| IVOD_ID |
166442 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166442 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-15T12:52:49+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-15T13:09:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d486c5db5da7590604b3eced960ab835908415f8fac51cd3611419c23e45606ef30caff4e49f2b215ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:52:49 - 13:09:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、經濟部、農業部、交通部、國防部及內政部國土管理署就「全臺垃圾山危機與事業廢棄物去化」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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麻煩請環境部部長請彭部長曾委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
14.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
37.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長好那今天召委特別安排這個全台垃圾山危機和這個事業廢棄物去化的這個專題報告那我看了其實今天與會的列席的各個部會也都很認真的在準備資料想盡辦法不管字體大小都想盡辦法擠出一點內容出來那 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
40.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
53.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
就是說但是這其中我特別關注到內政部的這個報告那當然國土署的部分有關注到這個土方的管理但是我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
55.871 |
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82.143 |
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整個內政部更應該關注到的就是說既然我們今天講的是全台垃圾山這個危機我們首先會遇到危機最近很多這個大火的問題垃圾山起火的問題嘛所以這個消防啊我覺得內政部完全沒有去提到這個講到這個消防的問題我很驚訝所以我也特別在這裡點出 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
83.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
102.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就是說在我們大家共同在面臨這個垃圾山危機的同時那消防的部分可能要請內政部回去要特別留意那當然這個也不是內政部就自己就可以處理這還是要環境部來協助我就做這樣的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
103.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
131.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我也跟你報告因為這個因為我去台南的時候其實就已經請消防署長跟我一直密切的聯繫我們到底可不可以更快的解決那當然啦因為消防署長以前在台中也救過這個野賣場的大火所以他很有經驗然後我也詢問了各種專家這種野賣場的火災怎麼去做處理都是很老的步驟啦是沒關係我們後續會討論到我想我就做這樣子的提醒那政部可以請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
133.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
156.052 |
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那個另外我來替大家問個問題啦就是說因為目前我們廚餘已經就是不給豬吃了嘛那我像很多人都會有這樣的想法就是說那已經不給豬吃了那我們比如說便當啦或家裡的剩菜剩飯嘛我們還需要再做分類嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
184.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
當然現在是非常時期一開始的階段 量能還沒有起來那我知道各個縣市以台北市來說的話他家戶廚餘還是去做堆肥的所以他其實還是要分類那每個縣市狀況有一點點不一樣像新北市他就覺得你把它放在垃圾裡面反正我都去粉化廠燒掉但是你要立竿所以每個縣市有一點點不一樣但是我們未來還是希望做更有效的利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.462 |
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206.748 |
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所以部長結論就是說例如像我常常在各縣市跑行程那我今天到新北我就是把我剩下的這個廚餘把它瀝乾那我去到某個縣市就沒關係全部都把它丟進去那我再到台北市來我可能又要做另外的處理是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
207.708 |
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235.707 |
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其實我們還是希望要分類啦但是因為像我所知道是以新北市來說的話他們因為就是鼓勵大家瀝乾混在垃圾裡面做處理那這樣好不好那個所以部長結論到底是什麼你這樣講我們還是無所適從啦所以在一個時間內我們應該要怎麼辦還是說還是就要看每個人身份證那個開頭還是所在定制在哪裡我們還是期待要分類一定要分類那這樣好不好我這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
262.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們在過了這個非常時期邁入正常的時期之後我們的現在不給豬吃廚餘的前提之下那我們接下來廚餘到底真正應該是要怎麼處理還是要分類該分類廚餘還是廚餘那我們一般家庭裡面到底要準備多少個垃圾桶才夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
265.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
284.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們是沒關係你講個量這樣我們有概念至少要可燃不可燃還有廚餘對啊但是廚餘又要再分類啊所以我要準備多少個桶子來目前廚餘只要瀝乾就可以了不用去再去分生的熟的吧或者有骨頭沒骨頭這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
306.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
是 這個委員思考得很對因為依照它後續再利用的設施例如它如果是去生殖能源化它大概就不用分類那如果是有些堆肥譬如有一些椰子殼等等那還是會被分出來大概是這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
307.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
325.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那这个部分就依照各县市他以后所设的这个设施在收集的时候他清洁队就会去宣导他的桶子应该放在什么地方所以原则上以后可能会分成两桶两桶一个是生殖能源化一个是堆肥 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
345.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好那因為我又聽到你的關鍵字就是還是要未來看每個縣市怎麼樣所以我還是很暈倒就是大家仍然是無所適從的所以這個部分不管你們要分各個縣市還是怎麼樣那我就覺得你們是不是可以落實也協助每個縣市就落實宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
到底廚餘應該要怎麼分類因為每個縣市它的像有的縣市它未來就要做生殖能廠那它就可以照嚴署長說的那有的縣市它未來的主力是這個下水道 驗氧發酵有一個潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
364.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
380.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那他可能就不用特別分類所以我們現在等於是盤點出來的量能未來的量能之後應該可以照委員的建議說能夠再更明確加強宣導那怎麼去做處理所以那你大概預期什麼時候可以達到這個理想的境界 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
381.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
402.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們預計當然這個量能平衡不用去焚化爐大概還要一年多的時間那這個一年多的時間就可以到那個階段那我也請你們就是超前部署提早規劃在這個時間的來臨的時候我們可以怎麼樣大家都做好準備就可以很快上軌道做好分類好不好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
423.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那这个部分我想接下来就是说我们身为民意代表也是必须要来替民众发声那一旦就是说垃圾场的大火发生大量的这个浓烟恶臭造成空气品质是非常不好的我们大家将心比心啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
425.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
居民到底這樣的大火發生的時候居民需不需要暫時撤離或者是發放救助金讓附近的民眾可以離開如果是這樣子的做法有利於這個民眾的健康那環境部是不是應該來好好的規劃一下就是說這些暫時撤離的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
445.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
469.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那包括这个气象啊火势蔓延的程度啊还有这个财务救助的发放标准我想这几个方面呢执行面其实是可以来让地方政府来处理但是我觉得经费的部分还是可以由环境部的掌握的这个基金来支应我不晓得部长评估本席这样的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
469.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
495.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
政策建議 委員這個我們再來思考啦因為我們空污基金可能沒有這樣的特別的一個用途過但是我們的預警是有的 預警是有那我所知道像像台南這次發生這個烏樹林的事因為燒比較久所以他對於這個附近的居民如何去做一些協助回饋等等他們都有在溝通你說有 但我們台東看起來都是無預警啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
516.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
無預警也無所適從那這個部分未來我們如果針對這種大型的災害的這個戰事場的分佈如果未來遇到著火的時候怎麼去建議怎麼去處理或許我們可以在這個後面的這個細節裡面接下來我想跟部長稍微就討論一下這個狀況因為我們就從近期台東縣發生了兩場大火來請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
523.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
548.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
最近一場是2025年7月5號發生在我們台東北南鄉山里野蠻場的這個火警那猜測是這個廢棄物堆積發酵產熱然後氣候乾燥風勢又很強勁所引起的那但是真正的起火原因上代釐清目前大家還不是很清楚那這一場火燃燒的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
551.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
573.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
面積大概有這個400平方公尺左右那因為產生大量的這個濃煙惡臭呢影響到居民的生活所以迫使當地的居民呢必須要暫時的撤離那就是也因此引發了就是說大家對於掩埋場管理還有焚化爐去化能力不足的這些關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
574.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
要求政府要加速處理堆積垃圾還有這個早氣的問題那部長我就想請教就是說火災發生的時間是在上午9點35分那為什麼大白天了還是沒有辦法在第一時間開始救火呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
591.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
620.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個案子我不太清楚可能是通常這個就是說要不斷的灑水噴水那其實因為它的量體如果掩埋場的量體都要很大那其實以我們最近看到幾個例子它要灑水要噴水其實不見得馬上就有效不過每個地方不一樣它的可能是我猜的是它的水線可能沒有很完整所以才會造成這樣的結果所以目前未來對於這種掩埋場它的監控甚至灑水系統等等舊的話我們都要再提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
621.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
641.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為當然燃燒的三要素就是溫度、氧氣跟可燃物部長是氣象專家但是火災爆炸他是另外一個專業了我們也請教過專家就是氣體它會閃燃只要溫度到了就會自動燃燒起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
671.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那像這種由這個早期引燃火災的這個起火燃點呢都比較低那你們的這個國家環境研究院呢應該趕快去蒐集資料然後就是說跟這個模擬實驗那針對過去的大火天候的因素去做分析然後同時把這些結果呢提供給地方的環保局跟這個各個垃圾場去做有效的監督管理對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
672.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
696.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
謝謝委員這個建議這個現在我有特別交代我們化學署跟防管署我們要跟那個消防署合作這個是事前的這個預防那這個要做還有一個就是怎麼救就兩個事前的預防像委員講到這個就是燃燒的三要素很重要那因為這個這個掩埋場的火災跟那個一般的家裡的火災是不一樣的所以我們要專門請他們那種消防專業來針對我們來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
698.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
719.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
而且我們全台有400多個掩埋場其實每一個掩埋場狀況其實都不太一樣所以他們應該逐一都去做分析研究對好那其次就是不同的可燃物有不同的救災方式那電氣火災跟一般的這個住家火災還有滅火器跟這個救災的策略是不太一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
719.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
735.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那最近從這個台南烏樹林的大火不斷的這個復燒我是擔心是不是說我們的救災設備跟滅火物質可以有更好更新的技術那剛剛部長也有提到就是說我們那個救災的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
737.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
764.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
救火的方式其實是非常傳統的那尤其是這種大面積的燃燒那消防人員跟車輛其實是很難靠近的還有有這個就是說由這個相關基金應該是說環境部我們是不是針對這個垃圾場的大火由這個相關的基金提供經費給這個消防署讓他們引進新的救災技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
765.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
784.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
部長有沒有覺得這個可行性謝謝委員的建議我們的確是希望跟消防署合作一個研究計畫我們來出錢先來研究說這個怎麼救因為我也聽到說很多人國外說有一個弄一個很大的防火毯整個蓋上去但是那個毯子要很大然後或是說有一些特別的化學藥劑 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
785.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
811.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
冷卻降溫很多人都提供給我一些意見啦但是其實我是認為還是要請消防專家整個幫我們看這種火要怎麼救因為目前我所看到的實際上第一線的人他還是用灑水來降溫啦所以這個的確是不夠所以委員你說的就是我們現在想要做的所以這個部分如果需要環境部經費挹注協助這個消防署的話也請你們不吝於 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
811.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
837.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是 我們現在準備要這樣做希望能夠來規劃一下對 那因為最後的另外一個點是在那個台東台東市的建農垃圾掩埋場的大火那這場大火是發生在凌晨1點15分起火的連燒了很多天那因為火勢很猛烈濃煙惡臭影響到附近的居民所以呢部分的居民都需要暫時的安置後續呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
838.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
864.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
里長很辛苦啦里長也都帶著居民到這個議會去澄清那要求就是要處理這個堆積的垃圾跟早氣喔避免說重蹈覆轍那其實我的原因也是大概就是不離天氣乾燥廢棄物自然還有早氣的累積啦那這邊要強調最後要強調就是說我們台東縣的這個天候的因素特別是在大武那邊喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
866.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
881.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
有焚風啊所以這個很恐怖啊也因此就是說垃圾場呢更容易有出現自然的這個火災那我們整個台東縣其實天氣都是非常熱的喔那地方政府的經費跟資源是有限只要發生這種火災呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
882.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
900.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
都會造成民眾可能會被迫要撤離家園而且可能是在白天也有可能是在深夜那我們不確定這樣子的火災風險是真的讓附近的民眾大家最近都人心惶惶生活很不安那具體的撤離標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
901.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
921.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那救助金的補助還有研究垃圾自然起火的條件跟提升監督管理的效能我們也需要這個消防救災的單位針對這種垃圾山火災具有最新最有效的控制方法能夠盡早的發現盡早啟動有效的救災 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
924.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
943.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
讓我們可以減少空氣污染的這個對於健康的影響那這些我們需要像部長這樣有專業有使命的環境部部長來支持那我想以上建議部長今天是否都可以委員你說的就是我想做的但是你特別點到了台東 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
944.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
969.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
特別的條件特別是有焚風等等的地理條件的特性那我們這邊會到時候把台東的狀況把它考慮進去到時候我們完成的部分如果有一些需要改進的部分也請委員給我們一些指教因為不只焚風我們整體的氣溫就是比較高是好沒問題我們會來辦理好那那個內政部也麻煩把本席的建議帶回去好謝謝謝謝陳英委員發言 |