| IVOD_ID |
16627 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16627 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-29T08:30:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-29T17:14:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
08:43:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a60978ff0fc080ab92e8313f24779fd214cfbd9360bdedb08522c0be27147af626825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、4月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、4月29日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:28 - 17:14:00 |
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蘇委員長各位各位早安報告委員會我們現在繼續開會對行政院院長施政方針及施政報告繼續諮詢進行諮詢之前我們先請副部長報告部會首長請假請行報告委員會行政院來函國家發展委員會劉主任委員敬卿本日因病請假由高副主任委員先貴代表列席報告完畢好我們現在請廖偉祥委員請諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1822.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1847.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
嚴寬衡委員請準備謝謝主席 有請卓院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1860.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1889.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
廖院長院長早 辛苦囉院長我想要請問一下在這一次關稅的問題上面賴總統提到希望台灣能比照美墨加的協定來和美國談判那就是說從零關稅開始談但是我們也屬於WTO的會員國那其他還有其他重要的相關的進口國家譬如說東南亞國協 日本 韓國也都是WTO的會員國之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1890.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1916.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以院長您知道這背後代表的意義是什麼嗎如果真的如賴總統所說我們國跟美國譬如說用零關稅開始談起那任何的產品如果是零關稅的話是不是代表其他的會員國也都可以來要求比照辦理所以我想要問說這個目前為止這是真的行政部門深思熟慮後的一個談判的策略嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1918.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1931.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
呃或者是難道是突然一時興起賴總統個人的想法是是這樣嗎院長是謝謝委員的關心從零關稅談起這是我們在談判開始的一個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1931.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1955.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
希望當然是比照美加墨這個MCA它雙邊的關係來談起當然我們知道WTO它有一致性但是很多敏感的產品在談判的過程當中還是可以有互相之間院長請問一下現在你們有沒有評估有哪些東西可能會是零關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1957.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1971.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
因為這個談判的準備工作一直在進行所以現在還不能確定有沒有預估啦談判的這個程序也一直在進行當中我們容許我們很多的這個談判內容是在談判桌上來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1973.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1990.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以這部分沒有任何的進一步的當然有很多的準備內部也有準備我們先把支持方案做好之後就是備妥談判的方案談判方案內容相當的豐富而完整現在就是放到談判桌上面去談請院長真的要以國內的利益為最佳優先也要好好照顧產業不要讓產業受到衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1994.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2021.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
再來不知道院長有沒有看過最近新加坡的前總理李顯龍的一個談話一個演講不曉得院長有沒有注意到這個事情新加坡的前總理李顯龍說新加坡過去遇到危機的時候能夠成功度過其中有一個很重要的因素就是新加坡是全球經濟體系跟貿易體系的一部分那這同時也是WTO主要的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2021.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2045.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
但是美國正在拆解這個WTO所架構出來的世界貿易體系但是他們說現在他們面對這個危機他們有一個很好的東西叫做CPTPP那CPTPP現在不管是英國加入也好現在CPTPP也在跟歐盟討論怎麼樣的合作所以我是想要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2046.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2065.053 |
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那我們現在我們的政府有什麼面對像這些國家有這個CPTPP那我們CPTPP的進度到底是什麼有沒有辦法加入那我也看到你們經濟部有說你們因應策略之一就是要積極的加入這些組織包含CPTPP跟IPEF可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2066.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2077.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
總是覺得這個只是一個口號啊沒有成果啊這個講了很久那請教院長什麼時候可以給我們一個具體的承諾這個進度到哪裡我們可不可以順利加入可不可以給國人一個保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2078.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2102.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
每個國家因應這個國家不同階段的國家的危機跟情勢都有他解決的方式那因為我們國家在國際政治上面地位的這個特殊我們如果能夠多加入這種多邊的經濟組合對我們是好的所以CPTPP一直是我們在努力的方向院長所以具體的這個進程奧克蘭原則三個原則他必須有高遵守 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2103.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2125.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他必須要一致性他必須要能夠全體會員能夠共識院長我就想要代表產業界韓國人問我們能不能加入你現在準備的怎麼樣最難的就是所有會員的一致性因為當中一定有人有不同的意見所以要達成高度的共識這個是最難所以院長我們就很擔心啦我們願意遵守我們的義務我們就很擔心啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2125.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2149.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我就提到說因為我們看到新加坡李顯龍前總理講的這個他們有這個東西所以他們有加入CPTPP並且在擴大CPTPP跟全世界的貿易合作除了美國之外所以我們台灣有什麼這就是我們很擔心的地方那未來我們產業會不會因此不斷的外流沒有辦法幫產業打造一個更好的競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2151.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2167.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以要拜託院長這個真的不能再當口號要拜託實際的作為剛剛你講的那些我們都知道也知道要去做問題就是沒有結果沒有成果跟產業界的要求是說如果到國外去設廠全球佈局一定要以台灣為核心 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2167.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2192.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
用台灣PLUS 台灣加一的方式台灣要更有台灣不能不合法這個人家有的這個他已經加入了這樣的組織並且在擴大合作的這個範圍全球合作的範圍那我們總不能只是口號這樣喊一喊然後也要求他們說你只能夠在台灣所以就要請院長這部分真的要回去好好的去努力去推動要有成果不是口號 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2193.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2219.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
院長下一個我國經濟命脈當然就分三個部分分別有貿易分別有投資對內投資再來是消費那貿易現在我們遇到很大的衝擊那投資其實我也過去也好幾次質詢了我們經濟的部分2022年到2023年的統計外國到台灣投資是衰退了衰退的非常的多衰退的可能有十幾% 20%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2221.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2246.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好那這兩個現在都有狀況好那我們的消費要怎麼樣促進這個擴大內需來幫助我們島內的消費好所以我這邊是希望是不是可以透過我們之前有說的在野黨在倡議的應該要透過這個普發的方式因為我們面臨到的是一個經濟衰退的狀況可是剛剛講到三大的這個經濟刺激的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2247.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2258.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
貿易有問題投資可能也有問題再來我們的消費是不是應該可以透過普發現金的方式也不是我們台灣首創我們是不是應該要透過這個方式來刺激我們的消費 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2260.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2278.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
普發現金在我國過去也用過我認為在一個比較成平的時代沒有因應國際很大的巨變的時候用普發現金也許是一個考量的方式但今天我們面對的是一個國際大的經貿情勢的改變我們必須用舉國的力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2278.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2300.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
放在同一個比較可觀的數字上面去做國家的整體開發跟建設對弱勢族群對產業做極大部分的去協助這樣才能夠達到目的經濟面對的可能是衰退那我們也講了經濟的幾個三大因素所以我認為我要在這裡在誠懇的建議院長回去好好思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2301.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2315.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我覺得這是擴大內需擴大消費可以刺激我們經濟或者是減緩我們經濟衰退一個很有用也很直觀的方法而且也可以直接普惠到全民希望院長好好參考再來院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2319.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2340.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這次的關稅對我們宣布32%雖然現在暫緩但對我們台中產業的衝擊非常大也可以說是這波關稅的重災區特別是台中的工具機產業不僅佔全台產值的七成對美國的出口也佔了全國的一半總產值高達18.9億美元 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2344.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2364.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那如果未來不知道結果如何但是我想這個還是很大的衝擊就算是10%也是很大的衝擊所以一旦未來如果談到可能假設還是原本一樣20幾% 30%的話對我們台灣製造的價格優勢也會完全的喪失未來也恐怕要轉移市場或是退出美國市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2365.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2383.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那當然我這個部分因為我看了你們的報告比較沒有針對這個整個台中中部做出很細的這個統計但是我就請了台中市政府統計那受影響的除了工具機產業還包括了我們的手工具機這個自行車航太 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2383.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2402.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
金屬製品光電面板相關的產業那這些在台中總共有9663家企業總共24萬將近5000人的從業人員所以這些人在背後代表的都是要養家活口的中小企業和這些員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2403.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2417.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那一段這個撐不下去可能影響的是這個數萬個家庭然後數十萬人所以請教院長依照現在行政院公布的辦法你們在產業的部分從881加到931夠嗎為什麼不應該是直接應該對產業應該要更多吧應該加到1930億吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2425.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2450.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
而且這一次在金融的支持方案裡面貿易融資利息的減碼措施其中申請資格有說要出口美國石雞叫雞鰭衰退15%但是我想要代表台中的廠商很多企業都在問這所謂雞鰭到底是什麼定義標準是什麼會不會讓他們看得到吃不到想要請教院長這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2451.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2478.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們不會對各個行業 各個產業有疏忽總統跟我 我總統到過台中我到過彰化跟剛剛委員所提的這些業者我們都有座談過我們了解他們的需求那我們現在編的930億其實我一直認為台電的1000億挹注那就是對產業的協助能夠讓物價穩定能夠降電費穩定另外您說的這個基期我們已經把它降到10%了不要15% |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2480.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2487.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
消退只要10%就可以了就在補助的範圍而且它的基期計算是去年同期或是去年的下半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2491.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2513.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝部長 謝謝院長我覺得這個部分應該可以再往下談可以再給我們產業更好的優惠另外你剛剛說台電的部分我想那是另外一個議題我覺得不應該是在這4100億裡面去暗度成倉所有的業主都希望我們不求增加我想那個問題必須從能源政策去檢討不過今天我們在這裡先不展開我要跟著這個金融支持方面來問 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2515.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2537.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我覺得你剛剛說有增加他們的支持但是我看不是啊院長因為對於出口廠商提供的這個貿易融資利息減碼你們行政院在4月4日的記者會上面宣布一般企業最高減收利息額度可達500萬那中小企業最高可達600萬喔好 看一下我們下一頁簡報 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2541.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2568.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這是原本的第一個是初始的方案有五百萬然後中小企業到六百萬可是你們4月24號的方案卻是雙降居然降到了一百萬跟一百二十萬所以我就說這不是正是我們企業需要的那個支持金融支持的時候嗎你把它降到這個一百萬跟一百二十萬怎麼跟原本的初始方案差這麼多我們把可以協助的廠商從五百家好像增加到一萬兩千家 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2570.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2585.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
把他的面拓廣了把他的金額降低了所以我剛剛就說了嘛你加碼的東西是不是沒有用到刀口上嘛你說你加了然後也降低了他的基期利息減免到500萬這個上限是相當高的利息減免500萬但是針對這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2587.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2614.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
重要出口到美國的這些公司啊你這100萬、120萬不就是杯水車薪嗎你把面拉廣可是你並沒有在這裡的預算真的在增加嘛所以我講的根本的問題是不是應該把這部分預算提高那個錢是利息的錢不是他代管的錢當然我知道啊但是我又問嘛為什麼初始方案跟後面差了這麼多那你說支持企業所以我覺得這個部分啊我是不是要拜託院長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2615.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2639.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這是不是應該回去再修改再去調整甚至最根本的問題應該是把這個部分的經費拉高也是很多業界希望我們把照顧的面給他放廣你照顧面放廣可是你的水庫沒有增加你應該要把這個水庫增加一年減免500萬的利息這個是相當高的當初我們設計比較高後來我們把它降到100萬那這不就代表你們當初是設計師亂喊的囉不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2641.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2665.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
不是嘛 所以我們當初說880億不夠那我們希望這部分的預算這個水庫是不是可以加碼這4100億我們絕對同意但是應該用在真正的刀口上這也是一個我要提出的地方應該對於這個產業你說120億本來500萬、600萬用不夠想要變成是面面俱到產業都要 我也很同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2666.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2691.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
中小微企業都需要照顧可是那根本的部分是不是你提高的預算應該把它放在這裡那個 報告委員我們不是只有在利息上面補貼它啦我們有其他的這個方式來幫助這些企業受困的企業走出一條新的路所以我們從技能上面我們導入它AI教學第二個我們從那個 部長謝謝你那是中長期上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2691.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2718.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們沒有 我們現在就馬上幫他能夠他比較耗能的設備我們現在都是在幫他提換設備你那是中長期本來就該做的事不要混為一談我們現在說他面對衝擊馬上面對到的問題就是這個部分那你原本自己也提出了有五百萬 六百萬的方案結果怎麼到後來又自己縮水了呢所以這是一件很奇怪的事你覺得沒辦法雨露均沾是不是最根本就是把這個預算提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2718.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2736.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
不是這樣子喔 報告委員我們現在那個部分是說因為他12天以後他就有90天的豁免事實上現在沒有碰到那麼大的問題所以我們就是把這些本來短期90天沒有豁免的時候所提出來的這個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2736.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2764.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
又再做了一些調整你講的那些我都認同什麼AI導入產業轉型產業升級這本來就該做這也是中長期的方案我講的就是這個現在直接面臨到的這個金融的部分的支持那最後我就是要告訴我們的院長請你們回去拜託好好跟你們的總統跟賴總統講一下跟你們的黨主席講一下好好的顧民生好好的拼經濟好好的顧產業好不好不要一直 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2772.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2776.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
主席 各位列席官員大家早 主席有請行政院左院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2798.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2799.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
麻煩再請卓院長備詢院長早院長台中電廠4月15日驚傳施工人員死亡的公安意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2817.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2838.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
4月13日晚間也發生公安意外一名工人量測粉煤機的時候不慎遭高壓電電擊上個月3月7號上午台中火力發電廠施工處工地室外模板起火燃燒串出了大量的濃煙造成整個龍井地區的民眾都非常緊張本席要請問院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2840.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2866.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
知不知道這三年台中電廠發生了多少次的火災這個事故抱歉三年的數字我不知道但是最近以來每次有發生類似的事情一部台電以及內政部下方署都會向我回報我告訴院長六次近三年發生了六次那今年三次所以加總起來總共九次 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2867.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2895.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那短短三年就發生了六次有通報的火警意外而且是有通報的這個火警事故不包含未通報的或者其他的公安意外那未來台電還要繼續在台中港興建多座的天然氣儲氣槽院長你要知道這個儲氣槽蓋在這邊連一次意外都不能發生如果說發生這些公安意外我們是無法承受 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2895.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2918.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那台中市民也不能夠安心我再次的聲明一路以來我都支持用燃氣來換燃煤台中市的市民絕大多數也都支持用燃氣換燃煤為了要降低燃煤的污染但現在台中港區既有的儲氣槽已經有六座加上明年要完工的兩座就八座那這裡面還不包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2919.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2942.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
中油未來計畫在外港區擴建4座還有我們台電5街要興建5座總共17座萬一如果未來發生什麼公安意外造成的連鎖效應這個不堪想像那我們知道天然氣全部仰賴進口可能會受到國際情勢天氣氣候海運狀況的影響而且通通集中在台中港 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2943.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2960.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
對於整個台中市的居民港區的人民壓力非常的大我想要請教院長未來中火儲氣槽的部件計畫如何是不是依舊照舊這樣子要先見實際做委員你也清楚台中火力發電廠曾經是全球最大的一個火力發電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2961.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2977.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那它現在經過我們以氣換煤在未來的幾年內它會持續地用一個燃氣機組換兩個燃煤機組一直持續地換下去一直到2030年32年時候我認為它的燃煤機組就不會再使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2977.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3000.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
頂多是做備用所謂備用就是每年所用的時數是受到限制的那麼他會用他的燃氣機組來降低整個燃煤量降低整個空污的放空的量所以說我們只使用燃氣換燃煤沒有錯但是現在我提到了現有的8座再加上增建的總共17座全部集中在台中港區 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3001.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3026.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
未來如果發生什麼意外天災地變或者是人為的破壞這個很難想像啦所以說過去台中市為了要發電要供電全國空氣是最糟的全國最糟的那未來現在未來有可能變成是最危險的所以這是我們整個台中市民中部地區民眾心中最大的隱憂所以我希望說院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3027.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3044.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
一定要做全面的檢討你不能把所有雞蛋放在同一個籃子你應該要怎樣把它分散風險這部分院長可不可以做一個承諾中部地區隨著科學元氣增加以及現在我們把它設定為精密製造的新核心未來它的用電量 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3045.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3061.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
已經需要大量的增加那麼現在所有的配置就是在滿足現在中部地區的而且中部地區現在用電量已經是在自給自足的情況下這個我知道嘛因為經濟發展沒有錯但是你把所有的風險都集中在一個位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3062.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3075.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那這樣子讓整個台中市的市民去承擔這麼大的風險不管未來怎麼樣安全的評估永遠是第一發電重要但是台中市的居民民眾的安全更重要我希望說院長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3077.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3097.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
雖然是沒有經濟考量 但是要做全面的檢討還是安全優先 拜託 這是第一個我們不是只有經濟的考量當然所有的一方面是最經濟 身分最多但是安全的部分 我相信這部分你關心的 我也很關心但是關心你要表現出來 要體現出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3101.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3109.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
所以我們的這個標準不是台灣自己設的標準這是世界標準最基本的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3117.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3136.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
以後我想我們還有很長的時間可以討論啦但是我這邊要再為我們台中市民發聲啦還為獲其利先受其害啦這部分是整個台中港區整個台中市民最大的隱憂啦過去空氣最糟 空氣最壞在台中未來最危險在台中怎麼每天都有台中 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3138.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3163.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
法定上不一定是台中的公安的要求是高標準的符合國際的標準院長接下來我要請教這個自來水相關問題這個2015年可能會缺水因為降雨量大幅的減少各地水庫蓄水不足會引發缺水危機以2021年大旱為例因為當年少有颱風來襲所以中南部多座水庫干涸 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3165.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3194.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
台中苗栗我們那時候出現了供五停二一個禮拜供水五天然後停水兩天這顯示出台灣的水資源調度能力極為不足最近自來水公司在許多南北水源調度送水管抗汗水井設置的問題包括在本人的選區還有我們霧峰苗水團人工湖也都是為了因應抗汗而生但是在過程當中因為跟地方缺乏溝通所以也造成了很多問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3195.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3206.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那送水管的部分要請水利署多多協助因為很多部分送水管必須要經過水利署所轄的河川流域都是經濟部所屬的事業跟機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3208.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3231.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
本期選區烏日最近也在協助經濟部橫向溝通的問題我也很願意協助但是經濟部所屬的各單位應該要再多多加強所以要請部長多幫忙另外請院長看一下這個自來水公司提供的全台各縣市的漏水表台灣平均是將近12%自來水 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3233.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3238.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我們測試公司的降低漏水率計畫在今年將重啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3241.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3263.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我的選區還有許多是早年埋設的PVC管很多管線使用的年限都比我還要年紀比我還大那不堪長期的重壓有嚴重的漏水問題本行的選區有七項的胎患管線工程除了要求目前施工中的要如期如質完工還要這個尚未發包的部分也要加緊時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3265.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3278.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
管太陽工程是延續性的因為礙於經費必須要按照年度編列來施作所以能不能請經濟部優先處理這個管線年限高PVC材質漏水率高的地區 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3279.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3307.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
是 報告委員我想行政院已經合定辦理這個降漏的計畫那我們依這個計畫分年逐步的來汰換那在這個烏日的這個地區我們投入9100萬元那汰換管線長度是6.4公里那我們會滾動的檢討這一些作為持續的以大數據分析漏水熱區然後汰換管線服務其他降漏的措施來穩定當地的供水謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3310.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3338.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
本期選區霧峰普及率是六都最低六都最低霧峰的普及率只有81.68%六都的平均值是95%全國的平均值是90%但是霧峰只有81.68%我們霧峰本身就有一個鳥嘴潭人工湖 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3339.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3366.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
鳥水檯人工湖在今年1月已經完工目前正在辦理工程驗收但是供水是供給其他縣市包括彰化南投跟雲林我是希望說行政院跟經濟部因為要多多重視霧峰既然重大工程在霧峰有關於自來水普及的部分能不能幫忙霧峰再加強最起碼要追上全國的平均值90%部長 院長可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3367.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3383.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
報告委員我想在這個大都乎峰地區的自來水管的普及率跟您報告106年到113年我們辦理的情形在核定台中有10.2億受益戶大概1.3萬戶那其中大都是這個0.05億受益戶26戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3388.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3413.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
霧峰是0.9億 受益戶有293戶確實是比較少一點但是114年 台中大陸並沒有申請霧峰申請一件 976萬已經核定了受益43戶如果有新案 那麼委員可以來把這個案子告訴我們我們來協助申請自然水 水電都是國人的基本權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3414.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3441.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那因為自衛水普及率的算法是供水人口跟供水區域的總人口去做比例那無法提升的原因有很多那其中一項就是建築法第73條第一項按書的規定就是針對未領得使用執照之建物不得接用水電者那雖然有顧犯四項例外狀況這個部分我如表有四項例外但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3442.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3458.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
因為實務上各縣市政府會訂相關規定所以導致全國施用的標準不一那我認為說水電公共事業影響的是民眾最基本的權利不應該因為民眾所處的區域不同而有所差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3459.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3474.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
而且我們常常接到類似的陳情當事人的狀況經濟狀況並不好有些只能暫居在主厝或者是簡陋的鐵皮屋他這樣的房屋沒有辦法取得使用執照 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3476.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3494.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我也知道說建築法是內政部的業務範圍但是這個部分我是想說因為跟我們經濟部所屬在水公司相關那能不能說請院長然後部長跟內政部的部長來做研議一起提出修法全面性的照顧這些我們的經濟弱勢的用戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3496.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3511.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們有積極的宣導跟補助地方政府來辦理減水系統改善這個不是說只有中央政府跟地方政府彼此之間都要透過協商來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3514.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3540.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我們在第五期的計畫裡面也編了106億元所以並不是說我們不去做這些事情我想這個部分剛才委員所指的對 我剛剛提到建築法73條第一項這個部分這個規範就會把我們這些相對弱勢的就把它排除掉了所以我們既然要照顧弱勢而且用水用電是基本民生應該一視同仁不能夠說這個對等的一個差異化 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3544.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3567.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
也不能因為所處的位置環境所以它的這個就有相對的一個差異對待所以說才請我們經濟部跟內政部由院長這邊拜託院長來請他們來做一個協商協調研議好不好我們八年的降漏計畫要一致性好不好全國都能夠一致性一體的在汰換各種水管工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3568.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3596.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
但是地方如果有需求 這個不是水管工程這個是普及力的問題好不好地方有需求也要提出來我們才能去做一定有需求嘛我剛剛提到就是說這些相對弱勢的地方要提出來啊那經濟弱勢的部分他提出來他提出來提不到你這邊啊他就被建制法被你限制住了嘛所以我們在這邊在國會提出建議提出要求說希望由院長這邊來請部長我們經濟部跟我們內政部來做研議好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3597.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3623.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好不好 院長好那再來我接著行政院上週是通過了特別條例草案預計編列4100億就是因為美國關稅增加造成產業的波及但是這4100億當中跟產業相關的目前看到的只有930億四分之一都不到所以這個也很不尊重產業行政院當然有權利提出相關的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3625.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3652.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
想要多做事當然可以提出來做但是舊產業的錢在總包裡面連四分之一都不到所以舊產業錢不應該跟國家長遠發展混為一談那我們是希望說這個既然要做事要舊產業我們就要真的傾聽我們接下來未來我們的國內的製造業會面臨巨大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3655.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3681.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
全國工種 包括我們的這些產業界所有的人都發聲就是說 製造業面臨到危險接下來主要他們為了要降低成本就一定會減少人力那無薪假 還有這個財源這一部分都是即將面對的我想請教院長有沒有評估國內有多少人會受到這個波及 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3682.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3682.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們對關稅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3685.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3696.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這個貿易秩序調整的時候我們對每個不同關稅都有做過一些推算跟評估那現在因為談判還在繼續當中還有72天談判還有72天我們會爭取最快的時間但我要為產業界請命台電1000億的挹注對產業界來講是非常的需要他們認為這樣可以穩定電價 穩定物價對產業是有直接的幫助我想要請問院長我們這一次是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3718.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3721.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我們不能太自信 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3746.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3754.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
好 謝謝嚴肝衡委員質詢 謝謝卓院長經濟部備詢 謝謝接下來我們請李彥秀委員質詢陳玉珍委員請準備我是不是可以邀請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3781.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3796.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
議員好院長好 最近又有一個大國宣布要成立主權基金您知道是哪一個國家嗎我們也很想成立主權基金你也很想成立 很好那你知道最近要成立是哪一個國家嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3798.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3822.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
沒有關係我跟你講是美國美國總統川普說一年之內他要求財政部跟商務部12個月之內設立美國主權的財政基金那他的資金的來源最主要是從關稅關稅作為資金的基礎所以很感謝剛才這個院長你已經正面答覆我就是說我們也很想成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3823.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3852.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
主權財富基金其實最主要的幾個資金的來源第一個是國家財政的盈餘第二個是外匯存底第三個是譬如說我們有自然資源的出口的盈餘那接下來是由政府來做投資跟管理喔那國家主權基金可以發揮國家主權的影響力現在全世界大概也有90個主權基金財富基金喔它的總金額達到8兆美元喔所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3853.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3871.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
其實台灣沒有成立主權基金我們已經落後在全世界很多國家後面所以其實我非常期待我們有機會儘速的趕快把國家主權基金成立起來因為國家主權基金成立起來我們如果賺了錢有盈餘不要說撥補台電啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3872.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3898.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
波普怎麼勞保健保其實我們都有足夠的資源我們也在財政上比較沒有後顧之憂川普也說他要成立這個主權基金最主要目的財政部長說他要幫美國人賺錢所以這幾件事情其實主權基金它具有國家的戰略價值對外當然也有對我們主權的影響力譬如說我們比較近的國家新加坡來說的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3899.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3920.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們很清楚有戴馬錫基金還有GIC他都是投資在科技跟醫療業那前幾年疫情的時候我們就很清楚知道新加坡因為戴馬錫有投資BNT所以當時的疫苗他就幫新加坡在第一批所以新加坡人他第一批他都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3921.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3936.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
可以疫苗可以打也沒有後顧之憂那當然因為他們因為有疫苗那也幫助整個國家賺了創造很多的財富所以主權基金也參與了全世界的主流趨勢的發展他投資國外 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3938.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3960.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
創造了財富這個是新加坡的部分當然新加坡的我們看一下新加坡無論是GIC的主權基金或者是戴馬錫基金我們看一下他總財政的收入達到1500億新幣他的財政除了經常收入之外就是說一般的稅收達到1228億新幣之外光是這些主權基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3965.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3992.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
它就高達了271億新幣就是說整個新加坡的政府的盈餘有五分之一是靠這個主權基金的收入所以看起來這個新加坡的這個主權基金它收入是不錯的只要它是收入是投資的正確穩當的話它收入是不錯的那包括在GIC新加坡的除了代碼協另外一個GIC的這個主權基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3992.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3999.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
他也是我們台灣台積電的第二大股東第一大股東是我們的國發會GSE |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4002.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4029.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我們國發會是佔台積電6.38%那GIC光是去年它就獲利從台積電獲利了4000億台幣所以台灣人很辛苦台灣的努力台積電的努力新加坡人民也分到一杯羹所以我用院長我用這些例子來跟您溝通或我們更清楚透過今天的答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4030.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4057.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
更讓外界很清楚知道國家主權基金它設立的重要性對國家主權包括戰略的價值包括創造國家人民的財富其實它有重要的目的在所以我剛剛提到勞保健保國家財政問題撥補台電其實更沒有太大的問題那我就要請問我是不是可以順便請一下國發會的主委 劉主委副主委上一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4059.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4074.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
上一次我們設立國家主權基金院長是交付說請央行做報告那我要請問我們國發會在這一塊上一次做報告是什麼時候你們相關的會議記錄跟結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4076.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4098.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我們大概在兩年前應該有做過討論不是在您院內嘛對不對那都已經在兩年前了嘛因為其實我們現在國內已經有類似的機制譬如說我們的台三基金啊那個跟國家基金是不一樣的層級你跟院長要的不一樣院長你很清楚我們要的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4099.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4115.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
國家隊的主權基金所以上一陣子的討論其實在龔明星院長任內已經是在112年11月討論過之後就完全無聲無息了如果院長您剛才給我是非常正面的答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4116.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4137.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我們已經要趕快進速的研究我也非常期望有機會在賴政府任內這也是卓院長你的一大非常重要的政績也好對國家未來的整個財政盈餘的方向是很重要的業績對你來說我覺得我們更應該積極的去做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4138.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4154.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
目前外匯存底有5770億美元我們的年化的報酬率大概只有2.64%就是很穩健但是你說多也不是太多我們光看淡馬錫達每一次的報酬率大概有18%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4155.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4172.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
但當然投資有高有低但是我覺得我們央行在這件事情上事實上他也是持正面的態度但是他是有幾個前提就說央行目前有三個主張第一個如果要設立國家主權基金的話我們就必須要有主權基金的專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4173.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4200.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
怎麼去做處理那第二個我們當然不能求援兼裁判因為全世界沒有央行作為主權基金的主管機關我們必須要成立一個公司看後續怎麼去做管理處理第三個要遵守聖利亞哥的原則資金來源應該由政府來統籌做規劃可以向外匯存底買或借但是不應該用無償的去做撥用央行對於主權基金有這三大 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4201.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4227.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
主張跟原則所以院長無論是立主權國家基金從國家的戰略上或國家的財政的角度上來看或甚至是國際的能見度那個新加坡投資BNT就賺了不少錢所以我覺得對我們台灣來說對中華民國站上國際的舞台其實有正面的幫助所以我要請問院長我們能不能也像川普一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4227.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4244.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
拿出破例他一年就要設立出來院長我們這件事情已經是在狗明星擔任主委的時候已經停在那邊兩年了所以如果院長你覺得這件事情解決國家的財政國家戰略目標都是正面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4245.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4268.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們能不能更您能不能更正面的答覆我我們要我們把提升為院長的成績來去處理這件事情那能不能設立專法來去處理然後我剛剛提到就是說資金的規模我們拿外匯存底的10%他就有兩兆的基金的一個一個規模至少就有兩兆所以院長您對於這件事情可不可以給我更正面的答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4269.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4287.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
非常謝謝委員相當關心國家主權基金這個議題我覺得國家發展到現在我們的經濟能力我們的財政能力跟我們的科技產業的發展能力都足以讓我們重新來考量過去我們對主權基金的設置是比較保守認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4289.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4315.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
認為尤其有落我們大概經不起一個大的變動如果經營不佳的話但現在我認為在各方面條件比較足夠的情況底下國家的財政能力我們要考慮的是基金的規模要有多大像委員說的要有專法什麼樣的管理他投資的方向要怎麼定定他要怎麼做一個公平的機制讓國內大家都能夠看到這個基金我們願用積極的方向用積極的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4319.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4340.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
但是時間過得很快,您會不會把它提升為院長的成績,因為過去都是國發院的成績,停下我質詢完可能就沒有了,所以能不能提升為院長的成績,來去討論這件事情,由您個人來主導,然後多久時間我們可以有比較具體的一個方向出來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4341.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4367.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
日前我已經跟央行總裁我們做過非正式的討論過那我會請國發會、央行跟我們所有的財主單位同時列一個專案提出一個報告之後我們再來研究後續如何進行那我覺得目前來看我們願意用比較積極的方向去做這個事情的討論盡快能夠把它做一個結論出來告訴國人我們什麼時候要做到什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4367.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4383.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
好所以這個議題也可以提升到院長的成績我會直接的來了解好謝謝院長好謝謝院長那院長主委你可以請回院長那我第二個就是要請問就是特別我先問NCC好了院長那個NCC的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4384.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4410.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我看好幾位委員已經問過了那因為今天已經是4月底了明天就是行政院會了那這件事情到現在還沒有具體的方向所以院長NCC的人事的提名現在到底明天已經最後一次院會會不會提的出來在之前的諮詢答覆過我說我在4月份希望能夠提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4411.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4437.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
明天已經是四月份 最好一天會用完我們在努力做這個事情所以還沒有結論 明天還提不出來就對了如果你今天還沒辦法回答 我沒辦法問你名單啦明天是一個時間 我是希望明天能夠達成至少這個禮拜是沒有問題的好 那院長對不起 我想請教一下就是說這個事情其實我看到您回答其他委員說找人選其實遇到很多的挑戰喔那這個部分人選有跟賴總統討論過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4440.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4456.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
我們在找的過程中間都還沒有但定案之前我會跟他報告這個人選其實NCC其實是行政院長您可以一手主導但是就您剛才回應我的就是說您又找到人那您又跟賴總統做報告定案之前我會跟他說一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4457.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4471.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
院長 之前您找人選 您說碰到很多的困難我覺得之前如果是專業社會的說演其實如果它沒有外界太多的干擾我覺得應該有很多專業的人士願意進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4473.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4492.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
所以未來如何讓NCC的這些專業人才他有獨立的空間去做他該做的事情我覺得是這些人願意留在這些位置上也是未來我們立法院在做審查把關的過程當中我覺得很重要的指標所以我們很期待看到明天的人選出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4493.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4514.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那也希望可以儘速解決NCC這個後續的審查的問題好接下來因為我今天時間很趕我接下來問第三個議題就是有關於我們特別預算的部分這跟我剛才國家主權基金其實有關係如果國家主權基金有了我們盈餘有了我覺得舉債都不是問題我們也不用去擔心財政上的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4515.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4537.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那我也特別看到這幾天包括主席長也好或是院長或總統也特別在媒體上提到就是說4100億我們不用舉債是完全用過去八年來的稅計的剩餘是這樣子嗎我們這次特別條例當中所列的未來特別預算4100億會全數用歷年的稅計剩餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4540.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4560.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好也就是說這4100億就完全不會取債就對了完全不會取債好那因為後面立法院也會後續做審查那剛才院長你已經做很清楚的答覆那我也關注到就是說在國防軍備的部分賴總統在媒體上有提到說我們今年要達到GDP的3% |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4562.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4588.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那如果是百分之三的話那相當於差不多一千億左右這一點國家需要的軍備預算我們絕對支持那時候賴總統在提到說國防軍備預算要達到我們今年應該想辦法達到百分之三的時候GDP百分之三的時候還沒有關稅這件事情也還沒有四千一百億這件事情這個國防預算在前這個在後所以看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4590.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4611.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
1000億是一定要的那我們採購軍品的項目1000億是確定了嗎還是還會再更增加院長因為這個都牽涉到我們後面你4100億等一下立院審後面又來個1000億或2000億我們總要大概知道整個立法院我們幫國家人民把關預算我們總是要知道說最後到底要舉債多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4612.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4619.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
這次的特別條例當中列舉的4100億當中1500億的國土安全認證4100億我知道了我要問的是國防預算3%還沒有在4100億不用完全取債那如果3%GDP的軍品我們國防跟美國採購是要取債的還是也不用取債我們如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4635.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4649.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
大筆的國防特別預算在今年度或是以後年度還要編列的話那可能會動要舉債所以你今年因為時間快到了所以今年要舉債嗎所以今年會送進來嗎如果今年會動到 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4650.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4660.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
比較多長年度的這個國防的特別預算的話那有可能必須要取債但今年我們還沒有討論因為賴總統說今年要提出備預算但現在我們還沒有討論到今年其他特別預算的這個案子沒有討論到現在為止好 所以預算規模也不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4673.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4684.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
包括軍品要採購的預算規模也不清楚國防的預算不是我們想變多少買多少還要向對方的一些供應報告院長 這個就牽涉到我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4687.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4713.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
4100億我們到底要撐破多少國家團隊可以負擔多少這就是我們立法委員法官職責的目的這兩件事情事實上是嚴重的嚴重的事實我們還是需要知道至少行政院要讓我們來做法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4716.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4717.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4744.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4770.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
謝謝委員我們都知道基礎建設很重要尤其這個水和電的部分是所有地區發展的一個基本的要素我想請問我們今天是來討論我們金門的用水問題最近有媒體報導說大陸福建打算要建金門的第二供水通道形成雙水源的供水體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4771.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4790.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我們看到經濟部的水利署有做相關的回應他是說目前金門的水源充足自由水源達到75%以上所以沒有興建就是覺得大陸沒有興建第二供水第二通道的需求這個只是大陸單方面提出的構想院長這是我們行政院的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4794.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4813.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我剛問的這個問題是我們行政院 你們經濟部回答就是你們行政院的地場現在金門美麗池用水量2.6萬那麼它的供水能力達到3.7萬那其中有一部分當然是引水進來的但有一部分是海淡我們是自由水源75%是嗎好像沒這麼多吧好像沒有這麼多吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4817.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4829.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這是你們的回答這是經濟部的回答水利使用金門目前水源充足自由水源達75%所以大陸沒有必要興建第二供水通道這是經貨回答所以我們自由水源是75% |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4831.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4850.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
接近吧我來問一下院長到底聊不聊金門公園你說現在金門每天用水是2.6嘛那可以公水等於有3點2.6嘛 每一天2.6立方米2.6萬立方米 每一日啦那我們自由水有3.7立方米 院長這您有回答嗎這是你剛剛回答 我說院長 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4854.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4872.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
供水能力是每天3.7萬啊需要的水只要6.6萬 所以不缺水就對了飲水進來的有2萬左右吧是 飲水是哪裡的 是自由水源喔跟大陸水進來叫自由的嗎那總統是不是前一陣子剛3月13號剛說中國大陸是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4876.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4903.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
境外敵對勢力嘛所以跟境外敵對勢力給我們水叫做我們的自由水源喔你們現在的對大陸的定義怎麼這麼混亂啊境外敵對勢力是說他要建基一直在侵擾國家所以那時候是境外敵對勢力但他供水的時候他就不是境外敵對勢力了是吧供水是跟金門地區雙方之間長期以來的一個那供水是這時候他就不變成境外敵對勢力了供水也是買的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4904.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4923.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
是買的沒錯,但是水是他的水,他也可以不賣嘛不是送的,對是買的沒錯是我們跟他簽訂一個合約長期再跟他買每一天我們需要2.6萬噸的水,其中有2萬多噸從中國大陸來嘛是從那個水管過來嘛,我們當然跟他付費買啦是民生問題啦是民生問題,所以這個時候他就不是境外敵對實體這個意思嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4925.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4949.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
但是這個同時是存在它的間接一直在侵擾台灣對台灣的國家安全一直有威脅沒問題沒問題那個部分你就說它是境外敵對勢力它供水的時候它是不是我們境外敵對勢力這是一個契約行為是一個契約行為這時候那這時候它算是我們的敵對勢力嗎在供水的時候它是一個契約對象所以這時候它是契約對象不是境外敵對勢力喔不是喔契約對象也可以做很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4951.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4961.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
境外敵對勢力也可以做很多商業行為我只要你這個清楚就好了所以我們也可以跟境外敵對勢力做很多商業的行為是這樣子嗎總統說要拖中入北你有沒有違反總統的意思我再次強調我們從以前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4971.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4999.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
西進南向東拓現在是合作陸北不反對我說的是拖中所以不是陸北拖中是脫離整個中國在經濟上對我們的威脅威脅所以他如果願意給我們東西就沒關係如果要威脅我們就不行他如果當作我們也是一個善意的契約對象就不應該對我們有敵意的軍機所以如果他展現善意就可以嘛我幫你解釋啦他如果對我們有善意把我們當作善意的契約對象就不應該用軍機將惡意的相向 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5000.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5023.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我現在就要跟你討論水因為我的目的不是要跟你爭辯總統說這個好不好反正這是總統的說法也沒有經過立法院大家同意反正是他的政策方向他執政者方向我不是在挑戰這個我是要跟你討論下面的問題就是說當他是一個境外敵對世界的時候他現在是有善意的跟我們共水那我們也要考慮到有一天他可能不會跟我們共水這個也是有可能發生 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5024.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5050.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
很可能的惡意不只這些就是我先就金門地區來講嘛我先不要管到台灣島這邊來講金門地區嘛如果說他有商業的話要跟我們供水那這樣很好嘛你覺得反正這個是好的一個經濟行為也是可以的嘛可以嘛 對吧剛剛你的說法是這樣子啦我們不能排除他有任何的惡意對 他不排除嘛 對啊所以那如果這樣講供電也是可以的啊金門現在電也虧損很大供電也應該要可以啊供水既然可行供電怎麼不可行呢那我們要在 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5052.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5073.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
安全能夠掌握的狀況之下當然水也是一樣 水電其實是一樣所以供電理論上也應該有可行我知道金門對中國大陸的一些依賴度是有的那我們也承認這個事實但是如果對方也承認這個事實就應該善意的對待我們有有有 很善意也不用擔心金門的路客都有到金門來對金門經濟幫助很大那我想請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5079.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5102.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我不是要跟你討論路口,我要跟你討論水電所以在這個情況下,為了國安考慮,我要跟你討論的是在我們中華民國,我們台灣地區可以做什麼它現在供水,我們現在水百分之八十都是大陸來的,每一天我們也不排除哪一天突然兩岸的局勢會有變化所以我要跟您討論的是金門地區供水的自由水源是不是應該要增加更強一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5104 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5128.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我舉一個例子來講 你看喔 同樣是離島地區金門 澎湖 馬祖這三個地區澎湖它的海淡水 就佔它的水源的百分之八十一就是它的水大概百分之八十一是用海水淡化 鹽水淡化在馬祖是百分之六十七那金門的海淡廠的人力 每一天只有大概一千兩百噸就是零點五 百分之零點五 千分之五 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5128.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5143.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我的意思就是說當然我們大部分的水現在都是從大陸來那我們當然也不排除啊站在政府有這個國安考慮的疑慮下當然如果好的方面我們希望連電也給他供嘛因為我們也可以減少虧損嘛我們也是很願意啊當然我知道現在政策可能如果照 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5144.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5162.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
院長剛剛說法只要是一個良善的企業行為接受那供電應該也要可以考慮嘛如果是往這個方向發展那但是現在如果我不跟你討論如果往壞的方向發展那我們的水是不是也應該要自己自主的能力要增加嗎這沒錯吧 院長這看經濟部水素怎麼規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5162.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5184.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
報告委員 如果你也認同中國大陸會對我們產生不友善的行為我不認同 但是我覺得我們要做準備如果所有金門的國人都這麼認為的話我們願意重新考量把海水淡化的設施去設置我不認同 但是我覺得我們要做準備你認為中國他一定會切斷你我不覺得他一定會切斷我 但是我要做準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5191.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5195.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我不這樣認為我們本來的回應是說跟你一樣說認為他不會來這個切斷但是你現在認為他會切斷嗎我沒有說他會切斷喔 我不認為他會切斷我跟你講 站在我的立場我的意思就是說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5206.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5222.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我們也贊成委員你的這個主張說他會切斷我們的水所以我們要未雨綢繆來做海水單位這個我們同意好 我的意思就是說我是贊成經濟部說的說因為你們現在說自由水是75%這是在呼嚨百姓嘛因為事實上80%是大陸來的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5225.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5246.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
他賣給我們水不是我們的自由水源嘛但是我不在乎是有萬一啊就像我覺得兩岸以前在馬英九時代都不會打仗現在到了那種每天在這樣說什麼敵對勢力什麼會不會打仗連我自己都覺得不一定啊我都覺得說不定有可能打仗這是我的認知啊我謝謝委員提醒我們啦現在他每天飛機來一趟每天軍艦來這邊晃 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5248.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5254.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這個擔心是正確的你的擔心是正確的所以我們認為我們認為你的擔心是正確的你終於發現他應該是敵外這個不是總統的認知所以我們也願意你的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5264.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5283.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我會願意來評估我的擔心是來自於什麼我跟您說明我擔心來自因為我看到我們軍機每天這邊繞軍機在這邊走我們的政府一點能力都沒有我的擔心在這裡因為它已經飛到天空我們政府都還沒有辦法把它打下來這就是我的擔心所以你主張打下來已經開到了我們過的那個中線我們到連中線都沒有了這就是我的擔心你主張打下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5284.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5298.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我支持啊 只要廢我們領空就應該打下來那他在金門上面廢了我們要不要先打下來如果專業領空就應該做這就是保衛中華民國主義的做法 我當然支持我當然支持 所以我跟你講我們的政府沒有連這樣做才讓我擔心我們終於有共識了 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5300.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5324.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以我們來講供水的部分因為今天不是國防是經濟的部分所以海淡的部分我支持政府因為政府既然整個政策這樣我們跟著這個政策走因為我原先覺得兩岸和平這樣最好他可以供水我們也減少虧損兩岸和平往來也很好既然政府已經把它定位為是一個境外敵對勢力那我們也要支持政府的政策支持政府的政策說好那水的部分也沒有75%是自由的 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5326.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5349.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
幾乎全部都是刀輪我們的海淡的部分事實上要加強我們也非常擔心你終於能夠支持說我們自己來供應我們支持在金門所有地方都可以自給自足不是只有水我們也希望電可以自給自足當然台電這個部分對金門幫助很大我們也很感謝但是水的部分是部長你是不是海淡廠幫我們多增加幾座我們會深入的評估如果委員支持的話我們深入評估我支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5350.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5363.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
馬祖五座 彭峰十五座 金門才兩座而且金門只能占0.12 講難聽一點如果真的兩岸局勢變很差我當然不希望金門走到那一步 我也想應該不會但是萬一萬一萬一對 你終於發現那個情勢已經變差了 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5365.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5375.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
形勢變差因為我們政府施政不力啦不然以前不是這樣子我們現在達成一個結論你們願意支持金門做海蛋多做一點啦讓他的自給力變高嘛這沒問題嘛好謝謝來那個國發會我想請問國發會這個主委之前這個謝謝金議部長這個趕快做海蛋廠多做一點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5387.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5413.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
當然真的 最好大陸可以不用共水 這也是很好主委沒有來喔 高副主委這個之前這個民進黨委員有說 說今年啦什麼這個114年度離島基金的預算 抓到大幅三減啦三減五千多萬啦 就是說那我想請問副主委啦我們像本期金門立委陳怡貞跟馬祖烈陳怡貞 我們有三我們有三這個離島基金嗎我們有三五千多萬的離島基金嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5417.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5435.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們有刪除嗎?我們有提案刪除嗎?有刪除我們有提案嗎?你說的我們有刪除立法監測基金嗎?五千多萬嗎?我跟陳雪生有提這個案子嗎?那個委員沒有吧?我沒有嘛!對不對?我們看一下原始提案跟統三 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5437.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5458.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
沒有山啦 你說的是桶山我知道 因為桶山6%嘛所以你們就把說那個6%等於是5000多萬就灌在陳學生跟陳玉珍的頭上好 沒關係 桶山那你覺得桶山的話 就是民進黨立委說這樣沒有顧及鄉親的權益好 桶山 我們來看一下好不好今年因為有在野黨多數嘛所以你們就把在野黨桶山多好 灌在我們身上好 那我們來看這樣說法公不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5460.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5477.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
112年113年之前那時候民進黨是多數這沒疑問吧在立法院是絕對多數高副主委也知道雖然所言長不知道高副主委也知道多數那時候每年都統三百分之六這個設施費統三百分之六是歷年來的固定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5478.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5495.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
每一年就是在這個部分統三百分之六不管是哪一黨是多數在立法院每一年的設備與投資都是統三百分之六是每一年審查總預算都會刪的統三的項目啊所以如果按照劉主委說今年離島已經被刪五千多萬就是我們國民黨認為在刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5498.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5517.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
歷年的統三最後都會在草野協商跟行政院我現在說的都是我每年都有參加草野協商報告院長最後的答案我講的是答案不是過程最後的過程112年跟113年也都是統三的百分之六的這個設備與投資費 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5519.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5522.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那最多有達成協議啊沒有 今年沒有達成協議而且很多其中在特定機關 特定項目不能留用我現在講的只有針對離島基金的這一項我沒有在講其他 我講的就是這一項那也是統三啊但是要在哪裡我們並不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5539.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5557.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
跟往年一樣 所以如果你今年如果你說今年這張山就是陳玉珍陳學仁不重視這個離島建設 刪除離島基金如果你要這樣灌在我們頭上那你要跟我說以前每一年 民進黨多數已經有八年了都不重視離島建設 不重視離島基金因為每一年都統三 民進黨那時候都是多數國會都是多數 這樣就沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5560.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5581.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
確實以前有達到協議 今年是沒有的不管你有沒有達協議你看 今年有沒有達協議 結果都還一樣啊所以 副主委委員你應該主張離島基金不能刪 統刪不能刪我當然主張不能刪 但是每一年都統刪每一年統刪 那以前民進黨是不是也就在刪啊也就不注重離島權益呢因為最後都有達成協議 該刪哪裡該刪哪個項目 哪些科目都有達成協議啊來 副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5587.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5604.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
你們這個 院長你們這個只要辦那個說謊喔老百姓喔 說謊就非常 辦得很快我們沒有說謊半夜 怎麼沒說謊你們說這樣是我們事 那以前好 你沒說謊那以前是不是民進黨就是那你是不是要對以前民進黨三這樣子六趴的離島建設基金來對不起離島人民來道歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5605.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5618.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
以前該刪哪裡 兩院都有達成協議那所以以前刪這個 也是刪6%就不應該道歉嗎所以民進黨刪了就不用道歉啊這次國民黨多數刪了就應該道歉囉我們連要刪哪裡都不知道 要我們自己刪636億 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5620.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5647.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這個就是給你們更大的權利啊讓你們知道哪些是比較不需要做的給你們權利讓你們決定哪些部會做得好哪些單位做得好不用刪哪些單位做得不好浪費的刪嘛這是對你們好啊連善意都看不出來你連善意而已都看不出來所以你們以前的三個離島基金統三六趴今年也是一樣並沒有多刪這是往年的慣例所以國發會的主委不應該說謊他今天沒有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5651.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5657.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
好 謝謝陳怡臻委員質詢謝謝主委長 各部會首長的備詢 謝謝接下來請馬文君委員質詢 劉許廷委員請準備謝謝主席 麻煩請院長麻煩再請主委院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5685.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5700.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
院長早安院長剛剛我聽到陳毓正委員在質詢的時候我認為我們的經濟部郭部長有嚴重的失言因為你的說法攸關我們兩千三百萬人民的生命財產安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5702.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5725.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
第一集到底要怎麼樣定義不是由經濟部長說了算所以我們希望經濟部長把經濟搞好就好了現在我們今天想要先請教我們院長在今年極端氣候其實我們還是很關心農民我們之前也持續也在這裡問了很多次 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5725.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5748.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那主要是今年極端氣候的部分造成劇烈的氣候變化那經常也會造成大規模的農業損害除了氣候農民還要對抗的還有我們的病蟲害還有種苗土壤的健康狀況等等所以我們可以看得到我們近年在整個農業災損的部分其實每年 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5749.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5768.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
編列的預算也一直在增加當然對農民來說是不無小補至少減少他們的損失可是我們也看到除了農損補助的預算不斷增加以外另外還有一個就是我們溫網市設施的補助那溫網市從112年到115年我們大概編了13.7億4年的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5774.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5800.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
要對農民做一些因為剛剛說到的嘛溫網式你如果雨太大或者太陽太強或者像有霜害或者像有病蟲害溫網式的搭設對很多的農作物其實是有幫助的所以我們在這一部分可以給農民這樣的補助當然對他們來說在整個成本上面他們可以降低而且可以種出更好的一些農產品而且還可以有比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5803.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5820.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
穩定的收益可是大部分的人當然還是拿不到我們可能升多收少沒有辦法一步到位可是就這個部分現在因為整個經濟的狀況還有很多的原物料的上漲成本增加等等那我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5823.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5846.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所有的溫網式的補助裡面大概有水平膨價網式簡易式的塑膠布還有結構型的鋼骨溫網式這個每公頃它都有不同的補助的金額那因應現在的所有的原物料的上漲還有很多都漲價的情況之下這個部分有沒有可能調高它每公頃補助的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5848.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5864.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我跟委員報告針對溫室的補助的部分包括六種最主要六種這種溫室的補助我們的那個補助的上限會每年滾動的調整會根據當年的物價還有它的結構的相關的材料去做一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5864.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5885.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
所以有可能就是了我們每年都會滾動調整那針對政府對於農民的各項補助這當然是好的我們也希望可以讓農民可以有更穩定的因為畢竟我們台灣還是以農立國的然後農業尤其在現階段其實他的基本的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5886.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5910.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我們所有的生產對我們整個國家安全還有韌性其實也是有正面幫助的可是當我們看到這些補助以外我們也看到它所衍生的問題比如說我們剛剛提到的這些溫暖室我們可以看到這些東西它不會爛不會壞也不會自然分解它也不能燒所以有時候當颱風來了以後它就有造成這個還是小的 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5914.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5941.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
他還有更多更大量的他完全沒有辦法去化農民也沒有辦法處理這個部分我們農業部目前有一個因應的方案嗎可以怎麼樣協助我跟委員報告針對農地所用的農模或塑膠布溫室的部分我們現在一直在做一個資源回收再利用的一個做法特別我舉東石這邊東石我們有一個再循環的中心那他要跟地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5942.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5960.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
透過垃圾車或是部長我為什麼會提出來就是你大概只提了東石可是其他大部分的地方其實是沒有辦法解決的比如像南投縣我們沒有焚化爐我們沒有焚化爐所以尤其 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5961.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5978.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
南投的農民非常多你像屏東也是彰化也是雲林也是這些農業縣市其實農民非常的多那申請這些問往事的補助以後如果他們也想好好處理可是沒有辦法的情況之下有的可能會變成偷買有的人偷丟偷盜 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5981.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5999.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這個對我們的環境影響是非常大的因為剛剛有提到他完全不能自然分解他也不會爛掉百年甚至更長的時間都不會所以這裡我們要求應該要有一個妥善的方案因為農民要處理這個他一噸大概至少兩萬塊兩萬塊不含運費喔你如果出生意不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6006.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6024.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
在那三區的車輛的運輸還要更多而且他除了運費以外他還有那個怪手因為他要去夾起來他要請很多的車輛所以農民為了一點這樣的補助這些損害的設施他必須自己做處理院長你想有可能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6025.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6044.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我跟委員報告第一個就是這個塑膠布是不能丟到焚化爐的第二個部分就是我們會跟地方政府合作透過地方政府的擠運然後我們協助成立一個處理中心讓這些塑膠布或濃縛的部分可以再利用那這個部分我想在台中在南投我們也積極的會跟地方政府在一起溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6045.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6068.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我們希望盡快可以提出解決方案因為它既然不能進焚化爐之前它是可以喔它要把它拆開要把它拆散變成很細微就變成好像塑膠粒所以農民沒有辦法處理部長希望在近期院長可以責成農業部我們希望在近期可以做到怎麼樣的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6069.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6092.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
然後來協助農民解決這個部分而且我們也是國土永續經營的一個方向好不好謝謝 謝謝那另外就是我們看到這麼多的補助另外一個就是農保我們已經連續好幾次的在總質詢的這裡我們已經有詢問過部長還有院長我們農保的問題我們因為我們任何一項政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6094.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6108.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
要保護的都是農民我們這一段時間以來我們聽到我們執政當局一直在對外說在野黨煽動了非常多的預算讓你們都沒有辦法做事 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6110.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6125.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
你們只是被煽動一年而且是部分的預算通過的還是非常高的預算可是這些農民他們繳了一輩子他們繳了三四十年當政府一刀砍的時候他就通通沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6126.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6150.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我們只不過被砍了一年你大概都是都可以這樣他就是他已經不具農保身份了他應該有的保障沒了我們一直提到這個金額不多可是是看政府要不要解決他的人數也不是很多可是我們在這一次在外面聽到霸團居然可以拿這個說我們主張要讓有工商登記的農民來領我們的這個農保 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6156.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6183.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
這是糟蹋農民我們在詢問院長或部長的時候我們有說這些農民他們是不應該是應該的或不應該嗎而是希望政府去解決因為他們就是真的農民他們在沒有政府沒有那麼多補助的年代在沒有這麼多的農業機具的年代他們靠的是人力和酒酸、漏水都是非常的辛苦他們辛辛苦苦一路走來到老的時候他們的農保沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6185.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6189.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
他們也繳了那麼久不然你政府早就應該跟人家說你這個不符合農保資格這個部分我們不斷不斷地講我們不希望他拿來當成在政治上的攻防我再一次在這裡提出來希望政府可以解決這個部分好不好因為他就是真農民你本來這個政策是要針對假農民的可是你傷到的是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6210.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6222.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我跟委員報告第一件事情就是說工商登記的部分我們不會處理65歲以上所以也不會有所謂的農保不見的這個事情他只處理65歲以下部長我為什麼會一直講他人數不是我們那2300萬人他也許是幾千人可是他就是現在還發生就是65歲以上就是已經被停了他就是拿不到商商補助費或其他的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6239.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6266.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我剛剛提到將心比心 當你們被山洞作戰的時候我在去年12月份的時候已經通知所有的縣市政府針對65歲以上的他只要去把他的工商登記拿掉就可以了那個早就拿掉了 地震我上一次舉例不是地震的時候就已經沒了嗎到現在他就是沒有部長 如果你說已經重新那他可以重新加保啊他馬上加保 第二天就可以連在一起啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6267.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6283.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
八十幾歲已經不需要重新加保了部長麻煩你了解以後我非常了解 這個我非常了解院長麻煩統籌處理就了解狀況以後是不是有一個根本的解決辦法一定有一個什麼行為讓他的身份發生變化但是部長剛剛講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6284.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6302.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
65歲以上 我們是不會把它取消之類的有啦 就取消了嘛你可以去調所有的 院長我們 這不用在這裡爭執你下去以後 下去以後詢問所有的農會把65歲以上被停掉的如果他可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6303.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6311.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
了解說他是真的農民是不是有一個方案來協助解決今天這個問題這個我回去就會做因為時間的關係我們希望院長我們已經談了那麼多次幫幫他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6319.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6338.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
幫幫農民 早期的農民真的很辛苦我們現在我們剛剛提到的我們補助那麼多他們現在有些親農其實他們如果有些創新的做法他們可以有比較好的收益他們不用像過去是在烈日底下以前沒有穿鞋子的時候走低頭 鞋子穿透的時候那種土壤都是用鋤頭一鋤一鋤挖出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6346.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6373.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
所以這個部分我們還是希望可以去了解看看能怎麼協助政策上已經不會剝奪他的權利如果說有一些個案或是案子或是部長充分了解與補救回來我才會不斷不斷的提如果是個案很少數我們也不需要在這裡提所以在這裡既然會拿來當成政治攻防那當然人數也是有一些啦院長因為時間的關係我們部長如果了解以後再跟院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6375.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6377.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
另外針對因應川普總統的關稅政策我們可能面臨的衝擊我們也要編列特別預算可是我們看到現在雖然時間是很短我們現在的這一筆4100億的特別預算裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6398.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6412.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
讓大家看到會覺得說他夾帶了跟關稅無關的部分有高達六成我們不知道我們是怎麼去定義這個部分可是這4100億如果是希望可以在緊急的情況之下去因應這個關稅帶來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6414.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6432.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
所有的產業的衝擊我們應該要好好的就這個部分需運用我們的預算可是我們看到的不是我先舉一個例子來說好了我們在裡面大概有國土韌性波普台電經濟資源高教人才波普健保關懷弱勢還有波普勞保 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6433.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6456.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那大概所佔的比例也不一可是經濟資源的部分就是我們這一次針對這個可能產業受到的衝擊大概只有23% 930億那其他的還有可能涵蓋其他的部分那就國土韌性的部分因為是最高的他編了1500億我想要在這裡請教院長國土韌性的1500億他主要 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6460.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6480.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
在我們的資料裡面主要有兩個項目一個針對國防部還有一個大概就是海巡署1500億裡面國防部大概佔了960億海巡署是540億我想請教在國防部的這個部分其中這960億裡面又有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6483.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6513.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
要強化國土安全韌性的部分它是整建各式庫儲設施就要400億為什麼我要特別提出來我想要請教院長這400億要做這個庫儲設施是什麼東西我們每年的預算都有庫儲設施喔強化韌性的1500億這當中矽目的這個項目到目前為止我們還在做最後的統統 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6514.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6528.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
的計算當中那其中比方說新建的巡防艦艇還有這一些這個海岸徵收提升立體徵收的這個工作這個未來對於席產地反傾銷以及違規轉運 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6532.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6541.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
主司都有強力的打擊作用這個不能說跟關稅毫無相關台電的一千億我再度為產業請命你剛剛提到的說反傾銷什麼這些可是你在裡面編列的是要買無人機然後我剛剛詢問的主要是庫儲設施為什麼要編400億 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6554.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6579.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
因為我們每一年在公開的我們在我們的正式的預算裡面其實每年都有庫儲設施的整建每年陸海空加起來平均大概就是兩二到二點三億一百一十一年的是一億九一百一十二年兩億三一百一十三年兩億一百一十四年是兩億三就是說他就是在兩億 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6580.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6587.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
出頭這個部分那你現在突然暴增到400億你大概要用三年嗎平均 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6598.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6621.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
因為因為時間到了這個部分我們希望還是可以從兩億變成四百億我們不知道他是要做什麼而且很重要的在特別預算裡面他是限制性招標這個部分我們希望應該要說明而且也讓大家說沒有沒有限制性招標 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6625.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6642.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
好 謝謝馬文金委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 部會首長的備詢 謝謝接下來登記26號武力華委員之質詢改為書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報在接下來我們請登記第27號 劉許廷委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6653.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6656.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
好 謝謝主席 卓院長有請麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6669.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6690.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
大部份人都非常關心美國的關稅戰還有後續的一些影響所以今天本席就用這樣子的一個題目希望跟行政院進行深切的政策對話我們都非常清楚跟美國的一場談判是免不了的那我們在談判的最簡單的概念裡面知己知彼才有辦法創造真正的談判雙贏如果不知彼此 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6691.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6701.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
不知道對手在幹嘛 也不知道自己在做什麼做了哪些準備 那恐怕會禍國殃民啊所以今天就用這個題目來跟卓院長來進行施政的總質詢我們先看一支影片欸 對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6709.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6709.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
余總 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6737.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6762.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
他這樣的說法,川普曾經說,說台灣偷走了晶片的製造業然後在關稅之後他羞辱全世界的國家,說大家都要kiss his ass大家跪著來求他談判,說大家都拜託他院長,我們是其中一個拜託他急著要談判的人嗎?我們是那個kiss his ass的國家嗎?我想我們都一樣,我們絕對不會承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6763.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6786.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
台灣偷走了任何國家的高科技產品我們是靠我們國家自己的產業高科技人才研發 努力生產製造沒錯嘛 這個院長你都講過那我們現在所以川普這樣子的言論算不算羞辱台灣他是對全世界講 我說他現在這次的這個關稅只有一套公式 一個計算 一個結果對大家都是同樣的做法 記住講 我們絕不接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6787.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6811.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我們絕不接受對不對這樣的指控這樣子的關稅絕不接受我們偷走高科技晶片的這個說法那我們現在是爭取最佳的時間用我們備妥的方案去跟美獨做談判這個是基於雙方互惠對等等一下我們會討論你在談判之前我們要了解對手所以我們先從美國開始談起院長知不知道什麼叫海湖莊園協議是請你說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6815.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6840.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
像之前的廣場協議一樣他想創造一個讓世界的匯率等等都在那個地方做成一個讓給世界各國施壓還不錯 講得出廣場協議剛好我們前行政院長陳聰寫了一篇文章寫得非常清楚海湖創權協議是川普身邊的經濟戰略顧問寫出來一套試圖創造重構全球貿易體制的這樣一個經濟戰略那看起來川普也正在努力的去實踐這樣一個經濟戰略 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6842.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6858.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你覺得海湖專業協裡面美國啊川普他希望達成哪些目標在這樣的架構之下他應該如果直接的講他應該要減少美國的貿易赤字貿易逆差減少貿易逆差還有勒減少貿易赤字貿易逆差然後造成排除這些非關稅貿易障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6859.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6877.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
等等讓美國的工業能夠再起來所以製造業回流嘛對不對好大概有回答到一些方向我們公布一下答案大概上來講川普對於全世界釋放的訊號關稅其實只是手段而已嘛他今天去提高關稅只是目標是要逼所有的國家跟他談判而已但他真實要的東西恐怕不見得是關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6878.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6904.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
他真實要的東西其實是要 你剛有講廣場協議嘛他真實要的是美元貶值嘛因為他希望重塑他製造業的競爭力他希望企業回到美國 製造業回流美國所以有企業赴美還有很重要一個剛剛沒有談到他美國現在正在面臨非常嚴重的國債危機每一年聯邦政府光是要付美債的利息基本上就把聯邦政府的支出吃掉了一大塊最後一塊是剛剛提到的這樣子的一個貿易逆差 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6905.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6934.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這個是川普要的東西這幾項院長應該心裡大概也有譜嘛那美國現在面對的壓力是什麼就我們現在跟他談判啊我們總要知道他的弱點是什麼他的壓力是什麼院長你知不知道美國現在川普他推行這一套經濟戰略他面對的阻力跟壓力是什麼就是他的這個債務非常的高國家的債務非常的高我債對不對還有咧當然剛剛提到的貿易逆差他認為世界各國對他是不公平的貿易還有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6935.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6940.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們都希望院長多講一點以你對美國你的對手他可能會有什麼弱點那他希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6940.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6968.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
把他這個製造產業能夠回到美國來就是他要的東西好沒關係因為時間有限我們就不這重點也不是考試是對談嘛川普政府面對壓力第一個他有任期限制嘛對不對他剩下第二任他能不能他會不會顛覆他的資訊那是另外一回事但是他的任期限制他的時間壓力是很大的對不對這個我沒有講錯吧院長他有任期壓力第二個他國內有沒有通膨的問題啊他現在下關稅的重手等等是不是反過來加劇他國內的通膨 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6969.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6998.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
第三他要求要重新整理這個世界的貿易產業鏈要求要回流你覺得他美國國內的企業不生氣嗎為什麼他在半導體前面對中國大陸課這麼兇的關稅後來突然間豁免了難道蘋果公司 Google等等的大企業不給他施壓嗎所以美國國內的企業會不會給他施壓其實也會嘛那最後國際的建制嘛他現在要預約WTO要跟全世界一起開戰全世界各地也都給他施壓所以我今天談這個的是 院長其實美國不是沒有壓力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6998.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7026.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我們的對手不是沒有弱點嗎這樣子的概念院長會不會反對還是院長同意這樣的說法每個國家都會面臨他不同國內國際上的壓力那他想主導那主導的過程當中他也必須付出一些跟其他國家交涉的過程的代價所以國內的壓力也會形同再增加起來所以川普也不是沒有弱點不是沒有壓力對不對好那我再往下問現在我們要講台美要談判對不對美國對台灣的依賴有哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7028.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7050.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我們的製造 高科技的製造業高科技製造 半導體產業嘛 對不對 還有嗎半導體產業 大部分基本上就是這一塊嘛時間有限啦 我也就不多考驗你了半導體產業嘛 對不對我們的整條不只是半導體其他的科技製造的關鍵供應的零組件嘛這個也是台灣的談判優勢嘛還有地緣政治的佈局啊 對不對人家總不會真的就放棄 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7051.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7080.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
這個台灣所謂的第一島鏈對不對這是你們常講的但我們今天重點是經濟齁川普對台灣其實是有依賴的那我剛剛談川普要什麼川普的壓力是什麼川普對台灣的依賴是什麼其實都可以都可以講出一些蛛絲馬跡對不對那我現在問的這第一個問題啊那台美關係的時候我們是不是要一邊倒啊我們有沒有必要對美國對川普言聽計從我們有沒有必要kiss his ass有必要嗎我們沒有必要言聽計從我們是站在國家最大的利益爭取國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7081.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7082.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
利益跟產業的國際競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7084.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7112.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以沒有一定要言聽計從對不對這我要提醒沒關係我們接著我們還要往下談這個問題但是我要提醒院長其實現在社會上普遍出現非常焦慮的氣氛因為從尤其是台積電移到美國去之後大家說有必要這樣子嗎為什麼我們就對他言聽計從了呢現在院長嘴巴裡講出來我們不必要言聽計從可是目前為止的所作所為都有一點言聽計從的感覺這我們待會再詳細來說明好對美國的基本概念我覺得院長還算是回答得出來這我覺得還是不錯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7113.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7139.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那我們要回到國內我們講知己知彼我們要了解國內的狀況我們在跟台美談判之前我們總要了解國內的產業可能遇到的衝擊人家的弱點我們要掌握我們的弱點人家衝擊的時候我們也要做提早的布局跟因應我請問院長你大概了解川普可能會開始實踐海湖莊園協議開始動關稅大刀逼我們談判的時間是什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7140.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7156.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
你們整個行政團隊最早掌握可能發生這個事跟我們的談判時間不是談判的時間是川普上台之後你們就掌握他可能會做這件事了嗎我們在11月就成立了台美經貿的專案小組就掌握他可能會有任何的變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7158.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7185.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
就掌握可能的任何的變動掌握他可能會變動但是沒有辦法掌握他沒有辦法掌握數字這個我不怪你們因為川普本來就是變來變去的一個人但是你們11月去年的11月就準備了是嗎大選之前對美國大選之前我們現在看在新聞媒體或是看政府的作為你都可以看到是川普公布了32%的關稅之後然後你經濟部開始連續的座談後面開了幾場會談了一些什麼事情能不能簡單的說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7185.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7202.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們談了十幾場十幾場對不對總統跟我分開分開嘛到各個縣市去坐談這個本席了解但我要問的是你如果是去年11月就已經組織好了相關的小組從去年11月到今年4月他發布之前也有你們談了幾場開了哪些會可以補充說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7206.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7224.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們都有談我們在這個對幾個我們推估的這個產業可能會他上來以後會有一些需求的產業我們都有做這個評估也跟每個業者做這個訪談都有座談也有我之前還跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7225.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7243.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那個工業總會啊工業總會底下它有一百多個這個各個的百公百業我們都分別來做的今天在這個質詢的現場你不一定馬上找得出數字但是我希望你會後要提供一下就是說你從去年11月你組織完之後你都做了一些什麼樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7243.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7259.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
因為大家現在看到的是四月他公布關稅之後然後才開始出現了大量的座談然後這些座談的內容是我聽一聽產業的意見你們有沒有什麼問題跟困境需要政府解決的我覺得這樣子的強度是不夠的院長我們在過年期間都談過 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7259.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7279.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
好 很好 大家期待的其實是在關稅這件事情公布有可能公布的時候 你就先了解企業可能的衝擊然後在公布之後 其實企業界 產業界期待的是政府帶著明確的方案嘛也就是這個 譽如大家的兵推跟預期有這樣的結果所以我們今天是帶著這樣的方案 然後再跟企業界來做會商 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7280.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7302.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
應該說我們要看到的是這樣的事但是以目前為止大家揭露的都是我們現在看到的比如說你到桃園到其他地方都是我們現在衝擊來了我們聽一聽大家的意見我覺得這恐怕就有失先機了像我本人我現在記得我跟ICT產業也談過跟中小企業也談過好幾次而且我們去到工商團體跟他們做當面的會談商總工總我們都去過 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7305.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7330.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這個你會後提供相關的資料因為馬上我們要討論接下來的我們會給你一份一個表我們在什麼時候跟誰談因為這個都試射後面我們這個表再送給委員參考這個是我們都試射後面要討論譬如說紓困的啊這個解決衝擊的預算要怎麼樣討論很重要的事情那我要再問院長部長也可以隨時支援這個台灣的產業危機真的是有關稅嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7332.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7352.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們剛剛前面談美國對不對談海湖狀元協議其實關稅其實比較像他的手段嘛我的目標是要逼談判嘛對不對那既然要逼談判美國真正要的恐怕不是關稅的收入而已嘛那美國真正要台灣真正會遇到衝擊的是哪些事情我們還可能必須進行一些必要的採購或是投資貿易 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7353.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7380.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
投資貿易採購是小政府支出多一點大家商量一下怎麼辦共體時間就是了可是投資貿易是一個還有嗎我們當然這其中一個他比較關心的命題他希望是要解決美國的生產空洞化其實台灣跟美國在高科技的產業關鍵科技產業其實我們都是互補的美國他比較注重在研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7381.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7397.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
但是我們強項是製造對不對他現在講說製造要回流剛剛院長講說要投資我們台灣很強的是在開發跟製造所以我們可以協助他他美國想要發展的適合在美國發展的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7398.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7419.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
因為美國其實科技的含量非常的高他們在未來的製造裡面他們著重兩個現象一個現象就是他要大量使用機器人第二個驅動機器人的生成式AI這兩個關鍵變數是美國現在最關注的我們現在要談的是台灣內部的問題剛剛院長有講到一個概念就是他希望我們擴大對美的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7425.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7448.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
擴大對美的投資 換言來講就是希望我們的產業到美國去設廠對不對這是其中一個其實就是設廠 所以對台灣來講它算不算產業外移的危機 潛在危機我們要求產業 第一個一定要保持台灣這裡的領先地位第二個 絕對不能產業空洞化一定要跟流台灣 用台灣plus的方式 台灣加一這一題先在這邊 我等一下會追問第二個 除了產業外移之外還有沒有別的危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7450.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7474.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
對我們的出口導向製造業會造成衝擊的勞工的問題我們產業升級我們產業必須要升級面對未來在未來的這個競爭的環境裡面趁著這一波然後讓我們的這個傳統產業讓我們過去在我剛講產業這一塊我後面再講嘛產業外營講對了這是一個我們會遇到的衝擊嘛第二個是什麼我直接公布答案因為時間啊台幣的升值啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7476.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7503.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
對不對剛剛院長一開始回答這個海湖專業協議他是不是第一個提到廣場協議廣場協議是什麼當初就要求日本要求德國對美元大幅的升值嘛是不是就立刻對於日本跟當初的德國的國內的製造業造成衝擊今天如果他想要複製當初的廣場協議我們台幣未來會不會有大幅升值的壓力雖然我們長期看台幣是呈現一個比較穩定的狀態 長期啦但是我們現在心裡有準備未來的匯率應該也是一個重大的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7504.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7516.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
因為這就是委員所說的將來匯率包括股匯市等等的調整都是一個必須去面臨的一個重大問題院長你知道川普曾經講過最誇張的版本一美元對多少台幣你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7519.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7521.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
股市分析師告訴委員的啦股市分析師唯恐天下不亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7534.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7558.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
當然這是川普講過了嘛 對不對但是我只是講當然不可能到1比13.3如果1比13.3我們台灣的產業就完蛋了對不對但是我想問的是我想問的是如川普想要讓美元貶值想要讓台幣升值的趨勢是確定的嘛他也會用盡一些手段去做這個事嘛那請問我們的政府針對匯率升值對產業的衝擊有沒有兵推比如說1比301比28 1比26有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7562.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7572.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我想央行長期在掌握台灣匯率的這個狀態底下他是有各方面的一個研判都有的只是現在我們沒有在告訴國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7573.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7591.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
最不好的狀況出現的時候是怎麼樣因為還不到那個時期那到目前為止這樣總諮詢開始有意義了嘛因為我本席今天就要提醒你嘛美國真的要 第一個要我們的產業外移嘛第二個他接下來打的就是貨幣戰嘛他會希望台幣大量升值那麼這兩件事情都會對於我們這種出口導向的製造業造成衝擊嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7592.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7609.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
舉一個例子來講這段時間大家在討論關稅衝擊天下雜誌做了一個報導海嘯第一排很不幸本席的選區桃園龜山跟蘆竹伺服器產業PCB產業他當然就第一時間受到了衝擊我有細看他的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7610.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7627.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
他講得很清楚他說我們到關稅第一時間到還好為什麼因為剛性需求嘛剛剛這個兩位回答的時候都有講彼此之間產業有互補美國對我們是有需求的所以關稅的衝擊相對來講沒有像其他傳統產業這麼大但是擔心未來的不確定性什麼叫不確定性呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7629.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7647.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
即便他們嘴巴上講關稅沒有衝擊沒有什麼事但是不也都佈局了到美國去設廠的準備嗎比如說我們的伺服器大廠比如說廣達比如說PCB大廠新興電子等等他們有沒有思考在美國開始設廠恐怕是有的吧我們的政府對於這些企業啊外移美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7648.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7662.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
有沒有掌握我們回到一個簡單一點的問題比如說以台積電來講台積電是大家比較熟的例子台積電去美國設廠對不對有多少家它的上下游供應鏈會跟著去的這個政府有沒有清楚的跟大家報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7663.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7688.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
報告委員這個部分我們都有做一些分析那台積電到美國去以台積電現在目前生產的量事實上沒有辦法誘使供應鏈移動到美國去你的答案是沒有是不是其他人都不會走不是我跟你講以目前是沒有辦法因為這麼少的量除非台積電把六個廠都蓋好以後供應鏈可能才會過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7689.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7707.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
他最終的目標不就是要求你會蓋好嗎所以那個時候不是現在嘛那個可能是要七八年以後的事情所以請問政府對於這樣子這台積電只是半導體產業鏈嘛我剛剛講PCB可能也要外流這個伺服器他可能也會有外流ICT的部分我跟委員報告他們本來就在美國也有廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7708.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7737.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
對啊 那麼現在因為現在這個情勢以後呢他們可能會調整調整在美國的那個地方他可能就美國的需求啊他可能會擴大就是這樣對啊 那他擴大的層面我們都擔心台積電的事情其實叫破窗嘛也就是說去了第一個之後大家就發現啊這個大事已定然後慢慢慢慢一步一步台灣的產業就被掏空掉這是普遍產業界的焦慮也是我們的焦慮我跟中小企業座談的時候他們講得很清楚啊他們說大的企業可以去設廠我中小企業走不了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7738.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7751.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以這衍生出來兩個問題第一個到底多少產業鏈會跟著外移對於我們的產值跟就業機會衝擊是什麼這我希望行政院要做好準備第二那些走不了的人他的訂單他本來習慣的產業會受到衝擊那個狀況我們要怎麼因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7754.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7781.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我覺得這個是除了百分之幾的關稅以外我們政府現在沒有在這部分多加做但這個是產業界最焦慮的事跟一些化學原料業者也做過相關的討論台積電過去了他們要不要過去剛剛部長說的量還沒有大的時候他們當然沒有去的這個必要量大的時候他們要考慮因為如果不去的話會那邊另外扶植一個跟他競爭的產業所以他們也會做考慮但不是現在就在發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7781.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7810.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
但是你現在就要先預作準備我們都有跟他們談過這樣類似的問題還有一樣我一樣比如談PCB也好或者是談伺服器產業就是我選區裡面的產業我剛剛為什麼要特別去提台幣匯率的問題它如果升到1比30 1比28我們有多少家產業要關門打烊這個政府有沒有掌握你們有沒有針對匯率上升因為川普逼你做這個事嘛你有沒有針對這樣做兵棋推演匯率上升的兵棋推演有沒有相關的數字可以跟人民做報告匯率的變化央行是固定時間都有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7812.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7822.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
對 央行會針對匯率的這個出入他有一套匯率但關鍵是你要延伸到產業衝擊嘛因為我們是出口導向經濟體啊 對不對那這一部分的產業衝擊的評估在哪裡呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7825.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7840.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我想這一次的關稅對產業的評估大概是影響的產業大概是5%那影響我們大概12.5萬的就業人口我們會說它的影響程度大概在3-14% |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7842.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7871.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
還沒有敲定但是我們是用32%關稅的這樣一個部長你剛好讓我順利銜接到下一個問題就是說你針對關稅已經做了清楚的涉算這個本席知道但我第三個要提醒你的我剛剛提醒兩個除了產業空洞化的冰推匯率上升的冰推之外你現在啊我們賴慶忠總統對外講我們要從零關稅的角度來跟美國談判然後你對內又講說我們針對被關稅衝擊的產業做了若干的紓困這兩件事情其實是有點矛盾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7872.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7883.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
院長你聽得懂我的意思嗎比如說你這本裡面都講說被課了32%的關稅等等的產業受到衝擊所以我要針對這些產業設計一些政策補助的機制讓它減緩衝擊可是我們的總統對外又講我們未來要跟他談零關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7888.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7913.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
零關稅造成的結果跟32%關稅造成的結果其實完全不同的兩個產業的類別嘛 對不對所以我們爭取好的談判結果希望造成衝擊降低啊所以我現在擔心的事情就是說賴總統對外是一種這樣子的一個說法可是你對內的配套措施包含我剛剛講的好像沒有對在一起啊我們第一時間就是把產業支持把它做出來讓產業安心再來備妥談判的方案那現在就準備隨時啟動談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7914.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7925.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我舉個例子啊 你在這本裡面提到 比如農業來講你提到的是 毛豆 鬼頭刀 蝴蝶籃 茶葉對不對 因為那是我們出口到美國的他客觀稅衝擊 所以我們要救他們可是如果賴清德總統談了零關稅請問對農業的衝擊是什麼是豬肉 是稻米嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7929.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7952.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以就變成你下資源的地方跟真的需要的人可能會不一樣這個是本席要嚴肅提醒的未來這當然是881變931後來會變成4100億這我們在這邊不多談但是在野各黨為什麼都強烈的要求所謂的衝擊評估報告不只是針對32%的關稅而是我剛剛提的國內也許是匯率上升的兵推產業外移的等等他都是川普帶來經濟衝擊的可能衝擊層面嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7954.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7972.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我希望接下來我們在審查這個特別條例或者是在審查相關預算的時候我們能夠看到更深更廣而且佈局更遠的衝擊評估這個行政院懂得出來嗎衝擊評估報告都有衝擊評估裡面數字都有就是從10到2525加N因為我不是講幾%關稅的衝擊是我剛剛講的川普真實要的台幣上升之後的衝擊匯率上升的衝擊這個產業外移的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7982.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8011.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這個等到談判到一定的差別程度的時候我們就會重新再來核算一次所以這個資料我希望在特別勞力審查的時候大家都要充分來討論你要廣大各方的想法讓談判進行到一定的這個程度的時候才有具體的數字再來我們馬上可能就要上門談判雖然這也算是本席的一點專業啦國際政治經濟學嘛談判策略的選擇啦大概就談判的學理來講大概有幾種做法就是你如果在乎實質目標跟你是不是在乎我跟談判對象的關係嘛大概分成四種 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8012.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8034.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
結果如果我又在乎談判的目標我們的國家利益又在乎跟對手的關係我要採取叫合作型策略又稱雙贏談判如果我不太在乎我跟我對手的關係跟他吵架也沒有關係就像現在草野吵架也沒關係叫做競爭型策略要分配式談判如果我們很在乎他的關係以至於我們可以犧牲自己的國家利益叫做包容型談判就是說我就讓步 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8035.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8048.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那最後一個是我既不在乎我的利益我也不在乎跟對方的關係那我就乾脆跟他別談了請問我們現在跟美國應該是採取哪樣的策略我主張我們應該採取合作又競爭的方式希望追求雙贏對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8051.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8075.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
追求雙贏 我剛剛講我要反應基層的質疑跟懷疑我們現在表面上你嘴巴上講我們要追求雙贏可是我們的每一個動作我們都在做包容型策略他要我們台積電投資我們就去了他要我們降關稅我們就馬上說零關稅我不曾看過這個賴清德領導的政府對美國提出具體的要求也不曾看過他明確的拒絕美國的不合理要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8076.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8105.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
現在失誤的狀況之下但沒關係因為這個在進行中如何達成所謂的合作型談判敢開口敢拒絕嘛必要的時候你必須強硬嘛這個才是談判啊你如果一昧的讓步那你就是包容型談判你就是為了關係你什麼都不要嘛對不對我現在不希望未來台美談判變成這樣那敢開口敢拒絕院長我們走到一個具體的例子嘛對不對我們的中華民國政府過去的歷史我們可曾經有對美強硬的時刻 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8106.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8122.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
你可不可以舉幾個例子我們對美最強硬的時候就是他跟我們斷交的時候民進黨執政任內有沒有對美強硬的時刻有啊我們在21世紀貿易上映的時候有很多過程我們也很堅持我們國內的這個國家的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8125.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8140.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
跟我們這個勞工的環境我們也有所堅持的不過到最後結論是談出了萊豬開放這樣不算強硬我舉個例子給你看啦這個對美強硬的例子有而且就在你曾經民進黨政府裡面他是彭少景以前的公民會的副主委啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8141.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8151.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
在他的任內他就操辦一個非常重要的事情就是高通的反壟斷的案件高通透過這種不合理的獨家採購等等的一些技術設計意圖壟斷市場這當然衝擊到我們國內產業所以我們當初公平會就從嚴處理罰他234億台幣的罰單 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8158.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8180.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
他當初開這張罰單的時候壓力很大你覺得AIT不施點壓嗎你覺得民進黨當初的這個內閣不給他一點壓力嗎但是他頂住這樣的壓力就堅持槓子投我非得罰他不可結果罰完之後發生什麼事情當然就是一樣要訴訟和解嘛對不對最後達成的協議是高通要投資台灣7億美金最後高通投資多少14億美金400多億台幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8182.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8203.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
所以你要講對美強硬不只是有潛力而且有成果而且還在你民進黨任內我們今天要對美談判然後大家要追求雙贏我們要敢開口要敢提要求可是院長如果你都舉不出幾個我們曾經對美強硬而且取得成果的一個例子的話那這樣難道沒有一點準備不足嗎院長你怎麼評價彭少傑 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8207.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8235.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
當初這個例子我們都依稀記得都記得對不對這我給他最高度的評價即便大家政黨不同因為人家捍衛國家利益然後他的強硬有沒有成果有成果我們回到我們剛剛討論的幾個問題對不對從最開始我們講說我們不能對川普對不對他羞辱我們不能什麼話都不說我們也談了美國對我們其實是有依賴的我們也談了國內產業的焦慮對不對所以其實我們有沒有對美強硬的底氣院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8237.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8258.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我們會堅持國家最大的利益這樣在這個談判桌要上桌之前我們想營造一個比較和緩的談判的環境所以不會像中國大陸跟美國現在兩個所以你們不會採取競爭型的策略我也就藉這樣子機會提醒不見得要這麼快很多人都講趕快談趕快談趕快談真的好嗎 院長不見得喔我們只希望我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8259.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8286.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
準備好了再談比較重要吧手臂的所有的國家當中而且談判的結果我們不要高於我們競爭國家我們時間越來越少了一分鐘的時間我們現在馬上要對美國談判啦我們會提哪些要求或者是我們會拒絕哪些不合理的要求院長提哪些要求啊對啊 人家要我們調整配合他我們也可以提要求啊對等關稅我們會希望他豁免我們的對等關稅啊豁免對等關稅 對不對那你會拒絕他什麼不合理條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8287.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8299.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
還是人家要你照單全收因為他寫出了對等關稅非關稅貿易障礙跟出國管制這個都是談判的內容非關稅貿易障礙對我們來講我們必須調整一些國內的消費市場的結構 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8302.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8327.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這本席在裡面具體提出要求我們要求我們的政府談判嚴守幾個原則嚴守產業外移你當然要盡量保護產業在台灣國內不要人家要什麼你都通通去啦台積電不能變成破口你不能讓大家跟著去第二要嚴守國內的就業機會我為什麼要守住台灣產業在國內因為我不能造成勞工的衝擊不能造成失業的危機第三我要求你嚴守匯率政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8327.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8349.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
因為我們是小型開放經濟體是出口導向製造業是我們的命脈我們匯率政策沒有嚴守美國現在是就在指控他說你搞不好會操控匯率對不對但是這條線我們不能放你不能因為他恐嚇你一下你連這條線都放掉萬一台幣大幅升值到時候造成出口產業的衝擊最後要求你嚴守食品安全農業的權益也是很重要我剛剛為什麼舉農業的例子因為農業最簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8350.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8363.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
他的受害範圍不一樣什麼飛機改食品這個萊豬的標示什麼的當然要嚴守這幾條線我是要求政府談判絕對不能放手的很多人都在講這個談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8365.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8390.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
很多人都講說我們只要質疑政府的談判策略現在就被扣以美論的大帽子但是我要用最後一點點時間提醒國際談判是雙層賽局你對外談判你對內要溝通內部的壓力跟強硬是你對外談判的籌碼所以今天本席作為在野黨的立法委員我一定盡言則我不知道這會不會是最後一次我跟卓院長的總質詢但是我非常確定面對像川普這樣的對手我堅持而且我堅決要求政府必須強硬以對 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8392.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8416.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
為什麼 因為我要避免這個瘋子對台灣軟土生絕我們要守住台灣的產業 要守住台灣的就業守住台灣的人才 守住台灣社會的安定巴西的通過經濟互惠法要求談判一定要對等 授權政府報復那就是人家朝野一致 強硬對外的一種具體的做法我希望這樣子的精神能夠被政府借盡院長最後一點點時間了 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8417.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8436.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們現在看到的是政府對內要求盲信相信政府就好了沒事通通都好對外一昧盲從趕快修正你還有時間我剛剛講了不一定急著談判但是絕對對內不能要求盲信對外不能要求盲從因為知己知彼啊談判才會雙贏啊萬一不知己不知彼啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8437.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8465.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
才會禍國殃民如果我們在這下談判沒有談好沒有守住中華民國的國家利益那才是真正的賣台行為院長這樣今天苦口婆心講了這麼多希望可以給我們的談判團隊爭取國家利益維持產業國際競爭力是我們談判的主手國家利益寸土不讓我們對內聽取產業的聲音今天國會殿堂上的每一句話都能在談判上發揮效果那是最好的談判的結果整個社會都在看希望院長好好加油謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8469.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8489.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
謝謝牛許廷委員精彩絕倫的質詢謝謝左院長經濟部的備詢謝謝抱歉我們一層二樓旁聽的有新北市南山高中的同學我們台灣未來的棟樑熱情歡迎另外我們有來自台北市松山高中的同學熱情歡迎我們掌聲歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8492.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8496.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
官員會經濟組織質詢現已詢答完畢我們休息十分鐘之後休息之後進行財政組織質詢我們現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9165.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9180.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
現在我們繼續開會進行財政組織諮詢首先請黃珊珊委員諮詢 鍾嘉斌委員請準備謝謝主席 我請院長麻煩再請主委員長備詢黃委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9190.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9214.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
院長早我想這幾天大家都非常關心的是美國的高關稅但國內的政局也非常的混亂所以我想在這邊問一下院長大罷免跟高關稅孰輕孰重跟你來說對行政院來講我們現在全心全力在處理的是對高關稅的談判過程所以在這邊院長可以這樣說嗎高關稅的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9220.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9236.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
比大罷免重要一萬倍這不是倍數的問題至少對你來說是重要的我現在要說的是高關稅比大罷免重要一萬倍因為很重要所以要講三次大罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9236.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9260.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
沒那麼重要高關稅比大罷免重要一萬倍這是我的立場所以也希望院長把這件事情也是我想全國人民都是這樣看的現在行政院也是焦頭爛額因為要面對美國這樣子對全球幾乎無一幸免的狀況所以看到你昨天到黨團得來說說明所以院長這一年了快要520了你上任一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9261.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9289.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
中間過程我想也是很混亂但是在野黨監督是天職我們不可能是一言堂所以溝通協調是執政者必要的做法未來的三年要所謂的正通人和還是一事無成永無寧日就在行政團隊的一念之間所以院長你昨天這樣的溝通我覺得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9290.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9317.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
但是希望能夠再多點汗水少點口水所以院長接下去非常多的東西都要立法院配合你這一年來你自己認為有多少民生法案是由你提出來而順利通過的我們現在正在整理520的事件你覺得你這一年的成績有哪些是你自己引以為傲可以拿出來說的如果我覺得我們可以跟國人有一些交代的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9318.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9343.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那我覺得我們從經濟發展委員會引申下來的各項重大決議報告到最後的這個六大產業生活是產業圈治理圈的這個是我們可以未來長期目前有通過立法院的法案有很多嗎我今天要說的是我們看到這一年來其實卓內閣提動的民生法案其實並不多大部分都是政治所以我今天要跟院長說的我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9344.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9370.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我們提的政治法案也不多民生放一邊政治放中間這不該是行政團隊的立場也就是說你的民生法案可能要再多一點現在接下來的我們看到你的4100億昨天我也講了院長有個回答一個問題沒有回答我4100億是從880億變成930億中間再加了所謂您昨天所說的好國內的任性好國內的其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9371.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9397.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我昨天問你是不是為了要把稅基剩餘用完啊並不是因為這樣算起來湊一湊就剛好是我們去年的稅基剩餘然後接下來我問了院長一件事如果這些預算都給你了稅基剩餘用完了萬一七月份我們跟美國談判不如預期整個關稅還有其他的必要的可能需要紓困的地方院長你是不是要舉債 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9398.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9424.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
三件 第一個我們本來就有一個因應經濟成長的特別條例那現在只是把產業值加進來 把那個包在一起現在包進來嘛所以有點似不像啊這是第一件 第二件現在談判的過程正在準備啟動當中我們希望 推列不知道將來會談成什麼樣我們希望談到一個最好的狀況我現在要說這4100億用完了萬一 第三個沒有談得很好我們又要再繼續紓困我們要繼續幫忙企業我們是不是沒有剩下什麼錢我們這個4100億是 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9425.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9445.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
其中有少部分是一年的有大部分是三年的我們希望三年當中能夠因應如果不足的部分我們也有年度的預算給因應再不足的話所以我要跟院長說你這裡面我昨天有講了嘛第一高教人才照顧弱勢老無整健他本來就是平常該做的事而不會是預算法83條國家重大變股的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9447.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9465.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
教育人才容我說明一下特別預算有特別預算的定義啦這個放進來實在是有點不倫不類教育部分我特別說明一點就是因為他可能牽扯到可能有一下我同意但是具體化具體化協助大家怎麼樣去因應這些我同意但是不應該把平常 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9467.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9489.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
內閣該做的事情拿來做特別條例特別預算來填補湊足那個所謂的稅金聲譽把它花光光不讓在野黨提議所謂的發現金不希望它變成是客戶去湊數好這是第一個所以我們希望今天我要跟院長談談民生法案這個法案4月2號監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9492.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9502.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
糾正了行政院糾正了應該是說不管是哪個部會啦 融資註定公司從頭到尾沒有做過相關的管理他有幾個東西 院長看過這個調查報告嗎糾正文 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9506.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9522.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我沒有看過這個講法公股銀行有六家公股銀行貸款了百億以上給這幾大家的所謂的融資租賃公司就是我們所說的影子銀行也是王世堅委員說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9523.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9551.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
數條三兄弟八家公股行庫四年增加了千億的融資他們的利率從1.13到2.76遠低於民間的借貸他們拿著低利的去放高利民法的利率是16%所以今天團員講得很清楚我們的公股銀行顯然管理不善第二個我們20年來沒有檢視所謂的融資租賃買賣的定型化契約讓他們用假買賣徵融資 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9553.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9576.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
來搪塞 來隱瞞他們實際上是高額利率的狀況這些東西都是監察院的報告 院長我現在只想問立法院已經 我有個版本 王世堅我也有個版本我們一直在等行政院的版本我剛剛一直問院長 院長你提過多少民生法案的行政院版本這個法案要不要提版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9577.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9606.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我們現在有四個階段循序漸進要把它納管我理解這個今晚會主委都講過了我現在只問院長監察院說他的例子很清楚處行政院評估訂定融資租賃專法你有階段金保法沒問題這個現在就要做因為修法但是我要的是行政院有沒有融資租賃專法的未來跟版本在金保法的這個概念底下請 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9607.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9621.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
所以院長我要主委講的我都知道了我現在問的是如果院長這是我剛剛講卓內閣的民生法案他應該是你未來執政的重要的方向如果監察院也說不是只有立法院說 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9623.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9645.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
金管會只能做他自己做的事金管會只能納管那些大型的或上市的他現在納管了12家納入金保法但是沒有辦法控制監察院所糾正的這些中小型的業者院長我只要你一句話你有沒有要推動融資租賃專法的想法將來是這個方向在進行是這個方向所以諸位也是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9647.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9675.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我已經很努力了他做了非常多的事情我想說其實我們剛剛就是公告了那個金寶法其實這是以法律位階來納管我想融資公司的問題在過去已經將近30年的討論確實他的複雜度確實不是一個專法我只希望在今年年底以前行政院有自己的立場自己的版本我們的版本你們可以拿去修正金管會他沒有辦法做主因為他沒有辦法去拉 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9676.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9702.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
經濟部啊他叫經濟部管什麼他自己管什麼院長這需要院長的才是啊我們先把他納管也就是經管會沒有辦法立法去管別的部會啦用金保法的概念來管理如果真的不行我們將來會經理部來研究所以院長今天我問的問題就是我希望行政院應該是協助經管會來統籌全中華民國應該怎麼管理因為有幾十萬家公司都在做融資的話他管不了好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9703.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9724.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我們會積極管理好 這是第一個這是我認為民生法案很重要的一件事很多的人民都碰到一樣的問題第二個法案我們在立法院也做過相關的討論而且這是去年的照片我們三黨全部都出席了有關女性的生理用品免稅案 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9725.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9733.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
雖然現在我們大概學校都已經提供了免費的生理用品可是這是一個性別貧權跟月經貧窮的國際性的議題院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9736.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9755.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
女性比男性一定會一生多付出生理用品的費用將近大概是十萬塊台幣這是不可避免這是天生的所以這個性別平權在全世界各個先進國家大部分都納入了他們所謂的免稅甚至紐西蘭是全國免 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9756.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9774.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
全國的學生由政府提供那我們只是希望現在暫時用一個生理用品免營業稅的案子在立法院已經討論很多次了但是財政部這邊因為稅損啊因為什麼我要講的是大宗物資玉米小麥大豆現在都免營業稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9775.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9801.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我只問院長的態度對性別平權你支持不支持行政院絕對支持性平這個議題但是就這個議題來看生理用品的免營業稅是不是能夠真正的直接回到女性同胞身上去你們的版本你們可以提出你們的版本院長這也是我希望今天你有個具體的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9802.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9821.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
這個生理用品不複雜我也想不出他有什麼政治衝突意思是說直接用免稅是不是可以真的回到助理同胞的身上去各種方案我都接受但是要有行政院的立場好嗎接下去就是院長在上一次部長也在這3月12號的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9823.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9850.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
院長說才化法復原不通過你要提新版本3月12號在這個場合我問您的時候你手上拿著說我手上就是新版本我就是行政院的版本到今天4月22號我看到院長說我們要提事先案院長你的新版本從來沒有見過光現在有時間寫事先理由沒有時間來跟立法院溝通你的新版本嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9851.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9870.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我們的方案原來是在草野協商現在也是一個可以協商的時候啊沒有辦法協商就直接表決所以那個復案一直沒有方案拿出來所以上次復議案的時候我說你拿新版本因為立法院很特別我們上次通過的財化法是國民黨版送出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9871.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9888.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我的民眾老闆現在還在委員會如果你們也提新版本大家還有機會再討論你們要不要提出來到現在你上次拿的新版本沒有見過光希望復印案回來重新有一個審視的機會我們就把版本拿出來所以現在你們再修法也不考慮就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9890.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9914.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
你們也不打算再提一個版本來跟立法院溝通了除非我們提一個修法但是現在我們要提一個修法你們寧可不提修法也要去釋憲然後釋憲到現在為止沒有任何的進展然後現在也沒有辦法做你的緊急處分那你到底要怎樣咧院長你到底要不要解決問題嘛我剛剛講了我們的版本還在委員會喔還有一些版本在委員會喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9915.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9941.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那已經通過了一個版本通過了一個版本還有一些版本你可以修啊你不是可以有不同的意見嗎院長你有時間寫釋憲理由沒有時間來跟立法院溝通修法我覺得很奇怪啦接下去比較嚴重的是這個問題接下去115年預算要編了你看看這個時間表我們去年4月19號到現在是整整財政委會八次的會議討論財化法到今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9944.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9967.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
告訴我你們沒版本然後說我們要去釋憲院長真的有時間就好好來跟我們討論第二個接下去我要擔心的是115年的預算就像我上次在這邊問你的編了沒怎麼編要不要依新法編還是財政部回答為給我的是說他們不知道怎麼編 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9968.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9989.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
委員確實是因為新法因為有自愛難行所以才提複議但是複議沒有通過以憲政的救濟他就可以提四憲因為事實上跟委員報告我們也提到說第一個分配公職本本沒有辦法具體的政府要不要依法行政要還是不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9991.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9999.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
這個法還沒有被推翻被釋憲之前要不要執行要還是不要所以你要不要按照司法執行是 我再說一次民眾黨的版本是有給時間的但是民進黨團沒有投給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10013.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10038.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
我再講一次民眾黨團盤本是有時間的你們沒有投給我們才會造成今天這樣的困境接下來就是我現在要關心的是如果地方政府沒辦法編怎麼辦主席總主席總主席長你要怎麼辦大家怎麼編還是等到你們事先完再來追加減原則上我們會照著新的來編 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10039.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10057.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
未招新的來編這是院長這就是依法行政好嗎接下去我們要講的是有可能財化法不確定各個地方政府的財稅都可能會有碰到很多衝擊要跟院長說美國說我們有很多關稅壁壘我們現在的關稅壁壘很多甚至包括地方政府的稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10058.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10084.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
第一個我們有一個三百萬以上的奢侈稅有可能被美國拿來做車輛的關稅壁壘第二個是我們地方還有一個娛樂稅娛樂稅裡面很有趣喔外國的電影要課比較高的娛樂稅本國電影不用這可能也是關稅壁壘所以院長關稅是現在重中之重你要盡量的讓我們地方跟中央的稅務不會不至於造成任何的困難可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10088.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10096.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
院長 關稅很重要 比大罷免重要一萬倍 拜託你了 謝謝好 謝謝黃珊珊委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 各部會首長的備詢再接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢 吳秉瑞委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10121.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10123.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
麻煩請卓院長金管會財政部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10146.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10172.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
總委員好院長好彭主委好莊部長好委員長今天您在進入議場之前您有接受媒體採訪提到了4100億的特別預算條例那麼我們看到這個特別預算條例當中呢其中包含了什麼包含了你要支持產業包含了國家的國土安全韌性還有照顧民生那另外還有後關稅時期的洗產地的問題違規走廊的問題還有國家中大問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10174.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10183.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
後面這個部分我再來談因為我之前在委員會問過很多經濟部了那請問你認為這當中你說到要支持產業這4100億哪些是支持產業4100億當中我們就產業支持跟安定就業編了930億但是另外還有比方說我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10195.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10220.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
易駐台電的一千億是產業界非常迫切需要的不要再調漲電價不要關稅電價雙重的衝擊所以這個也是產業界所需要的有在講說你拿一千億給台電不如一個人一萬塊發一發因為你說照顧產業電價漲了產業出口競爭力削弱但是我們發現金一萬塊給民眾民眾拿一萬塊電價漲了拿來付不就結了嗎你認為這樣的說法你覺得有道理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10221.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10233.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
如果台電的經營現在他的財政沒有辦法健全那未來電價審議委員會把他調漲的話或許是7月或許是10月我不知道如果調漲的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10234.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10254.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那麼循環造成的物價的波動帶給整個社會的壓力比拿一千一萬塊在口袋壓力還要大你的意思是說或許電價漲了我拿了一萬塊漲的電費沒有一萬塊那麼多但是因為電價漲了麵包漲什麼外賣都漲我額外支出的生活開銷遠超過這一萬是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10255.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10272.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
一定是的請行政院好好的就這一點跟民眾說明可以嗎我們有請主席總署來核算如果將電價如果調整多少%數會造成物價的波動怎麼回算到每個國人身上的壓力回算回來那另外關於洗產地 違規轉運還有一個問題我們看下一頁 今天的報紙就寫了中國鋼品跟中國啤酒傾銷經濟部已經判成是產業損害 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10281.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10287.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
請問一下接下來交給財政部在最慢的70天內要判斷有沒有傾銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10289.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10312.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們知道財政部之前對於中國啤酒違規來台灣進行一些不詞的宣傳已經有處置了對不對請部長能不能指示財政部不要七十天一個月內如果經濟部的損害確定反傾銷的部分一個月內做出來可以嗎是的我們會盡快的來做然後對於不管是啤酒也好鋼品也好會盡快按照調查完以後就送關稅審議委員會來盡快決定是不是要課徵臨時的反傾銷稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10316.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10345.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
院長知道問題的嚴重性了那麽責任財政部不要70天一個月內盡速完成可以嗎我們盡快把它完成我是問院長這個反傾銷的調查會盡快完成好 謝謝接下來我們看下一頁其實另外要請教的現在我們的在本月初啊精誠資訊它是一個資訊服務的龍頭很多的銀行、證交所、期交所都用它的接面接接我那時候問速發部說它出現了這個治安的漏洞我們有沒有受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10346.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10371.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那麼那個副總發部說沒有影響但是我要問的金管會主委現在這些單位都你管的你有沒有知道他們有沒有因此而把金城支付換掉有沒有我想我還沒有接到這樣一個通報不過我們就是金融機構對於資安的部分有它一套的那如果有銀行換掉了金城支付你覺得是不是就有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10372.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10400.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
沒有我想這個是屬於銀行自主部分只要他符合我們的這些的資安規定那你們要不要去關心一下如果張三銀行覺得說有問題理事說沒問題金管會要確實一下好不好當然我們會去關心他們在這個執行的狀況至於說他跟個別廠商之間的營業活動我們會從一個法規制度來管理還有不只金融機構所有的銀行金融機構都有一個財經資訊中心這是財政部出資社的 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10401.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10420.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
會不會受到波及如果萬一這個支付有破口銀行那邊沒有擋住那每個銀行都跟我們的財經資訊公司連線會不會有破口會不會受到連累我想我們隨時都會關注這個問題委員有提醒的話我們會著手立刻來了解好那我們來看一下現在來請教院長這個是最近很多的新聞除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10422.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10448.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
剛剛談到的資產管理中心之外虛擬幣商啊 虛擬資產有人呢 開薑母鴨不夠 還開了虛擬的幣店開了時間來做詐騙那也有呢 幣場這樣的交易所呢協助詐騙人洗錢院長 你有沒有聽過 你自己有沒有買過虛幣沒有 你有沒有聽過虛幣現在很容易受到詐騙跟洗錢的影響 是的要不要好好管理有 這個金管會已經有適到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10450.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10456.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
所以我正要問你的問題就是說好來我們看下一頁虛弊防詐主管機關是誰院長你覺得是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10461.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10486.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那我先跟院長講一下我們的法定貨幣持有人不記名有序號但是交易入境要到銀行去提取我們才有辦法追蹤債券有不記名跟記名的那不記名的他們都有序號但是不記名的無法追蹤記名的可追蹤證券有記名有序號可追蹤虛幣問題來了虛幣它有分記名跟不記名但是上鏈之後都可追蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10487.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10514.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
所以法幣在銀行裡面交易但是虛幣跟這些有價憑證一樣有價證券一樣是由證期局在管的主委是不是這樣子是的我想這部分其實剛才委員講是沒有說虛幣有它跟過去我們其他習慣的這些所謂的現金跟有價證券的這個幣流是不一樣的我想但是我們金管會在自從行政院指定我們對具有支付跟投資性質的屬性的虛擬資產為 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10515.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10543.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
主政的單位我們就積極的來處理這件事情包括我們的檢察人員前一陣子我們也跟檢察大會合作針對避留追蹤的部分避留其實在目前的數位科技只要上列就可以追蹤但是有一個最重要的是持有人好我們看到券商虛幣跟第三方支付都要KYC對不對包括我們券商管理規則34條35條之一要確定開戶的客戶身份我們的洗錢防守法第六條也是一樣包括第三方支付也是如此虛資產也是如此而且虛幣要確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10545.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10558.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
客戶的最終責任對不對是的好請問一下他們如何KYC我跟你講一下現在發生一個問題了那個莊部長今天的新聞數存戶遭冒用國營及堵漏什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10558.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10588.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我們自然人憑證有人假裝幫你頒貸款拿了你的自然人憑證開了個人頭賬戶那取得線上開戶驗證因為不用本人臨櫃所以有七個行庫已經喊卡了請問目前財政部有沒有了解一下是不是我們的公股銀行都已經做好這個防止冒用的一個動作了沒有錯第一個就是那個數位的開戶用自然人憑證辦的我們公股行戶都喊卡了也就是說這個因為太氾濫公股行戶都有做準備對不對人頭賬戶那民間銀行呢金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10589.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10609.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我想這部分因為其實兩個銀行系統他們對這個都保持高度的警戒我想這部分我們會請銀行局來趕快來處理這件事情看看如何做會比較謝謝主委長要跟您說明一下為什麼我們對人頭戶要給詐團使用這麼防止呢首先如果你是證交證券的要交割戶在銀行端開 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10610.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10632.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
所以你在銀行端開交客戶的時候本人就會被KYC如果我是銀行開戶當然是KYC現在連電資業者也要做本人的KYC但是有兩種單位為什麼他們做了KYC之後會出什麼事情會有一個財經資訊公司財經資訊公司會拿你的開戶資料來比對你在其他金融機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10632.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10647.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
譬如說手機號碼換了他說有問題喔有問題喔就會透過這個方式來阻卻但是目前第三方支付跟未來的虛幣交易所並沒有辦法連線到財經資訊中心請問莊部長你同不同意為了防詐讓這兩個機構也可以連線到財經資訊中心去確認KYC確認這是不是本人 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10657.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10680.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
KYC本來就很重要可以防止這種人頭賬戶形成詐騙的一個源頭所以我們看為了有效防止提供人頭賬戶給詐團那麼可以提供第三方支付跟虛幣服務業者透過財經資訊公司來查詢其他金融機構開戶所做的手機號碼來做查核莊部長你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10680.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10702.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
是 我想我們會跟央行 財經資訊公司央行主管我們來做一個討論 看要怎麼樣做對 是你們出了錢在央行管的啦 難怪楊總裁在看我那彭主委你覺得有沒有幫助我想只要有助於防詐阻詐 我們都會全力來處置院長你也支持啦 那請指示三個單位趕快來做好 下一頁我們看一下另外呢 我們有一個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10703.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10722.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
就是如果扣押的裁定能否凍結境外具實名制交易所的紮款我們要講的是虛幣我們講如果虛幣未來我們有一個虛擬資產服務法草案現在預告期了20條只要是境內的虛幣交易所只要發現異常可以暫停讓他不能轉出也停止交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10723.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10741.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
但是境外的虛幣交易所有分兩種一種是實名制的跟台灣一樣一種是非實名制的非實名制的我們沒有辦法實名制的如果我們及時發出扣押裁定目前可以掌握這些國外的虛幣交易所願意配合嗎彭主委你們有沒有虛調解像你們訂這20條的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10743.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10770.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這個當然是全世界我們因為這個虛擬資產的交易是無國界的差別當然在我們境內我們未來這個專法的時候境內一定會做得到啊境外實名制的呢那境外的部分我們正在想一個辦法從境內有一個管控措施來加強這一部分我想這個是一個全世界必須要努力的一個挑戰所以如果我們國內立法通過之後儘管會除了要求國內之外也會努力的去爭取國外實名制的 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10770.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10794.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
B交所,CB的交易所,能夠配合我們的司法查購,可以嗎?任何有助於我們對這個處理犯罪的,我們一定會來努力,因為這個已經跨境以外但是我覺得這是要透過國際合作來做很好,所以卓院長,這已經超出金管會跟財政部之外了啦這需要另外一個單位叫做法務部,我來說明一下現在司法機關能不能及時開出的扣押裁定,我們往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10795.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10805.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
其實阻斷詐騙的債圖金流我們是追錢為優先但是傳統上司法機關我們傳統上的財產犯罪我是搶奪我去偷竊 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10806.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10830.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
都會先抓什麼 先抓人 追賊啊 才能追張嘛抓到賊 才能以人來追張 是不是這樣傳統都這樣 抓到了犯人 警察抓到犯人了他身上敲一敲 喔 很多張款 那就查施主是誰是不是這樣的 院長但是在現在 我們虛擬貨幣的時代呢現在都是數位流通有時候我已經被詐騙了 但要確定兩點第一 我是犯罪被害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10831.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10855.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
第二這個財產是我的所得是我的財產是我的而且我是因為犯罪受害我才能去要求司法機關開出這個扣押裁定是不是這樣子您是學法的嘛好但是現在又出現一個問題了現在司法機關他確定這是犯罪所得這是詐騙但是遇到虛弊的時候他往往不發給裁定扣押因為他還沒有抓到犯罪的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10857.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10869.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
職務上司法界還沒有抓到犯罪的人他說我主張我被騙了我的錢在哪裡在那裡以前傳統的犯罪名畫珠寶就算是抓到了章沒有抓到犯罪的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10870.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10887.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
誰去主張那個珠寶銘畫是他的無法主張但是虛幣可以我可以主張這個虛幣是我的查後這是我的因為受犯罪受害損失的我就可以要求裁定扣押免得被轉出去院長可不可以指示法務部協助包括我們今晚會來幫忙打詐幫助這一點可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10889.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10917.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這是一個新的一個金融創新之後新的一個形態包括他的犯罪行為也是個形態那是不是這個當事人事格有沒有那個主體是不是出現我想要請法務部來研究一下請法務部競訴的未來司法機關以追前為優先確認詐款入境後競訴向境外的法院的合作具有實名制虛弊教授來合法扣押合定好不好我們最後一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10919.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10941.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
再來 主委 我這個問過你啦 警示帳號警察發現有人的帳號 就跟金融機構提出警示要有聯防系統嘛 啪啪啪啪但是有人積極 有人懶惰上次問過你 您說會要求一起都要努力做 是不是我們已經把這個相關單位請來做得非常非常嚴密的研究我昨天才跟銀行局 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10942.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10945.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
所以現在銀行都會積極配合了但是有個問題了我們金融資訊暨聯防通報的電子化平台有兩個部分一個是事前的徵信包括我們農業的農業會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10958.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10976.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
合作社 而不是那個 信用部都可以透過這個資料調閱處理這項年增但是呢 同時也是聯防通報那我想喔 除了銀行是不是所有的金融機構都有加入金融資訊暨聯防通報電子化平台主委 您的了解 有沒有都加入了但是大家因為技術上的不足有沒有都加入了你確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10978.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11006.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
要不要再確認一下我可以馬上跟我們銀行組長確認一下如果沒有是不是要求全部都要加入那對於所有有助於那個主債這個原則我很清楚我告訴你在哪裡現在呢如果沒有把全部金融機構都納入這個聯防平台詐騙集團會利用在國內上位加入平台的金融機構譬如說我們會注目的是什麼個人帳戶但是法人帳戶啊一般有的銀行他不受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11007.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11033.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
個人帳戶啦 都是法人帳戶結果詐團就利用這個切點把這些可能還沒有納入我們聯防平台的他就用50萬以下的方式把詐款多次運到國外去院長 如果知道有這個漏洞是不是要求金管會全部的金融機構都要納入我們的金融資訊及聯防通報電子化平台金管會應該要求所有的金融機構加入平台我們也要做整個整體的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11035.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11050.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
對打詐這個工作才能辦法有效的遏制好 最後我就這三個訴求提供第三方資物及虛擬資產服務業者透過財經資訊公司查詢其他金融機構開戶的手機號碼有要來防止人頭賬戶第二 協調司法機關競速箱境外巨蝕 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11067.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11071.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員質詢 審發會委員請準備主席韓院長 麻煩請行政院左院長麻煩再請左院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11105.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11123.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
現在因為美國的關稅問題所以我認為這個是美中貿易戰爭裡面的一個延伸然後現在是進入緊鑼密鼓的階段但是延伸到台灣這邊來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11125.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11152.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我覺得我們跟台美的關稅最重要的問題其實不是在關稅的本身我個人認為是在解決貿易順差是一個很大的課題但是這個貿易順差的這個數字美國的統計跟我們台灣的統計好像不太一樣一邊是749億一邊是600多億的美金那這個你知道這個中間這個數據的差距它的原因是什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11154.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11179.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
他算出來是1114億美方的數字是1114億我是意思說美方的統計我們對台灣對他的貿易順差是749去年但是台灣自己本身原來的統計是600多那中間將近落差了100多億那100多億這個數字上面美國的看法跟我們看法不一樣他要產生這個差距的原因是在哪裡多少有一些計算的項目的不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11181.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11207.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
還有一些可能是轉口的問題我覺得這裡面國際貿易的原理其實國際貿易原理它是追求平衡所以我們如果是對人家順差很大的國家他如果想辦法去解決貿易之間順差的問題上一次我有跟您提過加大對美國的採購然後包括天然氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11209.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11234.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
原油啊 還包括大宗物資 黃小玉然後再加上 可能再加上我們的軍事採購總是這個可以減少貿易順差的部分嘛上次提過 我想這個目前也台灣也目前也是正在這樣做那採購跟投資 以及談判關稅這個都是目前雙方在進行磋商的重要的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11235.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11244.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
對 那我覺得這個才是真正解決問題的重要核心那當然賴總統所提的說如果台灣的廠商可以的話去 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11245.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11265.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
自己算起來覺得可以的話希望能有去美國這個投資的機會那這個當然會接觸到這個金融帳上面的另外一個問題是說我們如果美國另外一個希望那是希望製造業能夠回到美國那我們如果台灣的廠商去美國投資在美國產生的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11267.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11277.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
製造業的聚落跟台灣這邊的廠商搭配這是一個不錯的看法將來在對美國的順差上面有可能可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11278.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11306.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
可以比較減少因為我們就不用輸出全部的成品我們辦成品或是零件然後在美國這邊的製造商在那邊投資在那邊製造在美國銷售所以那個差距會有一些到美國投資在美國設廠市場就是以美國那在台灣的設廠台灣的製造就是以全世界為市場這樣能不能取代關稅上的一些衝擊對然後我就是要現在要跟你談一個我認為蠻重要的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11308.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11334.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
就是因為現在美國對於中國不遵守國際貿易規則所以他現在對於中國的產品他加了很高的關稅另外一點他要嚴防各地幫中國的產品洗產地我了解美國的定義只要你的原料半成品有35%是從中國來的他就認為你這是中國的產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11338.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11362.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
那問題是台灣本身對於台灣製造的定義是這樣喔我無論原料從哪裡來我只要在台灣加值超過35%我就認為這是Made in Taiwan那你不覺得這中間有一種衝突嗎我舉一個例子如果當然這個例子是比較極端我的原料跟零件50%從中國來 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11364.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11392.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那在台灣製造加值50%然後這個產品出口到美國在美國的定義這是中國的產品但台灣本身的定義這個是made in Taiwan所以這正好就進入了美國說那你台灣就是在幫中國洗產地所以關於美國對於中國製造以及台灣對台灣製造非中國製造這中間的定義要如何調和 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11394.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11420.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
我覺得這是一個很大的課題這不知道你有什麼看法將來在談判過程當中我們都要提出這樣的數據來紀律力爭以國內的市場的行為跟美國的認知來做一個和平我希望能夠以我們現在國內的狀況來當作我們談判的起點那問題是因為美國這個35%中國的原料跟零件他是對全世界的標準不是只有對台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11422.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11435.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那你台灣在這個標準上面去跟他談說我的台灣的價值現在是35那假設你要往上抬美國要求你往上抬你說40 45這個都不符合美國現在對中國製產品的這個定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11439.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11449.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
說明一下委員確實這個部分要注意這個問題然後剛剛院長已經說在談判的時候會提出來這個現在在談判溝通的過程中已經談到這個了嗎另外還有一個就是因為進口的原產地在進口的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11457.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11459.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
進入個案的認定部長你這個講法在委員會都談過了但是我不能滿意的地方在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11487.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11507.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
你這個就是我就舉個例子我台灣的廠商假設我是一個遵守台灣法令的廠商我的價值在台灣的價值就超過50%啊所以依照我的定義完全依照法令來我就是沒得贏台灣啊那我假設我這個沒得贏台灣的產品我出口到美國去 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11508.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11528.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
那美國國家的定義對全世界是一樣的啊他認為你這個是中國的產品啊那這不就是我剛剛講的正好熱入說就確切的認定就是台灣在幫中國洗產地嗎那你說我這個預審我個案那個是要繳多少稅金的問題啊我現在是跟你講說這個定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11531.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11537.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
如果我們跟美國之間的地域是有這麼大的差距的話我們很容易落入這樣子的一個情境這樣一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11561.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11587.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
所以有可能我一個台灣的廠商我做一樣的東西我的原料來源一樣我出口的對象如果不是美國是Made in Taiwan我出口的對象如果是美國的話變成Made in China那請問我們如果建立台灣Made in TaiwanMIT的這樣子的在國際之間的我們要打品牌要讓人家知道我們這是高價值的產品啊我跟你說川普總統我一再講他就是要改變這個貿易規則嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11590.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11608.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
你一直跟我講說拿這個世界的貿易規則就是35%的價值就可以算那一國的產品你沒有辦法拿這個標準去要求美國啊所以我現在是問你說美國跟這個這樣子中間的落差跟台灣中間的這個落差如果不趕快調整的話我覺得台灣很危險耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11609.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11613.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
所以我們就是透過談判的機制希望把雙方不同的標準數據能夠把它做一個對齊或者是做一個如何的改進我剛剛的意思是說WTO的那個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11634.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11657.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
因為美國要對付中國中國不遵守WTO的規範在很多地方啦所以美國要改變那個貿易規則啦現在川普就是擺明了在改變這個貿易規則啊所以我們台灣要怎麼樣子處理這個是我覺得這是很重要的一環另外像越南這一次也是一個美國要 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11659.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11667.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
處理的一個幫中國洗產地的一個很大的一個標的目標國家就越南前兩天就公佈了他要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11668.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11691.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
整個供應鏈製造產品的供應鏈的履歷要清楚的呈現出來我覺得他山之石可以工作台灣要不要要求這些零件原料的履歷讓這個商品到底他是從哪一些國家來的多少成分如何組成的也精心處處這個你們有可以考慮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11692.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11711.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我們也要求提供產地證明等等這只有產地證明 它是產品的履歷所有的產品的履歷我們現在農產品有履歷嘛 對不對哪一個農民在哪一塊地上面種出來有履歷嘛它現在越南為了要避免美國對付它越南現在採取要求所有它的產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11712.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11726.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
都要有履歷包括哪一個零件假設他的零件是從台灣的哪一個廠商來的啊這個裡面搞不好他這個產品總共有幾十樣零件他每一樣零件從哪裡來從哪一個工廠製造出來他都要求喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11727.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11756.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
他要求這麼嚴喔 他很怕美國很高的關稅對付他我們對違規轉運的 我們設了幾道的關卡做得很不好 我也問過他啦六年來喔 在整個加工貿易在自由貿易區 總共境內關外的喔 總共才查了幾件從海關到經濟部 以前做得不夠嚴謹 現在我們一定強烈的要求否則我們沒有辦法在這波世界貿易重組當中 台灣站得住腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11757.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11783.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以你說能夠加強什麼呢到時候你就是拿出成績給我們看吧我相信台灣有很多產品我個人相信啦是你過去稽查上面沒有不夠嚴謹產生漏洞的喔應該是會有一些我們這次會更加強的而且有相關的經濟措施那也會提高在自貿港區裡面的一些扒環那再延伸的問題喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11785.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11814.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
就是說中國跟美國之間這樣子的狀況之下中國的經濟是非常的嚴峻那台灣過去銀行都有統計曝險有一套標準但是那個曝險的統計都是有統計到國有銀行包括公營的跟民營的但是是有一些漏洩統計的因為那個曝險的金額遠不止這樣舉個例子國有銀行在中國的紙行 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11815.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11835.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
沒有統計再來就是有一些影子銀行租賃公司或是做一些分期付款買賣等等所謂的曝險以前的定義比較狹窄中國的經濟日益嚴峻我們要確切的掌握詳細的數字之後才會有辦法擬定我們的政策對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11836.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11864.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
這部分請金管會主委說明一下如何加強其實我們對紙行是有掌控的資料都有只是說我們在過去在計算曝險的時候是從法律關係來計算我們已經開始從個實質的曝險的角度去調整我們的計算的方式我想這部分細節部分可以跟委員再做說明我想這個我們都有全盤的掌握那什麼時候可以提供比較完整的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11864.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11886.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
就是我們對外因為牽涉到法令的部分我們對外還是一樣比如公佈的這個曝險比例還是按照我們現有的法規的內容但是呢我們有針對實質的比如說它的實質的曝險我們用更換一套計算的公式再重新來審視這件事情我想會更精準的看到這些內容主委我想喔我要提這件事情是為了要預先 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11887.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11912.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
大家要掌握詳細的資料將來的政策擬定上才不會比較能夠比較接近我們需要達到的目的如果我們統計的數據跟實質的差距差很大的話那個統計意義就不大所以希望這一方面能夠加強你願意能夠加強的話那是很好了那我們就來努力但是我要提醒一點我認為香港是不是也要把它計算進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11914.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11940.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
因為這次美國對中國的貿易裡面他沒有把香港單獨作為一個關稅領域他就直接把它算到中國裡面來所以香港現在的國際地位在美國現在的政策上面它已經是中國的一個城市所以我們去計算普選的時候我們要知道你過去的計算方法只有中國不包括香港 香港你是把它獨立出來假設美國的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11941.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11968.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
是這樣他對關稅的部分是這樣他未來其他的部分也慢慢會跟進這個其實我以前的咨詢就已經談過了說因為香港最嚴重的地方是可能會被踢出這個貨幣換算的機制那現在一步一步來了切香腸一刀一刀再切最後會出現結論嘛所以對香港的曝險你如果沒有改弦更張還是把它跟中國分開計算的話我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11971.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11984.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這個在變動的速率上可能會跟不上這個跟委員說明一下其實我們港澳跟大陸地區都有分開都有完整的數據這沒有問題美國的政策把香港當作中國的一個城市 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11988.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12005.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
如果我們把香港也當作中國一個城市假設我們跟著美國的政策走的時候你那個對中國的曝險的資料數字就會天差地啊搞不好你銀行規定那個禁止的百分之百有沒有辦法能不能遵守這個都不清楚啊其實我們這個都有在按照那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12030.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12043.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
好,謝謝吳秉瑞委員的質詢,謝謝主委長、各部會首長的備詢,謝謝。抱怨會,我們現在在一場二樓旁聽來自全國親公總會說的好朋友,熱情歡迎,我們掌聲歡迎。好,再接下來我們請審發會委員請質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12061.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12064.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
主席我們請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選沈委員好院長午安這個我看今天早上的很多委員的質詢大家都關心這個我們行政院會上禮拜所通過的這個有關因應國際局勢強化經濟社會國土安全韌性的這個特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12091.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12109.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
還有昨天我們院長也拜會各個黨團來說明剛才的質詢當中也有很多國民黨的委員提到普發因為我們的科稅收入優於我們的預期所以要求普發現金一萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12111.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12125.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那這個全民普發一萬元那這個我想剛剛大概院長都回答過一些問題那我想就問一個最簡單的問題我們現在目前我們這個強化任性的特別條例跟特別預算編列了4100億 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12128.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12145.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
這4100億因應這個目前國際關稅局勢的這些相關的因應措施以及這個強化國土安全韌性這樣子的4100億的預算他跟這個普發一萬塊的現金他可以兼顧嗎他可以兩邊都做嗎這是我這邊我是編4100億同時我又全民普發一萬塊的現金 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12148.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12163.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們衡量國家目前的財政狀況以及實際上的需要我們希望現在這個階段面對國際貿易秩序的重整我們積沙成塔積少成多用國家的力量就放在這4100億的因應國際情勢強化韌性那應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12167.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12193.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
普發現金不是現在最好的一個方式我們沒有考慮200多歲簡單講就是沒有辦法你沒有辦法又發一萬塊然後又編列這個因應關稅的強化韌性的計算所以應該要集中力量去面對產業的需求就是要取捨啦簡單講就是要取捨你要嘛你發了一萬塊現金你就沒有錢來做這些這些相關的強化韌性的措施那你做了這個強化措施你就沒有那個錢來發這個一萬塊現金這是需要取捨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12196.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12220.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這就跟一個家庭一樣嘛我好像今年景氣比較好賺的錢比我預期的還要多那我們全家人大家把它分掉一人分多少分掉這是一種方式嘛這是你一種持家的方式另外一種持家的方式是說我看今年可能有一些狀況景氣不太好我們是不是先拿一些錢去還貸款然後拿一些錢我們來做避險來做我們這個風險的 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12222.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12234.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
所以在這個取捨裡面到底是要取捨哪一樣這個我想這個是當然一個是政府的政策第二就是你個人我想這是一個選擇那這個選擇我看剛才國民黨的委員他們也非常大家講完發一萬塊之後然後馬上就問說我各個產業各行各業台灣受到川普這個關稅的衝擊他有衝擊有多大我們政府有沒有因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12246.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12269.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
你又要發現金你又要政府來做這個這個是顯然是做不到所以我覺得這個部分更何況國民黨還提出這個特別條例要求這個普發現金要常態化以後只要稅收又逾期就要普發現金這個我個人認為說是值得國人深思的這也非常的不一樣因為這樣會把整個國家財政固定化僵化以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12270.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12297.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
所以他的變動靈活性會變得很小這部分大家現在你拿到一人一萬大家笑嗨嗨然後接下來通貨膨脹萬一通貨膨脹然後再來萬一這個衝擊太大你造成這些企業的衝擊造成失業率所以我覺得這個是政策取捨這政策取捨我希望是值得國人深思這第一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12298.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12311.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
第二問題接下來這個部分如果院長有一些是政策的部分請院長可以參佐那如果有一些部分我們這個金管會如果可以了解的話也請這個金管會防組委能夠作為補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12314.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12330.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
在全球化這個浪潮當然外資的投資可以當作是一個國家經濟的自由化跟競爭力的一種重要指標但是外資增加雖然可以增加我們國家的經濟發展但是也有可能造成國內產業的一些負面的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12333.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12336.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
尤其是近年來世界各國都紛紛近年來中國大陸的這些企業經常透過敵意併購的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12349.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12375.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
來併吞各國的企業造成很多亂象引起很多國家的忌憚這是全世界的狀況都引起很多國家的狀況這些國家他們很多都啟動國家安全的審查機制來針對中國的資金這種國家安全的審查程序作為外資要進入這個國家的安全法這個是目前全世界很多狀況的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12378.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12391.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那台灣這近年來尤其最近這個也發生很多甚至直接在股票市場在這個金融市場就直接有這個假外資真入資的方式甚至有可能要進行這個敵意併購的 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12392.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12409.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
的這個情勢違法登台的這種情勢那我想這個部分因為涉及要如何兼顧投資的自由化那又同時要保障國家安全的制度這部分在制度面上面我想希望跟院長跟主委這邊來做一些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12411.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12435.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
我們目前這個我知道我們現在目前這個國家的這個我們包括橋外資包括陸資這些來台灣投資在法令限制上面我們大概區分兩種啦我們有把它區分開來一種是一般性的投資一種是這個專門性的投資嘛對不對這兩種不一樣的法令規範那這兩種不一樣的法令限制裡面有關於一般性的投資的部分我們採雙軌制我們台灣目前是雙軌制的橋外資一軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12438.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12459.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
入資一軌啦分開兩個規範的情況不一樣那這個全世界沒有這個全世界大概只有台灣有全世界大概就把所有非國內的資金都一律用國家安全審查機制來審查那我們是沒有我們分開橋外資分開入資特別這是我們目前的這個雙回資的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12461.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12485.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
那當然我也肯定就過去這段時間啦事實上我們透過經濟部的投審會我們經管會事實上都有在把關啦都有在把關有關於這些外資巧外資他背後是不是這個假中資的這些問題齁我們都有在把關但是很多情況齁因為我們現在的制度的設計齁這個我們現在的這樣子的防堵的漏洞齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12487.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12509.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我們現在的法治規範是不是真的能夠防止漏洞是不是真的能夠防範紅色資本的入侵這部分有的曠日廢時有的等你做完了公司都已經被掏空了人家已經做完一陣子已經跑了那時候才做出來這個是目前法治上面所以這部分是不是請彭主委你這邊說明一下目前我們這邊的這些相關的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12511.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12535.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
是謝謝委員剛剛提到確實我們陳柱委員講我們對外資投入台灣的上市櫃公司那本來就有分兩個軌我們對中資或入資的部分有做更加強的管控比如說我們第一個前進來當然比如說是經濟部那邊我會投審會有那我們對所謂保管銀行的部分我們要嚴格要求要做好KYC |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12536.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12552.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
這個是金融的部分 彭卓是這樣子啦我現在要談的重點是我們現行的制度我們現在的審查機制你覺得足夠了嗎我們現在這樣審查機制足以授權我們行政機關做國家安全相關的審查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12553.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12574.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
當然我想說站在金管會它本質上是在因為它是上市會公司資本市場交易的主管機關這部分我們必須要配合其他更專業的單位來做這件事情好 院長這個事實上監察院在111年2月9號調查報告就直接說我們現在這個機制是完全不足的 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12575.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12604.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
我們現在目前的這些審查其實是不夠的應該要做制度上面的一些設定我們現在現行制度對我們大量持股的部分我們申報規範我們把非公開發行的跟公開發行的我們把它分開公司把它分開有關於公開發行的部分我們有一些事前的申報義務定期的申報義務這些內部的部分外部人的部分也有外部人要被動受理申報的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12605.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12628.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
這些機制我個人認為都不足我來參考外國的制度我們來看看外國我講我們現在雙軌制事實上外國沒有雙軌制他們只有一個單一的關注就是國家安全所以我們先排除美國跟中國這兩個特例因為他們兩個是資本市場的買方這部分我們不談我們看看歐盟 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12630.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12654.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
歐盟事實上在這個2017年5月他就通過一個股東的權力執行條例這些讓公司隨時可以要求辨識這個股東他的最終受益人跟他的執行受益人這些他就可以辨識而且他要求他的成員國都國內法化現在荷蘭已經都國內法化了這是歐盟的做法在英國的相關的系統包括英國包括澳洲包括新加坡包括香港 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12656.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12681.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
他們過去這樣子的英美法系的這些系統他們都是明文立法的他們明文立法就是這些公司還有這個監督的機構都應該要揭露實質的受益人跟最終的受益人這個都在英國、澳洲、新加坡這些都是這樣做那至少我們看臨近的日本跟我們最接近臨近的日本過去當然跟我們很類似但是他們事實上他們在今年日本在今年的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12685.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12706.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
日本在今年的4月23日就上個禮拜他們的法務大臣的一個諮詢單位叫做法治審議會他們裡面的公司法小組他們就已經這個會議他們就已經決定他們要開始創設實質股東確認的制度這個在日本上個禮拜也做這個確定他們開始立法要開始做了那我們台灣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12707.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12721.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我大概在講這些也是在這邊讓我們主委了解我會請院長能夠注意這些事情我們台灣要強化股東透明度的強化措施目前我們比較世界各國 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12723.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12742.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我們實在是不足啦目前的法制實在不足這個部分我們請金管會是不是能夠請院長折騰我們金管會這邊我們這個會同相關的主管機關包括經濟部啦投誠會這些等等相關這些我們針對這些強化股東透明度的這個法制上面來做研究好不好來做研議朝這個方向來進行可以嗎院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12743.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12759.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
揭露實質或是最終受益人這是基本的條件那如果過去監察院對行政院有所的指正那我請金管委、經濟部財政部相關單位我們參著監察院的意見我們做具體的改進這部分再麻煩院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12761.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12781.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
還有一點點時間我想院長也記得我在去年的總諮詢另外我10月的時候我也到委員會特別跟彭主委這邊來請教有關於亞洲資產管理中心的問題這些問題我現在大概做幾個追蹤跟確認第一個有關TESA的部分就是我們台灣個人的投資儲蓄的專戶TESA的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12788.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12807.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
那時候彭主委有講說預計今年上半年要上路那現在上半年已經過了現在已經四月底了剩兩個月上半年可以上路嗎這裡我跟委員報告我們分兩階段一個是沒有租稅優惠讓利的那一部分確實我們已經做完你已經跟財政部舉雙手投降了是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12808.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12823.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
6月會上線這沒問題就是我們答應的第一階段那至於說那個有關我們的租稅優惠我還持續跟莊部長這邊做做密切的協商針對各種方案來做討論但至少我們6月可以上路對第一階段已經確定可以上路再來這個這個有關我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12829.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12843.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
有關這個亞洲資產管理中心我們地方資產管理專區的部分我們現在設在我看我們4月1號的時候這個月初我們公布了這個金融業申請進駐的示範辦法對這個地方資產管理專區的示範業務作業原則我們公布這個原則之後然後有開放這個38項的示範業務那我要問現在目前申請進駐的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12854.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12882.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
現在現在加數是多少他的資產規模是多少現在的話我們總共在那四半半反而開放五種業態可以參加現在的話因為他有個條件要跟高雄市政府簽MOU現在15家有私人銀行會全部參加我想這部分15家對第一階段那接下來我們還開放了證券公司投信公司投顧公司還有保險公司所以他們陸續的會跟高雄市政府簽訂合約然後就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12883.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12908.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
可以逐步的進駐我想這個尤其最重要的15家有私人銀行的銀行我想他們很快的會開始進行我們預計在7月就可以陸續的在那邊開始作業跟營運這個部分我也很期待那最後一個部分我那時候在總質詢的時候特別提到日本他們有關於日本州的這樣子的做法我們彭主委那時候也有說我們有關台灣州的這個我們會演繹我們會做我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12911.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12919.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
有招標了嗎我們10月已經跟我們相關的主辦的單位都把細節大概都已經研擬好大概時間也確定地點也確定了時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12920.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12946.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
大概10月中旬有什麼樣的核心的活動那裡面內容非常多我再把那個細節再跟委員報告好啦那這個月我時間也要到了啦但這部分我覺得這個亞洲資產管理中心這個是我們這個拜總統跟卓院長宣示的重大政策我覺得這個只能成功不能失敗所以這些進度相關的進度我希望能夠金管會那邊能夠確實掌握也請卓院長這邊要全力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12948.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12951.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
監督進行該進行的協調謝謝委員謝謝審發會委員質詢謝謝主委院長、部會首長的背景,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
15581.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
15582.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
16020.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
16020.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
16788.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
16789.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
MING PAO CANADA MING PAO TORONTO |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
17865.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
17866.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
18040.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
18041.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
20681.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
20687.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
包委員會我們現在繼續開會處理臨時提案每位委員發言一分鐘首先我們請李彥秀委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
20694.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
20723.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
院长好 哥同仁大家午安本院委员李燕秀等13人有鉴于少子女化之后问题越来越严峻儿童医疗照护环境却没有获得重视跟有效的改善为充实儿童预防保健量能跟壮大儿少保护的防线提升资源的益助建议鼓励医疗院所投入疫苗接种等预防保健的业务自有其必要原件请 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
20724.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
20747.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
衛福部提議提升兒童常規疫苗接種的處置費並與不影響接種品質之輕微履約瑕疵對於合約院所以規勸為主契約罰為補另應建置疫苗冷鏈冷運配送至院所的機制維持良好疫苗品質是否有當敬請公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
20751.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
20777.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
谢谢李燕秀委员的发言本院委员李燕秀等13人提案作如下决议喊请行政院严处请问院会有无异议没有异议我们就通过我们临时提案已处理完毕下午2点30分继续进行财政组织咨询现在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
21625.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
21634.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
抱怨會現在我們繼續開會我們進行財政組最後一位委員的諮詢請徐宇珍委員請諮詢謝謝院長我們請卓榮泰卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
21655.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
21657.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
麻煩請卓院長備詢學員好院長好我想要請教院長因為針對美國川普的關稅戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
21678.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
21705.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
所以我們提出了4100億的這樣的一個特別條例不過我想針對這個部分其實世界各國不管是日本各國其實都把這樣的一個關稅戰視為國難而且都用很高度的危機意識去做這樣的因應所以也希望我們的賴政府能夠把這個關稅戰放在第一位因為這是我們所有的民眾都非常關注而且非常擔憂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
21706.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
21725.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
也希望不要再把那些大罷免、大搜索、大收押都一直在阻撓大家因為其實我想關稅戰比大罷免來說重要得多那其實根據中央銀行的這個114年的3月底就我國的外匯存體達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
21726.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
21744.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
五千七百八十億美元那楊總裁日前在立法院備詢的時候有提到說我們的外匯存底有五千七百八十億有八成是用來購買美債那因為央行每年其實提供不少銀魚腳褲所以院長可以看一下這個表格那我們是不是請楊總裁好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
21747.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
21768.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
我們央行一年繳庫大概是兩千億元左右那央行在一百一十二年度的利息收入有四千三百五十六億元其中很高的比例是來自於美債的一個利息那因為外傳美國可能會提出海湖莊園協議要求盟友將手上的美債能夠轉換成 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
21770.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
21792.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
長期債長年的甚至高達100年的這樣的一個臨時的債券而且不可轉讓以減輕美國36.7兆美元的債務這是根據4月27號的這個美國國債中的一個宣布目前美債已經它的來到了36.7兆美元那這個舉動形同就是美債倒債 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
21794.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
21818.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
將會讓我們央行的利息的收入會大幅的減少也會影響央行每年繳庫的金額也會嚴重的衝擊政府財政的收入所以如果美債會轉為臨時債券的話也將會引發全球的一個金融危機那所以央行預計今年要繳交的兩千億的這個國庫股息的這個紅利如果未來真的美債轉為臨時債券的話我國要怎麼樣因應請教楊總裁是 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
21825.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
21852.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
剛剛委員是說如果他這樣子做的話這是一個假設的問題我們一定要先想在前面不可以等到發生的時候才來做因應我想就是說因為我們每年都會跟美國的財政部我們都會跟他溝通我們溝通的我們據我們了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
21853.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
21864.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
美國財政部呢沒有這樣的一個議題所以不會未來有這種臨時再見也不會長年期的我們現在所據我們了解是他沒有這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
21865.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
21884.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
他沒有這樣 那如果剛有請教楊總裁假設發生了這樣的事情的話財務的缺口要如何彌補我們總是要想在前面我們總不能等發生了就像在川普宣布32%的關稅之前沒有人想到會宣布32%的關稅院長還認為只有10%我想是這樣子就是說目前目前這個關稅的議題就把它搞得 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
21893.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
21917.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
他的金融市場不只是他的金融市場全球的金融市場就秩序大亂那所以呢也就是說那如果說如果又是如果啦如果說他這個出來的話呢那我在想他一定會我相信他會再評估一下他的成本跟效益的分析啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
21919.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
21936.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我覺得你應該這次要去美國談判才對因為其實你都可以想到川普應該怎樣川普可能怎樣我剛剛也是跟委員在報告我就說我們跟美國財政部的溝通是很順暢的那據我們了解現在是沒有這個問題總裁請問一下如果你們模擬就是我們美債的利息0到4%對國庫收益的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
21948.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
21971.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
0到4%也就是說現在大概是3%、4%嘛那未來也有可能0%你有沒有引領過相關的衝擊我跟委員報告啦我們的外匯存底如果我們握有的這個債券到期的時候我們會有兩個想法第一個想法我們就是說是繼續另外一個想法就是說我們會轉轉到其他的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
21972.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
21988.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
我們現在有百分之八十的美債嘛那你有沒有想過未來你剛講的兩種想法另外一個要轉到哪裡去我想就很多的必備就不是只有美債當然所以目前你會講什麼歐債還是日幣還是歐元我們會做決定我們到時候我們會做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
21994.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
22007.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
對 那所以現在我們八成的美債可以說比例非常的高那當然我覺得我們應該一個避險的方式就是應該有多元的一個投資計畫我們本來就有多元的投資計畫是 那所以說針對這個部分是不是已經啟動了 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
22010.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
22022.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我剛剛也就已經講了嘛我們一開我們就到齊了所以總裁都已經準備好了就對了那當然當然就是說我們現在年收出來將來降到0%或者是說1% 2% 3% 4%你們都已經有衝擊的一個這樣的一個評估了嗎我想我們都會有因應的一個計畫希望針對這個部分因為其實這攸關我們國家非常重要的一個稅收嘛因為兩千億的這個這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
22039.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
22067.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
一個腳褲的一個紅利我覺得這個對我們的整個的財政的編輯會非常的重要所以麻煩我們總裁要好好的來去針對這個部分來應對那另外就是美國財政部也在最近有發布一個匯率的報告根據其判定的匯率操縱國的三大標準請兩位可以看一下就是我國對美的貿易順差高達739億美元所以已經來到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
22068.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
22082.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這個第一個它的標準匯率操縱國第二個就是我們經常這樣的順差佔GDP的比重達14.3%所以已經這個列入第二項的這樣子的一個匯率操縱國的一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
22083.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
22101.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
所以我們已經有兩項可能及有可能被辦入匯率操縱國或觀察名單那這個標籤對於台美經貿造成重大的不利的影響也會加劇川普32%高關稅的壓力所以請問院長行政院是不是已經掌握了美國的貿易報告草案的相關資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
22105.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
22117.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
這個匯率報告是不是針對這個吧我也跟委員報告所以院長你有掌握了嗎總裁經常會固定時間跟我們報告國際的情勢跟國內的匯率狀況對那針對這個部分這個美國的匯率報告的草案相關資訊這個平常都是中央銀行在跟美國財政部來談的 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
22129.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
22142.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
對 所以我說你跟院長報告所以我現在是請教院長院長知不知道最新的狀況先請這個總裁來說我到目前為止我們台灣就只有第一項跟第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
22143.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
22161.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
第三項沒有所以剛我講的就是這樣嗎就是兩項第三項當然是沒有我剛講的就是兩項我的意思是說你們是不是有已經做好了相關的因應然後已經展開跟美國溝通跟說明的作業有有有好那怎麼怎麼因應呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
22162.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
22181.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
就是沒有嘛 就是沒有三項嘛兩項啊 我一開始就說我們就是違反兩項嘛所以但是三項違反兩項就已經很嚴重了耶就在你在談判的過程中他們其實就是會針對這個高關稅的壓力給我們這樣子的一個很重要的一個指標了嘛我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
22182.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
22196.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
就是說高關稅的談判跟匯率的談判呢它是分開它現在美國希望我們要匯率要升台幣要升值嘛沒有沒有沒有這回事沒有這回事所以總裁您保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
22196.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
22214.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
他們不會希望台幣要升值沒有這回事包括現在我們所知道的他跟日本的談判他也沒有說他要所以總裁你可以保證如果如果如果說他們有希望我們台幣要升值的話那你是不是有明確的一個匯率的穩定策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
22216.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
22232.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
這個跟委員報告在跟美方的談判一個很重要的關鍵就是降低互相貿易的逆差就是你所謂的第一項因為這一項我們也在極力地用採購用投資用其他的方式也包括排除一些貿易非關稅的貿易障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
22234.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
22255.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
如果我們能夠把這個關稅貿易的逆差能夠降低的話我們相信各種壓力是減少的同時總裁已經講到了未來匯率可能會有一些波動但現在沒有發生任何的狀況也就是說美方沒有要求台幣要升值 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
22258.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
22273.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
如果假設有一天他們要求台幣升值的話你們也已經有了穩定的這個匯率的一個策略嗎我想新台幣的匯率一直以來都是非常穩定的在所有的主要的幣別裡面新台幣的匯率都很穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
22273.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
22295.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那針對這個部分也希望總裁這邊能夠好好的來去因應未來可能發生的一個匯率戰的狀況那另外就是針對我們4100億的特別預算當中目前看起來只有930億會用於產業支持跟內需擴張是不是夠足以因應產業的這個需求幫助他們渡過難關 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
22297.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
22323.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
930億當然是對直接產業支持剛剛委員也提到其他國家也有相關的對產業支持因應這次美國關稅我們兩個部分第一個我們這個特別條例不單只針對美國關稅而是因應整個國際情勢再來其他國家也對能源做了相當的補修補貼的狀況包括日本他對汽油就補貼了每公升10塊錢的日元所以我們也對能源做補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
22324.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
22342.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
其他他們對電對石油也做了補貼我相信我們這一千億的對台電的挹注也是對產業直接的幫忙其實我們這次叫特別條例所以主要是針對美國關稅的部分所以我們現在看到是930億那您講的4100億的特別預算全數用在 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
22347.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
22369.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
稅計剩餘不舉債您有提到嗎是的好 那請您看一下我們在114年度的預算書所示我國的112年度的稅計剩餘的淨餘數只有158億3900萬元113年度中央可以分配的金額就是有關我們超徵的這5283億中央可以分配的是3549億所以兩者相加是3707億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
22375.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
22401.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
離4100億還差了將近400億元請問院長這個差額要如何不舉債詳細的計算方式其實今年我們扣掉地方的我們的稅基剩餘中央只有37533753我們還要還債還要做其他的我們可以用的只有1641所以你的4100億要如何不舉債還有1641我們是累計以前各年度以及今年我們還有其他的請主席講說明我們合計才是夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
22402.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
22421.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
委員我跟您報告一下因為我們113年本來要動資那個累積剩餘那個部分有846然後我們還有追加預算1000億的一個那個台電的部分還有當年度114年500億的一個剩餘然後這個本是還要加上我們113年現在所以這個4100億就是確定可以不舉債是嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
22425.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
22446.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
完全可以用累計設計那我想再請教一下院長就是依照預算法就是我們的這個這次的特別預算只能有國家經濟重大變故就是符合這項規定的就表格上的第三項那其餘六項的預算其實都可以在年度的預算之邊列之印那我手上這本是我們114年度的總預算籌編的一個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
22450.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
22477.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那在去年的4月29號我們就已經把114年度的籌編預算的原則已經訂定出來那今年度為什麼到現在還沒有115年度的籌編預算的原則我們目前正在加緊腳步在做什麼時候會出來因為去年的此時已經有啦那現在在籌編115年度的預算應該是要有一個籌編的原則不是嗎是是是已經在加緊腳步在做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
22479.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
22502.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
因為其實我們看到的這幾項很多其實都可以放在115年度的預算編列其實不用再特別預算所以如果特別預算這樣一直被服編亂編的話其實是要規避我們的監督還是說要把它流用到其他的項目所以我覺得這個部分行政院這樣子開後門這個暗地成倉的做法我覺得非常的不適合 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
22502.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
22528.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
既然覺得有需要的比如說像不管撥補健保高教人才的培訓啊社會關懷撥補勞保你就可以編載一百一十五年度的預算就可以而真正我們看到因應高關稅的就是產業支持跟擴大內需的九百三十億我們還是希望特別預算不要用這樣的一個方式關稅之後關稅調整之後我們不希望增加民眾的負擔因為時間有限我最後還有一個問題想請教一下院長你有沒有在對統一發票 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
22533.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
22550.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
我們可以看一下因為我們現在財政部有一個這樣子的圖在他的財政部的官網上面說我們因為3.18.5億所以剝奪了民眾的一個小確幸影響了民眾對獎的便利可是實際上在我們的相關規定裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
22558.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
22572.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
加值型及非加值型營業稅法第50%條規定法定的支出可以排除統刪所以根本不會影響到獎金所以請內政部不要再用這種方式造謠 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
22589.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
22603.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
謝謝徐益臻委員的質詢謝謝左院長各部會所長的備詢謝謝報言會我們財政組織質詢已經詢答完畢我們現在休息五分鐘休息之後進行教育及文化組織質詢現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
22901.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
22920.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
報議會現在我們繼續開會進行教育及文化組織諮詢首先我們請李坤澤委員諮詢林思明委員請準備謝謝主席請一下卓榮泰院長麻煩請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
22928.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
22945.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
院長好我們在這裡掌聲祝福李昆哲委員生日好 生日快樂雖然我沒有再過生日 但是也謝謝兩位院長不好意思 卓院長提醒我 應該是我主動 對不起合作無間請執行 對不起卓院長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
22947.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
22966.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
勞保是國家最重要的社會保險今年的二月底全國已經有超過1045萬人投勞保勞保對勞工是最重要最基本的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
22966.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
22975.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
那2025年勞保的財務精算報告也提出說因為政府連續6年的撥補總共撥補的金額是3870億所以讓這個勞保的財務出現負值的這樣一個狀況要到2031年才會出現那政府的撥補從2020年開始從200億2021年220億那2022年 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
22996.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
23001.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
300億持續的撥補到2024、2025都是撥補1200億也謝謝卓院長在支持勞工的基本保障也出了相當大的心力 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
23012.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
23030.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那現在我們的這個勞保的財務狀況勞保的財務報告他也明確的指出勞保的撥補必須要持續而且要加大力道來撥補因為他會讓民眾對於勞保更具有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
23031.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
23060.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
第二也減少勞工朋友退休的時候要一次領的這種狀況而且對於勞保的財務安全以及國家要落實這樣的一個責任是幫助非常大我要請教院長我們對於勞保的這樣一個撥補當然現在我們受到有兩個狀況我們必須要去面對就是再也非理性的刪除預算我們的預算被刪除了兩千億 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
23060.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
23084.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
被凍結了一千三百億以上而且財政收支發分法也要撥出去三千七百五十三億當然啦 我們這一次的勞保撥補並沒有在刪除預算之列但是這種非理性的刪除預算會讓我們擔憂第二個就是財化法三千七百五十三億出去之後各部會能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
23085.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
23104.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
他們的相關的這種預算的能量至少都要減少三成以上28%到37%這對於撥補會不會有影響我要請教院長有兩個問題第一個會不會持續撥補第二個如果有撥補的話院長的初步的具體想法是什麼來請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
23106.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
23128.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
好 謝謝委員連續六年對勞保的撥補再加上疫後特別預算的300億一共是3870億那麼勞保是政府舉辦的社會保險政府負最終的責任而且是穩定社會跟穩定勞保財務的必要措施所以我們一樣會在未來的年度裡面是需要來進行撥補那這一次我們提出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
23130.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
23155.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
因應國際情勢的這個強化安全任性的特別條例其中也對勞保的撥補有排列了100億元我相信朝野各黨團對這個100億元也會跟其他的這個整個特別條例的預算一樣會來同意的支持因為這個也是穩定現在國內勞工朋友國內穩定勞工勞保的支出勞保的財務健全我認為這個是現在我們遇到的我們會繼續的撥補我更具體來請教院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
23158.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
23178.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
就是說2024、2025我們編了1200億那現在我們知道這樣的一個預算被凍結被刪除或是財化法新版的通過之後對中央政府的這樣的一個預算的能量降低了大約三成左右那如果是1200億的話會不會減少到800億元以下的這樣一個撥款的補助會不會呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
23185.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
23201.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
這個是有可能的因為整個財政收支發放法將中央拿出了三千多億之後我們的財政能力當然是降低的所以我們現在在尋求能不能用更合理的方式在憲政的基礎底下恢復或是維持中央的財政能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
23202.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
23228.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
必須持續的撥補而且這是國家最終致富責任這是我們對勞工最基本的一個承諾謝謝院長全力的支持第二個是有關於謝謝院長我們在凱米颱風跟山陀爾颱風造成高雄南部地區嚴重的這樣的一個衝擊當然院長也到典寶溪也到廷政國小也到寶業理事宏池多次的勘栽而且提供了46億 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
23231.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
23257.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
讓高雄市能夠去改善相關的排水相關的雨水地下道的系統功能的提升或者是相關災後重建的這些防水水利的工程謝謝院長在第一時間讓高雄的防災的防汛的能量能夠韌性的加強那現在要請教院長就是說我們在過去每年的水閘門的補助大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
23257.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
23269.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
是預估大概都一千戶至一千五百戶左右但是因為去年的風災造成民眾對於防災意識的提升也對於這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
23272.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
23291.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
極端氣候瞬間暴雨的這種衝擊也擔憂所以今年從往年的一千戶一千五百戶的這樣一個預估今年已經有申請的已經超過四千三百九十五戶所以原本的預算大概要一億現在暴升到大概要三億 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
23292.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
23303.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
當然院長也非常的關心相關的不管是經濟部或內政部都有做初步的討論我們也請院長來關心來了解相關的進度跟狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
23304.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
23323.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
好的對於歷次水災受災的各個縣市的國人同胞我們都感到非常的不捨那也謝謝崑澤委員長期以來對高雄的受災的民眾持續的關懷尤其針對這個水閘門的補助一直強而有力的要求行政院跟各部會來做相關的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
23323.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
23342.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
那現在這個經費算起來有3億左右3億多一點點那各部位現在還在核算還在進行它相關這個法定的程序當中我們認為應該再經過一段時間大家再做合理的溝通繼續努力讓它能夠實現謝謝院長先請院長回座位因為接下來我要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
23344.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
23357.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
鄭部長還有李部長相關比較具體的政策的細節請院長回座麻煩請教育部長備詢謝謝委員還有請教育部還有文化部麻煩請文化部長備詢請卓院長返回老師慢慢走沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
23369.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
23389.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
曾應耀部長是我練中山大學時候的社科院的院長也是我們的校長在這邊我還是要說一句老師好曾部長我先請教有關你科工館柏中你也是來自高雄所以你對科工館有深刻的感情跟印象因為啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
23390.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
23413.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
我特別要謝謝教育部還有行政院謝謝卓院長我們在今年把科工館相關的改建納入教育部的三大新興計畫之一那謝謝行政院認為他們支持這個計畫主要是認為這個計畫能夠提升南部地區科普力量的一個能量的提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
23413.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
23437.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
第二也有助於橫貧南北區域的一個平衡但是這個總經費是高達30億跟部長也多所討論當然我們知道現在國安會他有不同的意見他認為這個也包含衛福部教育部內政部高雄市政府有很多的議題必須提供更具體的這些補充的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
23438.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
23457.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
而且這些在今年來看要納入工建計畫的這個時程也沒有辦法了那高雄的鄉親啊南部地區的民眾都非常關心科工館軟硬體改善的這樣的一個進度還有整體綠美化的一個提升因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
23459.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
23475.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
部長也非常清楚他的裡面都是水泥地啦那當然在客工館周遭最近都已經變化非常的大我們這個欄管的部分鐵路地下化綠岩道也做好了然後民族 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
23476.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
23498.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
民主路橋機車道也拆除另外一邊的大順路橋也都拆除了而且在大順路的輕軌現在也已經通車那整體他的環境整個提升對於未來我們的學童我們的市民到科工館不管是科普教育或是相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
23498.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
23527.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
一個熱靈的一個大家能夠老老少少到那邊休閒活動學習成長一個重要的空間那現在如果沒有納入這個公建的計畫裡面我認為部長應該提出更具體的說明當然國安會也希望我們的部的預算還有科工館的這種基金能夠來支付以及相關高雄市政府的自籌比例也必須要提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
23529.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
23554.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這個計畫請部長來簡單說明一下謝謝委員關心 確實科工館它是一個大高雄地區一個非常重要的一個科普的場域然後在人才培育或者在地區上的一些許多的提供樂齡的 許多的這些遊戲 休憩的一個空間它確實有非常大的一個效益那邊也因為財化法的一個關係啊所以我們在內部現在因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
23555.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
23569.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
國化會既然他希望能夠地方有一個承擔更大的一個責任在整體的一個規劃裡面也跟我們報告我們內部已經有討論請這個事實上當時的規劃就是教育部先給的一個規劃會但是我們現在希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
23570.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
23599.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
逐步來把這樣一個改善有急迫性的、必要性的、利息性的一些因為科工館確實也29年了所以它裡邊的許多的長設的場館確實是比較老舊包含我們現在在談的AI智慧的城市這些的一些長設的展覽這個展區我們都希望從空間上做許多的改造包含許多的策展、布展上能夠真正的帶動一些新興科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
23600.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
23614.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
能夠讓這個科工館能夠扮演更好的一些社會教育在人才培育包括許多科普的一些這樣的一個學習場域所以我們目前大概也跟這個科工館的這個李館長提 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
23617.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
23636.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
我們希望在這樣一個重點事實上這兩天我們也跟館長有非常密切的一個討論那初步裡邊我們大概有一個四個重點計畫就是科工館的南館的一個活化計畫委員剛才也特別提到的別館的基礎建設因為許多的邊界 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
23637.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
23659.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
變電站許多的一些管路都老舊那這些怎麼樣去重新把它做一個更安全的一個的一個更新然後智慧城市的一個長色展示廳以及別館公共空間的許多的東西跟這個優化這些市民朋友來參觀的許多的這些動線我想我們都我事實上在 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
23660.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
23686.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
這一個今年也特別去看了一個整個科工館的一些裡面的償還現在的現況確實跟30年前來比他確實已經有許多不符時宜包含委外的那個倡議我都希望他們重新打掉然後真正用一個更有開創性然後更有這個符合現代感的這樣的一個科工館能夠來重新來服務我們社會大眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
23688.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
23701.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
謝謝謝謝部長因為我們現在知道科工館他現在交通越來越便利鐵路地下化之後高鐵的車站就在旁邊嘛高雄的火車站就在旁邊然後民族路 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
23703.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
23724.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
黃線的捷運現在也在啟動也在動工大順路的輕軌也已經通車然後南館的鐵路地下化也已經順利完工相關的綠園道也做好那邊還有一個通勤車站民足站交通越來越便利所以現在假日很多的民眾市民到客工館之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
23724.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
23739.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
他們很希望到科工館讓孩子來接受相關的科普的教育而且對於相關的這個休閒空間他們有很大的一個期待改善的這樣的一個進展所以原本這個計畫是30億 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
23741.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
23763.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
當然我們針對相關各部門的一個初步的協調現在是新版的計畫大概是22億左右那相關的這個時程我們還是要逐一的去落實我認為他是可以分期來做完成剛才部長也初步的說明相關的時程以及改進的這個工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
23764.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
23789.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
我們對於相關的這些他當然還包含高雄市政府所期待的副用館的改建以及相關的設施整個全面的一個提升我認為這個是可以分期來做讓整個工程可以順利的進行請這個部長全力的督促我們現在跟委員報告我們確實是朝那個方向來努力那當然有許多跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
23790.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
23813.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
在地地方政府的地方建設怎麼樣去橋接有的那一些所謂的這個我們再來進行相關的協調我們也請他們就好謝謝鄭部長那最後時間我請教一下李部長高雄火車站舊火車站是1941年就完工啟用那當然經過鐵路地下化工程他先移到旁邊現在又移回到火車站的一個正門 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
23814.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
23842.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
但是它相關的這個修復的工程經費非常的龐大現在所有工程都做好了就只有這個舊火車站修復的工程初步的預算大概是要一億六千萬左右當然我們是希望文部大概按照過去大概能夠補助九千萬至六千萬那其實大概過去都補助四成左右那我們這個部分請部長簡單說明一下謝謝委員那個高雄的 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
23842.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
23844.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
好 謝謝壽星李昆哲委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長跟各部會首長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
23873.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
23877.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
接下來我們請林思明委員質詢葛如君委員請準備好謝謝韓院長有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
23899.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
23915.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
院長好院長我想我今天特別就西竹縣的幾個教育議題來救教院長首先我對西竹縣的高中社校經費來請教院長他的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
23916.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
23930.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
院長我們目前新竹縣市的國立高中我們這個在新竹市有新竹中學有竹科附屬中學有新竹高商有新竹女中還有新竹高工 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
23931.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
23948.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
那麼在我們新竹縣僅有兩所國立高中一個就是竹北高中竹北高中也在七月就是要跟陽明交大來合併就合併屬於陽明交大附中那麼另外就是竹東高中 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
23949.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
23969.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
那麼新竹縣隨著科技人口大量的移居我們的教育量體已經大大的不足那麼在110年的時候本席向時任行政院的蘇貞昌院長我們爭取國中小的建設經費總共是24億 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
23973.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
23987.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
當時蘇院長也很大方的核定了七成就大概17億來讓新竹縣新建國中小當時我們也利用這個經費蓋了四所的國中小、一所的縣立高中 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
23991.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
24007.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
那麼而116年因為我們知道農年的學子將在116年就就讀高中所以統計我們需求將達到高峰新竹縣市大概有這個一萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
24010.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
24021.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
8085位學子要去就讀我們的高中那麼依據教育部國教署在112年11月提出的大新竹地區116年度高中學生人數這一個統計啊那麼教116年教112年學年度將增加1677人 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
24033.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
24053.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
院長1677人的概念等於說將近兩所高中就要擠入現有的高中所以量體明顯不足那麼此外在117到121學年度新竹縣的高中入學需求仍然會高於112學年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
24056.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
24069.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
所以它的人數不會減還是維持在那麼多的人數所以我們就新竹縣的整個人口的增加那麼我們高中確實有它興建的必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
24070.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
24097.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
所以說為了應應高中的就學的需求以及增加平衡區域教育的資源同時也為了服應在地產業的需求以及人才的培育均衡設置高中及高職的比例為我們增班規劃的重要考量是新竹縣政府的重要考量所以新竹縣政府規劃五大高中的需求方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
24099.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
24119.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
預計大概要35億這樣的一個經費那麼在116學年度可以增加招收29到33班可以增加1000多個招收的名額所以新竹縣提出了新竹縣高中五大方案需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
24120.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
24138.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
分別為新設立的一所高中叫實驗高中還有六家高中以及湖口高中的增班、擴班文興國中與志強國中改制為完全中學那麼其中湖口高中將增設電機與電子群 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
24139.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
24155.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
以及設計群科志強國中則改制為技術型的高中設置電機與電子群及化工群以增加我們功力高值的供應量並提供我們學生更多元適性的一個選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
24156.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
24173.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
那本席在這邊想請教院長這五大方案的需求經費35億元那麼已經送到教育部陳請行政院來核定補助請問院長目前我們行政院審核的進度為何好謝謝委員大新竹地區因為產業的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
24175.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
24196.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
人口的移入確實有增加高中學校的必要也謝謝委員多次在總諮詢提出這樣的需求為地方來請求增加這樣的一個建設那麼我們依照手上的資料到116年會增加可以在教育部跟竹竹苗三個縣合併起來的一個合作的計畫會增加2155名的員額的招生 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
24200.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
24205.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
將近有62班左右62班以上那這個是不是可以初步的達到這個階段的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
24208.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
24231.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
那麼竹科的實驗中學也已經配合教育部來規劃完成那麼113年度也會有新增普通科的一班至於委員所說的35億的新增學校的相關預算是不是教育部能夠再做詳細的規劃出來以後行政院再來核定我想過去包括蘇前院長都那麼樣大力的支持表示這個政策絕對是正確而且需要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
24234.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
24251.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
那現在更需要急迫把它接上來請政院允諾會全力的來支持謝謝院長給我們的承諾那院長我比較想更進一步的請教院長就是說過去蘇院長是以公建基金來補助我們那這一次我在去年七月份的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
24252.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
24276.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
在教文委員會的時候我也有請教我們政部長是否能夠請國發會以公建基金這樣的經費來做一個處理並且在去年的10月14號的時候經濟委員會到我們新竹地區考察那國發會當時國發會也認列新竹縣的教育問題攸關我們台灣整體高科技產業的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
24277.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
24286.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
但其實行政院已經在去年的九月就已經表示因為這個不是屬於重大公共建設計畫的範疇所需經費不依由我們公建經費的預算來支應 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
24293.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
24307.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
接著教育部就在去年12月確認竹苗地區有學生數徵求的需求並修正計畫為新建竹竹苗公立高級中學等學校校舍計畫114到118年度並函報行政院徵取專案計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
24314.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
24324.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
所以我想進一步了解院長現在我們是不是就朝我們現在教育部的規劃就是用專案的一個計畫來補助這個經費還請部長謝謝委員關心確實當時我想在這個國民教育在高中 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
24332.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
24348.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
高中以下的教育基本上是屬於這個地方自治所以我想國發會當時的一個核定就認為雖然地方的產業快速發展也有許多的新興學生的一些就學的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
24350.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
24368.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
我們也確實當時也希望說能夠從公建的一個計畫裡面能夠去提供這一個新竹大新竹地區的許多高中學生的許多的求學的需求那國發會有這樣一個表示那所以我們也根據國發會的一些意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
24369.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
24397.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
然後重新來修改那也希望在這個行政程序來報這個行政院來審理確實我們大概有針對這個新建的竹竹苗公立高級中等學校的校舍的一個計畫申請能夠增班專案的一個經會在整個行政院裡邊我們當然希望行政院看怎麼樣能夠中央跟地方能夠有一些共通的一些合作的一個模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
24397.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
24414.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
但在這個之前我們事實上在今年的1月也基於這個蓋校舍本來新建的一個校舍本來是比較需要一些時間的所以我們在立即性上我們馬上這個提供了巴索高級中等學校的一個增班我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
24415.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
24429.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
這一個國教署就補助這一個3700多萬直接到地方裡邊我們希望說學校裡邊現有的空間馬上來整辦但是屬於學校的規劃我打岔一下當然剛才講說補助3000多萬因為這個杯水車薪現在是35億 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
24436.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
24454.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
我剛才講的幾所高中還有完全中學的設立新竹縣已經提報了五大需求的一個方案那這個案子已經在去年就已經送出來了那我現在是就叫說請行政院還有部長到底教育部對這個案子你們的看法到底要不要補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
24455.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
24479.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
要補助用什麼方式來補助剛才您提到好像公建基金您認為不適宜嗎不適合嗎國安會認為是這不屬於重大的一個國家的一個建設屬於地方的一個治理的一個責任這個部長我們了解我們也能夠接受但是我希望說這是一個專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
24481.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
24507.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
這個專案院長你也知道新竹地區有這個需求嘛難道我們到現在還沒有一個下文嗎因為我一直問教育部教育部一直沒有辦法給我一個很明確的答案所以我今天直接來救教院長因為學校已經要蓋了要蓋了到現在經費都沒有著落因為這是新興區你看一下增加了將近兩所高中的人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
24508.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
24524.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
所以這是一個非常嚴重的一個問題教育問題量體明顯不足所以我們還是希望中央能夠協助地方把我們重要的教育的這個建設能夠補助我們這個相關的一個金額不要一直完全沒有效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
24525.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
24539.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
到底什麼時候能夠給我一個很明確的答覆這比我想院長已經我上次已經有私下問院長說這比經費院長有沒有看到教育部的一個這個呈報的一個函文有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
24540.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
24562.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
院長你有收到嗎目前是還沒有看到詳細的內容教育部為什麼會拖那麼久呢因為過去的政策我們有必要再做對的延續啦但是未來中央的財政能力我們必須考量但是我寧願不考慮這些我們考慮下一代教育的重要性我非常感謝您說要延續為什麼真的要延續因為鄭文燦 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
24564.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
24582.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
那當時是行政院副院長他到實驗高中到新竹的實驗高中他去訪視針對這個議題他說他們一定會全額補助啊全額只要提報上來全額的幫忙地方的所有的一個增班 擴校的一個經費但是到今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
24583.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
24604.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
你看已經拖了半年之久了到現在沒有下文所以真的要拜託院長請部長盡速的就這個專案計畫您也提了專案計畫趕快送到行政院請院長來做核定好不好院長給我們一個承諾請教育部敬請另外跟我做一個報告我們再來進行一下的程序謝謝 拜託了 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
24606.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
24618.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
第二個議題 台大校地的問題我想台大在26年前就取得竹北台大校地信誓旦旦的畫大餅要提出台大竹北分校的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
24620.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
24639.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
當年本席在新竹縣是擔任議員當時新竹縣會展現誠意在辦理限制二期的時候總共無償提供國道1竹北交道附近的用地35.7公頃給台大 振宇給台大讓台大無償取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
24640.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
24663.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
但台大到現在二十幾年啊,如果院長你有去看的話,除了蓋了一棟避震管是校友捐資的以外,其他完全一片荒蕪。我們在地的民眾對台大完全無動於衷,完全不去這個社校啊,我們現在已經抱著一個心態囉,阿婆生子,阿婆生子,不抱期待啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
24664.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
24674.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
所以台大到底要如何的善盡一個社校的義務因為當初跟新竹縣政府承諾就要社校但是到現在沒有社校 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
24675.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
24696.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
台大到底要讓這塊土地何去何從我覺得台大有義務要跟新竹縣的縣民講清楚說明白教育部有義務要督促台大已經有一個NTU Tech基地的一個設置未來朝向產學合作園區的方式去做去發展無論是教學單位或是教育推廣另外就是開設 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
24698.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
24714.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
碩士的在職專班等等台大都有一些計畫那是不是請教育部要求台大如果有計畫就按時程盡速的完成免得這個地方開發變成遲晚下來謝謝院長這也是我今天要這個去救教的 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
24715.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
24744.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
我們真的要請行政院請教一部要督促台大今天說要在這裡做一個剛才講的科技的創新的基地那麼整個計畫它的期程到底多久不要就講是這樣我們一直抱期待到最後完全還是沒有做我們常常看到開空投支票講這樣我們看楊弘科縣長怎麼樣去批評台大楊弘科縣長批評我再給你看一個powerpoint你看楊弘科縣長他怎麼講 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
24747.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
24763.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
一個校門口蓋五年楊文科縣長安批台大是詐騙集團一個校門口蓋了五年這樣的一個效率所以台大到底有沒有心要在這個無償的取得的土地上 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
24764.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
24787.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
來做一個教育百年大計的一個社分校的一個計畫如果今天是要講說要這個做什麼什麼創新基地啦說其他的一個產業的一個用途啦我講這完全背離了當時新竹縣政府把這塊土地贈予台大作為學校培育我們優秀人才的用意喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
24787.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
24803.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
謝謝委員提醒 我想我們會來督促台大我確實也在公開場合也在這個我們立法委員裡面的一個...謝謝 部長我最後一個問題我請你用書面答覆我台大當時取得這塊土地的過程請你用書面答覆我到底有償還無償 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
24811.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
24824.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
好 謝謝林思敏委員的質詢麻煩請林思敏委員所提的麻煩請教育部能夠儘速來答覆林思敏委員謝謝總院長教育部的備詢 謝謝接下來我們請葛如君委員質詢林倩琪委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
24845.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
24849.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
好謝謝主席有請卓榮泰院長麻煩請卓院長備詢各位好院長好我想我國的科研界及產業界都非常關注我們目前人工智慧基本法的立法方向跟進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
24872.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
24901.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
這實際上也是陳建仁前院長以及吳政中前政委卸任之前心心念念的嘱托也是所有的人都非常關注的回顧我國整個人工智慧基本法的研議過程早在去年3月本席剛剛就任就曾經質詢過AI基本法草案的進度當時陳建仁前院長表示樂觀其成當時我們有一位先發投手吳政中前政委進一步表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
24901.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
24915.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
即便他從內閣回歸民間但是科技政策是會延續的預計2024年年底會有院版的草案提出預計將會尋所謂的美日模式也就是對AI是鼓勵研發跟創新為主風險歸管為輔 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
24918.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
24941.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
不過去年520新內閣上任以後卓院長您所率領的團隊說是AI內閣對於各界可以說是非常非常的期待對於AI基本法的設定具以厚望認為錢建仁前院長交棒給卓院長AI基本法的草案一定就能夠在24年年底送進立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
24942.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
24966.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
當時制定人工智慧基本法的重責大任也就從吳振中前主委交給了我們現在的吳承文主委如果說吳振中主委是所謂的先發投手那麼我想吳承文主委就是非常重要的中繼投手如果狀態好的話應該可以一路投下去投到第九局取得比賽的勝利去年剛剛登板的吳承文主委也不負眾望了 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
24966.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
24988.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
一開始就給我們投出好球在6月的時候就召開了人工智慧基本法的首場諮詢會議並且在7月15號正式預告人工智慧基本法的草案收集了各界的意見再次投出好球主委您11月28號在教皇委員會也在詢答的時候說 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
24989.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
25016.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
草案方向未有大幅變動預計最晚於明年也就是今年的第一個會期送到立法院審議直到今年的2月6號行政院會後記者會國科會也都還持續在場上穩定的投球我想請教那當時國科會也表示一定會在新會期也就是這個會期重新送出我想請教員工智慧基本法法案草案送出來了沒跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
25018.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
25035.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
吳承文主委五十多年前就一直是國家的勝利投手知道 所以他投很多好球送出了沒 送出了沒去年底我們經過國科會送到行政院行政院也再一次的進行審議我們對內容還有一些意見所以現在還沒送出對 我們是審慎起見 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
25037.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
25058.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
其實這個180度的髮夾彎轉折出現了正當各界認為AI內閣應該要儘速提出沒想到剛剛二月初的時候國科會都還說沒問題結果二月底突然豬羊變色在場上穩定發揮的國科會突然被我們的這個教練來換將 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
25060.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
25085.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
改由速發部上場投球行政院立場突然180度大轉變宣布要將人工智慧基本法改由速發部來主管對此吼我們這個吳承恩主委也有相關的說明不過各見一片嘩然啊不知道到底什麼樣的理由這場比賽在終局之前有這麼大的轉變林鄭換將外界物理看花抽絲剝繭沒有一個答案院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
25086.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
25100.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
根據訴發部的說法行政院今年2月26號指示將AI基本法草案改由訴發部主政推動法案立法以及續刑條文的解釋請問這是不是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
25101.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
25126.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
因為經過院內包括政委包括各部會相關的討論我們認為這個AI基本法牽扯到國家安全也牽扯到這個基本的安全上的管理跟人民的直接權益關係都有相當大的所以交由部會更有能力但是吳承偉主委用政委的身份隨時在督導這個工作絕對沒有問題謝謝院長我要問的是這是不是您的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
25126.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
25131.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
是不是行政院的指示在討論之後做最後終決定的當然是院長院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
25133.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
25159.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
事實上你說得很好嘛 是你做的決定對不對對嘛 你剛剛說了嘛2月26號其實是星期三並不是行政院院會召開的日期本席上網特地查了2月20號 2月27號是行政院院會的決議這兩次的會議無論是報告事項或討論事項都沒有人工智慧基本法請問院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
25160.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
25172.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
到底在什麼樣的場合什麼樣的會議上去指示國科會要將AI人工智慧基本法的草案改交速發布這個跟委員報告行政院除了行政院會之外我們還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
25173.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
25199.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
政委的政務會議同時每一天不定時不定內容的我們還有各個大大小小的相關會議都會做成重要的決定但最終重要的法案都會經過行政院院會才會做決定好2月26號說改交嘛那這是哪一場會議這是哪一場會議抱歉我原先這樣問我必須要查一下這是哪一場會議沒有關係一定是經過一個所以必然是經過會議嘛一定是經過討論之後的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
25201.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
25214.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
那有沒有會議記錄有沒有公文佐證查出來相關談到人工智慧基本法的討論的會議2月26號為什麼我要這樣問因為各界非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
25216.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
25234.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
擔憂覺得為什麼會突然林鄭換將這是不是一個黑心教練中途更換投手的黑心事件啊我們我國在對AI的這個法規上是不是在打假球要對全國對全世界來做一個很奇怪的振錢換將的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
25235.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
25243.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
到底是什麼樣的原因大家會非常懷疑啊事實上政治呢2月26號其實是民進黨2月26號其實是民進黨的中常會啊是民進黨的會議啊沒有關係嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
25252.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
25279.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
所以2月26號的哪一場會議請提供資料否則這個重大的轉折大家沒有辦法理解我再請教院長人工智慧基本法等同於我國人工智慧基本的發展大法一共18條裡面只有5條是做風險的監管可以說本來是要定調研發為主監管為輔在先發投手的時期但是現在政院版的草案的主管機關改為速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
25280.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
25293.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
國科會說要全新發展AI相關的研究我們是不是可以確定我國對AI發展的未來整體規劃就正式要定調為從鼓勵研發科研創新轉為強調風險監管的方向 院長這並不衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
25298.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
25322.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
這就跟你的這個特別預算一樣什麼都要參進來嗎並不衝突不是來AI就是一個研發也要管控它的風險管理這並不衝突啊好沒關係你說沒有衝突那我就告訴院長為什麼速發部其實是不適合作為人工智慧的主管機關這裡面是可能存在衝突的第一根據速發部所提供的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
25323.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
25346.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
素產署還有資安署都表示114年度沒有編列AI科研的預算只有產業署勉強編列跟數位產業有關這還不是AI是5.9億元相比之下114年度國科會掌握的AI科技研發的預算一共將近52億元總共掌握的很可能還是到300億的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
25347.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
25367.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
以預算的規模來看國科會來掌握AI科研的預算是速發部的10倍所以這個其實就是一種差異啊對不起 稍微等我一下還有第二點從組織架構來看國科會是中央二級機關預算員額加聘僱大概有299人速產署是三級機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
25369.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
25391.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
加上這個聘用人員大概只有163個人在資源和人力雙重缺乏的之下怎麼能夠承擔我們的AI整體發展的重任呢第三法治量能抒發部是一向為人併購的我們沒有批評的意思但事實上就是11屆會期到目前為止總共抒發部只提出了電子簽章管理法和資通安全管理法 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
25392.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
25415.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
完全AI基本法到現在也草案的修正也沒看到影子沒錢沒人沒有法治量人怎麼能做我國的未來人工智慧發展的主管機關呢這是怎麼做的呢為什麼會有這樣的一個事情呢報告委員我們科技研發的預算國會來編列那我們支撐的當然不是政府在做研發而是我們的學界我們的產業界研究機構都會做然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
25416.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
25440.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
速發部呢將來會做產業AI的產業的推動好謝謝謝謝主委我沒有問您我要問院長您剛剛說可以平衡啊可是速發部就是沒有在做這塊啊沒有預算沒有人沒有錢在主管的單位上面更是速產署三級機關這怎麼科研怎麼發展怎麼創新院長您可以回應一下嗎我是真的很誠心的去請教啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
25440.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
25463.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
數位發展部本來就是掌管國家重大的數位發展計畫以及執行 它重要在執行一個部會比一個委員會來講它的執行能力會更強所以我們是著眼這樣子 必須做高風險的安全管理院長 你覺得數位產業跟AI產業是一樣的嗎數位產業它包含比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
25465.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
25475.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
所以我們剛剛看到只做資安跟素產我們的人力就已經不夠了草案都生不出來了你覺得他有量能可以繼續做AI嗎還會要求速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
25476.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
25497.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
在現在的時間內儘速把AI基本法草案完整的送到行政院我們的方向到底是不是轉變了我們以科研為主 創新為主轉成速發部 速發部是打詐跟治安嘛我們現在 您剛剛也講了是不是以風險公關 要就講清楚我們的方向是不是轉變了我們要並重 我們要鼓勵民間 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
25498.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
25518.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
多研發 我們也要著重於公權力上面的管理讓它高風險的管理能夠有安全的機制好 如果你說併重的話 請教院長您是否贊成應該比照行政院國家資通安全匯報成立一個由行政院召集的國家人工智慧戰略特別委員會 您說要併重嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
25518.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
25538.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
您才有高度可以併重啊主委還是政委嘛抒發部他也沒有辦法跨部會協調所以您支持這個說法嗎我們現在已經有跨部會的自動安全匯報因為戰略人工智慧戰略特別人會我們在公立會裡大家都提出來目前我們是沒有這樣的規劃但是我們已經有跨部會的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
25539.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
25565.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
跨部會的資通安全匯報來統合各部會的工作所以要把AI放到資通安全匯報裡面嗎我說我們現在已經有這個我們可以跨部會來做資通安全匯報我們有一個現在有一個智慧國家2.0方案剛啟動那副院長 正副院長召集我協助裡面會把AI產業的推動也會放在這裡不是 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
25566.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
25594.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
這樣大家越聽越模糊啊你的AI有一個智慧國家2.0是主委在協調然後你的AI基本法草案又給速發部來處理那你這個台灣到底AI是不是多頭N頭馬車啊副院長主持的是院級的副院長主持的智慧國家2.0所以不需要這個戰略了是不是智慧國家2.0就是在講AI嗎戰略可以在那邊談那速發部會是一個很重要的執行的一個部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
25595.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
25614.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
那其他的包含經濟部國會也都會協助沒關係我想這個整合的戰略我們還是希望有一個中央的帶頭啦我覺得現在這樣一團混亂再來我還是想請教一下院長現在啦我想繁體中文面臨到這個存續的問題我們很感謝文化部幫忙我們啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
25615.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
25640.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
跟這個相關的這個企業來溝通讓這個YouTube還有很多的平台繁中是繼續支持的那我請教一下院長你是不是認同我們應該要加速資料的開放相關法制化的作業我們在公聽會裡面也有很多專家說我們應該要有國家層級的AI訓練資料庫這個AI訓練院長知不知道什麼意思我們一直包括我們大型語言模型Tide這個就是一個大型的資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
25641.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
25670.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
我們也希望資料能夠在開放政府的這個概念底下能夠跟民間充分來使用國家現有的資源對不起 院長你可能要回去做一下功課TIDE是所謂的大型語言模型它不是一個資料庫我們需要一個國家級的資料庫台德在喊說資料不夠民間也在喊說資料不夠我們要有一個AI的語料庫讓民間跟國家級的都可以來運用院長可不可以支持這樣的主張啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
25672.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
25695.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
我們的確朝這個方向在走因為我們要發展主權AI一定要建自己的資料庫什麼時候會完成我們什麼時候會有這個國家級的AI資料庫這部分的工作現在在速發部因為他負責資料治理速發部負責資料治理所以速發部在AI基本法以及相關資料治理的法案他都會去推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
25697.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
25712.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
在推動的過程當中會跟我們的國防中心沒有關係 謝謝相關的資料請提供出來院長我相信你已經可以看到了啦一個AI產業到現在完全多頭馬車沒有資料沒有AI沒有電也沒有AI啦事實上我們想要告訴你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
25713.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
25733.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
我們需要核電我們需要更多元的能源彭子前董事長也說了核綠不要偏廢啦我們發現我們完全沒有編列相關的補助在做核能的研究跟創新我們甚至中研院所做出的近零五支箭完全沒有任何一支是核能啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
25734.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
25760.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
結果我們的中研院告訴我們說沒有人在討論的我們才把它放進來變成箭有人在討論就是有用的箭啊沒人在討論可能就是沒用的箭啊我們怎麼中研院幫我們政府規劃出來要設出的是五支沒有用的箭呢我想最後想要讓院長知道啦五月十七河山研議在即啦我們的河山場還可以放九年半以上我們是不是可以不要再大罷免大拖度了 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
25760.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
25764.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
我們要大台灣大成功我們更理性看待台灣的需要可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
25789.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
25803.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
接下来是登记第四位许志杰委员咨询已书面提出请行政院书面答复并列入记录刊登公报再接下来我们请林倩琪委员咨询蔡其昌委员请准备 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
25814.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
25822.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
喔 院長 服務院同仁大家好那首先我們請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長或者教育部長也一同 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
25830.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
25859.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
林委員好好 院長部長好首先我想運動部成立應該是今年府院最重要的一個工作所以運動政策的發展對於我們整個國家的實力還有全民的健康跟運動產業很重要但是目前我們對於整個運動部的設置跟相關的配套都還是有一些問題所以我想今天透過質詢我們能夠來探討一下這一些其實我們有很大的期待但是可能還要更具體措施的相關的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
25860.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
25879.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
首先我非常關注這個運產條例的內容那鑑於我們體育產業已經開始蓬勃那整個體育產業出現了很熱情的一個活力但是整個國家如果要帶動體育產業的發展我想我們應該要激勵民間的資金進一步的投入這樣整個運動產業才會廣泛 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
25881.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
25890.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
所以本席這邊有建議是不是可以來考量企業減稅方面的一個更精進那依照這個運產條例26-2條營利事業可以透過教育部來設置專戶然後捐贈職業 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
25896.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
25903.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
或業餘運動業有一些重點賽事的主辦單位目前是享受捐贈150%列為當年費用的稅額的租稅的優惠但是當時150%是因為財政部可能考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
25913.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
25927.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
體育署是第三級機關而訂定的那若未來有運動部的話這樣一個上限有沒有再提高的一個考量來作為民間投入的一個誘因不知道院長對這件事情的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
25927.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
25942.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
我們有一些增列付稅優惠的誘因其中幾個項目比方說引進資金投資運動產業鼓勵民間引進資金這就是本期這個議題的主旨也將盈利事業的捐贈辦理促進全民運動發展的賽事增加享受付稅的優惠等等我們有四五項這樣的優惠措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
25951.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
25963.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
好的 那所以這個150的上限或許在運動部成立的時候可能可以再討論囉就是最主要是鼓勵民間一起來參與我跟委員報告 確實我想我們在這個教文小組裡面的委員也關心跟委員一樣的這樣一個議題他們都希望在未來在捐贈的聚合裡面為了促進運動產業的發展希望能夠調高那一個比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
25977.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
25993.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
是是是 那這個部分可能在邁向運動部成立的時候就要趕快討論要不然可能會來不及好 那第二個部分是針對運動員本身本席在這邊提出一個名模條款的一個訂定那原先這個條款本來是為了國際的模特兒還有運動員跟一些藝人他們專業上的一個賦稅最主要也是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
26001.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
26026.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
吸引更多相關的人等能夠來參與但是應該版本上很多本席這邊提出兩個比較有可能執行的方面一個是保險保障這兩個部分首先是職業責任保險的保險費投保的人他就可以比較安心職業令所得人的服務對象可以透過合理管道來填補他遭遇的損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
26027.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
26051.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
也可以讓雙方免於訴訟並節省一些司法的資源所以可不可以考量納入職業運動保險的優惠來強化運動員本身的一個保障然後運動員在訓練跟比賽期間受傷的風險也很高所以運動員也不一定能夠獲得相關的保障所以本席在這邊建議是不是可以提供基本傷害保險的一個補助來允許運動員將個人的保險費用列為稅務 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
26056.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
26085.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
扣除的這個項目減低他們的財務上的負擔有沒有可能做一個評估呢?對不起 我明摩條款是說他可以比較對增加自己安全上的保障去投保那些投保的費用可以當做一些抵禁低減 對對對我想這是一個討論好的方式啦因為運動員他的生意還不是很長而且需要受到極力的保護一旦受傷的話損失就很大那這個時候如果有願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
26086.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
26110.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
這個民間也好產業界也好能夠來增加對他安全的保障我覺得這個是未來我們在保障運動員生涯一個好的方向我們就是朝這個方向去進行所以教育部有沒有可能針對這個部分去評估他的相關可能性本席這邊所提出來的這樣一個方向我想這一個類似明摩條款給予這個運動員的一些這一個運動生涯的一個更多的照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
26111.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
26120.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
以目前來講當然是財政部主責但是我想我們會後會來跟財政部來溝通交換意見把委員對運動選手的一個關心反映在未來的運動產業相關的一些支持上 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
26130.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
26154.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
另外還有一個可能性就是職業團體的會費是不是也可以一起做個考量這可以減輕一些運動員的負擔因為這些運動員他必須要加入一些職業聯盟或協會如果能夠在這個部分也有可能扣抵的話他繳納職業會費能夠扣抵他就比較不會負擔那麼高額的費用可不可以跟剛才我們講的這個議題一併做一個評估跟考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
26155.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
26174.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
我想有關這個運動加入這個運動團隊團體的一些職業工會等等的我想我們有來看跟勞動部怎麼樣來有一些相關的一些規範因為他終究在一個專業團體裡面他專業團體有他的一些職業上的一些共同的規範那我們來會後這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
26177.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
26192.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
來瞭解來看就是本席所提出來這兩點我想在這個平台在你們成立之前也可以做一些比較專業性的一個評估那這基本上是對運動員應該相對還是比較正向的好那最後在運動的這個部分我也要談到這個有關於單項協會的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
26196.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
26215.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
我們知道體育署對於單項協會雖然還是因為基於國際的規範不能介入太多但是70幾年前我們在單項協會還有國民體育法也針對單項協會的健康正常的運作做出了一些改革但是目前還是有一些狀況也就是說單項協會有兩個大問題一個是禮監事的投票然後再來是財政的紀律 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
26223.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
26242.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
這個在運動部成立之前我想應該也來做一個比較積極一點的討論因為體育署目前設計那個報名系統可能有一些我不能說缺失但是可能這個平台有一點簡單所以只有身份證跟居留證的這個號碼但是有一些協會他其實是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
26244.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
26264.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
幫會員來自發這個繳費證明那體育署呢如果沒有辦法查明繳費的管道那也就沒有辦法確認這是不是報名者自行繳費的那如果有心人士掌握了一些人頭那他就會有選舉上的優勢然後掌握李監事的席次那這個部分不知道有沒有一些什麼解決的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
26265.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
26282.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
報告委員當年國民體育法的改革並沒有辦法徹底完全有效的改革到體育界大家常年的詬病雖然我認為很多單向協會的主持人都是常年出錢出力在輔佐這個體育的活動跟相關的水手但是也有部分內部的財務有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
26283.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
26310.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
或者是在選拔的過程有問題甚至長期對這個單項協會有不當的一個把持的功能我覺得未來體育部成立之後一定要清楚的劃清這個界線讓當初沒有完全進攻的國民體育法能夠再次的顯現出我們對於整個體育改革國家用公權力能夠適度的來監督但不是強力的管理適度的監督絕對是必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
26310.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
26332.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
所以這是在運動部成立的過程當中我想有很多的課題是需要去處理的所以本席在國民體育法也提出來第38條的一個修法那本席這邊是把吳敬明限制連記法這個投票的機制從行政命令提高到了法律位階那要求李建勢改選的時候必須要用限制數計 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
26333.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
26358.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
那也就是說雖然選舉的時候我們可以全選多位候選人但是名額上應該有一些限制比如說二分之一等等這樣子的設計至少不會說一面倒那大到那個多數派一面倒的狀況雖然或許在財力上或在某些支持上他們可以來做一些支撐但是可能對於運動員的選訓的專業也會有一些狀況所以本席這邊有提到這樣一個修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
26359.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
26379.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
然後接下來是有關於財政紀律本席這邊也有提的相關的這個法案那近幾年對特定民間團體的補助經費越來越大然後越來越多但是呢有一些針對某一些團體的訪評其實有點不足那他們的財報又沒有辦法在限期內被查抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
26380.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
26397.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
然後沒有辦法在限期內被查就會耽誤到輔導的一些改善措施那針對這樣子的財政違規的法法行政程序也不明顯所以這個部分你們有沒有想到什麼樣子的方式來做處理呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
26400.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
26415.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
我想藉此陳主委所提的有許多的運動選手或者單項協會他們對這一項的運動是有熱情也願意推動但是可能在財務這個部分他缺了一些專業人員所以我們在未來這個部分是一定是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
26420.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
26432.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
在這個綜合規劃師在未來的運動部綜合規劃師對行務的監督跟財務的集合在這個部分我們除了會要求希望他們能夠有專業的這個會計人員來協助他們這個很重要這個未來的一個中規師也會 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
26439.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
26451.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
這個不定期的給予這個督導然後甚至這個抽檢類似這樣的一個監督我想在未來的運動部他已經有把這些就一個非常明確的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
26453.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
26472.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
所以可能在人員上必須要再更全面性來有時候抽查可能也不盡其功所以可能這個部分應該是未來運動部在成立的時候非常重要的一個財政距離的問題本席這邊也提出來這個整個國民體育法的43條的修正那針對你們全國性體育團體的經費補助辦法第9條明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
26476.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
26495.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
補助的協會如果違法失職藉其沒辦法改善不是只有停止補助喔可能還需要更積極的一些作為那我們不能老是用事後懲處的一個方式制度上我這邊提出來是希望能夠事前審核過程要強力監督然後事後就責三道防線那麼請教育部針對這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
26496.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
26506.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
也請我們的中規司未來如果是體育署或是運動部的中規司那如果他目前已經有相關的一個評估那也給本席送一個評估報告好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
26507.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
26528.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
好 那本席因為是原住民級所以我們也非常關心原住民的運動發展那我現在跟部長這邊 院長跟部長這邊在體育署跟園民會都有對原住民選手的一些相關的這個投入的相關計畫但是本席發現有一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
26529.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
26551.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
嚴重的問題就是說在體育署這邊規範了十項然後在原民會這邊規範了七項但是這些都是原住民可能以前已經有很好成績的項目那為什麼你們在現在要投入更多的時候不讓原住民的項目能夠更廣泛一點呢這是第一個然後第二個你們不能看過往跟現在得獎的牌數 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
26552.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
26574.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
全民體育這個應該是我們運動部成立很重要的一個宗旨那另外呢新興項目在原住民如果比較有機會得獎的可能性你們應該更擴大啊所以是不是教育部跟能夠協同園民會你們只有十項然後園民會只有七項這麼狹窄的項目其實我覺得動能是不夠的所以可不可以做一個處理跟檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
26575.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
26588.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
我想謝謝委員提醒本來原住民的運動項目他有一些過去的歷史上他們的一個強項或者原住民族特別偏好的那現在有很多新興的項目事實上也是具有潛力的那教育部跟言明會怎麼樣把這些項目能夠凸顯我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
26590.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
26616.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
顏名朋友的許多的運動的一些價值然後能夠為台灣爭光能夠在世界看到我們台灣顏名的一些運動的一些表現他們已經有部分都被看到了但是本席這邊講的是未來所以你們這個實相跟顏名會的氣象有點過於狹窄應該再擴大一些項目搞不好原住民也有在這方面很大的潛力也說不定 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
26617.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
26641.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
因為我看像委員本身就在玩設定這裡邊就沒有這個我不會因為我自己有項目啦但是就是說水域的整個活動其實也都可以考量進去你們其實在這個部分是沒有太多項目的未來運動部有一個很重要的使命就是全民體育全民運動的發展我們就可以發展更多發掘更多的項目是適合台灣各個族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
26641.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
26660.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
那原住民又是台灣非常珍惜的一些資源比如說像第一項越野那我們許多的這個同胞上山之後呢可以好幾天都不需要任何的指引就可以下山所以有很多Maybe現在是世界上的一個潮流但是我們可能沒有發現這些項目其實也應該置放進來一些新興項目讓原住民有機會好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
26661.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
26676.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
好那最後提醒一個就是基隆的國家羽球場本席也等了很久雖然他不是本席的強項但是本席也很關心這個發展所以是不是聽說現在已經到國發會已經送上到行政院是不是可以加快一下腳步可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
26678.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
26695.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
這個國家羽球場抱歉我還沒有看到相關的內容我會請如果已經到國發會我會請國發會加速來審計看看內容如果有需要提出討論我們會儘速來討論希望能夠就羽球運動來做全民的普及好好謝謝謝謝那最後本席這邊做一個提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
26696.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
26722.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
目前在各大校園大罷免的過程當中風風雨雨我們在教育基本法的第六條也揭示了教育的一個重力原則當然不是每個人都可以拿捏得很好但是半年多前竟然有老師在課堂上對學生高舉了對其他一些在野黨的總召的侮辱之詞另外還有公民考題帶了一些政治上已有的立場利用命題的權柄 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
26723.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
26736.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
會讓學生要執行這樣子的意志然後最近還有某個大學講師公然在講台上評論在野黨這樣子的一個利用權力營造在 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
26794.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
26813.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
好 謝謝林倩琦 文職運謝謝主委院長 教育部長 貝馴 謝謝現在一場二樓旁聽的是來自我們基隆青商會的好朋友我們掌聲歡迎他們好 歡迎 歡迎再接下來我們請蔡奇昌委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
26830.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
26857.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
謝謝主席請院長跟教育部正部長麻煩再請卓院長教育部部長備詢蔡委員好院長好部長好委員好謝謝院長首先真的是感謝這個本席過去一直在提希望能夠對於體育設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
26858.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
26886.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
特別是台灣人最喜歡的棒球的運動設施能夠有一些專案型的計畫來改善球場的環境那我很謝謝行政院 謝謝教育部體育署列了這個教育部體育署優化全民運動與賽會環境的這個計畫透過這個計畫呢現行的職棒場地在過去拿了中央三億的預算這一點我現在在這裡表達感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
26888.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
26912.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
這計畫當中其實不只棒球場地本席一直在關心台灣需要一個國際標準的室內自由車館本席也知道這個計畫當中編了六億要來興建合乎國際標準的室內自由車館包括台中包括高雄跟台南都有提出相關的爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
26914.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
26932.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
那本席一直很希望能夠在清水這個地方來做好不是因為本席是因為清水人主要第一個我想院長你也很清楚清水現在已經有一個既有的自行車已經蓋非常久了但他最大的缺點是因為他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
26933.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
26954.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
這個賽道不是現在主流的250公尺它的賽道是比較長的333對333那所以呢我們會希望說因為有這一個場地加上院長你也曉得在我們海線地區的國中高中像大甲高中啊等等還有國中 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
26954.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
26982.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
都是自行車的這個重點的訓練學校那同時自行車的產業基本上也是以大甲附近為核心所以如果能夠在台中的海線加上這一座室內的自行車廠符合現在國際主流250公尺那未來有一個300多的室外的加一個250的室內的加產業聚落加國高中的孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
26983.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
26999.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
台中是自由車的車選手的訓練重鎮所以整個訓練它將會群聚化也就是說在這樣的一個環境底下訓練也好 舉辦比賽也好它就不需要舟車勞頓所以它變成了一個訓練自由車運動項目的聚落加上產業 腳踏車都在我們那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
27007.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
27019.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
所以本席一直很希望這樣的一個計畫能夠產生群聚效應而不是分散那當然我相信高雄台南也有他們爭取這個室內車廠的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
27020.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
27044.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
我不知道在現行的評估裡面他是只能六億蓋一個或者他其實是行政院如果要推動這個自行車這項單項的運動的時候其實台灣是不只需要一個場館那院長不知道你的看法好謝謝蔡委員容許我再一次代表廣大的國人對於蔡會長帶領國家棒球隊贏得國際的戰譽 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
27048.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
27073.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
為國人爭光 再次的表現尊敬跟肯定我想同樣的精神委員今天關心的是自由車在台中清水已經有一個現有的場地它不符這個國際的標準我們希望能夠把它整建那我們編了2500萬那另外我們希望委員希望能夠有一個新的自由車廠是符合250公尺的標準場地那這個可能經費要高達4億元左右 評估起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
27074.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
27102.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
那現在是不是將來運動部成立之後他會推廣更多的全民體育在這個情況底下我們再來做統合的規劃是不是容許在那個時候一方面整建那一方面是不是要增建一個新的同時在台中地區做通盤的規劃所以我想院長你的意思我懂你也不反對啦只是說必須要等未來運動部成立之後更系統性的對於自由車這個競技活動到底我們需要幾個場館怎麼蓋 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
27104.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
27122.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
應該有一個比較通盤性的考慮我們希望半年內運動部就會成立希望把它移交給他做一個更長遠的規劃所以我還是謝謝院長因為我相信我們台中有很強的競爭力市政府也提出願意支持我們台中市政府常常不願意支持但這一次他是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
27123.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
27149.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
所以我想說這樣的一個情況底下中央地方可以合力來把這個自行車這個單向運動未來有更大的奪牌的可能跟機會所以我想這個是本席今天跟院長來講這個事情很重要的原因那第二個剛剛謝謝院長對我的誇讚其實我不是選手啦重點還是這是大家心裡深深的話是我們選手很認真那同時就我剛剛提到我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
27150.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
27168.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
長管的這個計畫裡面這個賽會環境的計畫裡面有編列一個三億的預算那大概我們大概會過去我們大概就編列了在四個球場那現在部分已經完工了像桃園的樂天棒球場這個八千萬那我也跟院長報告因為過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
27170.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
27197.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
本席在當副院長的時候我就一直在提這個但我們的球場都是地方政府蓋的所以維護也必須要地方政府加上球團依照契約來分工做球場的改善但地方政府常常講沒錢他的一句話我常常爭取他就是說沒錢但十二強世界冠軍現在地方政府都比較有錢忽然之間對棒球這項運動地方政府都比較支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
27198.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
27210.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
那所以我說打鐵蹭熱的意思就是說事實上我們編的這個三億並不是中央全額買單而是中央出了三億有了誘因來協助地方政府的首長他願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
27211.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
27231.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
出錢來把他轄下的所有的這些棒球場來加以改善所以你看我們桃園我們中央出了八千萬那不夠的錢就地方政府跟樂天球團來出所以你看現在的桃園球場已經不會過去動輒一下雨就淹水場地就不能使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
27231.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
27250.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
那過去這個比賽打到一半會熄電那現在呢這些完全都把它改善好所以這間球場已經是比起過去來講很多那新莊棒球場也是這個也拿了我們中央的八千萬所以呢你看新莊球場現在啊這個富邦的球迷都很高興說有一個這麼漂亮的球場 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
27251.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
27280.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
那一路我們從當然有些比較慢像洲際球場的廁所到今天都才在開始興建動工而已這個是比較慢的那本席今天要借這個機會講一下因為還有還是有一些這個球場的預算這3億裡面還是分配不到譬如說這個澄清府球場的LED螢幕那部長也知道院長也知道這個對於過去這個螢幕現在的新的球場螢幕是越蓋越大因為它符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
27281.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
27297.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
球迷跟比賽之間的關聯性互動性然後把比賽的資訊可以透過這個大螢幕讓球迷朋友更加了解所以你可以看國外新蓋的球場譬如說我們以北海道的球場來看你看那個新建的螢幕其實是環繞型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
27298.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
27314.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
已經是環繞型的所以那個對於整體的比賽的精彩度對於台灣作為一個棒球王國我們其實是需要這樣的一個建設但我們先不談到像北海道球場我們先回到基本就好你看我們現行的這個球場幾乎啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
27315.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
27335.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
這個陳清武球場是模糊不清就連看清楚都有問題所以那個表示他已經衰退了老舊了那我也請高雄市政府陳市長來注意這個問題陳市長他也很熱心他說如果中央可以比照這個球場設施的改善這樣的一個計畫願意來支持那他剩下的部分他來負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
27336.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
27364.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
所以我也很謝謝陳其邁市長願意來支持螢幕的改善所以院長這個在未來我知道現在臨時講這個我們預算都有一個程序那是不是在未來運動部成立之後也可以來支持這筆預算是的 蔡委員我們記得前幾天我們有一個足球比賽因為國內場地的不符標準被取消了我覺得對國家來講是很大的損失我也覺得應該很慚愧我們應該把我們的場地 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
27365.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
27373.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
讓他能夠符合國際的標準那國家的棒球是國人最喜歡的也是我們引以為傲的如果一個場地 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
27374.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
27399.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
因為這樣螢幕的設計不足或者老舊而造成大家在觀看比賽甚至未來迎接國際賽事上的一個障礙我覺得我們應該極力的把它爭取高雄的澄清棒球場現在他提出一個整建的計畫要1.1億左右但其中並沒有這個項目螢幕的整建雖然體育署有承諾要補助6000多萬但是我剛剛跟部長說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
27400.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
27426.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
地方政府也願意配合我們體育部想辦法完成這個事情讓這個螢幕能夠寬心因為市長那個六千多萬再加這個螢幕大概再加個一千多萬就可以完成因為剩下的錢高雄市政府要出部長能不能做到我們把它可以嗎 部長這個可以嗎地方政府把它做好好 謝謝我代表高雄市代表很多球迷來謝謝行政院跟體育跟教育部的支持最後一個題目也大一點但我覺得院長這個很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
27427.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
27442.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
我們從1931年開始我們的卡隆就是加農在甲子園拿到亞軍但如果時間再往前推我們在1906年當時的台灣總督府中學棒球隊就是建國中學的前身 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
27442.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
27466.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
這個是第一個棒球隊啦 在1906年所以台灣棒球的百年史 事實上我們已經超過百年了那如果以嘉農的甲子園拿到亞軍來看的話我們一路從甲子園的亞軍一直走到世界十二強的冠軍我們也接近一百年那我也知道運動部未來成立之後有在規劃所謂的這個叫做運動博物館 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
27467.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
27481.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
但事實上可能棒球的運動的歷史這個百年的歷史它所需要的文物它所需要的研究特別是在像早期我們看到的都只是時間序沒有具體的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
27483.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
27498.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
這個對台灣做一個棒球王國或者國人那麼喜愛棒球我們竟然連一個政府支持的當然現在有一個在桃園嘛但那個因為飯店經營不善的關係我看也岌岌可危啦所以台灣等於沒有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
27499.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
27516.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
比較正式比較有系統性的棒球博物館但是我們如果看你看其他像美日的國家他們棒球博物館大大小小針對個人針對棒球運動那個真的是日本十個以上美國我相信二十個以上大大小小的 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
27517.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
27536.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
所以本席一直在希望能夠有一個棒球博物館的興建特別是我很希望如果以卡拉翁而言的話那剛好差不多100年了快100年了那個院長跟部長可不可以承諾本席這件事情我們要加速來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
27537.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
27558.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
再次謝謝蔡會長的大力疾呼我覺得台灣棒球的實力已經不只是台灣的棒球它應該成為世界棒球歷史的一部分所以我們要為世界留下一個美好的紀錄也要為後人留下一個前瞻我們這一代風光的時代有一個紀錄完整的棒球歷史是我們應該要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
27559.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
27578.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
為前人為後人我們都應該做的我希望我們再跟民間團體以及協會一起努力之下用政府的力量加上民間所有的資源我們一起朝這個方向來努力來達成好 那因為我們剛剛所談的事情很多事情都跟運動部有關那我想請問院長運動部的時程大概什麼時候會掛牌 預估 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
27580.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
27599.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
我們預估在8、9月吧8、9月就可以掛牌那時間馬上就到了啦所以這些事情的落實我看接下來運動部要承擔很重要的工作那院長部長的人選跟次長人選都定了嗎我們希望給社會一個非常清新亮眼而且很有前瞻的 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
27599.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
27615.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
希望帶領整個運動部全新起飛我一直強調全新的運動部 全新的部長我想這個是很重要的啦就是必須要找一個有亮點而且我認為團隊恐怕要有一定的行政能力因為後續的行政工作很多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
27616.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
27637.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
凡事起頭難一開始相當很多的行政作業我們很期待啦因為我想運動界體育界大家都很期待運動部的成立也很謝謝賴總統這個喜歡棒球的總統然後願意來把運動部來成立我相信這個對台灣的體育發展運動發展應該是一個跨時代的盛事 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
27638.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
27666.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
那最後一個我想部長我們地方有那個大安溪橋跟大甲溪橋也就是這兩條橋是台一線很重要的兩個橋樑那這個橋樑因為年代比較久了我們公路局本席也都會刊很多次了也請他們去評估了那現在文送到行政院來那行政院似乎在對預算要用哪一筆錢有一點跟公路局不一樣的看法院長你知道這個事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
27667.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
27680.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
我有看到一些書面但是沒有完整因為我知道這兩個橋加起來一個36億一個44億將近有81億的工程款相當的多所以現在納入整個省道的改善計畫裡面去 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
27681.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
27709.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
所以專業評估是沒有問題的需要做但是預算要來自哪裡譬如說用省道的基金來做或者行政院有其他的錢可以做我希望這件事情行政院能夠趕快定案如果要回到省道基金去做我也希望行政院能夠快速讓交通部來核定這個預算我們盡快來綜合考量定案好 謝謝院長那最後我想部長你也要注意一下那個我剛剛注意到那個新聞就是那個英檢的抽測 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
27711.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
27740.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
好像各地方國小跟國中各校都有很多的不一樣的看法那這個抽測我相信我了解起來那問題還是主要在於那個時間可能過於衝突就是臨時之間要大家在一定的時間內然後抽到學校去做這個英文線上的這個檢測但是可能這個設備是不是你抽到的學校每一個學校都有這樣的設備那這個可能教育部要在公務員報告事實上可能有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
27741.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
27748.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
當然地方政府學校校長聽到抽冊大概都會緊張其實我們這一個我能夠這一個英語的 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
27810.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
27833.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
好 謝謝蔡其昌委員的質詢謝謝左院長 教育部長備詢 謝謝接下來登記第七號林怡菁委員第八號吳佩奕委員第九號張宏祿委員質詢均以書面提出請行政院員書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報報議會 我們休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
28510.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
28510.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
謝謝主席我們請左院長還有正部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
28537.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
28540.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
麻煩再請卓院長備詢 教育部請備詢林文豪院長好 部長好我接續剛剛這個蔡其昌委員的一個話題就是說我們的運動部在今年的這個八九月會掛牌是不是我們期望是那個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
28564.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
28580.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
那有提到這個運動部長人選我剛聽到這個院長是說這個全新的部長全新的運動部前瞻亮眼那我請問一下那大概是怎麼樣符合什麼樣條件可以來接這個運動部的部長因為我們在籌設運動部的時候我一直強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
28581.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
28593.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
這不是一個體育署的升格它是一個全新的運動部它要有全民體育運動它要有運動競技有國際的事務它還要有運動產業還有這個適應的體育等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
28597.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
28615.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
多元的方向跟過去的單一的學校或是比賽的運動截然是不同的所以我們需要一個全新的運動部所以我們也要有一個有不同視野的部長人選那這個我們現在正在多方的洽談尋覓當中現在已經有在找這一個適當人選就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
28617.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
28638.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
我們有幾個心裡的想法這樣聽起來好像不是從我們原有的內閣裡面去找出來的好像是去外面找的是不是我強調一開始很多行政作業是必須要銜接的這個銜接的工作非常繁複我們也必須要有相當多的行政上鮮熟的公務人員來做一些銜接的工作這倒是必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
28638.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
28663.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
好 OK 那我再請教一下這個院長這個我們現在有通過一個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別條例然後預算也是增加到4100億那其中呢 在照顧民生這方面呢我們編列了1670億 其中有200億呢是給這個強化高等教育人才的培育那不過我聽到很多的在野黨的委員覺得說那這一筆預算或是說這個計畫本來就有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
28665.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
28690.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
他們認為說是不是在灌水啦那我請教一下院長或是部長那能不能再把這個計畫再說清楚一點為什麼在這個時候要把這個200億把它加進去好 謝謝委員雖然我們這是因應國際情勢的強化安全任性的特別條例不全然單只是針對美國關稅貿易秩序的調整但是不可否認美國關稅貿易秩序調整會造成我們國內各行各業的一些衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
28691.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
28698.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
在產業現場來講更需要產學的合作也更需要引入延攬 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
28699.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
28722.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
更多的外國優秀的人才進到國家來去幫助產業幫助學術研究甚至很多學校他在未來充實學校設備的情況要購買新的設備也可能會因應到一些關稅的衝擊我們也必須對他做實質上的一些支持所以他不全然相關但是他一定有他相關的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
28723.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
28748.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
所以我認為這是整套作業下來的那這個如果條例通過之後這個相關的一些施行的細則出來之後會比較清楚啦因為我看那個條例條例當然基本上特別條例不會寫得太細那我是希望說這部分的話那請教一下部長那大概如果條例通過之後多久相關的這一個施行的這個細則或是辦法會出來讓大家會更了解說我們這200億要怎麼去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
28751.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
28772.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
謝謝委員跟委員報告其實在這一個事實上在現場還沒有宣布之前事實上我們教育部都已經有在內部作業而且我在整個高等教育我們因應這一個人才的需求跟產業所帶來衝擊裡邊包含這一個許多的Science跟Inc.020這個所謂的理工科的老師在 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
28773.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
28793.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
怎麼樣去能夠強化許多延攬因為現在如果委員我相信在各大也聽到很多的一個聲音大學端幾乎在理學院、工學院已經聘不到老師因為都往業界跑了都往業界跑特別在關稅以後所造成的衝擊我們相信他可能會有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
28794.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
28810.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
對高等教育人才培育上的一個再把他們拉回來所以我們現在現場看起來特別只是這個產學怎麼樣去有一個更緊密的合作我們在人才培育有一些更新的創新模式能夠為台灣培養人才也能夠為產業所用這裡邊的R&D應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
28813.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
28840.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
產學要更緊密的合作那這裡邊的許多的一些人才元朗包含這一個留任的獎金我們怎麼樣有一些更開拓性的一些對未來的想像事實上我們教育部也已經都有充分的在討論而且那個辦法會隨著這一個我們通過以後我們會立即提出那應該是蠻短時間就可以提出來了嗎通常我們在條例通過之後就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
28842.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
28863.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
詳細的詳列一個特別預算裡面各個單項就會像一個預算書一樣很詳盡的向大院報告所以那時候股價先出來了肉就會跟著出來了那我現在要講一個比較嚴肅的話題就是說現在Netflix上面有一個英國的戲劇叫做混沌少年史不曉得院長跟部長有沒有看過或是聽過 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
28866.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
28890.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
好,沒有關係有時間,因為最近大家比較忙那這個四個小時而已啦那其實它這個裡面的議題是提到就是說一個青少年他殺了他的女同學但是呢,他的這個話題或是這個議題裡面呢談到了一個校園的霸凌、網絡的世代文化的隔閡、親子教育等等它發生在英國,但是它也有可能發生在全世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
28892.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
28918.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
這當然是跟衛福部也有相關教育部也有相關國家衛生研究院它在2022年它有調查郭瀟五年級到高中的三年級八千多位學生進行調查它發現包含這個性私密的影像外流網路霸凌還有網路遊戲成癮等等都是年輕世代智商危險的因子然後尤其是性私密影像外流跟這個網路霸凌會交織發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
28919.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
28940.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
是最強的一個智商風險的一個因素啦那我們在去年底我們在立法院有這個通過了這個學生輔導法的一個修正案那我們當然就增加了這一個校園的專業的輔導人員但是現在問題就來了就是說這個方法是很好或者說做法是很好我們把這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
28942.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
28961.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
這個國小跟國中的這一個班級數比如說現在是國小的話呢二十班呢就增加一名的專任輔導教師然後國中呢是十五呢調降到十二等等然後呢現在呢修法之後會增加603名的這個專任輔導的這個教師但是呢我們沒有這麼多的教師 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
28963.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
28980.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
在國中預計要到114年國小最快到116許年度呢才能夠聘足專業的輔導教師員額那所以說 半門打開了但是到目前為止還找不到符合資格的人那我請教一下院長跟部長這段空窗期那如何去因應咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
28982.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
29006.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
網路的霸凌或是網路世界這種虛擬的這個問題是國際性通信的問題國際通常都現在普遍存在每一個國家裡面所以有一個影片可以看得出來大家對這個國際性的問題那現在我們對於心理輔導這個工作是一直希望年齡層要往下降次數要增加要達到他的效率但所以如果說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
29007.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
29015.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
因為輔導的教師不足教育部應該有相當的計畫跟現在執行的能力要如何來研究把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
29016.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
29038.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
輔導的老師師資跟人數跟效率方面都要提升那部長這邊要不要再補充說明容我跟委員做一個可能需要比較長的一個時間報告在這個學輔還沒有通過事實上我們小學老師就有不足輔導老師就有不足但是我們師醫師事實上都有評估而且就我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
29039.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
29065.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
配合因應學務法所通過的因為是這個輔導人力的一個增加我們事實上是內部有討論怎麼樣有一些更快的包含專業團體的一些補救的一些措施包括師資的培育包括結合專業教師的一些徵人包含我們現在也跟我們包含我們下一學期也今年9月因為所有這些的問題事實上有更多的美國的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
29066.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
29080.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
這個研究的Data有來自歐盟的Data包含我們衛福部的Data我們看到了一個智慧手機短影音所造成的青少年世代的許多的身心的一些負面的影響因為焦慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
29082.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
29111.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
右翼因為自傷因為自殺等等這些我們事實上是有一個更完整的除了心理輔導老師的一個培訓真人包含導師的一個真人以外我們事實上還有一個更釜底抽薪我們從今年9月全國的22個縣市教育局處長我也都跟他們親自大家交換意見全面家長學會教師學會全部都會校長學會全部都會來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
29112.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
29130.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
這樣的一個手機集中管理也就是說我們希望有一個更支持性的更健康的一個青少年的一個校園的一個學習環境甚至讓他們一個組結有許多會造成心理負面傷害的這些能夠有一個更完善完整的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
29132.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
29157.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
一個改善包含怎麼樣去引用這個民間的這個力量SELO裡面能夠學校的許多的霸凌包括黑幫種種的許多的問題他當然不可能只有校長跟老師我們也希望家長包括社區的力量包括警政的力量我們全面的來做一個系統性的一些來改善部長剛才有提到應該是就是說禁用手機這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
29158.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
29172.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
那我提到就是說我們這個專業的輔導教師人人數不足的問題我們基本上大概預估以我們現在的策略方案我們大概120大概就都會補齊到哪時候120年那比這個預估的還要再更慢一點本來是國中是預計到114學年國小是預計到116學年跟我們報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
29183.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
29205.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
這個是在沒有修法之前事實上也都達不到那修法之後因為需要的人所以就是到120年是好那另外就是說剛有提到說這個學生自殺的問題就是說自殺以成為6到12歲國小學生第六大的死因然後呢在衛福部的統計在這個2024年 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
29208.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
29220.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
過去五年間12到17歲的青少年自殺死亡人數呢從12.5%上升到18.4%自殺是成為青少年的十大死亡原因第二位那其實都有增加了 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
29222.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
29240.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
我要問的就是說我們在這個2023年有一個15歲到30歲的一個年輕族群心理健康支持方案那去年我們增加我們延長到45歲就是變成說是15到45青壯世代心理健康支持方案那民眾每年有三次這個免費智商 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
29241.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
29263.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
好,那如果這樣子的話,那有沒有辦法就是說,我們既然已經延長到45歲,那有沒有這個機會就是說,我們再從15歲往下,向下延伸。因為現在就是有關這個青少年或是國小的孩子們,其實在憂鬱這方面,或是說我們剛剛提到的說,對於他們網路文化的一些影響,對他們會造成一些影響的話,能不能把這個諮商的這個年紀再往下降。 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
29263.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
29285.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
我剛剛委員報告我們年齡層有在下降我覺得我們應該往下去扎根讓更小的這個小朋友們他們不要受到這種心理上的障礙但是也必須考慮到我們現在針對新的修法之後國小跟國中每20班每12班都增加一名的輔導教師我們也必須在短時間能夠補足這個適當的時機短時間是沒辦法補足啦所以我才說這個有關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
29289.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
29308.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
心理諮商這方面的話能不能就向下延伸我希望能夠向下延伸而且三次並不一定要限定三有的他比較情節需要的話甚至應該考量他達到一定的效果而不是限定三次的確看到有一些個案就是說他們就三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
29311.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
29333.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
非常可惜我是希望說能夠再向下再延伸那次數就看經費是不是能夠再調整那第二個就是說在目前的健保的給付對於兒少心理諮商的補助的話那其實是二十幾年來沒有做調整就是說精神醫療給付沒有隨人力成本增加的調整那有沒有這個調整的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
29334.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
29351.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
我講一定是必要隨之在必須要調整的因為各方面的環境都在轉變那我覺得政府在這個地方多投注一些心力的話會減少未來家庭的一個不幸的事件甚至犯罪事件甚至治安事件都可能會減少用這個來看政府的投資絕對是華德來值得的 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
29354.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
29371.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
那現在就是說家長他不願意讓小孩去這個兒童心智科就診另外一個隱性的原因就在於說有些保險公司還會跟你講就是說你如果你的小孩去看這一個心理醫生的話那可能會影響到未來這個救保保險那個相關的權益的那所以這方面是不是能夠請 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
29372.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
29394.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
我們政府跟金管會來澄清就是說兒少的這個保險權益不會因為你受到心理諮商或是精神整治的影響那我想這方面我們政府如果有一個比較明確的一個宣示的話那也比較不會影響到說家長去帶小孩去做這個心理諮商或是去看這個兒童心智科的一些影響啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
29395.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
29418.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
原則性來講我們不希望這些小孩子被有標籤式的貼法無論是他在同儕之間甚至於我剛剛說的整個社會制度都不應該因為他接受這樣子而有不同的待遇所以我認為這個應該請我們相關單位要研究讓他能夠公平化能夠把他納到一個正常的管理範圍裡面來輔導他才是一個國家的正途 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
29419.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
29443.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
那教育部有沒有機會把心理健康的評量納入學生定期篩檢的項目裡面我想我們會有關心理的評量我想學校裡邊我們來看怎麼樣來協助青少年包含兒童但是有許多屬於專業的可能還是要跟衛福部來情誼 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
29446.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
29470.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
好 那其實我還有這個很多議題要問但是時間已經到了那所以剛剛比較一些嚴肅的一些問題我再請這個院長跟這個部長好 謝謝李坤誠委員執行謝謝主委院長 教育部長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請丁學忠委員執行 劉書斌委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
29478.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
29487.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
感謝韓院長我請卓院長跟政府部長麻煩請卓院長再次教育部長再次備詢應委員好院長好委員好部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
29501.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
29508.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
我們這幾年來,我們國家各單行的體育行為,當這個國際賽都有非常好的成績,尤其是我們這個冠球十二強,我們奪冠,而且又套入這個世界競技賽,這個預賽,可以說是舉國翻騰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
29521.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
29530.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
全民都共青,今天要跟我們議長和國長討論的就是,我們這個好運動選手,我們向下扎根的這個訓練是非常重要所以今天要討論的就是,我們這個學校,還是基礎、基站,這個運動發展的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
29543.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
29567.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
因為我們本地雖然核心臨座和資源有六度但是這幾年體育發展都非常好證明只要我們的孩子有好的一個條件他們都可以體育得很好的成績舉例來說我們當這個外寮高中的環球隊當九年黑高旗的全國高中棒球大賽卡比力四強 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
29569.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
29586.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
給城國小跟外寮國小的排球都是全國賽的前三名立倫國小跟土庫國小的籃球常常在我們教育部的比賽都是互相奪冠的一個好的球隊我們並非是傳統的這個球類的運動的強項但是我們的主管跟醫生國度跟六島的學校來守備有這麼好的心情 這真的是無良運 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
29598.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
29606.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
主要是管政府跟地方的設計合作婦人關的災情真的是悠閒但是也是非常適合來找到主管請請專任運動教練跟營養補給跟運動防護人這個人員的一個增加以單行的運動單行的自治運動當我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
29625.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
29627.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
褔衛從小有兩位學生去參加塞爾維亞的世中運空手道比賽因為體調非常好褔衛教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
29640.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
29651.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
因為當全國的優惠表現都非常好這些選舉都可以說是他們個人的一個組織跟我們的運動教練跟我們的家庭的人力投入協助訓練讓他們有好一個心情但是這也是要有這麼大的經濟他們現在所看到的在這裡跟他們各個他們希望說我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
29666.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
29671.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
這個運動防護員,還有重量訓練師,還有營養師啦他們希望的這個不用常駐,不用常在那裡駐典,是可以讓孩子有這個上課的合適的機會選手已經有基礎了,他們這個專業運科加入後,我們的選手的程度才有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
29692.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
29701.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
我們國際的強度來比拚我們分明這個地方是比較偏鄉選擇金、軍、武器的地方才是主要的這算是說外國人才也是我們國家的一個損失因此在這裡要請教我們院長跟我們部長對於這個基站的運動優秀的運動發展我們國情有提供相應主管來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
29721.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
29749.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
好 謝謝丁委員我們未來在運動部成立的時候全民體育 全民運動是重要項目而且是我認為是最重要的首當其衝這也是在總統均衡台灣的理念之下希望發展全部各個項目而且各個地區 各個縣市所以不會再集中在六都不會集中在某些個地方當然 比方說原住民的同胞他有一些專長我們會給他獎勵的去發展但是我們希望能夠均衡的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
29749.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
29763.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
所以像學校如果說各個學校包括非六都的其他縣市應該設體育班的我們也希望能夠全部設到足額的體育老師現在雲林縣還沒有設到足額他應該設32名目前還少4名 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
29766.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
29784.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
這個我們會請體育組來協助讓他無論如何要先把這個基本的條件撐起來他才能夠試圖去發揮其他的剛剛您提到的防護員 營養師等等都要同樣的理念向我們由未來的運動部全部來協助各地方來做均衡性的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
29784.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
29788.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
感謝院長,這是對我們基礎的運動一個很好的消息我們體育部門已經正在申請,我們主管的預期會增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
29798.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
29808.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
請我們國中高中對我們的基站、學校,還有這個運動設施運動設施是很重要的,我們要有好的選手,我們要有好的運動設施來支持因為學校、體育,還有我們的基站、體育,是我們國家運動實力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
29818.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
29828.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
更新,這個部分再拜託我們院長跟我們副長好,謝謝委員報告其實我們因為我們邊說,就像委員說的婚姻館這幾天的運動選舉,他的孩子在體育表現的成績很好所以因為婚姻館的財力 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
29837.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
29858.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
所以體育署也優先在體育相關的補助大概我們都給你大概達到八成的這樣一個補助簡單來講從去年到現在我們事實上給迎寧縣的一些經費已經達到三億多三億三千多萬的這樣一個補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
29859.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
29878.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
對四十七個學校的運動場地的興建跟體育器材的構置有四十八校,總共也累積了七千多萬所以我們對婚姻觀,在孩子們運動的環境我們要怎麼讓他們有更好的體育署的部分,其實是真要用心因為剛才也有特別交代運動部成立後我們要來加強對地方的運動選手、頭座委員所講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
29888.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
29905.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
專業運動教練或是防護員等等的這些東西我想這個運動部的成立一定會對地方在這一個部分我相信中央跟地方的合作一定會讓我們的運動選手有更好的一些照顧跟支持感謝郭隊長剛才郭隊長說的對我們婦人館的基礎運動行為的支持我們都有提供希望我們這個運動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
29916.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
29933.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
我們體育局成立後,可以更加落實、更加積極第二個部分,要跟議會討論的是校園安全和人力資源的問題關於校園安全的問題,我想先從國內提出今年,我在議會內提到,校園安全需要全民提供及供發 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
29946.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
29969.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
內地的食肥提升 教育和合作核心的教殊聯繫 同樣未能堅持現在我們教育局 今年這幾年來推動的教官退場的政策 規定教官到退休的時候就可以再預測久久 就是可以再勾勒幾年來 我們全國的教官人數已經減少四分之三 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
29975.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
29988.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
目前全國可能存償六個月的高官在高官大量推動之下,我們的校園安全,我們撐到這個專業的領域來支援這幾年外力學發生到學校和校安的問題另外一方面,我們學校的新生老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
29998.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
30004.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
人類和人群的群組,形成重大的這個隱憂這個過分成為我們固定有什麼方式可以來協助改觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
30009.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
30030.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
感謝委員關心我們的孩子在特赤裡面的學校的安全在這裡就是說因為高官退出學校這是當然一個國家制定的政策但是我們這裡要怎麼把這個校園的安全我們其實是有一個校安人員的一些轉換就是說不管是我們高官已經過一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
30032.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
30040.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
一些的訓練、一些的專業的真人可以回到學校去當校安人員包含在國中我們今年也開始因為我們知道國中生的孩子他也很活潑也很有氣勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
30046.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
30069.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
南邊同學之間有比較多的一些可能一些這個衝突或者等等的學務創新能力我們這邊事實上也不只是在高中這個階段我們對國中也開始跟地方有一個合作我們六十班以上也給這個校事人員給一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
30070.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
30088.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
行政人力的一些補助然後有一些如果他學校規模他不希望增加人手他是希望用副組長的一個方式我們也尊重地方給予地方的一些行政上的一些職務上的一個家庭但是我們現在這個狀況就是目前像我們婚姻館、縣立、高中、高官、臨屬已經歸零了 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
30095.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
30112.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
我們軍的高官的臨時服務是由教育部來支援現在如果地方要自行補充校安人力是地方自己要下去做我們報告其實才化法律尤其明年來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
30113.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
30120.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
他帝英的經濟會越來越多,當然我們搞不好可以繼續出國,我們的經濟但是...那真的柴化法、真的執行,這是一個問題帝英一定要先打大職業,我們玻璃經濟、中國的經濟,當然我們一定會來支持帝英,中央和帝英是合作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
30135.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
30150.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
另外當這個國中的城市,這兩年發生了很多校園的安全事件,還需要更多的專門的校安人員,醫院還有核心案來修正,這部分教育局也能協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
30152.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
30170.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
我們現在就是有在做這個事情有啦,謝謝啦,感謝郭廷豪我們消安人員也是我們第一線急需的一個人力啦可以讓地方政府更多工作啦要拜託我們教育部這裡專門來支持我們一定要讓地方政府來看怎麼做,讓我們的學校更安全讓孩子們可以更安心的學習是 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
30176.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
30180.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
這樣感謝我們國中 感謝議長在這裡要向議長報告一件事各種政策 如何達成基礎建設也是要做所以我們進展有很多 我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
30191.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
30203.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
地方關心的一些基礎建設,我們中央的官員,我們的國會,譬如說我們國土事務,我們教育部的國教事務,都有去跟我們工作局的,那些都有去看,交通局的都有去看過,那些都是持續要來做一個改善的一些基礎建設,在這裡可以拜託,因為可以比較快 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
30219.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
30222.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
給經費 讓我們地方可以建設更多那個婚姻館是我們的榮業大館 一切基礎建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
30228.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
30245.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
真真真好事,對我們農業的行善,以及尊貴運輸,真真都是大大的幫助在行政院一定站在這個角度,跟電影政府好好來配合是,這樣才怪託議長啦,一些基礎見識真真,那是林委員最需要的一些基礎見識,議長也知道婚姻關係都要大觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
30250.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
30254.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
農水路的建設,這是非常重要但是我們府民館,從過去到現在,通常起來只要要改善所有的農水路,需要要給更多的經費我知道說,這對我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
30265.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
30268.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
這個鄉鎮醫來說,對我們農業國來說也是一個很大的負擔我們是希望用健診室每一年,我們都固定的經費每一年都可以來講對最需要改善的緊急 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
30280.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
30300.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
要改善的國分 我們趕快改善就好這不是我們家的 也不是誰的 都是他們的訴求所以我們做回來 完成他們的訴求從優先的項目 需要改善的部分 大家委員及時好 這樣這個國分 希望我找我們相關單位 拜託他們要緊來跟我們合作好 感謝議長 感謝韓院長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
30309.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
30318.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
謝謝丁薛忠委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 教育部長備詢接下來我們請登記12號也是今天最後一位質詢的委員 劉書斌委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
30343.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
30346.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
有請卓院長再請卓院長備詢劉文豪 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
30357.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
30385.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
總議員長好今天我要質詢的主題是高校的國際生問題因為它是一個跨部會的問題涉及到的是國發會的少子化及在經濟部的產業人才需求還有內政部的強化人口及移民政策的規劃當然它的實現方向呢是涉及到要透過攬財育財跟留財的方式來進行那我們繼續往下看在招財的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
30387.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
30400.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
我們看到的是目前招收的國際生呢有兩大個類別第一個類別他是在國家的重點領域的5加2的系所包括的是智慧機械 亞洲矽谷 綠能科技生技醫療 國防跟新農業 循環經濟等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
30402.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
30424.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
重要的是透過新南向的培英計畫還有台灣獎學金來去強化我國的人才脈絡第二個部分是在製造業營造跟農業及長期照顧這四個領域中間的技術人才透過的是新南向產學合作專班或是新型的專班來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
30425.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
30454.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
但是這四個領域也跟我們的產業缺工是有看到有相關性的請問院長在這兩大領域人才當中你認為在國際生的招收上哪一個人才是優先的當然國家需要多方位的人才來引入但是如果說這兩邊我們現在製造業甚至在醫療各方面的人才欠缺在數字上是明顯可見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
30455.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
30471.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
所以你認為說是第二類的人才應該是我們優先要去吸收的那個外籍的國際的人才嘛對不對好那您知道我想要詢問的是說在已經去年113年為例的時候國際生的這個人數跟他們這兩類人才的比例您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
30473.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
30500.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
人數我可能還要再查一下好沒問題我先跟你講個數據等一下後面也呈現資料就是在去年113年當中有12.3萬的國際生到我們台灣來那這個比例我也不清楚等一下當然也許教育部長可以再回講但是我們為了要吸引國際生呢有了這些獎數學金獎數學金那在這個一到七列當中扣除到第七列就是一到六列當中呢總共花了去年5.73億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
30502.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
30504.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
總共有12.3萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
30525.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
30545.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
全部的學生全部的12.3萬但是這個5.73億的獎助學金下去大概就是1萬人能夠受惠而且我們看到的12.3萬人當中63.14%的比例是在新南向的國家新南向國家的一個特色是什麼他們收入比我們低 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
30547.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
30556.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
我們第一個情況大家就會覺得說這邊有拿到獎學金是這樣子可是另外的有11點多萬的人他們是不是有辦法生存請教院長來的比較多的國家應該是越南、印尼、馬來西亞現在看到這個數據這些人他們沒有獎數學金他們怎麼生存呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
30572.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
30599.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
跟委員報告部分是來自於我們這個僑委會在產息專班裡面他是有國發會跟業界出資來對進來技高所謂的這一些製造業基本基礎人力這個部分他有一些是有給生活津貼的但是有一些來我們這邊讀大學雖然他是新南向我們各大學去招生但是他事實上是自己副學會 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
30601.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
30620.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
就是說雖然我們有許多的班但是並不必然每一個班我們都給他生活費因為我們的半導體科技產業我們事實上是非常強的是一個國際的優勢請問一下半導體產業的比例是多少呢半導體這部分人數的學生比例是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
30621.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
30637.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
這個部分我想我會給委員更詳細的一些data但是剛才委員在說我們的經費所支出的並不是每一個都不是完全就對了那沒有問題我們繼續再往下看基本上高中那一個部分大概都是屬於這個產息專班這個是會給錢的那我們繼續往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
30642.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
30666.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
生活也許沒問題但是我繼續往下看的是這個資料當中也顯示出他的休退學的比例前幾年的話就是平均有5到8%那如果特別剛才院長有提到的越南跟馬來西亞前幾年都有將近10%的休退的比例那這種情況是不是請院長或是部長院長回答一下這邊為什麼造成這個情況 休退的比例這麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
30668.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
30692.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
這個要再細細分析我想有一些跟委員報告來自於因為當時我們在這個產息專班的時候有一些我們當然希望他進來就有A2的語言能力那有一些進來的時候他並沒有沒有以後學校裡邊希望他學華語可是一年或者一學期以後他沒有辦法達到我們這個地方很好所以他就大概學校就 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
30693.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
30719.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
就是說希望他有改變嘛我知道有改變那我就是尷尬可是現在我們再往下一頁看的是監察院國家人權委員會針對這部分就提出來的教育部當中的一個報告對他說呢因為在初期的時候境外招生宣傳透明部不足資格包括的是還有語言等等的審核把關不足財力也是有問題的這部分我想教育部的回覆你之後要特別給回應喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
30721.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
30732.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
跟委員報告確實我應該這麼講我雖然520還沒有上來之前我們也看到了一些來自於民間結合一些可能我們不希望的一些特定的人力的一個這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
30734.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
30753.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
這一個仲介的一個公司裡邊進來有一些學校所以我們在這一個部分也跟委員報告我在上個月已經把所有的技高有參加這個產系專班了所有的校長都來了我們也事實上在這兩個月不僅是技高包含技專校園全部都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
30756.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
30777.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
我知道你沒有在改變,但是這部分希望你到時候跟監察院或人權委員會都要做好好的報告我們現在也就希望說確保這些來自於國外的以東南亞的這些青年來到台灣接受教育有一個好的教育我知道你沒有在改變,但是我希望繼續還有一些問題要呈現來我現在進入到育才階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
30780.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
30796.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
因為在國際生的招生政策推廣當中呢有很炸的一個title是說打造台灣品牌的國際教育那請教院長院長以新南鄉專班為例要打造什麼樣的台灣品牌國際教育他的形象是什麼請院長回答台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
30801.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
30816.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
我們的環境包括我們的生產環境 社會環境應該由我們長處之所在比方說我們可以訓練更多的高科技人才更多的往產業方向去發展這也是台灣的一個精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
30817.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
30842.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
對 可是我剛才問的是新南向 你這邊講到高科技新南向部分可能就少少 並不是這個意味著那如果是學生的部分的話 特別想到說在學校的部分 他當學生或是當上課的時候還有實習 工廠這些部分他應該的時數的比例應該是多少 請院長您回答您覺得在一個這種新南向專班 你覺得合理的上課的時數跟實習的比例應該是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
30843.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
30859.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
他的他實習的時間是受到限制的這個我知道那這個數字我想我再詳細給大家報告好這部分齁這就是等一下剛才後來教育部當然也有一些相關回應的啊我們繼續往下看齁這邊也是同樣是找國家人權委員會裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
30861.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
30879.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
這個對於今年3月4號對境外生在台就學及勞動權益案的一個專案報告這邊就提到的是教育部在開設專班的初期是106年開始的時候未能夠建立相關的招生實習及公讀規範導致亂象百出把學生變成學工或是遭受勞動的這樣一個剝削 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
30881.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
30896.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
那我們繼續再往下看的時候後來的確這部分教育部在去年年底的時候有這樣的一個函說出來就是說對外國學生的參與跟校外實習的工讀這邊有一個規範出來就是說最多呢一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
30897.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
30919.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
一個星期不得遇40個小時那每天都不能超過8個小時這結束時間不能晚於10點可是如果這樣算算看以最多來看是40個小時除以一天8個小時那等於說5天了一週裡面的工作時數或上學時數5天都在這邊來講這樣子能夠保障到學生的授教權益嗎就是在實習的時間會偏長 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
30924.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
30949.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
因為時期偏長好 那這個地方我們看到這個報告是由監察院當初前一周禮拜前一之前去年的 今年做出的這個報告正當那 請問這個時候自己教育部有沒有做調查報告然後都是靠外部的監察院人權委會來做的這樣子的就是做出這樣的一個報告來去提醒行政院要做這個把學生變成學工了 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
30951.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
30974.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
這樣是很淒慘的喔 但我們如果再往下看 這邊部份部長有沒有要回應的如果你沒有 我再繼續再往下看喔 甚至還有這個情況是在哪裡啊還有出現到人口販賣 剝削 致用戶金 佣金等等護照扣留事件 影響我國人權生育啊那這部分 請問院長 你如果現在才知道這個情形 你有沒有什麼樣的要回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
30976.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
30988.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
對不起 我記得有一些僑外生的工作時數還不能到這麼長那平均時數是多少我們自己教育部行政院有做報告嗎 有做調查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
30990.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
31017.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
那就必須在他的時數的限制範圍內超過那這樣就違反規定但是我院長這個部分可能請教育部之後再做報告這個部分要到本席這邊來做報告但是我說影響我國人權所以院長你聽到這個訊息的時候是人權委會做的報告你有什麼樣的想法就是我們對於這些僑外生來到國內我們必須從他的生活照顧以及時數上面我們要更符合我們國內的規定才不會違反這些國際人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
31019.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
31036.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
對 很高興聽到院長有這樣子的一個自我的一個醒覺那當然我們希望說這個就會相當的改善尤其是我們再繼續看到育才的問題上面這個同樣的是去年的時候監察院的兩個監委他所做出來的報告是一個外籍生 越南的外籍生死在實習工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
31039.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
31053.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
這個非常的聳動齁不只是學生的部分工作實習可能超時還包括勞動權益都受到的影響那如果說不安全能夠吸引到國際生嗎這真的影響是很大的齁那院長您是第一次聽到這個訊息嗎我依稀記得這個當時勞動部應該有進行相關的勞動檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
31062.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
31083.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
勞動檢查這個部分我希望說勞動部這邊也要一起來做 教育部要做跨部會的處理那我們繼續再看到流產的部分國發會在111年的強化人口及移民政策當中他還指出到了2030年的時候我國僑外生他需要增加20萬人可是就目前我們看到這個數據上面顯示在106到113年 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
31087.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
31108.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
時間呢 我們看到它是有效聘僱的許可人次 是人次還不是真正人齁達到的是從三千多人一直到目前不到兩萬人七年時間不到兩萬人 可是國發會在一百一十年的時候的目標是說二零三零年等於說在六年之後要達到二十萬人請問這目的有目前可能達到嗎以目前現在這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
31109.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
31130.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
我們還要加強努力包括經濟部所提出的20萬的AI人才的訓練其中有一部分也是從橋外進來的橋外生所以我們認為引進外國的人力對台灣現在產業的需求是必要的所以我們要健全國內的各項的生活環境跟教學環境實習的時數也要受到國內法的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
31132.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
31141.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
謝謝 這個聽到院長你有這樣的一個感悟然後有這樣子對國內的 甚至對僑外生甚至是國際生的這種一個承諾我覺得是非常好的事情所以目標不需要改變 還是維持20萬應該可以達到 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
31144.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
31173.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
這是目標但是你剛才有提到說一些政策改善必須要進行的對不對那非常好那我們現在看看比較國內的國際性的日本跟韓國的國際生在比較上面他們在語言的國際化獎學金跟學生簽證跟打工上面還有就業的居留證的部分都有一些的對應的這樣的內容可是這黃色部分看起來都是比較優秀的部分在日本跟韓國部分都呈現的有些好的那我想請問一下院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
31175.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
31202.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
對照一下我們對日韓這一部分比較我們到底有沒有什麼可以學習之處你如果看到上面這個內容如果來到台灣因為台灣有比較好的製造環境我們有很多國際的大廠包括我們自己國家的這個科技大廠這是有吸引力的但是我們在語言方面一方面要他們融入一方面我們國內也要有國際性的語言來支撐這樣互相之間的學習才能夠更快 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
31202.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
31229.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
這邊我其實跟大家講的是在就業的部分學生簽證這邊打工時間都比較長就業的部分居留學的部分也是應該可以放鬆的如果事實上還適當國發會的人才的這樣的一個增補那最後我想要請卓院長要提到就是要希望獲得你的同意就是說國際上的政策執行中剛才我的質詢當中也提到在少子化重點產業需求跟強化人口還有移民政策的規劃當中其實都不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
31230.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
31256.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
對吧 剛才左院長你其實也呈現了很多需要改善的部分那我是不是也請教育部跟勞動部在一個月之內就國際性改善的這個內容跟他的這個時程向本期做一個口頭報告院長可以承諾嗎部長可以準備嗎可以 我想我們事實上現在就這樣做也跟委員報告如果我們這一波所有的技高有參加產息專班跟國際專班的這一個技高這個大專 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
31259.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
31260.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
大專校宴 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
31288.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
31308.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
抱怨會 我們教育及文化組諮詢已詢答完畢謝謝卓院長及相關部會所長列席答詢現在作以下決定下次會議進行交通組諮詢抱怨會 我們現在繼續處理副議案兩件以先後順序處理請議事人員宣讀第一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
31309.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
31326.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
本院台灣民眾黨黨團針對第八次會議報告事項第六、十四、六一、九六、一百、一百八十二案等六案提出覆議宣讀完畢現在做以下決定另定期處理請議事人員宣讀第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
31326.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
31344.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
本院國民黨黨團針對第八次會議報告事項第十一案及第九次會議報告事項第一百十七案自院會決定提出復議宣讀完畢現在做以下決定我們另定期處理報院會本次會議進行到此為止現在散會 |