| IVOD_ID |
166423 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166423 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-15T11:30:33+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-15T11:40:56+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:23 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d486c5db5da759067e4badb7d0130588e3a1989ac581c228b1905849ce6681766a3cf9a7d5d653fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:30:33 - 11:40:56 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第21 次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「針對國軍各類型火藥原物料購案，廠商資格標準訂定及審認作法」，併請經濟部、行政院公共工程委員會、法務部廉政署列席，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席及各位先進有請國防部的顧部長請顧部長部長你好我最近這一段時間很少看到你這麼生氣你從上個禮拜一直生氣到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.192 |
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蛤 到底是怎麼樣 是戳到你哪個痛腳 你怎麼早上一來這裡面對媒體的生氣 在這裡現在生氣到底生氣是為什麼啦 你說一個問題為什麼這麼生氣各位委員報告 我想我對每一件事情都只是據理例證而已你有很生氣喔有好幾個人問我 為什麼顧部長這麼生氣原來很有修養的變成沒有修養 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.47 |
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來我們來看喔外界質疑的是什麼外界質疑的就是他的資本額1900萬為什麼可以拿到這麼大的標剛才已經有很多委員講了我就不重複了外界質疑的是這個那你就一直在回答一個事情說旅約保證5%交了押標金交了是不是這兩個都交了還是只有交一個先交押標金 |
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80.27 |
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99.573 |
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先加投標押標金然後絕標之後就是押標金我還回然後就他履約保證金所以等於3%加5% 8%前面先收3%對完成程序之後絕標之後還回他3%再加5%再收5%那現在在你手上到底多少幾%了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.454 |
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124.501 |
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5%那是多少錢的5%是5.9億的5%還是原來8點幾億的5%預算金額8.2億的5%所以是4千多萬在你手上那部長啊 你在乎不在乎他這個錢是借來的拿到你這個合約拿到的去融資剛才委員提到的 你在乎不在乎還是you don't care我只要他錢給我就好了 |
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124.901 |
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151.133 |
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我不介意 我在乎的是透過我們這樣的公開招標的程序能夠如期如質的執行完這個合約讓我們能夠拿到我們所需要的火藥原物料那麼履約保證金沒收跟解約然後還有辦理停權是拿來我們控管他在招標之前他就要思考他有沒有這樣子的履約能力的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.333 |
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166.03 |
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控管的機制下一個檢核點是什麼時候下一個檢核點就是他要在絕標次日起的180個日曆天列取得外國政府或授權機構核發的輸出許可證明那是什麼時候就是絕標日起180 絕標是什麼時候12月2 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.047 |
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187.182 |
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12月8號絕標所以大概半年左右就明年度的六月左右是不是這個意思是 看他能不能取得這樣如果不能取得咧如果不能夠取得我們就可以要檢討要不要解除合約怎麼會這麼客氣就解除啦 不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
193.254 |
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202.157 |
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我們如果委員的這個意思是如此我們也確定他不能取得輸出許可的證明我們就會採取這樣的手段那委員金呢沒收啊就是旅遊保證沒收就對了啦對啊沒收四千多萬啦我為什麼特別提這個因為前面幾位委員已經有提到了就是大家會擔心的像我們的風力發電 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
223.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
政府給合約保證收購電而且電價很高他拿這個合約去貸款通通拿銀行的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
234.617 |
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257.152 |
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這個到底的買空賣空啊到底的買空賣空我們怕這個事情也歷史重演那個風電一樣所以這個大家就會比較說那這個不是跟這個小吃店做快篩的生意超市雞蛋進口幾乎如出一冊啊就變這個樣子外界擔心的是這個而且你剛剛講說他有營業項目這去年才加進來的啊你不讓外界有這樣的質疑都很困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
264.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.211 |
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因為去年才加入 我請教部長湖邁公司應該不是去年才加進來的 營業項目去年才加進來的不是 是不是 他原來就是從事國際貿易沒有 化學品 化學用料的化學原料去年加進來的我們的資格就是他能夠從事國際貿易化學原料不用在乎我們歷來過去20年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.614 |
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315.712 |
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20年來所有火藥原物料的資格都只要具有國際貿易的業務項目可是他沒有做過火藥的生意喔 過去沒有因為我們這是內購外賣嘛那這個他只要有一個國際貿易業的代理商的資格就可以啦這個部長 其實其實 我就問你一件很直白的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
316.874 |
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331.705 |
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我們立委提報這件事情之前請問你知不知道這個事情我對相關的個案每一個個案我沒有去介入所以你都不知道當然是事件爆發出來之後我才了解這個整個案件的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.159 |
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334.941 |
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以你大律師的背景你沒有看一下這個這個案子沒有任何可以你監討的地方嗎你不會覺得它資本額太小嗎不會這樣覺得嗎我們檢視的結果就是已經一再的跟委員說明就是在於說我們開放這個參與投標但是我們會做嚴格的履歷監督嘛那這個就是一個核心的一個我們國防部的立場對於這樣子的一個開放參與投標然後核心監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
362.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
390.193 |
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這個履約然後對於履約的這個部分他會招致這個相關的這些被沒收被解約被停權的後果他在參標之前他就會做衡量他一定覺得他一定會去思考他有沒有履約能力那剛剛委員也指教的很好就是說第一個管制點在什麼時候第一個管制點就是在於決標的自治體的一定的日期內他要取得外國政府的一個輸出區的證明他如果拿不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
390.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
393.919 |
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他就會面臨你有沒有側面了解他能不能讓人知道我現在沒有辦法去評估這樣子的一個狀況你總是要了解現在已經新聞報這麼大了你總是要去了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
403.055 |
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410.442 |
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我們現在相關的作為就是我們在採購前辦理這個商員的徵詢然後之後我們辦理公開招標讓所有可能能力的人都進來投標你跟民企了解一下他的資本有1000多萬他怎麼有錢拿4000多萬給你交旅遊保證金借來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
424.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
438.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我要拿到的是旅業保證金的現金我並不需要去管這一個他的你不會在乎嗎你不在乎老百姓在乎喔我們的控管的所要就是旅業保證金的沒收啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
439.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
464.585 |
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不是他就是拿你的因為拿到你的合約拿去貸款的所以這一點大家在意這一點你怎麼會說你一個大律師怎麼會國際貿易在從事相關的業務我想過去幾十年很多我們的這些中小企業也好或者我們從事國際貿易的這些奮鬥的過程當中我想他如何運用他的資金這本來就是他成功歷史裡面的一段 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
465.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
474.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我認為我們不需要去非議這樣的一個手段重點就在於他必須要繳交旅業保證金而我們的手段非常簡單看到貨品質合格我們才會付款我們沒有任何的風險在這個之前但是他要受到很大的風險他沒有辦法旅業他旅業保證金會被沒收他會被停權 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
491.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
505.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
外界的質疑就是這事先都講好了才去去年把這個原料化學原料把它加進來的然後都是講好了才去做這個事情為什麼只有一家飆請問它是不是限制性招飆 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
507.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
535.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
跟委員報告你如果看我們提出來的過去這個五年內相關的這些表案很多都是一家出來投票因為他都是有把握去拿到這些證明他才會進來投票這個就是火藥原物料的一個採購的一個特色所以你是替他背書的啦我沒有要替他背書我也不知道他是不是能到最後拿到輸出去的證明尤其特別在經過這一段風波之後但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
536.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
555.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
他能夠來投標他當然就要先思考我另外問一個問題美國國會研究處在12月11號報告IF12735這裡面特別提到了台灣如果因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
556.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
582.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
就是說美國對他的盟國對他的朋友們如果遭受到攻擊的話他可能會動用核武去幫忙那麼簡單來講就是兩岸開戰雖然台灣跟美國沒有這個台美的什麼相互互相協防跳躍什麼之類的美國延伸嚇阻跟區域核能力就是他會動用核武器 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
583.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
605.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
來的話我們台灣有沒有承受核戰場的能力我們最大的這個努力就是我們做好我們的備戰基礎我們來避戰然後這個台海的和平穩定的現狀能夠維持沒有沒有沒有 你沒有回答問題我問你核戰場萬一如果美國要出動這個了台灣會牽連嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
615.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我相信如果有任何發生核子武器的動用對全世界都會是一個災難不是只有對台灣謝謝 |