| IVOD_ID |
16622 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16622 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-24T08:31:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-24T12:37:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:05:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc730853615cfad2726c0396a52a667796bd9360bdedb085224fa7ff32c81c10e25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查
（一）委員羅智強等25人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案。
二、審查委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。
三、審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十九條及第四百五十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
四、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十一條條文修正草案」案。
【僅進行詢答】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:16 - 12:37:00 |
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14605.22534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2711].end |
14609.00534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2712].speaker |
SPEAKER_03 |
| transcript.pyannote[2712].start |
14609.47784375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2712].end |
14612.85284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2713].speaker |
SPEAKER_03 |
| transcript.pyannote[2713].start |
14613.29159375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2713].end |
14616.17721875 |
| transcript.pyannote[2714].speaker |
SPEAKER_03 |
| transcript.pyannote[2714].start |
14616.63284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2714].end |
14627.88846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[2715].speaker |
SPEAKER_03 |
| transcript.pyannote[2715].start |
14630.94284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2715].end |
14640.78096875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1868.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1874.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 現在開始開會進行報告事項 宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1875.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1902.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期司法及法治委員會第十次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年四月二十三日星期三上午九十至下午一十五分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員陳佩玉委員等十二人列席委員葉元之委員等十一人列席官員司法院副秘書長王梅英等人主席吳兆吉委員宗憲報告事項一宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1904.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1929.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、權序部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、行政院人事行政總署、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、內政部、中央選舉委員會、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就選舉罷免程序中如何落實公務人員和政務官人員、司法人員、選務人員恪守行政中立 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1929.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1930.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們先請祖密補充報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1956.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1982.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
報告委員會出席委員11人 組法定人數好 謝謝請問各位就上次的會議事務有錯誤會議囉沒有的話會議事務確定接著我們介紹到常委員我們首先介紹羅志強委員王逸川委員那接著我們介紹應邀列席官員市法院副秘書長 王梅英副秘書長法務部常務次長 黃某信常務次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1985.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1986.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好那我們接著再介紹到場陳瑛委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1990.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2019.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
其未介紹的列席代表請參議院名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄本次議程討論四項共計四案分別為並案審查委員羅志強等25人凝聚刑訴通法第116條之二條文修正草案等二案及審查委員陳培儀等16人凝聚刑訴通法第101條之一條文修正草案等案那本日進行提案說明報告及詢答現在進行提案說明及報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2020.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2032.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那我們請先進行提案說明提案委員每位發言時間3分鐘那我們先請提案人羅志強委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2039.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2061.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
主席 在場委員還有我們列席的官員 大家早安根據刑事訴訟法第116條之二的規定法院許可停止羈押時經審酌人權保障及公共利益之均衡維護認為有必要者得定相當期間要求被告交付護照 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2062.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2086.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
旅行文件或者通知主管機關不予核發護照旅行文件但實務上會出現一個漏洞就是說當法院一開始沒有要求被告交付護照時後續就只能要求主管機關不核發護照無法依法註銷那只能透過行政函文的方式由司法機關向外交部來請求廢止 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2090.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2106.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
註銷棄保潛逃的犯的護照那不只是法源薄弱也曠日廢死那即使是依照護照條例的規定來進行行政註銷目前適用範圍也只限持照人在境外才能發函 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2107.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2118.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
如果持照人在境內其實就無法依照護照條例來註銷這也造成一些被告有機可乘可以棄保潛逃到境外去規避司法的制裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2119.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2140.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那這樣的漏洞已經成為部分被告逃逸到境外的重要途徑對我們的司法違性跟社會治安都造成了威脅那根據媒體揭露的刑事局資訊目前在境外的棄保潛逃犯可能在8000人左右相當的多那這也是影響司法公正所以我才提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2141.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2170.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
修法要賦予法院主動通知主管機關協請註銷逃逸被告的護照跟旅行文件的權利那這樣的措施可以填補現在的治安漏洞來加強司法威信那我是最早提出這個修法的委員也和謝一鳳委員是這兩個提案的委員雖然提案的委員不多但我還是感謝法務部司法院警政署在這次報告裡都有肯定這個修法方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2171.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2186.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以我呼籲不分黨派不分行政立法機關我們一起來支持完成這個修法那盡快逐條審查看能不能在這個會起來拼三讀完成立法為我們司法體系跟社會治安提供更強有力的保障以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2187.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2210.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好謝謝羅志強委員那因為今天有四個提案一個是一個提案是國民黨委員提案那另外三個提案是民進黨的委員提案但是因為三位都沒有來所以我這邊先簡單的說明一下這個提案的內容我們今天的四個提案主要是各個不管是藍綠白委員大家的提案那我們進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2211.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2230.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
依照提案時間順序就直接進行處理那有兩個案子沒有提出來一個是雙偵查處體因為這個以前就曾經有人提過而且目前在實務上面的爭議過大所以我們這部分還在討論第二個是有關警察職任的規範那這個是陳廷飛委員所提的但是目前實務上 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2232.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2259.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
因為他是希望修在刑事訴訟法那跟目前實務上有很大差距那這個部分我們有就是說請陳委員是否如果說真的想排的話那可能看能不能協調周瑞雄委員去排這個提案那另外三個案子一個是陳培余委員所提的兒少性剝削條例因為再犯率高他認為有針列為預防羈押原因的必要性還有第三個案子陳寧菲委員所提到的檢疫判決的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2260.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2273.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他說檢疫判決制度原則上沒有應為詢問他認為這個部分是不是有進行到修法的必要所以因為有很多案子其實檢疫判決處刑他沒有開庭就直接法官就下判決結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2275.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2290.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那這部分有沒有必要修改這是今天的提案內容那第四個案子是許智雄委員的提案他是認為說在特定情況下的非常上述是否由得提起改為應提起或對於該類的非常上述 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2290.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2311.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
案件有規定暫停暫時停止刑罰執行的必要性的相關修法所以以上因為因為今天只有第一案的羅委員有到場說明那另外三案的提案人陳佩瑜陳婷菲許智傑目前沒有到所以本席在這邊替他們三位先簡單的說明一下他們提案的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2315.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2324.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那我們現在接著就進行機關代表的報告那每位發言的時間為三分鐘我們先請司法院副秘書長王梅英報告那請法務部常務次長黃謀信接著報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2332.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2348.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席各位委員各位先進大家早安那今天貴委員會病案審查刑事訴訟法修正草案本院奉邀前來列席報告那支報告如下敬請指教第一個是病案審查委員羅志強等25人 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2350.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2365.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
及委員謝依鳳等16人拟據的刑訴116-2條文的修正案那委員的提案呢立法意旨和護照條例第25條的規範目的是相同的所以本院竟表同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2366.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2391.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第二點 審查委員陳培於等16人擬拒的刑訴101條之一條文修正案委員提案是考量兒少性剝削防治條例處罰的目的還有犯罪手段確實有反覆實行的高度蓋然性所以有預防性羈押的必要本院竟表同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2392.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2397.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第三 審查委員陳廷飛等16人擬拒的刑訴449條及451之1條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2403.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2429.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
檢疫程序處理違罪程序對於司法資源有效分配它是具有實益的那在這個條文修正案中它限縮了檢疫程序的適用範疇這會涉及到了法院人力的分配資源的運用及一般刑訴程序的事實處理那這將影響人民對於司法效能的期待那本院是建議不予修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2431.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2459.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
個別條文的那個部分呢意見刑訴449第二項呢還有關於這個被告意見的表示部分他本來就已經可以透過同法第一項於必要時詢問被告來補足了那449條第三項呢現行是以宣告型來區分輕微案件作為適用檢疫程序的要件那這也沒有違反設計的那個目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2459.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2479.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那再下來451-1的條文呢那從法制面觀察當事人意識表示核制之後要撤回意識表示有一定的限制這時候好像沒有再去區分更細節的區分的必要這建議左處另外審查委員許智傑等22人拟據了刑訴441條修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2481.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2510.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
非常上訴制度呢它主要是在糾正裁判的錯誤統一法令的適用啊那它不在於具體個案的救濟草案呢是以具體個案救濟有利與否來當作提起非常上訴制度的要件那這個是不是和非常上訴的功能相符合本院見請再著那以上報告敬請各位委員先進指教謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2510.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2512.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好謝謝副秘書長那接著我們請黃謀信長賜報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2519.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2546.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生今天奉邀貴人會代表本部列席並被質詢報告如下有關於第一案羅志強等25人以及第二案謝鳳等16委員領據刑訴法1.6條之二條件修正長案部分關於GRT代主部分新增主管機關得以註銷的護照跟旅行文件規定這兩部分本部都競表同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2547.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2565.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
另外有關於這個謝議委員等16人所凝聚的部分是否條文要另外加一個通知主管機關廢止並註銷因為廢止跟註銷它兩個在法律上性質不同那恐導致未來在解釋適用上產生疑議這部分在未來主條討論的時候本部再行補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2566.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2580.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那另外有關第二案陳培宇委員等16人所擬聚的101條之一預防性羈押修正的部分那有關加入預防性羈押有關於這個兒少細胞血防制條例36條第一項第二項第三項38條第一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2583.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2608.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
等這個犯罪的部分本部也競表同意那本部也希望有關於這個兒少性迫切條例的第4條第5條有關意圖營利的未遂犯還有第38條第3項的意圖營利以及未遂犯還有我們新增的刑法有關性隱私不適應項的部分都是同樣屬於性隱相的犯罪這部分是否一併要納入預防性羈押的部分也請大院審酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2609.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2638.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
第三案有關於這個陳理非委員16人所擬具的449條及451條之一條人修正部分那這部分呢增加了許多程序上的規定使原來的檢疫程序這個慢慢的這個接近於這個通常審計通常的程序不僅這個不符合我們原來的制度的設計目的反而可能增加未來法院的負擔偏離了這個訴訟經濟跟資源有效分配的改革初衷 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2638.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2654.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以這個而且現行法對於檢疫判決處刑已經有相關的被告的權益保障以及救濟制度那是否有修正的必要提醒大院再行審訟另外有關於許智源委員等22人所擬聚的刑處441條修正的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2655.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2675.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那本不時認為草案把規定成應提起非常上訴跟非常上訴制度的目的相抵觸這部分見請再酌至於草案部分應暫時停止執行的部分呢這部分是不是有暫時停止執行是不是有憲法上重大的原則跟人權上保障做必要而跟其他的違背法令必須要做相 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2676.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2701.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
區別的待遇這部分是不是有違法律的平等原則跟法的安定性這部分也請大院進行審酌 以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝市長那其餘提出書面報告機關有無口頭補充那沒有的話機關代表報告完畢相關書面內容請各位參閱並列入公報記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2703.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2720.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
提案說明及報告機關已經進行完畢現在進行詢答本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時的延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長那我們現在請登記第一位王逸川委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2735.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2749.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請這個移民署外交部跟法務部麻煩移民署外交部及法務部上台 謝謝委員好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2751.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2777.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
先請教移民署的同仁我們這個國人出國如果這一個出境的過程中系統顯示這一位不能出國那你們通常會是譬如說接到司法機關的要求上面有註明這個人為什麼不能出國是這樣的狀況嗎大部分是這樣的狀況那這一個我再請教一下法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2780.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2808.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
司法機關包括法院或者是各地的檢察署認為相關的人要限制他出境限制他出境程序上你們就會通知移民署說這個人限制他出境不管用什麼方式就通知移民署請問你通知他以後他持有中華民國護照他就不能出境了 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2809.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2810.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那跟他有沒有這本護照會有關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2815.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2844.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
就是說他的護照沒有被廢止也沒有被註銷嘛可是移民署那一關你已經通知他我們是對人 這個特定人進行限制出境對對 這個人限制出境嘛那他還是持有中華民國的護照對 他有沒有持有中華民國護照這個人已經被限制出境啦他持有中華民國護照他當然也會被限制出境啦對那現在這個羅志強委員跟謝易鳳委員兩位的提案實務上有沒有可能說這個你們沒有通知移民署 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2845.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2870.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
可是呢 卻通知了外交部 註銷他的護照呃 這個是兩個不同的處分啊我知道 現在的狀況 現在的問題就是說這兩個可以並行的對 兩個並行 看起來是雙保險可是 理論上是 只要通知移民署只要通知移民署 不管他還有什麼護照通知移民署 這個人就不能出國了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2872.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2882.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
對那不會有一種情形是你沒有通知移民署但是呢你通知了外交部請外交部去廢止或什麼註銷他的護照嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2884.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2913.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
報告委員 它是兩個不同的羈押的替代處分嘛那有可能啦但現實上當檢察官或法官它有可能兩個羈押替代處分都並行但有沒有可能它只做註銷而沒有限制它出境在這個實務上它就產生了有可能嗎因為個案上它的檢察官或法官判斷我們沒有辦法預測啦因為它是不同的羈押的替代處分嘛所以就是說也有可能是它的這個護照已經被廢止了 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2914.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2941.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
最後也被註銷了因為你們提到廢紙跟註銷是兩件事它被廢紙也被註銷了可是移民署那邊沒有被限制出境當然這涉及到外交部因為我們註銷他的護照這是要外交部跟移民署之間的行政上的聯繫我們註銷是對他的護照註銷我們限制出境我們直接講完就通知移民署他就出不去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2942.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2966.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
所以移民署才會是他能不能出去的關鍵嗎他最後把關的好那第二就是說這個把這一個這個國人他的這個護照給註銷了那全世界會不會知道我們現在因為因為我們不是Interpol的這個這個國際刑警組織的會員就不會有全世界知道這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2967.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2981.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
譬如說他假設這個人他這個在這個司法機關還沒通知移民署之前他就拿了中華民國護照出境跑去日本了 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2982.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2985.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那跑去日本呢 這個司法機關說 哎呀 早去日本啦這個人現在要給他通緝啦然後呢 這個是已經跑了嘛 對不對那這個外交部啊 就廢止他的護照 註銷他的護照可是他還可以拿著這本護照前往澳洲 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2999.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3024.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
但是他出 他在那個國家 他所在地的國家 因為我們已經註銷他的護照他離境或幹嘛 他會要護照啊 那個國家就會知道他已經沒有護照啦他護照已經被中華民國註銷啦教授 我剛問你說我們把他註銷了以後那個國家會知道 那有人應該提問是全世界會不會知道他前往的國家 他入境日本的那個因為他護照已經被中華民國註銷 他離境的時候當然就會知道了 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3024.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3053.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
他離境日本的時候會知道那他如果在你註銷之前他就離開日本他就跑去澳洲了那又回到下一個國家下一個國家他同樣要離境的時候也會知道下一個國家就是澳洲第三個國家他也會知道他的護照被註銷了所以他要再前往第四個國家的時候他就會沒有護照了他就出不去了這就涉及到他所在地的國家要做怎麼樣的行政上的移民上的處理好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3055.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3070.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那外交部有提到說如果羅委員跟謝一鳳委員等人的提案如果通過以後你們要修改這個護照條例請問修的內容大概會是什麼因為我看你們護照條例的第25條25條的內容是廢紙並註銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3077.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3097.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那這個我看法務部給的意見說廢紙並註銷這樣的文字並不是很妥適可是我看護照條例的內容就是先有一段是廢紙後面才有一段叫並註銷那這個文字上會怎麼樣來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3099 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3126.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
跟委員報告那如果說在修正的版本是採取委員剛才所講的這樣的一個版本通過之後呢那實務上可能會發生一種情況是說當事人他可能沒有申請護照又或者他所持的這個護照呢已逾越了效期所以草案裡面所提到的廢紙並註銷那這部分在執行上面的話就變成說他沒有可以註銷的課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3128.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3150.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那這邊的話我們的領事事務局會去延期就是說以目前實務的做法而言的話那可能文字上要去做一些調整就把並改成或這樣的一個文字上的修正可是你們25條就是已經是廢止原護照之處分並註銷該護照25條原來的現在的護照條例是這邊的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3159.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3187.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
跟委員報告就是說因為實務上的確是有可能發生過所持的護照是預約效期所以用病這個字眼的話可能跟目前實務上的做法我們可能會再去做一個通盤的一個檢討所以如果這一個案子如果通過的話就護照條例的第25條裡頭的那些文字啊你們應該會去做我們會再去做整個通盤的檢討去因應目前實務上的做法去做一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3188.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3207.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
正確的或是說比較妥適的那這一部分就再跟法務部或司法院大家就文字上因為現在看起來你們那個貨或者是病有一些實務執行上可能會有一些爭議最後我請教一個問題就是說如果司法機關最後誤會一場 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3212.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3238.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
誤會一場 我把你的護照給廢紙 又把你註銷了最後誤會一場 沒事那他怎麼樣再回覆他的護照跟我們報告就是說因為目前我們廢紙或是註銷護照按護照條例都是經過司法機關或者是軍法機關的一個通知那實務上現行的做法的話大部分的當事人會提起一個溯源的一個救濟程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3238.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3256.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那在救濟的程序階段我們會再去審視原來通知領事事務局然後去註銷或是廢止護照的原機關有沒有改變原來的處分如果沒有的話那我們這邊就不會去做更動那並且會建議如果當事人他覺得說這是一個誤會異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3257.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3285.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那他的正伴應該是跟原來註銷或是廢紙護照的機關也就是司法機關去提起救濟那這個部分如果原來的司法機關認為說他護照是誤會註銷或是廢紙護照的室友是誤為一場的話那他會再通知我們那我們會把原來的處分給撤銷掉那他是要重新申請不用 他撤銷掉的話他護照或者是被廢紙的那處分那他護照可能在海外被你們沒收啦是 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3286.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3315.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那他就要重新申請了是那這部分就算他自己去負擔了是吧這部分這可以考量一下是就是說因為是司法機關通知嘛你們就把他這個註銷了嘛對那後來後來這個審完了就決定說這個其實沒有沒有那沒有的話這個當事人後面的這個程序請你們在後面的這個處理上也要納入考量好 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3317.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3317.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3319.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3345.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
因為這可能是涉及到行政處分的救濟啦那因為我們通知他那個外交部就會做一個行政處分嘛那對這行政處分的救濟事實上如果到後來發生委員所講的那就是我們行政程序法上他就是處分後後來發生一個新事實新證據的話這個時候我們可以去撤銷原來的行政處分所以這是對行政處分救濟的這個制度上設計我們現行法的行政程序法事實上有他的相關就有這樣的規定了好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3350.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3368.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
謝謝王委員 那我們下一位請陳培裕委員發言好 謝謝主席 那有請法務部還有司法院 謝謝麻煩法務部司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3369.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3385.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
委員早安好早安那我想我們就直接切入我們辦公室提案的修法那事實上在相關的兒少案件兒少性影像案件當中其實社會上普遍越來越擔心那確實在全世界跟台灣的數字都是逐年上升的所以呢當時在報導者裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3387.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3401.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這個檢察官他們就有一個建議說法越修越重但不一定好用例如說如果我們把持有者的罰則定在三年那法官在審視的法律要件可能就會越來越嚴格不一定判得下去所以當時我們看到報導中的建議是說應該回歸到修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3406.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3424.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
讓檢警在辦案的時候阻力比較小比較可以起到嚇阻作用因此我們辦公室也就提出修法那當然這個修法我們也跟很多第一線的實務工作者討論所以今天也要聽聽你們的意見在今天的提案當中我們非常謝謝法務部跟司法院給予我們的修法意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3425.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3445.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那基本上你們給的修法意見大致上跟我們聽到第一線實務工作者的意見是相近的那所以這一次我們的提案修法就是放在兒少性剝削條例當中我們希望把嫌疑重大有事實足認為有反覆實行同一犯罪之餘而有羈押之必要者的行為人 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3446.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3468.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
讓他們可以有被羈押的法源所以在我們原本的提案文字當中我沒有把兒少性剝削條例第36條第4項意圖營利犯罪第5項未遂犯規定放到提案裡面可是我看到法務部給我們相關建議所以我想應該是有機會納入討論空間這邊可不可以請法務部幫我們說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3469.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3488.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
各位委員報告我們提案中已經說明不只那個意圖犯跟未遂犯甚至有關於刑法上面也有相關的同樣是有關於性影像犯罪的部分我們認為這些犯罪在性質上它都有可能有反覆實施同一犯罪質疑所以這部分我們也建議一併的來考量是否一併的列入我們的這個預防性羈押的事由 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3488.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3509.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好謝謝你們的建議喔好那我們來看下一張下一張一樣是同樣的條文那目前我們辦公室的提案版本我只放了兒少性剝削條例第38條第一項可是如同法務部剛剛提醒38條第三項意圖營利犯罪第四項未遂犯的規定未遂犯雖然未達所謂的計稅程度但行為人已經著手 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3510.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3526.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那如果不是因為偶發的因素沒有辦法完成犯罪其實我們仍然認為它具有高度危險性跟再犯的可能所以尤其是意圖引力的部分我們甚至認為它可能會涉及所謂的組織犯罪系統性犯罪尤其是現在的網路平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3527.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3543.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
一旦跟這個相關結合我們認為對社會對兒少的危害性就會更高那這邊我剛提到的部分我希望後續如果真的有機會我們進行逐條審查我們自己會提出修正動議但我也想要聽一下司法院或者是你們認為在這個階段你們可以針對我們這個建議跟討論做出什麼樣的具體準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3547.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3550.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
第一個司法院立場是贊同修法除了剛才所說的36條第4項第5項這個應該要徵修之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3563.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3577.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那38條他同樣的第二項那個意圖散布而持有還有第三項這個意圖引起犯罪第四項的這個未遂犯我們也是建議應該也都有同樣的那個相同的那個立法的理由是 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3579.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3602.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
還有在報告裡面我們看到法務部有提醒我們刑法319之一到之四妨礙性隱私還有不實性隱向的部分其實衛福部也有跟我們討論到這個部分我認為未來如果有機會應該可以一起討論也許在修法的時候我們後續可以做一起努力這個時候我想要先謝謝你們所有提供的正面建議後續我們再一起努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3602.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3626.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那接下來我要談到為什麼這次修法我們會做這些事情事實上這幾年新型態的兒少性剝削影像犯罪條例的樣態不只是數量上升它樣態也變得越來越多元我們先來看統計的相關通報件數在美國2023年兒童性剝削影像通報件數2018年的兩倍在英國的研究中全世界大概有12.6%的兒童是文字或影像的網路兒少性剝削受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3631.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3655.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
在前兩天台灣也有相關數字喔也是說在很多網路的事件當中確實跟影像性剝削有關我們來看一下衛福部的數字衛福部給我們的數字呢到昨天為止到去年已經突破三千件而且我要說這還是有報案有通報的我們相信有更多是不敢告訴家長不敢告訴老師而沒有通報的所以在這個報導當中我也想要問喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3656.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3670.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
面對兒童性剝削案件的管轄權跟羈押條件認定的問題那在修法完成之前因為我們都知道修法比較慢在修法完成之前司法院這邊有沒有什麼機制可以強化內部的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3674.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3692.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
謝謝委員提那個垂尋這個問題因為確實網路犯罪它的特性跟實體像打架或發生一個什麼就是這種是不一樣的那如果說是採傳統的這一種對於管轄認定一定要僵化在那個犯罪行為地或者是那個行為人駐居所的話這個確實會很僵化 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3694.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3712.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那如果說採一個最廣的就只要就是說你上電腦去連結這就是犯罪行為地的話就取得管轄權的話這個有很多就是疑問的部分這會變成好像全世界每個地方都會是那個就好像又過於寬鬆對是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3714.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3730.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那所以就是說怎麼樣去調整就是說在傳統的認定之外對於設置網頁或者是電子郵件的主機或者是傳輸資料這些主機的地方甚至於有進一步的實際交易的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3731.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3749.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
是不是都把他認定成那個就是是有管轄的因素我覺得這都可以考慮的那我們那個司法院呢我們一定會積極的就是說研議就是說看是開諮詢會議或者是透過委託案那但是必須時效上我們要盡快然後之後再跟那個法官們宣達 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3750.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3767.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
以上好 謝謝司法院非常正向的回應確實如同您剛剛說的樣態真的非常非常多元而且可能我們還在請專家學者做研究的所有這些科技犯案的形態又與時俱進所以那可能不是我們可以防範但我想我們有這個正向的態度是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3768.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3787.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
也會對於第一線檢調人員會讓他們更有信心那延續我們剛剛對兒少事件的討論這幾年我們在協助非常多兒少校園事件不管是性侵、霸凌或者是所謂體育相關教練的不當對待其實很多時候是來自於結構性的惡意或者是不作為但我們就會討論到可能有國賠的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3790.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3808.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
可是事實上我們來看一下國家賠償法第八條說賠償請求權自請求權人知有損害時間期因為兩年之間沒有行使就會消滅自損害發生時期欲五年者一同也就是說其實大部分的被害人或者是家長他們身邊的監護人 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3810.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3833.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
通常在處理案件的當下已經焦頭爛額了他們可能甚至不知道有這個國賠的可能更不要講這個時效我們來看一下南投劉玉成校長這個案子他在任教的34年期間他涉嫌對多名女學生有性侵害性騷擾的行為被害者受理人數高達將近29人這只是至少可能還有些孩子不敢出面說 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3834.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3845.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那我們會發現這個受害者的困境在國賠法這邊其實我覺得有很多時候是錯過國賠的實現所以我們也很想問看看在這個部分我們有沒有機會進行進一步的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3849.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3873.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
謝謝那個除了委員所說這個國家賠償之外就是那個犯罪被害人他還有可能可以取得這個犯罪被害那個補償金那司法院對於就是犯罪被害人的權益其實都相當重視所以我們有一個表單就是那個就是在一開庭的時候通知的時候都會附隨去很詳細的告訴被害人這個是司法院這邊的法 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3874.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3875.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
這個有機會在多久以內完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3894.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3918.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
應該這個禮拜這個馬上 我們回去馬上可以做了好 然後當然是要布達下去了好 這個非常非常的重要所以 那我想就這個部分我們再來看一下所以我們還要談的是剛國配的部分如果可以這樣解決我們事先提醒所謂的被害人跟他們的家庭讓他們有相關專業的協助那所以這邊我想你剛剛的回應很快那我們就期待你們後續趕快給我們相關的進度好 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3919.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3945.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那再來那範保法輻射證的部分相關機制我們也希望後續可以開啟一併的討論那最後還剩下一點點時間我想要講一下關於首長會議的部分我知道其實你們都會開所謂司法首長會議那根據上個上一次我有質詢關於竹北虐童案相關的人棄保潛逃這個事情有沒有機會在司法首長會議當中我們先不打相關的可能性或是行政措施上可以怎麼樣改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3949.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3969.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那個根果原報告確實就是說在法院審理當中就是發生這個虐童的被告棄保潛逃這個司法院這個是絕無旁貸就是我們一定要那個深自檢討那有關於這個那個部分呢就是說還是要解釋一下說在那個偵查中 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3971.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3996.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
檢察官申請羈押跟就是說偵查結束之後呢檢察官他做了一個決定就是起訴之後然後這個人法院移到法院來法院職權的去做一個決定就是有關於這個羈押處分這兩個是不太一樣那過去因為法律也沒有規定說要有那個通知檢察官的這一個規定沒有相關的法院規範所以我其實是那我們現在就是說我們會立刻做那個檢討就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3999.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4024.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
讓他更周延更完善那個制度就是一個是那個通知那一個就是說其他還有就是之後的那一些那個送達這些我們都會那個完備然後在各種那個場合首長會議這個是一個那一個是我們日前我們已經把相關的這些立稿那通函就是發布到各法院去就是這些相關的改善措施啊所以已經發下去了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4025.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4046.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
對 因為其實我知道你們很積極要來跟我們說明跟討論這件事情可以怎麼樣亡羊補牢把它補救回來所以我們也看到你們非常積極的態度所以我想這邊就是再次跟您確認我們希望後續不管是需要法規範的法源依據或者是透過行政命令我們就可以去確保這件事情我認為看到這個亡羊補牢的事情我們都非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4047.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4057.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
感謝你們至少我們在這件事情上非常積極的去做這個事情那也希望後續如果有相關進度報告再給我們辦公室一個相關的回覆好嗎好謝謝委員好謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝陳委員那下一位我們請黃國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4080.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4105.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩有請司法院副秘書長 法務部次長兩位好 今天所提的刑事訴訟法相關的修正其中針對441條的部分 我必須要老實說立法規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4106.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4134.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
檢查總長在一個非常特殊的情況下應啊應啊提起非常上訴而且只有在這種情況下要應啊停止刑罰的執行我們先搞清楚喔判刑確定了以後才有非常上訴的問題非常上訴是為了要統一法律見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4135.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4161.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
給檢察總長相關的職權可以審酌在立法例上兩位有沒有看過在一個特定的狀況判決確定以後檢察總長應提起非常上訴而且還只有在這種特定的狀況應停止刑罰的執行兩位有看過這種立法嗎報告沒有 這還現行的法不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4162.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4190.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
法務部有看過嗎?當然沒有,因為他是一個非常究極制度他叫例外啦,不是說他不是在究極個案他是在一個法律的統一解釋所以有沒有去了解這個修法草案從哪裡來的?你不知道嘛我跟你講從哪裡來的我從上一次在立法院的時候啊我就開始在追蹤啊中資 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4191.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4215.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
在炒作我們大同股票的事情這事情我追了非常非常久那當然有一個人叫做任國隆後來被通緝跑了中國人另外一個是台商鄭文藝這個在政界非常有名非常有名長袖善舞終於 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4216.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4240.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
判刑確定去年夏天的時候判刑確定去年我開始就發現整個過程錯不可聞我為什麼說錯不可聞去年四月的時候我看到有民進黨的立委提案在變更政交法還有企業併購法的犯罪構成要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4241.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4251.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
而且變更的犯罪構則要件基本上就是鄭文藝在訴訟當中所提出來的辯詞我一看就知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4253.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4276.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
一個修債政交法一個修債企業併購法系出同門啦系出同門啦所以我去年四月的時候看到這一種幫不孝的奸商跟中國人勾結的個案式的修法我毫不客氣啊我在院會裡面我就提案程序退回連討論的價值都沒有啊幫中資 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4281.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4309.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
來台灣炒股票判刑確定對不起我修正還在審判進行當中變更犯罪構成要件想要用刑法重新重新的原則我是完全無法忍受我去年四月我就直接在院會提案退回程序委員會審都不准審計謀失敗了以後去年七月判刑確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4311.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4321.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
判刑確定了以後今天這個提案又跑出來了去年十月的時候提的幫他創造剛剛我跟兩位所說的獨步全球從來沒看過非常上述是這樣用的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4332.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4360.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
不僅檢查總長應當他提起非常上述啊而且一提起非常上述啊應停止刑罰的執行人就要放出來啊我把這個法案啊丟給一些法界的人看大家看完了以後是嘆為觀止啊那要不要直接提案修法說應判他沒有罪這樣就好了我今天敢在這邊公開講 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4362.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4389.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我就是看不下去啊哪裡來的膽子啊幫這種進行個案式的修法臭不可聞啊到時候討論的時候啊我希望提案的兩個委員來司法法制委員會說清楚講明白啊這到底是怎麼回事啊司法院 法務部 贊不贊成這個修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4391.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4407.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
委員報告我們的立場在報告中講得很清楚就是反對這個修法法務部我們報告也寫得非常清楚反對這個法的修法立場站穩立場站穩這件事情我一定盯到尾我清楚地講我明確地我不僅明確地反對台灣社會要搞清楚這種臭不可聞的法案到底是從哪裡出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4424.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4436.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我講的話我負責啦去看啦鄭文藝判刑確定了以後就要主張什麼原判決來不及適用我們新修正的刑事訴訟法增訂的211條之一來進行審判程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4442.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4459.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
審判進行當中法律有變更沒有新適用新的程序導致判刑確定所以檢察總長應幫他提起非常上述量身打造 斧鑿斑斑我一看就知道了騙得了外行人騙不了法律人主管機關站穩腳步第二個我要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4464.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4490.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
又是另外一個奇怪的案子中文字中文字現在跑了啦兩邊大家互踢皮球該追究的責任去追究之前我就講過了中文字這個詐騙金融犯關係很好關係很好造成社會上面一堆人的傷害造成的傷害我說啊之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4492.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4520.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
有一個詐騙資本市場的案子在那個詐騙資本市場的案子裡面啊法院都看不下去啊檢察官起訴的全部都是下面的手下自己的妹妹下面的手下首腦中文字根本沒起訴在判決裡面白紙黑字寫啊說首腦是中文字啊但是我們沒有辦法判為什麼沒辦法判檢察官沒起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4522.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4542.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我那時候人不在立法院但我看到這件事情我非常火大我那時候直接用公益揭秘吹哨者保護協會我提了告發我告發了以後我一直等我從去年開始問我告發的案子到哪裡去了睡著了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4543.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4566.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
今年我繼續問上次法務部部長在這邊的時候我有質詢過嘛部長說他會去了解結果我昨天啊終於收到了終於收到起訴書了我終於收到起訴書了終於把中文字提起公訴了但我現在就看不懂我看完起訴書裡面的證據 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4570.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4599.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我看完了以後是有哪些證據是前案偵查的時候沒有查出來的我完全看不出來有哪些證據是前案偵查沒有查出來的我公開講啦這種錯誤可聞的案子絕對把手腦放了拖了半天更荒謬的是什麼根本沒有什麼新的偵查作為啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4601.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4630.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
全部的證據就在本來的卷裡面啊當初做不起訴處分連法院都看不下去啊來看一下我紅色框框框起來案經台灣公益皆必及缺少者保護協會及台灣高等法院告發偵辦所以還不是只有我告發連高等法院都看不下去直接告發這麼簡單的案子沒有新的偵查作為可以拖兩年多餒 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4631.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4660.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
可以拖兩年多欸拖兩年多更好笑的是什麼更好笑的是等到中文字跑了才起訴中文字現在人跑啦跑了才起訴他來請教一下法務部部長是人跑了知道人跑了才要起訴嗎各位報告那具體這個戈瀚新北地監署檢察官他在這兩年內做了哪些偵查的作為老實講我們是不清楚的他必須要看整個相關的卷證 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4663.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4691.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我公開這樣講啦就是因為社會上面大家挫折感非常深我為什麼說挫折感非常深每一次都說尊重司法獨立個案偵查我們大家都尊重啊大家都尊重啊問題是什麼尊重司法獨立個案偵查並不代表出現這種臭不可聞的案子社會公眾不能監督啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4692.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4716.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
在搞什麼東西啊所有的犯罪事實在本來見證都有要不然高院的法官怎麼會直指他就是犯罪手拿拖了兩年多人跑了現在才起訴這樣子的偵辦作為請教一下法務部次長你覺得值得社會大眾尊重嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4718.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4747.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
各位報告當然社會大眾期待甲官能夠進出甄解這個相關的個案啦當然本部在相關的行政管考上面也會要求有相關的行政管考甲官要進出我講兩件事齁第一件事情本來卷證裡面的資料就已經直指他是犯罪首腦那要不然高院審判的時候那法官膽子那麼大喔敢直接在判決書裡面寫首腦是中文字如果卷證資料裡面沒有的話法官敢這樣講喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4751.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4768.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
結果上一個案子不起訴處分把他放了等到我告發拖兩年多中文字人跑了然後才起訴這樣子的偵辦作為值得社會大眾尊敬嗎值得大家尊重嗎我只問簡單的這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4773.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4786.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
當然跟委員報告 我跟委員報告那社會期待是檢察官對相關的狀況就能夠盡速的癥結嘛那這個個案 他個案上他為什麼拖這麼久當然他有他一定有他的原因啦那我們行政管考上我們有要求檢察官要在一定期限內癥結這個個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4789.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4808.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我這樣說好了啦我願意啊給法務部時間我也願意給高檢署時間因為我知道在權責上法務部沒有辦法直接管道地檢嘛你們大概就把意見反映給高度檢署的檢察長嘛由高檢署的檢察長自己去處理嘛我這樣說明有沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4809.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4838.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我給高檢署充分的時間因為下一次可以遇到台灣高等檢察署檢察長的時候應該是下個會期審預算的時候準備好 準備好我也希望回去次長轉告台灣高檢署的檢察長準備好這件事情 臭不可聞啦要給台灣社會一個交代要不然公平正義在哪裡這種有權有勢有民進黨撐腰的就可以這樣搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4844.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4847.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
好 謝謝黃委員 下一位我們請沈發慧委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4870.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4894.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
主席我們請王副秘書長副秘書長法務部要嗎?先請副秘書長副秘書長,謝謝委員早安副秘書長早安,我們今天回到我們今天的所列議程我們今天總共刑事訴訟法有四個法條的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4895.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4917.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那這個我都看了這個我們司法院包括法務部的這個相關的報告書面報告大概了解說了解了我們司法院跟法務部對這四個法條的修法的態度那這裡面有一些部分我可能就要跟這個我們請法務部也這個次長一起上來好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4918.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4936.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
有一些部分可能要跟我們來做一些討論來第一個我們就一條一條來針對這個刑事訴訟法第116條第二項之二第一項第六款的修正這個主要是在這個增訂有關這個這個羈押替代處分裡面有關這個這個護照文件的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4944.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4964.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
相關的這個條件,加以這個他的拘束力以後來強化所以在過去原本是法院的通知主管機關就是就是不予合法護照那我是不是這個我看到這個提案人的提案說明,他就提到說過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4966.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4976.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
過去這個我們現在目前台灣有八萬名的通緝犯登記在案其中出境紀錄超過八千人這個狀況是這樣的描述是確實的嗎這樣的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4984.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4998.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
通緝犯人數現在本部大概是偵查執行中大概1萬多人偵查中大概3萬多人當然還有審判中大概約1萬人左右這個加起來大概6萬人左右至於就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4999.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5019.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
潛逃海外八千的部分他事實上因為潛逃海外原因很多他也許是拿雙重褲罩出去的他也許是非法出境的所以事實上就這個潛逃在外的人數事實上沒有辦法估計啦所以這個報告大概是警政署他預估的一個數字倒是不是個確確的數字那這個過去齁我想這個修法齁基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5020.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5038.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這個我看我看這個我們法務部跟司法院報告大概都基本上都支持這樣子的修法也是認為說把這個原本是是法院的通知主管機關不以核發那現在這個這個把它增列說的這個通知主管機關這個與廢紙並註銷廢紙並註銷那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5045.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5069.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個過去的狀況好像以我的了解就是我們要他交出護照的時候他會說他護照遺失了或者他的護照遺失了找不到了或者是他的護照已經嚴重毀損了還是說他根本沒有護照他說這樣沒有交但是事實上轉身就拿著護照就出國了那這裡面這個修法就是為了防堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5070.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5093.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
類似像這樣狀況但是以現在的狀況而言他可能不只是修法的問題啊我們現在目前我們這個到底是怎麼樣運作的我們現行的實務運作我們法院是怎麼樣通知主管機關我們怎麼通知外交部說這個他的你不應該不予核發他護照我們是用這個韓文通知呢還是我們有一個系統有跟外交部有一個系統就是我我我這邊這邊這邊說給他給他這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5098.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5106.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
據保這個這個替代性的羈押替代性處分之後我們怎麼樣通知這個外交部現在現行實務運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5107.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5129.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
是韓文通知嗎?還是我們有沒有建設一個系統,就是說我可以即時的目前應該是用韓文啦,他目前應該是沒有一個資訊上的一個嫁接的一個串聯對,我們沒有一個資訊上嫁接的這個系統,我們用韓文的方式啦常常是在這個韓文的,中間的這個韓文的時間,他有一個時間差嘛,那個時間差造成這個細胞潛逃的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5131.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5154.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
但是這個在實務上也許可以透過我們限制出境我們也是透過航運另外一個傳真的方式現實的迅速的傳到相關的機關現在實務上是這樣做嗎?限制出境的時候是這樣做我的意思是說如果現在現行的做法這樣子它就是有漏洞那即使我們今天修法修了 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5155.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5164.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們要通知外交部要廢止並且註銷他的護照那一樣如果有這樣子一樣用韓文的方式他一樣有這樣的時間差在 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5168.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5190.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那如果檢察官他並同做限制出境,我們就直接傳真給陸出境運輸,他就出不去啦那為什麼現在會可以繫保險,他為什麼可以持護照他如果他已經被限制出境的話,這個人基本上他是沒法出境,除非他有非法出境對,非法出境,我現在不談非法出境啦,我們現在這個是在防堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5193.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5214.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
今天的修法是在防堵,過去是說我們不予核發,就是說我不能說遺失了然後你現在不能夠再核發他一本護照但是現在我們修法之後說我們就可以把他護照廢止並註銷這個情況修法之後如果說我們目前食物運作的方式沒有改變他的漏洞依然在啊,是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5216.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5218.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我看到你們的報告裡面提到廢止並註銷你們有特別提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5230.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5245.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
你們的用語是說他會把這個混淆行政處分跟行政作業是法律性質市長你這部分你有看到嗎有那你是不是說明這我看不太懂就是說我知道註銷是一個行政作業廢紙是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5249.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5270.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
行政處分廢紙行政處分廢紙它合法護照這個行為基本上是外交部的一個行政處分對我知道註銷它基本上是一個登記一個實施的行為對它是一個行政作業但是護照條例的第25條護照條例第25條它原本的用語它就是說持照人有前兩況情況之下因語廢紙是處分並註銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5279.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5297.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
並註銷該護照他並不會混淆啊只是我們希望他做兩個動作我們希望他做一個廢止行政處分的動作跟一個行政作業必須並行你們這樣子提在這個書面意見這樣提的意思是說你們應該把並註銷不用提我們只要提廢止就好註銷讓外交部自己去 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5298.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5316.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
各位各位報告護照條例二十五條他是廢紙處分並註銷那是基本上是外交部他所做的行政處分那現在我們一六之二我們如果我們加一個檢察機關或法院通知他廢紙的話會變成他的行政處分是依照我們檢察官或法院所下的命令所做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5317.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5333.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
對那未來在行政就地上會產生一些混淆我們擔心這樣我們希望行政處分就由外交部自己職權去發動而不是透過一個多階段的行政處分我們給他個order他才按照我們的命令去做處分所以像你這樣的說法是要把這樣子的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5335.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5362.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
條件列到護照條例裡面去嗎我們希望就是說就是說不應該你的意思是說不用在刑事訴訟法裡面修因為你在刑事訴訟法裡面修就是由檢察官做我們擔心未來行政上救濟上會產生行政處分它會變成多階段的行政處分對會誕生這樣多階段的行政處分其實對未來救濟的話制度的話會產生一些混淆所以我們希望由外交部自己做一個行政處分所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5363.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5376.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以這樣子的修法在刑事訴訟法裡面修法你覺得這樣子修是不好的我們怕有這個疑慮所以未來可以討論我們比較贊成就是我們希望能夠註銷但是由外交部自己去發動他的行政處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5383.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5395.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
註銷是行政作業啊行政處分是廢紙 我們要求他廢紙對 外交部自己做一個廢紙的行政處分而不是因為我們要他做廢紙的行政處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5397.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5416.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
所以你認為這樣子的修法是不妥的因為他們會變成多階段的行政處分我們不希望透過一個多階段的行政處分去處理這個事情好我大概了解了這樣我大概就知道你們所講的這句話的意思了好那接下來你看我這邊有四條一條就已經花掉我所有的時間了 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5417.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5424.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
接下來我們看這個第101條之一這個大概我們就是規範這個有關預防性羈押的原因這個增列這個兒少 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5428.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5455.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這個兒少性剝削防治法的這個條例啦齁那這個部分我大概有幾個跟大概這個我們法務部製法院看法類似的這個我們都肯定支持啦齁但第一個在這個立法理由裡面用媒體報導當作立法理由這個倒是我個人是認為說這個我們如果立法要真的要通過的話立法理由應該要做修改啦齁這沒有說用媒體報導做立法理由的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5455.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5464.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
再來就是就是你們也提到了在這個檢疫在這個他相同的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5467.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5490.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
在鵝哨跟性剝削條例裡面他有其他除了今天除了他這個修法所列的之外這個36條第4他還有其他的這些相關的其他樣態的犯罪他並沒有列入啦他不只是這個鵝哨性剝削防治條例啦他刑法裡面有其他的這些相關的他也都沒有列入啦那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5492.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5517.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這部分我是覺得我們因為我們今天大概只有尋答我們今天不會進行審理我是希望說我法務部是不是就這個部分我們下次當我們開始進行審理的時候能夠提出我們法務部對於就相關的其他的這些這個同樣性剝削條例兒少性剝削條例裡面的其他的樣態跟這刑法的其他的條件都能夠納入那最後再一點時間就是有關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5520.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5546.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
檢疫輸送程序449條這部分齁我最大的疑問齁可能到時候要請你們說明是這個這個我看這個委員的提案齁這個我仔細的比對了之後跟你們110年1月5號你們行政院跟司法院會嫌送進立法院我們已經在立法院在110年2月26號完成一讀的條文是一模一樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5548.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5570.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
一模一樣應該是一字不差啦一模一樣的那當初你們會前送進來讓立法院做了一讀了那現在委員提相同文...那因為借期不連續所以現在委員又提相同的完全一樣的文字進來結果我看司法院我看法務部我們的這個書面意見全部都不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5571.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5596.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
全部都不是說不贊成啦,說請再審酌啦你們的用語是請再審酌那這個就這個部分可能你們到時候我們審查的時候你們要說明清楚為什麼在110年的時候你們送進來的文字現在一模一樣的文字進來你們就說這個有疑慮請再審酌當初是你們請立法院函請立法院來修正的現在你們又說又變成有疑慮了 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5599.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5618.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
加債就算他變大就算他定價沒升過不然定價升過你現在所有的這些理由現在都已經法律通過了這部分在到時候審理的時候我們希望你們能夠就這個部分能夠講清楚以上好謝謝好謝謝沈委員那我們下一位請王洪威委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5627.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5633.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
謝謝主席我請司法院 今天是副秘書長還有法務部 今天是次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5643.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5662.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我們今天討論刑事訴訟法其中主要一個原因就是有一些潛逃不管是棄保潛逃或者在入獄前的潛逃但是我們之前有一些這些重大的案件比如說中文誌或者是之前的諸國龍我們都在這裡有質詢而且都說會 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5667.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5696.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
有一些精進改善的措施對不對這個事情不是今天才發生是吧有沒有精進改善有沒有請問一下來副秘書長司法院部分有沒有精進改善報告委員這個部分司法院確實做了很多檢討雖然說我的問題就是有關於這些潛逃的或者是交保潛逃法院的部分院方有做精進改善對不對是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5697.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5720.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
法務部有沒有做經濟改善?法治面基本上修法比較緩慢實務上我們已經發函好幾次函給我們所屬的檢察機關未來就這個強制處分的實施我們要特別的修法院所以我的意思就是說在我們立法院還有社會高度重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5721.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5745.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我想當然而司法院跟法務部應該不會再繼續的怠惰下去嘛怎麼樣 剩下來就怎麼樣經濟改善好 可是啊就在前兩天發生的是在新竹的孽童案知道嗎 知道這個案子嗎知道這個案子齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5746.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5771.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以啊 我說沒有最扯 只有更扯在新竹發生的虐童案這個他棄保潛逃 300萬交保棄保潛逃然後發生之後看到我們的檢方跟我們的地院 大家互推皮球責任都不在我院方說 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5773.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5796.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我這個讓他交保我已經有媒體報導啦我有做成筆錄啦你們都應該知道因為有媒體報導也做成筆錄那檢方說沒有啊你法院開庭竟然沒有通知檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5797.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5821.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
竟然沒有通知檢察官到庭也沒有讓檢察官來表達意見啊進行裁定 這個虐童的嫌犯葉展浩就以300萬元交保還附加限制住居 還要跟派出所報到所以檢方說的振振有詞院方說的理直氣壯 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5824.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5830.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
責任都不在自己可是人咧?人咧?跑掉了所以我就不懂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5834.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5859.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我們在立法院開了那麼多次的專案報告有這麼多的委員在質詢有這麼多的委員在關心包含本席在內都說會精進改善結果這個案子扯不扯它無關中大經濟犯罪它無關政治性的它就是一個一般老百姓非常關心的一個虐童案人跑掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5864.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5879.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
然後竟然都說責任不在自己好你們都是各式檢方和這個法院的長官好請問一下我先請先請我們院方來說好了司法院這個責任在誰你們不要告訴我沒有去了解這個案情喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5880.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5884.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個法官有沒有問題他沒有通知檢察官到庭然後只是以說已經有媒體報導了 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5906.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5906.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
法官沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5935.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5963.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
不是你的意思是法官沒有錯我要跟那個委員講的是說他有他的那個成因就是說法律他因為檢察官其實他自己也知道他這時候人人今天要開庭就是說決定這個人要不要羈押那所以我就問你嘛我現在就問你你說法官有沒有錯嘛在這個案件上法官有沒有錯嘛整個制度性的就是說這個部分制度錯人沒有錯我們就是說可能就是說每個法院所以你講不出法官有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5964.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5970.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
他們不夠那個嚴謹所以我們現在也整個把整套那個程序SOP好所以法官沒有疏失沒有疏失有沒有疏失嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5976.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5999.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
委員那個分成兩層一個就是說他核心的他怎麼做決定的這個判斷我給你很多時間說明我也要同樣給我們法務部說明來請問一下法務部次長這個事件檢察官有沒有問題在檢察官他是羈押中送法院的所以在這被告送到法院之後就由法院來決定這個被告是否繼續羈押 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6000.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6025.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
就訴訟制度上就法官就檢察官來講他這樣當然就法院有所決定之後他來做救濟但這個案檢察官他沒有被通知要到場立庭那事後他也沒有收到這個不押沒有繼續接押的裁定所以法律上他是這個沒有錯不是有沒有錯法律上他不知道清楚地檢署說因為沒有收到裁定書他沒有辦法提起抗告 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6026.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6050.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
他說而且都沒有通知他們到庭所以請問一下檢察官有沒有錯那原則上法這個裁定對外宣示他也可能對外生效但是你必須要送達檢察官才知道你裁定的理由才能夠提起槓桿所以以你對你作為檢察官的長官你認為檢察官沒有錯我們檢察官他要對個案就計他基本上要有裁定看到了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6052.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6073.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
不只是新竹地檢署或者新竹這個地院 兩邊推皮球如果我從司法院到這個法務部法務部沒有辦法說出檢察官有錯司法院也說法官沒有錯 按照制度就是這樣走那到底錯的是誰 錯的是誰呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6076.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6101.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
倒霉的是被虐待的兒童嗎?倒霉的是家長?倒霉的是受害人嗎?這個案子到底出現什麼樣的問題?我剛剛講說我們每次對一些重大積極犯罪我們非常生氣我們認為在裡面一定有貓膩這個我不曉得有沒有貓膩啦這個案子我不曉得有沒有貓膩但它活生生的就出現在我們的眼前 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6103.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6120.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
一個虐童案 300萬交保他就跑掉了所以來 再來剩一些時間你們要怎麼樣怎麼 我在說你們一定有精進的方式啊我們也想當然爾啊想當然爾你們會有精進然後現在又告訴我制度出錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6122.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6140.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
來先請法務部你們要怎麼 像這個案子該怎麼辦跟委員報告 我剛也跟委員報告了就是說這幾個重大案件脫逃之後我們要求警察官在施行公訴的過程當中他對強制處分 對法官強制處分的行使我們要強力的進行他算不算重大案件 這個新竹的劣童案 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6140.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6157.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
其實不管重不重大啦假官在實行公訴的時候對法官強制處分權的行使其實我們進行公訴代表人的責任去督促法院適當的行使他的強制處分權我們發函要求訴處假官必須要這麼做好 來 司法院這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6158.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6185.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
你們要怎麼精進那個過往有關於一審程序我們是尊重檢察官他要不要到那現在我們就是有通令就是說請那個各法院就是這種程序一定還是要正式那個通知那個檢察官所以一定要通知檢察官到庭嘛不要有機會再大家互踢皮球是吧是好現在我要求法部跟司法院針對這個新竹市的虐童案的細胞潛逃提出報告給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6187.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6206.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
司法法治委員會然後你們該不該做出懲處也提出來沒有道理啊沒有道理大家都說沒有錯然後就出現這樣的一個七寶潛逃讓我們社會大眾無法接受如果今天一個虐童案可以如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6208.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6227.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
重大經濟犯罪你逃掉了連虐童案你都讓他逃掉了然後都告訴我們我們通通沒有錯老師說我認為這是檢驗雙方的怠惰不把這個案子當回事嘛今天如果是你的孩子被虐待呢你會這樣對待嗎我認為就是兩方都有怠惰不要推給制度制度是死的人是活的 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6236.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6260.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
所以在這邊要求 這個主席我要求我們的司法院跟法務部 針對這個案子提出報告 還有提出懲處的報告這事情不能不了了之最後我們是懲罰制度嗎懲罰一個冷冰冰的這些文字嗎請 對我們 請 多久可以提出來那再麻煩法務部司法院多一招多久可以提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6261.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6273.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
依照那個委員的要求提出相關的報告跟懲處那請問要多久兩週內可以嗎一個月一個月啊那麼久啊兩週可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6276.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6293.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
因為不可能是法務部直接下來調查我們要透過台高檢疫調查它一個行政流程是不是一個月一個月好我要具體的不要最後又給我看到通通推給制度好不好好謝謝再麻煩一個月內能提出好謝謝下一位我們請翁曉琳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6307.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6310.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
有請王副秘書長還有次長麻煩次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6314.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6343.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
委員早安 是 王副秘書長還有次長我想剛剛前面一些委員 懷抱漢應該是昨天都有一些委員有問到有關於虐童案的那個犯罪嫌疑人他棄保潛逃的問題剛剛王宏威委員其實也說了很多本席今天其實本來也要講這個議題但是因為剛剛王宏威委員其實也已經請你們要對這個事情要好好的嚴加處理然後甚至要去追究 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6344.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6364.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
相關承辦法官的責任因為剛剛聽了副秘書長的說明似乎是法官在做相關裁定決定的時候中間可能出了一些有疏失至少您剛剛的說法是不嚴謹不嚴謹的話那代表可能他也要負擔一些行政責任那麼就這個部分的話那我認為說不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6368.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6396.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
司法院或是法務部其實未來在整個橫向的聯繫上面一定要多加強因為已經太多的案例然後讓大家這個社會觀感很不好為什麼這麼重大的一些案子然後這個犯罪嫌疑人就棄保險潛逃了然後最後呢聽兩位的說法就是都是怪罪於因為制度 現行的法律不夠完善但是過去其實司法院跟法務部也常常 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6397.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6426.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
會自己頒布很多的行政指導的原則函式或是作業方式然後請法官跟檢察官這裡都要配合處理那為什麼在這些事情上面卻沒有積極的作為那本席是感到很遺憾那麼希望就是你們能夠深刻的檢討那本席在這邊也要再講一下就是113年其實監察委員林怡蓉她有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6429.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6439.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
還有去法務部到行政院去進行相關的考察 那麼那個時候呢其實就有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6443.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6470.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
在進行考察的過程當中其實就針對氣保潛逃的問題然後提出七大重點改善項目我想法務部這邊應該很清楚那其中呢像是第六點跟第七點那我認為這部分的話是法務部應該要趕快做檢討那麼甚至司法院跟法務部有沒有積極推動氣保潛逃罪的這個制定當然我們現在今天看起來就要討論了那麼事實上不僅是 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6472.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6489.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個相關的罪則要盡速的制定那麼同時在這個法律還沒有通過之前像施行細則以及這個作業方式其實都要做我想請教法務部你們在這個監委考察之後你們內部有做一些檢討嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6492.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6519.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
各位報告那這個相關的改善措施譬如說科技監控的部分開案量的部分那如同我們上一次的報告我們開案量現在已經從原來的前一年的每年30件現在提升到每年97件所以開案量已經大幅的增加那至於這個有罪羈押制度這涉及到我們跟司法院相關法律見解的不一樣是不是有違反無罪推定原則的問題這還要進行相關的寫上事實上這個法案它是比較爭議性有罪就羈押制度所以這法制面的修正還要進行相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6519.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6535.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
但是你們現在有進行過相關的討論嗎 跟司法院事實上我們早就提出來過了只是大家對這個 老實講對這個條文它有一些見解上的歧異這個條文就通過了另外有關於這個第七點的這個查緝平台部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6535.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6565.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那我們現在查緝集團我們現在已經在整合在一個界面上面上面有各種四種平台的整合讓民眾或者是要使用的予以查詢這個我們也做到了所以相關的這個改善部分我們其實已經做相關的改善措施是那請問王副秘書長你們就這一點你們自己內部有在進行檢討嗎跟司法院跟法務部的就第六點還是對就第五點跟第六點呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6566.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6585.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
你們有在開會討論嗎我先說有關於那個防逃的那個部分從那個去年以來其實司法院開過幾次那個大型會議就是增加法官他們賠利他們有關於就是這個敏感度防逃這個敏感度那一方面就是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6586.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6601.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
如果說不羈押的話目前科控確實是最有效的那個手段因為目前使用科控被告還沒有一個那個逃跑的那所以我們也讓那個法官真正了解說這個實際上這個科控它怎麼是運作的上個科控不是中文字就逃跑了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6601.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6624.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
沒有 他是沒有苛控中文字幕就是就是你們這中間的橫向聯繫就出了問題嗎那個是法官他不去下那個處分讓他苛控那所以我們也鼓勵法官就是說在有那個必要的時候多使用這個苛控那他要了解的話就要對這整個那個制度就是說那個了解還有優化那個制度那這是防逃那個部分那另外有關於就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6625.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6645.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
好 那沒關係 因為本席的這個諮詢時間有限我還有其他問題要問那我希望就是說兩個單位應該要積極的溝通協調看如何是強化這個棄保潛逃的問題好 那接下來我要問一個就是也是日前的新聞報載大家知道有180名的台灣籍的詐騙嫌疑人在柬埔寨 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6646.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6671.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
遭到逮捕沒有經過我國政府的同意以及之前就分了三批遣送到這個大陸去受審那這當然不僅凸顯出我國在第三國的司法協調上面的困境更讓海峽兩岸的共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議的效能看起來是失靈的而且也受到空前的這個質疑那麼我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6672.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6694.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
當時這個兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議它最重要的精神就在於說雙方要本持著互惠互助保護人民的權益為原則來處理跨境犯罪的案件可是呢我們看到這個狀況其實在近些年來到底法務部在司法互助在跟兩岸司法互助上面你們有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6695.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6724.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
更更取得更好的成效還是說根本就這是停滯停滯是屬於停滯的階段沒有任何的成果我首先想請教次長你們知不知道這一批180位嫌犯的名單各位報告這個其實在整個過程當中法務部跟外交部都有在積極的想要把這180個是不是可以解送到所以你們是知道這一份名單的這個具體名單知不知道那我們目前沒有辦法掌握但這個事件我們從頭到尾都是掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6725.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6739.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這80個既定名單180位對對對我倒是不知道我們有沒有掌握但這個事件從頭到尾本部跟外交部跟警政署都是從頭到尾掌握的所以你們跟柬埔寨的溝通過程當中他們是完全 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6741.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6761.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
這個完全不理不睬然後就直接將這180位嫌疑犯移送到中國大陸去各位報告事實上本部跟警政組透過外交部外交部事後也發布新聞稿就是說他有相關窮盡的努力希望把這些國人把他解送回台灣來進行相關的偵審程序那你們法務部在中間扮演什麼角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6763.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6787.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我們在法務部,法務部他也許是透過法務秘書也許透過駐外的移民秘書相關去進行相關的實質上的外交干涉但正式的外交途徑還是要透過外交部去做相關的進行干涉目前外交部的能力我很懷疑他們到底有沒有這樣的一個能力可以去跟柬埔寨那裡做溝通協調那麼好,那現在人到了中國大陸那裡去了那麼我想請問這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6790.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6816.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
次長您知不知道就是目前在兩岸司法互助的這個情況之下那麼截至目前為止有多少位大陸移送回台灣的罪犯有多少人各位報告這兩岸按照兩岸共打跟司法互助協議我們進行相關的所謂司法互助其實送達的部分甚至完全沒有受影響非常非常多調查舉證相方也進行了非常多倒是人員遣返的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6817.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6840.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
的確是這幾年來他人身遣返的數字他有下降那基本上是個案上的遣返他沒有辦到通盤性的遣返其實按照兩岸共打協議基本上這個查了相關的資料我感到很遺憾的就是說大家看看從110年然後到113年我們罪犯接回來的人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6842.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6848.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
是零就是這三年來罪犯人數是零110年當時說從98年到110年總共大概差不多15年的時間我們總共接回來19位那從110年到113年接回來的人數還是19位累計喔好了我們下一頁來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6861.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6881.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
所以呢可以看得出來就是這110年從110年到113年這三年來我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪司法互助協議的執行成效是非常非常糟糕連兩岸的在詐欺罪的合作破獲建樹這三年也只有三岸在跟過去比其實差別很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6882.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6908.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以這個成效的部分我剛才跟委員報告就人員遣返的確是比較少但司法互助不是只有這個包括委員剛才有提到送達調查取證這個相關的司法處境現在進行的也是非常的頻繁人員遣返不定他涉及到一個雙方互相的一個大家互惠他基本上他今天不遣返我們也沒有辦法叫他願意遣返但人員遣返的確這幾年來他是人數變少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6909.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6936.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
是我想因為這個部分當然也涉及到就是兩岸的這個刑事制度那麼從我們的角度來講我們當然還是希望台灣人能夠回到台灣來接受相關的法律制裁然後要服刑等等那這個部分的話的確是要多加強那麼我也有看到就是你們近幾年來你們編的兩岸司法互助的預算大概就是千萬大概就是上千萬可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6938.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6963.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
看不出來有什麼具體的成效而且是每況愈下我覺得這個問題也很嚴重這當然跟現在賴政府從民進黨政府執政以來跟對岸的關係在各方面幾乎都已經是降到冰點了都已經是這個兩邊都不交流了連這個司法互助共同打擊犯罪的部分也都停滯不前這個問題是很嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6966.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6991.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
而且更何況我們的外交也沒有辦法處理相關的問題那在國外的一些犯罪的人全部都移送到中國大陸去我覺得法務部就這方面還是應該要有更積極的作為你看我們現在人員遣返我們對大陸提出了這個要求356個人然後陸方只遣返了10位那麼陸方對我們說提出3位我們遣返1位 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6992.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6999.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
可是我們提出的人很多代表我們很多的人是被關在那裡的對 法務部有沒有什麼想法就未來要怎麼樣改善這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7002.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7014.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
在正式的管道或者兩岸司法互助協議上的管道其實我們都向陸方請求了但人員遣返部分是涉及到雙方的意願請問兩邊還有在開會嗎正式的會議當然沒有但是透過相關的研討會還是有在只是研討會因為這個涉及到 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7022.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7044.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們相關的司法互助或者是相關的情職交換不見得一定要透過正式的途徑有時候透過一個非正式的途徑反而容易取得相關的司法互助或者是調查取證那可是你們現在不是近幾年你們到大陸去開會的次數不是越來越少近幾年變少 是不是這個是我們這邊的問題還是他們那邊的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7048.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7075.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
是我們這邊的人不願意去還是他們那邊的人不願意讓我們去這個當然是要多雙方要有意見我的想法還是要更積極的處理這個問題那也請法務部可以把這些年來就是要不然就近三年來到底我們遣返了哪些人他的犯罪類型是如何然後兩岸破獲的案件是哪些案件把相關的資訊提供給我可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7076.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7087.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
好那就麻煩前兩個禮拜之內提供給我因為案件數很少吧對不對 好不好那就兩個星期之內提供給本席做參考好 謝謝好 謝謝那我們下一位請莊瑞雄委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7103.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7125.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
謝謝張偉,有請我們司法院副秘書長還有我們服務部的黃次長麻煩副秘書長移民署還有海巡署都有到,請上來一下好不好我想先請教黃次長,你跟我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7128.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7142.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
王富密其實都食物界非常有經驗的人但是我今天要特別來請教就是說最近竹北健身教練這個案子我相信劣童案你們應該很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7144.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7162.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
又跑掉了 這本來在2月5號才訂300萬交保那3月份的時候發現沒有到庭以後 發現已經棄保潛逃我有一個很大的感慨 就是說法院在做這樣的 這種接押庭的時候一般來講的話 應該都會通知檢察官立庭嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7167.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7183.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
市長不是這樣子嗎監察庭法律沒有規定必須要通知檢察官來力挺我們陷阱法上沒有規定是那所以說檢察官也未必會到實務上其實檢察官都會力挺如果有通知我們應該會到不通知的案例多不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7185.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7198.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
不通知檢察官他就沒有辦法也許他主動知道當然可以他也許他不知道他可能就沒有辦法倒庭所以這個案子就怪啦這個案子就變成說在接家庭的時候檢察官沒有立庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7200.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7225.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那法院他當然他有這個權利說這個預知被告多少金額來做交保嘛那這個案子是三百萬嘛我們就不談個案啦就說像這種案子三百萬交保以後那人跑掉啦到最後你說通知開庭的時候人跑掉啦那檢察官再去講說啊我沒有收到這個裁定啊所以我無從抗告啊那你會覺得這樣檢察官的這樣子抗辯的講法說法通嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7226.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7252.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
跟委員報告啦我們對法院的強制處分他基本上是透過抗告制度去救濟嘛那抗告當然檢察官要抗告全體他要審酌抗告有沒有抗告有沒有裁定書或裁定書的理由他才有辦法提起抗告嘛那如果說法檢察官他沒有收到裁定書雖然這個裁定書對他宣示他可以提起抗告但畢竟沒有理由對檢察官來講他事實上他是事實上他的無從提起 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7253.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7270.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
你這樣講也未必是一個全貌實務上哪是這樣 實務上有時候常常這個當庭法官就預支多少錢 被告多少錢 交保以後你檢察官沒有收到裁定書 你知道了以後其實抗告跟上訴一樣也不一定要具體理由我先不付理由我都可以抗告啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7271.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7293.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那跟那個前提是檢察官他有到場來執行公訴的前提之下所以這個案子又神不知鬼不覺檢察官又不知道啦人就這樣被給放走了那當然也未必講說法官他主觀上就是刻意要去放人也許他整個事實他認為是我300萬交保是本來就是很合理的啊他要跑到也不知道啊但重點我為什麼要這樣問啊就是說跟前面啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7295.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7321.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
又發生一個中文字案嘛本來就是一個科技監控那現在就變成也是說檢察官沒有收到裁定那現在法院預支一定的金額交保以後那跑掉了以後檢察官的講法也是又說我又沒有收到裁定這就變成說到底這個制度裡面有沒有什麼樣的一個破洞在這個地方你像譬如說科技監控的部分我到現在還沒有搞清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7323.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7348.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我到現在還沒搞清楚我兩三個禮拜到法官學院的時候我特地去詢問了一下我也跟你們法界的人討論了一下我到現在還是搞不清楚就是說你像比如說實質科技監控某某某科技監控有預知科技監控一定有一段的時間嘛對不對那科技監控完以後我說把這個電子腳療我要把它給放掉把它給拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7349.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7374.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
就解除他的科技監控法官說要解除科技監控就可以解除科技監控那我們實務上就是你要有電子腳療的話你腳上有戴一個啊不可能法官自己去把它給拆除掉啊一定有人把它拆除掉啊那假設說我是那個我們現在在執行的科技監控的人到底是誰啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7376.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7400.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
各位我們在四星電源組有設一個科共中心對 我知道高電池有科共中心我說實際上要把那個角料拿掉的是誰啊科共中心有專門技術人員會去是技術人員 對那總要有人給他下令啊他就是這樣子啊如果他他科技監控有一定期間嘛如果期間到了不延期在期間到了前十天我們科共中心就開始通知法官你要不要延 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7401.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7428.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
如果時間到了還沒有因為沒有接下來延長的裁定了嘛他就不能夠再繼續克控時間到了放人很合理啦時間到了放人很合理那我的意思就是說那你時間還沒到那我法官說下個裁定說你這個解除某某某的科技監控那總會你們是用開案的系統是不是對 他有一個系統好 那麼系統進去了以後那也不可能那一個執行人員直接他受到這樣的一個命令啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7430.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7453.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
你們都不用有任何一個書面或者說電子的公文都不用他如果裁定要科技監控當然他要有一個科技監控的命令書這些命令書給科工中心一定要有所以說嘛所以說你像比如說中文字案嘛你法官說要解除這個科技監控你要一個命令書嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7455.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7460.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
他這個不是 他是不延長 這個個案他是不延長時間到了就不延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7461.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7489.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
他時間到不延長所以他沒有另外的一個書面出來了就像我們羈押 羈押時間到了你沒有再一個延長羈押那你檢方哪有可能不知道 檢方一定知道啊高電署一定知道啊因為他是法院他直接通知客控中心的直接通知客控中心喔對 他是直接高電署法官他直接高院他直接不是高電署 高院跟科技中聯繫因為審理中的強制處分是法官做的那所以審理中高院 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7490.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7498.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
只下一個裁定他直接通知其實就是一個裁定嘛他直接通知客戶中心所有中文字放人是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7501.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7520.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
他放不放人 他沒有被羈押他科工中心這個人沒有被羈押 沒有放人的問題不是 解除科技監控啦他如果不延長的話 時間到了就不能夠不 不 我的意思是總要有人把他解除掉那你不可能唸咒語說 解除掉 不可能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7522.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7543.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
他到Deadline的前一天或Deadline的前一天我們的技術人員通常會約到法院的特定住所去做解除的動作所以你們的技術一定要一個技術人員把他給繳聊電子繳聊把他給解除嘛所以這個解除的人到底是誰叫他去把他解除的啊他收到誰的命令啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7545.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7560.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
法院啊法院直接喔對 因為審理中就是直接法院對客控中心了所以這件就跟你們高檢署就無關囉因為它不延長 它其實跟這件哇 那就無頭公案啦那像這種案子 你像譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7562.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7569.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
在審理當中你檢察官 法官在借押庭的時候沒有通知檢察官立庭那檢察官事後 人跑掉了以後大家都沒逃公安法官說我本來就是 我獨立審判我認為三百萬本來就是合理的啊我認為三百萬一般案件的話 你說我要保全被告我整個程序的進行 三百萬是合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7589.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7596.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
常常會出現這樣的一個不可能每個案子都是羈押嘛那你也不能講法官是什麼那檢察官又說我沒有收到裁定那像這種案件你們認為有沒有什麼樣的方法會比較好一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7603.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7621.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
當然根據委員報告 檢察官他要監督法院的所做的裁定當然就是對裁定本身提起救濟嘛是嘛 那前提是檢察官要知道這個裁定而且付理由他才有辦法救濟副秘書長有沒有什麼樣的不要有這個案子 每天都要報一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7622.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7638.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
撥一支中文字 撥一支竹筆內通這個司法現在真的會有減損就是我們司法院立場我們一定會深自檢討但是我要跟委員講一下這背景就是說偵查中 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7639.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7653.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
結束之後檢察官決定他要起訴這是檢察官決定的那今天這個人事實上本來在偵查中押他今天要到法院來事實上這個押票也是檢方開出來所以那一天要進到法院的時候檢察官他是知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7654.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7671.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
今天檢察官要法官要決定就是這個疑審程序有沒有他要決定這個所以我們實務上過去呢我們都尊重就是說因為檢察官他本來就知道了嘛知道說今天會開這個那個接鴨程序那我們都是尊重說檢察官因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7672.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7698.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
坦白講因為大家真的太忙了大家負擔太重所以就尊重他他們來不來第一個他們是知道的那第二就是說大案他們其實也通常都會來那就是這個事情發生之後呢檢方既然說我們沒有通知其實很多法院跟很多法官都還是會通知只是說有些呢就沒有通知因為檢察官前提他已經知道嘛那如果說認為這個地方我們要改善就是以後我們全面就全部通通都通知以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7699.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7725.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
那所以就是說當天要做了一個裁定檢方當然知道今天院方他會去做一個那個裁定那往後因為這個程序還在走所以說這個裁定是什麼檢察官他當然是會知道的那1306條的規定就是說院方他一定都會就是當庭去做一個宣示這個裁定已經做出來了嘛那做出來之後檢察官從這個10點開始他也是可以提抗告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7727.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7751.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
市長 你看 講法要跟你不同來他裁定 宣誓是對外生效沒有錯但是 宣誓因為這個案子講好像沒有道理他不曉得裁定的理由跟裁定的內容嘛他沒有裁定 他不知道理由他如何進行抗告 除非他就一律的抗告啦我比較在意的其實不是這個啦 你們都 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7753.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7767.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
比較本位立場啦 其實我聽起來也都有道理啦但問題就是說 社會大眾不是這樣看啦社會大眾不會這樣看啦社會大眾一定把你們兩個的講法就是你們是呼嘌皮球啦社會大眾認為你們這樣 欸 不然都沒有人錯很多事情確實沒有人錯喔但問題緩解這你怎麼樣去補這樣的一個漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7776.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7798.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這第一個 第二個我為什麼要請海巡跟這個漁民署上來的原因就是說 你像譬如說我們一般財務案件 你說啊你就欠稅 你不叫我行政院處這個地方 就跟你說你這個限制出境還有出海 那一般這種情況的話 你們海巡接到這樣子的話 你們是怎麼處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7800.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7826.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
跟委員報告就是有關處分機關做出的限制促進來處分那本署接獲通知之後會立即由本署的偵防分署在安檢知識系統裡面書件那提供所屬來做一個查詢那如果是 是啦我的意思說已經到海邊了 已經到海邊了你看到了你們怎麼處理我們會告知原處分機關那禁止這個當事對象來出海 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7828.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7845.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
禁止對象出海 就是說你不能處理這樣就沒有其他任何處分了你們就是阻擋你不要給我出去有沒有其他動作 都沒有然後另外會通知原處分機關通知原處分機關原處分機關你們碰到他都怎麼處理他都怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7852.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7864.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
也譬如說行政執行處我們跟你說這個人就欠稅了 不能處理他來到海邊 你在海巡後你給他通知有一個人在這個地方他欠稅的 他不能出去了那他通知你 你們接下來怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7865.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7885.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
他們會到現場嗎不會吧原主任機關未必會到現場那有時候會透過電話的方式告知這個對象他不可以出海就只告訴他不可出海而已那請問移民署移民署你們怎麼處理飛機要飛出去的到那個地方你們的處理方式是怎麼樣委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7885.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7911.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
如果我們收到行政機關或是司軍法機關的那個限制出境的命令那原則上如果當事人到了國境線上的時候我們也是一語攔阻攔阻是一定攔阻我說你們用什麼樣的處分的方式原則上如果他不能出境的情況之下我們會看後續之前那個司軍法機關有沒有做特別的註記希望我們做什麼樣的動作你們不是都開個書面給他而已嗎你們就是開書面 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7914.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7938.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那為什麼海巡的方式就跟你們不一樣這也怪喔我現在變成這種限制出境跟出海的部分海巡跟移民署的做法就不同啦你們移民署就是直接開一張書面跟他說你已經限制出境出海了所以你不能出境 交給他拼了不給他照反而海巡的做法又不一樣了他會去通知原機關然後等他的指示看要怎麼做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7941.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7958.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
跟委員補充報告一下因為我們在國境線上一攔阻的時候我們會應當事人的要求開禁止出境的通知單通知單裡面會跟當事人告知說是哪個機關來禁止他出境那後續的處置的部分我們會依個 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7960.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7982.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
禁止出境的機關給我們的指示 如果他需要電告 那我們就會用電告的方式如果當事人是需要我們留置 那我們就會就留置的方式 請該等行政機關來做處理好 我最後一個問題要請教副秘書長啦 就是說 你像一般我們做限制出境的話 像譬如說限制出境搭飛機的一定要護照嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7983.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8006.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那限制出境 我看今天羅志強委員他也提了一個案子啦我都這個蠻有創意的 像譬如說你說限制出境了那我法院可以把你限制出境啦 我有這個權限把你限制出境啦我乾脆把你這個護照給註銷啦我覺得這倒也不錯的一個思考的方式 我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣我們司法院是贊同的 因為目前的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8009.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8013.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
因為目前那個我們在那個報告上有講就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8016.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8044.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那個現行的那個行政作業上就是說外交部他們本來就是也有就不發護照跟那個註銷那現在就是說對於註銷的這一塊呢就是說把它放到那個116之二讓它作為就是停止羈押一個替代那個處分這個是可行的那這個等於是跟就是說他們外交部他們所做等於是那個多重的一個行政處分嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8044.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8070.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那這個我們認為是可行而且是有效的我也認為是有效所以羅志祥這個案子我準備給你支持但是最後的一個叮嚀就是說願檢其實像已經接二連三出現這樣的一個狀況常常讓檢察官用說我沒有收到裁定這個不是辦法啦再出現一次再出現一次每一次出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8072.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8098.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
民眾的想法跟你們想的不一樣啊你們想的是各自的是誰的一個理由到最後可能會有究責的問題嗎這到底問題點出在哪裡搞不好都嚴不相信民眾的想法就是說是不是又偷偷放人了這個對司法的信賴多會減損啊你們還是要想個辦法院檢之間看怎麼樣有一個聯繫或者研擬出一個你們共同看怎麼樣把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8101.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8124.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
動把它給補起來我覺得這個不要開玩笑了好不好可以喔 謝謝謝謝莊委員 那我們下一位我們請羅志強委員發言主席有請法務部跟警政署麻煩次長和警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8127.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8141.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
委員好首先還是先感謝莊烈雄委員我們一起為我們台灣的治安打拚來一起來去健全我們的法治能夠讓我們的這個司法犯罪的那個能夠更嚴謹不要讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8143.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8161.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
犯人逃逸在我們司法訴究的範圍首先我想先請問一下警政署就警政署掌握目前有多少通緝犯 棄保潛逃犯是在國外的能夠推估一個大概的數字嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8163.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8178.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
報告委員事實上我們剛才有您提到有8000這個數字的時候我們私底下有去了解一下目前這個數據這個會期我並沒有任何所知大概我們搜尋到應該是網路上好像有一個記者就訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8180.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8207.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
有私下管道去對那這個部分我們回去我們再做一個我們在這個可能外討論可能涉及到司法科跟國際科這部分我們沒有手上沒有現成的資料是不是容我們在後續提供其實這也是就是我一個質詢的點就是說事實上我也是根據新聞報導看到這個數字那我有跟貴部也有去詢問那你們沒有給我具體數字那我要講就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8209.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8237.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
官方其實這個數字還是應該要有啦我舉個例子我就問那個次長嘛對不對我們講不管說今天犯罪增防我們要去讓我們台灣的治安更好其實事前的各方面的跟犯罪有關的資訊掌握就很重要嘛對不對你資訊掌握到你才有後續的相關的所謂的治安作為嘛對不對犯罪打擊作為嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8237.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8265.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
所以我再想請教一下那個警政署啊警政署這邊就是說我們今天齁 你應該也不希望說我們有所謂的這個呃 嫌犯齁 棄保檢討齁跑到國外去嘛 對不對也不希望嘛 對不對那有這樣的人你們也希望把他抓回來嘛通棄犯把他抓回來嘛即便他不管在境內或是出境都想把他抓回來嘛 對不對可是問題來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8266.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8293.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
你對於他到底在跑到國外有多少人你都無法掌握那你請問你怎麼期待我們把人抓回來呢對不對 我這樣講有沒有道理目前就是只要是不管院檢發布通緝之後那人就是不見了那人不見之後我們也會去追緝但是他有時候比如說他如果沒有註銷沒有 護照沒有註銷的情況下他可能可以直接用正式管道出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8294.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8313.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那可能就會有記錄所以這當然就連到我們剛剛講呼召註銷的問題我也是因為這個洞我要開始講這件事那有的部分他可能會去做私下偷渡的管道那這個部分他逃掉了到底是不是做已經做這個私下的偷渡出去的這個部分確實可能我還是跟警政署說啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8314.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8334.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
無論如何你今天你可以還是有一些你已經掌握到在國外的那數字你要公布那你今天還不是很明確的你也可以公布一個不是很明確或是說他到底在台灣還是在外面你不明確的那就是一個數字嘛各位相信你應該還是知道有一些已經跑出去的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8335.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8353.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
沒錯吧不過完全都不知道只要跑了就連有沒有在國內都不知道這個部分這個手邊沒有相關數字我相信我們這個國際科外面也有一些聯繫的管道對啊應該有辦法像委員講說可能也會有一些情緒上的初估的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8355.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8370.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
可能農後再提供所以請把至少一個初估數字給我嘛因為這個東西說真的就是我剛剛跟次長講的嘛就是說你要先了解目前的我們到底這個所謂的不管是通緝犯逃到海外還是棄保潛逃的問題到底有多嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8371.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8382.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們接下來法治防治端我們才知道怎麼樣去包括立法包括行政作為包括政策作為我們才有辦法跟上那我想請教一下法務部今天我們討論刑事訴訟法116條之二的修法那關於註銷護照部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8387.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8409.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
它背後其實有關連另外一個我一直關切的法案嘛就是棄保潛逃罪嘛那我也是本屆第一個提案的委員那我想請教法務部去年徐錫陽次長曾經承諾在上個會期會把棄保潛逃罪送到立法院來我知道法務部是支持棄保潛逃罪的立法啦 對不對但是這個不版到行政院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8410.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8418.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
可是行政院現在確實一直都沒有送版本到立法院來那我想請問行政院有什麼疑慮嗎為什麼院版一直送不過來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8419.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8445.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
更有報告 棄保潛牢罪 當法務部當然支持說我們有相關完成相關的草案事實上我們在108年8月108年9月就已經送進行政院審議了那行政院當然這法案它有些各種意見甚至委員之間也不同的版本它其實爭議性實在有一些爭議那行政院它有行政院它要考量的因素所以目前還在行政院審議當中是還沒有送到大院我還是期許一下我們法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8446.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8467.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
因為說實在的話 我們立法委員當然是從人民的角度去提很多法案的一些建議但是如果有行政院版來做一個大家的參照比對 甚至相互的來去精進的話我覺得立法工作室可以更周延那這個事情剛好跟黨派也沒關係嘛 都是為了防範 增進我們治安的作為嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8468.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8487.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
所以一直拖著我覺得感覺上我覺得行政院這一塊你雖然當然我知道有一些各種不一樣的困難但困難對行政機關不應該作為一個理由啦那你有那麼龐大的一個政府部門專家學者作為後盾的話你事實上你還是應該要努力提出一個願板出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8488.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8506.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
好不好 拜託再去努力一下那否則我跟你講我們現在都進到這個階段了其實我是有一點點遺憾啦就是說等到這個階段結果院版沒有等到我是個人是有點遺憾但是如果能夠跟行政院精進一下也麻煩部長 次長這邊再繼續溝通好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8508.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8515.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那我想請教說就制定棄保潛逃罪其實非常重要那根據110年到112年的數據毒品跟詐欺的棄保潛逃犯佔比是超過85%嘛對不對我看那個大宗你們給我數據是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8524.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8541.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那這個部分來看的話其實你就會發現推動氣保潛逃罪它跟反毒反詐其實也高度相關聯當然是牽連在一起所以因此如果說行政院跟法務部都可以再努力一點你把更你們舊所謂的政府端你自己執法的經驗端 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8542.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8570.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
能夠把這些所謂的這個棄保檢討罪的一個防治棄保檢討防治的東西把它入法變成一個更好的一個專業的依據的話那當然對於防治毒販跟詐欺犯就會有幫助嘛所以這是為什麼我一直在督促的一個緣故那比方說最近除了鍾文智之外竹北社級虐童的葉姓健身教練他也棄保檢討那這位葉教練甚至還沒有限制出境那現在查 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8571.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8588.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
逃出境外了對不對其實你就發現就牽著兩個問題嘛一個是說如果有法院可以主動註銷護照那可能就有可能阻止他跑出去那第二個就是還要回到警政署你像這個其實你就知道他在境外了 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8589.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8617.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
就知道他跑掉了所以不會說完全不知道哪些人跑到國外但我知道有些人你沒辦法確定但你至少就可確定的部分我覺得行政機關還是有責任把這個數字提供給社會大眾讓我們知悉知曉那也才能夠方便我們行政機關做後續的一個防範那麼我相信這個棄保潛逃這個問題很嚴重啦我希望我們大家都在一起繼續努力好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8619.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8642.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
謝委員謝謝 那下一位我們請吳思堯委員發言好 謝謝主席 有請王複密然後請黃長賜張賜 不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8646.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8664.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
委員早安大家早安今天扣合著三個主題刑事訴訟法的修法然後立法委員成了違法委員嗎還有法庭的直播到底能不能上路三個議題來進一提出我的質詢下一頁有關今天有四個 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8665.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8682.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
刑事訴訟法的修法的議案那我自己初步認為在116條之二羈押替代處分增訂得廢紙並註銷護照旅行文件希望能夠藉由修法來防止被告逃逸到境外這個我支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8683.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8695.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
第二個呢刑訴法101條之一預防性羈押案件要增列兒少性剝削案件避免相關的犯行者在程序進行期間再犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8696.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8725.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那我個人也傾向支持但第三跟第四呢我認為就還需要再討論第449跟451條之一呢就是修正檢疫判決處刑的程序的這個部分基本上因為我不是律師我不是檢察官法官出身我基本上會尊重法律十五屆的意見那我同時也看到法務部跟司法院針對如果涉及這樣子的修法那後續也免不 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8726.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8741.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
要去增加很多法院相關的一些負擔那這些我覺得都可以再商量那第四個441條的非常上述的這個它變動了檢查總長的裁量權限 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8741.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8757.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
而且呢可能會混淆了非常上訴制度的功能所以用具體的個案的救濟有利與否來作為提醒非常上訴的要件我認為這真的是要挺看挺我大概把今天四個修法我兩個是100%支持後兩項我認為都需要再討論我表達我的立場我也看到你們的完整報告好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8767.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8783.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
但現在就交於兩位的事我們在宣誓就職的時候都要克尊憲法 克尊國家法規這是我的宣誓每一個立法委員都是要這樣宣誓請問在台灣我們要克尊哪一國的法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8785.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8808.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這簡單的ABC嘛當然是克尊中華民國的法律我真的不知道這個問題要成為今天立法院被討論的問題有民眾黨的委員呢引用中國的反分裂國家法要求行政院要遵從要克尊中國反分裂法的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8810.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8825.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
然後來批判說你如果沒有去參照中國的反分裂國家法禁制的把中國定為境外敵對勢力這樣對台灣很不好喔會招致一些風險喔兩位怎麼看來 複密我們來做法治教育王複密 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8836.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8857.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
在台灣的立法委員在台灣的任何一個公民我們要遵守的是台灣中華民國憲法所制定的反滲透法還是要遵守中國所制定的反分裂國家法就這麼簡單因為立法委員也是國家機關的一部分所以當然是要遵守中華民國的法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8858.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8878.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以我們要遵守的是中華民國立法院制定的反滲透法嘛反滲透法的第二條第一款具體的針對境外敵對勢力的要件有非常清楚的定義這是立法院自己通過的法律怎麼立法委員要成了違法委員呢來 黃次長法治教育給您20秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8880.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8899.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我們的確是在我們的反滲透法有對境外敵對勢力做一個立法性的定義什麼叫境外敵對勢力它包括交戰、對峙或者是主張以武力來非和平球段這個當然就會是我們反滲透法所定義的境外敵對勢力所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8901.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8921.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
不管政治立場是什麼不管你的政黨是什麼立法委員就要克尊中華民國的法律更何況這是立法委員自己立的法立委不要成為違法的委員立法委員成為違法委員了嗎去沖北檢沖北院請問極有法第六條規範的是什麼長次 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8932.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8950.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
它是有關於這個五院跟法院區域所在或周邊設置是禁止集會的除非有例外規定要不然是禁止集會的集合法第六條它規範了集會遊行的禁制區的四種樣態第一種就是重要的國家機關包括總統府 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8952.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8978.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
司法院考試院行政院但是立法院不算因為立法院秉持民意所以立法院我們是歡迎大家來表達不同的你的政治立場都可以所以說第一類是政府機關第二類是重要的交通設施嘛比如說機場港口是禁制區嘛第三類是軍事設施嘛重要的軍事設施不可以集會遊行嘛第四類就是駐外使館 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8979.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9003.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
對不對 我們要保護駐外使館的權益包括國際組織的駐台機構也都是極有法第六條所規範的集會遊行禁制區好 極有法是誰通過的立法院通過的立法院修法的請立法委員不要成為違法委員我今天還聽說在野黨的黨主席說他認為極有法是惡法要修 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9005.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9022.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
如果說是針對第六條要求大家真的可以討論但如果是為了方便個別的政黨為了鬥臭司法施壓司法消費司法要開放法院地檢署或是司法院能夠成為自由的 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9024.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9040.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
開放區我認為真的要深思兩位同意法院地檢署如果透過修法可以現在是禁制未來大家都可以要來抗議為了個案都可以來抗議你們的意見是什麼來我問秘書長覆名 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9042.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9065.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
司法院是反對的最主要是司法院是人民來禁用司法的一個場域這不適合開放法務部呢?地檢署被包圍基本上也是不宜因為這涉及到地檢署跟法院的莊嚴性另外可能會對個案懲辦檢察官或法官造成心理上的強制所以都為了捍衛司法的獨立公正 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9065.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9085.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我們都不以草率的去修集遊法有關於北檢北院或司法院可以成為集會遊行的場域我真的認為要慎重理由你們剛剛都說了但是立法院我們非常歡迎立法院從過去到現在甚至世界各國的立法院國會周遭都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9086.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9114.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
合法可以讓大家來表達不同意見的場域包括台灣也是好下一個立法委員不要成為違法委員喔這週末就要上凱道了我再次的呼籲我們國家有法規犯罪就是犯罪違法就是違法民主不容造假不管是會選不管是作票不管是罷免案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9115.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9134.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
未造連署都是違法行為如果立法委員上凱道是去挺作弊我想這真的是一笑大方也一笑國際今天花了一點時間我們來做法治教育接下來呢我們來進入另一個主題喔下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9135.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9155.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
也就是藍白領袖的高峰會那會中有人提出要推司法改革就是要法庭直播法庭直播下一頁直播真的不是萬能喔直播也解決不了所有的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9157.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9182.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
確實2017年司改國是會議有決議但他的決議是要先落實司法的透明跟友善再逐步來開放法庭直播這應當是當初司法國是會議一個完整的一個論述吧那但是我也找了資料當時的司改國是會議司法院有允諾要提出來研議開放法庭直播的草案你們有進行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9183.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9210.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
跟委員報告這個部分因為在思改國師會議期間它是一個議題所以司法院曾經做過非常周延的一個政策研討我們委託的那個學者專家就世界上就是重要這些法治國家就是進行了一個法庭直播的一個研究案然後之後我們也邀請了各方的妳要不要簡單分享一下幾個重要國際國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9212.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9239.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
目前來看跟我們相近的歐陸國家40省沒有人在開放的那即使是在美國他們有分聯邦跟邦就是聯邦的法制也都不開放原則上也都不開放那為什麼結論來講就是說特別是40省的法庭直播它對於法院的公正跟獨立性是很容易造成侵害是非常危險的 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9240.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9266.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
謝謝您的簡要報告所以您也說明了司法院試圖努力去提草案但是正因為我們做了這樣的研究做了這樣的評估包括去採酌世界各國的經驗也橫著台灣的司法現況所以你們才比較保留的態度我認為是可以持續研議既然有委員有倡議我們當然可以研議但是直播不是萬能我們還是有很多面向要考慮下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9267.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9289.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
那事實上也要替你們說一下啦在私改國是會議之後你們優先推動的司法資訊的透明公開其實已經做了相關的改革 革新譬如說2021年已經修了法庭錄音錄影及其利用保存辦法那個時候也因為疫情推我們一把所以說相關的軟硬體的建制跟辦法已經有修好 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9290.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9312.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那您剛講的世界各國的經驗跟保留的意見就看台灣法官協會是非常清楚的主張公開審判不等於法庭直播大家要三思各類訴訟參與者面對媒體傳播所承受的心理壓力是否影響到證人到庭作證的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9313.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9329.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
被告是不是也會因此直播而面臨了全民公審導致司法的摯愛難行甚至影響判決的公正性所以說必須妥適去權衡公開直播的公益性與訴訟參與者的基本權 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9334.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9351.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
一個是公益性大家想要直播想要透明想要公開但另外一邊訴訟當事者他才是這個案件的核心他的權益基本權是不容去強害的所以法官協會的意見都告訴我們還要再三思喔下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9352.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9376.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
事實上你們的預算現在也提出解凍案了史上被凍結最高的一次司法院的預算事實上這是2017年司改國是會議之後就已經有人替你們試算了如果說各級法院要事實審要法院法庭直播的話成本是非常高的你不管是自建直播系統或是採用租賃的系統那些都是一來一去 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9378.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9399.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
有一個數字是如果是租賃的方式像立法院我們的直播租賃的方式如果以你法院因為呢每年平均開庭五十七萬四千多次我們事實審法庭有五百九十八間可能要五百九十三億啊五百九十三億啊要推動的委員請三思國家的成本能夠來負擔嗎最後也也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9403.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9420.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
有違各自法的保障將不利於事實的調查而且有違無罪推定的原則而且恐怕會影響法官的心證基於這些理由我今天再一次透過我的質詢我想我們可以持續演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9421.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9445.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
可以持續研議但是直播不能解決所有的問題直播不是萬能立法委員也不要一直以直播來作為直播就萬歲直播就萬能在司法的領域上我認為這個是要深思熟慮的公開透明不等於全程直播能夠做到的司法的禁用友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9446.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9471.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
透明 公開 我們持續在其他的制度配套來推動好 我們一起加油 辛苦了 謝謝謝主席好 謝謝 那我們接下來請羅志強委員代理主席他來了嗎沒關係 因為他剛剛已經有跟我說那我們先休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9477.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9479.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我已經宣告 就先休息五分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9786.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9812.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
好有請吳宗憲委員好謝謝那我們請法務部司法院還有調查局還有警政署好有請各單位我也好我們還是要等一下複密複密還沒進來複密 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9835.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9863.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
好 謝謝各位 各位早安我先請教那個法務部跟司法院我看了一下你們今天針對陳廷輝委員所提的檢疫判決處刑制度的修正草案那你們不支持的原因主要是因為認為說司法資源的有限性嘛那如果說限縮使用可能會造成司法的負擔是不是 請問法務部跟司法院是委員可以說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9864.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9883.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
沒關係你們的報告已經有了所以我想這個是主軸對不對就主要司法資源就是說原因是什麼為什麼我們認為說會影響到排擠掉那個資源這個我當然知道整個制度的狀況我知道可不可以直接下判決不用通知當事人等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9883.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9909.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那我想說我是也蠻大程度的認同說目前司法的資源其實是有限不管是在司法院或者是法務部其實資源都是有限但是因為我最近看了一些狀況包括高院就是放了中文字的事情等等的其實在有限的司法資源之下其實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9911.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9927.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
應該我們對於這個司法資源的使用應該是放在真正的重刑犯上面而不是輕罪 更不是無辜的人民所以我昨天我在質詢的時候有提到說其實我們認為的司法應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9928.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9956.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
司法是要對付犯罪而不是拿來當作政治的工具更何況司法的資源是有限的所以在使用上面應該要更去思考怎麼樣對國家人民有利那我們今天審的法案都是刑事訴訟法的條文那這個法呢其實刑事訴訟法它最大的精神是在於說要發現真實還有執行一個正當的法律程序來保障受訓問者而不是說一昧的事實調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9957.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9978.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
不是說今天這個人有構成犯罪那我就動用所有國家的偵查力量去對付他譬如說有一個人侵占遺失物那我是不是要開始大量的搜索羈押詢問然後只為了發現他有沒有侵占遺失物的這個事實我想司法不是這樣用所以在刑事訴訟程序上面有犯罪就應該偵辦但是永遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9979.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10004.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
比喻原則是我們在衡量手段以及目的性的一個很重要考量尤其是在司法資源有限的情況下怎麼做其實才是一個真正重要所以除了不該一昧的就是你們就是拿說犯罪事實調查這個當作藉口之外其實你們要考量的是怎麼樣去保障正當法律的程序那這譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10005.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10022.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
比例原則有沒有去注意到公正公平的手段有沒有去注意到我想這個是我們每個司法人員因為司法人員國家訓練我們一個司法官訓練所出來的像兩位跟我國家是要花非常多錢才能把你訓練出來的我想花那麼多錢訓練出來的從業人員應該這是我們一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10026.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10037.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
遵守的一個原則嘛 就是在訴訟上面偵查上面 審判上面有沒有符合比例原則以及公平公正合乎訴訟程序的手段我想兩位認不認同這個說法認同好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10041.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10056.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以昨天我在質詢的時候遇到一個狀況就是其實人民納稅給你去發薪水絕對不是讓你說6點半去老民而且我們6點半會去一定是搜索或執行GT才有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10056.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10073.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那六點半去送達傳票這個我還真的沒聽過我想請教次長次長那個你是我檢查實習的時候的老師所以我一直尊稱你是老師嘛那以前是因為你對我影響很大所以我一路以來我就是選擇一定要當檢察官不是當法官因為我覺得偵查犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10075.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10088.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我很喜歡這個炸犯罪然後能夠給我們自己的成就感以及對國家的貢獻所以我想請教你我們什麼時候會在六點半去檢察官會指示司法警察去送大家船票我想請教次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10090.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10109.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
好那當然通常會在清晨這麼早通常是進行搜索進行強制處分的作為的時候就我剛講的那這個案子他送這個傳喚的方式的話但他其實他就是說他基本上他不違法但個案上妥不妥適昨天跟今天很多外界都有一些不同的意見嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10110.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10125.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我相信基隆地檢他已經聽到外界的一些聲音了就是妥適性的部分當然可以再行檢討那基本上我們認為就是說這個案他法律合法性沒有問題但妥適性要不要檢討我們尊重一下那個我們尊重這個基隆地檢的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10127.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10155.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我覺得不當的事情就是要大聲說出來如果我今天我是一個執法人員或我是一個國家公園我說我這行為沒有違法我就可以任意對人民怎麼樣我不覺得這是應該的更何況我跟市長報告你是我以前的指導老師我在那邊講嘛有誰會早上六點半派司法警察去某一個人家送船票我昨天還請教了調查局長以及法務部長我說請問一下是請他馬上帶著走還是只是通知他另外到庭時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10156.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10175.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
局長是說通知另外一道庭實決那我說那就一般有物送達就好了為什麼要警察早上六點半去好 就我們今天發現基隆有一個議員他是之前民進黨的立委候選人他直接講啊 他還公佈錄音耶這個部分是警察 警政署的部分警察到現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10177.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10195.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
一大早在現場 民眾要上班 還跟他說我要上班這個名字是我簽的結果警察不讓他走 一定要他做筆錄然後這個錄音是民進黨的立委候選人自己公布的那我就不知道說 這是怎麼回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10196.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10215.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
你基隆地檢的甲官這麼偉大嗎可以叫調查官叫警察一大早人家上班前跑去那邊把人攔下不讓他上班就是要做筆錄更何況這些人是你偵查時候認定的被害人他是可能被委簽名字的被害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10216.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10230.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
就你一大早跑去他家把他攔下來不讓他上班 因為要做你的筆錄請問 請問次長 請問警政署這是我們的正當法律程序嗎 我請教你請你告訴我這是不是正當的法律程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10230.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10245.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
跟我們報告就是說傳喚當然在政壇法律程序上面如果說看對證人還是對被告的傳喚證人除非有急迫警情但原則上要在24小時內前送達被告當然沒有這個限制那關於這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10246.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10262.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
傳喚它基本上它也是對於訴訟法上對人身自由的一個自由權的一個干預它理論上都要符合相關的比例原則或相關的憲法上的原則來講是 謝謝鎮長那但是這個擺明了就是沒有慣例沒有這樣的慣例對被害人的這種傳喚 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10263.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10278.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
完全違反比例原則你跟我說這個法律沒有說不行好 那法律沒有說不行那我下次是不是五點可以送四點可以送 凌晨三點也可以送尊部長來跟我講說這是考量基隆人的特殊性那我就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10280.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10304.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
很多桃園人也到台北上班 那我是不是桃園就是凌晨五點去那我的助理每天從新竹到台北來上班 那是不是他四點如果要通知他是不是船票四點要送過去我說部長在鬼扯蛋 部長在亂講我說部長昨天早上記者問我說 部長就在亂講 胡說八道你今天幹到部長級的人 你還在國會的這邊胡扯 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10305.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10326.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那我覺得這不應該啦 更何況 因為昨天我在問的是調查官去現場問到底是送達通知書還是製作筆錄 還是要帶走那局長跟我說只是去送達改天要開庭的通知書但是我們今天看到警政署的這個部分是直接把它攔下來做筆錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10327.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10353.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
但是我不能確定大法官是不是請他 是把他攔下來做筆錄但是如果是的話 那昨天局長跟部長在這裡就騙我了雖然大法官認為說 政務官來這邊背詢說謊沒事但是我覺得這也不是我們認同跟支持的一件事情那我再講一個 因為剛剛的新聞說宜蘭的黨部也被收鎖那我跟各位報告一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10355.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10378.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我們從基隆的案子來看基隆的案子基隆罷免林佩祥的領銜人他還在臉書感謝調查站可以讓他喬到下午再去接受詢問還謝謝調查官的什麼善意好那結果呢罷免綠營團體的搜索羈押 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10383.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10393.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
一大早去把你帶走那我們今天遇到的狀況是什麼你今天只要是罷免民進黨立法委員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10394.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10418.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
領銜人就是開始就把你搜索 羈押 大肆的給你查辦那罷免藍營的呢 他用力查辦的對象是誰竟然是連署人耶 竟然是被害人耶結果領銜人可以 哇 他說下午再問就下午再問還可以在臉書上面發言 感謝調查站的善意這是多麼荒謬啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10419.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10437.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我想請教一下這是多麼的荒謬今天你遇到你司法在處理事情的時候竟然可以如此的區別對待我自己看到就是這樣啦今天只要是罷免綠營的支持者那你就是狂殺狂砍 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10439.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10458.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那今天罷免藍營的人 那你就對於所謂的支持的被害人 你就狂殺狂砍我真的沒有辦法想像司法怎麼會到今天那我不想問部長 因為部長每次都跟我說 干涉個案就是個案不討論 我已經發現部長的SOP了 你只要問他 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10463.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10481.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
罷免跟藍營有關的 他就跟你講個案然後護航 我們的執法執行人員都沒問題早上去問被害人 是因為基隆人有這樣的特殊需求結果你問到他罷免綠營的人的事情的時候他就開始跟你 這個案我不討論喔 這支個案喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10483.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10511.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
他永遠都是雙標這樣對我那我也說我昨天氣到跟部長說我說我也是內行人不要在那邊跟我講外行話你司法今天有沒有雙標次長我不用你回答這句話次長你是我以前的老師你也是讓我決心要走檢察官這條路的人你真的覺得今天的司法走到今天這樣我們是不是其實回到家其實可能眼淚都要流出來了怎麼司法會配合政客玩到今天這個地步 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10512.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10535.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
調查局也是 警政署也是這是我們當年從市長官訓練所出來的時候追求的司法那我跟市長 跟老師報告我在國民黨執政的時候 我辦劉正宏 劉正子 我是辦得多用力民進黨執政的時候 我辦鄭文燦他們 我辦得多用力因為這個都是 我等於是在對抗當時的任何一個執政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10537.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10562.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
因為我心中司法就是公正的處理每個案子我每一次辦完都被關切都有人對我不爽但我覺得那個就是一個司法人員的宿命我們就是要起來對抗強權結果我今天看到的完全不是這樣次長這個部分真的你就不用回答所以我認為犯罪該辦就辦這我絕對百分之百支持但是犯罪的時候不應該區別對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10565.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10577.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
在最近這個連署的這個案子裡面其實可能發生的就是違簽姓名的偽造文書啦這是犯罪 我一直說這個是犯罪但是我們希望的是能夠公平的對待所以剛剛吳孝文跟大家說 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10579.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10598.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
什麼什麼去集會什麼4.26去集會怎麼樣然後這個你們認為這個不是犯罪什麼等等之類就覺得這些人都是在誤導國人因為我們今天主張的是我剛剛所說的你在針對同樣的事情的時候你是採取不一樣的對待方式我是對於司法的不公執行方式的不公 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10599.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10616.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我在抗議的是這個事絕對不是我說偽造文書沒有過程犯罪我從幾個月前我在立法院的國事論壇上面我就公開的說偽造文書不管哪一檔只要你偽簽偽造聯署書就是犯罪所以不要在那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10617.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10644.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
胡扯這些事情還有我再提一個3月17號的時候中選會的副主委有說二階段連署的格式只能由選務機關發出來也就是說他所有的格式都不能夠有自己設計的如果有的話他自己說他副主委自己說有違反公職人員選罷法還有刑法等等的相關責任而且他講得細到說各個 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10645.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10674.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
名冊格式這個標題文字字體名各欄次次序長寬的等等這個只要有問題那就是違法結果呢我們發現花蓮花蓮有4000份的格式有問題結果到現在呢有搜索嗎沒有啊有大量傳喚嗎沒有啊所以這到底是怎麼回事呢那我們再想這兩天聽到的說什麼新竹的林志傑 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10675.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10698.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
前立委參選人 他叫大家來簽聯署 然後會請喝咖啡 吃蛋糕那這個我們一聽到 這個絕對是會選嘛但現在呢 也沒有沒有任何的動作 但是我們看到的你對於其他的地方像譬如說今天對宜蘭 就超級有效率然後趕快去搜索 然後把人現在全部都帶回去飼料處 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10700.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10728.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
然後在做這種事情所以這就是我心裡覺得我心裡覺得不公平啦我是替人民出來講話我對這國家這個司法對於人民是不公平的而且部長昨天局長趕在這邊跟我講我們都是依法處理我跟你講鬼才信啦我今天幹過20年檢察官我很清楚這些長官在玩什麼東西只是這一次的長官玩的比以前嚴重更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10730.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10757.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
國民黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家心知肚明民進黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家也心知肚明但是我所看到的是這一屆玩得最誇張最離譜那各位都是國家真正很強的棟樑那我也不管大家我也不在乎大家政治思想是什麼但是是不是我們在執行司法執行公務的時候就心裡那一把尺我也有我自己的政治傾向但是在過往我不管在辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10758.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10786.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
國民黨的劉家或是在辦民進黨的次長我永遠心裡就那把尺就是司法怎麼樣我就怎麼辦我即使辦到後來部長對我都很不諒解我還是堅持辦因為這是司法人員的堅持嘛我辦劉家也被他們檢舉了好多年啦我也從來沒有說怨恨他們什麼就是我覺得該怎麼做我記得次長你也曾經打過一通電話給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10788.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10813.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
你在處理劉佳那時候告我的案子那個時候你應該臨時在法務部處理這案子我那時候在桃檢 你有打電話跟我問一下整個內景狀況 我有跟你回覆所以我們是提著人頭在辦案 在對抗強權但是現在的司法的長官們是怎麼在做的好 那我再請教一下次長次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10816.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10832.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
花蓮的這個案子後來講說為什麼這4000份有問題卻沒有提告那當時的花蓮地檢說因為沒有人來告啊那我想請問一下次長沒有人檢舉的案子非告訴難用的案子地檢署就不用發動偵查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10833.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10855.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
當然不是 講關於告訴告發自首或其他刑事自由犯罪嫌疑及應急開始偵辦是 謝謝次長 謝謝老師那我想檢報分案也是檢方的日常那今天這麼嚴重了 大家鬧哄哄成這樣而且非常多罷免團體也都被辦的情況下花蓮地檢署竟然可以說因為沒有民眾來告 所以這四千份的事情我就沒有處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10856.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10874.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
然後後來是侯漢廷跑去提出告發那我的意思是說花蓮地檢的這個說法會不會太騙人民啊太侮辱人民的智商啊檢報分案是很多人民都知道的事情更何況司法人員就花蓮地檢署竟然可以說沒有啊沒有人來告啊所以我沒有辦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10876.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10901.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
這個東西我也沒有辦法接受啦跟老師報告一下這個我沒有辦法接受因為我覺得這也是選擇性的不作為前面是選擇性的作為這邊是選擇性的不作為我覺得國家如果要愚民就不要讓我念書你讓我念書了大家念到博士了我們念到博士了然後你再來給我騙一堆弱智的人才會被騙的事情那這樣的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10902.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10931.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
不知道在搞什麼不然你就讓我們全國人民都不要念書全部小學三年級畢業就好如果不是這樣的話請不要把大家當笨蛋看就算刪除預算一樣他叫大家不要送解凍案來他忘記了我們有好多同學跟親戚都在中央機關上班啊他們都會私下跟我說上面交代解凍案都不要送要讓人民對你們不爽對啊所以我就說這就是現在就是現在的政府我不知道現在政府到底是 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10933.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10945.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
福國利民 心存善念的在對待人民就是在搞他的政治鬥爭所以我最近對於司法的問題越來越生氣就是現在司法真的完全不是我以前想像的 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10946.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10972.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那次長我再請教一下就是筆跡有沒有重複啊到底目前大家的判斷標準是什麼為什麼大家看一看就可以來搜索請教次長當然現在才在搜索階段他要求的這個證據能力的程度不會像到法院嘛那到法院當然通常透過鑑定的證據方法去確認這是否有違照因為在政察中他申請相關的搜索票也好他並沒有要求要證證 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10973.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10999.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
證據能力所以也許檢察官他就基於勘驗勘驗也是一個調查方法勘驗之後認為他有可能有這個偽造肢體他也許就提這個證據向法院收集好 謝長這都我們很熟悉的嘛但是我也要跟就是說跟在場的各位報告一件事情不管在高雄韓國瑜的連署案的案子或者是在北檢當時辦的郭台銘連署案的案子其實檢察官到最後都認定說 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11003.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11014.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
罷免團體領先人他們是被動的收這些聯署書他也沒有審核的能力他也沒有護意證系統可以比對真假依照現有的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11018.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11036.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
確實現有的制度 北檢也說了啊 依照現行法制之下被聯署的人確實沒有無權要求民眾出具證件核實才能參加聯署那既然有這麼大漏洞 當時國民黨要提案說罷免要附身分證一本 民進黨又狂擋還在那邊騙說人民說國民黨沒收罷免權 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11038.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11061.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
其實我們希望能夠有一個嚴謹的連署結果民進黨不肯他設了一個局讓大家跳進去就現在連署了啊那他就開始說有一些事可能是有問題就像基隆一樣嘛跑到人家家裡問你說六點半問你說這是不是你連署就那個人說對啊這我簽的啊那今天你司法機關竟然可以拿了這個東西覺得兩個人的筆跡很像就可以把它當作一件刑事案件在偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11062.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11088.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那不是就等於坐實了你原來民進黨不想要付身份證影本就是想要讓國民黨簽一簽之後反正司法都在你手上啦隨便你怎麼玩嘛他就直接拿聯署到你家去問然後說這是不是你簽的然後開始擾民開始玩這些如果今天可以要付身份證影本的話今天這個狀況大概發生的機率是非常低所以我覺得一整套套路下來民進黨就是用不停的制度以及什麼就是要玩弄國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11089.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11118.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
不然我們都附身分證影本大家都玩真的就好了為什麼你港到底他顯然就設一個局讓你跳可以讓他控制的司法人員可以隨便拿兩張這個筆記好像很像那我就開始去調查就變成這樣子就有司法人員陪著調查所以我想講檢察官是看證據辦案不是看政治辦案千萬不要變成今天是看政治辦案這真的是不可取 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11119.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11140.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
所以我過去20年在檢方的時候我辦了很多執政黨的人當然把我們自己搞得全身都是傷那我以前覺得受那個傷我對得起國人所以我願意這樣做那你們今天變成今天這樣讓我想說那我以前好像是笨蛋欸為什麼我會這樣逼自己要一切 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11142.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11167.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
要依法處理 要愛這個國家 要為這個國家做事我現在看到的都完全不一樣所以 罷籃的直接處理你罷團罷綠的 早上直接去處理那個趕聯署的人然後對於罷籃團體的領銜人還可以跟他 移到下午再開庭讓人家來臉書感謝這就是我看到現在的司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11169.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11183.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
好吧 那個 我覺得齁 我還是說啦犯罪就該偵辦但是 我不會去批評檢方啟動犯罪調查這件事所以我一路來我都沒有說你們處理八人團體是不對 但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11184.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11200.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我的要求只是請公平的對待 請注意手段目的的比例原則否則在一個完全不符合比例原則這個之下我沒有辦法接受那請重視一下正當的法律程序你們目前的作為其實讓我沒有辦法溝通這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11206.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11226.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
好 那 而且我各位還要想到一件事情你們現在搜索羈押的這些人 萬一以後判無罪呢判無罪之後願意賠償 然後你也是拿全民的錢去賠給他你今天搞了這些人 達到你的政治目的結果你到最後判無罪了 你也是拿人民的錢去賠給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11228.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11253.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
民進黨沒事啊沒受傷啊我得到好多的政治紅利啊反正賠的是國家的預算啊也不關他的事那這是我現在看到而且我預測將來可能會面對到可能會面對到很多這種東西啦我相信會有很多人會被判無罪因為你怎麼去說他有辨識違簽的這個能力那個檢調機關真的不要變成司法鬥爭的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11256.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11260.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
最後我想說 我提一個東西 因為跟今天的法案是有一點關係的 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11262.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11284.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那個在這個PowerPoint上面我希望說你們兩週內能夠提一個報告對這個車禍過失傷害的告訴難論之罪要加強這個刑事附帶民事的這個權益的告知因為有些人他不知道就整個走完之後過了過了損害賠償的那個請求權時效因為實務上有很多人來跟我 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11285.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11302.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
跟我報怨那個陳情這個事但我跟他說這是因為法律的規定但是行政機關司法機關確實是可以可以幫忙去做這個啦好最後最後30秒給我剛吳思堯講到說那個那個禁制區的問題就是極有法禁制區廢除了我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11304.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11332.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我沒有 我對要不要廢除我沒有意見但是提廢除的是民進黨當年提的耶所以吳志曉可能要回去先跟黨問一下當初是民進黨提說要廢這個禁制區不是國民黨結果他今天執政了 他又覺得禁制區要存在這就是他的雙標不管在財化法等等 國會改革 民進黨永遠在雙標好 然後呢還有就是他剛剛說立法委員不能變為法委員然後說帶隊到那個台北地檢署前面去集會當然那個集會 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11333.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11353.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
法律上面當然可以給予評價 但是我在這邊要跟各位再報告一件事那去年12月呢 青鳥要衝進立法院 然後在那邊剪斷鐵絲網然後在那邊妨害公務 毀損跟妨害公務呢那這兩個也是犯罪啊 為什麼沒有見到你說立法委員什麼時候立法委員是違法委員呢 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11354.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11381.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
劉四芳明明沒有指揮警察辦案的權利就他可以叫警察說要移送誰移送誰然後大家問他之後他就說違法就要辦啊那如果劉四芳違法就要辦 那劉四芳要不要辦 辦鍾佳斌因為鍾佳斌在那邊撿鐵絲網啊 那是毀損啊那要不要在那邊辦案那幾個 王定宇那幾個在那邊叫 衝進立法院趕快衝進來那個是妨礙公務啊那劉四芳要不要叫指揮警察辦案呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11383.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11406.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
所以我就覺得就是永遠雙標啦自己也沒有指揮的權利也在那邊說要指揮警察丟臉丟死了 連這最基本自己能做什麼都搞不清楚然後立法委員在那邊敲壞立法院的桌子 拔斷麥克風打破玻璃 晚上跑進立法院都沒事 都不是犯罪 然後到 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11408.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11416.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
到北檢前面集會 要違反極右法天大的罪好像要殺頭一樣結果你在這邊幹了一堆蠢事丟臉丟到國外摸女生屁股 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11417.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11443.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
摸女性立法委員屁股就還上很多國家的報紙頭版沒事這就是我們現在看到的所以剛剛那個吳志曉委員說啊他是今天來這邊給大家上那個法律教育課我覺得他應該自己要去上一下法律教育他自己搞不太清楚法律他自己才應該去先上法律教育課懂一下什麼是正常的法律好 不好意思謝謝各位 那麻煩兩週內能夠把這個報告給我們 可以嗎可以好 謝謝 謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11457.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11485.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我們常常講剛好就好不要得了便宜還在賣乖 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11487.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11516.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
還在這裡淋牙俐齒啊在教訓在野黨今天真的是民進黨應該好好回去看看自己的黨章民進黨的黨章啊它是什麼呼籲怎麼呼籲啊法律來執行啊各位民進黨的擁護者坐在這邊的這群人聽好民進黨的黨綱 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11519.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11546.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
維護法律位階之原則並實現實質之正義立法更應遵照正義理念配合社會之發展與時並進司法也應超出黨派依法獨立審判第八條行政官僚制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11548.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11566.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
除了應接受其他部門嚴格監督制衡外尤其應該建立保持政治中立的制度和行動倫理以免淪為政黨統治的工具就是你們這群人就是你們這群人 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11578.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11605.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
來請那個次長跟那個副秘書長好 麻煩次長複密本席實在是很不想來詢問每一天有這麼多的公務要來執行現在有這麼多執政黨加以在野黨的糾紛我們要來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11610.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11633.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
但是今天早上國民黨宜蘭縣黨部又被搜索領銜人又被帶走我不得不啊來這裡請教司法院跟法務部現在詐騙案鋪天蓋地人民的痛苦指數如此的飆高 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11638.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11663.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
國際經濟局勢的險峻百工百業產業無以為繼不知何去何從國家司法的機器卻全部聽從執政者的操弄全面對在野黨抄家滅門禮拜一禮拜三本席都有登記發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11666.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11690.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
一再姑念司法院應該超然這是皇后的真操一再姑念法務部回頭思案本席沒有來質詢今天早上又搜索了宜蘭縣黨部表示我們的昭偉吳宗憲吳昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11695.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11720.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
你排了一三的議程這麼多人來這裡表達爭議之聲看起來是對牛彈琴依然顧我請問一下市長現在不管是司法雙標還是清算一級到今天早上為止6比0台南 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11724.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11752.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
高雄 台北 新北 花蓮現在今天是宜蘭 抄家滅門對在野黨政府對在野黨黨部然後對執政者所提出對在野黨立委的罷免案沒有看到任何有生壓 有交保 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11753.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11781.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
甚至司法院也睡著了也沒有任何積極辦理的行為請問一下 次長本席還是要就教為什麼到基隆去查核連署人為什麼不是早上六點半去查核領銜人請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11783.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11807.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
各位報告那金庸地檢自己這麼做他自己本身有發信用稿做一些澄清我們要表示就是說這個送達本身是合法但是妥適性的部分因為昨天跟今天委員大院或者媒體都有一些指證那妥適性的部分是不是要檢討市長金庸地檢他應該已經講了這麼多天了嘛你上期主管機關那你在管理什麼啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11809.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11818.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
這個現在已經是通案了嘛根本不是個案了嘛現在通通已經通案了嘛對在野黨所有全部不是抓人就是押人這已經變成通案了嘛怎麼還在鬼扯什麼叫個案這不是通案這什麼是通案完全同一標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11835.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11858.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那不是通案 什麼是通案現在請教一下六點半 到人家敲門這種政治操作故意讓罷免攔尾這些人身受其擾群情激憤來增加罷免攔尾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11860.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11880.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
這樣的力道 是不是你們的目的就在這裡 是不是各位報告 我現在講的話不可能有些辦案上有什麼政治上的考量他是個案上的一個考量我想 黃市長 本席相信你啦但是本席要請教為什麼六點半去 為什麼凌晨六點半 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11882.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11900.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那這個個案他是檢察官他去做判斷嘛但是我們因為我們法務部無法接觸到那個個案他為什麼做這樣的決定那基隆地檢署他有發布新聞稿來澄清為什麼做這樣的決定可是部長鄭明謙部長告訴我們是基隆人的生活習慣 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11903.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11930.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
你們這個是如何指導中華民國哪一個公務機關告訴你們基隆人的生活習慣是早上六點半沒有去的話就會找不到人哪一個公務機關告訴你們因為基隆地鐵署他就這個個案他本身發布了一個新聞稿澄清他為什麼在六點半送他船票為什麼他新聞稿上有一些具體說明原則上就是因為考量民眾他已經上班的便利性之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11933.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11954.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那 櫃部也認同是嗎各位這就真的是個案了 這不是我解釋 法務部認不認同的問題發這種新聞稿在騙三歲小孩 櫃部認不認同嗎如果櫃部不認同是不是要糾正嘛 是不是要糾正嘛但是他妥適性 妥不妥當 符不符合原則 這不是糾不糾正的問題他當然不妥適啊 不然你現在解釋那麼多幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11962.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11978.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
你們做了什麼採處沒有嗎各位他個案上還在偵辦我們部什麼叫做個案金融地檢他這個個案跟委員講你們不採處就是默認是嗎這個不會啊那以後桃園就是五點半新竹是四點半 凌晨 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11981.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12004.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
如果你們放任下去就是這樣嗎不是嗎?鮑文我們沒有放任這不是我們法務部叫他這個個案檢察官他自己的判斷他認為他個案上他要做這樣子的決定所以法務部是一個無能的法務部完全無法約束製作網文就是了跟我們報告個案上他本來就不應該來報告法務部法務部本來就反而不應該去報現在你造成社會關注了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12005.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12031.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那你布局的態度是什麼嘛你剛剛不是說不妥適嗎我不是說妥不妥適 個案上要去檢討你剛剛不是講不妥適嗎我沒有說我妥不妥適外界這兩天檢討那既然是不妥適那你們採取的方式是什麼嘛我剛才沒有說他妥不妥適據法務部來講 我說這兩天外界包括大院已經做相關的一些執政我相信基隆地檢他會做一些妥適性的檢討我剛才是這樣子跟大院回答的我們就來看你們現在法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12035.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12062.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
在鄭明謙部長帶領之下所形塑的通案我們看一下法律行為的比較違照文書跟共諜現在不是呼天搶地從賴清德到卓榮泰到所有的執政者都在喊抓共諜說在野黨都是共諜 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12065.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12094.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
全部在執政黨的窩裡面請問一下法務部是用什麼樣的標準用什麼樣的標準抓到重大的共諜20萬交保抓到所謂的偽造文書在野黨要生壓五年以下有期徒刑要生壓無期徒刑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12098.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12122.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這種處罰20萬交保能不能跟全國國人說明一下不要跟我扯個案法務部的標準非常簡單我們的檢察官獨立規範或者法官法甚至使用這種法都要求檢察官要客觀性中立性這是保持我們檢察官品味的要求那檢察官的法務部的標準很簡單個案上就是依照證據依照我們相關的法律依法來偵辦這就是法務部的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12124.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12146.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
你們還在這裡齒言是嗎講到臉不紅氣不喘 以後怎麼教學生嘛今天你的對答跟歷史上今天所發生的事情你要如何面對來 請副秘書長您代表司法院這是法院的裁處對 在野黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12153.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12155.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
有這麼多的收押對於匪諜窩 抓到匪諜法院裁處20萬交保請問法院這是什麼邏輯啊又是個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12173.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12192.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
呃 聖楚英這一件交保是在偵查中檢察官所做的決定所以這個我們沒有辦法就是跟法院所做的這一些財處做相 相比較好 謝謝那請次長看到沒有司法又 又把你打臉了檢察官自己裁定20萬交保 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12204.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12228.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
然後其他最高本性無期徒刑20萬交保然後對於在野黨國民黨疑似可能偽造文書要求生壓這就是今天檢察官很急著要升官是嗎急著要升官是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12230.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12256.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
蔣國光辦案他跟他升不升官沒有關係啊我們蔣國光辦案我們蔣國光他的看過 辦過藍營的每一個都升官嘛他的歷練我們有一定的這個資歷他不會因為沒有錯啦以後再列逐番不及備載啦當然曉得現在內閣要改組啦所以劉世芳已經薄密演出到這種情況劉世芳已經薄密演出到這種情況他說他是部長依法要告發依法要偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12258.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12282.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
真的是不得了現在每一個人啊都窮極要表現啊去看看內政委員會 劉思芳所在的內政委員會民進黨立委公然壓制公務人員不得出委員會不得上廁所逼著公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12289.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12293.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
直接辦理退休這種強制行為有申辦了嗎市長有申辦了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12302.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12324.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
有證辦了嗎?根本我還不瞭解,但是如果說...就算你是話外之明,你經常說的惡行惡為你都沒有看到電視報了幾天,法務部恍然不知那也不是法務部的職長,那是假官的職長因為那些都是現行犯,那都是現行犯再過來,請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12327.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12349.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
你們現在法務部已經證明簽認了 已經認證國民黨如果遺失偽造文書是遠遠勝過共諜案共諜案不重要 抓在野黨比較重要今天調查局是哪一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12357.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12383.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
是哪一位 報告員 我是調查局副局長 吳義工副局長 是啊本席在這裡啊請問一下 我也不要問你啦我怕待會你也有受到什麼壓力啊但是本席要特別尤其是黃次長本席要特別提醒你全世界各個政權政黨輪替啊是實屬必然 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12386.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12408.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
黃市長你也有可能有一天當部長這個吳以工副局長你也有可能有一天當局長但是過程中的足跡請自己要保持乾淨因為很簡單嘛 你看我們吳宗憲吳委員 吳昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12411.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12440.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
怎麼不 怎麼誰能預設他可能2028他是國民黨的法務部長有很多事情會撥亂反正沙嗲離家啦不是不報時間未到本席在這裡喔來次長 那個副局長請回次長喔請教一下現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12442.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12468.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
選罷法選罷法對於這些幽靈人口的查核要怎麼查核我們選罷法就那個幽靈人口他有一個特別的規定他在須先的罷免或者選舉他有一個虛偽遷徙戶口他都有特別的規範一個範圍虛偽遷徙戶口對好看看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12469.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12498.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
這些當選無效當選無效這個台中的這個里長因為幽靈人口當選無效來下一頁來屏東的村長遷徙幽靈人口當選無效再來高雄還有金門下一頁好上一頁上一頁這麼多當選無效是因為幽靈人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12500.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12529.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
在選拔法裡面幽靈人口要怎麼查核市長各位報告那個在實務上我們會跟相關的戶政機關會保持一定的聯繫啦那警察他有時候會去做一些實際的查訪或者他有沒有實際居住在他涉及的所在地戶籍機關嘛或者是在相關的投票行為的當天我們會做相關的一些查證是依照戶籍法哪一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12532.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12535.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
本席再告訴你依照戶籍法71條你看一下戶籍法71條戶政事務所得派員查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12549.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12578.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
查對校證戶籍登記資料來看是不是有實際居住的事實就是針對反制幽靈人口因為這是選罷法直接明定的違法行為而依照戶籍法當然可以去查核那請問一下花蓮的民政處處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12580.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12605.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
依法去校對提案人是不是幽靈人口有沒有查核的 有請護證聽好 護證人員去查核依法有沒有據依法有沒有據依法有沒有據嘛估計吧 71條寫的是什麼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12609.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12637.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
這個案我不瞭解本席問你 戶籍法71條是不是明文規定嘛戶政人員是不是可以去校正嘛查核是不是居住適時是不是有你人口是不是戶籍人員是不是可以做這些事情我不是戶籍法的主管機關法律規定就是這樣可不可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12639.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12653.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
法律規定是這樣可不可以做純粹法條規定他得派員調查對校正戶籍登記事項啊法條就是這樣規定再看看行政程序法36條行政機關應應該的應職權調查證據 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12667.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12694.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
沒有調查是肚子是廢 廢吃食物的行為護身人員該不該去查核該不該去查核該不該去查核依照復籍法 他應該要查核行政程序法 更叫他應該要去查核市長 不會影響你的官位啦我法條都列給你看了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12695.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12714.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我是一個事務官 不會影響我官位我不是一個政務官可不可以啦可不可以依法 可不可以依法查證行政懲罰三十六條 行政機關因依之前調查證據嘛 這法條這樣寫嘛那個案上我不評論就可以吧依法嘛 三十六條 要請副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12727.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12753.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
現在這些事實都在這裡依照行政程序法跟戶籍法戶籍人員做實地幼齡人口的查核是應作為結果你們把人給收押了政治交付的任務有這麼沉重嗎國務機關依法執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12757.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12784.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
依法辦理就被你們收押是不是要引起寒蟬效應讓所有以後罷免 罷免藍委都不能查核是不是委員法官一定都是依照那個在個案中依照本席已經告訴你法律的依據在哪裡而且是因 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12786.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12815.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
如果公務員不作為是廢詞失誤喔在個案中有關於那個事實還有證據那個判斷的餘地這都是陳審法官他依照卷內資料他才有辦法知道的你到司法院來啊是很辛苦來代打的謝謝本席不會為難你只是適度也必須要提醒你法律的規定在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12817.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12833.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
給公務員 公務人員更寬廣的自由跟空間可以做到嗎依法辦理的空間給他們依法辦理的空間給他們依法辦理的空間可以嗎給他們依法辦理的空間可以嗎本席現在講的是通案 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12840.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12867.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
是不是應該給公務員依法辦理的空間 可以嗎法官一定會依據法律還有事證來做一個公正的判斷來 次長就是你們配合無間把一個依法執行的公務員 把他收押然後現在這個霸團現在霸團在電視的Cable跑馬燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12868.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12896.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
說法政府官員已經收押了所以現在大家盡量來沒有關係用跑馬燈這樣跑你們配合的真好本席再請教你一下依照這個罷免法相關的規定罷免立法委員他的罷免人員可以有多少位可以有多少位 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12897.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12901.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
罷免立法委員叫20人只能20人而且還有很多的規定在學校在很多地方都不可以公 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12927.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12950.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
公共場所也不可以學校也不可以投開票所附近也不可以現在鋪天蓋地的挨家挨戶去敲門敲門霸團挨家挨戶敲門店家挨家挨戶叫他們連署可不可以這樣可不可以這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12953.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12962.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
可不可以這樣我們檢察官是有犯罪偵辦犯罪的機關可不可以這樣這是選務機關的權責我沒有辦法替選務機關來解釋這個這個已經直接公然的妨礙秘密罪嘛這都是現行犯啦不是嗎人有投票的自由秘密投票的自由啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12981.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13008.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
愛家戶敲門請他連署公然違法法務部是應作為或不作為你們就直接違法本席現在已經在這裡公然公然告發這個事情再過來二階偽造連署花蓮縣全國皆知4000份偽造到現在為止法務部無所動靜 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13012.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13037.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我相信各位的官位都會保持啦再下次改組但是啊歷史會留待後人留待後人尤其學法的人法律以後會怎麼來評價各位在位的人把司法是國家最後一道防線皇后的徵鈔請把皇后的徵鈔還給人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13043.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13070.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
黃次長剛剛吳宗憲吳昭偉未來的吳部長已經有講了你黃老師可以認同嗎把皇后的貞昭還給人民可以嗎可以嗎檢察官他就是依法沒有在講檢察官嘛次長可不可以把皇后的貞昭還給人民司法本來就是為民服務啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13071.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13088.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
可不可以還給人民還給人民是什麼意思皇后的貞昭可不可以還給人民公平公正的司法本來就是應該公平公正的司法我們下一位請林淑芬委員發言上午的會議時間繼續進行至所有登記發言委員詢答結束為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13105.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13108.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
麻煩副秘書長我想最近不斷發生審判中的被告逃跑 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13122.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13144.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那除了最有名的中文制的棄保潛逃那前幾天就是中文制的翻版竹北健身房虐童案的夜轉號也跑了一模一樣翻版所以今天要審查刑事訴訟法第116條之二關於羈押替代處分的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13146.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13171.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
那基本上這兩個逃跑的都是非法潛逃的啦大概都是坐船出去的吧所以這跟護照出入境禁止大概是沒有直接相關啦但是我要講這個是因為啊這像這樣的案子都是法院沒有羈押沒有限制出境出海 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13171.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13185.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
也沒有裝設這個科技的設備監控導致人犯棄保潛逃這件事情非常嚴重也影響到司法院在人民當中雪上加霜的形象 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13187.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13209.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那我現在要問你很具體的問題以中文字大家討論的沸沸揚揚中文字的科技監控原本是電子腳療為什麼突然改成電子手療為什麼它本來是電子腳療為什麼要刻意讓它改成電子手療這個電子手環 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13214.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13234.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
你知不知道報告委員這個我們只可以從那個卷證裡面獲悉當然就是直接那個新證要法官最清楚那我們從那個卷裡頭看到是說那個因為被告主張說他身上有那個皮膚病啊那就是說所以是那個身體有檢附證明嗎這一個部分的那個個案的資料我們他什麼時候改成電子手環 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13243.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13269.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
你們也不知道對那裁定可以改成電子手環的法官是誰法官是誰裁定可以從電子腳鐐改成電子手環看起來 看起來像是戴了一個Apple Watch就是承辦法官啊對啊 是誰啊裁定可以讓他從腳鐐變成手環蛤 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13273.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13298.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
你們不知道 她是113年3月19號改成電子手環 改很久了對她很禮遇啊 大家都知道中文字 連在立法院提案都可以拿錢了量身定制的修法 沸沸揚揚的更不要講你們這次的審判長跟你們的成審法官高院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13304.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13312.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
你們都還並不是非常清楚喔你們裡面誰被買了 誰有問題到現在你們都還沒有很嚴肅的去查不覺得這事情該很嚴肅的面對嗎每一個細節 哪一個成城法官才定這樣子那個 包委員這邊的資料齁那個換成那個手環的是原來的那個何怡婷就是原來做出實體判決的 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13331.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13351.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那後來因為這個送命法官他因為離職誰啊叫什麼名字啊他去當律師了沒關係啊誰啊叫什麼名字大家要問責欸不是趕快從法官退休然後改當律師就可以了那跟之後就是說沒有再延續的何怡婷是不同的何怡婷 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13352.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13373.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我現在問你,當初裁定改成電子手環,我不認為他直接就有可能收賄這種問題啊但是就是說,你裁定了這個,你要有正當性,你要有足夠說服大家,攤在陽光上讓大家相信的這個證明啊你有這個權利,你也負相當的責任啊,被問責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13376.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13403.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
幫忙委員就那個就是科控的就那個手跟腳它兩個的效力其實是一樣的效力都是一樣哪一種比較不利於被告的逃脫我們目前有的那個實證上來看就是從有那個修法之後可以用那個用可以科控就是說你不管是手或者是那個腳之後是有用的到現在都還沒有那個脫逃的所以它是一個有效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13403.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13423.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
所以腳跟手 你在說什麼 有用的都沒有脫逃的曾經有一個 曾經兩度靠近海邊對 有用的都還沒有發現脫逃現在脫逃的就是你們沒有做成裁定直接審理單上改 然後就放人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13424.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13451.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
包括周文智 包括葉展浩 那個都是你們陳審法官你們的法院都罔顧檢察官 檢察署都認為應該要繼續監控都是法院放人家的 放人家頭上出去的 你講的真是太正確了對不對 你說效果都一樣有效我告訴你 對周文智來講 戴一個Apple Watch |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13453.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13463.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
感覺比較不引人注目啦 就像一個Apple Watch嘛 對不對如果都一樣有效 幹嘛要腳的變手 要有兩種我現在講說啊 大家一般普遍認為電子手環看起來不像電子監控 很容易隱藏啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13480.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13503.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
所以你說那個卷宗你們看得到嗎當初這個法官裁定讓他改成電子手環他上面怎麼寫摩擦換布 摩擦換布每一個電子腳鐐都在摩擦換布他強制處分當然有他的目的性難道他讓你很舒服嗎他上面寫摩擦換處有舉證有證明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13511.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13514.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
有嗎?有破皮的照片嗎?有醫生開具的,認為不適當的證明嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13518.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13543.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這裡沒有原始的那個檔案我們這裡只有看到形式上的資料他的中文志為例啦他113年10月17號到期的科技監控然後在10月17號到期在10月9號審理庭上已經檢察官很明白的講有繼續實施科技設備監控的必要然後呢然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13546.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13563.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
就很奇怪啦11號上班日法官馬上要書記官聯絡檢方的助理詢問對於增加保證金2000萬的意見在書記官回覆檢察官不在時又在14號指示書記官聯繫檢察官既然已經當成 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13567.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13589.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
都已經當庭說有必要開庭的時候就說有必要繼續監控為什麼你們的法官還要這麼鍥而不捨一問再問又問當時在開庭的時候人家就講得一清二楚了一直打電話可不可以不監控暗示可不可以增加2000萬就不監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13594.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13600.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
那如果他這麼的他這麼的跟檢方不同意見為什麼不繼續開庭然後宰民在筆錄裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13603.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13630.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
所以我現在問你一件事情就是法官就強制處分用電話方式去徵詢意見的情形是很普遍嗎很普遍嗎還是葉展浩的例子葉展浩的例子是法院沒有通知檢察官到庭沒有要求檢察官表達意見進行裁定 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13632.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13638.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
罔顧檢方在偵查階段就明確的主張要申請羈押人家檢察官一路走來都認為有申請羈押的必要然後你們也不通知檢察官要來開庭然後也不詢問他們的意見就進行裁定 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13654.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13666.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
免電子監控 免羈押 然後就跑了然後你們還可以檢方跟院方互推皮球你們的院方 院方怎麼說我想看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13667.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13694.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
院方對於以審當日進行裁定釋放被告即便沒有通知檢察官這個到場了但是呢 羈押替代處分已經對外宣示 媒體未報導同案被告在準備程序前檢察官自然就會知道所以沒有因為裁定未送達無從行使變告就計的狀況 OK好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13696.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13721.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
這個檢方院方這樣子兩邊這樣子這個是你們的慣例是不是我現在問你啊電話用電話去這個徵詢意見很普遍嗎然後認為說我新聞有報導了你檢察官就不用裁定也不用通知來開庭你自然就明白自然就知道這是習慣嗎法院的習慣嗎現在法院都這麼的方便這麼便宜行事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13724.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13738.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
副秘書長有一些的訊問是法律規定是一定要做的譬如說像是那個羈押我不談這個我現在是講說應該做成強制處分正常程序要開庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13740.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13758.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
結果不開庭然後用電話詢問這是你們便宜行事方便你們法院的大改革是不是啊法定要開庭的一定會開庭那至於說開完庭人家開庭就跟你講有羈押的必要開完庭還用電話一直不斷的問還做假的這個這個叫什麼這個審理單內容上還造假造假修改內容造假跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13769.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13796.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
我現在問你電話徵詢的方式現在是你們便宜行事的替代中文字這一件他在12月9號開庭開庭本來就是一個正常的去詢問兩照的那個意見人家就說有繼續電子監控科技監控的必要啊法院端跟地檢署或是當事人有時候有一些聯繫的事情譬如說像是庭期或是什麼開庭就講有必要了 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13796.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13805.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
你們的法官真的是鍥而不捨 非要問到他說非要製造造假 到時候他沒意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13808.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13811.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
只是判斷的餘地 你們已經移送懲戒法院了 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13828.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13844.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
有關於他那個程序文本案最離譜的地方不是電話詢問欸要問的話也是法官可以直接打電話去問檢察官你們連這個都不用現在是法官的書記官打電話去問檢察官的書記官然後出現法院抽換電話記錄然後沒有正式裁定推卸責任給書記官還書記官公會出來抗議你們法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13857.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13885.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
司法院然後發生你們審理單沒有正式裁定審理單上面不斷的增補內容修改電話紀錄修改那個內容審理單上改內容電話紀錄AB版AB版強制處分的事情是這麼隨便嗎AB版你們沒有移送法辦不是移送懲罰法院喔他這樣子有沒有偽造公文書 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13887.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13913.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
公務員自己登載不實不是送懲戒法院你們內部的懲戒喔我講的是刑法213條公務員登載不實故意有沒有移送法辦涉及犯罪部分現在目前那個檢察署也都有在查了他們有案件在查了你們沒有自己主動移送這才是大問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13915.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13939.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
蛤?強制處分可以這樣子兒戲嗎?跟委員報告就是說有關於他們那個電話記錄的那個結果他們有抽換本身就程式上呢就是這個絕對是錯誤的程式什麼?程序程序上他違反了那個刑事訴訟法第40條我現在講的是那也不是你們那不是你們移送嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13940.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13958.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
這檢方自己主動偵辦司法院我們可以行政調查我們都可以行政調查行政調查我可以講完我們不是沒有注意到有犯罪的部分但是我們有權責的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13961.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13974.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
第一個就是我們查出來他有這個違反了那個四十條就是你把這個東西抽換掉了嘛那我們也查出來就是說他們之間確實不是抽換啦 篡改啦 不斷的修改啦就是說他們確實呢這兩個書記官之間呢他是有電話通聯的這個我知道了我們都講清楚了我們這個事情是第一次揭露這個弊案被揭發以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13989.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14005.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
上面是 這個審理單上面寫的不是這樣子他寫說增加兩千萬的這個保證金然後上面也偽造了一個說 沒意見尊重你們軍院審酌 請自行審酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14008.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14036.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
然後大家都發現他跑了然後媒體報導了然後 陳審法官覺得 這樣子的審理單喔這些文字內容可能他會自以為涉及不法可能不行啊所以才指示書記官再加一句啦增加這個兩千萬增加兩千萬的加保然後科技可不可以不用再 不延長科技監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14038.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14063.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
不延長科技偵控然後如果再對上你們偽造了沒意見請軍院審酌這樣就竄得起來了而且是事發之後才竄改的事發之後才竄改的所以我在講說這是一個單一個案還是你們自己院裡面真的是知識體大你整個法院的系統螺絲吊滿地不打緊啊人模不彰啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14066.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14084.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
沒有正式裁定 那請問你你們怎麼通知中文字 增加保證金的也是電話打電話 打電話通知律師喔劣勢裁定 沒有正式裁定依據裡頭那個資料是打電話打電話喔 那他打電話就要來交了喔為什麼他願意交這兩千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14085.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14096.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
他就是花兩千萬買一個不用電子手環就是準備要跑路了啊 你講有裝的人沒有一個跑得掉的花兩千萬買一個可以逃跑法院內部有人看不下去啦 都出來爆料許多的跡象都顯示這個跟一般法官處理的程序長情不服 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14111.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14124.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
為什麼要從電子講聊為什麼要從電子講聊改成手環那檢察官建議一定要延長科技監控他還鍥而不捨一定非要問到電話詢問問到 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14127.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14152.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
造假審理單上面造假最後連裁定都沒有還偷偷摸摸聯絡科控中心拆除電子手環這個問題很大喔不是單一喔還有葉展浩這個你們內部司法院內部啊真的是問題很大絕對不是單一個案那我現在再問你一個 副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14153.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14173.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
本案受命法官是不是曾經擔任過律師是大家都有媒體有報導過嗎他是不是擔任過國安密帳關鍵的被告劉冠軍的這個辯護律師包委員這個資訊我是從報紙對媒體也報導報導過媒體爆料你才知道來 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14178.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14203 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
劉冠軍25年前涉貪將近2億,檢動發動搜索以前比檢調還要早一步,就從新竹、南寮非法偷渡中國逃了兩天以後,你們現在的陳永松法官過去的陳永松律師,不只代替劉冠軍去國安局請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14205.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14215.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
還幫已經跑掉的劉冠軍申請提前退伍還製造了一個劉冠軍還在台灣的假象重點來不只是這個 媒體沒有報導的 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14217.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14235.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
由冠軍偷渡的當天 陳永松法官 當時的陳永松律師他的手機訊號也被發現 也在恰巧的出現在新竹基地台他偷跑的那個地方的基地台 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14241.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14256.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
涉嫌掩護劉冠軍潛逃司法院對這個事情有掌握嗎這個是他擔任法官之前的事件對啦 但東涌事發了你們也移送懲戒法院啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14258.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14279.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
週刊媒體也報導他曾經是劉冠軍的辯護律師還幫劉冠軍掩護假裝他還在國內這樣子的惡紀錄你們都不用再去追還發現劉冠軍偷跑的時候他可能跟他在一起他的手機號碼就是那個偷跑的地點的手機基地台 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14280.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14294.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
他可能連掩護偷跑他都有參與天底下有這麼重大的巧合嗎重大的要犯棄保潛逃都跟你們陳永松法官有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14295.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14320.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
你們說你們做調查那個司法院只能就現行的法官他在法官執行職務的時候的為私行為做監督不可能一個人他沒當法官之前的時候這個我都知道好你不用講為私行為做監督為私行為我現在問你最高法院有時候哪一天要宣判會事先通知當事人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14321.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14343.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
不會對最高法院什麼時候要駁回上訴也沒有人會知道是張文智確認在最高法院他知道要定宴了他在駁回上訴的同一天他知道他知道所以立刻掌握到消息立刻逃亡這沒有內鬼通風報信嗎蛤 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14351.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14374.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
這個部分那個最高法院他有接觸過這個案件所有的這些那個同仁全部都清查過了那個最高法院這個部分並沒有洩密我如果要做壞事我還拿一支跟你們報備過的手機號碼給你清查嗎跟對方聯絡 跟壞人聯絡嗎我是要跟你講喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14380.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14404.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
不是一件然後這個陳永松陳永松法官這一種行為對你們未來就法官考核上你們有什麼樣的建議你覺得有什麼地方可以改革的你們多元禁用啊各種各式各樣的人都會來啊那你不覺得你們在考核上面有沒有什麼地方制度面應該精進的有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14407.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14433.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
就是收集資訊的部分還必須做收集資訊你們這麼弱你們是跟我們立委一樣都還要請求給我資訊沒有資訊就什麼都沒有立法立法不用修法立法你對人家收集人家個資資訊什麼相當的吊唁你需不需要法律工具法律保留原則需不需要你們有任何意見嗎都沒有覺得說需要改革的地方嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14435.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14462.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
食物面都沒有去需要再增強去防避的嗎你看你們這種發光你說叫人家去訓施法哪有可能主委 要不要主席沒有啦 我是跟你拜託啦在野黨喔 司法院喔 今天有議長今天有秘書長不要在這裡呆呆呆這個喔 權責不相符我們在這裡問他 他也沒辦法 他也沒辦法付帳 他也呆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14465.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14488.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
是對啊 所以你拖在那裡 我說大法官跟院長這個人事上是不是能夠脫鉤處理啊對不對這樣下去我不曉得我們要問責誰然後誰能夠做決定誰能夠真正的帶領整個司法院進行改革你要他改革都沒大人啊 出來都沒大人啊 是要叫誰啊你可以嗎 你可以帶領改革嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14495.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14507.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
副秘書長代理秘書長你覺得你有辦法嗎?包委員本人並沒有代理秘書長本人是以副秘書長的職務來接受備詢對啦 那就你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14509.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14537.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
就你的立場你覺得這個改革上你有辦法去有這個正當性然後有這個其實就這個制度的完善還有說就那個就是減輕大家那個負擔像我們比較迫切那個問題其實司法院都持續一直在做減輕負擔給錢給人這個大家都同意不要講給你們需要的你們想要的通通都給你們人民想要的司法改革需要的你們要給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14539.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14553.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
是對啦 重點是在這裡啦今天是很不想要講這樣的這麼具體可是你們陳永松不是只有懲戒法院啦涉及違法當然還在調查啊對不對 這已經太離譜結果還有個夜展號 也這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14555.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14568.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
你們內部行政管理你們的程序面的管理都難道沒有可以值得檢討之處嗎你們的職務監督都只有在鬥爭的時候才有連基隆法院都搞成沸沸揚揚的嗎你的職務監督職務監督啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14574.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14591.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
你們具體一點然後作為行政改革上的指標你們上面要有一個政策指引各個法院要去改革職務監督要具體一點不要抽象 不要讓權力濫用但如果你很具體的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14592.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14601.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
那他們才能夠做得出來啊是 對不對好啦 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝那接下來我們請張祺凱委員張祺凱委員張祺凱委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14609.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14627.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
楊瓊英委員 楊瓊英委員 楊瓊英委員陳瑩委員 陳瑩委員 陳瑩委員所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢 群島結束委員執行時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14631.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14640.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
討論事項 所列議案報告及詢問完畢 決議令定期繼續審查本次會議進行到此結束 現在散會 謝謝大家 |