| IVOD_ID |
166284 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166284 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-10T10:36:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-10T10:49:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:06 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a128e1119a2c25c0d71bb382f7501a139ecb9f93c172c55144a569ea12001d97b0ed05b3693a1b515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:36:35 - 10:49:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「財政收支劃分法」7案：（僅詢答）
(一) 本院委員郭國文等17人、委員賴瑞隆等19人、委員賴瑞隆等17人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等3案。
(二) 本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 本院委員邱議瑩等26人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
(四) 本院委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一及第三十條條文修正草案」案。
(五) 本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例」2案：（僅詢答）
(一)本院委員郭國文等18人擬具「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例第四條條文修正草案」案。
(二)本院委員李坤城等18人擬具「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例第四條及第五條條文修正草案」案。
【12月10日及11日二天一次會】） |
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主席 再想的委員先進列席的政務監事長 官員會長 工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請財政部莊部長還有我們國家金融安定基金管理委員會我們阮執行秘書 就是我們阮次長好 請莊部長 阮次長等一下等這一個黃珊珊委員質詢之後我們休息十分鐘 |
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國安基金從89年到214年總共25年的時間市值成長了10.5倍外資持比的比例雖然是多了38%但實際上也增加了8倍 |
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日均交易额从1000多亿变成4800亿也成长了将近4.5倍那其中最近这几年外资的卖超也差不多在1000亿900多亿所以目前相较于国安基金的总额5000亿应付这样的一个变化 |
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你認為足夠嗎跟委員報告因為雖然現在講的是五千億但事實上我們實際上可以用的只有兩千億那以目前的這個市場的規模跟交易的規模來看的話事實上我們在護盤因為我護過三次所以以我的經驗 |
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我們在戶的時候為什麼大家都說那2000億都沒用完事實上就是因為我們因為額度很小所以我們在戶盤是非常謹慎如果是說碰到大的一些這個外資口袋要夠深 戶盤才有夠力不是口袋掏空了來戶盤而是要有夠深的口袋去戶盤是不是這樣的意思好 謝謝那我們知道了好 那今天請莊部長2000億實在是太低了好 謝謝 請莊部長來 莊部長我們才經歷過 |
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我們行政院提出了一個特別預算結果立法院本院提出了修正案結果要增加每個民眾普發現金一萬元增加支出兩千三百五十億請問後來行政院有照做嗎普發現金一萬做了沒做了啊有增加舉債額度嗎有叫原來的舉債額度增加嗎有 因為我們有再舉債一千多億 |
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| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
後來又要被迫因為立法院的決議被迫要再增加舉債1000億好我們看一下最近地方政府也有民意機關提出在嘉義市議會國民黨團的書獎提出說要求市政府普發3000塊結果要5毛給1塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
151.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個嘉義市長說不舉債的方式發六千中央發一萬要舉債多一千億多一千多一嘉義市不用舉債可以三千變六千部長你有沒有很羨慕嘉義市的財政近年地方政府的財政確實有改善許多有在中央政府的那個財源的挹注之下以及地方政府的努力之下都增加很多所以他是存在用稅基證與發的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
181.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
206.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個部分因為是屬於他們地方自治的一些事項但是我們認為財務資源的運用我們認為應該以政策要優先考量相關的地方建設所以嘉義市政府好像不是只有嘉義市政府特別好本來我以為只有嘉義市特別好結果新竹市政府他也在明年度要發五千塊你所知道新竹市政府發這五千塊普發現金有要增加舉債嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
207.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
229.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
還是通通讓他稅計剩餘對他這個部分我不太了解他的裁員是來自於龍芝裁員還是他自由裁員不只是新竹市 往下看現在台北市 新北市 桃園市 台中的六都市長都是國民黨籍的結果民進黨在議員 在民意機關提出了要怎樣要提出普發先遷2萬1 4萬6 1萬5 5萬不等其中桃園市是市議員提案還不見得哪個黨派也通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
242.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
請問你認為如果六都的市議會通過了要補拍現金你認為行政首長 市長會不會照做 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
245.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
跟委員報告由於他們這樣通過事實上是一百一十五年是按照新版就是通過的才化法各地方政府我們可以看到新竹市在中央統籌分配稅款裡面增或他的成長是達到兩百五十五百分之兩百五十五新竹縣也達到兩百五十幾所以但有些地方政府不根本沒有增加這麼多這就是一個不均衡的問題請問一下你說新竹市嘉義市因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
275.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
293.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
去年年底12月通的財化法因此他們在明年115年獲配的統統分配稅款大幅增加所以不用舉債就足夠有錢來發現金是這個意思嗎那請問這些六都的四都是不是也是財政很好所以他們議會就可以通過來發現金 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
315.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
以直轄市來說確實台北市增加的更高還有啊還有基隆 新竹 彰化你剛講新竹縣對不對雲林 花蓮哇你看看這裡面呢都是國民黨的縣市長然後呢提案有兩萬三萬四五千一萬五萬不等其中花蓮縣已經決議通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
新竹縣也是提案通過所以看起來新竹縣就像你說的因為去年12月通過的新版財劃法我們財政部中央政府根據新版財劃法撥給的地方增加很多錢所以他們新竹縣也可以花3萬4花蓮縣也可以花5萬是這樣的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
351.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他們的中央統籌分配算法確實是倍數成長的好 那這樣我就很奇怪了結果我們去年12月通過的財化法立法院的多數在野黨還不滿足他說還要再播出更多出來我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
377.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
立法院立法之後要求行政院普發先行一萬元我們要用舉債來支應結果根據立法院通過的去年12月的財化法地方議會他因為發現明年地方貨幣的增加了他做成決議要求地方政府有的發有的不發欸 奇怪那如果地方議會決定要發地方縣市政府可不可以不執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
379.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
408.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
是屬於他們地方自治的事情好 這裡就很有趣了明明有錢民意機關也支持但是到現在很多縣市長好像還沒有決定要執行這跟目前國會多數的在野黨所表達的說喔 行政院啊財化法去年12月通過的我們在今年的11月又通過了一個更好的把中央的散財同時 散財更多的那麼他們擔心你們不執行了請問行政院的立場是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
409.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
414.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們來看一下 對於11月通過的財化法不是去年12月的 你們要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
446.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
委員報告 今年11月14號通過的這個財化法它要求是一般性補助款跟計畫型補助款都不能照變動比去年12月的增加更多多會更增加到一兆4329億那會比新版就去年底通過的增加2646億將2600多億啦我們來看一下預算法立法院要遵守預算法 立法院當然要 這法律大家都要遵守快近年目前四個月提出來立法院審議行政院有做了嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
448.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
461.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
對 預算法立法院在明年度開始前一個月要議決現在剩不到一個月了有沒有完成議決目前來說看起來還沒有都還沒有審查都還沒開始審查不可能合乎預算法51條 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
463.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
491.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在野黨占多數的國會已經明白違反了預算法了嘛然後呢他還要求怎樣你們現在送來的是根據去年12月的財化法現在立法院的多數就是在野黨要求你們要根據11月的財化法重新編制預算可以嗎我想明年度的總預算已經在大院那還是請大院能夠交付審查然後可以讓新的施政可以繼續推動好那我們來看一下除了違反 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
492.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
512.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你說的大運是立法院違反預算法之外我們看財政紀律法 他說立法委員所提法律院大幅增加政府稅出或陰鮮指明彌補資金的來源請問本院在11月通過的更新的財政收支劃分法大幅增加了中央政府的支出有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
513.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
538.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
大幅增加了中央政府的支出是2600多億增加2600億有沒有彌補資金的來源有沒有指名沒有沒有好而且財政紀律法第7條你也說了各級機關包括立法院在修訂法律的時候不得增訂固定經費額度或比率保障請問去年12月的財化法或今年11月的財化法有沒有這樣做有沒有增訂固定經費額度或比率保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
539.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
556.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
这个部分确实对于尤其是今年11月14号通过对于一般性补助款跟计划型补助款都要求不能各县市而且是各县市都不能减少这个会影响到调进财政营需的问题对不对 额度跟比例保障那这样有没有违反财政纪律法 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
557.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
580.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我想這個部分光是超過這個公債的比例就已經是更是不只是財政紀律法還有公債法我們看公債法公債法的舉債額度不得超過15%那去年12月的跟今年11月的剛剛已經把你整理出來了去年12月的多了快3000億今年再修的11月又多了2646億增加了5600多億舉債要佔到17.1有沒有違反公債法 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
586.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
605.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
當然違反因為公債法上限是15%財政部可以違反公債法嗎不行公務員都必須要克遵法律財政部可以違反財政紀律法嗎當然也不行啊是法律立法院可以違反預算法嗎所有公職人員都不能違反法律包括立法院是好那請問吃這個也養吃那個也養 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
607.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
628.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
要不你就是違反立法院通過的財化法要不你就是違反立法院通過的預算法財政機率法跟公債法你覺得你選擇要違反哪一個我們都不可以違背法律那你怎麼辦你那個也不違法這個也不違法都做不到啊那我們往下看現在的問題啊我們剛剛看到那個情況中央要 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
630.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
648.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
執行立法院通過的普發現金一萬塊要舉債地方議會通過要普發現金是不用舉債地方政府很有錢用稅計證明就可以了還有人敢不發結果立法院通過的財政收支方法要你違法舉債再分配給地方政府你覺得這是不是劫貧計負 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
650.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
665.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在分配上不均衡的結果就是讓負者更負 但是然後真正比較財政弱的縣市沒有獲得補助 而且也讓中央的財政失去了韌性這樣的情況 違法違憲這是你財政部可以說的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
667.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
688.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我想財政部不管怎麼樣都必須在合法這個不是你財政部說的這是憲法大法官4-391號說的因為根據我們的憲法59條根據70條所以4-391做成了如果立法院做出了剛剛所說的事情不用需要財政部來說他違法違憲大法官就說他違法違憲了你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
690.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
711.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
當然憲法上的爭議是由大法官的憲法法庭來審議這不是未來 過去就有講過了未來現在憲法庭攤換了好那這邊可以了最後一個小事情拜託小規模營業人導入行動支付的營業稅優惠我們講很久了部長來得及在今年年底定案我們明年有機會開始宣導進行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
712.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
730.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我知道這個案子我們複稅署已經簽出來目前還在做一個更細緻的那你上次答應我11月底為目標達成了沒目前來說已經進度是到滿前面所以你核定了嗎目前還沒有到部長怎麼會問署長的不是說在你桌上 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
731.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
752.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
上我桌上嗎沒有 這個部分來 署長講一下這個問現在在誰那裡什麼時候可以公告請署長盡量回答是 報告委員這個案件因為我們為了做細緻化處理中間有一些法律上的意見目前我們已經又再沉上去了正在沉上去在你跟部長之間要不我去找一找你們之間有一張公文嗎在誰那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
754.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
779.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我回去盡快看部長這個我已經聽兩個星期了我真的要把你們兩個之間找到看有沒有紙要掉在地上一紙公文送出了財政負稅署還沒到達部長室那到底這紙公文在哪裡部長可不可以承諾本週內給我們一個明確的答案可以嗎我想本週內給您一個答案一定是可以那年底前我們把它完成好嗎好謝謝中委員接下來我們請林思敏召委 |