| IVOD_ID |
16633 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16633 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-30T08:30:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-30T14:24:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:53:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd001fad9b8cd413af1097cfa4245e4149f7d7f547ae197440ac07b5aa0c69f7b65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長何淑萍、交通部鐵道局局長楊正君、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司代理董事長伍勝園、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長鄭光遠、中華航空股份有限公司董事長高星潢及國家運輸安全調查委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「近期我國航空、鐵路運營安全事件之檢討與改善及臺鐵票價調整方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:17 - 14:24:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1785.97 |
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1800.054 |
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好 各位官員請坐好 出席委員與主法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1803.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1827.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期交通委員會第八次全體委員會議議事錄時間114年4月24日星期四上午九時四分至下午一時二十五分地點本院紅樓201會議室出席委員洪孟凱等15人列席委員蔓玉珍等15人列席官員數位發展部部長黃燕南等主席許召集委員致解報告四項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1829.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1852.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
討論事項、審查一至十事、直通安全管理法、修正草案本日會議由委員葛如君等說明提案要旨由數位發展部部長黃燕蘭報告後藉由委員黃孟凱等15人提出質詢軍警部長黃燕蘭及相關人員分別予以答覆決議一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員就政軍所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1853.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1873.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
三 委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請數位發展部及相關器官盡數以書面答覆四 討論四項個案均另定其積蓄審查散會宣讀完畢好來現在介紹今天列席的官員我們交通部陳士凱部長我們公運監理師林福山司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1880.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1905.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
行政司韓振華司長陸正道安司黃韻貴司長民安局何淑品局長國道局楊振軍局長台鐵公司代董事長吳聖元董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1908.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1932.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
台灣高鐵公司鄭光炎董事長中華航空公司董事長高興煌董事長國營應安會主任委員林信德還有我們應安會的執行長林佩達 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1935.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1958.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們水路調查組的組長蘇水渡還有鐵道調查組組長吳吉春運輸安全組鄭永安組長好以上來做做介紹那等一下委員我們再補充介紹 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1961.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1985.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好 本日會議進行近期我國航空鐵路營運安全事件之檢討與改善及台鐵票價調整方案的專案報告那現在請列席機關交通部陳部長來進行報告時間控制在15分鐘以內謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1992.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2015.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生今天應邀至貴委委員會報告近期我國航空鐵路營運安全事件之檢討與改善以及台鐵票價調整方案敬請各位委員指教飛航安全為民航發展之核心基礎隨著航空運量逐年回升 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2016.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2045.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
以及氣候變遷對航空運作所帶來的新挑戰我國飛航管理也不斷地在精進本部民航局持續依國際民航組織的標準以及建議以及我國國家民用航空安全計畫強化飛安監理機制並且監督業者落實安全管理系統以及遵循三級監理機制以確保我國的飛航安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2046.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2061.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對於近五個月台鐵吊車作業發生七起的事件以及4月14日高鐵板橋站發生列車未開門及離站的事件引起國人對鐵路安全的關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2062.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2086.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
鐵路行車安全是營運最基本的核心對於每一個事故事件潛藏著不安全的因素都應該要積極督導鐵路機構改進同時也應該要推動各項的安全監理作業務必讓鐵路機構將安全擺在首位消彌各種可能導致事故發生的噪音 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2088.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2106.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
台鐵票價合理化方案已經在今年的3月28日獲得行政院核定預定在6月23日上路實施本次票價調整在考量合理反應營運成本的同時也已經納入民眾可以接受的程度以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2108.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2129.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
與其他運具的競爭性並且兼顧著短程區間票價合理化、中程距競爭性以及長程客源不流失的原則未來台鐵公司將持續推動各項營運安全改善以及提升工作並且致力於提升更好的旅客服務、乘車品質、建立永續經營的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2131.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2157.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
以下我就請高鐵公司 台鐵公司 華航公司分別就近期我國航空鐵路營運安全事件之檢討與改善以及台鐵票價調整方案等議題詳細報告 敬請各位委員指教好 謝謝我們陳部長那我再來補充介紹我們富坤崎總召我們本會富坤崎總召來 把我先追一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2159.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2172.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好 謝謝陳部長那因為民航局跟鐵道局我們就請參閱他們的書面資料那現在我們請台鐵公司的吳聖岩代董事長來進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2183.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2198.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士先生今天非常榮幸來營養道櫃員會來進行專題報告並備詢以下請就進體鐵路營運安全事件的檢討以及改善另外對台鐵票價的調整方案的部分來進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2200.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2224.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第一個首先報告營運安全事件的檢討還有改善第一個我們要完善的營運安全機制台鐵在去年113年1月1號轉型為改革成立公司之後我們在董事會的層級審定年度的安全計畫還有目標值那經安全管理委員會審議由董事會來通過後實施經理部門層級依計畫來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2227.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2243.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
PDCA並設立安全管理推動小組透過SMS安全管理系統還有風險的管理來訂定各個部門的整合型的控制措施那各部門都賦予執行的目標還有KPI作為考核以及管控的依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2245.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2271.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
另外委託外部單位來辦理台鐵公司SMS第三彎評鑑來確保安全管理機制一個落實的執行第二個在推動安全提升方案的部分台鐵公司以五年為一期的五年安全提升計畫提升方案第一期是從113年到117年來擬定降低人員的失誤提升設備的妥善率消除不安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2272.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2295.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
環境完善的組織安全體系4個策略總共23個項目要落實執行並滾動檢討分量來修正那他的公司同時也成立了專案小組每個月定期檢討會議管控進行進度還有成果接著報告近期吊車事故還有停車不當的一個事故的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2297.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2325.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
近五個月內台鐵發生了七件的吊車還有七件司機員停車不當的這樣的一個情況那主要大概都是人為的諸位上的一個疏失缺乏安全的風險意識造成的包括沒有依照SOP規定辦理行車吊車的工作還有沒有確實執行這個指認呼喚這樣的一個確認另外對路線有一些木診腐朽的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2326.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2346.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
目前這個案件都有我們台北公司的運安處在詳查並且配合運安會還有鐵道局的調查在釐清責任之後我們將嚴懲相關的疏失人員並將加強風險管控避免這樣的情況再度發生目前我們辦理情況大概是這樣子第一個針對人員的一個信念 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2349.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2363.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
台鐵公司在第一季員工這個調車的作業啊列車停靠這些的SOP教育啊我們在各地區域進行有包括二市場的調車的作業有關不管是車輛引導 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2364.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2381.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在街連掛、停車聯繫、確認等這些讓同仁更了解SOP的相關規定那後續依據台北公司的行車人員技能體格檢查實施要點來規定落實辦理新進人員的專業訓練在職人員的回信機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2385.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2414.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
讓每一個行車人員都具備有行調公車行調車的這樣的一個工作能力落實執行安全管理系統各項的指引第二個在強化督導考核的部分我們針對吊車作業管理作業除了現在有吊車標準作業程序還有清潛教育檢核表那由值班站長來辦理吊車考核以外令重新訂定吊車作業的督導考核辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2414.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2438.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
來增加各段處各區的安全科以及公司本部在這個吊車吊車廠的作業的考核頻率而且嚴加的管考那考核內容包括有落實吊車的那個勤儉教育還有危害告知而且明確告明確立定變組的車型 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2441.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2463.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
進入路線的一個長度停車再開的地點推進這些的必要的措施那另外前端的時候必須在推進運轉的時候車輛前端需派引導而且考慮是均需以增加不公開的方式來督導吊車作業的辦理情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2465.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2488.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
第二針對停車位置不當的管理方面我們建立了明確的規範還有違規的處理流程包括要求在乘務中不得分心使用手機電子產品另外對於加強司機員教育協會的考核包括我們從ATP裡面來隨著考核這個評列增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2489.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2509.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
另外透過ATP的曲線記錄來查核高風險的駕駛行為發現有異於平常的駕駛行為的模式就立即來暫停乘務若造勢行車責任造事故則除了依規定加重懲罰以外並且亦已記點累計七點就不得擔任駕駛員 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2512.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2519.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
另外依照車站的這個環境條件我們全面檢討ATP曲線這個停站的速度為 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2522.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2546.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
0來降低車輛停車位置不當的風險另外要來延續推動駕駛室加裝影音安全輔助設備來提升行車的安全另外在加速開放各吊車場的目準我們對針對所有吊車場的倒差辦理特別檢查包括路線的幾何不整 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2548.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2567.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
還有鋼軌的模號 腐朽的木枕有安全儀力的路段優先來更換那針對腐朽這個木枕優先更換為PC枕的倒差我們預計在116年可以全部完成第二個報告 台鐵票價調整的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2568.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2594.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
台北的基本費率從台鐵的基本費率從84年9月16日核定到現在已經30年沒有調整了那這中間物價已經提升了60.3%大幅的提高營運成本而且因為都沒有調整費率啊票箱收入已經難以支應營運成本考量台鐵在113年完成公司化需自負盈虧因此無論從營業成本乃至 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2595.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2619.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
健全公司的這個營業的條件這些因素基本規律確實有檢討必要的空間目前辦理情況台鐵公司研擬的台鐵票價合理方案在3月28日核定我們依據在今年的6月23號來實施那這次的調整方案是以這個76年立法院核定的票價 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2620.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2648.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
費率公視來合理報酬率3到5%的來試算課業部分為了減低對民眾的影響我們採用下限3%來試算課業部分的調幅而且考慮經營的目標市場的競爭我們擬定短程期間的票價合理化中程具有競爭力長程的課員不流失這樣的一個策略我們另外課業部分我們以遞演遞減 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2650.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2664.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
各區間的等級我們每一個員人的公里從1.42元到3.39元來實施調整我們調整完之後的報酬率只有0.36% |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2667.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2681.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第二個貨運的部分以合理報酬率300來計算每年度公里基本匯率是2.54元那經過統計大部分貨主大概都備有自己的貨車大概有87%那這樣我們還享有自備貨車有85折的一個優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2688.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2716.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那這次的票整啊我們是以短程期間票價合理化中程距競爭競爭性長程客源不流失的原則的研議調整方案以及策略TPAS的旅客還有常客續享原政策不受票價影響並實施地延地減的優惠方案配合新車的投入加開直達半直達這樣子的車來提高旅客的搭乘意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2717.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2734.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
來提升台鐵中長程的競爭力以維護原流的長途的一個課源最後結與台鐵公司轉行為公司之後所重安全全力來落實安全改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2735.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2761.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
今年到4月28號我們的行政訴故事件還有異常事件已經較去年同期減少大概有41件但是近期能夠發生7起的吊車停車不當等顯示我們的努力仍然不夠將持續來落實執行安全提升方案以及各方案的改革措施確保行政安全另外依據行政的函示 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2762.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2789.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
台北公司克制研議這個花東居民的優惠的一個措施來減輕花東居民受震災影響並確保營業安全以提升準點率還有旅運服務的品質為優先事項並健全公司的財務體質希望能夠提供旅客民眾更好的乘車的品質還有體驗推動公司的永續經營以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2792.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2811.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 謝謝我們吳聖妍吳董代董事長那我再來補充介紹我們本會委員洪孟楷委員好 現在請高鐵公司的鄭董事長來報告時間原則性在8分鐘以內好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2821.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2844.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生今天非常榮幸應邀到貴委員會來就近期營運安全事件的檢討與改善進行報告將從台灣高鐵的安全管理機制與管理績效等面向來進行說明敬請各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2844.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2868.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
首先為了滿足營運暨營運合約的要求確保日後能夠提供國人高速安全的運輸服務台灣高鐵公司參考歐盟日本等國家的實務經驗與管理指引制定各項安全管理制度來推動台灣高鐵系統的興建 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2869.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2887.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
以符合日後營運與維修所需的可靠度、可用度、可維修性及安全性等RAMS的標準目標後續更制定營運安全計畫作為最高位階的安全管理指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2888.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2910.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
訂定包含安全政策在內的總共12項安全管理要素透過PDCA的一個原則來持續控管監督改善鐵道運輸系統的安全績效近年來更因應111年鐵道行車規則的修訂那再次修訂營運安全計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2919.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2933.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
經過111年的12月6號送交送交通部合併以後那麼在112年的元旦期正式實施到目前為止其次台灣高鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2935.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2960.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
公司安全政策的制定是用Top-down的方式來推動的也就是說以安全作為所有作業的最高指導原則並且從12個面向貫徹在每一個工作的環節透過全員參與的行動力持續以PDCA的管理循環改善優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2961.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2989.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
建構嚴謹的安全管理機制因此 台灣高鐵以築城執行與典檢由button up的方式將作業發現以改善經濟措施築集匯報 凝聚共識以後來修訂程序跟規範以符合安全管理組織的運作我們每天從晨會開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2990.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3016.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
每週的經營管理會議每月的處級安全委員會每季的營運安全委員會以及每半年由總經理親自主持的安全委員會透過綿密的課程管理落實營運安全力求提供國人最好的運輸服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3018.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3031.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
此外高鐵公司也持續針對我們內部進行安全集合由直屬總經理的營運安全室依照年度的集合計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3033.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3054.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
對內部從事運物維修系統研發等單位來執行鐵路營運安全集合集合內容涵蓋各單位的執行情形防台防汛整備場站的安全防護等如果發生了重大異常事件的話我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3057.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3084.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
立即進行事件的調查外也會就改善的事項列管追蹤持續精進另外在每年交通部鐵道局定期與不定期的監理作業下檢視本公司各方面在安全工作方面督導改善精進協助本公司提升營運安全績效與服務品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3086.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3107.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
台灣高鐵公司自通車到現在的營運績效國連皆有目共睹去年我們每日的平均運量已經超過了21萬人次列車的準點率達到99.50的百分比列車平均延誤時間也只有12分鐘12秒鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3111.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3120.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
在列車可靠度每百萬列車營運公里只有0.05列車的故障 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3121.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3142.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
行車路線可用度高達99.97%除此之外去年沒有重大行車事故一般的行車事故有兩件行車異常事件有25件這都比前一年都有顯著的下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3143.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3160.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
全年的行車試駕率為每百萬列車公里1.42件低於歷年的平均值1.84件最後針對最近本公司T204車次 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3163.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3184.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
停靠板橋車站去為開車門供旅客上下車事件來做個報告經過本公司調查結果本次事件屬於人為的疏忽主要的原因在於該列車駕駛沒有按照SOP來進行釐清以及確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3187.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3208.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
為了避免日後再有類似的情形發生高鐵公司以進行內部的檢討以改善包括暫停該駕駛勤務三個月其中包含實施特別訓練以及由航醫中心來進行心理測驗與視覺性檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3211.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3232.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
另外公司已發布通告提醒所有的駕駛應該要落實SOP並且徵修行控中心列車長列車駕駛相關的應變處置規定以避免人為疏忽再發生另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3234.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3241.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
有關本案的懲處人已提報將請審議委員會來審議會將會將依這個審議的結果來辦理相關的懲處事宜最後感謝主席委員們的聆聽台灣高鐵將持續以安全為最高指導原則來參考國內外優良安全績效的標 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3264.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3284.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
運輸優良的運輸安全績效的標竿企業或者的機構來精進我們的風險管理與安全管理系統以提供國人安全可靠的高速鐵路運輸服務以上報告敬請各位委員支持指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3286.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3296.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
好 謝謝高鐵公司的鄭董事長的報告接下來請中華航空公司的高董事長來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3315.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3332.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
主席各位委員先進今天僅代表中華航空公司應邀來列席貴委員會就航空安全事件的檢討與改善專題提出一個報告並聆聽各位委員的指教僅此表示謝意 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3333.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3356.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
本公司在執行每一趟飛行任務的時候安全第一都是我們的最高原則4月13號CI753由桃園飛往新加坡的航班航機在不知名的飛航情報區裡在高空巡航期間因為一個引擎的故障巡航高度由39000英尺下降到24000英尺 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3359.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3378.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
確認安全無虞之後機長和本公司的聯管中心以衛星電話聯繫取得最新的天氣資料發現航程中有一些機場新加坡、胡志明、馬尼拉等還有航路上面都有一些預報的雷雨即將深沉 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3379.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3404.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
考慮在低的巡航高度而且只有單引擎的情況之下我們決定選擇較平穩的航路轉降高雄這是由機長做的最後的決策在此也特別要感謝民航局的驅管中心在航路上給予的協助接下來我們就借一張投影片我們來看一下在 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3408.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3431.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
起飛的時候二號引擎關車那儀表顯示的叫LAND ANSA就是在最近的合適的機場做一個落地那這個時候我們飛行組員第一個就是處理這個飛機把從39000英尺下降的同時把該做的程序做完然後在 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3434.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3444.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
飛機得到平穩的控制之後他立刻以衛星電話和華航的聯管中心聯繫取得各方的資訊之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3445.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3470.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
然後做了一個決定回到那個那個我們的那個高雄那底下有一個這個當下考量的從新加坡胡志明高雄還有馬尼拉因為只有兩萬四千英尺然後只有單發動機的時候事實上他的飛行時間大概分別是一小時五十九分到兩小時二十四分之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3472.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3498.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那這個油量在精算也發現到高雄都沒有問題所以機長最後他的決策就是說回到高雄那我們再看下一張投影片這個是由中央氣象提供的一個顯著天氣的一個氣象圖那各位可以看得到這個有個三角點的那條線就是他的航路那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3499.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3525.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
中南半島在菲律賓在新加坡附近那些看起來有一些好像棉花的那個東西就是雷雨的深層區所以當下他的決定發現一路從台北下來的時候那整個航路都是平穩的所以為了最安全起見他決定走原來的航路回到高雄應該是風險最小的一個航路 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3527.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3542.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那飛機轉降到高雄的時候,燃油還是充足的那所有的航線在下午的1點45分安全落地那總共飛了兩個鐘頭26分從他轉降開始算起,到落地是兩個鐘頭26分 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3545.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3571.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那航機安全落地高雄後公司第一時間就啟動了旅客關懷跟資源的機制吊派了另外一架救援班機在當天下午由高雄起飛順利將全體的旅客送到新加坡同時高雄機場也安排專責人員主動提供說明協助確保每一位旅客受到妥善的照顧還有安撫 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3572.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3582.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
本公司深知旅途中突發事件可能帶來的不便跟不安所以我們用最大的誠意以及速度全力協助旅客行程的續行 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3584.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3609.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那為了持續這個風險的管控以及應變我們也深刻的檢討那也做了幾個具體作為的一個改善第一個就是將本事件列入本公司內部非函安全的案例作為例行安全訓練課程以及機組模擬訓練時候的一個教材有助非函組員的應變能力跟決策能力的提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3610.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3628.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
第二個我們持續強化我們的發動機跟飛機製造商的聯繫跟合作在既有的飛航監控上面進一步優化相關的流程對於發動機異常情況的早期預警持續提升我們的應變效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3629.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3653.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
第三,本事件發生時公司立即啟動應變機制並妥善完成航機轉降及旅客後續處理可惜還是在一些社群平台上出現一些比較片段的資訊造成社會大眾的誤解或疑慮我們未來將會加強這一方面的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3654.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3680.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那飛航安全是本公司最高而且不可妥協的一個原則本公司會持續的秉持開放及負責的態度主動、清楚、精確的向社會大眾傳遞飛安的資訊及企業的誠信期盼外界給予我們的監督、支持的同時也能夠信賴機組人員在每一趟任務中所展現的專業以及對飛安的一個堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3684.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3711.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那本公司在做這樣的一個決策是由各相關單位提供資訊最終由機長做最後的決策對於身處第一線的機長做出的決定只要合乎安全規範公司都會予以支持以上是本公司針對這件事情的檢視以及精進的報告敬請各位委員指教 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3714.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3741.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
好謝謝華航我們高董事長那個應援會的報告就請大家參閱書面資料其餘的也拜託大家請參閱書面的報告來那我們現在先來這個確定議事錄剛才議事人員已經宣讀完畢對於議事日大家有沒有意見好沒有意見我們議事錄就確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3747.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3772.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
好 現在進行巡打先先告以下事項巡打時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘花園登記到10點30分截止那各委員如果有臨時的提案請10點以前提出以便議事人員那個會診 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3774.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3787.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那暫定10點30分休息10分鐘中午嚴則性不休息現在請登記第一位的洪孟楷委員花言 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3794.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3806.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
好 主席麻煩請陳士凱部長好 那個交通部陳部長民航局局長還有我們運安會主委好 那個民航局何局長 來運安會林主委 來高董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3807.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3836.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我先很快的來就教因為這一次的這個4月13號華航的飛機的一個狀況剛剛高董事長也說明很清楚但是我想還是要請教這次運安會你的報告講是說非屬重大運輸事故範圍所以為立案調查但本席之前有提過其實運安會應該是一個防範於未然我們當然不希望說每一次是重大事故之後我們才來去做相關的調查如果可以我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3838.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3856.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
預先預防的一個情況下來去做一個調查跟了解是不是會更加的妥適來 運安會是不是說明一下委員講的沒有錯是如果會預防防範以未然這是最好的那麼這樣子它對航空機實質沒有損害那我們有沒有看到真正的low data |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3857.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3875.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
來 部長或者是我們院安會因為現在是民航局有相關監理機關進行調查那現在華航告訴我們今天給我們的一個簡報是相對比較簡陋只有跟我們講說天氣其他的機場都是不行的那請教不管是我們現在民航局也好或是院安會也好有沒有看到當天的一個確實的一個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3878.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3904.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
跟委員報告 基本上民航局這邊已經訪談了相關的駕駛跟公司那有關派遣的相關天氣資料我們已經拿到也有看到相關的數據當天的數據狀況當天的我們還要再調還要再調對 因為相關Meta資料現在4月30號了 4月13號兩個多禮拜以前的事情那現在今天我們做專案報告結果你跟我們講是說你的資料還要再調 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3905.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3921.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我們的資料就是我們還要因為根據黃航剛剛講的當天因為機場的前一個小時是包含那個是由機場端來報就是新加坡 臘戶 自民等等所以這些資料基本上我們也要經過判讀跟相關的時間然後包含當天的操作來 部長本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3926.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3951.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
也過去也是華航的常客我搭最多的就是華航因為我覺得是值得信賴也是我們國家的航空那但是在飛安事件上來講在這次的事故裡面很多人都會懷疑不是以飛安為最優先的考量而是以維修方便所以不是選擇最近的胡志明市的機場或者是馬尼拉機場而是選擇回來到我們台灣的小港機場小港機場不在我們的這個飛行計畫裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3952.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3969.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
是不是是報告員本來是沒有在飛行計畫裡面那當時我所理解的是當時的駕駛他是有判斷鄰近的那幾個機場的天氣的狀況包含新加坡在內包含馬尼拉那也包含越南那我們有沒有看到確實的當天 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3972.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3989.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
這幾個機場的氣候狀況報告委員剛剛還是華航給我們的資料我們就照單全收在華航的報告的內容其實已經有講到氣候的狀況是但我們有沒有主動去了解跟掌握這個部分我們在調資料當中銀行局正在調資料當中這個我會要求其實真的沒有那麼難調來我們先看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3990.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4007.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
當天本市也去查了一下當天確實新加坡下午的地方有可能會有雷陣雨對飛航有可能有關安全的疑慮來當你也看到胡志明市胡志明市整體的氣象降雨量少以及馬尼拉 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4010.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4029.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
4月13號當天的一個氣象大致穩定但午後可能會有局部雷陣雨我想這個是專業的判斷本席都可以請同仁先去找出相關的資料那更重要的是專業的判斷你這個資料是飛航需求的資料嗎專業判斷對所以本席才逼到因為飛航需求的資料需要前一個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4030.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4048.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
沒錯 所以部長本席才會提醒你如果說兩個禮拜之後到現在你們都沒有掌握資料你們只是片面的聽信華航提供的資料我覺得這不夠專業也沒有盡到監管機關的責任報告委員氣象資料民航局有掌握不是沒有掌握但是監管機關是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4051.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4060.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
他有掌握啊 他有掌握本席 部長你剛剛沒有辦法回答我的問題其實我說實在話 哪個問題沒辦法回答部長你在反質詢是不是沒有 我沒有在反質詢哪個問題沒辦法回答部長 你就針對問題是啊 沒有問題啊 好不好來來來 部長本席現在在 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4071.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4097.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
要求的是交通部站在中央主管機關應該要看到我們各飛航的專業來協助飛航怎麼樣做經濟而華航主要在這一次的事件裡面讓外界質疑的聲音到現在沒有少過即便今天講得如此的好聽但是我說了到現在兩個禮拜之後到目前為止你們的飛航紀錄以及相關的航空資訊到目前為止你們沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4098.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4121.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
既然沒有掌握本席只是要求說是不是應該要去做一個管理以及立案調查去真真正正的了解說當天的狀況是不是符合現場的判斷報告委員民航局說他們有掌握啦只是說資料要分析需要再分析相關的資料他們真的有掌握啦不是沒掌握跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4122.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4130.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
如果說要這樣硬凹的話我覺得這不是一個做實現的做法沒有就是沒有那我可以請民航局提供資料給你來我們再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4131.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4158.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
民航局什麼時候會給國人一個清楚明白的交代針對這一次的華航的判斷的一個事件因為外界大家都在質疑其實我今天有很多的議題啊部長我說實在話我很希望能夠心平氣和跟你就專業論專業今天是在做後續的檢討我們今天沒有發生任何的人為意外我覺得這是萬幸但是萬幸完之後我們要去釐清說到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4159.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4180.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
華航的決策是不是站在乘客的安全為最高指導標準還是說站在他們的航空的維護的安全方面你可以搖頭那就代表請你用數據以及用你們的報告專業的來說服我們而不是到現在兩個禮拜之後給出了我們這一份只有華航單方面的一個片面資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4182.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4205.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
來再來 報告委員民航局的報告是用書面的他不是來台上報告但他有提供書面您可以參考他的書面報告黃航有沒有看到這一個投書有 有看到黃航剛剛跟我們講得非常的好聽喔說有包括這個這個回程的作業支持主動跟旅客致意表達歉意等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4206.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4233.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那我們來看一下這個是其中一個投書然後過去一個禮拜非常煎熬始終沒有任何正式的說明或者是更新以乘客安全當時的機上廣播以乘客安全為優先的決定感覺像是以公私利益為出發點這是大多數乘客的感受最後收到的希望能夠索取一個延誤證明但最後收到的是一個簡單的備忘錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4234.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4255.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
沒有忽略台北起飛13.5個小時的過程以及收到的是一個300塊的餐券跟金沙巧克力華航你的資料報告說明的很完整看起來完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4256.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4267.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
最大的關懷處理最大的誠意速度全力處理協助平安續行但實際上乘客的感受是這樣子天差地別這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4271.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4294.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這對姐弟我們有掌握在新加坡人當時飛機回航的時候在高雄我們就盡力的供應飲料還有餐食這些東西就是為了準備下一次的起飛後來我們在當天下午就又派了一架加班機從台北到高雄然後再把高雄載到新加坡去 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4295.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4310.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個我們真的不是用那個航機維修的那個考量假如真的航機維修我乾脆就飛到台北就好啦我根本不需要到高雄然後再派飛機上這個大費周章所以基本上真的是底下的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4313.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4338.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
東南亞的這些天氣不是很好所以我們華航的說明我覺得還是要由主管機關這邊來做一個認定因為這就代表是我們要看到一個問題今天真的是不幸中的大幸沒有造成任何的人員傷亡但我每一次在交通委員會我都講如果說要等到人員傷亡要等到後面全都排排站有很多攝影機的時候那代表我們出大事 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4339.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4345.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
不要有任何事情最好所以在這件例子上面民航局什麼時候能夠再做釐清來給國人確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4348.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4376.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
跟委員報告因為剛剛所提到的相關關心的天氣資料也好飛航的過程組員的判斷等等因為民航局都要根據剛剛委員所提的我們自己調查到的資料而不是單憑華航的提供的資料所以這個部分我們需要花一些時間在做處理那是不是委員這邊可以給我們如果是初步報告因為一般來講我們是完成完整的報告那如果初步的報告我們是不是建議可以一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4376.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4402.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
好 一個月來 部長再來請教我們上上禮拜有討論到美國關稅的問題那你也提到是說對於觀光業以及運輸業 航運業有很大的衝擊那現在行政院提出了4100億本期兩個禮拜前在這邊有跟您就教交通部有沒有針對這個部分特別條例有爭取任何行政院這邊的支持那現在4100億出來啦本來的880億 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4406.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4422.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
沒有交通部那多增加了三四倍到4100億到目前為止沒有看到細項那我想請教4100億裡面交通部不管是觀光的部分不管是航運的部分佔了多少報告委員我們有個別跟這個航運業界空運業界 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4423.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4443.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
還有觀光業界大家都有辦過座談會那目前看起來海運跟航空的影響還沒有很大所以這個部分目前應該就是有一些調整性的東西跟彈性的東西我們有提供給業者給他們協助那另外觀光業界我昨天有跟他們座談我有看到新聞也有出來但我現在問的問題部長深度問題回答問題好4100億 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4447.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4470.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
有支持產業930億有國土安全認証1500億有照顧民生1670億這個是額外因應美國關稅那你兩個禮拜前在這邊也詢答說有特別講到觀光產業有可能會有非常大的衝擊我們那時候也說料底要從寬所以如果說有任何支持資源的力量也應該要來預先掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4470.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4482.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那4100億裡面有沒有交通的部分目前我們跟這個業者大家座談跟一些協助的方案的討論我們目前用觀光的基金應該都還能夠應付所以4100億裡面是沒有交通觀光 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4486.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4500.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
你們做決策要負責啦來最後我想今天很重要的部分還是在於是安全的部分那有兩個我再佔用一小段時間啦有兩個最近的新聞我覺得這個東西也是見為之助 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4502.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4525.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
部長一個是有行人要過馬路那高舉雙手舉了雙手意思就代表說要過馬路那結果這一個畫面裡面他可能沒有辦法播放影片那這個畫面裡面連續過了十幾台車都沒有停落那之後才讓這個行人過去這是一個部分另外下一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4526.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4550.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
因為行人在過馬路而導致於救護車已經有警示燈的救護車他要等行人過馬路而救護車才啟動那再加上早上新聞又推播我們交通部的小編跟剛剛部長一樣也是很強悍很嗆 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4553.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4580.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
就是在交通部的很嗆是講道理很嗆不會用嗆的啦很好部長我們希望就事論事就專業論專業啦所以一樣就是說在現在的執法已經我們為了要擺脫行人地獄一年多的時間但難免在社會上有遇到很多的狀況每個人都會以本位主義為考量駕駛用路人以及行人等等的部分本席認為應該都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4583.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4609.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我們不能說偏廢權益都要互相尊重那在這兩個案例裡面部長看到什麼樣的狀況報告委員大家像委員剛剛所提到的大家對於大家平等的狀況的共識我認為這個社會還不足啦那但是對交通部來說最重要的行人的安全因為這關係到人命這個部分我們會去要求所以剛剛那個影片雖然沒有辦法播放但我有看過那桃園市政府也有針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4611.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4636.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這十幾台車有裁罰這個部分有裁罰那針對行人的部分其實我知道因為這個我們現在開始尊重行人之後有些行人的違規的狀況我們也都看得到那這個部分該罰其實也都有罰那最近這兩年我們在行人違規的開罰的這個數量其實也增加了不少因為現在大家都有行車紀錄器如果有行車紀錄器的檢舉這些該罰其實也都會罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4639.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4659.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
開罰是最好的做法嗎其實不是大家的觀念是最重要的所以我們觀念的提升以及怎麼樣用制度的設計讓更多人能夠清楚明白了解一個過馬路每天大家都要做的事情的一個順暢本席只提一個這一個我覺得真的是可以研究討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4661.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4678.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
粉絲專頁上面也拍到日本有一個畫面他是在很多的價值朋友也抱怨就是說有看到行人在路邊的時候他不確定這行人到底要不要過馬路也因此他不確定說要不要停等那行人如果說他已經有他的習慣譬如說舉手代表是過馬路 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4680.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4700.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
另外一個部分像日本他有一個有趣的設計是說他有多畫一個過馬路時候的停等區如果說行人站在那上面代表他就是要準備過馬路那那個時候駕駛就應該要停下來讓行人過但如果說他不是停在那個地方的話可能他只是在路邊等朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4700.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4710.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
他就不一定要停下來我覺得光這樣子的一個部分也許在幾個路口可以做事辦的方式非號之路口是可以這麼做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4711.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4740.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們可以來示範我們可以來示範我覺得這是蠻好的方法但我本席提醒一下像這個它是畫在馬路上如果說畫的話應該是要畫在行人畫裡面一點是畫裡面一點不然我覺得我看了也覺得說這個小朋友在馬路上側邊好像也有點危險為了要去那邊停等在日本可能比較安全在台灣可能比較危險所以部長針對這個部分如果說能夠來示範什麼時候能夠來推行或說至少來做一個研擬跟規劃設計省到找個地方來做好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4741.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4754.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們省道很快速的來示範幾個路口 好不好好 我想還是要跟地方政府溝通之後來去做推行 對好不好 新北市跟台北市我們來跟他們溝通好 感謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝洪孟楷委員現在請李崑澤委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4766.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4775.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
好 謝謝召委 請一下部長好 交通部陳部長台鐵五代董事長高鐵政董事長好 高鐵政董事長楊振軍局長好 楊振軍局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4786.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4813.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
部長好有關於近期社會大眾對於台鐵月台門的設置他的設置雖然是事半但是他的經費高達一億五千萬那社會大眾對於這樣的一個月台門設置及所需的經費大家議論紛紛其實有兩種主要的聲音第一種是要不要做月台門有必要嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4814.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4829.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
第二種是說有必要做但是有必要要花這麼多錢嗎 為什麼要花這麼多錢那其實有關於月台門設置的這樣的一個討論最主要是在我記得是在2022年11月28日 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4833.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4855.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
台鐵台北站有一位行動不方便的旅客啊他因為做輪椅操作的問題啊或者是人潮擁擠啊不慎摔落軌道 因而受傷社會上大家都很不敢的啦所以就討論到說是不是有越台門設置的議題所以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4856.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4880.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
11月30號就是過了兩天之後我們在交通委員會我就質詢相關月台門的這樣的一個議題是不是說我們要來解釋相關月台狹窄的這個問題或者是要討論是否要設置月台門以及要設置月台門有哪些的優先的順序或者是相關的時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4881.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4900.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那其實我要跟部長提醒一下其實不只是2022年討論到要設置月台門與否在2017年其實台鐵在社會大眾因為每年都發生很多的這種衰落鐵軌的這樣一個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4901.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4919.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
所以說社會大眾就有在討論要不要設月台門那當時我記得是要設置在百福站百福站就是在七堵區他有一個百福站是否要設置這樣的一個月台門但是當時因為車種複雜他的車寬車距車門的車寬車距不一樣以及月台的這個寬距也不一樣還有相關技術的問題系統整合的問題所以就這個計畫就延宕下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4931.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4950.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那現在設置這樣的一個越台南門的議題最主要是屢屢都發生很多的這樣那個跌落 落軌的事件不管是台鐵或是高鐵 高鐵最近就發生了三件這樣一個落軌的事件其實不只是最近的這些件數 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4951.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4971.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
最主要的我看這個雙鐵台鐵高鐵每年平均的落軌事件都在10件以上我們看到台鐵的2022到2024以及高鐵的2022到2024的落軌事件都超過10件以上其實高鐵更多啦因為計算 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4973.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4995.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
申報上來的這個建樹計算的基礎不一樣台鐵是有跌落軌道有受傷與否或者是啊造成車輛的延誤有沒有但是只要跌落軌道他們就通報就作為計算基礎高鐵沒有啊高鐵只有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4996.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5021.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
造成列車的延誤啊才會列入這個計算是不是這樣來高鐵鄭董事長講一下委員說的是的我們有報告給鐵道局的是有列車延誤五分鐘以上的這事件我們才會通報所以跌落受傷了就沒有計算為什麼我知道呢因為我處理過一個服務案件民眾在桃園站他 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5023.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5038.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
下電梯手扶梯要去搭高鐵他不慎跌落軌道受傷雖然高鐵有做後續的處理但是就沒有列入這樣一個跌落軌道的一個計算了所以我要說的就是說我們必須要更嚴謹的態度來處理落軌的這種狀況申報要確實而且啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5043.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5065.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
弱鬼的事件是非常的多 弱鬼的事件有看到行動不方便的朋友或者是長者 或者是兒童 或者是身體不舒服的旅客或者是因為旅客因為擁擠 推擠或者是個人生命選擇的這樣的一個狀況所以啊這個都必須去做相關的 所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5066.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5095.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
部長你認為這種月台門的設置是有必要性嗎報告委員必要性我們要看第一剛剛委員有提到是擁擠的部分那第二個就是說針對安全的部分弱軌的次數比較多的那些車站代表說它擁擠的程度可能是相對高我們會優先來處理那我所知道的是高鐵是不是有計畫未來我們盡量每一個車站都要有做月台門的設置高鐵在2024年的9月就已經正式宣布要全面的來裝設月台門 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5095.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5116.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
而且是以板橋跟新竹 因為新竹風很大那板橋因為旅客也眾多 他們要以這兩個站來做優先他們是要全線都要坐越他們 是不是啊 鄭董事長說明一下 是的各位報告 我們確實整個12站都已經發包那尤其在今年的1月已經正式開工了 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5116.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5140.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那目前的進度我們準備在三年內就是117年年中的時候整個12個月台的這個月台們全部可以做完那目前我們已經今年裡面應該可以完成這個Polotype的這個測試完成然後我們首先就會剛才委員所提到從新竹跟板橋先做那這應該在明年就可以做了在2024年9月 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5141.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5150.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
高鐵就正式宣布要全線去做了我又宣布其實在2024年同年的年底12月在左營站 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5151.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5174.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
就發生了旅客不幸落軌身亡的這樣一個事故其實這個月台門設置其實是有它的必要性好 那現在民眾會說設置月台的月台門在安全性的提升是有幫助的現在民眾更質疑的是說為什麼300公尺的四座就要花了1億5000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5176.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5201.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
為什麼要花這麼多錢當然這個試做的這樣的一個項目不會是只有說那個月台門下降的這個部分而已它有包含這個事辦的一面升降的四欄繩的月台門還有障礙物偵測的系統還有列車感測感知系統CCTV的監控系統資訊整合系統還有機房監視等一次性的固定設備那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5204.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5211.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我聖遠代理董事長來說明一下這些啊他的各系統的功能跟他的必要性因為啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5213.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5234.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
下降的這個部分300公尺1億5千萬當然不是只有下降的這個部分它有很多的系統這樣的系統在其他裝置的時候就不用再做了嘛是不是就是說你這個月台是兩邊嘛你現在先做一邊嘛另外一邊在做的時候它的價格是不是就更便宜來說明一下仔細說明報告齁委員剛剛講的沒有錯齁因為我們這個屬於四半齁所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5239.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5258.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
大概同仁有很多的想法希望能夠把很多的功能放進來包括監控的部分也包括我們的相關的資訊看可不可以傳到我們現在所謂的鐵道園去所以監控的事情比較多一點那剛剛提到我們現在是一側但是未來我們是兩側所以就是說裡面的建設一些監控我就可以少掉很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5259.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5279.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
作為我們來講成本會比較會更低啦另外一個我們針對這個事辦以後我們會相關的功能我們再做一個檢視有些其實可以不用那麼多啦我們把它剪掉未來的這個月台門如果做的話一定會更便宜好 吳董事長我再來提問一個問題就是相關的這個月台門 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5281.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5305.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
上升或下降一直在下降的時候我們看到很多的工廠或公司或是居家的鐵門因為下來的時候造成了民眾或是兒童不慎壓傷或者是造成生命的一些衝擊的狀況那我們這個安全的狀況當然我知道會有一些接觸式的感應或是非接觸式的感應市井的系統偵測的系統來簡單說明這些安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5308.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5322.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我先報告一下像這個剛剛講我們就有所謂的非接觸性的用感光箱去看如果有的話它一定會停止那還有所謂的接觸式的你就碰到房甲裝置這個部分在這功能裡面我們目前現在都有考慮進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5323.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5351.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
好 相關的旅客的安全是最重要的一個前提那部長也應該確實的相關的督促我知道這個一億五千萬的爭議其實它是經過公開的招標然後政風單位一開始也都有相關的按照程序來做相關的處置那我們希望要對社會大眾來說明清楚對於社會大眾安全的提升尤其必要性的都應該要去做 以上好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5353.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5375.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
謝謝李坤澤委員現在請傅坤祺總召謝謝主席 請部長請交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5385.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5410.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
部長早我想今天我們的詢答都是關心我們整體交通的發展是因為主席給的時間很短所以我們能夠盡快好不好好 請問及答好不好好本席提醒一下2020蔡英文總統競選連任的時候推出的交通政策白皮書很清楚接駐西高鐵東快鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5412.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5440.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
部長知道這個事嗎是我知道要不要履行正在做西高鐵東快鐵東快鐵的時速要提升到多少車速部長了解嗎車速這個我沒有把它記起來局長是不是可以回答時速我們是透過提升路線標準來提高平均速度最高速度並沒有提升一樣是130 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5441.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5457.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
你可以回去翻一下過去幾次2020年本席跟歷任的交通部長的詢答或是歷任的行政院長的詢答你們可以去查清楚交通部所提出來是時速可以到160公里160公里 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5460.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5484.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
如果你們不知道的話可以回去看一下歷次的詢問報告委員 剛剛局長有說就是後來有經過研究 確實當時有這麼說但是經過研究之後認為不可行160 安全沒有說可不可行現在的交通技術是在逐步的往上提升當時對人民的承諾是160不能執政越久 這個承諾越來越低 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5485.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5513.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我想交通的技術只有日新月異沒有在跟人民宣示你們是越做越差我想160是過去很清楚的一個政策說明你們必須要間接旅行的來旅行當時也提到當時速到160的時候環島是6小時全國共同的生活圈 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5515.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5528.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
所以這是對全國國人來講是非常雀躍的一件事情當時我們對這個政策也非常的支持那部長從2017年這個花東鐵路雙軌電氣化從開始的這個可行研究410億到後來核定456億大概都400多億的範疇 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5542.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5551.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
裡面啦 前瞻預算編列了多少錢269269億那到現在為止 前瞻計畫已經積極扶持 行快完畢了前瞻計畫裡面 總共華東雙軌電信化 總共編列了多少錢實際編列了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5563.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5567.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
前瞻計畫裡面對花東雙軌電氣化實際實際編列了多少 實編63.53億所以當時的8000多億的前瞻計畫民進黨政府宣示啊在花東雙軌的部分269億 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5590.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5617.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
在整個8000多億的前瞻裡面269億用在花蓮台東所以所以當時這個占比就讓前瞻計畫和其他給花東地區的預算就相對的被排擠結果現在前瞻計畫已經差不多8000多億差不多快要結束了 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5618.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5619.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
結果269億剩下62億為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5625.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5650.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
報告委員 當時是因為他編列的時程比較後面所以其他的預算跟其他的計畫都已經在先行了那前瞻應該這個預算要保留啊那是核定的時間的問題 但是跟委員報告後來我們還是用公務預算我們用一般的公務預算一樣可以支應同樣的一個計畫當然用一般的公務預算可以做但是既然公務預算要做 為什麼要匡列前瞻呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5650.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5673.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
所以你們現在自漏馬腳 當時的269億因為高舉了269億前瞻的大旗所以花蓮台東地區在使用這8000多億前瞻的部分就被相對的排擠了到今天為止真相揭露出來269億 200多億不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5676.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5703.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那還是回到公務預算那當時前瞻劃給花蓮台東人269億那200億跑哪裡去了報告委員那個部分本來就沒有辦法去保留預算但是我們一樣是用公務預算對花東的居民我們一樣是這麼重視還有最後前瞻的餘額如果要用的話也用在花蓮台東 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5705.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5730.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
不然的話你們整體八千多億的前瞻最後用在花蓮台東是多少你們很難跟人民來交代您的提醒我們來爭取很難對人民交代如果你沒有確實的來履行這樣的一個責任我們很難對於最後一期的前瞻來表示贊同 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5732.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5759.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
本席在隆重的讓部長能夠了解報告委員 這個我們來爭取對於啊當時提速到160公里最主要的原因最主要的原因就是因為啊花東雙軌電氣化提速到160成為東快鐵就是因為花蓮到吉安有七個危險平交道這七個危險平交道 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5761.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5790.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
必須納入立體化才能夠把整個曲線的速度加快這是當時不管是部長院長再三再三的聲明也支持而且由交通部概括承受因為它不是城市的縫合不是為了地方的繁榮發展而是要履行環島的六小時共同生活圈 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5795.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5818.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
一直到去年本席都支持花中雙軌從2017年的410億到2024年因為要把立體化花蓮到吉安的七個危險平交道所以提升到955億交通部我們都支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5819.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5834.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
但是怎麼會在你任內又把它修正成691億然後把花蓮吉安七個危險評價到立體化全數排除部長你要做歷史的罪人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5837.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5864.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
報告委員 這個審查的過程有它的專業性那我們要考量到一致性跟公平性所以呢 雙軌電氣化我們就把它拿來做雙軌電氣化但是如果是高價化的部分我們另外可以做高價化的來做其他的計畫部長一件衣服要做兩次嘛 同一件衣服要做兩次你講的是完全不可行的事情嘛表示你完全沒有準備嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5866.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5884.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
你把政策改成這樣你做好了準備嗎同一個路廊你要做兩次嗎報告員如果現在我們把高價化的計畫趕快提出來我們到時候會一次試做不會分兩次好那你什麼時候要提出來這個應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5888.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5911.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
花蓮縣政府如果趕快提出來我們就趕快把他計畫趕快來審查這怎麼跟花蓮縣政府又扯上關係呢交通部已經概括承受啦高加化的事情是地方政府提出當然當時已經是納入了這個是中央改善危險道路而且符合東快鐵整體曲線的速度包括費用都是由中央概括承受 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5920.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5947.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
有幾位部長宣示過你知道嗎這我不曉得本席請你回去google一下林佳龍部長王國才部長蘇貞昌院長陳建仁院長在院會的詢答都表示過本席再提醒你一下這些幕僚不曉得跟你講什麼你要回去看看過去的部長跟院長的詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5949.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5976.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
還有對人民的承諾是什麼這不同於宜蘭跟嘉義他們是做地方繁榮的城市縫合而東快點是中央的政策並不是來提升地方的繁榮而是環島共同生活圈是蔡總統 民進黨政府的交通白皮書部長了解了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5980.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6001.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這題本席還會再請教你希望幕僚給你正確的訊息也希望你回去看一下那對於行政院院長所提出要把這個票價這個花東居民的票價要有優惠的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6002.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6027.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
本席請問你什麼時候可以提出來報告委員我們希望因為票價的調漲是在六月二十三我們希望在六月二十三也可以同步我們希望我們現在不是什麼時候提出來這個這個政策嗎讓我們能夠了解嗎報告委員花東居民的優惠這是確定的政策一定會做但是確定的方案跟內容目前台鐵正在研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6029.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6049.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
什麼時候可以演繹出來我們希望6月23可以跟票價的整體同步來進行本席講得很清楚嘛你不要一直老是講6月23同步6月23之前我們總要討論過吧是啊我會聽你們是關門自己做事情嗎我會請他們提早提出來提早什麼時候可以提出來有這麼困難嗎我們一個月一個月的時間來提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6058.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6085.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
一個月今天是今天30號到5月305月30以前好不好好 5月30以前另外啊對於怎麼優惠是一件事情怎麼把觀光客吸引進來是一件事情對於整個你們這次所訂定的平均的票價 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6087.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6113.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
全國平均是26調漲26%但卻對花蓮台東地區調漲是32本身認為這個要先趨於一致性要先趨於一致性全國應該是一致性報告委員他有遞遠遞減啦因為那個運具的競爭但是現在平均算出來就是這樣子嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6116.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6142.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
平均算出來就是這樣子吧所以你們現在的政策本其實希望你現在的政策要進行調整嘛這不是懲罰偏遠地區的人民嗎也不會 其實台北到台中的漲幅只有19%台北到台中19%台東19%所以越遠 越偏遠其實是越遠到花蓮花蓮比較近 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6143.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6154.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
花蓮比較近所以到花蓮是多少離台北就32沒有錯32好到花蓮32那請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6155.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6173.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
你們為什麼可以把它認為台北到花蓮可以到32%包委員這是以距離來算以距離來算好 西部從台北可能到彰化你也32%台北到台中的漲幅也是差不多那請問一下台北到台中的交通所有的幹線 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6175.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6203.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
包括高鐵包括高速公路密密麻麻高速公路快速道路有多少條報告委員所以花東有優惠方案我們正在研擬本席現在告訴你喔在去年10月就已經在本委員會已經做了決議在整體花東道路沒有改善完成之前不可以做不可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6205.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6234.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
票價的調漲因為那是唯一對外公共運具就只有台鐵這已經做成了決議你們對立法院的決議完全視若無睹嗎所以花東會有優惠方案本席認為你在優惠方案之前應該先要想清楚整體的交通要如何解決如何改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6236.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6264.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這個才是交通部該做的當務之急啊所以啊本席在這裡啊希望啊部長能夠體恤啊零四零三大地震到現在現在花蓮假日的住房大概四成五成平日大概兩成所有的產業愛好遍野 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6267.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6294.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
呂書業一家一家的關門國家整體的觀光去年逆差是900萬人次出入國逆差消費是7000億元我們記錄的是東南亞最後一名部長今年可不可以把這個成績改善報告委員今年一定會比去年更成長我們會努力這個成長的幅度跟其他國家成長的幅度一樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6296.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6310.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
呃 要看比哪個國家好 比大多數的國家要成長 東南亞大多數的國家要成長可以嗎 我們盡量來努力你的成績單我們很快就看到了 好好不好 好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝傅坤祺委員現在請陳雪生委員執行好 請交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6328.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6357.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
沒問題何局長部長昨天我到高雄去參加華信華信高雄到馬祖我們的啟航典禮昨天陳金邁市長也親自前來我們馬祖的山長也趕到高雄去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6358.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6367.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我想我在致詞的時候首先先講這一個高雄到馬祖的航線應該是創下藍綠藍綠我們共同合作這個最佳的一個範例那麼當場陳金邁市長也提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6378.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6395.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
官兵的部分,高雄的子弟他在補助每一張單人票價1500塊當然因為軍方那邊他可能有免票,這個他們已經在討論了,而且交代秘書長跟國防部密切的協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6396.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6408.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
那麼為了促進人流,他們高雄的觀光業者陳金派市長也允諾給予優惠的方案,甚至提出希望人流能夠加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6409.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6428.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那麼當然馬祖的鄉親對這樣的一個守航非常的興奮也期待,但是覺得班次太少陳姬邁市長也表示,確實太少了一點那我支持的時候也講了,在商言商嘛,華航也好,華信也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6429.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6455.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
他是一個股份有限公司嘛,是不是?是但官方去介入,因為他還有私股、民股在裡面嘛對,華航是上市公司所以希望這個航線,把它促成以後,能夠還有第二班、第三班當然謝董過去的努力,我們非常感念他高董上來以後,高董原來是華信的董事長現在華信董事長派了沒有,我不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6457.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6471.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
董事長就是高董還是高董建?華信還沒我一直期待我有沒有機會去部長你看看有機會的話可以推薦一下好不好大財不要小用 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6472.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6499.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
不會不會,我們非常感謝高雄市政府還有中華航空公司、華信航空公司還有民航局交通部部長在內非常的努力讓航線能夠在6月6日順利起航這個藍綠我們能夠這樣合作最好了把航線順利起航,當然裡面還有立法委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6500.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6524.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那個誰啊,許智傑啦,許智傑委員啦還有我們昆澤委員啦,大家都幫了很多的忙啦第二件事情就是這個有沒有機會,高董你在這邊,有沒有機會第二班因為你禮拜五飛過去,那回來啊,國防課還要回來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6525.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6535.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
演習會再加一班好不好,你努力一下我們努力好不好我們飛航以後如果可以的話你再努力一下那我也接續上次總諮詢啊,對周院長總諮詢這個錢要憲政我來出沒什麼道理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6542.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6566.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個我們先試飛嘛好不好先飛嘛我們先飛啦運量有起來其實縣政府就不用補貼如果運量有超過七成那是最好的大家都不用補貼可以讓華信可以繼續飛下去那如果超過七成或許委員剛剛所提到的兩班我們就有機會我們把運量先養起來我們非花蓮非台東你有要台東縣政府花蓮縣政府也七折嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6568.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6596.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這個來保七這個沒道理啦是不是報告委員當時是縣府自己提出來的對啊 是我們自己提出來啊為了促其實現嘛所以我們很無奈陳金派事長講的這是社會責任啊我們把它做起來之後 華信來努力然後我們也請一些旅行業者大家一起共同來努力把這個運量把它做起來行的便利 交通的安全 交通部你們責無旁貸了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6597.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6620.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
要縣政府去補貼你們很丟人耶七八千億的預算在那邊要縣政府去補貼這個小小的幾百萬這個說不過去了好不好我們一起加油一下好不好等飛機飛了以後再說高董你請回謝謝啦你休息一下嘛第二個就是馬祖大橋啊我在總諮詢的時候以前288億 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6622.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6646.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
從一百多億幾十億到兩百八十八億這是4C精算出來的咧4C精算出來的東西卓院長突然跟我提到說要三百八十幾億我嚇一跳我想部長也嚇一跳那麼英國的顧問公司他的數據是依據4C4C工程顧問公司來的那我說部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6647.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6673.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
能不能再找世襲啊再精算一次好不好你看國內的一些重大公共工程高鐵、桃園從高價改為地下化六百多億啊這個錢都給了當然目前國內的環境整個世界的環境是比較困難啦我們在財政上比較困難我也不急於意思說 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6674.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6699.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我們今天來討論這個問題但是我們機場的改建機場的改建跟馬祖大橋我想是馬祖最重要的基礎建設而且影響深遠另外何局長下去可能要再請你上來一下可以再上來沒問題北竿機場空難兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6704.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6730.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我弟弟全家無口利難我到現在還是非常的悲痛常常想念到我弟弟馬祖連一個標準的山西機場都沒有這還得了啊這個機場馬祖不是只是我們馬祖陪肝的攔肝的是我們全體國人的而且馬祖的情幣我們的巨肉寶蟲我們的藍眼淚已經是世界的景觀了 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6732.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6746.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
是不是,各國的人,外國人也都來馬祖來所以這個機場的興建勢在必行當然我也很感謝行政院已經核定了第一期是兩百二十幾億還有第二期的航廈工程等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6747.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6776.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我也希望他的開工能夠順利當然這裡面分兩階段今天這個港務公司沒有來我想何局長我們馬祖民眾還有一些聲音啊也是配套這配套最大的聲音當然是來自航空站還有利隆航空他們怕為什麼錢多勢少離家近啊他們怕說這個機場一旦施工那麼這些人要移到南竿去 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6777.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6779.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
何記長你回答我一下,這些人應該都不會動吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6782.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6806.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
跟委員報告因為剛剛有提到委員有提到分兩階段然後所以現在在做第一階段的細設那這個部分是港公司在做那在這個過程中我們也會看工程細設的狀況然後相關航空站其實在施工期間細設是不會動因為基本上都還要維持一年那施工期間的話那他可能會有做局部的調整那航空站還是要有人在那邊運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6810.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6835.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
消防人員都也在嘛基本上還是要配置那因為施工期間有施工車輛等等的相關人員也要飲食等等所以這部分航空站的人員跟相關利用或者是相關的商店等等我們會來再做一些協調跟溝通說明我想希望能夠學澳門機場新建的模式修建的模式邊飛邊做當然你在 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6836.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6857.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
圍堤的部分,城鄉的部分,不影響飛機安全的情況之下,你怎麼樣去把它區隔出來這個我想在十四、十五我們到馬祖去交通委員會考察的時候,我也希望召委能夠親自出席 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6858.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6877.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那麼在考察的時候順便跟我們鄉親提出來如果夜間施工或是那邊施工的品質影響到我們地區居民的生活品質會有一些噪音等等影響到的還有觀光 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6879.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6896.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
因為機場在興建,公安課勢必會減少班次也減少起碼馬祖北竿地區的民眾飛來台北一般沒有問題至少我希望兩班、三班也可以對觀光的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6897.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6921.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
民航局可能也要做一些對噪音、空氣品質、還有公關人數減少這些做一些配套我想在15號我想到北竿去做一個說明會當然部長你先承諾我,你晚上不要離開你第二天早上才能走好不好?好早上你的幕僚人員跟我講說,部長下午有重要的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6922.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6950.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我說當天最重要的就是馬祖的交通考察所以你如果晚上下午就走的話這我覺得不好啦好不好你先承諾我我先來排行程第二天早上好不好我們準價報告召委我們準價讓你因為交通部很忙我知道啦好不好好那麼何局長這邊請你做一些準備除了這個改建的期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6952.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6953.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
約略的,你跟港務公司講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6955.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6980.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那麼跑道的鋪面會影響,那沒辦法鋪面的時間要多長,我想第三行下你應該有所經驗了嘛,對不對我覺得你初估應該可以估得出來啦,好不好我想跟民眾既然辦了說明會了嘛我們跟民眾能夠解決他一些疑慮免得每天在那邊機場的事情這個機場的信念勢在必行 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6983.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7008.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這飛安很重要馬祖到目前為止你看連山西的機場而不可得還在半導航的狀況會影響到我們飛安的安全所以這個北竿機場的興建非常重要那麼何機長我想你請回好不好另外現在科技非常發達了我在前兩個禮拜出國那麼經過我們中正機場 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7012.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7022.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
裡面人流非常多,慢慢的已經恢復了空氣品質的改善尤其重要我到一個廁所,機場公司董事長跟我講,那個廁所本來有惡臭 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7024.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7048.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
後來他稍微做一些科技的處理能夠把空氣品質提升既然我們這個第三航廈是目前比較後面我們新的一個機場對裡面空氣品質的改善有一些能夠利用科技的部分我提醒注意一下好不好好剛才傅坤祺總召提到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7051.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7061.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
台鐵高鐵票價雙漲高鐵沒有漲那現在你什麼時候不漲,現在這個時候漲又碰到關稅的問題外面的環境蠻不好的很多店有的打壓30年沒有漲了我知道一定要漲的這個不漲是講不過去的啦所以我想說有沒有機會動場跟電費一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7081.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7090.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
報告委員這個部分如果是就花東的部分我們會有優惠的方案讓花東的居民可以用比較便宜比較不受這個漲價影響的一個方案出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7093.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7115.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
不會有影響嗎?你們配到6月份也會出來吧?6月份會出來,那影響會盡量降低,不會說完全沒影響因為這個也是全國一致性的問題所以台鐵的票價已經30年沒有漲了,大家應該都能理解台鐵要漲沒有錯,你稍微服務的品質能夠跟高鐵一樣高鐵服務,我昨天去高雄回來,高鐵服務品質非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7116.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7144.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我們鄭董在長榮總市長他這個CEO這個經營非常的不錯啦當然我原來也聽說高董要去什麼台鐵什麼的台鐵真的要向高鐵學習怎麼樣轉型這很重要台鐵如果可以跟高鐵一樣那就太好了這很重要另外就是這個我們機場興建我又想到一些問題也就是公共工程你看我們的大邱橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7146.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7168.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
為什麼?那個海域風浪非常大施工非常不容易我們縣長王縣長他從前縣長留下來一百多億的工程目前已經執行了五十多億了執行一半了他希望這一百多億的工程能夠在他任內完成如期如止的完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7170.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7198.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那目前大邱橋也陷入這個問題當然明後年應該會完成還有塘後橋塘後大橋我上次去年去交通委員會考察的時候他答應我今年三月份會完工但是目前已經跳票了馬祖我為什麼講這個呢缺工缺料缺工缺料還有我們那個秦碧的停車場到目前為止還沒有消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7199.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7228.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我去考察三次,已經連續三四年了希望趕快把他弄出來,好不好?前壁停車場還有橋子的遊客,橋子的遊客中心橋子到大丘,那個頭端那邊有遊客中心這個橋弄好以後,我跟你講公關客滿多的,遊客中心很重要所以這個遊客中心到目前為止,工程還停滯所以就是說缺工缺料 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7229.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7248.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
交通部在這部分能夠協助的,我也當然執行過行政院公共工程委員會,請他們多協助所以部長你答應我可不可以,有沒有問題?盡量會協助,我們也希望能夠加速請你的停車場拜託好不好,交代公安署動作快一點還有彈後橋,大橋橋當然是營建署的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7254.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7263.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我想其他的就等交通委員會考察的時候,請部長多做一些功課,對馬祖的問題尤其馬祖大橋,我昨天也打電話給部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7265.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7291.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
現在我因為錢的問題啊其實也不多部長是不是能夠請世紀公司能夠做一些再精算一次好不好再精算一次因為我問過陳商啊標金門大學的王董我先邀標嘛不一定是他啊他起碼三百億他可以做啊他還有錢賺那天周院長答覆我要三百八十幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7292.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7305.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
有沒有算錯了我不知道當然我們都不是專家這個我去瞭解一下我去問一些比較專業的下一次我在質詢的時候我想請部長也回答我一些問題謝謝部長你辛苦了謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7309.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7331.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
好 謝謝我們陳寫生委員的執行那特別跟各位報告我們跟委員會報告廖先祥委員執行完畢我們就休息十分鐘那何新淳委員執行完畢我們就處理臨時動議那現在請何新淳委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7338.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7342.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
謝謝郭城 趙偉 我們請陳部長以及民行局何局長趙偉 部長要跟你行禮來 部長還有何局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7358.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7362.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
部長好今天我還是要就較於有關台中機場跟高鐵的問題我先就台中機場的問題再來確認一下因為可能局長之前有口頭報告過我們也側面得知台中機場要增加新的航線 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7377.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7403.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那我雖然也開過協調會有聽到局長口頭上的說法那也看到有部分媒體的說法但是呢我還是要再確認一下因為部長這很重要喔我們現在這個虎航到底要開的這個新的航線不管是韓國的濟州島或者是日本的名古屋那到目前為止喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7404.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7410.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我們上網去看虎航還沒有正式公佈也還沒有公告那也還沒有開賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7412.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7436.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以呢我因為過去曾經有過不太好的紀錄就是公告了之後但是還是沒飛那所以我還是要再確認一下我為中部的鄉親要爭取這個新的航線到底有沒有確定部長報告委員這個新的航線有確定現在虎航已經提出班表那目前民航局只要一審核過了他們就可以開始開賣民航局什麼時候會審核過應該是很快吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7442.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7469.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
一個禮拜之內會審核通過應該一個禮拜之內就會審核通過所以這兩條新增的航線是確定的這個是確定的那是包機還是定期航班報告委員這個是定期航班是定期航班那我希望拜託民航局這邊再督促第一個我們非常高興樂觀騎乘有新的航線增加直飛韓國濟州島跟日本的名古屋而且不是包機是定期航班 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7470.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7493.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
所以一個禮拜之內拜託民航局儘速來審定這個班表趕快請虎航公布好不好 公告好不好好 這個我們一個禮拜之內趕快一個禮拜之內 那我不希望有任何其他的一個突發狀況這是第一個第二個 既然我們新增航線那我一直在講究的 講求的就是台中機場的設施設備跟服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7498.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7522.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
董事長請回那部長你也跟我去考察過這個台中機場我想你應該走了好幾次了而且上次你也有承諾包括跟民航局何局長也都承諾對於這個台中航站的這個未來的擴充的一個計畫不用等到2040那我們要做調整希望能夠在這個競速的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7524.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7546.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
階段性可以有擴增的一個計畫那局長也告訴我正在調整對不對局長向委員報告有關這個就是有關台中機場的擴充的部分如果是屬於未來的第三航廈的部分那我們在整體規劃裡面會去做這樣的一個處理去規劃以往規劃是在既有的航廈這個戰區範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7549.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7563.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那我們認為這個台中機場的運量跟相關的接駁的設施應該在做重新的思考所以後來我們就建議就是說我們會跟顧問公司來討論如何在楊溪區的部分部分空間來做相關的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7564.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7588.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
部長那請你也要全力支持也要全力督促他們及早把這個規劃趕快的來做報告因為上次你有親自承諾過那我們希望的台中機場要擴大服務除了第三航道之外那部分的這個站體的這個相關的服務設施跟動線我們都希望藉由擴充可以來做最大的改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7588.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7613.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
第二個那如果在現在的這個擴大航站的規劃還沒出來之前就既有現有的航站的這本體如何的去提升跟改善它的動線我覺得這也是很重要我之前去考察謝謝次長跟這個局長陪同也做了部分我知道包括這個e-gate這樣子的一個這個數位通關有增加那 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7614.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7640.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
行李的這個動線也稍作調整但是我還必須提醒局長我們還是在目前看起來我們中部鄉親使用台中機場還是有一些怨言包括行李的一個動線還是需要再改進那包括了這個檢疫的這個X光機造成的這個湧射那延誤了大家取行李的時間那延誤了這個可以離開的時間這個我相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7644.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7655.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們在既有的這個設施設備這樣子的一個場域裡面是不是請局長再要求再檢討再規劃的改善的更好可以嗎 局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7656.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7681.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
跟委員報告確實陳萌委員的之前的質詢跟提醒那雖然我們今年台中站1月有開過會那主要針對的就是有關朱如溫的部分的檢疫的一個動線所以造成那個空間確實有比較擁擠最近我們也台中站也會再來跟這個航空站的部分相關的單位防檢疫啦這個單位來討論看看如何做相關的再如何精進好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7682.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7696.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那我也請部長再關注一件事我首先先謝謝因為部長主導而且承諾也已經完成了這個所謂的機場的這個聯外交通的那個information那個旅客中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7697.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7716.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
能夠部分的解決國際旅客來到台中機場往市區往台中其他區域的一些接駁問題但是那還是局部我在今天的提案裡面有提到我們希望交通部趕快跟台中市政府再一次的來好好的討論溝通我們機場連外的大眾運輸系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7722.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7736.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
捷運局限還沒有成行之前那公車或者是shuttle bus可能是我們現在可以做的那是不是可以在等一下的提案裡面我相信部長一定會全力支持 局長也會支持吧是 這個會支持希望做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7737.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7763.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那希望我們趕快來盤點 趕快做好 也要求地方政府一起來合作那航空站如果可以大幅的改善 我相信這個服務台中的鄉親 中部的鄉親會更多那接著除了機場之外 台中最重要的一個運輸交通的一個樞紐就是高鐵那我想部長也看過好幾次 你每天幾乎每個禮拜要搭高鐵嘛 對不對所以你也最了解周遭的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7764.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7791.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
交通的問題 何局長請回沒關係謝謝你那我就請部長真的是我們好好的來想辦法跟地方合作來解決我在去年10月14號有提案成立這個台中高鐵周邊的交通專案小組那也成立了我謝謝我們楊局長跟台中市政府密切的做溝通那但是我現在要提醒的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7792.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7818.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我們雖然專案小組到目前為止去年10月成立到現在開會了三次那也提出了一些對周邊交通的建議但是呢我幫你再整理了一下我要再仔細的看了一下當然我們該補助給地方政府的我也全力支持跟同意但是呢以目前提出的這個改善規劃的建議裡面我們發現大部分都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7818.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7837.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
局限在導入的車流的一個疏解的一個規劃而在整體的一個導出的這個車流的規劃目前還沒有看到局長你的專業你應該知道我在講什麼整個高鐵的特區裡面這個周遭的交通目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7838.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7866.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我們看到這個專案小組提到了不管是國道銜接高鐵特區或是74號線的閘道的拓寬或者是其他都是在作為車流要進入高鐵的一個交通的改善那但是如果就整體未來那個所謂的亞洲最大的shopping mall要在明年年底要完成如果我們要因應的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7867.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7895.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我想周遭的整個交通如何的在短時間內可以導出分散車流這個是最重要的這也一定要思考進去的所以我希望未來在這個專案小組在一次的討論的時候我請交通部能夠基於我們的專業還有能夠跟地方政府提醒有些對於平面的連外道路的一個全盤的思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7897.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7916.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
跟解方也要能夠尋求如何解決那才能夠一次到位啦這個我想楊局長應該也討論過很多次了部長自己本身是台中人也曾經是在地的民意代表你更清楚我在說什麼第一個除了我們高速公路快速道路的解方之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7917.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7945.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
平面道路裡面只要涉及到我們鐵道局或是高鐵的土地我們一定沒有問題嘛一定願意提供嘛中央這邊一定全力配合一定全力配合嘛對不對是那所以呢我們希望未來台中市政府在專案小組裡面如果能夠更積極的提供這個相關的這個不管是平面道路的一個打通計畫或拓寬計畫當然我也希望未來交通部也要支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7947.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7967.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
也會支持吧 對不對所以不管是在公路系統還有快速道路的這個高速公路的這個系統或者是平面道路的打通跟拓寬未來需要中央的預算來支持所以也請部長一定要承諾支持如果是可以做的狀況底下交通部一定會全力支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7968.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7982.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
當然當然是要經過評估一定可以做的當然就要支持了好不好好再拜託部長這個很重要好不好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝何新淳委員現在我們處理臨時提案請議事人員宣讀一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7989.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8019.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
臨時提案一鑒於台鐵所屬車站停車場多委託民間業者經營然事務上旅船停車費用費率提高的爭議影響民眾通勤意願原要求交通部及鐵道局督導國營台鐵鐵路股份有限公司與委外業者簽訂停車場租賃契約時應明定費率上限及調整機制提案人委員廖先祥等 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8021.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8043.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
臨時提案二台中海線居民每日通勤需求相當迫切原此要求交通部於台鐵海線雙軌化建設完工之前針對台中大甲子彰化子海線路段增加台鐵班次增加班次以因應台中海線居民之交通需求提案人委員蔡其昌等 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8045.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8073.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
因此提案三交通部與台中市政府共同組成台中高鐵周邊交通專案小組但前項現有之討論多以車流進入台中烏日高鐵站周邊自規劃為主未建有規劃離開該區之車流疏解方案故請交通部建樹與台中市政府溝通納入其能階段性解決台中烏日高鐵站周邊交通 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8074.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8099.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
問題提案人委員何欣淳等議事提案四台中機場航線建徵搭乘旅客日艦增加相對服務設施需求意見增加原建起民航局競數與內政部移民署農業部房檢署等相關單位協調提升台中機場軟硬體服務與改善動性規劃提案人委員何欣淳等 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8100.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8130.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
民事提案五台中機場擁有國際及國內航線國內外旅客眾多然公共運輸仍有待加強處請交通部積極推動台灣號型台中機場快捷線規劃易應與台中市政府研議機場接駁公車班次與路線配套規劃以充分因應台中機場國內外旅客公共運輸接駁之需要提案人委員何新淳等 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8132.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8153.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
領事提案六要求交通部應針對高鐵延伸宜蘭相關路線行經之鄉市鎮舉辦公聽會收集民間意見及想法並做後續溝通與說明找尋共識之機會提案人委員林國成吳宗憲等宣布完畢好 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8156.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8177.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
各位來因為節省時間那我現在請教第一案第一案我們行政單位有沒有意見報召委我這邊是不是建議一下啦齁這個案子是廖委員提出來的齁那裡面大概跟鐵道局沒有關係齁所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8184.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8197.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
來 請說所以那個第三行後面交通部及鐵道局及鐵道局拿掉因為跟鐵道局沒有關係然後在第四行的最後一段就是與停車場這個主任企業前面加個言義兩個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8199.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8228.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那接下來到倒數第二行鐵道局及鐵道局拿掉啦這個應該沒有關係然後督導國營台灣鐵路股份有限公司研議於我愛業者加個研議兩個字以上報告那這部分剛剛有跟那個廖委員報告好那個廖委員同意嗎好那第一案的話就是修正修正通過好不好來好接下來第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8229.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8245.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
第二案 人民報告第二案因為我們的海線目前確實它的路線比較緊一點不過我想這個蔡委員所提到的部分我們想我們這邊是不是做個文字上的一個修正倒數第三行 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8246.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8274.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
鐵道局目前辦理中午規劃中那個招標目前他其實是在辦理規劃啦齁朱惠中這個招標拿掉然後後面倒數第二行台中的海線的這個路段啦其再增加幾個次其可再增加台鐵班次然後提出評估報告應應台中海線居民的交通需求好那個蔡副院長同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8277.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8299.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
謝謝主席 基本上我不會反對啦但是我必須要說明一下啦就是說我想那個部長過去也在海線當議員所以他也很了解這個海線鄉親長期要解決這個南下北上或者往高鐵新路日站的班次的需求需要靠雙軌化 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8300.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8319.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以這件事情為什麼這麼多年來我們積極在推動海線能夠加速雙軌化那這個已經進入了程序所以謝謝交通部但是呢短期啊我們還是要想出解決的方法也就是說短期怎麼樣去增加南下或北上 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8320.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8345.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
的車次或者到這個新烏日站的車次我希望這個鐵路單位啊能夠趕快做一個報告怎麼樣再去調整可以增加班次我想這個是大家海線鄉親的等待跟需求那我等一下質詢的時候我也會來跟部長再討論一下好謝謝好謝謝我蔡副院長來那我們這個這個部分就是修正通過來接下來第三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8350.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8376.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
來第三案那個行政機關有沒有意見沒有意見沒有意見沒有意見遵照辦理遵照辦理好遵照辦理那我們就照案通過來接下來第十案行政機關這邊沒有意見照案辦理好照案辦理來那我們就照案通過來接下來第五案行政單位一樣我們會遵照辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8377.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8404.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
好遵照辦理來那我們就照案通過接下來第六案那個主席好來那個4跟5跟機場都有關係啦那本席喔這個新存委員跟他我跟新存委員一起提案其實主要還是要說明一下這個4跟5啊因為這個班我們不斷的在要求增加這個航線啊航點 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8405.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8420.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
但是硬體的跟上必須要快速因為自從那一天機場現場出現混亂的時候我也跟那個張主任 航空站的張主任反應過那事實上他今天也正在 此刻他也正在協調相關動線的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8423.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8450.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那這個要可能不只交通部啦因為這裡面涵蓋檢疫我們對於編防的這個檢疫很重要那這個檢疫喔是這個問題的關鍵所以我希望啊部裡面那個部長能夠趕快召集啊這個防檢單位是不是就動線跟分流因為長期我們都知道這跟海線鐵路是一樣長期他需要新的Terminal新的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8450.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8470.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
航廈的這個新建這個我們都清楚但因為這個時候中部地區出國經商旅遊的這個需求然後包括我們很多外籍的移工的需求所以中部地區的航線航點的需求恐怕沒辦法等到你Terminal蓋好 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8471.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8495.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
所以短期你怎麼去做分流恐怕這不是張主任一個人所能夠解決的更不是民航局所能夠解決的所以警部裡面應該要緊述就這個短期怎麼去把它做分流否則我們還在爭取新的航點啦台中還要飛日本飛韓國飛更多的地方那未來每一班都卡住了雖然啦卡住還是比去台北快啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8496.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8509.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
雖然但是畢竟他作為一個國際機場全部卡在那裡這個也不像話那再來他的時段通常是集中的也就是說他可能平常譬如說很早很晚的時候沒有什麼班機但 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8511.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8540.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
他會在某幾個小時當中密集的進跟出所以是不是要針對密集的時間點怎麼樣請相關單位支援如果人力不足請他在那個時間點支援那第二個怎麼樣去分流也就是來自於非疫區的地方跟疫區的地方就像桃園也是用這樣的概念那怎麼去分流所以我的意思要補充就是要把這個事情要跟大家講清楚為什麼跟新屬委員要提這些案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8541.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8553.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
其實都是要讓機場的效率能夠更加的去提升接駁車的問題你們要積極跟市府來溝通照理說這個是市府 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8553.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8573.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
要趕快去做的啦那已經講很多遍也拜託很多議員去講了也沒有什麼效果所以拜託交通部趕快出面去協調一下市政府到底市政府要不要開不開的話如果都沒有作為那中央我們可以怎麼樣去協助旅客做這個大眾運輸輸運的這個事情我做這樣補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8576.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8601.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那個四案跟五案啦就是蔡副院長他們提案人啊所補充的就請行政單位也要把它列入這個紀錄列入這個參考好不好 這個我們列入參考並且我們會跟那個其他的部會我們發布會包含內政部包含農業部針對機場的這個通關的順序跟速度我們會來加強好來來接下來第六案第六案來行政單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8603.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8623.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
鐵道局報告一下 這個案子我們是建議因為倒數第二行提到就延伸一覽相關路線行經之相似證 舉辦公聽會因為公聽會的程序相對來說是法定上的這樣的一個要求對於環評的作業 我們目標的期程可能會產生一些影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8624.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8643.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那是不是可以建議修正為宜蘭相關路線加強地方溝通說明讓我們在跟地方溝通上面有一定的談心跟做法我想剛剛有跟委員報告委員可能沒有辦法來接受那我還是要先做這樣的一個報告跟說明再請各位委員來指教跟討論 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8647.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8672.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那這個部分我首先先謝謝行政機關因為這個部分呢其實地方上面包括宜蘭的議會而且他們議會是不分藍綠的議員都希望是召開公聽會當然我知道公聽會跟一般討論會他在程序上面有非常大的不同那這部分我在剛剛在過來之前我有再跟宜蘭那邊確認一下他們還是地方上的想法還是希望說以公聽會的方式來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8672.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8686.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
好那這部分我想先表達所以這部分我還是希望說我們還是因為跟地方影響最大那我還是這邊是要求說以供聽會的方式來做好謝謝來那個楊局長來楊局長部長這個辦供聽會有損害什麼東西嗎應該沒有吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8693.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8710.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
報告委員這個辦公廳會有它法定的程序啦如果說要用公廳會的話其實交通建設是這樣大家都希望能夠趕快做那不過如果這個開下去的話以後可能每一條交通建設大家各鄉鎮市都會想要開公廳會 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8711.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8737.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那如果這樣開下去我想台灣的交通的建設的速度可能大家要思考一下是不是有可能用說明會的方式謝部長跟部長報告一下因為想說因為高鐵這個東西它影響非常大包括農地的割裂使用那個灌溉水路的割裂還有高鐵沿線的進建等等的問題所以對於地方它影響很大所以我剛才跟各位報告說地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8738.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8760.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
他們的議會是不分藍綠要求要召開這個公聽會那當然我們從台北看宜蘭我會覺得說你們就趕快同意就好了但是在宜蘭當地的人他們的當地是有他們當地的疑慮我想說高鐵我們已經拖了那麼久那是不是還是要讓他們多表達一些意見因為目前是有開過一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8761.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8780.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
報告委員表達意見有很多種方式可不可以不要用公聽會我們用說明會或者是討論會的方式要讓他們表達是沒問題啦而且我們之後環評環評的過程當中他們也還可以表達意見這部分我跟部長報告一下所以我剛剛在來之前那我也是跟那邊抽糞的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8780.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8797.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
就是因為我知道 供聽會跟說明會 它兩個有一些不同嘛程序上面也有不同 那我也有跟他們提 但是他們還是堅持說希望要有供聽會那至少我在這邊 我把這個事情 我要一定要把地方的意見反映到中央來這是我的責任 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8798.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8813.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那個那個部長還有還有局長因為我在想是不是這樣好不好也不要去爭論這個啊公聽會當然是比較正式的啊依依法有機的東西我是不是建議這樣稍微修改一下當地召開公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8815.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8837.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
旁邊刮鬍或說明會這樣到時候再來協商用這種方式可能也比較彈性那如果大家溝通結果認為是公聽會你們也認為同意那刮鬍這樣就變成兩種都可以做這個案子應該是比較好處理謝謝召委可不可以不要刮鬍就公聽會或說明會 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8838.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8854.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
好 那個鍾縣委員你的認為呢這我就說我剛剛有說因為這件事情非同小說所以我剛在過來的時候我還在跟宜蘭那邊確認那這目前我們是我跟他們確認嘛他們就一定要求要開公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8855.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8883.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那我剛好說了 其實宮廷會跟說明會其實它確實有一個差距而且它會讓整個程序會有delay這個我都能夠理解但是他們希望說開宮廷會那如果你們 我們現在先做我是做這樣的要求那如果你們自己有辦法在地方上面大家取得一個共識那當然大家以後有不一樣的想法我們當然我們可以大概再來討論但至少目前為止我跟他們溝通的結果就是大家都希望說要以宮廷會為唯一的選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8885.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8907.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
對 我這邊我就是提出 因為這是我的提案 那我就做這樣的要求 謝謝我是不是可以來建議一下這個我們當然 這個重大建設高鐵要延伸到宜蘭我想這個是大家期待 也幾乎大家都會覺得這是一件好事因為是一個重大的交通建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8908.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8937.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那當然過程當中必須要尊重在地鄉親的意見這也是未來在不管設計規劃跟甚至在動工之前包括環評也一定要的必要的這個程序就是召開公聽會但是呢以吳委員現在提的這個案子是我們交通委員會的臨時提案那表示你的態度立場也沒有錯但是呢最終我認為還是要依照行政程序法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8937.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8955.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
所有的行政程序該怎麼走就怎麼走是不是可以我建議就是在這個體驗裡面你的倒數第三行是要求那是不是可以說要求交通部研議或者是建議交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8960.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8985.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
其實剛剛官員都有講 因為剛剛官員都有跟我講說這個利用可不可以改成其他的用語那我想說你們剛剛說 你剛剛就是那個局長跟我講的這些部分我在來之前我也都有跟地方去講是不是可以有這些不同的想法那我們這邊還是堅持我這邊的提案啦因為我很少對於提案堅持那我這邊還是堅持我的提案 好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8988.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8989.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
來來來 蔡副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8993.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9021.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
其實這個大家沒有什麼意見不同啦大家都希望重大公共建設交通建設可以跟地方溝通啦但今天麻煩就是因為那個地方人士沒有來啦所以也不知道地方人士他的具體的想望就是說他開公聽會也好或者他希望加強溝通他到底期待的是宜蘭的高鐵快建好還是慢建好這個我們不大了解地方人士的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9022.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9051.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那由吳委員來代表地方人士表達這個意見就是其實我聽到的只有一個就是尊重要尊重地方的聲音啊那我個人是覺得主席剛剛那個提案反而可能會比較好為什麼因為裡面直接寫公聽會或說明會那表示說未來如果地方人士交通部下去了去議會譬如說剛剛吳委員提到宜蘭縣議會去宜蘭縣議會 宜蘭縣議會不分黨派大家都說要公聽會那 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9052.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9081.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
根據這個決議可以開那如果大家聽完交通部的說明解釋大家覺得說不用啦說明會就好了那這個根據這個臨時提案他也可以做所以我的意思是說也沒有忤逆這個吳委員的意思就是說也有地方嘛因為地方他覺得要開公聽會那交通部就依照這個臨時決議也是要開啊那如果地方覺得說不用啊說明會就好聽你們說話這樣也可以說明會也行也不一定說一定要堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9082.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9103.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
公聽會所以回歸最後還是讓交通部跟地方人士溝通完之後到底看要公聽會還是要說明會所以我倒覺得主席的做法比較有空間跟彈性好 謝謝蔡委員那我大概了解一下但是如果要這樣那是不是至少先跟議會的那些藍綠議員先溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9105.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9133.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
好嗎 就是我覺得可以 我就說我自己的提案其實我常都沒有很堅持但是因為他們的要求是公聽會但是我也可以接受因為我也跟他們我剛來之前我也跟他們溝通嘛那如果這樣是不是公聽會你就是要 你要就是說或那個說明會或是括號說明會但是你前面至少你要先跟議會那裡溝通完畢取得他們的共識我們如果有變更我是沒有意見好不好那個盧明哲委員 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9135.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9164.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我這邊介意一下啦那是不是能夠加一段這個文字就可以了那這邊一樣是倒數第二行嘛路線行政之鄉鎮市舉辦公聽會或說明會然後逗點會議形式由交通部與地方政府議會討論定之然後議收集就接著嘛收集地方名好不好就是說看地方實際的需求這樣好不好來行政單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9166.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9170.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這樣好不好就地方溝通以後好不好那個吳委員那個吳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9175.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9202.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那個中縣中縣委員這樣可以不可以就是溝通以後那地方認為說說明會啊他們也同意那兩個主席這沒有問題就是我我希望說你還是要重視地方人的意見就這樣了好那這樣好不好現在部長這裡沒有問題吧就加上剛才魯明哲委員的修正好不好好好那我們這個這個第六案就是修正通過好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9203.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9218.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好 謝謝大家 來 接下來我們請陳樹業委員執行喔 還有 稍稍等稍等 好臨時提案處理完畢 如有委員對上述的提案補簽列入記錄 並刊登公報那現在請陳樹業委員來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9235.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9239.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
謝謝主席 請主席邀請部長還有吳代理董事長陳部長還有我們吳代理董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9251.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9280.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
委員好部長早因為今天委會安排的議題就是有關鐵路運營安全事件的檢討所以本席還是針對有關台鐵的營運安全再跟部長還有我們的吳代理董事長來進行討論雖然這都已經老生常談了可是我覺得說真的好像談到我不曉得說是不是都麻痺了我覺得這個真的是一個很嚴重的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9280.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9308.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
因為我們看到從去年2024年12月19號這個潮州基地發生了這個就是新型的自強號在檢修的時候撞上指衝擋一直到今年就是就這個月4月20號還發生了這個就是進行連掛作業的時候為停車撞上新自強號這樣子短短不到5個月的時間就發生了七件的這個吊車事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9309.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9330.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
而且這個吊車事故都是人為因素嘛都是人為的一個因素那我們再來看一下就是一樣從今年1月5號就是這個司機員錯認位置所以導致這個車子最後一車沒有進月台一直到也是這個月份4月24號這樣子四個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9334.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9350.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
就發生了七件的停車不當的事件那這幾件還有過站不停的三件所以這樣子的停車不當的事件也是人為的因素所造成的所以我覺得這狀況部長你覺得嚴不嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9353.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9374.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
報告委員,就數據上來看我認為是嚴重的,而且一般的民眾也覺得會有不安的感覺,所以這個部分我們要趕快來改善,並且要趕快來做改革的行為。所以我覺得說這樣子的一個事故的頻繁,我覺得真的就好像是不是都讓台鐵的人都覺得見怪不怪了,好像都麻痺了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9375.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9400.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
包委員這就是我們擔心的就是說我們的員工我們的同仁有沒有照SOP在進行的這件事我們接下來會強烈的要求並且對於沒有照SOP來做工作的執行的時候我們會做比較嚴厲的懲處這是一方面那二方面整體的改革方案我也已經拜託台鐵公司在做準備包含耗製的部分的安全要怎麼樣加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9401.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9415.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
包含我們針對駕駛員的這個紀律的約束我們該怎麼做加強這個部分我們目前整包都在討論那我們希望趕快做這個改革的這個期程是好因為我們回想就是在台鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9416.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9440.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
可以在最近幾年就是去年這樣子前年就是可以這樣加速的一個公司化也是因為台鐵發生了這個重大的一個事故之後在社會的一個期待跟壓力之下所以才加速了這個公司化那當初在公司化的時候台鐵自己喊的口號也是台鐵改革從安全開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9442.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9460.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我們也是希望就是說我們加速這個台鐵公司化的期待也是希望台鐵在這個安全的一個部分能夠強化然後能夠增加民眾的一個信心可是這樣子超過一年的時間我們覺得說真的喪失信心了 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9461.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9481.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
所以到底要怎樣來落實這個改革剛剛部長講的我是覺得說我應該還要再去思考到底是什麼原因造成我們的司機也好或者是調度員也好人偽事故的疏失 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9482.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9496.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
因為我覺得說懲處也不是唯一的一個辦法要去了解什麼原因造成他們有這樣子發生這樣一個疏失是壓力過大還是這個勞力不均等等造成的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9498.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9524.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
一個結果我覺得應該從源頭去找出來原因之後去做一個調整不然的話如果說一味的說要加強這個懲處我覺得這可能又造成他們更大的壓力懲處是最後啦對前面其實該加強的是什麼是我們的員工的教育訓練對做事情要照SOP因為我們目前就每一個案件看起來很多都是因為員工並沒有照該規定的SOP下去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9524.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9548.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那所以這個部分我們要要求他們必須要照SOP下去做懲處是最後如果你真的沒有照SOP我只好懲處你那前面除了SOP的這個教育訓練之外我們也會加強就是說在駕駛員的訓練之外就是說針對駕駛員因為運安會其實在五六年前也有要求過我們希望在駕駛室裡面有影音的安全輔助系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9549.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9576.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那這個部分我們也在今年度一定會來推進這個進程一定要做到運安會對我們的要求這個部分我們一定要做到所以整體的改革的方案目前台鐵正在研擬不只是駕駛室也不只是教育訓練或者是說SOP的執行跟落實那另外針對硬體的部分的改革我們也目前正在進行當中跟委員報告對 是 我也有看到新聞報導就是有關月台 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9576.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9605.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
安全門的加強也都在做剛剛部長講到說SOP要落實就是說目前我們有關這個安全營運的各個面向的安全的SOP都有確實有訂好了嗎訂好這樣子的SOP都有報告委員其實SOP一直都有現在的問題是在於說我們的同仁沒有依照SOP的規定下去做沒有按照規定去做那有沒有去了解為什麼沒有按照規定去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9606.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9624.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
這個是不是要去要先去找出原因啦不然如果說我們高層我們營運的那個層級定了SOP然後結果基層做不到是做不到還是不會做要去了解一個原因是我跟委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9625.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9655.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
我跟委員報告齁 剛提到的SOP真的都是有確實有 我以4月20號這個對 4月20號這個案件來講因為會大概現在也進入要調查了齁那我們初步其實我們內部有先了解過齁4月20號那個他本來應該要 他是要連結他應該要一度停車但是他沒有依照SOP一度停車我們有訪問他的 去了解訪問他的那到底怎麼回事那他給我們答案說 他就恍神了 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9655.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9680.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
恍神那是因為睡眠不足還是是壓力太大倒不是講對他就講說啊大概因為按推的大概就講說是家裡的一些因素造成他的一些恍神後面我們還是會配合應安會可以相加然後才去確認那剛剛部長提到的SOP我們是跟他講就是在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9681.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9707.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
你如果有問題應該要提出來如果跟你講你還沒有這樣做的話那如果再出事我們真的就是一定要嚴懲這我覺得是最後手段你拿出來官方就變成拉五桿了啦對當然就是陳屬是最後手段那本席要強調就是說要去了解原因從源頭去解決啦那當然就是有關員工的心理輔導或者是家庭的一些因素可能也要多加關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9708.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9726.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
才會避免一些這樣子的狀況發生另外當然就是說我們公司化之後也要靠多元的一個經營來希望也能夠轉虧為盈我們看到目前我們台鐵推出的觀光列車 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9727.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9752.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
是頗受好評的那收益應該不錯吳代理董事長您的瞭解這幾個都很搶手確實都很搶手那本席在這邊是不是可以建議我們台鐵規劃一下就是每年就是春天就是三月份左右我們二水站這個鐵軌沿線的花旗幕盛開的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9753.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9779.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這個景色可以媲美這個日本的這個景色非常的漂亮然後也吸引了很多的遊客所以是不是可以明年規劃讓我們的這個山南號可以行駛這個就是經過這個停靠二水火車站跟我們報告剛提到這些觀光列車有些它有行駛區域性的關係環島之星大概二水這邊沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9781.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9800.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那以剛剛那個委員所提到的三藍號的部分目前我們現在維二的廠商我據了解他們已經先前排到今年的十月了今年的十月都已經排定了所以這個部分我想我們再來跟他協商看看看是不是可以把這部分把它放進來這個我們待會再跟這個廠商再協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9802.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9825.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
對 我想應該還有 還可以去因為還有時間嘛 排到十月而已明年 這因為花季是明年三月啦我們來努力 我們來跟他們協調好 因為我們也希望就是說 結合這樣子的一個亮點然後推銷我們在地的觀光啦因為這個也是要互相結合的是是是好 那謝謝部長跟謝謝吳代理謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9827.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9838.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
好 謝謝陳樹葉委員特別報告廖先祥委員執行完畢休息十分鐘那現在請廖先祥委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9847.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9857.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
好 謝謝主席喔 麻煩邀請我們陳部長好 交通部陳部長我們這個吳次長 代理董事長然後我們運營會林主委吳代董事長 還有林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9869.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9883.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
上次運安會的主委來的時候大概有提到一些這個運安報告的缺失的檢討然後那包括這個無論是這個一年就是所有列管案件最多的是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9885 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9901.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這個港務局嘛港務相關的那另外一部分三年以上的最多的也是我們的台鐵公司就是列管的缺失的案件那都是在部長的麾下那既然有這麼多的改善的缺失缺失要改善那都在部長這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9902.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9931.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
沒有辦法改善就是說可能包括台鐵的三年內有五件嘛超過三年 列管超過三年的那這部分只有兩個可能嘛第一個就是我們慾安會提出的報告這個業務機關自愛難行那第二個那就是業務機關面對慾安會的一個檢討報告他們執行不力啦那部長大概這個針對我們先講針對台鐵的啦超過三年的部分有五件你們實際上遇到的困難大概是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9932.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9952.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
報告委員是運安會的問題還是執行業務的部分運安會的要求我目前為止並沒有聽到部內所屬機關說有所以運安會的檢討都是合理的目前的檢討的狀況其實我知道每個案子都在進行當中有一些確實還沒有完成那沒有完成有個別的原因每個案子不一樣每個案子不一樣所以有五件啦因為有一些我看 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9952.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9977.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
有五件目前還在列管當中那可能兩件跟第三代CDC的採購有關那有的跟新車來組織的調整有關或者是耗資系統的檢測等等那沒關係我們今天就具體的針對這五項已經列管超過三年的缺失部長在這邊能不能具體的承諾這五項缺失可以在多久的時間內完成改善台鐵這邊有沒有辦法針對這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9981.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10004.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
剛提到應安會的建議其實從109到113年他總共大概有建議的110個分項台鐵的部分其實已經完成了99個分項你說還剩下11個分項那11個分項我們後面大概目前這樣規劃剛提到應安會的部分他的要求是這樣你如果說有涉及到所謂硬體的部分你硬體必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10005.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10032.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這個發包以後你才可以解除那如果是軟體部分你必須要完成之後然後看到成效覺得還不錯他才會他才會解除裂管所以他們的他們的裂管其實是非常的嚴謹那剛剛提到包括CDC這些的問題我想我們剩下11個分項我們會在今年我們會再完成4個分項今年完成4個分項那明年可以再分成再兩個分項把它完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10033.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10050.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那後面當然CTC的部分我們這個部分應該會在今年我們就來發包CTC今年就能夠啊第三代CTC今年就完成發包所以你剛剛 再重複一遍總共11個分項嘛那有5個分項是列管超過3年嘛對不對那今年完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10051.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10072.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
今年完成四項那115我們會完成兩項那還有剩下的五項是哪部分的問題會導致我們可能還需要更多的時間來調整就剛剛講了有些是我們整個制度上的問題那些可能要稍微晚一點我想這個設計的部分我們會盡早的把它完成我們現在這個部分大概都有列管來做啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10073.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10092.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
就像剛剛講的那個影音設備部分其實剛剛部長也特別講了我們是一定要往前走因為像我們預案會剛剛那個市長也有說就是提出來的並不是說硬體採購完成了才叫做解列嘛而是說發包了之後這個他們知道你們已經在做了之後就他們就也沒有說一定要看到結束嘛對不對那 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10092.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10103.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
那針對這個市長剛才說的這個一年內四項嘛明年兩項那部長你能不能針對11項你的目標你的目標11項要在幾年內讓運安會完成解列 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10108.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10127.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
報告委員 我們希望在116年以前全部都可以完成好 116年底116年116年底之前 運安會的這11項的列管的缺失我們都可以再完成解除列管對 沒錯好 那謝謝好 那另外 這個部長 跟您也算是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10129.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10152.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那個台鐵可能台鐵公司留下來那我們高鐵也麻煩一下就是我最近我最近這個有在大家都有在看我們的影集那Netflix最近有一個影集叫做新幹線驚爆倒數我不知道部長有沒有看過我前兩天才看你有看嗎有看好那我們可以聊一下那包括柯南這柯南的電影之前有一個這個什麼這個列車炸彈的一些相關的議題其實大家都說現實生活有時候總是比電影來的來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10159.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10174.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
來的這個更為讓人家覺得這個就是更為誇張啦就是電影情節現實生活常常會比電影情節更為誇張那你也知道這個可能這兩部電影裡面的情節就是說在列車上面裝炸彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10176.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10192.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
要求列車要在100公里以上的速度才不會爆炸假設我們今天交通部或是鐵道公司或是高鐵也接收到類似的警告說我們從南港站發車的列車到左營 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10195.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10207.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
他的速度不能夠低於 時速100公里那否則他會被爆炸 那當然他也提出一些儲金的要求那我們這個交通部或是鐵道公司 高鐵公司會做怎樣的一個相對應 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10208.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10231.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
報告委員 這個算是關鍵基礎設施啦所以他的安全性的問題其實也牽涉到整個國安系統 大家也都很關心那針對 如果是有類似啦 電影情節裡面第一個原則性的問題 會不會跟恐怖份子做交涉我們國家的制度會跟恐怖份子做交涉嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10232.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10257.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這個要由國安單位去做判斷我們有一個國家安全辦公室當發生這樣的事情我們會馬上通報國家安全辦公室由他們來做判斷這不是由交通部這邊能夠做判斷所以你們不會決定說要不要交涉那假設要營救就是不交涉的情況下那接下來就是營救我們會怎樣的來不只我們交通部會怎樣跨機關的來做一些經濟處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10260.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10272.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
緊急處置這個我們有演練過嗎我們的台鐵相關的一些演練也都有針對恐怖攻擊來做一個演練那國安辦公室也會來參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10273.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10290.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那我們有辦法講具體一點啦具體一點對我們有這樣的一個劇本劇本那像在國家安全辦公室也會指導我們就是怎麼樣來針對如果有一些恐怖事件發生的時候我們來做一個演練他們有一個演練的劇本 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10290.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10305.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那這個部分其實您有看過影片所以大概您也會好奇說他大概劇本怎麼樣然後怎麼因應我在想這個是不是會後有我們再把資料給我們這個鐵案演習的相關劇本其實甚至因為他已經被拍成電影了那有時候大家都知道會有一個模仿效應 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10307.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10322.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這種東西也是有可能發生包括我們2021年的時候我們也曾經發生過就是有這個通報在台鐵上面裝炸彈那當然最後發現是虛驚異常那假設它是真的呢那電影已經演了這麼多那這件事情聽起來也不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10323.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10345.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
做不到的事情聽起來不是做不到的事情那我希望說交通部門也能夠做一些最基本的比如說我剛剛講連看電影的人都會知道說我們要先做的就是維持這個幹線上面的一個疏通嘛你們必須要緊急調度把所有的其他所有的班次都暫停嘛把所有的列車排除在我們的這個幹線上面然後後續才能做一些營救的工作嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10348.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10372.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
是沒有錯其實除了台鐵高鐵其實也都有一些因應的模式所以跟委員報告其實我們這個跟國安單位都有一個很好的一個聯繫因為這個時候第一個我們就是會通報這個國安系統那國安系統的話整下來的話我們在我們這邊的話鐵路警察是第一線跟我們一起在合作的所以我們平常也有去針對這些做一些這種資訊的這種聯繫然後怎麼樣應盡的話其實是我們也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10377.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10381.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
類似的一些砂盤的推演來做但不過像剛才這種情況的話我們也可以繼續的來跟這個國安單位來跟他研究然後我們怎麼來做那實務上在電影裡面出現的他可能有一些營救方式比如說把這個車廂去把它拆解然後再用其他的車廂追上這台列車去把旅客輸運這樣實務上我們做不做得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10403.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10427.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
電影裡面的情節跟實務上我們列車這是不太可能啦不太可能但是我們如果是知道說它是放在哪一個車廂的話那我們當然會把這個前後三個車廂的客人全部都往外挪往其他的車廂挪移這樣所以電影新幹線的情節在實務上比較屬於電影裡面的想像 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10428.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10451.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
好 那沒關係 那後續啦 部長我們就是針對這樣子類似一個恐怖攻擊的一個議題那如果說後續要怎麼來營救我們的旅客好不好 希望能夠做一個檢討跟預演 演練我不是說實際上演練 而是說我們必須要在行政上面去做一些至少要沙盤推演沙盤推演 然後再提供一些資料給我們 以上 好不好 謝謝部長謝謝委員好 謝謝廖先祥委員現在休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10479.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10480.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
謝謝觀看,下次見! |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10494.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10498.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
多點動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10505.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10528.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10530.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10554.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10577.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10581.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10587.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10589.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
中文字幕志愿者 杨茜茜 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10602.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10617.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
今天早上到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10619.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10626.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
謝謝大家收看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10641.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10666.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我們未來應該也會有更多更多的經濟跟建築我們希望早期的經濟上適合建築學會去回回歸讓教育中的教育者可以讓教育者可以讓教育者可以讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10674.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10680.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10682.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10694.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10705.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10722.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
謝謝觀賞 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10724.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10750.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
好,我們來看看這間店的服務吧這間店的服務在幾天之間是有興奮劇的因為我們都在家裡我們都在家裡我們都在家裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10754.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10756.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11060.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11089.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
好 請各位就座好 我們繼續開會現在請林進憲委員執行好 感謝主席本席邀請我們交通部陳部長好 交通部陳部長民航局何局長民航局何局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11098.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11115.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我們民航局其實在2021年行政院有核定一個他們做的計畫叫做2040年我國民用機場整體規劃成果何局長知道吧那時候你還沒有當局長那你知道這個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11117.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11146.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那在這個2040年我國民用機場整體規劃裡面台南機場的定位是所謂核心機場那核心機場裡面做什麼呢他說第一個是國內航線的核心機場之一第二個台南機場要作為南部區域的國際航線的輔助機場但是現在台南機場沒有半條 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11147.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11170.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
國際航線啊 連一條都沒有啦那你要知道 他所謂的南部國際航線的輔助機場他未來就是預期啦 他運量 他那運輸能量啊 明朗局估算啦就是台南機場必須和高雄機場共同達成一年的容量要1500人次以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11171.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11178.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
其實你整個台中喔 台中比中部還要更多如果台南是要輔助高雄小港國際機場那台南現在連一條航線都沒有一條國際航線都沒有這可以嗎同時我們也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11193.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11208.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
高雄的男子科技園區台積電還有台南南科現在國家最重要的半導體高科技的園區都在南部其實高雄那個地方也北高雄其實也比較靠近台南機場 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11209.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11222.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
甚至於台南未來的沙崙科學園區那離台南機場也很近那車程大概十分到十五分鐘所以是不是請我們交通部這裡能夠協助輔導來讓台南的機場可以作為國際航線 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11229.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11243.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
報告委員這個部分我們也希望說能夠有更多的航班能夠飛國際的部分在台南機場來起降那這個部分我昨天剛好跟那個觀光業者大家在座談會的時候其實台南的業者有跟我表示說 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11244.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11271.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
虎航已經有跟他們在商量說未來在台南有沒有可能開國際航線那當然這個部分除了航空公司要配合之外也就是說我們的運量也要有所以觀光業者也應該大家一起配合那目前他們已經有在接洽了我們希望能夠促成這件事大概什麼時候可以促成這個細部的部分我可能還要再詢問一下他們現在已經有開始在討論這件事虎航的高董知道嗎董事長大概什麼時候可以促成 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11274.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11283.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我想我們還是會做一些那個 今年底好不好 今年底讓台南機場可以有 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11285.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11314.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
國際的固定航班可以嗎我們來努力看是由那個虎航或者是那個我們來擔任我們來努力看看我們從包機會先開始啦我們去年已經有20家的國際包機那今年也會有一些國際包機我們包機會先開始那我們希望能夠推到有固定的航班現在幾乎沒有了我給你看旅客書好了來部長台南在2023年還有固定航線的時候那時候飛越南 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11315.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11341.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那一年還有三萬一千位旅客啦去年2024年就是保證你說的包機啦三百三十三個那回去包一台兩台而已啊跟定期航班是有差別的嘛另外啊你台南機場啊我們民航局也把它發包為有免稅商店和商店街你知道嗎免稅是不懂你知道這件事嗎我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11342.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11369.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我不知道你發包這個有什麼意思你連一個國際航線也沒有你發包來招商去做國際航線的美穗店還開闢商店街沒有旅客啊確實要先有需求那這些廠商為什麼會來他認為說你美浪局有答應要去徵求國際航線嘛那現在沒有這些廠商不是很無辜嗎那這個部分也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11370.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11389.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
你都一定要去注意一下啦那對這個廠商你是不是應該要給予前面黃線以前的話那他們怎麼沒有客人根本沒辦法營運啊那租金要不要付給你那個檢免的部分應該是已經在討論了可以輔導檢免嘛對對對這個要檢免他們應該也算是無辜的受害者啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11390.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11415.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那其實在國際航線的檢疫啦還有通關啦進出其實這個都是中央的業務啦那中央其實應該要跟市政府再來做一個密切的聯繫啦剛剛部長也講對了啦你航線拉了以外你要維持下去還是必須要有旅客嘛那這個地方就必須要我們共同來經營來行銷啦我認為以台南的觀光資源應該是非常有條件啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11416.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11432.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我們地方的觀光業者我想他們大家也期待好不好但是重點我們是不是請交通部這裡先來協助我們希望在今年我個人對我們交通部的一個期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11433.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11460.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那我也要求 希望可以啦你們努力 讓年底以前啦 今年底以前台南可以先開闢啊再開闢國際航線好不好讓台南機場成為一個真的南部的國際航線輔助機場嘛讓台民武起死啦好 那局長請回喔 高董喔請問說 我現在在那提的是鐵路啦我們鐵道局在嗎鐵道局在 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11462.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11486.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
楊局長謝謝主席我請局長上次很感謝部長跟我們鐵道局有帶讓在發展台南的那個山南號上次是明日號就明日號來停我們台南 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11487.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11514.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這邊很感謝但我希望啊西部線的觀光列車我請部長看一下山南澳就是短程啦山南澳就是專做它兩個兩個城鎮之間的一個短程你看那西部海岸線全部嶺了台中宜蘭就沒有了你看但是東部有嘛南港宜蘭花蓮池上邦遙到台東部長看得出來吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11516.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11522.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
你看這裡全部沒有啦全部沒有啦那我現在啊希望我們交通部能夠協助啦你要開發這一段啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11534.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11546.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
開發這一段讓山南號專門幾乎是量身訂做一個台南的路段航線這個做得起來我知道你們為什麼不做你們認為說因為這段沒有海景可以看 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11548.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11571.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
是不是 因為這麼大不可以海峰是看海景的 山嵐不用看海景 可以看山也可以第一個 你要看海景到處有啦但這種特殊景觀 別的地方沒有啦 我跟你介紹啦去年英國的一個雜誌 叫Time OutTime Out大概是休息雜誌 它評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11574.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11596.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
台南是台灣唯一入榜的就世界 亞洲 八大最佳旅遊城市台南是台灣唯一入列的台南還名列第四名 甚至超過日本的大阪那觀光署 我們交通部自己觀光署的計算今年1月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11600.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11624.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
旅遊仁慈 全國前兩名的旅遊景點都是台南第一個是鹿兒門聖母廟第二個就是國華友愛商圈所以很多人到台南玩所以如果你這個時候其實鐵路旅遊可以來開發而且這種套裝行程我幫你設計好了你知道台南是一個南北很狹長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11625.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11652.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
的一個城市啦你可以做一個西北去體驗農遊西北是比較農村的地方啦你就在澳北開始啦後面那八角樓啦 鹽水舞廟啦鹽水橋啊新營鐵道文化區啦 新營太子宮這個是賴總統多次都會去上香的地方喔那個地方也是地方的一個非常出名的一個廟宇還有台灣的南蛙產業園區也是在後壁啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11653.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11679.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那你台南在台南 台南再下來中部那就是大麻豆地區啦我們麻豆台天府啦 總爺藝文中心啦麻豆就這都放在那裡啦就古早的港口文化園區啦 蕭榮文化園區啦喔 西港慶安宮啦 嘉麗金洞殿那個都是地方很出名的也都是很多外來觀光客的啦也就是說你讓觀光客到台南 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11680.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11707.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
除了他們自己開車坐高鐵以外你如果另外一個開闢就坐鐵路來他這種旅行就是鐵路靠站以後然後我們有專車送他們到這些景點去旅行嘛那市區啦就是走獨的歷史啦是不曉得應該有到台南來過啦有當然安平古堡啦 義仔京城恰恰老的大天后宮啦 4.5廟還有那個台南法院那個司法博物館啦是 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11707.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11733.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那台南也更有全國出名的點心嘛 對不對我最近也介紹一些 我上一本有補充來參考一下是啊 好吃的 你也要吃台南點心嗎這個更是觀光客到台南一定會來享受的我相信台南有這樣的觀光資源才會被世界的旅遊雜誌評選為亞洲八大旅遊城市的第四名而且是台灣唯一入榜 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11734.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11759.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那我們有這樣的台南觀光旅遊資源那你開闢這個鐵道觀光旅遊你給台南挑過報告委員這個大家都在爭取那我覺得南台灣確實應該要納入所以我們現在應該台鐵已經在做這個南台灣的這個計畫南台灣的計畫已經在做我們希望年底看有沒有機會或者是明年初啦有機會的話我們南台灣很高興聽到這種好消息啦年底以前趕快開闢一條我要保證判決啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11763.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11783.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我不知道 你要委託看外因為這是委外經營嘛是委外經營嘛這個一定賺錢的啦是 沒錯另外我也鼓勵你們喔我剛提到台南有很多好吃的點心嘛台南是全國最重要最大的龍魚水產很多台南在地的產物現在你可以做一個結合台南在地食材開發一個台南便當啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11783.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11790.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
對 他們車上會提供餐點這個餐點我們就找在地的食材找在地的食材來做好 謝謝部長好 謝謝林俊憲委員現在請習護魁委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11807.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11810.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請陳部長台鐵五代理董事長 高鐵鄭董事長鄭董事長 高鐵鄭董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11833.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11856.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
兩位董事長早部長我想今天討論航空跟鐵路的安全但是我先就一個觀光的問題先請教陸委會公布去年到現在有82個國人負重失聯我們有找過相關的情資嗎?報告委員陸委會的資料也都有給我們所以這82位我們也都了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11857.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11886.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
那我因為目前我們登錄的一個系統裡面附中登錄的比例不到5%那我們交通部怎麼樣掌握這樣一個登錄的一個狀況報告委員我們還是呼籲國人如果要去中國旅遊或者是經商最好都先來登錄這個陸委會的這個網站上面的登錄原因是這樣子如果有先登錄出了事政府才會知道才知道說該怎麼協助包含協助家屬或協助當事人 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11887.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11905.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那這個部分目前陸委會也有召集旅遊相關的業者拜託旅遊相關的業者不管是針對團客或者是自由行的旅客都能夠去協助來做宣導讓民眾願意來登錄因為這個登錄的這個機制最近開始在宣導我們希望一段時間就可以看出成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11906.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11926.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
部長其實我有很多朋友他們跟我提到說要去大陸旅遊我都覺得說要注意啦有時候被莫須有的罪名跟你扣住你就回不來了啦當然我站在我們這個交通部的立場為了怎麼樣針對國人跟旅行團一個強制的一個登陸的一個做政策我相信應該要搭配陸委會我們應該有一些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11927.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11946.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
因應對策啦是沒錯柏林這個贊成嗎有 這個我們跟陸委會都會密切來配合這關係到國人的旅遊安全我們非常重視那我們也是希望我們的相關的一些外交管道應該趕快去透過海基會協調趕快讓這個受困的國人能夠趕快回台灣啦是所以我們也是要確保他們的人身安全是 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11947.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11971.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那部長還有董事長我想我們最近有一個新的這個交通的議題就是西班牙跟葡萄牙在4月28號中午過後陷入大規模的一個停電那原因就是因為西班牙因為極端氣候造成一個高壓陷入的異常震動造成這個交通大亂許多的乘客受困在這個大眾運輸的工具裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11972.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11992.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那我想針對台鐵跟高鐵在我們是不是面臨這樣一個狀況之後有沒有什麼一個備援的一個機制甚至因應的作為能不能提出一個說明是這個部分我們是不是請台鐵好不好吳董事長跟委員報告齁剛提到的這個葡萄牙跟西班牙大端電的部分我想我們台鐵齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11994.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12010.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
也會所謂的我們的不斷電系統那這個我們有備用的發電機大概目前可以有四個小時的時間可以來用那當然如果說還繼續在停電的時候有需要我們剛剛講再加油再注油一樣可以再繼續再持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12011.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12023.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這個我想沒有問題但在路線上我們大概也有幾個逃生的一個地方我們現在是沿線都把它標示出來哪個地方有逃生的部分可以路線都要怎麼連通這個部分都有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12025.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12047.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那這個有沒有需要列入我們比如說一個擴大一個研習的一個項目因為有可能我們高層知道但是我們基層的員工同仁不清楚啊我們現在大概每一年大概都會辦理所謂的體驗的研習體驗的研習我想我們未來把這個納入是我們的情境來做一下研習讓整個基層同仁了解這個時候發生的時候應該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12049.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12058.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
這個我想我們也要把它列為一個很重要的一個應變的一個機制因為這個隨著現在這個極端氣候隨時那種發現什麼狀況我們都不知道所以我們應該隨時要做好營運準備好那我想針對這個台鐵落軌的事件頻傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12067.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12089.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
包含我們在屏東也有長輩在鳳山車站也跌下去有骨折所以我想這個安全性也必須真的要重新來檢視那我知道台鐵目前在高雄車站有準備偵測的一個纜繩式的一個月台示範就我們現在應該是在圖面的一個左手邊這個規劃嘛是保齡院你看這個有沒有美觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12091.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12106.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
報告委員美觀的問題當然他沒有辦法做到像高鐵那麼美觀因為他的車型太多他的這個門開的地方也都不一樣那高鐵是同一個車型開門的地方是固定的所以做法一定是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12106.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12132.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
但是因為我們現在也有很多鄉親在質疑我們花了這個將近一億五千萬規劃的一個部分那到底可以做多少的月台門那這個所謂的效益怎麼去做評估報告委員第一座它一定會比較貴因為我們現在是試辦所以很多的我們必須測試的這些機具都有裝設上去但是而且它沒有量產所以價格會比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12133.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12150.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
但是如果你要複製到其他地方去做的時候我們有一些測試的機具就測試完之後確定要就留下來不需要的我們就會把它取消掉所以我們價格會降低而且我們的機房有一個機房不是只有給一個月台的一側目前是 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12150.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12172.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
一個機房只給一側嘛那未來可能一個機房是可以給好幾個月台那個整體的成本都會下降那這一組因為是在測試的過程所以價格會比較高那未來我們當然價格會降低就會思考說有沒有要裝設更多的車站那目前有在評估啦比較擁擠的月台或者是有安全疑慮的月台我們會優先來考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12174.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12196.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我想部長也常常坐火車到我們相關的一些縣市去看我提供右手邊這是我們德國車站我想我們在很多 包含屏東也有很多地方我們一個平面車站的美觀景觀是很漂亮你這樣做這個行 我覺得真的有點破壞這個美感這個可能要再評估一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12197.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12207.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那另外請教一下我們高鐵政董事長上次這個高鐵過賺不停的部分我剛剛有看了一下新聞是不是已經有做了一個懲處的一個部分是的我們有懲處了怎麼懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12209.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12227.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
我們基本上現在目前應該是駕駛會激大過然後相關的主管也會有一些連帶的這個責任這樣對那除了行政處分之外那我們針對這樣的一個還有整個運作機制的檢討有沒有什麼樣的一個提出怎麼樣的一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12227.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12247.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
是的 對駕駛除了這個剛才講的這個我們還會給他ground下來三個月那其中兩個月就專對這個SOP這個技術上的這個專業再做一個完整的訓練然後通過了以後再加上一個月我們會給他做這個行醫中心這邊來做這種心理測驗跟檢討這樣那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12252.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12259.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
現在高鐵的運量實在是非常的大所以我想每一個站都是一樣我們都要用最嚴謹的一個安全的態度來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12260.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12289.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
是的那另外跟委員報告就是說為了預防這樣一個人為的疏失再次發生我們也做了兩個處置就是說在行控中心跟這個駕駛的這個對話裡面我們會加一句就是說行控中心告訴這個駕駛雖然是在板橋這邊是速度設限是70但是你還是要依這個表定的時間來停車加是這一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12290.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12320.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那另外就是說我們在整個規範裡面對於像行控中心我們會要求說第一個如果列車長發現這個駕駛又是有應該要停然後停下來又要垮車馬上又用PEI然後要求他趕快停車同時也告訴我們行控中心說這個應該要告訴駕駛行控中心接受了以後要求他就取消他的設定要停下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12320.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12346.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那大概說這樣的一個防範我們可以把這樣的一個人為的疏忽那把它消滅掉確保不要再發生那我再請教另外一個問題我們現在所有的高鐵回到站裡之後是不是要做一個所謂的UT檢測的這個部分UT會UT檢測的部分UT檢測就是那個對你是碳商 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12348.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12363.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
就是說軌道我們是定期的就是說這個軌道平常我們有檢測它們但是那個U2的碳傷就是在這個結構上看它裡面有沒有產生一些鋼軌有沒有所產生的變化是的 有做這樣的一個碳傷的檢測這個有落實嗎有的 這個都是確實在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12370.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12384.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
這個我請董事長回去要好好了解一下因為我們這邊有接到關於這個部分確實有一些狀況存在那我想請董事長回去了解一下好不好那我會找時間再跟董事長討論一下畢竟這個攸關到每天這麼多通行組的一個安全不能夠因為有這個設的這個東西UT檢測但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12393.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12418.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
有偽造的一個資料的一個呈現這是大問題啦那這不允許的是所以這部分當總經理了解一下我會再找你一下好謝謝徐委員指導好那最後我想針對這個台鐵事故將近每年一千件不定是這也一樣現在台鐵通行的人數也非常的多怎麼樣降低這個事故我想這未來也是需要台鐵總公司大家一起努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12418.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12426.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那是不是可以在一個月之內提出一個書面報告降低事故的這個報告好 這個沒有問題好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝徐富奎委員現在請蔡其昌副院長執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12441.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12446.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
謝謝主席 請交通部陳部長交通部陳部長鐵道局楊局長還有台鐵公司吳代理董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12462.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12484.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
這個我剛剛其實今天要問的剛剛在臨時提案因為主席英明先處理這個臨時提案所以我的想法其實我剛剛已經先講了一個簡要版那我想細節的部分來就教部長跟鐵路跟鐵道局這個六月這個鐵道鐵路海線的鐵路是不是要改點 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12486.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12511.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
對 六月改點六月二十幾 二十三嘛 是嗎六月二十六那現在改點前啊這個西部啊 就海線啊這個北上跟南下一天各有幾個班次海線 北上南下 麻煩提供一下平日八十九 假日九十一班對 如果經過我們台中的 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12513.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12531.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
北上是不是十一班南下是不是九班你就知道我要問這個 又沒經驗去自己揭穿我剛剛在臨時提案我已經講 等一下我再問這個陳追憲是沒錯 就是從大甲到台中我的意思很簡單啦 你們這個對這個資訊我剛剛已經提我已經非常重視這個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12541.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12548.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
改班改班6月23日之後會不會減少不會不會減少時間有沒有不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12549.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12575.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
目前在海線的部分也沒有調整也沒有調整 唯一調整的就是因為你志強號要修理所以改成900型的那個區間塊的方式換車型啦 班次時間都沒有調整我這樣理解對嗎 對部長我想喔過去你在海線當議員過去我們也一起努力讓海線的班次現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12576.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12588.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
如果我的資訊沒有錯啦北上11班南下9班這個比起20年前它的確增加了我記得我剛當立委的時候應該好像只有3班5班左右而已啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12588.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12613.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
所以我們過去這些年來努力爭取足批增加但我們都很清楚它的長線要解決海線班次過少因為你看譬如說我的資料上面海線一天11班三線有33班北上所以就三倍啦這個極為不合理啦極為不合理所以那我們有知道原因是因為海線的雙軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12615.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12630.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
過去遲遲都沒有做沒有決定但現在經過我過去這些人的努力我們現在定案而且已經進入了這個時程裡面了所以就等待早日可以動工完工的那一天但我還是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12632.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12656.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
海線的鐵路一定要去實場的要去動態的檢討就是能夠播出時段是因為它太多單軌所以我們要灰車要燒單車所以才會搬赤子只有那麼少那所以我希望鐵道局能夠認真的去檢討請台鐵公司認真一起檢討到底我們可不可以再擠出那個量出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12658.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12686.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
想辦法再擠出這個量第二個在時間點的選擇上面我們也都知道或許他可能在特定的時間譬如說早上上下早上或者傍晚上下班可能對你們有這個大數據可以去做一些規劃跟了解把它優化這個就是我做這個臨時提案我要的這個強調因為這個客數其實每一年都存在我每一年都要解釋說 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12688.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12715.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
海線要解決根本問題就是要雙軌這個也應該早就應該要做了所以部長我希望在這個任內我們分長線我們把雙軌可以讓它如期的完成短線我希望我們鐵路單位能夠不定期的動態的去檢討只要能夠加入班次或者整個行程表可以優化我們都努力來做這個這個就是那個報告的重點 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12716.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12740.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
我所知道委員也不斷在推動這件事情那台鐵很像最近有開過兩次會議針對這件事情已經在做檢討我們就希望說讓他最優化因為我們目前鐵軌就是只有單軌第一要最優化符合民眾真正需求的時間點第二就是要最大化提供的量能要最大化這個部分目前已經開過兩次的會議那我們還在檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12740.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12765.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
那所以就是那個報告就是以最大化和最優化的角度回復給本席怎麼樣可以再把這兩個目標把它做好好不好第二個部分啊這個台鐵公司啊這個剛剛許副委員問到齁這個每一年統計啊公司化之後看起來那個數字也沒有減少啦行車的事故啊等等那我看過站不停啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12766.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12780.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
光前面這幾個月就有七次過站不停對不對包括我們清水站也一次過站不停時間有限啦過站不停這個我上次在高鐵的時候我就已經念過一次了這個很離譜那你們台鐵過站不停有沒有賠償旅客 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12787.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12801.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
沒有就是我們的賠償為什麼可以過站不停沒有賠償旅客就在我們的旅客運輸的相關規定裡面是如果造成旅客延誤30分鐘以上我們會這個45分鐘會給旅客做一個賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12805.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12827.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那所以過站不停是算多久 算延誤多久因為它不停所以不算延誤過站不停也有處理的時間啦 就看你是超過的是車廂數是多少因為我們要照SOP來做一個對對對 那我的意思是這樣啦 這個就是我要求齁那個高鐵公司過站不停 雖然那個補償我也不滿意啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12829.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12857.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
但是至少人家還知道說要立刻票價怎麼算然後立刻再送上小禮物表達他們誠意雖然我是覺得這個應該照理說過站不停應該退錢給人家才對那我意思說台鐵如果你們有SOP你們應該要處理這個SOP就是你們要去檢討這個SOP過站不停你把它想像一個人要去上課要去上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12858.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12880.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
火車不是很多 他不是像坐捷運說這一站不停不然我五分鐘或十分鐘後又來一班嘛過站不停可能我下一班要等一個小時啊要等三十分鐘以上啊你給我過站不停我就來不及了嘛我可能要改搭計程車我才敢上班嘛這個可以因為這樣就完全台鐵當成沒有當那一回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12881.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12905.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
過去就過去啦報告委員您所提的這個我認為非常合理啦所以我要求台鐵現在立刻針對這個SOP馬上做檢討對應該要檢討啦如果過站不停對旅客的這個賠償或者是補償這個應該是要做的對他不是要你他重點不是賠償跟補償但是那個是對台鐵公司你們內部的要求啦你們如果事故再不下降我就要做臨時提案以後出現這種都賠十倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12907.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12922.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我就來做臨時提案要求台鐵要賠十倍就是你們要有機制來檢討就是那個SOP到底出了什麼問題你看高鐵只出現過一次高鐵已經上上下下雞飛狗跳了台鐵好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12923.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12950.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
不搞個大概三五百次好像大家也覺得還好啦 幾次而已所以這個同樣在交通部下面我們不應該對兩個我們當然知道 不能完全等同啦但是不可以面對事情的態度是這個樣子那就大家會不施掌勁啦反正也不會有事啊就過就過啊 沒事要怎麼樣啊就沒停就沒停啊 沒事要怎麼樣這種態度我覺得很重要啊這個態度對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12951.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12973.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
我們就可以開始內部的那個管理啊才會那個螺絲才會鬆的緊一點這樣好不好好那因為時間的關係最後我只講一個就是台中機場的那個混亂的問題是我早上已經講過了那那個局長可不可以這個檢討可以什麼時候有一個有一個答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12978.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13002.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
有關因為他分兩個部分如果是屬於機場的部分我們現在主任在開會我們會儘速來處理包含航班太密集的等等我們看看怎麼樣來在時間帶上面再做調整那可是涉及這個檢疫單位或者是關稅的部分我們可能需要一點時間因為畢竟他也是在執行國家的一個防疫的政策有幾個原則一定要把握第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13004.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13019.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
這個班次不能因為我們內部機場航廈整個運作跟管理的問題導致這個航班給我取消掉這個航班不能減少這第一個不能減少第二個你要設想未來我們還在增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13020.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13044.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
對嘛 你知道嘛 我動不 只要這個民航局我只有一個問題嘛就是台中機場的事情所以未來還是會增加那還是會增加我們要事先去預防它分散的問題不要集中那這是民航局可以做的那航廈或者其他的空間的規劃動線的設施這個都民航局要去解決啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13045.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13068.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
就是要增採X光設備能不能增買那個空間擺得下擺不下那長期要怎麼來做這個都要趕快現在未雨綢繆先來做那至於要涉及其他單位的部分我也要特別拜託部長趕快把各單位找來怎麼請各單位來協助大家一起把這個問題解決啦這樣好不好 就是說讓他會 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13070.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13086.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
會擁擠這很正常桃園也會擁擠嘛你到日本的機場那更可能要排隊有時候排更久但是那個動線清楚然後不要產生那種混亂到不可那種大家會覺得有抱怨的情形那我講過了台中就算 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13087.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13109.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
現在有一點擁擠對中部人而言還是比去台北做來得更省時啦所以這個要麻煩部長盡量要把它做到比較規矩一點這樣我們跨部會的溝通也同時會來進行對對對對好 謝謝謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝蔡其昌副院長現在請魯明哲委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13122.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13147.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
好 謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳部長好 交通部陳部長鐵道局楊局長好 鐵道局楊局長台鐵公司馮總好 馮總有到嗎台鐵 台鐵吳總吳董事長吳董事長 台鐵 台鐵嗎台鐵來 吳董事長吳董事長 台鐵公司本身沒來你就代表有有有 台鐵公司那個總經理也在 總經理也在還有總經理也有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13151.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13177.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
沒有啦 不見啦沒有啦 他在門口進來 進來總經理來委員好好首先我們討論鐵道的一個安全當然除了這個軌道本身鐵路本身之外我們整個戰區的安全也是整體安全之一那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13178.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13181.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
好幾個問題第一個部長電梯大概你可以撐幾分鐘啊關在裡面是耐力有沒有測試過有沒有不小心被測試過 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13203.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13221.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
沒有不小心被測試過但如果超過五分鐘我大概會蠻害怕我是覺得我最多十分鐘我會受不了五分鐘我覺得還是我覺得馮總經理你會不會比較容易因為台鐵訓練的關係大概在電梯裡面可以撐多久一般大概15分鐘應該就是好那4月19號發生的這個因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13224.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13241.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
你在中壢站全台灣吞吐量第三大站而且你又在你的管制區內的電梯其實人經常是還滿滿的所以那種壓力比我們一般一個人兩個人在電梯裡面壓力是更大 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13242.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13260.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
那我們現在的問題點是發生什麼事4月19號之後他按當時有這個通知所以他這個新聞是五天之後才做的然後記者是裡面沒有幾人他在測試結果在測試的過程中他測試結果說怎麼找不到人然後按照上面的電話去打 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13262.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13278.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
打了電話說在開會下午一點打電話開會然後到四點了三個小時到時候人還沒來還好是實驗就演習可是回到4月19號真正那天電梯裡面人是很多的然後按緊急對講機 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13280.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13296.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
這個我們最後了解我們台鐵公司有人接喔有人能值班好像是副站長第一時間就走到電梯旁邊就跟他們對看可是對看沒什麼用那發生什麼事就要請這個修電梯的來 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13297.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13322.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
最後40分鐘40分鐘等他40分鐘真的是也沒有辦法在場的消防隊還是消防隊把他打開的所以我要拜託你們因為各地都有這樣的一個電梯而且你們包括還沒上台上這個高鐵都一樣那個人都很擁擠你們的SOP怎麼樣我不清楚後面一問說我們的合約是一個小時以內要到我的天哪 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13323.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13336.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
那不長五分鐘我就說十分鐘啦我跟你講喔修電梯跟救人是完全兩件事完全不同的事情嘛所以我要拜託一下喔你們那SOP喔是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13337.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13353.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
你要救人一定要優先如果電梯需要恢復正常如果你一個小時以內還可以接受所以那一天我想陳文哲副局長也在那邊就說我們有特別做了一個幾個建議說你們要回去研究總經理說一下研究結果能夠縮短到什麼時間救人 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13355.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13376.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
報告委員我們現在目前廠商的時間我們已經縮短到30分鐘因為也是委員當場在現場會刊給我們一個指導要求那但是第一時間我們的這個對講機會連線我們的行車室我們第一時間我們值班副站長就一定會到這個電梯去關懷被受困的旅客 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13376.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13394.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那這個部分是回答委員剛才說這個時間的問題好第二個問題30分鐘事實上他到了那你們的合約啦我也沒辦法可是對於救人來講還是稍微長了一點所以我要拜託你第一個如果在電梯在正常的位置的時候我要拜託你們的工作人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13395.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13414.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
因為很多機械都會嘛也要有一些值班人員對於簡單如果電梯沒有到定位一個樓層的定位那是誰也沒辦法啦說真的如果要到定位可以對到門我們是希望第一個我們在這個台鐵台鐵的各站要有人 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13414.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13431.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
就能夠第一優先解決第二個呢消防隊到的也能夠讓他去做處理因為那天消防隊到說打電話給公司公司還是說你不要碰我電梯啊這個這樣不行欸救人優先可不可以部長講一下你就救人優先吧你做個結論好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13432.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13453.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
當然是要救人優先我的想法跟您一樣就是說我們在站裡面的戰務人員有沒有這個基礎可以去處理的這個能力這個部分其實是可以訓練的可以讓他們有這樣子的能力可以快速先來解決不然對民眾來講我即便看到你在窗外但我出不去我心裡面會非常害怕所以這個部分請台鐵公司趕快來落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13454.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13476.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
好的麻煩這個全國有相關情況都改善一下尤其它這個是四座電梯兩座是在外圍的行人也可以走是中壢區公所管理的內圍的是台鐵的所以這個部分麻煩你們要合作一下那接下來我們在台鐵的總體檢我們發覺已經大概兩千多天了六年半 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13477.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13503.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
六年半這從普悠瑪事件我們政府下定決心要給台鐵做一個總體檢那事實上解決了你們也解決很多一個列管那現在為什麼在安全改革總共16項但我比較care安全改革到底發生什麼問題我們看右邊因為你們總體檢要解除列管列管流程第一個是台鐵先自己擬定改善計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13504.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13521.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
第二個呢你們成立一個安全管理這個委員會來做這個計畫的一個審查你知道嗎過去台鐵在交通部啊還沒成立公司的時候我覺得這合理啦那現在他公司化你知道嗎第一關也是台鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13522.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13546.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
然後審查台鐵報告的人雖然有外聘委員大概五到六位啦總共十幾位裡面他也是台鐵內部所以第一關台鐵提報告計畫第二關也是台鐵那整個弄好之後才有第三關解除列管部長你覺得這個程序在他們公式化之後要不要第二關給鐵道局員還是誰你說一下吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13546.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13573.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
是 報告委員過去的流程是這個樣子那現在改制公司化之後確實這個流程我們來做一下檢討有沒有可能稍微做改變或者是說合理性到底應該怎麼做會比較合理這個部分我認為是應該做檢討畢竟公司化之後跟過去的狀況是完全不一樣的現在的台鐵是公司它不像過去是公務機關它有一些公權力那目前的台鐵是公司不一定有這個公權力在這個部分我們來做檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13573.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13593.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
好 謝謝部長跟鐵道局你們研究一下啦因為第一個才剛寫完報告不管是基電什麼問題他寫完報告然後他又入列來審查這個 我是覺得有點奇怪那我們來看看安全管委會現在是在台鐵公司裡面雖然有部分的外聘委員討論一些結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13594.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13611.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
當然我不知道會不會有以偏概全哇 你全部都做得很好100項99項都做好被魯明哲委員挑了一項會不會有這種情況 我不清楚啊不過我們來看一下自家安全委員會你們台鐵也通過囉改善報告台鐵公司寫的然後自己審查覺得OK審查事項是什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13612.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13637.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
說希望能夠導入自動化跟智慧化系統用系統來簡化人力避免他們犯錯就是原本也沒有有一些系統希望能夠導入這個用詞很清楚然後簡化一些人力的疏失系統可以發現結果你們也通過安全管理委員會的一個審議我蠻佩服的台鐵公司提了三個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13638.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13661.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
導入自動化跟智慧化 是我沒看懂嗎第一 強化各單位人員現場實作的訓練沒有系統嘛第二 成立北中南東的員工訓練所弄四根教室出來 讓人可以培訓第三 對我們人員建立回訓制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13663.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13687.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
因為時間的關係我就覺得說沒有對到答案這是不是其他的改善事項的答案不小心放在這邊是什麼情況那這個麻煩你們回去研究一下時間的關係那我想請教一下交通部部長剛剛是第二關啦這個安全委員會他的審查最終 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13688.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13697.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
亂完之後要解除列管要送交通部要審查同意解除列管那我們又看了一個是你們已經解除列管 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13698.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13719.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
解除裂管是什麼呢 平交到防護設施異常訊號處理那什麼時候解除裂管呢 在圖的下方去年的5月15號解除裂管就應該沒問題了 改善完畢了但是呢 改善完畢不到18天 新聞媒體就在報這邊好像是嘉義的新聞 說半年大概四五次 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13720.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13736.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
平交到一個防護的一個相關的柵欄還是一直有問題那其實蠻危險的有問題到列車要停下來然後列車站下來然後配合用手動再把這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13737.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13756.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
相關的一個設施做一個處理那我們再看右邊的圖就是你解列之前113年5月份解除列管往前推10個月以台鐵跟網的報告發生了7件類似的事件但你解除列管往後推10個月發生了11件 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13757.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13776.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那我是因為我覺得民眾包括我們你們想法都一樣我們希望大家努力了半天報告也寫了我相信也想辦法去落實想辦法去改善終於解除列管了可是感覺實際效果不夠啊部長你說一下你的想法好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13777.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13798.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
劣管如果要解除必然是達到我們認為他會改善的標準我們才會解除劣管所以我們當然期待說解除劣管之後要看出改善的成效那不過就委員所提出來的這個很明顯看出來很像沒有改善的成效那這個原因要不要台鐵要不要說一下我們解除了劣管但是之後卻更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13798.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13823.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
報告委員 就是解除列管是因為我們自動障礙物偵測已經建完了 測試驗收那為什麼在解除列管以後一段時間內還數量比較多是因為我們採用自動化的偵測所以有的人或是相關的物品在我們的防護區內他會告警 告警我們的列車就會一度停車等這個確認沒有障礙物他才會通行 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13823.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13846.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那現在目前整個系統的這個整個妥善率還有它的精準率都提高了所以現在這種情形其實是已經所以在晚3月你是叫我在往14年今年3月再往後看10個月沒關係我們下次來看一下我們總而言之我們希望實際解決問題不是paperwork文件最後怎麼樣去追蹤那請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13851.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13868.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我們楊局長 鐵道局因為我們有聽到有針對於這種安全的一個事項解除列管 後面到底怎麼追蹤我們看到你有專訪過你你這邊特別寫 解除列管分成三大類只要有明確執行的計畫 著手執行就會從總體檢中解除列管 這個沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13874.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13896.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
然後再來改由鐵道局的定期檢查機制來追蹤那我覺得這個追蹤那我剛剛講的情況你有沒有追蹤我不太清楚那可是之前王國才當部長的時候他特別說了一件事他說如果台鐵公司化之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13897.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13918.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
鐵道局代辦台鐵的工程他覺得不太適合來監管台鐵球員兼裁判我自己做的然後我再看看我做的好不好然後這個他是覺得有點奇怪然後他希望能夠把鐵道局的監管單位直接移到交通部這個大概目前的方向是如何你們說明一下做個結論目前有嗎 有在做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13924.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13953.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
這個部分我跟委員報告一下那個鐵路法已經修過了那只要是這個台鐵營運上面的監理就是我們鐵道局那鐵道局的工程監理那基本上就在部裡面那以前是在這一個路政司那現在改組完之後是在路政道安司那有些案子也會到公共運輸監理室來那所以鐵道局本身工程的監理鐵路法已經修了對對對現在就鐵道局就對了對對對在部裡面確定齁對 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13954.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13983.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
交通部 反正鐵道局那我最後的結論是說因為票價六月底就要漲了民眾期待的不管安全品質也希望部長跟我們台鐵公司大家一定要加油讓大家看到你說你票價漲了 安全沒有漲這是不行的 謝謝是 謝謝委員好 謝謝我們魯明哲委員接下來請喜智傑召委執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13996.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14015.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
謝謝主席 我們請部長好 請交通部陳部長委員好 部長好部長我現在有一個資料就是高齡駕駛高齡駕駛65歲以上的發生車禍的比例蠻高 大概20%20幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14026.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14054.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
那這個部分其實讓我想到台灣的駕照平常考完了換照的機制部長有清楚嗎報告委員就高齡的部分我們確實是有換照的機制那針對他的認知功能的部分我們也會做這個檢測那我們希望說高齡的這個肇事率可以下降這個部分我們有在做對所以這個其實要特別的做因為高齡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14056.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14076.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
長者通常他會覺得他沒有問題他覺得說為什麼你要找我麻煩為什麼我不能開車但是他的身體機能退化之後可能他自己不是那麼的清楚所以我們看一下世界各國的比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14078.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14100.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
日本是70歲以上 每五年要換照韓國是65歲一接 新加坡是65歲以上美國跟英國是70歲 跟丹麥是70歲以上我們台灣現在是75歲以上 每三年要換一次所以我是認為這個有檢討的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14105.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14119.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
那不想知道其他國家他們平常我們台灣是一張駕照考完以後就等到老的時候才來換照對不對其他的國家中間有沒有換照您知道嗎這個我不曉得是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14121.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14134.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
這個部分跟委員報告一下確實這個其他國家的規定有點不太一樣我跟委員報告一下我們現行是這一個就是說我們原來以前的部分是六年這一個換照一次那職業駕駛執照是這個三年要 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14138.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14154.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
這個審議一次那後來在102年的時候也是這個院裡面交通委員會這邊這個決議說這個要求這個部裡面要來檢討是不是不要6年這個婚外一次但是剛剛我們所提到國外的情況那國外的情況確實也有6年 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14154.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14180.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
那也有10年那也有後來譬如說我們現在後來102年這個檢討那這個就是說考上駕駛執照之後那原則上如果沒有被吊扣吊銷那大概就是到75歲再回來就是終身嘛對對對那終身的這樣的部分其實在法國在歐洲有些國家也是用這個終身來那個所以駕照管理的一個這個部分基本上大概各國都會有些這個差異我是建議說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14182.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14210.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
統一做個思考啦就是比較各國的好壞嘛那其實大部分的國家中間都有換照的機制啊那他們換照的機制是根據體檢比如說你十年也好或幾年也好你必須去體檢因為一輩子身體的狀況一定會不一樣我年輕的時候考了照結果我中間身體發生什麼狀況但是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14211.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14221.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
駕照還是都不變那也許他身體發生狀況他就不能再開了那也許是年紀老化他沒有辦法再開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14222.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14249.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
但是一般人都不清楚會以為說我就都可以開當然我們站在人民的角度他自己當然不希望你來擾亂我不需要去換照啦以人民的角度當然他最希望是這樣子但是呢以安全的角度以整個道路整個行駛讓國人安全的角度事實上我是認為是有必要可以去做一下檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14250.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14279.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
是 報告委員我覺得這個部分是有必要做檢討那我們目前交通部內部也在做這個檢討這方面的檢討有在做了對但是委員可以提更好的一些建議啦我們也都會參考例如說委員覺得頻率應該怎麼樣抓會比較好或者說年紀應該怎麼抓會比較好或者是我們在換照的過程當中應該有加入哪一些檢測的方案也歡迎委員們給對 所以我就說我們交通部統一做個規劃嘛你比如說10年需要體檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14281.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14306.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
然後來換照表示你身體狀況沒問題嘛那比如說你75歲以上或者是70歲以上也需要體檢因為我的意思就是說每個人身體的機能改變之後我就舉我爸的例子幾年前我就請他不要開車他就一直要開他說為什麼我不能開那我就說你已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14308.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14313.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
視力有減退 那你不適合開他就會說 我只有駕照啊我身體還好 為什麼我不能開 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14315.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14338.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
那後來我們就叫他真的去檢查視力真的是有減退所以我們好不容易才勸導他說好啦 我們身體狀況改變 改調整就是要調整不然不是為了你自己安全而已 你還顧著別人的安全所以其實這是一個很明顯的例子啦我是覺得 那長輩通常他會認為說我沒問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14340.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14355.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
但是事實上可能身體狀況已經改變了他還是認為是他沒問題所以我覺得這個應該是整體來做一個思考好那再來就是說我們的那個教室我們這個所有的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14357.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14375.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
客運車的那個數量現在都在減少所以你看我們偏鄉的老人為什麼他還想要開車我交通不方便嘛所以你看我們的客運車國道還是偏鄉的這些路線都在減少當中那這個交通部有沒有什麼補救的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14377.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14404.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
報告委員就客運的部分我們當然一直在協助客運業者我們希望路線要維持住因為很多的客運雖然大家現在很多人是搭雙鐵但是客運等於是我們的末梢成金必須要做好所以除了一般的客運以外我們也有做幸福巴士委員剛剛所提到的偏鄉的部分我們就是用幸福巴士來補齊那我本身也有到基層下去看去偏鄉看幸福巴士的成效算是不錯那目前也變成更彈性用預約制的 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14405.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14427.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
讓偏鄉的公共運輸能夠做得起來這個其實就是我以前曾經要求過現在我們來檢視一下就是大概做了多少比如說你拿我們高雄來講高雄現在52條小黃公車路線事實上高雄應該是最早做的啦那也做得最好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14428.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14453.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
那有很多的長輩,事實上我們不管是固定的路線還是預約的路線我們都會盡量去長輩設想,這也先公車的錢啦你公車去省省的,一台車這麼大台,開在一個人兩個人你用公車小房,又省錢又方便,甚至公車小房的設計也是很好你就坐到這裡車這麼高,你到底在這附近,我直接載你回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14457.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14469.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
這個感覺就好很多所以高雄市事實上我們辦到現在一直都覺得成效蠻不錯那我想知道就其他的縣市現在是不是都有比照辦理了推動的效果如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14472.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14488.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
跟委員報告一下那個數字我不是很精準但是在186個鄉鎮大概有480幾條這個幸福巴士包括這個小黃公車的一個路線180個鄉鎮186然後480幾條這個路線480幾條平均4條那這個政府剛剛委員所提到的部分確實這個目前推的這個規模比較大就是高雄市跟這個屏東 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14498.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14518.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
OK 我是希望說你們再推一下啦剛你的數據平均一個鄉鎮4條我們高雄52條差不多 我們高雄38個鄉鎮所以就是說這個希望說交通部繼續推那你們這個公運計畫114年編列的剛才那一張114年編列的經費現在被凍結的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14528.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14542.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
會影響到你們推動這個計畫嗎跟委員報告一下確實對於地方的補助是有影響但是裡面有關於小黃公車的部分就是偏鄉興福巴士的部分我們是列為第一優先 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14543.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14559.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
OK 好 那現在我們大概總結一下就是高齡的駕照跟平常的駕照是不是需要體檢來換照然後來維護我們交通整體的安全那偏鄉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14560.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14589.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
客運的國道的不足的部分我們的幸福小黃幸福巴士希望說公路局在這一方面可以繼續加強來照顧偏鄉的老人至少他可以不用開車他有車座他自然就會比較少開車所以這個整體的交通安全希望我們交通部再做一個整體的思考好謝謝謝謝好謝謝喜智傑召委現在請王玉川委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14601.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14614.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
謝謝主席我們請這個武次長然後高鐵鄭董事長還有鐵道局陳副局長鐵道局陳副局長鄭董事長還有武董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14620.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14630.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
委員好吳次長你是這一個高鐵公司的督導的次長是那高鐵公司針對4月14號T204班次的這樣的檢討報告你滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14634.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14651.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那天我有找他們來初步開過會當然它裡面大概還是在所謂的人員的問題當然我們希望能夠要求這個人員的一些疏失還是要想辦法你覺得問題是人員疏失嗎目前我看起來是這樣你也這樣認為對 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14653.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14674.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
你也這樣認為所以如果不是那個駕駛這個事情不會發生也不是說因為他當下的那個情境啊當下情境我了解他是因為他本來是在這之前他認為知道是要停車但是他到了以後沒有把訊號你這個回答很恐怖來鄭董事長這個發生這個事情啊這個駕駛的問題是這整個問題的關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14684.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14705.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
我們的軌道運輸跟公路運輸最大的不同就是軌道運輸要大量的靠系統要大量的靠系統的防災機制我們不能依賴駕駛我們也不能依賴列車長不能說車子停下來列車長發現怎麼沒開然後列車長趕快按鈕說駕駛你怎麼沒開門這不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14710.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14736.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
軌道運輸跟公路運輸最大的不同就是我們軌道運輸有大量的防呆機制系統非常的就是主要重要的但是人員要能夠按照他的這個SOP即使人員沒有按照SOP後面的防呆機制也要救回來即使人員沒有照SOP軌道運輸的防呆機制也要把他救回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14738.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14751.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
所以鄭董事長你大概兩個禮拜前你說是因為那個駕駛啊這個 今天各位都沒有開停板橋的啦所以可能動作板橋他開都沒停啊這句話更危險這句話更危險代表我們的高鐵的駕駛啊開車都憑經驗憑感覺高鐵捏不是台鐵喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14763.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14772.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
台鐵一些老駕駛啊 開了開了就知道說 差不多要高五次了車也不要來 速度降到多一點 那就罷免停了 那沒問題啊高鐵不行啊 高鐵絕對不行這也是國人相信高鐵 全世界相信高鐵的原因就是要靠大量的系統來阻止這個駕駛員的疏失啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14790.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14818.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
是 跟委員報告 剛才講的那個什麼恍神啊或者怎麼樣 那個都是藉口啦其實最重要的是說 你要應該在每一個動作裡面 你要做好你確實的對嘛 SOP所以不要一直談這個是駕駛 這個很危險這個包括鐵道局五次長 還有那個交通部五次長這個邏輯也要想辦法調整好不好 這個再講一遍 軌道運輸跟公路運輸是差很多的喔第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14819.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14823.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
為什麼這一個車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站車子到了板橋站 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14835.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14842.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
這個閉塞區間喔 這個閉塞區間他還沒 時間還沒到喔那不是說公車看不人就開車喔 不是喔高鐵是準時幾點發車就幾點發車喔這一個車站設定幾點幾分發車就是幾點幾分 也不能停車開喔裡面的轉車機一把它轉正綠燈就亮這個駕駛 現在你們的報告說這個駕駛啊看到綠燈 所以他就往前走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14862.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14872.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
跟委員報告因為他會開啟這個路徑設定的話主要是因為我們的駕駛這個車子啊已經到了這個軌道區了已經到了這個區域裡面所以他會開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14877.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14905.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
那輝遠講的沒錯其實我們這個駕駛他又換了一個疏忽就是說他照規定你要停下來要再開啟的時候你要跟行控中心確認你的時間你要自己要知道確認時間到了開車時間到了沒有那這個他沒有做他就自己就開了所以就換了另外一個疏忽搞清楚市長跟鐵道局搞清楚為什麼轉車期一轉正時間還沒到就讓你等這個事情一定要解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14906.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14922.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
否則現在駕駛只要說我看到綠燈開軌道車的人看到綠燈我不往前走是我有事啊看到紅燈我不能走啊現在的設計是轉車機一轉正比賽車前就打開一打開綠燈亮他就走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14923.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14942.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
這太危險 這個機制也要進行相關的調整我想這些機制從這個案子裡頭看得出來高鐵公司有非常大的改善空間因為避免 這個事件當然沒有發生事故可是這個事情就可以看得出來我們高鐵的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14944.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14962.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
每次行車之前啊 感覺因為可能有經驗嘛開車都憑感覺啊 憑經驗啦我開到這裡就怎樣但是國人會相信高鐵我們在學校教書啊 跟學生都是這樣講的嘛高鐵公司有合腦的系統啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14963.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14991.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
用系統化來來防止房呆即使駕駛打瞌睡即使駕駛弄錯了即使駕駛怎樣那個房呆機制第一關第二關第三關都可以把它鎖下來這原來的系統設計是這樣我想這董事長在高雷公司也很久總經理董事長你這一個這一個期間你們也對你對外面幹嘛是說很多房呆機制的嘛這才是你們高安全性可靠度很重要的原因嘛所以這一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14992.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15013.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
趕快把這個機制弄出來來鐵道局這個案子有沒有開罰報告委員這個案子我們已經成立專案小組要進行調查包含剛剛委員你們啟動專案小組是多久這案子發生多久啟動當天調查兩個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15017.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15046.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
現在有調查兩個現在還在收集資料包含剛剛委員高鐵公司今天討責的發新聞稿今天要執行這條討責的發新聞稿答案都跟大家講了你們現在報告還沒出來這個是高鐵公司的報告報導跟我們的調查報告是兩碼只是因為是第三班這又過兩星期了現在高鐵公司現在的改善策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15047.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15055.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
報告的第十一頁第一請列車長告訴駕駛停車第二駕駛收到列車長停車趕快停車這廢話嗎那如果這個列車長就這樣沒人他不趕快跟這個駕駛說這個駕駛聽到列車長說說他也不理會車子繼續滾下去還是無解啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15069.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15091.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
其實你剛剛你有談到的那一個事情主要是耗資系統是不是應該會去做房貸所以這一個部分我們會就這個要啟動調查你們包括高鐵要調查最後我建議從高鐵的這個案子裡頭全台灣各捷運公司全台灣的捷運公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15092.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15109.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
台鐵公司高鐵公司對這種防呆機制也許不同的軌道系統的等級不一樣設定的防呆機制因為有些防呆機要花很多錢設定的不一樣但是就現有的設備現有的機制各個捷運公司軌道公司在這件事情上 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15110.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15130.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
要全面的避免即使駕駛犯錯即使駕駛沒有按照機制來做我們都能夠把他救回來把這台列車不要陷於危險這個鐵道局要自己趕快把這事情弄清楚不要到時候發生的時候我們說哪一年的4月就發生一次也在立完備詢也講得很好聽為什麼又來又發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15133.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15153.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
這件事情是鐵路監理的事情這個是鐵道局要負責也請我們五次長啊包括這個陳部長這個事情一定要盯緊因為只要軌道運輸發生事故都是非常嚴重的事故好 謝謝好 謝謝王玉川委員的執行接下來請鍾嘉斌委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15164.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15181.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
主席在場的委員 先進列席的政府機關市長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請我們交通部陳部長還有這個陸政司的黃司長以及我們台鐵公司的吳代理董事長吳代理董事長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15186.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15209.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
部長好 董事長好 市長好來 很快的 航商溫室氣體減排迫在眉睫燃料加速帶動氫能產業發展來 先問三個地方的問題第一 這個屏東火車站很好 謝謝我們交通部支持現在這個人因為他的 我們屏東的很多去搭火車的民眾都是在私營民營的停車場 停好機車就直接進去結果呢 三天就開了670件 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15211.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15227.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
的行人違規穿越的罰單可不可以請部長指示一下台鐵公司思考一下申請當地的改善一下 可以嗎是 這個可以做啦好 下一件我們跟地方政府大家來討論一下這個部分要怎麼做好 那第二個呢 這是陸正思這是我們在國道3號長治交流在下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15228.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15249.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
這幾天呢就發生了事故所以是不是可以請你們協同交通主管機關增加照明為用路人按一夜間的安全可以嗎這個已經有事故了我們趕快來改善好 謝謝 第三個之前已經有拿到 您拜託了就是我們台22線離港到高速的道路工程改善請指示一下好不好 我已經發文了他們說還沒得到部長的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15250.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15261.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
好 這個我們趕快來做好 謝謝 謝謝好 那接下來就是部長的事情來 部長我們輕鬆一點商業上解決自己的問題和解決別人的問題最大差別在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15262.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15280.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
商業上對那我直接告訴你答案啦解決自己的事要花錢啦解決別人的可以賺錢對不對最懂得這個厲害的是什麼呢台灣跟新加坡很懂得幫別人解決問題來賺錢你看一下來我再問一個台灣跟新加坡都不產石油卻有大規模的石化產業你覺得誰的規模比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15283.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15307.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
猜猜看 新加坡跟台灣台灣應該比較大吧新加坡比較大 但是沒關係他供應什麼需求 我們來看一下新加坡是三大煉油中心之一 自己不產油喔但是呢 他有金融業 他有觀光業 還有航運業世界三大煉油中心 因為馬來西亞跟印尼有產油國他又是天海遭陸 然後呢 他是馬來西亞海峽航運的船子都同他經過 對不對那台灣呢 那往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15308.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15328.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
台灣新加坡的船舶不多他只有船舶只有全世界運能的1.3%但是呢他是去路過的路過的船舶他別人要的他都幫他供應的相對的台灣自己用石化業創造出來的石化原料不僅製造業用也給人家什麼出口對不對所以台灣跟新加坡都很會賺錢往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15329.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15352.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
那請問一下 新加坡和台灣各種航運團隊分別在哪裡補給燃料新加坡不用講嘛 就在自己家裡嘛那台灣呢 下一頁台灣在哪裡 告訴你喔台灣也可以補給燃料欸 台灣我跟你講 你看一看喔台灣目前我們十二大航商當中我們佔了七十 十一我們的總的運能佔全世界將近一成我們很大的團隊 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15354.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15378.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
人家說 如果台海運輸中斷 占五分之一會影響中央經濟表示什麼 有五分之一的航船要從台灣海峽經過 對不對所以台灣的船是不是在台灣自己加油往下看其實 往下看一些 來現在為了低碳而產生的氫能產業除了發電 工業製造 還有運輸您覺得台灣哪一個部份的應用最迫切 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15382.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15398.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
發電嗎 工業製造嗎 低碳就是氫能產業 氫能可以發電 氫能可以供應那個工業製造的熱能 氫能還可以供應運輸 運輸有陸海空請問是高鐵還是捷運要用到氫能 還是我們的飛機要用到氫能 還是航運 三個猜一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15400.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15426.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
最迫切的現在公車也可以然後最迫切的會是哪一個船也可以對沒有錯船最迫切好我們來看一下陸海空三者當中呢航運的最迫切我們看下一頁其實啊IMO國際海事組織已經要求到二零二八年起你如果沒有用低碳燃料你會增加到一百元美金到三百八十美金這樣額外的支出航商是不是很迫切 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15427.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15453.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
航商很迫切迫切需要什麼迫切需要低碳燃料我們來看長榮在去年已經買了20艘1.6萬吋的甲醇雙燃料船低碳他在今年要再買11艘LNG的雙燃料船萬海也宣布他要用深圳燃料他要減少20的排碳量是不是航運台灣的航運很積極好那請問他們的雙元他們的多元燃料在哪裡加再給人家看 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15454.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15476.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
陽明海運到韓國去加生子燃油啊新加坡利用他的地緣優勢他也不產油他就幫全世界路過的船舶加油現在未來的船舶要用低碳的多元燃料我們台灣可不可能幫台灣自己的船隊跟經過台灣海峽的船隊添加多元的低碳燃料有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15478.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15507.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
是報告員台灣當然也會建置這個啦目前甲醇我們設定是在高雄港那LNG的部分我們目前跟中油來配合可能是在永安港但是甲醇跟LNG都是過渡型的終究低碳跟無碳的一定是用不是用藍氫也不是用灰氫會用綠氫那台灣自己的綠能不夠一定要從其他國家進口綠能的原料透過液態氫或是氨我問過好幾次了所以呢大家都以為今天氫能 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15507.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15532.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
是經濟部在主管是國發會在主管是能源組在主管我要告訴你是交通部在主管所以部長我之前問過你很多次我們台灣的港部設施是不是有積極的在佈建未來船隊要添加多元燃料這樣的設備有沒有指示了報告委員這個目前都在規劃但您所提的這個氫能目前以船來說技術還沒成熟 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15533.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15553.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
技術還沒成熟2028就要開始了我們這個基礎設施不是今天想到明天就可以做好2035你要用的事情現在2025就要開始準備到2035的時候台灣本身的氫能部件我們的綠能的風電離岸風電的發展已經會超越我們發電的需求我再講一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15554.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15573.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
台灣目前的綠能發展離岸風電它在我們的綠電在我們能源占比電力的占比當中因為它的發電跟蓄電的匹配的錯位它在發電的高峰期超過了我們的電力需求它一定要把這個綠電轉化為氫能氫能怎麼樣最能配合台灣的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15574.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15596.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
幫路過的船舶添加低碳燃料所以我們要比照石化業開始去思考台灣作為一個不產石油的地方台灣作為一個綠能相對不足的地方我們要進口綠能來煉製船舶多元低碳燃料來供應我們的船隊跟其他國家的船隊使用幫別人解決問題是才會賺錢好 最後的結論是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15599.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15619.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
要符合IMO温室地體減排措施未來台灣的航商能在台灣加注低碳或無碳燃料嗎這個部分我們當然要朝這個方向努力目標什麼時候您覺得我們要一個中長城計畫2035年可不可以具備低碳的部分我們目前正在準備已經有在準備高雄港跟永安港的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15620.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15640.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
是所以呢運用台灣海峽的運量優勢也運用我們本國船隊的自有需求優勢是不是交通部你要把低碳燃料定價美國在發展輕能先定價你不定價人家不會來投資你知道嗎CIP現在的全國全球的佈局請問這位在你旁邊的是哪一位主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15642.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15670.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
韓市長韓市長嘛韓市長是航運行政司嘛所以你要告訴部長CIP根本哈根基金他們目前也在台灣負責台灣最大的風產跟離岸風電他們在全世界部件離岸風電他們的目標離岸風電超過當地的電力需求轉為煉低碳的多元燃料幫國際的船舶加油我們希望未來他也選擇在台灣設置這樣的煉青廠幫低碳燃料的船舶加油可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15671.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15685.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
好 那部長 那什麼時候可以告訴我們 杭政司會開始來做這個事情請交通部將低碳燃料定價藉由航運的燃料加注 業務帶動台灣的輕能產業發展可以嗎好 可以 我們一個月之內提出書面市長可以嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝鍾嘉賓委員現在請張祺凱委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15707.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15728.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
請民政局的何局長跟華航的高董事長好 民航局何局長還有我們華航高董事長那個4月13號啊有一部這個CI753的這個飛機啊好 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15733.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15757.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
從桃園要飛到新加坡結果在越南的外海又撤了發動機就是引擎故障結果非常奇怪的他沒有在附近的備用機場停然後再一個半小時就可以到新加坡了結果他竟然要往回走飛到小港去了這網路上已經炸開了很多人都在質疑說 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15759.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15780.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
那時候華航是什麼只顧著這個成本不過人民的這個死活跟生命安全嗎飛機上有181名的乘客還有所有機組員的生命安全我今天就問得很具體喔 局長我底下先問等一下董事長可以回答當天有沒有比較近的機場是可以降轉的有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15782.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15803.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
跟委員報告當天因為他飛的確實是在胡志明的接近的外海的部分那當然他有幾個機場可以選擇因為他填的備用機場目的地是新加坡嘛那有一個馬尼拉的備降機場然後再來是胡志明香港那他台北這一邊是高雄台北沒有高雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15804.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15826.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
飛行是很精密的嘛備用機場一定是先選好的嘛那為了安全我相信說局長你的家人在飛機上部長現在在在場你的家人在機場一定是用最快的時間嘛安全第一嘛對不對那你是找一個最近的備用機場啊福建的兩個都是半個小時啊越南的縣港機場胡志明機場啊那為什麼沒有選擇這兩個甚至連這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15829.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15854.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
那你就飛一個半小時到也OK你往回跑耶跑三個小時 將近三個小時耶好 跟委員報告對於這個因為他要選擇在哪裡備降當然他有一些因素考量那天候也是其中一個那根據我們初步訪談華航的駕駛員的說明跟公司的說明就是他這幾個機場裡面 縣港也是其中一個那這個 這些機場他有提到有一些氣象的問題天氣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15857.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15874.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
你說的兩個最近的半個小時的這個氣候的這個問題來我給你看三個30分鐘可以到一個叫縣港一個叫福治明市最重要有沒有氣候上也沒有什麼問題降雨中間這條線那天這兩個當地的氣候一滴雨都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15885.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15892.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
上面溫度也沒有問題下面是風速風速非常適合飛機降落你有調這個資料嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15893.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15919.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
我們現在正在調我們所有跟氣象TUF跟META的資料所以本來應該比較近沒有問題要降落吧等一下你們現在推說你現在是騙人還是沒有去查我們現在正在調查華航的說法是華航那我們也會根據我們航盤的這就是當天的這就是當天縣港跟胡志明市因為我們要對不對這夠清楚了嗎所以我希望民航局還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15921.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15934.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
華航不要欺騙我們民眾要面對問題這個部分我們在調查委員所提的資料也會來跟我們我們航管這邊機場的資料我們繼續來問這個攸關人命的事情而且絕對以後不能再換這個事情當天是誰下的這個決定是機師下的決定還是華航我們的初步訪談是還是我們初步訪談我想我們在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15951.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15976.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
發生事情的當下他用衛星電話打回到聯管中心那聯管中心所有的單位會把他們目前所有的資訊通通都會告知那個機長最後有機長 催哨者催哨者來檢取的是說當天是當天不是機師是想要降落的吧他為了安全一定是這樣做嘛我都要告訴你們家人自己在上面你一定是要最近的嘛他自己在飛機上這個機長又有那麼重的責任181條人命所有機組員在上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15981.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16006.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
他當然希望降落最近的啊所以這個不是機長 不是機師的這個決定嘛這是華航 華航 柏西西做的決定是不是不是那向哲瑋機長 這一定是機長做的決定因為我們的規定 大家從當機長的第一天開始他就知道所有的這個不符合人性 機長那時候做這個決定這個生命安全 沒關係 我跟你講這個是可以查證的 來來 那個機長部長也在現場 我要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16011.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16026.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那時候你們有沒有指示這個基礎委員要折返台灣你們那個那時候的那個通訊這個有辦法查驗嗎跟委員報告一定有通訊嘛對不對這個部分其實是他們有一些討論有些討論對有些討論就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16030.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16043.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
給建應該是這樣講機長依據第三條他可以做所有的處理那過程中是有一些討論航管單位有給建議聯管單位我們相關資料是可以公開的資料嗎我們調查完會來公開到底是機長做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16047.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16065.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
是機師本身做的這個決定還是OCC做的這個決定 聯管中心的這個要對全民的要有一個交代 好不好另外一個很嚴重的其實啦 飛安是非常嚴肅的而且規定非常嚴格的你美國的FAA美國聯邦航空條例裡面 讓我們看一下如果雙引擎的這個飛機發生有一個引擎壞掉了它是明定 你要選擇最近的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16075.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16093.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
所以你就違反這個規定啊下面這個更明確了你不能夠憑這些因素就沒有在最近的機場降落三大理由這次華航全部都違背了三個都違背了第一個你們現在的講法是說我的燃油的油量是夠的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16095.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16124.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
他說你要從最近的先降落他不能夠因為說你的燃油的量是過的你就要往更遠的地方更遠的地方飛第二個除了乘客安全以外的所有的安排就是乘客安全是最優先啦因為最急迫嘛對不對第三個你不能夠為了修復或者是修復你現在可能說回到台灣可能修復成本比較比較低欸修復成本華航的成本比那個人命還還重要嗎哪一個排在前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16125.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16134.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
所以就違反了這三個規定所以今天我們做第一個請一個禮拜大概調查要多久會出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16136.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16163.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
剛剛有提到就是我們會因為整個完整的報告因為它還有發動機的故障問題所以航務的部分我們會有一個初步報告我們一個月會提出來一個月喔能不能再快一點點這兩個很重要第一個當然是要追查清楚真相第二個更重要這種事情絕對不能再發生甚至你以後就是一定要貫徹要貫徹跟美國這個FAA這個標準要是一致的好不好能不能再快一點點你什麼時候再給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16164.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16188.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
不是給我啦 給所有的交通委員會給我們一個月 因為剛剛有講到的很多資料我們都要去處理 我們也不是只看華航的資料那所以說是不是給我們一個月 初步一個月內要公開透明然後絕對不要犯同樣的錯誤 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝張其凱委員接下來邱若驊委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16198.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16207.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
好 謝謝主席 主席請陳士凱部長還有台鐵的吳代理董事長好 我們吳代董事長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16213.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16242.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
部長好部長本席過去在113、114的年度預算提案以及過去4月23台鐵的專案報告中都有多次要求台鐵來研議看我們第一線的執行人員是否要佩戴密錄器那以強化勤務的安全還有事後釐清責任有一個畫面可以來作為依據那本席在今年的3月24號那也收到台鐵的回覆指出在114年第一次車班公司協商會議決議中出席代表全數不同意購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16243.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16261.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
那本案還會繼續溝通研議嘛那所以本席在本月的7號也就台鐵的回文內容提出質詢那本席今天就該提請教部長然後還有我們代理董事長首先先問請教部長您贊成台鐵第一線執行人員佩戴密錄器嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16262.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16287.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
如果是站在保障員工執行的安全的部分我當然是贊成啦但是工會那邊有不一樣的思考他們也考量到說同仁的隱私或者說他執行過程當中不希望透過公司透過這個密錄器來做類似懲處那部長我們先繼續看下去根據台鐵提供給本席的資料我們可以看到應該要調查的人數是1139人那實際調查人數是900人那我們看到調查結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16291.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16309.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
有56%的人認為執行時應該佩戴密錄器57%的人認為應該要統一來公發那超過六成的員工不反對使用密錄器部長從台鐵的調查資料我們可以看到超過一半的員工都是贊成佩戴密錄器的而且六成以上不反對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16310.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16327.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
那既然有那麼多員工他明確都表示支持那為什麼在協商會議上呢那麼多代表他是全數來做反對是哪一個環節出了問題還是有落差與基層的聲音有落差工會當時怎麼說我是不是請台鐵先回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16330.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16351.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
主要問題出現在我們的使用規則裡面有一條我們請部長繼續看下去就是使用規章的部分那部長您看到你覺得最有問題的是哪一點我想如果就剛剛的說法應該是全程錄影的這個部分他們應該是會有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16352.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16381.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
沒錯 這就是引發反對聲音的主因那上一次馮總經理也說到這一點就是全城要開啟讓所有代表都有意見就是有人質疑說隱私被侵犯了那上廁所的時候是不是錄影也要開著所以不同意購買部長您認為這一點它合理嗎如果考量到例如說上廁所的時候那當然這是非常不合理所以為什麼會有那麼僵化跟死板的規定為什麼一定要全城來做錄影呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16383.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16404.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
這個我們可以來討論啦好不好今天委員報告齁這個中間其實大家討論很多齁剛剛提到如果說是上廁所那當然這個當然是一定要關掉就不會去要求公司要求說你上廁所都要打開不會但是如果全程你在執勤的期間我們會希望他全程的開路為什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16405.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16422.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
第一個我們不希望未來如果有什麼事情被斷章取義就截斷一部分這真的我覺得我認為這其實是保護同仁要不然到時候你只有一個畫面你說啊前面我們是確實啊這個密錄器應該是要保障安全的工具啊不是變成壓力的來源那部長還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16424.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16447.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
代理董事長 那其實在其他部門 密錄器的使用已經 早就行之有年啦不只是 我們看到 可以看到消防機關還有財政部 還有地方的社會局都有建制 規範但是我們跟委員報告因為我們跟第一 剛講這些大概都第一線的同仁跟那個 一般我們的用戶人接觸比較頻繁所以在台鐵沒有辦法來做事 情況開啟嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16449.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16462.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
到目前至少我覺得我認為應該是這個應該我覺得應該還要繼續那什麼時候會再召開下一次的會議再做討論呢就是針對不要那麼一切全程都要錄影我們盡快再找先生跟他們溝通一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16463.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16481.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
報告委員未來如果要在開會討論我們會針對一些情境一些情境排除的部分我們來列入也就是說更人性化你在執勤的過程當中我們希望全程都要錄影但是裡面有一些情境例如說我們剛才所提到上廁所上洗手間這個部分我們就是可以關掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16482.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16499.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
但是當你面對客人的時候在第一線面對客人在工作的時候為了保護自己我們還是希望他開啟我們就是說這個前提是在他們在執行在第一線在第一線執行的時候才做使用對沒有錯OK好那可以先請對朝這個方向來調整我相信大家接受度會相對高一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16500.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16515.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
OK好那總經理和我們的代理董事長可以先請回座休息那本席接下來我們看到在這個月17號的時候台鐵他頻繁發生掉車掉車的意外然後還有幽靈列車的問題那本席也有向預安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16516.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16538.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
反映這個問題是否該介入調查那剛好藉這個機會也讓部長您了解那最近台鐵的事故頻傳我們可以看到短短四個月內就發生七起不當的停車事件五個月內也發生了七起吊車意外那請問這個雙七這個雙七的問題看起來不是偶發的事件那台鐵有沒有提出改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16539.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16559.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
當然啦 針對這些事情不斷在檢討啦那我們也看得出來說有大部分的案例是因為我們的同仁沒有依照這個SOP 相關的SOP的規定下去做當你沒有依照SOP當然就容易出意外所以是人為的問題嘛人為的問題 人為的問題那部長 現在還要給您看一段影片 我們先來看影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16560.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16573.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
來看一下我們到站列車,317那就是他現在位置,等一下他到站之後,他這317會不會變幽靈列車好我們看一下他會不會變幽靈列車,先來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16577.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16591.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
說不見了一股、二股、三股、四股、五股、六股、一股還有車,還有車不見了,那他不是到車頭站沒了喔他還要去調度到那個基地喔沒了,就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16593.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16607.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
好部長您有看到嗎明明就是列車還在月台可是在這個監視畫面中我們沒有看到任何訊號他沒有顯示在這個監視畫面中那這邊也請我們林信德主委保護委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16609.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16624.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
這個案例我聽台鐵公司有在說明這位值班的副站長他應該要理解實際的狀況但是他不理解然後還錄了影片給大家一個錯誤的訊息我認為這個是所以這個都是站長的問題嗎不是這個到了他終點站到了終點站本來他那個車號就是會消失 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16632.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16647.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
就是行之永延一直都是這樣做的好那我這邊也請教主委那確實是這樣的情況嗎因為上一次本行有請主委說這是不是應該要來做調查我們有請台鐵提供資料現在詳細資料還沒到我們這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16649.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16672.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
所以台鐵的詳細資料還沒有到運安會嗎?那運安會是什麼時候開始起動調查?就剛剛台鐵所說明的它是有一點類似像假信號資料事實上它不是真正實行但是我們還希望它的資料是數位性的所以現在台鐵說是因為這樣的情況所以就運安會就不用調查了嗎?不是還是會調查嗎?還是會調查我們還是還沒有考慮要不要立案因為它資料還沒有完全齊全 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16673.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16701.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
所以剛才在我們台鐵的說明這個也是人為的問題嗎?不是系統出現錯誤嗎?包委員這個系統的設定長年來都是這樣設定但是錄影片的這一位先生是他不了解這個狀況那如果是一般的民眾不了解這個狀況我們可以接受如果說這位先生不了解狀況那是不是教育訓練出現了問題?我認為這個人的教育訓練應該是有問題我認為台鐵應該要懲處喔事實上軌道比賽我們有EP盤 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16702.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16713.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
是那會不會針對這位這位員工來做懲處我們會再加強訓練會再加強訓練了解我們的系統整個運作的一個所以他今天不了解這個系統你們就讓他上工啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16715.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16741.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
沒有 他應該是要了解他我們這個部分也會詳細的去對他做輔導我認為除了訓練之外這位同仁在台鐵裡面這麼多年的時間不了解這個狀況還錄影片讓社會誤導社會對台鐵這件事情的誤解我認為這位員工台鐵要好好的輔導以外那就是台鐵本身就有很大的問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16743.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16756.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
因為它在安全管理上面本來就是要系統化跟常態化還有標準化那為什麼今天會有這位這位員工他不了解情況他還把影片傳到傳到網路上那他明明就在第一線他應該要了解情況的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16760.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16788.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
報告委員我再說明稍微清楚一點這個是我們的TID系統就是車輛的列車資訊顯示的系統那它會跟我們車站的這個車站的一個顯示板是連動的所以因為它到終點站所以到站了這個列車就會消失掉因為避免旅客還看到那一班車還在還認為它還在營運它已經到站了那但是我們的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16789.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16799.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
絕對的安全是我們的CP盤就是我們的所以這位副站長他其實應該總經理您說了那麼多那其實就是台鐵現在內部還是存在著問題啦很大的問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16801.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16819.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
沒有 這個我們會詳細的再去了解就剛才部長也提到 本席今天也讓部長了解那請在督促開帖這件事情上系統沒問題啦這件事情上是人的誤解所以又是人為的問題嘛 是人的誤解這還有管理上面出了問題嘛這個我們來檢討 好 謝謝部長謝謝委員好 謝謝邱若驊委員現在請邱志維委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16835.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16844.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
好 謝主席有請交通部陳部長民航局何局長好 交通部陳部長還有民航局何局長華航高董事長好 華航高董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16849.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16875.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
第一個問題想請教三位上個會期就是十月份曾經質詢針對高雄小港機場是不是用charter的方式能夠飛歐美用charter然後我希望說你們在今年的暑假charter可以正式來上路結果你們回答給我什麼毫無用心你們回答的內容我不曉得是回的是民航局回的還是華航回的還是交通部回的 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16876.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16895.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
完全是模糊空泛虛隱故事然後沒有回答我問題的核心也沒有任何承諾完全忽略這個南部人的這個旅行的權益我問局長這個330可以降777能不能降可以787能不能降可以350能不能降 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16902.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16921.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
三八零能不能降?不行好 三八零例外啦 三八零在桃園也比較少所有機型 當然機型 非歐美都可以降我請你非評估 非一個chart你給我虛運故事 給我良年就說明你完全不重視南台灣的旅客的權益嘛我不相信說 華航沒有這個運能 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16927.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16945.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
我們的南部從高雄這個屏東嘉義還有有時候都要往桃園一到早的這個高鐵還趕不上還要提早一點去過夜你如果有charter你試看看運能怎麼樣嘛你連charter你都不願意去試何議長你的答覆是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16947.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16972.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
這個其實我們這個議題已經跟華航長榮新宇已經多次溝通可是他們對於這個部分其實還是你們要有一些你們要主管機關你們要有政策性的引導嘛第一個他在乎成本第二個在乎他的運能第三個他有沒有相關的這個飛行機可以飛航東南亞那麼多轉機客我不相信沒有客源 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16974.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17003.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
我不是叫你做這個路徑航班勒是用chart勒你連chart你都不願意試那高層是怎樣那個民航局找你談過幾次這一段我不是那麼的清楚但是我真的沒有運能我的飛機真的是不夠的桃園可以增加松山可以增加為什麼南部不能增加你做這個宏觀調控嘛沒有說旗下運能你可以增加為什麼這個高雄不能增加沒有這個道理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17004.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17010.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
你這完全沒有重視南部人這個旅行的權益部長你說說吧 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17012.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17041.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
現在華航的這個飛機確實是相對比較吃緊啦齁但是我們也許你把他我來小港起降用chart先試飛看看看看結果怎麼樣您所指示的齁我們要用政策引導這個我同意啦齁所以這個部分我們跟華航以外就是長榮的部分我知道長榮的這個運量運能比較有餘裕我們從成果來看啦是我安全是原地踏步狗肺火車我是狗肺飛飛機啊不是狗肺我狗肺飛機啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17043.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17061.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
難不能就當二等公民嗎你說沒有運能 運能是你們自己要去調控的民進黨局要負責 主管機關你要負責這個政策協調啊結果我質詢我質詢你 結果你兩點不到一百次就給我這種回顧這個我覺得民進黨局沒有負起該負的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17071.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17100.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
沒有善盡照顧南台灣這個民眾是搭機的權益南台灣變成二等公民部長你再說一下報告員我也覺得不應該給南台灣的民眾有這樣子的感覺所以民航局其實最近我也交代民航局要更努力的讓高雄機場的航班跟航線必須要增加那來考慮到說我們南部民眾的需求我們盡量短航程的部分我們快速增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17100.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17127.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
長航程這部分我們想辦法還要增加 長航程已經回到疫情大概百分之九十八 其實我們都密切注意啦我們要求是說不用坐車勞動 人家要坐到高鐵然後我再到這個長航班對不對 長航班飛機又要搭十五六個小時我要還要在對面前面過一夜如果我這個一早就可以去小港西港搭飛機那不是很方便嗎對 所以我們要朝這個方向來努力但是你要有時間表 你要有具體的成果不是說你們努力 努力的結果就是原力踏步 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17129.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17157.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
你要有一個明確時間表我是要求chart欸我不是叫你定期航班欸每次這個高雄相機問我說為什麼我們飛到桃園去為什麼桃園可以降這個大型的飛機為什麼不能降為什麼不能飛歐美你說聯航它也是經過成年轉那也是小飛機啊那也是轉機那跟新型的轉機是不是沒有什麼不一樣只是說它是同一家航空是轉機 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17159.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17185.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
聯航是不是七月七月份不是那沒有意義啊我從小港也可以可以到到成田也可以搭其他航空公司轉機到歐美嘛一樣的意思嘛是啊是這個喔這個我講喔有政府去做事不是有政府會會會虛擬故事有政府在做事不是在虛擬故事是來這個啊出去過三十秒啦來高鐵高鐵那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17190.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17208.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
鄭董事長來我跟部長啊都常常我是每天搭高鐵我搭了13年的高鐵每天在高鐵上三個半小時你去過日本日本在高鐵上是禁止打一個行動電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17209.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17238.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
你知道嗎這個我不曉得日本不能打電話不管是這個高鐵或者是他們的這個公共運輸巴士都不能講行動電話他們也自我要求他們也沒有法律約束對不對他們變成一個國民一個基本的素養不要太自恃影響別人高鐵日本的高鐵很多對不對每一個共同的標準就是說你高鐵你如果要講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17239.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17263.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
第一個 你自己內部的自我限縮第二個 別人的這個壓力第三個 馬上有人去查處所以他最多只是在車間 車廂跟車廂中間有一個這個電話 這個打電話的一個小小的空間基本上在車廂裡面是禁止通電話的那現在是這樣子雖然我們有廣播 有一些標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17264.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17273.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
但是沒有嚴格的去取締 也沒有去宣導 只是用罐頭去宣導開擴音的 用視訊的 電話大聲講電話的 幾乎都是這樣在高鐵上面運行 你不能讓它忍耐幾分鐘 最多一個半小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17288.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17313.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
你不要傷你不要損害到其他旅客的權益這個你如果短時間做不到你應該可以要求我們的這個呃乘務人員包括列師長加強對成功的宣導或者高密度的繼續繼續宣傳而不是在高鐵框上廣播都是賣你們這個什麼這個什麼這個名產名產的什麼紀念品那個沒重要嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17316.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17333.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
我們現在有供應哪一個縣市的民產外貨沒數第一個安全性最重要準時到第二個不要過站不停第三個服務品質讓人家搭高鐵是一個很舒適的感覺安全的感覺你不是要賣東西所以我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17337.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17350.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
可是鄭董事長你也在高利福很久你也到日本非常久的時間我知道日本人他們很重視這個別人的感受所以他絕對不會說電話在車廂裡面鄭董事長你會看我怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17357.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17375.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
委員講的沒錯 我們希望說給提供車廂裡面一個安靜的環境事實上我們現在是沒有強制要求規定說在車廂裡面不能講電話但是我們都是希望大家都能夠盡量就不要在裡面講 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17375.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17393.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
那也許是說剛才委員提到的說開視訊啊或者是把那個speaker打開啦這個的話呢我們的這個組員看到一定被完全制止的那委員講的也是提醒我們我們會持續的朝這方面加強我們的巡檢我們列車長也好我們的服務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17394.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17415.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
那麼就多這一方面的看 也許如果有看到這個有大聲講話的我們就一定會制止 我們主動會制止他們來維護我們這個行政決定不是主動 更積極的去如何降低車廂裡面的噪音因為我們每天都要戴耳罩 都要戴耳塞因為那個已經對這個旅客的權益造成很嚴重的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17417.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17431.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
這個不能只是宣導而已 不能柔性宣導而已要拿出更積極的作為能夠讓這個車廂吵鬧 車廂的噪音能夠降低好 謝謝 謝謝部長 各位辛苦了好 謝謝邱志偉委員現在請黃建斌委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17446.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17458.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
謝謝主席我們有請呃陳部長跟台鐵代理的吳董事長好交通部陳部長還有五代董事長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17460.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17478.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
部長好 董事長好兩位好 針對今天的專案報告本席要特別針對我們台鐵的票價調整的部分來持續跟專案繼續來溝通我們記得去年0403強震之後我們造成花東交通觀光嚴重的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17479.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17498.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
那觀光旅宿業更是一落千丈那後來又接著幾個颱風嘛那造成了花東地區雪上加霜我想本席也不斷地跟我們中央來呼籲一定要看到我們東部人目前的困境那不能在東部人現在這麼辛苦的時候我們又來調漲台鐵的票價 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17500.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17521.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
那因此本市在去年也跟在地法院兩度的來提案要求我們中央必須在我們東部的整個在還沒有恢復之前要動長這個東部幹線的這個票價那未來台鐵票價合理化的方案也應該考慮到我們花東運輸的特殊性來做調整那 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17522.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17540.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
提案當時也在我們委員會通過那後來部長去年我們在去年十月份的時候也來承諾說未來春節之前台鐵票價不會漲這部分我們要給予部長肯定那也謝謝部長體恤到東部的特殊情況不過很遺憾強森到現在因為接下來還有颱風的陸續來襲 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17542.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17566.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
許多花東地區的這個交通跟我們的各個觀光都還在復原當中那現在中央我們核定的台北的新票價對東部來講非常的不公平為什麼我要這樣講台東到台北的票價那以自強號來說就漲了300塊那這對很多外出的學子北漂的工作的這些人來說年輕人來說都是非常沉重的負擔尤其我們台北到台東的自強號票價 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17568.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17589.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
幾乎跟台北到高雄是一樣的不過其實必須要講的是說我們西部幹線裡面你有台鐵以外還有高鐵高速公路還有客運我們有很多的選擇那我們台東人除了昂貴的飛機票以外其實大眾運輸就剩下台鐵而已那 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17590.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17605.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
這個台鐵還可能是因為好雨或大或颱風他就可能會停掉就可能會又停掉那為什麼我們跟西部復旦一樣高額的票價可是沒有相同平等的這個對待這個東部人真的不是二等公民 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17606.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17629.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
那本期在票調漲之前是多次的透過諮詢跟會議我們就要求中央說必須要來動長東部幹線的票價如果說真的要調漲也必須要研擬花東居民的這個專屬的優惠那先前我跟部長還有國發會主委諮詢的時候特別提到說我們可以有一個花東基金的部分可以專款專用來補貼那也獲得部長還有國發會主委正面的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17630.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17648.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
上個禮拜在總質詢的時候也跟我們總院長親自來質詢他也答應本席說會盡快研議花東居民專屬優惠票價的部分不過我們在今天的專案報告裡面有關花東優惠票價的方案只有簡單的幾句話帶過完全沒有具體的期程跟內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17649.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17671.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
那前兩天新聞有說會給予花東加倍的點數優惠那這個我們後面再談我想這個根本就是杯水車薪因此本席要請教部長所謂到底具體的方案是什麼那你能不能在新票價上路之前就實施這個花東的這個優惠票價來減少花東居民的交通負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17672.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17699.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
我希望的目標也是在6月23號調漲票價的同時花東的整體的優惠方案能夠同時上線那不過這個部分是牽涉到整個系統要改系統的問題那我們希望能夠跟得上我們希望能夠跟得上所以我們朝這個目標在努力跟委員報告你們具體的方案具體的方案跟委員報告這個還需要給台鐵一段時間來研擬跟研議大概在5月 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17701.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17726.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
5月30號以前 提出方案因為其實本席很 那什麼叫點數優惠因為其實部長還有董事長 那個很多人其實像我就沒有台鐵的會員那我怎麼樣獲得點數優惠另外還有台中很多長輩其實他也常常在坐火車那長輩他可能連手機都不太會用你要怎麼就要去用這些優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17727.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17750.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
沒有手機的也可以加入會員這個我們會想辦法啦在整體方案提出來之前所有委員所提到的這些問題我們都會想辦法來解決那還是要鼓勵花東的民眾盡量加入會員因為台鐵的會員其實有蠻多的優惠那那個會員的點數可以直接折換成票價可以折換成票價讓他的票價可以降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17751.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17778.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
部長 我想未來在整個票價調整政策上面真的要給花東的居民一些合理的優惠因為真的交通屬性不一樣我聽到其他的委員在質詢的時候我都人家都在說隔天 說回兩天我們還在講台鐵票價我們就知道整個落差性是很大我想交通部其實也可以邀請我們國發會就本席是一直提到的花東基金 花東基金找國發會也好 找台東縣政府 花東縣政府我們三個一起來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17779.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17792.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
報告委員 這個部分我們也會去拜託花東基金的部分 國發會的部分來幫我們啦就是台鐵 不應該讓台鐵 因為對台鐵來說 它營運是很重要本期建議說我們要比照離島建設的精神 其實花東的交通跟離島其實差不多情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17803.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17828.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
部長你之前也去過嘛 你也了解嘛他的特別性就是就是這條運輸道路而已那所以我想能夠召集這些大家來坐下來談說看怎麼樣不管是在交通上 在產業上 運輸上 甚至觀光上我們怎麼來協助那我想這個部分還要請部長還有董事長那邊盡快的將方案提出來那也希望再次呼籲東部的屬性真的很特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17829.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17854.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
我們雖然住的比較遠 我們的人比較少但是我們一樣都是這個國家的一份住 希望大家可以體諒因為我們台鐵有地遠地簡以台北到台東距離比較遠所以它的漲幅是比較低的平均是28但台東的漲幅只有19%那未來我們還會透過這個會員的優惠的方案給台鐵 給台東的鄉親更多的優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17855.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17870.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
謝謝部長也謝謝我們董事長好謝謝主席好謝謝黃建斌委員現在李昆城委員李昆城委員李昆城委員不在現在請王美惠委員執行主席我們請保定好陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17885.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17904.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
董事長 你好 先生好董事長在這裡 我要延續之前跟你們談到的 咖啡汁開車站的問題因為我覺得長久以來北省如果回到什麼問題就是找民意代表應該找民意代表是越找越方便不是越找越沒方便這樣就笑死人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17913.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17917.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
在這個過程當中,我那時候跟你們討論的時候,你們也說我們要找一個會館,找一個會館的時候,我們覺得開會,要不然會館也要去看開會,另外開會所以在這個過程當中,也有提出你們的意見你們說,我也說,我們是應該給這個事大,還是身心沒方便的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17942.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17944.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
會方便 沒錯不是如果不方便那天去會館的時候聽你們講講 經費也有問題啦要做房子的電算 也有問題啦 沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17958.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17967.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
我們應該是要解決問題,不是要做新問題出來不要說他來不及代表定情,太無稀罷了我們在那個車站,自己車站,我們也知道說看到這裡的市長、這裡的百姓坐車回來,有後站要去請站,請站要去後站的方便,這樣我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17983.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
17990.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
台鐵跟探險跟中央 你都沒去想到坐車的人的方便所以在這個過程 我聽出你們說去看治療 讓我的答案是這樣說實在 我跟你們說台鐵跟高鐵 沒怪沒命賭啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18006.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18008.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
高鐵是一天一天,時間也不會慢,每天要給班次,如果年齡這樣的時候,他就發現說,這站有人坐,我們就要給班次,又要坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18021.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18022.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
結果我們台鐵的 我覺得 我的要求應該是沒有過分的 北京府應該剛才我們的審判人員也來報告這個問題你認為 他說四個月 要來改變這個天橋的鐵所以這個電腦沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18047.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18047.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
報告保護員 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18071.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18087.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
你講的這個部分,對他們來說,便利來說很重要啦所以這個部分,當然我們保護的立場就是要做,但是安全我們也要考量喔,當然喔,我們一定安全,但是我們要有那個負責的態度,跟公家或是在外面要等候的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18093.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18103.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
安全 沒錯 這安全說實在 你看 像三位你也知道 安全的重要性我正在說結論啦 一定有很多問題但是 交通不好好 還是代替好 我們做回來解決問題重點是要讓民眾更安全 更便利的感覺啦這個部分我們要來做 我覺得說 這個聽出來 你有經過頭的人啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18122.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18127.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
因為我們做工作不可以一直說這不可以做這不可以做為了安全我阿彌陀佛也知道為了安全這安全一定要顧我們來解決問題解決問題是最重要的要解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18142.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18149.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
不用聽你們的解說我是要有問題要怎麼去解決才有問題再來補充 我也說聽到你的解說這樣我可以接受我們也希望要趕緊做再來剛才我說過去的問題在長久以來過去的13座 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18168.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18186.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
可以讓人家說服務也好在這個過程當中我也說有需要替我們南部、我們嘉義來撐出我們的班次在這個過程當中嘉義要來到台中、要來到台北搭直達車整天登陸路才一班而已所以在這個過程當中我也勿忘說 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18197.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18209.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
可以讓大家共享有這個平民的溝通的時候可以有很多直達車在嘉義泰坡來使用啦 沒錯嘉義市在泰坡坐高鐵的 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18217.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18225.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
要來嘉義嘉義要來台北跟一班直達車六點五十四分的在這裡我們也不保證跟我們的董事長可以願意讓南部更方便要來台北找親戚也好要來台北看背也好可以讓他們有直達車來交通、來坐你認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18246.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18271.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
這可不可以改善一下來補充你回答補充議員這個補充我們來拜託國體公司來研究一下看班次怎麼調整來比較方便因為補充跟董事長在這裡我也替我們教育的人一個拜託跟要求就是說等過以來差不多在 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18272.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18287.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
台南車也好 嘉義車也好 大家也知道那一幫直達車就是六點五十七分而已所以在這個過程很階段的 可以在创動營里面你這營里面的情緒到現在都沒有改變到我們也希望可以給那一幫因為溝通對每一個做生意也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18299.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18319.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
要上班也好 都非常重要當時聽你討論的 回答一下 來委員報告 重點是這台車是很好啦但是我們經過過去的研究咖椅要去台北或北上的 最要緊是班車比較多所以我們以前也有做過咖椅後的一台車但是我們發現一台車去 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18330.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18337.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
起床後 很多人都要去市場 但是我們現在有辦直達車我知道 在4月14日有接17班在這個過程 我就是想當時拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18350.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18354.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
我們有時候不要想到利益,不要想到錢錢,來方便家裡的人,要坐車的人,可以給一本直達車出來我相信你們有心要做,這沒困難啦,因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18368.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18376.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
這有這個需要 我知道啊 有的要去討論 要去新疆討論 要去基地嘛新疆有時候要去辦公室走路 我現在的意思是說可以有多一百人出來 加二九台北的像六點五十七這樣 六點五十七 因為你們都坐摸摸嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18393.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18400.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
所以你們都不會改嘛現在我就是說 我們不要想說 啊 坐一半一半是不是白天六星期 有觀光機 有要來台北也好 要來台北也好可以多坐一半來坐這樣啦我們來研議看看 因為我覺得說這個班次 因為我知道國體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18417.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18422.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
一分 兩分 又不一樣啦這是做準時的溝通啦希望我們補充跟當事長來研議一下因為我感覺這個要求長久以來對自己 大家百姓的希望和期待啦好 拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18441.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18467.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
好 謝謝王美惠委員那接下來鄭天才委員執行好 交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18474.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18485.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
好 部長辛苦了委員好這個今天的主題這個鐵路安全事件這個部分就台鐵而言這個113年1月到 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18489.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18510.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
今年的3月台鐵共發生了5件重大的行車事故52件一般的行車事故1173件的異常事件這個部分是相當高的一個比例件數是相當高 尤其是現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18513.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18533.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
這個科技這麼發達,然後這個應該是更為精進才對但是卻發生,當然有一部分是相關因為這個這個地點的關係那我們看這個以今年來講啊這個一到三月就一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18535.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18560.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
這比跟跟去年的事件這比例算算也算多了一般行車事故也是一樣尤其是異常事件三個月就212件所以是相當高是需要去加強的去檢討那這個我們看這個就往花蓮台東的來看基本上是土石流這是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18564.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18587.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
這個整個地形地理的關係所以這個部分講到這個我們要坐火車要去花蓮台東不管是從台北出發或是從台南高雄出發確實都是有除了票價之外這些這種因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18591.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18616.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
地形地的關係就會造成這個還好有時候這個有一次是沒有發生任何的傷亡這個是這是一個我們要特別的所以鐵路法事實上都有規定鐵道局應該要負責什麼然後台鐵公司應該要負責什麼然後這些檢討去精進去改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
18621.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
18649.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
這個部分這個要去加油了好不好好我們還是把重點放在後面大家現在花蓮台東的鄉親還是關心這個六月馬上要到了馬上明天就五月了這個我們已經提了很多次不只是我好幾位委員都提了 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
18651.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
18678.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
像台北到花蓮調漲32.51%相當高啊高雄到台東調漲34.41%因為沒有其他期待啊尤其是尤其是這個有了蘇花改還沒有蘇花安的情況之下就靠這個火車 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
18679.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
18708.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
然後 部長也很清楚嘛 從台中這個中橫也是 對不對還沒通嘛 對不對只好往花蓮 往台北啦不是往台北 就是往高雄啊是這樣的一個情形 所以這個因為剛才又提到系統既然有系統的問題 更要早一點決定啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
18710.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
18738.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
對不對更要早一點決定才不會影響到系統所以這個部分部長這個交給台鐵公司去處理是不對的我建議就是要由交通部來對不對也涉及到他營運的成本各方面他當然他當然是很捨不得對不對這是當然的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
18740.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
18756.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
所以還是要有交通部交通部來處理那交通部沒有別的方式嘛怎麼樣去找裁員嘛沒有別的方式就怎麼樣去裁員不是你自己編列預算補貼就是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
18760.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
18783.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
我們建議的比照這個離島建設基金從花東基金來去補貼方向給你都有啦就是去跟國發會談啊跟地方政府談啊因為有一部分地方政府可以支持的花東基金因為他有分配嘛部長可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
18784.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
18799.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
可以 我們也會找國發會一起來談這個問題對 要盡快談 這個是對台鐵來說是最有幫助的所以這個部分要趕快去處理 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝鄭天才委員 現在請李博義委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
18822.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
18837.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
辛苦 我們請陳部長好 交通部陳部長民航局何局長好 民航局何局長鐵道局陳副局長還有中華航空好 高董事長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
18838.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
18856.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
部長辛苦先感謝你幾樣事情第一個高鐵接高雄捷運連通道那鐵道局這邊已經在高鐵公司這邊已經在評估從原本的6加7個月那部長指示之後縮短為5加5個月在這邊先感謝你 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
18858.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
18877.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
請殺該殺可能會是一筆費用但是我覺得對於高雄市民的整個需求來講的話非常的需要這個也請交通部繼續努力第二個感謝你第二件事情就是有關於小港機場爭取雙走道飛機來高雄小港機場的事這是我佈局的第一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
18878.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
18906.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
那也感謝部長也很快的這樣在半年內做好了這樣的調度那確實華航也把飛機調來了我的布局第二步是什麼呢其實雙走道飛機現在過去都要777或者是這個380才可以飛歐美澳那現在的350跟787都可以飛歐美澳結果華航聽你的話聽一半他調來高雄調什麼來 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
18907.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
18933.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
董事長,你調哪一架飛機來高雄?目前是調330來,我給你看一下,這個是最新的澳洲剛放復活節,然後他們有一個廉價剛好有一個行程,來跟我分享這個行程的感受他從高雄飛大阪 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
18935.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
18941.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
飛A330他的窗戶就這樣刮刮的很厲害我就不得不好奇去查了一下這一台A330的機鈴多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
18946.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
18964.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
應該是19年左右對,快20年啦那我也跟你查了,整個華航機隊平均的機齡大概也不會到20年啦所以部長你聽懂我在講什麼嗎?華航配合啦,但是掉了一台老的來啦第二個,A350現在平均機齡7年 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
18965.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
18987.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
大部分都還是放在桃園跟這個松山所以我們還是在爭取我布局的第二步當部長你又政策指示下來之後那華航把A350調來之後華航高雄就可以開始安排歐美澳了就是剛邱志偉委員那麼生氣民航局都沒有好好的做這些政策的督導 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
18988.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
19009.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
沒有好好的把高雄小港機場整個南部的旅客的福利放在前面的時候所以難怪人家那麼生氣那董事長有沒有看到新聞說現在美國有一些波音中國訂的波音中國不交機有黃昌有沒有評估要買 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
19012.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
19026.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
部長你認為華航可不可以來研議一下針對美國採購波音科技報告委員這個是比較專業的問題但是華航確實是可以評估看看但我所知道華航目前也有一些交機的計畫對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
19027.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
19042.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
基本上沒有防焦機計畫那些我知道那我是說你現在看到中美這個關稅貿易戰在即嘛那已經有這個波音客機可能本來要別人的訂單我們有沒有考慮評估可以先拿過來目前那個737 MAX是我們不要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
19043.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
19067.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
737我們不要,那有沒有787那有787我們有掌握,大概有11架,可是到目前為止它的交期都還沒有定出來好,如果中國有棄單,我是鼓勵華航趕快評估把787也買過來部長這個也可以做一下政策我們來追蹤,如果那個機型是我們要的,然後剛好有可以交機交給我們,我們當然就來爭取如果我們交機的時程可以往前拉,那當然是好事好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
19068.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
19091.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
那因為時間有限最後我針對這個男子的台鐵立體化這邊來做一個詢問那交通部的可行性研究原本是在今年必須要出來那是不是遇到什麼狀況是不是台積電對是不是要增加對台積電的高雄廠的衝擊評估大概什麼時候會把這個可行性評估出來報告委員這個可行性研究應該是高雄市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
19092.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
19120.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
是高雄市政府在辦高雄市政府現在針對台積電他可能我們要多設一個廠多設一個台鐵的站在台積電的廠區旁邊那所以這一個評估會稍後在今年底出來那我們會繼續來跟交通部來爭取我們一定會來支持就是說要增加這個站他可以放到他的可行性評估裡面可以納進來然後我們一起來討論交通部來協助如果有這個需求我們當然就朝這個方向下去努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
19120.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
19143.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
最後我們最緊張的其實還是高雄的捷運紫縣這個捷運紫縣其實目前雖然已經在交通部那我們希望在之後的這個之後的這些可能性評估已經出來那之後綜合規劃等等的我們還是要加緊速度持續跟鐵道局 持續跟交通部來做這些聯繫好 這個我們來努力 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
19147.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
19174.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
好 謝謝李博義委員接下來楊瓊英委員 楊瓊英委員 楊瓊英委員不在現在游皓委員執行謝謝召委 還有請部長好 我們交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
19177.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
19183.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
那也有請一下台鐵公司代理董事長吳代董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
19190.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
19209.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
其實在南投在上次這個交通委員會還有我們的考察其實許多事情其實還是也感謝交通部對於南投的幫忙那很多事項的話也都有逐一的來協助落實跟包括經費的提供也是對交通部表達感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
19210.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
19229.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
那在特別請就是代理董事長的時候其實也就是要在追蹤就是上一次有在會議上有提到在積極支線就是在目前預計可以完工的時間期程那時候有提到希望能夠加快 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
19230.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
19246.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
在今年年底還能夠到車程的部分能夠來做完工那時候再評估是有這個機會那我想請教一下那目前上次提出到現在時隔一個月那這個演藝的進度如何謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
19247.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
19266.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
跟委員報告這確實回去有再找台鐵同仁再了解現在看起來還是有他的困難度不過我想我們會再努力我們就幾個環節再去看看可不可以再縮短一點好 那盡可能來協助完整那總是希望能夠在 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
19267.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
19278.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
就是今年年底明年南投燈會到時候在開始的時候那大家來南投還可以剛好重新再來振興這個我們集集支線這條觀光路線的景氣是好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
19282.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
19296.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
那接著就叫部長就是目前來講這個川普的貿易戰的這個部分啊那對於我們南投縣還受影響的企業家數我從縣府也調資料在1150家相關這262家都是受到衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
19303.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
19325.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
那目前來講交通部也在25號有開了產業座談因應關稅的一個會議啊那會議中的結論跟訴求我這邊也都有看到但是目前來講在美國對關稅直接充其是在生產端跟消費端在運輸則是在兩者之間最重要的一個支撐角色那本行要救救那在目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
19326.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
19346.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
行政院所規劃的4100億他並沒有直接支援在這些運輸或是在這個直接在廠家的部分那這樣子要怎麼樣來去改善或是報告委員目前我們有觀察整體的運量不管是海運或者是空運受到的影響到目前為止看起來並不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
19347.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
19374.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
那未來或許會受到比較大的影響那以過去的經驗其實我們對於航空業者或者是說航運業者船運業者的部分他們自己也會去做一些調控那目前我們跟他們座談的過程當中他們所提出的需求是希望我們可以增加一些彈性例如說他要調整航班的時候我們盡量快速的配合他或者他調整航程的時候我們盡量快速配合他那這個部分我們密切跟他們做聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
19376.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
19391.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
如果真的有需要的時候我們會再提出其他的方案沒關係那到時候方案再跟本席跟本委員會再提供那同樣的就在於這個將近在7月底即將到期到州談判的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
19392.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
19404.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
那所以說現在在許多業界尤其在我們南投縣許多受影響的企業家就擔心到時候六月中到七月初會爆發這個擠丹草那目前來講請教一下部內或行政室這邊預計要怎麼解決這個擠丹草 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
19408.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
19426.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
報告委員我們航港局其實有一個因應對策的會議包含這個平穩的機制其實我們也都有在開會我們持續在開會所以如果真的有急單來的時候我們去調配拜託國籍的航商可以幫忙去調配船艙的部分提供艙位的部分這個我們會來協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
19427.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
19442.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
這個那目前已經事前溝通嗎還是已經就是預計會去這麼溝通我們目前都持續在做溝通那會議也持續固定有在開但是目前變化還沒來等變化來的時候就會很積極的趕快去處理本席要表示說其實防範 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
19443.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
19459.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
其實這個很明顯的可以預期說到時候時間點到的時候其實現在許多產業跟企業他們本身就已經心急如焚那所以說到時候這個吉丹草如果一來的時候提早做好因應有報告委員5月6號航港局就會來召開會議這個部分我們會提早因應好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
19460.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
19488.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
那再來就是在昨天的話我們大家都知道這個西班牙大停電那這個電網的部分不管是極端氣候還是說找不出原因但是在目前台灣很明顯的就要遇到5月17號河山廠第二機組就要停役了那就直接就交部長那如果發生這種大停電的情況之下那在台鐵的部分的運輸上是否有任何的備援方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
19488.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
19505.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
包括我們的台鐵的廠站他都有備援方案也會有發電機也有不斷電系統尤其是在這個行控系統一定要做到不斷電所以不斷電系統都有好那這個不斷電系統的話大概電力可以維持幾小時4個小時吧所以4個小時之後的話就沒電了 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
19506.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
19522.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
我們還有發電機我們先讓它不斷電先維持至少4個小時但是4個小時之內我們應該很快速就會啟動發電機那過去的話對於這樣子的一個如果大停電的一個情況之下有做過任何的一個形式的演練嗎?多久一次?我們最近3月提案也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
19523.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
19551.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
包委員 我們每季都會有提案演習所以我們最近在三月份一到三月就有做過一次提案演習那這個演習的話是針對就是停電的一個情況沒有 停電的部分我們會在後續的這個提案演習裡面也把這個腳本劇本把它納進去對 因為其實我們看到西班牙會發生這個情況那同樣的那本席要直接再作問就是那在河山停役之後的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
19552.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
19556.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
目前對於台鐵的供電來講有受到什麼樣的衝擊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
19558.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
19585.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
報告委員這個河山廠它是影響的是整體的供電的量跟台鐵沒有直接的關係目前我們看到台鐵那邊的備載容量其實每一天都至少有百分之十幾以上所以看起來供電的狀況還可以而且我所瞭解河山廠目前的供電量佔整體的供電量很像比例沒有很高所以台鐵那邊應該要提高到是全國整體供電的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
19587.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
19615.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
就是全國整體供電的一個情況所以說這個部分來講同樣的也創造了因為像西班牙這樣子無預警的電網失衡那其實就有可能會讓任何突發狀況有可能發生的時候那如果像現在來講的話台鐵的話在電力的話它的變電力是4個小時那像這樣子的話耗製的部分或是閘門閘道的部分也同樣就在4個小時內有這樣子的一個供電措施嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
19616.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
19640.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
對 我們不斷電的鋪設都是這個樣子 廠站的部分那如果說 所以說這樣子換一個角度講的話就是目前來講 假如遇到大停電或是天災人禍台鐵還能夠營運的話 就大致上除了發電機之外 就只剩下四個小時嘛正常的話廠站的部分啦 如果以路線來講的話以路線來講 如果真的整體停電 路線上沒有電 當然車子無法運行 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
19641.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
19659.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
那疏散過去也有多久演練一次疏散這種方案疏散是不是三個月你們都會每一季都有演練那是以單點還是區域還是整體全國看腳本我們也有以場戰為主然後也有配合震災或是風災區域的一個聯合演練都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
19660.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
19679.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
那沒關係 那防範未然啦 因為時間有限那因為如果說發生大停跌或是天災人禍的時候那全國的交通運輸還是要由部長這邊來去主政那如果說以四個小時的一個備援電力來講的話那後面用發電機如果沒有電的情況之下那等於是一個鐵路系統就已經是癱瘓了 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
19680.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
19700.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
那這樣子的話不管是在天災或是戰死的話那其實在交通上以及人員的疏散上其實就是一個很大的挑戰那同樣的是在各種的一個演習演練那他目前來講以前所沿用的演練計畫相信都是比較區塊的但是本席還是希望在這個集會討論之後能夠把 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
19702.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
19730.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
各種的演練的可能性或是包括在劇本腳本的部分也能夠把它放大因為我們看到西班牙他有辦法全國大停電未來台灣如果又全國大停電那這樣子影響的先不管說產業上受到的衝擊那其實在民眾在交通上面的疏散跟安全就已經是一大挑戰那我們反反未然也希望說部長這邊能夠責任相關單位來做更完善的演練好沒問題謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
19734.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
19743.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
謝謝遊浩委員 樓庭委委員 樓庭委委員 樓庭委員不在現在請陳冠廷委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
19756.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
19773.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
你好我們請部長好請交通部陳部長跟鐵道局鐵道局陳副局長跟這個國營台灣鐵路部門有限公司好台鐵那個台台鐵吳代董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
19778.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
19802.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
部長好部長我想應該是今年去年我們都有質詢交通部在院會的時候也有質詢那就是主要是針對我們民雄鐵路高架化的一個進度那我們有在嘉義的民雄也有開過相關的這個座談會還有跟我們嘉義的民眾來討論過那那個時候的時程是跟我們我們去年的時候要跟我們講的時程是如同我們現在圖面上所講的113年8月來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
19806.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
19823.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
經費審議報告然後14年5月臨時鐵軌決標開工然後14年12月主體工程決標開工那目標他們是當初是定10月份那我想請教部長就是這個月臨時軌開工的進度是否如期10月份是不是可以看到有沒有機會開始看到立柱這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
19826.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
19844.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
5月份我們這個開工的部分應該是沒有問題啦我有請鐵道局在5月份臨時軌的部分開工是沒有問題但是整個工程程序有沒有辦法到明年10月嗎臨時軌的開工的進度是不是就跟我們當初規劃的一樣還有10月份是不是有機會開到立柱這樣的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
19847.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
19868.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
臨時軌這個部分沒有問題啦開工一定是在五月會有做開工的動作那臨時軌有沒有十月當時有講到那個立柱的部分有講到十月嗎這個部分可能要跟委員先做一個說明其實我們這個進度我們一直在跟嘉義縣政府也充分的做溝通特別是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
19869.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
19884.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
民雄站的部分我們也有一個充分的工作在嘉義縣政府也開過三次的會議那當然是整個可能就是說整個主體計畫的部分我們會就是說在 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
19885.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
19907.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
應該說在今年已經奉政院審核通過之後我們現在在辦主體計畫的招標招完標之後我們才有辦法跟如同委員您所講的有開工跟立柱所以我們現在正在進行主體工程的招標作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
19909.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
19935.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
ok 所以可不可以給我幾個時間點就是你可以再說明大概是幾月幾分因為招標作業並非部長或者是我們局所可以控制是有沒有人來領標然後是不是可以順利的決標等等所以這個部分我們會在今年內盡快的去把這件事情把它給完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
19936.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
19955.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
其實我們先談整個整個總體的這個建設那很多我們的民眾是希望盡快看到這個工程的施作所以他們在這段期間會有相對的不安感所以我們才希望說能夠盡快把至少在這個施作的部分能夠很清楚的跟他們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
19956.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
19980.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
那再來就是我想另外一個部分就是我們之前一直有提到這個橋下的空間或是我們有提到橋下空間它未來以前在台中的時候在台中車站高架後有長達四五年它的橋下空間沒有人撐住那隨便長期使用這個綠色的鐵圍把它圍住那其實非常不美觀而且浪費空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
19981.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
19998.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
所以我們應該要提早規劃在我們現在都還沒有開始之前先把這個東西想好這個部分不知道有沒有什麼樣的回應我來跟委員做一個說明其實這個議題的部分我們也有跟嘉義縣政府做充分的溝通其實這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
20000.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
20022.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
橋下的空間可以做很多元的的運用所以在這個部分可能就是未來就是嘉義縣政府還有鐵路公司等等相關單位可能要進一步的做相關的規劃之後才有辦法然後去定案所以這個部分可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
20023.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
20038.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
未來就針對這個議題的部分可能還要召開相關的平台會議再去做進一步的探討參與方有誰參與方要找誰台鐵公司這問題台鐵公司那我們是不是請台鐵公司來講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
20040.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
20069.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
我跟委員報告這橋下部分涉及到都市計劃變更那些都市計劃變更目前已經完了現在大概我們在等這個嘉義縣府它發布那後面的話我們大概以多目標來這個方式來申請剛提到底下可能有一些複合式的一些商業機能我們會朝這個方式來做那這部分剛提到我們會今早先來作業那剛提到這可能還要再跟那個縣政府我們再做協調一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
20070.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
20095.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
好 縣政府這邊我們也會來去跟他們接洽就是先做好預備那剛才提到的不管是因為剛才有講到不知道有沒有人會來這個來參與啊然後所以不知道有多少人來參與這個然後才可以開標決標這個都還不太確定但是原則上是五月我們希望在今年可以完成最好因為現在在招標的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
20097.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
20125.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
報告委員如果招標順利的話如果招標順利的話我們當然就是照原本的時程但是唯一的變數是這個樣子就是招標的廠商如果來的不踴躍或者是無法標出去的話那當然就是另外另外的處理模式所以我們如果這一切順利的話五月招標決標是有可能的那可不可以再麻煩招標如果順利五月是OK的對麻煩協助讓盡可能讓多元一點進來就是也是要有更多人知道不然 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
20127.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
20154.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
對這個部分可不可以全力協助一下就我們還是希望你不要不要一直說今年啦就盡量這個月能夠解決事就這個月好不好不要拖到明年好不好因為很多民眾就說希望趕快已經看到這已經有開始有在圍起來了所以期望很高所以再麻煩大家好謝謝好謝謝陳冠廷委員吳立華吳立華吳立華委員不在現在請習新穎委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
20166.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
20169.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
謝謝主席 本席有請陳部長交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
20179.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
20192.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
委員好部長還有我們國城召委以及各位官員大家都辛苦了到這麼晚但是本席也要就為什麼我們每次交通部長來大概都要到兩點以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
20194.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
20218.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
原因應該是因為各縣市我們這個區域立委都為地方要來爭取所以我們交通建設應該是所有建設之首整個帶動區域的發展所以我們交通的很多的部件應該是要超前部署而且也是要能夠評估就是要能夠看到10年20年後 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
20220.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
20237.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
那本席在這裡要特別感謝我們林昭偉還有部長在這個禮拜一來到新竹來考察那我們新竹高鐵站新竹高鐵站馬上也整個的在規劃西側西側的建設所以整個的不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
20238.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
20263.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
人的容量車流的容量還有整個的規劃能不能符合10年20年後因為我們交通的建設動輒5年10年甚至十幾年重大建設所以我們在這裡我們還是要特別特別的提醒我們要看到未來的需求而不是現況然後我們稍微那個能夠符合或者是符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
20264.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
20284.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
的承載量多一點點而已但是在整個興建的過程可能就5到10年這5到10年地方的發展又帶動過來所以建好以後好像剛剛好而已最後不久又不夠了所以這一點本席在這邊一開始先特別的提那一天我們到新竹高鐵站有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
20286.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
20311.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
問題本席在這裡要再特別提一下就是我們新竹高鐵站這個計程車太少這個部分看是不是可以幫我們改善我們這個我們新竹高鐵站的這個乘客人次是等於全國大概第四第五這個前幾名的那但是呢這個計程車人次少當然部長那天來也發現我們的客運 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
20312.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
20325.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
也幾乎是沒有我們只有接駁車少數的接駁車整個新竹縣也需要有公車完全沒有公車的部分本席在這裡也要特別請命交通部可以來幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
20328.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
20347.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
新竹高鐵站的計程車太少所以常常等計程車的人排得很長人家以為最近又有演唱會還是說高鐵站哪一個店賣的東西賣得像我們富航豆漿一樣哇 排得人人龍排得很長所以這一塊部長可不可以協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
20348.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
20367.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
報告委員這個部分我們跟地方政府大家來討論一下看那周圍的計程車的整體提供的量看可不可以增加那另外一方面新竹高鐵簽的嘛他們有簽啦但是量的部分好像也不是我們能夠好來請董事長謝謝委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
20369.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
20388.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
那這個有關計程車確實是計程車這部份的排班計程車是由高鐵公司負責來招募那在這個量體方面我想這個委員的建議我們會把它放在心裡請你們一定要來重視因為這個問題很久了希望能夠盡快解決我會希望鼓勵更多計程車進來是的 謝謝再來就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
20394.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
20405.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
新竹監理站人力不足的本席在這裡也要特別請命就是我們新竹監理站它整個的業務量桃竹竹苗整個涵蓋那這個罰單最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
20410.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
20431.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
也一直暴增那業務量一直增加但人力一直不足所以這一塊本席今天也特別在這裡來代為請命好那接著接著接著本席要就我們這個新豐火車站我們秀一下投影片新豐火車站部長可能有個螺絲鬆掉了本席要特別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
20433.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
20452.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
請部長看一下在這個投影片裡面我們新豐站每天搭車人次是相對這麼多站裡面最高但是對後班次是零區間快的班次最少結果總班次也是最少人數最多這是不是應該要調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
20455.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
20478.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
所以這一塊部長可以幫忙吧您看到這數字我想您應該也感受很深所以我們衛星風站這裡我們可以增加我們對號班次還有區間快的班次可以嗎報告委員如果他的人數是比較多的那應該理論上班次應該是會增加的所以這個部分我們在6月會6月26號會做調整會增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
20481.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
20494.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
那我們真的要拜託那最後部長本席請教一下我們全國的鄉鎮市所謂的鄉全國有大概146個鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
20497.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
20516.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
最大的鄉是哪一個鄉?您知道嗎?胡口鄉就在新竹縣的胡口鄉那表示他的人數是全國146個鄉裡面最多的那所以胡口鄉他剛好又是在我們台一線上而且也是我們中山高經過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
20517.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
20542.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
那這個部長就是您每次下了舞陽之後你要回台中開始塞車的大概就是湖口快到了就是這個鄉所以我們知道舞陽的這個拓關工程已經在規劃而且很快會施工但是我們是不是可以新增湖口第二交流道這個部分地方的說明會以及各種評估也已經送到 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
20543.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
20557.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
我們中央 已經送到中央所以本席在這裡要特別的來請命因為我們虎口鄉呢它整個腹地有新竹工業區也就現在的新竹產業園區還有鳳山工業區 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
20560.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
20581.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
而且現在未來有整個富邦人壽的大型物流中心BOO案還有全家便利商店的全溫城大型物流中心BOO案很多大型企業的進駐所以大量的工作聚會大型的企業員工開車通勤物流貨運的配送整個的交通非常的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
20581.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
20602.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
所以我們知道五陽高架拓寬之後現在塞得很嚴重五陽高架拓寬之後可能可以稍微疏解但是未來10年20年我們還是需要急速的現在就來超前部署我們的虎口第二交流道那本席在這裡也要請命請部長這裡可以支持好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
20607.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
20623.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
我們4月剛做完如果說地方已經做完可行性研究以後他被尋釋報到高空局有個委員會他被審議這個案子如果說確定是可行的話那後續高空局就會接續做相關的規劃設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
20624.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
20648.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
是 所以本席是想請部長這裡可以瞭解您也是感受到虎口塞車 您感同身受所以請部長這邊來支持 可以嗎好謝謝部長謝謝委員好 謝謝習新穎委員王宏威 王宏威 王宏威委員不在林德胡 林德胡 林德胡委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
20650.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
20670.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
葉延芝 葉延芝 葉延芝委員不在吳宗憲 吳宗憲 吳宗憲委員不在蘇清前 蘇清前 蘇清前委員不在羅明才 羅明才 羅明才委員不在現在請蔡易瑜委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
20682.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
20689.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
好謝謝主席那我們是有請這個交通部陳部長好陳部長鐵道局現在是副局長陳副局長陳副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
20700.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
20715.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
好 部長部長基於這個兩年前所頒布的文化藝術講座及促進條例那第15條第一項公有建築物及重大公共工程的新辦因辦理公共藝術營造美學環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
20718.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
20736.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
其辦理經費不得少於該建築物及公共工程造價的1%所以我們嘉義市的鐵路高架化因為嘉義市的鐵路高架化除了在嘉義市之外很大的量體是在嘉義縣的水上鄉包括北回車站以及包括整個車輛基地 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
20737.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
20761.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
很大的量體在水上鑲那我們也知道說整個嘉義的鐵路高架化總經費334億中央負擔了276億那所以在於基於我剛剛說的這一個文化的一個促進條例那他應該要核定公共藝術最後核定了2.53億我覺得這2.53億事實上比總預算的334億還要少 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
20766.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
20782.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
這個第一個問題啦不過已經核定了就核定了那我現在要講在接下來的部分那所以接下來的部分我們來看下一頁那這下一頁就把這樣的一個公共藝術的一個設置計畫我們看到在嘉義車站有480萬那嘉義車站的風雨走廊4500萬那以及我剛剛講的在於北回車站1200萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
20790.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
20813.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
水上車輛基地6400萬那有這樣的一個公共藝術的一個規劃這些也都沒問題那現在問題來了我要講嘉義車站跟北回車站這兩個嘉義車站咧是228事件當年有我們嘉義市最有名的畫家陳澄波那以及像潘木之這樣很多的社會賢達他們在北回在嘉義車站這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
20814.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
20836.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
然後開始抗議然後抗議整個228事件最後演變到了三二事件也就是在水上機場的大幅的這個軍民的一個這個直接可以說是武裝對峙那甚至當時在水上機場爆發的武裝對峙我們知道了還有所謂空投軍糧給在水上機場的人所以整個228事件發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
20841.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
20865.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
最重大的衝突就是從嘉義的火車站延伸到了水上機場那水上機場就在現在北回車站的正對面所以以這段故事來說我們認為說嘉義我們在於規劃這個鐵路高架化的公共藝術的時候那以及現在我們對於不當遺址我剛講了嘉義火車站以及北回 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
20866.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
20891.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
機場前面這裡都是屬於不當遺址那我們基於對文化不當遺址的保存我認為鐵道局有責任在於規劃這些公共藝術的時候必須要把這些不當遺址他們當年所發生的元素不管用怎樣的呈現方式要在這兩個地點把這些元素把它放到公共藝術裡面這個有問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
20895.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
20919.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
報告委員您提的這個建議非常好啦我覺得這個歷史的記憶在當地還是必須要做一些呈現畢竟當時發生事情就是交通運具的周邊所發生的這個歷史的印記一直在那個地方所以我們目前正在研議這件事情那剛好委員現在有這個建議我們就把它現在在研議中對所以我現在其實我要趕快把 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
20920.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
20947.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
這個訊息要給你們因為接下來立法院文化委員會也正在審理不當遺址的一個保存的一個條例所以未來這個相關的法案是要整併在一起的那你把它整併在一起看的話整個228事件在嘉義發生最嚴重的這個軍民衝突的一個地點那水上這個車輛基地或者是這個嘉義車站都是應該要慎重考量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
20948.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
20973.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
所以在講這個部長我覺得你這樣一個善意的回應我就很感動我覺得我要把整個這個故事講完因為嘉義在228事件是好多我們自己很讚的這些社會的賢達在228事件犧牲就包括陳澄波好多人都在這個事件犧牲所以在嘉義過去曾經有一個爭議就是我們要興建228紀念碑 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
20973.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
20998.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
那228紀念碑咧原本他就把它要用在228公園228公園當時有一個銅像叫做無縫銅像那後來有一個鄒族嘉義鄒族原住民鄒族的年輕人把無縫銅像把它拉倒後然後決心說在這個銅像這裡把它改成228紀念碑那後來沒有在沒有在我剛講的地點他就選擇在彌陀路跟忠義路的地點叫做228紀念碑 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
20999.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
21025.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
大家都說那裡交通車流量多所以那一個紀念碑放在那個地點又會影響到交通所以後來曾經辦了一個iVoting的一個票選iVoting票選結果你知道哪裡是票選第一名嗎有三個地點叫228紀念碑原址第二個就是228紀念公園第三個就是嘉義火車站這三個地點然後讓大家票選票選出來嘉義火車站第一名大家認為應該是人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
21026.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
21054.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
大家認為說228的元素在嘉義火車站那就是所有人用iVoting投出來的票選第一名主要很可惜那個票選是當年這個嘉義市政府肯認的一個票選活動可是後來沒有執行沒有照iVoting執行看起來有壓力那我覺得整個社會一直在改變現在大家對於轉型正義的想像已經不是那麼會有那麼大的壓力那我們應該要勇敢就去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
21055.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
21072.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
這個地方過去發生這樣的歷史,我們就是要用公共藝術把它呈現出來,然後在公共藝術的背後用一些文字上的一個載述,可以讓我們後代的子孫都知道過去在我們家裡車頭,在我們家裡機場發生的事情,這都要讓大家知道,好不好好,這個我們一定會做好,謝謝,感謝好,謝謝蔡易瑜委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
21079.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
21089.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
林月琴 林月琴 林月琴委員不在鄭振前 鄭振前 鄭振前委員不在好現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
21090.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
21116.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
本席因為配合大家時間已晚所以本席就提出書面的這些執行因為要配合大家那另外另外一個我特別交通部我們林師長跟黃師長我本席非常重視的就是我們行人專用實相這個政策那這個政策啊我看起來我們當然已經發現問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
21118.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
21133.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
但是確實也有做可是我看所有資料做了比較符合我們的政策的只有台北市那其他六都看起來這個政策雖好但是推行 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
21134.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
21163.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
緩慢所以我要拜託部長督促一下這對行人安全跟人車征道的政策是有關所以我要拜託部長要督促兩位師長這個要多宣導讓地方政府配合去做好的政策大家中央地方要一併去推行所以我看所有資料不要製造一國兩制宣導是不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
21164.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
21164.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
有些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
21166.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
21194.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
知道這個人行道是怎麼樣走有些人是不知道所以這個就先導不足拜託黃師長跟林師長在部長的督促情況之下這個部分要把他納入重點這要拜託我們部長一下好今天登記執行的委員經已發言完畢做以下的決定一報告及詢答完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
21196.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
21213.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
另外 林德虎委員 黃建豪委員 蘇清晴委員吳宗憲委員 邱振軍委員 林國成委員 所提書面執行列入紀錄並刊登公報委員執行中要求提供相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
21215.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
21237.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆所以今天謝謝各位各單位的列席的官員還有我們媒體朋友我們本日會議結束現在上會謝謝大家感謝大家謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
21247.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
21270.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
謝謝 |