| IVOD_ID |
166426 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166426 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-15T11:41:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-15T11:55:25+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:11 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d486c5db5da75906c882bdc2642fbb56e3a1989ac581c228b1905849ce66817699bb5a3cc09873825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
謝龍介 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:41:14 - 11:55:25 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第21 次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「針對國軍各類型火藥原物料購案，廠商資格標準訂定及審認作法」，併請經濟部、行政院公共工程委員會、法務部廉政署列席，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席我先 保證你先喝茶講一下廢話 我先請中科院請中科院 李院長欸 議長 我說好樂威跟我有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
31.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
今年三月這個標案是第三次開標 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
65.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
第三次 絕對 第三次開票所以 第一次跟第二次呢這一家公司有沒有來投標都沒有喔 對不對啊 為什麼第三次是誰去找他出來的來信通話 整個啊這在我們台南是穿金車的呢第一次 第二次 他都沒有來投標啊第三次是誰抱他出來吃這個好吃的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
80.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
喔 這就是問題啊委員因為是公開招標啦 我知道公開招標嘛你說過去第一屆第二屆流標 第三屆就是一斤就可以了這個時候 心必靈的出來啊所以最後就絕標啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
126.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你知不知道他同期時 三月你們割標的時候他是在去年12月30日做變更的你知不知道這個事情國民重點就是他具備了參標的資格對 我知道他具備了 他具備的是12月30日才具備的嘛我再跟你講 我請保證來所以中科院你就是第一次 第二次 他都沒來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
128.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
132.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
他三次要割皮的順序就出現了啦你只割他一斤而已啦不對 剛才那個軍備局 軍備局你說有5%的保證金我請教你 這個軍備局5%的保證金 中科院你可以回去 請坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這5%是用什麼支票 現金?還是支票?還是定存單?是 都 報告委員都可以現金 集齊支票他一屆是用這支的支票就對了 是的 是的我們要這5%要做什麼?你看 豹趴出來賣蛋拿5%跟木修5%要怎樣?喔?保證人家你在應援喔 不要那麼生氣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
188.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我知道你是站在法律上的角度 我們有保護這個標案跟木修對於來說普通不一樣啊甚至還有醫館在這裡說什麼本來做玩具也可以做無人機啊可以啊 我以前就是玩具生產啊我做玩具做20幾年了我本來也可以做槍啊後來內政部來取締啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
209.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
213.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我也可以做無人機啊遙控驅動的我都可以做啊但是過程有一個研發啊不會說瞬間一夜之間我就變得可以做人家想投入研發三年四年五年不等嘛陶瓷也一樣啊精密陶瓷我也是投入研發啊才有新品出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
236.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
243.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
做漁船的當然也可以做雷箭啊 那就別空啊 慶富就這樣來的嘛 國家僚兩百幾個啊你不能說他只要有資格就可以嘛這間啦 暗沒目啦12月30號變更的時候 我聽到了啦 我現在跟你講為什麼會是他 因為有人去看嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
266.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
268.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個採購本來就是一個很封閉啊我們比較過去你們採購的農務當然有人說要打破壟斷嘛 很好啊打破壟斷那就是弄一個新的壟斷啊為什麼是他 為什麼不是我啊來撥的資料農中有的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
292.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
311.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
包括去巴西買芥農的藝術是什麼你知道嗎 超市不要去過巴西巴西有人替他拆工好了 有人替他整廢棍 有人把他送進來你不要到台灣了喔 這個雞蛋應該給哪一家廠商幫他去化超市連洗蛋的工廠都沒有那最後去化以後還直接流到通路 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
318.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
324.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這間就是要奉祭 是不是這樣 我跟你講他沒有這個領略上勝算 也沒有這個領略上進回那當然 人家就懷疑啊 是不是國安部有人介入 官員有介入民意代表有介入 他是怎樣是民意代表給聽的 還是官員報他好康的 還是莫迪是他們表現 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
349.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
352.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
莫迪你聽不懂 印度總理啊印度總理是他們表現 怎麼可以拿這個表現轉型 企業轉型是好事 但轉型不會是一夕之間你能進入軍工科技這個產業他這是標準的 有問題 我在這裡替賴清德總統澄清一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
377.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
384.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
經過分析台南的調查賴總統跟他們不認識他不是賴友友但他是立友友賴總統跟他不認識啦而且當時借他的牌出來做台南市2014年到2016年那個小型工程的那個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
398.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
413.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
也不是他們本身 那是人家照擺出來做的所以我現在 我算在這裡替賴總統澄清各位不要誤會 賴清德跟他們不認識但是有民意代表跟他認識啊為什麼會把整個標案弄好了這就是損風殺到窮啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
425.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
429.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
不給過去那個結構的那些廠家繼續做那為什麼挑了他那挑他以後本身在這正式跟部長檢舉跟這個公司接觸的有一個退役的金人這是前天在地的人跟我講有退役的金人跟他們接觸 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
452.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
479.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那到底這個退役的軍人是代表國安部還是代表民意代表去跟他周旋周旋好了以後促成這個標案這是我要注意的當然我們採購有很多困難啊對不對所以要保證採購的進來你不知道印度部長你了不了解俄羅斯在賣原油的時候印度大買特買然後轉賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
481.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
504.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
有這個事嗎這兩三年 俄武戰爭的過程印度買了俄羅斯很多原油就直接轉賣 賺了大筆的錢那你怎麼會知道這個原物料呢印度不是向中國大陸買的 然後轉賣給我們我們要怎麼防堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
507.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
530.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們會取得原產的他原產就變成是印度出來的 習產地啊但是你沒辦法追查你也沒有能力追查 坦白講國安部包括民意大包括各方面很難去追查到這一點那我們要怎麼去防度 要他提出什麼樣的切捷我們這個原產製造證明文件是要經過產地法院或公證人公證 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
531.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
551.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那當然他會取得嘛我的意思說他會取得就像這個印度從俄羅斯買來的原油轉賣一樣他也可以取得但是這個原物料實質上是來自中國大陸那我們怎麼辦我們就資助了紅色產業鏈啦我們會要求軍備局會同這個廠商辦理文件查驗我們必要的事也會實施反向查證 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
560.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
570.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
返鄉查證那要不要到產地去查證有沒有這個機制 合約裡面有沒有寫如果有必要的話我們會請駐外單位這個很嚴肅啦 部長我覺得這個我們必須要落實啦能不能 因為以他能夠得標那表示現在印度是有貨可以看啦是不是 君佩琪是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
588.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
605.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
印度現在應該是有現貨可以看或是有生產線可以看那我們能不能請廠商提供我們先去看一下我想我們這個部分等廠商提出輸出許可證明之後我們會來進行相關的這個旅業監督的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
607.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
625.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那提出以後部長我們什麼時候可不可以在他提出來以後我們在兩個月以內我們國安委員會請主席我們組成一個考察團我們到印度的廠地工廠去看一下實際了解可以嗎主席可以嗎我認為這個相關重要因為這可能會資助到紅色產業鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
638.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
657.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
本席有高度的情報來源這些東西很可能是從中國大陸轉過來的還有就是國防部退役這個軍官我私底下會跟那個廉政今天調查局沒有來我會跟廉政署講這個軍官是哪一個軍種跟這個李先生他們接觸 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
663.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
679.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那目前情報來源是說有交情但是是有人代表民意代表去接觸他然後還刻意帶風向說他是賴友友你對老青帝這樣汙衊我是看不下去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
681.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
699.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以這裡今天兩個澄清第一個他不是賴友友第二個我們要採購的原物料很可能就是來自中國大陸然後轉到這邊來所以本席才會要求拿到這個證明以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
701.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
728.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那印度的法院如果願意認證那建勤主席我們應該做一個實地因為這種採購不會一次就結束既然我們要擴大國防採購跟擴大軍備儲蓄那可能後續還會有更大的採購量一定要小心謹慎部長你認不認同我們會落實我們的旅業的監督機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
729.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
748.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那監督機制你贊不贊成我們組團到印度去實地考察委員的這個行程我想不是我們國安部可以置會的那國安部到時候要派誰一舉來我們剛剛已經講了我們必要會請駐外的單位來做一個查問沒有 我們要有國安部軍備局陪同啊因為你們是專業的 你們要提供專業諮詢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
757.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
784.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
否則我們這只是只有委員去也沒有用啊隨便就被糊弄啦那國安部能夠 軍備局能派派遣人員嗎可以嗎可以嗎我想委員如果要去任何地方我們要不要陪同這件事情我們國安部要在另外在慎做要慎重怕踩到紅線 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
787.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
810.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
還是印度當局會拒絕我想委員這個事項現在都還沒有成正所以這個標案不一定會成不是我說委員剛剛說您要組團的這件事情還沒有成正委員會主席已經答應了我不知道就是你取得他的保證廠商的禮約跟認證以後我們要去實地勘查表示我們對軍事採購的慎重 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
819.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
831.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
只要委員會成行 那軍備局是不是應該要派員隨同啊委員要做好委員相關的監督的作為 我們都表示尊重對 那委員會主席如果我們成團 軍備局應該要派人 你不能答應嗎我沒有辦法現在對還沒有成團的事情 我表示任何意見 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
848.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
849.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好 沒關係 我會再來請教好 謝謝 |