| IVOD_ID |
166295 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166295 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-4-36,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制、財政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-10T11:08:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-10T11:21:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:54 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a128e1119a2c25c02eb4caad937dc9bda68b3568d601d3dc19f30473e88220b3d71fa32a71faafad5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王鴻薇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:08:38 - 11:21:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、財政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查監察院函請審議「審計部組織法第七條、第十條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
7.893 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 謝謝主席 我請我們沈記長請沈記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
15.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
41.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員好好 沈議長好就是這一次要偵涉我們的政務副審計長那當然因為過去大家都覺得我們的審計部針對行政院各項決算那基本上都有做到獨立的公正性那每一次審計部的報告也受到包含立法院的委員還有外界的一個重視那大家比較擔心的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
這個政務副審計長他會變成一個酬庸性政治性的任命不過因為我現在我剛才也也幫忙連署就是我們翁曉琳委員有特別提到就是加注就是我們政務副審計長他仍然給他給予他一個他必須具有一定專業的資格那因為就是有關於翁曉琳委員所提供的那個版本您個人也同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
70.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
78.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
對 因為大家美國委員都對我的有政務委員以後對我們損盡獨立性會產生阻擾那產生阻擾對信任就產生那個所以增加不必要的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
91.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
強化政務副審計長的我們都接受的資格只要強化他的獨立還有專業他的獨立跟專業性能夠確保他不是空降或者是酬庸或者來當監軍的所以基本上那就是翁曉琳委員那個修正動議因為我剛才也連署那基本上我們對於偵涉政務副審計長我們就會給予支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
113.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
130.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
只要我們可以秉出我們剛才所說的疑慮另外有一個很重要的議題要就教於沈記長就是我們現在不管是明年度的總預算或者行政院送到立法院來的1.25兆的有關於國防的特別預算受到高度的重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
144.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
但是事實上就是我們有關於軍事支出的特別預算這也不是第一次那我們來看這個部分是其實大家討論的非常多的就是以我們從109年開始實施的新式戰機採購的特別預算的說出執行情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
168.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們可以看到在今年的9月30號為止我們已經實現的預算數已經高達84.2%已經實現的預算數84.2%但是呢它的問題就是到目前為止預算數執行率高達84% |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
201.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
但是呢一架戰機都看不到就是F16VR照理說他今年就已經開始陸陸續續交建到明年底應該全數交建完畢這個是一直外界大家很關切的好所以像這樣的狀況就是我想在我們審計部去做這個決算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
226.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
檢查的時候 審查的時候一定會對像類似這樣的預算執行你執行就是錢出去貨不來錢出去貨不來這個你們一定會提出相關的特別提醒或糾正我們再來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
229.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
252.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
就是我們在這一次1.25兆裡面的國防預算也就是所謂強化防衛韌性及不對稱戰力計畫的特別預算其中有一個非常重要的項目就是有關於無人載具及反制系統就是無人機 可能無人艇 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
253.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
277.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
可是問題是在我們公務預算國防部的公務預算裡面其實過去從很多年度113年度114年度通通都有無人機的採購計畫在公務預算裡面就有但是呢它的問題所呈現的你可以看到我框出來的以今年度來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
278.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
304.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
無人機反制防禦系統的預算執行情況支用率極低不是極低而已是極極極低我為什麼在講呢有的呢只有1%都不到很多1%不到就代表根本沒有執行根本沒有執行也就是雖然編列了大筆的預算在無人機的採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
305.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
306.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
可是呢 它執行率極低 以114年度也只有遙控無人機防禦系統啊 致用率達到10% 這已經是最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
百分之十是最高其他的我剛才講非常非常低好 所以這樣的狀況不是我們今天錢已經花出去但是貨戰機根本不到或者這個無人機我們編列大筆預算過去公務預算已經編列大筆預算但是他沒有辦法執行為什麼沒有辦法執行就是他都驗都不過啦好 都沒有辦法沒有辦法通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
360.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以他就不敢支用那支用率這麼低然後現在還要去編列1.25兆所以這就是我們今天要針對這些預算今天不是一個單純的說你一定要支持你不支持你就是不支持台灣的國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
362.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這樣的一個簡化的我覺得這並不是我們去審查預算或者監督預算的一個基本態度我再來看後面過去在我們很多都是討論說我們的特別預算編列太多特別預算有特別預算真的很特別嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
402.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
可是你現在看喔光是國防特別預算從蔡英文政府到賴清德政府到目前為止我們光是國防特別預算已經這個已編列前面是已經被通過的嘛後面1.25兆是現在送進來已經高達1.8兆已經高達1.8兆之多所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
411.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
沈機長我要問你的事情是當我們現在不管是公務預算也好或特別預算也好當國防預算這麼這麼的龐大的時候是不是應該去有一個專門的監督機制甚至監督機構因為過去對於特別預算很多的財政學者說什麼叫特別預算呢特別預算就是特別好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
什麼特別好呢 特別好過像這個預算 你敢看立刻說你是不支持國防立刻說你是中共同路人還有一個特別好用這個特別預算一邊好幾千億過去我們前瞻也看到有多少浪費而造成了文子館然後根本沒有效益的事情他讓行政單位非常好用另外一個特別好混 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
469.748 |
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488.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
很好混啊 而且因為他這好幾年啊好幾年你還看不到能不能執行他的預算啪 已經匡列在那裡好 所以我們針對特別預算如此腐爛好 如此對行政單位如此好用如此好混 而我們國防預算如此之高所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
489.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
511.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沈記長就您的一個特別的專業來講我們現在正面對不管是公務預算國防金 明年的國防預算就佔了總預算的三分之一然後又有1.25兆的國防特別預算在那裡我們是不是應該先研議一個就是應該成立一個專門的機構監督的機構或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
515.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
或者是我們要有一個特別的監督機制不然的話我們悶著頭通過這麼多的預算就會形成我剛才所講的預算執行的率很高但是看不到東西來 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
530.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
546.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為現在持續率很高錢花的很多看不到東西不然就是錢變得很多但是我花不出去錢變很多但是對不起我就是花不出去因為我想可能有些你明明是已經不合格的或者檢驗沒有辦法通過的我也不敢採購啊所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
550.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
566.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
沈機長您覺得我在講針對國防預算應該有一個專門監督機制或者一個專門監督機構或一個專門監督小組您個人的看法怎樣好 謝謝委員如果委員相信我我們會回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
567.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
585.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
成立這個那個查核小組國防預算 國防預算小組你就不用再那個我如果相信我選舉部所以你選舉部有這個能力我有這個能力有這個能力 因為我知道你們有很多專案調查第二個剛剛講F16那個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
591.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
614.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
為什麼80%戰機還沒來 它是經過 都在美國做它在住工程 像我們蓋一個樓房 蓋到幾層我們的會計上就可以賺帳 所以那是賺帳的但是還沒有蓋好 沒有賺帳的 我們剃掉它讓它沒實現 它沒有蓋的 我們剃掉它三四百億 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
616.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
629.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
還有他送了太多錢去美國我們說你要停下來他慢了這個我們得扣掉國防部也照我們的意思你扣了多少錢370幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
632.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
642.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以就是你說因為那個貨都沒有進來所以你不要再匯錢了因為進度慢了但是他有在做最近聽到的消息大概明年就有戰機進來明年才進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
649.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
655.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
但是國防部都不確定明年可以全數到貨油因為這個國際的變化多所以第一個 省紀長你的意思說你們省紀部已經有針對F16V的新式戰機的採購你們已經有專案小組在做有在做追蹤 在做審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
670.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
697.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那未來我剛剛講的不管我們公務預算或特別預算金額這麼龐大你們也會成立專案小組來針對國防預算來這樣子每一個案子來做監督比如說你無人機採購這麼多你就要去監督他如果這個大案給他通過順利通過我們會來負責做方面的審計再來我給你一個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
698.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
712.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
如果特別預算有一個好處他都把這些事情集在一起他如果散在總預算大家不一定錢冒看不出來所以特別預算有他特別預算的優點 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
713.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
736.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以這個給委員做這樣的一個補充因為大家對特別預算我覺得你在這邊已經有點在幫他們講話特別預算特別預算特別好用啦對於行政單位當然啦但是特別預算的腐爛特別預算的腐爛事實上會對財政造成極大的負擔特別預算的裁員是哪來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
737.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
741.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
大部分都舉債啦 都是舉債嘛所以當我們那麼高的特別預算那就代表我們要舉債這麼多對不對國家的財政慢慢都在好轉我們是希望像每年都能夠超收來補充這些今年沒有超收喔 我都有在追耶今天很奇怪喔 經濟成長率15年來的新高 但是竟然 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
762.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
772.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
沒有超收預算他把稅數加大了這是另外一個問題經濟成長並沒有在稅收裡面完全的顯現謝謝 |