| IVOD_ID |
166346 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166346 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-11T09:24:33+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-11T09:37:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/83ea75f4c686a7b108195b7eba3327a2feb4e86bf6119d12b7d004183700ea53632dec9194285a125ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:24:33 - 09:37:05 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請法務部、審計部、行政院主計總處等就「八百萬助理費變成小金庫，立法院組織法恐成自肥法案？」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查委員許智傑等23人擬具「立法院公費助理任用法草案」案。） |
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來 謝謝主席麻煩有請法務部法治司司長審計部副審計長以及立法院的副秘書長來 請機關代表三位好 時間的關係不宜問候透過法律的修法為個案解套或免除刑事責任 |
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32.833 |
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在我國憲政史上最有名的是2013年5月31號會計法的修正那次的修正在院會裡面沒有經過任何討論四個黨團的黨鞭在一場後面的小會議室簽了黨團協商結論5月31號夜黑風高三讀通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.193 |
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結果引發社會軒然大波當時馬英九總統出面道歉民主進步黨黨主席蘇貞昌出面道歉江一樺提出復議立法院不經過邀請行政院院長直接復議通過推翻原決議我想這在憲政史上史蹟斑斑 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
89.585 |
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那一次整個公民社會也上了一課再一次針對有關於國會助理費的法制化開始出現了這樣的法制化 制度化是不是在幫個案修法解套的質疑這樣的質疑當然有討論的必要 |
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公費公用公費公用剛剛法務部說得非常的好這是一個沒有辦法退的底線同時如果就跟自己職權相關的到下一屆才開始適用在憲政上面也是一個合一的作為但我現在看不懂我為什麼看不懂我離開立法院2020年離開 |
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143.086 |
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我最關心的一件事情是國務機要費修法的處罪化那時候我回到公民社會作為一個公民我眼睜睜的看著立法院在2022年為個案推動修法我看了今天法務部的書面報告寫的是直立有聲當年法務部對於這件事情卻是勁若寒蟬 |
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當年的法務部當年是怎麼講的對於國務機要費將來是否修法除罪化本部尊重主管機關及大院職權這是當年 |
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這是當年國務紀要費修法的時候法務部所表達的見解今天只有司長來我其實不想為難司長因為內容寫成這個樣子一定是當初部長的指示一定是當初部長的指示我只希望法務部回去看一看你們今天在書面文字上面所表達的態度跟當年所表達的態度標準一致嗎 |
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市長如果不便回答就說不便回答我說了我不會為難你這一定是部長的決定當年這樣的法務部靜若寒蟬法務部有什麼想說的嗎 |
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229.291 |
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我想法務部這邊來講都是基於各部會分工來講的話都是尊重主管機關以及立法院的一個職權行使我想這樣的立場今天也沒有改變但是當然針對這件事情來講應該認真的去探究他在整個法評架上頭的意義意涵沒關係啊 說到這個地方我覺得也夠了我不為難你接下來請立法院 |
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當初啦 在這個修法的過程當中啊因為爭議很大嘛所以啊 國務及要費的除罪化我們來回顧一下當年立法的討論一片空白第一個在委員會報告詢答的時候民主進步黨提案停止詢答沒有詢答在委員會大體討論的時候沒有大體討論 |
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在委員會逐條討論的時候 民進黨提案停止討論全案保留送院會 9點開會 9點14分上會在委員會一片空白黨團協商的時候 也沒有進行黨團協商召開黨團協商 人沒有到齊嘛人沒有到齊 就送院會處理 |
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上院會的時候沒有經過廣泛討論也沒有經過逐條討論會計法99條之一國務計要費的除罪化立法討論一片空白從委員會到黨團協商到院會沒有討論完全不用討論完全不用討論不是沒有討論沒有民主嗎還是特定的案件 |
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只要符合民進黨的利益不用討論 為什麼要討論除罪話除罪話沒有討論啊立法討論一片空白民進黨狹人數優勢國務紀要費正式除罪話這不是我講的這個是新聞媒體下的標 |
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這是新聞媒體下的標過去的這段歷史我們來看看對現在立法院的運作對現在立法院的運作過去黨團協商黨團協商有委員會召集協商的時候人沒有到齊或沒有共識2016年5月3號蘇嘉全就宣告發出協商會議通知而黨團未出席會議及 |
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未達成共識一個月內只要發過一次通知無協商共識及無法達成共識所以怎麼樣所以那個時候在主持院會的蔡啟昌才宣告報告院會協商已於一個月無法達成共識依照立法院職權刑事法71條之一的規定有院會定期處理所以我要再確認一下在我們的立法院 |
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422.46 |
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448.768 |
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針對立法院職權刑事法的解釋也好議事的先例也好委員會有召集協商沒有辦法達成共識本來就可以送院會處理我從過去到現在我的一直理解是如此我看議事先例也是如此但是最近好像開始又變了是不經過院長協商不能處理如果不經過院長協商要處理的話就要打架就要杯葛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
450.053 |
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這個是我們的議事規則嗎來麻煩請副秘書長幫大家示意一下謝謝委員那相關的議事規則我想都非常有明文規定啦那至於說怎麼樣子的會議程序基於國會治理原則我想尊重委員的一個行使方式 |
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469.844 |
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OK 你也是回答得很藝術不要進入比較深水區黨派跟黨派彼此之間黨團跟黨團彼此之間不同的看法我尊重但是我想藉由這個機會把意識的潛力把它說明清楚也有助於國人瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
489.451 |
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508.865 |
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也有助於國人了解 本來就是嘛那交協商 委員會開了協商沒有辦法達成共識 就送院會處理啊如果非要院長協商不可的話 那知識體大那院長如果沒有時間 公務繁忙那整個法案不就塞車了嗎來 接下來有請那個副審計長委員好副審計長好 有一個案子啊 我非常的關切 |
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519.082 |
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544.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這已經是違法濫權貪污腐敗 莫此為勝我們速發部全額補助大同醫護取得資安院的標案違法履約驗收不實之前我在交通委員會質詢資安院的院長質詢速發部的部長莫名其妙拿舊的東西來結果可以出假的新品證明書 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
547.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
573.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
拿中國製的網通產品結果可以驗收通過驗收不實從頭到尾包庇放水想要蒙混過關這件事情我總共執行了三次我總共執行了三次事情非常的嚴重但是我是不知道我們的訴發部跟資安院是官官相護 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
574.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
591.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
彼此包庇上下交鄉賊混了半天內部還在討論到底要怎麼處理最近好像有一些結果快要出來了但我要真正認真的問是說他們也知道審計部在這件事情做了審計 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
593.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
601.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那審計他們回覆目前審計部是他們有照實回覆還是想要用混的因為我還沒有機會問審計部這個問題啊藉由今天質詢的機會麻煩副審計長跟大家說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
608.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
623.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個案子我們實際在查核的時候有發現就是資安院他沒有落實履約管理所以才有剛剛委員所提到的就是有廠商用不實或不符契約的設備來履約 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
624.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
650.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那另外有廠商繳交的不實文件而且那個也超於這個原來契約規定的這個時間而且沒有依照規定檢討來刊登政府財務公報那目前我們已經要求他來做相關的什麼時候要求的我們大概詳細的時間應該蠻早的因為我們原來委員在質詢的時候我們就已經有列管這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
650.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
670.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
列管到什麼時候我現在雞皮皮啊我質詢完開完記者會洪祈昌開記者會所以我指控不實啊我聽的是完全聽不懂啊完全聽不懂啊我講的連訴發部都承認連資安院都承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
671.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
698.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
然後還厚著臉皮 發 說我指控不實那今天審計部在這邊 按照審計調查的結果又再次的印證就是拿不實的東西來混嘛納稅人的錢 納稅人的錢拿不實的東西來混結果我們的訴發部 我們的治安院啊混到現在不曉得包庇到什麼時候啊 拜託審計部好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
701.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
727.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這件事情一定要追到底啊 審計部列管到什麼時候跟委員報告就是最近我們在10月1號的時候我們有特別另外在函請這個治安院要檢討改善並且要查處相關人員的他回復了沒有 委司責任那數化部在那個12月他有申復啦目前他採取 申復喔不服喔覺得他做得很對喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
728.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
750.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
跟委員報告 目前速發部的答覆是啟動採購法廠商停權跟治安院人員的責任檢討那這個目前至於有一些部分涉及廠商有刑責的部分他也已給調查單位在偵辦中那個速發部回來給你們的方面提供給我嗎我們可以整理一下文件跟委員書面報告好 謝謝謝謝委員 |