| IVOD_ID |
16637 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16637 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-01T08:30:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-01T11:40:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:09:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db62c05bd4558c40865e5a7d9476abbdb314bfadd538e1bbbf5cf79c1f908e93df5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：審查：
一、本院委員魯明哲等 19 人擬具「再生能源發展條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員謝衣鳯等 17人擬具「再生能源發展條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。
【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:45 - 11:40:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
405.316 |
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405.759 |
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MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1217.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1218.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1261.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1265.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
谢谢观看 欢迎订阅 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1300.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1311.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1876.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1876.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1941.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1942.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
今天是五一勞動節 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1946.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1966.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主席台所有的同仁借这个佳节向中年青年敬业热诚奉献的劳工朋友们表达由衷的敬意谢谢所以我们今天的质询就五加一分钟简短一点好现在进行讨论事项请宣读 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1967.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1967.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
討論事項審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1985.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1997.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
本日議程所列討論事項再生能源發展條例第13條條文修正草案共計兩個版本那現在請經濟部郭智慧部長就委員提案進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2010.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2033.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席 各位委員 大家早今天成功貴委員會的邀請就審查再生能源發展條例第13條條文修正草案進行報告深感榮幸緊究廢棄物資源化利用推動政策以及大院各委員所擬具草案內容檢要報告如下敬請各位委員不吝視角 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2034.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2061.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
非气物资源化利用之法规调试策略自我国98年7月8日制定公布再生能源发展条例以来为促进资源永续循环利用并配合环境部建立国内非气物去化的体系以及强化转废为能的管理政策将经处理之国内一般及一般事业非气物纳入再生能源发展条例有关发电 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2063.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2085.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
夠與熱利用輔助的適用範圍促使廢棄剩餘資財得以轉換為能源進行再利用並結合跨部門力量共同維護環境生態大院委員盧明哲等19人凝聚再生能源發展條例第13條條文修正草案本部說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2087.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2109.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
提案修正第13條第一項第三款規定針對一般廢棄物或事業廢棄物經處理後所製成的燃料明定應符合環境部相關標準使得申請相關獎勵補助二提案修正第13條第三項規定建議配合農業部組織改造修正行政院農委會為農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2111.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2134.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
本部的意见是目前环境部推动之强化转废为能之管理政策与废弃物料源管理空气污染排放等法规明定相关标准规范因此废弃物作燃料再利用自应应符合环境部相关标准及法令 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2136.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2156.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因此,有关委员修正第13条第1项第3款部分提案内容与目前推动方向相互,本部竞表赞同。3.令委员提案修正第13条第3项规定将会同机关由行政院农委会议修正为农业部一节,本部竞表尊重。 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2157.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2160.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
本部的意見是委員提案修正第13條第三項規定將行政院農委會修正為農業部一節本部競表同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2186.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2201.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
感謝大院諸位委員對於我國再生能源發展政策所提供的建議再生能源發展條例自98年制定公布以來因應國際上採用廢棄物能源替代石化燃料使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2202.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2230.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
协助废弃物处理降低环境污染以及产业减碳排放等净零永续的规划因此经济部配合环境部废弃物处理政策鼓励地方政府与企业投入资源推动高效能废弃物能源化设施提升能源使用效率以上报告敬请各位委员指正视教并祝各位委员生理健康出世顺利 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2233.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2252.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好谢谢现在进行询答委员询答前原例作以下宣告每位委员发言时间本会委员五分钟必要时得延长一分钟非本会委员四分钟上午十点三十分截止发言登记首先请陈廷飞委员发言 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2260.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2263.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
謝謝主席 我們請部長還有能源署署長陳部長 署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2272.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2293.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
委員長部長好我想在4月18號其實我們辦公室就已經轉了我們的大地莊園麻豆大地莊園他們的陳情書給了我們能源署也就是說他們的立場很簡單誰都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2294.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2310.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
光電很重要但是要取之有道也就是說我們一直要求光電業者你必須要溝通協調我們將心比心如果說你住了20年的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2311.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2329.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
突然之間這個環境是過去台南縣政府舒焕智縣長一直強調他要去做一個南台灣第一個綠建築的村莊園這邊住了非常多的人是一個集中型的住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2330.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2358.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
結果呢在20年後你跟他說突然之間他可能一覺醒來周邊全部都變成光電板雖然是屋頂型的光電板他還是光電板而且是必須他在室內養殖有一個實質的建物之後在上面蓋光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2359.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2373.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以等於他周邊全部都是水泥建物然後上面加光電板將心比心他們完全被蒙在鼓裡都不知道當他們看到一棟一棟的室內養殖 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2377.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2391.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如雨後春筍慢慢的出現的時候他們才發現知識體大原來他不是只有要做室內養殖他要做的是屋頂型的光電板難怪整個炸鍋整個炸鍋他們求助無門最後拿了這一個陳情書來給我他們陸續還在簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2408.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2432.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我一直都跟我們經濟部還有能源署說我們為什麼不要開大門走大路也就是說今天我們一直強調你要跟地方溝通每一次我們的廠商都是先展後奏然後到了廠商已經看到拿到了相關的執照之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2435.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2461.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
讓地方的民眾產生了反彈你要去溝通 請問你要怎麼溝通為什麼每一次在台南都發生這樣的事件然後每一次都是讓人民很多的失望部長這個部分其實他很單純但是單純到讓地方政府跟中央在踢皮球 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2463.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2485.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
因為地方政府他現在切開因為養殖 室內養殖是拿地方政府的農許然後呢當有農許之後可以蓋了 蓋了室內養殖之後他可以跟我們能源署來申請屋頂型光電板他是不用環評的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2487.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2513.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以他就是用這樣的以法玩法的方式然後把這樣的做法造成地方的反彈那現在問題到你們這裡了光電板屋頂型光電板他一定要跟我們能源署來申請工作許可證好那我們怎麼辦我們怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2516.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2539.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
報告委員我想您的這個部分的槌尋我想我們可以了解一個關鍵也就是說我們在事前沒有跟這個地方的居民有做一個比較好的溝通所以在進行這件事情的時候當然造成居民的不解造成反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2540.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2563.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那這個部分我想就這個案子來講我們中央的態度還是一樣就是說任何的這個公共的這個措施任何的這個辦法在推動的時候我們還是要尋求到當地居民的支持我想這個政府的政策如果沒有這個國人的支持政府施政大概這個意義就不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2563.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2574.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以我想這一部分我們會再多多溝通等到那個居民同意那我們才會可能再來考慮放行這個是我們的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2575.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2601.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那剛才您在說的這個法的部分我想這個也是這個各位大院裡面的這些委員大家來協助對我們這個比較這個方法上面發現有一些比較這個有疏漏的地方的話我想我們這個都可以討論來做修正原則上我們的這個所有的這個綠能政策我們都希望能夠獲得國人的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2602.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2614.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那当地的居民如果他们有反对我们也不会强硬的来通过这样的一个做法部长真的要拜托我们一定要跟所有的光电业者说 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2615.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2634.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們如果可以開大門走大路事前讓所有的居民知道到底你要做什麼事前溝通絕對會比反彈之後的溝通更好來做處理可是你現在大家都反彈了已經對你廠商沒有信任感 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2635.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2663.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以真的這個你們要把關注而且將心比心如果你周邊你住的環境全部都被光電板全部都圍起來了你的心你會安嗎我想我們大家的想法都會一致這個部分我們會來檢討來改善再拜託部長然後我認為其實有很多我們農業部有劃設出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2665.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2689.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
離我們居民比較遠的地方像有些是根本餘溫養殖已經沒有辦法去做處理的還有就是貧瘠地沒辦法建造沒辦法允許沒辦法建造這個部分為什麼我們都不去做這些的一個規劃這些都離人民很遠反而他們都要往人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2690.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2715.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
去擠 去壓 這不是很奇怪嗎是是 報告委員我們現在已經朝這個方向在努力了我們將來會公告哪一些地方是適合光電業者去開發的我們會先公告我們甚至鼓勵他也沒有問題啊 是是不是因為我知道在平擠地他可能距離會比較遠他要做的匱限或所有的設施會比較花重本 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2716.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2719.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以我覺得我們不能說因為這樣子然後讓光電業者為了要獲利然後往我們民眾然後人民的一個居住範圍去壓這是不對的我們這個一定會以國人的福祉為第一優先不會以業者的福祉為第一優先 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2734.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2755.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以部長拜託這個案子請你們要把關好請我們能源署一定要把關好你們的把關才會讓光電業者會有壓力啊這個部分再拜託在還沒有人民民眾同意之前你絕對不能核發工作許可證這個是很重要的拜託 謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請張家俊委員做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2770.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2773.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
主席我想請郭部長部長部長早安委員長部長你今天頭髮吹得特別帥喔讚美你一下謝謝那部長我最近有非常關心你在這個網路節目接受專訪那針對核能研議的議題提出不少具體的看法跟想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2800.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2809.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那上上週本席有提醒你或許購買核電設備甚至他的技術對於美國的這個對等關稅的談判是一個對台灣很好的籌碼那也顯然你很願意深入面對現在政府錯誤的能源政策的這個調整跟挑戰那本席在這裡要表達肯定但是這個能源問題呢真的是不是說朝夕可解的我想要理解說目前您具體的看法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2830.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2849.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
報告委員所謂的錯誤或者正確這個是要假以時間才能夠來作為這樣的斷定每一個時間都有當時的需求那目前針對核能研疫的部分您說您有具體的想法可以說一下嗎報告委員對於您剛才講說的新的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2850.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2867.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
新的科技技術我想我們基本上的原則就是不會排斥我們也歡迎討論那對您剛才所說的核能的部分就核能的部分我們基本上就三個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2868.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2888.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
有我知道這個核能安全全民共識核廢料處理問題你看你講到我都會背了這個是也非常重要的確非常重要那我想要知道說假設本院通過安全年限延長到60年的話經濟部目前有再做任何的積極準備嗎各種的這個情況各種的這個準備我們都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2894.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2921.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
有嗎 類似有什麼準備可以譬如說在去年我們就我們就知道說這個核能的機組會在這個月就會這個下載但是我們的人去年開始一號機下的時候我們人並沒有解散我們所有的人都留著包括核二的人我們都是留著的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2922.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2945.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
因為這些的這個經驗這一些核能的操作經驗是非常珍貴的所以針對核能安全就第一項你講的核能安全的部分呢很多專家學者都有多次的正面評估覺得這是可行的至於那個核廢處理您在節目中也提醒說提起說目前的這個乾式儲存是可行的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2949.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2974.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
現在看起來剩下的關鍵就是全民共識啦因為在之前 我想我們的甘廚廠一直在地方政府申請都沒有下啦去年通過了呀對 所以剛通過嘛 我們現在才開始在建置那這個進度為何呢這個是短期的 甘廚這個還是短暫的但是你把你私廚的轉到甘廚 你私廚就挪出空位啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2975.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2984.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
對 但是這個需要時間大概目前進度是什麼時候這個第一個乾式儲存槽可以完成呢我們現在這個核一已經完成那核二現在施工中大概預計核二什麼時候可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2996.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3003.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
大概今年的年底可以完成大概明年就可以拿到執照那核三目前有任何進度呢核三還沒有還沒有那等於說明年的這個時候你就會有核一核二的乾式儲存槽你施施移到乾式之後你就多了兩個核電廠的核廢料儲存的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3020.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3041.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以這個對於我們要研議是非常正面的剩下最後的這個全民共識啊其實這個這個氣候變遷國家氣候變遷對策委員會的副召集人童子賢先生他都說了台灣民意對於核能研議已有共識是不是你覺得需要公投再進一步確認這個共識呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3043.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3065.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我認為是不用公投所以你覺得全民共識已經有達標了嗎這個不是需要公投才能夠解決的共識問題那這個共識我們意思就是說其實所謂共識對我們來講因為是對安全上面有顧慮的人那我們如果去跟他取得共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3066.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3084.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那就這個核能的運轉那這個核廢料可以處理那這兩個如果能夠解決我想大概他擔心的就是所以核廢料處理您已經在掌握之中了然後包括說這個核能的安全核安全的部分我們認為這個全球這麼多的專家大家可以證明事實上這個40年的運作我們也沒有看到它出過問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3093.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3110.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
沒錯 那所以現在問題就出在於會不會代表未來的20年是不是安全的這個我想要專家判斷那是不是可以盡速做一個評估呢那這個東西 我想報告委員也不是說公投就能夠代表大家就可以看安全一定要專家認可是 那可不可以請部長盡速的指示趕快請專家開始評估因為這件事情是刻不容緩因為河三廠的二號機在5月17號停機之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3122.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3126.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
會產生什麼問題你知道嗎產生的問題是 沒錯台灣達到非核家園但是火力發電廠的比重將高達84%你知道我們中南部中南部的空氣品質有多差嗎你知道我們中南部的孩子都在用廢發電所以這個火力發電的比重提高對於空氣影響的 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3148.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3170.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
河山沒有這個停止運轉之前也是81啊那你的意思是說增加3%對你來說沒有差對你來說沒有差但是對於我就是希望說您在政策推進上要多一份謹慎多一份同理心就是要更多的證據來證明啊你這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3173.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3176.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這個核電停運之後84%的這個火力發電如何不會讓這個空氣品質變差你要說服的是這些地方的父母們零碳的零碳的再生能源跟底碳的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3190.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3211.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
部長 你不要跟我說3%沒有差希望你有同理心我們都希望台灣的能源是更有韌性 更安全這是我們共同努力的目標但是你不能跟我說3%沒有差這樣子的話我相信不只本行沒辦法接受甚至所有的地方政府都沒有辦法接受我不是講說 這個就是我們在努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3212.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3228.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我們從113年的3.4萬公噸那114年我們可以下降到3.1萬公噸我們是在下降的並沒有增加的不像你所說的說84它就是增加的我們是下降的 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3229.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3233.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那你們要繼續努力繼續下降 因為本來你叫台中火力發電廠在美國的雜誌ClimateTrace上面 它是全世界碳排放量名列前茅在全世界都是名列前茅 你仔細看 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3249.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3255.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
下降是對的 繼續下降是對的我們希望空氣品質可以越來越好然後我們的這個供電也能夠穩定就是核能如果可以研議的話我們台灣的產業才有希望我們台灣未來才有競爭力嘛好不好 部長您是這個經濟總舵主你要繼續加油我們是多元的電力啦您的指教我們都會認真的來思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3274.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3290.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們的共識也是讓這個台灣的空氣更好台灣的這個運作台灣的電力更清新這是無論至於但是我要跟委員報告真是81%到83%不會像你所說的說哇大家開始靠廢數你87%本來那個基準就很高啦對啦所以不會說這樣慘了 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3296.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3301.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我們完全跟妳的想法是一樣我們都是為了國人的健康在努力謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝我們現在請張祺凱委員做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3338.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3363.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
請問郭部長郭部長好 委員長郭部長 你說核管法修法過了核三長就可以研立嘛對不對 這是你昨天去專訪以前清清楚楚說的嘛那你知道核管法最近就要三讀通過了嗎 你知道嗎我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3364.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3373.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
5月17號 5月16號就過所以你到時候會兌現諾言也是為了我們企業發展為了我們全民好河山就可以研擬 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3375.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3397.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
在法令的規定之下我們政府一定是在法跟規的規定之下我們來運作那核管法修過了我要看它修的內容是什麼我們還是要在法的框架之下去運作跳脫法的框架我們還是沒有辦法做因為我們是政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3402.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3420.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
柏定你昨天是對著全民講啊 那個是公開的講話我們在核管法修過以後 因為修成什麼樣子我不知道但是修在我們可以依循的這個框架之內 我們一定是依法行事 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3421.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3438.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
框架 這邊的修法的重點就是你剛剛其實說的嘛它是把40年 我們本來40年要除以嘛變成60年 這個是明確有修的第二個第二個 我在那邊明天跟你講事實上為什麼要這樣修因為最近這1到3年啊這個日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3439.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3462.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
就已經把它的40年改成延長到60年了美國有些廠 核電廠還從40年已經變成80年了是跟國際接軌的這次事實上就是你講的 我們是有修這個條文的所以你講的話 你要兌現你的諾言我現在是跟你講報告委員 我是政府的一份子我們一定是遵定所有的法規來行事 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3463.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3491.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以我對在法規之內的事情我承諾的我一定做得到所以你承諾如果修過了就是要核三眼力嘛不然的話你就變成耍嘴皮子的這個部長了不是耍嘴皮子喔所以你有沒有對線你昨天講的話有沒有對線核三場的眼力在法律規定之內的事情我承諾的我就會去做我承諾在法律規定之外的我不會去做法律規定之外的我不會做 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3492.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3520.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我也不承諾因為我不知道你現在是一個假設的命題在那裡我假設啊條文這麼清楚啊就是你昨天對著全民講的啦40年延長到我在講的是在這個法規之內我們基本上還是那個三原則但是你修過了我那個三個原則基本上的三個原則如果今天法律的規定之內我可以做我就做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3520.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3543.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
你不是要在這裡說,你說三個原則裡面核廢料嘛,你說美國會幫我們處理嘛,對不對?你剛才說的還有乾式的儲存潮,乾式儲存潮不短期,乾式儲存潮可以放50年,更重要的先進國家現在都是這樣處理嘛,對不對?美國、日本、韓國、法國,它現在的核廢料放在哪裡?都是乾式儲存潮嘛,而且可以放50年啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3545.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3569.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我們會交給技術部門來確認我想我們也不可能我們台灣在這一方面的領域確實有一些專家但是這種事情每一個世界在世界上每一個國家他買的那個設備的時代跟機種可能不會都一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3571.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3587.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
每一個機器都不會一樣你看剛才真的機器不一樣啦晃出來的核廢物料委員你可能不太清楚就是每一台機器所用的這個鈾原料那個鈾棒是定做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3589.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3609.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這個你可能不清楚我們現在說合會要處理嘛所以你剛才說了嘛你不是專訪的時候講得很清楚全美國包括AIT的處長都講了你說可以請他們幫忙處理嘛對不對啊等於全世界都是這樣放放在幹事的處分場全世界都是這樣沒有錯但是處理的方法是不一樣的嘛處理方法不會一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3611.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3638.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
因為那個規格 所有的 美國可以處理日本可以處理 法國可以處理所有全世界用核能都 核廢料都可以處理現在台灣沒有辦法處理不是台灣沒有辦法 太怪了吧沒有喔 委員你現在又在講話術了台灣可不可以處理我們尋求可以處理的方法來處理OK 好 所以你在尋求可以嘛其實 好來 那你說安不安全 博理你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3639.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3665.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
國際原子能總署啊 對我們核電廠的評比啊是前段班欸 全世界第六名你剛才也說啊 它已經用了 全世界用了40年啊是安全的嘛 對不對所以安全我認為沒有問題啊 核廢料問題也解決了啊第三個 等於全民共識啦你去看看那個最近的 最近這兩三年的民調都馬上是七成以上 認為要重啟核能啊欸 我們還有公投過欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3667.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3695.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
以核養綠對不對以核養綠就是要用核電啊對不對那你說要全民共識這個全民共識是跟台灣民眾的全民共識還是跟賴清德跟民進黨的全民共識如果是跟全民的話那些民調都是啊那我們現在要推動要更領濟全民的共識所以我們推了一個核三言議嘛你說多此一舉這不就是要弄死你們第三項嗎委員你又講錯囉核三言議 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3697.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3720.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
全民共識 你剛才在講 你是講說共識這個問題是你們的前面的共識嘛不是這樣子嘛 你的意思可能是說河山研議要不要公投啦 是不是對啦 公投就在臨近全民共識嘛所以你剛講的那三個條件都符合嘛 合會要處理安全我是講說如果按照你的邏輯來講啦 公投是多此一舉嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3721.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3740.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
你剛才講過了啊對不對你剛才講過了為什麼要多此一舉就是你要公投就浪費錢啊一次就要五億然後又要花很多的時間對不對你們賴清德總統跟民進黨不就是說要有領濟全民共識嗎公投第一個公投第一個是憲法付給人民的權利耶你跟民意要對上跟憲法都對上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3742.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3767.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那第二個更重要你說你要領濟全民共識公投就是一種領濟全民共識的方法啊那個委員你的主張我沒有意見只是人家主持人問我嘛我表達的意思這樣而已好不好我們意見有很多不一樣的意見我剛講說你們講的這三項都已經解決了然後你要公開講說這個核管法因為你的目的通過之後就是要沒有沒有保定我已經講過囉核管法是要通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3770.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3792.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
核管法通過那一天院長也在大院裡面講得非常的清楚核管法通過的時候是大家理性討論然後通過的他不會復議啊你們講說要通過你會不會復議我跟委員報告你可以問院長這是他講的話我想那個也有記錄嘛所以我 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3795.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3802.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
對我來講我的基本原則是這樣子報告委員我們基本原則是這樣在法律的規定之下我們不會預法 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3804.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3823.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
也不會越法我們一定會按照法律核准的範圍裡面去施作這個就是我們公務同仁做事情的一個依規嘛依法就是依核管法嘛現在全民在看我們經濟部長講話算話嗎經濟部長能夠講話不算話嗎現在全民希望你講出人民的需求企業的需求只要在法律的規定之內我講的話都算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3832.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3860.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
算數嘛對不對 所以現在錢比方看你會不會變成 又Q斷了不是啦 要變成是一個耍嘴皮子 耍嘴皮子這個懷疑這個懷疑那個委員 懷疑那個沒有意義啦你為什麼不懷疑說太陽從西邊出來來 保定 你也有一個重點嘛 你說核冷五月全部歸零以後啊不會對空氣有影響我給你看一下喔 去年河山廠的一號機 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3862.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3871.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
除以以後 你馬上跟麥寮電廠就續約啦麥寮電廠燒沒了 對不對這對空氣有沒有影響所以那一天有17個團體喔彰化 雲林 嘉義還有17個團體的民眾到行政院跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3882.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3894.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
監察院來抗議他們講什麼經濟部縱容繼續燒煤本來已經停了嘛我們賣了本來已經停了結果就是因為河山場一號機停了以後你看就是一個對比嘛繼續去買這個賣了的慢性殺人 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3897.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3923.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
他說每多發一度的這個煤就在155公里的麥寮電廠污染的範圍之內這是無差別持續在射殺國人的生命這是一個慢性的殺人麥寮是全台灣第二大污染源這什麼空氣會好呢你從去年的麥寮就看出來它是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3925.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3950.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
然後保定你一直在講說天然氣是乾淨的還有低碳的天然氣我給大家看一個數據這是台電的數據啦台電112年火力發電的排放量在空氣污染這部分啊燃氣就是天然氣喔它是燃煤的在氮氧化物啊它是燃煤的47%不是沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3953.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3966.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
燃煤0.173,燃氣是0.082,是有喔,差不多一半另外呢,PM10,就是悬浦的這個微粒啊燃煤是0.005,燃氣是多少?0.004,85%欸天然氣沒有什麼乾淨的天然氣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3976.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4000.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
他還是有汙染啊對不對他如果跟咱們也比稍微低一點點我們從來沒有講過說天然氣是零碳的你不要把我們說低碳的東西你把它講成零碳這個就是完全用化術對嘛 不是化術嘛不一定不一定我們是理性物質科學在討論嘛你說郭志輝講說不會對空氣有什麼影響嘛我現在跟你說就是有影響嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4001.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4020.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我剛才給你一個很清楚的數據啊你這麼計較這個有影響 微量影響 稍微影響都要這樣子表示我們會依據你希望表達的方式先分析你認為我們應該分析幾這個影響很大嘛 我剛剛跟你講你賣了 你賣了都會用賣了繼續用賣了繼續用我們跟台電是一個團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4028.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4042.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我們跟他的契約行為政府不能夠違反契約行為喔所以你不能用這一個每一次你都用那個契約行為就是到去年的4月就停了嘛你們是重新又去續的一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4046.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4048.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
政府看的契約我們有多少的人在看政府可以違反這個契約嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4065.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4084.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
政府可以違反契約嗎 否定 否定你在這個契約上面再知道 去年的重點是什麼就是麥寮跟台電本來合約已經停了嘛 對不對 是不是這樣25年嘛 那就是因為你核電廠 核伊林被關掉之後你去拿了這個東西又來 又去買 又繼續買啊 買到今年年底啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4085.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4107.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以你人民跟社團都上來抗議啊我都知情過你啊所以當然對我們的健康對空氣有影響對不對第二個我今天拿的是你們台電的資料天然氣也是有污染它當然比這個煤稍微低一點點可是還是有對不對它如果跟核電比當然會增加很多所以我現在是要跟你講你不要講說空氣沒有變異就形容詞在這邊變異啦好不好OK |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4111.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4126.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
好啦 因為我本來要問其他的 時間已經到了啦 保證現在最重要的啦 5月17號 核光法就過了就看你到底能不能讓河山眼力 現在全民都在看不要變成耍嘴彼此的這個經濟破綻 第二個河山 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4128.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4145.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
廠停了之後5月17號之後我們變成非核加鹽我們的電價不只變貴了成本增加了嘛空氣污染也增加5月17號以後你看我會不會漲價啦好不好5月18號各位可以看一下喔5月18號看我們電價有沒有漲如果電價有漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4146.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4163.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
5月18號那天電價有漲我下台好不好5月18號以後沒有漲請委員你說回這句話部長你為什麼要壓5月18號你不是一直在講10月10月份可能電價審議委員會開完以後電價審議委員會什麼時候開沒有錯電價審議委員會什麼時候開電價審議委員會你可以講電價審議委員會什麼時候開電價審議委員會9月底才開啊沒有開怎麼上架你這不話術嗎你要檢視你要駁定你要檢視的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4175.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4202.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
五一七之後你到十一月份會不會漲五月十七一號會不會漲電價你說五月十七一號會起價啊那是你說的啊五月十七之後你馬上會第一時間就漲嗎你當然開電價審理委員會啊所以人民要問你的事你每一次講話都是講第二天以後會變怎麼樣大委員大部長那是不是我們現在我們把時間等待主席要講了啦寶定人民要看你的是十一號有沒有漲價啦OK 好 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4229.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4244.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
現在請鄭正前委員做詢答謝謝主席我想請一下郭智慧郭部長郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4251.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4278.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
委員長部長好因為剛剛有好多委員都提到了5月17號之後台灣就變非核家園的一個環境那因為核管法確實立法院也在修那我絕對認為也尊重您剛剛提到一個點就是說公務人員一定是依法行政依法在辦事這絕對是沒有問題的一個天條謝謝委員是 那我想請教一下就是說因為如果說現在核管法立法院通過的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4279.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4307.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那我們如果說要到河山研議這過程當中最快大概多久可以完成因為我記得之前在幾個月前的時候曾經有官員提到說河管法過了之後呢到河電廠要研議的時候還要好幾年的時間那我不知道經濟部對於這個部分有沒有更精準的一個估算過就說我們河管法過了之後到河電廠要研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4308.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4311.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
大概最快多久的時間可以達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4312.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4340.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
如果按照我們以前的資料來顯示就是合法通過了那我們要確認這個機組是不是可以再run多久這個是一個非常重要的命題因為以前的設計是40年現在要延到60年那我們想60年因為每一個就是好像說每一個設備都有它自己運作的狀況所以雖然其他的國家他們延到60年也有延到80年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4341.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4349.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那因為每一台機組運轉的這個情況不會一樣所以我們還要經過檢查這個設備他要先檢查然後來判斷來確定他確實可以營造20年那這個這一段期間他當然就是不能夠正常的來這個發電 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4360.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4383.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那麼根據以前的經驗上面來看光是這一個確認都要一年多了就要一年多的時間那也許現在的國外的資料裡面顯示也許可以快一點我想這一點就像大家所知道說有很多的民主國家他願意來幫忙我們來做把他們的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4383.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4412.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
其實我可以理解就是說我們核管法如果過了之後我們經濟部有能力比方說在一年左右的時間或者以內就能夠讓核電廠研議我可以這麼理解你的語言嗎這個還有另外一個我要跟委員報告因為我們因為過去的這個法令那5月17號你一定要下載那在這個情況下因為我們的鈾原料那個核電的那個原料棒原料棒基本上都是Telemed |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4413.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4434.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
都是定做的那你現在我們過去的量5月17號下下來大概我們的量大概就是5月底不會再多了所以我們要新的燃料棒過來大概還需要多少時間所以我下閘確認以後要一年多的檢驗各種確認沒問題了以後也許在那個時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4435.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4460.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們這邊可以做的一件事情就是說只要一通過那麼事實上我們就可以去訂這個燃料棒就是檢查認為說可以了我們訂盡量趕快去訂燃料棒但是跟委員報告就是我們所知道的現在的燃料棒因為那個是要不是一次訂一個規格每一支都不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4462.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4481.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以要16到18個月要16到18個月所以說兩個部分把它綜合起來的時候就是說我們如果比方說雙軌進行同時檢查就是核電廠的部分然後同時去訂燃料棒我們最快的時間就是16到18個月才能夠重啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4483.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4509.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這個是最理想的狀況 對不對不是那個設備檢查沒有問題然後我們又可以買到這個燃料棒這樣子我們就很清楚就是說就是我們核管法如果過了之後以經濟部最快的部分我們雙管齊下的時候同時檢查就是核電廠的狀態然後同時去訂新的燃料棒的時候我們最快綜合起來就16到18個月有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4510.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4536.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這可以重新發電最快的速度是這樣子嘛 對不對那我在想說我們當然還有 還缺一個啦因為這個核的發電的部分有一個所謂國際同儕審查啦是 理解 理解不是我們自己說OK就OK啦理解 理解這個也是行政的程序嘛所以說聽起來最客觀上的點最樂觀的數字可能是就16到18個月要重新訂核那個染料棒的問題 樂觀啦 樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4538.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4555.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
所以說它包括我們進一步國內的行政程序還有國際這邊的一個檢驗的部分的時候我們最快三個因素綜合起來就是核管法如果過之後我們能夠最快的時間就是16到18個月能夠重新再發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4556.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4577.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
發核電嘛對不對 你剛剛提這三個因素是這樣子那這沒問題啊 因為我在想說這至少就是有 台灣至少會有16到18個月左右的時間 其實是一個非核家園的一個狀態其實沒有核電的一個情況所以我們市長對所有的那個供電 所有的委員其實都擔心這段時間供電會不會有問題不會有問題嗎不會有問題 因為我們有這個大潭的7號7號機還有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4584.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4597.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
是都有補啦 理解興達的1號、2號機都上來啦上來的量比那個河山下去的量要多很多對 那我今天我想請教一個因為就4月22號的時候我們大林那個5號那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4602.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4614.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
發電機要重新啟動那經濟部這邊當然講了一個情況是因為調度的狀態因為大陵五號機其實已經是一個廚藝的一個天然氣的發電機組那為什麼在這個時間點的時候又緊急去啟動它 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4620.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4640.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
報委員那個是基本上我剛才有跟大家報告我們政府所做所為一切都是在法律規定之內來做雖然它那個是備用的一個發電機組然後在啟動也是在法律的允許之內我們去啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4641.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4666.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
理解你講這兩個點我覺得都沒有問題就是說在法令的允許因為它其實是屬於現在我們的一個緊急備用電力的設施因為它已經除以了所以算是一個緊急備用的電力設施那它原則上按照電力設施空氣污染物排放標準這樣的一個機制當中第二條第一項第11款裡面它有特別提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4668.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4679.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
針對緊急備用電力設施的時候它是專用於供電系統跳電限電期間或其他為維護維持供電系統正常運轉這個部分所以事實上它有設定的時間那因為大齡 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4682.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4706.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
就是電廠的5號機組他除役了之後他去年也曾經緊急動用過一次那今年又緊急動用過一次所以我們事實上就擔心在整個的電的調度當中的時候是不是很吃緊才會把一個已經除役的大林5號機組又重新把它啟用起來可是請部長回答一下報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4707.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4722.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那個是一個我們在假設的狀況它會重啟所以我們一定要維修那個機器可能要維修然後也要試運轉那是試運轉我們怕真正用的時候它轉不起來所以我們要試運轉好 那我想說這個部分因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4723.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4744.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
這跟我們台電公告的資料當中因為沒有特別講到私運轉那我想說如果確實是這樣子的時候那我們希望之後在公告所有的細節的時候能夠更精準一點就是不要造成民眾的誤會因為去年大零五號機也緊急動用過一次那今年又緊急動用過一次所以我們就想說哇 是不是電力很吃緊才會出現這樣的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4746.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4768.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我們會動用當然是在吃緊的狀況但是那一次不是吃緊那個是在Test running因為去年722也發生一次今年422又發生一次對啦 就是吃緊當然也是要因應吃緊所以有一些是模擬的狀況看到我們真的吃緊我們現在還是有我們那個有到8%日間有10% 夜間有7% |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4773.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4796.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
日間有10%然後夜間有7%的餘量這個各位可以打開台電的網站裡面都可以看得到我們現在的發電餘量有多少所以部長我在想說其實所有的委員跟整個經濟部跟所有的國人其實都擔心的是台灣供電夠不夠的問題所以我們一定是希望台灣的供電是夠的能夠一直符合產業上的一個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4797.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4825.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們現在電是夠的但是比較可惜是我們缺的綠電我們綠電還要再趕還要再加強一下子所以說我們今天主席也特別安排了一個我們再生能源發展條例的一個一個詢答所以我最後就問一個問題就是說因為我們現在整個再生條例的一個部分這一次的一個修正當中有幾個點第一個就是很確定讓所有權能或管理人他要負擔起這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4826.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4849.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那他如果沒有去做的時候到的時候沒有拆除的時候他可能會有一個罰款的一個問題那我想請教因為一般大型的這個光電廠大概都沒有問題基本上都可以符合那我擔心的其實是有一些屋頂型的因為這次也規範在這裡頭那屋頂型一般規模比較小那我想請教一下因為之前很多屋頂型的業者他在當時設這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4851.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4874.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
屋頂型太陽能面板的時候都被說服說第一個就是說可以省電嘛這是一個最基本的原則然後第二個就提到說他們其實可以隔熱然後可以防漏水所以如果時間到了應該要被強制拆除的時候那屋主他可能就是一般的老百姓他們不想要強制拆除想要繼續留著可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4875.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4877.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
每千瓦一千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4902.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4913.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
每千瓦1000元 這個部分現在是能源署這邊在收還是環境部在收法令規定是環境部 由能源署代收現在由環境部 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4915.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4932.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
包括能源署代收嘛環境部要求要成立一個回收基金對不對因為環境部的那個基金還沒有法源建立之前先由能源署代收到再生能源發展基金未來環境部有法源可以收的時候我們再把錢還給環境部 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4933.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4947.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
OK 理解那我就要問一個狀態就是說像比方說我們這個回收的這個款項這個模組的回收費用當中的時候含不含一般民眾因為你要拆除屋頂上的部分它有很高的一個成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4948.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4976.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那拆除的費用算不算可以動用在這回收那模組回收的費用裡頭拆除是業者的責任要由業者負責拆除拆除後才由環境部這個基金來處理所以這表示說拆除的部分的時候對於很多民眾來說如果他是屋頂上行的時候他們得要自己去拆除對不對這個費用很大所以我在想說因為這是一般光電其實是20年到30年的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4977.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4990.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
所以20年前設置的人其實跟30年之後他要去拆除的人其實可能是不一樣的人所以我們針對這個拆除的成本的部分有沒有可能在我們的回收模組當中給予一定的一個支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4991.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5020.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
基本上他可以繼續使用那未來如果壞了他也可以做維修但是如果最後壞掉要拆除的時候那要由裝置的人來負責那這個就看他跟當時太陽光電廠商有沒有去簽合約就是因為二三十年前的事情裝置的人可能跟現在的一個我們法定規定的負責的人已經不一樣了所以這邊就會有一個問題所以我們希望我們在立這個法的時候也能更細緻的去把這個部分考慮進來好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5023.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5023.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我們現在請鄭天才委員做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5047.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5072.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
主席 各位委員 有請部長還有能源署署長部長好 署長好 辛苦了今天談這個再生能源發展條例的條文修正我要談的主要是再生能源之中的低熱能 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5074.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5088.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那地熱能指源自地表以下蘊含於土壤岩石蒸氣或溫泉之能源那我主要是談這個溫泉跟溫泉有關的這個地熱能這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5092.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5120.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
地熱電廠進駐部落原住民的部落這個相關的這些統計經濟部地熱裝置延命會的統計是全國有六成七在延鄉部落這個這樣的一個這麼大的比例延鄉已經出現翻天覆地的變化我們看這個台灣地圖我們看這個台灣地圖裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5121.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5131.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
地熱能目前地熱發電案的這些六成七就在我們的鹽鄉部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5136.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5155.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們看再生能源發展條例第14條第二項設置再生能源發電設備與原住民族土地或部落及其周邊一定範圍內之公有土地者應依原住民族基本法第21條規定辦理這裡面談的是再生能源發電設備請問這個署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5160.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5178.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
所以那個起地熱的那個位置是就不算算 鑽井的地方是算的鑽井的地方跟發電的地方都是屬於發電設備的一部分現在就出現在這個研究法21條 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5180.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5203.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
因為這個當然跟經濟部沒有關係啊當時被這個誤解了這條條文啊因為這條條文是我在第八屆的時候提出來修正的所以不包含這個私有土地是其實是錯誤的這個當然跟你們沒有關係啊好再次認為發展條例第十五條之五 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5203.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5228.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
也規定申請地熱能探勘席可或開發席可之內容涉及這個原住民族土地或部落及其作為一定範圍內之公有土地者申請的應以申請前依研究法21條規定辦理所以這個探勘席可就包含這個就是地熱的那個位置嘛是吧包括鑽井的位置 鑽井的位置嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5229.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5251.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
所以他不是只有在他那個那個那個廠房的地方嘛是是包含所以這個部分這個要把它釐清所以你們在在處理的時候因為你們核准都是你們嘛所以這個部分是要把它弄清楚因為基本上那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5253.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5277.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
溫泉,因為我講的是溫泉跟地熱因為地熱屬於溫泉,知道嗎?是地熱屬於溫泉所以這樣一個情形之下那個專井或是炭勘很少在私有土地,都是在公有土地基本上是這樣,所以這個部分在在這個審核的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5280.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5307.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
務必要讓業者能夠了解接下來這是我們需要去努力的地方也希望朝這個方向等一下台灣我也給部長還有署長看在紐西蘭台灣跟紐西蘭差不多一樣大部分地熱都是在原住民族的土地上 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5308.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5329.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
所以這個紐西蘭一開始也是發生了很大的激烈抗爭紐西蘭政府因應這些地熱的開發所以他這個建立了一個夥伴關於信託模式股份的讓影所以紐西蘭地熱發電占比從7%攀升到20%所以他有這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5334.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5359.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
怎麼樣讓一個地熱開發能夠有效然後不要影響到我們原住民族的部落那當然就是要諮商同意那相關的這些開發的這些利益怎麼樣回饋給部落所以這個部分這個是我們要努力的地方然後怎麼樣去因應去修法這個都是有它的必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5361.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5386.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
也有可以是不是可以直接試用我接下來看過去我在中央人民會服務的時候去協調同樣是經濟部的單位的水利署當時來我來看溫泉法第三條溫泉最後一句話溫泉的定義包含地熱蒸氣地熱 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5389.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5410.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
然後現在就是這個第八款溫泉使用事業指溫泉啟工事業溫泉啟工事業是第七款溫泉啟工事業是以啟得溫泉水錢或礦業錢提供自己或他人使用的事業溫泉使用事業指溫泉啟工事業獲得溫泉 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5412.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5441.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
作為地熱利用因為這個法不是農研署的法所以你們沒有接觸過所以我現在把這樣的一個法例讓署長 讓部長了解好 接下來溫泉法第11條當初我協調後來在立法院也三讀通過的條文這裡面就提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5444.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5471.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
像溫泉企工失業收起的溫泉使用費由經濟部訂然後第二項溫泉企用費除支付管理費用外應專攻溫泉資源保育所以要把這些溫泉企用費要提撥到原住民族綜合發展基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5472.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5490.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
作為原住民族發展經濟及文化產業之用所以這個部分怎麼樣在還沒有再生能源發展條例還沒有修之前是不是可以用這個條文因為現在正在開發嘛現在開始了所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5493.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5495.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們現在請李玉玲委員做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5529.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5529.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
您好 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5542.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5566.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這個會議起從一開始到現在我們針對美國對等關稅這個議題都一直是我們立法院這個詢答裡面最聚焦的一個焦點最重要就是因為美國對我們整個經濟體系的合作關係它的漠視而且對我們提高了整個關稅的問題那我們朝野不分黨派一定也會做我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5567.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5588.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
這個整個產業的依靠來協助他們度過這個難關所以在4月4號的時候我們提出了880億這個支持產業這個方案那部長這邊也有到地方去跟他們做一個關心傾聽之旅回來之後的話我們看到我們這次提出來的預算這個特別預算裡面有增加這個50億 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5590.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5612.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
總共不管是工業還是農業部加起來的話總共是930億這個部分但是整筆預算裡面我們看到了我們這次的特別預算是針對這個對等關稅這關稅的問題提出特別預算那這次特別預算的話從我們剛剛講到工業跟農業總共才930億但是他的特別預算是4100億 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5615.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5636.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
所以經過我們預算法的這個83條這個特別預算是經過這個像經濟非常有特別的這個變動變化的情形有的需要的話我們才會提出這個特別預算但是我們看到這一次的4100億的這個特別預算裡面有國土安全的就1500億 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5638.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5657.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
在這個培養人才就這個170億還有這個整個勞健保這個300億通通放進去如果這些都有需要的話一般行政的預算就是用追加就好了為什麼要放進去如果說像部長你特別講到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5659.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5685.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
這個我們這個要追加1000億給這台電這個也可以用追加預算不用放到特別預算裡面是不是你整個包裹的話就叫我們要跟你背書囉因為因為報告委員我可以講報告委員是這樣子我想你也很清楚發生這個關稅對等關稅的這個問題以後那我們雖然提出來第二天就提出來一個881億的這樣的一個預算的規模那個是針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5686.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5703.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
这个关税32%的情况之下造成的面对这个32%关税的时候我们采取的措施但是我们开始在访谈然后到每一个地方去跟业者座谈我们发现比我们想象的 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5705.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5727.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
第二波造成第二波的影響對產業我們是全力支持的你要加到950億我們都會支持對 報告委員我們的意思就是說產業然後它往外外溢的時候碰到一個新的我們沒有考慮到譬如說為什麼裡面有國防有社會安全的會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5728.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5750.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們後來發現美國一直加中國的這個關稅加到這個兩百多啦中國他不可能再賣到美國去但是中國那些東西會跑到哪裡去一定往這個亞洲外溢出來嘛外溢出來就會到台灣啊所以這個是我們所擔心的那個衝擊更大 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5752.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5775.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那個衝擊非常大所以我們目前我們就是禁止傾銷禁止這個受到這個紅色供應鏈進到台灣洗產地這些都是我們必須要額外再發展一些這個費用需要防範的部分這個是更可怕的一個錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5776.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5789.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
然后第二个那一天讲说直接你们也一直在这个指导我们指教我们说不是只有直接那个苏美的厂商它的供应链厂商的供应链 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5792.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5804.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
所以產業我們都要轉型還是協助他們的設備要更新我們都可以包含進去只要針對產業的我們全力都支持不夠的我們再增加都可以那個是在930億裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5806.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5823.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
但是他外溢到這個社會上面社會的安全照顧包括健保也算進去啦對包括為什麼把國土安全也算進去啦是包括委員因為這個以後啊有一些我們台商在中國的台商他會轉移他生產陣地 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5825.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5844.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以部長你的意思是說你認為4100億就是跟這對等關稅有關係而且也跟產業有關係那為什麼4100億我們看到關心產業的不到四分之一是不到四分之一你不能把其他的都包裹進來外溢的效應會比較大外溢的效應非常非常的大包括你要知道我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5851.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5864.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
就是像中國來講譬如說那個啤酒啤酒會大量傾銷到台灣來那你要協助哪一部分我們要防止它你協助哪一部分你還是協助產業嘛那你要協助產業對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5867.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5880.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們要協助的不是只有對這個關稅部分我們要造成社會上面的動盪我們現在提的是特別預算必須符合我們預算法的83條你這些部分都可以用一般預算來追加 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5886.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5898.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
你要懂得預算法 所有一切都依法嘛不然剛才講的依法就是一個法啊這有法源依據的部分我們是依法 報告委員所以依法我才告訴你 這法放到這裡83條我知道的情況是這樣的 4100億我們都是用稅計盈餘來做的嘛因為去年超收了5723億元 包括你們的基底 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5913.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5917.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
有人在講說你最近有這麼多錢嘛那一人都發一萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5918.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5928.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那是沒有辦法的人才這樣講嘛我們有辦法可以照顧全員因為受到這個官稅的動盪補發一萬塊是全民的你說全民的超收的稅金發給全民是合理的那現在碰到這個對等關稅我們就把這5723億做你的基底來協助產業不要外包其他無相關於產業的部分包產業度過這個危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5944.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5972.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
你要知道那個叫聯誼作用那個天壘然後它一波一波就要再一波好 你的天壘就好一切依法依我們的預算法一般行政部分你就一般行政部分用追加的部分你照預算法啊你不能包裹下去就大家跟你背書啊我們沒有包裹我是說這個關稅有影響的第二波第三波的當然有第二波第三波這就是本席要提醒你的你現在從把它包裹進來的話未來你看我們跟美國要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5973.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5979.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
這個談判這個關稅的問題 五月底就要談了所以我提醒你 未來五月底的時候輪到我們跟美國在做這個磋商的時候如果美國還是繼續沒有放鬆這32%的關稅我們是不是繼續擴大 再變這個預算 特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5999.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6004.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
32%美國已經講說它是最高的最高的我們就用32%來推論五頁底的磋商它這32%沒有放鬆你要繼續來擴大對美國的採購跟投資擴大我們再繼續編特別預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6028.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6033.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
沒有 我們現在所做的就是32%所以你說未來就算它沒有鬆綁那你也不會再繼續擴大來變略我們講過了嘛這個是到116年 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6043.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6059.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
116年的年底嘛好不好所以你說到116年你不再擴大編列特別預算來支援這個對等關稅你說的不是我編預算不是現在你說的嘛我的經濟部不是我不是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6060.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6085.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
主席長我也不是行政院長欸你不能用這個問題來問我我說針對產業你不能用這個問題問我啦這超過我的權限啦所以我才說你們有需要的特別預算是針對對等關稅問我經濟部的部分問我經濟部的部分我來回答你好不好好 部長那我請問這次的特別預算是不是針對於美國的對等關稅才提出的特別預算我們經濟部就是針對美國對等關稅提出來的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6088.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6097.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
所以現在4100億裡面都是包含在經濟部產業的需求嗎是需求嗎產業需求所以你認同4100億都是產業的需求很多的想法都是未雨綢繆未雨綢繆就像您在座談會也講說你們不要雨天收傘 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6108.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6129.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
對不對 所以照顧那個廠商嘛我們不預先說 類似這個樣子就是說先考慮到可能最差的狀況怎麼樣那我想行政院應該就是按照這樣第一波的影響可能930億但是第二波 第三波 第二波就是社會的影響所以我才說這4100億都要對我們產業的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6132.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6149.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
提出來因為這個特別預算就是對於關稅的問題才有這特別預算不要無相關的把包裹進來這才是對產業解決他們的困難那個報告委員不是說對關稅一個名目上面的影響而是實質上 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6151.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6179.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
實質的產業需求所以你才去傾聽聽到有什麼沒有做到的部分我們要再來提出特別的預算再增加所以我們看到你只增加50億而已耶對不對所以其他部分的話都是比較不相關的因為那個時候啊第二天又改成說可以豁免90天嘛10% 90天嘛所以那個情境有不一樣我們是參考每一個階段的情境變異 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6180.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6204.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
做出來的推論是 因為你次次提出來的說你就用到116年3年的預算所以才特別說你要照預算法83條因為這個是這樣來編那一般的行政方面的話就用追加不要再這樣子再包括了影響沒有那麼久的話當然我們就不會用那些錢影響沒有那麼久沒有那麼大他就不會用 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6205.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6215.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
這影響有用到那麼多才才有用到好 希望你們把楊棟花刀口上謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝在本席質詢結束後休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6235.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6253.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
請謝依鳳召委諮詢謝謝主席 我想要請郭部長 請郭部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6255.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6275.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
國務長我認同你剛才說的行政單位是合法回歸你已經是行政單位的國務長不過剛才我們呂委員的題目很好但是這不是你的題目你現在你又不是行政院長你怎麼回答是不是你是行政院長了嗎現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6276.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6291.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
報告委員我想這一部分可能是我急了一點我不是行政院長所以我剛才有在講說我沒有辦法替代行政院長來回答這個問題我有後面有講我是說我經濟部的問題我可以回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6292.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6321.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我現在的工作是經濟部部長所以我回答經濟部的問題但是委員剛才這個垂詢是行政院長的事情我只是說我們接到的這個指令就是說不是只有看目前的狀況而必須要考慮到未來可能造成第二波的影響或者第三波的影響我是就這樣來一個說明並沒有替代院長再回答這個問題我就要再澄清 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6322.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6324.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我不會逾越我的職責 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6325.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6349.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
好 那我現在請教你喔這個是美國川普總統他所說的他在29號的時候宣布喔未來美國的汽車進口的關稅他不會是一個over all他會是一個over all而不是分別的就是說不會對對那個汽車製造商課20%的進口關稅或者是加上25%的這個鋼鋁的關稅我想要請問因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6354.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6367.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
变化的过程太快了那到底是怎么样子那你是不是能说明清楚这是你的问题啊而且这对于台湾汽车零组件产业的影响是什么是好还是不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6368.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6385.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
報告委員我想對於這個關稅到現在我們還都還在進行中那美國總統的這樣的改變其實我們認為說到目前為止大家可能都已經習慣了就是說到最後排版為止可能都有變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6386.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6403.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那對我們台灣來講我們有做過幾個simulation我們有做過幾個這個這個所謂狀況的判斷那以目前來講因為我們台灣做這個汽車零組件我們分成兩種但是台灣比較強的其實在aftermarket |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6403.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6419.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
其实比较强是在超市所以这一个部分美国他现在要求说把这个零组件这个供应链可以再调降这个是他碰到的就是说这样子的话反而在美国制造的汽车 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6420.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6441.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
會比在美國以外的汽車要貴那變成說這個美國的消費者來講的話他們可能也不太能夠接受所以這個大概因為這樣子然後這個美國的汽車公司還有美國汽車領土建的公司他們可能也會去Lobby這個跟美國的政府來Lobby談這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6442.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6469.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
所以我想这个最后会造成什么样的影响我们还要静观其变不过对台湾的厂商来讲台湾大部分都是在aftermarket所以在aftermarket台湾有非常高的优势那我也去访谈过我们也座谈过非常多台湾的汽车零组件的厂商他们来讲说只要他们遇到的关税是立足点是平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6470.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6482.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
是大家一樣的他們永遠不會擔心但是如果說給別其他的國家那比較低的關稅那台灣是比較高的關稅這樣子對他們來講傷害就比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6482.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6500.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
但是那你講到重點了現在我們看到了好像亞洲第一個國家要跟就是美國要談結果的可能是印度了那日韓都也在談判的這個過程當中了那我想要請問我們對跟美國這個關稅的談判什麼時候已經最終我們會不會調降 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6509.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6525.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我們跟美國的談判是在進行中所以我們不會是最後談判的那個群裡面的人我們一定是領先群的談判群裡面的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6525.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6528.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
對我們來講我們在日韓之後談我們認為應該也有優勢別人談判的結果我們都可以去推論作為我們爭取對我們最有利的關稅來作為參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6547.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6575.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
就如同你所說的你知道說我們不能夠比其他國家的關稅還要高嗎但是我們有不同的產業有不同就是說競爭的國家那在這個情況下你怎麼樣子就是說我們怎麼樣子能夠說每一個我們都兼顧到那這個部分你怎麼處理以及我們看到了現在目前當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6576.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6595.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
美國不是唯一的市場啦對於台灣的這樣子的一個汽車領主權身為我國的經濟部長你怎麼樣子協助啊怎麼樣子協助產業啊怎麼樣子給予他們政策上的幫助啊讓他們可以走出去啊是不是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6597.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6624.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
報告委員我們現在採取的方式是第一個當碰到這個關稅實際碰到的這些衝擊的大概我們盤點出來有六個傳統產業我們現在第一步是針對這六個傳統產業增加它的競爭力然後降低它的作業成本我們透過AI的這個教導跟做EXCO來協助它降低成本這是我們目前在做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6625.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6646.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
第二個階段6月以後當美國這個豁免90天開始要結束的時候我們希望能夠幫助這些廠商移轉他的這個訂單能夠從新的這個市場包括歐洲的市場包括這個靠近歐洲的中東的這個市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6648.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6677.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這就是我們在考慮印度的市場我們是幫助他們我知道能夠在市場上面能夠讓大家看得到所以我們的貿易署就開始準備了我們這個貿易署編的特別預算有100億有100億是幫助這個業者在國外取得新的訂單那這個新的訂單的話就像我在座談我一直講我們在新的訂單我們會用一個品牌的名字叫做台灣Taiwan Select |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6678.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6703.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
透過台灣Cellar這樣一個品牌把這個訂單帶回來以後交給我們經濟部所屬的20個機構由這20個機構來協助他們輔導的這個中小微企業下去製造這樣子那這個可以去中心化我相信在我們的輔導之下它的成本可以降然後我們又直接拿訂單那這樣子對他們來講更有競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6706.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6706.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
好 謝謝現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6736.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6739.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6758.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6761.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
就是如果台電還要再跟他們賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6787.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6788.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
自己找買家 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6804.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6808.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那就是迴避之地,如果它不在裡面,包括那些燃燒燈,燃燒燈,燃燒燈,燃燒燈,燃燒燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6821.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6824.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
對,他在當事人,以及就要去當事人,當事人對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6849.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6860.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
要按照電鍵的色澤去重新進行稍微褪色也要確認它那個膨脹的醜色一定要重來所以它一定要拆掉一半如果它要重量的話它要拆掉全部的膨脹 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6881.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6883.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
對,還有一雙,還有一雙,還有一雙,還有一雙,還有一雙,還有一雙,還有一雙,還有一雙 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6902.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6903.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
對阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6931.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6944.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
因為這兩年他要成本上漲所以他現在已經三塊多了是三塊多呢?是迴避成本迴避成本迴避成本不算在這個月所以是三塊多也都要上漲現在其實他已經變大了七年了七年了其實人家會把你的話撕裂了真的撕裂了然後反正你還要再跟我聊一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6956.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6967.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
沒有飛機的話,他可以賣啊,他也可以當習慣他的意思是,他明明可以用比較接近的,就可以用大量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6991.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6996.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
昨天那個韓國代表在美國提出一些東西是不是說是日本、韓國、臺灣都一起搞一個鎖定在英國、韓國、韓國、韓國、韓國、韓國、韓國、韓國、韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7024.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7043.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
好休息結束了我們現在請蔡易瑜委員做詢問謝謝趙偉那我們是不是有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7048.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7056.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
吳院好 部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7057.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7084.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
部長針對這一次的美國的一個對等關稅那當然台灣有相對應的措施所以行政院提出了這一個4100億的特別預算那這個特別預算裡面當然是由經濟部來做主責未來會由經濟部跟財政部來做聯席的一個審查那經濟部主責的大概就是在協助產業如何在這個時候第一個要安定第二個要幫他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7085.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7114.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
找到國際市場我想我們在過去幾次的諮詢我們都有講到那針對找協助產業去擴展他們的一個爭取海外訂單這件事那我們現在經濟部的具體做法我想請部長可不可以再說明一下是 報告委員我們大概因為這個關稅的問題造成台灣很多的這個中小微企業可能面臨在這個這個取單上面面臨到一個很大的窘境 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7114.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7130.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
所以我們現在經濟部的做法就是說我們用一個品牌的名字叫Taiwan Select這個來把這個中小的企業把它整合起來所以我們帶他們一起到這個海外去參展 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7131.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7151.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
不要再像過去 他們用兩個boost 三個boost 這個小小的boost然後去個別展 跟恰恰修一樣所以我們現在是用一個大的會館 台灣館台灣館來參展然後讓各個企業都在裡面 都在裡面讓我們幫助他們來取得這個訂單部長 我想你說的應該是比較大的範圍 如果是一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7155.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7179.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
大型的比方說機械展這可能就會有台灣館比方說整個類似的農機展類似這樣的概念但是有一些訂單的爭取那些展覽未必是那種大型的未必會變成台灣整體出去我們大概就是台灣一個品牌然後如果他的公司是比較中型的公司或者是比較比較有規模的公司我們就補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7184.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7204.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
所以說到補助這塊我想跟部長來講因為我們現在這個補助的規定就是說大概我們是看他如果要出去參加展覽然後我們大概就是補助他多少攤位那目前現在大概就是一個攤位我們會補助他4萬塊那如果他增加一個攤位就再增加就給他增加5000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7205.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7224.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那上限就是六萬塊那我回答不斷地說,那裡處理展覽一個攤位,那真的很難看一個攤位小小的,大概就六到八這個平方公尺,六到八平方公尺所以通常有時候要處理可能都要拚三個攤位,四個攤位,讓人家覺得說哇,有這個陣仗做生意就是這樣,做生意你如果不把對面出來有時候那裡長大要催淚,那個誘因就比較不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7233.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7245.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
所以我現在會說你如果用這樣一步走就是說你給他四萬塊 增加一個攤位五千塊可以想廠商要出去爭取訂單事實上他花費是很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7246.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7263.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
但是政府的補助力道看起來這樣小小的是 報告委員我想這一部分為什麼我們這次會增加到100億的預算這個也是這個院長跟這個總統在下鄉跟這個所有的業者座談的時候聽到大家的這個反應 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7264.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7277.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所以我們特別編列了比較高的這個費用來補助啦基本上我們是要改變那個參展的型態啦我們像剛才委員在指教的這樣說兩個攤位、三個攤位太衰、太渺小所以我就把它整合變成一大部分都是台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7288.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7304.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我裡面有各種應用的設施這樣的時候人家在看的人看到大嘛 說大就是美所以我們還會有現場的我們聘的人員我們聘的人員 翻譯的人員這都是經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7306.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7330.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
外貿協會或者是我們貿易署可以做的幫助他他就不用派那麼多人去好 我覺得這個方向都很好所以這個應該就是未來特別預算過後然後這個就要趕緊實施這個要請大院各位委員來協助我相信未來我們應該會跟在野黨也一樣大家一起趕快把這個4100億趕快給過不要拘泥在一些小節 大家要趕快給過 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7331.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7354.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那我再具體建議啦 事實上我想跟部長說我們在這個補助參展 事實上我們應該做產業別甚至營業額來做一個區隔我想要說營業額 我覺得補充 這是我一個建議啦你要是要去外國拚國際競爭事實上如果沒有一定規模的公司 沒有那個能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7355.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7378.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以我意思是說,我們既然要打,是要打國際盃比如說我們在打棒球的時候,我們會不會是組台灣的一軍出去打最強的出力啊,你最強的出力,我每次都會拿大手回來我們最強的對外出力,我就打世界冠軍啊如果還在二軍的,可能就是他們的新調境所以我意思是說,如果這個產業的營業額越大 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7382.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7398.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
應該要給他更多的補助讓他更有能量代表台灣隊去去國際把訂單徵取回來部長你支持這樣做嗎報告委員我想委員的這些指正我們都會朝這個方向來考慮不過我們希望以大代小 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7399.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7407.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
不是只有大的出去這個俄軍的 我要出國去見識一下這樣也很好啊 是啊 是啊以大帶小 以大帶小 以大帶小我們都自己的前提 整合式啦這個大的你要給他 有那個動力啊我們就是整個 整個 各供應鏈以大帶小 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7417.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7444.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那所以事實上我覺得這個補助企業參加參展這個事要趕快推動好不好強化然後第二個我想再請教一下因為我們這一次在因應這個關稅那我看到經濟部委事實上有講到了一個概念叫做要來推動從過去就一直在講的產業園區立體化那我想要問一下部長我們這一次的產業園區立體化我們的具體作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7445.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7448.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我們產業園區具體化,基本上我們用容積獎勵,稍微大家的道路做寬一點,大家退縮一點,然後把原來的廠區我們可以朝高度上面去放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7465.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7492.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
所以是農機有辦法再做一些放寬嘛對不對好那農機放寬的話我想要跟部長說新加坡因為他的土地就那一點點嘛所以新加坡在做他的產業園區的時候都用一個叫做垂直分區的概念這個垂直分區有一個叫做產業上樓有一個叫做生活上樓所以他們甚至說產業園區裡面也有住宅然後也有其他的辦公空間那是新加坡他們的模式沒辦法複製到我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7493.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7509.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們現在經濟部新設的產業園區我們在服務中心上面就會蓋這個宿舍跟生活所需的這個很好可是我現在要問的你剛剛講的大概是產惡啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7510.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7514.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
就是說那個辦公的空間我現在要說的是產業尤其是過去傳統的產業園區那有沒有辦法在這次的產業園區立體化也讓他們打破過去的一個限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7526.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7545.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
就比方說我嘉義有一個嘉泰產業園區嘉泰產業園區他是我們嘉義唯一的甲級的產業園區甲級的產業園區的土地非常的珍貴啊所以他根本就賣光光然後那裡的廠商他也找不到其他的其他的產業園區同樣有到甲級的資格啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7545.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7567.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以他們一個期待就是說如果材料園區立體化我們把我們現有的廠房我們就把它更新更新後給我們容積獎勵讓我們蓋高一點當然在符合所有建築法規蓋高一點的情況之下我的生產線可以有更寬裕的空間我覺得這倒是一個很好的方式啊是的 這個我們是朝這個方向在努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7568.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7593.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好我覺得這方面經濟部趕快把辦法定出來然後有一個具體作為因為我們不是說每次都一直腦袋裡面只想著喔我要再開發新的產業園區我要在哪裡再開發新的不能這樣過去的產業園區我們還是要給他這一些獎勵他們在這個產業園區已經在這裡扎根這麼久如果他們可以透過立體化爭取容積率的話他們會把廠房提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7594.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7614.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
厂房提升甚至他们也可以导入绿能导入更多的东西进来我们会在今年内来公告实施这个部分这个很期待谢谢谢谢委员好谢谢我们现在请邱志伟委员做询答 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7628.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7650.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們先請經濟部郭部長郭部長委員好部長好 部長那個非核家園對我而言不只是一個理念也是一個信仰 更是法律規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7653.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7680.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
這不是任何一個黨的一個目標 或是一個黨的一個理念而是一個國家法律規定 我有什麼要說 環境基本法23條政府應制定計畫逐步達成非核家園 知道了嗎知道了嗎 是所以這是一個法律規定那現在大家都討論說核酸要研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7681.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7694.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
您個人我先問一個背景問題好了未來十年台灣缺電的可能性有多大未來十年我大概我們討論過了到2032年 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7697.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7714.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
2032就是未來七年目前的設施啦跟可以上來的2032年絕對沒有問題絕對不會有缺電的任何可能性這可能性趨近於零對不對我不能說百分之百這可能性趨近於零嘛是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7715.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7731.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
這個我們也就是說到2032年是絕對沒有問題那你要講到2035年後面那個三年我說2032年就為七年之內沒有缺電的問題沒有缺電的問題那你2032之後呢它那個包括再生能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7732.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7757.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
包括這個LNG 燃氣各種的這個再生能源都會慢慢的比例會越來越高對不對是我們需要投資的一定會降低嘛那也是我們目標所以這種情況之下2032年你說2032這7年之內絕對沒有缺電的問題對不對2032更沒有缺電的問題因為再生能源全部補上來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7762.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7787.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我們現在是這樣 報告委員我們現在是再生能源我們是這樣到2030年我們所有的多元的電能裡面再生能源會從明年的20%到2030年的時候我們會升到30%也就是說再生能源增加主要是因為台灣的業者他需要綠色的能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7788.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7807.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
他需要綠色的能源基於這個綠色能源所以我們的再生能源會來到30%2030就30%所以我們明年要讓這個再生能源來到20%這就是屬於綠色能源所以您這麼贊成我覺得我請教您您這麼贊成核三營業呢您這麼贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7812.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7819.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我現在是經濟部長我是依法行事如果法令規定這個原意現在法令還沒有修嘛有政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7827.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7854.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
有個人有立法委員有縣市所長希望核三原議我想請教您個人的意見您贊成核三原議嗎核三原議有三個原則啦三個原則啦就是安全無力成本時間嘛權源有共識核廢料可以處理如果這三個原則可以大家都可以同意的話我就去執行所以你有前提的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7855.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7874.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
有條件的支持不是支持我是執行執行我有經濟部長嘛我個人看法你這三個條件這三個條件基本上都沒有辦法有共識你說核廢料這些主張要核三要研議的或者要重啟核能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7876.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7889.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
哪一個縣市所長哪一個立法委員哪一個民意代表他敢說他核廢掉放在我的選區放在我的縣市你有聽過有這樣的縣市所長有這樣的國會議員嗎他們有曾經表態過嗎沒有嘛對不對他說要支持核三要延誼核三要延誼你核廢掉要放在以零為貨嘛你懂我意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7906.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7931.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
你敢說要核酸研疫,好,研疫,你核酸研疫我來處理,放在我這個館區,放在我的山谷,有人這樣說嗎?沒有人敢這樣說嘛!這樣就是政客,不管是館市長,或是任何政治人物啊,你的言行要一致啊!我看到這個,真讓人很煩惱,就是說政治人物言而無信, |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7933.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7958.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
現在我不說 過去說這個聲勢利潔 現在就全面反對過去是全力贊同的 現在是全面反對你看他很多這種人所以我是覺得河山這個問題 你要有立場我覺得你剛剛說的是你的立場 三個條件社會共識對不對 安全嘛 另外核廢料可以處理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7959.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7982.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我這個是非常高的門檻這個不可能完整這個滿足是三項條件所以我可不可以再解讀你不支持河山演繹我還是依照這個三個原則在處理啦因為我是這個公務同仁我們的公務同仁也必須要依法依規然後來執行這些事情你是行政部門主管你當然要有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7984.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8005.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
經濟部主管 你要有一定的立場 你要有一定的態度我就是執行行政院的命令行政院的命令是什麼你修法 還沒有修法 但是你行政院要有態度啊一樣 這個不管有修法沒修法 我就執行行政院的命令我個人啦 只要我在立法院 我覺得是堅決反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8007.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8031.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
坚决反对而且我觉得这是国家法律规定不是个人信仰不是政党的目标另外这个汉祥是国家队汉祥也是经济部所属汉祥跟中科院有一些合约纠纷我觉得部里面要来处理一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8033.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8059.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
他那個關鍵的系統件沒有辦法交貨的原因當然不能歸則於漢祥不能歸則於漢祥所以因為全球產業鏈供應鏈中斷不可抗力因素而不是公司的個人管理的問題所以這樣中科院要給他發10.9億十幾億 十幾億對公司造成很大的影響經濟部主管的漢祥也是漢祥國家隊的隊長 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8062.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8090.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
這樣 我覺得喔 應該要跨部會協調不然你要了解 要跟國防部協調因為中科院 中科院應該是國防部吧你要了解這件事情 那麼你來協調幫我安詳這個問題好 我們來進行另外 過去有個施政農董事長啊其實在我的社會上每天 去一個海洋科學園去這部分啊 我最了解沒人比我更了解 我每天在那 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8092.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8113.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
所以海洋科學園區 它是他個人的想法那我是覺得啊 新南海是要轉型它沒有行李嘛 不動嘛 所以要專行那地還放在那 石壁都在那 樹木都在那那十幾公頃 不 二十公頃 地還有地 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8117.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8144.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
趕快起來差不多40公頃我也曾經請這個經濟部啊產業園區管理區召開這個會議我講什麼都很重要特別是針對這個海洋產業海洋科技海洋產業的科學園區很重要所以剛好這個機會新的海地可以轉型那沒有腹地又可以帶動地方的發展地方又有需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8146.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8167.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
又可以帶動協定湖內的發展所以這個要大力促成因為我的爭取之下包括北高雄產業園區包括白浦產業園區包括未來的鹿竹產業園區如果不是在那邊質詢這個三個園區不會從天上掉下來不會現在運行一定任何產業園區一定要大力爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8168.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8188.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以我未來希望說海洋科學 海洋產業園區啊能夠在這邊落腳順便以協助新南海地的轉型我們朝這個方向來研議你們要有失聲表那進度要控管一下好 謝謝我們現在請賴瑞榮委員做巡檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8202.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8226.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
好 謝謝主席 請郭部長先請教一下 主席總署有公布了今年第一季的GDP的成長率5.37當然大家對這個數字上有很多不同的解讀部長怎麼看這樣的一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8227.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8250.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這個我想這個本來就是大家預期這個川普總統這個上來以後可能會對關稅有一些要求所以大家可能在原來的這個比較低關稅的時候趕快出貨趕快出貨在美國的buyer也會有這種想法是所以這造成我們大概所以這個數字上第一季會有這樣的一個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8252.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8280.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
對 但全年度的部分應該還是努力在以保三為目標啦我們現在大概看喔第二季大概也會有比較高的這個部分啦那第三季以後就不知道了就真正的這個關稅落零以後要看談判最後的結果啦對對對但是如果以目前的狀態我們應該還是努力在維持在三以上嘛我們希望是這樣目前的這個現在四月嘛四月結束了嘛今天五月一號我想四月份大概也都是三以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8280.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8306.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
都是這樣以上 對那如果加入政府的投入4100億的特別預算的話這個我想這個機會應該是相當的有機會的我們希望說今年還是能夠保持原來這個估計的這個這樣的一個部分去努力但是真正的這個最後談判的結果會造成什麼樣的影響現在目前還是這個很難去部長那預定談判時候什麼會出來什麼時候會出來預定 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8307.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8331.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
如果按照進度來講就是說第一批的這個75國應該都會在7月前談了一個大致啦因為他也不可能每一個國家都跟你談嘛那他大概是全面的幾個標竿的國家先談嘛談完以後後面就比照辦理我看川普應該也很急啦也希望盡快的談底定因為看到內部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8332.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8354.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
他太久的話大概對他的這個內部的影響也很大啦就看他美國今年的第一季也是不好嘛對對所以談太久了恐怕對他也有相當大的一個壓力所以我想這個應該會盡快來談完那我也請教一下因為我們的製造業的景氣其實2月3月也有了變動其實有段時間像2月幾乎爬到的是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8356.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8371.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
黃紅燈啦齁其實相當不錯但是到了3月降到了黃藍燈齁啊這個當然我認為當然跟川普這些都有相關的一些影響動部長怎麼看是啊確實台灣的這個經濟受到美國的美國的這個關稅的影響確實是非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8372.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8391.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
所以這個燈號的部分也會受到景氣上的影響因為這個是所謂外部來的外部環境的變異所以我想這個是我們都會高度的關注這樣的變異未來的發展會造成什麼樣的現象我們期盼在跟美國的談判有一些好的結果之後對我們的景氣對我們的經濟成長力都有好的一些幫助跟影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8395.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8407.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那再請教一下今天好像有人到經濟部去甚至有立委去那批評龐氏騙局部長怎麼看?是這樣嗎?這個我早上一大早就在這裡沒有進經濟部沒有看到這個現象那這個包圍經濟部這個這樣的一個活動如果是合法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8424.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8443.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我們都尊重所有的這個國人的這個合法的行動如果是不合法的我們就要檢討為什麼他會採取不合法的這個行動那是不是龐氏騙局我對這個沒有研究那我問一下他裡面講的是他認為政府的現在能源政策是錯誤的部長認同這樣的看法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8447.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8471.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這個就是我一直在講啦所謂正確或者錯誤是用什麼時間點來回顧那個情境啦不能講說你不喜歡的你就講它是錯誤啦那每一個時期都有那個時期的一些決策啦當然你現在來看我是不是想請教他說那你對流辮子清朝流辮子這件事情你認為是正確或者錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8472.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8488.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
是不是所以我們不能夠用現在來評論過去的這個這個是對的或者錯的不過我還是要強調在當下這樣的狀況下的時候非核家園還是入法的還是在朝野的一個共識下的所以政府當然依照相關的法令必須來執行嘛對不對沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8491.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8517.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這個包括核能的部分核廢料處理也沒有達成共識嘛很多的那甚至於燃煤的部分大家也覺得燃煤空污要改善所以燃煤很多的很多縣市也都希望不要所以發展綠能這個方向是國家的趨勢也是正確的方向嘛所以我覺得不能夠把這些東西全部倒到最後來全部用簡單的一句說你現在是一個錯誤的能源政策我看不出來講那些錯誤能源政策你的能源政策是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8518.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8541.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
非核加鹽是一個國家的基因 這也是朝野的共識然後核廢料無法處理 確實也是個事實然後核能安全怎麼樣 國人安心 確實目前沒辦法提出一個所以在當下這個階段 這個就是目前的狀態那發展綠電也是目前的整個國家的政策 也是世界各國的政策啊所以我看不懂 這樣的批評跟這樣的評斷的時候 你是用什麼樣的利潤基礎來談的 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8542.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8564.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
每一個人就像每一個人吃東西一樣有他的口味一樣啦那要講出一番的那個就像講的這個黑的講久了不會變成白的啦那我也擔心的是這樣子不斷的去攻擊不斷的去攻擊能源政治好像就變成國家能源政治錯誤的那也請提出來那你具體可行能源政治是什麼這個我們會報告委員這個部分我們一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8564.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8593.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我也澄清了要不斷地講我非常擔心三人成虎講了一百遍有可能講到後來就變成好像就是三人成虎嘛我想成語故事上面的三人成虎很擔心這樣子台灣講台灣獨裁講一百遍好像台灣真的變成獨裁了一樣就是我覺得這個這個是一個很錯誤的這個部分我們台電一定會同樣的一直講好像是能源政策好像圖利什麼什麼綠電圖利什麼什麼好像講久了講到後來變成好像是真的一樣全世界都在發展綠電如果哪邊有違法就抓出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8594.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8618.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們認為就是大家依照法令的規定你認為違法就去提告我們就是按照這個法的規範下去處理嘛講一百遍有可能就變成讓大家模糊掉了啦所以我這個希望還是能源部要不斷的大力的去說明成績包括台電這幾年我們其實努力下空汙大幅的改善這也是很多人重視我很重視的啦從以前的時候我記得我90年前 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8619.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8646.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
當然例如說我一直盯著空污的數字因為發展綠電因為我們減少了這個燃煤所以我們的這個空污大幅的改善這對於南部對中部都很大很大的幫助這些絕對都是貢獻所以我覺得這些東西應該要去正面給予肯定那也有很多人不斷的在造謠說台電是因為非核政策而導致虧損部長要不要再澄清一次我們一定會再次澄清是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8647.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8661.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
核能的這個能源政策造成台電的虧損了嗎完全不是啦我想這個裡面在這個邏輯上面有需要再導正的部分這個要持續的澄清因為核能最多的時候大概佔台灣的發電大概10% |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8666.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8673.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
這個10%到現在剩下3%你說3%我現在拿掉然後就會多大的影響這個我想這個3%會影響97%多少我真的就是無法想像 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8681.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8700.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
怎麼會用這樣來催促部長要大力的不斷的去澄清好不好虧損的問題不是這個造成虧損是因為我們過去的買的這個原料比較貴在因為戰爭的時候買的不是只有台灣買比較貴日本也貴這個韓國也貴這個我們鄰近的國家他們都買很貴而且他們的電價事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8707.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8732.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
都比我們貴對 所以這才是根本的原因嘛你買進來的價格變貴了但是我們又不讓台電漲價 我們政治上希望不要漲價所以導致台電承受了這些嘛那我接下來問了 接下來我們也提出特別預算了在地方講的時候 很多人都講說希望支持台電不管是立委 或者地方的民代 甚至很多企業都希望支持台電我們現在又再次提出來一千億的一個撥補的部分部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8733.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8750.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那如果最後一樣沒有在野黨或者在野黨的支持一樣沒辦法在立法院得到這個一千億的撥補的話會不會影響到接下來這個我們的電價的調漲的壓力報告委員我想電價調漲還是由電價審議委員會他們做決定啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8754.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8771.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那他們會參考這個目前的這個狀況如果台電能夠忍受多久的財務的負債比已經達到九成了如果我們要馬兒不吃草又要馬兒好這個其實是有困難的所以我希望是 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8772.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8792.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
台電要穩健的經營如果是因為這樣而造成的那當然國家財政這幾年經濟成長率不錯有盈餘的時候由他來撥補我認為是最好的方案因為穩定電價也穩定物價是最好的方案對全民的影響是最低的也不會造成整個經濟上大的波動那如果遲遲的不給的時候台電當然勢必虧損會持續加大你又不給他漲電價他持續虧損持續會加大所以我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8796.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8825.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
部長強力的持續的去說明那我們希望朝野大家一起來努力這個台電是台灣的台電也是大家的台電那電力大家都希望穩定的供應剛講過的缺電沒有這樣的問題的時候我們希望更多人支持台電讓台電穩定的供電穩定的發電讓台灣的產業民生都能夠持續的有好的一個電力好不好希望持續加強溝通說明是是好謝謝謝謝部長好謝謝我們現在請宗嘉斌委員做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8837.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8866.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
主席在場的委員先進列席了總經理事長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們經濟部郭部長和能源署的李署長郭部長李署長委員好部長好署長好你看第一頁部長您是個企業家來自商業界商業上解決自己的問題和解決別人的問題最大的差別在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8868.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8891.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
直覺反應商業上他想來我直接看看您答案對不對您要給我評題一下解決自己的問題要花錢解決別人的問題可以賺錢您同意嗎這個同意那這個誰很會做新加坡跟台灣都很會對不對新加坡跟台灣都不產石油啊結果我們都有很大規模的石化業您覺得誰的規模比較大新加坡跟台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8896.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8922.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
新加坡 這個我不清楚 新加坡比較大這很特別嘛 那它是供應給誰呢 我們來看一下新加坡是世界三大煉油中心之一啊新加坡除了金融業跟觀光業之外 它的行業幫它賺最多錢因為它周邊有產油的馬來西亞跟印尼它透過填海遭遇涉熱大量的煉油廠最重要是什麼 麻六甲海峽呢世界上 哇所有的郵輪都要從那邊經過 是不是這樣好 那往下看 那 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8927.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8935.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
新加坡的燃料它是供應給船舶用它的石化業那你覺得台灣的石化業是做什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8936.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8959.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
是 那做下游產品嘛對 而且我們不是自己用 我們還出口對不對所以我們跟新加坡自己的船隊啊它在全世界只有占1.3% 1點點它煉那麼多的油都是給路過的船舶使用 賺人家的錢台灣的石化業進口那麼多的原油做出來的石化材料也不是自己用而已賣給別人 也賺別人錢 您同意嗎是好 往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8960.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8986.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
所以新加坡跟台灣都有船 航運船隊那剛剛我說了嘛新加坡的船隊當然在自己那邊加油啊台灣的船隊會在哪裡加油 你覺得看他的航線吧看航線我們要看喔台灣的航運能力我們前貨運的十二大航商台灣佔了三名我們的運力快的市佔率在全球快了一成所以這個船隊是不是規模很龐大 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8988.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9017.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
很龐大嘛但是他在哪裡加油呢我可以賣個關子往下看現在為了降低碳排應用而生的氫能產業你覺得在台灣他除了發電工業製造還有運輸哪一方面需求最迫切我們往下看我再給你看一下台灣要降低碳排所以我們的氫能未來要供應給發電供應給製造供應給運輸運輸又有陸海空你覺得哪一個占比最高哪個需求最迫切 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9019.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9044.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這個都在未來吧 現在氫能沒有那麼大氫能沒有那麼大 是我們要降低碳排那你覺得現在世界各國都在研究氫能怎麼樣來降低碳排要看成本了 報告委員我想這些東西 替代的能源是這樣的就是方法有很多但是就商業的考量來講我們還是要考慮那個成本是 除了看成本之外 成本會用什麼來做碳稅就是一種成本 我們往下看其實呢 在運輸的領域當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9046.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9075.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
陸海空現在對氫能需求最陰氣的是航運我們往下看IMO是國際海事組織它已經規定了為了降低溫室氣體排放在2028年開始如果你的船舶用有沒有用低碳燃料可以用課100美金到380美金的額外的碳稅所以部長你說對了嘛是不是價格出來了如果你不是用低碳燃料你就會被課碳稅嘛同意嗎所以你覺得航運是不是很迫切需要使用低碳燃料 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9078.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9103.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
所以低碳燃料目前對我們航運的衝擊是什麼長榮他去年買了24艘假存的雙燃料未來他會再訂11艘24000噸的LNG的雙燃料連萬海都要用生質燃油導入那剛剛講了航運就都看很遠一艘船訂下去要用二三十年雖然是未來的事情現在就開始做準備是不是應該要這樣做企業家是不是要這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9104.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9128.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
是嗎 好 往下看但是剛剛揭曉了 我們關谷的陽明海運呢它到哪裡去加低碳燃料 到韓國啊 您說的沒有錯氫對台灣來講 它是一個進口的 價格也比較貴所以我們的船隊 自家船隊要用的油 低碳燃料要到別的國家去加台灣有沒有加注生質燃油的能力 署長有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9129.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9145.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
台灣可以生產生殖染料有這個生產的能力但是目前我們像現在那個玉米玉米都可以來做生殖染料但是目前有沒有供應給我們傳播用呢因為市場太小我們台灣這個市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9147.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9171.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
市場怎麼那麼小現在全世界的航運公司2028年要面對100到380美金對一個大的製造廠來講我講的不是工業製造我講的是船舶燃料往下看所以未來為了滿足IMO的溫體的排放所以台灣要思考有沒有可能幫這個船隊經過台灣海峽的船隊佔五分之一的世界航運量 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9172.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9180.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我們國家的船隊佔十分之一的航運量這些船舶有沒有可能在台灣加注低碳燃料這是不是一個市場部長你認為這是不是一個市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9182.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9210.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
就我商業的看法啦就是通過台灣海峽來台灣加油的這個機率不高因為它要加低碳燃料嘛所以我的意思就是說其實我們高雄港來高雄港然後來轉運高雄港變成一個大型的轉運中心的時候那在這個地方加油這才有機會啦是的 沒有錯所以您說的沒有錯如果是在這邊有吞吐它跟新加坡的馬六甲海峽有吞吐的時候它會同時加注燃料 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9210.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9238.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以他說的是說其實在我們思考輕能產業的時候不要只有經濟部思考說用來替代我們的LNG的火力發電的燃料要思考到說舉例講啦有人說不要為了喝一杯牛奶去養一頭牛對不對但是如果你家有個小牧場你可以跟大牧場批很多原乳來加工成鮮乳賣給全社區的人所以台灣有沒有綠能 有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9239.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9261.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
有沒有風電 有嘛 有沒有光電 有嘛 但是車子就不夠了 這些電呢 直接供應電力供應都來不及了有沒有可能去煉傳播燃料 不可能但是我們如果有這個技術 我們可以進國外類似原料的氫原料煉製成傳播要用的低碳多元燃料 你覺得有沒有可能這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9263.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9289.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
這都有可能啦商業模式都可以發展是的所以就是因為是未來的模式所以拜託您發展往下看最後結論因為我國的港區跟我國的船隊規模有提供多元低碳燃料家族的業務所以請經濟部研究一下國營事業包括台灣中油有沒有帶動民間產業煉製及供應港區多元低碳燃料的可能性可不可以去請能源署評估一下是我們可以評估那我當然我昨天也問過交通部長了 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9290.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9317.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
未來如果要對我們的港區的船舶提供多元低碳燃料也要專用的管路跟儲槽這個就是交通部的事情了所以最後我要請經濟部還有能源署跟台電和中油本席將會召開公聽會我會請交通部跟經濟部共同來研究氫能產業除了在台灣除了經濟部取代陸運的汽車用汽油氫能代替汽油用這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9319.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9331.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
輕能代替LNG的發電之外有沒有可能鎖定船舶燃料這個檜面來把台灣打造成一個類似新加坡為我們國際航運的船舶加注多元地毯燃料的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9332.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9354.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
署長你要不要補充一下我們來研究啦我要跟委員報告所有的事情其實最後還是成本來做決定是的所以就是碳定價的問題如果說今天我們經濟部有辦法評估2030或2035年我們可以提供一個什麼樣的低碳燃料的定價那交通部就會告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9355.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9371.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這樣的定價的低碳燃料我的船舶需要多少的量你就可以去規劃產生這樣的低碳燃料的一個建置規模交通部也可以去規劃供應這樣的低碳燃料給船舶的一個港部設施這樣的一個建議你會不會去評估我們來評估啦好 謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請楊求英委員做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9386.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9390.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
謝謝主席 陽泉發言 邀請部長郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9398.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9401.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
最近電價議題引發了討論請問電價長不長到底是誰可以決定電價審議委員但是我沒有看到過去你們都這麼說都告訴我這麼說是電價審議委員但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9417.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9426.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我們看到賴總統行政院最近都接力的說撥補了一千億就可以不調電價請問這不就代表著電價調漲是政府在背後決定嗎報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9436.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9455.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我們是可以把我們的情況跟未來發展的我們改善他的財務情形然後讓委員去做決定委員是獨立的當然這是之前部長一直告訴我的是由電價委員會來做決定我也建請你將我們所討論的內容給電價評議委員會審議委員會但是總統先生這麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9462.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9477.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
行政院這麼說他們說了算了嗎是嗎不是 報告委員是這樣子總統當然他了解非常大的狀況今天台電因為財務的狀況導致於他疲於奔命為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9478.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9492.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
他已經90%負債了所以總統先生說的你聽不聽如果說這個撥補了1000億就可以不調漲電價你會照著他所說的去執行之嗎我們大概這個是一個邏輯的評論一個邏輯的評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9495.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9515.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
總統邏輯的評論一千億下去那麼可以改善他的財務那麼我們也會建請所有的審議委員他們是不是可以朝著不漲價的方向來考量所以您現在所說的總統先生我們在媒體上看到的是說他是一個邏輯的評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9517.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9522.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
是嗎他只是這樣講嘛他只是這樣講所以不是真的不是撥補一千億就不會漲價是嗎那個委員你不能這樣子講不然怎麼說呢請做說明總統講的時候那個情境只是告訴大家嘛我今天撥補一千億那我大概啊這個方式啊可以讓台電在將來再考慮要不要這個重新調整價格的時候可以考慮是不是不漲價 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9545.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9563.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
所以還是問號還不是決定號所以本期要請教這一次的預算特別預算裡頭4100億當中我們也有行政院也包括要撥補台電1000億元這就是剛剛我們所討論的如果你可以說撥補了1000億你就不漲價當然我們有討論的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9567.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9581.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
你點頭你點頭那所以本家要請教我是同意你現在講話喔我怎麼很怕你如果我點頭你就說我同意不是啊我們兩個在尋答嗎要講清楚吧所以總統今天這麼說我也要請你說明清楚啊對不對請說明不是啊那你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9586.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9608.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
說我點頭的這件事情我只是呼應你剛才在講的這一句話非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常好啊 呼應對啊非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9615.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9629.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
不要變成財務的黑洞那當然有討論的空間嘛那所以本期要告訴你因為以前我們已經砸了3000億來撥補那店家又多次的這個調漲民生的部分統計大概是40% |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9631.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9654.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以到現在還是虧損繼續跟人民這個繼續要漲價啊所以在這樣子的話之下證明我們真正的原因是我們的能源政策它的來源它的來源才是最重要的根基啊報告委員我們大家都很清楚台灣的能源是多元的能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9655.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9670.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
各種能源我們能夠用的我們都用好部長你講的這個就非常好我們能夠用的我們都要用但是我們能夠用的本席告訴你我們廢核把核電平均最低的1.12元成本最低的要廢掉不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9671.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9696.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
煤跟氣的一個發電成本是2.5塊到3塊左右你像開發商所買的風、光、電是5塊到6塊半這也就是您所說的各種能源我們都需要用但是我們就是有學者來支出我們統計的這個數字說去年購入火力發電跟風、光、電的這個額外支出那就會加總又超過了600億 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9697.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9710.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教我們現在再生能源的發展跟不上你電力的這個需求嘛所以你必須要買你必須要買這是你虧損的主要原因啊我們要怎麼樣去調整要怎麼樣去調整我們目前政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9719.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9736.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
又貴又錯又缺的這個能源政策啊我們要怎樣去調整我告訴你在你回答之前81%的是這個化石的這個材料因為它是因為過去的漲價導致於我們在成本上面的高啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9736.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9739.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
對 所以部長你這麼說就是本席繼續要跟你討論的台電自己本身所提出的財務改善計畫他特別說了實話他說就算你3000億萬再撥補2000億2026年到2027年他一樣會虧損 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9753.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9778.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
因為台電說他沒有辦法單靠自身努力去達到損益兩平而且他還具體建議如果燃料成本波動可考量適度的調整民生電價或政府持續的補助民生用電這是台電自己所提出的財務的一個報告所以看到這些本席要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9780.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9784.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
撥補完還要漲價 漲價完還要再撥補那這怎麼辦呢北京絕對據實的要求不能把人民當為是體管機這一點非常重要 你們應該要從你的能源政策真正的去探討這才是重點啊 部長 您請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9802.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9820.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
報告委員我想你們的這個指教我們都會參考我們也會去檢討為什麼他會這樣子說他到這個2026年27年還是虧損那我們會檢討他在上面的報告的內容到底是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9822.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9841.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
部長 這是台電自己本身所提出的報告也就是他們真正所需要的所以你經濟部應該要好好的去協助他們你必須釜底抽薪 從能源政策去檢討啊要不然你告訴我們說總統先生所說的 你認為他是一個評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9842.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9851.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那人民到底要依靠什麼要依靠什麼原本大家還講你如果真的撥補了1000億就不會漲價你可以答應我們嗎你可以答應我們嗎如果我有這個權利的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9858.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9871.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
你是部長啊你沒有這個權利啊所以本席本來要問你如果撥補了一千億你要答應我們不漲價是一年半年還多少年你告訴我你沒有這個權利那我們民眾要怎麼辦呢這個漲不漲價是 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9874.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9885.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這個電價審議委員會的權利嘛我怎麼可能是好 那這個議題我也希望你來反映民眾不可以當為提款機你們必須要真正的從能源的根據去討論那最後一個議題喔我要請問我們說要購買SMR |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9891.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9916.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那我也聽到你的專訪 我很歡喜因為我們採開放的態度所以本學要請教 未來不排除採購小型模組化的這個反應爐SMR那我們目前的政府 您說我們有在做規劃 有在推動這個技術請教目前的進度規劃如何呢那我們是不是代表著政府不再堅持非核家園 請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9917.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9938.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
報告委員我們講過了對新的科技的能源新的科技的這個能源科技我們並沒有排除基本上在這個它是安全的它是核廢料可以處理的那麼人民有共識在這個三個前提之下我們都歡迎討論所以目前我們您所專訪所提出的SMR我們確實有在規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9940.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9956.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我們有在我們有在討論這個議題我們也希望有一個方向也可以告訴我們但是本席要告訴你因為每一次討論到這個議題也就是環境基本法23條本席也有提案也就是逐步達成非核家園改成淨零碳排的目標你同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9961.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9990.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
方向應該是這個我們如果是這個立法院的決議我們當然一定要尊重好所以如果這個法案通過也就是換句話說取消非核家園那麼您是支持的那本席也希望大家一起來支持因為目前我們必須跟世界來接軌也就是說環境基本法是一個關鍵者所以本席再請教您既然支持這個方向本席也有提案很多的委員也有提案那請教行政院會提案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9991.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10004.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
因為你這個版如果沒有改你其他的開放台度都沒有辦法落實只要大院通過的大院通過的我們當然可以尊重啊你會執行嗎行政院版會提出嗎這個跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10010.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10038.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那是環境部的事情 不是經濟部的事情所以本席問你啊 行政院本啊我是經濟部長你是經濟部長 當然你要參與其中你不要用事為理由來對不對 你要參與其中去了解啊這個是政府橫向組織非常重要所以您剛才回答一句話 也就是說如果立法院通過 你會遵循之我依法依規 我一定要遵循好 謝謝 我們一起加油好 謝謝 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10041.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10064.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
好 謝謝現在請何新淳委員做詢答何新淳委員何新淳委員不在現在請黃國昌委員做詢答謝謝主席 是嗎 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10074.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10100.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
委員好部長好針對台灣民眾黨立法院黨團所提出來核三演繹的公投你日前在接受媒體訪問的時候你說這很簡單只要修法不需要公投我相信那個直播應該有忠實傳達部長的意思那不過我還想再確定一下第一個是所以部長你的意思是只要修法通過行政部門會執行核三的演繹嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10101.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10118.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我的意思是你只要通過這個法是然後呢我在這個法的框架之下是我應該執行的任務是我不會這個退卻所以你還是沒有回答我的問題法修過只是幫你們研議除去法規上面的障礙嗎這個是確定的事情但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10119.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10135.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
立法者可以幫你們除去法規上的障礙障礙除去掉以後要不要核三研議這件事情權力還是在行政部門手上那為了慎重起見所以我才請教部長您的意思是只要法修正通過了以後行政部門會推動核三研議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10136.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10160.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
報告委員我想是這個樣子這個法通過了那經濟部是不是可以獨立來執行這個法我想我經濟部可能沒有那麼大的這個權限沒關係你就代表經濟部發言就好了我代表經濟部我是經濟部長我當然是代表經濟部發言所以我一定是行政院這個是行政院的這個職責行政院有要求我們執行的時候我們一定會執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10163.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10176.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
好那現在下一個問題公投通過了以後你覺得行政院要不要執行這個公投通過了以後行政院要不要執行行政院會有判斷行政院會判斷依法行政院可以判斷嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10178.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10200.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
依法行政院可以判斷嗎公投通過了以後行政院還有判斷餘地嗎行政院還可以自己判斷說人民公投的結果出來了以後行政院還可以自己判斷要不要執行公投的結果行政院有這個權利嗎我不是行政院長所以我也不知道其實你不需要是行政院院長就可以知道因為公民投票法裡面上面已經規範得非常清楚了嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10201.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10212.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
公民投票法規範有關於重大政策公投通過了以後就應該由總統或權責機關來實現嘛那否則的話我們公民投票法是定好玩的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10213.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10241.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以從這個觀點上面來講我們立法院幫你們除去法規上面的障礙行政院要不要往前再慢一步這件事情你說你是經濟部長沒有辦法代表行政院院長發言這個我尊重但問題是我要提醒的是什麼我要提醒的是依照公民投票法的規定這種重大政策的公民投票通過了以後總統或行政權責機關就要執行這個是法律明確的規定這是法律明確的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10242.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10271.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
到時候行政部門就沒有選擇餘地了當然當然嘛我們同意啊那如果是這個樣子的話你覺得這公投有沒有意義還是沒意義嗎這公投意義非常的大啊公投通過行政部門就要執行啊跟單純的立法部門除去掉法規範的障礙以後行政院要不要執行行政院還可以做決定兩個法律狀態完全不一樣啊我有說錯嗎這法律的部分我已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10272.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10300.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我尊重那個委員你的這個好 沒有關係第二個部分我上次請教卓榮泰說2025再生人員達到20%大概這個是確定跳票了啦現在賴清德總統他希望能夠達成的目標是2026年年底以前再生人員達到20%嘛這在媒體上面講了非常多次了我去年請教卓榮泰的時候目標啦 大家都會喊 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10301.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10324.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
目標大家都會喊怎麼樣達到那個目標的路徑才是重要的事情但很遺憾可能是卓榮他去年剛上台我問他這個問題的時候他一問三不知我事後也給行政院包括經濟部補交作業的機會來我先請教一下部長2024年年底我們再生能源的占比達到了百分之多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10329.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10358.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
去年是11.5去年是11.5嘛其實具體的數字應該是11.6啦我為什麼敢這樣講來我秀給部長看因為呢這個是行政院的施政報告在今年到立法院來的施政報告他講的是11.6我相信施政報告上面寫的數字是正確的啦但是去年年底的時候你是不是知道經濟部所提給我的報告到2024年的時候你們的預估是達到百分之多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10360.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10382.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
這上面寫12.312.3所以從今年行政院院長所提出來的報告到去年你們年底的時候所給我的預估清楚的看得出來我們再生能源占比整個進度是落後的本來你們預估是12.3結果實際上面只有11.6現實上面的狀況是這個樣子好來蔡英文她在 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10388.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10399.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
之前2025再生人員20票票了嘛那現在賴清德心喊的是再生人員2026會達到20%達得到嗎我們在努力在努力嘛你們經濟部給我的報告預估是達到多少你知道嗎這白紙黑字啊這個都有經濟部給我的資料啊上面寫上面寫18.9啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10416.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10434.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
上面寫18.9所以連你們經濟部的報告我分兩個層次講第一個經濟部的報告事實上你們的預測跟實際的進度比起來你們的預測已經過度樂觀了第二個我即使按照你們自己所提出來的預測到2026年年底一樣不會達到20%對不對是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10440.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10453.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我們現在在努力嘛現在在努力嘛那針對有關於2026要達標的這件事情經濟部現在有鑒於過去的評估已經失準了嗎現在還有沒有在做新的評估出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10454.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10483.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我們從各個太陽能、離岸風險、地熱、小水利全部把它加起來然後我們現在重新的訂目標重新去整合我們管理的模式改變希望2026年能達到2028年包括你那個管理的模式最新的數據出來了嗎因為從你去年11月給我的數據到今天的角度上面來看就完全失準了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10484.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10498.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那你剛剛有講你們重新有管理模式重新訂目標全部都要加起來非常的好這些新的數據新的預估可以提供嗎我們來做這個報告給你可以嗎好謝謝謝謝我們現在請羅廷瑞委員做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10517.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10544.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
好 謝謝趙偉有請部長郭部長有嗎好 部長我們看一下照片部長你知道今天氣候先鋒者發起人楊家法也是台電員工帶著台電員工將近百位在經濟部剛剛抗議您知道這件事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10547.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10552.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
這個我有收到報告那您知道他們的訴求嗎我今天早上還沒有到經濟部那您知道他們的訴求嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10554.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10581.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
知道他們的訴求嗎不清楚好第一個他們都認為現階段台電並沒有公開透明並沒有負起責任並且相關的政策是大量的虧錢他其中就舉到一個人事開銷你們說一年遵截了4億但是錯誤的能源政策4天就燒掉了9億 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10583.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10598.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
部長他們今天所有人的訴求在經濟部在你的經濟部面前在這邊抗議你有沒有要回應一下報告委員我想這個一個團體裡面我們台電大概有3萬個員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10600.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10628.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
那他一百多個人是不是都是我們台電的我也不太清楚我剛剛有特別確認他跟我講他今天同仁至少至少一百位是台電的同仁不是路人嘉義秉丁但是你要跟我講三萬個人然後只有一百個人到現場他是少數的意思嗎那難道我們所有的其他的公民團體抗議他就不能夠代表他們一定的聲音嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10629.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10645.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
他是不是代表一定的聲音或者是他只是自己個人的聲音我不太清楚一百個員工就是一股力量一股聲音嘛那我今天就是說他們的訴求我們的員工有三萬人但是你不能說你有三萬人他就是少數所以他的聲音不重要是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10646.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10658.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我不是說他不重要不重要是你說的所以你不需要跟我講你台電員工有沒有三萬人今天重點是有一群台電的員工他們願意站出來願意表達他們的心聲他們是現職的員工但是他們不為這些強勢他們願意站出來我想問你的是你願不願意回應他們嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10669.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10694.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
回應什麼啊 我不知道他在問訴求什麼對不起 我剛剛跟你講的時候你在旁邊跟人家聊天啊第一 他說你們說整節開銷將人事資料他們的所謂的人事開銷一年省了4億但是錯誤的能源政策四天燒掉9億他是台電人 他看不下去整個錯誤的能源政策讓台電面臨巨大的虧損您怎麼回應 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10698.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10705.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那你覺得台電是賺錢喔?台電賺大錢喔?那如果台電是賺大錢,現在還需要虧本嗎?你認為是他講的,這是道德網的虧損嗎?所以你認為是賺錢?沒有沒有說他是賺錢,但是你認為他是虧損喔?這是他們目前講出來的數據您到現在只是要跟我在那邊鬥嘴,沒有意義啊我說他現在提出的數據,您可不可以回應? |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10723.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10733.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
您認為呢我不知道要回應什麼他說虧錢錯誤的能源政策虧錢有很多種原因不能講這個事情是什麼能源政策他是專家嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10735.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10751.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
他是第一線實際在台電上班的員工看不下去啊那請問一下您這樣講那您是專家嗎他看不下去那您是專家嗎不好意思他看不下去您是專家嗎對不對看不下去你講這句話我就要問你現階段你說請他離開你會不會秋後算帳 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10756.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10765.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
這些人為了自己的心聲為了全國百姓的聲音出來你說你請他離開你是不是要秋後算帳這是你講的那你為什麼要請他離開這是你講的你為什麼要在這一個國會電台裡面講說請他離開你要就事實來論述你不能夠隨便亂講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10777.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10781.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
今天我是轉述這些團體他們的生意你現在就是覺得他們人數少看不起他們嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10792.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10814.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
你知道我們一年有多少營業額嗎你都不就我剛剛問的問題來回答第一我說他們的心聲是這樣你願不願意回答你一下說他是專家嗎你一下說他是1.3%的人你現階段你又在剛剛回答說那他可以離開啊所以我要問的第二個問題你現在會不會秋後算帳這些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10815.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10839.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我為什麼要邱鶴擅長因為看起來你剛剛態度就是很強硬所以你被請他們離開啊看我的態度跟我看你的態度也都差不多吧那你怎麼可以在國會電台這邊請人家離開國會議員 郭部長我們現在不要動氣好不好是你在講的嘛我們調回剛剛的事實嘛你剛剛說他不高興他可以離開啊他當然啦 我們沒有要求他說你這個不可以離開啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10841.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10858.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
你這種態度就是漠視這些發聲的人嘛那要怎麼講呢 對不對我就希望你就是事實回答他今天在經濟部的地上陳情書剛剛我也講了這些實際他們所發言的東西而且台電 他如果對台電不滿報告委員 報告委員他如果對台電不滿 他可以到台電去 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10868.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10895.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
經濟部是主管機關啦經濟部整個能源政策是主管機關你不要推給台電那我請教你就你說的話嘛國內約有84%的電力將轉由火力發電這是事實吧沒有錯是81%轉成84%那我想請問一下晚上沒有太陽無風無雨那請問一下晚上火力發電回達到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10897.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10898.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
會不會將近一百沒有太陽能啊無風無雨啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10908.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10928.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
你這個假設情況的機率非常的小好我跟你講我們還有地熱還有水力我當然知道所以我說將近一百嘛我剛剛是說將近一百我沒有跟你講說是百分百嘛你這樣講的是你不是這個意思嗎那我問你嘛晚上無風無雨或者是沒有太陽晚上一定沒有太陽吧是84%嗎是84%火力發電嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10933.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10948.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
多少我要看數字一定會增加對不對一定會增加對不對好 報告委員就我們的這個資料顯示就是87%是全年的平均全年的平均 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10949.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10971.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
你用全年的平均來跟我回答好我們現階段要跟大家講的是台中市是最痛苦的一手拿著我們的稅金去所謂的撥補一手漲著我們的電價再來火力發電都在台中最大宗現階段燃氣機組準備要上線 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10972.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10997.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
你藍莓機組不願意換王美花說願意 之前願意的承諾的條件那請問一下 郭部長 換到你王美花說的還算不算數藍棲機組換藍莓機組我們本來就是藍棲機組換藍莓機組但你還有沒有備而不用嘛備而不用 這個是另外一個安全上面的考量嘛會有這樣的安全考量就是因為我們缺電嘛就是電不夠多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10998.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11021.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
所以基本上你就是希望當整個緊急有問題的時候甚至有這些問題產生的時候你們所謂的跳電然後就要產生我們的機器來使用啊報告委員安全不是說電力不夠叫做安全有一些國防的issue也叫做安全那我要講的是中部地區啊也包含彰化我們在火力發電抗議的時候彰化 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11024.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11039.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
王縣長也來到現場中部地區的空污實在是非常嚴重所以我們希望經濟部真的要檢討現在的能源政策並且我希望這些員工他們發聲雖然是少數我尊重你的說法但是我們一定要尊重他們的聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11040.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11066.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
並且能夠保障他們的工作權我們一定尊重少數我沒有講說不尊重少數喔我們當然是尊重少數我只是說他是自由的他可以表達他的意思這樣很好但是您剛剛不要提到說他不高興他可以離開那您感覺就是說你不要來做啊你不要隨便定義我的話你不要講這樣的話啦保障這些人的工作權我的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11067.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11092.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我自己定義 你不要隨便定義我的話你講出來了 你就接受可受公平嗎我當然接受 但是我講的是我定義 不是你定義這些我就不再跟你再多做了 因為趙委一直在說時間到了 不好意思喔 謝謝現在請蘇清泉委員做詢答蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11097.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11124.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
登记发言委员除不在场外其余均已发言完毕询答结束委员林黛华所提书面质询列入记录刊登公报书面质询和未及答复部分请相关单位于一周内以书面答复并复制本会进行审查再生能源发展条例第13条条文修正草案现在进行广泛讨论 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11127.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11137.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
廣泛討論無人登記發言請議事人員宣讀所有條文若有修正動議及附帶決議請一併宣讀宣讀完畢後再進行協商請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11143.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11155.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
再生能源發展條例委員魯明哲等19人提案第13條除第一項第三款修正為符合環境部相關標準之一般廢棄物或事業廢棄物經處理後製造為燃料者 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11158.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11180.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
第三項墨具修正為由中央主管機關會同農業部定之其餘同線型條文委員先奉等17人提案第13條除第三項墨具修正為由中央主管機關會同農業部定之其餘同線型條文委員楊瓊英等人所提再生能源發展條例第13條修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11181.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11195.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
除第三項墨具修正為油裝主管機關會同農業部定之其餘同性型條文宣讀完畢現在進行協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11203.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11222.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好請賴銳榮委員做發言好這個修正其實應該大致上大家應該沒有什麼太大的不同意見那我只是建議像那個魯民政委員提的這個部分因為符合環境部的相關標準那一般像這樣的文字其實是可以考慮放在立法說明裡面就是說其實並不影響到他整個這樣會讓整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11223.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11241.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
法條文字比較簡單一點 比如說太陽能 熱能利用生殖能的燃料 一般廢棄物 磁石業廢棄物處理以後的製造為燃料者這樣文字上看起來會單純一點啦 也比較我認為這樣如果放在立法聰明是比較好的一個選擇 好 看看各位委員的看法好 那請問楊瓊瑛委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11244.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11249.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
是不是對於剛才賴瑞榮委員所提議的那以上委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11273.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11299.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
好 謝謝行政部門沒有 同意放在這個現行條文的說明裡面就可以好 那楊崇英委員好 那就放說明好嗎那我們就把魯明哲委員第三條符合環境部相關規定之這個放在那個立法說明裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11304.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11322.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
其他就照案通過 那就按照謝依鳳委員等17人提案通過 可以嗎 可以 好好 修正動議也會通過 就是按照這個版本 好不好好 謝依鳳跟楊瓊瑩委員的 對 楊瓊瑩委員好 你修正動議 好 請宣讀協商結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11330.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11331.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
請問各位同仁照宣讀協商結論通過有沒有意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11350.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11372.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
好那無異議通過討論事項鎖列再生能源發展條例第13條修正條案審查完略拟據審查報告提報院會討論請問需不需要交由黨團協商不用不用好那就不需交由黨團協商本日議程處理完畢現在散會好謝謝 |