| IVOD_ID |
166299 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166299 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-4-36,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-10T11:21:58+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-10T11:32:07+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a128e1119a2c25c05732b7eaf69cc425a68b3568d601d3dc19f30473e88220b32cfcc21c557743ff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳思瑤 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:21:58 - 11:32:07 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、財政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查監察院函請審議「審計部組織法第七條、第十條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。） |
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請審計長請審計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
8.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
30.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
辛苦了 沈記長沈記權之所以存在就是要監督預算的執行就是要審查政府財務的支出就是要來積查財務有沒有不法沈記權的存在也拿來用於考核財務的效能當然就是要看守我們的財政紀律 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
31.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
52.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
所以我手上的這一本呢這是第二冊第一大冊是分重要的施政議題我手上的這一冊就是依各公務機關你們去作為單位來提出的審核意見那我這邊整理出來的是各個部門當然各部會跟地方政府是你們去查查預算執行的大宗佔96%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
55.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
82.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
但其他院計之間也是有啦只是我覺得我一直很好奇喔立法院的預算執行沒有值得特別來好好審查一下審計一下的嗎過去歷屆你們每年的這一本喔對於立法院的審和意見其實都非常少耶一面都不到耶一面都不到耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
83.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
90.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
有特別對立法院特別給予什麼樣子的方便還是說立法院的執行都是沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
92.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
113.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
謝謝委員考慮到這個問題 非常謝謝第一個我們損盡 因為要損盡 剛剛講要二十七十一個人要損盡六百多億我支持人力增加 但是我是說全部立法院在我們的評估 它是十幾億 它大概也沒有大共識三十六億 比我還清楚 有三十六億 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
118.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
121.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們的審計像這一種我們都用電腦在跑就RPA晚上的時候它就在跑有問題我們會通知我們是抓風險性還有它的規模性所以 審計長我懂你的意思你的意思是說你當然會照過有非常清楚的步伐你一定查有執行有清楚的問題你一定會查核但是我並不認為依預算規模來決定你審計的力道 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
147.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
173.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
絕對不應當是這樣對立法院我們來看看我提幾個我看到的我從國會助理到現在自己擔任立委在立法院時間真的加起來前前後後已經20年以上了我常常覺得很奇怪立法院常在換電視我不曉得昭緯辦公室有沒有這個去年新的戒旗換一次今年4月又換一個電視 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
175.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
186.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
然後我來換的時候我還非常訝異的跟我們總務處的同仁說啊有沒有壞掉?有沒有壞掉?用的很新啊然後就來敲敲打打又換電視 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
188.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
211.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
有沒有過於腐爛啊去年換今年又換我不曉得為什麼這有沒有執行面的過於浪費呢而我也覺得常常在換電話當然我助理說電話換的沒有電視的頻率高可是呢泰幻畫機呢一次都是2900台3000台喔一次都是7000萬起跳的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
212.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
240.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那相較於我們立法院在審查其他機關的院計的預算譬如說監察院監察院去年被砍到97%、98%業務費都沒有了他們連買衛生紙都綁手綁腳立法院花錢是大手大腳所以我提點給您不必然有什麼不法只是說有沒有過於浪費或腐爛好 再下一頁我也赫然發現立法院的中心大樓電梯常常壞啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
241.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
269.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
然後呢 該修 確實該修因為這是辦公的需求 更是安全的需求可是呢 我赫然 真的是赫然發現居然立法院去年修電梯是拗行政院買單餒是去請行政院用他的二倍金來支付立法院中心大樓兩千四百 兩千三百五十萬的預算立法院沒有預算嗎為什麼是要行政院買單呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
300.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這都很怪啊所以我用這個案例告訴您對於立法院的預算的執行也是要叫企鋼 叫補來該審計 該審核我們都要做好嗎好 我們只要會照委員的意思我們就會查該查就查 也不是務司要叫你查你才查是本來當於你們的職責就要來進行相關的審計下一頁剛剛我們中嘉賓幹事長也提了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
301.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
329.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
現在有立委提案連公費助理的人數上下限要刪除而且立委可以統籌運用免減拒核銷這個助理費助理費一夕就成了立委個人的小金庫一年自費可以高達780萬剛剛您回答我們嘉賓幹事長你說現在很厲害我們用這個叫做數位審計你一定查得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我非常好奇耶免檢據核銷你怎麼查得到你是立委肚子裡的蛔蟲你是潛伏在立委辦公室裡的小帳房嗎我們不要講你怎麼查就從制度面來講如果制度一開始歪了你後面審計人再怎麼辛苦去查核那其他都賣戶期啦賣戶期啦啦所以就這個制度面這個修法要注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
356.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
357.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
要注意是不是要好好的 嚴肅的不可為 就不要強而為之啊這要注意 因為這個影響因為這些助理啊 已經是整個立法院很重要的一環不要去影響到他們 讓他們安心安定 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
400.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個是很重要 我同意所以我建議修正您的說法您絕對不可能有這種滔天本領好 我同意這個惡法如果修了下去免檢去核銷你用什麼數位審計都沒有辦法AI再強也不可能去查到這些立委的小金庫怎麼濫用 怎麼濫花所以說審計權就是要嚴格去審核下一頁 我非常支持下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
401.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你的三個條文我都支持可以正向討論至於你們跟權序部跟人總之間適用條文適用的法律這個可能需要再大家再參詳一下好但是增加你們的副審計長也好或者是你們的這個值等要提高或是人數的提升我都支持我認為都可以正向的討論下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
449.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為預算連年增加 這個你們都講了從15年來 人數還是336人沒頂沒當但是總預算卻增加了63%基於 你剛剛講預算規模當然你可能需要更多的專業人力下一頁而且我支持你未來的專業人力更需求性更大是因為才化法的大災難來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
478.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
分配不正義 事權沒有統一財政沒了紀律 配套又沒有提出之下下頁地方財政紀律就很可能大舉的惡化也就是蚊子館越蓋越多加碼非法訂設服的補助會越來越腐爛或者是各項不經濟的支出可能也會越來的越惡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
479.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
494.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為這個修法本身是權跟錢權沒有統一未來你們審計的人力真的要有滔天本領這個部分你們有什麼因應剛剛有像這個非常謝謝委員這個錢下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
496.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
511.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
一定說 我要加臨時人員 我要加營養午餐 我要哪個都這個地方租住 我們雖然但是這個財政就會慢慢輸口 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
512.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
515.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
財政的豬園使用效率就會變所以我剛剛提出我要一些審計人員如果審計人員行政單位 行政院沒給我準備用聯合審計運營我支持你們提升人力但是剛剛前一位質詢的王宏威委員認為在國防預算你們可能要組小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
535.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
554.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
來嚴格審計國防特別預算的之用我反而認為畢竟國防預算連第一關排案都被擋住了什麼時候通過也未定之天但是被強行表決通過的裁劃法已經造成地方可見的財政紀律的惡化你們倒是應當針對這個地方的沒有計劃錢一堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
559.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
574.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
錢下來了 市權沒有整合 沒有統一這種腐爛的經濟不支出的之用才是你們目前要鎖定所有的專業的審計人才集中對於地方政府新上路的才化法之後你們該做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
574.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
597.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們會照委員的意思 因為我們在查113年的時候發現我們提出了1777項的審計意見以後可能超過3000項都有可能因為以之前的預算是4165億的增加我們是希望設計一套可以可行可久的制度 不會造成財政機率的歐化但是如果沒辦法的話 我們自己啊 審計出手 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
598.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
605.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好啦 審計當自救啦已經看到的地方財政的惡化跟不經濟的支出你們就要未雨綢繆好不好讓審計權發揮正向的功能好 謝謝 |