| IVOD_ID |
166437 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166437 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-15T12:27:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-15T12:39:09+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d486c5db5da759069e12de137fb5aecb3d053df696e011f86697ca1ee740c94bbe8a7296b23f08fd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:27:11 - 12:39:09 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長及環境部首長就「2027年全面禁止廚餘養豬」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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感謝主席我要講久一點因為陳冠廷委員特別拜託請部長跟次長請部長說明一下到底是黑水盟還是黑水盲 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
20.083 |
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我們要讓嘉義縣兩位委員的說法要口徑要一致黑水蒙吧 黑水蒙好 那個議員已經有聽到了我來接續剛剛 剛剛先針對那個環境部次長的這個戰事的垃圾處理的方式因為在委員會今天也排這個專欄報告平均兩個星期 |
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44.927 |
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就有一個戰車垃圾處理的堆置場火燒了所以它已經不叫做險惡設施它叫做環境危險的設施兩個禮拜就一次中央環境部都有在監控我們還持續不斷的讓它持續在發生那我剛剛是根本跟本部長講說你們到現在還在訂指引沒法啦太遜了應該是從幫我去修訂甚至於我們委員會都可以來修法講程要分明了 |
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75.323 |
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講成要很積極的讓地方政府在垃圾戰時對市長裡面他應該要什麼樣的一個規範他應該面對到這樣的火災他必須應該接受到什麼樣的懲處我覺得這個是要請市長特別明確的來跟委會做這樣一個說明可以吧 |
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95.165 |
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121.25 |
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好 謝委員關心這個議題我想這個的確是很多縣市都有這樣的一個情況發生我們也一再的提醒 一再的發文但是事情還是在發生對 所以現在訂資營已經來不及了是 它只是一個行政指導而且剛剛部長達夫跟海明的報告是兩個 是今年的 明年的2月才會把資營訂出來也邀請專家學者還有地方的相關的這些單位來做討論那怎麼需要討論 訂一個資營還要兩三個月 |
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124.097 |
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152.31 |
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所以我想說剛剛委員會排的這個專案報告你不要這個禮拜又燒一次哪一個縣市又燒一次還是剛剛講的嘉義市又燒一次所以特別再拜託次長好不好那第二件事情我請陳部長還有營養環境部的次長我們可能要重新定義廚餘廚餘到底要怎麼定義這個可能要請你們好好說明一下因為政策的成敗在於有沒有系統性且有邏輯的處理的問題 |
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154.617 |
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182.923 |
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目前的邏輯斷成在於我們政府切斷了廚餘養豬那既然這條路已經確定明確要這樣走下去了但是原有的廚餘總量它不會消失它不可能憑空消失嘛那你看現在我們有沒有辦法精準的去區分到所謂的高風險廚餘還有所謂的什麼叫可利用的資源所有的廚餘廢棄物如果再這樣下去一定會塞爆我們所有的焚化廠 |
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183.82 |
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212.108 |
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跟我們的堆灰廠一定會馬上發生而且你看地方政府一直跟中央不會同調我們現在核心的邏輯問題是台北市廚餘全數堆毀處理不再分紅統跟藍統新北市2026年明年開始不再分生廚餘跟熟廚餘台中市維持生熟廚餘分開台南高雄不調整生廚餘的分類 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
214.271 |
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239.912 |
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這個資料正確吧 目前來講你們的掌握是不是這樣跟後端的處理方式有相關所以因地制宜的採取前端的分類方式對 我是說現在各縣市給中央的訊息是不是如此如果是這樣那就糟糕了那你們怎麼去管控不是 各縣市後端處理的方式不同來決定前端用什麼方式來分類 |
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241.618 |
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251.539 |
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如果是桃園來講它生殖能源中心是生手廚藝都可以處理它沒有必要去做分類啊沒有必要把身跟手再分開只要把垃圾跟廚藝分類就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
253.705 |
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280.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
市長你這樣講話也對啦 如果地方政府他可以做到這樣程度 不過我們覺得今天非洲族分的感染的來源主要是我們的熟廚宇 肉類的熟廚宇 或是對不起 生熟的肉類的廚宇 應該是這麼講嘛但是我們蔬果的這個廚宇基本上他是沒有這個風險性的那我們把這兩個融在一塊 不再做這樣那個源頭的分流那豈不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
281.82 |
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303.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那你說你要讓地方政府他有這樣處理的源頭量能你們就接受會不會再來一次像台中市這種狀況發生我再擔憂這個狀況這個邏輯上的問題會不會再發生這樣的風險可是因為這一次的政策調整主要都基於風險的管控當然沒有錯所以只有一年的緩衝期一年過後全面就禁止處理養豬所以那個風險就已經歸零 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
305.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
329.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
在這種情況之下就過渡的一年之中就會有剛剛委員講的那一種分類的問題那到底怎麼樣分類我們盡量就是把高風險的部分那這一年會不會塞爆焚化廠會不會塞爆野脈廠會不會塞爆堆肥廠跟委員報告如果委員談的是這個部分那應該就是量能跟再利用量能之間的關係是不是我跟委員報告一下目前除以在禁止養豬的期間產生量大概是1000 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
331.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
352.791 |
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700多公噸但是我們的再利用量大概有1100公噸的確是有600噸的一個缺口對但是未來的一年因為已經有落日了所以民間會看到這樣的商機之後會投入這樣的再利用的一個管道所以地方政府所報上來的所掌握的不管是公的或者是私有的所投入的量能大概在明年會有增加620噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
354.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
374.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那過程當中當然就會有銜接不是一步到位所以魂化爐會繼續使用那魂化爐我們擔心的就是操作過程會不會產生代號性的問題這個我們都討論過了包含多少量我都非常清楚我是說要趁這一年這一年甚至我們環境部長都想說可以提早是不是半年就可以解決嘛對不對好那我們是不是趁這個機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
376.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
395.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
強調整個系統整個邏輯上的一個處理趕快的來做這樣更積極的分流包含現在比較低階的果菜市場基本上還是初級的市面架空都還把這些可能一些蔬果啦齁這些這些這些下甲料都還把他當成一般食用廢棄物在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
396.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
424.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那我是覺得國外很多的這個先進的科技生物科技也好農業科技也好其實都已經巡迴在利用甚至於農業零廢棄我們都朝向這個方向了那現在在家用的部分家務的部分竟然把生廚宇跟所廚宇又把它混在一塊我覺得這不應該發生啊我要講這個源頭我先講這個簡單的源頭就好家務的廚宇怎麼會容許我們地方政府把生的跟所的又混在一塊沒有道理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
427.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
451.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
請答我如果它後端的再利用是屬於做堆回的它不見得要分類的時候我們為什麼要強制它要分類如果是屬於生殖能驗養消化設施的也不需要去分的時候為什麼我們要做這樣的一個分類一般人民百姓聽不清楚 次長講得這麼細啦因為後端的再利用的方式來決定前端這600噸如果又把它混在一塊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
452.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
475.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
不要跟一般的垃圾混在一起我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然不是一般的垃圾我當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
479.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
505.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
一輛驗出陽性的出移車 其這個行駛的軌跡無法完全掌握這是環境部的問題 揮劃流向失控 暗藏私下出移分送給西洋豬場顯示出即便在有納管的情況之下 私下轉運依然猖獗那我要表達說 現在連合法申報的期間我們都抓不到私下轉運的這些黑數那我們現在全面來禁止了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
506.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
524.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然後我們要容許地方政府把這樣的生豬與跟雄豬分在一塊我覺得 我覺得我現在在邏輯上我是沒辦法接受的市長你要表達那個我聽 我聽得清楚但是人民百姓聽不清楚為什麼我們在處理豬與我們禁止豬與養豬的情況之下我們可以默許這樣事情發生啦處長你聽我講什麼我覺得你講的是後端的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
534.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
563.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我前段也講我後段也講因為時間的關係我把兩個混在一起講給你聽所以委員是關心的是緩衝期一年期間的事情還是指落日之後的事情我覺得緩衝期會馬上遇到了嘛緩衝只有一年的時間嘛是所以分類上面我們基本上加護的部分我們都不讓他進去了就沒有所謂分類之後的風險的問題加護的部分不管生或熟就看地方政府收來的這些廚餘他要做什麼樣的方式再利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
565.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
586.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
如果他要進魂化爐他也不需要分啦短時間之內如果只能用魂化處理所以你不擔心魂化爐會塞爆不擔心魂化爐因為溺水的問題導致魂化爐又壞掉然後又不能收取其他的一般會氣汙的魂化你都不用擔心這些事情就對了你現在這個部分你跟我講得很清楚我聽得非常清楚所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
587.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
605.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
他要不要分類 反正到最終都到魂化爐來然後反正最終都到堆肥廠所以這一年內你都不需要擔心魂化爐的魂化量魂化廠的問題也不用擔心堆肥廠會去塞爆現在的魂化爐壓力最大的就是台中市其他的縣市沒有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
606.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
627.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
台中市最大 接下來台北跟新北市長 你要跟我講其他縣市沒有嗎有啊 有魂化爐 我們現在講的是魂化爐其他縣市沒有因為要收取這麼多的原本不需要收取到魂化場去處理的廚藝它不會有問題嗎這問題你必須要釐清才答覆我你不要急著答覆我 我跟你提醒是有問題今天我才到這個委員會來追尋你 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
629.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
644.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那如果要我現在說明我可以說明但是因為需要一點時間那是不是我現在說明就看主席了不是我的問題書面 好書面是好啦謝謝主席已經站出來了站起來了部長最後一點陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
645.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
669.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
拜託 工地放零 散播地 農牧用地一定要積極的快速的趕快來做處理一個月內可以嗎我們現在目前已經有做內部的討論但是至於說是不是開放放零這個還要行政院同意內部的規劃我們會先規劃一個月內可以有規劃的初期報告嗎有一些初步的規劃可以提供給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
670.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
688.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他只要不要危害這個山坡地的這個保護 違反這個生態 違反相關的一些法規基本上這些從農的百姓也很多比69年更早之前的都已經在這個地方耕作了那胡耳根有起點的這樣的一個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
689.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
714.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
不應該只有平地還是養殖嘛應該連散播地都應該一併思考才對對 這個我跟委員報告已經內部已經有做一些討論了齁但是要分兩個部分一個是58527那個案子那是另外一件案子對然後一般的合法的成熟的散播地那是另外一個案子是所以這個部分我們有分開來做一些研議好 一個月內能不能出一期的應該可以提供提供給委員一些一些我們初步的規劃好 謝謝江邦部長 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝 |