| IVOD_ID |
166470 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166470 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-17T10:22:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-17T10:39:16+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a6d7659fd659acd0a2a31c59529e7a6b212f972bfaabac2cfbddbc901a86fecf2fac930a77093c4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳永康 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:22:59 - 10:39:16 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第22 次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥、國防部部長顧立雄報告「台海與周邊潛在軍事衝突熱點情勢分析與國軍戰備應變整備情形」，並備質詢。） |
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有請國安局蔡局長跟顧部長兩位請蔡局長還有顧部長兩位長官早今天有些問題要向大家請益首先就是國安局講的提到了美國的國家安全戰略國防部也提到了 |
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美国的国家安全战略是哪一年开始有的我向大家做说明1986年高尼法案那么日本的国家安全战略2013年第一个版本出来然后到了2015年安保法 |
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51.741 |
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73.638 |
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集體自衛法然後2022年安保三法那麼高市早苗在上任以後原本是2027年要推出新版本他現在決定2026年就要推出那麼我們都是看別人的國家安全戰略來定位我自己的核心利益我覺得這個非常不妥本席啊已經在過去的10年間 |
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重复的向我们的政府长官提议尤其是国安国防国家安全战略不是军事战略军事战略是赢得胜利战争的胜利国家安全战略是赢得和平如果我们自己没有一个对自己的核心价值去读人家的国安战略来决定 |
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我的重要性提台湾八次六次这个有什么差别那现在用这个图片您看刚才国安局提的这个日本呢有提供了一些他未来部署飞弹我们透过图层就知道他所在的位置那他所在的位置是他部署或者是将来机动能够涵盖的范围 |
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但是并没有涵盖它的sensor所以我们讲的这种战略性的共同图像是大范围的战略态势 卫照 海图 航图武器sensor的图全部套叠上去对我们内部长官的判别就有一个清楚的方法 |
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171.19 |
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所以我一直在强调JCOP共同图像刚才讲的是战略共同图像战术图像火邪的图像那刚才讲的如果去中心化分散配置授权这个涉及到武装冲突法他的承担责任那就是长官将来ROE里面要背书同时这个东西要去纳入 |
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196.344 |
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国防大学子餐教育因为你的子餐教育没有教这个你叫连三讲交联二讲这是没有用的所以所有的图像必须要精准交叉比对我相信这个目前因为国军啊士林营场也没有做这个东西陆军有没有这个力那个海军是不是能够协助解释我们如何能够提供共同图像 |
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234.675 |
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海軍參謀長報告那目前我們大氣局有負責的相關因為我們整個的GPS系統有分六拐跟八四的WGS在這些坐標校正那我們目前大氣局跟內政部還有各部會所需要的圖資包括我們三軍也會在我們勤制式的這個整合下後面我們大氣局可以協助做這個相關的圖資的校正然後跟相關圖資的可以校正完之後怎麼來 |
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235.655 |
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262.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
回到這個整個COP裡面後面我們會提供必要的協助我特別要強調因為到現在我們的陸軍啊作戰區還是用UTM坐標圖 紙本的圖那它跟海空軍的圖完全不能夠比對那即使去中心化你的授權跨部隊的橫向協調沒有共同圖像這是非常高的風險但誠如部長講的如果只是自衛而不是反擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
263.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
287.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那这个授权是没有关系的你现在的海马斯已经是全部素面化将来的滨海作战指挥部机动鱼叉这两个单位是没有办法沟通的因为通讯装备只管不同所以去中心化只是针对各单位做自我防卫的一个火力开放而不是反击这些定位要清楚这些东西如果不在武装冲突法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
288.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
301.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
海上这些法律的在我们的国防大学法律系或者职参教育先去定位清楚变成我们未来的指挥官的一个教学的话只要人一定要拆这个就去掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
302.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
319.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
美軍的DEFCON THREATCOM INFOCOM他都有交叉比對雖然我們現在是兩階段三個不同的方法你提升戰備到應急戰備那這個當然有中心啊不可能中心一夜被摧毀不然我們未來台灣之盾整個concept就被毀掉了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
349.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
台湾之盾就是一个完整的网络结构如果这个地方去掉了其他可以补足但绝对不是直线的这个授权往下走我们再看下一张图这张图是海图周遭的东西可是呢台湾滩在哪里我们国安局的报告台湾滩是四亿那至于啊从平潭岛到厦门岛他执行海上这个搜救任务 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
350.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
373.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
占便宜吃豆腐利用台湾这个名称启扰我们的影响我们的民心士气但是有图一出来清楚解释那这种图在国安局没有国防部也没有因为这是大海区可以协助航图海图路图做校正套叠这个叫做共同图像而不是一个概念性的解释共同图像各位看这个图 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
378.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
402.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這張圖是大的衛星照片根據國際民航組織的圖所有的空軍 中共的訓練空域我們的訓練空域全部要標上去因為你不能影響民航機的飛行那從這個圖像你看到一個大範圍這個時候再根據我們國防部每天公布的這個圖套疊上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
403.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
425.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
请问长官这样子是不是你对周遭的战略态势可以有一个更客观的判断所以说绝对不是用一张图必须用套叠我们国防部也很辛苦每天公布攻击绕台绕台但是你有没有把其他的训练空域标注出来目前没有这个可以努力可以精进我是肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
426.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
449.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那比方讲南海的图周遭的图整个的状况全部在我们国安团队跟国安局要能够分享我希望海军在图的方面因为你们有GIS做校正的能力401厂只是列印把这个图这个能力分享让长官有一个大格局宏观的看法特别讲到这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
456.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
478.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
中共在南海跟菲律宾的问题我特别要强调有关在黄岩岛也就是民主交的中共跟菲律宾因为执法潜在的冲突但是我提过外交部讲根据我们内支部领海法这是我们的主权范围即使你现在没有派人管即使是一个小交群 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
479.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
506.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但这不是菲律宾的权益也不是中共的权益我们的立场要说明因为内政部的领海公布里面在这里面至于刚刚讲的下面的这个什么仁爱交啊先兵交大家只是概念根本不知道在哪里所以我们要把图像做出来然后在跨部会的协商的时候大家才知道这个影响是什么哪些是我们的国家权益哪些是民主的价值这两个不是同步的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
506.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
519.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那现在我特别要提到我们都谈美国的国家安全战略日本的国家安全战略因为这么多年来我们没有我们版本的国家安全战略并不是军事战略所以对 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
520.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
547.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
陸委會海委會內政部能源經濟醫療體系我們純粹使用軍事講所以說有沒有軍事衝突他是有戰略預警的並不是純軍事上剛才部長講的是一個小規模的衝突但不是全面犯台全面犯台的作戰計畫我想聯二我們大家知道反向預算不管是能源要準備醫療體系要準備儲油要準備甚至外匯存底黃金都會有變動所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
548.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
572.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
一定要有自己的国家安全战略才有的国家利益核心目标这个时候军事的从上到下从下到上的支撑才是完整的那同样美国的国家安全战略出来国防战略 军事战略 印太战略包括它的美国的国务院 国防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
573.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
602.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
中情局甚至国会他都有专案小组他的资讯分解分享就是刚才局长讲的跨部会要有一个完整的资讯分享立场不同责任不同但是核心利益要怎么样做化解出来这个就是告诉我们现在我们缺乏的是什么我们没有国家安全战略我们今年出了这个四年期国防总检讨比起上一个版本有进步从48页 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
604.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
633.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
变到59页国防战略从1页半变到4页那我们刚出来的国防战略就是白皮书啊2025年的从183页变到189页内容啊从4页变到6页我们是在进步但是跟周边的国家相比啊我们落后很多为什么呢因为没有一个国家安全战略做总指导所以纯粹用国防部的立场来看 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
634.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
660.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是不够周延的诚如刚才第一个我们执政党的委员讲说我们在杯葛在程序委员会我向大家回应如果执政党在野党的总召跟他的书记长能够在开程序委员会之前先做沟通了解观念就不是在程序委员会投票未反对觉得反对 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
663.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
686.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
請問這個1.25兆裡面在國內增加國內的實力佔比佔有多少五分之一 四分之一這個站會市長委員問的是實力還是自主我們講的這個1.25兆投資在國內的百分比佔多少投資在國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
689.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
704.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個部分我們還要等到我們軍售案的額度確認之後才有辦法去計算我們國內的佔比但是基本上國內的佔比會佔相當大的部分你講的是一個很好的理念 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
705.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
734.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
军售案商售案军售融资总统特别授权法案这四个案子的特别比例搞不清楚那国内就不知道1.25兆是投资但是并不是life cycle support如果你算它的受限受期的维保可能再加2.5兆这个是不在这里面的你1.25兆的建立的是能力并不是量能所以在野党跟执政党是需要做沟通我当然支持我觉得你还不够 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
735.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
744.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你的人才培养你的后勤为宝你这些东西都不在里面了你现在看到只是装备而且美国的厂商看到商机很好大家都来 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
747.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
772.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
表达诚意啊但是很多东西框架上只是在那边细节他也讲不出来啊所以我们提出的建言是什么希望能够努力的执行朝正确方案走我当然支持我还觉得你应该增加了因为你要把后勤为保的life cycle授其成本全部放进去不是只是硬体投资啊所以从这个图看完了以后我们看这张图因为没有国家安全战略 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
773.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
790.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以呢我们只是从纯军事的着眼那友邦呢我们是去看他的我自己的战略意味跟我的核心价值不是去读美国读日本的国家安全战略请问我们政府能不能在国防部国安局 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
791.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
805.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
陆委会内政部所有部会共同努力下希望在这个政府的任期内推出我们的官方版的国家安全战略这样你的有盟才能定义你的核心价值如果这样子看各位看我们有很多大的缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
806.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
823.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
这是努力不够不是各位努力不够是团队的整合不够所以我再次提出来光读别人的国家安全战略而没有产生中华民国官方版的国安战略这有很大的一个落差也就是说你1.25兆的诚意很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
824.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
845.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那一方面讲2030年GDP5%但是1.5呢北造北约是属于社会韧性那在这个1.25到8年的期程里面的那为什么不能在本国的产业能力而是要等美国发架完了才剩下的给我们那你要做一个公平的分配嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
846.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
865.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
報告委員 這個要跟委員報告一下我們在這一次的防衛任性跟不對稱戰力的特別預算裡面我們是一個有計畫性的規劃中間我們會有引進很多新興戰力那這些部分我們都希望落地生產落地建立能量但這個能量不是一天可以建得起來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
866.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
879.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以在這個部分我們除了在特別預算裡面奠定了基礎之外我們也會在後續的年度公務預算裡面去編列讓國內的產業能夠逐漸的成長起來去建立我們國內的量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
880.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
900.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
你这个讲得很好也就是说年度预算跟八年每一年这中间的关系的勾迹那你们请提书面报告我们会支持但是并不是成如第一个这个冯委员讲的为反对而反对因为你根本没有在执政党跟在野党的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
901.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
925.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們講的 黨編啊 召委啊 你根本沒有做溝通 而不是進了會場用投票我們沒有機會跟他溝通啊 我問他也講不出來啊他們哪一個懂細節 他誰懂軍售過程 誰懂DCS那DCS既然有 為什麼不能夠我們的貿易談判代表去抵消我們對美國的貿易順差DCS還包括計轉啊 工合啊 為什麼都不談 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
926.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
946.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那既然FMF军售融资我们已经编了预算我要你贷款但是我可以给你给你东西现在又不给了总统特别授权法案是可以给啊但给的是旧装备啊后续的料配件你要花钱买这些东西执政党的同仁在本会委员会里面他根本搞不清楚啊我的建议是拉高沟通成绩 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
946.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
970.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我们当然支持持续性的国防成长尤其是国家安全战略我们强烈建议务必在这个政府任内推出官方版的国安战略不要光看别人的你自己连我们自己的自传都没有去看别人对我的评价来决定我的未来生涯规划这是不客观不公平的谢谢各位的指教如果有回答请回答好 谢谢委员好 谢谢好 谢谢各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
976.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
976.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
謝謝 |