| IVOD_ID |
166339 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166339 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-10T10:23:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-10T10:36:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a128e1119a2c25c0302b2bd1d162f8cb9ecb9f93c172c551a16ad5de198b7201f93f94a140fc3cab5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李彥秀 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:23:41 - 10:36:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「財政收支劃分法」7案：（僅詢答）
(一) 本院委員郭國文等17人、委員賴瑞隆等19人、委員賴瑞隆等17人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等3案。
(二) 本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 本院委員邱議瑩等26人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
(四) 本院委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一及第三十條條文修正草案」案。
(五) 本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例」2案：（僅詢答）
(一)本院委員郭國文等18人擬具「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例第四條條文修正草案」案。
(二)本院委員李坤城等18人擬具「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例第四條及第五條條文修正草案」案。
【12月10日及11日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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我可不可以邀請部長以及主席總處副主席長好 有請部長副主席長部長副主席長才化法走到今天我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
57.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
應該要有更多的對話而不是只留於喊話公務人員更應該依法行政去處理事情當然我昨天有看到我們院長在媒體上說沒有什麼不能談的包括前面的軍人的加薪也好或者是針對於才化法也好或者是公教人員其他幾個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
沒有什麼不能談的只要總預算趕快審只要我們的任性條例我們的軍購1.25的條例趕快審沒有什麼不能談的這句話你覺得有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
85.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
部長 有沒有問題我想委員 財化法是一個非常重要的一個財政的基本的法律那院版已經提出來送大院審議你不敢評論院長講的話部長沒關係 每一個法案都很重要但是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
97.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你不用跟我吵架但是我要提醒無論才化法無論是軍人加薪無論總預算無論是軍購的預算我覺得都應該好好討論每一個法案都很重要但是你們民進黨的主席也好總統也好 總統太也好過去常說我們對話不能有前提跟條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
136.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
沒有一個法案是私底下可以拿來交換後面給我 前面都好談立法院是監督的角色不管哪一個政黨都是一樣這是我要提醒的我覺得應該有更多良性的對話我們財化法走到今天我剛剛一直強調依法行政很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
141.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
165.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
今天我看到的就是比較遺憾的是對於院長來說他可以丟一句話就是我不願意或者是我要設前提但是你是公務人員你們底下都是公務人員更部長你現在算是政務官你是公務員上來的之前我們在處理進法補償條例的時候很多我原住民的好朋友就跟我講說好啊如果不編的話總統也 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
166.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
191.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
行政院應該走的權利就是他也不釋憲然後也沒有服務也不釋憲那你又不編的話後面原住民可以去告原委會這個就是所謂的違法扣留的苛扣罪我想法令你應該很清楚依法三讀通過的法案行政院如果沒有疑慮既不走服務也沒有釋憲那就依法應該要照理編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
196.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
212.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
今天當然你們有在走相關的程序但是副主席長部長你們是公務人員上來的我要提醒你們如果拒絕相關的法條或者你們現在用你們的很多行政手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
213.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
財化法走到今天你們還不願意去做相關的面對後面的一些相關應該處理的我覺得後面相關的法律追訴還有監察院的彈劾這是我要提醒你們的地方我覺得該怎麼處理就應該怎麼處理今天走到今天不管你們說預算不夠未來可能有舉債流量的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
234.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
249.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
事權 錢下放了給地方事權當然也要下放給地方你們到底針對事權你就只有針對垂直分配水平分配錢的部分該怎麼分公事應該怎麼樣去調整做處理但是事權從來沒有好好去討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
253.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我支持前下放地方事權當然也要做討論哪些事情該少做一點哪些事情應該分配給地方責任多一點我覺得應該好好討論但是我現在看到的都 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
269.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
286.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
變成流於喊話這不是對話這是喊話對於解決事情僵持一點幫助都沒有就是我要提醒部長跟主席長的地方我是不是要補充我們一定會依法行政那跟地方的溝通 市權我們國發會跟主席總處也有找地方來開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
288.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
311.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你開會只有你講你的然後他們有意見你也不好好聽其實之前也是好幾個縣市都縣市的財政局局長主計處都有跟我講他們對於你們調配的公式他們一直反映意見但他們意見你有聽沒有到沒有用這不是開會你們開會的次數都在最後幾次才開會財化法的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
314.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
333.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
從賴市長到賴院長到總統到你們上任到現在去年在野黨就提出說要調整財化法但是你們市權的部分討論了幾次到最後你們覺得不得已你們之前的版本行政院財政部根本不提出自己的版本到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
334.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
341.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在立法院通過之後你們才在急急忙忙找人來開會找人來處理版本我覺得這樣不是一個處理跟委員說明我們的開會一直在進行中而且中央對地方財政的挹注年年升高到114年達到1兆到115年更大1兆1600多億你整個總預算增加你對地方的補助你這個叫做蚊子遊戲 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
361.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
371.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你總預算不斷的膨脹地方那個統籌分配那個分配那個數額越大當然母體數越大當然分配的錢會越多你不要用數字來跟我玩遊戲部長這是我要提醒你不要用文字來糊弄我稅出越多統籌分配的數字比例按照都是按照比例來分配你用這樣來糊弄我就沒有必要了部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
389.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
409.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我想这是一个事实跟委员在这边的说明无论是财政的整个福气的转移也好你那个都有固定的公式这个我很清楚你都有固定的公式你不要说你有分配的越多收入税出越多当然分配的也会越多但是你相对中央的钱也分配的更多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
410.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
431.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為那都是按照公司來走中央統籌分配稅款是按照公式但是一般性補助款和計劃型補助款這個部分一般性的補助款也是有公式計劃性的補助款你有多少錢放在那邊也是公式只是說你愛給誰就給誰我今天不要浪費時間說這個但是我是提醒你們在處理財化法不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
432.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
456.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
不要讓公務人員你們自己是公務人員出來了不要違法這是我要提醒你的你的標準哪些要執行哪些不執行你現在不執行包括一般補助款你不執行你的選擇性的條件是什麼跟我們報告我們一般性補助款目前通知地方政府的我們都會執行如果預算115的預算有通過的話會執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
458.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
485.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你們不是按照我們現在立法院通過的版本主要跟委員說明就是說因為11月14號通過那個版本我們依照預算法8月底預算就要送到立法院然後各地方政委依照地方制度法的期限也都已經送到議會了所以這115年度的預算如果要依照11月14號的版本來回溯是不可能的可以追加預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
488.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
515.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為這個牽動的那個因為它那個金額非常大所以那個沒有因為主要還是另外也違反了公共債務法所以它環環相扣所以我就講說事權要調整沒有什麼不能處理的事權調整後面再追加預算都有解決的方法你們現在只是說這個違反公債法流量的上限來去做處理這我要提沒有什麼不能處理的沒有什麼不能討論處理的事權調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
518.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
539.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
中央少做一點 地方多承擔一點都有解決的方法跟方案好 我這個議題沒有不能處理但是我現在強調的就是說像你剛剛講說因為違反公債法所以你們不處理包括像軍人家包括軍人家三萬塊這沒多少錢啊你們現在也是一樣不處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
541.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
569.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那你們不處理都有各式各樣的理由放在那邊就是追加減預算就是如果辦追加減預算也是會違反公共因為我們已經沒有那個空間去調整所以基於會違法的考慮所以沒有辦法處理所以中央事權少做一點地方多做一點那當然是整塊都一起討論調整你現在只是用一個理由丟在外面就是說我們舉賽會超過上限流量會超過上限那我們還有那麼多事情要做你事權 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
570.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
586.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
跟後面還有追加預算還有其他的還有其他的財政工具可以去處理目前的問題你們現在只是不願意面對這件事不願意面對立法院通過的法案去處理問題這是我要提的我時間達到這邊 我另外一個議題 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
587.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
今年賴總統對外講說今年經濟成長非常高所以我們要減稅我們要減稅的部分除了從納稅除了從所得的部分要去做處理我們每人的基本生活費從過去的21萬去年21萬調到21萬3千 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
611.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
628.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
部長經濟景氣當然很好但是這是一個失溫的經濟成長壽星階級感受不到我想這句話我常常在講部長你也非常清楚零死薪水的他感受不到所以我認為總統這句話在吃 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
632.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
653.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所有民眾的豆腐因為你這個該調的基本的生活費它本來就是有公事在做處理本來就有公事無論今年調整的所得稅或長照其實壽星階級真的是感受不到所以部長我最後一句話要提醒的是共享國家經濟的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
655.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
665.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
如果要去做調整的話應該要有其他的真正的其他的更多的免稅工具讓所有真正白領藍領階級領死薪水的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
667.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
679.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他可以有更多的免稅的一些機會放在裡頭因為總統所講這些免稅和基本生活那個本來就有這些公視在去年是21萬今年調整21萬3千塊這本來就有公視放在那邊不是因為總統因為經濟景氣很好所以我這個公視有調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
688.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
702.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我沒有講錯吧我覺得跟委員報告委員這樣的照顧民生真的是納稅者的基本生活費用本來每一年都有調整的公司放在那邊那不是因為經濟景氣很好所以總統要求你們去做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
703.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
707.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
跟委員報告除了稅之外其實政府在社福支出部分達到27%是我們稅出預算裡面最高的所以政府的財政好的時候我們會透過各種方式去照顧需要照顧的民眾我覺得這個還有我們的教育文化支出也是第二高的這個部分都超過了40%兩者相加 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
726.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
744.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
在我們的總預算裡面是這樣的我今天是拿總統的話要讓所有藍領白領壽星階級還有所有沒有享受到經濟成長的果實這些基礎勞工們感受到政府真正減稅的美意不要拿這些本來應該有的減稅我們要鼓勵企業去給員工們加薪謝謝 我們時間到了謝謝李委員 |