| IVOD_ID |
166302 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166302 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-4-36,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-10T11:42:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-10T11:53:04+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a128e1119a2c25c015ac45d8fa331e03a68b3568d601d3dc19f30473e88220b32a31a243c72cc49e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
莊瑞雄 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:42:01 - 11:53:04 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、財政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查監察院函請審議「審計部組織法第七條、第十條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 謝謝主席有請我們陳瑞民省記長還有我們權敘部王市長還有任總 任總有來專委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
47.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
沈議長 我看今天去答詢其實是很懇切但是我看很多人都誤會了我們審計部的功能都想說你們是算小的其實你們實在不是算小的你們算在監督的啦 最主要是說監察權 那就罷休啦那我看你們今天在審計部組織法裡面的修法裡面這個倒也不是一個程序的問題是國家財政監督可不可以真正有效的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那我想首先要肯定審計部願意追上時代提出智慧的審計還有永續的審計還有韌性的審計這些方向很好這個部分就完全支持但是從整個組織架構大調整立法院當然還是要幫人民把關我看今天各 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
85.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
都有提出他的一個修正案那這個確保這整個修法裡面不是被誤解也不是被誤用你看這個第七條裡面你說最多三位副審計長這個就是說政務你要說政務副首長那我首先講就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
118.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
全序部你們會有意見仁總你們比較有意見你的意思就是說二級機關內的副首長通常都是定額我要請教今天因為聽審計長講了那麼多全序部師長這邊我倒還沒有聽到你們真正的看法王師長你們對審計部今天提出來的這個正副副審計長你們真正的疑慮到底是什麼你們就說好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
138.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
沒有 那個政務副審計長這一塊情緒部沒有意見因為這個是他們去准用中央行政機關組織基準法那中央行政機關組織基準法是人總這邊負責的他們主管這個法案所以就政務副所長這一塊我們沒有意見你們沒有意見對 尊重那個好來 這樣我聽人總你意見是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
145.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
164.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個部分原則上我們就是基準法適用的部分目前就是依照19條還有38條的設計但是原則上因為沈記長他確實在憲法上104條的部分是由總統提名後立法院同意跟一般的行政機關的二級機關有所不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
190.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以如果說這個部分在那個基準法適用上要做一個排除的話可以訓明理由看看它的特殊性質是什麼然後來予以做一個調整這樣 以上所以您的意見是什麼 說白話說白話就是沒有原則上就尊重那個審計部規劃跟立法院決議這樣意見就變一致了但是審計上我必須要問的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
191.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
201.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你現在就是說 你說最多三人 當然寫得很彈性啦很彈性的就是說 你到底你有到底要做什麼事你業務上的曲折啊 其他的考量 這個倒沒有講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我成立了我從那個85年到現在那個預算監督規模從11兆跑到了27兆那我的功能從監督要走向洞察走向前瞻這個整個就是說我的功能是要加大的是說要剛剛講的就是要預警 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
241.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
很好,你說功能這個我贊同但是你這一位的政務副審計長功能你把它定位在哪裡他是對於協助我幫忙做政策規劃審計方向的規劃這一方面來做這個確實是講這個倒是通但是早上我看你聽那麼多委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
257.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個我自己決定的 因為我去到那裡 這些我都自己決定的沒有 大家那些都誤會啦 那個政府要用這個 我是看那個四官組組法就兩個一個 現在要成立嘛 就一個政府可以來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
305.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
幫忙整個幫忙政策的規劃 感冒風雄這樣啦這是當時站出來的理由 就是主要是這樣主要是走無的坑路啦OK 全序部今天其實他講的 報告裡面也講得很清楚啦就是說 你這個非主管的比率高達150% 跟其他同級狀況機關差距很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
306.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
328.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以我剛才審計部 全序部剛才在這裡說你們 我要請教你們當初設計質等到原額的時候到底有沒有忽略了什麼你說會不會引發社會對是不是藉由修法來擴張這樣一個編制 大家這樣想嘛全序部我看他可能就是站在這樣的一個立場對 他有他的主軸是 那全序部 我也不用問你 你的報告很清楚你說你也要回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
349.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這樣喔 因為這樣 我心結 心結根本是要獨立行使之前你若不是叫做審計官 審計機察 審計員 你不可以出來查詢所以我所有的一級主管啊 都算是心結內 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
351.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
359.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
雷劍啊 他才可以出去查証所以你看起來 很多人 其實喔病人的機關都結了所以他們都 我今天才說心情不太好那就是大家都一直為我而來啊我都叫他們要做事情啊要查那個高原地啊 我也抱歉說叫我查總緣合法 我也不敢沒查啊他叫我做柴化法的評估 我也不敢沒評估啊他叫我做做那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
380.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
380.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
還有一個霸凌的我也是查 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這是對國家有好事 這是給他們的功能不要說都在監督那些吃飯的 那些餐盒的費用 什麼的怕給他比較大的 所以你要做這個 你沒有比較高的錢都用那些 我新界員 五到七點的 占百分之四十幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
412.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
414.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那可憐耶 你要把阿姨提到時節啊 時節 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
419.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
428.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這是一個惡性循環你如果說因為那個單位沒有十幾個他也十二三個 大家說我也要來試他試 都扛過 都來我這裡 還要來試啊我沒有來到這裡 給大家吐一點口水對不起我的動員好啦 你說得這麼乾脆對啦 要說得這麼乾脆我要問你的就是 其實啦你剛講到那個前瞻的問題喔所謂就是說 超前你看這個很顯然 不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
448.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
469.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個後面的整個採劃法會怎麼樣的一個演變但是從明年開始啊或者說往後開始可以預期的就是地方財政一定大幅增加他說錢一定越來越多如果這塊來講地方在那裡 很多人在開支但是地方的審計處裡面人手又不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
473.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
卡車又不夠所以你這次修法增加了人力你到底有沒有包含整個財化法你通過以後的風險的一個係數如果說地方未來那個財源增加30%那你地方的審計處查核能力跟不上還是中央錢賣掉變成地方爛賬那中央又要來背鍋這個對整個不管什麼人接受這個都是一個國家很嚴肅的問題你最後這個問題解釋清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
502.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
518.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
委員會的票一整件事 我憂心忡忡我憂心忡忡 所以我今天因為我今天投的這是我的組織中央的我地方是有九人 我的法定是在我的法定下線還有兩百萬的 所以我去投三十六個 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
519.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
523.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就是因為 國務院也要問我這個啊我沒有去討論 有討論有討論就最少我有去討論有去討論 對委員有交代有方法我就來做 沒有方法 我想其他的辦法要成功一個事情 一定還有其他的方法但是 人是最基本的這是跟委員做這個報告 我也憂心忡忡修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
564.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
是給你們更大的權力也是資源但是責任其實也更重啦對 謝謝譬如說我為地方 我為台北市議員起來我也非常清楚啦你們地方審計處長的一個職等其實啦 實在是要讓他們這樣加工委不是只有加薪而已啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
564.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
569.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如果沒有的話,我再看六都國局署,那些都很無關的那一天起床,你的署長,小朋友而已,你只等坐在那裡,講話你就跟人家有差勁沒有啊你說你這一次,其實你把地方的審計署長只等拉拉繞檢認12到13我講一句實在的,這個我完全同意啦你自己坐在別的國局,也可以跟人家說,來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
593.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
看著我 看著我講話你也走過去 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 笑我 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
612.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
619.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
責任更加重大好不好好 我們會來努力這個郭委員在財委會我領教過他要給我很多的都不是財務方面的都是國家住住方面的糾結案件 質跟量那一定要同步要提起身上一個強大的審計部是一個國家財政健康的基石這個其實都是在為整個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
641.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
658.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
為了整個下一代建立一個更透明更負責的台灣啦好 謝謝 謝謝我們都連行政優良案例都用出來像嘉義關派人去輔導那個趙復原我這就到家服務啊我也用作行政優良案例啊好 嘉義關好 謝謝 謝謝 |