| IVOD_ID |
16629 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16629 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-30T08:30:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-30T13:08:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:37:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e001fad9b8cd413af9e564336fc7700a1f7d7f547ae197440ede4273338b91dda5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查「保險法」15案：
一、行政院函請審議、本院委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員王世堅等18人、委員徐富癸等16人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員林思銘等18人分別擬具「保險法部分條文修正草案」等8案。【後3案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】
二、本院委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「保險法增訂第一百二十三條之一條文草案」案。
三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員陳超明等16人、委員羅智強等19人、委員李坤城等23人、委員賴瑞隆等17人、委員王美惠等17人分別擬具「保險法增訂第一百七十四條之二及第一百七十四條之三條文草案」等6案。
【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:34 - 13:08:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1777.83 |
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1799.237 |
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好 請組密報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員與組法定人數好 現在開始開會請議事人員先讀上一次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第三會期財政委員會第九次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百十四年四月二日三日星期三九十六分至十三時九分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1799.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1818.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
地點 群選 九樓大禮堂 出席委員 賴世保委員等14人列席委員 葉元之委員等18人列席官員 財政部 政治理性 華經濟部長次賴建信 環境部 衛福部 法務部等單位代表及其相關人員 主席賴召集委員 世保報告事項 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定 議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1819.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1845.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
報告事項一討論事項一審查貨物稅條例三十四案一委員院知董二十一人拟據貨物稅條例三除部分條文草案案二委員廖先祥等十六人拟據貨物稅條例三除第八條條文草案案三台灣民眾黨團拟據貨物稅條例第十一條第十一條之一及第三十七條條文修正草案案四委員邱若驊等二十人拟據貨物稅條例第十一條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1846.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1873.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
委員魯明哲等16人委員銀寬恆等19人委員羅廷偉等16人委員賴世保等21人委員邱振軍等22人委員徐欣盈等27人委員翁曉琳等17人委員羅明才等16人委員郭國文等17人委員王宏偉等24人委員廖偉祥等17人委員徐宇貞等21人委員黃建斌等16人委員林詩明等21人委員萬美玲等16人分別擬據護稅條例第11條之一條文修正查案 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1876.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1900.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
等十五案六 委員李坤成等二十四人擬拒獲稅條例第十一條之一第十二條之五及第十二條之六條文修正草案七 委員鄭天才等十九人委員林思明等十九人委員圖全吉等十七人委員陳玉珍等十九人委員馬雲君等十八人委員王世堅等十九人 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1900.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1926.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
委員張志仁等25人委員盧明哲等16人委員王宏偉等19人委員楊瓊英等20人委員邱振軍等24人委員萬美玲等18人委員廖偉祥等17人分別擬拒獲募稅條例第12條條文修正草案等13案8委員邱振軍等19人擬拒獲募稅條例第12條之3條文修正草案案經台灣民眾黨團代表黃珊珊委員賴世寶林思明陳玉珍王世堅葉元之羅廷偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1928.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1944.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
徐欣盈、王宏維、廖偉翔、黃建斌說明提案要職財政部理政次回應委員、提案後繼委員林德福等16人提出質詢財政部理政次經濟部賴長次產發署陳副署長、能源署高組長及相關人員予以答覆決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1945.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1962.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
說明及取答完畢 二委員諮詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會一周內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定三 貨物稅條例三四案另則其繼續審查二 審查人民起願案有關貨物稅條例七案決議另則其繼續審查 宣讀完畢謝謝 那請問各位委員對14路有沒有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1971.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1999.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好沒有異議那就是議事錄確定那請議事人員先讀今日的議程審查保險法十五案一行政院函勤審議本院委員蔡其桑等十九人委員羅廷瑋等十六人委員王世堅等十八人委員徐富奎等十六人委員蔡其桑等十九人委員蔡玉儀等十八人委員林詩敏等十八人分別履具保險法部分條文修正草案等八案二委員鍾嘉斌等二十一人 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2000.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2021.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
拟据保险法增订第123条之1条文草案案3.台湾民众党团委员陈超明等16人委员罗志强等19人委员李坤成等23人委员赖瑞荣等17人委员王美惠等17人分别拟据保险法增订174条之2及第174条之3条文草案等6案宣读而毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2023.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2049.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好 謝謝 那首先先介紹在場的委員我們介紹第一位黃珊珊委員吳秉瑞委員羅志強委員張家俊委員好 那我們介紹議會的政府官員首先我們先介紹金管會主委彭主委 彭金榮彭主委華麗事務處那個林處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2053.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2076.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
銀行局 童局長證取局 我們張振生 張振山 對不起 張振山 張局長保險局 王立慧局長檢察局 賴局長司法院 民視廳 我們謝謝毛法官那法務部 法治司 副司長 謝志明好 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2078.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2102.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本次會議安排審查行政院行情審議保險法部分條文修正草案委員蔡其昌等19人分別凝聚保險法部分條文修正草案委員鍾嘉斌等21人凝聚保險法增訂第123條之1條文草案台灣民眾黨黨團分別凝聚保險法增訂第174條之2第174條之3條 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2108.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2126.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那個條文草案等15案將先請提案黨團代表委員說明提案的要旨以後我們再請金管會彭主委說明及回應黨團委員的一個提案首先我們先請台灣民眾黨黨團代表黃珊珊委員說明提案要旨是我們那個這個提案的時間說明就是三分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2137.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2148.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好 謝謝主席我想今天這個保險法修正草案主要是2022年民事大法庭開始作出108年台抗大字第897號裁定之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2149.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2169.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所有的民事執行處收到大量的保單強職事件進而出現保單強職的各種亂象去年五月台灣民眾黨率先提出了修正草案當時因為有看到很多保單強職的這些問題有些價值準備金只有幾千塊的健康險也被強制執行失去了保護的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2170.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2192.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
也有一些是父母在小孩出生的時候就買的一些保障健康險但是20年後爸媽欠了錢這張保單卻因為父母的債務而被強職導致孩子失去保險的保障112年1月到113年12月總共有70多萬件的保單強職事件造成了非常多的民眾的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2193.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2219.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
一夕之間消失在這些案子裡面我們發現了債權人是資產管理公司的有18萬件銀行大概有40多萬件兩者合計是58萬多件佔整體案件的75%銀行跟資產管理公司透過對保單的強制執行他並不是所謂的弱勢債權人但是他們把保單的準備金那一點點錢都擠出來造成了民眾很大很大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2220.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2235.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
損害所以造成很多的孩子失去了長成年以後的健康保障所以台灣民眾黨版本設計的部分是受益人的介入權受益人可以在得知相關的保單要被執行的時候可以他有他來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2236.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2264.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
墊付償付所有債務的金額讓債權人可以拿回錢也不會讓他的保單被執行這一點後來在今年三月金管會送的草案裡面也把它納入那我們要確保債權人跟債務人他們的權利的橫平目前為止台灣民眾黨的版本在所所謂價值準備金十萬塊以下的保單健康保單跟傷害保險或者是一年期的人壽保險不得作為強制執行的標的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2266.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2280.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
金管會的版本是三個月的基本生活開銷所以這兩個的差距其實並不大因為三個月大概是七萬多那台灣民眾的版本是十萬我覺得這個部分可以進一步的再繼續討論那重點是今天的版本我們希望能夠全面性的來照顧讓傷害險、醫療險跟金管會的版本一樣不應該成為強制執行的標的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2287.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2304.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那有關的受險或投資型保單這個部分是讓債權人跟債務人在他權力平衡的情況下能夠互相作為保障我們希望民眾能夠回到保險的本質保險就是要給他保障所以這個本質不應該被強制性而剝奪以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2307.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2336.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好 接著請王世堅委員 王世堅 王世堅委員不在請林思敏 林思敏 林思敏委員不在請鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在請李坤澄 李坤澄 李坤澄委員不在請蔡其昌 蔡其昌 蔡其昌委員不在請羅廷偉 羅廷偉 羅廷偉委員不在請徐虎葵 徐虎葵 徐虎葵委員不在請蔡玉瑜 蔡玉瑜 蔡玉瑜委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2337.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2343.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
請陳昌明陳昌明陳昌明委員不在請羅志強委員說明提案要旨主席各位官員各位委員今天排案針對保險法174條之二以及174條之三的修正討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2361.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2385.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那事實上從我過去接到的陳情案件那在為陳情人爭取協調過程當中我看到這個修法慢慢的就出現了那原本最高法院民事大法庭108年度抬抗大致第897號裁定或許當下看見的只是一些極端的個案但是真真切切被影響的卻是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2385.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2402.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不同原因陷入經濟困頓的眾多家庭那他們都是急待被法律保障跟受到自身過去辛苦繳納保險所保障之人那所以為什麼會有這麼多不分黨派的委員提案跟重視這個案子那就是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2403.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2418.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
苦民所苦啦 是關切我們的民眾現在真的是受到很大的傷害那今天不只是法律條文的技術性調整它也是關於困頓民眾的安全保障那當然也還有保險制度的信賴根基 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2418.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2436.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
以及我國整體債權制度跟強制執行程序的平衡性我們當然非常支持這項修法但我也要強調不應該片面將解約金就當作是衡量保險是否可抵押的依據應該回到保險的本質從保險金額與保險契約狀態做判準 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2439.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2465.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
才能夠真正實現保險制度的立法目的也能夠保障投保人與受益人的權益行政院版本主張以解約金額度做區分保險契約是否可做強制執行的標的因為解約金為具體可執行的價值所以有實務的操作性但事實上這樣的做法也可能導致偏離的修法我們的保障的初衷首先大部分的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2466.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2486.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
購買保險的本質是風險保障它不是單純的財富累積工具如果有這類型的商品可以設計來排除那投保人繳納保費並不是為了未來中途解約去換取解約金而是認為在面對死亡重大傷病或特定事故能夠提供家人子女受益人一筆穩定的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2487.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2510.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以我們以解約金是否達一定金額作為決定該保單是否受法律保護的關鍵會打擊民眾長期規劃保障的意願那另外解約金的多寡與保障價值並不等同一份剛投保三年的終身受險可能解約金很低但是保障金額卻已經高達數百萬元所以這也是可能要去思考的一個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2511.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2537.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那我同意為了平衡債務人債權人權益跟保險保護的界線應該要適當退縮主張豁免強制執行的保險種類那這些怎麼樣去來去類型化這個我們都可以再來去確認總而言之我希望這次的修法能夠去彌補我們本來之前造成這個保護以及我們的一般民眾的一個很大的傷害我們大家一起來完成這個修法謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2543.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2564.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好 我們補充介紹林德虎委員是接著我們請賴瑞榮委員不在請王美惠 王美惠 王美惠委員不在那接著我們請金管會彭主委說明跟回應黨團及委員提出的提案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2570.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2592.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
主席 各位委員 各位媒體先進 大家早安首先對於貴委員會今天優先審議保險法部分條文修正草案並邀請提出報告表達由衷的謝意以下僅就各項草案以及大院諸位委員所提保險法部分條文修正草案的內容分別提出本會意見 敬請各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2593.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2615.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
鑑於最高法院民事大法庭之裁定後對債務人之受險契約申請強制執行案件咒爭衍生使債務人及其親屬之受險保障喪失且擴及健康及傷害保險契約除此保護可能喪失醫療保障外亦造成執行機關作業負擔增加衍生龐大社會成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2616.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2640.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
為解決衍生問題本會凝聚保險法部分條文修正草案明定不得作為扣押或強制執行標的保險類型同時引入介入權制度且明定保險業作業委託他人處理之法律授權依據及法則及國人得透過保險經紀人向國外之保險業投保之除外規定含送大院審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2641.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2666.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
本次草案主要內容請參閱報告第三至四頁主要內容包括第123條之一 民定可強制執行與扣押之標的及獲免額度第129條之一 第130條 第132條之一民定健康保險及傷害保險不得為扣押或強制執行之標的第123條之二 引入國外借助權制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2667.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2684.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第148條之三第171條之一明定作業委外他人法律授權及罰則第167條之一明定配合政策需要經公告之保險得向國外保險公司投保第168條之七配合洗錢防治法修正刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2685.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2706.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
有關大院委員羅廷偉等、委員王世堅等、委員徐富奎等、台灣民眾黨團委員陳超明等、委員羅志強等、委員李坤成等、委員賴瑞榮等、委員王美惠等,分別擬拒之修正條文草案,真定不得作為扣押或強制執行標的之保險契約類型之規定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2707.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2728.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
上開各委員提案之條文內容與本會於去年113年6月至8月預告的條文內容相同為外界對前開本會第一次預告條文草案多有不同意見如認為獲免額度可能過高恐影響債權實現債權之利益而且將大幅增加作業負擔等 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2729.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2738.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
鑒於債權人尚非必然屬財力資源優勢之一方又前接預告草案內容與各委員提案條文內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2739.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2759.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
需逐漸確認合計解約金及保險金額因此均衍生相當巨大之社會成本令考量保險金之請求權與本次民事大法庭裁定係針對債務人之、要保人之情形有別原本次修法仍僅就要保人具有之權利及解約金為必要之規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2760.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2781.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
原建議一行政院提案修正就人壽保險及年金保險採各有效契約之解約金債權位於一定金額標準者及不得作為扣押或強制執行標的之規定二有關委員羅廷偉等委員王世堅等委員徐富奎等委員鍾嘉斌等 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2782.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2793.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團委員樓志強等委員李坤城等及委員賴岳榮等及委員王美惠等擬拒之條文修正草案增訂介入權制規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2794.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2818.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
委員所提介入權人六個月內不行使其權利消滅之規定考量六個月行使期間雖可使介入權有充分準備時間為將使執行作業期間延長增加執行機關負擔也恐將影響債務人投保權益未立法律關係禁訴確定原建議仍維持原定行使期間三個月之規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2820.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2842.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
針對委員所提介入權人資格範圍限於對被保險人具有保險利益者之規定為提升未來介入權實施效益並考量條文已經納入需經原邀保人及被保險人同意以可有效防阻道德風險原建議依行政院提案修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2844.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2865.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
而各委員提案常在後須由執行機關通知史稱變更效率之規定為免去審核借入權資格及通知之負擔原建議借入權生效要件依行政院提案修正為由借入權人書面通知保險人有關委員蔡其昌等委員蔡一羽等委員林思敏等 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2867.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2892.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
擬據修正條文增訂不得作為扣押或強制執行標的保險契約類型介入權之規定與行政院提案內容相同至於豁免作為扣押或執行標的門檻金額除委員林思明等18人所提案採用政府公告之最低工資之三個月金額外其委員提案均與行政院提案條文相同本會對於該豁免門檻金額之決定取決 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2895.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2910.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
在確保檢證辨明降低社會成本並橫憑債權債務人權益等立法目的前提下尊重大院各委員會各委員審議共識有關委員蔡其昌等委員羅廷偉等委員王世堅等委員徐富奎等 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2912.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2926.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
延提之修正草案有關保險業無法承保特定對象經保險經紀人向主管機關申請核准者得向國外之保險業投保之規定雖提案與本會預告條文內容相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2927.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2945.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
為有民眾認為預告條文中除疏規定之定義尚非明確原建議依行政院提案修正為除屬配合政府政策需要且經主管機關公告之保險透過保險經紀人向國外之保險業投保者外 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2946.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2961.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
本次函請審議之保險法草案目的在於確保國人與保險契約受強制執行時仍能維持生活經濟安定所必須之基本保險保障發揮保險安定社會功能並兼顧債權與債權人與債務人權益又考量其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2967.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2991.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
超過七成以上為健康保險及傷害保險契約源於其未來修法後得大幅減少保險強制執行案件量緩解法院龐大人力作業負擔有力降低社會成本另亦得完善及強化保險建立法制提升消費者投保權益以上報告敬請各位委員會議指教與支持並祝委員身體健康萬事如意謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2993.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3015.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好 謝謝現在我們開始詢答先做以下的宣告每位出席的委員花言的時間是8分鐘必要的時候得以延長2分鐘每位列席的委員花言的時間是5分鐘那今天上午10點我們截止花言的一個登記本次會議委員若有相關的一個修正動議請進送財政委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3017.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3031.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
議事人員收件 畢立後續的一個審查程序現在依登記的順序 請第一位登記的林德虎委員質詢謝謝那我們預計在嚴寬衡委員質詢後休息十分鐘謝謝 謝謝主席是不是來請金管會彭主委好 請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3046.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3066.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
委員長主委我請教你因為今天要討論保險法條文的修訂那院版草案啦授權保單節約金採用每人每月最低生活費1.2倍來計算的三個月金額那計算他的豁免範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3069.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3090.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
有人認為條件傾斜 傾斜銀行資產公司這些債權人司法院則主張去年參採軍管會意見 把法院執行原則明定小兒中老保險商品不得強制執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3091.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3106.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那結果院版保險法修正草案卻沒有把小兒中老列為豁免的執行標的那我請問主委行政院版的保險法草案為什麼會 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3108.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3131.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個承讓後發生這麼多不同意見的爭議呢謝謝委員提供這個機會讓我來說明一下其實我們這次我們後來整體的考量原來第一版的這些指導原則裡面提到了所謂的排除項目裡面包含了除了契約本身的權益還包括因為契約衍生出來的比如說保險給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3132.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3149.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
因為這個被強制執行的標的是契約保險金是因為這個保險契約所衍生出來的一個權利那並不必然屬於這個債務人比如說還有剛剛提到有關特殊的險種比如說小額中老保險其實小額中老保險不是一個法律的名詞是一個商品的名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3150.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3169.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那過去呢其實它跟我們一般的終身受險並沒有特別的差異只是它在政策上它給予一些參數的設定那我想這部分我們回歸到一個法條的時候我們希望能夠整合的真的回歸到就是我們的本質上針對契約本身的權利那至於說 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3170.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3196.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
如果各位委員對各種的比如說這些排除項目大家有共識我們今晚會是尊重不過我們該講的就是說我們還是回歸到契約為這個強制執行的對象我們盡量不要針對某個特殊的嫌腫特別是小額中老保險不是一個法律周延的名詞所以我們就沒有把它納入主要是這樣跟委員做說明彭主委啊比如院版草案對小額中老保險商品的豁免與否 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3197.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3213.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
金管會是不是受到外界的壓力所以說才發生抗法前後不一的這種狀況我們看我們的條文我們回歸到因為我們人身保險有四大類商品一個叫人壽保險一個叫年金一個叫傷害及意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3214.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3237.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我想這裡比較大的爭議主要是說我們過去的人身保險裡面的人壽保險契約以及年金保險契約人壽保險契約有兩種給付一種是生存給付一種是死亡給付大家比較關心的就是以死亡為主的人壽保險契約但是大家想到比如說比較有可能累積這個比較大的現金價值就是解約金的可能是有關生存給付的保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3237.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3255.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那我想說剛才講小兒中老保險只是一般的險種它並沒有特別我們就把它涵蓋在我們的一般的那個險種裡面就是用人壽保險契約來做一個框架並沒有說特別針對否則我們現在商品非常非常的多我們各式各樣的商品其實各式各樣提供各種保障的產品非常的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3256.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3269.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我請教 因為司法院民視廳民視廳的廳長林俊炎曾表示保單被扣押的標準屬於政策性決定如果今天大家認為保險有 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3272.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3297.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
特殊性要做一些例外的安排其實在保險法這邊的豁免標準其實並不當然要參考強制執行法現有的標準要採取什麼樣的標準我們要尊重主管機關還有立法院的討論這政策性的決定那我請問主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3298.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3323.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
司法院針對保險法修法的立場你認為比現行保險法豁免項目範圍到底是寬還是延呢我想兩個的規範的方法不一樣我覺得有些情況是不一樣比如說我們現在回歸到以這個我們保險法上四大險種裡面這樣的規律的方式我們盡量不要用市場商品的名稱不過我剛才也提到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3324.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3346.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我們社會上有多元的意見比如說我們現在我們知道小和中和保險現在實務上他們已經列入在我們的排除項目之內我只是說假設未來大家有共識希望針對某一類的人壽保險要做一些排除以後他直接考慮的話我是建議不要用一個商品的名稱作為列入法律的這樣能夠用周延的法律名稱來描述這個內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3348.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3374.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那個彭主委啊又或者司法院不希望承擔對債務人執行上的道德的責任所以才會這樣的來回應修法其實不是不是喔不是我上次有提過因為這是一個非常複雜的問題各位可以看得到我們這麼多委員這麼關心提出這麼多的草案代表說這個確實是一個很大的社會關注的問題但是呢就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3375.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3403.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我們上次也提過今晚會修法的時候我們是被動修法其實過去在這麼多年來保險契約一直都不會是一個強制執行的那個對象剛剛也提到因為我們的大法庭裁示以後呢裁開案件量增加我們必須被動去解決這個問題所以我們才會提這個修法我們沒有什麼立場那比如說我們沒有偏向任何誰我們上次講過我們有三個原則第一個我們希望能夠維持保險的最低的社會保障的這樣一個這個概念這一定要維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3404.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3422.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
再來第二個我們要以最低的社會成本來考量再來就是我們要橫評各方的利害關係人我想在大法庭的財事裡面他也特別講到就是說我們必須符合比例原則必須適當的方式去橫評各方的權利我想大法庭財事也講了這件事情並不是要完全以債務人或債權人絕對不是這個考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3424.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3441.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
主委上個禮拜有個新聞標題引起本席的注意那就是金管會全台唯一授權就是必商設炸根據報導這家必商是必享科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3443.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3461.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那涉詐洗錢也就疑似與詐團合作幫助詐團來收取轉換被害人現金那我請問主委金管會對這則新聞有沒有什麼回應當然我們對於像因為其實跟委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3462.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3486.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我們對VASP我們從洗錢上次做完洗錢聲明以後呢實際上這個是先做一個行為的管理我們對他們本身的機構呢我們現在是在今年3月30號以前他們要來採登記制B廠這一家雖然也有提出登記但是在爆發這件事情的時候我們已經派檢察局人員到現場去那我的意思是說他們現在就是因為這樣我們現在還沒有針對這個機構做一個納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3489.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3513.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以這部分我們未來是希望能夠朝這個方向趕快來加緊還有剛剛提到說對外的廣告其實不見得是真的比如說我們只是做洗房聲明而且他只是做一個洗房聲明並不代表他所有的行為都是合法為什麼必享科技必商為什麼會是金管會唯一授權 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3515.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3538.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那是他自己廣告不是這個他有做了一個叫做洗房的聲明我想根據洗房法的時候他在台灣經營這個相關的活動跟業務必須要做完這個聲明才可以來做這件事情那如果他真的是唯一那請問授權魅龍和業務範圍包括哪些部分反之啊如果不是唯一那麼軍管會到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3539.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3549.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
有哪些措施不論現階段或是未來能夠對這些避傷來進行有效的監管 監理我們去年這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3554.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3573.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那個洗錢防濕法修改以後我們從寬鬆的聲明制改成登記制就對這些機構進行管理我們的期限是3月31號沒有提出申請的接下來你還經營這個業務就有刑責處理所以到3月31號呢那有沒有人來申請有有有現在有20 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3576.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3592.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
有31家31家那個主委就本席了解兩年前金管會奉行行政院的指定來擔任具金融投資或支付性質的虛擬資產平台的主管機關並採循序漸進的方式來強化國內虛擬資產平台對客戶之權利的保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3602.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3618.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那主委你曾說今年6月30號以前一定會將虛擬資產專法草案來送入行政院那我請問主委專法草案的制定是不是對虛擬資產加密貨幣的監管賦予一步到位的原則範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3620.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3635.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
跟我們報告我不敢講一步到位但是絕對是朝向更健全更周延的管理我們把那個規範的內容跟相關的罰則行動都大幅的提高而且對他的業務範圍做明確的界定那是不是未來是採取漸進式的開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3638.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3653.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
陳柱委員那個這個指示就是說我們到6月30號我們會把這個條文送進行政院我們現在條文已經在預告我想我們也在持續在對社會溝通這個條文已經在預告在收集各方意見中主委啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3655.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3670.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
譚如寧說過面對虛擬資產和加密貨幣發展台灣絕對不可落後於全球甚至因此錯過了這些珍貴的機會那避想科技啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3672.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3699.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這件案子目前在偵查階段本席不希望預測這個個案的狀況導致加深外界對虛擬資產和加密貨幣未來推動的餘力那我請問主委未來虛擬資產服務法通過之後你認為在安全考量上虛擬服務能不能做到如同民眾我們對銀行的信任那種程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3700.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3722.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我想有的專法裡面的一些的比較更嚴謹的規範必然不管安全度跟周延性一定是大幅提高我想這個當然未來合規的廠商也不見得會那麼多因為這部分我們的條件是變嚴格的我們也希望說這個市場要發展一定要在一個安全穩健的前提才允許它做發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3723.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3729.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我希望這個一定要做到很嚴謹而且讓民眾認為說我只要參與就像我們去銀行一樣他才會放心好不好謝謝謝謝 請吳秉瑞委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3761.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3763.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
主席麻煩請金管會彭主委好彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3768.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3776.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
主委先應媒體要求問一個題外話股票市場從川普關稅政策以來崩盤到17300多點那現在已經回到兩萬以上了 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3781.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3808.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
媒體想要請教你說這個限空令要不要繼續執行我想跟委員報告就是說其實我們的限空令本來就是隨時動態調整我們一個前提上是也在我們對外的發布新聞稿很明確的說明就是我們現在關注了很多的狀況現在還在處於一個有高度不確定當然大家都看到最近我們的整個台灣的資本市場大概隨著國際上面的消息越來越這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3810.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3811.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
你有沒有預估大概還要多久的時間? |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3827.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3843.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這要看我們現在的國際上狀況我想從過去的經驗知道現在很多事情可預測度比較低我們需要比較長一點點的時間來觀察國際上的一些特別是我們國際之間有關關稅的談判的結果以及相關其他經濟參數的改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3846.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3872.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我想無論是現空令或是說這個國安基金的進場都是在股市在非正常狀況之下恐慌心理所實施的政策那如果那樣的狀況解除之後還是要回到股市的正常狀態那當然才是正辦那就希望你考量好 再來我們就請教今天的問題剛剛前面的委員有問到的我就了解因為他們現在是讓小額中老保險這是一個商品名稱它並不是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3875.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3896.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
一個法律名詞也就是說不同的保險公司假設你今天特別一個講一個法律上面講一個小兒中老保險然後這個豁免那我將來保險公司我會推出一個事實上的內容不一定是小兒中老保險但是我就給他掛一個小兒中老保險的這樣子的契約在那邊那這個會發生爭議但是你現在這個原來的他一個豁免的條件裡面有講說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3903.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3928.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
這個直轄市政府宣布的最低生活經費的1.2倍三個月那如果以台北市算起來的話這樣大概是多少錢台北市他們現在一個月是兩萬多嘛乘上1.2乘以3大概是7萬3、7萬4這樣那叫做小額中老保險就你知道市場上目前的小額中老保險如果解約之後他的保險的殘值應該是很低吧既然是小額啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3929.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3958.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那個小額綜合保險是他的保額我們現金就是90萬對那但是因為主要是這個有很大的差異跟你的年紀有關比如說我今天很年輕去買那個小額綜合保險其實我的保費是很便宜要累積到7萬塊的這個解約金非常的那額度會非常的高不是不是我的意思你倒過來說啦就是要跟保險公司解約保險公司要把原來的作業費什麼維約金什麼都扣掉之後才有產值是那你這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3960.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3986.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
豁免如果照你剛剛算法台北市的豁免至少是七萬多塊嘛那本席本來就主張說我們全國要一致不要以生活圈在台北市戶籍在台南工作在台東然後會產生不同的計算會非常的麻煩這個有司法成本在裡面所以我一向主張而且我朝央已經提出來今天我們主席有答應我今天不會租條啦所以我那個朝央應該會來得及我要求照全國最高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3986.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4007.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
直轄市它的1.2倍 乘以三個月嘛所以這個大概將來是會 如果你願意採用這個看法我的意思是說 目前所現存的小額中老保險喔它解約之後的殘值 剩下的價值要高過7萬多塊錢的 幾乎很少啦因為你的保險的總標的 總給付才90萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4013.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4026.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
所以你自己已經投保進去的這個金額你所繳納的金額其實相當有限那相當有限解約之後扣掉違約金扣掉一些手續費還剩下的產值我認為都達不到這個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4027.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4054.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
對就是這個如果說一般狀況的話確實這樣因為但是就是因為假設你是高齡投保的話那個那個保費比較貴因為我們的小兒中保險有個條件就是你可以比較高齡也可以來申請所以這個部分因為他是保死亡險所以年紀越大死亡率越高其他保費是越高的但是就是說這個條件就是會因為不同的年紀差異不過剛剛陳儒委員講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4056.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4072.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我是非常贊成第一個其實假設我們一個保險你繳了保費跟產生解約金之間的過程會有很大的落差我想各位都知道按照保險法的規定我們第一年是沒有現金價值的到第二年才開始就過了一年以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4074.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4100.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
而且前幾年都會非常低啦因為他前面的作業費用會非常的高包括佣金啊包括經紀人的這些費用全部都是要給你算在這裡面的啊我們假設有人故意要用保險去做規避債務這個成本太高我只能說他這個成本太高甚至我以前還跟你談過我認為說這個解約如果是被強制執行有的時候不一定是 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4102.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4123.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
這個投保人的這個問題所以能不能扣這麼多的這個這個違約金解約的金額我曾經跟你討論過這個問題但是如果你後來去了解他的費率結構裡面確實裡面並沒有一個叫做就是因為這個其實要解約收益這個項目所以我們也有認真考慮過這個問題不過剛剛委員有提到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4124.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4150.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那標準就是要不要採用一個比較奇異而且比較容易簡證辨明的做法這點上次委員在質詢的時候也曾經說我們有回去好好研究過這樣的一個可行性就是說確實因為我們的原則就是希望能夠降低社會成本那因為否則像剛剛委員提到雖然我們現在的強化執行的實務上已經有了這個實務但是保險的又更複雜比如說它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4151.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4166.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
人的這個要保的所在地他的住所在哪裡還有生活生活所在地還有這個這個還有居住將來會變這樣執行法院會被被施法成本會非常的高了對如果要逐一去認定那就太累了對如果只是為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4167.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4182.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
滿足我們基本的條件以最低的成本我是覺得剛剛委員提的是可以來考慮啦好另外你的報告第四頁他的第五項講說你們準備修正第167條之一民定署配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4183.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4200.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
政府政策需要且經主管機關公告之保險得透過保險經紀人向國外之保險業投保那言下之意是這樣的保單台灣沒有賣嗎是的主要是台灣沒有賣或是台灣賣的東西沒辦法符合他的需要是那當然也不太可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4202.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4217.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個保單可以為他量身訂做嗎應該也不會吧因為保單都要經過審查因為他有時候是小樣需求其實這個東西當時一個起因原來是我們很多的比如說我們代表國家出國比賽的國手他很多的那個台灣的保單沒辦法滿足他 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4218.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4246.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
還是因為我們的保單事實上都經過保險局審過啦所以你這個外國的保單是不是你們意思你們也要了解所以要非常非常的嚴謹因為我們過去對所謂的地下保單沒有核准的保單我們做非常嚴格的管控我們不希望這個條文有人產生任何疑義說我們在開放這個事情所以前面會加上那幾個很重要的條件好那就另外再問這個美國總統川普當選之後因為他有很多的這個經濟跟財政政策使得全世界都有一個不安定感 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4247.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4261.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那前一陣子也發生了這個美債長期的美債這個大幅拋售所以跌價的問題那跌價會造成說你這個保險公司的上面損失嗎所以我們知道這個所謂的美債我只要期間夠了 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4263.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4277.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
譬如說我十年期最長十年期我十年期到我本金也是全部都拿回來然後每一個每一年所拿到的利息我也拿得到但是因為美債是開放交易所以當美債下跌的時候長期的美債下跌的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4278.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4300.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
帳面上就出現保險的評價損失這個評價損失如果在川普政策的不穩定狀況下有時候會出現比較大的金額那我知道以前金管會就曾經同意說那不一定要馬上去做這個評價損失因為這樣子去對於他的資本失足率有所質疑這個可不可以再請你再說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4301.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4323.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
是這樣主要是因為我們會計上我們在過去這個所謂的債務工具就是債券他會根據你經營模式來區分有一種持有到期其實大部分的保險公司他持有債都是蠻長期他真的就是為了要配合他的負債所以他是以持有到期所以我們常講AC攤銷戶成本他是不隨著評價而去做這個評價的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4324.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4342.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那另外一種當然它是會以交易為目的那當然就要評價還有另外一個OCI的部分我想主要是這樣保險業過去在這個地方因為我們會計制度上是要評價但實際上它經營模式確實是它不會事實上台灣的保險公司持有美債都非常的巨額 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4343.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4366.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
其實比例其實以美債的話公司債比較多其實美國公債比例不高是好那如果是這樣的話將來要實施的新的會計準則的接軌之後這個會不會這個當然就會變化因為我們過去的會計準則是資產會按照那個市價來波動但負債是固定的到了2026明年以後呢就資產跟負債兩個波動他們會重分類 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4367.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4384.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
因為他就必須要把過去這個不平價的他為了配合他的負債他要重分類這時候就能夠同步的去做這樣的波動做所謂的反而更能夠適應現在的狀況是比較能夠能夠吻合整個所謂的資產負債管理的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4384.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4397.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
好 因為我覺得這個美債的波段如果大的話不是只有美國的國家公債它的公事債也有可能出現這樣的狀況這個將來都會有影響還有利率的問題也是一個非常重要的因素謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝接著請內斯堡委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4416.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4444.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
謝謝主席有請金管二的彭主委好 請彭主委委員長主委長首先我想請教先請教因為今天談到保險的相關的題目那這個這個主委是不是態度很清楚贊同應該是我們主席所提到的就是要執行的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4446.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4472.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
除了一些之外 授選的不應該執行 這個態度確定是不是就是成為我們版本裡面 我們希望能夠趕快來解決這個社會非常龐大社會成本的問題我們當然是態度很明確這個龐大有多龐大 這金額有大概多少這個我們從件數來看 因為這個所有的件數都要必須透過我們授選工會去查詢我們看到統計到去年年底大概有超過一百萬件 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4473.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4501.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
金額呢金額我們看不到因為這只有案件必須要查過他一件一件去看所以這是一個比較難的地方大概什麼時候可以全部搞定這件事情假如我們修法過了如果說我真的這個如果說這個會期能過的話就按照剛才看的話那一百多萬件裡面有將近七成三七成四就是我們今天的健康跟傷害這能夠就把它直接就排除掉了這個會期如果通過法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4502.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4518.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
再加六個月可以全部處理完畢嗎這部分就要看我們的司法程序先要有法源嘛再來第二個就是剩下的兩層多如果再把那個門檻再把它做一些排除的話我覺得就可以大幅降低我們修法過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4522.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4538.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
基本上我也態度清楚了你的態度也清楚了我才Plus六個月給你處理完可以不可以處理完跟委員報告這可能要請教我們的司法體系這個我沒辦法代為委員對我們當然希望盡快我們假設站在金管會協助的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4540.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4554.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
就這樣講我再問一個更直接直白的題目好了好不好如果一切都順利沒有遭到任何的阻撓的話半年內消耗完了plus半年是不是可以解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4556.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4573.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我們當然期待越快越好 特別是我們可以來做一些協助假設這裡面很多是由我們金融機構所提出的話我們會盡量的請他們趕快去把這個東西完成所以基本上你樂觀見到修完完畢以後半年內解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4576.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4583.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我當然希望越快越好能夠比他更早我更期待這個我們可能就是真的要請那個但是如果我們的期望是越快越好 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4594.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4621.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
好 你還是沒有回答問題這個我們來看 壽險業淨紙商業跌了2000億主要是匯率的問題 股票的問題債券的問題 三殺根據IFAS 這裡面利息不足要增資喔他有一定的程序對 這個是不是會要求他們因為我查了一下 增資的公司也不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4622.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4624.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
主要現在正在增資計畫執行中的就是一家那當然持續的我們這個增資計畫不斷的會push他們這沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4638.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4654.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
面對台幣可能會持續的升值啊那你們對上市櫃公司的監理的措施有沒有要加強的部分有沒有上市櫃的金融機構嗎還是上市櫃公司上市櫃公司也是你們管的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4654.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4676.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
不是只有金融機構這個我們對上市櫃公司我們是主要上市櫃分兩大塊一個是金融的一個是非金融業對這兩個強度完全不同因為我們對上市櫃公司我們是做一個主要是做資訊的揭露還有整個盡量把它資訊揭露出來這個但我們對金融機構又加上上市櫃我們會看的是金融機構我們對金融機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4678.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4692.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
對他一些財務上面的影響的監控像剛剛委員提到RBC我們按照現在保險法的規定我們要看兩期兩期我們每半年看一次兩次以後呢他就進入到我們的警戒警戒我們會請他提一個計畫計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4696.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4712.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我們覺得再惡化我們就會請他增資這有一定的步驟請問你有沒有因為應付這個川普上來關稅的一個impact之後有沒有對他們要求做壓力測試這個是我們持續在處理確實我們對這個項目不是不是 我的問題是川普是要宣布對等關稅之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4722.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4734.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這樣子造成全世界金融市場大混亂之後你們有沒有因為這樣子要求他們做壓力測試我們其實上有因應的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4734.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4736.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我們有在做這樣情境的分析壓力測試是一個制式的東西壓力測試是全面的 因應影響的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4758.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4784.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
可見得沒有嘛你只是沒有這樣做只是說按照過去慣例到了就要做這個到了就要做那個沒有真正的做壓力測試根據不同的行業我們像我們銀行業的話我們就會沒有我就不講其他行業我覺得真的銀行業其實壓力測試是非常重要的但面對這一次你看美國的股會債三殺的情況之下壓力測試是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4785.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4796.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這我同意你同意吧為什麼不做呢就跟委員講就一部分而已啦你有權任啦我們有做什麼時候可以做全面 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4798.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4815.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這個部分我可不可以請銀行局局長來跟各位說明一下局長講一下什麼時候可以做全面包委員有針對這次川普所造成的衝擊我們相關的參數已經有改變了那我們大概預計會在今年的七八月左右會出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4816.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4844.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
七八月全面的金融業的壓力測試可以出來銀行業銀行業銀行業其他的證券不要證券不需要了證券不需要證券本來不需要好來第三個問題因為我們時間有限第三個問題主委站在你是一個證券市場的一個主管單位最高主管你站不站成國安基金要擴大規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4847.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4863.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這個確實像文提到這不說主政不過我們當然是希望說因為國安基金的目的當時成立的市場的規模跟現在應該是有很大的差距所以如果說能夠加大這個市場穩定的機制其實我們看歷代歷次來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4868.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4883.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個argument這個基本上是 我不知道怎麼去形容它啦這是很獨特的或者奇怪的一個argument因為我們現在市值 從10年前2015年它的市值就是24兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4887.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4899.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
現在是70兆了 看起來跟我膨脹了這麼多所以這個國安基金擴大規模好像有必要聽起來都合理 相關的觀點也說對我 要我 要我可是我們仔細看喔 仔細看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4901.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4928.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
根據過去進場的八次互談國安基金都花很少錢啦國安基金一進去大家就安心啦所以國安基金是給大家安心的不是真正用那個錢啦最多起來那一次2000年的時候網路泡沫用了1227億你看在2020年的時候3月22日新冠肺炎只用了7億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4930.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4952.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
只用了7億啊2022年俄互戰爭只用了545億啊這個是不是會說話啊五千億綽綽有餘啊這個你要把它整個叫幾億這個問題就在於是心理作用只要說喔國安基金緊扭啊大家都問啊還有一個很重要的原因因為我們還有四大基金在旁邊護盤啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4954.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4961.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
四大基金在旁邊互攀 工股 行股在旁邊互攀錢有的是啊 政府一聲立下 啟動金幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4962.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4991.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我這樣講對吧這個很多不是我們金管會所能夠了解的內容啦我就給你提過數字啦 數字在這裡啦包括四大基金 公股 行庫都不是金管會對啦 所以我剛才就問你嘛就是你的態度要不要擴大這個國安基金所以我剛才跟委員報告過了我從我們資本市場安定的這個基礎角度來看規模已經長到這樣 我們是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4992.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5014.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
是支持的啦 但是就是從擴大的規模這麼大是支持可是從歷史事件來看 其實五千億是夠的啦因為他最多只用到一千兩百多億啊 政府一來啊 安啊 打個安而已啊這個賣是一個心理作戰 很多在講古斯福西是跟心理作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5015.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5041.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
是跟心理作戰有人去教這個啊心理投資學啊就是把規模擴大也是一種心理上面的層面很重要的影響可以說啦心理這個我也沒什麼太大意見要寒說擴大也可以擴大但是問題我就要讓大家知道其實國安基金的進來心理的護盤比實質的護盤更加重要因為代表國家重視這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5042.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5061.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
大家就安心了請問你平盤以下禁止放空還要持續多久我們現在政策不是沒有到平盤以下禁止放空我們只是對比率做一個限制我們剛剛委員也有隨詢過我說這個東西我們在對外都是隨時滾動調整我們觀看的這些比如說我們國際的情勢是不是已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5071.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5076.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
現在穩定了沒有比我們前一陣子現在穩定很多了你要講穩定投資的人也有信心市場終究要回到我們市場的機制去 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5086.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5086.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
現在數位存款僅有 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5108.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5126.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
兩千多戶 兩千五百多萬戶就差不多一個人一戶這裡面我們結果有委員就執行過了這個銀行暫停用自然冷憑證因為那個很容易被砸棄我談到砸棄這個你們怎麼管 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5127.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5155.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
其實我們也關注到我們從今年年初開始對各銀行的警示帳戶我們做了非常嚴格的加強管控那很明顯的數位帳戶的這個警示帳戶比率是偏高的這件事情也是成為我們很重要的管控的點我們會持續要求這些經營數位銀行的要做好KYC一定要讓他這個警示帳戶的會不會去加入什麼發折啊什麼之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5156.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5173.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
其實我們有我們現在就是透過雙指標的方式定期的去對他們加壓我想這部分這個警示帳戶特別在數位帳戶我們會來加強好時間到了最後一個小小的問題就是加密貨幣數位貨幣批賭批鄉民貸這個目前的管理態度是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5177.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5204.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
就是我們現在有關這個虛擬資產的部分我們暗部就班我們今年還是一樣我們現在的虛擬資產管理專法的草案我們已經公告就已經預告6月30號以前我們送進行政院審議那至於說P2P的部分我們4月20號他們終於他們的工會成立了我們開始進入到下一階段去我就是要問你P2P因為你們昨天剛宣布說要讓他們成立工會他們已經成立 對所以基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5211.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5221.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這個東西本來就是一個行程中的行業就像我們對融資公司的管理也是一樣必須真的很精準的去管理而不是只是為了納管的納管我想這還是一個比較負責任的態度謝謝謝謝賴昭偉接著請郭國文委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5237.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5240.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
主席有請彭主委好 請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5244.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5271.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
委員好主委好那個保單可否強制執行嚴格來說在法界原來有不同的一些聲音有的是否定說有的是肯定說至少在105年的時候高等法院的這個法律座談來自於各級的法院的代表討論的時候還是相對是否定的可是到了這一個大法庭會議的時候裁定的就變成是肯定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5272.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5297.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那主委,依照你是主委,你又是學者的一個角度來說的話你是比較贊同否定還是肯定?跟委員報告,假設我現在還是彭老師的話,我會持否定說你會支持否定對不對?對謝謝你,直接了當而說我個人老實講,我是否定派的啦我覺得基本上這個法官造法不是一件好事它自私一分而形成一種社會亂源 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5298.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5304.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
可是當你主委的時候你如果是否定的話你現在的修法態度你是採取一個順從的態度啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5306.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5329.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
不是 我現在的態度是需要因為畢竟是對一個主張你可以有自己一方之見但是我們現在是站在今晚會議的那裡我要解決這個問題對 你要解決問題你就是用順他的邏輯來想要解決這個問題嘛基本上也是順從他邏輯的方向在解決嘛難道沒有一個方式來推翻掉這一個大法官會議的這個裁定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5331.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5348.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
其實某種程度我們已經在修正這個內容就是我們已經在修正這個內容但就是說我剛才講說我現在是金管做我不是你是降低他把這個衝擊降低到最小你現在方式是修正的方式我們回到他的本質去就是說合以 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5349.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5366.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
對 你用本質意圖來做一些排除啦沒有錯 你要做一些排除我知道但是類似這種是對整個社會保險的一種衝擊欸制度的衝擊法官造法是對這個社會保險的衝擊做一個金管會的主委不是應該要捍衛這個保險制度才對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5367.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5396.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
他整個把他衝擊掉以後你在那邊修修補補他拿一個大卡車放在你的牆壯掉以後你在彩中重新砌牆不是嗎這個看法我跟委員有稍稍不同在學理上可以有非常明確的二分法否定說肯定說他的目的是要再把他對方的論述能夠講得更清楚一點但實際上你會發現說否定說他也不會去否定肯定說的一些主張肯定說也不會去否認否定說的一些主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5396.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5405.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
對啦 但是就比例上來說啦就否定說來說 還是相對比較合理性嘛我這裡頭有寫了 但是我們不是在爭論這個重點我們還是要爭論到回到現實的問題嘛在2023年的時候 總共高達123件那2024年的時候 每個月的事件多在成長2025年的部分呢 現在是5萬件在做成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5417.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5434.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那就這些來說的話大法庭會議裡頭雖然說要讓相關當事人有陳述的機會相關當事人分散在全國各地可是你所有的案件都集中在台北法院你覺得交通成本還有時間成本來說划得來嗎一來是這個徵徵會議陳情不多嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5438.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5443.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那第二來 你有沒有真正統計過整個呢 123萬件當中真正有執行的9.1萬件佔了不過是7.4%而已到底這個9.1萬件強制執行的結果的保單價格多少你們有沒有做過統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5454.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5477.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們有請工會去了解這個的比率啊詳細的金額必須要看他逐漸去看因為他已經進入到司法程序沒有我說9.1萬件已經執行完成嘛對你至少從這樣子往前推嘛也就是這個標的當中的執行講白一點就是法院在幫人家要債嘛要債的這個是否符合這個成本嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5478.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5502.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我覺得這個是很重要的 否則你做了一個裁決不符社會成本 動用那麼多人 你去看喔整個台北地院一個執行官 夯不啷噹手頭都有兩三千件根本負荷不了 其實你剛剛回答其他委員說你可能會減掉七成好了減到七成 剩下三成也很多耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5503.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5525.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
不是嗎 是即便你修法之後你減掉七成還是很多欸而且你修這個執法法院幫人要債好到誰好到這個銀行 金融機構 保險公司還有什麼最為社會詬病的三大融資公司啊九成都是法人欸10%才是自然人而已欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5527.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5547.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
這還什麼公平正義可言嗎 主委拿國家的機器在幫這些法人在社會上既得利益者來要債而且大部分都是你們當初在通過這些保險項目的這些被保險需要被保險他需要收益的時候他權益就被拿掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5548.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5561.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
幫到什麼程度 主委一般而言啦債權人還不能去這個公會上網查詢相關資料結果他可以申請 叫法院幫他申請資料法院服務做到這種程度 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5566.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5586.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我剛才說過這次的修法不是由金管會主動要來修法是因為我們被動因為這已經衍生了社會的問題所以我才想說我們也很希望趕快來解決這個問題而且是能夠從根本的本質上剛剛想說雖然說沒有錯大部分都是法人機構去執行但是剛剛也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5587.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5607.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
大概10%也是很有可能是一些對那他的架構是說可能長期在這個保單當中嘛所以我剛剛問你說到底他真的殘值有多少嘛這個才能建構起來他的正當性嘛跟他的利潤基礎嘛然後你現在呢弄一個版本說多久一張保單當中呢7萬多塊啦免強制執行的保單大概7萬多塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5611.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5631.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
大概約莫是台北市這個三個月的最多生活保障嘛對不對老實講我老實說我認為是偏低啦至少要變成是double變六個月啦我只是跟你交換心得啦那另外一個部分呢有關於這一個呢介乎於社會保險跟商業保險之間的這一種小額中老保險喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5633.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5650.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
這種社會保險性質算蠻高當初政府算是鼓勵的喔這中和保險的這個金額大概是10到90萬之間喔類似這種應該折衷不管幾張保單喔只要是50萬以下應該免執行啦包括這些都應該思考一下主委你認為是不是比較合理一些是 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5651.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5671.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
跟委員報告一下,就剛才委員提到的兩點第一個就是額度的部分,我剛才在一開始報告的時候已經講很明確這點的話我們是持開放態度社會有共識,我覺得委員有共識,我們都尊重再來剛才講,假設認為有其他的因為我們在修法,我們要以本於一個橫平的角度我們把它提出一般化的這個內容,比如說我們針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5672.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5691.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
一定金額以下的人壽保險跟年金保險不得做強制執行但是比如說還有其他社會的考慮我們也尊重只是說我們剛才對小額綜合保險不要用一個商品名稱來定義它因為這個不具有那個持續性我剛才講因為小額綜合保險不是一個我們保險法上面的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5694.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5714.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
週延的名詞它是一種商品的名稱它其實本質跟假設有人買了一個叫做終身壽險跟一個定期壽險其實本質上沒有太大的差別它就是一個終身壽險重點是本質啊對它就是一個終身壽險一個商業的終身壽險只是它的保費相對比較便宜核保比較寬鬆一點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5716.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5724.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
對 然後接下來主委這些反正我們後續還會再討論那最近金管會面臨一些棲產地的問題就是台資 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5726.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5756.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
他假冒外資來割韭菜他怎麼割呢就是呢他在海外有一些維京群島啦開曼群島啦等等啦來設定了不同的一個帳戶然後進行這一個進入台灣內部來進行炒股票跟洗錢的一個資金跟本土的券商跟外資的券商來做結合互相買賣拉抬甚至跟國內的一些不肖的頭顧分析勾結然後呢出貨然後來割韭菜那個主委你有沒有看到這個消息啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5758.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5781.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這個部分的話 我想因為我們可不可以調查局報告喔隔日當沖大戶來自海外喔有沒有去了解這個訊息有沒有去調查委員我可不可以請那個旗局局長來跟您說明一下來 旗局局長來 局長請張局長委員 這個目前來講我們等於當沖的交易是降低了現在只有32的百分比 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5785.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5813.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我們現在市場當中就要已經降了這樣我實在聽不太清楚口罩遮了很遠然後距離也很近沒有 主委我關心這件事情就是不要讓這種外資炒股的狀況來發生然後這種假外資資本屬性要去確認今天如果是台資假外資這是一種狀況今天港資是一種狀況今天中資又是另一種狀況不同的資本屬性所造成的資本市場的困擾有造成不一樣的後遺症 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5814.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5834.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以主委以前的外資很容易設定這些斷點那你要如何去突破不然的話遲早都會出現這些大問題這我們現在也關注到這個問題因為我們大概也會朝這個方向針對比如說未來他們申請的時候資訊的提供這些東西我們都要來強化還有就是說這些內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5835.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5857.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
剛剛講說因為我們會面臨到新的狀況我們就要有新的做法這我非常同意委員的這些建議這外面在查詢的過程當中我知道你過去其實也蠻困難的但蠻困難的情況底下還是有其他的可能性嘛去尋找一些合作對象簽訂MOU或什麼方式可能主委你在這個部分如果你後續還有一些餘力跟時間的話我覺得應該做這些鋪陳是 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5859.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5873.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
可以嗎可以我想這部分也是一個對那個最終受益人資本的管理我想這些都是對應該要啦這個雖然是中長期還是值得做啦否則的話衝擊太大啦謝謝主委謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝國文接著請李燕秀委員質詢謝謝教委我可以請主委請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5889.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5904.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
委員好謝謝主委因為上一次的公聽會您沒有來是副主委在現場我仍舊對於我們這一次金管會提出的修正廠案我要表達一個支持但是我有一個失望修法增訂介入權在123條之2當中我們很完整的我們讓符合一定條件的債務人的親屬在債務人清償債務之後可以承接原來有的保險契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5917.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5933.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們這樣的做法事實上也是兼顧了債務人跟債權人的權益就是他清償完之後他親屬是還可以承接原來有的保險契約但是對於豁免執行的規定我在上一次的公聽會表達說跟很多學者專家的主張是一樣的我認為我們的修法仍舊有許多違德不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5940.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5958.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
甚至在修法的過程當中因為我們現在也有強制執行法是不是有疊床架屋的狀況我覺得我上次已經表達過我覺得修法應該是我們越晚修法應該是思考得越純熟如果還有地方要再 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5959.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5980.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
沒有再把它補上去我會覺得非常的可惜畢竟一個法要完整的時候經過這麼多次的公聽會然後這麼多的討論你們才有辦法通過行政運營會才有辦法送進來所以我待會提到的我一個失望的部分我還是希望主委可以後續如果在法的部分我們可以加強我們再來去做後續的處理喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5980.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5997.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那我們回顧這次修法的背景在最高法院在111年12月做出裁定的時候允許保單可以抵債務之後這類強制執行造成法院很多書記官的負荷因為很多人保單非常非常的多他必須要一張一張去做確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5998.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6017.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
然後今晚會為了保障強制執行的債務人得以維持基本的保險的保障同時也期待提供法院第一線強制執行人可以有一個執法的標準才會提出這一次的修法那我就要請問主委你對於這一次的修法你覺得能夠達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6019.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6030.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
原來的預期的信心嗎就是說我們原來這一次修法的目標你覺得通過我們公聽會到目前你看到你的版本還有這麼多委員的建議你覺得有辦法達到您的目標嗎我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6033.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6050.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
這個修法如果能通過一定能夠產生非常顯著的效果但是是否能夠完全解決問題那當然不太可能那麼多的樣態但是我們可以看到如果真的比如說我們講最簡單先把健康傷害把它排除我想就大部分的 健康跟傷害險 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6052.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6066.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
把它排除再來就是我們訂了一個合理的門檻值維持了基本的保障以後又可以大量排除一些現在在進行中的這些的保單那我想再來因為有了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6067.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6093.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那個法案以後大家知道未來某些保險的話它很有可能會成為這個未來強制執行的時候呢它某程度也會減少未來的可能的程度我想這個都是我們修法積極但是修法確實是剛剛有委員說你是贊成反對其實應該講比較精準應該是有條件如果個人是有條件的否定說確實我們有些情況完全支持肯定跟否定也不夠實際 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6096.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6110.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
那我的意思是說 確實有些狀況 比如剛剛有提到有人主張 比如說中老百姓他有他的社會政策性有人又主張一些比較特殊的狀況 比如說弱勢的這些狀況這個都可以透過未來在我們在修法的調整過程當中尋求共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6112.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6139.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
主委這個就是我要強調未來在修法我們已經在修法我們為什麼不可以一次到位這是我談到就是說不符合豁免標準的其他各項保險契約的解約的債權現在強制執行法相關規定予以執行那我們修法的用意到底是什麼修法其實不能只是自掃門前雪我們希望把不好把強制執行法沒有考量到的或者是我們怎麼樣把這兩個法我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6142.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6155.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們思考的更完整或不足的地方我們兩邊把它彙整一次到位無論是保險法豁免的執行還有包括目前的強制執行規定其實有不同的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6159.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6177.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
還有一點沒有考量的就是說在強制執行法裡面其實有考量到共同的生活親屬譬如說撫養的親屬 父母還有未成年子女我們一併其實要放在豁免的對象裡面我們的保險草案裡面就沒有這件事情就沒有考量到 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6178.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6194.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這個是我在基層有時候沒有我知道就是說這個委員上次溝通的時候也有提到這個概念就是說其實我們現在是做一個特別的立法從保險的角度來看主委對不起你的聲音可不可以麥克風拉近一點對不起不好意思我把聲音開大一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6196.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6225.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我想說我剛才提過了就是說實際上有關這個需不要考量像比如強制執行考慮到共同生活的家屬這部分一開始的時候我們是有這樣想的不過我們剛才講過保單畢竟不是一個我們一般的財產而且隨著我們年紀變大其實我們應該買很多很多的保單再來就是說這個保單還要考慮到每一張的保單還要總和還要考慮到多少的這個親屬會增加非常高的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6226.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6247.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
可是主委強制執行法他們就有在做這件事情那個是他們在做的所以剛委員也提到說我們有沒有疊床架我們希望我們保險有些家庭他一輩子他可能就只有能力買一張這樣子的保單他只有能力買這樣你剛提到我們可能有很多的保單那或許是你所認識或您個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6249.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6267.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
有這麼多的保單但是很多人一家一家這一輩子他就只有買了一張這樣子的保單如果我們有考量得更完整的話那就可以馬上照顧他未成年的子女或他真的有什麼狀況他還可以就說我父母至少每個月還有一個我撫養的父母還有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6267.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6289.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
最基本的生活依賴對 像比如說我們這次的修法我們也仔細思考過這個問題我們也打破了過去說總和的概念我知道這個是我覺得我支持的地方對 我們就各保單再來就是說如果每一個都要考量你這個共同生活其實這樣這又是一種判準的社會成本所以我們把那個額度呢用這個方式來解決這個問題其實這樣我覺得這是我們從保險的特別的考量我們也沒有跟隨我們強制執行的概念在進行主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6295.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6317.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
主委我還是要強調就是說我覺得我支持的是額度的豁免的計算我覺得這是一個進步的修法但我仍舊有一個失望因為我聽到的就是在豁免對象的部分你只有債務本人沒有考量他需要父母的上上下下 這可以在額度上面做一些調整會更容易達到這個效果而且可以更簡正便民 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6319.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6339.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這個未來看看你們後面再怎麼去做後續的處理我覺得這一點沒有做到我覺得是可惜就是我認為為德不足的地方所以我覺得在這一塊當中如果我們修法我們沒有辦法去紓解執行法院的壓力也不能照顧到弱勢的債務人家庭那我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6340.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6359.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這個修法我覺得就不夠完整我會覺得非常的可惜因為我時間剩下不多我要問另外一個TISA的部分個人儲蓄帳戶的部分也是一直一路以來我非常關心的個人儲蓄帳戶的部分有租稅的優惠上次我跟您提過您提到說會在今年上路什麼時候要上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6360.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6379.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
有關那個我們分兩階段第一階段就是說我們請吉保還有各個這個我們的經過讓利的部分我們已經規劃完畢六月會六月要上路那您覺得上路之後有沒有足夠的誘因讓所有還沒加入的民眾有足夠的誘因可以加入當然誘因每個人的看法不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6380.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6400.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
因為我目前看到的誘因你在第二階段只有要在第二階段才會爭取財政部的租稅優惠從目前我聽到或從媒體上看到你們就是把目前有的優惠就是加在一起這是第一階段第一階段嘛那如果第一階段你預估第一階段應該目前應該可以達到什麼樣的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6401.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6423.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
你每一個政策出來我們就要有一個評估值你會達到什麼樣的成效如果家人不夠多或規模不夠大那我覺得這個TISA就沒有達到你預期的政策的效果嘛所以我才會提的我一直問你說誘因在哪裡你沒有足夠的誘因你第一階段達不到我們就根本不用去討論到第二階段啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6425.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6441.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這個跟委員報告就是第一階段是我們能做的我們就已經趕快盡快來做第二階段我想這個難度我想這個委員也非常清楚我想就是主要租稅的優惠要有社會共識所以這部分我們在持續努力中 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6442.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6465.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
社會共識本來就是公部門要持續去溝通 要有足夠的誘因那這可能不是你一個單位 不是金管會可以包括財政部來配合財政部也非常非常密切的溝通你跟他溝通 那他有答應你說要後面的租稅優惠要達到這個是賴政府 卓院長的重要目標 在財務會重要的目標政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6466.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6483.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
租稅的專業在他們但是我們政策的部分呢我們還在真的要在比這做周詳的溝通那我想說一有結果我們會兩方會跟大家做報告主委那我還是要問就是說你的你未來第一階段用戶數跟資金規模的指標你的最低你會不會設最低門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6485.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6513.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那你預估6月份要上線那你有沒有思考到多少人或多少金額你要達到預期目標是什麼對你的同仁應該有一個要求吧這我們最近因為我們制度剛建制完畢還有就等於說它裡面的一些的內容物還要請我們再跟業者來協商這協商完畢我們就會訂出這樣的一個預期目標這樣子 主委我支持TESA我覺得這個是對國家來說是很重要對一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6514.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6542.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
打拼了一輩子然後有一個長期穩定的儲蓄章很重要所以我一直在提誘因我希望你這個政策可以成功它是要怕部會的結合所以我認真認為我希望看到一個完整的報告你第一階段應該有多少資金規模你預估有多少人我後面才能再追說人不夠是因為你誘因不足那你財政部就要多支持租稅優惠我就幫你要求財政部支持所以我希望看到一個完整的報告好不好可以可以謝謝沒問題謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6544.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6565.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
好 謝謝委員 謝謝主委接下來請賴委員會議員質詢謝謝主席謝謝主席 有請金管會主委還有銀行局 佟局長還有我們司法院那個毛法官好 請彭主委 佟局長還有毛法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6568.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6591.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我首先先請教我們的銀行局局長最近就是說在這個以你的工作經驗裡頭自然人的憑證最直接最方便的一個方式你自己親身感受到了是什麼是一個自然人憑證是最好用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6591.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6607.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
是跟委員報告在數位存款方面它有分三類的存款那自然人憑證它是第一類存款理論上它的安全性是最高的它安全性是最高的好局長你把它用你自己本身使用過自然人憑證嗎你有沒有自然人憑證 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6608.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6632.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
有那你最常用在哪裡報稅報稅是最好用的好現在你們把就是我們的八大公股行庫把這個治安人憑證就是陸續我們把它暫停了因為為什麼你們認為治安人憑證他可能成為詐騙集團的一個工具他會成為一個警示的一個賬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6633.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6654.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那如果我們用這樣治標不治本的方式這樣去圍堵這個把它暫停自然人憑證的話這個方式好嗎我請那個主委來回答這個問題到底我們金管會對於自然人憑證把它暫停了這一個測試到底是好還是不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6655.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6679.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
當然就是因為這是遇到問題解決問題的一種方法但是就是說我們現階段先尊重各個金融機構他們對風險的判斷但是比如說我們常講說我們在金融監理上我們常鼓勵我們金融機構不可以做完全去風險化的業務這會影響到很多的正常的營運活動比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6680.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6694.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我不讓高速公路車子上去自然不會有車禍但是它也喪失了運輸的功能反而你要好好去想一件事情就是說自然平正在執行的過程當中有什麼東西我沒辦法管控的這些人我才把它做一個阻擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6695.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6722.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
那當然現在他們可能還沒有找到原因我想這部分確實也看到一些問題但是我們會針對這個問題請他們好好去思考一下怎麼樣能夠橫平有沒有有一個就是說你看你五月份你陸續你還有八大公股行庫還要再加進來了要把它停止了好這個要停止多久那你們就是有設定一個期限如果就是說在這個半年的期限還是三個月的期限裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6723.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6738.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
其實它已經是就是這一個警示的帳號它這個狀況變少了我們要把它恢復了有沒有這樣子的一個就是準備跟情況是 那個同局長有一個他的實務的作法跟我們報告是 跟我們報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6738.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6761.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那這個部分剛才如同我跟委員報告第一類的帳戶用自然人憑證這個是最安全的那銀行現在遇到的情境是詐團騙民眾把自然人憑證交付給他那現在的一個問題點是在於說我們在進行第一類帳戶的時候並沒有採視訊所以現在八大行戶我們大概初步跟他溝通未來可以補強比方說透過視訊的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6763.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6766.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
增強他們的風險控管能力之後呢事實上這個陸陸續續就會解開來補上視訊的一個查證 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6771.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6790.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
因為過去那個自然憑證在使用上他的安全性理論上適同本人那因為現在等於是詐團把這個自然憑證都騙到手了那現在未來可能就是導向就是說如果是不是才開用這個自然憑證再加上視訊確認是本人的這種方式你用視訊來查證的時候這個多久來執行呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6794.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6807.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這個部分因為會涉及到銀行系統整合的問題所以我們會再跟相關的銀行來討論總是有一個議題的時間 盡快的時間大概多久因為這個已經造成大家很多的一個不方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6809.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6829.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
大概應該有個期限 半年啊 半年有沒有機會好 我們往這個目標來走 那也跟委員報告 因為第三類障礙事件那個主委 我想就是說在上個月那個行政院已經通過了那個金管會的這個保險法的一個修正草案那在我也那個召開了那個公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6830.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6849.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那相信應該是會經過了社會大眾普遍的一個討論那也達成一個初步的共識那今天保險法這個草案的一個審查其實詳細的來看的話我想今晚會已經做了很多那個周全的一個這個準備了 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6851.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6867.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這個優關人民的權利的保險法的一個修正其實我們都知道就是說對社會大眾影響局劇非常的大那陳如賴司保委員剛才特別的就是說針對的就是說這一個現有的現有的超過這個100萬件的這個案件在這個現階段裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6873.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6899.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我剛才司法委員一直在追問你說到底有多久的時間多久的時間可以來完成就是處理全部的這個案件那你一直在講的就是說你這個半年修法通過了沒有問題可是後面是司法司法的一個那個就是這個程序的一個問題那好那我請教一下那個司法院那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6901.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6917.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
馬法官那如果我們修法通過了以後你們這邊有多久可以來解決這些剩下來的一個案件如果修法通過了你剩下來的案件就不多啦他可能剩下兩三成那這兩三成你需要多久的時間啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6920.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6937.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
委員長 主席早這邊想要向委員報告的是說我們這次的修法雖然有排除掉部分的這個保險金額及種類但是在這個執行端他收到案件的時候他是還是會收到案件在強生執行時務的時候案件是 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6938.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6941.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
你這個行政程序都跑了一輪了以後你覺得你需要多久的時間可以把後續的這些案子處理掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6959.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6974.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
因為在查詢之後我們才有辦法知道說有些案件有些保險類型是沒有辦法執行的也就是說我們可能要實際上在修法後來觀察說在保險執行的速度上所以你們大概有一個預計的時間嘛因為你們會抓一個模擬的一個流程嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6974.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7002.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
就是新的案子再進來然後再經過你們的審查那這樣子大概需要多少的時間因為你知道這一次的修法其實我們就是要解決很多的一個社會問題因為這個存了一百多萬件的這個案子在這個地方如果我們今天修法沒有辦法給社會大眾一個比較明確的一個交代的話那這個好像是所有我們的努力就缺了那麼一腳了 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7003.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7030.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
是這邊向委員報告在這次保險法修法之後我們預估案件的處理流程速度會變快但是因為實際上到底有多少的這個可以被免除執行的案件的這個比例所以有沒有辦法半年內就是說就是回到那個司法的這個那個體系裡頭我們有在大概可以就是掌握一個六個月八個月把你們後續的這些行政程序就是把它處理完是 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7030.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7036.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們這方面我們可能還要再回去做評估那你之前都沒有評估 沒有評估還來 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7039.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7063.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我們有評估我們的人力那你都知道我們在修法修法大家下了那麼多的一個努力了好 謝謝馬法官把這個問題帶回去這個真的快速的來評估那好 主委還是要跟你再探討就是說我們從保化中心的一個統計就是國人在人壽保險跟年金保險裡頭通常我們大概都是每一個人身上都會有2.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7066.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7091.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
2.63張的一個人壽險那這次修正有關強制執行的部分其實還是要回來跟那個主委做一個探討就是說那我們還是覺得就是這個投保利如果就是到這個人壽險的投保利在這張圖裡頭他有特別那個就是跟大家做一個那個介紹那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7092.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7113.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那個強制保單的一個額度那跟最低生活的一個限度其實就是要跟主委探討的就是說還是很多委員跟你探討就是說如果用每一個地區每一個人最低的一個生活會的1.2倍來計算這個三個月的金額那這個對其他除了台北市以外的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7115.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7142.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
保險人是那個不公平的就顯然他有很明顯的一個城鄉的一個差距不知道主委怎麼看這個議題呢是 這個也是我在接觸這個修法的時候才知道我們現在強制執行就是按照這個標準來做所以當時我們只是在直接嫁接這個強制執行的概念當我們經過這一輪的公聽以後還有各個委員的指證以後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7143.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7168.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
就剛剛委員也提到公聽會後我們回去也做很多的檢討很多的這些討論比如說針對這個額度我們基於簡正辨明剛剛也提到剛剛委員也有講到就是說我們怎麼樣能夠簡化這個認定的標準上次也有人提說是不是就以台北市或是最高的作為一個標準我想這個可以來做一個解決大家各個委員提案的一些的問題我想這是一個可以思考的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7169.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7187.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那你想想看嘛 這個城鄉的差距就在這個地方如果我以這一張圖來看的話 我們台南才55.854那台北市竟然是73,365那這個台南人一定是不服氣啦因為保單 這個保惠都是一樣的啊 怎麼會是 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7188.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7202.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我想那個當時強制執行法應該也是有他自己的考量才訂出這個啦齁那只是說我們保險法現在單獨立法齁我們也不希望說這樣增加整個很高的社會成本所以我覺得這部分我們剛才提到說我們對這個也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7204.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7230.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
開放我們也尊重我們的審查的程度但是所以我請教你去年的這個草案的一個草案的一個豁免額度是多少為什麼跟這一次我因為你又做了修正嘛去年去年是做了十萬塊的那個是不是十萬塊這個數據去年預告的時候呢他是用各種不同的標準去列示他用列舉的比如說有些用嫌種別是有些用幾戶別那有些用比如說他的年金的幾戶的樣態還用 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7233.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7253.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
比如說財產保險把它排除這個就等於說在實務執行上未來可能會更為複雜因為我們現在實務上的商品不是用我們法律名詞在做歸類比如就像各位常常會看到你很多的商品叫年年如意什麼終身受險或是什麼保險它很難去歸類在我們的法律條文上所以認定上就會產生很大的困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7254.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7265.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以我們才會把它重新把它整理用一個最基本的概念來做所以剛才我們標準的部分大家集中在標準我覺得標準可以大家來尋求個共識啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7266.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7293.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
好我想這個主委政策是不換管而換不均所以就是說我們都會聽到了很多很多的一個聲音那在最後又請金管會讓民眾去了解就是說這個解約金額度這個很明確是就是一個很明確的一個額度那讓金管會就是堅持這個對台南人不利的這一個豁免標準可以把它就是取消掉拉平謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7294.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7304.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這個最後我絕對沒有針對國人任何地區有什麼不公平對待的想法我們希望解決問題 謝謝謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝賴昭偉 謝謝彭主委接著請鍾嘉斌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7331.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7346.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
主席 在場的委員 先進列協政務機關司長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們彭主委還有司法院的馬法官和法務部的謝副司長好 請彭主委還有那個司法院馬法官還有法務部的謝副司長好 法務部那個謝副司長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7359.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7376.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
主委好 法官好 副市長好來 我的標題單一標準免足案判斷省案量回歸屬性而非保單名稱來認定好 先就交到主委來 主委那個昨天在院會的時候我跟你請教就是說未來啊我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7377.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7392.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
因為在談虛幣在交易所的時候我們談到詐欺有提到境內跟境外境外實名制的部分我有跟你提到說如果能夠及時發出扣押的裁定那麼跟你請教說有沒有境外的虛幣家有願意配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7392.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7409.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那您說只要有助於打詐的您都支持都會去爭取但是現在的問題昨天也跟你問過也請兩位這個法務部跟司法院代表說但是司法機關能夠及時開出扣押的裁定嗎那請兩位法官跟副長您聽好下一頁就過去我們的實務上當我們阻斷詐騙是以 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7413.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7442.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
再圖的金流來追錢為優先法官跟副長了解今天一個犯罪一個實體犯罪偷竊搶奪基本上我們一定有個犯罪有個罪犯有個被害人被害人他因為有財產損失是因為這個犯罪行為我們抓到這個犯人之後把他身上的錢拿出來看看是不是他的犯罪所得然後再發一個財定扣押是不是這樣子法官是不是這樣毛法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7443.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7447.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
不好意思 因為我是民視廳的副市長好 那個副市長 法治司副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7450.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7475.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
報告委員 就是在各式各樣的財產犯罪 或者是非財產犯罪我們大概就是會查出金流之後向法院申請扣押裁定除非是屬於無令狀可以扣押的狀況好 那現在有個問題啦就是說我們現在如果有人宣稱被詐欺那確定他被詐欺了 但是呢還沒有找到犯罪人對不對 但是我們可以找到他被詐欺的錢在哪裡譬如他可能虛幣 這時候你們會讓法院會裁定扣押嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7478.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7502.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
會主張就是沒有就算還沒找到被害人只要能證明他疑似是犯罪所的事實上是可以申請扣押的所以說我們司法機關未來追遣為優先確認詐款的路徑之後就可以向境外願意合作的實名制虛幣交易所來核發這樣的一個扣押裁定是不是這樣報告委員這個可能涉及裁定如何執行的問題是的 那主委請 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7504.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7528.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
所以今天因為我們不是一個本題所以今天法務部跟司法院來的不是這個本題的一個對象所以我昨天在請教說是不是我們儘管會為了虛弊交易所未來可能會成為一個詐欺者常用的一個途徑那這樣的一個阻斷金流的過程需要司法院介入是不是可以協調我們法務部跟司法院來完成這樣的一個樣態能夠執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7529.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7538.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這當然在我們的打炸團隊裡面這個大家都一起的啦如果未來有這個需要我們會透過那個平台提出要求不過剛剛委員提到這個可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7539.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7559.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
有幾個點可能我們回去也在思考過第一個我們在虛擬幣的世界裡面其實國界沒那麼明確就是在網路世界裡面但是他假設有一個比如說這個具體的法人是受我們的管轄或願意合作的那當然就變成具體了 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7560.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7575.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
還要裁定要扣押啊對 所以說就是一定要我們配合假如這還跨境的法人的部分那就真的要透過國際的合作啦是但是我們本國的司法體系要能夠及時的發出這個扣押裁定嘛這個就是要看我們司法司法部跟法務部跟司法院對 就是我們對於剛才 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7576.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7591.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
就跟昨天那個答覆委員就說凡是有助於主詐的措施我們都要來想辦法來我第一是說請金管會行政院法務部司法院要共同來努力不能只有靠我們行政機關謝謝好我們回到本題 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7592.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7612.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那麼這個是來自於2022年因為最高法院的108的897號的民事裁定大法庭必要時終止呢債務人為藥保人的人壽保險契約是這樣的意思來我們看看辛苦的過程首先呢是在去年4月的時候那時候我來台政委員會的質詢就提出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7612.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7624.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
然後呢我們在4月29號聯合財委會的跨黨派委員就提出了一個記者會很快的本席就在5月10號提出了保險法的修法草案然後呢我們司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7625.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7646.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我當時在市委會當召委我也排了一個專題報告也在6月17號安排去台北地院考察而且呢在6月28號呢其實司法院的記者會就宣布了一個新的指引到後來到去年的10月15號在屏東開地方說明會到了今年的3月13號很快的行政院就有一個院版送來要審議而我們的召委也趕快排了一個公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7648.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7670.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
主委謝謝我們這一次的動作很快一年的時間我們已經進入到修法了首先給您一個肯定再往下看那麼可是原因回過當初啦當初最大的一個爆發出來的冰山這一角是來自什麼來自全國各地的民事執行處受理債權人申請執行標的涉及到債務人對第三人質保險契約的金錢債權很長有多少件 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7674.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7698.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
總件數是七十七萬多件其中四分之三是法人只有四分之一是治安人的金錢債權而這四分之三的法人當中呢銀行占一半三分之二三分之一是資產管理公司就是俗稱的什麼討債公司結果在那個時候法院就什麼淪為了討債公司幫忙去催債這當中合法的換價命令約四萬多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7699.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7727.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這就是法院的負擔我們往下看接下來我們的副司長跟法官就看到了在我們過去一年每個法官所做出的平均的裁定公佈呢二一年是六十件二二年是一百一十件最高峰就是在前年就是大法庭的裁定出來的時候一百三十四件現在慢慢下降如果單以二零二四年比較集中在台北地院是不是這樣子我們從民事庭的法官毛法官是不是這樣子這是你們的痛嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7729.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7732.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
對 沒錯 目前台北地院仍然是執行狀況最嚴重的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7733.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7761.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
這就是我去年6月17號的時候呢我們司法法治委員會去考察台北地院的情況連同仁們都貼海報抗議啊是的他們受不了嘛 是不是是的好 那請問這個情況紓解了沒有是報告委員感謝委員在這個去年6月的時候前往台北地院去了解實際上的狀況那在這個去年6月之後那司法院這邊就這個台北地院的這個狀況以及應該說全國法院也都有類似的狀況好 那有一個方法嘛就是這一頁嘛對 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7762.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7789.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
本來我們強制執行的根據應由債務人之居住所的地方法院為之那我們就可以把這個案件分給債務人所在而不是以保險公司的台北地院跟士林地院嘛是不是這樣對沒錯我們透過這個去年6月17號發布的這個執行原則然後來擴大解釋這個應由這個謝謝來我們請彭主委所以呢我們怎麼樣去減量是我們保險法修法當中考慮一個程序的一個程序經濟啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7789.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7808.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那我們來看到現在的認定其實幾位前面的委員都說到了最低生活費的標準要以哪一個有人主張我也是支持以全國最高的那一個為主為什麼這樣子才不會讓債權人跟債務人為了尋求自己的最佳利益而去主張說要再依哪一個當地法院是不是這樣所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7809.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7836.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
主委是不是你也接受我們統一標準就能減省我們法院的認定程序我剛剛也要答覆委員我們是尊重我們也是開放態度我覺得這是一個蠻好的解決方法好謝謝你認為蠻好的我們往這方面努力往下看所以呢其實呢保單解約金有類似的情況我們發現呢我們在修法過程當中呢院版的部分是傾向說以分別計算單筆解約金而不是以合併所有的解約金來加總請問一下我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7838.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7865.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
副市長跟毛法官 毛法官您認為這樣有沒有足以我們法院在認定上的裁定對於這個行政院版的這個分別計算個別解約金有助於這個執行的便利性這樣子好 謝謝 來我們彭主委所以說今天我們要說的修法的時候不是要考量到法的原理屬性要考量到未來執行上的程序經濟是的好 我們來往下看其實呢最大的問題我們過去感受到民眾的痛是什麼就是殺雞取卵 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7866.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7879.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我債務人欠的錢跟我相對的保單損失利益是不成比例所以我們才主張什麼 往下看還有什麼原因主張介入權嘛 我要講的就是另外呢 我們的狀況是什麼很多的債務人員高齡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7881.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7902.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
早年時的投保的保單如果一旦解約他失去了保障他沒有辦法再拿回來另外一個情況是這就是傷害險跟健康險另外一個就是說他早年幫他的子女藥保人幫他子女受益人請求的保險權益怎麼樣能夠讓受益人可以繼續強弱保障這是我們的目的所以我們這時候怎麼去進行設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7904.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7918.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
所以說當時我們其實當時引入介入權的概念就是其實我們保險法裡面當時就有一個條文就是利害關稅人得代繳保費的精神很類似他的意思是說如果說這個利害關稅人主張契約應該繼續的話你可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7921.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7950.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
執行一些動作讓這個契約進行包括這個像介入權那假設我是受益人我覺得這張保安都有重大利益我當然可以代償這以後呢我取代他成為我的遙保人終止他的債權債務關係不會再被那個債務人所追償被那個債權人所追償是的那我們來看一下保險法你說第12條是這樣子那為什麼現在院門的第1、2、3條之二主張的比保險法的還要再多一些些就是依此而推演的介入權人多了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7951.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7975.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
多了兄弟姐妹是這樣嗎多了我們保險法第16條以外家屬以外的親屬家屬以外的親屬因為我們保險法對於有保險利益是以家屬為基礎不以親屬所以也就是說家屬是情共同生活同居同寸多了不是家屬的親屬是多了兄弟姐妹不以共同居住為限那思考是什麼 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7976.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8003.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
但是因為這個能夠擴大能夠來終止債權債務關係幫他清償維繫保險價值的範圍跟他加大當然有人擔心道德風險的問題就是我們前面又加了一個要經過腰背保險人的同意尊重道保險法我想這就可以解決這個問題擴大範圍後續有一個程序上的問題請你們修法後續思考一下不只一個人要行使的時候誰先協和 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8005.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8026.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
就是介入選的時候這個目前法條上我們沒有辦法去定義後續在我們的實務上的時候後續的配套所以這個配套呢要跟著我們保險法修訂一起加進來好不好所以我們在實務作業上的時候我們會請我們保險局在這邊會訂定一些規範來做好那最後一題呢就是大家問到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8027.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8053.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
就是有些委員會版本有寫的小額中老保險因為我的標題是說什麼希望回歸保險的屬性而不是保險商品的名稱那麼請問一下目前小額中老保險它包含了哪些不同性質的保險屬性它其實小額中老保險就是一個限定額度的終身受險限定額度的終身受險它是生存險還是死亡險它是以死亡險為主可是有的有住獸金 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8056.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8074.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
應該小兒中老保險應該是沒有他是一個純粹的終身險他有完全失能幾戶就等同經濟死亡的部分那到底小兒中老保險適不適合在我們依照我們保險法的精神中排除作為我們健全債務的強制執行的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8075.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8097.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這個我們也是在剛剛的報告我們經過公聽會以後呢我們覺得說假設大家社會有共識認為這是一個需要被排除的我們也尊重不過我們建議不要用商品的名稱做排除是的所以我希望未來啊在你們的持續我們的修法過程當中不是以商品名稱來定義而是以保險的本質屬性來判斷是的這樣才有那個超過性 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8097.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8115.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我希望說主委多多強調你的生存險死亡險到底是屬於殘險性質的損害填補還是屬於具有財富移轉的儲蓄投資效果這個部分清楚的將保單的本質做判斷因為要法庭來做這樣判斷超過不是他們的專業上所應為所以未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8117.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8128.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我們這個金管會對於哪些保單可以免除強制執行的對象這個部分的說明是不是在我們的立法說明當中有更詳細明確的補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8129.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8154.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
對 這個沒問題 其實後來未來執行的時候各位可以看到 其實我們很重要的環節是授權工會授權工會這邊做一個認定 其實我們在那邊可以做很清楚的認定那因為法院來查詢的時候 會透過他們好 所以 麻煩知道了未來你們在判斷的時候 你們不用自己判斷你們只要函詢授權工會 或者我們金管或保險局就可以得到認定了那麼大家也不用想辦法去什麼因為我很擔心什麼我們本來是要保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8156.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8182.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
要保人的債務人但是怕的是一些想要避債的存心有這樣的前置動機的人去買什麼買保險公司的逃債商品現在很多保險公司都要去設出這個保單以後就不會被列入強制執行不可以這樣子我們希望今晚會趕快公佈也嚴格審查不得讓我們保險公司以可以避債保單的方式來做設計跟宣傳可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8182.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8208.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這我們在內控內基制度上面我們會來做一個涉控好 謝謝主委 謝謝副市長 謝謝毛法官好 謝謝接著請顏寬恒委員質詢顏委員質詢結束以後我們休息十分鐘好主席各位立席官員大家早主席有請金管會彭主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8213.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8234.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
委員好主委早請教主委有關於這個保單結約金的強制執行門檻規定單一授權保單結約金未超過債務人所在地區每月最低生活費1.2倍乘以3個月的標準時該保單才不得被扣押或強制執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8235.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8263.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那以台中市為例最低生活費乘以1.2倍乘以3個月的金額大概是57877元那最高的台北市大概是73364元那其實這引發很多問題啦因為全國標準不一那這個受險或者是年金險的這個保費費率不會因為地區不同而有所差異那付的是一樣的錢那住在農村的人跟住在台北市 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8265.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8282.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
購買同一個同一張保單付的這個保費費率都一樣那為什麼住在鄉下非六都的人保單反而容易觸碰到被扣押的紅線容易被解約那這個不合理這就不合理了那保單 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8283.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8303.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
住偏鄉的人他收入可能會比較低可能會比較低那如今又要被用相同相對嚴格的標準來對待那不就等於說被扒了兩次皮所以我認為說如果要做盡可能的做到一致性 全國一致那這樣才能夠避免不同縣市的民眾面對不公平的一個處境 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8304.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8325.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那主委有沒有考慮再做修正例如說有其他委員的版本所提到的最低工資或者是直接以台北市作為這個標準以台北市的標準作為門檻做到全國統一是 謝謝委員的關心我想這個議題委員講的這個很多人都關心這個議題那我們在公聽的時候我們也注意到其實我們當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8326.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8344.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
訂立這個本意我再一次強調我們並沒有要針對不同地區的國人有不一樣待遇的這樣的一個想法我們只是當時原來尊重強制執行法上面本來就採用這樣的標準但是我們既然單獨立法剛剛也提到了委員剛剛提到也有人提出兩個非常好的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8344.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8359.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
一個就是我們能不能就以這個相同的標準就以台北市或是最高的那個作為一個統一的標準這樣就不會有剛才委員所顧慮的點了這一點我們是剛才有幾位委員要表達說我們覺得這個也是個好的方法我們可以來思考這個回去跟委員跟鄉親解釋其實沒有這個意思謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8366.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8390.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那以債務人所在地區這樣1.2倍乘以3個月的標準確實是太低啦那尤其是高齡債務人這次修法當中被關注的一個弱勢這個群體那他們的經濟來源都是依賴退休金社會保障或保險金等所以被強制扣押就會使得他們在生活面會面臨到很大的壓力尤其是高齡者 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8391.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8411.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那他們的身體無法像年輕人一樣積極的參與工作所以保險金就是成為他們維持基本生活的主要依賴那如果強制執行門檻過低沒有做一致性的我們剛剛提到的說如果以台北市為最高標準的這個部分來做一個思考那這樣子的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8413.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8432.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這些高齡債務人可能就無法滿足他們日常生活所需那如果修法後這個保單解約金的強制提醒門檻還是那麼低他要面對的雙重壓力除了說一方面要面對償還債務的壓力困境另外一方面又要又失去了生活的保障所以對於年紀 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8433.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8460.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
大或者健康不佳的人來說這相對是非常危險的情況所以我們在立法的同時也要考量到弱勢群體他們的處境所以有關於標準的部分再請主委就我們剛剛您也提到了說以單一縣市台北市為例來做一個這樣子的一個一個更具體的一個思考來做這樣的決定那我們也在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8461.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8476.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
司法院的報告書裡面也有看到他們也有指出說倘若執行之解約金債權金額僅為每人每月最低生活費1.2倍計算乘以三個月恐難以充分保障受益人之基本生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8477.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8493.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
所以他們也建請說就豁免執行門檻之計算月數再行斟酌提高所以我們用各個這些相關大家提出來這些意見來做一個對於人民弱勢群體更具保障的這樣的一個立法的一個目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8494.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8508.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那我想金管會在這邊既然有願意來做調整那我們也很期待那要兼顧到所有群體的需求尤其是高齡者低收入還有這個長期病患這些弱勢的群體因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8510.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8531.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
他們在生活當中本來就是處於困境之中如果面對保單強制執行的問題造成生活品質的下降這些部分會更讓他們感到困難也許會產生其他的危險性那我再請教一下就是我們小兒中老這個部分剛剛我提到其他委員都有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8532.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8556.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那小兒中老部分能不能強制執行的問題這好像金管會跟司法院還有法務部這邊都有不同的看法那去年金管會保險局已經建議司法院的執行原則法務部在去年都已經發給各分署執行裡面規定說小兒中老保險豁免強制執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8559.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8579.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
但是今天我們的這個保險法修正草案卻允許小兒中老可以被強制執行所以其實你們自己建議法務部要豁免但是結果這個保險法的修法沒有納入豁免這個讓大家有看沒有懂所以說去年你們是建議要這樣子那今年你們又沒有把它納入豁免所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8580.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8599.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我是建議主委啦這樣子政策不同調會讓民眾搞不清楚除了看不懂之外會覺得政府又在亂搞所以我想說在這邊要請主委說是不是再一次的跟司法院跟法務部討論小中老保險強制執行要不要豁免這個部分可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8601.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8617.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
根文報告其實沒有說我們的政策不一的問題因為主要是我們去年訂那個指引就是我們在預告的時候有很多人提出非常多的質疑因為我們整個立法過程當中我們要查納雅言就是說他認為說這樣的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8619.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8635.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
不夠這個周延而且很多的定義不清楚所以我們才提了這個版本這是一個法制的程序我們也會來加強說明剛剛委員提到我非常的贊成就是說實際上我在前面幾個委員質詢有兩點跟委員報告第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8637.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8663.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
額度的部分我覺得我們尊重我們整個我們大院審查的結果這我們剛提過大家有不同的考量在對小中老保險的部分我們剛行政版本是個原則性的排除如果針對特別的部分的話我們也是尊重只是說不要用商品名稱因為小中老保險不是一個法律週延的名詞是個商品的名稱用這個方式剛剛前面委員有提 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8664.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8677.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
提出過我想這邊都可以在未來在條文討論的時候呢我們都持開放的態度金管會強調的是維護債權人的權益沒有是平衡要橫平那司法院他關注的是弱勢這個群體的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8682.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8699.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
司法院他規定說小兒中老保險豁免這個強制執行是因為小兒中老保險是因為我們我國人口我國人口這個高齡化的趨勢那普及高齡者基本保險保障而推動的這個保險商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8700.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8726.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那所以因此明定小額中的保險商品不得強制執行那你剛剛提到當然你就說你要平衡你要保障這些東西所以我希望就是說你們要好好討論溝通不要這樣子不同調不要讓民眾看不懂你們到底要做什麼去年建議豁免那今年又把又把它剔除在豁免的這個範圍之內所以我想希望你們這邊能夠跟司法院法務部充分溝通達成共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8726.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8733.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這沒問題我們已經有在溝通這個問題我想說這個各方有各方的不同意見我們都來尊重大家來考慮謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝那我們現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8773.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8774.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
謝謝收看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8783.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8787.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這是人肉聯繫的對,對,對以後再看什麼聯繫他不會出現什麼聯繫他不會出現什麼聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8831.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8835.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
謝謝收看,下次見! |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8857.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8858.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這裏是大廈的大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8899.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8899.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8926.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8928.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
還有搞不好的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8961.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8963.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
謝謝收看,下次見! |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8996.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9012.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的食物 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9023.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9027.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
這裏面是一間餐廳餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9053.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9054.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9082.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9082.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
哎呀 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9111.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9112.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
好,可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9122.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9122.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這裏有個大廈,有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9159.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9189.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
鞍馬 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9194.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9195.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9222.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9222.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這裏有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9254.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9254.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
這裏有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9294.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9320.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
這裏的店是在澳門城市的那裏那裏的店是在澳門城市的那裏 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9325.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9353.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這裏有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9397.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9397.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
謝謝觀看 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9450.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9468.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
謝謝收看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9486.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9486.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
韓國瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9519.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9545.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
來來來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9560.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9560.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
香蕉 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9627.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9634.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9662.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9663.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
鸡蛋 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9697.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9702.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
蜂蜜蜜 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9782.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9782.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9831.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9831.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這裏有個大廈,有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9835.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9838.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
小蝶 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9855.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9871.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
沙漠中央市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9883.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9884.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
這裏有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9923.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9942.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
好謝謝那接著請羅明財委員發言主席各位出列席官員大家好主席可不可以請彭主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9946.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9967.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
你想想所有的銀行、證券、保險事實上最重要的是安定要穩定那自從美國川普上任100天以來可以說是世界上史料上從來未見的上沖下洗 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9968.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9990.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那對於未來目前大概他是講說未來的90天的關稅的問題不曉得主委面對台灣整個股市最近的發展有沒有信心那兩萬點到底站得住站不住因為大家都在看日均量 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9991.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10001.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
最近有一些萎縮的情況兩千多億三千億跟過去以往五千億五千多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10003.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10025.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
已經越走越遠了這個也是不是代表一個整個股市熊市的來臨我想委員這樣講我有些是認同有些沒那麼認同第一個就是我們確實從4月2號開始其實我們除了有兩天因為那個量超過6000億接下來大概就維持在2000再3000億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10029.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10049.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
那確實比去年的我們的日均量比如說是有比較低我想這也是反映了市場對未來不確定性的一些的一致性的看法雖然剛剛委員提到就是說我們現在台股現在這兩天重新回到了所謂的兩萬點的這樣一個心理的一個關卡不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10050.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10065.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我們站在一個資本市場的主管機關的角度我們還是一樣我們在在乎的是市場機制能不能充分的發揮能不能是一個沒有能夠去除一些非理性的行為這部分我們是在對這個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10066.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10094.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
當然我們也看到就是台灣的產業在過去一年包括這個最近揭露這一季的報告我想大家都看到了其實我覺得台灣有很強的基本面的支撐所以剛剛那個委員說對未來台灣資本市場我們還是深具信心所以不論是滿漢全席甚至什麼排骨麵、炸醬麵金管會所維持永遠就是基本面 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10097.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10111.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
不過基本面的確是很重要所以主委對於台灣所有1850家上市公司的基本面是有信心的我們從我們最近揭露的一個財報數字這一季 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10113.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10139.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
所有的營收跟獲利都創下非常好的成績剛才委員講說基本面我覺得如果說講個開玩笑基本面是外面資本因為所有的消息面最後還是會回歸到基本面沒有基本面的支撐其實我覺得資本市場是沒有基礎所以我覺得這還是非常重要既然基本面是如此的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10139.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10157.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那本席有提了一個就是保險法第146條知事的修正條文那很可惜就這一次在整個修法當中好像沒有列入進去那事實上如果這個有關所有保險業的資金 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10159.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10171.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
當初我就未雨綢繆希望說台灣受險也好 產險也好投資海外的部分應該要多多來關心關愛台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10174.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10202.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
企業的發展特別是剛剛主委的一席話更印證了很多的上市公司保險公司不見得要投資海外最近整個受險公司的淨值嚴重的下滑大概慘跌超過2200億以上看到現在整個大環境的變化保險業大概面臨了一個三大危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10204.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10223.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
第一個 美國股市下跌第二 美國公債嚴重發生變化第三個 台幣的匯率不斷的升值那面對這樣的情況現在在下個月 就是五月 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10224.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10247.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那請問五月整個授權的它的淨值比會不會嚴重再往下掉我想這個淨值比啊它是根基於我們的IFRS財報的數字財報它的基本原則就是充分的反映當下所有的資訊來得快去得也快所以各位看到第一季 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10248.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10266.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
它會比較大的下滑剛好去年的基期是最高的那當然這個因為我們的淨值的波動直接反映了這個這些數字其實從長遠的角度來看不見得代表就是一個就是一個趨勢的確定我想這是也要再三的說明不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10267.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10285.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
任何一個的巨大的波動都是一個很重要關注的點所以剛剛也有委員關心過我們有沒有針對這些東西做一些推演那當然是我們日常經營的一部分剛剛委員用三大危機來形容我會覺得比較好是三大挑戰因為其實壽險業擁有這麼大的龐大資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10288.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10305.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
然後有這麼多的海外的投資那當然是他過去的很多歷史因素的造成那當然他就會受到股價匯率跟利率的影響這個影響是中性的有時候好有時候不好比如說也許我們的匯率台幣漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10306.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10332.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
對我們的那個那個債務工具評價會下跌但是呢帶動的利率下跌他的評價又會上升相對的未來我們接軌以後負債也會隨著利率而同步的波動實際上這很多的是很複雜我們隨時來關注這件事情所以請教一下現在國內所有的產險、售險總市值大概是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10332.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10352.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
市值我沒有這個數字因為我們其實現在大部分都沒有上市櫃過去大概5兆多現在已經成長到大概37兆左右因為我們現在大部分的保險公司很多是在金控下面它不上市了所以沒有我們只有少數公司單獨是在上市所以市值比較可能沒辦法看出他們真正的價值我們看到最近這個剛剛有說三大挑戰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10354.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10356.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
現在我們就是過去我們有一家正在做這個增資改善計畫中哪一家 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10372.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10389.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我們就不要在這邊單獨講一下另外低於300以下還有哪幾家300的數字因為這是動態的啦我待會請同仁稍微提供一下我再跟委員報告即便是動態啦那我們就是從3月底好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10390.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10403.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這個資料都有不過我們法定的這些的減核點是6月30號那一點跟12月31號那一天那其他他們算的只是他們內部參考用的所以每個月變動的情況你們數字上應該都有所以這些稅險公司面臨了很多爭執的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10410.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10436.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
大概今年預估會有幾家壽險公司需要增值現在我們如果從我們最新一季的資本市足率來看的話現在沒有立即上面這些的問題啦但是呢國際的金融情況隨時在變化假如持續下去的話我們保險法的增值不是說一碰到那個比如說不到200或不到3%就要增值不是這樣因為那個是波動很大我們會連續觀察兩期還有就是它 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10438.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10467.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我們分成四級來管理比如資本不足 嚴重不足 顯著不足所以最近會不會有發生接管的問題那當然這個是 我覺得現階段沒有沒有這樣的考慮啦保險安定基金現在有多少如果上次我沒記錯大概大概現在四百三十幾億四百多億的話夠不夠那個沒關係因為我們所有的這個未來他都有一些的籌資就是說安定基金他會 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10468.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10488.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這個逐步在累積依保險法的規定它未來可以有譬如說可以借款可以做其他的方式來籌資倒不是說一定要用這個錢做一個基礎啦是 我們看到整個壽險公司海外的投資比越來越高現在投資海外大概有多少的金額現在大概是60%左右總資產裡面大概60% |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10494.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10515.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這個比例是相當高的而且售潛公司大概很多都是大多數壓在美國公債或者是美國的一些其他公司債大概壓在美國公債的部分統計大概有多少其實售潛公司買美國公債不多大概佔5700 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10518.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10544.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
五十幾億左右對但整個它將近美國投資將近比如說將近接近九兆多其實不算高那個比例它們主要受險公司它投資比較多的是在公司債這些比較評級比較高的公司債金管會會不會要求他們為了風險的考量美元可能會繼續貶啊而且不是貶而已啊是大貶啊我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10546.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10568.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
台幣對美元的匯率最近台幣不斷的升值因為美國給全世界每個國家都很大的壓力所以面對這個情況經營管會會不會道德勸說要求他們在投資美國公債或是美國公司債方面要審慎的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10569.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10595.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
當然我們對於國外投資啊他們大概都有一定的這個這個方法跟管控的工具剛剛我們報告為什麼他們要買這些投資平級的公司債而且長期我有看過那數據大部分的比重是分配在20年左右的常債身上他們買這個比例不是為了交易他是為了要持續的獲得報酬跟他的負債做對應就是利息啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10596.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10622.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
所以說這些短期的波動對他實質的經營跟流動性而言是沒有太顯著影響只是說會計的評價部分會比較大的波動主委可是川普他說建議說100年那個利息就先免掉啊這我們的評估應該是針對政府跟政府之間啦對民間的部分第一個大概大陸嘛那還有日本嘛台灣外匯存底也非常多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10623.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10637.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我們買了92%的公債但是那是政府的部分我們剛才提到我們的授請公司是這些民間公司購買美國公債的部分其實比例相對是比較低的啦那還是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10638.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10665.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
主委這邊可以多多勸說台灣的基本面那麼好的話可不可以讓這些受險公司的資金趕快回流台灣做公共建設也好做長照也好這是我們努力的方向就是我們在跟國發會推動那個兆元投資我們希望說我們各個部會能夠多多提供很好的投資標的讓我們台灣所收到的保費能夠投資在台灣這是我們努力的方向這半年來有回來的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10668.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10692.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
就是我們對新錢的部分我們鼓勵他留在台灣每年的話會增加差不多大概是1.5到2.5兆之間的新錢今年有投資台灣嗎我們鼓勵他們這樣做還是要有標的才是最重要的加強力度那今天的部分討論的我還希望說站在民眾深斗小民的立場多多為他們的權益來著想我們當然謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10693.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10697.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝明財接著請李坤城委員質詢謝謝 謝謝主席那我們請這個金管會的彭主委是 請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10717.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10732.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
今天討論保險法的修法,大家的焦點就放在保單豁免的額度是多少不得作為抵押、扣押或強制執行的標的我自己也有提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10739.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10758.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
保單的豁免額度啦那你們是提到說衛生福利部啊 直轄市政府啊公告當地區每人最低每月最低的生活費的這個1.2倍的三個月計算啦那其實之前大家都討論過這樣就變成說每個地方會不一樣所以本期才會提案說那是不是就是用 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10759.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10785.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
台北市因為台北市是最高嘛台北市的最低的生活費7.3萬來做一個標準那不曉得這個主委看法怎麼樣謝謝委員我想說我們行政版本提出來以後經過大院公聽會還有收集各方的意見確實我們從減政變民降低社會成本的角度來看又能只要能夠達成我們的立法的目的我們對剛剛那個提案我們是覺得是個不錯的想法啦我們可以可以朝這個方向來思考這樣好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10785.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10808.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那我是希望說 就是說我們用一個單一的標準 朝這個原則來進行 好不好那當然我看司法院 他們也有提出他們的看法就是說他們認為說 如果說現在是用每人每月最低生活費1.2倍計算的三個月 恐難以充分保障受益人的基本生活那請問一下主委的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10809.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10827.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個主要是當時我們會有這樣的想法我們是基於就是說我們要橫憑考量債權債務人的這樣的權益再來就是說我們對這個計算的方式我們是參考司法院的這樣的標準否則我們不會用這麼長的文字去描述這個事情司法院他認為說1.2倍的三個月他認為不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10830.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10853.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那我們剛才在那個報告我們經過這一輪公聽溝通的過程當中我們也認為說我們對這個是持開放的態度所以也不是侷限在就是說是1.2倍的三個月嘛所以是可以調整的嘛對對對就是說大家只要委員會大家有共識我們都尊重那另外就是說這個本席也有提到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10855.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10872.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我想對於健康險跟傷害險,大概都沒有意見我有加入小兒中老的保險,把它加進去我發現,司法院沒有提出的意見跟我們的看法是差不多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10874.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10899.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
考量小兒中島保險是因應我國人口高齡化的趨勢為普及高齡者身故或失能之基本保險保障而推動的保險商品所以他認為應該把它拿進去然後我再舉司法院的民事庭他們的意見他說去年司法院在執行受險執行原則的時候有找金款為一起討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10899.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10922.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那時候是有把小兒中老保險納進去的所以去年的7月1號他們這個執行原則是有把小兒中老保險執行進去那如果說你現在這個草案又沒有把它執行進去的話那對於他們來講會變成一些爭議就是說現在債求人就是說現在沒有滿足他們的需求他再度去申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10923.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10944.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
又有這個爭議然後呢法務部有認為說這個執行的原則呢規定小兒中老保險的豁免執行然後呢他們也按照這個原則去做所以呢如果沒有把這個小兒中老保險把他納進去的話呢他也會面臨到跟司法院相同的這個問題啦所以我請教一下這一個主委的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10945.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10959.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
謝謝委員的關心其實這個議題剛剛從早上到現在非常多委員有蠻一致的關切其實我們提這個版本出來的時候我們主要是希望回歸到一個保險法裡面的精神因為我們保險法對 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10961.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10976.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
人身保險商品就四大類的分類其實沒有一個叫做小和中老保險它就是一個終身受險啊對對對就是說它就是一個其實它就會被我們涵蓋不是說那個名稱啊對對對就是說後來我們也講說現在如果說大家社會有共識的話我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10976.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11005.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
列上去我們是持一個開放單但不要用這個小額綜合保險的名稱那可以啊就是說我們不一定要用這個名稱嘛就是說它在類似這種終身授權的那邊你去計算一下好不好不是那個名稱要回到保險法上條文週延正確的名稱那也可以啊那因為就是說提到說我剛提到說因為去年其實你們有把這一個這個小額綜合保險我現在先用這個名詞把它納進去然後在今年草原就沒有那考量是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11005.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11034.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
沒有 其實應該主要是說我們你看我們那個原則其實某種程度的話就已經包含它了它本身也是一個人壽保險的一部分只要是它的解約金沒有達到大部分我們也看小額綜合保險齁大部分假設你是一個比較是如果你不是高齡投保的話其實這樣假設額度把它拉到一定程度你某種程度也是含瓜我們只是說不要針對一個特殊的險種做這樣額外的規定但是假設大家覺得小額綜合保險有它政策上的推動我們也是可以可以來討論但是不要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11035.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11057.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我再強調不要用一個我知道就是不要用這個詞啦回到他的精神因為其實我們還有很多跟他非常非常相同的這些的這個人壽保險契約一樣有這個社會保障功能有沒有這樣就能夠被涵蓋到我覺得這樣也是一個比較周延的想法不錯我看金管會這個態度算都是還蠻開放的我們是要解決問題不是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11059.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11088.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
因為我們覺得還是要考量大多數的人的權益還要橫平一下債權債務人的關係好 那再請教一下主委這個報紙最近這兩天有提到說這個備想科技它是說它是全國唯一金管會授權的這是它自己的廣告後來我發現它其實沒有講金管會我有上它網站去看它是講監理會全台唯一授權它也不敢講金管會它是講監理會全台唯一授權那請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11088.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11110.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
其實這個必享科技當初也有提出這個洗錢防治法的聲明最低度的聲明那你們現在不是又要求說這有21家本來有提出聲明的這些要去做洗錢防治的登記嗎這21家都有去登記嗎有些沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11115.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11141.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
剛剛同學講有兩家沒有來登記有兩家21家有去做這個洗錢防治法的法尊的說明應該是第一階段有26家後來有幾家沒有就剩23家23家在這一波我們的最後期限3月31號以前沒有來做登記的那這個又扣掉兩家所以21家還有其他不是洗房生民來申請登記的那加起來應該有31家加起來有幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11147.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11172.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
總共現在還有31家本來是21家有做這個保證說明的23 21有來繼續做登記然後10家是另外之前沒有來做這個保證說明的但是他們新加進去的但是並不代表他們都會通過因為我看你們這個登記的辦法你們是說9月底之前還要再完成洗錢的房子登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11173.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11190.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
因為我們是給這些比如說已經做完洗房聲明一個六個月的緩沖期就說如果你今天到比如說跟我們報告分兩種剛才後面加入十個他現在也不能做業務他等到我們同意他以後他才可以做業務因為他是以前沒有洗房聲明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11190.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11219.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那啟發聲明他現在就在進行他的業務但是呢他如果還要想繼續做下去的話他必須要在3月30要提出而且在9月取得我們的登記許可才可以繼續如果沒有取得就直接出局所以現在是我現在聽是21家還是可以提供服務那另外那10家還要你們在還要在另外在這個在考核他是新來的要取得許可登記許可以後才可以執行業務好然後在9月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11220.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11246.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
你們會在最後做審查,9月底有通過才能做這個虛擬資產服務就對了對,就是剛才新來的要通過才能做那些已經有的呢,要再取得這個東西才可以繼續做否則你只能做到9月那像畢祥也有去登記啊,我看那個名單上面也有啊他來登記並不代表會同意啊對啊,我是說登記是你的權利啊核准是金管會的職責啊那你們也是看到媒體之後才知道這件事情嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11247.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11273.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我們過去大概針對這幾家我們已經查過10家我們對很多疑慮我們大概都有去做一些查核當然這個當然是媒體揭露以後他主要開了一些分店那主要都是進行現金交易嘛這個部分未來我們也會針對這個虛擬資產的部分我們會改成無現金交易的方式來處理可以大幅降低這樣的問題你說改成怎樣無現金交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11273.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11278.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
跟委員報告,在112年跟113年完成的十佳,那那個114年的部分是在這個禮拜一有到閉峽那邊去做現場的去了解這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11294.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11309.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
那是媒體介入之後啊檢調都去查之後啊是 那在這個之前部分我們也是有跟檢警調單位部分有做一些的情資的交流所以我是說是在案發之前還是之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11310.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11325.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
是我們在案發之後在這個因為上個禮拜就有那個進行搜查嘛那所以我們禮拜一就派員到現場那所以你們也是案發之後才知道這件事情就對了是是是但是在之前的部分我們有做一些資訊的一些的交流好最後請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11326.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11353.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
這個主委虛擬資產服務法你們現在是這個在三月的時候有公布預告這個草案嘛大概何時會送來立法院我們現在是這樣我們大概預告兩個月嘛然後在中間大概開二十二還二十三場的說明跟溝通會我們回來以後會來整理我們的預計的時程是六月三十號以前送進行政院那行政院就會由政委來跨部會來審查那期間多久就不是我們金管會所能夠管控 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11354.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11379.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那至少6月底要送到行政院就對了行政院要先做跨部會的審查完畢就會送到大院來審查那看起來應該下半年度有這個機會我覺得我們6月30號出去就看我們行政院審查的進度跟各界的共識的程度好 那我請教一下因為大家說這個其中有一個最大的亮點是允許銀行發行穩定幣那這個穩定幣是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11381.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11410.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
穩定幣的話就是我們想說我們大家過去對那個虛擬資產特別是比如說我們這個虛擬貨幣大家都覺得它的波動很大因為它的價值大家有不同的看法穩定幣就是我們可以想像成1比1的代幣就是比如說是以新台幣作為我們現在初步是以貨幣作為這個當然我們現在的講法當然是先以我們的法幣當然我們我們在草原裡面沒有排除哪一哪一種貨幣因為現在世界上共通最多的穩定幣應該是美元 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11410.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11432.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
但是呢 我們也可以透過這種各種的幣別當然我們現在的規劃只是先做貨幣 就法定貨幣作為那也有人說所以有可能是新台幣 但也有可能美元對 就看我們市場上面但是這個東西只要在國內發它就有保管資產會保管在國內這部分呢 實際上就是1比1這樣的概念1比1的概念那這個跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11433.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11448.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
中央銀行它有這個數位貨幣那個咧它那個CDBC它有兩個那是不一樣的東西是不一樣的東西那個四大類裡面的其中一類這樣他們是另外的那兩類那發行那個穩定幣的作用在於哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11449.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11470.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我們想說我們剛才講一般民眾如果是你要投入這個穩定幣投入虛擬資產之前你不是會從我們的法幣帳戶換成一個穩定幣以後穩定幣才能夠跟其他的虛擬資產進行交換那等於說它是一個橋接的一個工具就像我們現在去購買虛擬資產我們先換成泰達幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11473.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11487.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
穩定幣美元的穩定幣以後才去開始去購買其他的產品所以說這個就是有確定要做就對了這個在我們草案裡面就看社會公司如果通過的話就會做OK好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝坤臣接著請黃珊珊委員質詢謝謝主席我請彭主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11505.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11529.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
委員好委員長我想今天大家都非常關心這個保險法的修法那當然剛剛聽到主委是說三個月的部分金管會不堅持是嗎我們持開放態度所以就是說我們還是希望達到一個平衡點這個法案我想在委員會也會很熱烈的討論那介入權的規範其實就是要讓可能受到權益受損的人能夠爭取自己的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11531.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11549.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
本來他是完全被忽略的能夠保障這張保單位被保障特別受益人的權利沒錯被保險人受益人他都有基本的權利但是在這一波的所謂的強制執行上面完全被忽略甚至沒有權利去主張任何自己的權利好 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11550.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11578.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
現在借入權裡面包括這個強職我們發現最多的問題是通知不到或者是沒有通知或接下來可能保單都是很久很久以前買的其實在金融機構裡面最大的問題是找不到這個客戶或者客戶的資料早就已經搬家遷移然後甚至沒有辦法通到那法院大概能夠查的都叫做戶籍地址那戶籍地址寄過去沒有就叫做公示送達其實對很多人的權益還是會受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11580.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11602.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
所以在金融機構目前為止金融機構如果變更地址都是要跟主動跟金融機構做變更嗎對 如果說你沒有去做通知變更就以原來留的地址對 它就可能會造成沒有辦法知道你的權利受到影響了好 所以現在的數位化其實早就應該這些東西因為像我的保單可能是我二十幾歲買的 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11603.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11625.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那時候我可能住在不知道班的前面三個家了所以現在其實在92年行政院在中華郵政有設置了一個通訊地址的遷移通報服務也就是說只要民眾去中華郵政說我現在從通訊地址變更戶籍地址因為有總統的原因可能不能變比如說房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11626.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11642.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
稅金的問題比如說學區的問題他戶籍不能變可是他通訊地址已經變了所以他換了公司了他可能需要通訊地址變所以主委這個東西在我們現在的社會化政府社會化國家目前為止金融機構並沒有參與到中華郵政這個簽職服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11646.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11659.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
這我來瞭解一下不過就是剛剛委員就是我們現在保單的部分我們現在那個我們有做什麼叫保單存的我要說的是金融機構其實是可以運用這個服務但是目前沒有中華郵政只通報政府機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11660.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11680.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我的意思是金管會包括金融機構包括各工會就是開放API讓他能夠查核這樣子的話對我們的保護的權益也比較完整第二個我們也可以鼓勵民眾去中華郵政登錄自己的通訊地址而不是要一個一個跑到各個不同的保險公司去登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11681.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11690.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這我會請我們同仁來了解這是將來借入權或者他權益受損的情況下我覺得現在的數位化政府其實都可以提供這個服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11692.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11718.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
當然所有有利於民眾權益的提升我們都來努力因為到法院去他可以查到戶籍地址查不到戶籍地址以外的通訊地址但是中華郵政紀念有這個服務我覺得金管會有必要把這部分建立起來我們所有的保險契約特別是人身保險契約上面都有個條文約定雙方權利義務關係那個通訊地址的約定你覺得我還會記得我二十幾年前的地址現在的變化我要去通報誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11719.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11746.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
基本上我覺得這是一個便民服務而且金融機關應該可以去取得中華郵政相關的資訊這邊也稍微講一下我們可以去下載那個保單存摺我們可以完整的看到我們現在過去的狀況可是可以讓他更更完整第二個部分就是我們看到金融圈最近都在併購所以金管會目前台新 星光 新興併還有玉山金 保德信 永豐金 金城銀 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11747.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11772.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
好像破局的還有所謂的凱基跟安泰所以主委你對現在的金融併購你的態度是什麼我想我從去年到現在我們講法都沒有改變因為金融市場是一個高度監禮的市場所以他只要在監禮範圍之內我們都樂觀其成市場的秩序維護跟安定是非常重要的市場秩序在併購裡面最關鍵最關鍵的其實是勞工的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11777.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11800.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
這個點在過去應該已經有一套的處理的模式沒有 還是一直出現狀況當然個別狀況有 但是我們覺得他們已經不斷的在好多了 但是我們可以再避免尤其是將來更多的精精藥病的話現在趙鋒金董事長 董事長那邊他說公股子公司也可以盡量開始整病 主委的態度呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11801.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11818.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我想這是要尊重財政部的這個看法不過我們站在一個整併那我覺得只要他們能夠擴大忠孝是一個有共識因為我們的台灣銀行現在已經輸給很多民營銀行了我們的公股本來最大的公股銀行現在所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11820.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11838.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
競爭力都不如民間的銀行這才是我們可能需要重新考慮的地方那我回過頭來講併購裡面其實最大的問題是我剛剛講的勞動權益包括這次出現狀況的最近有的新聞就是新展銀行又去告了他的員工那其實大部分員工是 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11838.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11857.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
花旗銀行併購過來的那花旗銀行跟欣展銀行在他們談判的過程中尤其是勞工安置的部分有一塊很明顯因為我開過協調會就是花旗銀行答應工會的條件因為欣展銀行沒有參與所以他們不認賬 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11859.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11873.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
等到所有的員工都已經進到欣展銀行有開放所謂的登記提前離職的預告但是只要你去登記了你那一年就拿不到年終獎金也就是說你那一整年的努力都是白費 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11874.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11902.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
雖然我們開放讓他能夠提前報告他要離職但是年終獎金的權益就這樣被犧牲新展銀行說我不知道啊我不知道你們曾經有過這樣的條件我只知道你們可以提前離職但是我沒有答應一定要給年終獎金這個到勞動部勞動部也認為不妥但是沒有人拿新展銀行有辦法主委我只希望有個要求在併購的過程裡面所有的安置計畫三方都要在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11903.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11925.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
不能推說自己沒參與就假裝不知道這跟委員說明一下其實我們在很多的地方都講過任何一個講過你訂出SOP吧你要求他們做到吧做不到的時候你有你的監管系統可以去做處理啊就是說我們在金融整併它攸關到各方的利害關係沒錯不是只有勞工勞工權益當然很重要它是其中之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11926.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11949.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
但是勞工權益在他答應之後或者是他推說他沒參與這件事情我覺得比較嚴重你只要說你沒參與你就可以什麼都不做那不是就是騙人嗎那這一點的話我們的不放在你們的併購合約裡不放在你們的promise裡面所以最後變成是勞工當成人大頭嗎現在我們的審核實務他必須要提供這樣的一個協議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11950.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11978.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
所以主委我說我只有一個要求嘛所有的安置計畫三方都要參與而且不能事後說因為我沒參與那是你們前手答應你的你去找他這件事情不應該在我們的金融合併裡面其實包括所有的企業併購都不應該發生這種事啦這個我們在做這個時候我們會但是因為你是高度監管所以你其實在精精病的時候其實你有這樣的權利要求他們至少三方參與應該不是難事 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11980.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12008.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
將來勞動部在處理的時候他也有個依據我們從過去這些時務我們都是希望金管會成為你的SOP在所有精精病裡面變成一個至少應該遵守的規範接下去還有一個小問題就是我們現在面對美國剛剛我聽到主委說我們的淨空令要持續下去那什麼時候解除不知道 限空令 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12009.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12026.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
要等90天嗎我想允許委員讓我們在整個管理市場上我們可以所以我們希望是因為限控令是穩定的訊號限控令還在的時候就是不穩定的訊號這會對國人心理上的影響比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12027.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12054.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那比較重要的就是在美國要跟我們談關稅帽壁壘的情況下其實在美國UST啊對於金融管制上面也有認為台灣有一些所謂的關稅壁壘障礙所以這些障礙裡面有一部分是說金管會沒有善盡良好的法制作業沒有給他們預告期間表示意見這我們做說明了其實這樣是一個誤會啦有好所以接下去很多的這些相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12055.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12071.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
可能都必須要現在開始一個一個釐清你做了說明我們也希望說不要成為美國拿來對我們做金融監管的這些相關的談判籌碼不會 那些的誤會我們都跟我們的談判代表這邊做充分的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12072.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12093.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
不會有這個問題所以接下去我覺得他們講這個有道理啦我們法規在做公告的時候其實並沒有提供雙語的服務所以他們在60天公告草案公告的期間並不知道台灣的法案的具體比較清楚的內容在我的印象裡面我們在內部開會只要有涉外的部分都會提供雙語的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12095.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12122.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
是 所以我覺得不是只有社外啊他要來台灣投資他不會只有社外啊他還是要看到你內部的規範所以我覺得政府現在什麼時代了這個翻譯並不困難對 我們會朝這個方向來就是說如果我們要成為一個國際化的國家我們應該在我們草案預告的時候尤其是金融法規這些都是國際企業會來主導的來參與的那這個部分的雙語就不用再等了 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12123.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12153.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
該有的就要有啊而且在公告期間就要讓大家都知道甚至我覺得進步的政府直接發我們的草案去給所謂的美國商會讓他通報他所有的會員這個可能積極度會比單純的公告有涉外的裁翻譯要來得更好這是我們努力的方向不過剛剛委員提到像比如說美僑 歐僑商會我們都有每年登記兩次的固定的說明我理解但是委員說如果他們還有這樣的反應就表示還有缺漏嘛對 我們會來努力啦好 謝謝主委謝謝 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12153.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12180.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
好 謝謝 接著請黃國昌委員質詢謝謝主席 麻煩有請主委是 主委主委好 詐騙洗錢已經成為所有台灣人的痛我們從去年開始在處理有關於打詐的事法 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12181.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12209.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
整個過程當中虛擬貨幣成為洗錢的工具早就不是新聞了這也是為什麼去年的時候我們不斷的要求行政機關對於虛擬貨幣要採行必要的高度管制否則的話這個狀況越來越多人受害結果沒想到 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12211.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12239.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
今年最新的狀況是必享科技跟詐團勾結洗錢每個月洗錢的金額上億元上億元發生了這個案子以後大家開始關心我們虛擬貨幣的管制到底做到什麼樣子的程度我們下去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12241.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12260.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
發現荒腔走板道說全台唯一授權通過金管會的洗錢防治聲明這不是笑話嗎這不是笑話嗎通過金管會的洗錢防治聲明然後呢然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12263.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12281.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
通過金管會的洗錢防治聲明代表什麼意義可不可以逐位跟社會大眾說明一下說這個聲明其實毫無意義啦他自我聲明啦自我表彰啦現實上面啦根本沒有辦法發揮任何管制的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12283.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12309.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
這跟委員說明一下就是也趁這個機會謝謝委員提供這個對外說明的機會我想金管會過去在行政院的分工下面他就指定今晚會是做投資跟支付目的的虛擬資產的主政單位當然第一步先從洗錢房子的開始所以我們第一步是用由他們進行洗房聲明開始這只是說他們先停一下這就是我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12311.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12325.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
通過了這個洗錢防治聲明剛剛主委的意思是這是他們的自我聲明嗎不是 他願意做這件事情以後對啊但是我們現在已經進階到沒有沒有 主委不好意思喔什麼叫做他願意做這個聲明 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12327.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12349.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我做這個聲明毫無代價毫無成本啊我出一張嘴啊我們在過去的時候我們對石家的這個東西進行檢查我們也採儲採伐其實我們也不是說完全只是聲明就沒有任何的作為來你告訴大家這個聲明有什麼具體的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12350.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12374.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
這個我們可不可以請檢察局來跟委員報告一下好來 這個聲明到底有什麼具體的效果現在大家看到業者跟詐騙集團勾結的業者拿著有通過你們的聲明來這邊欺騙消費大眾創造自己是一個合法的業者我是一個合法的生意的外觀跟表彰 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12376.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12393.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
讓更多的人什麼 讓更多的人相信他如果主委認為這不是業者單獨的自我聲明有實際的管制效果那就跟大家報告你實際的管制效果是什麼那我們請我們檢察局局長來跟各位說明一下 謝謝好 請局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12395.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12417.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那就是說檢查局在112年檢查這四家的這個這個弊傷比較大的規模這四家弊傷的檢查結果那我們棋局這邊已經做了一個裁罰的部分那至於說等一下什麼時候做的檢查112年的第四季那我們的檢查報告也都有給這個棋局那什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12419.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12424.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
什麼時候做了裁罰?在113年的時候113年什麼時候?在政企局這邊也有對這四家比較大規模的幣商已經做了這個裁罰罰了多少錢?罰了150萬左右罰了150萬喔?你們覺得有什麼效果嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12446.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12462.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
另外也報告委員就是說不是嘛我先確認一下剛你說去年有裁判的包括這個碧翔科技嘛對不起碧翔科技是還沒有檢查是今年在114年在這個禮拜一有去派員去對嘛所以我就請你針對問題回答嘛大家看到的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12469.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12492.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這跟詐騙集團勾結的洗錢集團非常囂張啊在網頁上面啊用通過金管會的洗錢防治聲明在做廣告所以跟我們報告這並不代表說這個東西是我們所以嘛你就大聲的跟台灣社會講嘛通過什麼金管會的洗錢防治聲明不代表什麼啊It's nothing |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12493.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12516.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
但是我們現在沒有任何的意義但是我們現在已經進入到我們現在去做更嚴謹的登記制的管理我想這部分3月31號截止以後現在有31家來申請我們做嚴格的審查我想這個東西我們對虛擬制裁幣商有提出申請嗎他有提出申請他在3月30號31號提出你們現在整個審核的過程到哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12517.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12538.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
現在就是我們大概已經受理的現在有31家我們會再嚴格來審查他們的條件主席站起來了我最後提醒兩件事第一個當詐騙這麼猖獗當虛擬貨物成為這些詐騙集團洗錢集團的工具的時候希望金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12539.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12567.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
要有具體的作為這當然是我們現在努力的目標我們現在訂定那個虛擬生產管理專法沒有關係啦就是針對這個東西來處理你們是不是有具體的作為成效怎麼樣社會大眾會看嘛是 我們來努力第二個他現在要跟你們辦洗錢房制的登記嘛是的注意看一下他的負責人之前擔任公司的那個總經理是非法的入資在台灣設立的 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12569.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12597.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我現在已經看不懂了早就被抓到了現在這個公司的負責人之前在擔任的是一個非法的入資在台灣設立公司的總經理但是呢暢通無阻繼續搞彷彿毫不設防一點影響都沒有一點影響都沒有這個是現在大家啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12598.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12614.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
沒有辦法理解的事情這是大家沒有辦法理解的事情第二件事情現在這家公司我就看不懂他部分的網站暫停營運部分的網站持續交易監管會有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12616.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12640.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
這個我們已經有跟 請檢察局跟檢調這邊來處理然後呢 現在拿他沒批調沒有 我們現在正在處理中正在處理當中啊這不肖的業者啊關了部分的網站當什麼上演法啊其他的部分繼續再搞希望金管會速度快一點 可以嗎我們這個目標跟委員講的是一樣我們也一樣要來 全力來阻止這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12640.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12644.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝國常委員 接著請陳一貞委員質詢謝謝主席 我們請這個彭主委好 請彭主委主席在這邊宣布 我們現在開放在現場用餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12665.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12687.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
主委本期在前兩次會期都有跟您詢問過就是研議民間版的創櫃機制那您也有回覆說今晚會有回覆說104年起已經開放證券商得經營股權性質群眾募資業成效有三家新創公司那時候的回覆是募資的金額現在有新台幣1700萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12690.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12690.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
1千7百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12707.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12722.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
又過了半年有沒有再增加目前是沒有增加的沒有增加 為什麼你們不認真做這個嗎沒有 貴買壯興其實他們有在做這個業務那他們有去鼓勵或者把法規做出來所以你們不重視這種這個創櫃這個民間版的創櫃機制的這種募資的這個業務喔還是你們的做法是錯誤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12730.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12756.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我們當然是重視這個機制重視怎麼會沒有成效呢我們現在所謂的創櫃板我們有做一個整個你看喔為了扶植中小微型企業你們政局有最新的函令解釋就是說通過限定綜合證券商可以投資創櫃板登錄期間發行的新股投資總計量不得超過券商競爭百分之五也不受標準公司單次發行的這個限制所以這個是比較新的新聞了 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12757.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12775.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那可見我覺得儘管會在這個彭主委過來的話包括很多的金融的這個措施我都感覺上有要創新有要前進有要這個但是這個雖然你們修了這些修了那些你們好像整個成效都很差因為我們從這個以這個募資來講的話我們講了兩個會期啦上個會期1700到現在還是沒有啊那你也知道我很關心這個議題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12782.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12803.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
不過成效差我們會來虛心檢討啦所以我們一直跟你們提出說你們是不是這個股權群募平台是不是要有新的做法嘛我一直在講說比如說中小企業主管的這個中小企業開發公司跟新創企業這些來做募資平台你們是不是你們有創新處嘛 對不對那找這個中小企業開發公司櫃買找來是不是一起來想看怎麼來做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12804.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12823.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
這個我們一定會來努力啦只是說現在的時候有一些法規法律上面的限制我們要來突破我知道金管會一直想突破很多法...我覺得您上來以後很多相關的法律都一直有在突破嘛但是我覺得你下面的單位好像對這些事情都有點不大認真啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12824.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12843.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
這也不能這麼說啦因為主要是說我們看結果嘛1700萬這樣算金額嗎從上個會議到現在那我現在跟你請求啦就是說這個我一直在講說這個中小企業這個因為還經濟部在管嘛那也有相關的公司有這些有新創企業嘛他們也有新創署嘛我們這邊也有這個創新處嘛這相關單位是不是一起來開個會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12849.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12865.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
是不是來集思廣益到底是怎麼來做啊我們已經建議很多回啦因為你們都被動不前進啊也不是啦如果說啊這個問題能夠解決好解決早解決啦那就是沒有努力在那個吧沒有這個問題一定是有它的複雜度所以我覺得我們可以再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12866.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12888.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
早時間大家來開會吧我們這一點我們是已經問了一年多啦我想說那個彭主委上來以後很多觀念都比較新嘛包括等一下我們要講比如高齡的這個保單的這個部分也開放了啦當然我們的想法是說真的是正確的事情又能夠做我們當然就盡量來完成好 這個我們還會繼續聽啦好 謝謝那接著我們講另外幾點啦 政局局聽到沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12889.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12908.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
這個績效真的很差一年以來半年來都沒有任何的成長表示你們根本不用1700萬根本就等於是沒有一樣等於是沒有任何的進步還應該說不進則退還算是退步來討論一下今天這個保險法你們是有研究說是要放寬放行這個保單職介對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12910.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12924.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
銀行的部分就是對對就是說放行給銀行做這個可以做直接的業務現在保險公司本來就依法就可以做我知道我知道我說但是現在是放行就是變成多銀行可以可以向銀行直接啦他可以做一個授信的標的只要銀行可以接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12926.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12945.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那這個跟現行的保險法是不是有相關的抵觸?這個沒有,今天就好像比如說銀行在做融資的時候,他會有他自己的考量比如說我們最極端可以做信用融資,不用任何的保險我不是不支持,我是支持,我的意思是說,那這個東西是不是要再修法?保險法120條這個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12950.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12977.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
原來的規定是向保險人借款耶原來就向受險借款嘛那你現在說不只嘛銀行也可以嘛比如說可能是A公司啊藍山的保單啊可以去向比如說富邦銀行舉例啦五大國泰、富邦、星光、藍山、凱基五大受險就是有做財管的嘛我知道你現在一直力推這個財富管理的部分我看得出那個金管會的彭主委的這個想法這個我們也是很支持只是說你這個東西不用修法是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12977.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12992.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
不用 這個跟委員打個比方比如說今天銀行要借你錢他說你個人信用很好的話其實什麼抵押品都不需要假設你今天比如說你今天想去什麼抵押品都不需要很少 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12993.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13017.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
就是信用放款比如說你今天來講的話我想去這個拿一個比如說我的有價證券來做擔保只要銀行接受我覺得我就可以所以你認為這個不用修法就銀行的因為現在的現在來講保單要直接的話必須當然是像原來的這個保險公司保險人這一方面沒關係你們要這樣解釋我也不要就是說你在法律的部分要注意這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13018.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13040.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
跟現行的法規有沒有符合如果要的話也必須要依法來辦那另外一個是說你們現在的開放方向是高資產階層嘛目的是為什麼只有開放高資產如果一般百姓呢就叫事辦的意思事辦就是說我們希望現在我們先了解一下這個業務所產生的一些的效益跟風險會是什麼因為我們不想 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13041.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13067.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
因為高資產的客戶他風險承擔人力比較高一定是先從這個開始如果我們事辦的結果良好沒有其他的問題的話我們再會擴展到其他就是普遍的大眾就對了我們也是在做一種如果他是符合法令的就沒有所謂事辦就任何人都可以做如果法令沒有不許的話那我不管是你是高資產還是我是一般資產的就誰都可以做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13068.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13094.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
這我已經講的沒錯但是法令這兩個字有兩個層次一個叫做法律一個叫做令是這樣嗎法令一個另外一個就是很多我們的行政規則很多的其他的監管的層次這個東西呢我們在事辦的時候所以現在也是不允許的嘛是因為你們可能打算用一個函令來解釋這個東西對因為這個部分我們就以法規而言你這個順序也要有行政規則上面或是治理規範很多是可能暫時沒辦法做的但是我們用一個有限範圍的開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13095.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13099.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
然後再一個能夠承擔高風險如果是有先放開放表示現在是不允許的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13100.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13127.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
對 現在就是 它只是不是法律層次的問題只是說你覺得不要用修法的方式只能用行政函式啊 或一個事辦規則啊 什麼這一類的位階比較低的方式來做這些好 因為我是支持彭主委一向往開放的方向走啦不管是我們說這個中小企業啊 募資啊 或者是新創啊這些我們都非常支持啊 這個我也 我也是支持只是說你這個開辦的期間大概你預計事辦多久我們現在的所有的事辦 大概我們都以六到一年為原則啦六到一 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13127.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13152.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
六個月到印尼六個月是個觀察期我們就看他情況如果說事辦成效良好就是說比如說那可能就會開放到一般的客戶就逐步開放到按照風險承受那這個下去可能會有產生一些問題就是說那到時候發生如果沒有辦法融資他直接沒有辦法償還的時候那那個債權優先順序是銀行嗎比如說我拿我的保單去跟銀行借那這個到時候債權的順序問題還有我的保單的效率會變成是什麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13158.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13175.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
就是說到時候會有相關的這個議題可能你們就必須要重視啊你知道我的意思嗎我的保單拿去直接的嘛那我現在我後來又還不起那還不起的話那這個保單的這個就會被押走嘛就會被這個我的就是融資方拿走嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13175.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13195.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
那這樣子的話你現在開放就只有銀行嘛對不對對做一個這個好那接著如果現在還有保險的效率問題喔這個可能有很多高資產的客戶我知道我知道那高資產的客戶定義是用銀行來定義的是嗎就是說哪一些銀行銀行這五家嘛財管這五家他們定義的高資產客戶嗎所以是由他們來決定哪些人是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13195.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13198.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
我們高資產客戶有一個標準一億以上不含不動產就是這個人的資產當然有些銀行會更高你明確定義個人資產在 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13221.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13242.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
1億元以上 不管它是現金 存款 金融資產 股票 不含不動產不含不動產 不動產也有 借也有 也有借的啊也有跟銀行融資出來 不含不動產銀行不動產的借跟不管是融資什麼這些都不算那要不要扣掉不動產借貸的金額啊 還是是淨資產啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13246.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13260.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
這個銀行都知道我們在財富管理2.0的規範都很清楚沒有我只是想知道說這個規定是由銀行來決定還是說就是我們金融會有同一個標準那接下來銀行自己會決定OK 銀行決定我們有第一個最低的標準往上你可以自己決定比如說你要服務什麼樣的客戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13261.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13283.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
有一個最低標準但這標準是由你們決定因為每家銀行可能對高資產客戶的定義不一樣我是鼓勵當然對金融我看黃志偉上任以來對很多包括像我跟高齡的這個高齡的這個也是有開放跟以前黃志偉時代也是有不一樣那我們對我對我們的這個我們國內這些金融的產品或各方面我覺得的確是有些東西是比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13284.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13301.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
不那麼開放 不那麼進步我也是鼓勵很多東西是創新進步我們都支持謝謝委員鼓勵跟支持但是如果有依法要注意的部分也是要注意尤其後面有權利判決的部分的時候包括融資銀行跟這個保單效益這個可能也要特別注意那當然 謝謝謝謝議員 謝謝接著請王世堅委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13317.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13319.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
謝謝主席我請那個彭主委請彭主委喂好彭主委108年那麼最高法院發了這個裁定就是說對於對於債務人那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13338.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13353.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
執行並且要求這個授權契約終止 償付這個解約金那這個裁定之後我光是講2023年一年齁2023年1月到隔一年的9月 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13358.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13373.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
我們全國法院扣押保單的件數超過92萬8千件這造成法院極大的負荷而且也讓人心惶惶那受險工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13377.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13404.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
以這個判決那麼他也接受法院來查詢保單過去法院查詢的保單大概一年比方說2022年才3500件到2024年光那一年啊就查詢了57萬3000件可以說這是不堪負荷啦那我必須先講一下當然欠債還錢這是天經地義 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13407.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13435.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
不過大家如果回想一下第一點我們國家的勞保一直到了民國77年喔民國77年之後才同意給中小企業微型企業的負責人來加保也就是說在民國77年之前啊如果你個人經營生意事業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13437.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13445.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
那不管多大多微小那你不能家寶所以當時啊政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13446.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13467.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
跟保險公司都鼓勵大家說來買個保險保障你不管你以後成功失敗好歹你有一個基本的生存保險所以當時的承諾保險公司當時信誓旦旦說這些保險資料絕對 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13470.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13487.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
不會被徵詢到這個個資絕對不會外洩這是事實你可以回去查一查那結果在這樣子的誤導之下保險公司業績大好今天如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13489.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13514.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
去要保的人 被保險人如果是惡性倒閉我跟你倆借了一千萬 我再一千萬全部買保險藉著你保險的這個機密 不得外洩我把錢藏起來 惡性倒閉 那這就不對可是不是啊你看這麼龐大的數字裡面現在民怨這麼高裡面 就是很多民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13518.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13542.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
當時你銀行、金控公司包括租賃公司、融資公司你願意借給我你頂多你就是透過金融的徵詢、查詢那那些查詢不到這些保險啊你針對我的抵押品、我的信用我企業經營的良善與否我個人的character |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13543.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13565.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
品格那來做出這個授信的同意與否不是嗎跟這個保險無關嘛怎麼突然間過去你這樣徵詢我你同意借我啦現在我失敗了你從過去你沒徵詢到的你也沒評估在內的你叫他說這個也要拿出來賠 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13566.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13590.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
所以我覺得我覺得這要做適度的修正也就是說要橫憑債權債務他們之間資歷的差距所以我是打算這樣我提出的保險法123之1條的修正有三大我這裡面列的有三個大原則第一個原則就是說如果這個保險契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13595.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13612.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
這個金額債權金額沒有超過107條第二項的額度不得作為扣押強制執行的標定107條第二項就是這個針對金額我簡單講68萬5嘛那就是針對針對死亡失能也就是傷臟補助這個金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13625.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13652.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這個不是現在我們在討論的說台北七萬多金門五萬多鄉下地區三萬多一個基本生活不是那你要他怎樣七萬多花完叫他去跳樓嗎如果他已經退休七十歲了可以這樣嗎七萬多塊三個月半年了不起一年基本生活就花完了不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13654.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13674.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
所以他製造另外一個社會問題 因為銀行 軍公公司 尤其是租賃公司這些是強勢 租賃公司還是虛高利貸血汗欸 他們也參一腳藉著最高法院的這一個判決 他們也來參一腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13676.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13696.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
所以我認為要加入橫貧法則要提高要提高豁免額度六十八萬五我覺得這不為過這不為過買服務棺材都要三十萬了不是嗎所以那第二個原則我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13698.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13715.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
這個藥保的債務人 小兒中老保險小兒中老保險最高 最高金額 理賠金額90萬而已啊90萬而已嘛不管你買幾張 就是90萬那怕他什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13717.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13740.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
不是嗎再來我加入一條就是說如果執行法院斟酌債務人債權人生活狀況跟其他形式有慎為有失公平的得扣押也就是說債權人其實有區分的債權人又強勢債權人就是我剛剛講的租賃公司銀行金扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13742.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13759.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
這些是強勢債權人那也有弱勢債權人弱勢債權人比方說被害人被車子撞到被你撞成重傷撞成殘廢撞死比方說圍觀大樓倒塌那些都是弱勢的債權人那被受到傷害的弱勢債權人當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13767.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13793.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
他們就可以來執行就可以根據我所謂的123條之一這個衡平條款就是說如果以法院來斟酌認為有必須的也就是弱勢債權人我們要保障他我們要保障他那這樣就公平啦那那個主委你知道嗎我剛剛在講強勢弱勢齁到現在為止喔到現在為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13797.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13824.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
現在來執行這些保單的銀行 租賃公司 資產管理公司佔了整個按量的百分之九十欸九成啊被這些強勢的其實是他們來搞的真的弱勢的 我剛剛跟你講車禍啦建商蓋得不好倒掉這種弱勢的債券只佔百分之十不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13826.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13844.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
那這個條款當初最高法院人家他的裁定他並不是要造成社會有這樣的紛擾我們國家所有的法律所有的法院都應該為人民服務不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13845.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13870.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
怎麼可以任由那些 清空公司他賺錢我們社會沒有人忌妒他但是 所有清空公司都賺不是幾十億耶現在每年都賺上百億之多他還來鉅於這一點來鉅於早年 現在很多退休的他當初買一個保險 為了他中老 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13872.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13883.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
現在我們在討論這個說 啊 五萬 三萬 最高台北市七萬豁免他七萬 請問七萬元 讓一個退休老人他可以中養幾個月那七萬都用完了 你叫他跳樓嗎所以我認為 這張保單 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13896.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13918.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
可能是這個終其一生為國家社會盡他的力量效命的微型企業主小型企業主個體戶他一輩子他奮鬥的目標就剩那一點只為了生存而已所以我認為啊出自123之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13921.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13943.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我希望能夠朝我講的就是我們納入橫頻條款那我們對小兒中老保險不多不管你幾張總金額才90萬元我們有必要這樣子苛刻為國家社會效命我們的老人家們有必要對他們這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13945.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13954.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
千刀萬里追嗎好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝世堅委員接著請林思敏委員質詢好 謝謝召委請彭主委好 請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13971.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13994.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
主委好 我想剛才黃士堅委員一分天意對於這個豁免額度可能這次金管會的修法我想委員很多都有意見他也為很多弱勢族群來提出他的一個憤憤不平的一個看法當然主委剛才沒有回答所以我現在請問主委我想今天我們審查保險法的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13995.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14012.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
對於豁免執行的解約金的債權金額行政院的版本就是以最近一年衛生福利部或直轄市政府所公告當地區每人每月最低生活費的1.2倍乘以3個月這樣的金額為計算的一個基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14015.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14039.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
但主委 我想請教你 你知不知道所謂的最低生活費它代表的意義是什麼我想 當然是因為我的理解 我以前沒有接觸到這裡的時候我也不是很了解為什麼會有這個最低生活費後來知道因為了解以後 強制執行的目的並不是要讓人家完全走上一個絕路啦還是要有一個基本的生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14040.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14062.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
但是這個標準呢 就要訂一個標準 讓大家好遵循所以按照各地的生活成本來看 那我們當初會訂這個就是因為這是因為強制執勤而來 所以我們就依循這個當然剛剛委員講的沒有錯 就是很多人對這個有很有意見 因為保險畢竟不太相同所以我們經過這次的公聽 還有很多的意見以後 我們剛才跟很多委員關心 我也提過 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14064.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14083.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
這個我們基於簡證辨明我們可以把它這個標準不要用這麼這個各地的標準我們可以統一的方式來做我告訴你一個概念其實是這個最低生活費其實它是用來當成是否可以申請成為低收入戶的標準我們以那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14085.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14100.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
以台北市為例,台北市最低生活費是多少呢?是20379元以六都來看最低是台南市的15515元 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14103.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14120.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
那麼我想我上次在上一次的我們財政委員會的公聽會針對這個要不要把房屋租金納為這個特別扣除額那我就去收集相關的數據內政部公告去年台北市的平均房屋租金是13,054元 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14124.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14132.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
所以你現在以最低生活標準以台北市為例20379元你扣除房屋租金13054元他僅剩7325元 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14139.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14160.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
扣除他住的需求 生活費只剩下七千三百多所以這是一個非常低的生活標準所以我認為說如果這一次修法你以最低生活標準來作為你們作為這一次豁免的計算基礎 顯然是太低了 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14161.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14182.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
也就是說一個弱勢的保險人 腰保人如果他過去或許他生活很好 所以他買了一張保單那也繳了很多年 但是突然間他面臨困境 他成為低收入戶他要去繳他的租金 房屋租金等等 剩下的生活費不多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14183.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14209.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
但是當他欠債突然間因為這個可能遭遇到什麼大的一個問題所以他今天欠債了但是他過去所繳的保險費他卻因為以這個你用最低收入來計算造成他很容易他的過去所辛辛苦苦的對他一個非常小的一個保障的保險契約就因此而被剝奪了 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14211.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14235.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
所以謝謝委員提供這麼詳細的這些的說明其實我剛剛跟委員解釋過其實我們在剛剛的前面很多委員也關心過我們這個標準只是當時因為依循我們強制執行法的概念剛才提到就是說這如果會增加很多成本我們也覺得剛剛有委員建議說我們用同一個標準比如像委員有建議用最低工資這是一個統一的標準不會因為地區的差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14236.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14260.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
再剛才像王委員提到那個額度的部分我們也覺得說這要有社會共識我們持開放的態度大家覺得都可以討論我們這邊只是先提剛才委員講一個月我們的版本是三個月大家有更高的共識我們都表示尊重這部分我剛才講已經說明過了所以主委所以你是贊成所以這一次的行政院的你提出來的版本確實它是不足以橫評這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14262.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14281.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
債權人跟債務人的權益當然因為債權債務人關係非常的複雜但是就說第一個我們這個經過公聽的時候很多學者專家有完全不一樣的看法其實主委我要告訴你保險它的精神跟目的在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14281.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14291.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
保險就是要保障我們生活上萬一發生任何的問題的話一個卑微的最基本的生活保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14292.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14311.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
那如果說連這樣基本的生活保障都要因為欠了一些債務就把它剝奪了這個就失去保險的目的所以剛才王世傑一直強調啊過去人家招攬保險的講得多好聽啊這個絕對不會被強制執行啊不會被扣押啊那謝謝委員其實我本身擔任保險的 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14312.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14329.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
老師快30年了你是專家我非常清楚其實保險契約本身來講如果純粹只是比如說是以保障的話這個應該不構成強制執行只是說我們很明顯看到就是說我們最近幾年很多商品的演進我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14330.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14359.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
很多人確實有一些保單是拿來當儲蓄的我想各位都很清楚這保單開始變這樣有些人就會拿來這樣才會引發這次的大法庭做這樣一個解釋所以我說我自己交保險三十幾年過去都不會是個議題當然這件事情我們希望趕快來解決這個問題所以我們來提這個修法所以剛才講我們也權衡各方但是我們對這個態度我們是尊重我們覺得大家有更高的共識所以主委我這次修法的版本你贊成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14361.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14386.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
我是認為說是以當年度政府公告的最低工資的三個月金額作為基數這個是一個好的地方就是它是確定的就很確定不會有什麼各個地方不一樣的一個情況另外也有人提出就是以剛剛講的標準最高作為一個基準用一個比如說以最高的直轄市就是台北市最高作為標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14387.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14414.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
其實我覺得大家利益都相同就是不要有地域的差別主委我結論這樣子我希望你們考慮支持本席的一個版本這個版本我也經過深思熟慮我也我個人也認為說這樣以這個這個基本工資我們政府公關基本工資來做計算的話這個應該是有兼顧到我們債權人以及我們被保險人或者邀保人的相關的一個權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14415.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14436.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
我希望你們能夠不願意現在這樣一個修法的版本而能夠提出更好的版本我想司法院其實他也支持說這樣子的一個以現行的版本可能是對我們整個債權人或者債務人尤其對債務人的權益的保障是不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14440.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14467.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
但是他也提出一個觀點如果說認為債務人可能藉此來分散保險契約也就是拆單的方式來規避執行的疑慮也可以斟酌修訂或免執行保險契約比數的規定那這部分金管會是不是也要把它考量進去其實我們有評估過仔細評估過要來拆單我覺得這個可能性真的不高因為保險拆單太辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14469.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14489.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
我們現在管理的實務上我們監理實務上也不允許保險公司接受這裡故意拆單所以司法院的意見你是不採納不是 我們的版本我覺得更能夠簡正便民就是用足單的那個概念來做我知道簡便但是太低了用最低生活標準太低了我剛才講說那個額度的部分我們可以討論可以尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14490.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14510.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
尊重我們審查的結果但是這個沒有問題剛才很多人有提出這樣的一個看法我覺得這個大家可以來討論我們是尊重直開放的態度所以你還是會支持說我的版本你會支持吧就是那個方向我們剛才已經確定就是說我們朝一個確定的方向但是你要很明確的告訴我們委員你們到底你們的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14511.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14527.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
那這樣的話我剛才講過就是說只要比現在的那個成本下降我覺得剛剛委員的那個方向跟另外一個的提案是非常類似啦我覺得是並同來討論的好好以上好謝謝好謝謝思明接著請羅聽偉委員質詢好謝謝有請主委是請主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14539.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14563.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
好 主委謝謝有鑒於最高法院108年度台康大治第1號897號裁定認定執行法院必要時得核發命令終止債務人名下的人壽保險契約並命保險公司償付解約金此裁定確定後保單遭強制執行的案件是即增 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14564.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14583.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
造成司法體系負擔的加重保險金融機構經營壓力上升並嚴重侵害到保護被保險人及受益人的基本權益我想人壽保險具有高度的公益性意在提供死亡、失能、疾病等基本保險不應視為財產的性質、任意的宗旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14587.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14603.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
那強制執行的程序當中未設終止保險契約及破壞民眾基本的一個社會安全網我想這也加重了國家社會的一個救助體系的一個負擔所以有違保險制度一個設立的一個本質 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14604.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14619.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
我想這些東西主委你應該都非常的清楚相關的一個脈絡但是呢確保債務人即便遭扣押執行能夠維持基本保險所以我們才今天希望能夠提出保險法的一個部分條文修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14620.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14641.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
以完善這個社會的保障機制我自己也有提案但是我有幾個問題想請教一下主委在法制的作業上任何一部法案提出的時候在行政院審查之前都會要求各部會針對修正的重點作為法規的一個影響評估請問能不能將保險法的法規影響評估提供給各個委員看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14643.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14658.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
我想我們在提案之前當然有跟相關比如跟我們的司法院法務部還有行政院那個那法治人民都做溝通還有當然包括學者專家我相信所以我說法規的影響評估我們想知道一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14659.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14674.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
會員可以提供給我嗎可以啊就是等於說我們的相關的過程文件我可以提供給委員好那剛剛主委有提到你也是在交保險的是的那我想問一下請問都是哪些族群被強制執行保單您個人知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14675.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14697.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
我想從現在契約的角度來看其實大法庭的裁定只有人壽保險契約但是實際上我們在實務上幾乎所有的都有可能購買到人壽所以主選不一定對 其實我們看那個配比裡面大概有七成四左右是傷害跟健康傷害險跟健康險 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14698.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14727.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
那這部分這也是為什麼我覺得這個東西啊應該直接把它排除這是我們立法上面很重要的就實務上很多賢總實在是不具備有被有查扣的價值的時候也變成這個獸類我想這個就是我們現在面臨到很大的問題我想什麼該排除什麼該保留這個部分我們尊重專業但目前我們看到一些困境就是這些當事者他們所提出的那社會已經造成這樣子的一個氛圍的時候我們注意到我們希望能夠重視那我想問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14728.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14745.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
主委你有沒有知道多少保單被強制執行現在就是總共我們現在按量裡面我們的統計大概123萬件左右123萬件我是不知道你的70年但是我的70年如果是20231月的話到20249月 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14747.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14771.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
法院扣押的保單件數就是92.8萬件沒關係這個沒有要比數字正確啦但是可以看到是數字量蠻高的所以我們現在才準備要來修法我是覺得稍嫌過慢但是行政院院版在設定上每人每月最低生活費剛剛很多的委員都在探討這一題 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14772.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14792.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
1.2倍乘以三個月作為免執行的一個標準但是司法院的報告你們有掌握嗎司法院的報告是標準偏低啦所以剛剛為什麼司民委員世間委員他們甚至是非常非常的批判甚至到很嚴厲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14793.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14822.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
那我們都是一貫的態度就是為民請命當然希望能夠把民眾的聲音傳達這樣的標準實在是太低啊司法院也提出了建議請問免執行的標準是否有調整的機會您覺得呢我剛才已經表達過很多次我們尊重可以可以做回來努力對我想從這個保障基本生活的權利啦重新評估這個門檻另外現行介入權三個月真的夠嗎您個人呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14824.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14848.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
有兩個不同的意見啦因為實際上 越早確定有人主張越早確定越好否則這個關係這麼久的話除非不確定狀況其實不見得是有利啦我的版本是六個月啦 對對對我們還是介入人往往是被保險人的配偶子女短時間要籌出一筆錢保住保單三個月多數人我覺得是真的不夠啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14849.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14876.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
經管會是否有實際統計或者是評估資料支持三個月就足夠你要說服我們不是單單就告訴我們三個月所以這樣子的判斷我是覺得說是基於作業方便嗎還是真的有這樣子的依據所以我要再次強調我的版本是六個月修法後如何確保各保險公司執行機關落實規定避免能夠損及保障基本的權益這個是我們現在要來努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14877.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14901.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
跟委員報告我們可以提供資料我們主要參考國家他們在提供一個月啦那我們已經變三個月這資料給我了解一下可以可以沒問題我們在主條討論的時候我們再來探討都沒關係但是我希望不要忘記基本的生活權莫忘世上苦人多對這是我們的本質啦族群各個種類都有但是我們永遠要救能救一個算一個就是我們不要忘記苦民所苦謝謝對謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14902.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14921.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
謝謝謝謝庭委接著葉言之葉言之葉言之委員不在楊瓊英楊瓊英楊瓊英委員不在那請陳佩儀委員質詢好謝謝主席那有請主委謝謝彭主委彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14925.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14942.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
喂好好 主委午安午安快速跟您討論一下我想我今天是要來給您拍拍手的真的要感謝您在那個今天的修法當中保險法167之一你們在立法說明裡面特別提到為了配合政府提供職業運動員保險保障的政策讓運動員可以安心參加比賽鑒於目前國內相關保險產品是 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14951.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14960.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
不符合 可能不符合運動員的需求所以可以開放向國外的保險產業買相關的商品所以有了這一次的修法是的投影片還沒有出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14962.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14982.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
好沒關係那這個修法我真的覺得非常非常的重要我當然也希望後續我們在委員會討論完之後後續所有相關修法進度都可以順利的推進那事實上這一題其實我在2023年9月當時我就向黃天牧主委做過質詢那非常感謝當時的監管會很積極的跟我們辦公室進行修法的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14983.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15006.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
那後來呢在2024年我還跟當時的林志憲副局長他現在是法務處的處長我們有討論過這個題目那我們看到相關進度真的非常非常感謝我要說是這件事情其實對於線上的運動員也好或是各式各樣我們的學生運動員職業運動員非職業運動員各式各樣的運動員其實非常非常重要所以我想要說一下來繼續給您拍拍手 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15007.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15031.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
值班公會昨天已經發了聲明說肯定行政院當然由你們來主導這個保險法的修法它確實可以健全選手的投保選擇這件事情真的非常非常重要但是所以我要提醒其實修法完很多辛苦的工作才正要開始包含在金管會後續要如何去完備這件事情因為修法的啟動但是後續的細節例如說我們盤點了我們認為體育署 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15034.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15039.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
還有大專體總因為他會接觸到很多高階學生運動員還有各個單項協會因為他們也會接觸到非常多聯賽組他們是聯賽主辦單位他們也會接觸到很多運動員還有各個球員公會因為他們本身是運動員團體我們認為他們都會是你們後續在修法後在確切執行上相關的建議應該要傾聽他們的聲音這個部分金管會是不是可以給我們一個比較積極的承諾沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15059.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15082.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
第二個是關於國內的保險公司代理經濟招攬的業者在這個修法後如何協助國內運動員關注國外可參考的保險商品這個部分我相信金管會應該也會提供相關的輔導對不對對 我們會來對 相關的保金保貸公司對 因為當然因為剛剛那個在做報告我也說明了七根文報告因為當初這個案子我還是當老師的時候我就被邀請去體育署做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15083.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15110.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
所以有跟評議室討論過了對對對就是我在還是當老師的時候他們就有來跟我討論過這問題我也是非常的支持因為我也知道我們現行的這些問題可能沒辦法滿足他的需求他也跟我講了很多很多我才理解這個問題那剛才委員提到就是說我們後續怎麼做配套比如說誰可以來做這件事情適格的保險經紀人怎麼買到一個適合的商品而不要成為我們因為我們保險法另外一個非常嚴厲的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15111.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15136.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
是不可以做地下保單那個是要很明確的區隔不要讓人誤以為說我們這個條文的開放的美意被誤用所以這部分我們會來跟請保險局這邊就委員剛剛提到的第一個相關的配套比如說這個要怎麼跟各個相關的這個體育單位來溝通來做出它最適合的保單又能符合我們政策管理上面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15137.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15164.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
目的這部分我們會來努力對好所以老師主委你真的懂非常非常多細節我們期待後續好那接下來我想要請教另外一件事情就是我前一個願望已經達成我要來許新的願望在現在的鄭麗君副院長在她當立委的時候2019年她建議金管會在上市上櫃公司永續發展實務守則裡面可以把投資文化事業當成是一個重要的CSR指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15165.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15181.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
那這件事情應該是經過一年的討論後續你們就納入這個相關的辦法裡頭我先想要問台灣八月即將成立運動部要掛牌後續我認為我們要如何鼓勵企業可以投資在例如說運動相關產業甚至是基層運動團隊這件事情有沒有機會來進行討論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15185.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15207.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
我想委員這樣講的內容其實我們現在對上市櫃公司我們進行了這些ESG評鑑公司治理評鑑 ESG評鑑還有就是包括我們對金融業做的永續金融評鑑這些我們都可以來朝這個方向來考量怎麼樣對於促進國人健康還是對於所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15209.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15222.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
鼓勵體育活動這些東西也是屬於我們永續推動的一個事項我想這部分我會請同仁來研究我們辦公室也會再跟你們開會最後最後來我要感謝證券期貨周邊單位各個基層體育單位的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15226.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15255.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
那我現在就是服務金門跟馬祖其實我們離島也有非常多運動基層團隊需要支持那其實我也是我們在國會女性外交運動的成員之一其實台灣有非常多女性運動的團隊也很需要相關的支持那我想我就簡單來這邊許願我想後續有沒有什麼機會透過證券期貨周邊對各個基層體育單位的支持還可以有更積極的做法我先給予你們現在所做的事情給予肯定那我相信後續應該還有更多我們可以一起討論可以推進的事情好不好是 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15256.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15281.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
有委員的肯定他們應該會更賣力啊謝謝主委謝謝謝謝主席謝謝佩儀委員來送卵接著請徐滬葵委員質詢謝謝主席有請彭主委請彭主委學員好主委好主委我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15283.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15299.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
這個從去年這個我自己的服務處就接到很多的這個陳情案件那尤其是很多這個七八十歲的長輩到服務處哭哭啼啼說他們真的被這個主任公司這個逼到要把這個保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15300.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15321.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
這個好不容易這個期滿的保險要解約要來償還他們的債務這個實在是我們聽了都很心酸所以我想本席也特別提出了一個保險法一個修正草案就希望能夠讓我們的主管機關體會到現在民間很多的鄉親很多的這個長輩遭逢到的一個困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15322.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15350.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
那主委我想請教一下這次保險法修法的核心當然我們是希望能夠保障這個所謂的一個人身的一個保障跟一個尊嚴的生活主委認同這個說法嗎那當然我自己交保險交了一輩子我當然知道這是最基本的好主委那但是這個課堂上的部分跟事務上我想你自己擔任這個經管委主委之後應該也發現有很多事務上的問題必須要解決嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15350.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15366.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
當然當然就是說我們是要遇到問題我們就要把它務實的解決好主委那我想我們還是強調這次的修法的目的是真的要保障債務人跟家庭的基本的安全生活不是為了減輕我們執行機關跟保險業者的一個行政負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15367.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15396.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
那主委我們在這個112年到113年之間被扣押的保險契約高達123萬件其中七成七成是所謂的健康險跟傷害險那過去我剛提到的過去很多長輩他們保了20年的保險30年的保險就是為了以後這個不要造成這個子女的負擔有一個深厚的部分能夠做處理但是問題是這些的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15397.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15402.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
到最後就被任意的一個扣押解約這樣子合理嗎我想這是確實一個兩難的問題如果委員你問我剛剛有委員問說 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15407.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15426.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
有人支持有人反對我說我如果站在是一個教保險學的老師來看的話我是比較持有條件的反對說啦因為我教這麼多年過去這一向不是個問題剛剛委員點到就是我們從那個大法庭的裁示以後開始成為這個內容所以我們剛剛看到比如說健康險跟傷害險 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15427.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15445.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
就以社會成本角度來看他其實沒有這個實意你去解他沒有意義雙輸剛剛委員提到就是說我們對處理這個我們有三個很主要的要件第一個維持基本的社會保障功能第一個第二個用最低的社會成本第三個橫貧債權債務人的權益這三個是我們解決這個問題所以剛剛提到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15450.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15475.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
我們也認同第一個就要保障國人的最低的生活要求就保障需求所以我們才第一個就先把健康障礙直接把它排除再來我們針對那個一定額度的部分呢再把它排除希望能夠但是當然這額度是多少我們在對社會溝通的時候就有完全不一樣的看法所以我們就提出這個方案當然我覺得能希望大家得到一個共識所以我們是態度是開放的 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15475.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15504.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
主委我想我非常支持您的目前你們提出的一個方向但是剛剛我們很多的立委同仁大家都有提到這個我們現在目前用這個每月生活費的這個1.2倍乘以3個月這個基準那我自己個人是覺得說我們恐怕是低估了這樣的一個部分那尤其我們目前依財政部的公告113年我們全年的基本生活費是20萬2千元那半年大概是10萬左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15505.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15534.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
那六都的部分大概是估到八萬四到十一萬四那我自己個人認為這樣子算下來我說實在的不要說在六都連在鄉下這個生活都非常的吃緊所以我自己個人我主張啦解約金跟保險的金額部分應該是要拉高到三十萬這部分我想這部分是可以來討論的那我想這部分應該是這樣才能夠具體保障他們的生活這部分主委能不能說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15535.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15557.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
其實剛剛委員提到就是說至於額度的部分我們都尊重大院的這個共識啦這個我們持開放態度剛剛有提到其實有一點我要特別強調我們這個的修法的版本如果委員有注意到的話跟過去我們在司法體系強制執行不一樣我們是一張一張單一張一張單來算比如說剛剛講假設我今天買了五張保單每張七萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15559.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15581.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
7535我就35萬的意思就是說我過去可能就像我自己我過去買了非常多的保單那這樣他一張一張不是統合來算所以某種程度也紓解了剛才大家說額度比較低的概念而且照顧到不是每個人都跟你行情那麼好不是因為不是行情好是因為你期間久了以後尤其比如說像我們年紀大了歷年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15582.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15606.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
就會買比較多嗎或者是說我們的考量點有很多剛剛委員提到我們覺得都是可以來討論的所以我還是要提議啦因為像我們接到的案子我自己接到的案子裡面有個當事人他繳了40萬的保費結果時間到了他的價值是60萬的人壽保險的一個價值但是就是因為被逼到要解約最後只有拿到30萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15608.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15629.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
不但沒有六十萬的保障還要損失十萬塊這樣子情何以堪所以在這邊我想主委我們不能讓保險制度成為資產清算的提款機這樣對我們整個保險制度的這個信任基礎是有很大的影響那我們也支持好的修法方向那也請主委這邊我們大家一起來努力是謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好我們先去許富奎委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15634.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15662.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在現在請何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在我們再請王宏威委員王宏威委員王宏威委員不在張家俊委員張家俊委員張家俊委員不在鄭振淳委員鄭振淳委員鄭振淳委員不在王美惠委員王美惠委員王美惠委員不在徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15664.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15688.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
我們今日登記發言的委員均已詢答完畢我們現在處理臨時提案共議案那麼為臨時提案的委員我們人數要表決人數不足我們來要處理嗎好那麼請議事人員宣讀我們臨時提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15689.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15717.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
鑑於司法程序需有特定犯罪嫌疑人後才能對犯罪所得或證據進行扣押程序但虛擬貨幣作為詐騙集團移轉犯罪所得的工具一旦移轉至境外將難以追回請金管會協調司法機關法務部司法院未來以追蹤金流為優先確認詐欺入境後儘速向境內外的實名制虛幣交易所核發扣押裁定 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15718.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15722.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
提案人 莊嘉賓 賴會員 李坤澄 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15768.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15777.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那我們針對今天的臨時提案請我們今晚會是不是就這個提案提出你的看法 同意啊 OK 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15788.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15810.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
嘉賓要不要做一下提案說明提案說明一下謝謝 謝謝主席那其實這個提案內容呢其實在昨天的院會跟今天的委員會都有跟我們的監管會主委還有包括來自司法院以及法務部的代表進行溝通那我再重述一遍因為整個司法在我們最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15812.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15833.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
這幾年來國人非常關切的打詐、主詐尤其是追回受詐的金額的需求上因為我們數位金融的發展使得這個贓款或詐款的移轉非常的迅速有時候很快的移轉到國外去那麼未來可能被詐團所使用的這些通路跟工具包括虛擬貨幣的交易都可能成為詐團運用的管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15835.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15855.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
那麼我們過去大部分的司法程序在對特定犯罪嫌疑人必須有特定犯罪嫌疑人才能對犯罪所得或證據進行扣押程序但是呢 虛幣啊 作為一個詐騙集團 依照犯罪所得的工具呢一旦依照到境外就很難追回所以呢 我們那時候是希望說 怎麼樣來啟動這個阻止這樣的一個受詐的詐款 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15856.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15873.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
那麼移到其他國家或者透過虛幣的交易移到過去那我們希望未來能夠請金管會能夠來協調包括相關司法機關譬如說法務部或司法院那麼在追蹤金流為優先到確認詐款的流通的路徑之後就能迅速地向我們境內外 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15874.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15901.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
的實名制的虛幣交易所來向他核發扣押裁定那因為這個是一個新型態的犯罪需要在我們司法實務上跟程序上的予以配合那我知道經管會主委一再宣示就是只要有助於打詐阻詐的我們行政機關都全力去推動那麼希望這個案子能夠得到包括我們行政院包括經管會包括法務部以及司法院在實務上的支持那麼能夠讓未來的阻詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15903.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15908.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
跟追回受詐的損失金流能夠予以實現來減低我們受詐民眾的經濟財產的損失 以上好 我們謝謝鍾嘉斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15935.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15942.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
他有那麼不開放,明明有一段他就做了,那我一出來就看到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15999.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15999.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16142.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16142.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
謝謝觀看 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16236.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16236.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
老闆 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16316.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16342.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
有話跟你們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16366.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16367.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
好 坤仔 OK |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16368.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16391.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
提案內容不能了解啊那請問我們在場委員對於我們提案有沒有意義沒有意義啊那剛才我也問過我們行政部門也沒有意見啊主委沒意見啊OK好我們就照案通過啊好好來來來趕快趕快趕快趕快趕快趕快趕快趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16399.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16399.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
到前面來 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16407.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16434.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
先跟委員說聲不好意思因為剛剛在跟其他的司處了解因為這不是我們法治市的主管業務那我剛剛有申詢了台高檢以及檢察司的相關承辦人那大概目前得到的訊息是基本上我們都尊重委員的提案的內容但是希望做一些文字上的小小的修正那請委員這邊來考量第一個是說我們目前的司法程序是不需要有特定的犯罪嫌疑人才可以進行扣押程序的 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16435.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16444.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
那這邊可能委員文上可能會有一點誤會是建議第一行的部分是到第二行的部分可以刪除不過虛擬貨幣的扣押確實是我們目前實務執行的一個痛點那不過在涉及個案的狀況底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16450.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16466.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
監管會比較沒有立場去協調司法機關主動去核發扣押裁定那我們這邊是建議是不是可以變成是他們以協助的立場而且是協助所謂的扣押裁定的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16467.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16495.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
因為這是我們真正的痛點我們申請到扣押裁定之後事實上對於境外的這些Vasper業者我們如何讓他能夠協助我們去落實這個扣押裁定尤其是在他在國內沒有設分支機構或是需要設好分支機構我們才能去溝通的場合裡面我想儘管會不會有這樣的一個高度啦那以上是一點修正的建議那我們會尊重委員的判斷法務部你是法 司法對你是不是把修正的文字競速 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16497.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16502.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
你現在提出來給我們啊對啊 現在提出來給我們現在給我們修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16503.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16526.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
是 那我們這邊就建議我們從前面從第二行就直接開始了就從虛擬貨幣作為詐騙集團移轉犯罪所得失工具逗點一旦移轉至境外將難以追回據點請金管會協助司法機關後面就瓜虎法務部以及斜線司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16527.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16543.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
未來以追蹤金流為優先確認詐欺入境後儘速向境內外的實名制虛幣交易所核發扣押裁定之執行那不知道委員這樣修改是不是能符合您的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16546.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16565.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
我再附送一次我們做文字修正虛擬貨幣作為詐騙集團移轉犯罪所得之工具一旦移轉至境外將難以追回請經管會協助 括弧法務部司法院未來以追蹤金流為優先 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16567.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16593.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
確認債款入境後 儘速向境內外的實名制虛擬交易所核發扣押裁定之執行之執行喔好 這樣鑑於最前面那兩字保留鑑於虛擬貨幣喔 好 那個但改成鑑於啦好 各位沒有意見喔 那個主委 也沒意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16594.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16621.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
好那我們就依照修正後的版本通過好本日會議做如下的決議說明及答詢完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其所定委員徐欣穎所提書面質詢均列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16623.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16638.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
保險法部分條文修正草案第15案等15案令擇期繼續審查請問各位委員對以上決議有異議沒有異議我們今日的會議程進行完畢我們現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16647.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16647.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
剪刀 |