| IVOD_ID |
166397 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166397 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-15T09:46:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-15T09:57:06+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:49 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d486c5db5da75906e88ec0d03706422ae3a1989ac581c2284867b29f5c39eb5e43ecd620c67a78185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳永康 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:46:17 - 09:57:06 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第21 次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「針對國軍各類型火藥原物料購案，廠商資格標準訂定及審認作法」，併請經濟部、行政院公共工程委員會、法務部廉政署列席，並備質詢。） |
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主席有請顧部長 請顧部長部長早安 是陳文對於國防部整個採購規範依法依規的作業流程我們是尊重當然中間有一些技術性的問題或者一些工程性的問題我會就專業立場就交於採購室主任或是軍備局局長 |
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这一次当然我们是讲这个规范原物料那这个原物料是完整的配方进来还是要由205厂重新再组合各位看一下右边的这个方框框里面RDX里面它是一个化工的有水油本有甲本已存这个组合进口的原物料请问是液态 |
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還是沙粒狀還是塊狀還是柱狀我們回來做整合跟委員報告我們進來的RDS就是火炸藥的原料它是一個泡在水裡面的像麵粉一樣泡在水裡面全部都是用一桶一桶用水運過來它的前身就是污漏脫貧 |
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烏洛托平再加上到我們205廠再經過了98.5%的溶硫酸的消化然後再把它精煉然後才會成立一個結晶體結晶體的顆粒越大價格越高結晶體的顆粒越小價格越小就跟鑽石一樣以上報告所以它進來的是桶狀的請問這個合約整個執行的過程全程多長 |
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合约里面300天要缴一半85吨365天要缴另外的85吨所以就是分两次交运提一个建议因为我们在国际采购过程中间往往第一批交运完了第二批因为政治的因素产生延宕这个时候罚则就不一定了 |
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| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那这个部分就是建起以后在分批交货的时候后面有个但书不能因为他国内的情势或者政治因素第一个是延迟交货我们甚至碰到过他不交货了这个时候打官司还去仲裁很麻烦的这个是提出的建议因为 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
146.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
174.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你刚刚提的很好最好是一次交货一次交货结案就比较清楚因为分两次一个是中间一个是到第二批到下面这个提请做一个建议因为这个东西本身它是有一部分的风险危险性所以整个在过程中间各位看这张图表里面我们提出需求市场调查这个过程你们都经历了都没有问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
175.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
197.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
但是呢因为国内啊别的厂商不愿意投标所以得标厂商当然是依法合规他获得标那只是说在这个履约过程中间的履约督导这个军备局跟这个采购室啊要严格督导就是我刚刚向大家提起因为你是分次交运那交运过程中间呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
198.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
223.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
的安全系数那么包括航运在哪个地方下船从装货那是用货柜装呢因为是桶装装在货柜里面有多少货柜希望这些数值都能够掌握住不要在交运的过程中产生的一些意外事件然后全责不清因为我们是收售单位在运送过程中间合约厂商要负这个责任那 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
243.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
刚才提到了出口许可门槛值都合标这个是我们乐见很尊重但关键的因素就是到205厂验收以后我们拿到这个原物料的制成过程中间多少时间可以支持到我们战备需求这是我们内部的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
244.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
262.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
最主要就是因为我们过去参考过有些购案在过程中间它的弹数变了也就是说第二批往后延迟交货甚至还有第三批因为某些因素就不能交货这个时候一些合约过程中的法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我想部长本身在这个地方是专业了多指导他们因为我们都不能以一切顺利作为预判而是说不理想状况下产生的问题如何解决问题解套最好是全案顺利执行那这边还有一个就是有关的这个IMO的规则他因为这是危险物品 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
313.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以过着运送过程中间请他要具备一切的这个安全设计的文件那确保我们落地的时候航运过程顺利落地的时候我们运送过程中间是安全一直到到205厂的交货这个我想这个局长您这边把这个重点强调一下跟委员报告所有的城商他得标之后他从出口港 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
314.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
334.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他就是要取得一個合宇國際船舶規定的航運公司他的船到了出口港上了船的貨品到了我們台灣台灣大概就是只有高雄港跟吉隆港兩個港口在報關那大概城商都會選擇以205場為例他會選擇高雄港來報關 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
357.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們的合約都寫得很清楚了到港下貨之前的全責都是城商負責到港驗收因為火工是屬於國軍專有的專業由我們的人城商不准靠近在安全之旅之外我們的人就是上車按照道路的條例相關的一些的申請都要申請我們的人都受過了勞動部相關押運的相關的規定到了205場我們的管制區之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
363.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
365.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那這一段過程中間跟中科院有沒有互動因為過去中科院自己也曾經組合過這種炸藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
390.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
407.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
報告委員其實205廠產製的RDX成品大部分是給綜合院使用的好 了解好 謝謝那後面有兩個問題我可能請殉斥次次長其他的請回這個採購的問題沒有殉斥次次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
410.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
434.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
无人机是未来作战的一个主要的趋势那不只是无人飞机了所有的无人载台UAV USV UUV水面水下都有我们很多的同仁现在强调的是操作的过程的签证认证那我提出一个建议就是因为不同的载台不同的通讯频宽 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
435.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
459.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
限制因素这个各军种不一样另外一个呢就是当操作过程中间目前所谓的轻型无人机都是在我们本岛使用那使用的条件下就是发生有事说国土防卫在这个情况下所以我们的ROE就是战备规定的交战规则的授权 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
460.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所謂的簽證並不是說操作手他會操作他就要承擔責任因為有兩種狀況第一個是目標誤判 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
497.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
这个责任是由操作手来承担呢还是操作手说我没有办法确认目标因为这种消耗型的我们宁可让它自毁绝对不能达到我们的民间目标或是不能识别那因为通讯频段不同这种出去使用的飞行时间也有限如果国内有它的上一级那上一级就要承担这个责任所以在同时训练操作的技术这个原则下 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
498.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
525.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
同样在我们的所谓的这个所谓的训练班次啊乃至于到只参对于大型的中大型的无人机ROE这个交战规则责任承担上下授权到某个level不是操作首付全责这个东西是希望要持续精进的另外一个传回来的是目标的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
555.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
图像也好影像传回或是大型的甚至有讯号回来回来呢是你传到上一级单位他跟你使用的是Google的图片呢还是有大区的跟我们陆军作战区的UTM图呢这个在将来在操作训练上都要做整合的精进我们现阶段看到有当然好有比没有好但是有还要持续精进我讲的共同图像包括火鞋的图像 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
556.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
581.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
战术的图像还有大区的国防部长官看到整个大范围的图像这个目标的标注位置在大图像上要能够显示出来所以这点我提出建议希望大家共同来努力那最后一个议题给部长做参考就是有关军人条新的部分我本席的建议就是我们退伍军人其实他在服役期间承担的责任跟现役是完全一样 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
582.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
602.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所有的军人我们讲的军人武德自信仁勇言其实他是牺牲奉猿军人不是职业军人是志业因此退伍跟在职其实他应该是享受同样的待遇这点是不是可以请部长指导一下是不是请资源师先说一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
604.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
628.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
報委員我是志願司司長因為這部分其實本部向來都會重視不管是現役還是退役軍人的一個相關的福利那目前的制度上就是軍公教一體他那個退役軍人的他的調薪的部分是由行政院會同考試院來訂定那他的條件就是說當那個消費者物價指數累計到正負百分之五或者是每四年調整一次目前是一致性的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
630.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
647.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
當然我們把軍公教放在一起其實是不同的啦那這是不同的定義不同的解釋因為軍人的志業他的犧牲奉獻以及他承擔的風險跟公教人員跟社會上其他的職業團體是完全不一致的我們私下再來做溝通好謝謝謝謝部長 |