| IVOD_ID |
16621 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16621 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-24T08:31:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-24T13:06:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:34:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea730853615cfad272a3e12858f6389dbbbd9360bdedb085222247fd1d47fad4d15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
三、審查委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
四、審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
五、審查委員賴士葆等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
六、審查委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」案。
七、審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
八、委員李彥秀等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
九、審查委員羅智強等16人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
十、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
十一、審查委員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
十二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「住宅法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。
十三、審查委員林思銘等21人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
十四、審查委員李坤城等24人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
十五、審查委員徐欣瑩等26人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
十六、審查委員馬文君等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
十七、審查委員高金素梅等27人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
十八、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「住宅法第二條條文修正草案」案。
十九、審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
二十、審查委員林倩綺等23人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十一、審查委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
二十二、審查委員陳素月等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
二十三、審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。
二十四、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十五、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。
(僅詢答，第二十一案至第二十五案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。)
【4月23日及24日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:42 - 13:06:00 |
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SPEAKER_19 |
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16426.35846875 |
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大家早安現在繼續開會我們進行今天的討論事項請宣讀省察委員郭玉琴等17人委員黃建豪等16人分別離居住宅法第4條條文修正草案省察委員徐巧欣等20人離居住宅法第23條條文修正草案省察委員林黛化等17人離居住宅法第25條條文修正草案省察委員賴世保等17人離居住宅法第15條及第23條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2291.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2314.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
审查委员牛许婷等16人拟据住宅法第10条及第57条之一条文修正草案审查委员翁晓琳等16人拟据住宅法第4条条文修正草案审查委员李燕秀等17人拟据住宅法第15条及第23条条文修正草案审查委员罗志强等16人拟据住宅法第25条条文修正草案审查台湾民众党党团拟据 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2315.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2337.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
住宅法部分条文修正查案审查委员苏巧慧等17人拟据住宅法第四条条文修正查案审查委员牛许婷等17人拟据住宅法增订第21条之一条文查案审查委员林思明等21人拟据住宅法部分条文修正查案审查委员李坤诚等24人拟据住宅法第四条条文修正查案审查委员徐熙明等26人拟据住宅法部分条文修正查案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2338.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2361.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
審查委員馬文君等19人女拘住宅法第4條條文修正查案審查委員高金素梅等27人女拘住宅法部分條文修正查案審查委員鄭天才等18人女拘住宅法第2條條文修正查案審查委員吳佩儀等17人女拘住宅法第22條及第23條條文修正查案審查委員林倩琦等23人女拘住宅法部分條文修正查案宣讀完畢好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2365.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2393.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
本日議程所列討論四項第一案至第二十案我們今天合併詢答現在介紹在場委員及列席官員首先是高金素美委員徐欣盈委員張志倫委員王美惠委員蘇巧慧委員麥玉珍委員林倩琦委員以及羅志強委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2396.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2417.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
官員的部分我們內政部劉世芳部長國土管理署吳興修署長還有我們原住民族委員會古仲副主任委員好我們現在進行請提案委員說明提案要旨第一個我們請林倩琦委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2423.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2444.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主席福音同仁大家好針對這一次的住宅法部分修正草案本席這邊先針對住宅的成豬資格的一個調整那這邊是刪除了欲有未成年子女二人以上的限制那這整個是在回應家庭結構多元跟少子化的事實所以欲有一成名 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2445.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2460.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
又有一名未成年子女也能夠納入保障然後提升這個政策的公平性那也配合行政院在的300億元擴大租金補助專案確保社宅的這個政策一致性跟可行性 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2461.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2489.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那第二個部分呢是為了改善整個需求評估失準的這個問題那本席這邊提出增設社會住宅需求登記平台取代過去抽樣推估的方式透過即時集聚篩選功能的資料系統那能夠精準的掌握總量區位跟房型的這個需求提升政策規劃的效能也能夠加速行政的流程那第三個部分呢是強化土地的供給 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2490.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2507.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們在內容上明定了區段徵收及市地重劃取得這土地應該有一定比例不低於5%的比例作為社會住宅使用然後來確保社宅興建的用地穩定來源也解決土地取得困難的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2508.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2513.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
最後就為了促進民間參與並活絡設宅的供給新增了融資貸款信用保證制度協助新辦者來突破資金的瓶頸也降低民間投入風險強化公司協力分擔政府財政的負擔以上就比較能夠著眼在整個資格能夠比較合理需求也比較科學化土地的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2533.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2552.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
找尋呢也比較制度化還有融資的一個可行性那透過這個整體的系統化修正來實質推進居住正義然後緩解國人長期居住的壓力那原此提出本案也敬請支持謝謝好謝謝林建基委員提案說明下一位我們請蘇曉慧委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2561.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2584.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席戈同仁住宅法第一条开宗明义表示为保障国民居住权益健全住宅市场提升居住品质使全体国民居住于适宜之住宅且享有尊严的居住环境特制定本法其中第一条后段的使全体国民居住于适宜之住宅且享有尊严之居住环境是本席认为相当重要的核心理念 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2585.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2600.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個理念也因此接駐於第四條制定而應提供百分之四十以上的社會住宅與經濟或弱勢社會弱勢者的規定目的就是希望由政府提供具一定品質的社會住宅讓弱勢的民眾也能住得舒適住得有尊嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2601.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2625.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
但现行的住宅法第四条有关经济或社会弱势的规定虽纳入了身心障碍者的规定但未成年身心障碍者无法单独申请社会住宅其法定代理人或监务人若不符合经济或社会弱势之资格亦无法适用这样的状况显然有失立法意志有失公允 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2626.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2648.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就此本席原理據住宅法第四條條文的修正草案在第二項第八款納入遇有未成年身心障礙者一人以上之規定補齊現行法規對於經濟或社會弱勢者的不足之處落實政府照顧弱勢族群促進社會和諧與公平之意旨也懇請各位立院同仁支持好謝謝蘇巧慧委員的提案說明下一位我們請高金素美委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2662.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2688.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
謝謝趙偉我是原住民族主任選出來的民意代表在這裡呢我理應要幫我們族人爭取最大的權益今天委員會也列席了也希望你們天天看我的提案說明好不好那目前說全臺灣呢大概有超過六成五的原住民族的人口是居住在都市但是呢都市的原住民族在法律跟政策的設計當中是長期被忽視的甚至他的保障是極為有限這不僅違背了原住民族基本法第28條 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2690.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2707.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
保障原住民族居住權的明文規定這也凸顯了現行的住宅法在面對多元居住的需求上面的制度是有落差的因此呢本次的住宅法的修法正是為了要彌補這個缺口所以我有幾點要跟大家說明一下第一點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2708.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2729.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
針對制度的不平衡我們要要求主管機關協力來推動一定比例以上來供原住民成豬的社會住宅並且要新增投資的手段靈活運用原住民族綜合發展基金來提升政策的效率實質回應都市原住民族的住房困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2729.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2734.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第二個就是我們將住宅中提供給經濟或社會弱勢者的比例應該要由現行的40%來增加到50%以上讓真正有需求的人能夠獲得更實質的保障讓社會住宅能夠回到照顧弱勢的核心初衷 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2748.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2763.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第三個建置社宅需求的登記平台然後提高行政效率跟政策的精準度同時要強化租賃資訊的透明推動住宅資訊揭露的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2764.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2772.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
然後降低成豬人的風險來健全住宅市場的秩序這不僅僅是技術性的政策調整更是政府對於公平正義跟基本人權的具體回應我們要讓居住室基本人權不僅僅只是口號而是每個人真正能夠安身立命的保障本席呢懇請在場的各位委員還有相關部會能夠支持這次的修法我們讓法案能夠順利 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2793.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2804.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
出委委员会并且三读通过谢谢好谢谢高金素美委员下一位我们请台湾民众党党团代表麦玉珍委员进行提案说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2815.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2837.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主席好 各位親愛的家人 大家早安本次我們台灣民眾黨團所提出的租宅法部分條文修正草案主要是基於以下三項核心事實與政策的需求第一 我國房價與租金雙雙高漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2839.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2853.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
居住压力日增加剧根据主机总数资料截止113年第一季全国住宅价格指标已达到140.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2863.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2884.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
比我们11年同期上涨21.4%同时113年6月租金指标更升了106.34%民众买不起租不起的处境已非个案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2885.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2903.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
而是廣泛常態這對社會經濟弱勢的族群更是重大的壓力也直接衝擊家庭對未來信心與生意的意願第二社會住宅政策執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2904.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2930.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
量體也提升了但制度配套仍有不足政府雖然設置2021年達成50萬戶租宅社會租宅的模式目標為社會租宅誰租得起誰申請得到呢仍然制度設計的空閒因此我們主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2933.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2936.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
將出租於禁忌或社會弱勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2938.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2962.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
折的比例提高甚至50%最少50%明确张意有未成年子女纳入优先成租的对象回应少子化国安的危机建立中央社会租债需求登记平台提升政策依据科学性还有及时性 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2964.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2991.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
要求中央地方定期檢視並落實可負擔租金的原則確保弱勢租得起第三推動社會租宅信辦模式多元化提升效率與公益我們修正建議包括如下名列區段的徵收市地種化 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2993.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
3019.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
设载用地取得机制强化包租贷款政策每年包租比例至少50余元者却优先保障弱势家庭的入住鼓励民间参与并提供税收优惑如包租房东可以享每月最高3万免税金 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
3021.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
3043.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們深知社會住宅不只是一間房而是政府對人民居住安全的基本承諾是年輕家庭敢於生意的穩定支撐更是實現居住正義的核心基石因此我們誠懇呼應 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3045.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3059.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
各位委員支持本次的修法讓社會住宅回歸政策的初衷照顧弱勢減輕家庭負擔強化國安基礎謝謝大家好謝謝麥玉珍委員下一位我們請羅志強委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3076.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3095.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
主席各位委員列席的官員今天我們討論的議題是關於社會住宅成豬特別是65歲以上高齡者及經濟弱勢群體的居住權保障那為了弱勢我國對這些群體的居住保障我提出了延長65歲以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3098.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3116.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
社會住宅承租者租令以及續租期限的修正提案同時建議將收入作為社會住宅租金的計價標準根據現行規定內政部新辦社會住宅出租辦法第11條規定社會住宅的租令以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3117.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3127.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
續租期間最長為12年但是考量全體國人平均壽命已經達79.84歲而且某些縣市甚至平均壽命高達83.75歲對於65歲以上的長者來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3132.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3158.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
12年的最長租期可能不足以保障他們的居住需求尤其當長者年滿80歲的時候搬遷不易那也是對社會住宅需求最大的時候卻可能面臨無法續租的困境因此我建議在住宅法第25條條文中甄列規定對65歲以上社會住宅成租者應與以例外延長租賃及續租的期限那 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3160.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3186.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
此外許多國家在推動社會住宅制度普遍是以可負擔租金作為租金的計價標準我們目前的地方政府包括台北、新北、桃園也開始採用以收入作為社會住宅租金的計算方式為了落實110年立法院修法的附帶決議我們應該明確規定社會住宅租金計算應該以成租者的收入為依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3187.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3212.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我必須提醒依內政部的統計目前完工的社會住宅只有3萬多戶到2031年底預計能夠完工的數量大概是10.2萬戶即使是賴清德總統能夠連任任內預計會完工7萬戶所以平均每年還不到1萬戶以這樣的速度如果要完成賴總統所提的25萬戶的目標可能就是要再更努力了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3213.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3231.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那所以在社會住宅資源稀缺情況之下更應該透過修法來確保我們高齡者跟經濟弱勢群體能夠在社會住宅制度當中獲得更好的居住保障並能夠以更符合實際需求的方式繼續安住那以上謝謝大家謝謝謝謝羅志強委員的說明下一位我們請徐欣委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3247.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3267.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
主席各位委员各位列席的官员大家早安本次住宅法部分条文的修正主要在回应房价高涨与少子化的挑战透过调整弱势标准完善申请平台强化税收激励以及资讯公开 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3268.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3287.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
希望能够确实的促进社宅的资源合理的配置与弱势的保护所以第一个我们有关社会住宅市场环境严峻弱势族群住屋的权益呢亟待落实所以对于这个近来全国住宅价格 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3288.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3302.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
继指数的持续攀升房价上涨对弱势家庭带来沉重负担同时我国生育率下降少子化问题加剧使得住宅法第四条原条文中以 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3304.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3320.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
欲有未成年子女二人以上為弱勢的認定標準顯得不合時宜本席提案修正該條文為欲有未成年子女以擴大受惠對象讓更多弱勢家庭可以符合優先申請社會住宅的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3320.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3349.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
以减轻住屋负担第二个建置社会住宅需求登记平台以利资源配置以及政策的执行现行社会住宅采个案完工后再开放申请导致资讯的掌握不足无法全面的统整全国的需求本席主张增订主管机关建置社会住宅需求登记平台要求所有有需求的民众可以先行注册 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3349.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3366.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
提交申请资料经审核后具申请资格此举既能简化申请流程避免民众重复填报也可令政府及时掌握需求动态促进资源合理配置与政策动态的调整 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3366.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3394.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
第三个鼓励民间的参与提供免税的诱因为了鼓励民间住宅所有权人积极参与设宅的供给本席提案对租金所得减免规定进行修正凡采用包租方式办理并作为长照身障托育服务或幼儿园使用者每屋每月租金收入的免税额度调升至从1.5万元调升至2.5万元 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3395.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3419.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
此措施可降低房东出租成本活络租屋市场实现市场与弱势需求的双向平衡同时维护税收公平最后第四点住宅市场资讯要透明政府要收集分析以及公布有鉴于住宅市场相关资讯透明度不足本席建议主管机关定期收集分析并且 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3420.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3441.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
公布的資訊中新增租賃住宅市場不同的物件型態屋齡之每平均數與中位數的價格資訊以上敬請各位委員公決並支持此修正提案謝謝好謝謝徐欣穎委員下一位我們請翁曉琳委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3453.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3469.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
主席還有在座的各位官員媒體先生女士大家好本席這一次提出社會住宅出租這個與住宅法第四條條文修正草案那主要的修法重點有兩個一個呢就是要提高給出 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3469.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3492.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
提高出租给经济社会弱势的比例从40%提高到50%一个呢则是要放宽要件降低育有未成年子女的子女人数不以育有未成年子女两人以上为限制那本席考量的理由呢有两个第一个就是目前房价高涨许多 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3493.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3497.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
年輕人還有經濟弱勢社會弱勢的民眾他們買不起房甚至也租不起房屋那麼期待能夠租到社會住宅我們知道我們目前台灣推動社會住宅政策主要目的就是要保障國民的居住權益以落實居住正義那政府在日前也勇敢的提出了121年 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3518.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3532.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
社会住宅的规划目标是50万户包括要设宅新办25万户与包租代管25万户那么中央和地方机关也都很努力的要去新建社会住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3534.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3559.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
推动包租贷款 因此本席主张要提高社会住宅 提供出租给经济或社会弱势的比率由现在至少40%的比率提高到至少50%的比率 才能够照顾更多的人民第二点理由就是少子化 我们知道目前拥有两胎家庭的 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3559.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3587.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
这个户数是低于五成所以有必要放宽限制我国胎儿出生数是持续降低子女扫子女化的扫子化的问题非常严重从一百零九年起出生率已经低于死亡数那么生不如死而且呢依照内政部护身师的统计十年来国人大部分都是只生育一胎所以从一百一十 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3588.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3599.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
年之后生育一胎的就已经超过五成了在此为了要保障育儿家庭的居住权益减轻国人养育幼儿的负担 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3600.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3618.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
本席因此提出修法不以育有未成年子女兩人以上為限那麼降低就是未來只要是有生育一胎的家庭都可以申請住宅那麼在此提出修法那麼希望大家能夠共同支持謝謝好 謝謝翁小林委員的提案說明下一位我們請黃建豪委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3636.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3643.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好謝謝主席安排這次的修法過程本期提的是住宅法第四條修正的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3644.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3669.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
主要是要給予婦嬰未成年子女家庭優先入住的權益第一個當然核心問題就是要點出我國現在真實面對的所謂少子女化的問題第二就是說我們的修法過程裡面希望說不影響原有的經濟或社會弱勢的比例因為現行法預有未成年子女兩年以上的家庭他是同時需要符合家庭總收入未超過主管機關公告一定標準的才可符合資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3670.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3695.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
但是我想為了鼓勵生育的部分應該要開放更多育有未成年子女的家庭來入住社宅那我想我國的新生兒人數統計大家可以看到數據的確是一直往下降那本來大家期待說去年理論上大家看好的時候能夠停止這個連續副成長的農年我想但是去年的結果還是一樣這個數字還是創下史上的新低那所以整個少子女化的主要問題在於晚婚跟不婚 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3695.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3717.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那國人晚婚的趨勢明顯結婚率也持續下降當然影響生育人數那就其原因當然育兒大家不想結婚的還有原因就是說第一是高房價那後續當然教育費用托育支出等等的育兒成本也增加所以說家庭負擔也增重所以我們提出這麼多的政策我想最核心而且經費對各個別家庭對個人支出來講最龐大的就是房價的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3719.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3738.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那所以我的版本是將這個育有未滿12歲子女之家庭納入新的一個優先的比例50%那我是說不要從現行的事不是從社會現行的社會經濟弱勢的百分之四百分之四十裡面去來分出來而是另外在針對育有未滿12歲子女的部分來處理那我們要特別強調的是我們的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3739.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3756.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
不要不會影響原有的經濟或社會組織者的權益那我們希望從這個社會素材的角度來出發給予這個未育有未成年子女的家庭更多的支持那這樣的修法好可能不見得我當然也知道說不見得跟這個出生率有必然的關係但是我想任何政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3757.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3785.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
只要能够尝试我们在针对少子女化的部分都应该进行相关的尝试那现行法的部分当然现在是有规范育有未成年子女两人以上有优先权但是他因为还需要同时符合所谓家庭总收入会超过主管机关公告一定标准的才有资格所以他等于还是在所谓的经济社会弱势里面那我们也看到说我们内政部提出的这个今天的这个书帖里面提到说担心这个如果把这个所谓的 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3785.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3799.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
弱勢或者是經濟弱勢等等這個比例過高的話會有造成標籤標籤化的疑慮我想正是要回應所謂標籤化疑慮我們更應該讓更多的所有育有未成年子女的家庭能夠入住社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3801.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3829.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
在社會的定義裡面並不僅只是提供所謂社會入住者居住他還提供了多數的育有未成年子女的家庭能夠入住我想這樣也有效的能夠來解決所謂標籤化的問題同時也能提供我國的年輕人在住宅政策上面他能夠有個安身立命的地方我想他有安身立命的地方他才有可能去思考不然結婚或者是生子的問題所以以上我提出今天的修法請各位能夠支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3831.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3841.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好謝謝黃建豪委員的說明接下來我們要請內政部劉思芳部長針對住宅法的修法進行報告劉部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3849.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3871.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
周委早各位委員大家好感謝各位委員對於內政業務的關注跟指導今天大院的內政委員會召開會議審查提案住宅法部分條文修正的草案我應邀前來報告並被質詢針對本次委員們所提案修正的條文我們做一個整體的簡要說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3871.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3890.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
首先多位委員所提案的社會住宅應該加強租金負擔能力並且擴大原住民青年學子等弱勢居住保障以及納入尊重性別平等觀點的部分按照現行住宅法及其執法各目的事業主管機關皆可依規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3890.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3905.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
自行或獎勵民間興辦社會住宅並且按照其需求城中人負擔能力等情形興辦專攻原住民或學生等群體所需的社會住宅按照現行實務作業也可辦理此外 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3906.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3936.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
社会住宅应该避免排挤社会资源分配与标签化若是户在成租比例与标准实在不宜任意的调整跟放宽申请租金补贴的成租人非住宅所有权人未必能够提供详尽且正确的租赁资讯如果要求提供并且定定罚则恐怕会影响申请者的意愿以及引发变相处罚成租人之负面疑虑让政策协助弱势租屋族群打折 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3936.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3957.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
另外内政部已经运用全国的租金补贴资料公布两次租金统计资讯以及补助地方政府执行居住状况的清查作业除了能够达到提升资讯透明目的以外也可以由地方政府按照其住宅状况自行规划清查的对象 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3958.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3978.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
第三提供民间新办住宅必要融资贷款的信用保证并非本部的业务那么为了加强社宅用地的取得除了社会福利基本法以及都市计划法等各项空间社福计划已经明定提供社会福利土地及空间 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3978.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3994.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
內政部已經提報行政院整體開發地區社會住宅土地規劃及取得實施方案的草案預明定地方政府應該留設一定比例土地做設宅使用實務更為彈性以及可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3994.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4011.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
另外住宅法在110年修法将公益出租人及包租贷款房东租金收入免税额由1万元提高至15000元已经提供适切租税优惠此外为了减轻租屋者税负的压力 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4013.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4024.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
113年度綜合所得稅的結算申報已經將房屋租金支出扣除額改為特別扣除額曾租人每一申報戶可列報最高18萬元若再就經濟強勢之房東上調優惠額度恐怕會導致租稅不公的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4032.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4054.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
所以仍需维持租税公平性与财政纪律的考量之下不宜针对涉宅包租案件数量明定户数比例避免影响业者执行与房东释出房源的意愿住宅法系保障国民居住权益健全住宅市场提升居住品质使全国国民居住事宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4055.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4072.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
并且享有尊严的居住环境为了实践我国居住正义的重要为实践我国居住正义的重要法律之一本法在112年刚刚经过修正为了维持法律的安定性如果再做大幅的修正的话 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4073.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4093.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
恐怕不是維持法律安定性的一個必要的思考當涉及學生原住民等社會福利事項內政部也會積極的與教育部、園民會、衛福部以及地方政府等部會來做溝通促請各目的事業主管機關跟地方政府按照權責滾動式的調整跟檢討辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4095.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4122.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
最後針對114年到121年的8年住宅政策的新目標內政部已經擬定百萬戶租屋家庭支持計劃的草案透過直接興辦社會住宅社會住宅包租貸款以及租金補貼這三大政策目標努力達成另外透過老宅延壽整建維護工作發揮在地老化在宅照顧的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4123.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4144.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
让社会住宅满足不同族群以及多元化的居住需求及居住权益充分提供民众多元的选择落实更完整的住宅政策实质来减轻国人居住的负担以上仅就大院委员提案修正法律的条文内容做二要的报告敬请各位委员多多指教谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4146.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4173.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
好謝謝謝謝劉部長的報告其他單位報告請委員自行參閱我們就刊登公報現在進行詢答委員質詢前原地做以下幾點宣告第一本會委員發言時間六分鐘必要時延長兩分鐘非本會委員發言時間五分鐘我們上午十點三十分截止發言登記第二因為今天法案處理我們就不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見好謝謝那我們現在進行詢答首先我們請登記第一位徐姓委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4182.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4184.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
謝謝主席本席有請劉部長部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4191.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4212.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
您早部長早辛苦了連著兩天首先本席想請教政府之前一直宣稱已經達社宅目標20萬戶但剛剛羅委員也有提到你應該知道目前完工的有多少吧目前完工有入住的是3萬但是再過幾個月會達到9萬戶9萬戶預計什麼時候達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4219.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4237.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我請署長跟您回應一下報告因為我們大概在這個截止到三月底大概中央家地方大概是接近三萬四千戶但是我們陸陸續續在也就是說我們在這一期的計畫就到121年剛剛因為部長有提到即將達到九萬戶那九萬戶是預計什麼時候達成沒有九萬戶是 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4246.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4269.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我說明一下因為我們大概是分期分階段沒關係嘛9萬戶大概預計什麼時候達成9萬戶的話可能還要再4到5年4到5年好那為什麼我們政府新聞各方面包含公聽會都一直宣稱說已經達20萬戶說明一下因為我們本來就是在一開始呈報社宅計畫的時候他的定義就是說政府已經發包 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4271.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4290.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
所以是發包的 20萬戶就發包不一定是完成的那我們因為這樣對整個不管是政府的預計或社會的期待還是有一些落差所以有沒有 請問部長有沒有在想說如何提升我們社會住宅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4291.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4309.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
完工比率怎麼樣來加速我想委員會常了解那個蓋社會住宅我們確實要如期如質所以我們現在真的是我們也很急但是蓋的部分就是按照品質要能夠完成可是因為我們剛剛在報告的時候有特別提到百萬戶的租屋家庭計劃裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4310.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4332.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
就是社會住宅現在的入住率跟完工率沒有那麼 入住率很高啦完工率沒有那麼高的狀況之下像包住代管或者是租金補貼等於是其他的備變的措施能夠在那個這樣子的一個緩衝期裡面提供給很多尤其是年輕學子的做這個住屋上面的一個補助但是我們還是希望看到就是這個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4334 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4359.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
完工的速度能够掌握好那再来一个是完工另外一个就是全国社宅的目标数就是它的需求到至今好像一直没有科学化的调查所以政府是不是有计划全面建置社宅需求的调查平台确保这个数据是比较准确而且透明呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4361.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4386.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
說明一下 應該是這麼說因為現在全國的社宅大概在六都各自有您的意思是說六都各自有在掌握 對那其他縣市呢其他縣市的部分基本上都是中央興建的我現在是說需求度你們有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4387.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4409.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
需求度現在是沒有所以是有沒有考慮要掌握呢跟委員報告因為他會跟這個他會跟這個把這個各地方的需求的審查標準其實都不一致因為各地現在都會根據自己的社經狀態那你中央主管機關你有沒有要各地掌握嗎不然你都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4410.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4430.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
就有點像市場的需求我們真的民眾的需求那你怎麼去訂定我們的要做的目標應該這麼說因為各地他也會看你的所謂的租金的水準那其實第二個也會跟他現在的所謂的租金的這個所得跟身份的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4431.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4452.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
這個分級制所以他會各縣市會不一樣但是我們身為執政我們中央政府難道我們都不需要掌握到底考慮進去嗎每個地方租金不同每個地方需求不同但我就是要知道大概各地的需求是多少依據他的需求也比較能量身訂做吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4453.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4475.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
也跟委員報告啦因為其實基本上我們先用全國的總量在看的時候我們現在是用一個標準的2.5%不是你全國總量看你可以是六都掌握然後各縣市掌握匯報起來你們整體的掌握所以跟委員報告啦因為我們現在第一步是先用全國的總量的比例來先抓一個總數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4476.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4500.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
然後到各縣市去投入的時候現在是依各地它在一定的人口數以上那我們先去開始進行涉窄的投資所以本席請教就是說你們有沒有在進行這種需求的調查平台要限制嗎第三個就是現在都有陸陸續續在進行但是就會跟委員報告是說因為我們還要統一訂定它的一個審查標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4502.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4518.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
他的這個資格的審查標準那依據各縣市不同我們會去訂那訂了出來才會讓民眾去登記這件事情所以朝這個方向然後加速來進行嘛我們希望政府一定要掌握需求你才知道怎麼進行嘛好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4519.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4539.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那再來想請教就是包租代管中計畫中的仲介業者被指好像經常被指說他是重視數量忽略品質甚至有發生排除高齡或者是單身男性的這種現象所以我們政府有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4540.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4552.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
計劃修訂相關的管理規範來提升業者服務的標準並且完善的申訴管道最重要我們也要保障一些弱勢者不被排除這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4553.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4575.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
跟委員報告其實在做包租貸款的部分應該關鍵這麼說對仲介業者來講他是負責媒合跟中間的管理所以其實基本上大概也源自於現在的租屋環境很多房東大概有一些房東大概可能對長者他可能擔心他身體有狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4576.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4601.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
長者還有單身男性為什麼會是單身男性有一些是可能地緣的地緣的關係他才會有這樣的問題有些地緣的關係他擔心男性的話譬如說房東是女性他可能會擔心有一些所以我們大家了解其實對仲介他並不會去排除做這些服務但你們有沒有這個規範相關的管理規範跟我們報告就是說有關租賃方面的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4602.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4631.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
調穩的部分那其實地政司這邊都很努力的在朝向把這個租約的一個規範能夠做得再平等再努力再加強還有完善的申訴管道這些大概都需要這個部分我們現在跟工會在聯絡保持讓提高那個業界的一個服務品質所以這些問題如果有問題民眾有問題都可以跟我們工會或是我們縣市政府然後包含內政部來反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4631.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4661.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
好最後最後這個我們社會住宅的中遷率偏低部長您知道嗎是嘛那有沒有想過怎麼樣來改進這個其實就是數量不足啦數量現在還不太夠啦所以現在加緊就對了對我們還要該興建的趕快興建然後有一些可以包租代管的你們這邊做好的這種統整還有一些鼓勵措施嘛是剛剛有講好OK那今天到對最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4663.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4677.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我們在各縣市需求納入比較精準的規劃或者是保障有沒有一些配套措施保障弱勢群體的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4678.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4701.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
優先的被考量?因為現行的規定就已經有了我們剛一路一直講說要掌握需求有沒有在建這個DataPay其實現在的弱勢戶的比例還有中遷率其實是高於一般戶尤其我們現在有初步統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4702.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4727.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
弱勢戶的在六都現在的狀況他的平均中簽率是一般戶的2.5倍到3.5倍有沒有在建置這個data data base其實資料其實在弱勢戶的部分本來資料都不只弱勢就整個啊我們從我剛剛第一題在問的對就長期的話才要慢慢去你們已經開始建置了嗎對就已經開始在收集資料收集資料對收集資料有沒有時程你什麼時候這種資料庫會建立起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4729.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4758.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
跟委員報告因為我們必須透過行政上的作為逐步去強化所以沒有設定什麼時候要做出來那你這樣根本我告訴你明年後年在這個議題在質詢的時候你都還沒見跟報告是本來就有一些資料庫現在是說如果照委員講的要全面照全國都要的話那當然要一些時間因為非六都你站在中央的立場你當然要了解全國的情況是所以我跟委員報告現在六都的部分大家都已經逐步都掌握了 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4759.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4786.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
但是在非六都的部分會搭配著我們的社宅的主部的完工那其實他就會在當地去收集這樣的一個資訊那這些資訊就會建置成一個平台的一個概念在會上面去統一去做一個資料的一個流通啦好 我們希望盡早看到完善的這個整個資料庫系統還有我們能夠掌握全國的需求 謝謝好 謝謝徐信英委員下一位我們請麥玉珍委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4801.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4803.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
所以主席有請部長部長有請部長早 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4807.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4831.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
依據我們政府目的就是在2023年底就是完成我們的新辦的社會住宅還有包租貸款合計20萬戶的住宅但根據2025年第一季的資料說達成就是10萬零剛才說多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4833.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4849.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
10.6萬戶嘛最進度甚至是只有53%此外長期目標在2032年達成50萬戶依然就是平均一年就是1萬戶的速度顯然是福大的這個福大餅卻無法 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4856.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4876.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
實現請問我們部長對於此明顯的落差政府是否有加速的機制還有說張這個墓地可以展現或者讓人民繼續失望呢現在我們政府都在造謠騙百姓沒護照其實有護照騙百姓有住宅其實還沒蓋就是這樣子的感覺我們可以回應一下嗎那個有關住宅的故事我可不可以請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4884.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4912.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
根委員報告其實我們自始的這個社宅的興建計畫在講的所謂的達成本來就是含這個發包的部分那現在全國現在全國中央的部分大概都已經陸陸續續在進行中的已經有超過了7萬戶以上的這樣的一個興建跟完工的一個數字現在持續還在增加當中那地方的部分到目前為止也有5萬戶的部分現在也在陸續所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4912.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4921.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
原本在講的時候所以我才會報告自始就講的是發包發包就算在裡面發包算在裡面還有在2023年 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4928.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4944.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
2032年的話是完工到2032年12萬戶是一定會完工是一定會完工所以10年後會完工就是包含在你說的數據裡面是一定要做完工就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4944.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4969.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
不是 所以我才跟委員報發包會有發包的數量也就是說我們原來在所提到的2032年是25萬戶的直接興建那這個部分都會持續在進行那目前來講在這個在118年到122年我們都陸陸續續就會把這一個部分12萬戶的部分一定都會完工這個部分是沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4970.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4994.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
好 所以說達成就是的目標還差一大截所以我們依據我們內政部的地政司最新的公布在2024年3Q全台房價所比例為10.9倍創歷史最新高的代表說我們家庭需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4994.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5004.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
不吃不喝11年才能買房所以我們全台的房價的負擔率為40.28%六都普遍突破50% |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5010.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5021.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
已經遠超過我們國際建議的安全值所以我們在政府除了租金補貼外是否從真正的從房價管控還有我們的市場的資訊要透明去著手 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5029.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5058.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
所以我们希望说大家就是要不要说就是针对我们租金的部分的话我们是否说有一个结构性的改革计划包含就是抑制投机炒房还有调控建商土地的垄断具体的做法还是说我们在政策行销上就是花把在 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5060.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5062.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
涉件 請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5069.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5088.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
報告委員那個對於房價的部分其實行政院有訂定一個健全房市方案那這是由我們內政部央行還有像財政部相關單位分別從市場面像我們平均地權條例就有兩次打草房的修法那也有一些建議值已經超過我們國際的建議值所以說我們這個就是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5094.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5104.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
大家就是租得起買得起不是再來報告而已我們要有一個明確的政策真正的對我們人民有幫助因為目前我們看到的租宅就是標準的不一甚至說部分地區租宅已經接近市場但是呢我們嚴重的背離就是社會住宅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5121.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5135.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
原来应该具备的公益性还有可负担性那是我们民众提出的社会租债修法草案我们民众党提出的建议弱势成租比例以原本至少 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5138.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5141.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
40%也提升為至少50%但是政府現在沒有在採用所以說我們的平台登記系統也是沒有看到啟用雖然是說住宅法在25條授權地方政府可以所得的集計調整社會租金 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5163.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5167.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
涉宅的租金 但縣市定於標準差距真的是很大比如說台北一房 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5172.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5176.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
租金高達是一房而已9000塊但是呢我們屏東不到5000就導致就是租金不一致嘛所以說就是可負擔性所以我們要強調的就是照顧弱勢為針對就是統一租金計算機制與比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5196.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5198.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
才能達到我們人民的需求不要說中央跟地方之心落差管理斷層又如何去補助我們上次我們要去就是在新北的時候有去就是去場看 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5213.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5227.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我們董建宏市長在那個社會租宅的公聽會中也說有承諾社會租宅租金所得的分級會在年底前會公布請問有沒有具體的時間我們認為年底也是太久了啦希望說這個會期是不是可以提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5235.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5250.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好跟委員報告有關於這一個所得分期制的這個部分其實跟地方政府已經陸陸續續大概開過八次的會議了那現在都已經有相關的共識那所以現在正是在草擬這整個的一個作業當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5251.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5255.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
所以什麼時候日期時間預計年底還是確定年底你們都預計討論再討論我說我們要預計年底還是確定年底要有一個明確的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5270.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5292.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
就是預計年底之前都是預計 每天都預計在研議工作就是這樣 預計在研議應該是說明了 因為各縣市的差異仍然都有存在我上次有去新北市的場勘的時候每一棟社會住宅 從北到南 只有一個建商在管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5293.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5309.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以就慢半拍嘛所以呢每一間的進度就是沒有達到60到70%現場我們張宏祿委員還說如果是照我們建築的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5310.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5319.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
早就要給他們罰款了但是你們還是一樣沒有在做管理所以呢我們實際上也沒有達到這個目的我們一般我們不管是買房還是租房都會介紹說我們的房子的周邊10到20分鐘我們有什麼措施這樣子的比如市場啊學校啊公車站啊或者長照幼照啊公約區等等工作的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5339.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5359.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
但是我看到你們的把整個是什麼社會住宅在中間把整個新北市所有的措施把它放在裡面所以我覺得好奇怪呢林鄭要給人家就是這個社會住宅的周邊去調查你們不是把整個放在裡面這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5361.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5366.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
就糊弄我們而已所以呢還有說我們要問說你剛剛講的是最基本的但是我看到的是這樣子啊還有我們說我們要如何替調查我們社會住宅裡面我們要建的一些公共措施那你們說我們問周邊的鄰居周邊的鄰居住在裡面嗎沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5385.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5404.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
因為社宅也要跟周圍的鄰居要和睦共處所以是要大家所以關鍵為什麼也要周邊區一起融入所以你們要去調查所有的大家的用調查不是只有問周邊周邊沒有住在裡面所以才會有全市全區的一個調查資料調查是問周邊不對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5407.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5410.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
你聽我講完等一下要跟你回我們要問的大家我們要調查是地理環境的需求這邊已經有了市場了我們就不要建在裡面或者裡面我們附近又長照了我們的社會住宅就不要去建是這樣的周邊調查不是去問 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5429.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5448.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
周邊的人這個社會住宅符不符合他們的需求這樣子的建這個社會住宅是因為我們要變民不是平民不是把社會住宅的人框在裡面我們建這個社會住宅針對這裡面的人的需求但是又空間不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5450.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5476.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
連我們活動中心有的有幼兒園有的是有長照有的也沒有完全沒有我去看的是這樣所以你們口口聲聲說不要分族群不要指的歧視但是你們的行為就是沒有去調查的需求你們就是要把平民貧富差距還有說沒有突破城鄉的差距所以我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5478.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5490.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
調查所有的十分鐘、二十分鐘的地方有什麼我們這邊就不要見哪裡有什麼,這樣子才是真正的辨明了讓我們在這邊出的成績但是你給我看到的是這樣你講的跟我看的是完全不一樣所以我們希望說你們做跟講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5503.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5519.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這些不但都有而且會跟新北市政府跟地方政府都有去溝通所以也會跟地方政府都有詳細溝通調查的資料如果是真正的居住正義要把青年族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5520.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5529.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
老年族群還有弱勢族群新住民的族群平均分配在社會住宅還有說我們不要把社會住宅我們要突破這樣子的平衡的差距啊所以委員這會跟你原來提案的內容就不一致了 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5537.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5539.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
提案是我們需要更精進但是我看到的我覺得我需要跟你們建議因為我們要脫貧我們不是在2030年還是說我們才建好所以你2030年就是表示說你們希望我們台灣更貧窮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5561.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5565.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我們應該要怎麼樣去脫貧 讓說我們建好的住宅如果是大家你覺得到那時候才可以住的話大家等也要死了 等到那一邊也沒辦法住了所以說我希望說我們讓台灣的年輕人已經不是努力了不努力而可以被這個制度狠狠地去壓垮 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5587.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5595.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
政府真的想實現居住落差的正義所以請別再就是空放的口號欺騙人民而且拿出具體的行動還有強化執行提高透明化不能再讓年輕人一代就是在社會住宅的路上租不起又買不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5608.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5629.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
就是買五萬這樣子的政策居住正義不是口號希望大家就是我們要怎麼樣符合我們現在的人民的需求不是要去講空話二三十年 十年後才有我們希望的是有真正的脫貧的方案謝謝好 謝謝麥一貞委員 下一位我們請蘇曉輝委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5645.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5668.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
好 謝謝主席主席我覺得這個主持議事當然是讓每人盡暢所欲言不過這個時間我是建議也可以控制一下這個剛剛前一位可能相對來講久了一點我們不希望每個人都這麼久對 但是如果等一下有發言比較長的的話主席我想公平對待是比較好一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5670.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5689.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我們應該該講的就讓大家講嘛那重複就不用再一直重複了嘛對不對對啊今天早上是我簽第二個是其他委員其實是簽錯格子我想好心說讓給他結果這樣我一等多等了快要20分鐘這實在是下次不換了好我們請部長跟署長部長跟署長有請好 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5694.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5708.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
部長跟署長我覺得每個委員都平大所以每個委員就他的觀察來描述狀況我們當然無可厚非不過身為一個第三屆的區域委員服務新北要十年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5708.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5732.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我想在這幾年當中陪著我們的行政部門一起在不敢說台灣至少新北各地我們興建了社會住宅光是我服務的樹林英哥我們就有英哥的安居然後樹林也有這樣的社會住宅在興建我可以看到其實你們每一場說明會都是跟著在地居民我們李林長大家都組團組隊非常關心到現場去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5737.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5747.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
其實我看到的是我們每個人都充分的對在地即將成為我們鄰居的這一棟大社宅未來要搬進來的住戶們想像的狀況跟公共有的空間大家都熱烈討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5752.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5771.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
而且裡面的社宅要到底要拿保留多少成分來做公共建設的部分其實也是跟周邊居民跟新北市政府也就是所謂的在地政府其實都有討論非常的多那個署長我記得很多次根本都是你親自主持的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5772.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5787.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那你要不要跟我們說說看這個簡單說明一下我們在做一個地方的社宅規劃的時候到底是怎麼跟周邊以及在地政府來共同決定設計這一棟社會住宅要長成什麼樣的模要有什麼樣的規模以及設備是跟我們報告其實我們在決定在選擇一個地方的時候第一個一定會跟當地的 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5798.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5816.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
當地的縣市政府一定會先討論大概次數都多少次啊大概至少六七次以後然後決定以後還會在地方先開公聽會先了解民眾大概對我們這一塊基地的一些看法公聽會會參與的是哪一些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5817.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5839.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
就是在地的黎民 而且含周圍可能30個 甚至包含在地民代嘛所以我才有身份可以進去嘛 民代還有30周圍都會進去討論所以我們從頭跟到尾 光是要到底是同樣的公共空間要有是托育 還是托老 還是是這個黎民活動中心的替代等等這個每一個都大家非常非常多的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5839.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5859.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
如果你要把所有的公共建設都放在耐動建物裡面那耐動建物就已經不是社會住宅了所以你必須要取捨取捨的過程就是大家共同來討論本來就是這個樣子的那我是不曉得其他委員到底是看到了什麼樣的東西我想你唯一要檢討的可能是給委員看的東西你可能要特別注意一下看委員看的懂看不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5860.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5887.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
能不能够跟在地平常有连结我觉得你可能要注意一下这个部分不然每个人的经验不太一样也许他没有跟着一栋社宅成长这样的话可能会比较有误会不能理解你的资料这个你可以再讨论一下好那我们再另外来看一下我今天想要问你我在这个提案说明的部分就有说到我们的社会住宅既然是为了要让大家国民可以有事与且尊严所以我们在第四条 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5888.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5912.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
列舉了經濟及社會弱勢的身份有13類其中的一類是有身心障礙者那我在這裡發現的狀況是因為我們未成年人是不能來申請社宅的嘛所以你的第7類別身心障礙者表示他可以申請那是表示他是成年的好那如果我的家庭當中是我的未成年子女是身心障礙者但 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5912.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5932.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
因為他未成年啊所以這樣子有身心障礙未成年者的家庭反而就變成不能來做我們現在的社宅申請人我認為這個地方是可以斟酌的所以我今天直接在質詢的過程中提問部長及署長請問內政部是否可參考我的建議在這一條你們的態度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5936.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5959.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我想這個是實際執行上我們要去注意的啦所以這個部分是不是因為原始定義是在跟衛福部討論的那既然這個中間或許執行上有產生這樣的一個問題我們是建議先讓我們可以跟衛福部直接透過行政的協商把這一塊直接納進去會更容易不一定要立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5960.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5976.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
如果是這樣子的話我是建議這個部分因為它是明確規定這個是可以有文字修正的空間因為它本來就已經是列在法律裡面是入法的樣態但因為我們保障的家庭所以我認為這條有修法的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5977.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6007.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
好沒有關係因為我們今天只有詢答要到下一次的真正修法之前我希望內政部跟衛福部可以進行過討論我們在修法的程序當中可以直接就這個來做這個條文做討論這是第一個第二個的話呢我上次有質詢過我們設宅大概是三年一起然後得續住一次嘛再接續申請一次好可是我們進去之後常常是年輕人年輕的夫妻那他們可能有了小朋友小朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6007.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6025.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
長大剛好6歲左右的時候是要申請入小學的階段那麼在入小學的階段我戶籍在哪裡就會非常非常的牽涉到你實際居住地碼然後你的申請學校是哪一間這就是入學規定的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6026.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6046.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那當然也還有在小學的過程當中如果你換了居住地址了之後是否有要轉學的部分當然那是另外一件事情但剛剛在入學的那個門檻確實是一個家長最需要安定的時候所以我曾經提出考慮就是詢問這個內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6047.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6077.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
在這樣有學齡兒童的狀況他的入住條件或續住條件是否可以再考慮您的意見如何跟我們報告的確啦因為在很多家庭來講在面臨學齡尤其學齡到了他必須要有準備入學的這樣一個狀態下那這個的確是對於社宅的條件他可能會有更強烈的需求包含他可能連房型他都有不一樣的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6077.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6095.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
對那但是因為所現在的問題也在於社宅的總數其實還不到那麼多那如果就升多周少嘛就是目前的狀況嘛持續延長就會讓下一輪的會變少沒有錯啊但是在行政措施上當然第二個也有可能他要考慮學區對他也可能必須要搬離 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6096.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6111.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
因為剛好就是我們最卡關的時候那個就是在決定要念哪一間小學的時候啊所以有關這一點我們也參考了委員大家的一個建議啦就是說針對這一個婚育家尤其是育有未成年子女的家庭的部分那這個部分呢我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6113.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6140.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我們是比較目前朝向在社宅的總數還沒有辦法衝到一定的數量的時候我們是不是來考慮來訂定相關的一個專案的一個政策來協助這些育有未成年家庭的他能夠更安定那不一定是在社宅裡面他可能在其他租金補貼或什麼他享有更好的這個照顧讓他能夠放心的即便我是要挑學區我不住社宅了我還是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6140.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6157.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
找到適合的房子那得到政府更多的補助我了解你也注意到這個問題我這樣可以感受到一你有注意到這個問題二你也有在想對策啦但我們因為詢答的時間就是這麼短可能沒有辦法講得很清楚所以我想這個用這兩個題目來跟內政部這邊交換意見的其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6161.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6177.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
社宅大家都喜歡因為他照顧到了經濟弱勢那或者是現在社會弱勢最需要居住正義的族群好大家都喜歡的狀況下社宅現在正在興建但還沒有到足以應付所有的需求者 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6178.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6206.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
所以當然就會產生了很多的從入住條件開始一直到續住條件還有中間的租金等等這些面向大家都會有很多不同的意見可是我必須說如果是我們用這樣的一部法律來規定的話就必須要注意到法是強制到社會的每一個面向每一個地理位置每一個溫層不同的區塊層面通通都規範到了所以我注意到剛剛署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6208.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6230.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
部長有提到你提到了行政措施這個概念也就是說在我的觀察來講因為問題太多太細太繁雜了所以你剛剛的說法是不是在社會住宅的這個政策上面需要為行政行政措施保留一個空間這是你剛剛的意思嗎我解讀起來是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6230.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6249.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
各位委員報告我們也是希望透過比較多的行政措施而不是立法行政措施上能夠針對每個時期不同的需求我們去做一些彈性的一個修正那但是因為立法是比較剛性的一旦做了就是在一定的期間變全國通他不能隨意更動 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6249.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6265.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好 那署長因為我們已經討論多次不只是在這個質詢台上面啦所以那我今天具體的要求是不是可以請部長署長這邊喔我們社會住宅應該也實施了一段時間了吧現在大概是已經六年了六年剛好就第一輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6265.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6283.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
第一輪的這個入住社宅的在就是包括三年加三年續住的這樣叫做第一輪嘛剛好完成嘛所以我覺得現在是一個很好的檢討的階段你是不是能夠把這一個第一輪完成的狀況到底發生了哪一些問題然後你現在提出的哪一些對策是不是可以列舉並且 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6285.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6314.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
並且我是強烈的建議把各縣市政府就是六都因為六都有時候是自己興建的會有自己的規定那六都以外的大概就是中央代為興建所以會有很多不同的規定同一個問題會有不同的規定比如說學齡兒童可能就有不太一樣的狀況還有租金也會不太一樣的狀況那是不是可以請你把這些所有目前的社會住宅的相關規定以及它的優劣意見整理列表 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6315.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6341.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
讓我們在修法的過程中一起來討論哪一些是繼續保留行政措施讓它有彈性有空間甚至可以因地制宜縣市不同有不同的規定那哪一些又是覺得已經都這個實施下來都很棒應該要調整那我們就讓它剛性入法全國統一也不會優惠措施不一樣我想提這個建議不曉得部長署長覺得如何其實感謝 感謝委員其實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6343.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6364.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
委員提這個建議也是我們最近有在思考的應該要趁著這一輪已經做已經租完一輪了然後把所有的問題都彙整那我們本來每半年都會有一個縣市的大平台的會議那我們這就把它從現在就開始去收集這些議題在大平台會議去討論把它聚焦以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6364.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6382.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那其實都可以提供給大院裡面這邊我是希望這個資料可以盡快提出因為如果我們要修法的話一定是要有這份的資料主席你站起來的話這樣就沒意思了你不要亂動啊我自己說謝謝就好我有看時間啊好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝主席好謝謝蘇曉慧委員好下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6398.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6417.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉部長跟吳署長劉部長吳署長有請好謝謝部長跟署長那先要討論的是這個住宅法的修法那其中有一條比較重要的就是第四條就是關於一些經濟總家庭收入平均比較這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6418.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6439.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這個比較沒有符合到主管機關的一個標準的就是經濟狀況比較稍微比較差一點的這些的家庭那現在有個修法的裡面的一個款裡面應該是第二項第二款裡面說是不是可以考慮把這個未有未成年子女兩人 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6440.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6462.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
以上把它改成育有未成年子女的這個部分來去做一個修法的動作那我們其實現在可以看到當然是我們委員立法委很多委員想說提供提出這樣的修法就是針對現在少子女化的一些問題來去做解決那我們可以看到新北市的社宅在今年的114年1月1號其實他也有一個新的規定就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6463.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6488.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
新北市政府決定社會住宅招租比例中匡列10%的名額提供給2名這個子女上的家庭做申請而且來採收簽字其實就是說不管是在地方他也是針對這個有未成年子女的部分來去做一個比較闊讓他可以比較多人的一些的使用那我們現在在中央的修法是說是不是說因為現在可能少子女化的問題其實現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6490.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6505.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
根據統計一個家庭可能生育的小孩子不到一個人所以這樣子的修法其實我們希望說這個內政部是可以做支持的一個動作可是沒有想到說內政部今天提出來的報告是說認為你們有你們的立場是 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6506.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6532.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
希望不予修訂喔那所以我剛也特別請教衛福部的一個問題是說現在來講是不是像我們符合這條這個住宅法第4條預有未成年子女兩人以上者的人數其實是越來越少的所以如果把它改成只有預有未成年子女的部分上其實是不會有任何的排擠效果所以是不是有這樣的狀況所以我剛要請衛福部來說明說這樣的人數是不是沒有太大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6533.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6545.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以內政部是不是可以來協助不管在從新北市這樣子幫助少女俗女化的部分中央的部分是內政部可以來協助說也來支持這樣的這樣子的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6546.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6569.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
有關那個剛剛委員所提問的部分我想先綜合跟委員講一下新北市政府他提出預有這個未成年子女兩人以上那表示說他有其他的母法的支撐所以他在行政措施上自己就開放了沒錯沒錯所以他可以匡列的人數匡列的範圍更多嘛所以因為中央有修法地方也可以徵召嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6569.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6582.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
是那就是剛剛我們所說的因為全國有22個縣市那我們如果可以在行政措施上做這個滾動式的調整然後不要用剛性的入法的條件因為我們剛性入法的條件到目前為止是40%的這個弱勢戶是110年修到現在是3年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6588.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6602.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那這個部分呢也就是剛剛所說的其實它並不違反就是新北市政府或台北市政府或是桃園市政府他們有自己的一個入住的條件申請的條件那其實都不違反住宅法那這樣的狀況就是我們剛剛所說的現在的那個社會住宅的興建完成入住的量還沒有達到一定規模剛剛我們署長有跟大院報告過現在剛好這個六年的時間剛好到一輪的話是不是我們在收整 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6617.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6633.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
其他縣市政府對這些方面的意見的時候呢我們再來統一這樣子我們會更審慎而不是衝突就辱罵所以謝謝部長的回應所以我的意思是說因為現在台灣少子化的問題嘛所以育有未成年子女兩人以上的人數是不是整個家庭人數越來越少 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6634.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6663.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
所以如果說把它改成育兒未成人之旅就變成說一個人也可以的話其實人數的部分是越從過去以來人數就這樣的家庭越來越少嘛所以如果我們做一個修法的動作的時候其實可以讓更多的比如說已經收入已經在政府低於某一個層級以下的這些家庭他不會說越來能申請的總量會越來越少所以就是說修法完了以後就可以跟內政部跟衛福部討論一下如果人數的沒有差距太多的時候其實我覺得可以支持修法好不好 拜託署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6663.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6672.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
把這個資料統計一下我想這個後續我們也會再做一個統整性的討論就是說現在有一輪出來了那其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6673.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6701.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
因為這會跟未來社宅興建的房型對 因為我就有統計如果要那的話連社宅興建的房型那一類的全部都要做一些大幅的更動所以我才會說必須要透過一個統整第二個呢因為社宅興建的數量沒有辦法快速的成長那所以可以透過其他的行政措施來彌補這一塊來提升意願也是一個做法所以這個會需要整個政策上的一個整合整合應該有完整的一個配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6701.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6722.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
而不會說只有反映在單一的興建社宅的這一塊是這個意思那後續我們會後再討論那第二個還是我比較請教就是就現在內政部整個的概念來講其實社會住宅的定義不只有社會住宅興建以及包租代管以及租金補貼整體是含在整個的範圍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6723.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6738.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
可是我之前一直在討論的點就是說租金大家希望說租金市場越來越透明那這部當然也有提說出來說你們會依照租屋股貼的數字統一去統整說整個租金的整個市場的價格可是這個東西其實還是沒有那麼的即時性 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6739.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6749.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
而且地域性而受到限制所以至於上次有提到請教的一個點就是說租金補貼的數量越來越多可是相對來講租金申報的比例相對來講越來越低這個問題所以當時我們要開始討論是說像我現在有實價登錄房屋買賣實價登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6755.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6777.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
要求買賣雙方要付申報的義務那有沒有可能租金租屋補貼的部分未來也有可能比照這個我們的買賣的實價登錄所以是房客還是房東你們有沒有這樣演繹的部分說如果未來可以做申報的話租金租屋市場可能越來越透明而不是有這個政府單位在做後續的統整再來公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6779.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6801.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那個也跟委員報告一下這個我們也大概評估過可能會有幾個必須要去考量第一個部分的話有關於租金補貼的民眾其實他不是專業的一個人士所以你要求他去填那些資料可能他資料的填的部分可能正確性就會有問題就是政府要輔導就像之前那個實價登錄也是政府輔導一陣子了嘛好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6802.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6820.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那第二個部分的話其實我們租金補貼是要協助民眾來做一個租屋那其實民眾可能也會顧慮到他的個資或相關的資料去做揭露以至於他不願意來做一個申請這可能也會影響到民眾來申請政府一些協助的目的不過現在應該應該是說現在都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6823.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6837.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
請這個租賃業者嘛來去做實價登錄的一個部分如果租金補貼的話就不會經過業者了我要了解就是說其實現在有一個規定就是有這個申報的一個動作就是就是這個租賃業者來做申報的一個動作嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6838.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6862.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
所以就是說我認為政府在這邊部分的說我沒有說馬上就要怎麼做所以你們可以研擬一個未來可以讓整個租屋市場更透明的一個逐步性的一個措施以及辦法就供你們做參考好不好那個部分的話有關於租金統計的部分我們現在半年固定以後半年也會以後半年都會有一次嗎那當然是希望說可以越平凡是越好區域性也可以越好不是一個區一個區為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6867.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6885.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
好那第三個我還是要請教就是民眾所如果有需要社會住宅就是新建社會住宅的這個民眾所長期還是要請教署長的問題就是說現在這其實排隊還是排非常的久那當然剛剛有提到的一個問題是說就是因為現在數量還是不夠多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6885.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6901.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那我現在請教署長是不是有重複登記就我了解如果你現在在入住社會住宅的時候其實你還是可以依照你的需求登記不同的社會住宅比如說我未來有依照我的戶籍或者我的學區或者我自己本身的需求可以登記其他社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6903.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6927.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這個部分 這個國土署會內政部有沒有一個想法說有沒有一個限制就是說我是所有都可以登記還是說我只能限制登記兩三個而不會造成大家每次在領這個號碼牌的時候都是兩三百號兩三百號那個心情會覺得說好像沒有完全看不到一個盡頭那我也認識很多的朋友其實抽社會住宅了以後其實六七年他都抽不到新的社會住宅等等的一個問題那是不是請署長有沒有重複的問題其實對社宅來講因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6931.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6955.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
對很多民眾來講他可能是一個生活圈的概念也就是說或許我住在板橋但是呢他覺得他上班的地方我可能在新莊那我可能在中和所以他可能在選的時候他就會覺得那既然我有我是以生活圈的概念去他可能這幾個區他都去挑那這個我們也沒辦法去禁止他因為從生活圈的概念他是正確的那這也是我們認為說為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6956.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6972.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
去主張一個大平台大家都去填反而會造成這個數量是暴增的沒錯就是數量會讓人家覺得有點暴增到會覺得你更難抽那所以才會說我們為什麼在這一方面會很審慎的要繼續評估也就是說因為你很難克服那個地域性 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6973.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6991.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
他的一個需求那也跟剛剛也有委員提到還有學區的問題沒錯有些還會為了學區再特別去加抽好那署長實際的關係就是個問題因為本席的選區在中和啊也常常跟署長會跟這個住宿中心開會那因為我們有11個社會住宅那本席是說我大膽 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6992.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7007.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這一個建議啊因為社會自然興建過去可能就是一些國有地可能在做臨時做停車場或是一些綠地的一些部分喔那本期之前都有需要都是有提說其實你們都做得很好就是會有一些比如說這個讓周邊的民眾比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7009.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7025.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
長照日照或托嬰托幼中心或是李明的共享空間我覺得都很好那可是因為人數在這個空間裡面的人變多了停車需求會變得更高那所以我在想說社會住宅是不是有有可以就是規定說一定的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7025.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7051.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
就地下室的停車位一定的比例可以開放給周邊的民眾來使用比如說5%、10%因為我相信你們在做社會住宅的規劃的時候一定常常開會的時候都會有討論到交通問題、環境問題跟停車問題你們有沒有可能研議說我們的社會住宅有百分之多少的比例那邊有沒有在研議說多少比例要提供出來給周邊的里民來去做租用 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7051.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7055.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
然後讓大家可以真正更歡迎我們社會住宅的一個一個到來 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7057.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7083.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
的這個建議啦因為其實各地都有類似啦那其實現在的狀況只是因為說涉及到管理問題那所以過去也有曾經有這樣的案例但是事實上後續的管理呃衍生了新的糾紛啦那所以這個部分我們也會委員的建議我想我們會持續來討論尤其是針對某一些個案他如果真的周圍在地這個需求非常強但是實務上要怎麼去處理我想我們都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7084.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7092.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
個案跟住戶中心再來討論看怎麼解決這類問題拜託署長以及住戶中心大家都很辛苦謝謝大家謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝張志倫委員的質詢下一位我們請張宏祿召委質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7108.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7127.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那就不用動了啦部長麻煩了我先請教署長其實我們現在所說的社會住宅大概有分成中央興建跟地方興建的兩大部分是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7130.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7156.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
是不是 是 是嘛那中央的他的一些辦法跟地方的一些個性式的辦法有沒有全國一致目前沒有因為各地方政府還會有他因地制宜的一些方法沒錯啦 這個其實你說各地方要求跟中央我覺得也不盡合理你以這個我們雙北跟你比如說其他的一般的 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7157.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7179.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
不是彰化什麼的這不是六度的我看條件都不一樣這也不適合說全國都一致那問題來了署長會長請教一下那我們今天如果修這個住宅法可以解決我說的這些情況嗎事實上還是很難因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7181.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7206.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
你太剛性的立法下去以後會讓他地方實務上可能會產生一些執行的困難所以我們才會覺得說比較需要多一點反而是透過行政措施或行政協商盡量能夠一方面照顧地方的需求但是一方面又能夠確保社宅這樣的政策是順利的在進行是通常會用這樣的方式來進行立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7207.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7231.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
是一個很明確但有時候立法又不適合全國一致的標準這其實我覺得我們從這個點去思考可能就是會有很大的問題我想再繼續請教一下就是說我們現在解決住宅的問題應該是分成社會住宅一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7233.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7255.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
然後這個什麼租金補貼啦或什麼的這又是其實就是很重要的一塊我們目前台灣是不是大概比較重要是這兩塊來解決住宅的問題是其實基本上大概就是直接興建租金補貼跟包租代管三個政策來協助所有的租屋族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7256.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7283.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
對啦 租金補貼跟包租代管 我認為他的性質比較一樣啦齁不然你 我請教你 你一個就好了齁那你覺得這兩個 兩大資助啊現在的運行起來 其實有沒有解決了大部分的問題了是 不不我請教一下部長謝謝委員現在除了直接興建住宅以外齁我們包租代管跟租金補貼加起來互數 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7285.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7307.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
已經高達八十五萬也就是說至少有八十五萬戶的人是接受政府的這個社會住宅或是租金補貼的一個協助而且都集中在都會地區比較多因為都會比較會需要這個 也跟工作性質有關謝謝部長 部長你先回去坐那再來喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7313.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7338.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
署長這剛剛布宅已經講了解決了大部分但我們必須要承認還有一些布還有一些問題沒有解決像剛剛我看應該有很多人關切到這個議題在修法的裡面有可能關切一些議題比如說住宿宅的設宅的人我們現在是六年嘛最多嘛可能這個青年人 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7340.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7354.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
他這個六年他小孩子剛好要上小學了剛好又要搬遷其實這一點倒是可以思考一下如何去補足這一塊吧我不知道署長你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7354.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7377.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
了解應該是這麼說因為有可能他入住的時候他還單身或是剛要結婚所以他很可能在抽的時候他去抽了這個單人房但是他已經遇到小孩子出生要甚至要上小學他開始要分房的概念的時候其實那時候就不是社宅續租的問題而已他還有轉換房型的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7378.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7396.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那這個就會讓我們現在的這一個直接興建這樣的一個困境會出來就是說你成長的速度還不夠快但是你也面臨了下一輪的問題那所以這也是我們在過程當中一直希望透過像租金補貼包租貸款這一類的輔助性的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7397.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7422.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
提供更多的行政上的措施來協助他們你不是只有直接興建的可以選擇你也有其他的可以選擇那我們來強化那一個部分讓你在這個轉換的過程當中那當然社宅抽得到最好那抽不到你還有其他的方式來進行那這樣的話能夠讓他的居住的租屋的環境能夠更穩定我想這也是一個比較好的一個替代的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7423.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7431.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
好 再一個問題我們弱勢啊雖然我們現行的法律的規定大概40%嘛是但實際上 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7434.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7461.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
也實施好幾年啊他們實際上啊 真正入住的比例是多少根本報告大概我們跟六都都有去調查過了那大概實際上的這個因為他除了弱勢戶以外他還可以抽一半戶所以他等於有兩支籤的機會那所以至少都已經是46到56之間也就是說都是弱勢46到50也就是說正式來講他已經過半了 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7463.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7477.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
實務上他已經過半了所以這也是我們在擔憂這一次的修法如果他一樣握有兩支籤他就會可能掏垮六十幾甚至衝到七十這樣的問題會跑出來其實我為什麼要特別問這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7479.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7494.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
其實弱勢的定義不一定只有它是中低收入戶其實我們的定義我們現在的法令來講它的範圍蠻廣的啦就弱勢是不是蠻廣的是嘛當然弱勢我們要特別照顧這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7495.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7514.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
沒有話講但以現在實際的執行上來講你說已經超過50而且中簽率是一般戶的2.5倍到3.5倍數字我要跟署長報告一下我跟你說數字是冰冷的啦你剛剛講說46到56其實我也覺得這個範圍有點廣這1XXX%很難說服大家但 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7524.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7548.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
可以有一個很清楚的就是說因為弱勢他是可以抽兩次這個可能大家都不知道很多人不知道他是可以抽兩次所以他的中籤率就會比較高那我們如果說提高到50%我看可能提高到六成那你有一些青年人 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7550.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7577.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
他可能就被排擠到囉一些青年可能就抽不到囉應該說青年那個族群是更大的一群但是他的種籤率又會越來越低他可能那個總數是更大的但是他可能種籤率會更低這也是我們比較擔憂另一類的排擠的問題我的意思說如果你提高到50%如果這樣的話青年那一塊可能青年就很多人抽不到嘛所以啦署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7577.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7600.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們剛剛簡單的討論幾個問題啦你覺不覺得啦其實這個社會住宅從蔡英文總統開始大力推之後其實到現在啦雖然執政八年但不可能第一年的做吧要編預算要編什麼吧大概第二年第三年開始蓋嘛對不對那到現在也大概有好幾年的時間了嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7602.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7624.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
署長 是有沒有需要一個總檢討的時候了就是我們推行一項政策大概一段時間了可不可以去檢討這個政策利弊得失然後我們去再稍微精進你覺得有時間點到了嗎對 根文報告也剛好今年很多社宅都是第一輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7624.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7647.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
已經就是六年已經處理完畢了已經出租完畢了那都已經進行第二輪那這也是剛好可以總結一些問題的涉宅直接新建涉宅的問題那以及來討論後續的解決對策那所以這一個也看我們會找六都一起來討論看看他們對這一方面的一個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7648.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7670.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
甚至回饋到我們整個的這個直接興建社宅的要面對的問題來做一個總檢討這個部分我們會來進行實際上我真的覺得啦今天的很多的修法其實有一些觀點他是對的是出現了問題了但你們也說你們也在檢討也在做了我覺得啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7671.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7697.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
與其我們這邊在這樣子我覺得要給你們時間你們弄出一套你們的想法你們的解決對策什麼的來給我們內政委員會然後讓大家來思考如何去改進你覺得可以嗎這個我想我們一定會來會朝這個方向來做可以啦好謝謝好謝謝張宏祿召委下一位我們請王美惠委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7707.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7712.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
主席 我們請市長 請你休息一下吳署長有請 委員好市長 辛苦在今天探討的主宰法裡面我們要探討的 應該是加以核大部分因為我覺得這個規定當中像剛才張宏祿早前說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7735.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7747.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
你的弱勢拿高一點,現在不一定40%因為我們煮粥的時候就是10%嘛開始意義,覺得不足不足,到現在40%嘛40%的時候,今天有 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7751.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7754.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
整個啊,我們當然可以說,都提供到50%啦但是在這裡面,我所擔憂的就是說,我們的弱勢要照顧,年輕人我們也要照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7766.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7773.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這是最重要的,說到那裡,像高麗就好了,高麗在北京,我們已經在派友中的美女的眼前,安寮已經發飽了,但是還沒工作,到現在還欠工的時候,安寮不知道當時的眼前也不知道, |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7791.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7800.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
但在這個過程當中,嘉義市有很多年輕人都回鄉回來也有年輕人看到嘉義市好大好做生意,對著他的抱負他也很愛在嘉義來生活所以在這個生活圈當中,年輕人像剛才所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7816.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7828.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
年輕人會排擠到是不是這樣來這裡輸掉你為何要這樣這就是我剛才所報告原主席的這個抽籤在大概6歲的部分他目前規定40%才會輸出已經實質上已經是破50%了因為就是說已經有救了 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7837.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7847.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
他可以抽兩遍所以他的機率就比較高嘛是是,所以你如果救50%以上我們煩惱的他就是會衝到60%到70%這樣挽留我們這個像他比較年輕人或是說他當他有工作,當他有工作開始在做有需要的時候,那你有需要結果他的族群是非常大但是他的重簽率會越來越高越來越高,越來越高他反正這個弱勢族群的重簽率就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7864.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7887.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
已經差不多三倍,一半後的三倍你如果叫我管的時候,他的重簽率會更加高所以這邊會越來越高,我想對這個年輕人來說因為現在房價上升,他又等於有收入結果我沒辦法買房子的時候,我等需要做房子的時候結果這部分的重簽率會更加高這樣我想對他來說,他會更加失望,我想這就是我們這個政績中 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7889.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7901.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
救出一個兵型的時候我們必須要考慮不一樣的族群的族群裡面的一個兵型的問題對啦 因為署長說實在的我們每一個族群我們都要去照顧我認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7906.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7926.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
你的照顧當中,我們都說到弱勢,弱勢更加要照顧,對不對?但是最先前,我們想要去社會住宅,就是基礎正義,再來去社會住宅嘛是不是這樣?是嘛,在這個規定當中,我覺得每一個官司的訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7932.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7940.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
賣一定是一樣的像嘉義,我剛才跟你談到這個也很大觀的再來未來嘉義市,未來鐵路高架開始漸漸完成的時候,要聽到他們附近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7951.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7971.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
所以在這裏面,我們也有可能,我們的地方政府把你們的中央用專案來處理,也有這個可能啊你有沒有想到,因為當時現在有的去鐵路高架,因為一本身可以說住在車頭附近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7974.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7993.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
比較都是在台中所在的醫醫比較很弱勢的就是這個問題的存在所以我剛才說的每一個官司每一個官司的訴求跟需要是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7994.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8007.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
市長你知不知道我自己的需要可以跟你說的這個問題可以來頂跟中央因為這件事來彌補一下來做專案有可能嗎來市長你講一下委員報告啦因為你像現在那個鐵路哥計劃的這個補分它一定做成 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8019.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8035.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
某一些程度的拆遷這我過去在台南有處理過一樣的問題所以台南那時候用的是安置住宅是用安置住宅但是這不是每一個地方政府都可以一定用這樣但是我想可以比較好的建議是它有點類似可以找 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8038.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8067.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
公寓的好,就是說類似用都更的方式我去另外辦一個叫做安置出租住宅,它有可能是地基間的也有可能是做一個六棟、十棟,那就叫安置出租住宅那是兩岸,用類似都更的方式,我想加以其來公寓地也有但是對這個公寓地就是說,它不一定是當局一定要做這個提供的部分但是你就可以讓類似用透過都更,它是部分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8067.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8082.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
是做出一百萬可以做土地的出分但是一百萬它的公益性設施就是做安置出租住宅這樣的話呢可以提供給這裡的因為這個鐵路局計劃它沒有地方大 現在沒有地方大它可以來這裡做我想這也是一個改革的方式對啦 因為市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8086.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8092.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
因為我們要發展到要想到我們的白色地方需要什麼問題可以來解決,然後等到之後還要來解決要來找可能也不會有,回家過到本地也不會有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8102.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8105.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
在這裡本席跟你談到在這裡也希望我們地方和中央會有一個合作的機會再來本席要跟你談到的就是說我們嘉義市的北港路有個案的規劃裡面在最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8121.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8125.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
你們有來同意他們來做的時候,未來你們要怎麼去做?地方有需要什麼嗎?因為我覺得這是自己的人所擁有的地方,因為我覺得有自己的故事說出來,就會發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8143.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8148.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
可以加一條而已所以說這是對嘉義市政局的發展跟經濟很大關係但是我也認為我們的中央可以繼續合作對應因為我說實在我不愛分藍綠也不愛分東排只是對應的發展再做好不然有時候說實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8170.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8173.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
你們做到老高,風險到老大,這樣就不好啦所以在這裡,你有需要補充,我們加二次,北京路的區域生育會發展,協助什麼,請你回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8187.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8208.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
感謝委員已經 蘇蝦跟我們問很多遍了我相信這案因為拖太久他伺服過去已經拖十多年都不好處理了處理的過程中 內容一直變更都是大幅度的變更所以我們責行這審查委員覺得說他現在所作的內容已經被十幾年前他提出來要做個人變更的理由已經完全沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8213.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8232.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
所以...所以...但是呢,他考慮到北京樓的這個...但是一定沒工的嘛,時空背景不一樣,當然...所以...所以可以跟他說,這個保安啊,原則上我們是支持但是呢,因為你的廠所已經完全都沒工了所以退黨,叫你退頭,會公開電纜,你要退頭先開始做第二,這是一個...所以過程中... |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8240.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8248.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
主席,不好意思,我讓你解釋一下,你說加以管治聯合作為作為,現在有一個國會聲音說,加以管如果不同意加以治做,加以治又不能做,是不是這樣?應該是說,加以管政府,不管是在這個電影政府的公開電纜,跟企圖會的審查過程中,它會當標識意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8265.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8268.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
甚至到內政部的時候,他也可以標示意見對啦,是標示意見發展、公開、大家相擁啦是是是你是說,加議官,同意不同意齁來做先加議事,會發展啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8281.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8295.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
當然中央的角色一定是說地方政府一定要聯合一定要合作你不可以說是互相抵制但是我們不可以忽略對方的需求啦我相信這是一定的嘛主民黨大家都好這樣互相照顧你也好我也好這樣啦我們希望看到是這樣啦希望看到是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8302.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8308.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
抱歉,今天我要利用這個時間問候咖啡廳的發展,因為有很多百姓有時候沒了解他想說跟中央那樣,都沒得替咖啡廳來想辦法,這樣就不好了在這裡本省也要拜託咖啡廳,因為咖啡廳的政府也有非常認真發表 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8326.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8338.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我希望我們中央家庭保障 能夠將七八公路這條路來完成 加上加上旅館 做一個橋樑讓他們能夠更好地溝通 以上謝謝王美惠委員的諮詢 下一位我們請黃婕委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8357.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8374.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請署長好 署長好今天因為其實都是在談論這個租屋的正義那其實租屋的正義包括非常多的面向所以前面我想要先討論一下最近在我的選區有一個非常紅的日本飯糰店 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8375.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8393.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那這個飯糰店他紅到什麼樣子呢就是這幾天大家為了要聲援這個老闆所以每天都去排隊支持他們那他們的週分是什麼其實也跟這個租屋的合約有點關係那當然其實大家就是在討論說這個租屋族啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8394.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8413.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
就是到底房東可不可以隨意的漲約那當然合約都是白紙黑字寫得非常清楚那再加上他們是租店面嘛所以是商用的契約那這個商用的租賃裡面當然就是回歸民事的這個就本來就是雙方協議不可以隨意漲租那不然就是照民事的這個合約下去走 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8414.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8429.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那可是呢還是有非常多的選民因此來跟我反映因為其實他們平常是租屋族然後他們遇到的狀況差不多很多都是說第一個就是要準備要續約之前房東就跟他說要跟他漲租不然就不能續約 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8431.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8444.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那另外一種就是在合約期間當中可能他一次跟你住三年那他在第一年的時候就跟你說要隨意的調漲那不然就是說之後也就不讓你租了那這種情況其實屢見不鮮 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8446.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8467.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那我想要问的是说其实在世界各国针对这个租赁其实都有蛮多的专访那我在这边举几个例子就是以美国加州来说就是如果房东现在要涨租那涨幅在10%以下房东必须要提前30天通知那如果你一次的涨幅超过10%必须要提前90天通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8468.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8497.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
就是他在调整的这个幅度跟他的时间都是有一个非常明确的规范的那英国也是看他的租期不同他的年租如果是年租的话必须要在六个月以前通知六个月哦然后如果是月租就是必须要在提前一个月之前通知那纽西兰也是说你至少要在六十天之前就要书面通知如果你想要跟访客之间的契约有变化的话 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8497.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8520.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那日本也是甚至日本是有一個借地借家法他們有個非常明確的租賃專法裡面是說如果房東跟房客之間他不想要再租給這個房客了必須要半年之前就已書面通知而且必須要寫上非常明確的正當理由才不可以就是你才可以跟房客終止合約喔所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8522.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8546.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
相對國外其實有蠻多對於租屋族這對這些租屋的權益是有更明確的保障的但是在台灣好像租屋族都是無可挖牛必須要到處流浪那甚至我自己租的經驗非常多就是租了大概十年的房子那也都是必須要看房東臉色看他要不要租給你看他要不要漲租看他要不要有一些更多的條件的變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8546.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8566.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那所以我在這邊是希望說不知道國土署針對這種房東跟房客之間的權益的保障可不可以有進一步的研擬進一步的建議 甚至未來有沒有機會我們也來擬一部租賃的專法呢根本報告這個部分因為在部裡面它是屬於地政司的業務是不是地政司 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8567.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8587.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
委員好那有關於我們一般租屋族的住宅租賃的部分其實委員剛也提到在我們定型化契約裡面已經有規定到租屋約期間不能任意漲租的規定那如果有相關問題這個包含我們的消保單位都可以來協助民眾來做一個處理那委員剛剛有提到一個部分就是國外有些 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8587.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8612.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
對於住宅租賃的部分也有提前如果你要解除租約終止租約前房東要在多久以前去通知房客包含說可能他租期的長短不一樣可能會有不同的做法其實我們有收集到這些相關的資訊那其實我們在做一個租約的一個規定的一個檢討的時候其實我們現在也有把它收集我們會做一個滾動的一個檢討來更保障那個民眾的一個權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8614.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8638.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那你們目前是打算要收在哪個現在可能在定型化契約的部分的應記載不得記載事項裡面看可不可以先去做一個檢討的規定不過因為其實這個部分的話我們也在收集相關的租屋族有沒有相關的問題因為我們那個規定也剛修過所以可能會在下一次的通盤的部分的話一起來做一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8638.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8663.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
好谢谢说明那可能就是未来会在这个住宅租赁定型化契约应记载及不得记载事项跟或者是有没有机会在消费者保护法里面有更多的权益的保障那如果可以的话希望下一次通盘前逃的时候再把这部分就是包括提前多久然后必须要告知然后还有就是这个明确的书面的理由这些都要写上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8663.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8686.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
好謝謝好那再來繼續講這個社宅這個社宅其實我們也講了很多次了啦那我覺得最大的問題包括因為其實我從在當議員的時候就不斷的在講社宅的輪候制那甚至是還有這個租金的一定比例的透明化然後還有就是可以入住的條件資格等等其實都討論非常多那我覺得最大的問題還是成量不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8687.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8707.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那成量不足這個問題實在是現在都是各地必須要一起來努力啦因為以高雄來說因為我們市政府非常配合就是我們努力幫忙找地然後努力幫忙協調在地的鄰里的關係然後努力幫忙協調在地的一些使用的方式所以呢目前其實高雄的進度都還算蠻順利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8709.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8725.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那我這個覺得當然要跟各縣市再努力再協調啦只有再努力再協調才可以把全台灣各縣市真的有辦法空出來的地全部找出來來蓋社宅嘛那這個是目前要達到存量最大的目標那我算了一下喔因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8726.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8745.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
應該是說我們還是要再繼續往前看怎麼說呢因為以目前我們內政部門目標8年20萬戶目前其實最大就是包括把興建中以絕標還有在規劃中的全部加起來就是大概18萬戶啦我必須老實說嘛目前就是這樣那如果達到存量的比例大概就是1.9% |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8746.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8768.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那其實以國外來說我還是要講一下先進國家裡面的社宅存量的比例是非常非常高以歐洲國家來說荷蘭是29%然後英國16%然後丹麥19%芬蘭18%瑞典18%那以亞洲來說當然亞洲相對低但是以日本來說社宅的存量也有5%那我們是1.9% |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8769.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8792.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
而且我是加上興建規劃然後絕標全部加起來全部就是只有1.9也就是說當我們存量不足的時候我剛剛提的那些制度問題包括可不可以趕快輪候制啊可不可以趕快把資格條件放寬這些都很難往下討論因為我每次講完我前面那些我都已經討論過了包括資格條件可不可以再寬一點啊然後趕快讓輪候制進場 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8794.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8820.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
然後甚至是全國有一個統一的登記的平台這些大家才不會抽籤抽籤率這麼低嘛可是討論到之後每次國土署都說存量不足真的就是沒有辦法往下走所以我在想是不是這個存量的問題可不可以優先的解決然後目標再往前放18萬戶還是太少啊全國如果我們最後真的全部完成了1.9%耶亞洲最低都有5%是 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8822.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8846.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我們其實也是努力因為即使到下一階段我們大概也是到2.5%2.5%就是我們認定的低標啦我們起碼要先努力往那個低標邁進那這個低標25萬戶都出現了那這個就可以去談有沒有這一個全國具體的一個輪候的統一登記卷輪候的否則就會像我們剛剛所講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8847.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8855.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我可能為了自己的生活圈需求我就一直在重複登記而且重複登記越多其實大家實現的輪候會越困難這也是我們在考慮的一個問題所以這我們還是會努力的往這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8862.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8888.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
達到2.5%這樣的一個存量的目標先來邁進好謝謝署長那這個就是一起加油那因為其實這個輪候制我真的也講很久了啦所以如果可以我知道有一些地方也開始試辦那如果可以的話其實還是可以先並行然後之後的話我們就慢慢都朝向輪候的方式去改因為確實歐洲的成效還不錯那我們也都看到這個是我們可以遵循的方向好謝謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8892.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8917.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
好,謝謝黃街委員的資訊,下一位我們請李博義委員質詢有請署長吳署長有請委員好今天很多委員的提案都是針對住宅法住宅法其實包含哪些人有資格住,他可以住多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8918.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8929.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那這些包含弱勢的比例到底我們希望把它放到哪一個程度那包含弱勢那另外年輕人到底我們要怎麼獎勵他 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8930.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8948.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
年輕人他住在社宅裡面他現在目前有兩個小孩他會有比較優先的資格之外有沒有要再放寬這個都是今天很多委員提案的內容裡面的一些法律提案但是社宅其實從 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8950.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8975.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
2016年開始倡議到2022年其實我們就做過一次住宅法的修法但到2025年也就是今年其實第一批的社宅其實剛好大概很多比如說林口比如說有些地方的社宅滿6年的那滿6年會遇到到底政府的政策是要輪動還是說政府的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8977.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9005.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
針對這些目前所提出來包含弱勢包含很多種原因的人他有沒有多住幾年的空間這都是接下來要討論的而且在從2025年開始從今年開始包含我的選區從實安居那包含我高雄市有非常非常多以高雄現在在招招台積電進來那在台積電周邊光是左營男子光是左營男子周邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9006.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9032.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
兩公里到三公里的社宅就六千多戶正在已經決標凍土包含重石、青峰、永青、海附、海景、福山還有G20有非常非常如火如荼的都在進行但這些社宅目前還沒有成型那高雄市政府跟我們國土署還有住戶中心也都很積極的在 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9033.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9063.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
在找這些可能可以在興建社宅的土地可能可以興建社宅的土地如果遇到被重度標籤對未來這些社宅的土地取得還是會有一點影響這些都是政府必須要面面俱到的去關心的我想另外今天還有一些針對租金補貼針對房東房客當然政府你一定希望這些租金是 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9064.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9086.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
逐步透明而且平穩那房東希望什麼房東就是希望他可以不用繳最好就是這個免稅額度可以提高這也是在今天很多修法的內容裡面但是我們要保障房客的是什麼東西我們要保障房客的也希望房東不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9088.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9117.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
因為這種不愉快然後房子不租給房客讓房客有不安全感那另外我們也希望透過租金補貼的方式來取得相關這些租金的這些逐步的透明化讓這個租屋市場平穩這些都是在修法內容裡面我們當然都支持弱勢我們當然都希望保障房客我們也希望鼓勵房東把這些房子拿出來做公益出租但是怎麼樣取得一個平衡都是接下來我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9118.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9139.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
跟署長要做一些很精細的討論的東西啦所以在這邊先我們先不如果說下午沒有進入這個討論的話我想希望國土署針對我剛剛講的這幾點吼那還有包含可能未來從今年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9139.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9163.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
明年後年2025、2026、2027都會有完工的戶數都會有完工的戶數之後那所有遇到的這些問題的統計還有最重要的喔很多縣市政府現在也在興建我那天安排包含內政部董事長跟署長一起來高雄市的這個從事安局其實高雄市的獨發局就跟你們講很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9164.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9190.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
因為他們已經遇到很多這些包租代管還有相關的這些費用的問題很希望可以傳授一些美甲給你們也希望透過接下來如果國土署這邊可以跟所有縣市政府做這些交談交流可以對我們即將大量完成的每年度即將大量完成的這些社會住宅有很正面的意義的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9191.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9201.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那所以在這邊先請吳署長你是不是可以針對所有縣市政府目前已經興建好的社宅那可能有一些已經要 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9202.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9226.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
已經要面臨他第一次的六年要滿了那另外有一些比如說高雄市有幾個社宅他已經搬進去一年兩年所遇到的這些相關的問題做一些交流跟請教來署長跟文報的確啦因為我們在每年的這個每一季的檢討會還有跟各縣市政府跟六都有一個社宅的管理的聯合大平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9226.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9242.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
其實陸陸續續都收到很多意見尤其從去年下半年到今年上半年剛好很多都是輪完第一輪都輪完第一輪其實大家都累積了非常多的經驗當然有不錯的也有很痛苦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9242.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9271.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那這些其實都有回饋給我們做這個在後續要做設宅因為接下來是接下來這幾年中央的完工的設宅會大量的釋出這樣今年大概就有4000戶左右那到明年更會有大概7000戶左右那大概每一年都會維持一定的數量會開始釋出那所以相對的在管理經驗上就更需要因為它遍佈到全國我們必須要更了解有些在地性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9272.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9296.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那這是一個第二個就是說其實很多我們在興建設宅的過程當中也很擔心被標籤化這也是為什麼我們今天在弱勢的部分會特別要注意這個問題因為相對很多年輕人他也會擔憂弱勢比例值提高會不會相對他的他的重簽率就會大幅的降低那所以這一點也是我們在這過程當中會很審慎我們希望透過更多的行政措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9297.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9312.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
來解決這個問題而不是一定要透過修法那透過行政措施能夠達到平衡的狀態下可能會做得更清楚那第三個就是說當然這過程當中在一般民間的這個租賃合約不公平的這個部分其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9314.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9336.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
在我們這幾年的這個包租代管也好或是租金補貼也好都產生很多這一類的問題那這一些呢我們也都有跟地政司合作地政司現在先行的部分先透過這個定情化契約的修正那把一些房客比較受到不公平對待的部分譬如說任意漲租啦或是這一個水電費電費的這個課徵電費的這個收費標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9341.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9367.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
不合理的問題通通在裡面明確的定義那這些我想我們會在這幾個月收集各縣市政府他們所提出來的問題我們會再做一段時間這我同意啦這確實需要一些時間做一些交流跟這些資料的收集最後針對國土署已經在整體開發地區的社宅取得方案已經報行政院了嘛那如果已經報行政院了那我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9369.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9385.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
可以具體的來執行針對區域計畫或者是公辦都更裡面到底多少比例必須要來興建設宅因為非常遺憾的台中市的狀況現在國土署要也要不到那所以說希望未來在這些相關審議的過程裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9386.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9404.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那國土署就提供更具體的這些方案那現在報行政院的部分可以趕快具體的來實施是這個部分我們其實抱怨的部分就會涵蓋都市計劃審議中的還有現在它的在重劃區或區政區已經取得的我們這一個部分是已經取得的可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9405.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9433.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
在行政措施上就是可以但是如果今天立法的話那一塊反而會拿不到這很重要喔如果立法反而會拿不到那我們透過行政措施直接跟地方政府協商我們可以取得現階段縣市政府手中已經握有的四地重劃區案徵收區的土地就可以進行協商來取得我覺得這個對台中現在真的標高的房價一定有一定有很正面的注意啦是 這個我們也葡萄樹也有一些具體的這個行政措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9434.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9446.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
可以在縣市政府他對於涉災不積極的情況下中央政府也可以來做是這個我們會朝這個方向來努力好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝李博弈委員下一位我們請吳啟明委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9461.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9479.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
好 主席 我們一位同仁 請郭突署 吳市長吳市長有請吳市長好 針對今天的機制品質的改善與政策的討論我們都知道 我們過去有很多大樓 現有的大樓充電樁的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9483.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9505.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那其實我們也知道說在2019年我們的修法通過我們後來蓋的大家充電樁都沒問題但是之前的這些大樓還是存在的問題因為存在的問題住戶至於要做但是沒經過管委會同意法院的判決判決住戶的敗訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9506.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9515.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那未來咧,我們抓新舊的大樓我們要怎樣來協助我們的舊油的我們的大樓的管委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9516.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9544.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這邊我們要怎樣內政部要怎樣做規劃親愛的署長來來來重視這問題感謝委員因為在這一個充電樁的安裝的這個部分其實關鍵是你把車子引到地下室可能引發的這個公共安全疑慮的問題尤其是他的這個鋰電池火災是目前證實是無法直接撲滅他只能透過大量灌水降溫那或者是利用這個防火毯 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9545.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9573.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
避免毒煙的擴散所以我們把這些包含充電樁的安裝程序還有第一時間的防火還有降溫的措施都請消防署訂定在它相關的指引當然地方政府有些也已經做了一些指引我想這個指引可以讓公益大廈管委會是比較放心的也有一定的方向可以遵循 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9574.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9603.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那這部分消防署應該在最近就會把它做一個比較完整的訂定那我想這部分部裡面統整如果確認以後應該會提供給各縣市政府還有我們也會到時候會邀公益大廈管委會來一起做一些討論那希望他們遵循這樣的指引然後逐步的把這些安全措施做好那這樣的話才有機會讓他下去的時候所有的住戶是比較安心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9603.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9621.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
好 市長是針對我們地下室停車場但是大樓有開放空間是不是未來朝那個開放空間我們也不要限制在地下室在開放空間我們也可以來設置我們的臨時的充電座其實我們也是希望說先用開放空間讓住戶心理上比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9628.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9647.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
能夠接受這個東西那他逐步再引下去你安全措施做好了那再讓他下去好 再來我就跟你討論社會住宅因為我們社會住宅目前在我們都會區裡面大家注意社會住宅期望值都很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9649.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9664.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
非常的高所以說在我們都會區裡面社會住宅我們在推動的腳步還不過快因為我們有很多是我們的國有財產是我們公家的土地公家的土地我們要取得會比較方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9666.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9690.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
取得方便,我們未來興建的速度才會快那所以說在未來,我們會在我們都會區裡面是不是有整套我們怎樣來取得土地,這最重要嘛你再整個發包程序,那都是趙正堂程序,那也很快因為我們很多我們也不要講弱勢啦,就是沒有房子的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9691.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9719.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
他們都很期待我們的社會住宅那社會住宅你還要制定的就是今天你抽到的時候你就不能隨意的來轉租或是存在的問題就是地下室的停車問題那一定要把它制定比較嚴格要是被查到的話第一就沒收然後你罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9720.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9746.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
絕對一定要把它制定因為你沒有制定比較重的罰款變成他們的車位現在車位都是魚味籃球大家都知道這樣才可以落實說真正需要的人他們來抽到他們可以改觀引起爭議這就是我們政府要的這部份我們在我們訂的部分都已經有明確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9747.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9770.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
原則上中央蓋的大部分不會再有就是說還有空位再去額外驅逐出去了當然有一些看地方的特殊需求那或者是說我們的車但是我想委員所建議的非常好就是他管理一定要非常嚴格不能讓他有所謂的轉租的行為讓不管是涉宅本身或是停車位讓這部分我們會會嚴格來要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9771.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9780.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
因為過去的曾經發生就是我們的合宇住宅板橋的合宇住宅合宇住宅當初就是一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9782.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9803.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
不肖的商人 找了很多人頭去抽 抽到了之後然後他想辦法 哎喲 破產啦什麼然後在金華院認定判決 就用法拍的名義 對就用法拍的名義把他低價飆售出去 對 對所以這都是我們要賀字的方向 好不好 對好 這部分我們會努力好 謝謝市長 謝謝好 謝謝吳清明委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9817.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9821.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
好 現在請我們下一位劉行廷我們召委 謝謝謝謝主席 劉部長 吳署長有請委員好部長辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9835.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9861.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
因為剛剛我是會議主席所以我簡單講一下這個住宅法我們這邊的提案說明這個本次住宅法的修正本席提的兩個法案修正案分數如下第一個是修正第10條第57條之一部分主軸是租賃住宅市場透明化也就是說不管是包租貸款甚至是申請租金補貼因為現在其實大部分人是用申請租金補貼的方式來感受這個政府對於居住正義的努力嘛但是你收取補貼的時候我們花了非常多的人民的納稅錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9863.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9884.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
要促進居住正義不能只有發錢而已不能只停在福利的層面而是要讓這筆開支效益最大化所以在申請租金補貼的時候其實應該是要有房屋租賃房屋的相關資訊包含地址契約起期日每月租金數額租屋型態租屋面積比例等等這些租屋資訊其實在租屋人領取租屋補貼的時候政府就已經取得這些資料了 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9884.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9910.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那公寓出租人也依租宅法第15條一項規定就租金收入享有免納綜合所得稅等等的一些政策優惠所以這些資訊本來就應該要充分的來做揭露透過更大的市場透明去避免租屋黑市才會讓這筆不管是租稅的減免也好或者是租金的補貼也好發揮這個更大的政策作用另外新增第21條之一的部分是講所謂的社宅土地儲備 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9911.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9926.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
剛剛前面委員質詢的時候其實也有提到這署長當然擔心民文入法不見得取得但是如果看一下法條內容大家就會知道就是說這是在強制全部做區段徵收或者是勢力重劃之後取得的所有的配餘地不可以全部以抵費地的方式來出售 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9927.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9947.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
而是要留一定的比例而且作為社會住宅的建築用地使用也許中央沒辦法取得因為主辦的機構不見得是中央政府但是地方政府可以取得嘛那只要中央政府跟地方政府有一個默契要怎麼來做這件事情我想把它明文入法化我覺得是有其必要的這是提案說明那今天藉由質詢的時間要跟部長跟署長討論一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9949.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9975.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
一樣我們都還是談社會住宅啦因為我看眾觀這麼多委員跨黨派的委員提出了非常多住宅法修法的版本其實大部分雖然方向若有不同但是大多還是都關切其實社會住宅入住戶的這個資格提這樣子版本的委員是相對多的那麼也非常多關心其實重簽率的問題包含稍早我們各委員會各委員的詢答其實都有問嘛我們到底供給的數量夠不夠啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9976.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9993.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
等待的時間有多長啊 中遷的比率會有多少的影響啊現行的機制顯然有一定的改進之處啦那我想請問一下署長部長也可以啦 如果部長知道的話如果部長不知道 署長回答我們現在在排隊等待全國各地社會住宅抽籤的總共有多少人等待啦 就是等待中遷的這一群人 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9999.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10013.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
的確只有我們的各縣市的都不一致你中央有的數據我們現在光林口到上一波我印象沒有記錯我曾經看過最誇張的數字是將近700700個人在等對 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10018.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10047.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
然後可能每三四個月只會釋出個位數只會釋出個位數嘛所以就700個人等不到一間或者兩間等等嘛對對對然後這只是其中一個案例你如果全國各地呢那應該更多啦那應該更多對不對應該而且大部分應該現在狀況最多應該是集中在北三都吧北三都嘛當然嘛北漂工作等等區域條件比較良好當然就成為出租的熱點嘛那這樣子你們從這樣子的數據來看你們覺得現在社宅的缺口還有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10048.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10076.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
射載的缺口你要蓋到多少戶才不會有等待的問題所以我才會說我們現在是努力達到一個所謂的低標也就是說25萬戶其實25萬戶就是我們認定的射載存量的最低標那時候可能就會削減掉比較多的這個輪候的這個部分如果按照剛剛署長回答其他委員答詢就講說我們達到2.5%之後我們再來做輪候嘛不是就是說那時候輪候的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10078.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10097.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
就是輪候的效果它的效率會提高啦今天沒有達到那個時候輪候的效率其實是很低的啦但是還是要做吧我覺得對對對因為就是因為缺乏的時候大家對於那種我今天能不能入住社宅純粹只是運氣問題的那種感受才會特別強烈不是嗎可是換另外一個角度就是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10098.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10120.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
重複登記的就是跨跨點登記的會暴增因為當你的數量不太夠的時候所以大家都會搶嘛其實就是搶對不對所以會看到那個數字會更更膨脹會膨脹得比較厲害你現在採取各自登記然後各自抽薪當然就會出現這樣的狀況所以為什麼不管是上一次我們辦公廳會嘛很多學者專家或者是今天很多委員其實都有提到就是說你應該是統一登記嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10121.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10143.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
然後你當然也可以做調整嘛比如說我們上次公定會其實建議叫做不只是輪候還有積分制嘛也就是說你用不同的身份你有不同的分數嘛你如果集中登記不要在那邊亂槍打鳥你分數可能高一點其實我覺得這些都可以透過平台的技術手段來做解決啦但是我對於署長剛剛去回答其他人講說我要等到低標存量的時候我再來推輪候我個人是非常質疑啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10144.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10159.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
因為我覺得越缺的時候越需要人做啊那時候輪候的效果才會出來但是也不表示現在不能推對不對對其實現在我們有重複在考慮就一併做了一併做但是會跟大家講說一開始效果不會很好是因為那個數字會被膨脹的很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10160.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10180.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
沒關係你針對不同的樣態我們可以找各個世界各國也許他的實踐的狀況來做交叉的參酌我們也可以討論制度的設計我想這次我們去排住宅法的修正其實就是希望針對這件事情做一下討論因為我是覺得如果要討論現在他討論說我們要放寬多少的弱勢戶的比例一般戶的比例你增多 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10181.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10208.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
加多加少其實你都動輒得就嘛就我增加了一般戶的比例其實弱勢戶就被壓縮了福利的本質就不見了但你如果把它納入好像又有重複中簽的問題所以它導致了很多的問題所以我其實覺得以目前來看這個建立統一的平台處理需求把身份東西重新整理然後把抽籤改成輪候恐怕是比較眼下比較需要的做法署長你同意這樣說嗎對我們其實是用逐步來建立這樣的一個資料平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10209.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10226.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
現在的狀況的確是這樣上一次我們一開始在討論租屋的題目的時候是談租屋市場透明所以你也講你要逐步我這個人一向非常開放就是說我會給你時間去做這個事情那我現在問你如果說我們現在討論統一登記平台輪候制的這樣子一個設計請問你的時間表是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10229.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10255.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們現在就是說剛剛有提到就是說因為剛好六都也都執行完一輪了那所以我們現在的狀況是說我們先把這個所謂的資料欄現在過去的成租資料欄格我們現在做一個統整也就是說像剛剛委員所提到我們希望你包含你現在租金補貼領售戶的那你現在所需要的這些欄位我們先把它做一個統整讓大家可以去填 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10256.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10275.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那同時這些資料也會跟未來社宅的需求都會接接在一起因為這樣才會把需求端看得更清楚也就是我今天不是只有登記我還需要知道你的狀況還有你的這一個所需要的方式所以它有一個資料庫然後有一個平台對不對那具體來講這個資料庫或這個平台什麼時候才能夠呈現在大家的面前 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10276.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10292.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我們現在是今年會把整個架構都把它呈現出來先把架構呈現出來然後會現在是目前跟跟這個住都跟跟我們的知福斯都已經在討論那我們這個架構出來以後我們要用什麼樣的方式住都來建呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10293.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10318.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
還是來請制服師來幫忙建那這個部分我們都有在討論當中我們希望這個欄位確認跟各縣市討論如果都確認那我們就先來把這個東西那你把推動這樣子的一個計畫的詳細時間表嘛你比如說我幾月之前要開完多少會嘛什麼時候我要申出架構什麼時候我要再跟比如說大家學者專家商量等等你中間有一個計畫圖嘛對不對你這個會後來提供好不好好好因為這個不管是住宅法要不要因為我們要把這個機制直接修到法律裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10319.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10340.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
跟你的行政措施你會要求要彈性嘛因為我看你整本報告都不希望修法我們是希望一邊做一邊讓他保持有彈性我們要有充分的資料作為討論的依據啦今天大家答詢前面開公聽會其實不外乎就是讓資料非常非常的紮實嘛好不好這個也請部長要叮嚀一下好不好把相關你們現在如果不希望修法那你們的政策作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10341.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10362.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
好 相關的資料要做一下提升好 第二個我們談輪候制之外其實背後都核心原因啦就是社宅供不應求嘛才不會有這麼多的問題那為什麼會供不應求除了建設的速度當然說原物料上漲啦什麼取得土地不見得容易等等的一些因素之外其實我覺得租屋市場本來就要做一個通盤的考量嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10362.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10392.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
過去我們針對房東有很多的大赦條款這一次的住宅法的修正也有很多講說我們把免稅額度再放寬其實目的是什麼部長你知道目的是什麼嗎我希望更多的房東來加入更多的房東來加入對不對其實就是希望一般市場也可以釋出更多的租屋標的嘛對不對這個叫做增加供給的概念嘛對不對可是現在看起來好像狀況不是特別好你們覺得有充分釋出嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10394.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10419.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
應該這麼說啦因為透過包租代管系統的話其實這樣的成長數字其實是一直在快速擴增當中我不是講包租代管我講的是一般市場我今天要討論的是一般市場的問題就是說一般市場為什麼沒有辦法大量的釋出因為我們之前討論租屋市場透明化對不對然後有些人擔心說會定毛為什麼核心的原因總是繞不出去其實不外乎就是持有的成本太低了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10420.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10449.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
也就是說我現在不來配合你包租代管或者是我要直接出租等等我要付出的代價我不如乾脆放著如果那個租金不夠高我乾脆給他放著我們現在全部閒置的本來可以出租但不能出租的各式各樣的空屋啊空的房子啊數字你國土署有沒有統計過閒置的對大家以前講空屋稅、囤房稅這種空在那邊沒有在用的明明可以出租給大家的沒有在出租的數字是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10452.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10454.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這個10%的房屋如果充分的釋出到租屋市場會不會降低租金水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10467.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10491.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
會 會嘛所以我不希望說我們現在討論住宅法法律的內容我們只能規範社會住宅規範包租貸款等等但是真正要讓不管是租屋的租金降低未來房市的負擔不要太大關鍵還是正常市場那請問內政部部長或者是國土組組長針對大幅增加讓空屋釋出進入租屋市場你們有什麼配套措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10494.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10515.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
其實我們在之前一些一些包租貸款的策略上其實最早都有希望討論這一些但是後來也經過一些案例大概實證大概是這樣因為很多的這個空屋他尤其所謂的低度用電戶他其實都在等待著可能類似因為在等待房地合一歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10516.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10535.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
他也等待防疫了第二個他如果有多汙足他其實擔心的不是只有我們剛剛講的我有公益出租人我這一個免稅有多少沒有啊是他擔心的綜合所得稅的問題綜合所得稅嘛綜合所得稅啊這些也是我們在歷史跟財政部有在討論啦但是財政部他在考慮整個租稅的合理條件的狀況他其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10535.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10553.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
也沒有辦法同意說這個時候又再大的辦公之所以有這麼多人持有空第一個是持有成本太低對不對持有成本太低不需要付代價第二個是未來稅賦的壓力很大不管是綜合所得稅以及你一旦出租房子你就沒有一聲一聲房地合一稅等等的稅率優惠通通不見了所以對房東來講我寧願控制 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10554.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10571.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我覺得這件事情雖然他跟財政部要做一個跨部的協調但是我覺得這個事情才是真正的關鍵嘛我們的房地產市場租屋市場能不能正常化其實我覺得在這個地方在稅率的部分要做徹底的檢討所以我覺得住宅法是一軌但是財稅的部分是一軌這個我們希望內政部部長這邊我要這個就要拜託你了 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10573.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10597.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
這個雖然專業的部分署長回答的都很好但是跨部溝通啊就是要求在持有成本的增加逼著這些房東把空的房子試出來逼著這些投資客拿出來出租啊這個我覺得才是釜底抽薪的方法啦因為我們剛剛也講嘛我們要增加社宅的供給你盡量去蓋你取得土地我們都給你相關的政策工具你要降低大家對社宅的需求就是你一般市場的房源要試出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10598.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10603.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
所以這部分我希望有明確的這個進度可以嗎今天複稅署也有代表過來要不要請他來可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10607.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10632.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
跟委員報告我們的房屋稅關於持有稅的部分已經有改革從今年開始我們就會加重那個多屋族的這個囤房稅他的稅率會加重但是他如果房東把他的房子試出來出租的話他的房屋稅就可以降低就比照自用住宅嘛對不對是是是這個已經有改革然後今年5月是第一次首次首年上路啦那我們會持續觀望這個實施的成效怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10633.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10643.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
你覺得剛剛我們這個內政部這邊講這個現在空的房子是10%左右在這樣的制度上路之後有沒有KPI會下降到幾%你們有沒有討論過這個事 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10645.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10671.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我們會持續報稅因為今年五月才第一次首年上路沒關係這個題目我們先打開放著但我希望負稅者做一下思考就如果房東的減稅誘因不夠你要有大赤條款都可以討論但是關鍵是要讓他釋出來嘛我們唯一的指標就是不希望房子閒在那邊然後租屋的租金水平因為供不應求所以很高嘛所以我覺得除了這個社會住宅的討論之外這一部分的討論我們也要開始進入深水區了請各政府單位做好準備可以嗎好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10674.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10678.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
謝謝主席我們請內政部劉世芳部長跟國土署新秀署長劉部長吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10695.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10719.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
部長好署長好部長針對各部會的解凍案現在卓院長已經正式開綠燈請各部會儘速將1584項的解凍報告儘速送到立法院那請問部長內政部何時可以將解凍報告送到立法院報告委員現在行政院要求我們在星期四要送到立法院是那我們在前兩星期 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10723.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10743.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
對就今天送到立法院是好那請問一下部長您應該有看到一個這個公文就是文化部的公務員出來爆料說他們早就寫好了麻煩那個他早就寫好了這個簡訊報告了所以請他們務必要確認有被 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10743.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10755.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
要再浏览一次要改一下确认不会被解读成早早就写好现在才送的字眼并适时更新数据请问内政部跟所属的机关有没有这样的一个状况 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10756.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10771.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
報告委員我們應該不是這樣的處理啦就是說第一個包括我們內政委員會的委員或者是大院的委員所提到的有關凍結案的部分呢我們邀請其他的署或者是其他的內政部的人呢就是在討論一下如何寫這個解凍案的這個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10775.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10792.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那在過去一段時間以來我們都是一直在滾動式的調整那因為那個院長啊這個下令叫我們在今天要送上來的時候呢我們在前兩天啊做最後的一個報告那因為我們的報告的那個蠻多的所以我們都是有逐頁看過大概是什麼時候開始準備這個解凍報告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10796.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10819.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
大概什麼時候開始準備解凍報告因為我們的那個凍結的那個提案相當的多所以每個單位什麼時候再準備我們不知道但是原則上應該是以那個總統對外公布的那個通過的那個版本為主所以我們是以那個版本開始之後呢再做那個各個不同層次上面的一個解凍的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10820.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10837.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那還有包括說如何解凍因為有些是凍結的比例是30% 70%各不相同那還有委員的要求也各不相同部長我其實辦公室有收到資訊內政部所屬的單位其實在2月底就已經寫好解凍報告了那這樣為了行政院 現在國土署就沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10838.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10853.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
國土署就沒辦法應該是要等到總統三組通過之後我這邊其實有一個有一個籤文啦就是資整理決議解凍報告共27案提出書面報告後使得凍之案是19案提出專案報告並經同意後 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10855.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10864.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
使得動之共濟罷岸我們沒有那麼少 報告委員我們沒有那麼少這是其中一個單位所以這個是在二月的時候二月底的時候就有一個這樣解凍報告了但是那時候的預算數要經過總統府的刪除對外公佈才算這個清晨的時間 因為這是你們內部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10877.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10893.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
所以不是每個部會都一樣我現在講的現在正播對不起不是每一個署或者司都一樣所以表示有的二月就已經寫好了嗎可能還壓在部裡嗎沒有跟委員報告因為有關於預算解凍的部分大致上就是會計單位跟我們的業務單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10894.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10909.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
所以我請我們的主任秘書他在綜合整理還有重規是所以我剛有問你嗎什麼時候開始寫解凍報告有沒有跟文化不一樣嗎早早就寫好了那現在才在做這樣的那確實我是有拿到你們內部的一個二月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10909.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10934.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
就已經送上來的一個解凍報告的一個簽程其實你可以查一下所屬單位送上簽程的時間就可以證明有沒有人在說謊那當然還有一種狀況是有些單位寫了兩種解凍案的說帖但是被部長要求只能統一口徑只能說都是因為立法院算不出凍結數字因此無法送解凍案請問有沒有在這回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10935.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10956.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
報告委員我先跟委員講一個數字我們到目前為止就是說總統公佈3月21號公佈的時候我們凍結58案總共85億那所以這些正確的數字就是要會計室跟我們的行政院的主計總署做確認之後我們才能夠有一致性的一個數目字跟那個大院來送到這邊來參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10958.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10968.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那那個所以呢在討論的過程當中呢事實上我也在跟委員會在垂詢的時候呢我也按照委員會的講法就是說如果沒有做最後的三讀通過的話呢那個預算的數字我沒有辦法覺得表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10973.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11000.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
有人會動過的凍結案也不需要院會同意的這些應該都可以儘早送來我想立法院凍結預算我們是為了監督政府問責行政絕對不是像我們目前在外面聽到一堆都說是因為藍白砍預算所以不能做哪個補助不能其實因為行政院一直沒有送出這樣的一個解凍案而不是立法院不肯解凍所以內政部目前部長您剛講到的這些凍結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11001.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11021.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
還有哪一個是沒有辦法達成條件的可不可以列舉一下報告委員現在我們的這個凍結的解凍案如果送到立法院來的時候是立法院的院會要能夠附委然後再交辦到每一個委員會所以對於內政部來說都沒有問題都可以送解凍案明明聽我講一下這裡面大概書面報告有24案但是專案報告一共有34案 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11030.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11046.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那所以這個專案報告的話還需要在委員會裡面排除那按照立法院你可不可以經過程序委員會再復文才能交辦下來可以先送到立法院嗎我們才能去做相關的一個後續的一個程序上的一個部分的進行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11048.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11062.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
還有另外部長我想請教你很多單位的預算解凍並沒有特別限制雖然剛剛講的三月份總統公告之後其實就可以送出了那所以到現在都你們都還不肯交立法院審議那是為了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11064.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11080.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我剛提到了第一個今天送出來然後那個所有的書面的部分我們就一致送出對我剛提到的是其實這些三月份都可以送出的嘛因為書面報告本來就可以送出啦因為它又沒有我們又沒有這個而且是委員會要求的書面報告啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11081.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11100.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
謝謝委員指教我們會來改進另外請教一下部長就是根據監察院的報告指出板橋的福州合一住宅大量出現假債權真買賣的狀況目前當然也很多的就是爆發人頭債權人進行法拍交易規避那個閉鎖期 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11102.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11115.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那謀取暴力那當然內政部也承認這個難以防止炒作那請問部長跟署長內政部作為主管機關政府十年前推出的這個合一住宅目前的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11118.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11146.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
你們目前我知道已經法院有在偵辦一些了包括說有百人被我們主動移送的你們主動提出我們主動移送有35案那現在有百人被起訴嘛那最新的進度是已經開庭七案三案不認罪其中一案涉及兩名被告共同犯詐欺得利罪然後分別處以三年有期徒刑三年三個月有期徒刑兩年五個月的有期徒刑然後另外有三人的名下合一住宅被沒收 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11147.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11169.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
那我想請教一下部長跟署長因為其實這10年前我們可以看一下價格10年前的價格是一坪18萬現在一坪的價格是52.1萬所以當時是希望能夠讓民眾買得起房子那現在呢我們看到10年後是52.1萬那尤其是很多的投資客利用這個假債權真買賣的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11172.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11199.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
來去規避我們的這個閉鎖期所以變成我們現在看到的不曉得合一住宅到底是合一住宅還是樂透住宅喔那尤其是您可以看一下喔我們最近還發現喔就是說到109年我想這個可能剛剛署長有講嘛是不是國土署發現然後以這個直接移送的喔就是有55件法拍案的轉移案其中有高達71%是在權人跟拍定為同一人沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11199.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11219.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
然後而且還有是同一個地震室來處理數十件的一個案件那請問一下國土署未來要如何避免缺失再次發生跟委員報告這就是為什麼要推社會住宅而不要再做合一住宅的最主要原因因為像這一類的案件你只要透過是 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11220.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11238.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
是政府出售的就一定會面對這個問題那所以包含了現在還有一些縣市還在推我們現在其實都不希望他們再推那第二個在這過程當中我們為什麼要主動移送因為我們主動移送以後我們只要掌握確切的你跟違背當時的政策目的我們是主動把它買回 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11239.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11263.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
依原價格的八五折買回那買回以後全部當社會住宅用這樣的方式來遏制這個問題剛剛我提到有三個人目前名下的合一住宅被沒收那針對這個部分國土署有沒有跟這些違法者有 我們透過律師再跟他們談因為我就是希望他們同意直接用八五折賣否則我們就會持續那目前執行的進度怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11264.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11281.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我們目前已經收回兩戶了還有一戶就對了因為未來案件還很多嘛所以都透過法律訴訟持續的來進行那對於這個你們買回來的這個八五折的這個合宜住宅未來您剛講是不是要做社會住宅也就是只租不售了 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11283.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11301.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
要不然的話這樣子就其實都會有很多的這種風險那另外就是說我們現在看到已經改推社會住宅了嘛那請問一下就是說針對這個部分未來針對社會住宅的不管是轉租轉借或者也有可能被濫用補貼的一個狀況有沒有設下什麼防範機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11302.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11330.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我們如果是直接興建的部分我們是透過管理上我們每年都會做查核都會做查核確認是不是什麼樣的查核因為我們都會做住戶的拜訪在林口的部分都會做住戶的拜訪實際了解他的狀況是不是真的租這裡那在租金補貼跟包租代管的部分我們都會透過資料的勾結比對像我們租金補貼到目前已經有200多戶有200多案是假補貼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11331.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11352.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
真零錢但是假補貼那這個部分我們都有透過資料的交叉比對或是電話的查詢主動去找出這些問題就是希望他們不要有腐爛申請或是說用轉租的方式那請問對於弱勢資格的審查是不是也有定期的查核一樣都有大概多久的時間我們都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11352.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11380.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
就是因為我們有一個專案辦公室是都會透過第一個資料的比對第二個呢會去用電話查詢他是不是真的住在那裡那這樣的方式的話是比較能夠防止啦是OK好那可能請部長跟署長針對這個部分希望我們能夠把這個社會住宅留給真正需要的人謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝徐益臻委員跟委員會報告一下因為我們今天有提案說明比較晚開始到現在為止都還沒有休息我們休息三分鐘好 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11665.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11677.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
好 請各位官員委員就座報告委員會 我們繼續開會並順便休息 我們中午不休息我們會把會議開到選擇結束為止來 這個下一位我們請鄭天才委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11703.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11716.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
誒 不對不對 不對 不對抱歉 抱歉沒關係 等一下對 看錯份子了不是 禮拜一 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11759.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11771.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
好 主席 各位委員 有請部長還有股仲副主委有名會股仲副主委有請部長好 辛苦了這個都會期的 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11772.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11795.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
原住民人口已經佔全體原住民人口的51.46%所以相關社會住宅的相關的這些規定基本上主要就是希望能夠在原住民而言就是希望能夠協助都會區的原住民而我們原住民人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11797.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11818.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
剛剛講了51.46%在渡會期而住宅自由利 住宅自由利沿岸之間的差距13%以上如果扣除沿鄉的住宅自由利如果光看這個渡會期的住宅自由利 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11819.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11848.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
严汉之间的差距更会高达百分之二三十以上这个是基本的一个数字所以我们看在还没有原住民族基本法也还没有住宅法之前无论是过去的省政府或是中央政府我们看81年一亿多的钱一亿五千多万新建了原住民的基隆市的 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11849.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11878.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
國宅那時候是國宅好84年新店的中正國宅這個中正國宅但是是用公務預算去買了這個國宅買了國宅然後變成一般的住宅一般的集合式住宅那時候是為了安置新店的黃河快速道路的我們的鄉親 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11881.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11907.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
然後汐止汐止花東新村這個是用公務預算去買民間興建的集合住宅直接用公務預算買民間的興建的集合式住宅這最快花了這個兩億多的一個經費剛剛那個是不止兩億然後這個91年在 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11910.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11936.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這個是直接興建在這個興建在三峽所以在這樣的一個情形之下還沒有原住民族基本法還沒有這個住宅法的時候那原住民族基本法特別規定政府應測定原住民族的住宅政策第28條原基法也規定對都會區的安基 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11937.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11964.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
要提供這樣的一個保障跟協助所以住宅法我在105年提出修正這個第二條增加第四項目的事業主管機關英式原住民族教育及語言文化等傳承發展需要應該要興建這個專攻原住民成都之社會住宅之所以會提到教育文化語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11966.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11995.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
這個很重要在都會期所以我第一個提出來的其實不是這條第一個提出來的是租屋補助我了解到都會期的問題所以我提出了租屋補助是從嚴明會開始的實施三年之後內政部認為這個政策不錯應該要推到全國性才開始有全國性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11995.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12019.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
租屋補助這個就是我當延民會副主委的時候所提出的租屋補助所以這個跟我們的教育文化語言有非常密切的關係所以租债法在105年12月23號做了這樣的一個修正好我們看這個為了這個經費我也諮詢過當時的106年的內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12025.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12054.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
同意用住宅基金來去支援這個專攻原住民的社會住宅今天人民會的報告裡面提了這些細節啊還有是這個中正國宅或是榮恩圃啊包括高雄市的都不是住宅法所稱的社會住宅所以你們雖然寫了這樣的一個人口個個複數另外啊很重要的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12055.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12082.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
因為住宅法修正之後105年修正之後都沒有一個都沒有所以我質詢當時的行政院院長那時候內政部部長說在台中樹林大溪有541戶在進行中但是經過幾年之後第二年之後幾個月之後都答覆說 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12083.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12113.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
都沒有都沒有成了一個都沒有一個都沒有所以這個部分啊這個住宅法修正已經8年4個月結果專攻原住民興建的社會住宅一個都沒有主要就是經費第二個我剛舉的這些例子前面的延期法之前的這些例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12113.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12139.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
都是中央主導的都是不是台灣省政府主導就是中央來主導因為我們的都會期的鄉親他會跨縣市工作會跨縣市工作會跨縣市所以有了社會住宅有了莊公園住民的社會住宅之後他會跨縣市所以必須要由中央所以我才會提出這個修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12141.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12170.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
提出修法是我對都會區的原住民的了解提出所以應該要由中央主管機關以原住民族委員會來共同去推動因為第一個就是說畢竟住宅法的主管機關是內政部第二住宅基金也在內政部真正需要去了解原住民族的都會區 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12171.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12196.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
就是演民會所以原來的條文啊 目的事業主管機關原來的條文 現行條文啊演民會都把它推給地方政府事實上按照住宅法的規定啊縣市直轄市縣市政府是地方主管機關啊它是住宅法的地方的主管機關啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12198.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12223.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
所以真正目的事業主管機關其實是中央人民會就原住民族這條條文的話目的事業主管機關其實就是指中央人民會只不過當初少了中央這兩個字所以這個部分是應該把它明確化所以我提出這樣的一個修正條文 請問一下部長可以支持嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12226.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12241.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我是不是請股仲副主委跟您回應一下剛剛的幾個重要的問題好謝謝委員那我想按照住宅法的規定主管機關在中央是內政部在地方就是指甲縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12242.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12264.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那委員這個提案就是說 另外我要提就是說墓地事業主管機關其實不是在住宅法裡面他沒有規定是不是延民會他是各個墓地事業都可以 我舉例像桃園市在規劃的專屬原住民社會住宅現在都因為流標十幾次所以一直沒有辦法成他的新辦主管機關是 墓地事業主管是農田水利署 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12265.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12291.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那他是要專攻原住民那個已經取消了農田水利署那個他們已經取消了但是我的意思是說目的事業主管機關應該不要只集中在原民這部分這樣我們才有更多的資源去做農田水利署他只不過是提供土地所以他真正的目的事業主管還是應該是要中央演民會因為直轄市政府他是一個地方的主管機關所以這個因為時間的關係這個我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12296.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12320.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
條文審查的時候可以再去處理另外就是一個建議這個建議內政部內政部新辦社會住宅出租辦法訂了這個年限那因為現在這個新建社會住宅的那個量沒有辦法達成然後三年或是幾年就要去換就要改增加了 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12322.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12347.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
增加了人民租社會住宅的人民的搬遷的這些費用這些都是一個需要考量的部分當然希望能夠蓋得越快越好但是事實上我是沒有辦法達成所以這個一併的來給這個看能不能再加長這個租社會住宅成住的一個期限以上謝謝好謝謝鄭天才委員下一位我們請翁曉琳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12355.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12383.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
是謝謝有請部長部長有請不好意思部長稍等一下現在我的ppt出現了在這邊我想先請教部長因為我們知道其實最近陸委會他一直在鼓勵國人要進行去大陸的登陸系統那麼可是我們看到就是去大陸的登陸系統其實光是 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12384.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12409.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
陸委會所推動的這個比例你可以看到其實登錄的人次非常的少如果說從啟動這個系統到現在為止那麼大致上我們算出的比例大概就是1.46%也就是出去100個人其實登記的大概頂多是兩個人那麼現在陸委會又請內政部這裡要配合要做有關於宗教 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12410.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12438.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
團體等等這些團體赴大陸的這個登錄那麼請問就是內政部在你對於這個登錄系統的看法如何報告委員當然這個議題不是處理住宅法那我跟委員報告一下就是不管是宗教團體或是其他的團體我們在多次的記者會裡面都有提到這是鼓勵制那跟那個陸委會所公布的附錄的這個登錄人數他是根據那個兩岸人民關係條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12439.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12457.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
必定要一定登記的是不太一樣所以我們用鼓勵的方式那同時我們也請我們常務次長跟宗教團體還有這些人民團體做充分的溝通那目前為止願意一起來做登錄的蠻多請問下次到目前為止已經有多少的團體有登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12459.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12470.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我們這個是滾動式的我還沒有去看那現在呢我們所了解就是說它裡面呢不會出現自然人只會出現團體的名稱還有看到就說好像不僅是宗教團體包含社會團體啊這個怎麼其他職業團體人民團體等等其實依照你們現在建議都要登錄嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12478.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12497.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
不是都要我已經講過鼓勵制度他可登錄可不登錄那麼因為本席其實在之前總諮詢的時候我已經也詢問過其實陸委會對於這個登錄他目前為止就算是果然在大陸那裡發生什麼緊急的狀況有意外事故其實目前陸委會還有我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12498.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12519.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
台湾这边看起来也没有什么救助的能力那么所以呢就这个部分来讲的话我只是想要提醒内政部就是说如果说你们现在也要启动这样的一个系统鼓励这个前往大陆的团体要登陆的话那真正如果发生什么事情的话其实内政部这边也应该要有所准备怎么样能够强化疾难救助的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12519.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12530.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
好那接下來呢我想要再針對就是也是前兩天因為有台中議員有揭露這個國防部又發給有六間宮廟增掉空間存放軍火那雖然說我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12535.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12558.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
这国防部部长有出来澄清说这不是存放军火是征求部队休息的地方但是呢我也必须在这边要再重申的就是在去年7月份其实当时就已经爆发出有苗栗有多间公庙有收到军方的公文要求要签订弹药预囤点的支援协定书 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12558.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12580.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
那么在那个时候其实本席已经有质询过国防部那么认为说这个事情很严重我不知道内政部作为公庙的宗教团体的主管机关你们晓不晓得一旦宗教团体被要求要存放相关的军药弹火那么对于公庙团体的影响是什么嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12582.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12601.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
報告委員我想國防部已經對外多次澄清那我所了解他們所依據的是權動法那目前為止呢我們並沒有收到特別的這個宗教團體跟這個我們的宗教師提出這樣子的疑慮所以我想很多宗教團體大概就是配合權動法 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12601.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12628.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
好來我們看一下權動法的規定權動法裡面的規定其實非常的清楚只要是人民日常基本生活所必須的就是包含常常去廟裡面去拜拜還有就是涉及到有關於這個相關的這個場所設備基本上是不可以徵購跟徵用的也就是說現在宗教團體這些廟宇寺廟應該是要排除在全民防衛動員法第29條之外那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12631.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12650.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
現在內政部民政司作為公廟團體主管機關應該要了解相關的法規應該要善盡保護公廟的責任可是我看起來就是部長對相關的這個法律的規定並不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12650.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12679.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
不曉得說其實宮廟不可以拿來作為存放彈藥的或者是作為這個什麼軍隊休息的地方報告委員我剛已經說過國防部已經多次澄清那有關全民防衛動員準備法的這個法條的內容當然是由國防部來說明或解釋因為他們才是主管機關但是我看到委員所提的這個29條的第5項有一個叫其他經行政院指定公告者 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12680.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12697.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
所以事實上呢這個宗教的這個場合是不是適合作為國軍休息的地方我想是有討論的空間那這一點我會請國防部再跟委員說明清楚因為據本席了解應該是還沒有在指定公告的範圍裡面那我本席要強調的是我們看一下就是其他的這個相關的國際條約裡面所要求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12701.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12721.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
这个战争法很重要的原则就是居民区分原则啊如果说一旦一个民用物体那么它变成是一个被敌方认为它是一个军事作战的地方它会成为军事目标那么未来就会被攻击这是很严重的事情那么内政部民政司应该要把相关的条文规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12723.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12750.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
报告委员我们现在并没有战争你要引用的是国际战争法我没有办法目前就跟你做回答但是战争随时随地都有可能会发生那是你说的以你们现在民进党政府的做法到目前为止在台湾人民的生活都是安和乐丽谢谢委员指教如果说这样的话那你们为什么要去动用要去做这些防卫的演习 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12751.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12776.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
事实上我觉得民进党政府就是很不负责任你们今天没有把事实的真相清楚的告诉公庙去欺骗那些公庙他们都是善心团体善心人士以为说今天能够帮助到军人军民但是事实上他们未来会成为非常危险军事攻击的目标我认为内政部你们作为这些宗教团体的主管机关 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12781.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12807.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
去糊弄他們去欺騙他們讓他們成為無辜的受害者我們從來沒有糊弄宗教團體宗教團體的人都非常善心而且願意配合國家的政策請內政部要提供就是到底現在有多少公廟已經收到來自軍方的這個公文要求要簽訂這些協定書請你們可以提供給我們香港的資料我們真的沒有這個資料我們手頭上沒有這個資料恐怕要請教國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12809.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12831.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
所以由此可見就是內政部你們根本就不配做宗教團體的主管機關你們主管只會加強管制指揮你們根本沒有去好好的保護這些宗教團體我們都是按照全民防衛動員法還有民防法謝謝委員的指教好 謝謝翁曉穎委員下一位我們請李昆城委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12841.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12846.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
謝謝主席我們請這一個政部長還有這個國土署我們吳署長請問住宅法的問題一定問住宅法 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12853.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12874.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
因為我們今天在講住宅法的修法我先請教一下我剛剛有聽到國民黨的委員在提到說福州合一宅在我們新北市板橋那裡然後福州合一宅他說現在是什麼樂透宅買到就賺到然後好像一副是民進黨政府做的我請教一下吳署長這個福州合一宅是誰哪個總統哪一個內政部長哪一個署長做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12878.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12894.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
是在馬總統的任內馬總統任內我記得在2010年那時候他們提出了所謂的這個什麼合一住宅的政策所以我們在我們為什麼會有社會住宅就是不可以再賣了就是爆發弊案嘛我還記得那時候的雲建署的署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12895.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12924.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
葉士文爆發弊案收賄等等之類的後來才改成說我們這個社會住宅就是只租不賣是然後當時候的這個馬英九政府他們是這個合一宅是可以買賣的所以我是過了避鎖期但是那時候就是避鎖期我記得就是用債權的方式來躲避這個避鎖期的這個問題那是避鎖期之前有這一個假債權真買賣的這個方式那福州合一宅避鎖期 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12925.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12946.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
今年好像上半年就結束了就是它有分五年十年的那到今年是十年已經結束了已經結束了是那所以是民進黨政府在收這個爛攤子沒錯所以我聽到說國民黨委員講說這個福州合約宅的這麼多問題而且是我們主動去抓出這一些問題然後主動移送給檢方 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12948.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12968.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那所以這個不知情的人還以為說這福祉合一宅是民進黨執政的時候做的因為我們很快觀察出一定會有這個問題出來因為那時候爆發很多用這個債權去法拍的我們就意識到這個問題已經出現了所以我們主動從這個法拍的資料裡面去找出可能出現的問題主動移送給檢方來偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12971.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12986.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那到目前為止有35件在法院已經在審理當中那所以是國民黨政府留下爛攤子我們現在民進黨政府在收拾這個爛攤子那我再問一下因為住宅法 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12986.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13012.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我也有提案來修法我是提案這個第四條修改這個第二項就是說我把這一個育有未成年身心障礙者一人以上把他納進去因為我們現在的這個住宅法第四條它裡面有一項是身心障礙但是如果是家中有身心障礙的未成年人他不能去申請因為未成年但是他的父母 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13012.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13028.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
他的父母也不能去幫他申請因為他也不符合資格那所以說我才會建議說在這個修改住宅法增加對於身心障礙者家庭的這個保護那我也有看到這個衛福部他們有提供意見就這個第四條第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13030.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13053.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
預有未成年身心障礙者一人以上他們的看法是說這個基於減輕預有未成年身心障礙者的家庭經濟負擔保障身心障礙者的權益本部尊重主管機關那應該是內政部所以我才說我們可以先透過行政協商的部分那如果衛福部也支持衛福部看起來是支持的我們再透過行政措施直接在後續就可以直接把它納入不一定要透過修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13054.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13076.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
不一定透過修法 雙方協商有身心障礙者所以如果要修法我們也支持 但是我們會先跟衛福部部長形成協商的部分先來做處理那就是說這個未來就是如果家中有這一個未成年身心障礙者他們也是符合這個規定就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13079.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13103.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
剛剛這個我看聽說很多委員提到就是說社會住宅因為我們現在按照你們出租辦法規定租賃其實是三年然後這個申請續租最長不得超過六年但是符合經濟或社會弱勢者可以延長到12年那現在遇到一些問題就是說比如說家中有這個未成年子女他可能去住的時候未成年但是經過三年六年之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13103.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13125.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
還要念書了學籍在那邊我們社宅可以設籍嘛對不對學籍在那邊那遇到這個小孩子念書怎麼辦因為他已經在那邊生活圈都要在那邊了那有可能在那邊念了幾年小學幾年級之後那發現說六年已經到了那是不是可以再延長那還有就是說我們還有這個65歲以上的長者65歲住進去好了然後六年之後變成70幾歲了 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13129.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13146.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
其實幾歲你要再叫他再去找這個房子其實也是有點困難我們講社會住宅這部分的話是不是就是我們所提到的比如說有未成年子女學籍的問題還有老人家居住的一些問題這邊是不是可以做彈性做處理報告就是說其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13147.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13173.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
大概最大的困難是因為現在社宅的這個總量是不夠的對我知道我今天如果再去延長的話他這個社宅的循環使用使用率就會降低了我知道困難點在這邊啦那有沒有其他的權宜措施所以才會說像有一些是當然會透過其他包租代管跟租金補貼的方式讓他還可以繼續就他可能就不一定在這裡但是在周遭嘛那第二個就是說我們現在剛好也是六年一起的這剛好 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13174.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13203.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
各地的社宅第一波的社宅都已經輪完一輪了那其實有很多使用上的問題或者是剛剛所提到的有學籍的問題或者是他必須要轉換住房的問題我們現在都在收整這些意見那統一來做一個檢討看看我們後面再對於社宅的這個出租的辦法要不要再重新做一些修正我想這都值得檢討但是要直接去拉長租期恐怕會在使用上使用的效率上我也知道因為現在社宅數量還不夠那如果說久住的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13204.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13232.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
也會變成說有這個需要的人他可能就住不進去所以我才講說因為現在內政部有這個300億的中央擴大租金補貼的專案那這個專案裡面呢特別有針對說比如說這個你們有鼓勵婚育還有加強關懷弱勢對於符合租金的金額你們是2000到8000還可以再加碼比如說他這個育有未成年子女一個人的話再加碼1.4倍然後諸如此類以此類推然後經濟弱勢1.4倍社會弱勢1.2倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13234.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13262.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
就是會增加啦那我想說如果是這樣子的話能不能在租金補貼這方面這倍數可以再多一點讓他們就是說有機會啦就是說如果已經在這邊住很久尤其老人家你70幾歲你要他搬走那他可能真的你要叫他去租房子可能也有一些困難的話是不是在這一個擴大租金補貼的這個倍數上面能夠再佐以調整增加讓他們如果萬一不得已必須搬離的話比較容易在附近找到房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13262.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13288.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
了解 這我們會在整體來做一些討論來調配啦因為這個部分當然也會考慮到這個我們的這個裁員的問題啦就是撥補的問題那第二個就是說要以哪些族群我想這都還有要再討論的空間但是這個方向我認為你們應該要去做處理好不好好那我最後一個問題我請教這個那部長跟署長請問應該是這個租屋是跟地震室有關係的對好來好謝謝這個齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13292.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13293.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這個.. |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13293.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13321.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
這個最近有一個新聞蠻紅的就是在高雄有一個通口飯店租屋糾紛然後後來因為他是房東他就說他不知道說這一個他們租給他的比這個附近的這個租屋的這個平均的租金還要便宜這是他的說法啦但是我們也只要說就是說在租房子的時候租金到底怎麼去什麼是一個合理的價格那你們這邊有一個合理價格的一個評判的一個標準嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13323.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13352.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
公委員報告一下大概會有幾個管道第一個部分就是有關於住宅類的部分因為我們現在有租金補貼所以我們現在每半年都有公佈租金的行情讓民眾來做一個知道那這個案子應該是商用的部分那一般店鋪或商用的部分如果透過仲介來做一個媒合的話那這個都要經過實價登錄然後去做一個查詢跟一個可以提供公開查詢所以如果在商用的部分也可以透過實價登錄的一個資料來做一個查詢好 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13354.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13373.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
那如果說房客跟房東之間出現了租金的問題你們現在都是用消保法來做處理就對了這個部分的話因為消保法適用的是住宅類的租賃行為那如果一般商用的或店鋪用的話他可以循鄉鎮市調節委員會的一個途徑來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13376.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13399.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
因為在我們這個租賃住宅市場發展及管理條例裡面我看到說這個第六條第六條你們有講到說租賃住宅的租金由出租人跟成租人約定不適用土地法第97條的規定這是第六條的規定但是第一條呢它其實開宗明就講得很清楚了這個維護人民居住權健全租賃住宅市場等等之類的那我在想 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13400.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13423.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
就是說如果有關於這一個租金這方面的話應該不是說放任如果按照第六條來看好像是放任就是說你就是房東跟房客在自由市場裡面你們去討論這個租金但是呢這個我們如果要保障這一個這個租客的話那其實在很多的這個先進國家他們都有對這個租金做一些立法上面的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13424.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13450.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
介入不是完全任由這個市場機制來做決定的啦那我想說有關於這一個第六條這部分的話那是不是我們也可以來做一些修正比如說我們這一個你這個如果要房東要去調漲這一個房租的話那是不是呢就原來這個租金的這個水準然後參考周邊的這個住宅租金的這個水準還有物價上漲率啊還有出租人重大修繕所支出的費用然後就 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13451.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13478.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
房租上漲的要件頻率幅度加以限制那作為管制房租的一個手段有關於住宅出令的部分的話我們就持續滾動檢討那個委員剛才提的建議其實我們也可以其實也可以來來評估來檢討看看對啊我的意思是說不是說那就第一個交由市場來決定那第二個就是說那有什麼問題就是這個消保法或是說到什麼鄉鎮調解會去做處理其實我們的這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13480.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13505.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
租賃住宅市場的管理條例第六條其實已經有說得很清楚了這個條例對於住宅類的部分其實對於租屋服都有一些相關的保障時間有限就先到這裡謝謝委員謝謝李坤城委員下一位請黃建豪委員黃建豪委員不在請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在下一位我們請吳佩儀委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13512.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13516.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
好 謝謝主席我請部長及署長劉部長 吳署長有請部長好 署長好今天我們討論的是住宅法的修法詢答那我自己也有一個提案版本是關於第22條的修法但是首先我想整體來說我們關注的是社會住宅它如何可以繼續的來去幫助我們的居住正義那過去因為我在台北市也擔任地方的市議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13543.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13569.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
這麼多年的期間我們台北市持續在興建社會住宅那現在當然也遇到了找地的問題那我想整體來說社會住宅有三點是最重要第一個是量就是我們必須要持續興建或者是找包租代管要多的房源持續增加第二個就是租金要讓民眾是可以達到可負擔的租金第三個就是他的對象我們目前法定四成必須要有弱勢來居住但是弱勢的對象也包含很多個項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13570.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13598.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
哪些人应该要优先居住这个都是这几年在实务上在执行的时候我们会遇到的挑战那现在呢我看最新的统计去年我们全国的社会住宅新建加包住代管已经达到20万户的目标那下一个目标就是我们百万租屋家庭支持计划我们希望新建要持续达到25万户包住代管也要到25万户另外有50万户这其实已经超过了就是我们租金补贴的数量 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13598.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13619 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
这个要持续的来进行那也非常感谢内政部因为在我的选区台北市中正万华区我们中央的万华安居这个第一个在当时动土的时候我也有我上次是市议员也有参加非常的期待今年就有机会要开始的落成要招租了那另外也有零销好市已经动土了 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13619.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13627.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
好再來是新河安居也就是我們國防部這個南機場9號基地已經核定在規劃當中所以我們是非常的支持社會住宅持續來興建那我提的這個版本22條的修改呢他就是關於我們的地價稅跟房屋稅按照現行法規的規定是地方政府是可以適當的來減免地價房屋稅的只是說他有一個5年要一次檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13646.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13663.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
為什麼我認為這個很重要因為過去在台北市曾經發生當地方政府一度認為說涉宅的租金要去考量自償率甚至自償率要放回優先的時候曾經一度把涉宅租金的定價公式納入了地價稅跟房屋稅也就是說當他地價稅跟房屋稅加入分母的時候你分母變大分子也要變大結果什麼東西變大了租金就提高了 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13670.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13675.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
所以我們一直非常的重視地價稅房租稅其實可以減免所以當時呢這個地方的市議會要求市政府要來檢討這個公事那後來確實也把地價稅房屋稅拿掉了那我看了一下基隆市政府其實有訂定一個自治條例就直接明訂了房屋地價稅在涉宅的租金當中就其實不用記錄那我現在想要請教一下因為我們按照現行法規這個五年一次檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13696.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13717.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
其實馬上也要到期了就116年的1月就一年多的時間內政部這裡目前的態度是我們會來向行政院報請就延長這個減免的時限嗎是跟我們報告因為其實房屋稅跟地價稅是地方稅那所以我們都通常就是我們現在做法就是因為我們基本上要尊重地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13718.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13746.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
但是要提早告知他所以我們原長都會提早先跟院報就希望延長那我們就會跟地方這邊來溝通那當然如果地方已經主動來做這樣的一個事情我想是比較好那另外一個是不是看是 所以我們已經報請行政院沒有 因為我們就會整體一起報所以我們確定是會朝向這個檢院延長的這個方向去報好 那我覺得這非常重要也要提早跟地方政府來溝通因為這個民眾最擔心的就是社宅好不容易蓋好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13747.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13768.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
但是萬一租金實在太高反而是超出了可負擔那就失去了我們一開始興建社宅要去達到居住正義的這個美意這一點我覺得非常的重要那再來就是要關切的是除了租金以外我們能不能去照顧到弱勢者這個我也要感謝內政部因為在台北市我們皆有的聚集地其實在我的選區就是萬華蒙甲公園龍山寺前面這個公園廣場 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13773.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13791.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那我們今年終於要開始進行改建那也就牽涉到了我們街友要大量的來協助安置的問題所以非常感謝內政部協助我們來去協調台北市政府新北市政府和基隆桃園市政府我們要來提早的進行安置而安置的房源很重要一個就是包租代管的設宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13792.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13822.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
它是过去都是要新建一个统一的安置场所现在有这个化整纹理的方式但是我们也发现到在包租代管的这个租屋市场之上弱势户要来承租其实常常房东可能会有一些担心跟考量所以这次我非常感谢因为内政部跟台北市社会局都有协助我们来去辅导房东告诉他们说这我们后续都社工会持续的来去仿施照顾让他们免去这些担忧我们针对就是弱势户来协助他们在包租代管的市场里面 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13822.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13829.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
能夠去比較能夠去找到住房就是輔導或者獎勵房東的部分我們是不是有相關措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13830.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13855.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
跟委員報告就是我們現在來講的話針對這個弱勢當然其實最主要是要提高房東的意願那房東的意願來講其實以目前我們跟台北市政府的合作經驗來說是直接像委員所講的有設公司那有一些我們專業的服務人員去告知房東我們可以提供什麼樣的協助讓房東在這方面比較不用擔憂其實他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13856.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13880.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
倒不會比較計較在這個稅負方面的他們比較擔心的是這進來以後會不會以後變成我的負擔那所以這一點我們在目前合作是跟衛福部的合作裡面大概這樣的方式是比較恰當的也會讓房東房客都比較安心所以就這一點來講那至於對那另外一個就是說我們是透過公益團體的話公益團體再來轉租那其實我們是會給公益團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13884.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13901.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
這樣他會有再另外補助給他那請他來協助那這樣的話其實他能夠也就近直接照顧他那這樣的話讓房東房客兩端都是比較安全這個部分我知道現在這個內政部跟衛福部確實有這個弱勢房客儲遇的協助機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13902.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13923.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
但是我的提案是23條住宅法希望可以修法我覺得還是要入法比較是可長可久的一個保障但是我想我們先就現階段你們在執行上面的這個遇到的這個狀況我們可以先來討論那我希望後續我們能夠來繼續持續來去評估修法的方向好謝謝好謝謝吳佩儀委員下一位我們請范雲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13936.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13957.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
謝謝趙偉有請部長劉部長有請部長伍安辛苦了那個最近要面對很多在我聽起來很不專業的質詢我想我今天是想要為那個青年特別是學生請命那我是有看你們的今天的報告那在修法上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13958.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13983.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那看起來好像內政部覺得不需要把青年的部分放在裡頭因為有各種的部分那我今天是想說不管修法的不管這次修法你們要不要納入青年那有些事情其實是不用修法現在就可以做的那希望就是內政部可以去研議那第一個其實我們的住宅法第一條講的全體國民那當然這包含學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13983.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
14000.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
那只是學生他的問題就是他不是可能不是經濟社會的弱勢但他有可能因為離鄉就學那本身還沒有穩定的收入那變成在外的一個結構性的弱勢譬如說他如果在台北市跟在花蓮 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
14001.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
14025.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那租金各方面面对到的条件都不一样所以我说他可能是阶段性的结构上的弱势那这边其实监察院的报告可以跟让部长知道一下他也表达说其实目前大概有14%的学生想住宿舍就完全住不到那而且呢这个14%是全国来看如果看都会的话更严重 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14027.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14049.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
根據教育部給我的資料供給率倒數15名的學校有8所學校在雙北我想這個部分部長應該很了解這個是都會特有的議題所以監察院講的14%想住應該可以住的住不到的它其實不成比例的是分佈在雙北有8所學校部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14050.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14072.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
當然就是在你們今天的報告中說其實如果是自己住在外面的話你們有租金補貼可是我們以雙倍為例大家都知道雙倍的租金越來越高平均一個學生可能每個月要花7000到1萬次根據現在租金補貼單身倍率1.2每個月其實只能申請到3600 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14074.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14089.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
甚至還有一些不肖房東因為有這個補助他還漲了房租所以就一個在雙北的學生每個月即使得到你們的補助還是要負擔從三千五到一萬不等看他學校的黃金位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14090.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14115.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
當然你們說他如果是中低收入或等等可以申請社宅可是我們剛講的社宅在社救法目前還是以家庭為單位可能他家裡基本上還沒有到中低收入或者是弱勢生長等但他本人在經濟上方面可能就需要打工那我自己曾經在私立大學兼課就知道學生打工的情況非常的嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14116.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14143.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
因為在台北市的生活費很高所以我今天是希望這是一個機會我們來做雖然修法上你們認為本期的版本的青年不用納入我今天是想訴求就是說部長可以做一些還不需要修法就做的第一個內政部應該跟教育部共同了解住宿供給率跟品質主動輔導學校來申請相關的計劃甚至提高補助那第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14145.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14164.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
租屋的部分也可以擴大包租代管的民間住宅鼓勵他轉租給學生那納入就是學生相關的經驗在制定相關的政策第三個既有的社宅如果是在雙北地區或者是某些地方那我知道有一定的弱勢比例那在可能的範圍內因為每個區情況不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14166.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14182.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
是不是有可能能够专案跟学校合作转租给学生那我知道这些都不容易那今天教育部有高教师赖专委在这那教育部这边我也在push他们那他们基本上也承诺往你们这个方向移动 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14183.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14200.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
可是跨部會的合作難度很高我很高興在你們今天的結論中有講到涉及學生原住民等社會福利事項本部會積極與教育部等部會溝通所以部長是不是可以承諾我近期之內那就 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14201.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14220.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
你們的相關的單位就跟教育部溝通那我非常的願意擔任兩部會之間的橋樑來解決這個特別是雙北那高校裡面學生租不到房子被迫要打工然後影響學就說就學權益的這個這個階段性的結構上的弱勢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14221.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14235.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
謝謝范委員對於大專院校學生尤其是北漂的這些學生的一個支持那您所提到包括宿舍或是租屋或社宅的部分其實我們只要跟教育部其實都常常在有溝通那目前為止我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14236.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14261.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
最有可能去處理的是租屋的部分就是擴大包租代管的民間社宅但是民間社宅的房源尤其是在比較熱門的幾個大專院校的附近房源不容易找到如果房源很容易找到的話我們其實在用包租代管的方式來解決轉租學生的問題會最快也不需要修法因為社宅的興建就有一定程度的供期 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14261.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14261.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
好,可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14278.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14292.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
感謝啦因為我們其實在租金補貼的部分當時就是也到考慮到很多學生他其實說穿的都是住在違法頂價或地下室所以我們後來把租金補貼把這些都涵蓋進來那所以基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14293.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14314.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
可以補助的範圍已經涵蓋到在學區內幾乎所有可能的條件大概都有了雙北如同我剛講的他還是要自負額還是蠻高的對對對所以就這個部分來講因為整個的結構如果要去調租金補貼的話是一個結構的問題那至於就是年輕人的部分那這個我們可以再來做一個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14315.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14336.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
因為對於可能有學生要包含年輕人甚至婚姻家庭他們也有類似的因為他們算在一般戶他們不算在弱勢戶那所以這一般戶的部分我們是不是有另外要去講我想這個我們都有跟行政院再提出一些建議那這個再給我們一些時間我們再跟院這邊的溝通看這部分可不可以再做另外的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14336.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14356.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
那謝謝剛剛部長說二租的部分可能性比較高那其他的部分就是謝謝署長的回應那是不是能夠在譬如說三個月內給我一個初步的報告呢那我也會追蹤一下促成你們跟教育部的積極合作好不好沒有問題好那謝謝部長辛苦了好謝謝范營委員的諮詢下一位我們請王國威委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14369.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14374.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
好謝謝主席我請我們劉部長劉部長有請部長今天大家主要討論聚焦在住宅法那分黨派的委員不管是放寬入住的資格提高經濟弱勢的比例或者提高這個房租的扣除額基本上都 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14393.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14420.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
圍繞在就是特別是在社宅的部分或者你在整個的租金補貼可不可以擴大加惠更多的需要房子的民眾但是我必須講我們這個社宅的推動從蔡政府時代到現在的賴政府時代都有喊出比如蔡政府時代喊出了是8年20萬戶而賴政府時代喊出來是百萬戶的這個租屋家庭的支持計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14422.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14443.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
那这里面呢大家都知道我们的社宅的进度极为缓慢所以也都用了这个包租贷款或者住金补贴的方式呢去做替代但是即使如此即使如此我们真正的社宅的目标其实已经不但是牛部化而且是龟部化了 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14444.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14461.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
因为如果按照蔡政府时代的8年20万户里面包含新建12万户的社会住宅然后在赖政府是预计呢要直接的新建社会住宅也有25万户所以加起来呢是37万户37万户 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14462.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14488.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
好可是根据我们内政部自己不动产资讯平台现在所显示的资料全国的社会住宅完工户数当然还有一些规划的或者在新建中完工户数其实只有三万户只有三万户也就是说不管是之前前朝蔡英文政府或者现在的赖政府你们的 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14489.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14516.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
直接興建社宅的目標37萬戶裡面真正完工可以提供給民眾來入住的只有3萬戶所以真的我覺得大社宅大謊言所以我們如何去加強加速我們社宅的興建是非常非常重要的另外呢我們講到就是租金補貼的部分來 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14517.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14538.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我們其實我們政府當然希望減少大家民眾的租金的負擔提出了這個房屋租金補貼計畫可是可以看到在都會區七大都會區裡面的租金的漲幅事實上遠遠高於我們的平均薪資的漲幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14539.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14562.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
所以如果你看台北市可能还比较顿化可是新北桃园新竹都在10%以上如果你看新竹县它的涨幅是两成以上所以也就是说民众的薪资它的涨幅是没有办法跟上真正都会区的房租的涨幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14563.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14579.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
好我在这边呢我要提醒内政部就是中研院经研所经研所在去年底他发布了一个就是台湾消费者预期与政策反应调查很重要他是跟政策相关的 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14580.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14601.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
的結果是說受訪房東有24.3%近三年有漲租金的已經漲租金或者準備漲租金所以也就是說在房東裡面將近有四分之一他們都是準備要漲房租的那這個計劃時間暫停一下你們要討論的話應該是事後 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14609.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14612.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我知道我現在因為你們這樣你們就沒辦法聽我講我要跟那個跟部長還有我們署長說這個中研院調查非常特殊 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14623.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14646.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我们的租金补贴计划也就是政府的租金补贴计划放进去做调查他特别放进去做调查他来了解一下我们的政策跟实际会不会影响房东要不要涨租金跟实际房租有没有调涨有没有关联性 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14647.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14672.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
他特别把这个政策放进去做调查而最后出来的结果是这个房东方面我刚刚讲有24.3%他会这三年他会调涨租金其中竟然有19.7的受访者说为什么他要涨租金呢因为他认为政府有补助房租 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14673.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14687.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
政府有補助房租所以我覺得今天會出現一個困境那個困境是什麼呢政府去補助房租是因為要減輕我們民眾租房子的負擔對不對這應該是一個得證 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14690.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14714.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
可是没有想到到了市场竟然变成房东认为说他一定先问你你有没有接受政府的补助啊他说我可以你会不会去申请啊我会去申请他因此反而把这个部分调涨租金了他反而反映在我刚才讲市场所呈现的租金反而调涨 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14716.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14721.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
租金反而調漲那可能這邊大概19.7%20%好了他可能這20%還帶動了其他我隔壁漲那我們房東一樣賣房子租房都一定是這樣嘛我一定會調查一下我旁邊的房子賣多少錢租多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14735.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14751.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
可能因为这个理由反而带动了租金上涨也就是说我原来是得振结果没想到他竟然成为推升租金上涨的一个原因了所以我觉得这部分要特别注意到 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14752.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14771.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
因为我想中研院经验所他们也不是阿里布达的什么单位而且他特别去把这个项目把它放进调查他也希望知道我们的政府政策有没有反而到了市场反而变成一个反效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14772.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14799.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
所以我覺得這點是我們可能要特別去理解特別注意的我沒有說我們提供房屋租金不好我們也希望能夠去解決民眾的負擔但是如果它反而變成一些我也不能說是貪心的房東啦很多這個房東他都會他能收多他就要盡量收多嘛居州反而他認為說我要租 張旗開來跟我租房子張旗開 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14800.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14814.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
你有沒有符合規定那你要不要去生意反正那些錢是政府幫你出的嘛我就把租金提高一些說反正不是你付的所以我覺得要特別小心這樣的效應好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14816.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14834.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
好所以我才講說請你們能夠仔細聽一下我不是在講我是說希望你們回去針對中研院經濟所他們的這個調查政策反映到市場實際的租金的影響能夠特別去了解一下好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14837.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14848.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
謝謝王宏威委員的諮詢下一位我們請何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在下一位我們請林倩琦委員林倩琦委員林倩琦委員不在我們請羅志強委員羅志強委員羅志強委員不在下一位我們請張祺凱委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14869.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14877.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
來 寶丁 我們繼續 長時間悠閒 我們繼續再把陸沛教練來 部長有請喔到三天了 欸 寶丁你請來 部長來來 你要先站上去嗎 嘿 好喔嘿 還可以 好好好 來 寶丁好 嘿好 來 我們繼續啦 繼續長齁我們繼續幫這個陸沛還有他的子女 解決問題喔寶丁 你長... |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14893.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14922.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
因為那個陸委會也承認說移民署把這個有些那個陸配的小孩是沒有在大陸涉及的他寄的通知單要他回大陸去除籍那你昨天也道歉了嘛那現在我們要來補破網要幫他們解決問題啦現在到底要怎麼解決這個問題不是跟他道歉而已他知道有三件事要做除了道歉是不是應該補一個函去跟他們講說我們之前寄錯了是不是必要的話人家如果已經回大陸去那應該國賠啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14923.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14944.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
是不是最初開始來做第一行 你知道逃走嗎是不是應該先去一個行跟他們講說我們之前記錯了張委員我昨天也有跟您解釋過我用單一的案例來解釋那我有特別提到說這些人因為他是在大陸出生那在大陸出生的時候他當時有沒有其他的證件是我們不知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14944.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14967.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那他自己本人可能不知道我昨天還是前幾天我提到的部分就是說那個可能是他的父母代為申請他的證件所以我們移民署在通發出去的時候也是要求他們要就這方面要提出他們的說法那這個說法我昨天也特別到移民署去聽他們的簡報那簡報的時候從北中南一共有六個我們的服務站 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14973.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14996.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
第一個現在進縣的電話少很多那對於我們提出6加2這樣的太陽的話呢大部分都了解還有人用email的方式或是打電話過來問那我們都一一跟他解釋清楚那再來就是委員有提到說那這樣子是不是有一些來台灣比較久的這個已經取得台灣的身份證的這些中配或者是陸配要再跟他們說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14997.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
15024.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
對但是我們可能會透過就是所謂的這個這個新住民的這個協會的方式啊來做說明也就是說但是沒有辦法一個一個但是我們去他們的比較長生活的區域譬如說您剛有提到可能您昨天提的案例呢是在北三都我不說明特別什麼地方我大概知道是哪一個地方那北三都有比較多中配居住的地方的話呢我們移民署 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
15024.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
15048.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
或者是其他的這個中配的這個這個福利的這個權益的團體會去跟他們說明清楚這個6加3的樣態是怎麼一回事主動去說明這個是對的而且根本要解決問題其實是我昨天提的就修法把這個93年3月1號之前的就全部用拒絕來這個但是目前這個沒關係我知道我也問過陸委會目前為止並沒有修法的需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
15050.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
15068.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
有需要啊 民眾的懲請就這樣我問過入委 93年以前並沒有修法的需要你現在甩鍋要陸配去回去大陸拿這個我們沒有甩鍋 應該是說我們要把它清除比較清楚一點這樣子那你21年前沒做的啊所以你在法律上應該就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
15069.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
15089.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
政府存在目的就是服務人民嘛你不要製造成擾民啊對不對你要服務人民這樣子的不便我們已經跟委員解釋過就是希望能夠到他們比較多聚集的地方包括他是年老的媽媽或者是比較年輕或者行動不方便的人去跟他說清楚是怎麼一回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
15089.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
15115.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
那如果真的是在法律上需要或者我們的樣態需要再做修正的話我們可以根據這些資料來做修正但是我昨天已經跟您報告過從21號開始申請到現在我們其實已經累積好幾百份甚至詢問的電話超過一千多所以這樣的部分呢大致上都能夠合乎我們的了解的程度但是我們這些匯集的資料如果還有不方便的地方的話我們還可以再檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
15116.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
15134.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
但是這個檢討的部分並沒有涉及陸委會他們的修法寶丁你現在提的方法就是六類排除嘛那我一直在跟你講這六類排除沒辦法滿足絕大部分人的困難所以我們民眾黨會提出一個修法就用時間點來劃分只要民國93年3月1號之前的全部用拒絕來把它處理第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
15140.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
15158.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
之後的就是授權由陸委會跟內政部來定說你到底要怎麼樣把六大類再擴大這沒關係我們會提出修法那現在我提的是另外一個我也肯定你說我們說你要去辦說明會嘛你現在願意去辦這是很好的可是我剛剛點的那個點是說你舉了一個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
15159.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
15181.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
所以有人是媽媽特別又去幫他辦了這個大陸的這個戶籍嘛這只是一個個案啊現在是很多人根本就是出生的時候就沒有辦一直到現在都沒辦結果你們的移民署變成擾民了你應該是先清清楚啊先查過嘛對不對政府你自己要先查過說我確實在大陸是沒有有戶籍的你才叫我去把它拿掉嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
15181.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15210.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
就不是啊你前面把他放出去把他丟出去造成人家的困擾啊我們是通知出去我們是通知出去請他來跟政府機關說明清楚就這樣而已將心比心啊我知道我都了解你是二代你明明就在大陸就沒有戶籍啊我知道我也有實在你收到這張你收到這一張這是政府造成人家的困擾欸是說你昨天道歉嘛對不對你昨天講的就是不變的部分嘛不變的部分並不是表示要違法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15211.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15221.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
不變也要合法這件事情就是你造成了人民的不變嘛 而且是一個勞務啦因為不變所造成的困擾但是並不是表示我們違法啊我們還是合法啊他就沒有東西 你怎麼可以寄給人家不是 所以他要到我們移民署來拒絕嘛他就沒有 為什麼要去拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15238.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15253.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
欸保定我本來就沒有大陸的戶籍你突然寄了個通知我還要因為你自己沒有親過一次然後因為你道歉完之後你補破網我跟他講說你不用回大陸去你現在叫人家去拒絕喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15254.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15269.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
報告我們有清過一次但是這是電子檔我們希望除了電子檔以外包括目前還有一個團體叫做中華民國大陸災包救濟總會他所提供一些比較舊的資料那我們也在清查當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15272.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15301.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
那我剛剛講過對於不變所造成的困擾我們確實需要改進所以我昨天也趕快請我們移民署看有沒有什麼改進的方案讓大家能夠知道說這件事是為了保障他在台灣合法的公民的一個權益這是我們應該做的你道歉只道歉了一半耶這件事情一開始就是你要寄出去之前你就跟移民署跟陸委會你要先簽過說你要寄出去這個人到底有沒有大陸的戶籍嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15302.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15316.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
你沒有做這個事情所以你才需要道歉啊啊現在已經出去了你要趕快記所以我說你一個禮拜內你要清清楚楚要嘛一通電話要嘛你要補記一個喊去跟他講說欸 抱歉我打擾你了我弄錯了是不是我剛剛說將心比心啊如果是你的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15319.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15334.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
啊你明明就沒有大陸戶籍啊你接到沒有我說如果是你或者是我被你這樣接到一個搞不好我剛講第一個那你要趕快去補正啊就說我之前是我政府的叔父啊第二可能更嚴重欸你4月2號就寄出去啊有些人已經回到大陸去啊這要不要國賠 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15342.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15353.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
要國賠嗎我一年沒貸沒錢你叫我去大陸把戶籍移除掉我從來都沒有啊我回大陸又碰了一批紙灰又回來我可以要求國賠嗎報告委員如果有這個個案的話麻煩請給我們來參考好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15358.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15371.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
如果有這樣的個案是可以要求國賠嗎不是 請給我們來參考一下我們看如何來補救或是補正 好嗎跟國賠不一定完全關係我昨天已經跟您說過了不變 並不是表示一定要違法不變 但是也要合法所以部長 第一個 你道歉然後你說要不要國賠這個有個案你進行檢討現在最大的問題還是在第二部分是不是我們國賠請求失效的部分是需要法律來認證不是我們兩個說了就算補定 補定沒有沒有 你第二部分還是沒有 第二部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15387.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15412.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我剛剛一直在強調的 你明明應該是你清查過說我沒有大陸戶籍有的話你才叫我去出籍嘛 對不對你在造成人民這個困擾 你現在都不用去 你說道歉之外你不用去通知對方一下嗎這是無妄之災 而且是政府造成的擾民啊 不是有沒有 這是不是造成擾民啊 不然你到底在道歉什麼啦我說第二項你到底做不做 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15413.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15417.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
如果一直問也就是說這個是要做的啊他們說一個禮拜內要去通知啊他們不給我們討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15422.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15446.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
所以你的意思是你不去補給這個函去更正嗎報告委我已經跟你回覆過了如果造成不便的地方那我們在服務上面我們會做修正但是無論他是用什麼樣的角度來看他就是要合法我們是為了保障他在中華民國這個自由地區裡面的合法的公民的權益否定他合法啊他合乎你規定你叫他去除籍除大陸籍愛不服啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15447.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15454.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
除極跟拒絕中間就是有一個緩衝的角度你不要把拒絕跟除極兩件事情合在一起 你要彎轉多港啦保定 你一直在講合法他就沒有 你叫人家去通知人家 可能已經跑回去大陸了或者是現在受到這個困擾 你是不是應該去補正 要更正你不用更正嗎 要不要更正沒有 你給我一句話 你意思是不更正啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15473.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15484.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
跟委員解釋過了無論怎麼樣有造成不方便的地方需要去說明我們會去說明但是無論怎麼樣我們是要保障它在台灣是合法那更何況以前的這些以前的這些資產我們有部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15489.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15502.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
報告委員行政程序上他這樣子的不管是戶籍也好或者是什麼樣子的證件他理論上都是要到海基會有公證認證之後我們才能確定把它算成是真正的公文書這樣的過程當中確實是不方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15505.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15525.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
但是我們因為不方便我們也提出這樣子最後的服務方式就是說去跟新住民的權益委員會一起合作再跟他們說明清楚那這一點我們能夠做的盡量做可是我還是跟委員講第一個在兩岸人民關係條例的一個規範之下我們是希望他已經朝著合法合規的方式來處理柏定你造成你找民然後錯誤污辱造成人民的困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15534.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15563.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
對啊 所以你現在只是說你我是說我要求是說你再補一個函去跟人家道歉說你沒有這個問題對不對你說你要另外一個方式喔用說明會的方式喔那天早上對方要來聽你那天人家有空可以去聽你說明嗎你自己的一個函造成人家的困擾政府不就是要服務人民嗎你們去辦演講還好這不是老闆老闆被你們被你們激到一個不死不蕩的一個通知函 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15565.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15566.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
你們不用更正喔這怎麼會按照規定嘿嘿 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15584.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15610.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
好 OK 那我們沒關係 我昨天問過一次了今天問了 那今天有一些進度嘛 對不對不只是道歉 你也做了一部分抓去公開說明嘛那現在可能卡住了一個很重要的點連陸委會主委都認為說應該去補正這個 要去更正了你現在不記 沒關係 我們進一步再來討論今天是第二集嘛 對 這是連續劇我們幫陸配跟幫這些子女我們一定要幫他爭取到該有的權利嘛而且是政府自己堵指自己施指大烏龍當然你要去補正 沒關係 我們第三集我們再繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15615.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15626.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
謝謝張綺凱委員請相關的機關因為這個事情也確實也蠻嚴重的就是會後積極溝通啦這樣我們才不用花掉比較多會議的時間讓全民去看看到底還會有討論的機會謝謝張綺凱委員下一位我們請葉延芝委員葉延芝也不在下一位我們請林俊憲委員林俊憲委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15639.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15661.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢我們尋答到此結束丁雪忠委員高金素美委員邱振軍委員黃建斌委員所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報書面質詢和未及答不負分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會現在我們宣讀討論事項所列法案之條文請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15664.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15692.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
第二条文高金素梅等27人提案第四项修正为目的事业主管机关应是原住民族教育及语言文化等传承发展需要会同主管机关新办投资或奖励民间新办专供或一定比例以上为原住民成租之社会住宅增订第五项第六项前项之比例由目的事业主管机关会同主管机关横着当地居原住民人口发展及居住需求定制第四项用于新办投资以及奖励资金费 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15692.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15712.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
除主管机关由中央住宅基金之意外目的事业主管机关得由原住民族综合发展基金之意其奖励资格条件方式其成绩其他应遵行事项之办法由目的事业主管机关会同主管机关定之其余同现行条文委员郑天才等18人提案第四项修正为中央主管机关与原住民族委员会应是原住民族教育及语言 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15712.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15736.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
文化等传承发展需要信办或奖励民间信办专供原住民成租之社会住宅其经费由中央住宅基金指引其余同性情条文第四条委员黄建豪等16人提案第一项中户段增订提供50%比率出租与育有未满12岁之家庭增订第三项第一项有关育有未满12岁子女之家庭依其符合资格之子女人数得有优先顺序成租 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15737.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15744.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15761.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15781.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
委員蘇巧慧等17人提案 委員李昆城等24人提案 增定第二項第八款 八欲有未成年身心障礙者一人以上 原第八至第十三款 款次異 其餘同線型條文委員馬文君等19人提案 增定第二項第八款 八戶籍內欲有未成年身心障礙者一人以上 原第八至十三款 款次異 其餘同線型條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15781.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15801.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
委员高金素梅等27人提案第一项40%修正为50%其余同县庭条文第十条委员刘许婷等16人提案增订第三项至第七项前条第一项第三款补贴或其他机关办理各项租金补贴之核准案件由各该核准机关进行登录成交案件实际资讯以下简称登录资讯 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15801.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15826.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
前项登录资讯除涉及个人资料外的提供查询第三项登录资讯类别内容与前项提供之内容方式收费费额及其他应征形式项准用不动产经纪业管理条例第24条之一第五项锁定办法之规定第三项受理机关为查核登录资讯得向租赁双方要求查询取阅有关文件或提出说明受查核者不得规避妨碍或拒绝 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15826.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15842.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
前项查核不得去确保登录资讯正确心目的之必要范围其余同现行条文第15条为赖世宝等17人提案第一项末段修正为但每屋每月租金收入免税额都不得超过新台币2万元其余同现行条文委员李燕秀等17人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15844.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15872.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
第一项末段修正为但每屋每月租金收入免税额都不得超过新台币25000元其余同现行条文第18条台湾民众党党团提案增订并修正为第18条中央主管机关应兼职社会住宅需求登记平台供全国符合本法第25条第一项资格民众登记并定期统计分析其需求资讯作为评估社会住宅新办户数供给区位房型配比以及公共设施提供等重要依据纳入住宅计划及财务计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15872.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15889.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
委员徐新颖等26人提案第一项增订并修正为主管机关应建制社会住宅需求登记平台公符合本法第25条第一项资格民众登记并定其统计分析评估社会住宅之需求总量供给区位群伴户数房型配比以及公共设施提供等需求资讯 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15889.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15907.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
并纳入住宅计划及财务计划增订第二项因特殊因素无法自行登记上传资料之申请者主管机关应定定办法协助之委员高金素美等27人提案第一项修正为主管机关应评估社会住宅之需求总量当地人口发展原住民人口发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15909.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15924.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
及其居住需求区位及新办户数纳入住宅计划及财务计划增订第二项同委员徐新颖等26人提案第一项增订第三项为因故无法自行申请者主管机关应予以协助之委员林沁琪等23人提案修正为 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15925.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15943.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
第十八条,中央主管机关应建置社会住宅需求登记平台,提供符合申请资格证明中登记并以登记之资料内容作为分析评估社会住宅新建之需求户总数量、新建地域区域位、房型设计配比以及公共设施需求等之新建依据、纳入住宅计划及财务计划。 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15944.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15966.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
第十九条台湾民众党党团提案增订第一项第八款罢列为区段征收公办室地重划应取得必要公共设施原第八款一列第九款增订第四项以第一项第八款新办制社会住宅中央主管机关应横着开发面积预计人口数以及周边地区社会住宅需求等因素定定办法规范应取得要件及数量标准其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15967.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15987.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
为零限期的23人提案增订第一项第八款八利用列为区段征收及市地重划之土地人第八款已列为第九款增订第四项以第一项第八款之方式所取得之土地至少需留设不低于50%之土地面积作为新办社会住宅之使用其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15988.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
16010.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
台湾民众党党团提案增订第19条之一第19条第1项第6款新办之社会住宅各年度计划物件总量中采成租民间住宅并转租及代为管理以达50%为原则并优先转租与符合本法第4条第2项之对象中央主管机关应与卫生福利部协同建立弱势储育协助机制 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
16011.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
16028.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
第20条台湾民众党党团提案第二款修正为二以区段征收取得可供建筑土地或市地重划取得底废地和建分屋其余同线性条文委员林倩琪等23人提案增订第五款利用列为区段征收及市地重划之土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
16028.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
16049.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
原第五款一列第六款其余同意现行条文委员牛许婷等17人提案增订第21条之一第21条之一于拟定或变更都市计划时都市计划拟定机关应横着当地人口发展局居住需求会商统计主管机关评估划定社会住宅专用区并将评估结论及理由在明于计划书内 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
16049.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
16077.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
未储备社会住宅土地以区段征收或市地重划办理都市计划之开发者除以依前项规定办理者外与开发财务损益平衡时即应保留一定比例其余可供建筑或折抵抵付共同负担之住宅区土地供主管机关依前条规定办理拨用或租用不得标收标租或设定地上权前项至一定比例由中央主管机关横着当地人口发展及居住需求定之第22条文吴佩义等17人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
16079.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
16099.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
第23条委员徐晓鑫等20人提案委员黎英秀等17人提案第二项第一款后段修正为每屋每月租金收入免税额度不得超过新台币25000元其余同现行条文委员赖世宝等17人提案第二项第一款后段修正为每屋每月租金收入免税额度不得超过新台币20000元其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
16100.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
16116.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
台湾民众党党团提案增订第二项第一款一第十九条第一项第六款且采成租民间住宅并转租及代为管理者住宅出租期间所获租金收入免纳综合所得税但每屋每月租金收入免税额都不得超过新台币三万元 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
16116.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
16146.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
原第一款一列第二款并修正为二千款以外者住宅出租期间所获租金收入免纳综合所得税但每屋每月租金收入免税额度不得超过新台币一万五千元原第二款一列第三款其余同现行条文委员徐新英等二十六人提案第二项第一款修正为一住宅出租期间所获租金收入免纳综合所得税依第十九条第一项第六款规定新办每屋每月租金收入免税额度不得超过新台币二万五千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
16146.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16166.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
以第十九条第一项第五款及第二项第四款规定新办每屋每月租金收入免税额度不得超过新台币一万五千元其余同现行条文委员吴佩义等17人提案第一项后段增订出租与第四条第二项经济或社会弱势者身份得利于奖励删除第三项原第四项一列第三项其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16167.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16188.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
第24条委员林倩起等23人提案第一项同性型条文增订第二项民间新办之社会住宅有下列情形之一并经主管机关评估其必要资金之取得有困难者主管机关应提供必要之融资贷款信用保证应提供至少80%以上比率出租于经济或社会弱势者而位于有严重住宅供需失衡之地区者 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16188.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16218.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
第25条委员林黛华等17人提案增订第5项第二项租金之定定如有调涨需于周月到期前60日公布且每次调涨不得超过原租金之一成其余同现行条文委员罗志强等16人提案第二项后段增订65岁以上之社会住宅成租者其租赁与续租期限主管机关应予以例外延长第三项后段增订并修正为以收入作为急剧定定分级收费原则每两年检讨之并送立法院审查其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16218.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16240.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
台湾民众党党团提案第二项中断增订租金调整文字第三项修正为社会住宅成租者之租金计算中央主管机关依依家户所得与财产计算可负担能力定定分级收费原则并定期检讨之其余同现行条文委员徐新颖等26人提案第三项修正为社会住宅成租者之租金计算中央主管机关应斟酌成租者 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16241.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16257.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
家户所得状况家户财产及人口负担能力及市场行情定定分级收费原则并每二年检讨之其余同现行条文委员高金素美等27人提案第三项后段增订并修正委以收入作为极具定定分级收费原则每二年检讨之其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16258.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16282.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
第四十条台湾民众党党团提案第三项后段修正修正为直辖市县市主管机关应以领取租金补贴及列册弱势家户为优先对象清查不符基本居住水准家户之居住状况并定地辅导改善执行计划以确保符合国民基本居住水准增订第四项前项辅导改善执行计划得以专案提供社会住宅租金补贴修山住宅补贴等措施办理 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16283.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16310.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
人第四项一列第五项便修正为中央主管机关因补助并督导直辖市县市主管机关执行第三项清查作业并另定办法规范第四项专案措施其余同现行条文第四十七条台湾民众党党团提案增订第一项第二款二租赁住宅市场不同物件形态物领之每平均均数与中位数价格资讯其中属本法第九条第一项第三款第十九条第一项第六款之物件应优先办理 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16310.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16327.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
原第二三四款款次第一其余同先行条文委员徐欣盈等26人提案增订第一项第二款二注定住宅市场不同物件形态物零之美评平均数与中微数价格资讯原第二三四款款次第一其余同先行条文第52条台湾民众党党团提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16328.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16352.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
第二项后面增订其中属第十九条第一项第六款成租民间住宅并转租及代为管理物件之补助总金额不得少于每合成出租双方及代为管理物件二倍其余同现行条文委员高金素梅等二十七人提案增订第一项第二款二租赁住宅市场不同物件形态区位房型配比物领之每平均数与中位数价格及公共设施提供资讯 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16352.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16361.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
原第二至四款款次第其余同现行条文委员连续庭等16人提案增订第57条之一第57条之一申请第九条第一项第三款补贴 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16362.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16388.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
或其他机关办理至各项租金补贴之人提供之租金或面积资讯不实经受理机关登录资讯者由中央执辖师或县市主管机关处新台币一万元以上五万元以下罚还提供之租金及面积以外资讯不实经受理机关登录资讯者中央执辖师县市主管机关应令其限期改正借其未改正处新台币六千元以上三万元以下罚还违反第十条第六项规定规避妨碍或拒绝 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16389.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16390.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
好 谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16406.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16426.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
我們請行政機關這個針對過去的公聽會今天的這個尋答的一個結果提供更詳細的相關資料以立未來討論這個大體討論跟主條討論的時候的參考那麼我們討論事項所列議案我們今天定期繼續審查本次會議到此結束現在散會 |