去美國看的時候是有標示他有吃瘦肉精的他就標示這邊沒吃瘦肉精的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9332.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9357.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
然後他說我說現在有沒有改變他說現在就沒有標示了但是他們如果沒有吃瘦肉精的他們會寫Nature就是他的食物是Nature沒有含藥物那個比較貴一點阿其他的什麼牛肉啦鹿肉啦什麼肉都沒有特別的標示因為FDA允許什麼瓦格肉都30個PVP啦美國人就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9360.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9389.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那美國就他們最好的嗎?沒有啦美國都黑白的啦所以給美國現在的標示就是這樣所以你對於這個標示產地你剛剛說我聽你講好像是國內國外都要標示產地有沒有是嗎?沒錯嘛那如果這個這兩天看到這個廠商是說他自己包裝抽屋、印書抽屋或是分裝抽屋是真的有這回事嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9393.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9412.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這個我沒有特別去詢問廠商因為有一點敏感的時刻當署長好像不太適合去問廠商說你們的狀況但是他們是有這樣子的宣稱以及有新聞稿我有看到好那這十幾年來所有的藍綠的民意代表包括我們總統當時說我這麼年輕我一定要臨時演出 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9417.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9436.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那這個題目炒得太熱了這個題目不是用說你說零點零一啦零點零四就吃了安心啦吃了不會死啦吃一輩子都不會死這個是情感問題 感覺的問題所以你說這個要再細緻一點再跟署署長請教一下好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9444.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9445.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以這個要很嚴肅的來看待 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9464.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9480.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
因為前一陣子國內的牙醫聯盟歐洲的東歐的牙醫聯盟日本的牙醫的學生的家長有三組人 吼 每天就在那邊忙不定我看你更可憐的啦 每天後面啦那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9484.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9510.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
有經驗的 有那個的 他不去偏鄉偏鄉有幾十個 沒有沒有沒有五十幾個吧五十五個 對 五十五個五十五個 包括屏東就幾大堆啊有走走的 沒走去啊外國回來的 你沒辦法去啊每天就換人家啊總是偏鄉裡頭要人多多的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9513.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9530.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
現在芽衣前年會,我看他討論,他說不然可不可以讓這個芽衣師畢業,我看一年也沒有多少個啦,頂多一百多個啦,難的嘛那用替代役,讓他去山上,他有這招啊,他有這招啊嘛,因為芽衣師出雜,但是經驗可能比較不好,但是總比不好比較好啊,你覺得這個這個這個要怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9545.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9560.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這個當然我們可以做建議啦不過這是內政部的權責所以是一個方式你現在沒有補啊沒有補啊 這裡是偏鄉現在是這樣啦 有那個偏鄉現在亞裔偏鄉這個計畫喔我們有鼓勵我們本國畢業的醫師喔可以去偏鄉我們再鼓勵保障薪水喔現在有這個制度現在就 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9576.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9590.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
現在這部份的價位是行政要去審查,因為包括保障薪水,包括他去到那裡,那個要把那個儀器嘛,設備什麼要處理好,所以我認為課程在衛生所,給他設備,讓他可以去。我先跟大家講,現在立體規定的是要本國畢業的,本國IHC畢業的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9600.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9619.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
對啦,你不要在那邊砰砰牙醫師,有經驗的先去,去保障薪水,我是怕還有人要去啦,不然你偏偏的誤導我牙醫師說的那說,如果有一個瘦不可能的,有得人要去啦我不會說的,人家看不定,看不定喔,看不定喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9620.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9626.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
要自己中間去看,在那裡也沒有藥醫,平常藥醫師說的去輪,輪,每次也開天窗,那不太簡單啦,藥醫師自己都在診所,自己都沒用,每次都中間 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9637.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9656.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以這個替代役這一塊算一算應該可以來補充人力不然的話你國外的不行這個有經驗的沒有人要去這個總是要改革的保證這塊的這塊的檢部有問題嗎?沒有問題嗎?可以嗎?部長當然這有一定的條件,市長講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9667.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9686.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
謝謝委員關心 就是誠如剛剛我們部長講的替代役是市內政部的權責然後再第二點就是說從113年起因為國家常備兵員的有一定的員額的考量所以113年起就只有因為宗教跟家庭的因素可以申請替代役這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9687.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9708.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
然後再來就是說雅一系的畢業生剛開始畢業的時候他有分有牌的跟沒牌的因為不是每個畢業生都一定可以考上如果說把經驗比較少的把他送到比較偏遠的偏鄉這樣的話他的適當性我們還需要考量再來替代儀的話94年次以後的畢業生只有一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9709.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9725.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
所以這個如果說他們一年有可能會造成短比較短期的人力那基本上我們在部長的指導之下我們希望是提供至少要有PGY以上的而且是長期的人力剛剛我們部長也講過了就是說畢業去當PGY |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9728.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9746.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
還沒有PGY喔?是畢業考上就去當兵?還是當替代役?對要跟我PGY,連PGY就沒有我們的偏鄉計畫,就是在部長指導之下,我們的偏鄉計畫是要有PGY以後才會去偏鄉這樣子偏鄉計畫是有完成PGY,當然是一定要用這招 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9750.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9767.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這修化有靠一項一般醫學的訓練一般牙醫學的訓練可能是比較適合這個替代醫這你要考慮的因素比較多但是是一個很好的方向我們也可以來建議啦好 可以考量這一塊啦好 謝謝趙委員好 謝謝蘇青前委員那下一位請我們黃秀芳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9783.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9786.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
謝謝主席我們請部長好請部長委員好 部長好今天上午很多位委員就是關心我們這個進口豬還有這個萊克多巴胺的事件那我知道就是說我們全台灣進口的豬其實占不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9807.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9827.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
差不多一成左右而已啦差不多百分之十啦那國人使用這個豬肉的這個習慣很多都是使用這個溫體豬那其實我會覺得就是說產地標示清楚讓消費者自己做選擇另外就是說有很多進口的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9828.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9852.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
進口肉進口豬肉進來之後很多都是直接到那個加工加工食品貢丸啊肉乾啊之類的那如果說今天我們標示產地如果在超市的話其實你標示這個豬肉的產地民眾消費者可以很容易的去辨識然後可以去選擇我到底要不要吃進口的那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9853.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9860.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
是在加工的食品譬如說貢丸 肉乾之類的這種加工食品那 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9862.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9889.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
如果是散裝的如果今天這個貢丸他在超市在傳統市場他是用散裝的那他是這個用進口的豬肉去做的那你如果完全沒標示的話我消費者完全沒辦法知道這個豬肉的來源所以我這邊是不是可以要求就是說產地的標示除了這個很多都進到這個加工的部分然後那加工食品的這個部分你們要怎麼去規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9890.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9903.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那個市長你要不要先這邊跟委員報告那我們針對所有的原料的豬肉的產地就是豬肉就是豬肉的原產地的標示其實一直都有是在事業進行舉例說剛剛說的散裝的 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9906.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9927.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
豬肉原產地標示跟我們的包裝的貢丸也是都有標示如果今天我在傳統市場我買了貢丸那個散裝的那你們怎麼去規範說我買到的這個是台灣豬做成的貢丸或者是我買到的是進口豬肉做成的貢丸 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9928.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9943.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
消費者要怎麼知道跟在食安法的25條底下我們對於散裝食品的豬肉原料的原產地的標示其實是一直都有在進行的那他在販賣的場所裡面其實就會有揭露這樣子的一個訊息以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9944.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9952.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
好我希望就是說衛福部針對這一部分因為國人畢竟國人會擔心那因為國人吃這個豬肉的這個習慣多數都是吃溫體豬而且對台灣的這個豬肉 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9961.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9987.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
它比較不會有那個腥味應該是說腥味那進口的這個豬肉很多都會有那種腥味所以國人還是比較喜歡食用台灣豬而且台灣豬的這個品質也比其他的都還好所以我是希望就是衛福部針對這部分應該是要求標示清楚不論是有包裝的加工的食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9988.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9994.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
不是去包裝或者是散裝都一定要要求標示清楚讓消費者自己去做選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9996.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10020.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我們國內國外都一體適用另外我們也希望也是要嚴格去查畢竟對於國人食的安全衛福部跟食藥署這邊要負很大的責任所以我們也希望除了標示之外嚴加的查查我覺得這個應該也是要做到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10021.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10046.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
是邊界的檢查以及市場的一個監測我們都會落實好 那那個署長你可以先回另外我想請教就是說部長我在那個人力銀行上面有看到就是說有醫材公司他們的徵材那他的這個徵材網頁上面就有特別提到就是說配合醫院手術跟刀及條壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10048.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10070.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
好那這個是在那個人力銀行應徵的這個工作性質就是配合醫院手術跟刀及調壓那經驗不拘不需要有工作經驗經驗不拘那我實際有請教就是也有問過目前在從事這樣工作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10072.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10091.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
的人確實就是醫師開這個腦部腦流那可能會裝一些醫療器材可能有這個醫療器材裝在腦部那引流的部分那這個醫材公司他的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10093.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10111.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
他的業務就會到這個這個手術房裡面跟刀然後未來這個裝完之後可能這個病患的這個調壓腦壓什麼就是調節的部分也是由這個業務來做那部長你覺得這樣是正常的嗎我覺得是醫療是一個團隊也不能說誰單單做那個動作他就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10120.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10137.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
完全的負責比如說這個一定是腦外科的主治醫師指導的醫師主導所有一切包括誰要做什麼動作誰要做什麼動作我想應該就是主導者在領導這個團隊所以這個可能要看他 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10139.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10158.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
做的事情是在一種技術的協助還是有特別專業的成分我覺得專業還是在腦外科的一個主導的意思來主導所有的一切這個患者手術完之後回到家裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10160.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10174.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
儀器可能也在他的這個腦部跟他的那個肚子裡面那可能要做一些腦壓的一個調節的部分那也許在短時間內可能有排定回診的時間那這個時間還沒到的時候有時候患者他就會直接請這個醫材公司打個電話然後請業務來幫他做這個調節 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10184.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10207.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那你覺得這樣是合理的嗎或者是說未來如果這樣子出了問題那這個責任要算誰的我想只要還在調還在等於是說醫療的階段應該都是由主治醫師來負所有照顧的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10208.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10235.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那至於說各個專業或技術人員他能夠參與的層次我想主治醫師都要掌握而且都要負責我想應該不是由一個某一個成員單單去做那件事情因為那裡面其實是充滿專業的灌注在裡面他才會去做那個動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10237.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10248.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我想這樣子還是我相信每一個那個去做的動作背後也是一個團隊思考那這個東西就是由負責的照顧的醫師應該要去擔負整個醫療的責任好 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10253.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10271.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
部長因為我今天要跟你講的就是說其實現在這個我們所有的醫療醫材真的是日新月異那我現在舉這個例子那另外就是說我們在長照的這個據點上面也有那個機器人嘛也有機器人那 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10273.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10290.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這個機器人可以跟裡面的這個阿公阿嬤可能聊天或幫他做一些那個送東西送藥那我想請教就是說未來就剛剛講的這個醫材方面或者是類似這樣機器人 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10291.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10313.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那因為我在一兩個會期之前那時候也有特別提到就是說我們專業的這個醫學工程人員這個可能在這個醫院裡面都有可能負責這些醫療器材的部分那在之前大家會希望就是說因為現在這些儀器真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10315.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10322.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
真的確實要有這樣的一個專業的人來從事而不是我覺得就像剛剛講的這個這個醫材裝在腦袋裡面然後這個腦壓的調節 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10328.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10351.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
引流是由一個可能沒有什麼工作經驗的然後也沒有什麼醫療相關背景的人來從事這樣的一個工作那我想請教那個部長未來有沒有可能針對我們這個醫學工程師的這一部分會朝向這樣的這種想法或者是你們也會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10353.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10358.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
希望能夠有醫學工程師法這樣的一個立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10359.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10384.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
好,我想醫學工程的發展,這30年的發展真的是幫助我們醫療品質,整個團隊的醫療品質幫忙非常大就像今天早上那個江署長、江教授也有說台大他有一國也有相關的一個跨領域的一個相關的課程電子跟醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10386.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10405.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
電子跟醫療其實都是結合在一起那至於說本身這個醫學工程師他要用什麼方式才能夠來肯定他的專業能夠讓專業得到肯定我想我們以前當立委多年來也常常會碰到這個各個 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10407.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10420.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
專業人人他的一個怎麼樣去樹立他的專業當然樹立他的專業裡面對師生都比較好啦他的戲的發展那個生的發展但是怎麼樣但是一 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10421.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10438.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
這樣的一個醫學工程師他的定義還有他的一個背景是應該怎麼樣這個他們的內部都還在討論那我們一直有跟他們在溝通那我們會絕對是尊重醫學工程師的一個專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10440.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10458.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
因為我是看到那個人力銀行這樣的應徵我會覺得工作經驗不拘沒有經驗也可以而且沒有相關背景也沒有關係來做這樣從事我們會認為是一個醫療行為啦那如果是這樣子的話其實我覺得是還蠻 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10460.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10484.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
蠻嚴重的一個問題所以我希望就是說因為我們未來可能有更多更多的這個醫療產業智慧型的醫療產業而且現在在民間這種智慧型的醫療產業其實還蠻蓬勃的所以我希望就是衛福部針對這部分應該要去好好的思考好不好好的好我們整體來思考好謝謝謝謝黃委員謝謝部長我們現在要休息一下嗎因為大家等不住了 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10493.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10498.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
休息六分鐘好了我們王振興委員執行完就處理臨時提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10510.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10510.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10533.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10533.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
後來應該說不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10959.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10962.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會 請王振旭委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10972.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10994.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
謝謝主席我們請邱部長難得我們在台下有這麼多委員在同時在這個諮詢的過程當中在我們共同來努力 謝謝那今天看了這個部長的報告前面的部分是針對於我們在長照照顧部分的確在過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10995.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11021.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
從那個小英總統到現任的賴總統真的做了非常多的努力不只經費大幅的增加而且這個服務的據點也大幅的擴充同時也贏得了非常好的滿意度表示說這個政策是非常的正確而且服務到該照顧的人民因為我們也知道進入到超高齡社會的確長照尤其是高齡者的協助照顧真的是非常非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11023.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11041.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這部分就在根據後判斷需要注意的事情跟部長這邊再來做討論我們也知道其實長照過程裡面很重要就是疾病本身帶來一些照顧上的問題包括林書文委員也提到中風 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11042.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11067.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
尤其是年輕人的中風如何能夠協助他們能夠穩定病情那同時得到好的復健最後能夠回歸到家庭回歸到社會持續對台灣有所貢獻所以在極限期極限後期的照護到緩加以後呢這個都需要非常好的銜接才能把這個事情做好所以PAC就是極限後期的照護如果能夠做得好的話就能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11068.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11096.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
讓後面的這個長照可以得到很好的改善對於醫療跟整個國家的這個資源的幫助一定是非常非常明顯我想部長一定會很確認這個觀點那再過來我們還是希望照顧不中斷的原則之下那如何針對於持續要努力的長照3.0醫療長照的這個照顧整合能夠做資訊整合的無縫接軌那 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11097.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11119.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
剛剛也有提到那如果我們要擴大這個照顧的量能的話那上游跟承作醫院的負荷我們如何能夠同時來兼顧那最後就是有關於長照這個醫療這個資源的佈局跟銜接這個都是為了我們要共同努力的地方那其實資訊整合我相信大家都非常非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11121.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11146.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
認為是重中之重尤其需要有更好的一個資訊整合的模式那醫療照顧整合依據部長你們今天提供的第七頁有關於醫療照顧整合的資訊的部分醫療跟照顧將透過大家醫計畫來整合在宅醫療在宅責任醫療等等來建構資訊管理平臺 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11148.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11162.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那這個是希望透過大家的計畫來建置這個資訊管理平臺可是我們現在看到的就是PAC這兩個是不一樣的計畫那這樣的資訊平臺未來可以共用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11163.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11185.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
在處理上我們需要再注意哪一些的事情這個是我們很擔心如果他只偏待大家一計畫的所建置的這個資訊管理平臺那未來在針對長照PAC的銜接會不會造成資訊上的一些落差變成一個資訊孤島那如果這個落差存在的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11186.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11203.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那我們的這個A個案管理如何能夠正確的落實讓他在這個服務裡面這麼關鍵的一個銜接工作能夠有效的來落實那這部分部長您的意見怎麼樣好 謝謝委員提出了非常重要的關鍵的點我們在3.0方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11207.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11236.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
就是把醫療跟長照結合不漏接每一個需要的人甚至讓他更加的富能能夠恢復正常提高生活的品質所以資訊的整合才能夠避免剛剛您提的資訊孤島或者重複的資源的浪費那這個部分在社區過去20年來我們健保署跟衛福部跟政府在社區醫療群的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11237.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11262.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
資訊的努力方面就已經下了很大的功夫那以這樣的一個基礎我是覺得是最聰明跟最有效率的來結合後續不管是更多的預防保健長照的工作以這樣來講是最好的一個方向那至於現在實際上怎麼做是不是我們請健保署署長可以補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11263.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11291.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
好 委員好現在是這樣我們先雖然叫做大嘉義計畫可是它後面有一個資訊系統叫做嘉義大平台那最主要它就是以人為中心把它的資料整合不論你在哪一個醫療院所看的資料以人為中心整合在一起那同時把預防保健包含CDC國健署的這些預防保健的資料也都整合起來所以是以人歸人歸戶的概念那我們現在先做到的是醫療這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11292.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11310.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那接著我們就要去接長照服務那一塊所以等於是我們後面有一個平台一個資訊平台在做整合資訊的整合所以我們下一步現在正在跟長照系統這邊嘗試要把它也把它歸人進來以人為中心做了整合因為這個人會變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11312.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11335.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
他本來過去可能是在家庭醫師計畫裡面有一天他中風了他就失能了所以其實他是一個連續性的所以我們才會以一個才不會變成過去這樣好多個系統對其實我們很期待就是透過這樣的資訊平台當一位變換或者是當他要回到社區的時候他可以透過AI的這些媒合的模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11335.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11364.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
他要到哪一個據點他應該執行哪一方面的復健或者是回家以後如何安排相關的一些就是從點對點的這種服務模式這樣的話才能夠完整至少就是以人為本的服務模式這個是很期待透過這一次的這個計畫能夠把這方面可以持續的來落實那我們再看再過來就是說有關於這個成長部分因為當初的 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11366.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11383.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
成長的預估是3.85%根據這個長照的需求那PAC的部分如果我們要擴大這個不管是年齡的放寬早發現的失智或者是未滿65歲的中風林書恩委員一直強調小於40歲的中風的這個族群已經占到將近15%那如何能夠讓這樣的服務量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11392.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11408.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
在考慮增加的同時也能夠造成因為醫院的負擔的情形之下如何能夠去改善它那人力跟復健的這個部分是不是能夠跟得上支付誘因是不是能夠平衡在這部分不知道部長或署長有沒有規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11411.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11432.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
因為這個部分我們很感謝在健保方面都一直配合在做處理跟委員說明一下以目前我們參加PAC的乘坐醫院大概203家那他們的佔床率現在大概是差不多五成而已所以其實病床空間是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11432.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11447.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那現在接下來當然要調整的就是說他的服務上的那些人力啦人力的標準啊那些那搭配著支付標準我們再來檢討不過呢還是得要有一些條件不然就會變成住院的延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11449.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11471.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我們的PAC還是希望他是有復健的潛能的才進PAC的program不然還是應該要到長照不然就會變成我們PAC有三個月最長可以12週變成以後都變成延長住院的概念也不對那我們再來檢討看看適用上條件的這個調整我們再來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11472.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11499.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
因為我們也知道203家這樣的這個PAC的團隊可是資源相對可能都會集中在人口集中的都會區所以如何能夠讓這個區域的缺口根據這個需要鼓勵不管是中型或小型的醫院地區醫院等等來增加這方面的服務模式還有剛剛也提到其實包括復健師或者是其他相關的這些人才的 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11499.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11527.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
留置在這個比較偏遠的地方也都是很重要需要請部裡面或者是書裡面這邊來加強處理的部分也希望在未來的規劃上也把這些都考量進來那再過來就是有關於這個積極賦能我們剛有提到其實如果這些在急性期當中能夠積極賦能的話對於未來的這些所需要的資源就可以大幅的下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11528.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11540.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那飲食呢事實上就是讓積極負能裡面在營養的補充得到最好的一個支持的部分我們也知道在日本他們對這個非常非常的重視所以在2002年他們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11543.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11567.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
根據這個日本接戶食品協議會去提供非常多的標章的處置或者是協助社會如何能夠知道在需要比較主角能力下降或者是需要有其他方式來進食的民眾有很好的資訊來得到好的這個相關的幫忙跟支持那這部分台灣相對來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11568.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11592.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
是沒有那麼樣的進展那麼樣的這個順利所以未來是不是能夠麻煩我們部裡面或者相關的單位能夠針對於這個長照通用設計飲食不管是提供指引也好或者是提供各類的要求讓質地的這個分布可以更符合民眾的期待在處理上有更精進的做法那這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11593.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11616.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
需要的是長照師國健署甚至是營養單位共同來努力那這部分就要麻煩部長來要求相關單位來把這個部分可以精進的做進一步讓國民尤其是需要這一類食品的老人家也好或者是針對這個口腔咀嚼能力變得不好的民眾可以有效的得到指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11619.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11646.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那個謝謝委員能夠關心到這個病人或者是長照的人的一個飲食的狀況因為如果能夠好好的指導他怎麼飲食或者是口腔的衛生把他照顧好然後選擇他想吃的食物以及他可以吃的食物其實我們可以讓我們的病人或者是我們的長者不需要去甕個鼻胃管 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11646.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11668.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
或是不必要的人工輸液營養這是非常重要的照顧的一個模式那這個都就是要有相關的人員的訓練當然以家屬的照顧來講我們也希望有指引就像日本這樣子日本在這方面真的是相當先進值得我們來學習那我們國健署也的確 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11669.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11685.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
也做出了一個比較一般老者長者的一個食品的指引我們未來會把它弄成更個別化來努力那預計什麼時候會是台灣五管人生的元年五管的喔就沒有管制的人生 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11686.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11704.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我們從30年前就立下誓言表示只要安寧環和醫療的專業能夠更加的發揮讓我們對長者照顧的模式能夠更加的有專業我相信應該有更多的長者或病人 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11705.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11728.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
不太需要去用到不必要痛苦的鼻胃管這是我們台灣人性化的很重要的意義一個里程碑這個感謝王委員多年來的努力好 部長加油謝謝謝謝王委員 謝謝部長來 我們現在處理臨時提案只有一案而已那請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11729.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11756.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
交求衛福部食藥署應全面落實行政院109年11月26日公布之進口豬肉汁全方位管理措施以維護國人食安健康及消費選擇權一 未查場不給進口未曾進口來台的肉品廠需經我派員查場後方得進口二 逐批查驗三 產地標示跟著肉品走肉品自大到小從進口商肉品廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11757.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11772.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
隨著販售通路一路下到店頭攤商四 政府嚴格稽查對於未依規定標示標示不實或檢驗不符規定的業者一律嚴懲重罰提案人委員王玉敏 陳金輝 陳昭芝宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11776.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11804.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
黃議員不要說明好這個謝謝召委還有各位委員還有衛福部官員我想我提出來的這個臨時提案其實只是回到行政院在109年11月26號他自己所公布的進口豬肉之全方位管理措施這個完全所有的文字都是當時行政院對外公告的四大措施那 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11805.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11831.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
現在因為澳洲進口含有萊劑的豬肉所以我覺得這個中間從109年到現在我們的確有一些做法就是已經放掉了太鬆散那現在又發現有萊劑的豬肉所以應該要全面落實回到109年11月26號行政院自己所進行公佈的全方位管理措施保障國人的食安所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11832.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11849.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
以下的一二三四點 這個都不是我個人意見而是完全都是當時行政院所訂下的規範所以我相信在執行上面 如果政府是一致的那應該在執行上不會有致愛難省之處 以上 謝謝行政單位有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11855.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11872.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
謝謝委員的提案那這邊我們身為針對這個提案我們這邊做一些些研擬就4月29日5月6日衛福部實要屬於邊境抽P驗出高達70.24公噸含有萊克多巴胺之冷凍澳洲豬腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11874.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11899.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
且事發後仍維持2至10%一般抽批檢驗率未將強度提高至100%逐批查驗亦未擴大稽查已流入後市場端之肉品並於清查完畢前要求該業者暫停輸入肉品使民眾陷於食安風暴之恐慌中 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11900.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11916.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
有鑑於豬肉食品使用規範的廣泛等等那就國人特別在國人食品安全健康消費的選擇前以下四點做了第一個我們會加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11917.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11931.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
加強茶廠針對進口來台的肉品廠加強派員茶廠第二加強茶宴進口豬肉提升茶宴率第三落實產地標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11933.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11955.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
肉品自大到小從進口商肉品廠隨著販售通路一路下到店頭攤商會讓消費者一目了然自由選擇同時也清楚標示產地第四政府嚴格稽查不符標準必重罰對於未規定標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11958.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11980.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
標示不實或查驗不符規定的業者一定會嚴懲重罰 以上那個有的人需要修正的文字對不對你們修正的文字可以給其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11981.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11994.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
委員看齁那第一個趕快給各位委員看第一個就是茶廠的部分你們會去茶廠嗎齁我們加強茶廠一定會所以澳洲的部分會去嗎我們會積極的規劃好謝謝不好意思先畫給大家先畫給大家這樣才有辦法討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12020.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12024.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
所以第二點竹皮查驗不要做嗎?我們一定會加強查驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12031.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12049.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
你查到那個人工智慧那個嘛,你如果查越多,比例就越多,到達某個程度就是百分之百了但是它是逐步的,用人工智慧加上精準查驗啦,不是說風吹草動就逐批 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12050.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12077.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那一定要提高啊一定要提高這一次其實已經查出萊克多巴胺了嘛所以這個食藥署一定要提高你的查驗比例啊這個可以做嘛進口豬肉會提升查驗率這邊有提到這個提高的部分我也要求一定要做然後你那個第三點你剛剛念的就是那個溯源追蹤為什麼要刪除我們會做可以清楚的標示產地它其實的意義是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12080.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12105.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那你就是保留有什麼問題嗎意思一樣我就保留讓大家看起來比較安心吧你就是可以清楚標示產地溯源追蹤這樣可以嗎我們標示的產地的話就會標示說標示在澳洲進口的因為是豬肉的原產地原料之源產地是來自於澳洲來自於美國來自於哪個國家我知道就保留溯源追蹤四個字有什麼問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12107.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12115.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
就保留就是說同時也可清除標示產地溯源追蹤這有什麼問題嗎為什麼溯源追蹤一定要刪除我不太懂如果意思是一樣的我是建議保留可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12124.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12137.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
我想就按照委員的建議我們可以就保留這個溯源追蹤式對啊好不好越清晰越好嘛好所以我想要釐清一下你只標示產地叫做溯源追蹤嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12140.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12166.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
副委員這部分因為溯源追蹤的時候是我們是在食安法25條跟25條項授權下來的所以我們根據那樣子的溯源追蹤是已經有對豬肉的編號嘛對不對它不是原產地有溯源追蹤是從哪邊來的對對對所以就是它雖然是美國廠美國產地它有不同的不同的廠出來的好像每一批來的不一樣嘛所以這是有溯源追蹤溯源追蹤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12171.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12194.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
好陳委員陳昭志委我今天早上第一個質詢我有提出很多的資料這個加強是形容詞加強不是數字因為2020年行政院講這麼清楚那幾個國家加拿大紐西蘭美國澳洲他們都說沒有只准美國的來租進口因為我們立了那個法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12195.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12204.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
然後到一直到目前為止他們都說是都是零檢出那這些他的承諾還在嗎然後蘇院長說不查場不准進口而且當時他說要先逐批查場 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12210.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12229.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
但是我查到當時那個豬肉的那個茶廠美豬事實上都沒有把報告放出來我催了很久之後食藥署才把他公告上網但是非常特別的他查了六家廠有五家根本不用來的他去查不要查那個做什麼只有一家用來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12230.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12248.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
所以后来我没有继续去追踪认识就逼着他们把茶厂报告放上去那今天我们回到这个原点我刚刚早上咨询讲得很清楚今天不是那个法案的问题法是0.01食药署说它0.01它低于它所以它OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12249.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12275.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
但是民眾不要因為所有民進黨的利用我可以跟你找出至少20個從老柯算起當初都零減出因為民眾不要吃萊豬所以我們確實定的比國際還要嚴格但是突然間不知道為什麼國際的標準他就悄悄的就更動了然後讓這個沒有查場過的澳洲豬肉也進來所以我只是要他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12278.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12289.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
兌現他們當年的承諾這第一個不查場不給進口藥品也是這樣啊你沒有查過場不管你用什麼方式去查場我不管你書面查場還是到林場查場沒有查場的東西怎麼可以進口啊去年的那個生理食鹽水就是這樣來啊管理部加整個斷貨啊結果買進來都是沒查場啊沒有許可證的東西這個東西我不能再重演所以沒有查場怎麼准進口這是什麼時候改變的這個要先講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12305.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12321.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
現在先講清楚那不然就政府道歉好現在我們就先用盡量在後端採查那第二個逐批檢驗那也是蘇貞昌答應的啊逐批檢驗啊逐批檢驗你看就成效還可以還慢慢減少那我們不知道為什麼它突然間變成只剩下2到10%可是一檢出來就量就這麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12326.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12332.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那那個產地標示我一直在講產地標示這個是邱部長你們這邊要準備的產地標示這個來的含量這個是被列為這個雖然我們要保護我們的食安你一直在講但是你們也講不出來到底你對川普的談判因為美國要我們買美豬美牛他不要我們標示原產地原產地已經被認為說是一個障礙標標準準的貿易障礙就不准標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12352.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12366.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
好那你現在聚標示你要有能耐有這個本事去談判的時候你要這個堅守這個立場所以我覺得這個這一次的回覆都是形容詞我個人沒有辦法接受都是形容詞什麼叫加強啊什麼叫加強啊這個標示的東西才會這個這個多加強查驗然後加強這個什麼這個這個然後現在在規劃可是牛那個豬肉都進來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12381.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12398.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
所以我王偉宇雖然這樣提可是我還是堅持我還是堅持第一個不然你就要道歉你當初承諾的東西2020年是行政院的圖卡而且那時候他是為了很多他們認為是網路上的謠言他自己做了圖卡我現在沒有帶在身上我早上有秀給大家看 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12399.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12414.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我們現在的查驗差不多幾%現在是按照我們過去的邊境的查查的狀況之後他其實會調整那目前是2到10%我們會按照委員的意見我們會做一些提升以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12415.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12443.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那如果要做到除皮材那量很大喔對的確是邊境的人力目前其實是相當吃緊一直以來都是這樣子的狀況所以跟委員說明一下我們因為行政端我們就是訂了一個標準之後真的是按照那樣子來去精準的抽驗才是我們現在持續能夠努力的那委員有特別提到要提升我們一定會答應可以提升以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12445.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12464.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
你現在要加強查案學差不多提高到幾%啦差不多大約啦我們其實是希望能夠再往上提升在下一個階級其實是他有一個人工智慧的機制嘛你如果想一個沒過的我如果想一個比較壞的我就給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12465.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12480.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
加強功課嘛先這樣賣到一個聽到就好不是都要上課啦就是百分之百啦嘛我聽到覺得報告召委這邊這個叫做精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12482.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12499.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
原來是2到10%那因為雖然說沒有不及格理論上沒有不及格是一樣會2到10%那因為委員特別提到我們可以把下一個階層到20到50%的針對澳洲來的牛肉做這樣子查查不曉得這樣子的回覆是否合一 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12500.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12516.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
可能還是要有科學的制度啦你查了怎麼樣就幾%如果他的成績比較不好就提升甚至會提升到100%都有可能這個就是精準查驗嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12517.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12542.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
因為現在就是已經查出那個澳洲的別的國家都沒有嘛現在就是澳洲豬肉已經含有萊克多巴胺所以當然在你們的行政權裡面你們自己可以針對高風險國人疑慮高的你們就可以優先去提高比例嗎過去這個向來行政權我今天才跟你們講過在你們的施行辦法裡面食藥署會有非常大的權利你說要 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12543.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12560.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
你說要提高就提高你說要百分之百完全都是決定在你們嘛那你們就應該要根據今天國會委員的關心國人的疑慮針對比較高風險的有疑慮的去提高嘛這個就是你們的權限嘛好不好謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12562.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12574.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我有問題可以請問一下嗎好來請好謝謝主席那個我想要請石耀淑說明一下因為剛剛陳昭資委員堅持說那個零茶廠零進口當年我們在當時蘇院長的承諾應該如果沒有記錯的話應該是針對美國進口的肉品新設的廠廠對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12582.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12611.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
對但是這部分你沒有說明啊然後就你可不可以說明一下到底我當時的理解跟剛剛陳偉文的說法好不好我覺得都還是要給我們一個說明好關於茶廠這件事情有沒有辦法弄出來是2022年行政院的這個自己的圖卡說只有美國來租事實因為他是在反那個謠言事實是只有美國來租會進口我今天早上我可以傳給大家我看現在有什麼方式我可以秀在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12615.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12643.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
有有有 我知道我知道部長你知道有人真的聽嗎不是啦 委員你現在給他說我現在是在問問題我不是問你 我是問石耀蘇 謝謝謝謝委員那我們對於這個了解是在109年11月26號提到的赴美茶廠是針對美國當時的茶廠有茶廠過後才會進來這個是確實我們有看到那至於澳洲是不能容我有一天點解釋就是說澳洲豬肉齁其實早年很久以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12644.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12664.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
在行政院農委會房檢局的時候就承諾系統性的開放同意澳洲豬肉的輸台那時候呢就是基於信賴保護原則輸入食品系統性的查驗辦法實施之前所以實施之後呢就變成柴油之前它就已經來了我們其實就選擇是相信就是信賴保護嘛實施之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12665.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12695.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我們沒有針對豬肉但是整體在澳洲系統是牛豬羊鹿肉採認完整的系統性查驗考量我們對澳洲牛豬羊鹿肉的產品受同一個主管機關管理管理的系統相同我們有在106年執行過系統性的實地查核所以也採認了它的系統性查核所以112年1月13號簽合奉可之後所以這個是為什麼澳洲豬肉是可以進口的 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12695.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12722.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那進口進來的時候出現有萊克多巴胺的其實我們是對於廠商貿易廠商裡面進口哪一家去進來的我們沒有特別因為整個系統性查核所以他們會對接到要進口什麼我們都尊重我們後市場端跟邊境尤其在邊境的時候同仁很努力的就是按照我們的標準在抽所以有抽到跟國人做公告也讓委員能夠了解這是我們現在的做法以上的說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12723.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12751.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
容我補充一下我想這個議題從第八屆開始在座如果有第八屆的立法委員可能就會知道當時是從美牛都沒有進口所以美豬當然也是禁所以台灣過去其實就是禁止萊克多巴胺我們自己的豬農不能使用美牛也不可以進來美豬當然也不能進來所以在第八屆的時候那時候是全面禁止的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12752.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12764.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
到後來美牛開放但是牛豬分離美豬不能開放但是到了民進黨執政的時候美豬要開放美豬要開放所以109年當時蘇貞昌院長才訂了這個管制措施要讓大家安心就是說含有萊劑也不能進來大家如果回過頭去看剛剛陳昭志委員講的是對的陳吉仲主委他對外講的時候他說只有美國的美豬含有萊劑 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12778.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12802.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
所以當時的查場就會特別針對美國但是現在各位連澳洲的也含有萊劑當時農委會告訴大家的是說美國含有萊劑所以當然是美國查場但現在澳洲已經有萊劑澳洲不查場嗎?食安的標準應該是一致的如果我們回到當時行政院109年他公告這幾項措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12803.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12831.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
不會說只有要針對美國的美豬要查場是因為當時要進口含有萊劑的美豬所以才特別講美國因為農委會告訴大家其他國家都沒有啦也不會進來那這樣子大家懂了嗎所以我們的食安標準應該是一致如果當時行政院的管制措施他為什麼說就是沒有查場的就不進口他是要給大家安心就是說經過了食藥署的查場確定這一個整個肉品廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12831.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12860.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
他這個是符合安全衛生的然後才要放行讓他進來所以剛剛署長提到那個的脈絡在更之前的那個跟這個其實已經是沒有關係就在109年之後如果當時蘇貞昌院長整個行政院做的這個管理措施是對的我覺得不應該因為時間的推移我們就去放鬆而是就是回到109年這樣的一個管制措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12864.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12889.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
謝謝周偉這邊我稍微簡單說明一下剛才講第一條加強茶廠那為什麼我講加強茶廠這件事情因為我剛才問同仁我說有錢沒出門嗎他說報告書上你要來種植他跟我說但是我想我們會優先把這個排到我們加強茶廠的一個優先好不好我想我們會加強我請問一下你澳洲的豬肉你以前是有沒有在茶宴 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12890.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12905.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
你說邊境的茶葉嗎 對邊境真的是一體試用我們都是抽茶的都一直在抽的所以你說一開始是農委會同意他們進來嗎對 這個是在幾乎是一百年之前你今天講信賴保護講了差不多十次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12906.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12932.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
那農委會准他那你就從來沒有去查過他們的廠我們查他的是查農委會沒有去查他們的牛肉羊肉在106年有去你們是食藥署去對對我們會跟他們一起去然後去查完之後呢因為他們在那邊的牛豬羊鹿肉是一起的所以我們就會變性那這一次三批超量那三批是退還是銷毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12934.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12949.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
原則上它沒有超過標準它是沒有違規的行為所以我們其實是會按照我們現在管制標準其實是會放行交由廠商再處理所以都是流露做肉包 貢丸通通照照去早上 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12950.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12964.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
林淑雯講的是我覺得她講的很有道理她說她有資格不吃嘛所以你要標示產地是很起碼的要求那個做得到吧對這個後市場端 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12965.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12987.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我們對於所謂的散裝的以及對於所謂包裝的其實對於牛肉的原料的原產地其實會標示假如是製造是在台灣製造嘛但是牛肉原料原產地在澳洲我們就標到澳洲去了豬肉牛肉都這樣我們有這樣子的標示的以上說好 還有問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12989.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12990.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
這問題太敏感了這已經沒有三個禮物了 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12999.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13005.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
行政院的圖卡行政院的圖卡2020年他告訴我們因為他很多人在謠傳他認為他是事實是什麼只有美國萊豬會進口到台灣然後其他的他說加拿大出口不含有些人從未進來澳洲他說國內市場幾乎不用你這是一查就查這麼多總量是微乎其微所以只有美國會進來只有美國萊豬會進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13029.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13032.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
所以不要用這一張說他每個都要裁判這個只是用美國不是用澳洲只有美國來諸位進口2022年我剛剛說請不要翻頁這個還是你們的黨統一黨在執政不要翻這個才是行政院的圖卡好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13047.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13049.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
我們沒有開放啊 署長我們沒有開放第一個我們沒有開放我們只開放美國來做進口第二個您剛剛已經查出這麼多批了你這個2到10怎麼沒有立刻矯正呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13077.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13099.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
就是說你茶套這麼多量那現在才讓委員說你們要不要提高這個茶葉量現在就是不行再回到我們還是回到左邊行政院為最高指導原則對吧你們不能否認吧行政院是最高指導原則除非行政院出來認錯修改說他當初答應人民的他現在都做不到偷偷巧巧的就有其他的國家的萊豬進來了就這樣就這麼簡單行政院是為了屁啊才做那張卡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13106.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13116.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
謝謝委員主席我可以再提問一下嗎根據這張圖卡在左邊跟右邊應該是在講不同的事情吧右邊就是剛剛食藥署說的它是針對美國的部分未成茶廠不可以進口是嗎署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13119.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13133.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
是所有沒有進口所有沒有進口可是左邊我們列出來的資料是在那之前你剛說性愛保護原則其實就已經有開始進口澳洲豬肉澳洲一路以來其實都有進口豬肉所以我覺得要理解這個資訊左邊跟右邊邏輯應該是剛說的那樣謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13138.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13161.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
好那我想是这样当年是不是只有美国有这个来猪那其他国家没有我想或许在当年有当年的时空背景跟状态那现在因为进口商确实他进了澳洲的猪肉那他进口的时候他觉得是没有来迹的但是现在却发现查验却有了那我觉得是这样子啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13163.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13179.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
如果大家認為說這個時候可能其他國家會陸續會有這個來株加萊劑的這個狀況那沒關係我們也很贊成就是說食藥署可以到國外去加強你們茶氣的強度 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13181.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13206.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
这个都是可以那我也不晓得是说今年署长有没有时间做这样安排但是呢我想这个旅费统三这件事情它是已经发生了所以搞不好食药署我也不知道你们是不是到底有没有钱可以出去国外茶厂这个你们也要讲清楚你们不能一边说希望人家去国外茶厂结果又把人家旅费全部删光光 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13207.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13214.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
要人家做事又不給人家錢那真的很奇怪的事情啊好所以我就提出我的看法是這樣好 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13218.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13233.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
陳道志委員你有堅持要當初他們答應的是美國萊豬來可以進來那如果是澳洲我們都澳洲可以進口但是澳洲裡面是不能含萊的因為只有來美國萊豬可以進來什麼時候悄悄的悄悄的萊豬就進來了所以沒有茶場嘛一定要茶場 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13240.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13265.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
要查場然後進來那進來之後如果你可以看他你的檢驗率等等等等你可以慢慢放鬆這些規範是可以我現在就是要求這個當初的這麼清楚的政治承諾你不可以當作沒有嘛不可以直接髮夾彎嘛不可以當作沒這件事嘛啊不然行政院要出來道歉啊那趕快查場澳洲趕快去查場然後沒關係啊只要標示清楚大家要吃不吃說不定很好吃說不定大家很願意吃但那不是問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13267.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13294.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那不是問題就是說源頭你答應的是源頭行政院你答應你告訴人民是這樣結果這不知道這幾年來悄悄的什麼時候都進來了連來澳洲的萊豬都進來本來不能進來啊他說只有美國萊豬可以進來啊我的重點就是在這個地方你自己放的圖卡左邊就已經有了嘛我的重點就在這個地方會有半年都看不懂的認識字的都看得懂還有邏輯的應該都看得懂啦來主席我可以再確認一次嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13295.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13313.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
好 現在主席如果剛陳英文說的那個旅費國外旅費通山六成這件事情應該確實是不得了用而且確實是呼應了剛剛署長突然說要去總結那如果要去總結但是我要提的是國外旅費我們還有哪些重要的事情不能今天好像這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13314.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13334.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
藍白的委員關心我們就把國外旅費放在這裡所以也許也可以請署長告訴我們你們現在謹慎而且不得流用的國外旅費的預算到底還可能用在什麼地方而且是事關國人的食安健康會不會後續其他的事情又出來的時候那國人對你們有所期待我們如何回應國人的期待畢竟所有的公務機關都是要為人民服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13335.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13355.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
那接下來我剛講你剛一直強調過去信賴保護原則下在農委會時代我們跟澳洲的合作關係那如果這個你剛講的部分是回應這個圖卡左半邊我還是要拜託署長再清楚說明一次讓更多在場所有關心這個議題不管是現在所有的公務人員或者是委員們理解這件事情然後一路才回溯下來應該這樣才比較合理喔謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13359.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13382.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
謝謝委員這邊的讓我有機會進一步說明那其實西部的旅費的部分呢我沒有辦法馬上現在馬上call停回來我可以做書面的完整的來去說明整體的那原則上最重要的其實這一次在WHA的會議裡面有跟部內的長官們一起去對於WHA重要的會議我們進去前去宣導宣揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13384.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13411.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那第二部分呢 各位提到說澳洲的這個部分因為澳洲的確在於有一點點我們在做實案的時候特別提到說其實是約定俗成已經是傳統上都接受的所以我們沒有特別在針對這個去查那舉個例子因為澳洲它其實已經可以用所謂的萊克多巴胺這個國家所以我去查的時候它就是可以用萊克多巴胺的國家裡面查的場 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13412.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13430.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
所以我查這場他還是可以用萊克多巴胺他的牛肉還是他的豬肉也還是會有這種東西所以我就變成說我去查的目的性是要去查這個場他的關鍵點是要看他有沒有萊克多巴胺他不用查他就已經告訴我他是有了那個邏輯上面會是這樣因為他就允許嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13436.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13455.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那對於假如對如他衛生管理的部分這個部分衛生管理部分因為約定俗成的確是因為這麼多年以來澳洲來的牛的豬肉其實在國內相對於其他國家其實更有所謂的reputation他其實是大家大家信任度是更高的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13455.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13470.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
反而是因為這種前提之下一直以來是這樣所以我們就用過去的一個經驗那也過去的一些剛才講的信賴保護的前提之下呢才會沿用然後沒有特別去查藏來來我們是要處理臨時聽不要失焦休息兩分鐘跟他們兩個人說說不然便當了吃便當了吃吃的比較不會火來 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13484.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13484.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
對呀 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13500.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13500.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13963.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13963.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13985.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13988.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
針對國安食安健康及消費選擇前一加強茶廠針對進口來台的肉品廠加強派員茶廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14000.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14024.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
二 加強查驗進口豬肉提升查驗比率第三 落實產地標示那最後四個字的部分呢回復到溯源追蹤那第四項呢沒有改變 以上那用加強查想吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14032.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14043.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
這包括對因為我就沒有特別針對一個國家但是我們心裡會有一個數那這邊跟委員特別做這樣的報告那王一民委員的臨時提案那我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14054.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14062.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
叫修正通過 沒見好 通過臨時提案全部處理完畢 接下來我們請李坤成委員發言謝謝主席我請 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14084.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14087.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
邱部長先喝口水再上來我們今天約會會通過兒童托育服務法 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14104.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14127.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
有報告 應該會核定那這個我有看到就是說這個就是專為0到2歲的托育利益的專訪然後其中有一項就是說我們保留監視的影像這個儲存30天 然後上傳雲端特別是針對我們的托育機構嘛 對不對其中是不是有這一項那這一項之前是不是也有在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14130.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14157.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
我們之前有一個這個拖延中心監視錄影設備設置及資訊管理利用辦法我們之前是不是有這個辦法我們之前就有可是它是儲存在拖延中心裡面沒有上傳雲端所以我們現在有一個監管雲對我們日後就是我們希望是能夠上傳在地方政府的雲端那現在就是說各個這一個不管是公托私托也有對不對應該是全面性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14158.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14184.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
目前公司裡在自己的通訊中心都有都有嘛對不對但是他們就是自己保存沒有上傳到雲端所以我們現在是要求是各個縣市政府都要設立這個監管雲嗎那經費就是各個縣市政府自己來處理嗎中央我們補助他們中央會補助中央會補助這個地方政府那是只針對這個托育機構公共的托育機構嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14186.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14200.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
我們法令通過之後我們就會補助他就是公司裡都要上雲端都要上雲端就對了然後就是保存30天30日因為其實其實我們也擔心的其實很多這個案件就是說發現說保存在自己的這一個這個脫鈎機構裡面你萬一啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14204.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14228.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
發生事情的時候那通常不知道為什麼這個影片就會找不到所以我們就上場運動當然就是說怎麼去使用它要有相關的配套的措施這個也要兼顧到這一個兒童他們的人權那也包含這個教保員他們的人權我覺得這個就是說這個相關的配套措施要來做好那我再請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14228.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14236.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
因為現在今天是討論這個長照3.0那我們這一個長期照護師的師長也有來嘛那現在我再討論一個就是獨老的問題獨老的問題那現在就是說按照數據來講的話我這裡有2024年的一個數據新北市是全台灣獨老最多的縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14247.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14262.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
總計有18.9萬人然後其實包含這個台北市高雄市也有那我不知道這個衛福部有沒有去統計就是說那到底我們現在這個獨老的狀況是怎麼樣就是說你超過65歲然後在家裡面只有你一個這個長者在有沒有這個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14264.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14285.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那請那個理事長非常感謝委員的關心我跟委員報告我們現在對於所謂獨老我們事實上是有一定的定義就主要指的就是說你的譬如你的這一個子女就兩人兩人都65歲以上這是第一個情況第二個情況可能就是說你有子女可是他不在你所居住的這一個縣市縣市喔就是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14290.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14306.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
在你現在目前的縣市之外就是你的那個照管的那一個的這一個區域嘛那以這一個以這個定義來說的話我們現在目前全台有五萬五萬五千一百二十九人這是有列冊的是不是有列冊關懷 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14308.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14324.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
但是我看這個數據也不一樣啊審計部是說五萬多但是你們自己的這個數據是39萬然後內政部更高內政部是六十幾萬報告委員這個事實上是那個定義的問題內政部他們那邊是指就是說你那個是指那個戶是指那個戶數 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14326.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14355.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那我們的定義比方就是說虛關懷者虛關懷就是我剛剛說的嘛就是說你要符合這兩個要件那其實範圍滿大你們是以縣市比如說好那今天在我三重對然後如果說家裡面有一個65歲自己一個人居住的然後呢可是他子女呢一定要在這一個台北才算嗎那如果說他是在在蘆洲那蘆洲可能稍微近一點啦那在板橋那邊那這樣就這樣就不算了是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14357.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14360.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
那個我們主要的是第一個當然他是自己一個人住 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14361.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14388.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
然後第二個是說他的子女沒有辦法就近的協助他對 可是你們的範圍太大了是跨縣市喔如果跨峽的話大概在鄰近的我們應該是有縣市就是鄰近的部分我們其實是應該是會第一個是他的這個縣市政府可能會評估啦他的子女是不是能夠照顧他如果不能關懷他那他也可以跟我們提出來我們也會列入在我們的獨老的名冊上我意思就是說你們在用跨縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14389.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14406.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那如果是在不是在是同樣的縣市但是不同區那多少人數應該會更多應該這樣講就是說當然戶籍裡面單獨一戶的人就是剛剛提到的那個大概是戶政的資料他的人數是多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14406.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14432.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
可是我們各地方政府在做獨老的這個關懷方式第一個是他可以表達他有需要關懷那這個叫做我們所謂的列冊那我們到今年底大概去年的六月大概是五萬六千人那今年又增加了大概有六萬人那大概我們目前的定義是這個樣子我是討論定義啦我是說你們現在定義是放的就是說比較寬啦就是說你是要跨縣市捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14433.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14453.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
是不是 比如說你在新北 三重 你要跨到基隆 跨到台北然後家裡面只有一個人 這才算是獨老那我意思是說 如果他是住三重但是子女可能在板橋 這樣就不算沒有 他也可以說他有需求 我們也會列入第三個條款就是他認為他有需要 我們就會把他列進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14454.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14475.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
那現在就是說你們對於獨老的照顧有沒有列在你們這個長照3.0裡面我先做兩個回覆第一個就是說剛剛說的你現在說的這一個39萬跟這一個我們6萬中間有相差28萬那我必須要承認這個我們可能有低估 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14475.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14491.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
所以我們現在目前其實賴清德總統他也非常關心這個問題所以我們現在目前會有一個我們現在目前會有一個計畫跟地方政府這邊大家共同我們必須要來做一次全國性的一個設備然後把這一個人數我想就是說真的需要關心的我們會把它提高我覺得需要做一個調查對 沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14494.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14515.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
這個部分也跟委員報告我們已經跟內政部那邊已經開過幾次會了我們這個部分計畫會最近會來推出這是第一個重點第二個重點就是說我們現在目前如果說你有這一個如果是其實跟委員報告其實你雖然是獨老可是也不見得就一定會需要受到照顧因為有些長輩可能我覺得他覺得live alone可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14516.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14531.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
他自己就想要這樣他也不想要受到人家的打擾所以我們現在最重要是有關懷需求者那有關懷需求的話我們現在目前就是說3號3.0這邊會把他列入那這個列入的話就是除了擴大我們現在目前的1966那個部分之外另外我們會加強有關於這剛剛說的獨老的訪視 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14535.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14550.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
就是說這獨老房子現在是各個縣市政府他們自己社會局在做是他們社會局但是我有一些都是民間自己團體在做像一些獨老送餐那些都是民間團體自己在做的包圍那些有一些是他自己其實因為我在台中當過社會局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14551.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14570.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
有很多事實上是我們社會局我們委託我們用那個我們用委辦的方式就是說我們那個名冊給他之後然後呢我們來由他來做送餐我是希望說你們長照3.0把這個獨老這個有需要照顧的要把它列進去啦那有時候他 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14571.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14599.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
他有時候老人家會覺得說我不需要你的照顧但實際上他可能有需要啊所以不是說說我不需要你的照顧那你就啊不用就不用照顧但實際上他可能老人家有說面子或是怎麼樣我覺得這個東西你們自己要去除了他主觀的意願之外一些客觀的一些條件你們也要去做評估啊好的OK好不好好今天就先這樣好謝謝四位理委員謝謝部長翁曉琳翁曉琳翁曉琳委員不在廖偉強委員質詢謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14612.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14613.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
謝謝主席有請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14618.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14632.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
委員好部長好部長長照2.0即將期滿那也要迎接長照3.0是的那也打算放寬我們你們衛福部也打算放寬3.0的試用範圍那在長照3.0上路前因為2.0版本的實施經費從105年開始是從47.97億大概是48億左右到了去年是828億成長了大概17倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14645.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14658.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
那我想要請教一下因為我在資料裡面沒有看到請教未來十年的財務規劃跟裁員說明好 謝謝委員的關心是不是容我請理事長跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14659.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14688.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
感謝委員對於這個問題的關心我跟委員報告我們現在目前的長澳基金到今年上個月已經累積到2036億就是說這個是我們現在目前已經有一個長澳基金的一個累積那也這個裡面根據長福法第15條的規定主要事實上是從菸稅還有房地合一稅還有一證稅那我跟委員報告我們以我們現在目前的使用率跟我們現在目前的退估我跟委員報告10年之內沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14689.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14689.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
沒有問題 財務 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14691.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14715.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
財源沒有問題財務也無虞嘛那根據第15條第3項第2項第3款的規定就算是這裡面如果說有使用率有增加有出現deficit的話那政府還是我們有多重財源那政府最後會負擔保責任會再去補這樣子會用補的方法財源無虞好財源無虞很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14719.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14747.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
那另外大家都知道長照人力也面臨不足那這個年齡層也是逐漸越來越高那所以想要請教未來如果擴大適用的話會需要更多的人力那請問目前增加的長照人力需求推估跟服務需求的人口推估大概是多少那再來就是服務的需求人口推估有沒有包含對於不同失能等級的人數的推估也就是這個研究的部分其實這跟財務都息息相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14750.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14768.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
跟委員報告齁 這個裡面牽涉到就是說就是那個需求啦齁那簡單來說一個是供給端一個需求端供給端需求端的部分我們現在目前齁失能力的話我們現在是以這個13.6813.3那失能力是以7.99這樣下去估算我們就可以估算出一個人一個需求的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14769.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14795.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那供給數的部分的話我們現在目前最主要事實上是造福源造福源我們現在目前是10萬嘛那10萬的部分這裡面我們還會特別是有關機構的部分我們會來強化那現在就是不足啊對不對那我想要另外請問剛剛還有一個問題就是你有針對不同的這個失能等級去做人數的推估嗎因為他可能會需要的需要的服務和細緻度也不一樣嘛好不好所以其實我講我問這個是要提醒你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14796.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14824.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
细致的这个需求供给财务都环环相扣那包含提供服务的人这个是一个很大的问题所以我就进一步告诉你因为根据卫福部你们长照2.0的统计居家照顾B等级的部分在全国服务结构中平均是到达了占比是62.2%但他人力的负荷是持续的增加2023年的时候全国平均每位这个照顾服务员需要服务10.8位长辈 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14825.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14853 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
那甚至在台北市還高達17.7他要照顧17.7位所以目前長照人力負荷已經嚴重的超標那對於這麼高的負荷你們要不要具體的減輕人力負擔的方案好非常感謝委員幫委員那個可能就是我們統計上面我想再跟委員再做一個再請教但是根據我們的一個估計應該是如果是全國的話應該是平均應該是一個造福源服務6.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14855.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14869.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
這是2023年的數據2024年是6.88而不是委員剛剛所說10因為你剛剛說10那個可能是以你那個所謂ABC的B據點可是我們要算全國所以我剛剛講的就是特別針對居家照顧的B的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14870.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14887.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
所以我剛剛就說了就是在這個部分也是很就是從我們查到的數據這個部分是特別的高沒關係我告訴你因為根據這個居家服務聯盟的統計指出照顧服務員的結構老化平均年齡也都超過了50歲25歲以下僅佔3%這是居家服務聯盟的統計數據然後你整體的人力成長也才1.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14893.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14913.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
所以我剛剛講的就是看到他已經出現了這個問題所以我現在才說你們有沒有好好的去盤點你們缺了多少你要怎麼增加因為現在看起來就是很困難嘛所以你可能會說有增加待遇啦等等的我看你們報告裡面有可能有提到一些可是我想喔這是短期之內不是這麼簡單可以解決的所以並不是口 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14914.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14938.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
口號式的方式希望可以更細緻去推動因為我現在就要問下一題了因為長照2.0你的給付的薪資實施之後其實我也看到這個居家照服員的薪資也提高了從3.2萬大概提高到5萬到7萬好像我看到的數字是這樣我看到數據有這樣的情況所以它看起來不錯可是其實它同時也引發了一件事情就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14939.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14959.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
就是發現這個住宿型的機構跟醫療機構專業人才也是大幅的流失可能會跑到這裡來那所以會導致我們的護理師導致我們職能治療師的短缺那剛好這些也都是我們衛福部在主管的所以它整體而言就是你的供給量就是這麼多結果你裡面的比例就失衡了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14961.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14980.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我想要告诉你的是那你们要怎么协作或是你要怎么解决这样的问题因为你单点你解决了这个提高他的待遇结果发现这边的人就跑过来了所以这是导致了整个医疗的不平均失衡所以我这个问题就是说那你要怎么去做你要怎么跨单位协调你要怎么样去达到他的平衡是 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14981.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
15001.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
包委員我想委員對於這塊真的是非常非常專門而且點出重要的問題那我跟委員報告現在目前就是有關於這個人力的部分我們現在特別是有關於這一個居扶員的部分我們現在有這個策略主要我們現在目前是希望就是說區分這裡面有這個核心跟比較屬於這一個不要說邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
15006.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
15029.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
沒有身體接觸的啦這是一個策略另外第二個就是說在機構的部分夜間的部分我們會來強化從新南向國家像印尼還有還有這一個越南引進中階勞動力好次長我剛先點出問題因為時間有限請你們把你們檢討和具體想要做的具體的實施情況不是大標示的可以交一份報告到本席辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
15029.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
15056.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
好的然後以及我另外加一個因為時間有限了其實長照3.0的規劃核心是醫療照顧整合嗎是沒錯那所以包含你們有推出什麼出院準備服務啊大家醫計畫啊資訊管理平台的建置啊我也想要了解一下目前這些整合這個機制的推動進度跟你的關鍵績效指標KPI是什麼你們的你們怎麼去看待這件事情達到有沒有達標先一併的提供給我那另外我要請署長那個我們時效署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
15058.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
15059.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
好 感謝委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
15077.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
15093.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
這邊跟委員做報告那我們在邊境抽驗完之後只要抽驗了我們就會上大概是每一個假如放行是前一天放行隔天的上午11點我們就會更動所以我們在這一次兩批的因為抽驗到所以你認為很精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
15094.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
15116.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
我們是盡量能夠達到精準但是抽菸呢是是random的百分比的沒有辦法在百分之百我們盡量能夠接近好那我也問一下部長那我也相信這個我們豬肉儀表板的公信力希望那上週也質詢之前也有問到部長其實農業部網站也有寫其實什麼進口豬肉只佔台灣消費的10%影響不大對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
15120.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
15143.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
看起來現在的狀況是這樣子你覺得是這樣嗎整體進口的豬肉跟國內豬肉佔比的確是1比9的比例但是我想要請你們看一下PPT那為什麼豬肉儀表板上面出現的是24%然後何況這幾年三年平均是15%那今年爆成60%到市佔率的24%所以這到底準還是不準 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
15147.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15160.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
這邊跟委員說進一步報告那個是國內的豬肉的占比的部分是我們抽驗的時候的比例那其實國內的豬我們放心國外的豬我們沒有那麼放心所以國外的進口就會抽的比例高 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15161.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15178.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
所以這兩個就有一個蠻大的落差對就表示說我們對國外進口的我們其實是眼睛睜得更大抽驗比例會更高的來去做這件事那這兩件事是要統合嗎還是你覺得不需要這兩個數字因為這樣子很讓人覺得很擔憂這個供薪力到底因為兩個數字一個你剛剛說1比90%現在這裡24%那這樣子大家看了會不會覺得說怎麼會這樣一個是實際上的消費端對一個是我們抽驗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15188.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15214.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
那你看到抽菸跟消費端有很大的落差嘛這樣會讓人家更擔心喔 署長你這樣講就代表你抽菸就不准嘛就是因為他的邏輯是在因為國外進來的我們比較不放心而且呢因為現在也允許美國相關的豬肉國際的豬肉 雄來克多巴胺等等可是說國外進來比較不放心所以我們就特別會去有比較高一點點的比例來做抽菸 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15215.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15232.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
可是這就是這兩天大家在吵的嘛就是說這個吃了再多也不會有太大的不良影響所以然後你又說對外國其實又很嚴格那這又很好玩了如果說你覺得都沒影響的話那法規上為什麼本土的要臨檢出那這不就是一個雙標的狀況出現了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15235.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15257.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
我想在訂定這個標準的過程當中其實在110年的時空背景底下我們對於進口豬肉裡面的豬肉的萊克多巴胺的殘留訂了這樣子結果之後那我們有訂標準之後我們就是加強的一個查緝的一個概念因為剛剛這樣子講起來其實邏輯上有一些矛盾啦所以我覺得主要就是要符合民眾安心的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15258.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15287.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
再者剛剛說如果兩種豬肉混在一起那消費者怎麼判斷這兩個豬肉有沒有混到會不會產生他們的疑慮消費者會不知道所以我想因為包含這次的廠商我想這就是一個國人安心的標準你剛才說安心署長不是安全署長安心的標準所以你看這次進口的廠商他說進口到萊豬對他的商譽也有危害所以不僅要求他銷毀不進入市場然後也跟消費者致歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15288.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15297.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
所以我覺得這個東西就是我們今天一直在講的事情就是一個是安心民眾安心的狀況那講到安心的話部長這個有關於美國農業行銷署他有一個叫做NFBAP的制度不曉得部長知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15307.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15330.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
這邊我跟部長報告過好那針對這一塊呢我們覺得我們也非常非常積極的鼓勵未來假如是國內的進口的能夠往這個方向走對樂見其成部長簡單來講署長因為我想可能很多人不見得知道這個叫做就是從未添加乙型受體素的這個深處的養殖場好那這就是所謂的NFBAP的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15330.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15359.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
所以也是說這個2022年的時候農業部跟食藥署有去查場的有六間廠去美國查場的六間廠那在這個NFBAP上面好像都是在這上面的名單請問是不是跟委員做進一步報告我們後來看到的是有特別有這樣子的廠那USDA美國農業部他也是在業者裡面的自主標示我覺得是自主標示那請問你們去查的那六間是不是都屬於在這個名單上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15360.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15381.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
有在六間裡面有五間裡面五間嘛然後一間不在你會看到有一間不在對有一間是不在的那我想要問一下所以我國從進口美珠的這些來源的牧場總共有幾場那是不是都在這53個名單裡還是說其實就像你剛剛說有一間不是所以其實是也有沒有參加這個計畫的來源是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15382.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15391.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
我們在按照所謂的系統性查核向下 讓系統查核之後能夠允許的他們就可以做進口 那大概是這樣子的一個狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15393.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15414.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
所以署長我想要講的事情是其實剛剛也是在吵當初所謂行政院他就是說這個所有的萊豬都從美國來那其他的地方都沒有查所以最終我們要講的事情是通過這些事件我們就是再一次的希望我們的食藥署可以讓人家感讓民眾感到安心讓民眾感到安心你應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15416.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15430.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
更加積極因為你一直說安心的署長可是你一開始講的話好像是說這個跟科學違背所以我就好像開放了讓大家感覺到沒有被保護的感覺所以我想要小結一下我是不知道衛福部有沒有什麼壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15431.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15441.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
但我知道這個本來大張旗鼓其實要號稱要保障全民食安的這個安心的主管機關有剛剛講到有這個雙標的狀況出現包含讓人家覺得為什麼外國可以有來濟那國內不一定要零檢出其實這讓民眾也對於食安憂心忡忡 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15453.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15478.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
所以對於國外號稱沒有萊劑的食品又違背了自己過去的承諾雖然當時不是你們做但是沒有好好的去考察跟把關所以希望這一部分請我們衛福部回去檢討並且落實今天的臨時提案那我最後還是要跟署長講一句話還要強調一下其實不是通過一句透過科學檢驗就當作明顯死金牌其實安心跟安全一直是兩回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15479.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15496.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
所以部長如果沒有想清楚這件事的話其實讓民眾實在安心這件事情是做不到的所以這部分請我們的部長跟署長回去好好的再去思索一下應該怎麼去做才可以讓民眾安心謝謝謝謝謝謝另外一邊謝謝部長來 接著我們請陳培宇委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15507.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15526.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
好 謝謝主席那我先請社家署 謝謝先請部長 抱歉抱歉抱歉 請問就好來好部長我想要跟你討論一下但我相信這個議題應該在衛福部討論過也跟縣市政府討論過就是我現在任養的服務選區是連江縣跟金門縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15527.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15556.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
那現在連江縣就是大家認識的馬祖是全台灣唯一沒有部立醫院的縣市那我聽地方人士跟我們討論過說當年也曾經有討論過可是會不會是縣市政府他們沒有這個意願那導致我們現在很多事情都要後送那後送的話可能有很多居民會擔心到會不會是我跟政治人物比較熟我比較容易被後送什麼的好像這個明明是照顧人民的醫療權益卻變成某一種政治工作的福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15557.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15580.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
我覺得我們衛福部有需要對這件事情公開說明一下部長你怎麼看過去跟連江縣政府的溝通跟未來我們可以怎麼跟鄉親交代是的非常謝謝委員關心我們連江縣的醫療連江縣的醫療其實是我們投注部裡面投注很多的資源的一個地方包括最近我們跟他們買了一個通貨買CTCT跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15585.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15605.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
還有加上AI所以其實可以很清楚的來看出病人的一個問題那至於說身口不利醫院裡面他們我們當然過去幾年都有互動但是後來是連江縣表示就是表示說沒有這種意願這樣子是因為錢的關係嗎部長這個醫療資源的分配的問題你覺得是他們是因為錢的關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15613.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15637.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
因為什麼關係我大概也不敢去臆測但是從過去到現在我整個追溯和整個過程原來是有這種意願但是真的討論以後他們還是覺得保持這樣子是好的但是基本上醫護會是絕對就是說有需要我們就待會提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15639.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15665.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
媽祖也是在做 其實很多醫院 台北的很多醫院我知道有在做醫療協助 都在做很多的協助如果有任何的需要 會請委員繼續提出來好 沒問題 加強 但現在來講因為那邊的醫師都是我好朋友也許很多是你的學生因為都在台灣來受訓 所以我們都是瞭解所以可以說是溝通無礙 但是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15666.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15687.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
委員要提高他的整個品質這個部分我們一定一起來努力好而且我其實也很擔心後續財化法很多錢回到地方去但是地方上有沒有好的監督機制好的問政施政品質來照顧人民的醫療需求所以我這個部分會持續再跟各位討論好謝謝部長那部長請回那社交署請留步謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15689.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15708.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
好我想快速跟社交署討論一下關於個人助理協助在自立生活支持的部分因為我們從特教一路走來發現很多身心障礙的朋友他們很希望透過個人助理協助可以自立生活其實也可以減少身邊家人跟社會的負擔而且其實俊翰律師之前有提到過 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15709.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15734.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
目前我们发现几个问题一个是申请的时数跟核定的时数落差很大可能他是我们现在手上好几个案例例如说一个案例他是说他申请了120几个小时但是经过地方政府的审议之后呢他最后只核定了三分之一那我们当然知道资源有限人力有限的情况下我们回过头来看这些个案的困境这个审议的结果他们收到之后基本上在现行的法规里面他们没有 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15734.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15760.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
申訴的機制他們沒有回復這個結果的機制跟管道導致於他們只能默默的接受雖然非常非常的不足所以我剛剛說我不知道是人力的問題還是資源的問題而且假設假設真的有一天他們可以申請救濟那在救濟期間的時數又是如何認定那你可能覺得我提到這個救濟很莫名其妙我等一下會來說另外一個事情還有就是目前我們申請的辦法是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15761.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15783.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
假設他的戶籍地在台中啊台南啊高雄但是他的工作地可能在台北或是他剛剛講的我說的那些地方以外的地方他在台北工作那但是因為他的戶籍在其他地方所以他就必須送回戶籍地的所在縣市政府去申請那我們現在不確定這個事情有沒有辦法調整因為如果他的工作地在雙北 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15784.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15809.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
現在很多困境是這樣但是他為什麼一定得送回去沒有別的方法嗎我們覺得我剛剛講這個問題其實都對身心障礙的朋友非常不友善但是我們明明希望透過私立生活的協助真的可以讓他們感覺到自己是有能力的而且自己是可以貢獻自己的專業在這個社會上所以我們來問一下你們目前的私立生活需求評估有沒有相關的法源依據我們來看一下下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15810.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15832.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
我們去找了相關的法源依據在身障權法50跟51條你們都只有說要提供自立生活支持服務可是相關的細則其實我們沒有看見在身障權法個人照顧服務辦法裡面呢第71條也有提到類似的事情可是到底整個委員會的組成啊審議的機制啦申訴的機制救濟的機制其實也都講得不清不楚我們覺得很可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15834.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15850.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
第二個現行自立生活需求評估也欠缺讓障礙者個人陳述意見的機制怎麼說呢我們回到我們在照顧特教孩子們在學校生活中的參與在特教法的相關法規裡面都有保障特教生他們可以參與相關的會議跟討論也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15853.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15877.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
孩子本人或者是法定代理人或是實際照顧者都可以參加相關的專業評估或是相關的會議那我們回到身心障礙者權利公約也就是CRPD裡面其實也提到自立生活跟個人助理協助尤為重要那如果尤為重要身為這個被服務的案主個人他為什麼不能在相關事件上表達他的意見跟他的困境跟他的需求呢我們也覺得很可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15878.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15906.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
我們很多事情都提到公民參與但偏偏身障者這個個人生活自理的部分卻沒有相關的機制還有目前自立生活支持服務的申請是透過戶籍地那我剛剛說那外地工作者的需求又會是什麼那這麼多問題我可不可以快速知道還是說因為我今天時間有限我們沒有辦法立刻回應需要會後跟我們辦公室積極的開會討論呢還是我說的這些事情都不符合你們現在的認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15908.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15924.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
那個報告委員我想我先做一點簡單的說明那我們也很願意再跟大家做討論好那第一個是自立生活的這個法源依據其實我們是生存版50條對沒錯就是我列出來的可是我說剛剛實行的這些細則跟細節包含這些會議啊然後申訴的這些機制啊或者是委員會召開組成的辦法啦相關專家學者是如何訂定啊那為什麼他們看了書面報告就可以決定這個時數這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15937.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15957.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
應該這樣說就是我們其實法律上面是各有一些規定譬如說50條是他需求評估那在生存法第7條其實也有訂到說需求評估其實要的內容而且是要團隊那當然我們是沒有要求說各地方的團隊要怎麼建立這是也希望地方政府是可以因地制宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15959.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15988.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
我們其實在這個自立生活因為團體也跟我們反映過其實希望是生長者可以參與所以我記得我們在討論自立生活的這個需求評估必須經過團隊的這個決策機制的時候有要求地方政府其實應該邀請生長者一起來參與這個討論那我想我們可以再瞭解地方政府他落實的一個情況那另外一個部分剛剛提到的如果他的戶籍地跟工作地不同的部分確實是我們現在是他必須要跟戶籍地申請因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15989.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15995.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
主要是戶籍地我們希望有機會改善因為戶籍地它是要付費我們會後續討論前幾天有個記者會就是有我們共同跟一群12個被性侵的小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
16004.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
16025.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
的家長共同召開那發生了什麼事情就是一個才藝班的老師在他的教室裡面裝監視器然後把孩子帶到那些角落進行性侵跟性殺後來在進行報案的過程當中我們發現其實在你們衛福部相關的會議裡面也提到這個案子是一個照妖鏡看出整個系統的問題我現在就問一個一站式協助服務的事情我們昨天去問了相關司法法治委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
16025.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
16046.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
他們告訴我們確實現在的狀況是有一些縣市政府他們有找一些醫院做所謂一站式服務可是假設我報案的地方是A可是提供一站式服務的醫院在轄區B他就沒有辦法提供服務那我知道你們沒有辦法回答可是我要講這個機制有待精進是不是可以給我們一個快速的承諾我們辦公室會跟你們積極的召開相關會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
16049.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
16060.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
好這個部分應該是我們保護室在處理我會帶回去跟他們好沒關係你不用帶回去因為我會找你討論好不好好當然也是希望你帶回去啦好謝謝好謝謝謝謝謝謝陳委員來接續我們請徐護魁委員質詢謝主席有請部長跟政策謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
16079.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
16107.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
委員好 部長鄭次 午安好 部長這個禮拜天就是母親節所以大概這段時間我都常跑去關懷據點關心我們的長輩 家裡的長輩媽媽祝他們母親節快樂 但是也發現了一些這個過去這個關懷據點呈現了一些軟硬體的一些問題啦 我想保定照顧今天的老人就是照顧明天的自己 這句話你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
16108.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
16126.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
我當然認同認同啦我不是到明天今天已經變老了部長我想過去從我們潘孟安秘書長他當縣長的時候他就一直在推動我們一村裡一據點的一個政策那到我們現在周春米縣長上任之後屏東縣443個村裡裡面我們目前已經佈建了415個據點佈建率高達94%我想這在全國各縣市裡面應該是冠軍的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
16137.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
16160.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
但是這個光靠縣政府的能量是有限的所以我想 柏林我們目前盤點出屏東縣目前有超過四成的據點是設在非公有的空間差不多有最快五成是設在我們的廟宇或是教會那其他就是在一般的民宅或是私人空間當然這樣的一個環境一定是有受到一些的限制包含修繕的問題 設備不足的問題柏林 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
16163.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
16190.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
那我們令人憂心的是我們也發現其中有340處的據點有高達將近九成的空間對我們這些中北市團不友善包含這個無障礙設施啦公共廁所甚至這些廚房都沒有設在外面的住鎮我想這個都是一個隱憂政府針對這樣一個狀況我們是不是有機會我們有機會過去因為衛福部可以補助我們一個活動中心一個修繕甚至興建這部分有機會再來倒三天嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
16193.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16200.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
我想如果有需要我們一定全力以赴去協助就是看每一個地方可能有不同的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16204.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16230.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
以屏東方面不曉得那個你是這邊有沒有非常感謝那個徐委員的關心我跟委員報告那個我在前陣子我屏東我也有常常跑那個周主任那個周縣長問一下這個部分也非常用心我知道那個委員你現在所說的最主要是那個據點那個部分那個整個空間啦還有裡面那個修繕的部分我有一件報告這個部分我們現在目前確實當然你如果可以當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16231.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16246.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
用那個社區活動中心這最好啦但是沒有辦法大家都有活動中心嗎?阿...委員這個部分我們是不是我們回來其實我們有在研究說是不是可以用租金補貼啦阿但是這個部分部長這次 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16248.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16263.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
趕快提出方案好不好,不要說都研究而已啦,我們的市長不可以斷電啦,你都要研究,要研究多久好,我這部分是不是比較緊張?好,超過一半的據點是在我們的輸贏的場域,這都是三星團是提供的是,我了解,提供好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好,好 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16269.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16279.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
我再提出另外一個數據,在屏東有超過6成5的據點每個月共存的人數超過30個,甚至很多都60個,100個以我們的補助標準,一個團善,一星期吃一天,一人費用多少錢?35塊現在物價35塊是要怎麼吃飯? |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16296.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16305.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
我們的限制不是人數 最主要是時段的問題議員你也知道 你有一個整體的一個...也有做到一個星期有10個時段的啊是 要不然你一個月補助一萬兩千塊沒分製作都一萬兩千塊而已 那是要怎麼處理難道不能有一個分級的制度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16320.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16329.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
對 我是建議因為畢竟每個村裡就總共沒工啦有的地方比較人比較少三四十的 也有七八十的 也有八幾個你不能用一萬兩千塊去涵蓋社會的服務據點啦 這真的委員 這個分級的保溫我們是不是也一併啦好不好 一併我們來列入 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16346.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16359.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
我想以我們在看那個總共有的所在的那半五天,如果不是很多三星人士在企業家倒三天,那真的支撐不下去啦,那今天應付我們中央市場要吃飯後就成困難了啦。是啦,我也想問問報告, |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16363.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16390.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
當然這是很重要,我們也希望就是說政府來這邊負責來有一個鼓勵嘛,也引進民間的資源,大家到底來關心我們的鄉親企業嘛是啦,另外一個因為你們有一個點名制度,我不知道你們到底有怎麼樣去點名,點名大家都沒什麼,跟我們這個東西我們是在各據點都有那個刷卡,就用健保卡就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16390.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16405.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
這主要是希望大家比較簡單一點就是他刷卡就表示他今天我相信現在沒有人會要做這個做假這個東西啦 大家都沒搞 開沒搞啦那都自己自掏腰包的很多那個志工媽媽都自己做八天做二天在那裡在服務的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16407.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16423.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
所以我想應該是多支持我們這樣一個據點畢竟這個現在年輕人在打拚 長輩在關懷據點大家共餐做遊戲 然後能夠增加健康這年輕人可以去打拚做工作我想這是大家的共同的努力目標部長 那我要特別再強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16425.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16441.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
114年我們長照的基金編列879億但是用在我們這個據點跟長照站的整合計畫只有35億整體比例這個預防性的支持比例不到4%這是不是有機會用逐年性的部分來做增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16442.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16454.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
不然你做預防的一個照顧,未來就是很大的問題預防性的照顧是現在的趨勢啊對經費就要增加啊提出一個階段性計畫好不好好,提出給你最後我就說,我們都會變老,未來我們都要去據點所以現在做得好,對我們未來也有好處 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16469.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16488.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
希望我相信我們在這個地方政府很努力的狀況之下 中央應該給予更大的一個支持的力道大家來收緊 我想包含空間 包含經費 包含支付上面給予我們更積極正面的一個回應 我想也感謝各位照顧今天的老人 就是照顧現在我們的家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16490.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16514.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
這樣是不是一個月之內將對這個分級的部分給我們一個素面報告好的好謝謝謝謝習主席好謝謝謝謝習主席好謝謝謝謝習主席好謝謝謝謝習主席好謝謝謝謝習主席好謝謝謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主席好謝謝習主� |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16526.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16527.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
謝謝主席 本席邀請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16535.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16550.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我們也針對最近你們公布澳洲的冷凍豬肉豬腳驗出有含萊克多巴胺瘦肉精的部分一週內累計有3批 總重量是70.24噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16553.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16580.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
但是食藥署表示說他沒有超過0.01ppm的限量標準所以沒有辦法去公佈他的流向但是本學要請教如果沒有公佈那未來我們的孩子本學非常重視我們孩子尤其學校營養午餐學童的食安問題所以本學要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16582.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16605.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
那不公佈等於是保障有含萊克多巴胺我們就公告原產地啊公告原產地 不公告流向啊你告訴我們說因為沒有超過所以不公告流向我們不知道他流到哪裡去啊會不會流到學校 會不會流到營養午餐去你賣心就知道他的肉是外來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16606.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16607.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
所以我們還是要希望要保護我們的學童的一個食安安全嘛這一點是非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16623.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16640.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
那現在我們正值美國的這個關稅談判當中本來還是要說明喔也就是來源的標示這一點是絕對不能退讓的因為這個基本還是有一點點讓人民了解的一個範圍是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16645.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16664.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
請說明委員好 這邊跟委員做進一步的說明剛才提到的我們對於 之前委員有特別提到可能對於到加工製品裡面 包裝的製品裡面我們對豬肉的原料的原產地其實一直有在標示那對散裝我們也是有這樣子的標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16664.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16688.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
所以在民眾的資的權利上面其實一直都可以了解那我們對於這個目前看到的一個結果呢也特別鼓勵國內的廠商在進口的時候之前委員特別有提到說沒有特別在萊特多巴胺餵食的一個豬肉的來源未來也是我們加強來去鼓勵你這樣子我們看到了這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16689.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16717.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
你從源頭去管控從源頭管控是非常的重要這也是政府的責任一定要加油好 接下來本席要請教部長長照3.0那這個計畫我們要115年要啟動了那將原來的2.0社區多元的服務的基礎上去強化整個醫療以及照顧的一個政策其中還針對於中重度的這個中重症的照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16718.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16734.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
所以我們看到現在因為台灣老年人口大概20%了即將會達到所以在安養機構的數量本期看到這個數量我會嚇一跳2017年的1099家到2020年剩下1048家此外全台機構住宿式的長照機構截至去年僅有120餘家 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16745.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16766.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
所以高年齡的人口一直增加那我們的等於是需求大於供給在這樣的一個情況之下我們幾個面向你要怎麼樣去解決這個問題人家願意要做那願意要做你的人力要怎麼樣這個來源同時也就是說你要怎麼樣讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16769.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16774.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
這個業者也可以做得下去政府要怎麼去協助去輔導這個非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16777.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16804.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
非常謝謝委員對長照這些老人的關心然後是請次長非常感謝楊雄英委員對我們的長照3.0的一個關心那我想委員所關心應該兩個問題第一個是機構的量能另外第二個是有關薪資的部分量能的部分我跟委員報告這個數字可能有一些需要我們現在目前其實事實上是增加我們機構的那個數目已經增加2794床 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16806.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16823.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
那我們現在目前在多增加833床之後我們是增加到3627這是第一個床數第二個機構的數目你回答本席的是床數本席要告訴你的就是說因為未來我們之所以在明年要提升為這個長照3.0也就是社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16828.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16844.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
市場是有所需求的所以我們要怎麼樣去防範尤其在人力的部分市長人力的部分本期要跟你討論人力的部分有很多因為醫院也缺人 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16845.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16871.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
還有很多醫院的護理人員他也跑到這個美容界去他這個市場是蠻寬廣的那我們也一直在鼓勵我們的護理人員我們要怎麼樣讓他們願意要留下來學校畢業的願意要在這個領域來工作現在在這個領域工作者他願意繼續做所以我們也跟部長一直在討論要怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16874.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16891.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
至少你法你答應 政府黨答應本席說那你這一屆要把這個護病三班比的這個你要入法完成雖然慢了點時間但是我們還是精進去推動但是在他們的薪資我們跟其他國家來比較還是差很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16893.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16915.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
所以這個也就是本席認為說我們必須要從根源你如果只有叫私人機構你把它提高薪資那政府的立場在哪裡所以我們看到面臨到社會的面向是迫切需要的所以我就把這個功課給您也就是在我們的量能以及人力方面還有一個次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16916.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16932.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
還有一個最重要的在他們整個的行政流程上面可以讓他們怎麼樣去簡化本身認為這必須要去做一個好好的研議尤其在整個行政流程方面怎麼讓他們簡化就像他們說的我們照顧人都照顧得很沒有時間了 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16938.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16959.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
當然你不能完全沒有行政那你這個行政方面可以去再更精進簡化他們的流程減低這些照顧者他們的一個時間的壓縮本席認為應該是全方面的你認同嗎你非常認同你就把資料給本席接下來本席還要跟你討論的一個議題部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16962.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16979.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
也就是市長你也先留一下因為現在很多的孩子都到外地去所以我們的長輩已經我們說坐在家裡看天所以失智這些很多我們很不敢好不容易大家推動的關懷戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16981.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16999.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
那這個關懷站得非常好你家有菜你拿菜在那邊剪大家聊聊天非常好11點吃完餐回去看個電視他睡覺這個非常好我真的是超級感動的這個政策我也感謝我們所有的廠商界 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16999.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
17017.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
善心人士大家來幫忙可是你也不能只有很多的委員都提出你也不能只有依靠民間的來照顧我們的長輩我們必須政府要有這個責任來照顧啊比如說你的這個每個月給人家一萬二 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
17019.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
17043.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
的這個伙食費像我們有100個 90幾個對不對 那請教那一餐才多少錢雖然你們一餐基本號稱35塊但是實際上我們的通膨問題已經多少了我們還是要讓長者吃的放心吃的營養啊所以你這個12000多久沒調了 市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
17047.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
17065.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
如果說你升格為我們的CG點的話我們事實上我們是會增加到146萬一年146萬現在就是說會看他就是說他當然要看他的時段我們當然鼓勵就是說能夠多開這個時段的話你就可以拿到你從你的吃開始你的伙食費要怎麼調 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
17068.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
17088.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
這個是最直接的需要啊他長者一定要吃然後我們還要派人把他載回去我們鼓勵他們出來啊付出的是這樣子的愛心所以我們希望大家都有長輩將心比心最重要的他們出來長輩跟長輩講話他很開心甚至我們以前還推動什麼我們還推動幼兒跟長輩一起他很開心 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
17096.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
17109.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
阿公要講歌給孩子聽孩子聽得很開心他要學台語這個是全世界最美的風景所以在這樣的情況之下你們一直點頭你們到底要不要調聲我們的通本這麼嚴肅 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
17111.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
17126.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
那部長 要不要調聲你的版理科從什麼時候開始到現在我們的通盤已經增加了多少你們多久研議告訴我們要增加多少你的儘快是多快 給我一個時間點好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
17132.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
17147.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
我想這個確實也非常重要啦對啊很重要你告訴我時間沒關係請你告訴我時間我們就一個月好不好一個月告訴我們時間到底關懷據點你們要用什麼方式怎麼樣提升要告訴我們好不好好謝謝好謝謝楊委員謝謝部長那接下來我們請楊耀委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
17166.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
17171.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
好 謝謝主席主席請一下長照師 蘇市長委員好市長好 市長我只有問你讓部長跟市長休息一下你能不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
17185.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
17196.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
用最簡單的方式最少的時間大概跟我講一下長照2.0跟長照3.0最大的區別到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
17197.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
17206.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
好那簡單講其實他的基本的理念跟架構其實都是延續的都是以人為本社區為基礎提供連續性的照顧那在3.0要去強化的就是2.0過往跟醫療的那個銜接上面還是沒有很及時所以我們3.0要強化他能夠及時能夠接住銜接上盡量無縫能夠銜接 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
17223.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
17243.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
醫療面向就有很多元所以這一塊是我們一個強化重點第二個強化重點就是我們要導入一些積極的賦能就是配合在醫療這一端接過來之後不管他今天是在家還是今天在社區在這些相關不同場域裡面怎麼樣透過一些怎麼樣的鼓勵機制讓我們的長輩能夠被訓練讓他可以自主生活盡量減少依賴照顧這是第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
17251.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
17275.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
那第三個部分當然會有伴隨因為2.0這邊有一些的檢討的一些服務的不足那這個部分會來積極強化把這樣的一個資源補起來老師我為什麼這樣子問呢因為就是我們從長照1.0 2.0到3.0其實我個人是不大喜歡這樣子的分類長照制度就是一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
17276.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17292.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
那你剛剛講的也是在長照制度裡面加入醫療體系事實上醫療支撐事實上這個本來也是廣義長照的一環我實在是不知道為什麼為什麼你們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17293.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17312.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
一直很喜歡用1.0、2.0、3.0我怕過幾年到10.0所以我才刻意提出這個問題增加醫療的照護其實本身本來就是長照的一環長照是不可能脫離醫療照護的我先問就是說我們長照需求服務的涵蓋率 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17321.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17348.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
是用需求人數推估的需求人數那我問你喔上一次的推估在113年就去年必須要需求的人需求的人數是94萬那衛福部最新的統計數字出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17350.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17375.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
只有將近90萬差距超過5%為什麼委員您提的94萬是在長照2.0的核定本裡面的退估數那我們目前的退估數是因應人工普查的資料出來之後那有一些改變因為2.0的時期當時用的一些相關的參數包括失能率那時候是12.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17376.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17406.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
那到了這個等於在2.0執行的過程裡面因為人口普查又重新公告了已經從12.6調高到13.3所以我們就是重新把這些參數重算那對於過往2.0裡面有一些這個相關的一些身障的一些推估他採取的是高推估跟衰弱的部分也採取高推估那我們就是在這一批整體重新做一些處理低推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17406.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17421.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
我們把它調整因為因為身心障礙者65歲以上的增加幅度高可是他未滿65歲的這一塊他的年輕型的障礙者他其實人數是沒有那樣子的大幅增加所以我們就是改採立推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17422.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17450.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
所以才有這個數字的一個變動我這樣子問呢是因為其實事實上就是要推估本身就是一件很困難的事情啦要精準的推估本來就不過呢因為你推估出來的人數會影響到需求服務涵蓋率對不對所以我希望你們就是我不覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17452.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17479.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
政府必須要把很多數字美化我覺得我現在不是在說你這件事我個人覺得就是應該是多少人數就多少人數我們服務的多少就服務多少總是盡可能的把事情做到最完美這個才是對的總比把數字文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17480.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17506.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
做的美化這個高明的多好不好我大概就是希望你們以後在在推估的時候可以再精準一點因為這個會影響影響影響到後續很多很多東西包括預算的的編列好不好跟委員報告3.0這邊的退估就是用分零了因為我們後來新的調查有分零的失能率好 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17508.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17530.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
台灣今年開始邁入超高齡社會高齡人口的總數已經超過20%我們目前面臨的有關長照比較有問題的是台灣接受長照服務的平均年齡是76歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17532.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17556.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
也就是說在十年後戰後嬰兒潮的人口會在這十年之內會逐步達到長照需求那現在有幾個問題我來人力上你們可能要盡可能的儲備長照所需要的人力另外一個就是我們的財源 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17560.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17583.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
因為戰鬥嬰兒潮的人數太多了占台灣總人口數的占比太高了根據OECD的國家統計長照的支出大概要占GDP的1.8%而且八成為公共長照支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17586.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17615.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
事實上我再講一次長照的總體支出要佔到GDP的1.8%而且其中這1.8%要八成是公共長照支出可是台灣這幾年長照的總支出未達GDP的百分之一公共支出更只佔四成 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17619.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17638.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
假如說比照韓國長照支出佔GDP的1.11.1就好了台灣的長照支出必須要有2600億以上可是今年只編列了900多億也就是說900多億是我們用韓國的1.1%來做比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17648.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17671.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
其實我們現在編列的只有必須編列的4成市長我這段話你有聽懂嗎有好那我想要問一下就是說面對人口結構的變化未來的支出一定會一直上升 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17674.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17701.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
在財源上我們現在單靠遺產稅、菸稅、菸捐和房地合一稅可以支應嗎目前是無餘因為我們現在累積的盈餘現在有2039億在我們的長照基金那我剛才就講了嘛就是說因為我們的公共支出佔比太低嘛人民自行吸收的太高嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17703.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17718.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
所以你才會覺得夠用嘛你假如說是按照OECD的標準八成必須要是公共長照裁員那你是不夠的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17719.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17743.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
這部分也要跟委員說明因為畢竟就是我們不管今天是長照還是小朋友幼兒的照顧其實在國家的立場其實是幫忙家庭一起來照顧大概沒有辦法替代家人照顧所以這個跟這個OECD國家有一些是走福利體系的國家的概念其實是不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17744.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17773.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
就是因為賦稅的問題師長這麼說呢我是覺得台灣這幾年的經濟成長跟台灣邁向高齡化台灣強調福利國政策然後我們把長照做這樣子的定位我覺得我好像不能接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17774.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17792.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
因為福利國家的話基本上的稅負每一個民眾的繳稅的稅負要高那現階段我們台灣的整個的一個稅負大概只有佔14%跟福利國家高達三四成以上是截然不同對不是我現在我現在講的是說是說譬如我這樣子講啦市長你把長照定義為個人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17805.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17830.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
應該是說政府沒有辦法替代家人照顧沒有辦法替代對 是協助家人一起來做照顧就跟小朋友的照顧是一樣的概念所以我們已經沒有 我們不排付了相關的都補給式的都可以提供只是提供的方式是跟著家人一起來我因為時間的關係啦所以我大概也不想佔用其他的同事太多時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17833.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17840.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
就剛剛包括我的題目裡面就大家都覺得你們現在編了900多億從屏東到台中 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17847.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17871.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
到澎湖我相信是全台灣都覺得關懷據點給的經費太少那我也一直強調我向來主張預防勝於治療關懷據點做得好後續的長照支出就會少所以關懷據點這個從伙食到人力這個你們真的必須要很快的把 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17873.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17902.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
把補助金額提高我最後一個問題讓你回去想就是說假如說我們真的真的國家的財政沒有辦法支出很多的長照讓高齡化的台灣可以有一個安定的長照制度來支應老人生活為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17903.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17910.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
為什麼你們從來不考慮從來不考慮走保險制保險制 長照保險或者是保險跟公務預算雙軌這個我讓你待會去想不過我想我會找一天好好的跟你們討論這個問題謝謝市長 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17933.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17939.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
謝謝委員 謝謝市長來 接著我們請劉淑冰委員質詢謝謝主席 那有請邱部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17958.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17968.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
部長好根據衛福部的資料顯示在113年的時候我國長照的服務量的人數達到55.8萬但是長照的服務員僅有10萬421人有嚴重的人力短缺這個情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17975.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17994.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
衛福部的報告當中對於這個策進規劃裡面有提到說長照人力不足多元充實照顧人力有這個必要性那你們提出的方案當中是說跨國合作擴大招募外籍人力的這個政策呢是在衛福部配合教育部的新南向產學合作國際專班那規劃的是專班的畢業生呢畢業後畢業後續留 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
18000.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
18023.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
住宿式的機構來做服務那這是一項新的補充照顧人力的這個途徑跟政策就是一個方向我覺得值得再去討論再就問部長那衛福部他預計說這樣的新南向產學合作專班每年要獲得多少的長照的人力來進入到住宿式的機構服務大概多少人力有估量嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
18026.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
18050.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
那請理事幫忙好請理事長非常感謝劉委員對於這個問題的關心那這個誠如剛剛委員剛剛所說的我們現在目前確實也因應現在目前這一個整個人力不足所以我們現在目前除了本勞之外我們現在目前整個所謂的那個中階勞動力我們現在會從新南向國家到底多少人我重點是你們知道估計多少人嗎我們現在目前設定是一年120 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
18051.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
18072.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
我們現在目前是,我們會逐年,我們現在目前是一年一百二的一年一百二,對沒錯因為一班是四十位嘛所以三班而已,可是這個新南向專班是從一百零六年就開始的,因為有畢業生四年是一百一十年畢業後的時候是一百一十年 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
18074.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
18095.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
那是新的 那你們是應該有弄錯 應該是新型的產業專班才會這種情況那你們是 好 如果是這樣的情況齁 如果是這樣的情況那我們先看看齁那所以這代表說這些人 你剛才說到有120個是在表示說他是在學期間就已經在實習嘛 如果你是真的是新型的部分對不對 等於說他剛剛進入一年級他就再去實習了 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
18096.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
18099.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
我們設定是二專因為這個產業端用人恐急所以我們設計是二專那在二專是長照相關科學的二專所以他在學讀書是一年半 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
18114.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
18125.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
最後一學期才到媒合的這個機構去做實習那實習就要給付基本工資然後畢業之後跟這個提供實習機構跟相關50%費用的這個機構產業要綁約三年在這個機構裡面服務三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
18132.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
18151.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
但是你們這是新型的因為教育部在這部分已經出現了過去你們是因為是新型的部分但是在更早的情況之下是106年就有所謂國際新南向產學合作專班這部分是106年就在進行你們知道嗎尤其是在報告當中也是提到這邊但是你們現在只針對新的部分去進行這是不為不顧我們是從去年開始新的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
18155.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
18182.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
對 那個也是教育部 因為你們都是跟教育部做合作但是事實上因為我們看到的是在監察院在人權委員會的報告當中都有在出現到去年就有人 新南向專班的這個部分就有越南生在工作的場域當中就發生的死亡事件包委員 您現在所說的那應該是教育部那個方案我現在要強調我們現在目前是完完全全只是為我們的長照機構而這個方案是從去年才開始推出 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
18182.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
18199.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
好所以之前的部分可是那個部分那個好我知道了以前說過去那部分是全部的這個所謂的機構是但是最長照就是只有在今年才拉進來的是這樣子的話那如果這麼少的話你們剛才說現在才缺人地有大概缺人地到底缺多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
18200.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
18214.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
因為不是缺了很多嗎那現在就估計是120人在慢慢在進行就對了跟我們報告外籍人力有兩塊這一塊去年新加的是定位是中階品質這個能力比較好那另外一塊還有藍領的 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
18216.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
18236.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
藍領的就是依據就業服務法46條引進來的可以到機構裡面來工作那這塊我們也透過勞動部那邊的修法把本來的本國照服員跟引進藍領移工1比1的人力我們已經修法通過了讓他的1比1的算法是本國的照服員加護理人力加起來1比1 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
18236.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
18256.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
他們的語言能力夠嗎?如果你剛才說像你的二專他們就來一年然後第一年半的時候就進入到語言上去他們語言夠嗎?包括什麼審核標準等等的因為這個新南向的這一塊教育部那邊要求規定他沒有通過語言測驗是要退學的所以是一定會把關讓他語言能夠通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
18258.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
18266.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
好那上次在預算這部分有付了大家多少在這部分的經費在新型產業專班因為我們這塊是跟產業界合作就是住宿機構的這塊他要出50%的經費他提出的需求他是要兩名還是三名還是五名他出50%我們這邊出50% |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
18279.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
18290.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
那我現在有一個問題現在的是你們對這些外籍的就是所謂實習生的部分你們薪水就給基本工資那我們去問一下我們一般的勞工做長照的他們薪水是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
18291.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
18315.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
藍嶺移工的這塊我說不要說移工我說一般的我們的正常的長照在機構是住宿室的機構部分薪水是多少在住宿室機構他基本上他的薪資當然因為是本國對他要留住他他的相關的薪資一定會依據他的能力跟條件大概是平均有多少你們應該有這個數據吧因為是長照人力的缺乏也是可能是低薪的緣故啊對 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
18316.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
18325.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
因為我們住宿型機構大概基本上整個起薪大概都有超過三萬塊可是這個不包括他還會輪班有一些津貼的部分那我們也為了讓本國的資深的這個照服員能夠久任在這個機構所以我們其實從去年就有一支計劃開始就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18341.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18366.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
推動機構你只要願意推薦你機構裡面大概本國的照服員最多兩成的人力來接受培訓培訓完了之後四年期間我們都會給這名受完訓通過測驗的本國的照服員每個月給他五千塊的這個留任解約但是這一部分你會看到他實際上缺了很多那麼預計長照這服務員你們希望說預期到未來是準備到什麼樣一個需求才是夠的供應才是夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18368.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18387.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
因為整個各行各業他基本上是哪邊的這個職場越友善薪資待遇越高必然流動那這個部分還是整個因為沒有辦法提出來因為他是缺工嘛所以你們還引進外籍的尤其是新南向是屬於GDP比我們低的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18388.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18408.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
這部分已經呈現很重要的就是長照人員他們薪水基本上是低的本國低那外勞更是用基本工資他們確實是非常勞工的工作這部分其實應該說要去做很大的改進目前你們有沒有預期說未來這個部分外籍的產權站班預計大家希望能夠補到多少人力目標是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18409.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18426.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
這個部分真的也會受到那個黨的到外面去招生能不能順利進來的還是有一些外交的問題所以沒有目標所以我們設的目標不是整個衛福部可以掌控那我們也積極有跟這個外交部這些相關單位來協助能夠讓這些願意報名進來的學生能夠順利入境 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18433.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18455.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
這部分其實有很大的問題我上次在總預算總質詢的時候問到教育部教育部已經發現說如果這邊有些學校的部分遇到問題的時候他就會做處理甚至今年七月份可能不合法就要關閉那我現在重點是說這部分包括預算還有未來的實施這部分希望是不是能夠在大概一個月大概有初步的這個報告跟我們來做本部本期來做報告好沒問題謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝李二位謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18462.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18489.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
蔡宇 蔡宇 蔡宇委員不在王宏威 王宏威 王宏威委員不在何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳委員不在林楚瑩 林楚瑩 林楚瑩委員不在顏寬恒 顏寬恒 顏寬恒委員不在黃珊珊 黃珊珊 黃珊珊委員不在鄭振淳 鄭振淳 鄭振淳委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18490.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18493.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
那接續請劉建國召委資訊好 謝謝主席 有請部長還有署長知道什麼嗎?對 FDA 不好意思召委好部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18519.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18545.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
這個昨天中華民國養豬協會潘連週理事長在媒體上就這樣表示的說看完進口來豬致敬於四年 想要大宗證明對進口豬肉沒有興趣只有加工廠商會給予成本採購所以不用太擔心這個進口內臟豬腳會影響到國內豬肉只要政府嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向但如果是肉品內臟還是加工品都必須要做到產地標示避免有魚目混豬的情況也保障國內豬籠的權益部長對潘理事長的說法有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18546.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18560.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
現在就是這樣在做但是潘理事長還有這段話的一個重點就是政府要嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向我們到底有沒有嚴格把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18561.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18586.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
因為他在表示嘛一週內連續有三批萊豬進口不可能是包裝錯誤或是巧合嘛畢竟所有的貨物進口都要經過檢驗封櫃然後報關那這一次一週就有兩次澳洲萊豬進來那代表澳洲端沒有確實檢驗這才是問題的所在嘛所以目前台灣在邊境的把關萊豬抽驗已經過了這四年是不是開始有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18587.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18591.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
怎麼說舒服懈怠不然怎麼會有這種事情發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18592.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18621.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
應該不會 是不是 我請署長好 請署長報告委員 有關於澳洲這三批後來我們去追查其實他的後方的製造廠是同一家製造廠 對貿易商的部分是有兩家貿易商進口所以原則上是同一個在同一家製造商的那至於我們在邊境的查查的部分一直以來我們做希望能夠做到更精準智慧型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18622.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18640.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
所以因此在過去一路以來我們看到他的風險並都沒有查到所以他的確是從以前逐批查到後來是降到2到10%的一個查查的比例那2到10%查查比例那我們目前看到雖然這次的檢出值是0.01到0.003ppm |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18643.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18660.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
是小於我們的0.01的標準值但是剛才在先前委員會裡面委員們有一些些特別提醒我們要我們增加了我們剛才也有承諾說我們會讓國人更為安心把XX的比例往上提升這邊也跟委員特別做建議我簡單讓署長講完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18662.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18677.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
那如果是這個讓就是提高檢驗的這樣的一個量能嘛基本上應該要來嚇阻這些事情是應該是沒有多大的問題啦齁但是我現在用一個例子給你做參考齁那個時候你還沒有來當署長這家齁印度的BOSS的香料與調味料 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18679.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18698.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
這個公司在去年6月18日查出紅膠色素產品有蘇丹隆4號12月17號就是去年又被查到這個紅膠色素檢測出蘇丹隆124三個號然後今年2月11號又有辣椒油素質被檢出蘇丹隆2號跟4號這是幾點 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18700.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18724.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
那去年2月27喔我們消息組的新聞稿寫得很清楚無論是邊境或後市場只要檢出蘇丹紅立即停止輸入查驗那簡單講就是說這家MOS公司在去年6月28被查驗後應該就立即停止輸入查驗為什麼它在12月還是在今年的2月11號都還可以持續進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18726.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18734.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
這家BOSS公司是一直在挑戰台灣的邊境茶葉如果說真的他來一次疏忽又被禁來了誰要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18736.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18758.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
這邊跟委員進一步報告這就是因為我們的邊境查驗的系統是智慧型的那它是不得檢出但是檢出了所以我們查驗比例不斷的挑高之後呢是百分之百它其實還沒到港口還沒有進入邊境我們的我們就知道這一家有進馬上就進去去做查查所以才有這個機會能夠這麼精準的把它再查到 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18759.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18788.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
那因為進口商在做這件事情的時候他其實是我們在小署的部分是沒有辦法特別但是我們會予以輔導那因為輔導部分也很困難不在於本署的一個業務的能夠支持但是我們在邊境那決戰在境外的這樣子的心一定是不會改變的以上所以基本上你的意思就是說我們還是有一些防治防備防防制的機制存在但是這好像是廠家就是要跟你賭 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18789.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18814.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
對不對?他就是要跟你賭嘛對,我們看到的情形是這樣的我們食藥署有這麼大的量能可以跟他對賭嗎?我們跟委員報告我們的Border Protection Intelligence就是邊境的智慧茶茶的系統裡面對於這樣子的茶茶已經違規是不得檢出的它自然跳出來的就會變成百分之百只要這個廠家出來馬上就會是每一批 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18815.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18839.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
因為報關的相關資料裡面我們就可以抓得到所以在這邊特別跟委員報告說我們已經在做所謂的精準抽驗上面已經有量能這樣的提升對國人的安全的努力好 現在這樣的場景為什麼不把它列作是一個黑名單對 它就是黑名單OK就是我們知道它是黑名單但是我們就會去你只有它是黑名單它還可以持續的這樣持續的報關來挑戰來跟你賭 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18842.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18866.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
這在貿易的部分他們自由貿易的廠商的部分我覺得應該要有他們我覺得這應該要有個因應之道吧不能這個樣子嘛對不對你當然有相關的機制完備但是他還敢跟你賭那到底是我們我們有什麼調整的空間他連賭都不能賭就是他沒有提供安全足夠的這樣的品質保證的情況之下他都不需要賭了就是主角了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18867.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18890.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
也不用浪費這麼多的人力甚至於還有要用更進步的科技來做專業主角我覺得這樣應該是可以討論的吧謝謝委員我想這個部分我們一定帶回去看怎麼進一步可能不是單單在衛福部事要署這邊我們能夠在跨部會裡面做一些溝通協調看怎麼能夠去努力一個月好不好可以吧問一下這個邊境一個月應該可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18894.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18917.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
因為我們經生的問題我們經不起任何一次的疏忽嘛然後這廠家就是有就是慣性嘛對報告委員這邊其實剛才提到這家廠商真的是在今年1月24號之後我們有停止其輸入的查驗的是已經有這樣子的阻絕的動作今年的1月嘛有停止輸入的查驗嘛對不對是但是你在發生的時候是今年的2月11號啊對所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
18918.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
18938.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
在這種情形之下可能在時序上面呢還有讓他們有進來那我們也很因為我們有這個系統我們就有把它攔下來這時間沒有是正確的嘛對不對是的這時間沒有問題啊所以在1月已經有做了更完整的這樣的一個組決怎麼2月11號又發生了辣椒油素質蘇丹農2號跟4號 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
18939.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
18961.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
對我們就回去我們直接來去跟跨部會裡面我們有機會能夠去做進一步的溝通再跟委員處報告說確實還是有問題的存在啦還是有盲點啦一個月裡面提出我們相關的一些因應作為好我們來進一步的去研擬這是下部委例嘛因為實際上的問題我們就是不容許不容許人民百姓就是不容許我們卸貸啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
18962.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
18987.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
我們就說更積極嘛好不好謝謝委員好那第二件事情也是稍微排的這非常重要部長你看一下署長你們請回頭台灣脈絡超高齡社會大家都很清楚65歲已經超過20%長照需求者人數推估也將高達90萬人以上以因此2026的這個造福專員需求人力將達到造福需求人力將達到這一個12萬但是你目前看 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
18988.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
18997.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
這是往下墜的一個台灣居府人員的成長率從2020年7.79%2021年26%小數領就不再墜數了2022年7.9%2023年1.7%2024年來到1.3%居務員成長率這幾年低迷外我們台灣目前有5萬多的居府嘛然後平均年齡都已經超過50歲未滿25歲才1800僅佔居府的3.6%部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
19016.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
19046.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
還是次長你們怎麼看到現在這個狀況這不僅是會有偏鄉老老照顧現在連居府也都是一樣老老居府的窘境怎麼處理怎麼因應次長非常感謝建國委員對於這個問題的關心我跟委員報告兩個重點第一個其實整個居府現在委員剛剛所說的是2020到2024他那個曲線確實是低但是請委員要注意106年我要注意什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
19046.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
19062.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
不不不 請委員你就慎重講清楚我會非常注意請委員那個那個圖表再推回去來沒有啦 了解就是說我們從剛開辦的時候 他的曲線是這樣上去的是啊所以我們從剛開始的時候是2.5萬現在是10萬嘛所以現在是4倍所以他的曲線是這樣現在有人說說說說 沒錯 是5年 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
19072.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
19097.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
現在也許現在到目前為止現在是目前有點就比較平但是這個部分我們也就是這個市場就是前幾年長照2.0在推的時候前8年也成長非常非常非常迅速最近這幾年是有點比較平滑但是第二點我們現在目前我也同意Williams所說的整個居福源它的平均年齡確實也偏高所以我們現在目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
19098.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
19115.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
也希望能夠在這個部分能夠多能夠來來來多推動跟這一個學校學校端這邊的一個合作來來來加強這邊的這一根年輕化你先點出問題的所在嘛對不對先點出問題的所在嘛對不對先點出問題的所在嘛對不對先點出問題的所在嘛對不對先點出問題的所在嘛對不對先點出問題的所在嘛對不對先點出問題的所在嘛對不對先點出問題的所在嘛對不對先點出問題的所在嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
19122.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
19145.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
你不要用低的才弄出來你要注意一點好不好第二點你就特別提到嘛這個年齡的問題嘛然後再來最主要還是薪資的問題長照大家都非常清楚一年齡的時候平均其實我們都說的比較和緩一些啦說平均還有50億沒有啦 不這麼多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
19147.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
19162.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
其實拜託市長回去可能要再精算一下1.0之前平均1.0才真正的有付出的是多少錢這是第一第二長照2.0從小英上來之後隔年的長照基金長照福華等等陸續推動我們從50來億應該是40 50億變成320億一直到現在800多要進入900多了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
19171.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
19194.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
那將近八年 將近八年的長照相關的幾支戶通通沒有調整這比較有道理 八個黨都沒有人調整你調整什麼 你說我聽因為次長你自己提到薪資的問題嘛 對不對你看喔 小英3年以來 台灣具體工資每年調漲這個表格各位可以看一下嘛一英文的時候 時薪是1220調到126 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
19196.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
19201.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
然後106的時候月薪從2008調到2019一直到114年的一列以後已經來到28590甚至於這個時薪已經調到190了那長照怎麼會相關的幾支戶到現在8年連一個微調通通沒有這太多了 注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
19220.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
19227.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
你就要特別注意這個事情了啊你可以注意到曲線你怎麼不曉得你那個長照幾十分八年那個曲線是平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
19228.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
19251.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
是平的 一定不會動你叫我去管的 因為我住在街外 港外嘛你要叫我去管的 那個白白白你知不知道 會長是醫師嘛 很清楚到醫院如果看到一個數據是白白白代表什麼 你知道嗎早我已經說了嘛 所以要注意嘛白白白你注意嘛 已經不會有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
19253.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
19259.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
對不對現在是要怎樣CPR要怎樣處理注意怎麼會把你完全都那麼動然後我們現在又針對喔衛部又針對長照3.0將讓入什麼有三項嘛第一經醫師診斷危老狀況且是能影響到日常生活第二經醫師診斷為癌末 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
19277.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
19296.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
然後預期壽命低於六個月的私人病患那我們現在在第三項是符合前述條件且符合勞動力中階啦這個技術人力的取得永久居留權的外籍專業人士我們要擴大這個對象嘛對不對我們在擴大對象但我們一直不提升相關的集資戶你怎麼有人你怎麼補起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
19301.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
19311.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
你從很多的面向去處理 要讓更多的這個造福人力長照機構人力 我知道都有在做但是你的誘因在什麼地方 你的鼓勵在什麼地方就處理到說是了 你叫我一直注意啊 我也一直注意看你要回答什麼報告委員 我以後一定會自己會好好注意啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
19325.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
19329.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
非常佩服委員長期以來對這個問題的關心我相信真的是確實誠如委員剛才所說的我想這個需求要再提高長照其實最重要的就是人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
19341.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
19352.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
因為我們也知道人力成本占百分之六十所以這個部分我們現在目前會根據我們的組合長照照顧組合的機制來做一個相關的成本效益分析但是我們現在是這樣啦簡單來講就是說業者應該自己的經驗應該最了解裡面的成本的結構所以你只要業者那邊提出來大家都可以來探討嘛注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
19370.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
19394.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
人家早早就這樣提出來了是你們沒有注意到啦報告委員我們也跟這個居民這邊有跟他們拜託大家說請他們提出但是他們沒有提出其實是不會的啦那我就會特別注意居民到底在做什麼是不是沒關係他們沒有提出啦我會注意他們為什麼沒有提出之後來跟你回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
19395.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
19423.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
但是他們如果有提出那就要換你注意了對 沒錯我要提到一點喔我們 我剛才特別用那個就你基本工資來看待整個這個成長嘛那你怎麼可能會成照相關的給支付標準照理講你也應該參考嘛 評估嘛就像可以依照基本工資啦還是勞健保費率啦物價指數來做微調嘛即便居如沒有提出來至少還是可以來做嘛因為你剛剛特別提到的兩個點的中間的一個點薪資問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
19425.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
19450.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
所以不是只有居府 長照機構的人員基本上都是如此嘛所以是整體來做這個面向來做調查 來做相關的這些可以依據的參考我們應該 時間到了啦 要進到3.0之前就應該來做調整了啦 好不好 普通人會這樣嘛 好不好你們來注意喔 謝謝部長一起注意 一個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
19451.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
19463.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
我們把這個注意事情處理完成,好不好好,謝謝,謝謝大家的注意謝謝,謝謝劉昭偉,全部都在注意啦謝謝部長我們請陳寅委員資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
19480.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
19505.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩先請部長跟呂次長部長好 次長好我上個月到成功的時候我在路邊吃海產結果有一個阿公突然走到我前面然後他袖子捲起來我以為他要打我 嚇一跳結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
19506.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
19535.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
他是露出他手腕上面的手錶然後很得意的把他老婆也叫來說他們就是上次我在就是之前我在2022年有幫這個智慧手環計畫有在花園封兵事辦我們有爭取嘛那2023年我又在幫台東的這個成功和長兵的長者在爭取這個智慧手環的部分那現在目前也都在實施當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
19537.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
19562.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
剛好這對老夫妻他們是其實女兒一個嫁到台北一個嫁到澳洲剛好放假可能回來掃墓也跟我講說因為有這個智慧手環他們真的很放心他們住在偏鄉生活的這些長輩們真的幫助非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
19563.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
19590.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
所以這樣的一個照顧長者的計畫在偏鄉是相當重要的那麼在去年12月5號衛環委員會也已經要求衛福部要規劃臺東花蓮全縣來辦理智慧手環的計畫的時候部長有特別指示說要在一個月內完成評估那我後來也在預算審查的時候提案要求今年要公告辦理那部長你知道現在的進度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
19593.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
19619.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
首先我覺得這樣剛剛那個照片非常的感人真的那也覺得這樣的一個成效很敬佩委員這樣來推動真的是照顧了偏鄉老人那怎麼樣來把它擴大是我們一直在思考的那這是不是醫護會副執行長我再鄭重提醒一下部長你上次就是我們是在12月5號的未還委員會那今天已經幾月幾號了 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
19624.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
19649.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
今年已經5月8號那整整已經過了半年又三天了那要不要講一下你們的進度我們依附會來報告一下首先的確這個委員非常關心這個成功和長兵這個我們的叫做事辦的這個計畫難怪這個委員名義這麼高這個非常這個受到民眾的這個愛戴 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
19650.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
19672.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
我覺得這些話都不重要我比較關心他們什麼時候有手環可以帶對那這個計畫就是剛剛我提有特別講到這是一個試辦的計畫我們從去年1月開始做做到現在才做一年三個月那這個為什麼叫試辦呢因為這個計畫目前我們是跟長照師爭取3500萬的經費來做到目前為止才收案大概將近1200個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
19674.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
19692.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
那在實施上的確還是有一些民眾剛剛這兩位民眾是非常滿意可是也有一些民眾他是就是他覺得這個科技的這個部分他可能不太會使用他可能去種田的時候不方便帶著啦或者說帶很久都忘了充電啊什麼有這些這樣的問題這些是很小的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
19694.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
19713.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
我也有跟台東部立醫院的院長我們都有下鄉後來有下鄉去宣導嘛其實這個都小問題啊是是是但是宣導不知道怎麼用宣導一下而已台東王院長也有告訴我們說這個事辦計畫他兩年完成就是到今年底完成的時候會有一個完整的評估報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
19714.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
19739.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
那所以我們想說既然是你現在是在打部長的臉嗎因為部長有跟我講說就是你們一個月內完成評估你現在上來講兩年這樣誰說了算啊因為我們確實有進去開始評估就是說這個台東縣這個超過65歲的老人就有4萬多人那現在將近1100萬人就花了3500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
19741.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
19765.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
哇 不好意思你講到這個 講到重點了 錢我們台東人的命比較不值錢是嗎當然不是 當然不是 只是說政府經費一定要編預算預先編才會有經費出來嘛那你臨時要生出這麼多錢有時候不太容易這樣子啊我看你很不會說話部長還是次長你要不要救他一下 我完全聽不下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
19767.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
19780.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
就是所以你結論什麼是我們不要辦呢還是怎麼樣不是我們繼續把這個吃飯計畫把它完整評估完整然後再來那如果兩年後還有人不會用我們這個計畫就來取消是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
19783.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
19808.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
你在評估的過程當中你發現問題你們有沒有立刻去解決你們有沒有嘗試著去解決發現問題我們再來修正啊 譬如說今天我去我下鄉去看的時候我都有發現說因為你們如果假如是老人家不會使用他是因為講一下你沒有去講啊那畫中那麼多的部落你不會請說有族語的人去講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
19809.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
19834.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
去示範一下我那天去了那幾個部落那文件站講一下大家就都會了啊那表示在試用帶這麼久的過程當中你們都沒有好好去講去教嘛啊老人家多花一點時間講慢一點給他重複個兩三次也沒有關係啊但是這過程你們有沒有做呢我覺得這個要檢討的好像是你們自己耶不是檢討那些老人會不會用耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
19835.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
19859.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
不是我的意思是說我們現在光做這1200人台中醫院就已經請了9位專門的人力額外多請9個人來負責輔導幫忙這些民眾來使用就是讓這個民眾在使用上可以更順利所以我們有逐步在改善那因為一開始是不是拜託我們再給我們一點時間我們再努力一下這樣子那個市長有沒有要補充什麼你督導負責督導這個業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
19862.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
19874.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
還是應該部長來直接做裁示好我想那個就趕快去檢討那個在推動當中不能說到最後才檢討部長我先跟你講實際的狀況啦在從去年12月 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
19880.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
19893.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
5號我質詢完而且您才是之後呢截至一直到昨天這整整幾個月當中我不知道你們衛福部總共聚集在一起針對本期這個要求討論了多少次 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
19895.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
19910.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
有嗎 這個簡單問題醫護會也把這個當成很重要你們很抗拒 我得到的訊息是你們非常抗拒啊就像當初在一開始最初在示範的時候也是大家踢皮球嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
19912.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
19933.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
啊踢來踢去後來是那個後來是薛部長就指示嘛指示就清楚了所以我不知道這過程現在是不是還有說誰人力不足然後誰錢不夠然後想要又踢給誰有沒有別人來做啊不然你不是一個月你有拍板定案說誰負責就好了做不下去就可能能力有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
19935.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
19958.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
這個是麻煩衣服會在負責衣服會的示範計畫現在是部立台東醫院在推那也增加了有九位人力在那邊嘛那我想我們即刻檢討部長我覺得你可能不是很清楚因為主要這個計畫當然戴手錶是簡單的事但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
19961.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
19988.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
有狀況的時候訊息通報了那中間的這個接收的這個單位他必須要立刻去通知來急救的單位那這個中間這個單位他必須要24小時所以他們聘了9個人24小時的在輪那當然衣服會不會擔心啊我現在全線花蓮台東辦下去之後我這9個人我要擴大到多少人第一個人力他們會擔心嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
19989.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
20011.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
再來這個錢是不是要增加嘛那這個部分呢其實我覺得都有可以替大家省錢省人力的方法你們有沒有好好去想一想我們是不是可以配合保全是不是可以配合村里長是不是可以配合造福員有的可以在晚上分擔一點有的白天分擔一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
20013.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
20027.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
阿東也沒有講到重點沒有去動腦筋去想說只有說我們內部人不夠錢不夠就是不夠我才要在這裡提出這樣的計畫難道我們在花東的這些老人家人民就比較不值錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
20028.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
20049.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
要全線這樣辦理起來如果我是獨居的或者是就是說單獨的那種老夫老妻沒有子女照顧的優先這種來處理的話全部全線加起來才多少錢欸可能五億不到欸你花三億救台東救花蓮這些老人家很貴嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
20051.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
20072.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
我們怕人家那個月台掉下去都可以花那麼多錢去做一個那個那個什麼柵欄什麼連垂下來了啊我們這個可以救更多人這個錢為什麼不花那個比例換算起來就比月台那個還便宜是的你們這樣拖時間真的沒道理耶一轉眼半年又過去了不好意思啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
20076.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
20104.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
我想每一條生命不管它是在都市偏鄉都是我們應該要非常愛惜重視的啦所以不會特別而且我們一定我們在醫界其實也是在偏鄉點子都保障的啦而且有額外的那個所以都是那個一定是關心的那所以這個部分我們馬上來檢討那個哪個地方推動有障礙一個好的計畫也是要去克服很多的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
20104.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
20119.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
那克服的就是一種經驗就是一種累積智慧那也許是一個很就形成一個好的模式我們應該往正面來來處理部長那個我再提示一件事就是說這個經費在因為畢竟 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
20124.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
20152.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
我們參考一下啦2023年薛部長當時的財事後來這個是以長照基金來辦理那當初那個封兵的他是用那個花東基金來辦理那因為這個是照顧長者其實也跟長照有關係所以用長照基金也是非常的合理所以這個部分你們也可以朝這個方向去延續去努力我們馬上來給你跟委員報告我請示召委啊因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
20153.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
20183.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
那實在太不像話 用掉我太多時間我本來還有一題有沒有要讓我問這樣子蛤食藥署的我要說萊克多巴胺就等一等 你要讓我問嗎幾分鐘我也是說不完好啦我講一個重要的概念那昭緯先請坐 我怕你太辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
20186.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
20200.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
好 我們就講快一點那因為現在講這個也感謝昭緯安排這個澳洲豬肉檢測萊克多巴胺這樣的題目那我想就是說這個議題它最終的核心價值到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
20202.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
20222.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
那因為我們其實大家都可以不同有不同的想法但是本席是認為說這是要凸顯一個我們大家可以接受的健康風險的一個概念因為我們訂了一個0.01ppm的檢測標準那我相信這是衛福部跟食藥署很慎重考慮之後的可接受風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
20223.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
20242.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
那江署長也公開對媒體表示說每天吃健康也無虞那我相信說江署長的專業一定是有所依據才會發表這麼有信心的喊話那問題的重點是在於民眾還是會擔心那如果有零減豬的豬肉大家肯定還是會優先去購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
20244.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
20270.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
那我這樣講沒錯啦好那可接受的健康風險可分為說主觀的跟客觀可以接受的那衛福部當你們訂出0.01ppm的檢測標準的時候對民眾而言它就是一個客觀的可接受的健康風險但是呢健康是無價的那健康當然他們是不可替代所以人民最重要的資產這不是你政府說安全我們大家就可以放心的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
20271.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
20289.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
那對於這些有害健康的這個任何風險任何理性的民眾都不會願意去承擔那台灣民眾他們比較在意的就是說我們大家最在意的是一個零減出的這個健康風險的一個概念也就是說主觀可接受的這個健康風險其實對很多民眾來講它是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
20291.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
20317.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
那所以署長我這樣講也沒錯嘛那到底這也就是為什麼說這個議題明明有的時候就沒有超標你們也都放行了可是還是要你們來立法院做專報嘛然後接受每一位委員對你們的質詢啊我想大家都很想知道說對於這些檢測出來的豬肉即使是放行了那它的流向流向何去何從 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
20318.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
20339.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
大家都不希望買到這一批豬肉所以你們回答各界的這個態度不要只是告訴民眾說這些豬肉是多麼的合乎標準多麼的無害因為如果你們是這樣的態度這個可能有的這個健康的這些風險你們就是在強迫民眾要拋棄這個民眾自己主觀的這些疑慮然後選擇相信你們自認客觀的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
20345.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
20366.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
那我想就是說大家在不同的世界不同的語言也就如同這個署長說剛剛署長的這個很一個專業的京劇客觀又專業的京劇就是萊豬殘留量合格每天吃也健康無虞所以同樣的道理對於這個學術文獻上的報告有助於這個民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
20369.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
20386.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
實質來提升的健康效益的食品民眾都有意願想要購買來使用那你們卻是要用這種就是說落伍的天花板標準去認定這些不實誇張宣稱涉及這個醫療效能然後讓我們民眾還有這些業者無所適從嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
20387.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
20410.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
那你們就是 這很像是過去那種戒嚴時代對於這個新聞歌曲的政治審查一樣只要提到這個主觀的這些健康效應你們就認為說 啊 阿公阿來啊 阿公會咧 這種宣傳所以沒有辦法容忍大家對於保健食品的主觀感受我今天是特別點出這些也沒有要跟你們做一些專業上的爭論因為這不同世界不同語言嘛 那 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
20411.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
20437.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
我現在就是說其實一般民眾不是醫療專業的人員他沒有能力沒有那個意圖去聲稱涉及醫療效能這些言論除非說你們對於自己的這個醫療專業是很沒有信心的所以你們不能接受民眾的民眾這些主觀可接受的這些風險是零然後也沒有辦法去接受民眾有權利去購買然後可以提升自己的健康狀態的任何食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
20438.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
20461.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
也不能接受說民眾可以表達自己使用保健食品的這些心得嘛所以我希望透過今天這樣子的這個討論是凸顯你們說可能有比較有正向幫助健康保健食品然後人民使用後產生主觀的這個健康意識其實是被箝制的啦我要點出這些而且不被不被允許被討論那好結論齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
20465.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
20494.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
之前質詢你們有就是說也有認同本席也願意就是說在這個那時候質詢完兩個月內食品宣傳廣告認定的這個準則你們要修改那我也知道在如火如荼的進行當中那現在就是說那新的準則修訂好之前法規的命令是個過渡時期那過渡時期那你們現在接下來是要用哪個標準去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
20495.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
20501.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
那新的標準出來 近期或之前被裁罰的可不可以申請退回 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
20503.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
20526.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
這邊先跟委員進一步的報告謝謝委員進來的一些指導特別對於保健食品的功能性的持續的確我們在署內做了非常非常大幅度的一些去討論希望在範圍之內能把它的語句更精準更能夠回到功能性食品上面的能夠標示所以往這邊走是我們持續在努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
20528.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
20556.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
至於說裁罰這個部分因為是因為釋法性我們是雖然說目前一定是所謂的輔導先行的概念那但是在裁罰部分已經有裁罰的部分可能都在地方的衛生局裡面對衛生局那我們現在那你們有沒有辦法在很短期內譬如一週內呢你們把你們的那個正面表列那些認定準則啊好就是那個譬如說得使用的詞句還有得敘述的生理功能的詞句或 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
20557.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
20582.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
類似詞句的這個類似詞句你們可以都把它列出來嗎因為這好像文字獄一樣認為中文好難就時間上面我覺得能不能允許多給我們一點時間我覺得因為做一些改變需要稍微更精準一點點的時間那我們會我們盡快有任何的進度都來跟委員這邊跟進一步的一些交流跟溝通我們會所以等一下我確認一下所以你現在是輔導先行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
20584.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
20611.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
這個輔導先行是一直以來我們都是輔導先行的那就是說你們以那個新的準則的這個方向去做輔導先行其實是現在的準則也是都是輔導先行的好那沒有辦法把類似詞句那個把它詳細列出來我們會盡快的跟委員這邊我們確立之後比較能夠聚焦之後跟委員之間做完整的好所以未來還有類似詞句這樣的字眼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
20612.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
20637.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
呃這些詞句上其實都會有一些修飾之後符合能夠去那你們還是要把它列出來因為我還是回到就是人不一樣的時候你的類似標準就會不一樣就會回到署長用的上次在回答我的質詢的時候用抽象這兩個字但抽象在你罰的時候要明確所以你不能再抽象下去好不好謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
20639.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
20647.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
謝謝陳偉仁、謝謝部長感謝趙薇謝謝不要說得太久啦最後我們請黃國昌主席詢問謝謝趙薇,麻煩有請部長還有廠長事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
20681.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
20695.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
我還在等時間就開始跑了,沒有關係啦,三一提醒而已啦開始今天質詢的主題以前,我先請教一下朱市長市長現在休息期間的時候,還有要同仁聖敦嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
20698.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
20724.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
沒有 從那個事件發生之後就先停止了先停止 以後會繼續嗎現在同仁就是都是都是怎麼樣有一些就是自己放音樂他就會自己站起來沒有啦 同仁如果自願做的話沒有人會禁止嘛像我晚上如果要去健身房深蹲那也是我的選擇嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
20726.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
20753.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
但是我自己要做深蹲 跟我上面的長官用逼迫 可能從你的角度來講太強烈了用你鼓勵 沒有關係啦各方有各方的說法嘛 現在我要確定一件事情你還有繼續鼓勵同仁做深蹲嗎基本上已經沒有了你會不會再要同仁去比福利挺身 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
20755.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
20766.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
那個真的是誤會但是你不會這樣做嗎本來就沒有這樣做那未來也不會嗎當然不會未來也不會我只是要這個承諾啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
20770.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
20792.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
衛福部的調查報告出來各界有很多指教啦我相信部長有看到啦我相信司長也有看到我今天之所以問這個問題我不是要接以前的倉巴是希望我要確保這件事情不會再發生部長可以承諾齁可以好進入今天的主題啊就有關於啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
20794.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
20816.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
豬肉用萊克多巴胺很多委員大家都很關心今天過一個臨時提案我也看到了從我們所謂的客觀可接受的健康風險管理到底萊克多巴胺的劑量多少是客觀可接受對人體不會造成傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
20820.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
20845.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
我來跟委員說說目前定起來因為國內針對牛跟豬牛可食的牛肉部分是0.01ppm那豬肉部分跟其他可食部分是0.01ppm所以這是客觀可接受的健康風險嗎就是在很多獨立的專家食安的專家以及在所以這些專家所建立的標準我們的衛福部也是接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
20846.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
20871.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
當初在整個的討論的過程中後來是有通過這樣的標準在消除這邊要按照這樣的基準來做管理對啊所以我就說你就針對問題回答嘛0.01ppm這件事情是我們的衛福部代表我們政府的立場客觀可接受的風險嘛是嗎是的那所以在這個劑量之下對人體健康不會有傷害嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
20872.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
20897.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
就是沒有證據特別提到他的傷害性是是是我們目前國內養豬的時候可以用來剋奪白鞍嗎目前國內是沒有那為什麼國內要禁止使用剛剛你不是說0.01ppm是客觀的標準是科學的標準是專家討論以後的標準現在我就想不懂了在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
20898.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
20914.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
百分之一百禁用萊克多巴胺他的理由是什麼因為台灣的豬一旦有萊克多巴胺不管劑量有多少都對健康有風險嗎我想應該不是這樣子的那是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
20915.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
20931.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
那是當初的一個背景之下希望對...當初什麼背景?因為國內的豬肉大概佔百分之九十所以相對於進口的有可能允許的情況之下中間那個競合對國人的選擇上面那有提供不一樣的選擇市場上面齁不一樣的選擇是消費者的選擇啊這跟國家法規範的標準是兩回事啊不要混為一談啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
20942.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
20965.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
您今天作為專家作為政務官那我就希望代表政府的立場告訴全台灣人民我們客觀可接受專家的標準到底是什麼嗎現在我就想不懂了如果我們政府的標準是認為0.01ppm是客觀可接受的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
20966.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
20973.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
那為什麼國內的豬肉禁止使用萊克多巴胺我只要不要超過0.01ppm就好啦不是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
20976.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
20996.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
就這個議題上面可能他決定的層次會超越在食藥署在訂定當時安全的一個標準的一個考量之下講的具體一點所謂超越食藥署的標準是如何的超越法我想他是整個行政團隊從是哪個行政團隊很早以來在租目前的這個行政團隊還是也用這個標準嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
20999.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
21026.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
我想在整體上在針對美豬的訂定的時候已經訂完標準我們在所以我現在今天在委員會裡面我們要談科學就來談科學嘛我現在搞不懂啊外國的豬肉可以台灣的豬肉不可以外國的豬肉0.01以下的就是安全台灣0.01以下的還是不安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
21028.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
21044.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
理由到底是什麼台灣的是沒有使用是我知道嘛沒有使用跟法規上面不能使用是兩回事嘛剛剛我已經把這個問題的層次剖析得很清楚了嘛消費者的選擇是消費者的選擇啊消費者他當然有選擇的自由啊我們在資訊的提供上有沒有給消費者選擇的自由那是另外一個層次的事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
21055.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
21079.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
我現在的問題是規範上面的標準為什麼有這樣的差別對待這邊跟委員做進入報告因為這一點是當初在農業部定下所謂國內養豬不用萊克多巴胺是提到的是說希望能夠確保台灣豬肉競爭力所以這部分其實是跨部會在提到這件事情你的意思是什麼沒有使用萊克多巴胺會比較有競爭力是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
21083.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
21103.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
否則你剛講那句話根本不成立啊沒有使用萊克多巴胺會比較有競爭力是這樣嗎這個我不是很確定每一個消費者的想要的奇怪這個不是你剛講的嗎還是你剛的意思是說沒有使用萊克多巴胺會降低競爭力這個是農業部提出來的所以不關衛福部的事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
21104.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
21117.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
這個部分我們是在健康的標準上面的維護所以我今天就跟你討論健康的標準你繞來繞去不敢回答嘛從衛福部的觀點來講0.01ppm以下就是安全的嘛是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
21118.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
21142.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
是吧我們在邊境查查的時候一直用這樣的標準在進行那你在邊境查查為什麼用這個標準因為這個標準以下是安全的嘛對嗎那相對我們在國內的後市場端等等的國內的查查也一樣的用同樣的標準你的意思是說在國內也是用一樣的標準對我們都沒有查到目前還未檢出的所以如果在國內裡面查到0.001ppm的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
21144.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
21162.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
在法規上面是允許的嗎我講的是本國的豬肉在法規上面是允許的嗎0.001ppm就像現在澳洲豬腳查到的量是一樣的目前是不行目前是不行嘛對嘛所以我就在問你嘛差別對待的理由在哪裡嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
21165.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
21185.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
這邊跟委員特別說明了 當初其實應該是在農業部訂下這樣子特別提到了這樣一段話 它是提到說為確保台灣豬肉競爭力 台灣豬絕對不使用瘦肉精對嘛 所以我就問你嘛 確保台灣豬肉競爭力是什麼意思嘛奇怪 打高空 講一些空話 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
21186.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
21212.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
講一些一般人民聽得懂的好不好什麼叫提升台灣豬肉有競爭力就代表的是說不用萊克多巴胺比較有競爭力嘛是不是這樣是嗎還是農業部這句話什麼意思作為衛福部的官員其實您也不是很清楚這個部分的確我們尊重跨部會農業部的說法對啊所以如果連你都看不懂的話一般的消費者怎麼看得懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
21214.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
21235.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
連我們衛福部的官員都看不懂啊一般的消費者怎麼會看得懂啊還是我們現在在政府當官的專門講抽象的打太極講虛無縹緲的搞到農業部那句話是什麼意思連衛福部的官員都聽不懂那一般的人看得懂嗎一般的人看得懂嗎我打開天窗說亮話 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
21244.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
21250.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
台灣豬絕不使用瘦肉精提升國產豬肉競爭力為什麼因為消費者不希望有嘛旅遊就是這樣嘛這有什麼好閃躲的本來就是這個樣子嘛那為什麼一般的消費者不喜歡有萊劑的大家會擔心嘛將心比心嘛站在一般人的觀點來思考這個問題嘛這個事情有這麼複雜嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
21274.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
21287.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
為了要幫一個奇怪的政策辯護繞來繞去 繞來繞去為什麼要做這樣的宣示就是希望台灣的消費者安心事情就這麼簡單嘛部長我說的對不對從民眾的立場來講應該是這樣會比國內做事比較有競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
21298.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
21321.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
你覺得消費者會關心台灣的豬肉有沒有競爭力喔?消費者關心的是台灣的豬肉好不好吃?安不安全?是嗎?他們會比較傾向於買這種新豬肉對嘛!阿你覺得消費者應該要有資的權利嗎?到底有還沒有?消費者有沒有權利知道?當然要有資的權利當然要有資的權利嘛!阿所以如果有驗出的話應不應該要標示? |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
21323.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
21349.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
我們標示原產地就知道他的...你這樣子...部長你這樣回答問題很危險你標的原產地就知道原料的原產地不是啦這樣風險非常的高啦因為有的澳洲的有用有的沒有用嘛那消費者在意的是什麼消費者在意的是說到底有用沒有用嘛剛剛你也承認啊說消費者應該有吃的權利啊所以我才問你啊是不是應該要標示啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
21350.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
21377.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
阿你覺得應不應該標示現在的國內國外的牛豬都是一體試用就是原料原產地的標誌這樣子這個事情未來會不會改變這個事情未來會不會改變現在大家擔心的是第二個層次的事情了啦原產地的標誌會不會堅持我們目前就是啊我知道目前是這樣我的意思是會不會繼續堅持下去啊譬如說美國認為這個是非關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
21380.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
21391.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
障礙那要求台灣改衛福部的立場會不會鬆動衛福部的立場就是站在維護人民的健康跟食安所以會不會鬆動 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
21394.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
21413.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
當然還是人民的利益跟國家的發展這個是我們考量的你講的很有藝術啦我拜託你講一些庶民聽得懂的話啦美國要求原產地標示拿掉台灣政府立場會不會鬆動會還是不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
21415.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
21440.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
你有比較有氣魄的說絕對不會鬆動我跟台灣人民保證衛福部的立場很堅定我們為了要捍衛台灣消費者的權益這件事情的立場我們絕對不鬆動你這樣說就好了嘛衛福部一定保證我們一定要堅持食安至上那至於說那個所以原產地標示你會不會堅持我們就按照這個根據國際的標準的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
21445.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
21467.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
的規定我們按規定來處理啊所以現在的規定是什麼現在的規定是什麼現在的規定就是原料原產地要標示嘛啊這個規定會不會變動會不會隨著美方的壓力而變動其實大家在意的就是這個問題嘛你講的支支吾吾的你直接回答問題有這麼難嗎還是上面有交代這個事情不可以承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
21469.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
21495.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
是有交代是嗎?沒有啦,你如果說有交代我就算了啦因為我為難你沒有意思嘛這沒有交代,我們只是按照大家的所以如果沒有交代,部長你就不用擔心,你就比較努力在這邊就承諾,我承諾原產地的標示我們現在的標準絕對不會鬆動,好不好因為政府是一體的啦所以是會有哪個部會有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
21498.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
21525.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
那這個我也不清楚我們就是一起來討論站在人民第一國家至上的立場我相信含口號都非常會部長真的辛苦真的要擔任這個部長真的很辛苦要想出各式各樣抽象的詞來迴避問題但是我不為難你我只表達一個立場過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
21528.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
21545.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
我們為了國際經貿情勢台灣人讓不過台灣人讓不過為什麼我說是台灣人讓不過從我剛質詢的第一個問題就清楚呈現出來我們讓不過結果換到什麼這個是現在大家在問的問題這是現在大家在問的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
21550.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
21574.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
現在我們要不要退第二步這個是現在大家關心的問題從我得到民間社會絕大多數的反應認為原產定的標示退無可退不能再退了我希望這些人民的聲音部長要放在心裡面好不好可以嗎你沒有發現我已經退一步沒有讓你承諾了 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
21579.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
21586.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
我簡單的要你把這句話放在心裡面,這樣沒有很困難吧?黃委員的話,我永遠都放在心裡好,謝謝好,謝謝黃委員,謝謝部長,辛苦了本日會議詢問全部結束委員顏寬恆、張家俊、伍麗華、翁曉琳所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
21608.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
21627.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
現在作以下決定報告局詢談完畢委員質詢為其答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定本次會議到此結束 現在上會 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
21638.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
21640.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
我以後會注意啦 |