| IVOD_ID |
166425 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166425 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-15T11:37:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-15T11:51:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d486c5db5da7590659d3eb780bc1f2f3908415f8fac51cd3b1905849ce6681762a31a243c72cc49e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:37:59 - 11:51:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、經濟部、農業部、交通部、國防部及內政部國土管理署就「全臺垃圾山危機與事業廢棄物去化」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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好 謝謝主席 那請部長請彭部長欸 趙偉豪部長好 部長這一本這一本你有沒有看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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環境部的全台垃圾山危機與社會氣候去化的專案報告有你有詳細看過我後來拿那個自己在做簡報啦我自己是簡報的版本可能有一些些那個我的簡報的部分會更細緻呈現啦所以這個不夠細緻嘛因為我是看那個我自己核外在做這個在多做的更多 |
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46.588 |
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對啦 所以你就看這個覺得就是不夠細緻你才不會再做另外那一份嘛對對 要讓大家比較更清楚的了解如果說這一份你有看過我是覺得跟我對你的認識啦在你私生上的作為跟作風是有很大的落差是真的很大落差簡單講啦 台灣垃圾處理的觀念一直是落後國際啦 |
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這個我們不得不承認我在這個委員會也有一段時間了那也經歷過好幾屆的署長跟現在的部長那人家處理這個垃圾的方法其實好像人家在開跑車我們一直在騎腳踏車啦不要說看不懂就騎不動啦先驗也驗不中啦因為你來當部長的時候我覺得應該是有有不一樣來面對這個垃圾處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.042 |
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從減量 從這個戰事 從到要掩埋是文化應該會有不一樣的一個思維跟作法但是我看這個報告裡面 沒有 |
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133.568 |
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就是完全沒有,所以我才會這麼講我們當時是在1990年的時候我們政府提出以先是易分化的政策那國際上當時歐洲等國家就已經確立減量與回收優先,魂化為主我們還以魂化為主、掩埋為虎的觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
135.12 |
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161.089 |
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然後到2025年已經經過35年了三十五年了 狀況仍然一樣我們面對垃圾問題我們思考是如何儘早掩埋 焚化沒有充分的去思考要如何再減量然後再到做最好的戰車的處理甚至於面對突然的災害還有焚化廠的睡秋的時候要如何去應應短期這個暴增的垃圾 |
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162.33 |
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因為從今年的華年光復災害以及台中非洲豬瘟的事件我想是給我們台灣很冷善的一刻沒有充分的事前準備 |
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結果這個災害發生我們好像感覺到有在做啦但是中央跟地方來講感覺地方的束手無策全是顯示在國人的面前那中央當然也一直積極要去處理不過好像這個一直銜接不起來我在這個報告裡面然後再整理一些資料部長你就知道我要提出來說這個報告完全不是你的施政作用跟作為 |
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213.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
然後你看喔 同時部長在看這個表這是環境部建制的全國裸露堆積垃圾妥善處理監控平台上面很清楚的顯示110年到現在全國各地掩埋場 轉運站等垃圾堆積場火災通報77次 偷偷的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
218.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
226.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
也就是說這些堆置廠平均每兩週就發生一起火災這個不是零屁設施這不是鹹熱設施這叫危險設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
229.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
251.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
然後111年之間 新竹21期我的母縣 雲林縣竟然也11期然後澎湖 連離島的澎湖也10期所以我們在垃圾這個戰事的整個管理上落天的管理上 根本就是鬆散 毫無機率而且我們還設這個平台 還讓這樣的事情持續在發生我是要說這是完全搞在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
258.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
287.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個就有陰謀論啦 這個民間有講的嘛我們上去焚烙爐燒不一定可以照亮全部燒一燒嘛再來 繼續有問題這個中央當時對焚烙爐的政策從公辦公營 公辦民營到民辦民營坦白講 這中間有很多人當時在上下起手也有很多人因為這個樣子因案 因這樣的案子被抓去判刑 執行完畢了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
289.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
316.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這是顯示這個政策基本上必須要大幅的去面對然後去做修正不然這樣事情還是會層出不窮因為到現在還有人期待要蓋焚化爐那我現在想說他這個知道這個狀況反而沒有在期待焚化爐那直接搞一個露天的焚化廠來做焚化不然怎麼會這個樣子 兩個禮拜一次兩個禮拜燒一次 兩個禮拜燒一次不分本島跟離島 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
338.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
然後我們還設置這個監控平台那第二件事情12月1號我們環境部發一個新聞稿 極端氣候加劇環境部督促地方政府加強掩埋掩埋場的防災管理然後嚴禮什麼 嚴禮災害廢棄物管理指引你如果沒有發這條新聞 我又不會覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
341.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我不知道這是不是經過部長的同意還是部長的指示然後來研擬這樣的一個指引到現在研擬指引有用嗎到現在面對這麼多的這麼多場的火災我們還研擬指引你覺得有用嗎而且你沒指引我看你的報告好像到明年的二月過年農曆過年前後才要出來不知道要再燒幾百啊照這樣的比例嘛發生率來講嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
395.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我針對當時衛福部啦 不管凱凱案啦不管那個蘇丹農案都有啊 地方政府也有訂指引啊中央也有指引啊地方政府覺得說我們訂的還比你中央的指引更好因為這個完全沒有法律上的效力啦完全沒有啦所以一旦要等到燒出事情 燒出人命我們大家才警覺然後才覺得這非常嚴重的事情我們才要去做面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我覺得這不對啦依照部長的個性還有施政的作風我想這個應該我們立法院來修懷也不為過所以你們要不要趕快你們要趕快去面對然後去調整然後去修正你們相關的辦法來好好處理這個事情不然今天召委排這個專報你不要召委排完之後兩個禮拜又不曉得哪一個縣市的暫時的垃圾對市場又燒一次還是兩個禮拜內燒兩次沒道理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
427.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
447.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以我希望部長就是面對這個事情依照你的施政的作風作為應該是很積極的該修辦法去修辦法該提到我們來修木樺我們就來做修木樺嘛戰事場的相關規定都在一般的匯蓄回收清除處理的辦法中所以我在這邊要具體跟部長建議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
448.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
476.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們應該整個梳理這個相關規定 同時是不是找專家包含相關單位 地方政府的意見訂定一個專門針對垃圾戰車場的管理辦法好 好不好 我覺得這要訂出來啦 好不好因為你今天報告裡面有說自己的車子 你這個有尾車嘛有邀請專家學者及中央地方相關部會來討論以有具有有初步具體內容具體內容是不是可以輸出於在修訂相關辦法裡面好 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
478.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
497.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
一個星期可以吧委員因為這個是因為我們包含我們同仁這個上個禮拜也到日本去問他們專家因為日本很理想說例如說我們的堆製值的5公尺高然後多大的面積然後我有我在但是這個在台灣差很多處理土壤看日本我知道我知道現在這個又看日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
498.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
523.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
台灣喔 你在做補充費用有很多輸費跟做法 也不一定輸日本啦不用等到看日本的醫療 我們才有得做啦1999年到現在去控制歐年 35年啊我們還要處理垃圾的戰事 處理的相關辦法然後要去嚴定指引你去看日本也沒有用啊 你去看美國也沒有用啊你去看歐美有什麼用 那是心態問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
551.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那心態問題啦 沒被35等到現在還在補責嘛我講表就是這樣啊 你再看你們12月10號又出了一則新聞這個新聞我看了我看的實在是還蠻憤怒的 台中市環保局出妙招出妙招 出妙招還是真的有夠奇妙 妙妙妙什麼妙招 壓縮垃圾再打包 避免發臭四處飛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
554.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
581.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
垃圾打包 垃圾分選 垃圾打包什麼時候環境部從環保署的時代什麼時候開始實施中央跟台中市政府有城鄉落差進入到時空隧道嗎是從1990年到現在2025年中央的這個垃圾的分選打包跟台中市政府是有這樣的疏離感嗎這個叫妙招 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
583.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
607.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個會叫妙招不管媒體怎麼下標我是覺得為什麼到現在台中市的環保局才會來處理這個事情然後被媒體形容叫做妙招你環境部都沒有妙招啦好可憐啊台中市現在有妙招了你們死定了你們要被挑戰了不只這樣啊114年1月9號 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
611.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
639.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
部長 這個是你下去的嘛然後你要及各縣市由裸露垃圾堆置的縣市環保局長共同宣示並簽署合作宣言持續透過數位化的管理源頭減量資源回收垃圾場整理及垃圾打包減農我不曉得這個減農這個農的意思是怎樣就是不要裸露啦不要裸露造成環境問題啦那為什麼用這個農 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
641.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
650.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是原來的這個裸露實在很不好看而且造成這個蒼蠅衛生的問題惡臭的問題所以減少這個垃圾場醜陋的容貌啦我可以這樣解釋嗎減少現在看到很多這個暫時對市場裸露的醜陋的容貌的垃圾場 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
660.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
677.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
等多項措施嘛然後中央跟地方共同合作在115年底前達成妥善解決各件事裸露堆積的問題嘛是當時的這是年初的那現在年底呢地方政府的環保局 臺東市環保局講說妙招的所以你認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
681.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
705.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你看喔 台中市環保局的局長還是副局長沒有一起跟你們召開這個會嗎有 前任局長也在這邊 對那其實我所知道的是他們堆了非常非常的多比大家想像中還要多很多所以你們1月份也是有邀集他們嘛 對不對怎麼會年初邀集他們年底的時候他們有這樣好像發掘到新的一個處理我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
707.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
730.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
說到自己的 我覺得我們要拿這兩個東西去做比較問到那個前途都沒有了真的問到那個前途都沒有了所以你現在在訂直營 有用嗎 沒有用啦沒有用 絕對沒有用處都沒有啦再你看 過去台中市不是沒有處理啊這個是在前市長的任內 2021年的之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
734.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
746.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
應該是更早 110對2021年有啊 不是沒有錯啊整齊劃一也不用再減農了啦不用再減少醜陋的垃圾場的農貿了現在2025怎麼變這樣怎麼現在才會再出妙招 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
753.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
781.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我想打包垃圾基本上當然是要多花一點錢我們一定現在也是靠環境部的補助四千一百多萬應該還不止啦對不對要更多嘛然後就用這個壓縮護膜去打包的方式可以減少這樣的醜陋的容貌然後還可以抑制這個惡臭的發生嘛對啊這很久了很久了對啊怎麼會變成台中市環保局的妙招 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
783.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
803.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以我還是請這樣還是請部長營利相關的計畫更積極的計畫然後是不是一個更妥善的處理方式然後有具體的這樣的一個一個一個一個檢調的一個KPI我們我們我們呈給我們的委員會大家大家再來再再來督促了好不好好可以嗎一個月內嗎好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席 |