| IVOD_ID |
166249 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166249 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-08T10:55:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-08T11:07:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e238918248e277b38af6cbfa178cd5b946ee6dd7c9e9cb52e205c0f991a2210e40c3ce8f2effcf9c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱志偉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:55:36 - 11:07:05 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：審查：
一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員郭國文等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。
三、本院委員蔡易餘等20人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
四、本院委員陳亭妃等19人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。
(第四案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) (詢答及處理)
【12月8日及10日二天一次會】） |
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好 謝謝請農業部陳部長恭喜部長 謝謝委員好部長 今天針對第7條有四個文版本 但是有兩個方向這個第一個方向是蟹鳳跟郭國文的版本就是提高比例 政府出資 |
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42.609 |
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增加0.5就是农民跟政府比例是1比1.5是这样会增加大概15.5亿对那这个部分也是过来一个方式它造成的效果就是说我们是增加预算但是它每年以后假如30年之后农民可以在30年之后可以每个月大概多领比限制多领7000块左右 |
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如果按照限制不改的話大概30年之後大概每個月可以領3萬8如果按照這個1比1.5如果修正通過他每個月可以多領7千塊沒有錯嗎4萬545431限制多7千塊左右對好如果按照第二個方向我們調整政府跟農民的負擔比例農民市政府6就是40% 60% |
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那正午出12% 農民出8%不管是4比6或者3比73比7的話就是農民出6% 正午出14%以4比6這個負擔比來看正午增加多少 6.2億 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
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對 6.2億好 那你如果變成3比7的話政府出7成然後農民負擔這個3成的話大概增加10億左右嗎差不多好 差不多10億好 以這個方式來看30年之後保障還是一樣是維持這個3萬8是但是呢 這個過程中啊它每年大概可以少繳1萬到1萬5我這樣算沒有錯嗎差不多 |
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我覺得這兩種方式各有利弊一方面這個農民可以有更大的誘因如果按照第二個版本比例如果農民負擔比例降低到三成政府出七成的話還每個月繳的金額很少會增加誘因那剩下22萬人有資格現在投保參加的只有11萬只有50%對不對 |
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那已經實行四年了我們目標是涵蓋力要越高越好 對不對來保障這個農民退休的權益嘛我們現在是雙軌制除了老農今天之外這個最重要的這個農退這個部分最重要嘛所以我們要怎麼樣讓這個投保率參加的這個農民能夠增加你要訂到一個目標值比如說五年之後你要提升到這個15萬 16萬甚至到七成 |
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200.99 |
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那要达到这个目标你的所用的途径你的approach是什么 |
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我看你們好像這兩種版本這兩種方式你們都覺得好像會跟其他的這個產業跟其他的這個退休的這個體系來比較會有些不公平我不這麼認為我覺得農民是相對弱勢相對弱勢政府對他們照顧越多或者更多本來就是應該的所以你看就整體政府的預算來看 |
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233.775 |
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你如果用1比1.5 政府多出0.5 這才增加15.5億那你如果把這個農民跟政府負擔把它調整成3比7 也增加10億3比7的話 當初因為沒有加入 最主要原因是因為他的經濟負擔不起假設政府出資到七成 每個月繳的金額已經大幅降低了 他有沒有意願 他會有意願 |
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263.197 |
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279.406 |
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所以我個人覺得啦這個不管是第一個途徑或第二個途徑我覺得這個農業部都應該要考慮的不是說以現有的這個制度就僵固化在那邊那我認為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
281.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
306.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
今天排這個法案審查固然重要我們希望說立法院如果達成共識給農業部更大的支持我們希望說這個經費這個預算對農業部大概不是問題那我們是要說服說所有全體國人相對的弱勢是農民對農民多一點的照顧福利是應當的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
308.484 |
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333.553 |
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所以我個人覺得 你如果要嘛要把這個政府提交的比例 把1比1變成1比1.5我覺得乾脆1比21比2啦 1比2你才增加30億 對不對好 如果你要調整政府跟農民負擔比例現在4比6 我認為還太過保守 我覺得3比7 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
337.004 |
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358.824 |
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這樣子農民才有意願才有能力去參加這個制度我們當初這個修法我們立法通過就是為了讓這個所有農民都可以參加嘛可是14年才只有50%就代表問題出在哪裡就誘因不夠所以從這兩個方向我想請教一下陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
360.072 |
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373.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我跟委員報告就是這兩個版本最大的差異一個是1比1.5的部分是對於未來他的退休以後的領的會比較多我了解我剛剛不是講過了嗎那我的重點就是說我們希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
375.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
391.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
保障不變的話政府多繳一點我們現在初步的送到行政院的規劃是60比40但是我們會另外設計一個誘因就是說你只要參加農民退休除禁的部分的時候相對的農業的相關的補助我可以加碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
391.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
410.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那因為現在的青農他的收入不是很穩定你講到重點了就是加碼還要加上彈性也就是說單方面的加碼你要保持一個彈性的制度比如說有重農 實際重農但是初期他無力提繳你給他一個遞延期或者農業生產他有週期 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
411.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
439.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
他如果欠收的時候你是不是可以讓他遞延提繳或者是這個豐年補繳不要說一欠收年他就可以遞延提繳那豐收年再補繳解決他有現金流的問題我覺得委員講這個彈性的部分我們倒是可以去設計就是說像有時候遇到天災的時候他沒辦法繳的時候我是不是可以延後繳那這個部分現在是用六個月我們現在是六個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
440.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
458.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
6個月補繳的方式那未來我們會看實際的狀況那我剛才講的一個重點就是退休儲金你如果參加退休儲金我所有的其他的農業的補助我可以加碼的話其實對農民是更有誘因的因為那個部分的一個加碼讓他減少的負擔會比較低一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
460.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
476.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以这两个途径我觉得应该说是你们农业部要仔细去思考而且不是说只是说说而已真的是你送到院的版本是四十六十嘛对不对就监测这个大概是蔡玉玉的版本嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
478.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
492.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
是我們先送到行政院的後來委員要陸陸續續所以你原先送到行政院就是40、60那我建議是不是可以再前進一點因為物價你要繳到30年30年之後他才領3萬8所以30年之後物價是怎麼變化這個很難去預估 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
499.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
505.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
對不對 你現在這個10年前股價還才1萬多少這個3年前股價才1萬3現在已經3萬7 2萬7了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
510.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
533.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以這個物價是非常高 變化非常大所以我覺得應該要超前部署的話是不是可以一次就到位掉30 70我跟您報告因為我們這次調整除了退休儲金以外我們對老農今天也做了一些調整那這個部分其實加起來然後再加上我們剛才說的就是你有參加退休儲金我的補助有加碼的部分那個加碼的額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
535.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
547.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
會對農民有更多的誘因我們希望說委員能夠支持這樣的一個方式如果這兩個制度加起來老農今天在你做一些調整你這個相關的機制調整調整的方向是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
549.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
565.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
老農津貼老農津貼基本上分三個部分第一個部分是額度的部分現在是四年一次嘛那我們希望因為四年可能像CBI可能變成八九去了像今年到現在為止已經五點多了嘛所以我們希望說四年之中如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
566.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
587.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
兩年的過程中我們檢視一次如果說他CPI超過某個百分比我們就啟動調整但是四年做起來不變這第一個第二個部分就是排富的部分土地公告限值到目前為止過去一直沒有調整已經累積已經增加了64.78%然後我們一次會把它補到足然後同時我也一直跟行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
616.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
建议就是说农民的房子他是辛苦一辈子才去买的他不容易去做变现他当然有生活所以我们希望说能够还有一个更好的一个设计的一个机制让这个排付条款能够再拉高一点你说是按照CPI调整或者按照这个COV就是土地公告限制好这些制度什么时候可以上路我们也已经送到行政院去了也跟院长报告过然后我们现在在合订之后就可以实施等没有等立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
618.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
644.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
通過院會送到立法沒有 行政院通過院會送到立法院來的話就可以進到排審還是要修法對 現在已經修完了只是還沒有經過立法沒有 行政院的院會通過還要送到立法院嘛然後再送到立法院 對所以這兩個方向彌補這兩個方向補足之後未來30年之後這兩個制度加起來你預估農民退休一個月可以領多少錢大概3萬8左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
647.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
661.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
現在還是3萬8嗎調整之後喔老農今天又調了喔老農今天又調了可能會到4萬去了喔30年後如果勞退呢勞退才3萬3而已農退如果再調呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
662.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
688.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因為勞退的部分我們並沒有去了解他未來他的CPI不是 我說農退 農退你如果農退如果再調的話農退調還有那個老農經驗也調的話那相關的30年後大概會將近4萬4萬左右啦現在算起來是3萬8嘛那未來可能會增加到4萬左右好 謝謝謝謝我們邱志偉委員 |