| IVOD_ID |
166347 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166347 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-22-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-11T09:31:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-11T09:44:07+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/83ea75f4c686a7b11e29fa2f76958e11b5fe7457644078f0b7d004183700ea53332e030545e112f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
萬美玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:31:59 - 09:44:07 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
【12月10日及11日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 谢谢主席我们有请陈主委主委请好 主委早委员长我们经济部在11月27号核定了核电厂现况的一个评估报告其中我们看到核一厂因为重要的设备都已经拆除了所以经过评估不再具有运转可行性但是核二核三厂都评估具有 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
54.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
再运转的可行性而且要启动自主安全检查那么台电呢也计划在明年的3月要提出核二核三厂的再运转计划那我们看到龚明新部长说核三厂最快在2028年的时候就会开始重启那朱友想请教您行政院或者是经济部他是有找核安会来讨论核电厂再运转的相关议题吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
81.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
没有没有喔那如果没有找你们讨论那我们这个龚部长去表示核三厂最快2028年初就可以拿到核安会核发的再运转执照那他这样子的说法这个底气从哪里来这个应该问部长吧那你同意他的这个说法吗我只能这么说了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
83.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
99.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
國安會當然會依據職責嚴格審查時程上我很難給一個很確定的時程好 所以您這裡其實很難給這個時程但是廣布黨自己就說了2028那當然您是不知情的是這樣講嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
121.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
当然如果要有很多条件之下是有可能的没关系所以他这样的说法是没有跟你沟通过的好那待会我们来看今年五月的时候卓院长说我们相关的安全检查的一个程序最少需要差不多三年半的时间但是巩部长又说了他说按照国际惯例 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
122.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
140.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
要去順利審查的時間是一年到一年半能完成那我想要請教一下主委那我想短短的這個半年期間安全檢查的這個時間相差這麼多那兩個人講一個講三年半一個講說一年到一年半那不曉得站在河岸會立場來看誰講的才是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
155.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我剛剛跟委員報告過有影響師生有很多因素包括台電的準備資料台電對我們的問題的回復速度以及我們現場觀測結果過去的保養狀態所以他們兩個講的誰講的是更接近正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
186.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我現在還沒有做過評估你還沒有評估那個院長都已經講說三年半然後部長又講一個一年到一年半那你都不去了解一下說他們當中哪一個人講的其實可能有誤那你可能要去就是指點他們一下或提出一下問題點我想這也是您的責任嘛你怎麼可以說他們講的東西你還沒有了解喔我覺得這樣不好喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
210.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以是不是可以請主委會後下去以後你去了解看看到底誰講的是對的為什麼這時間差距這麼久這麼大這個差距其實是大的那你看其實如果按照經濟部的一個說法如果明年最快明年3月台電就會送了再運轉計畫給核安會來審查 審核那主委想請教一下那您剛剛說了就說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
234.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
中間的變數跟可能的條件因素非常的多對不對那核安會有沒有去了解到底在國際上我們去做相關審查的程序要注意的事項或者制定的相關流程這個核安會都有去了解嗎有 我有請高署長對他們沒有關係有去了解嗎是不是有那我順便能不能補充一下剛才委員所提到一年半這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.031 |
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242.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那按照經濟部所講的是台電公司自行自主安全檢查所需要的時間大概一年半到兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
242.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那之後還要送到核安委來進行審查跟現場確認那這部分的時間我想您先幫他補充說明啦他自己並沒有講那麼詳細啦他講的就是說按照國際慣例順利審查時就是一年到一年半啦所以應該要這樣講啦就是說您看到不管院長或部長他們的說法有未盡之處或者錯誤之處其實應該要提出提點好不好以上我就是跟你做一個提醒喔好再來我們再來看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
292.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
核二厂我想据了解核二厂这个室外干室储存预计明年第一季就能够完成而且也已经在今年9月26号向核安会提出试运转的一个计划我想请教一下主委目前核二厂的室外干室储存设施运转计划的审查进度可不可以简单说明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
321.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有沒有預計什麼時候會審查完畢報告委員如果台電公司能夠順利就是對我們的議題做理性的話我們有望在今年的明年的2月能夠完成這個試運轉計畫的審查好就是說你預估是在明年2月但台電如果他的速度更快一點可能也會往前提意思是說看台電他送上來的這個過程是嗎我們有一百多項的意見給台電公司所以台電公司我了解我了解好那我認為啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
341.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
其实不管是核二或是核三场的重启其实我想都会有部分的民众他是有疑虑的所以核安会其实你作为一个审查的主管机关我认为也要去跟我们的民众说明相关的进度这个安全性等等所以这些跟民众的沟通相关的计划我们有没有在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
343.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
有沒有在做跟委員說明只要台電公司提出申請的時候會裡面會按照以往的做法會辦地方說明會好啦 所以其實你們跟台電橫向的這個往來其實也要更細緻更平凡一點啦好 那我再請教一下那我們看到環境部這個彭啟明部長昨天在受訪的時候也說依照現行的法規核電廠再運轉不需要環評但環境部站在督促的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
382.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他會確保審查納入環境相關的考量我想請教一下主委我們環境部是二級機關 核安會是三級獨立機關但彭部長說他要督促核安會您認為恰當嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
384.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
409.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我覺得他意見我們是覺得沒什麼問題啊所以可以接受他的督促我們平常就有密切溝通溝通跟接受他的督促層級上是不太一樣的我想跟主委講一下其實您應該也知道啦所以到目前為止我請教一下環境部有沒有針對核電廠重啟找核安會來討論呢你們討論過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
413.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
441.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
没有正式的讨论那有私下聊天不过我们会议跟环境部是有来往好然后我想请提问给我补充一下核安会是核能对于针对没关系那个主委不用了我想再请教一下如果彭部长他希望核安会在审查核电厂再运转计划的时候纳入环平的考量主委认为有没有这个必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
442.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
456.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
實際上已經納入了服務社對環境的影響評估本身就是核安會職責核安會這方面會負責全部責任至於其他的因素呢我們會跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
458.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我认为啦我想和安会它是一个独立的机关我们跟其他的相关的部会假设有任何有关联的议题我们多往来多研究是好的但是因为我们是独立的机关我想主委这个要确保我们不要受到其他的干扰好再来呢要跟你请教一个题目这个我请一下主席我请一下那个国务院院的高子牧院长有在现场好时间关系我就直接发问好 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
508.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們看到去年底多達2.4萬公升的柴油流入石門大峻農灌系統導致周邊1.2萬平方公尺土地被匡列為污染控制場址我想請教一下院長2.4萬公升的柴油流入周遭的土壤跟農灌的系統這等於一輛滿載的油罐車的油 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
510.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
521.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
如此龐大的油量整車漏光光國園院確實等到環保局通知才發現院長我想請教一下國園院這樣的後知後覺監控上出了什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
524.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
包委員我們在去年年底12月29號就有嚴密的配合環保局的調查那在1月2號我就親自沒有 總是不是你們發現的嘛對不對不是我們發現的是沒錯好油為什麼漏這麼久它因為地下是暗管暗管有街頭鬆脫結果就一直漏漏油整個禮拜院長你對啦你現在你也有跟我一個報告說漏油的原因是輸油管連接的法件鬆脫嘛是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
556.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
572.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
館長你這個回答其實我聽了更是心驚膽顫如果就只是一個罰件鬆脫如此嚴重的漏油如此量大的漏油那麼在本席看來這鬆脫了不只是罰件而已這可能是有人員的訓練管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
573.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
600.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
相關的鬆脫才嚴重啦所以經過這件事之後本席想要問一下國研院針對有污染風險設備操作的教育訓練跟SOP的流程等等有提出了什麼樣嚴格的規範了嗎報告委員 我們在這事故以後針對一公平以上的油槽通通要有液位偵視器還有錄影機監控它的液位在它漏油的第一時間 液位正常24小時有同人值班 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
600.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
629.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
去觀察大概有12口這樣的油槽就只要監測到有異常優惠就要回報不會讓它漏了一個禮拜有SOP了以後落實是很重要最後這個事件桃園市環保局開罰了這個84萬對不對但是國務院院針對被污染的土壤及水源還要進行相關的整治跟復原的工作那請問院長你有沒有去計算這次的漏油事件整個國務院院要花了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
630.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
646.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
報告委員今年預計會花五千七百萬那明年大概兩千一百萬最近的兩年那等整治有確定的成果你想想看我覺得真的很離譜耶將近八千萬的預算經費你這是全民買單你的錯誤耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
648.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
662.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這算不算全民買單你的錯誤是 所以我們在事件發生了以後有懲處相關的化工組組長化工組的所長化工所所長跟護所長因為都是檢認被懲處以後我們報到監察院監察院有發函來調查過兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
666.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
683.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我覺得一個結論啊 你知道嗎 你們的一個人為書師啊我覺得8000萬夠不夠 我都還不知道 全民買單這樣的預算是一個嚴重重大的浪費那第二個呢 相關的土壤可能有污染 水源可能有的污染我覺得你都沒有辦法做百分之百保證我覺得這一連串 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
685.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
710.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這不是一個小小的說是疏失改善SOP就能做的事情我覺得針對這一件事情啊我希望這個院長會後啊給本席辦公室啊一個仔仔細細的報告包括事件發生的原因現在SOP還有未來你怎麼去落實SOP還有你的懲處還有未來這個預算上面你花到哪裡去了給我整套的計畫可以嗎可以多久的時間兩個禮拜以內 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
713.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
726.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
两个礼拜以内好那就十天可以吗好谢谢好谢谢万美林委员质询那官员请回座现在请葛如君委员质询 |