| IVOD_ID |
166413 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166413 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-15T10:47:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-15T11:00:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d486c5db5da759063a0d13e05df398e93d053df696e011f8b1905849ce6681763a469af2c92659b95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
呂玉玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:47:15 - 11:00:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長及環境部首長就「2027年全面禁止廚餘養豬」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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請委員請做詢答謝謝主席 請陳部長跟我們環境部的長賜我們再請兩位 謝謝部長 長賜 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
22.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
46.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
為了防範非洲豬瘟的疫情再入侵我們農業部在12月4號就已經宣布我們的廚餘逐步的退場尤其是我們家庭的這個廚餘部分在明年開始就已經停止收了那2027年的話我們的失業廚餘會全面的禁止但是這個整個我們的廚餘的狀況的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
55.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
牽動著我們整個養豬戶產業的結構還有考驗著我們國內廚餘的這個去化的量能那尤其是以事業廚餘來講的話那你們知道嗎他們的那廚餘現在我們不收的話他們一桶現在一桶的話他們大概要負擔的這個清運費大概是50塊到100塊未來的話那清運費可能會1500到2000那這只是清運而已像我們常識講的如果送去 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
生殖中心或是堆肥或者是这个黑水盲这个部分的处理的话可能又增加更多的费用那所以现在整个我们的厨艺的处理的这个量能我们不能完全依靠说 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
96.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
111.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
业者未来会增加这些设备而应该以我们公部门自己就要在建制好是所有处理这个生殖中心或者是说我们的去化堆肥发电的这些设备来处理这个整合厨艺是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
130.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那我先請問一下這個長賜那你剛剛一直講的你都知道這些都是衍生出來的費用但是你又說產業他們自己看到商機自己會來設置這個廠爭取這個生意但是你要知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
147.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
未來最後他們的商機是都跟我們業者也就是說我們事業廚藝的部分或者是餐廳部分他就會跟他們收費收費的話這些費用未來就會衍生到我們消費者的身上是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
168.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以这个要你注意到的最末端的还是消费者最末端的还是消费者所以我们现在如果没有收事业厨艺的话未来他们这清运公司业者也好或者是说他们处理中心也好未来这些费用都是跟事业这个餐厅的这部分来收取对不对 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
169.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
跟委員報告一下以桃園為例桃園目前的廚餘主要是進到我們的生殖中心它是發電的是 那有一天可以處理135噸嘛那另外民間有一個廠像虹橋它過去是跟市政府這邊有合約大概是有20噸左右可是它因為這段時間禁止廚餘養豬它每天已經收到100噸了這個就是我所謂的當你政策落日明確的時候業者自然而然他會提升他的廚餘量 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
198.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
226.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我们这些设备第一个我们民间的设备跟我们公家部门的设备都建制完成这是我们要准备的才能够让我们厨余去去化对不对但是未来会衍生的事业厨余餐厅等等这些单位他们的成本问题这些成本的话未来就会到我们消费端这边来处理未来就物价又高涨了跟委员报告因为我们为了能够继续吃到台湾猪啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
226.681 |
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242.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
是基於風險考量所以做了這樣的一個政策拍板也經過大家討論的結果做成這樣的一個決定之後所以環境部不要一直推責任不是推責任 自然而然處於自然而然處於就必須要採取其他的方式處理所以你們今年的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
243.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
272.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
厨艺因为我们现在禁止收到年底对不对12月底嘛所以你们要补助各地方政府明年的话缓冲期的话还有一年可以去收厨艺他们就会再去负担去收厨艺但是2027年之后就没有了这未来我们要考虑的还有养猪产业还有我们整个生殖还有我们的整个事业餐厅整个循环链里面我们都要考虑进去才能够让我们这个部分能够大家都不要面临着未来 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
物价又高涨还是我们哪个缺口没有处理好的话衍生出未来很多不好的情形发生好不好那接下来我们就请问一下部长那尤其是我们特别讲到我们厨余现在的总量的话本来是有2115公吨的厨余其中我们的可以处理的厨余部分有1324剩下的部分的话791都是做我们的堆肥各方面的那未来的话你们说你们处理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
325.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個建置一些生殖中心也好或者民間處理的一些最終處理廠也好這些未來我們可以處理到2529噸29噸那就是看到我們前面的數字的話等於增加一倍那跟我們現有的生殖中心或者堆肥中心這個我們有沒有具體的我們要如何增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
355.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有環境部來說明那這個量能的增加是我們現在選項剛有講的民間會有所謂的堆灰廠或者是這一個黑水門會繼續投入這個產業那政府這邊會規劃大型的生殖能的設施目前已經有南投台南跟高雄現在我說會增加一倍的量我們要處理增加一倍的量是預估的嘛那我們要增加的這些設施具體的設施呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
356.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
366.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這些設施都是由地方政府他們評估他們的期程環境部還是講說是地方政府提出來的設施謝謝那我就是希望地方政府要做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
368.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
390.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們環境部也應該給予補助讓他們來做你不要只有督促你只做督促沒有去輔導他們去執行去建置這些場所才來徹底的解決我們最終處理廚藝的問題好不好那接下來請我們部長那我講到這邊的話我們最大宗的廚藝都是供應給我們的黑豬的養豬戶來使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
407.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那現在的話未來的話除以如果在2027年全面禁用的話黑豬的養豬戶負擔最沉重的衝擊最大的就是我們的黑豬的養豬戶因為黑豬的話他比白豬的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
420.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
的週期是12個月到15個月白豬只要6個月那現在的話如果沒有廚藥的話未來口感是不是會比較差或者是說成本提高這問題這個還有他們的週期養豬的週期問題我們部長這邊有沒有進一步的給我們黑豬養豬戶的一個信心喊話 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
謝謝委員事實上我們以農業部的立場我們一定會讓我們的黑豬產業永續的在台灣這邊土地持續的這樣進行下去但是一個蠻重要的就是過去用廚餘的養豬的方式農民比較沒有習慣用飼料的部分所以我們會成立一個輔導團隊然後我們已經有開發了一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
449.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
470.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
就是黑豬專用的這些飼料這些飼料成本比一般的飼料還便宜那我們希望說這個階段先讓他們用這樣的一個飼料的配方第二個部分我們會再去加速這些飼料配方的一個改善那第三個部分比較中長期的部分就是說我們的黑豬品種不一定一定要養到15個月啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
470.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
491.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
然后我们是不是可以有机会一个是土黑猪一个是大黑猪大黑猪大概一年土黑猪大概13到15个月我们希望说能够比较缩短因为用饲料化的一个处理他的生育周期应该是可以缩短的所以这个部分我们尽量的让他的利润能够确保 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
491.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
515.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
對 利潤確保是成本反應的問題尤其是部長我們的續產試驗所有研發出來專門給黑豬吃的飼料這個飼料的話可是很昂貴啊你要他轉型你就要輔導他不要讓他無法生存影響他的生計未來看不到黑豬這是不好的啦所以他們飼料這麼昂貴他們的飼料大概每頭豬要3000元左右對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
517.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
526.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們的那個敘事所的這些飼料的部分大概比外面的飼料應該是便宜將近差不多一半吧你是說一千五而已嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
528.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
557.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
不是三千是一千五一頭飼料跟一般的飼料比我請我們續展這對黑豬的黑豬的因為你們是研發出來這個飼料很關鍵你說如果是你們這個專門黑豬吃的飼料的話然後一般的大黑豬的話可以縮短為九個月而已那土黑豬的話可以縮短到13.5個月這對我們黑豬產業的話是有幫忙的但是飼料時很昂貴那部長說可以減少一半不是三千元一頭不是三千是一千五嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
559.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
583.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
大概減少每公斤大概減少一到兩元左右一到什麼飼料的成本跟一般的飼料一到兩元飼料成本一頭豬可以省多少錢我們一公斤的飼料大概是11塊到12塊左右一頭豬的計算方式一頭豬的生產成本大概是4000多塊左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
584.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
600.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
是啊所以還是很昂貴啦所以我希望說在這部分我們除以去化之後全面禁止之後可不可以針對黑豬這個部分我們的飼料給補助讓他們用常態性的補助給他們不要說有限定一年而已好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
602.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
620.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我想以農業部立場我們希望他用飼料然後飼料的部分我們去確保他的利潤就是可以減少他的成本沒有 我想我們沒有辦法在這邊承諾說一直持續補下去我覺得產業要進步我們會想辦法跟黑豬產業一起努力讓他的利潤能夠做確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
621.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
648.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
讓他的成本降低我們剛剛已經前面講了很多飼養期他比白豬多了一倍的時間養一頭黑豬可以養兩頭白豬他成本就已經很高了何況他現在如果用你專門為黑豬準備的飼料又比白豬的飼料貴了一倍以上所以這個我們可以對飼料的補助我們可以給他們常態性的話降低他們的成本降低他們的整個產業才能永續生存發展好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
649.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
670.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我想我們會努力的跟產業去做這樣的一個動作保障他們永續的發展我們一定讓這個產業一定永續發展還有另外一個問題部長就是我們廚藝在分類上面有分動物型的肺渣跟我們植物型的肺渣那部長有說過因為這個植物型的肺渣 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
670.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
690.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
不會影響非洲豬瘟 所以可以繼續用但是你們發給我們所有養豬戶的公文裡面在第5點第5條裡面就有提到說除於養豬場的經過補助型經補助轉型飼料後不得再以動物性跟植物性的廢棄物來餵養 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
692.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
720.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
是不是你們的發給人家的公文是這樣寫的但是你剛剛有說過植物型的廢紮廢棄物是可以繼續用的那你發給他們的公文為什麼這樣寫沒有 我要跟委員報告一個部分是在轉型期間一個部分是在轉型以後2027年以後呢那2027年以後因為不能在自己的場域裡面去做徵組不管是植物性的或動物性的因為你一旦讓他同意在 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
721.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
747.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
他自己場域蒸煮的時候 你們補助之後的話他場域裡面所有的蒸煮設備都一定要拆除嗎那拆除之後他還不能用這個植物性的廢料嗎他不能自己蒸煮 他如果說用其他的蒸煮去做蒸煮以後是OK的所以你是考慮說因為植物性的廢料還是需要蒸煮還是需要蒸煮嗎 如果他不用蒸煮呢他自己攪拌就可以餵食呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
748.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
766.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
沒有他如果不徵阻他可以自己去養沒問題啊但是那就可以用植物性的廢料是不是植物性廢料是可以一時是可以的啊一時是可以可是你公文發下去是不可以沒有那個是在後面在既有的徵阻設備裡面都不能用拆除後可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
767.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
796.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
拆除以後你要用植物性料源因為是業者特別拿這公文來問我所以我盡量請部長你要釐清這個問題我想我們會再跟業者說明清楚我們發這個公文是說在自己的蒸煮廠不管是動物的植物的不能在自己的蒸煮廠蒸煮這是一件事情但是你的蒸煮廠拆除以後植物性的料源你可以從外面外面直接進去裡面不做蒸煮那是OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
796.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
812.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以植物性的廢料豆渣都可以繼續使用對這個公文可不可以請你們再發給業者我覺得這沒問題這可以吧澄清一下好不好我們把它弄把它釐清啦好好謝謝好謝謝非常感謝 |