| IVOD_ID |
166443 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166443 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-15T13:09:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-15T13:24:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d486c5db5da759060153f20525079fc4908415f8fac51cd3611419c23e45606ed6c50673e5555f625ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:09:28 - 13:24:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、經濟部、農業部、交通部、國防部及內政部國土管理署就「全臺垃圾山危機與事業廢棄物去化」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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市委員發言沒問題 |
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請環境部長 謝謝請彭部長 |
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業文好部長想請教一下我們現在因為那個養豬就是廚餘的養豬現在分兩種嘛一種是家戶的話現在是要禁止嘛對不對但是如果是事業事業的部分的話是還可以去養豬對吧那根據你們的資料顯示就是因為禁止廚餘就是家戶的廚餘禁止養豬大概一天會增加593噸 |
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62.799 |
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這是全國的數字嗎全國的數字然後呢現在的廚餘除了養豬之外其他的廚餘大概是一天是791噸所以啊593加上791大概一天要去去化的廚餘是1384噸然後根據你們資料呢總設施量是1100噸 |
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86.972 |
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所以大概會多出284噸必須要透過焚化跟掩埋這是現行的狀況沒錯嘛然後115年的話大概要多出一天要395噸去焚化去化但是因為我現在看到環境部的資料都是全國的總數 |
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105.31 |
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122.164 |
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可是實際上你要處理這個廚餘並不是全國一起統一來調度它是給各縣市的清潔隊或者是以清業者來處理所以換句話說環境部如果負責任的話應該要給大家各縣市的數據我舉個例子來講好了比如說 |
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124.105 |
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新北市新北市他一天三個焚化爐加起來總共可以處理2600噸可是新北市要必須就是所產生出來的垃圾是3000噸他已經有400噸的垃圾他是要移到外縣市來處理那現在如果再把 |
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144.084 |
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廚餘的量加進來新北市的部分那就是不夠啦它等於是又有更多的垃圾要移到外縣市來處理那這個會增加什麼這會增加我們新北市的每一個人處理垃圾的費用譬如說可能以輕業者他因為有更多的垃圾他要移到外縣市去處理他會增加成本那羊毛住在羊身上啊他最後增加成本的錢跟誰收跟我們新北市民來收啊 |
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170.882 |
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所以新北市配合中央的廚餘政策當然這個是環境部為了環境的政策大家都沒有意見可是配套是說怎麼樣在各縣市配合中央之餘中央可以協助不至於說讓新北市民的處理垃圾成本提高特別是在要協助全國調度的部分 |
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192.583 |
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202.355 |
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否則的話可能我們新北市處理你現在給的量其實只看到一個全國台北搞不好沒問題新北搞不好有問題其他縣市又沒問題另外一個縣市又有問題我覺得這樣的一個數據是不夠負責任我不知道說部長能不能跟謝謝委員 |
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208.723 |
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228.662 |
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我澄清一下其實我們都當然我們處理加起來當然有每個縣市的數據新北市目前的量能是平衡的但是它因為新北市目前去化的這個管道像台北市還有一個堆肥廠每天可以處理100多噸那新北市還沒有但是新北市也積極的在開發當中發展當中那它目前的量能並沒有說去化的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
230.243 |
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254.78 |
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這個不夠的一個問題但是也跟委員報告其實這個廚餘我們家戶的部分本來就清潔隊在收不會增加我們的費用不會增加本來是家戶在收而且是隨代徵收所以廚藝的問題在新北市的家戶家庭是沒有問題但是有一些如果餐廳餐廳如果是這個要變成是以清去收的話他當然就會有一定的費用包含的焚燒的費用清運的費用的確是在裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
255.24 |
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273.119 |
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我講是說你現在是認為說新北市可以自己消化自己垃圾嗎這是非常樂觀的狀況目前的情況目前嘛但是如果把未來的儲運進來的話也許就是他們新北市沒有辦法特別是已清的業者我的了解就是說他沒有辦法處理很多都已經移到外縣市了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
273.799 |
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292.956 |
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所以部長你掌握的狀況跟實際上的狀況可能有一定的落差沒有沒有因為我們的廚藥不能夠外送到你是不是各縣市的狀況去掌握一下給一個比較具體的數據每個縣市他的狀況我們都非常清楚我們都跟縣市環保局都有密切的協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
294.787 |
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319.836 |
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可是我了解的不是這樣欸因為你剛剛講說各縣市都可以消化自己的垃圾但我有我實際上了解的狀況除以的話光新北市我剛剛就講了嘛新北市造成的垃圾就是三千噸嘛他的三個焚化爐加起來是兩千六百噸嘛就是有差不多四百噸是要另外去處理的要運到外縣市他們會透過一個協調的機制這就是我了解的狀況嘛但是部長剛剛一直講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
320.936 |
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349.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
沒問題 沒問題甚至於加了廚餘進來都沒問題這是簡單數學的問題沒有沒有 瓜哥我跟你講新北市的目前的這個廚餘是鼓勵他們瀝乾變成是跟垃圾一起去就焚化爐來做那還是會增加啊你本來是可以養豬嘛本來可以養豬現在不行就是會增加這是基本數學問題嘛但是新北市我覺得這個垃圾問題因為是跟民生息息相關啦我覺得不要用一些數字好像就粉飾太平還是你仔細去了解一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
350.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
368.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
可以 沒問題我們跟新北市的狀況因為我們跟你講的狀況跟我實際要有的不一樣我是直接跟環保局的局長直接通電話我們狀況也了解的蠻清楚的你還是除了官方的說法之外也要各方面去打聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
369.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
389.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第二另外我再請教一下因為上禮拜我們在教育委員會核安會有來啦那大家一直針對就是核能如果核電廠如果要研議到底要不要還平這個問題大家都有討論有的民進黨的立委就認為要還平那是還平法的還平不是你講的政策還平 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
390.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那可是因為部長講一個政策環評就讓大家覺得模擬兩可你是認為到底要環評還是不要環評還是政策環評就可以這個部分因為我們也跟那個核安會有過協調因為核安會是指的是游離輻射他需要環評那我們部分環境部的部分是針對對環境影響評估的環評所以基本上我們兩個是不一樣的一個角色但是大家混在一起嘛所以針對環境部的部分如果核電廠研議要環評嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
442.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
包委我們的確有在研議我們是討論這個事情因為按照現在的環評法它是既有的設施重啓或研議是不用環評的但是問題是說它是一個新責任的授予所以很多的人也給我們一些不同的意見所以我們也專門也會再研究各國的這樣的一個到底要不要環評所以是有可能要環評 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
442.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
450.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
基本上委員你們修改了法令光電板5M就要還平了那它這個是幾百公頃你覺得要不要沒有 它是重啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
451.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
473.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
但是他是一個新澤的授予我們講的是新設啊你這是重啟欸重啟是新澤的授予他是一個新澤的授予這不來跟你吵架的好不好沒有沒有那我請教一下那新達電廠火力發電廠他退役的為什麼重啟不用環評那個是不一樣哪裡又不一樣那廢話每一個能源都不一樣啊那我在講核能你講光電那我講火力你又說不一樣這不一樣不一樣委員這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
475.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
485.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個時間還沒有到 因為我覺得他們如果要送一個進來也要到一年多後的一個時間那我們現在還有機會再來那你覺得從期要還評的理由是什麼合電廠從期要還評的理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
491.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
504.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們基本上沒有說我現在重啟要還平啊你剛剛說在研議啊你剛剛是說在研議啊然後你剛剛還質疑啊就是說光電板都要還平了為什麼核電廠 剛剛不是你講的嗎這個是很多人質疑的啊不是不是 那你是部長嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
505.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
532.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你又不是很多人你是部長你的態度嘛所以你覺得要還是不要基本上現在還沒有到達那個時機點那我們也會再來做研究到底哪一個需要那我這樣講我不知道是不是有曲解你的意思你的意思是說你們在演繹當中只是還沒有到時間點所以時間點到了話到時候你會告訴大家要環評還是不要環評是不是基本上這個是一個程序因為我們畢竟環評我們是環境部我們並沒有核能的專業在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
533.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
537.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以基本上這個還是我們會跟那個核安會去做核安會就說不需要核安會就說他們該做都會做 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
540.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
567.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他們就說他們的部分比如說就他們的業務範圍之內到底重啟對環境的影響他們這個部分他們會做啊對啊那現在有講的是環境部自己要不要根據環評法嗎你們要還是不要按照現在的法規是不要嘛可是你剛剛講說對可是你剛剛講說因為各界給你很多意見所以你們還研議當中而且你說像光電板都要環評的為什麼核電研議不要這個是外界給我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
568.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
593.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個是外界給我的質疑外界都有很多意見我們現在問的是環境部的態度嘛基本上現在這個事情還沒有發生所以你現在是要所以是不做要做還是不做還是說到時候再看看我們還在研究當中還在研究就是有可能要做這個主則還是屬於這個何安慧他們要來處理我都聽不懂你到底要講什麼主席你聽得懂他講什麼嗎他聽得懂啊這麼簡單主席他說你聽得懂你就懂嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
593.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
613.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
不是 我的問題這麼簡單是你要求你一開始要求說合二合三演藝要做環評然後你剛剛又講說這不是你的業務是合安會的業務然後我說那是怎麼樣你說但是有很多人給你意見然後呢時間還沒到所以到時候會出來一個決定而且你說光電板都做了核電廠怎麼可以不做所以你的立場是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
614.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
643.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
跳動的浮動的沒有跳動沒有跳動那我現在給你完整時間講到底要做還是不要做這個時間點還沒有到嘛那所以等到那個時間點的時候你會告訴大家要做不做是不是基本上我們還在研究當中嘛所以在研究當中嘛現在就研究要做還是不要做嘛只是時間點還沒到你還不到公佈答案的時候嘛等到時間點到你就要公佈答案要做還是不要做嘛對不對這個不是我公佈的這個還是要我們公佈要不要做環評公佈要不要做環評是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
643.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
662.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
基本上這個是環評法就有規定現在的這個規定不是嘛 你剛剛就說你剛剛講說現在環評法規定不用做但是因為很多人給你意見所以你們在研議要不要做如果要做你可能就修法嘛你的意思就是這樣啊那我現在問你說是不是這個意思你講話變來變去我們有變來變去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
664.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
681.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那是怎樣我以為這時間點都還沒有到時間還沒到那你現在在演繹當中所以我做個簡單結論就是因為時間點還沒到所以你現在無法給大家一個答案就是到底要不要環評嘛但是等到時間到了你就會告訴大家要環評還是不要環評嗎這有去卷你的意思嗎這有去卷你的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
682.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
699.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不是 你 這這麼簡單我們剛剛的對話應該是國小程度的對話吧這中文理解有那麼難嗎為什麼中文沒辦法起到溝通的作用除非你立場跳動嘛你很難自圓其說 你才會變這樣嘛但是你不要來一陣 那你的立場到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
701.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
728.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
基本上現在按照現在的環評法是不需要環評的我當然知道啊我當然知道啊對啊但是你剛剛講說因為很多人給你意見啊所以呢你們在研議要不要做環評啊然後我問你說那要不要你說還沒有到時間點啊所以等到到時候時間點你就會告訴大家要做還是不要做啊我的結論有有違背你的意思嗎而且你剛剛還嗆說哎呦連光電板都要做了為什麼這個這是這是很多人是啊是啊是啊所以很多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
729 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
755.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
用這個立場來跟你建議嘛就是說連光電板都要做環評的為什麼核電研議不要做環評所以你覺得到時候可能會做環評 你們還在研議當中嘛這樣有說 這樣有講錯嗎基本上各個國家的都有不一樣的狀況嘛我們也在看各個國家怎麼去做這個事情嘛所以你在研議中嘛 你在參考所以你在參考各個國家的意見不是 你在參考各個國家的做法你在參考很多人給你的意見但是因為時間還沒到 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
756.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
771.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以你到時候才會決定要不要做環評就這麼簡單你的意思不就這樣嗎我不知道這個我之前也說過就是這個樣子所以你的意思是說有可能要做只是時間點還沒到你不能這樣套我的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
772.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
800.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
沒有啊!那就是你的意思啊!這就是你的意思啊!這個還沒有發生嘛!這就是你的意思!有可能就是有可能要也有可能不要嘛!因為你在演繹當中嘛!你在參考各國做法嘛!然後很多人給你意見嘛!就是這個意思嘛!然後你還講說光電板都要做,為什麼核電演繹不要做?是別人要求的委員,你不要這樣說啊!不是!我是問部長的立場嘛!誰怪你別人有沒有要求?你是部長嘛!每個人會...有的跟你講要做,有的跟你講不要做!像我就覺得不用做啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
800.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
818.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那有人跟你要做 我現在問你是主管機關的態度嘛我又不是問你別人有沒有給你意見你就聽我說的 基本上這個事情有各個國家有各個國家的做法那我們現在按照現在的環評法規是不需要的但是其實也有一派的說這個是新責任的授予 需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
818.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
842.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
但是我們現在會跟那個核安會去討論因為他們是核能的主管機關他到底要做些什麼事情他來他必須要負擔更多的一個責任例如說他這個核子輻射對環境的影響等等他們會比我們專業的多但是我們對公眾參與環保的部分的話全民參與的部分我們也希望他可以參與的參考我們的環評做法可以讓大家可以多一點意見的表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
843.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
860.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我已經問過核安會了 他就是說他們該做就會做不太需要環境部來下指導棋啦好 謝謝他沒有這樣講後面的是我講 但他說他該做都會做委員你不要多講他說的 他都做的他該做的他都會做但你現在又說你要去找他討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
862.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
880.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們也有在討論你又要去找他討論所以你現在的意思就是說和安會做完之後你認為因為很多人給你意見要參考各個做法我沒有這樣講你剛剛就這樣子講的嘛你不要斷章取義喔我沒有這樣講我給你非常多的時間我想在座的包括大家有看質詢都要非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
880.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
899.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
沒有這樣講絕對就只有這樣沒有沒有你就是這個意思我沒有下指導棋喔沒有沒有下指導棋你去找他建議嘛你在受訪還是什麼的時候你就說啊這和安會應該怎樣應該怎樣這不是下指導棋是什麼這是定義的問題嘛那是什麼這是協商啊什麼協商你說和安會要怎樣怎樣怎樣這要協商喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
900.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
918.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個是在命令河安會應該怎樣應該怎樣這不是指導棋這是什麼我覺得一直在去炒那個定義的問題你去叫河安會幹嘛幹嘛幹嘛這是指導棋啊這是什麼我們沒有叫他做什麼是人家詢問說這個是誰的責任當然是河安會他們要做這樣的判斷嘛好沒關係啦謝謝好 謝謝 |