| IVOD_ID |
16620 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16620 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-24T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-24T13:42:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:12:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd730853615cfad2729b5fa2f296a93534bd9360bdedb085226931b1919b321f355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查一、行政院函請審議、二、委員沈伯洋等17人、三、委員葛如鈞等21人、四、委員賴瑞隆等17人、五、委員黃捷等17人、六、委員林宜瑾等18人、七、委員陳素月等24人、八、委員林俊憲等16人、九、委員羅美玲等21人、十、委員吳思瑤等17人、十一、台灣民眾黨黨團、十二、委員邱若華等17人分別擬具「資通安全管理法修正草案」案、十三、委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「資通安全管理法部分條文修正草案」案及十四、委員李柏毅等18人擬具「資通安全管理法第二條及第十一條條文修正草案」案。
【僅進行詢答及宣讀提案條文】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 13:42:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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現在主席委員已逐法定人數現在開會請議事委員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2057.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2084.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期交通委員會第七次全體委員會議議事錄時間一百一四年四月十六日星期三上午九十至下午二十六分四月十七日星期四上午九十至中午十二時十六分地點本院紅樓二零一分一時出席委員魯明哲等十五人列席委員林月琴等二十七人列席官員四月十六日交通部部長陳士凱等四月十七日國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信德等 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2084.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2096.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主席林昭吉委員國城4月16日報告四項宣讀算數會議議事錄決定議事錄確定1.邀請交通部報告業務概括並備諮詢2.邀請交通部部長等進行專題報告並備諮詢本任會議由交通部部長陳士凱等報告後紀委員洪孟凱等26人提出諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2103.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2125.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
軍艦部長陳士凱及相關人員分別願意答覆決定1.報告及詢答完畢2.為郵號等三人所提書面諮詢均列入記錄並刊登公報3.委員諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡數以書面答覆通過臨時提案五項4月17日邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2128.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2153.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
報告業務概況並被諮詢本日會議由國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委林信德報告後藉由委員洪孟凱等16人提出質詢均請主任委員林信德及相關人員分別予以答覆決定一報告及詢討完畢二委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請國家運輸安全調查委員會盡數以書面答覆四案會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2160.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2183.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
現在介紹在場委員,我們就會有那個洪孟凱委員葛如軍委員黃國昌委員黃捷委員列席官員有我們的書法部部長黃燕蘭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2188.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2212.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
世衛產業署林俊秀署長自動安全署蔡福隆署長國家自動安全研究院林穎達院長電信技術中心林輝堂執行長台灣網路資訊中心黃聖雄董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2216.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2235.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
製策會 范俊毅執行長國土安全辦公室 劉正安參事法務部 李子綺檢察官調查局 自動安全處 張遊仁處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2241.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2249.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
國安部通信電子資訊參謀次長是資安暨網站整備處張克勤處長國安局第五處孫組長陸委會資訊是陳盈哲主任人事行政總處 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2271.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2298.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
培訓考用處賴嘉陽專門委員主編人力處谷元寧專門委員情緒部退輔師邱德敏專門委員各自保護委員會籌備處隱私科技組林益成組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2304.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2320.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
現在道場委員還有我們的李柏毅委員林國成、趙偉那請問各位委員對伊斯路有沒有意見沒有意見我們就確定伊斯路 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2329.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2340.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
本日進行資通安全管理法修正案共14案的審查先請委員說明提案要旨首先葛如君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2355.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2381.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好我們時間也三分鐘左右啦謝謝沒問題首先要謝謝主席對於國家資通安全的重視那在今天排審資通安全管理法修正草案也感謝跨黨派的立法委員同僚們大家共同關注資安的議題那駭客攻擊事件呢在全球是持續升溫根據統計尤其是以製造業 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2381.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2406.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
和醫療保健產業在台灣的受害情況最為嚴重近期我們台灣也發生多起醫療院所遭到駭客攻擊的事件引起民眾對於個人病例資料外洩的擔憂和疑慮我個人在教育文化委員會也關注非常多的學校在前線可能也有這樣的一個陰影由於地緣政治的關係台灣每秒遭遇駭客攻擊大約1.5萬次我現在講這句話的過程裡可能就已經超過10萬次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2410.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2434.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
是其他地方的四倍台灣的電子產業尤其半導體業非常的發達全球駭客通常會針對台灣的重點產業來發動攻擊來竊取重要的機密資訊另外一方面台灣有高達95%的企業又是中小企業能夠投入資安維護的資源相對的稀少容易成為駭客用來練兵的對象因此 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2435.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2464.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
本席所提出的修法版本第四条特别强调为提升通讯安全自通安全政府应提供资源整合民间产业的力量并提升全民自通安全的意识与此同时政府也应该协助民间来处理因应以及防范自通安全的事件套用资安界著名的随从理论整体系统的安全性取决于最低安全程度的一环若将整个国家的自通安全视为一体政府应该有责任也有义务要投入更多的资源 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2465.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2480.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
協助民間企業來提升他們的資安能力才能夠有效提升我們國家整體的資安能力除此之外本席所提出的修法版本也特別重視公正第三方監督查核的重要性唯有納入公正第三方的監督才能夠確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2481.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2507.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
國家資通系統的建制以及後續的維護管理皆符合資通安全相關的規定另外在修正案的第10條有關資通安全管理機制的建立與實施上我所提出的版本也特別強調公務機關或特定非公務機關於本法適用範圍內委外辦理資通系統之建制維運或資通服務之提供該系統屬委託機關之核心資通系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2508.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2521.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
或委託金額達1000萬新台幣以上者委託機關應另行委託公證第三方進行安全查核那我的修正案版本第11條也特別強調公務機關以及非特定公務機關應規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2523.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2552.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
并于公正第三方的监督之下办理资通安全演练作业相关的规范呢希望能够有更多公正第三方国际公正第三方的安全监督才能够有效确保国家自通讯系统的建制以及管理那我想我们也希望呢能够依照资安相关的规定以及标准来运行以上是我所提出的修正草案版本的重点也恳请各位立院同僚部分党派一同来支持谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2561.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2585.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
謝謝現在我們請台灣民眾黨黨團黃國昌委員說明謝謝主席還有所有與會的官員跟委員台灣民眾黨黨團提出刺痛安全管理法相關的修正草案主要有兩個重要的原因一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2586.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2596.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
過去法案規範的強度跟密度明顯不足我相信過去幾年來非常多的學者專家以及關心國安 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2598.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2625.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
都全部提供出來寶貴的意見第二個事情是我在追蹤的時候發現超級荒謬的狀況是我們國發基金投資的公司在我們的軍事要塞設中國的通安的產品明顯違反相關的法律但幾次的質詢搞了半天沒有法律可以處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2627.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2646.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
問國防部國防部說請他們拆掉就算了這樣會有賀止效果嗎因此我們這一次所提出的直通安全管理法規範的草案跟行政院的版本相比有五大特色第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2648.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2666.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們成立國家資通安全匯報這個匯報希望一方面由行政院院長親自來家裡召集另外一方面能夠納入外部的專家學者讓整個資通安全匯報它不僅僅 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2668.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2679.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有公權力作為後盾的強度同時也有外部的專家可以來進行共同參與公民社會的監督第二個特點 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2680.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2704.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
規範的主體範圍擴大目前就有關於在自動安全管理法裡面非公務機關跟特定的非公務機關那我們希望把它納入的範圍包括受政府控制的事業團體或者是機構那這樣子才不會讓一些重要的設施重要的機構應該納入規範卻沒有納入規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2708.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2730.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第三個部分針對過去有關於自通安全管理法裡面所要規範的危害國家自通安全產品這個規範課題從來在母法裡面就沒有明確的定義那為了要符合法的明確性的原則以及跟後面的法則能夠相配合我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2731.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2747.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在法律的層次而不是在授權行政命令的層次明確的去定義什麼是危害國家自通安全的產品第四個部分針對有關於公務機關在一定的條件下可以例外使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2749.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2769.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這一些可能有危害國家安全之通產品的情況的時候我們就例外使用的情況他例外使用進一步不可以是開放的授權而必須要有進一步強度的規範包括指定的區域跟人員包括了購置的理由消失應該要銷毀等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2773.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2795.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那第五個也是最重要的一個在違反相關法律的時候一定要有罰則啊這個罰則的強化要確保相關的行為人在違反國家自動安全管理相關的規範的時候必須要有清楚的法則啊否則像聯合再生在我們的軍事要塞裡面啊裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2796.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2816.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
中國的資通訊產品被抓到了以後到目前為止沒有任何的處罰只是叫他把東西拆掉目前還跟國防部在爭執不願意把東西拆掉現在東西都還在我們的攔指部這種荒謬的狀況可以停止以上說明 謝謝謝謝 我們現在請黃哲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2834.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2854.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好謝謝主席在場所有委員還有所有的官員大家早安那在我的版本裡面我必須要強調我還是針對這個中共的妄害的手法來提修法因為大家知道說台灣不只是遭受到中國的軍事的武力威脅那我們也面臨非常嚴重的資安的攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2855.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2873.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那也一直都是全球資安工坊的重災區那以去年的數據來看就好就知道說政府網際網路的這個服務網每天遭受到的侵擾是240萬次然後甚至是前一年的兩倍那也都不斷的在增加當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2874.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2894.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那我們國安局其實有提供一份報告裡面有提到說這個中共網害手法的分析報告去年中共對台灣政府和民間的網路駭客的案件集中在電信業者電信業者跟交通還有國防的供應鏈三大領域當中然後遭受到的攻擊是前一年的6.5倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2895.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2920.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那過去幾個月有聽到說在醫院、學校、私人公司遭受到中國駭客入侵的事件那也有駭客試圖要竊取病人的個資還有醫療紀錄上面的他們的資料來上網販售導致掛號系統暫時失靈甚至是被害的私人機構還遭到勒贖成功的事件發生在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2921.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2941.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以這都顯示說在台灣的資安侵擾真的越來越頻繁而且是非常非常嚴重的國家安全的威脅所以在我的版本裡面也希望可以補足現行法律的漏洞那有提出跟幾個院版比較不同的地方是其中一個是要明定公務機關跟特定的非公務機關不得採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2942.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2971.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
以及不得使用中資的廠商還有中國的地區包括港澳啊還有境外勢力等等實質控制的組織還有提供的資通服務還有系統跟設備那我希望這個修法的目的是要讓台灣的資安系統上面可以完全的阻斷紅色的供應鏈所以也希望所有的黨派都可以來支持來確保台灣的數位安全也希望資通安全管理法這個會期就可以三讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2978.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2980.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
謝謝我們請李博弈委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2992.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3014.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
謝謝今天交通委員會來排審資通安全法這一個法我是在第一個會期的時候提出來的台灣面臨最嚴重的網路攻擊、資安攻擊以及認知作戰這一個部分的修法我們希望可以針對資安攻擊裡面包含所有台灣的除了政府部門以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3014.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3042.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那我提出了修正第二條希望來明訂全責機關單位之外我又修正第十一條也就是公務及特定非公務機關應設置資通安全長之外資通安全長應通過職安訓練機關的評量或主管機關合格者那這一些裡面包含國家重要基礎設施包含台電中油台水證交所醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3043.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3063.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
還有掌握重大個資的各個公司等等我們希望都可以列入這一個修法的管理那所以說面對敵對國家也就是中國逐漸的升級無所不在的網路攻擊那我們希望透過這個修法那可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3066.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3088.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
可以很有效率的可以很有效的保護到所有台灣所有相關的這些資訊安全的內容那也在這邊懇請交通委員會跨黨派所有委員的支持大家進行討論 謝謝好 謝謝 現在我們進行機關報告請速發部黃部長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3106.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3120.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
主席各位委員女士先生大家早今天應邀列席委員會議針對資通安全管理法修正草案以下簡稱本修正草案進行報告說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3121.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3149.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
自動安全管理法是從107年6月6日制定公佈108年元旦正式實施以來至今從未修法近年來全球自動安全威脅日益升高與政府與關鍵基礎設施平成駭客攻擊的目標各國如美國歐盟日本等皆陸續強化治安法及執法的機制以維護國家安全及經濟穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3151.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3162.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
現行自動安全管理法於108年正式實施累積執行經驗後發現部分條文無法有效回應新興治安風險經管理的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3163.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3191.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
近年來國內陸續發生多起治安事件如醫療院所遭入侵機敏資料外洩關鍵基礎設施遭攻擊顯示現行制度仍有不足漏洞期待追捕本修正草案旨在強化國家整體資通安全法律規範促進政府跨機關合作及區域聯防並提升公司部門治安的防護能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3193.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3219.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
賴總統在114年3月13號召開國安高層會議並親自召開記者會提出五大國安及統戰威脅以及17項因應策略其中提及各主管機關需防止敵對勢力透過網路應用程式AI等工具危害治安應該修正強化自動安全管理法以健全我國治安環境並落實實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3220.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3243.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
本修正草案於113年7月4日提報行政院院會通過並含情立法院審議立法院於113年7月12日一讀交付委員會審查並經再檢視與總統上街式的內容相符本次修正共修17條有六大重點 摘要如下第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3244.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3257.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
明確主管機關及各機關全責是修正條的第二條修正本法與主管機關皆為數位發展部並明定國家自動安全業務由治安署辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3258.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3274.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
第二導入導入中央地方聯防機制中央政府地方政府協同合作共同應對突發事件與重大挑戰的運作模式以提高應變效率降低災害事件對社會的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3276.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3290.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
再來就是擴大治安的集合範圍這裡面是包括修正條第8條第14條跟第15條修正治安署的集合無上級機關或監督機關如總統府國家安全會議及委員將集合範圍擴大至全國的公務機關能夠協助各機關檢視及精進治安的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3297.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3319.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
再來就是完善特定非公務機關及委外廠商的監督這是修正條文的第10條公務機關或特定非公務機關於本法適用範圍內委外辦理自通系統的建置、維運或自通服務的提供應選任適當的受託者並要求受託者建立有效的自通安全管理機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3320.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3349.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
並監督該機制的實施確保委外廠商落實資安防護機制避免納管機關產生資安防護的漏洞再來就是限制高風險資安產品現行各機關有關危害國家自動安全產品的使用是以行政規則各機關危害自動安全產品限制使用原則規範提升至法律未接並明確授權 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3350.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3375.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
再來就是要增訂行政調查機制修正條文的第25條增訂中央目的事業主管機關對特定非公務機關重大自動安全事件進行調查並了解治安事件的根因並訂定更完整的保護機制提升國家整體的自動安全再來就是要訂定自動安全能源設置的要求這裡面是修正條文第19條第20條21條跟23條 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3380.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3398.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
機關應符合自動安全責任的等級要求設置責任安全專職人員強化專業知識增訂特定非公務機關應設置自動安全長及符合自動安全責任等級的設置專職人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3400.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3416.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
增訂資安人員適任性的查核機制此次資通安全管理法修法後希望能夠帶來各方面的效益尤其是在強化國家整體資安防護提升公司部門的資安任性來因應信心威脅根據前瞻性的實效 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3417.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3439.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這裡特別感謝各委員對治安法的關切跟期待各委員所提出的治安法的草案版本本部都有收到也都有延期雖然有些文字跟院版有些出入但大致內容跟修法方向都跟院版草案相同懇請委員支持治安法院版草案通過以強化五國治安的防護謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3449.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3473.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
謝謝其餘機關報告請各位參考書面並列入紀錄刊登公報那今天進行選檔因為後面那個版本很多要念很久所以我們委員的那個質詢時間就比較太長那也請那個我們那個時間到的時候如果超過一分鐘再想一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3475.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3498.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好 那尋找時間出席委員5加1分鐘 內席委員4分鐘委員發言登記於10點半截止各委員如果有臨時提案請於10點前提出 以便議事人員會展暫定10點半休息10分鐘 中午原則上不休息現在請登記第一位委員 侯孟楷發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3508.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3509.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
好主席謝謝麻煩請黃部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3518.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3546.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
部長 資安法的修法我想朝野大家都有正向的回應跟版本那就是代表是說對國家安全來講我們責無旁貸但有幾個部分我想還是要跟你進一步的就教也落實說到底我們資安法修法之後能不能真的達成我們速發部所要達到的一個目的所以首先我們看到是說現在的一個未來的集合以及公務機關的這些集合等等都會由我們資安署這邊來負責 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3547.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3557.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那治安署的這個集合因為所有公務機關不管是特定的非公務機關或是公務機關都要來負責的話那這樣子我們的人力夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3558.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3582.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我們治安署當然就是說這方面目前我們是有每一年至少集合40個單位40個單位至少40個單位那當然未來但現在納入來之後是全部的公務機關都要所以說所有的我們現在A級機關如果連飛特定飛公務機關加起來應該有90個單位90個單位每年大概96個單位嘛96個單位所以我們當然就知道等於是一倍多的業務量 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3584.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3610.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我看到你們第32條還講是說得委託其他公務機關來辦理國家自動安全防護的演練跟集合所以你們未來還會再委託出去因為中央事業目的主管機關他們對他們自己下面比如說像台電油水電這些公司應該像經濟部就會去那本席要問的問題是說那這一些人員有可能他是最了解整個國家公務機關的這些資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3612.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3639.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
安全機密的部分那他們的查核就相對重要了也是要有特殊查核對不對也是要有特殊查核好我們來看一下現在特殊查核是有相關規定的我找到下一頁仁氏行政總署他也在去年的12月的時候又再把特殊查核的職務依然表再秀出來那其中本席看到來上一頁我們資安資通安全署目前只有規定到科長級以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3640.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3642.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
是要經過特殊查核的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3643.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3670.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
但是就如同我們最近在講外交部的這個資義的事件他的職等沒有到很高可是他要經手是部長的外交行程也因此當一個資義長期在部長旁邊然後拿到相關的資料的時候他流出去的機密不知道多少他的變成在政府底下變成是一個共諜那他可能跟部長沒有什麼兩樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3672.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3684.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
來 那我請教未來我們是不是要把我們的相關的這些集合人員也要放入因為現在其他部會也都有這樣的考量他是說不是用職等來區分而是用他經手的業務來區分 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3686.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3712.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這個我想這個我們再進一步去在部裡面根據行政院的規定我們會再進一步看怎麼樣去修改部長我們現在就在已經在討論到修法了如果說未來這個修法通過之後馬上就是變成是我們速發部資安署的業務那資安署馬上就要上路了我也看到你們講是說你們的集合的方式是要報行政院來核定但是總是這些都要先預想啊那個我請那個署長再來簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3716.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3740.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
謝謝委員給我這個機會說明我想剛剛委員提到的這個適應性查核或是特殊查核其實非常的重要那我跟委員報告一下那在治安署裡面的確剛剛委員所講的在科長級以上的主管是要做一些特殊查核但是我們是根據業務的一些涉及到機敏性來決定查核的範圍例如說在我們通報應變組裡面它所有同仁是要做查核就是根據這個組它的特性 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3742.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3762.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那您的法源依據咧但目前為止我們只有看到公務人員的服務辦法裡面有所謂特殊查核那這個特殊查核表是報出去之後由法務部調查局來做特殊查核那你說其他人員是誰來做特殊查核也是請那個法務部調查局那您的法源依據在哪裡那這不需要法院 這個是實現規則你要報那你的人員的名單你要報啊如果說你沒有報的話你怎麼有辦法讓法務部調查局 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3768.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3789.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我們會報人員跟職務的這個職稱是啊那你現在報了嗎就是我們的通報應變組他這組因為他涉及到其他機敏的相關的一些資訊所以他人員就會做一些適應性的這個特殊查核我現在問的是說報了沒我們應該是有報不是應該來 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3796.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3823.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那個現在已經有報過了對就是我們像有一些特殊性的一些組我們就有特別要求做一些比較重要的這些所以未來去集合的人員都有特殊查核對 未來的部分就是我們會增加試驗性查核試驗性查核指的是一般查核就是根據公務人員的利用法的第四條那再加上那是一般查核嗎但是我們現在講就是說各 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3825.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3844.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
來本席現在提出來就是要因為外交部的這個事件大家才看到是說當一個資義他可以守今守部長的行程相關的時候結果他只有查過一次就他到任的時候的一般查核但是他的精明程度 精守的程度非常的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3846.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3869.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
一樣嘛 如果說未來我們的資訊安全都是由我們治安署來查核總統府也是治安署 五院也是治安署那他們可能99%的同仁都非常好但只要有一個害群之馬 只要有一個老鼠屎的話他就有可能經手的資料出去的東西是破口 是漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3869.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3892.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以本席才會提出來是說到目前為止只有這個部分那未來是不是應該要增加那還有這個是公務人員任用法那如果說未來有委託委外有非公務人員的如果是委外的話 我們那個治安法裡面的實行細則裡面對委外人員涉及到國家經濟等等相關的部分也要做一些試驗性查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3893.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3918.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
有編列在這個資安法裡面嗎目前的新年汽車裡面就有這個部分好OK來那部長我再請教所以部長這個部分是本席特別提出來請在修法的過程裡面也一併要納入考量因為既然要做就不要有任何的漏洞那另外第二個部分危害全國家的資通安全產品我看到我們在第11條新增就是過去沒有法源一句我們把它給法源一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3920.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3948.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
2023年那個時候有講說我們現在差不多公務機關有上千項的產品軟硬體上千項是禁用的那未來我們的這個法制化之後這個清單會不會出來那個鮑委員因為這種東西產品一直在變而且它可能會棄產地所以我們不會給清單但是我們會隨時在審查跟通報但是這樣子我們的所有公務機關大家能不能夠掌握跟了解我們會通報所以會有個database |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3949.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3977.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
會有Database會持續的update嘛因為本時有看到其實更重要譬如說啦上上個月那個人工智慧的軟體中國大陸製馬上我們這邊也下令是說不准公務機關使用嘛那所以未來軟體的部分我們會適時的增添會審查然後檢驗跟通報就是會有個通報的一個Database所以依照這個相關法的依據適時的增添但是所有的公務機關以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3979.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3998.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
列管的重要的非公務機關也都會掌握所以不會有誤用的狀況應該不會我們會落實這個審查跟之前有媒體有問到是說那到目前為止因為既然我們現在要修法嘛那過去可能有用的地方那現在有沒有全部都盤查現在所有機關都沒有用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4000.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4011.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這個有沒有落實因為之前媒體報導講的是說有一些產品它可能有特殊無可取代性所以說還沒有辦法完全的進行所以到目前為止我們現在掌握的狀況如何是 謝謝委員剛剛的這個指導我想的確是 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4017.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4033.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們有一些禁止使用的原則但是有一些例外原則例如說在一些教學或是研究的現場等等的那這些如果有需要的話一定要報部裡面同意之後在一些安全管控的環境之下例如說不能連公務的環境等等管控之下才可以使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4034.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4055.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
是那報部裡面同意署長所以我現在只是想問一件事啦就是這也是剛剛台灣民眾黨的總召黃國昌委員因為我聽過他太多次他都在質詢同一件事情我只想問我們現在清查了會不會再過一個月兩個月之後又報出哪一個部會用了我們的這個禁止列管的禁止的產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4057.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4076.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我們現在有沒有全面清查因為給你們兩年的時間喔2023年開始我們也到現在2025年了你現在要修這個治安法那我們也同意我們也認為是說應該要加強我們國家的安全維護那但是現在通盤的去做檢驗除了有些特殊的有特殊報 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4079.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4102.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
備註書面你們有列管以外到底現在有沒有跟委員報告我們每年都有清查就是政府計畫有沒有使用到這些不敢掛保證每年都有清查然後如果他例外要使用的話都要報裡面來特別的根據他的理由來核准等等剛剛已經跟委員報告過了市長你沒有回答到我的問題你是個聰明人但是你不敢回答我這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4103.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4117.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
目前我想我們都有在清查這方面是不是有什麼使用部長 不好意思一句話啦資安大家都關心不分朝也不分黨派但重點在於是落實我覺得科技日新 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4119.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4142.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
萬億但是重點落實才能夠防止因為我覺得最重點還是人性這一點請部長這邊好好的我們之後逐條審查的時候會好好的逐條審查有委員不同版本有提出來跟我們行政院有多一些更加嚴謹或是更加精進的地方也拜託我們速發部真的要用開放的態度來做一起的思考謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4151.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4161.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好 謝謝 我們請李昆哲委員謝謝昭緯 請一下黃部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4168.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4189.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
部長您好 相關國家的資安架構是非常重要的不管是公部門或者是非特定的公務機關我們發現到相關的資安人力的配置是嚴重的人力不足那相關的資安人力的配置就好像是一座城 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4189.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4212.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們相關的資安架構就是要守護這一座城的相關的基本的人力基本的人力不足的時候其實成本是很容易被攻破的要一個打十個不是每個資安人員都是越問我們來看我們數位發展部我們的資安署所公布的統計資料就是2023年 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4214.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4221.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
就是中央及地方公部門它依法配置的資安專責人員要有1533人但是實際編制的正式人員只有939人它僅佔需求的61.25%而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4232.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4256.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
如果說我們中央級地方的公部門非正職人員因為正式人員不足我們有一些非正式人員的人力補充包含約聘僱委外總共335人即使再加上這一些外聘的人力公部門的缺額還是達到239人就是說有近16%的缺口沒有填補那 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4258.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4271.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
人力的不足啊 職安人力的不足 部長有什麼具體的想法嗎我們部裡面針對 剛剛講就是說一個當然就是我們有一些訓練 轉職系的訓練那預計今年都就是大概是500 450到500 就會補今年會補制裁400到500個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4277.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4304.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那另外當然我們有高考的所謂的資安類科那個也大概我們會增加我們的宣傳希望更多人來報考那希望從這些訓練管道轉職系跟高考的這樣一個人員來補充我們現在資安人力不足的問題那細節是不是資安署署的資安署這邊我還是要提醒你們我們公部門的資安的人力是嚴重的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4304.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4320.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那當然主要的原因就是待遇不具競爭力工部門的薪資是低於業界這當然是不爭的事實以及現行的人事的規定它彈性不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4321.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4344.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那我們看看特定的非公務機關像關鍵的基礎設施的營運單位或者是國營事業或者是經過指定的重要民間機構它其實同樣依資通安全管理法它還是需要建立資安的組織跟專責的人員它其實也同樣面臨資安人力不足的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4346.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4373.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我認為我們公司部門同樣面臨這種專業的資安人員的編制不足以及正式的編制人員大概只有六成出頭那剩餘的都要靠約聘跟委外來處理那其實它的外流這種職位的穩定性還是嚴重不足了離職率非常的高來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4374.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4400.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
是謝謝委員的指導委員所講的確是一個非常重要的一個問題那的確是因為現在資安人力非常有限所以各個領域各個部門公司都在競爭有限的資安人力那待遇的確是一個非常重要考量的因素那因為公部門的待遇的確是沒有辦法跟市部門的這種待遇薪資來比較所以在人才的競逐上面是比較吃虧所以我們有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4401.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4415.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
包括一些獎益的措施 待遇的這些流採的措施目前是有一個增資加給就是只要是有這個A級的機關他可以有些增資加給來增加他的一些待遇不過這個還是永遠不足以對 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4417.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4436.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
是否能夠將資安人員來列入這種高風險的專業的職系提供額外的這種職級的晉升跟員工加級來留住人才這個是不是以後要推動的一個方向是的我們會努力那這個要跟人事總署這邊再來積極的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4438.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4460.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
另外我們對於地方機關的資安的問題同樣他的資安責任以及他實務的推動還是有陷入相關的困境我看到我們台灣2024年每週平均遭受3993次的攻擊這是全球平均的138.6%是亞太之罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4464.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4481.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那當然我們看到修法好像只是聚焦在相關的集合通報流程的提升它其實它制度的最脆弱最核心的漏洞還是沒有去能夠完全的防禦那我們看看全台灣368個鄉鎮當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4486.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4509.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
有超過上分之一是沒有專任的資訊人員更不用說資安人員那原鄉地區有很多人他一個人要負責多種的業務社福、民政、急難救助以及相關的這些工作他還要再加上資訊的這些工作一人身兼多職 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4510.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4527.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那我要嚴肅的請教一下蘇發部我們有沒有去盤點鄉鎮層級的實際他的資安的基礎能量以及這些機關有沒有基本的偵測跟通報的能力來說明一下那個我們在署長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4528.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4545.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
謝謝委員講到一個問題的重點就是地方基層的這種資訊或資安能力不足的問題那這個當然人的問題有時候不是短時間內可以解決那我們目前是從整個架構上面是向上集中因為這是重要的資訊系統還有資安的防護主要還是由縣市政府這邊來負責整個的規劃跟推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4549.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4577.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
規劃跟推動你們有沒有要去建立相關的這種區域的資安資源的團隊面對這種編制跟人力不足還有資安的漏洞所以我們才會說向上集中之後再建立一個區域的資安的團隊例如說跟當地的一些大學等等的合作由他們來做一些相關的資安的一些不管是檢測還是防護的防護的輔導跟協助我想這種公私協力才有可能把這個鄉鎮公所的這個資訊或是資安的能量來提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4578.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4602.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這都是很嚴肅而且很嚴重的問題最後我問一個問題就是說我們的資安的事件它相關的通報制度以及它揭露的一個問題我們來看看其他國家跟我們台灣的這些相關揭露以及通報的這些的落差那台灣主要是要求內部的足跡通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4603.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4618.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
其實對外揭露缺乏強制性因為我們台灣的資安法主要是強調內部通報那規定政府單位以及特定非公務機關發生資安事件的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4618.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4633.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
他依照事件的等級在一定的時間之內要足及的上報主管機關跟行政院的資安的這些主管機關那其實對外揭露方面他其實沒有強制的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4634.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4657.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
只有在涉及個人個資的時候會適用個人資料保護法而要求通知當事人那但是我們個資法的規定也相當的籠統缺乏明確的時間的這些實現跟處罰那實際上其實是有很大的問題那我們來看看美國歐洲日本韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4659.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4681.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
他們都有明確的規定他們規定24至72小時之內有強制通報及揭露的這個制度那這個對重大事件的公開揭露及通知的義務他們都有明確的規定那我是不是具體建議我們重大的資安事件應該在72小時之內就要通報政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4682.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4697.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
另外要建立揭露的義務跟他的一些差別性的罰則來避免這種沉默的共犯造成食安更大的漏洞那食安的通報是不是能夠比照食安的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4699.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4720.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
具備強制揭露跟風險預警的功能來簡單說明一下謝謝委員建議我們現在是有要求就新的治安法有要求通在一個小時之內要通報不通報的話要會有罰則所以這個應該是會比委員建議更更更力道會更強一點不過但這個這個我們會在這個新的治安法現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4720.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4739.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我知道我們也有相關的這個規定我們是要更明確的在相關的法則以及在制度的追蹤監督落實這個方面必須要更具體啦不要落於這種只是虛文的一個規範而已我們會嚴格執行好謝謝委員好 謝謝我們現在請蔡其昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4760.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4782.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
謝謝主席請速發部黃部長請部長部長好部長針對今天這個主席安排要來審這個法案本席也有提了 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4783.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4812.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
這個修正案 修正案的版本那修了好幾條但其他我想跟行政院大同小異的我們就不談但其中這個第四條本席的版本提到政府應該提供資源協助民間處理因應及防範知通安全威脅事件部長你有注意到本席的版本嗎有那部裡面有沒有什麼看法對於本席這個條文的提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4813.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4840.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我們現在有這個治安本來就是需要公司協力所以我們現在是有那個就像TW社這樣一個機制讓通報協助來處理一些治安的事件那所以這個我想委員的提的版本跟我們未來要推動的應該是相同我想概念上你們不會反對但本席為什麼要加進去我希望讓你們有法源的基礎為什麼我要這樣提呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4842.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4868.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
部長你看過監察院對有一個調查報告在公告時間是113年的1月18號主要的暗由就是針對這個民間企業及個人資料外洩上網被兜售的事件這裡面包括雄獅旅行社、中華航空、合運租車等等其他這個企業那這個被盜的數目各自都是百萬筆、數百萬筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4870.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4896.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那本席認為這個大型的這種事件危害到大型公共事務或者是各自大量的這個洩漏本席認為這樣的事件不可以跟一般民間譬如說單一的一個什麼貿易公司啦一個什麼民間的企業他的電腦被害或者他幾個客戶的資料被偷我認為這個不可以用相同的角度來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4896.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4926.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
就像你們這次的修法裡面為什麼你會針對大型這種所謂不是大型這種政府所謂的關鍵性的這些設施啊譬如說過去培洛西議長來台灣訪問我們的這些政府公部門這種電子屏幕上面出現電子螢幕上面出現這個被害的然後有一些攻擊台灣的文字或者攻擊台美關係的文字的出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4927.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4935.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那這個東西你們這一次裡面認為這個要處理嗎沒有錯嗎沒關係如果有要代替回答我也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4936.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4960.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那個這個主要是因為他用了一個產品就危害國家自動安全產品所以才產生這些事情所以這個從危害國家自動安全產品裡面可以做限制不過剛剛委員講的沒有錯就是對這種大型的公司尤其很多各自的公司的確就是要加強管理那我剛剛講就是說這個當然我們特定會公務機關這個定義這個講就是說其實各事業目的主要機關他們可以去要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4960.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4973.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
比如說像這個像I-LAND可能就交通部可以就是說類似這種東西被要求的單位他有特殊的那個資料或特殊的服務那當然是可以被要求納入這個我們的特殊費工機關來特別去監管對 你們從產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4978.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4997.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
產品端這個第十條第十八條都是企圖從產品端來限制那我的意思產品端限制我等一下再跟你討論我也很支持但是除了產品端的限制如果他產品沒有問題他可能買的就是美國產品他不是買一些奇奇怪怪包括中國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4998.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5027.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
然後呢結果他被害以至於他的舉個例子譬如說現在大型的入口有大型的廣告看板電子看板這個其實越來越多公司規模越來越大那在特定的時間點我駭入他然後就直接把我要的政治訴求譬如說兩岸有任何問題的時候他直接把政治訴求就打在那個台灣重要入口的電子屏幕上面那 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5028.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5058.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
產品沒有問題就你在產品端做審核查核沒有問題它本來就產品是美國製啊然後再來它是大型企業它可能一時被害它沒辦法處理那政府這時候應該要協助吧部長你認為對 這會協助對嘛所以我的意思是說給你們一個法源讓你們在面對這種大型攻擊或者是竊取很系統性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5059.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5082.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
數量規模極大的你們可以因應有法律條文裡面政府要來提供資源協助民間處理然後防範這種安全威脅 資通安全的威脅事件所以部長我訂這一條你知道我的用心良苦讓你們有知道說我們其實可以引用這一條那這一條規範裡面到底什麼範圍是你們要處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5083.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5091.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我想就授權應該你們來授權給你們來去規範出說到底哪一些部分因為這個其實影響很大如果我們只界定在 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5093.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5117.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
政府只在於關注那些所謂基礎設施啊關鍵性設施啊我認為那個遠遠不足對國家安全的防護在自動安全的防護上面我認為遠遠不足所以本席認為應該要來來制定這一條這個是一個很重要的原因那第二個啊我們對於我剛剛講過我們現我們在產品端上面啊我們現在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5118.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5142.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
不只中國啦反正只要我們認為這個有安全疑慮威脅的就不可以嘛對不對那我要請跟部長討論一下就是現在的東西越來越多因為隨著科技的發展越來東西越來越多譬如說我隨便舉一個例子那個自動販賣機啊當它有Internet的功能的時候它上面也有螢幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5143.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5167.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
它上面也可以連結上網嘛因為它的支付現在透過雲端不是我們傳統的自動販賣機投錢按下去完全機械原理然後領錢領出飲料現在的自動販賣機不是這樣那我相信越來會越複雜所以自動販賣機它是不是資訊通訊產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5170.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5194.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
只要連網都算我認為以後會越來越多啦那個保溫杯也可以以後也會啊因為它可以直接連網然後記錄你每天喝多少水然後你什麼時候會去裝水你每次都裝多少CC然後可以辨別出你這是水還是茶還是可樂還是什麼都可能嘛都有可能那這些只要一連網它也是保溫杯也算是 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5196.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5213.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
資訊通訊產品所以這個範圍你們要去界定啦因為現在我們想像裡面不可以只界定在手機啊平板啊電腦啊不是這個這些概念所以部長你現在這個這瞭解對書發部要去瞭解好那最後一個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5215.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5241.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
最近有一個新聞我想大家也都注意到這個前臉書的總監指控中國介入Meta審查台港用戶的發文部長你有注意到這個新聞我先不去論說介入這個事實到底真相為何因為現在有一點各說各話那我們就靜待它的發展但本席對一點我覺得很有必要拿出來探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5243.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5258.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這個多數很多的團體這裡面藍藍綠綠都有不斷的我們會接到接收到陳情或者抗議抗議什麼抗議有一些文章啊為什麼會在這個Meta的這個社群平臺臉書上面就消失 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5260.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5282.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那交涉之後他們可能會去詢問Meta公司說為什麼我的文章會消失但正常的程序是他們得不到任何的回應或者就算有回應都不是什麼正面回答你的問題都是牽扯其他或者一個簡單他們什麼內部的什麼規定或者內部的什麼一個原則他大概就簡單回答你這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5283.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5301.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那本席是覺得是這樣每一個公司企業經營他有他內部的一些規定規章本席沒有意見但本席認為這種規定規章應該要公開透明可被檢驗這個檢驗包括使用者本身包括政府本身所以如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5303.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5317.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
訴發部認為這件事情你們現在做不到原因是什麼如果你們覺得該做他該修法他就應該被修法哪有可能他把任何一個敵人滲透正是因為他不需要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5318.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5336.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
他覺得不爽他就把你刪是不是這樣部長你懂我的意思嗎那換言之這裡面我講的不一定是什麼藍綠喔每一個色彩政黨都有可能被刪只要看他高不高興那他也不需要回答你啊他就跟你講說我們的公司就是可以刪 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5338.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5365.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
所以Meta的審核機制的確是不是很透明那我們也在美國因為這個不透明所以連美國國會參議員也在做聽證所以我們也是看聽證的結果那再跟Meta我們會跟Meta交涉就是說這個第一個要透明化那這個要下架應該要讓民眾了解所以我想這個我們會持續關注部長我的意思剛剛你沒有聽懂我的意思就是說不要再溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5366.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5372.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們現在講韌性在國防在安全上面的韌性台灣我們應該主動的把這些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5374.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5399.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我們就法令嘛 全世界 我們是 台灣是民主法治的國家 美國也是但台灣的國情跟美國不一樣嘛美國所面臨的即刻性的威脅 並不 台灣比他們強大 危險太多啊就我們的那個急迫性比他強化 強太多所以我們面對 民主自由沒有關係 我用法治的角度我直接速發布 認為你就是要揭露嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5400.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5423.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我就直接告訴你指引是什麼我就直接公布這個叫規則甚至如果要修法立法院我們來支持我想大家都會支持啊因為你為什麼把人家刪文你應該要有一套事先你公布什麼沒有關係你至少讓我知道所以你們就是挺共的所以只要罵到共產黨就一定刪除那我至少知道那我就不用你的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5424.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5447.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
你都不告訴我表面上你又裝的一副很民主很自由言論開放但事實上你刪了什麼你為什麼要刪這個你背後是不是有這個共匪的勢力在後面指導我怎麼會知道呢我這樣講你你也不高興嘛因為你覺得你沒有嘛那你沒有你要刪人家的文你又沒有一個指導一個原則一個告訴你我的遊戲規則是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5449.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5476.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個才是問題的所在啊所以你再去跟他溝通因為我每次在這裡講Meta你都說要去喝咖啡啦對不對從詐騙一路到今天都是這樣子嘛那本席一直認為這個不可行啦你要喝你還是可以喝但沒有效果嘛你看我們最後還不是不斷的在立法院修法給你武器他也是美國公司嘛守法很重要啊你到人家落到每一個國家落地就要遵守那個國家的法令嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5477.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5498.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
所以中華民國的法令是什麼我們應該速發部要有一些想法不可以每天讓這些我們的消費者在使用Meta的這些產品然後整天就在客訴整天就在跟立法院立法委員陳情整天就在媒體上在其他的平台上面去幹繳這個事情所以我是覺得這個很奇怪啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5499.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5526.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
所以我今天無意我也不知道Meta它的準則是什麼我認為公開透明讓大家可檢驗我認為這是一個基本的common sense這也是一個基本的要求這不是什麼對而且也不是針對它全部的社群平台我們中華民國你要落地在這裡我就是要告訴你我們的法規就是這樣子你必須每一個社群平台都可被檢驗我要確保你後面不是共產黨你不是要來消滅中華民國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5528.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5541.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
好不好部長那個委員這個了解那我剛特別強調因為現在美國參與在做聽證會這個META這個他剛剛講這個他對內容審核的機制希望美國政府會強迫他公開那我們會知道怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5543.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5564.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
對啦我的意思是說不用什麼事都等美國啦你也可以先做啦就是我的意思就是叫他公佈審查一個公開透明任何的任何台灣在使用的這些平台你就公佈嘛不只我針對我不會針對一家公司以後哪一家公司都一樣嘛我的要求只是這個樣子嘛好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5575.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5598.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
謝謝 我們請林國成委員謝謝主席 請黃部長請部長還有蔡市長還有蔡市長好 部長早 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5600.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5614.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我想首先我有兩點小建議啦第一個我還是要建議部長就是所屬所有人上台待答詢的時候用語要精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5615.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5639.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
有就有 沒有就沒有不要在那邊模擬兩可這樣會影響委員在整個答詢過程當中會有錯誤的判斷這是我良心的建議第二個我看今天所有提案的14個包括我們行政驗版 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5640.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5656.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
大家所有治安的方向都非常正確了只是現在委員是站在民意機關看到整個基層所需要的東西所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5658.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5673.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
大方向都沒有問題只是一些修法的文字納入這是非常重要所以我要請教部長在這裡既然方向一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5674.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5688.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
只是在整個細節的部分我很冒昧的請教部長到底你們有沒有針對這些委員所提案的東西有沒有做一個綜合歸納跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5690.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5719.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
委員來做溝通文字如何修認為有可能就像我台灣民眾黨提出來就是我們現在行政院版裡面不一樣的就是我們希望扣大納入管理但是行政院只有政府機關所以在這個部分我不曉得部長有沒有責成屬下之人然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5720.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5737.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
有沒有去做研究跟委員說明溝通這樣下一次逐條討論會減少很多毛緩所以部長在這個部分你有沒有做這個動作我們那個有已經跟委員就是拜訪過 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5738.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5765.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那個蠻多委員關於這條文剛剛講的那個我想那委員講的沒錯我們方向一致那至於文字文字的修改現在也在跟我們不同版本有比較也做研析那現在也是再來就會進行一些進一步跟委員溝通那我們會確定這些文字以後在後面再進行二讀三讀是啦部長這個資通安全啊確確實實啊我說實在的是未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5766.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5786.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
是一個非常刻不容緩急迫性的一個華啦因為過去我們想做但是依華無據嘛那現在既然有這個華要修行政院也有版本立法委員也有立法委員的版本所以在這個綜合方向我在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5786.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5814.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
治安安全未來的發展跟監督管理是非常重要那大家也都有共識所以在這個部分我還是要因為我長期也在交通所以我每當看到我們數匯部責任重大但是方向有時候是錯誤的所以我也私底下也建議部長過很多次啦也就是我們現在這個單位看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5816.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5827.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
要人沒人要錢沒有什麼錢但是責任就很重大所以這個部分我希望部長要加強溝通好不好加強溝通逐條討論的時候會減少很多麻煩的這個委員會持續討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5833.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5849.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
好那另外因為我們大家都知道啦數位部有些人就認為這個沒有什麼重要性但是我認為是非常重要因為資安的發展也是你們要來資安的管理也是你們要來可是現在問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5850.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5863.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
科技日新月異的情況之下我們數位部就非常重要所以在這裡啊我記得我在三個月以前也就是民間的馬街醫院的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5866.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5881.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我要請問署長我已經執行三個月以前已經執行了你們針對這個醫院一連串前幾天還是有一個醫院我就感覺到很奇怪他們在竊取所有資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5881.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5905.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
完完全全是針對醫院有階段性喔有階段性那這些就是有計畫性的供給嘛所以我不曉得三個月以前我已經提出來我不曉得蔡署長你這裡針對所有的醫院包括馬街醫院你們做什麼處置跟做什麼做法請蔡署長回答好來署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5906.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5926.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
是 我想謝謝委員剛剛的寶貴的一個提醒跟建議那至於對這個醫院方面的相關的這個治安的保護部分那第一線是在衛護部這邊他們也做一些相關的報告你不要去再推那個蔡署長我要的是你這三個月有做什麼措施緩緩嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5927.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5939.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
是是謝謝委員那在治安署這部分目前我們除了在這個聯防上面的這樣這個機制協助衛護部之外那另外我們在今年的相關的這個這個資訊服務團就治安服務團裡面我們有20個單位其中有一個10個單位是醫療的這個體系來做相關的輔導跟服務的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5947.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5972.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
你不要跟我說那麼多啦你如果要書面報告你私底下再提供給我我要的時候你做什麼事你說那麼多是要幹什麼第一個我問你嘛你知不知道這個被確認以後這個有一些新藥品直接找病人去兜售你有沒有去掌握這些資訊我要的是這些你們到底有沒有這些像馬這醫院1600筆的資料1600萬筆喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5977.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6002.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那這些病患都有這些廠商去兜售藥 你有沒有掌控還有另外一個 你有沒有告訴所有這些醫院的人要告知我們所有的病患 我的資料被確有沒有去做防範都是說 有人在給你做什麼其他的話 你要小心有沒有做這些動作 我要的是你這些嘛 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6003.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6027.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
跟委員報告剛剛提到的這邊就是衛護部是醫院的目的主管機關所以剛剛委員這邊提到的你有沒有督促他們做嘛是是是有沒有嘛我都有跟衛護部這邊的資訊處這邊理事長這邊充分的請他這邊去好啦我問第一題你就這樣了來保長來保長我跟你講其實像這種東西就是亡羊補牢的動作要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6028.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6043.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
既然被侵犯了以後那我要如何去建立建立治安的SOP這很重要啊你既然被盜的時候被破的時候那當然你要告知對方啊就舉例 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6044.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6069.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
黃部長 你的資料已經那個了所以你以後要小心這個部分那我們要怎麼樣去亡羊補牢你要有SOP啦 保證我們說實在的 我知道你們人很少但是最起碼的保護措施要做嘛所以這 我要說保證 我是給你一個建議啦好 另外一個 另外一個問題不是只有醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6071.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6086.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
剛剛蔡副院長已經講了包括私人最近大家比較夯的就是關稅開始的時候也就是航運這幾天也是被那個駭客攻擊喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6088.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6102.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
所以 部長 請你來答啦 蔡署長都給我答的 我沒什麼鬆開啦你知道 針對問題答覆 我已經跟你講過了所以如果你以後要這樣答覆 我坦白跟你講 你就書面報告給我 我就不問對不對 來 署長 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6110.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6117.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
就是航運現在也是被盜如何處理這幾天而已喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6119.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6142.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
好啦我跟你講啦就是這個這個有幾家現在就是醫院到完以後他現在在到航運公司的資料他們做這個我不曉得要做什麼可是最起碼任何一個犯罪行為我想法務部或什麼他們就是犯罪一定有他的目的嘛啊不然他做什麼犯罪動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6143.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6167.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所以說委員為什麼治安法在這裡非常重要是很重要因為擴大我們去集合這些單位所以目前因為這些單位我們現在那個就是對這個剛剛講這個是交通部下面的一個航港局的那個工作我們做治安法我們同時都可以去集合我跟妳講喔一向妳對妳的業務我都非常支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6167.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6181.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
但是我對於我們數位部所有的在答覆我是極度不滿也就是推山倒市沒錯他是航港局管他是航運公司管可是最起碼你要給他資訊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6182.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6201.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
不是 這不是你監督了一部分啊我已經發現問題我告訴你這件事情要如何防範趕快未已籌謀亡羊補牢 防範措施這些動作都要做欸我今天還沒有跟你談說這個如何去做補救的欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6201.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6220.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
如何去做什麼求產欸因為今天我們也有這種資訊保安這等等所以我還是希望部長真的啊要加油啦沒有指責的意思但是最起碼既然要修華一事到位一事把它修為更為完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6220.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6247.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這是非常重要所以我剛才一開始就給你建議的收集所有資料各委員提出來的不足的部分我們接受然後有所困難的加以解說這樣主角討論才不會浪費時間這個法下來也會更完整更完善達到我們真正定定法律其目的部長所以這點我還是給你一個建議好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6256.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6258.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
謝謝我們請何欣淳委員謝謝趙偉許趙偉我們是不是請這個黃部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6275.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6294.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
部長好 那同樣我們也在關心數位發展部有關今天這個資安法要修法那我先關心的有兩件事第一件事我想即時新聞大家部長應該有注意到這個面對數位的威脅那美國的這個聯邦政府國務院現在打算改 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6294.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6313.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
改變他的組織啦 改造他的組織啦所以他的數位治理呢將要設一個新興威脅住親專設AI還有網路安全的事務啦那包括南韓也在動員國家的一個這個網路的防禦力量那所以我也知道呢這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6316.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6335.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們賴總統他也在這個最近呢一直以來在宣示對於這個資安國家隊的一個組成還有呢對於台灣的資安的風險我們如何的來提升這個不是只有在政府單位包括民間產業面那怎麼去強化社會的一個資安防禦韌性還有呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6342.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6366.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
資安的產業的生態系要能夠的健全那如何建築新興科技的防禦技術等等我想這些都是我們數位發展部國人對你們的重大的期許包括總統跟行政院對數位發展部也有很多的任務交付那以賴總統他有提出這個因應關威脅等等包括防 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6366.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6374.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
防止網路攻擊強化資安等等剛剛其他委員很關心這個事情那我們速發部目前的行動檢要重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6376.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6405.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那個就像委員這邊簡報講我們大概就是這個有三個方向目標正在做嘛一個就是當然就資安法是一個最基礎我們希望能夠很快通過之後再來就是說怎麼樣強化這個落實這個資安法的執行包括全社會防禦任性還有我們要讓我們帶我們資安產業能夠在這過程中讓我們資安產業能夠成長甚至部長我想以剛剛其他委員的發言跟我們班長級委員的發言大家對資安法的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6406.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6428.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
都支持但是呢法修過的時候真正重要讓國人有感的是什麼是落實你剛剛講到重點如何落實我們如何強化資安維護國安那強化資安公私協力如何打擊詐騙安我們國家的安全也要安人民國人的信心跟他的財產安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6429.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6455.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
所以這一部分如何落實最重要嘛對不對我就舉一個例子以現在我們一般國人最有感的是什麼我們連LINE的詐騙我們都不知道該怎麼辦我們詐騙手法不斷的變形更新現在最近將近以媒體我看到的數字包括我在基層走訪連我自己身邊的親人也一樣都是透過LINE群組 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6457.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6479.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
八成以上LINE的帳號被盜變成了詐騙集團的工具那所以LINE盜用三大陷阱帳號釣魚小朋友參加繪圖繪畫比賽你可不可以幫忙按一下投一票嗎我們這個社區參加這個計畫的評比你可不可以幫我們按個讚然後幫我們怎麼樣怎麼樣這是一個帳號釣魚第二個電話號碼盜用 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6485.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6500.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
盜用的這個電話號碼跟簡訊的認證碼那事實上不是他第三個手法電腦版的盜用要你去掃那個假的QR code那這些都是很新的詐騙手法而且是現在正在進行中 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6503.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6520.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
現在正在進行中包括我們的政府官員包括我聽說連我們之前的這個中央政府的政務委員他可能他的帳號都被盜用還可以跟你LINE一下說好久不見你要是聽到有人LINE給你說好久不見接下來可能說他家發生什麼事要借錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6522.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6541.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
LINE的帳號被盜用那我要告訴你現在LINE的帳號被盜用之後呢民眾報警也沒用欸只能等為什麼我就要請部長幫幫忙你又跟我說這是警政署的事跟我沒有關係警政署告訴我們這八成以上的這個整個LINE的帳號被盜的一個詐騙型態 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6543.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6554.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
LINE平台的配合態度消極我用實際的案例有一個來跟我陳情的他的LINE帳號被盜第一個他找不到真人客服 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6555.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6573.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
第二個呢 他傳了這個LINE的官方的問題反應表通報了但是很抱歉客服只在24小時你回覆收到收到了之後呢 很抱歉你可能還要再等個三天五天一個禮拜等到LINE到底能不能給你處理這個假帳號的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6577.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6600.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
部長我可不可以請你啊可不可以再跟這個平台聊聊天喝咖啡聊一下好不好可不可以讓他們的態度積極一點然後呢讓國人有感我已經被詐騙了我被這個LINE的假帳號詐騙我都已經很不準了而且我還心急如焚啊我去報警也沒用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6602.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6626.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我去報警也沒用啊報告委員 我們的確這是一個問題我們也跟警政署有討論那我們也正在積極跟NINE溝通那這個是不是可以請副財屬說明一下來 請說是 謝謝委員關心這個議題那這個議題我想我們也很關心昨天晚上跟日本的NINE公司開會開到晚上7點多那這個檢警調都有參加那委員關心的客戶問題NINE也嘗試在決定現在從一個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6629.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6645.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
100筆提升到200筆的處理的然後釣業的這個流程也是在優化當中所以我們會定期開會來協助民眾解決這個問題拜託啦 跟平台多溝通啦處理的案件量可以再更有效率而且再更簡化優化他的流程啦不然這樣子讓我們的國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6650.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6669.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
等等等到第一個報警也沒用第二個他等三天五天等一個禮拜他的這個時間差可能他的LINE的假帳號還不斷的在詐騙其他國人那這個東西事情就像滾雪球般的越滾越大那被詐騙的金額就越來越多你知道嗎所以剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6670.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6677.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
其他委員在關心不是只有我們國人一般人這樣被詐騙我們現在更擔憂的是什麼很多的國際型的駭客組織鎖定台灣在做網路攻擊剛剛有講到醫療體系很多家的醫院也有很多家的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6692.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6706.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
公司企業那這個已經是有系統性的在攻擊在勒索或者是在其他的這個我們的各自的外洩變成是這個不同的應用方式而且這個是違法的應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6707.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6734.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那這個我覺得在源頭如果說在治安的部分我們速發部沒有提供資源能夠積極的去協助這些醫療院所或是協助這些產業企業那後端就衍生出很多的一個違法的應用那傷及到我們國人的權利跟他可能未來會被詐騙的可能性就會提高部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6735.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6758.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
所以呢你剛剛其他委員問你都沒有回答那這麼多家的醫療院所被勒索被攻擊那我們做了什麼那第二個那有些產業企業界我們現在法律規定上市櫃公司要有資安長那如果他不是上市櫃公司的話他被勒索他被這個攻擊那又該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6759.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6779.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那個報告委員我們遇到這種事情第一時間我們都有請治安院去協助所以事實上是有進去協助那當然就是說未來我覺得更重要是從源頭就是說希望將來我們有更多的因為法規依據我們可以對這些這個重要的這個不管是醫院或是這些公司做治安的演練跟集合確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6780.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6795.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
不會有這樣的一個漏洞,那這才是一個最主要的所以我想,治安法的修法對我們未來整個國家治安防護讓我們有權利去要求研練跟執行,之後還有治安事件的通報等等等要整個大家一起公私協力把這個做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6796.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6809.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我具體的要求部長啦我們速發部可不可以在兩個禮拜之內針對這種系統性的不管是醫療體系的供給或者是我們的產業公司行號的這個供給 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6811.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6837.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我們除了接收到這個主管機關的一個通報第一個通報的機制要優化要有效率要快速第二個通報之後你們不管是我們訴發部的團隊或者是治安院的人你要給我們一個具體的一個簡化的流程還有你們提供的資源怎麼去做有具體的做法你這個要先公開透明讓國人知道讓產業界知道讓醫療系統知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6841.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6859.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
臺灣知道說原來我們政府是真的有系統性有步驟性而且是有方法有技術有資源的在支援他們啦好不好兩個禮拜內我也希望看得到這個具體的一個那個機制我要的是機制好不好好謝謝謝謝何欣存委員先有請許智傑召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6876.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6902.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
謝謝主席 我們再請部長好 主委好 部長 辛苦齁騎一載啊 比較累齁不過齁 那個治安大家都很重視的我記得事務發布它你們有一個就是T-RollT-Roll就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6904.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6923.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
很多的單位很容易被駭客入侵所以你們自己就做一個政府骨幹的網絡希望可以在這個是一個安靜的安全的環境裡面就避免被其他單位駭客來侵入所以這個部分目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6924.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6950.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我看你們的資料就是47個A機關現在已經除了三個行政院、立法院、教育部、國教院認為他們沒有這個必要那其他的44個都建制完成那這個部分不知道書發部現在的立場就是說其他三個到底是不是需要是不是應該47個一起還是目前這樣子已經算是初步完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6950.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6979.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
就是報告委員就是我們在去年就完成44個那今年的重點應該是很多是在地方政府等等就是這些公務機關都能夠納入就是更多機關參與T-Load那這個T-Load的話應該在至少幾個我們所謂的紫霞市應該是在今年會納入那至於這三個機關當初他們說因為沒有業務需要而沒有納入這一塊是不是請那個王市長再說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6981.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7009.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
因為他們當初沒有需求但是如果說之後他們有需求的話我們會全力的協助他們來一起來包括我們立法院包括行政院都認為他們很安全喔如果他們有被入侵誰負責主要是因為他們沒有做跨機關的資料傳輸這一塊因為TLO本身它防護就是如果你有做跨機關資料傳輸的話在傳輸當中它會做一個安全的防護但是如果沒有做跨機關傳輸資料的需求的話它就不需要借接這個TLOOK 那 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7010.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7015.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
六個縣市政府高雄市跟台北市還在建制其他其他直轄市來 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7020.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7042.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
其他直達室的話幾乎都有在導入當中而且我們會包括我們的T-LORD它會連接到T-LORD它有一個安空的伺服器這個我們都是免費的去提供給縣市來使用然後我們也會有輔導團所以現在依據115年明年對不對可以全部完成嗎可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7044.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7066.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那這個如果都完成之後是不是在政府機關自己資料的傳輸之外駭客要入侵的機會就沒有報委員因為這個是在做資料傳輸的時候駭客沒辦法入侵但是機關本身自己他還是要有一些防護措施讓駭客不會從其他的管道去侵入到他的這個系統裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7067.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7096.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
所以就是說反正這個踢肉啦就是說你們將來政府跟政府之間比如說你可以用在政府之間那有沒有可能像我們現在看到的很多醫院啦很多都已經被駭客入侵的這一些是不是有機會再把他們包括進來那個應該是可以是 有一些是那個比較大型的醫院其實如果他要上踢肉的話我們是可以去幫他們做接接的 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7096.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7109.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以這個是不是全部的單位都知道我是覺得這一個如果如你們所設定的就是說我真的這麼好用我真的這麼安全那我就應該更普遍的去用到各機關那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7112.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7130.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
因為我不知道假設你們明年一百一十五年全部可以完成這個沒問題然後完成之後相對的個資保護也好資安也好就可以用踢肉就可以涵蓋台灣大部分的機關的資料傳輸就不會受到駭客的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7131.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7149.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
就是資料傳輸過程中不會受影響但是剛剛那個王市長特別有講就是說我們機關本身的系統那個防護要從另外一個就是機盒跟演練去確認他的安全所以這是跟T-Roll沒有直接關係但是會有T-Roll是有幫助不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7150.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7167.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
整個機關安全還是要從根本化系統去做防護那這個我們會去做只要他是在我們的所謂的政府機關或者是特殊的這個會工機關我們都會去再做進一步集合確認落實治安的防護好沒關係現在就是說我 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7167.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7194.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
之前因為一直在關心這個踢肉的進度啦所以你們如果說可以照進度完成明年可以完成那這個我也希望說鼓勵你們繼續趕快把這個事情先完成好那另外就是說那個剛剛崑哲偉也有問到你們的員額一直都拚不夠那就是現在蘇化部所做的事情通通覺得人手夠了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7194.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7220.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那個報告委員那個我先澄清一點就是說我們現在的那個預算原額是617人現在大概是我們原額真的目前有的人是500也是514多人大概只有大概有八幾%不過還是不夠啦所以我們還在努力的在recruit人 尋找人所以我們當然希望剛剛講有些人尤其是治安的人員我們確實是努力在尋找中 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7220.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7235.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
所以你在看就是第一個我們人員聘用不夠第二個資安署的離職率卻是比一般的公務機關都還要高這有點奇怪就是說你看近五年全國公務人員的離職率是0.79%結果我們資安署的離職率是2.18%高這麼多倍 三倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7243.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7272.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那當然之前有所謂的霸凌事件那現在就是說應該內部署長都已經整理整頓過了嗎會不會再有這種情況這個報告委員就是說我們離職率高有幾個原因一個當然是外面有一些吸引因為他外面給的薪水很高那另外一點就是說因為也是工作比較繁重責任比較就是說責任工作重然後責任大所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7273.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7289.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
確實有些人員是因為這樣而離開不過我們剛剛講就是經過當然也發生過霸凌事件經過處理之後尤其我們現在有新的署長上任之後這個問題正在被解決中所以各方面我想在今年會有很大的進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7290.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7306.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
OK那簡單的說就是你們之間就是同僚之間啦那跟工作的福利之間請部長也特別注意一下因為治安署的理智力的確是太高了所以這個有待檢討好那踢肉的事情也希望你們盡快把它完成好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7320.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7335.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
好 謝謝 我們現在請區務國務委員好 那等一下那個郵號那個質詢網 我們就先休息十分鐘好 謝謝主席 有請黃部長好 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7342.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7364.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
好 徐委員好 部長早部長我想我們這一次修法有特別針對中央跟地方的一個聯防機制的一個修法那我想這是一個很這個很進步的一個象徵那也代表我們過去我們這個地方政府不再只是消極的配合而是應該積極參與我們國家治安防線的意願部長應該認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7369.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7393.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
但是因為我過去我也在縣市政府服務過那我很清楚知道說過去包含我們縣市政府對於治安這一塊他有一定的這個能量但是往下一層我們很多的鄉鎮公所甚至很多我們中央派駐到地方的一些機關分支機構我相信因為治安的能力我們會很擔心啦因為畢竟過去他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7394.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7423.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
對這一塊是比較陌生而且也沒有那麼多的人力可以來支應但是面對我們未來的這個挑戰包含我們現在這個對岸的這個不斷的用這個駭客的一個入侵的方式我想不是只有中央中央的那個聯防機制要落實跟地方的一個串聯的部分更是一個我們實務上很重要的一個挑戰我們不希望出現所謂一個治安的一個破口所以我想未來這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7424.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7444.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
請教部長我們抒發部是不是已經盤點我們地方政府這個治安的量能包含我們這個所屬相關中央單位在我們各分支機構的一個量能請部長說明一下這個我們現在就是跟治安法這個新的修法就是針對中央跟地方的一個能夠強化治安的防護 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7445.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7466.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那當然這裡面會有牽涉到人力的問題跟系統的問題那剛剛那個我們在也說明過我們是因為地方的確在資訊能源不只是資安能源資訊也不足所以希望資訊系統向上集中之後管理上會比較容易那這一部分至於說盤點人力部分署長這邊可以再補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7467.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7491.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
是謝謝委員的關心那我們盤點的人力來講目前所缺的治安人力大概是239人那的確是地方是比較多一點173人那這部分我想也是協助地方積極來增加相關的一些人力那在預算部分來講我們也是盡量如果有一些相關的一些可以來協助地方的一些預算上面的一些身份的補助的話我想我們會盡量來協助地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7492.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7518.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那另外針對這個相關的這些治安的設備部分因為我們也擔心這個地方政府的財力問題那但是這個治安設備如果沒有跟著升級這個達到一定的防護標準恐怕也是形成很大的一個破洞那這部分我們蘇貨部是不是有一個協助的一個機制甚至未來我們怎麼樣定期做一個具體的一個聯防的演練做一個地方跟中央的一個資源串聯的部分是不是有做相關的一個規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7519.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7535.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
很謝謝委員的確是在資安法修法通過之後那我們就可以跟這個地方縣市政府這邊做一些相關的集合還有相關的這些演練聯防等等的這個機制所以我想這個中央跟地方的這個相關資安的防護上面我想會更緊密來合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7537.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7560.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那另外剛剛委員提到的例如說地方在治安的人力上面的確是比較不足那這個部分其實我們在之前也有請各個就是地方成立一個區域的聯防中心像台北台中跟台南還有東部等等的就比較能力強一點的縣市來協助能力比較強的比較弱的一些縣市那整個大家把一個區域的治安聯防的概念把它提升上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7562.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7577.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這點本席還是要請部長這邊能夠防範因為我們也擔心說這個當然我們現在包含我們剛剛召委也大家都在關心我們人力這個缺口的部分那依我們現在看到職場部分本來這個事情是人的位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7578.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7604.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我們要當民間啊一路先預備來做你們這個的工作所以整個在我相信在這個薪資結構甚至一些福利的配套措施上面也必須再強化一下啦沒有好的誘因怎麼會有找到好的人才這部分那另外我想針對這個所謂一個彈性的一個聯訪的一個機制甚至一個共享的一個資安能力的一個機制也必須盡快提出這部分是不是可以在一個月之內順便報告好沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7606.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7624.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
好 部長那另外我想我們另外一個地方的挑戰之後我想我們回到中央那這次修法我們提出了一個所謂的包含治安署可以集合總統府 委員甚至國安會等這個上級機關我想這個當然我們很樂見這樣的一個機制的設計跟實務的運作但是會不會因為這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7631.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7656.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
處理上面我們在整個一個憲政體制的獨立運作還有治安署的這個集合的上面我們是不是有一個更具體的一個做法跟說明這個我想治安法這個很重要就是讓我們能夠對所有的中央的單位能夠做集合不過集合是一種協助啦做演練跟那個那至於說這個運作的細節我請那個治安署再做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7657.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7683.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
是我想謝謝委員這個意見那的確因為治安是一體所以我想因為以往包括這個除了行政院之外的其他四個院跟總統府還有其他的一些單位我們沒有辦法這個在法的這樣的一個授權之下做相關的集合跟協助的工作所以因此才會有一些相關的一些沒有辦法整體來做相關的一些治安的包括情資的分享跟一些聯訪的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7683.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7702.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那宣法之後我想我們就可以把整個除了行政院之外其他四個院跟總統府大家可以就整合在一起那這樣在治安的不管是聯防協助跟情治的分享上面我想就可以更完整的來推動 以上我想國安的問題是我們大家都很關切啦 大家都要注意那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7703.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7725.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
部長那個我們時代雜誌最近有報導AI安全公司針對這個美國的資訊中心發布說中國掌握了多數的AI中心的關鍵零組件的一個供應鏈那如果這樣子蓄意的干擾可能會造成資訊中心無法取得這個附件的原件那造成癱瘓的一個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7726.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7733.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
而且更可能造成所謂的AI模型外洩的高風險攻擊那不然我們是不是有掌握這樣的一個資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7735.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7764.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
就是那個如果說是AI的這個說算力中心或資訊中心那個當然這裡面有很多這個所謂server的component我們原則上是就是不能用大陸的產品那現在我們國內在這方面的不管是我們的這些電腦業者這個方面我們自己還蠻先進的所以我想這一塊我們不會需要中國的component才能做這些的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7765.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7779.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
部長我想我們都肯定這次的治安法的修法方向那也期待我們藉由這樣的一個修法那能夠落實我們從中央到地方完整的一個安全的國外的防範的一個機制這大家作為來打拚 謝謝謝謝我們請有號委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7799.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7802.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好 謝謝二主席 那也請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7809.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7832.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
吳委員好部長好那延續的剛才許多委員有提到就是目前來講在資安的部分以及AI的部分要如何用AI的包括大家的專業來去來去來去對抗AI的這種詐騙那剛好在前兩天在南投也發生一個實事體那我們看到這個圖片 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7834.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7850.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這個AI成為大罷免的一個惡霸的工具那民進黨或者是在南投的霸團他們就是用AI來去生成這個新聞稿就是本席的辦公室的新聞稿還直接做了兩則 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7852.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7871.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
第一則叫做我感謝霸團把我第二階段連署通過但是目前現在他們還在收集這連署書但沒關係反正荒腔走板行徑都競逐難輸第二的話就是說我們支持就是他們就偽造的還變成說支持罷免另外一個選區馬文君委員這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7873.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7898.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那用這樣子的一個深層的新聞稿用GT來去散佈這個假訊息那我想問一下就叫一下部長像這種現在的科技AI的工具它卻成為這樣子運用的一個手段甚至騷擾的手段那在以目前來講在這個委員會中我們來揭露這樣子的一個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7898.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7923.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那就是在南投的這個霸團他們用這樣子的方式來去抹黑來去捏造還來去騷擾攻擊本席跟馬文君委員那像抒發部隊這樣子的事情第一有掌握嗎第二在地方上能掌握嗎第三像這樣子的部分要如何在數位治理上來去做一個政府的角色扮演 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7924.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7948.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
有委員這個AI的確我先從技術面來談這個事情的確AI最近的進展它可以生成各式各樣的不管是文字或者影音或是相片所以以前都是說眼見為真是眼見不見的為真所以這方面是一個最基本的問題那怎麼去判斷跟偵測也是一直是一個大家在從技術面一直在研究的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7949.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7973.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
所以我想這個裡面當然會牽涉到AI所以目前的確有另外一個政府我們部裡面在推動就是在AI的使用方面像AI基本法這個當然還需要再討論不過要從很多面從AI的使用要做一些當然就是鼓勵AI的成長另外要還換它的一些管理上面的問題所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7974.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7999.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
要從這邊去處理那至於說個別的新聞或個別的那個因為這種東西太多了所以我們並沒有特別去追蹤每一個那如果說像類似這種假訊息啊那在當初今天是本就是本席遇到嘛那同樣也是我跟馬文君我也被遇到這樣子的一個捏造的用我們辦公室發新聞稿來去做社群的散佈那在社群的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7999.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8016.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
通報商如何有辦法讓他下架以及說在這個假信息如何來去做一個遏止還包括甚至也要想請教這個調查局還知通安全處處長那像這樣子的一個情況那調查局這邊可以用什麼樣的方式來去啟動調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8018.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8046.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
對 那個這種假訊息的部分我跟委員報告我們有幾個機制一個當然就是說我們有所謂的NGO麥克風這樣一個組織就是說遇到這種訊息可以請他們來驗證以後他們會做公佈那我們自己本身也有網路詐騙通報查詢網這個東西有時候但不見得真的假訊息但是有些跟廣告相關跟類似詐騙的訊息這個可以到我們這邊來通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8047.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8074.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那當然就是這個警政署或是法務部這邊也有不同的機制來處理所謂的假訊息我是不是請好那我們請處長是各位委員好有關這個AI Center的假訊息Deepfake的部分那調查局是有建立一定的檢測的模式那我們也有相關的檢測工具只要這個網路上有相關的這個訊息出現我們經過檢測是 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8076.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8090.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
身為 AI 生成的話那只要有違法譬如說違反懸罷法那我們就會去立案偵辦報請地檢署的那個在六都的地檢署他都有那個 AI 生成的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8091.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8106.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
假訊息的犯罪調查中心我們會去細數偵辦好 謝謝因為他這個也直接在他們的幹部群就直接把這個GPD他們在生成的過程跟證據也都有修在上面那謝謝署長那同樣的說今天來講對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8108.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8131.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這樣子的惡霸包括有時候發現這樣子就是一個詐騙的過程今天他們在向許多人搜尋罷免惡霸攔尾的連署書結果今天的手段上面還就直接用AI的工具來去做偽造還包括偽造委員辦公室的新聞稿將來就有可能偽造成影音跟圖像 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8132.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8153.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那在這裡還是也謝謝剛才部長的解釋跟包括我們調查局這邊的一個說明那也希望說在這個AI的治理過程中當然能夠讓我們的技術或是防治上更為提升那另外本期在這裡也再次也提到這個資安長的這個制度目前的話都是由這個副首長來去做接任或是適當人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8154.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8183.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
但是本席還是因為時間有限那請就是部內這邊提供一下目前各機關在這個擔任這個資安長是副首長的這個比例跟執行率那以及說是委外或是有適當人員的這個執行率大約比例是多少以及他的對於這個包括資安的專業掌握程度還是多少那這個比例希望能夠提供給本席辦公室因為本席在這裡還是要特別的去呼籲強調一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8184.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8210.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那當然說以目前先行法規上各機關來講必須要設置這個資安長的部分在資安法第11條但是如果說像許多的機關他們的資安長本身對於資安就沒有非常了解甚至概念上也不夠熟悉那當這個資安長的話是不是能夠有效的讓機關內的這個資訊安全能夠去做一個了解甚至處理甚至平行的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8212.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8240.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
當然說很多事情還是要回到速發部去請教那只是說這樣子的一個制度上是希望治安長不是虛設的反而是實際上能夠有功能那在國外的話其實在業界的治安長他們的制度其實相對來講幾乎都會有資訊背景或是一定時數的訓練那我是希望說在目前國內的現行制度大概依法規治安法第11條是必須要設置那如何能夠真正的強化在每一個機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8241.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8261.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
還有的這個專業我相信還是要麻煩部長不過這個委員簡單的說明一下就是因為那個我們說因為治安長要做跨單位的協調他一定要足夠的所有的管理的權力所以才會使用才會目前很多是由副首長來擔任那當然副首長在裡面我們會有很多的訓練或是會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8262.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8284.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
當然也會有幕僚單位來提供協助所以目前這樣一個機制目前還好就是說在我們的這個重點還是在管理所以管理那個管理的人一定要有這樣的power所以我想重點是就是要有足夠的權力的人去當任這個治安長這個技術反而是比較容易解決因為可以有幕僚跟相關的這個訓練可以再補強這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8286.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8297.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
一些問題我們之後再來探討因為就是權力之間的部會業務的連結歸連結但是專業跟本身都有問題第一時間的掌握那我覺得也是相對重要謝謝現在休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8323.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8323.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
鞭筍 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8347.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8347.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8370.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8372.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這裏有個大廈,這裏有個餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8397.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8397.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8423.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8424.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
這裏是一間餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8932.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8961.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
好 現在開始開會 我們請林俊憲委員好 感謝主席 同時邀請我們速發部黃部長請部長部長好 部長好部長 我根據你們的資通安全網路月報就三月份啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8962.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8973.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我們政府機關的聯防情資有七萬五千多件就是大概嘗試要攻擊我們網路的七萬多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8975.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9001.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
跟去年同期比較每個月都超過兩成的成長也就是說我們受到網路攻擊的嚴重度可以說是逐月都提升了那攻擊裡面第一名是入侵類的攻擊37%那第二類是資訊的收集那第三就是嘗試要突破例如進入沒有授權的主機 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9003.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9015.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我看我們很多單位都有提供類似的報告我看國安局那國安局的報告說我們在2024年去年平均一天受到網路的攻擊大概有240萬次 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9017.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9031.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那2023年一天平均是120萬等於成長百分之百增加一倍這是國安局的報告2023年一天120萬次去年2024年一天變為240萬次那另外國安團隊就是對於駭客案件就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9044.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9052.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
可能是被攻破的有900多件比2023年的752件也成長大概兩成所以可見我們現在面對的狀況是越來越嚴厲那其中攻擊我們什麼呢第一個來自中國的攻擊也佔80% |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9068.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9078.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
主要供給我們都是來自中國的駭客那供給我們主要都是一些基礎設施通訊傳播業、交通及國防這是最嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9080.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9097.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
另外我再看一個微軟的報告幾乎每一份報告都是同樣的結論同樣的趨勢就是台灣受到攻擊的次數還有嚴密的嚴重度都越來越高然後主要都是來自中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9098.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9115.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
像微軟的報告說 中國高度鎖定了台灣而且他有特別提到 微軟說是以台灣的企業成為中國的高優先攻擊目標再來就是情報收集 國安機構等等這個蠻符合部長的報告裡面部長你說 現在我們的基礎設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9125.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9148.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
都會受到攻擊那中國不只攻擊台灣中國也攻擊其他國家例如關島中國為什麼攻擊關島很可能就是要癱瘓住在關島的美軍如果萬一台海有事他可以癱瘓關島的美國駐軍來阻止美方來援助台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9150.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9173.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這個大概在彭博社國際媒體上也都有報也都有報導當然再來請教部長就是我們現在的國安所謂的定義的基礎關鍵基礎設施是不是大概有我看有8加1第一個就交通再來醫療水資源再來政府機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9174.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9188.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
銀行金融業高科技園區能源產業通訊傳播現在最近又加上一個糧食所以大概有九大的關鍵基礎設施那其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9190.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9205.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們現在要希望更納入民間的相關機關企業來否則以目前的法令政府是沒有權利去對民間的企業做治安集合是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9206.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9233.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
對就是所以這個治安法需要一個很重要就是我們納入所謂的特殊公務機關那這個就包括這個就可以由各目的事業主管機關去定義哪些是他們認為重要比如說是supplier他是提供設備的人或者是說一些執行一些服務的機關也都的那個一門包括民間公司也可以被納入特殊非公務機關來進行查核一樣的治安的檢測跟查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9235.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9261.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那部長你知不知道根據在暗網就是網路上一些暗網做一些非法教育買賣的地方暗網外一些的網站公佈資料台灣大概有八個受害者包括亞洲大學部長知道這是吧 亞洲大學醫院馬街另外有一個我看那個中文名稱英文名稱翻過來好像是華城電機 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9263.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9287.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
再來是張機 張化經濟學院還有柯定 喬山甚至最近在中壢有一個長盛這個應該是也是個醫院也受到攻擊而且攻擊以後他們的肉被人拿走的個資甚至在暗網上也有在賣布董知道吧有看到報告那我看這個狀況會有越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9290.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9314.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
對 所以我才講說因為我們必須強化我們治安的防護才會說我們在這個時候必須馬上要修改我們的治安法讓我們能夠去對這些關鍵技術設施做做集合跟治安的演練來確認他們的治安防護是能夠到位但是過去啦 過去就是說政府我們對於自己公務機關的網路攻擊大概都有注意也有專業的一個報告統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9316.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9344.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
但是對關鍵基礎設施尤其一些民間企業卻很少有像我剛練給你聽的現在關鍵基礎設施越來越多因為8加1有9項那你如果沒有這個修法的速度要快我們就可以整體把重要的一些民間企業也納進來甚至做一些資訊安全的輔導 稽查等等相關的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9345.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9371.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那部長你的看法呢我們現在在治安法的修法裡面還有一個就是說遇到治安事件他們要立即通報所以我們會更掌握清楚掌握那個目前的這個治安的剛剛講攻擊的事件的發生讓我們可以很快的通報各個單位能夠其實馬上加強防護所以這些新的治安法讓每個機關他負責他不但是要被接而且他負責通報像我就用民間統計的 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9372.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9384.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
因為政府沒有在統計關鍵基礎設施受攻擊的狀況一般 現在但民間有統計過啦我用民間統計的給你看啦科學園區啊被拿到外洩21萬筆啦政府機關有4萬筆醫院有1萬3千筆啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9387.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9416.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那關鍵基礎設施哪些設施外洩比例最高第一個是通訊傳播業第二個是醫院第三是政府機關我認為這個法令修訂以後一個比較重要的就是你要讓這些民間企業的員工也要了解你的工作你所在的這家企業是屬於關鍵基礎設施的所以他本身也要有治安意識我們甚至可以輔導這些企業你必須對他的相關那個從業人員要有一定的一種教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9423.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9438.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
另外就是禁用中國製造的一些相關的電子產品我們目前法律是沒有明確規範只有行政命令那希望在這裡面也把它提升到法律的位階就是從中國製作跟資訊安全有相關的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9441.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9463.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
一定要我們把它法制化 把它提高為法律因為國人親自看到的大概就是美國2022年佩洛西當時美國眾議院議長到台灣來當時中國駭客侵入了超商還有台鐵的電子看板我想讓國人應該清楚可以看到了其實我們的治安防護其實還是必須要有很大的一個加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9464.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9472.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
好 我們希望在相關的修法 部長應該多跟立委們來進行相關的溝通 好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝 我們請林林澤委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9496.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9499.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
好 謝謝主席有請我們事務部黃部長請部長黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9508.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9527.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
你從去年的 你是五月份嘛 520之後跟新政府團隊來入閣的請教一下這幾年有什麼變化是不是新舊部長有什麼不同的一個看法首先我們在去年預算中心針對112年你們數位部針對以來抽測 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9533.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9549.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
抽測了我們大概15到24個公務機關就來協助也是來了解現在一般的公務的機關它到底治安的品質如何所以在112年的時候主要檢測的方向分成技術檢測跟實地檢測那這時候在檢測的過程其中第一項技術檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9556.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9569.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
有15個機關其中有13個機關它連基本的未落實電腦安全的更新update都沒做這是當年這是其中一個就檢測的一個項目所以比例高達86%缺失的機關第二個實地檢測也針對24個公務機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9578.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9591.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
其中有17個也出現了治安上面的一個漏洞所以缺失率達到70%這個是立法院的你們提供給立法院112年的資料不是我個人收集的然後我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9592.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9615.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
再請教113年也結束了請教113年呢狀況如何呢因為通常這種KPI每一年比較數據管理是你比較容易了解我也比較清楚當然這有兩個部分對於舊的問題如何改善要去追蹤譬如說這些被檢查過的公務機關有問題了不能擺明還要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9615.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9630.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
review看能不能改善這個部分是一個部分我跟你們調資料你們有說持續去追蹤那我們再問113年對於新的一些公務機關在展開第二波因為公務機關這麼多112年只有15個嘛你們新的機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9634.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9647.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
有沒有去做那到底是什麼狀況部長你說一下對於新的機關做了幾個他的新的技術檢測跟實力檢測的比例缺失比例如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9648.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9671.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
跟委員報告就是剛剛委員所關心的這個集合結果那113年我們也是一樣也是40個的這個政府機關坐實地的這個集合那集合的情況就如委員這邊所提到的我們有一些包括在這個整個技術上面的一些檢測跟相關的一些方面我們發現是有些提升那有些缺點的確是有些要再改進的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9673.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9693.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
蘇長請問一下我們這邊列的這你給我的嘛三項明顯進步事項跟顯著提升有兩項那是他比較基礎是什麼因為提升嘛就表示他原本在這裡提升了你是針對於112年這些檢查過的公務機關再去了解他有明顯的進步是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9693.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9705.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
跟委員報告我們並沒有相同 我們並不是在做比較我們是針對不同的機關做集合所以113年所集合單位並不是112年的單位那你們113年不同的機關你們有去集合幾個機關40個40個機關嘛4個機關那技術檢測的缺失率大概是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9720.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9748.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
因為技術的檢測其實就是有一些需要再改善的地方啦就是剛剛委員所提到的我們包括說像我們對這個網易啦網路啦資料庫啦還有一些核心的系統等等的我們都要做一些檢測那每個機關我們檢測完之後就會提供他檢測的一些相關缺失的地方好啦那個部長署長我覺得好有點奇怪了何必呢都有進步嘛就缺失率現在一展現出來今年只有32%哇 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9750.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9769.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
大家給你掌聲啊有這麼辛苦嗎我跟你講你這樣的等於說讓一件事情任何人要從KPI數據上面去比較你把它複雜化你把它倒過來你做數據的人做數位的人把它倒過來變一些形容詞來去講因為有什麼有進步有提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9770.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9786.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我就覺得我是希望我就不想耽誤這時間在這裡我希望113年能夠具體化一個數據出來是好是壞你們自己知道也大家都知道逐步改善就好了好不好部長能不能把它一致化再提供數字給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9787.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9811.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好的 第二個部長這個資安的人力荒是讓你們成立一個比較新成立的一個機關要搶人第二個呢你們又要非常專業的人其實沒有很容易啦我們都知道但是你們在訂的相關的一些法規就像今天又要修法嘛那修完的法你們訂的一些規則就是要落實嘛不然訂一些法是不是給民眾看的所以我們自己要先要來落實嘛相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9812.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9831.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
一些機關他必須要有專職的治安人力這是你們的一個規定而且也是你們的業管範圍但我們看得到一樣112年112年中央對於應有的你們法令規定的還缺六十六人占整個中央機關應有的專職治安人員大概缺8.4%看起來不到10%地方比較嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9839.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9867.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
地方確認23.1%這是112年的數據那接下來我們又跟應該是治安署吧說那113年呢113年我覺得要進步嘛就一樣你給我看一個數據減少了對不對優化了問題收斂了大家會給你肯定嘛數據就會說話就問你們你知道怎麼說嗎不知道部長知不知道你們跟我們回答說113年的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9868.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9878.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
還在填報作業中14年的4月你們一個講究效率的你跟我講還在填報我覺得好奇怪你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9880.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9905.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
一個樓盤一個坑到底多少人你一個時間點去年的12月31號截止還有人就有人沒人就沒有人嘛上個月補的不算怎麼會統計不出來就是所以跟剛剛一樣拜託一下好不好就是說這一定統計出來的這個部分你要看我也要看大家治安的一個各單位從中央到地方有沒有做好這個我也希望部長去注意一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9906.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9928.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
再來就是既然缺人缺這麼多我們看到左下角這個我們直區就提報現在這個針對一一三年公務人員有新開缺高考三級就特別之通安全的內科也開缺了那有各地報缺因為我們看到報缺的數額也非常低 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9929.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9955.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
部長你們回答就一句話是不是大家到底中央地方在不在乎資安專業人力這個事情你的感覺報告委員我們這個資安人員的任用有幾個管道一個當然就是從所謂轉職系就是說從既有的公務人員在做訓練希望他們轉成資安人員那這個大概會原來預定目標是1000人那目前已經訓練了兩三百人那預計今年至少會有450個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9956.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9980.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那當然就是因為這樣關係所以直接從高考進來目前各地方各個單位提報人是比較少不過我們會加強宣傳也就是說這個東西這個這種新的管道應該也是一個很好的一個管道來對我們資安能力的方這個資安能力方能夠有補助所以這個我們會加強宣導然後希望也許未來在這方面的這個高考這個資安通安全類科的 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9981.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10006.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
的職缺能夠多一點不過我們現在還是主要是靠內部的所謂的資安人員的這個轉職系的一些訓練目前是以這個方式在進行好 部長 署長我語重心長因為所謂資安嘛就從另外一個角度影響資安的人跟物還有softwareAI它的一個進步的速度是用飛的我感覺你們在處理這些事情每一年我在問同樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10007.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10024.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我不敢這樣講說你們是用爬的你們就是正常在走我都不知道這個仗要怎麼打我是希望說能做的中央地方積極做因為你們要面對一個挑戰的變化是那種未來你們要把精力花在這裡最後剛剛我們好幾位委員也特別說過 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10026.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10040.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
上次跟你見面 我也問你嘛你說因為私人的企業因為上次說有很多遭到了駭客入侵把資料都竊走了那我今天特別講說因為就是我們中壢中壢長盛醫院遭害8萬病例外洩那他要錢嘛反正他現在駭客也好像上網 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10049.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10069.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
按網去賣那真的假的我們不清楚我是覺得你們要去協助像你看從馬街醫院張金醫院甚至亞太附屬醫院到現在長盛醫院有地方的這個醫學級教學醫院教學中心也有地方級的一個區域或者地區醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10071.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10098.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我是覺得你們不能夠說這是私人的問題你們要有一個真的要協助的機制你上次也答應我說你們要研究要怎麼樣去協助你不是管理他但是我有一套來協助就好像說有公司被詐騙那警察機關說我沒有管這家公司你不要這樣問我回答嘛他趕快弄個SOP 你想方設法怎麼樣阻止 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10099.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10116.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
讓你受傷受到最少因為這種東西蠻可怕的有一些私人的那些企業買賣的甚至機票的他大概就是個資外洩已經很頭痛了這個東西個人病例你知道嗎如果我能夠沒有經過允許拿到個人病例那是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10117.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10135.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
更嚴重的犯罪的一個行為可是你這樣包括了個人的一個病例不是個資之外都被賣所以我是建議你在你們資安責任等級分級的一個表中分級表中我們的這個所謂教學級的醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10138.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10166.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這個部分教學級的醫院是分成特A級嗎是不是A級A級是不是教學中心是特A級A級單位因為A級主要是公立嘛公立的拜託這私立的是什麼意思你防公立的哇幾萬筆因為是很重要的醫療那私立的這你們特A級不能不管不能不管報告委員我們會跟衛護部合作把這個一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10167.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10170.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我希望你們對醫院這件事情跑起來好不好不要慢慢走 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10195.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10208.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
謝謝 我們請黃建豪委員好 謝謝主席 主席我們請數位部黃部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10216.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10238.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
部長好部長我想今天我們討論的是這個資通安全管理法修法的問題那我想這個有一個條文我想跟這個部長來討論一下我想除了院版之外有些委員提出的版本我想提出來給大家參考包含說國務卿委員提的這個版本裡面的13條公務機關不得採購下載安裝或使用危害國家資通安全產品把它入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10240.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10260.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這個是本來就從你們這個13條從數位部訂定的這個各機關對危害國家自動安全產品限制使用原則而來我想這13條的來源在這邊甚至從你們這個數位部訂定的這個規範只是因為現階段我想這現行對於這相關的特定廠商的特定品牌有這個限制是用所謂的法規命令 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10261.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10280.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
那是不是有機會把它提升到這個母法的程式那詳細的這個規定我再把它定於執法當中會不會比較妥適比如說今年二月的時候我想這個我們卓院長有提到說宣布這公共機關全面禁用Deep-Seek這個AI來確保我們的國家自動安全但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10281.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10309.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
之所以要禁用公共機關禁用Deep Seek的原因就是因為他們可能有擔心說這個很多資料會上傳給中共讓他們掌握到我們內部的資訊那如果既然是這樣子那有這樣子的事情發生那是不是應該把我剛剛提到的以剛剛盧君委員那13條應該把它訂到法律的位階跟層次而不是只是純單純用這個命令來做你院本來有沒有辦法採納這個這樣的做法報告委員本來那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10310.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10337.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我們就是把原來的行政命令變成立法 放在法就是危害國家資產安全產品至於說它的定義因為這個產品的變化跟那個非常快我們沒辦法給到一個非常清楚的定義因為我們只能從審查跟檢驗跟最後的通報去做隨時的update如果一個產品而且現在有可能是稀產地也有可能這公司原來不屬於中國公司後來賣給中國公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10337.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10358.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
中國公司有太多可能變化所以沒有辦法定的很清楚說什麼樣叫不行但是我們是會隨時的去審查跟那個通報機制就是發現這個產品有問題我們馬上就通報然後就可以再由這個將根據這個治安法來禁用這些這些設備或產品部長當然就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10359.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10376.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
產品不斷推陳出新啦所以是不是隨時要變動隨時更新那個清單那當然是用授權的那我現在要確認說像剛剛我提到這個第43我們格魯遜維提的第43條他把這個公共機關不得採購下載安裝或使用危害國家自動安全產品的這個文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10377.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10402.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
明文的這個條文放進母法裡面原版現在有沒有放進去嗎 放了沒對 報告委員就是說基本上我們care是使用的因為採購採購這個東西就像講因為你買了一個公司原來這個公司不屬於中國公司就是說不能只看採購的剛公司因為公司有可能會就是中資會入國所以我說採購最主要是後面的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10402.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10416.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以只要使用我們先定義我們先有個機制來定義什麼叫做來找出危害國家製造產品的是有哪些然後再去限制它的使用定義是執法啊對我來說對應該定義是後面的事情嘛那我現在講的說 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10417.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10436.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
你們的條文裡面就是真正的院版條文最後出來了因為現在還在討論嘛那只是說院版的條文裡面會不會有相關的這個把它明文假設你說好採購沒有那下載安裝使用咧我們是使用跟下載跟安裝但是採購沒有在上面好那這樣有共識啦這樣OK院版有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10437.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10454.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
原版原版要使用有使用而已那下載安裝呢你要使用前提要下載安裝啊你要前面就先阻止啦因為原版有使用下載跟那比如說比如這樣講以Deep-Seek為例我們就舉具體案例Deep-Seek你當然沒有採購它嘛但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10455.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10478.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我們的就是公務機關不得使用也不得下載嘛那我就說你就是應該把這個所謂下載跟使用下載跟安裝本身就先放在魔法裡面那當後續誰是屬於這樣子的案例那個是當然你們隨時去滾動檢討啦case by case對啊好不好這個部分我提醒一下應該把它放到這個條文裡面要增加就是安裝跟下載這個部分再來提到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10480.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10493.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
現行的條文裡面院版裡面的條文裡面有講到說第四條提升自動安全政府要提供資源整合民間及產業力量提升全民的自動安全意識所以這邊的重點在提升全民之安不是針對產業而已因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10495.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10512.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
如果按照現行法令我們看起來很像其實相關的法律都在從這個產業面來出手產業面在關注產業面但是對於真正的全民我們剛剛提到全民的定義我們看這個數據你看詐騙的部分各自大約24%然後購物詐騙15% 企業冒名13%還有我們國內法卡銀行詐欺的通報金額也是逐年在 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10518.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10529.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
整體比例是上升的狀況就比如說全民對於治安的這個意識好像不太足夠那當然你們把母法裡面訂的這一條說要主動來全民可是你從真正在執行面上 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10530.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10551.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
比較像是從這個企業 從產業的角度在你們執行的時候但問題是從這個教育 國中小高中教育等等的部分好像在現行的條文裡面並沒有看到這方面的作為那我不知道數位部隊這事情怎麼處理因為公司大家要可能為了公司的這個資產要保護都沒問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10552.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10567.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
但問題是今天大家為什麼有這麼多人的個資能夠這麼容易被騙的騙到手那麼容易的在新的通訊軟體裡面自己把自己的個資提供出去那這就代表我們全民的資產意識就不足啊那你這個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10569.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10590.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
第四條訂了這樣子的東西但後續的相關的做法裡面好像沒有特別提到這個事情部長就是我們那個原來就是在第四條有講說我們要做一個單是人才培育嘛對然後再來就是說我們會加強一些跟產學研的合作然後就用這個產學研合作跟國際交流然後再來就是對這個有一些這個規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10593.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10605.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
不過就是不管怎樣就是我們會從教育面從這個推動裡面再去加強全民對治安對部長我的意思就是這樣你們第四條的確寫了剛剛是1234嘛那你看1234我們講真的1234針對的基本上都是所謂專業人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10610.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10637.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
好 針對產業界那我今天講的因為我們今天這個是要提升全民資通安全意識它的精神是在全民所以不是只有產業因為你這個專業人才培育啦然後產學合作啦 國際交流多數的普羅大眾不可能去參加資安研討的什麼國際交流他也不會是專業人才像我以本席為例我就不可能是資安的專業人才嘛但是我們要怎麼樣增進一般民眾對於資安的意識跟保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10638.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10661.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
因為在這個願滿條文裡面你們是沒有提到一般民眾的你們真的比較像是專業人才所以我要說在這個部分的話應該要去針對全民去做個提升不能只是針對專業部分而已啊部長我們這個委員的建議很好我們在我想我們在這邊在全民怎麼樣提升安全意識我們會有一些方案來協助包括一些宣導或是一些在利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10662.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10683.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我們具體建議啦 你們應該還要去找教育部啦教育部到底我們的教材裡面 我們在平常的學校 校園裡面或是說像我們的那個叫什麼 那個地方叫社會局當然我們就內政部等等的各單位針對長照 針對長輩很多的地方這部分都應該去做 而不是只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10684.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10699.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
學不是只有專業人才就是學校從小啊以及我們長輩這份他們可能對於這個科技更新的速度沒這麼快的部分應該有一處理因為其實被詐騙很多是這些人啊好不好謝謝委員建議我們會再看部長謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝我們請廖先祥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10721.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10726.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
謝謝主席 邀請我們黃部長跟蔡署長請部長還有蔡署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10732.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10759.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
兩位午安今天討論到這個治安法嘛那一個法令訂定之後很重要的就是落地嘛那落地裡面就是執行就是我們的法令裡面有明確的規範到我們一些公務機關或者是非公務機關的特定機關必須要有自通安全的專責人員那我們有評估過在這個法令通過之後會衍生出多少的一個自通安全人員需要去補 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10761.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10785.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
不含現在缺的啦,就是未來衍生新增的需求我們有一個統計,大概兩百幾百萬謝謝委員,就剛剛所提到的部分因為這個目前我們對治安人員的專職人員的配置公共機關的話是A級機關要配置四位專職人員B級是兩個,C級是一個那D跟E他可以不需要配置,因為他比較簡單這個是目前,那目前所缺人治安專職人員大概是239人 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10787.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10804.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
新增的需要新增的239人需要新增含非公務機關如果說未來如果是新增加所管的非公務機關的話可能會比這個還更多所以二三級是公務機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10807.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10835.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
12345目前是分ABCDE剛剛您講的就是公務機關嘛239那非公務的你們還沒有統計出來現在的法令沒有去要求非公務機關要設置專職人員那新法通過之後就會要求那個所以我才講落地嘛就是法令通過之後落地之後非公務機關的特殊機關需要多少人你們現在還沒統計出來目前還沒有統計出來因為法還沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10835.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10861.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
你們應該會算法過了之後要多少人你們要先算出來才知道這法定的有沒有辦法實際去執行因為他們目前有些機關他們其實都有配置專職的治安人員這個他們也有配置那我們還沒有去精算說新法通過之後目前會缺多少你們應該是要早一點去算好需要多少人然後之後才會像現在既有的缺多少然後未來新增的需求是多少你才能夠去協助機關補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10862.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10886.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那我確認一下機關的資通安全的專職人員他可能會去兼其他的業務嗎還是他就專職在資安的業務如果是專職的話就是說他只能做資安的工作那專職的話他就可以做其他資訊的工作等等的就是資通訊相關的工作那可能資安只是他工作的一個部分對 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10887.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10914.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那這個討論到資安的這個部分其實它有點像是網路的一個警察的一個概念那每個機關可能配置幾個人那每個機關的大小業務性質不太一樣那其實可能也會衍生出同工不同酬的一些問題你們有沒有考慮過既然它是一個類似警察的一個概念因為現在像是我們社會的警察我們像立法院或者是其他單位有需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10916.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10943.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這個安全防護的時候我們會請警政署協助嘛就會派出人員那如果說是比較沒有那麼高強度的一個維安需求的話機關他可能就是委託保全公司來做一個基本的一個管理那我覺得網路安全的部分也有點類似的概念如果說是我們比較需求比較低的那他就可能委託資安公司來做維安管理那比較需求的那目前我們的狀態是每個機關都要去自己設置人員我們有考慮過 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10944.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10965.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我們的資安署就類似警政署這樣的概念來統籌所有需要的人員因為我們資安人員不一定要在現場吧資安人員原則上都是在網路上面操作啊那每個機關去派駐的一個意義好像相對於警政機關來講的話更不需要在每個機關裡面去派駐我們都討論過這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10965.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10994.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
是 跟委員報告大概就是兩個角度去想就是一個聯防的角度就是剛剛委員講的可能有一些機關它是低級或一級或是西級它的這個防護需求沒有那麼的需求那麼高那我們透過像一些聯防的機制來協助這個部分例如說我們盡量是用像GSN像政府機關來講GSN這邊政府的網路裡面的一些相關的一些攔阻或是防護部分來協助他們這個部分那是透過誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10995.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11016.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
你說的聯防我們在治安院這邊我們跟這個訴訟室這邊有一個接生那這邊可以對政府的網路做一些防護的一些相關的措施所以我們這邊有一批人然後可以協助比較對技術上面的協助對對對就是有什麼問題可以協助他們是需要的時候另外一個是目前的法令規定裡面就是說假設你機會裡面沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11017.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11026.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
可以聘到足夠的專職人員的話你可以用委外人員暫時來替代那這個也可以補足目前治安人力不足的一個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11027.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11052.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
對 那我想說就是我們有沒有辦法像警慎署這樣子把所有的資安人員都我們就編列在我們資安署裡面然後協助各個機關來做資通訊的一個安全的維護不管是我們人類的調度還是我們相關人員的待遇編制工作時數等等的都在同一個部會裡面相對起來它是比較會穩定然後你可以跨機關去支援譬如說你剛剛講某一個機關四個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11054.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11075.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那可能突然遭遇到大量攻擊的時候四個人不一定有辦法負荷嘛那如果說我們通通在資安署裡面的話那我們就可以很輕鬆地去調派啊我剛剛要請教的就是這個東西謝謝委員 這個的確是一個蠻好的一個方向啦就是說假設人力可以集中的話不管是教育訓練 專業技能的提升我覺得這是一個蠻好的一個想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11075.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11087.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
但是因為這整個治安人力一條邊涉及到人事人種等等相關的一些法令規定的這個體制那後續是不是容我們在後續研究那也要跟人事總書這邊在相關的溝通對所以這個當然還牽扯到我們人事組織法的一個問題所以說署長這邊也是認為如果說能夠一條邊由我們這邊治安署統一來做一些管理跟協助機關做治安安全的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11101.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11117.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
會是一個比較有效率的一個方式嗎對 這個同意 但這個確實牽涉到組織法的調整好 沒關係 如果說我們的目標一致的話那我希望說後續我們需要提出修法的部分還是需要跟跨級官員的部分讓大家一起來努力 以上 謝謝好 謝謝 我們請陳樹越委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11135.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11139.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
謝謝主席 請主席要請黃部長還有蔡署長請部長蔡署長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11149.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11163.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
今天委員會針對資安管理法的修正條文進行詢問剛剛也很多委員都有關心到根據國安局公布的資料台灣在2024年受到罔工、駭工的統計數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11170.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11193.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
比2023年多了兩倍就是2024年台灣是遭受超過8億次的網路攻擊所以平均每日有240萬次是2023年的兩倍之多那我們也看到這個國安局的一個統計裡面就是我們遭受攻擊的這個被攻擊的目標就是都是以這個基礎的關鍵設施為主遭受這個攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11197.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11211.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這個看起來也是真的是蠻嚴重的所以就這個部分就是請教我們抒發部就是我們有關這個關鍵基礎設施的一個資安防護我們抒發部大概有哪一些的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11212.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11230.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
通常遇到這種政府單位或是關鍵基礎設施provider我們會做治安的一些攻防演練 集合當然他們要做一些通報 情緒分享所以從這方面我們是對關鍵基礎建設來做一些治安的強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11231.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11246.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
當然這裡會因為關鍵基礎建設有很多是跨部就屬於不同部會所以我們會跟部會之間有一些合作比如說有水電是在經濟部然後醫院在衛福部這些我們都會一起來做這些治安的合作跟防護 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11247.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11264.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
是那就是基礎關鍵設施的一個防護然後很重要那當然就是有關這個資安的一個維護計畫也是非常的重要所以我們看到資安法裡面就是第12條有提到就是公務機關每年要向上級或監督機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11266.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11283.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
提出這個資通安全維護計畫的實施情形那無上級機關者這個資安安全維護計畫實施情形應該送主管機關那照這個條文看起來好像都不是送我們速發部的資安署 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11286.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11311.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
通報會到我們自安署嗎跟委員報告的確是通報都會到我們署裡面來因為我們有一個通報的系統所以只要有發生自然事件只要一個小時內他就要再通報到我們的系統裡面來掌握相關的一個事件這個是受到攻擊的時候的通報嗎平常的這個自然維護計劃呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11312.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11324.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
是那跟委員報告就是委務計畫各單位就要在每年訂定然後他成這個成他的主管核定之後就可以但是那個這個計畫的實施情形他要報到這個書畫部這邊來 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11327.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11350.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
實施情形要保了,所以我們抒發部、資安署可以確實掌握嗎?掌握各機關的實施情形嗎?是的,因為他們有一個系統,他們透過系統裡面來填報他們的整個計畫實施情形那我們就可以根據他的實施情形之後做一些相關的一些分析等等的做一些相關的一些報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11351.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11371.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
是那就是不曉得說這個部分到底有沒有確實的落實我想這個部分應該我們資安署要積極的去了解這個部分我們在要求機關在第一年的大概三月底前要填報前一年度的這個維護計畫的這個時間前行 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11374.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11383.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
對好那這個資安的維護非常重要那剛剛我們有提到這個基礎關鍵設施所以對這個通訊就是有關這個通訊的部分關鍵基礎設施我們抒發部就是如果說面對這個天災風災或者是地震發生的這個基礎設施就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11398.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11407.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
就是斷訊的時候就是有關基地台如果說毀損的時候我們速發部有什麼方法可以來支援這個通訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11408.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11430.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
通訊的韌性是非常重要 那我們蘇阿部做在這邊就是我們就是就是多元益子的網路通訊包括海陸空嘛所以就是說從這個地面的fiber到所謂的4G 5G到微波到天上的衛星低軌中軌高軌都有在佈建 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11431.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11456.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
所以希望能夠在不管什麼天災人禍都希望通訊能夠通能夠暢通這是我們的書畫部的一個很重要的目標是啊是目標啦那當然就是說如果遇到的時候我們可以怎麼做啦那我有看到本席有看到就是說在0403的花蓮地震的時候我們確實是有發揮這樣子的一個功能就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11457.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11483.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
利用這個低軌衛星投入這個救災我想這個是值得肯定的就是我們也是透過跟空勤的這個直升機的合作把這個就是通訊的這個低軌衛星設備投到天翔那邊去然後可以來協助這個救災這個是非常重要的因為在完全斷訊的情況下不管是居民要對外聯絡求救或者是說我們政府機關要 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11485.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11500.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
這個通訊真的是不可或缺的所以這是非常重要那本席也有注意到就是說除了低軌衛星之外還有一個設備就是高空通訊平台那這部分我不曉得說我們速發部目前進展的這個狀況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11502.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11523.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這個高空通訊平台我們去年有做了一個系統就是用高空的氣球來把通訊設備來做通訊那個實驗是成功的那今年本來是要有無人機做這件事情但是因為預算被砍所以我們今年這個計畫是暫停不過我們希望未來能夠再重新啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11524.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11536.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我本期注意到的是剛剛部長說是成功的可是我看媒體報導是我們那次升空是失敗的那是因為那天有颱風風力太大我們先測試成功記者會那天沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11541.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11568.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
不是記者會那天沒辦法升空但前面我們已經經過測試測試是有成功的記者會要發表所以你用這個氣球的方式還是有很大的變數嗎所以如果說災害發生的時候剛好風力又太大那你就派不上用場了對 但是就是說在事後的救災就剛剛講說颱風過後天氣開始轉好以後氣球就可以上去就那天我們在做記者會的時候正好遇到颱風所以那天就沒有升空 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11569.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11576.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
是所以我覺得說這個氣球這種方式真的是還是有很大的變數所以剛剛部長有提到要發展無人機那國外都已經用這個無人機來就是載運這樣子的一個通訊的設備所以我們也是真的是很遺憾的就是說在114年的這個預算裡面就是我們這個速發部確實也有編列的預算就是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11598.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11623.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
關於這個晶片驅動產業創新再升級的這個經費裡面有一部分是要辦理非地面通訊關鍵技術應用的推動嘛對不對那這個預算現在目前都沒了因為被刪減所以我們現在是今年暫停今年暫停就被刪減了就暫停了所以我覺得這個在野黨亂山預算真的就是危害國家的安全因為對於這個整個數位國家的一個韌性真的是傷害非常的大謝謝部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11634.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11657.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
好 謝謝 我們現在請邱若驊委員謝謝主席 主席請速發部黃部長請部長部長好 部長好 部長我們現在看到法務部的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11658.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11670.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那我們看到114年 我們先看114年1月到3月那全國各地檢署他們所提出一共新增的44,761件的電信網路詐騙雖然這個是電信網路詐騙的部分嘛 可是僅僅三個月那詐騙的案件數就已經超過108年的34,947件那以全年來看 雖然跟113年比起來 112年它有下降嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11686.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11704.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那可是還是有167,932件那單日最高的詐騙金額高達5億元那顯示詐騙仍然是非常的長久那手段也是不斷的翻新對此本席要就打詐的議題就叫部長部長我們先來看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11705.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11718.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
好下一個投影片那民國八十一年的時候環保署他有推出保特瓶回收的政策嘛當時公告每每回收一支保特瓶可兌換兩元的壓平費那到了八十六年呢環保署將回收的金額從兩塊錢調到一塊錢那 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11721.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11744.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
同年他又將押平費改為回收獎勵金那接著在89年的時候回收獎勵金他進一步降到每支0.5元那最後在民國91年他全面取消了獎勵的制度那我們也看到財政部那民國71年的時候他有制定統一發票給獎的辦法嘛那初期是每個月開獎後來隨著制度的演進每兩個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11745.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11770.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
開講一次那到了102年為了配合電子發票的政策推動財政部他有增設了雲端發票專屬的獎勵鼓勵民眾使用電子發票那部長本席會舉這兩個例子喔他這兩項政策的推動喔您認為當時政府為什麼會推這兩項政策他的思維跟目的是什麼應該就是鼓勵大家用電子發票就是以發票這個來講或是回收鼓勵回收這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11771.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11787.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
是因為政策的推動往往需要就是以獎勵的方式來鼓勵民眾使用嘛那為了有效打炸速發部也有開發了一個網炸通報查詢的APP那這個APP在去年的9月30號現在4月7號我們又上架了 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11787.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11814.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
4月7號的時候又上架了那目前的下載次數大約是多少15000多15000多個民眾下載15000多個民眾下載然後目前有大概舉報的詐騙訊息從去年到現在大概15萬多然後你們有7萬多是詐騙訊息我們都要求這些廣告平台上下架大概已經下架7萬多所以平均每一個月下架1萬多的詐騙廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11815.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11830.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
平均每個月下架1萬多的詐騙廣告因為本行看到他目前在安卓的平台上面他的下載次數是5000多次所以在iOS系統上面要重新更新這個因為軟體是重新上架所以如果以前有安裝過要重新更新 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11831.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11855.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
OK 好那另外有看到速發部這個是LINE的部分速發部跟通訊軟體LINE合作你們合作推出了防炸的動態警報請問部長這個防炸的動態警報它功能是什麼時候上線的防炸動態警報那個去年的上半年正式上線嗎去年上半年那目前有多少民眾加入使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11856.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11867.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我算百應該是百萬以上吧不好意思這個數字百萬以上那本席這邊看到他目前的好友數是一百三十七萬七千多民眾那跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11869.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11892.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
網站的通報APP相比那這個LINE的防炸它的防炸動態警報它的普及率跟使用度是比較高的那有沒有考量目前LINE的使用戶也有2200萬左右嘛那有沒有考慮就是說要加強宣導呢LINE跟我們也有合作在這個防爆上面加上就是我們有這樣的互通的一個機制那這個LINE的通報數平均是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11893.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11916.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
9的通報數他這個數目我想這個資料我們還要再去還要再請再請訴發部提供提供相關的資料那也希望訴發部可以積極的研議那針對一下回報詐騙的資訊率準確比較高的民眾或是他非常積極的去反映詐騙那是不是可以提供具體的獎勵這個也在演繹嗎ok好那接下來我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11917.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11936.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
部長我們看EID我們回歸我們回顧EID的歷程那他從2013年開始研發最近已經超過10年了那他的預算也高達46億那原本要在2020年10月份的時候推出可是當時外界對於治安的風險還有疑慮嘛最後在2021年的時候他宣布全面 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11937.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11959.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
停止推行那後來也因為違約的關係他賠償了廠商2.8億那就本席小姐部長您擁有美國Maryland大學的科訓資訊科學碩博士的學位那這邊要請教部長為什麼當時您的專業判斷EID沒有辦法推行呢我想EID有幾個一個當然就是說因為它是一個實體卡片 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11960.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11977.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
而且是強迫要取代所有的目前的身份證那你沒有選擇要用破不用那這個卡片的資安就變得很重要那當然一個是這個卡片的資安大家對他還是有疑慮因為那個晶片本身的資安因為有疑慮所以我想是由 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11977.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12001.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
因為它有分成四大區塊嘛 因為它有分成就是戶籍地區 公開區 加密區 還有自然人憑證區那本席要問 今年速發部3月10號數位憑證皮夾 它也是將自然人憑證健保卡還有駕照等重要的文件整合存放那民眾只需要一支手機 它就可以進行身份驗證那它跟EID的最主要的那個報告文完全不一樣 因為那個憑證皮夾是一個容器 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12002.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12025.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
是 它是一個載具嘛對 那我們不會發行新的憑證也就是拿既有憑證 而且你可以選擇性要放一般就是說自然的憑證不是強迫你一定要放上去如果覺得有需要才放所以它是一個container它不是一個新的證件所以它沒有打算取代身份證也不是 它不會取代所以從3月10號當時推出到現在一個月現在民眾的現在是這樣 就是我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12026.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12050.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
開放沙盒讓不同的產業來使用包括這裡面包括各個業者產業跟政府業者目前有1300個申請案就是說他們可以把他們已經有的憑證放在這個我們這個這個容器裡面這個容器的好處是說你不用重新開發新的APP如果你只是要把certificate放上來已經有東西可以放這個確實對很多公司跟政府單位是一個幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12050.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12053.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那這個經費來源是從公共基礎建設的經費向下去增益那今年的經費額度約大概是在1億元左右的幅度 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12076.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12098.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
OK 好 謝謝您的說明那部長目前你剛剛提到有1300戶是企業用戶嗎就是有包括所以跟委員說明一下1300包含了個人那也包含了廠商那也包含了支付業者都會是在1300萬喔所以預計今年年底12月他可以順利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12099.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12117.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
我們就是期待在整個因為目前是在測試階段是那我們希望在測試階段的各界能夠積極回應我們一些相關的改善建議那我們期待能夠在12月會有第一版的公開測試版讓大家能夠去使用OK好也務必要確認就是各自的安全謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12127.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12148.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
鄭天才 鄭天才 鄭天才委員不在高金素美 高金素美 高金素美委員不在楊瓊英 楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員不在好 我們請黃婕委員好 謝謝主席 我們請黃部長請部長好 委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12158.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12182.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
好部長好我在這邊延續早上的提案說明因為其實今天修這個資通安全管理法裡面有一個很重要的就是要求公務機關不得採購跟使用危害國家安全的產品那其實在我的版本裡面有更明確的提到我們就是這個危害國家安全的資通產品到底對象是誰那我裡面是非常明確的把紅色供應鏈都寫出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12183.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12200.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
就是包括中港澳還有境外敵對勢力的產品都不能採購跟下載以及使用那所以我在這邊也想要請教我們肅發部的意見認為直接這樣子寫出來那這個條文的可行性如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12201.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12231.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
報告委員這個我想這個因為這個危害國家中央安全產品這個因為比如說我們今天如果跟某家某一個公司在公司是美國公司那有可能在使用過程之後他有中資入股那就變成有危害所以重點是在後面的審查就後面的使用的時候的審查檢查跟通報所以我想這個條文這樣寫當然是很好更清楚但是還不還不大夠我們後面還是有個使用跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12232.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12247.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
部長對我要跟你講一下我的版本裡面其實是包括前面他前段是寫說不得下載公務機關不得下載及使用採購這個有危害的產品以及包括中港澳其實我是把兩個項目都放進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12247.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12275.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
所以不管是使用端還是前端其實都有放進去那其實我要講喔行政院2020年其實就已經有一個函文了對不對就是直接下令公務機關原則上禁止使用及採購大陸廠牌的資通訊產品那我認為就是在這邊就是把它法制化而已所以我認為這個應該是沒有什麼意義那我希望部長可以更明確的把這個條文如果真的進到修法的時候可以把它入法OK |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12277.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12304.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這個我們可以再好謝謝部長那再來其實還有一點時間我要講一下另外我早上有特別提到醫療的資通安全的部分那這個是最近因為有發生過包括說二月的馬街醫院三月的彰化基督教醫院四月中壢的長盛醫院都被攻擊然後掛號失靈這個掛號失靈是醫院被迫改成人工叫號然後醫生要在那邊手寫處方然後還有八萬多人的病例疑似被外洩 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12305.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12333.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那這其實是非常嚴重的事情那這個我要再講說醫院其實就是非常重要的關鍵基礎設施嘛那既然這麼重要的話除了說我知道說當時衛福部也有請我們資安署來協助對不對我們有派人進駐去看他們到底是發生什麼狀況那在這邊我想要了解一下當時這個資訊洩漏的災情到底如何那我們如何去防範那我在這邊提一下這個美國的一些例子喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12334.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12359.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
因為其實在今年二月底美國的FDA還有他們的網路安全基礎設施的設施局其實就有提到說有一款中國生產的生理監視器CMS8000就是他們的康泰克生產的那其實裡面可能有一個後門這個後門是可以把病患的資料傳輸到中國第三方大學的IP裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12360.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12385.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那這聽起來蠻驚悚的喔等於是說如果你用中國的這個機器他把你的生理監視的資料可以從後門偷偷的偷走那我認為在這邊要非常防範這些事情啦雖然我們不知道說二三四月發生的這一些在台灣的案例到底是純粹的駭客想要透過做一些商業上面的勒索還是他背後還有其他的意圖不得而知 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12386.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12396.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
那這個就是要請你們去調查的所以可不可以請我們的資安署說明一下調查出來的結果包括他的目的為何然後災情洩漏的狀況還有如何去防範 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12398.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12416.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
謝謝委員的關心這個從2月份開始的包括說馬街、張機等等的相關醫院的這些駭客入侵的這些手法我們都發現都是屬於一個駭客組織叫做Credit Hunter這個駭客組織這個駭客組織我們也發現裡面有一些信件好像有點簡體制這樣的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12418.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12433.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
因此在後來就有一些警察單位去做調查那在今年的4月2號那個刑事警察局就有發布一個新聞就是說他們破獲了這個Crazy Hunter這個駭客組織裡面有一位來自中國大陸的姓羅姓的一個駭客他是20歲左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12434.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12450.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那所以大概目前來講對於這個駭客組織已經有一些掌握跟有一些破獲那目前應該是循著這些國際的這些國際的這個行政組織等等在相關的這個通緝是目前對這個的一個瞭解那另外剛剛也提到是說對這個醫院的這個防範這個熱索病毒的攻擊那目前在這幾次事件裡面我們發現還是一個終端防護的一個設施叫做EDR |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12459.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12470.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
是最有效的防護措施那這個部分會不會也在協助各個醫院跟廠商洽談一個比較優惠的價格來導入相關的這個終端防患的這個治安設備 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12470.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12497.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
好謝謝我覺得到目前是蠻完整的確實我們目前掌握到就是這個crazy hunter那只是說如果這個真的是如剛剛署長署長所說他背後有一些就是中國的勢力他可能是對台灣的整體防衛性的一個測試是一個壓力測試的話那這個真的不得了非常嚴重對所以這個是必須要往下追查以及相關防範的在這邊提醒好謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12506.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12521.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
謝謝王美惠 王美惠 王美惠委員不在李柏毅 李柏毅 李柏毅委員不在蘇津淺 蘇津淺 蘇津淺委員不在葛如軍 葛如軍 葛如軍委員不在張祺凱 張祺凱 張祺凱委員不在葉元智 葉元智 葉元智委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12526.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12546.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
登記委員均已發言完畢 作以下決定報告及詢問完畢委員邱振軍所提書面諮詢 列入紀錄並刊登公報委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請數位發展部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12549.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12572.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
現在處理自動安全管理法修正案的審查本日僅先進行宣讀條文的程序如果有修正動議或附帶決議也一併宣讀如果不是跟這個法案有關的可以先離開我們現在請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12580.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12587.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
OK 沒關係好 你行OK OK OK好 OK 好OK 辛苦你們那個臉 臉真得不用坐在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12597.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12614.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
資通安全管理法修正草案共識四案條文對照表第一章張明各提案章明均未修正同性行章明第一條除委員羅美玲等提案外其餘行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨環提案委員提案均未修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12615.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12638.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
委員羅美玲等提案第一條後段修正為促進產業發展及提升全民治安意識特制定本法其餘文字同心形條文第二條除委員蔡奇昌格盧君李柏芸羅美玲等提案外其餘行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員提案均為 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12640.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12664.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
本法治主管機關為數位發展部國家資通安全業務由數位發展部資通安全署以下簡稱治安署辦理委員蔡奇昌格盧君李博義等提案第二條本法治主管機關為數位發展部委員羅美玲等提案除第二項默劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12666.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12670.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
多了統籌兩個文字外其餘文字同行這面提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12671.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12699.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
第三條,除委員葛如君、沈博洋、賴瑞隆、林怡謹、陳樹越、林俊憲、盧美玲、台灣民眾黨黨團等提案外,其餘行政院提案委員提案均為在第三款後段修正為銷毀或其他情形影響其機密性、完整性或可用性第四款 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12700.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12726.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
第四款在中段刪除資通安全後面政策兩個文字以及默劇構成資通安全政策之威脅等文字第六款做文字上的修正在前段關鍵基礎設施前面徵訂特定兩個文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12729.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12748.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
據莫修正為公營事業或特定財團法人等文字第七款前段作修正為指行政院定期檢視並公告之領域中該領域服務所依賴之等文字在莫具修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12750.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12769.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
国民生活或经济活动有重大影响之余者第八款修正为特定关键基础设施提供者自委运或提供关键基础设施全部或一部所依赖自资通系统经中央目的事业主管机关指定送由主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12770.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12793.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
機關報請行政任何定者第9款修正為特定財團法人只符合財團法人法第2條第2項第3項或第63條第1項第4項規定之財團法人並屬該法第2條第8項所定全國性財團法人者文革如君等提案第3條 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12798.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12825.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
在第七款的部分做一個文字修正其關鍵基礎設施指經行政院定期檢視並公告之領域中該領域服務所依賴之等文字第八款的序文修正為關鍵自動基礎設施提供者 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12825.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12852.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
第九款修正為九特定財團法人只符合財團法人法第二條第二項或第六三條第一項規定之財團法人並屬該法第二條第八項所定全國性財團法人者除以上修正外均同行政院提案違憲駁養等提案第三條在第五款的部分地方機關苟或 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12853.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12865.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
後面修正為行政法人等文字 第六款在公營事業後面修正為或特定財團法人等文字第七款 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12866.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12894.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
前段修正為指行政公告之關鍵領域中該領域服務所依賴之系統或網路之實體或虛擬資產目據修正為國民生活或經濟活動有重大影響止於者第八款的目據修正為經歷第十九條規定通知者第九款中段修正為第三項或第六十三條第一項規定除以上修正外 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12895.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12922.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
其餘均同行政院提案為賴瑞隆等提案第3條第8款修正為特定關鍵基礎設施提供者只提供關鍵基礎設施所需一部或全部資通訊系統或為此其運作者經中央目的事業主管機關指定順由主管機關報請行政院合併政定第10款 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12924.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12949.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
文字內容為十 危害國家資通安全產品子對國家資通安全具有直接或間接造成危害風險影響政府運作或身為安電之資通系統或資通服務經營主管機關列管之產品或服務除以上修正外均同行政面提案委員連行等提案第三條第六款 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12951.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12968.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
文字內容修正為六特定非公務機關指特定基礎設施提供者公允私業或特定財產法人其文字均衡行政院提案為前數月等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12970.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12993.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
第三條第四款的中斷修正第四款第四款的中斷安全的後面維持政策兩個文字第七款修正為關鍵基礎設施指進行正面定期檢視並公告這領域其領域服務所依賴之公司有實體或虛擬的資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12996.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13018.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
政令第10款文字內容為危害國家資通安全產品指對國家資通安全具有直接或間接造成危害風險影響政府運作或社會安定制資通系統或資通服務並經主管機關核定者除以上修正外均同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13027.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13047.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
委員林俊憲等提案第三條在第七款的部分修正為其關鍵基礎事實指行政院公告之關鍵領域中該領域服務所依賴之系統或網路之實體或虛擬資產其文字同行政院提案委員林美玲等提案第三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13051.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13066.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
第六款中段修正為關鍵基礎設施之違運或提供者第七款前段修正為指行自願議院定期解釋並公告這領域中間領域所依賴之實體或虛擬資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13071.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13090.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
徵定第10款文字內容為危害國家資通安全產品只對國家資產安全具有直接或間接造成危害風險可能影響政府運作或社會安定之資通系統或資通服務批監主管機關和定者其餘均同行這邊提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13111.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13123.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
第三條的第三款莫具修正為銷毀或其他侵害以確保其機密性完整性及可用性 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13126.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13151.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第3條在第6款的部分默劇修正為特定財團法人或受政府控制之事業團體或機構政令第10款文字內容為受政府控制之事業團體或機構指全序部公告之政府即其所屬營業基金非營業基金轉投資金而累計 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13153.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13165.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
佔該事業資本額百分之二十以上之轉投資或再投資事業受政府直接或間接控制其人事財務或業務之轉投資或再轉投資事業團體或機構增訂第十一款危害國家之通安全產品之對國家之 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13176.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13204.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
通安全具有直接或間接造成危害風險影響政府運作或社會安定並經主管機關定期公告之資通系統或資通服務產品 其餘均同行政院提案第四條 除委員葛如君 沈柏洋 蔡啟昌羅美林等提案 外其餘行政院提案 臺灣民眾黨黨團提案委員提案均為 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13206.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13229.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
在第一項第四款的默劇修正為相關服務及審驗機制之發展第二項修正為前項相關四項之推動由主管機關擬定國家智通安全發展方案報請行政院核定後14區文字同性型條文文革如軍等題案第四條 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13231.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13236.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
徵訂第一項第五款文字內容為協助民間處理因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13238.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13267.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
及防範滋通安全事件 其文字同行政院提案 委員審博洋等提案第4條在第2項的部分 莫具修正為報請行政院定之 其文字同行政院提案 委員蔡其昌等提案 中間第1項第5款5 協助民間處理因應及防範滋通安全事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13270.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13275.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
許文哲銅行政院提案委員羅美玲等提案第4條 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13278.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13306.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
徵訂第一項第五款五資源民間企業的資通安全防護第六款提升全民資通安全意識第二項修正為前項相關事項之推動由主管機關擬定國家資通安全發展方案報請行政院核定後實施並視情況定期檢討修正方案內容以符合最新資資通安全需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13307.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13335.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
其餘文字同行政院提案 徵令第五條除葛 盧金城 術越 盧美玲他民眾黨黨團 邱樂華等提案外其餘行政院提案及委員提案均為第五條為落實國家自通安全政策各政府機關中央及地方間應致力配合推動執行國家自通安全措施共同建構國家自通安全環境為辦理國家自通安全政策應變 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13336.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13361.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
機制與重大計畫之諮詢審議協調各政府機關中央及地方建設自通安全相關事務行政院應召開國家自通安全匯報其幕僚作業由主管機關辦理前向國家自通安全匯報決議事項與相關政府部門應與執行由主管機關定期追蹤管考並得辦理績效平和第一項國家自通安全匯報之組成 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13362.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13369.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
任務議事程序及其他相關事項之辦法有行政院定則文革如君等提案第五條 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13371.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13395.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
在第一項的前段安全政策後面定為各級政府機關應致力配合推動執行在第二項的後段定為行政院應定期召開國家資通安全匯報由行政院院長擔任召集人其幕僚作業由主管機關辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13396.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13420.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
其文字同行政院提案委員陳樹葉等提案第五條前段安全政策的後面定為中央及地方政府機關間第二項的默劇定為行政院應定其召開國家自通安全匯報其幕僚作業由主管機關辦理其文字同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13421.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13444.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
為盧美玲等提案第五條第一項的默劇定為並提升跨機關自通安全協助能力第二項定為為推動國家自通安全政策之執行應變機制與重大計畫之諮詢審議以及協調各政府機關中央及地方間自通安全相關事務主管機關應召開國家自通安全匯報 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13447.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13468.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
統籌支通安全事務至規劃與執行並負責各機關之橫向聯繫與協調會報至幕僚作業由主管機關辦理第三項後段定為並由主管機關定期追蹤考核必要時而辦理績效平和確保各機關有效落實支通安全政策第四項 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13470.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13478.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
的墨具定位由主管機關擬定報請行政院核定後實施台灣民眾黨黨團提案第五條 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13480.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13504.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
第二項的中斷後定為行政院應涉國家之通安全匯報由行政院院長擔任召集人召集相關部會首長專家學者及民間團體代表共同組成專家學者及民間團體代表不得低於三分之一至少每三個月開會一次必要時的召開臨時會議期幕僚作業由主管機關辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13506.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13530.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
其文字同行政院提案委員邱若驊等提案第五條第二項莫具修正委行政院用電器召開國家資訊安全匯報其幕僚作業由主管機關辦理其文字同行政院提案第六條原條文第五條除葛如、菌、邱若驊等提案外其與行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員提案均為 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13534.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13541.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
在第一項的墨具這邊修正及國家資通安全發展方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13542.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13570.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
第二項的後段修正為及國家自通安全發展方案應由主管機關送立法院備查其文字同性型條文文革如今等提案第六條在第一項的中段修正為並應每年公布國家自通安全情報情勢報告對公務機關及特定非公務機關之等文字莫具這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13572.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13597.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
做修正為及國家資通安全發展方案第二項修正為前項情勢報告對公務機關及特定非公務機關資通安全維護計畫實施情形集合概況報告及國家資通安全發展方案應由主管機關送立法院備查其餘文字同新型條文委員邱若驊等提案第六條 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13599.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13623.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
在第一項的部分中段這邊修正為資通安全科技發展國際與學術交流合作及資通安全整體防護等相關事宜其文字同行政院提案第七條除外原格如君審博洋賴瑞榮等提案外其行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案為人提案均為 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13626.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13644.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
公務機關及特定非公務機關應按其業務重要與精密性機關層級保有或處理之資訊種類數量、性質、自動系統之規模及性質等條件、保有之安屬、核定或被查其自通安全、責任等級 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13648.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13677.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
公務機關及特定非公務機關應符合資通安全責任等級之要求並自管理技術認知及訓練等面向辦理資通安全防護措施前二項資通安全責任等級之區分標準和訂貨備查程序並更申請資通安全防護措施辦理項目內容專職人員之配置與專業條件及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13680.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13691.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
委員個如今等提案第七條在第一項的莫具修正為抱有主管機關和定期之通安全責任等級 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13699.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13723.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
第三項修正為前兩項主動安全責任等級之區分基準合併程序變更申請自動安全防護措施辦理項目內容專職人員資這個條件與配置及其他相關思想的辦法由主管機關定制 其餘文字同行這邊提案 文審不讓等提案第七條第三項的 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13723.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13748.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
莫具修正委專職人員資格與配置及其他相關事項的辦法由主管機關訂製 據文字同行政院提案委員賴玉榮等提案第七條第一項的聚首修正為主管機關應橫著公務機關及特定非公務機關其餘文字同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13754.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13769.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
第八條原條文第七條第二項及第三項除委員葛如君、沈伯陽、賴瑞榮、羅美玲等提案外其行政院提案、台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員提案均為第八條資安署 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13770.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13797.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
得定期或不定期集合公務機關及特定非公務機關自自通安全維護計劃實施情形傾向集合後發現受集合機關自通安全維護計劃實施情形有缺失或待改善者受集合機關應提出改善報告公務機關送交1第14條規定受其實施情形之機關特定非公務機關送交中央目的事業主管機關審查後 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13799.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13811.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
由該審查機關送交自安署前項收受改善報告自機關任有必要時得要求受集合機關進行說明或調整前三項支通安全維護計畫實施情形之 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13815.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13835.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
結合評慮內容與方法改善報告再提出及其他相關事項的辦法由主管機關訂資並向結合郵支安署擬定年度計畫送由主管機關報請行政院核定後辦理年度計畫及年度成果報告應送交國家之通安全匯報被查 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13838.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13853.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
文革無均等提案第8條B1 向修正委主管機關應定期或不定期集合公務機關及非特定公務機關之直通安全維護計畫實施清醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13854.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13869.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
第二項的墨具修正為受機和機關應提出改善報告並送交主管機關審核第二項文字內容為主管機關收受改善報告後任有必要時可要求受機和機關進行說明或調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13870.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13898.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
其文字同行政院提案委員審撥樣等提案第八條第二項的默劇修正為改善報告因送交上級機關上級政府監督機關或中央目的事業主管機關審查後並送交資安署第四項前三項自動安全維護計畫實施情形之集合頻率內容與方法及其他相關事項辦法由主管機關定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13899.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13917.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
第五項 第一項 集合郵資安數 擬定年度計劃後辦理年度計劃及年度成果報告因送交國家自通安全匯報被查區民自通行政院提案 委內容等提案第八條 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13919.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13942.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
第二項經前項集合發現受集合機關知通安全維護計畫實施情形有缺失或待改善者受集合機關應提出改善報告第三項前項報告之提出公務機關應依第14條規定辦理特定非公務機關應送交目的是主管機關審查後再送知安署 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13944.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13958.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
第六項 第一項 集合郵支安署 擬定年度計畫後辦理年度計畫及年度成果 報告應送交國家之通安全匯報備查其文字同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13959.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13975.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
為盧美玲等提案第8條各公務機關及特定非公務機關自自通安全維護計畫應接受主管機關定期或不定期是結合以確保自通安全措施之落實為確保結合結果有效執行主管機關的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13976.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13995.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
SO 集合機關依據集合結果提出改善計畫並於指定期限內完成改善必要時主管機關得進行績效評估並將集合及改善進行列入機關考核主管機關辦理前項集合及考核自執行前行範圍及集團相關事項由主管機關定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13999.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14014.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
第9條原條文第8條除委員隔離捐等提案外其餘行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員提案均為在聚首的部分修正為之按屬區文字同心形條文委員隔離捐等提案第9條 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14017.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14041.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
條文未修正 同心形條文第10條原條文第9條除委員葛禄君 林怡謹 蔡奇昌 羅美蓮 台灣民眾黨黨運動提案外期域行政院提案委員提案均為在兵線的部分後段修正為應選任適當之受託者要求受託者建立有效之直通安全管理機制並監督該機制之實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14044.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14066.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
第二項文字內容為公務機關或特定非公務機關辦理前項委外業務應與受託者簽訂書面契約載明雙方自權利義務及違約責任據文字同心形條文 文格如君等提案第10條 正面第二項前項受託者辦理受託業務自 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14068.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14075.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
相關程序及環境應具備完善自治通安全管理措施或通過公正第三方驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14079.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14106.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
以下第三項第四項第五項文字內容為受委託業務包括客製化自通系統開發者受託者應提供該自通系統的安全性檢測證明該系統屬委託機關之核心之通系統或委託金額達新台幣一千萬元以上者委託機關應練行委託公證第三方進行安全檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14108.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14132.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
前兩項公正第三方應具備充足資源及認證能力且與被認證對象不得有利害關係公務機關或特定非公務機關辦理第一項委外業務應與受託者訂定契約在明雙方之權利義務及違約責任舉文字統行政院提案為臨時等提案第10條 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14134.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14160.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
在第一項的後段修正為要求收託者建立有效自治通安全管理機制並監督該機制之實施其文字同行政院提案委員蔡其昌等提案第9條在第一項的後段修正為及要求收託者建立有效自治通安全管理機制公務機關或特定非公務機關並應監督該機制之實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14164.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14193.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
中例第三項文字內容為未確保國家資通訊安全主管機關應訂定前項書面契約範本公參為羅美玲等提案第十條公務機關及特定非公務機關為外辦理資通系統之建設為運貨服務提供應採取資通安全措施並於契約中明定為外廠商資通安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14194.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14212.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
管理責任主管機關應提供契約範本以供各機關在委外契約中訂定安全要求包括包含數據保護系統維護異常通報機制等委外機關對受託廠商支通安全措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14214.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14241.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
主管機關得進行審查必要時而要求改進或補充知通安全防務作勢台灣民眾黨黨團提案第十條第三項訂定的文字為前項書面契約資格是內容主管機關應訂定形化契約範本及其應記載及不得記載事項其文字同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14242.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14259.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
文革如君等提案 政定第十一條文之內容為公務機關及特定非公務機關應規劃並於公正第三方監督之下辦理志同安全演練作業並完成後一個月內將執行前行及成果報告送交主管機關前項演練之 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14261.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14283.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
內容由主管機關令定制第二章張明各提案張明均為修正通現行張明政見第十一條除委員葛禄君、沈伯陽、賴瑞龍、黃姐、蔡啟昌、林俊憲、羅美玲、台灣民眾黨黨團等提案外其餘行政院提案委員提案均為 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14285.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14302.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
第11條公務機關不得下載安裝或使用危害國家之通安全產品其自行或危害營運場所所提供公眾式聽或使用之傳播設備及網際網路接取服務一同但因業務需求且無 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14303.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14324.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
其他替代方案者經該機關資通安全長及依第14條規定收受其實施情形資機關資通安全長合可含報主管機關核定後得以專案方式使用並列車管理公務人員因或配置公務用資通 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14326.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14347.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
訊設備不得下載安裝或使用危害國家直通安全產品並應遵守相關法令規範前兩項有關危害國家直通安全產品之審查程序風險評估情資分享使用限制及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關會商有關機關擬定報請行政院核定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14349.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14375.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
委員葛如君等提案第13條公務機關不得採購下載安裝或使用危害國家資通安全產品其自行或委外經營運場所已同但因業務需求且無其他替代方案者竟該機關資通安全長及其上級機關資通安全長何可含報主管機關核定後得以專案方式使用並類測管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14378.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14402.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
據文字統 行政院提案 委員審 撥樣等提案第11條公益機關不得採購及使用危害國家自通安全產品亦不得採購及使用大陸地區香港澳門境外敵對勢力或其所設立或實質控制之各類組織機構團體或人員提供自通服務系統及設備其自行或委員提供公眾活動或 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14403.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14421.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
使用之場地一同但因業務需求且無其他地帶方案者經該機關之通安全長及其上級機關之通安全長合可含報主管機關核定後得以專案方式構置並列車管理公務人員或配置公務用資通訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14422.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14446.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
設備不得下載安裝或使用危害國家資通安全產品亦不得下載安裝或使用大陸地區香港澳門境外敵對勢力或其屬勢力或實時控制之各類組織機構團體或人員提供資通服務及資通系統並應遵守相關法令規範公務機關得向主管機關查詢第一項產品及其廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14451.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14469.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
委內瑞隆等提案第十一條公務機關不得購置安裝下載或使用危害國家知通安全產品其自行或無外營運場所提供公眾視聽或使用之傳播設備或網際網路接取服務一同公務機關發配 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14471.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14496.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
供業務使用之資通訊設備或配者不得下載、安裝或使用危害國家資通訊安全產品並遵守相關法令規範請兩項情形與有業務上需求且無其他替代方案時得盡該機關資通安全長及其上級機關資通安全長核可函報主管機關核定後得以專案方式辦理並類測管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14501.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14530.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
最後一項修正聚首修正為第一項及第二項其文字同行政院提案為黃結等提案第十一條公共機關不得採購下載安裝或使用危害國家資通安全產品亦不得採購使用陸資廠商或大陸地區香港澳門境外敵對勢力或其所設立或實質控制之各類 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14532.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14560.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
主事機構團體或人員提供自通服務系統及設備其自行或委外營運場所提供公眾視聽或使用之傳播設備及網際網路接取服務一同但業務需求且無其他替代方案者經該機關自通安全長及依第14條規定收受其實事情形之機關自通安全長何可含報主管機關核定後得以專案方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14562.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14583.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
使用並類測管理 以下同行政院提案委員蔡啟康等提案第十條之一 公務機關軍事機關及情報機關不得下載安裝或使用危害國家自通安全產品但公務機關因業務需求且無其他替代方案 經該機關自通安全長及第十二條 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14586.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14612.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
上級或監督機關支通安全長合可且經主管機關核定得以專案方式使用主管機關應內側管理以下同行字面提案委員蔡啟昌等提案第十條之二前條第一項公務機關自行或委外營運場所提供公眾視聽或使用之傳播設備及網際網路接取服務亦適用之 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14617.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14636.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
委員 林俊憲等提案第十一條公務機關不得下載安裝或採購及使用危害國家安全之通安全產品亦不得下載安裝或採購及使用依國家安全法第二條規定之大陸地區香港澳門境外敵對勢力及其所設立或實質控制之各類組織機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14638.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14640.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
公眾視聽或使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14668.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14691.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
可以專案方式使用並類測管理公務人員接公務人員或配置公務用之通訊設備不得下載安裝或使用危害國家安全之直通安全產品亦不得下載安裝或採購及使用依國家安全法第二條規定之大陸地區香港澳門境外敵對勢力及其所設立之 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14692.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14719.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
及其所設立或實質控制之各類組織機構團體或其派遣之人提供之自動安全服務及產品並應遵守相關法令規範前二項有關危害國家安全之自動安全產品以及依國家安全法第二條規定之大陸地區香港澳門境外一類事例及其所設立或實質控制之各類組織機構團體或其派遣之人提供之 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14720.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14744.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
职通安全服务及产品制审查程序风险评估情之分享使用限制及其他相关事项的办法由主管机关会商有关机关拟定报请行政院和定之为罗美宁等提案第11条公务机关及特定非公务机关不得采购安装或使用经主管机关认定之危害国家职通安全产品 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14746.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14768.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
若因特殊業務需求卻需使用前項產品則應向主管機關提出例外使用申請並提供安全風險評估報告主管機關得逐案審查核准後方可使用主管機關應定期更新危害國家之通安全產品名單並公告各機關專訓台灣民眾黨黨團提案第十一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14774.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14792.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
第一項續文的默劇這邊有多及遵守下列規定等文字第一款字第三款文字內容為一應指定特定區域及特定人員使用且不得傳播影像或 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14794.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14807.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
聲音供不特定人士直接收視或收聽2.故事裡有消失或使用零線介面應立即銷毀3.其他主管機關指定專項其文字同行正面提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14809.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14825.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
第十二條 原條文第十一條出委內瑞隆陳述月理不一等提案外期與行政院提案 台灣民眾黨港團提案委員提案條文內容均未修正委內瑞隆等提案第十二條 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14827.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14845.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
立項同線型條文第二項 政令第二項傾向知通安全長應取得資安職能訓練機構自證照或職能訓練合格證書或經主管機關合可後任用 文成數月等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14846.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14863.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
十二條第一項同性型條文第二項前項公務機關應依責任等級制 智通安全專職人員協助執行機關內智通安全相關事務為李博義等提案第十一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14866.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14888.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
前段修正為公務機關特定非公務機關應至知通安全長政令第二項文字內容為前項知通安全長應通過資安職能訓練機構之評量獲盡主管機關合可者其文字同線性條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14891.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14899.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
第13條原條文第10條各題案條文內容均未修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14901.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14921.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
第十四條原條文第十二條除委員葛禄君、沈博洋等提案外其與行政院提案、台灣民眾黨黨團提案、委員提案均為第十四條公務機關應每年向上級機關或監督機關提出直通安全維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14923.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14947.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
計劃實施情形 五上級機關或監督機關者其自通安全維護計劃實施情形應以下列各款規定辦理一 總統府國家安全會議及五月向資安署提出二 自轄市政府自轄市議會縣市政府及縣市議會向資安署提出三 自轄市山地援助民區公所 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14947.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14975.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
紫霞市山地原住民區民代表會向紫霞市政府提出鄉鎮市公所鄉鎮市民代表會向縣政府提出委員葛如君等提案第15條第一款的墨具修正為向數位發展部提出第二款也是墨具修正為向數位發展部提出第三款修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14975.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
15002.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
慈霞市政府所轄三地原住民區公所三地原住民區民代表會向慈霞市政府提出縣市政府所轄鄉鎮市公所鄉鎮市民代表會向縣市政府提出切入文字統行政院提案委員陳伯陽等提案第14條在序文的部分後段修正為因向下列機關提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
15005.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
15023.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
第三款修正為三 紫霞市政府所轄三地原住民區公所三地原住民區民代表會向紫霞市政府提出縣市政府所轄鄉鎮市公所鄉鎮市民代表會向縣市政府提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
15026.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
15035.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
第十五條原條文第十三條主委員沈不揚等提案外籍與行政面提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
15037.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
15061.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
均為第15條公務機關應集合其所屬所監督之公務機關所轄鄉鎮市公所 子霞市山地原住民區公所及鄉鎮市民代表會子霞市山地原住民區民代表會之之通安全維護計劃實施清醒文審博洋等提案第15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
15064.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
15081.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
第一項同行自願提案第二項文字內容為第13條與前條之通安全維護計畫必要事項實施情形時提出前項集合制評論內容方法及其他相關事項的辦法由主管機關定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
15083.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
15105.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
第十六條原條文第十三條第二項出文葛禄君審博洋奈瑞隆等提案外企業行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員提案均為第十六條受集合機關至知通安全維護計畫實施情形有缺失或待改善者應向集合機關提出改善報告並由 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
15105.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
15122.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
集合機關聯同集合結果依資安署指定之方式送交資安署集合機關獲資安署任有必要時得要求受集合機關進行說明或調整前三條及第一項制通安全維護計畫必要事項實施情形之提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
15125.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
15150.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
集合之頻率內容與方法結果之交付改善報告自提出及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關定制文革如今等提案第17條在第一項的默劇修正為並由集合機關連同集合結果送交主管機關第二項的前段修正為集合機關或主管機關任有必要時 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
15157.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15173.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
第十六條第一項文字內容為受集合機關資資通安全維護計畫實施有缺失或待改善者應向集合機關提出改善報告並聯同集合結果依資安署指定之方式送交資安署 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15175.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15203.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
第二項同行政院提案委內容等提案第十六條第一項的墨具修正為並由集合機關將其安全維護計畫連同集合結果依治安署指定之方式送交治安署其文字同行政院提案第十七條原條文第十四條主委員葛如君、沈伯陽、賴瑞榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15205.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15224.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
陳樹越、林俊憲、盧美玲等提案外 七月行政院提案 台灣民眾黨黨團委員提案均為在第二項的後段修正為因項第十四條規定 收受其實施情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15225.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15239.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
知機關及資安署通報第三項前段修正為公務機關應向前項受通報機關等文字第四項前段前三項通報與應 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15243.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15267.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
應變機制之必要事項中段增訂為報告之提出演練作業等文字第五項文字內容為第五項受通報機關慈禧重大自通安全事件時得提供公務機關相關協助與適當時機並得公告與事件相關之必要內容及因應措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15269.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15280.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
委員隔如均等提案第18條第二項的中段文字內容為 應向第15條規定收受期實施情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15281.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15309.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
其餘文字同行政院提案 委員沈伯陽等提案第十七條第三項的前段 文字內容修正為公務機關一項前項接貨通報機關 第五項的聚首修正為第二項接貨通報機關 自吸重大直通安全事件時其餘文字同行政院提案 委員內容等提案第十七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15311.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15326.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
在第四項前段的部分修正為前三項通報及應變機制之必要事項六項的聚首修正為第二項接貨通報機關姿勢重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15328.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15353.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
知通安全事件時 其文字同行政院提案文呈數月等提案第17條第4項前段修正為第三項通報及應變機制是必要事項中段修正為演練作業調度資源及其他相關事項之辦法其文字同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15356.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15377.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
為林俊憲等提案第十七條第五項第五項的據手修正為第二項接獲通報機關之息重大滋通安全事件時其餘文字同行政院提案為盧美玲等提案第十七條各公務機關及特定非公務機關應建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15379.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15405.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
資通安全事件通報機制並配合主管機關並期實施應變演練以提高應變能力公務機關及特定非公務機關發生資通安全事件時應立即通報主管機關並於一定時限內提交事件報告包含事件原因影響範圍及處置措施主管機關得視事件之嚴重性調度其他機關資通安全人員資源應變處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15408.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15421.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
第十八條原條文 第十五條出委員葛如君 沈博洋 賴瑞榮 王俊憲羅美 林秋若華等提案外期與行政院提案 台灣民眾黨黨團委員提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15423.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15441.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
均為第18條公務機關應符合其資通安全責任等級資要求設置資通安全專職人員辦理資通安全業務及應變處理所屬人員辦理資通安全業務績效優良者應予獎勵資安署應妥善規劃推動專職人員資職能訓練增進其資通安全專業職能欲有重大資通安全實踐資安署的調度各級機關資 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15453.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15462.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
支通安全人員支援之前兩項人員獎勵職能訓練調度資源及其他相關事項辦法由主管機關定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15464.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15481.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
委員葛如君等提案第19條在第一項的後段修正為並定期舉辦或鼓勵所屬人員參與知通安全自相關專業訓練第二項以及第三項文之內容為主管機關應妥善規劃並加強推動專職人員自專業訓練增建其知通安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15490.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15500.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
專業職能 第一項人員辦理職通安全業務績效優良者應為獎勵 其獎勵辦法由主管機關訂製系文字同行政院提案委員葛如軍等提案第20條 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15503.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15523.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
日有重大資通安全事件 主管機關得盡與調度各級機關資通安全人員資源之其調度資源及相關事項辦法由主管機關定之委員審柏洋等提案第18條公務機關應符合其資通安全責任等級之要求設置專職資通安全人員辦理資通安全業務及應變處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15526.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15544.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
資通安全業務績效平和 遊覽者應為獎勵資通署應妥善規劃推動專職人員資職能訓練 增進其資通安全專業資能 欲有重大資通安全事件資安署得敬禮調度各級機關資通安全人員資源之前兩項人員調度資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15548.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15567.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
績效平和獎勵及職能訓練相關事項之辦法由主管機關定之委員賴日榮等提案第18條在第一項中段修正為設置專職資通安全人員辦理資通安全業務及應變處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15570.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15593.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
第二項的默劇修正為資安署的禁語調度各級機關資通安全人員資源制第三項文字內容為前兩項人員績效平和獎勵職能訓練及調度資源相關四項辦法由主管機關定制其餘文字同行正面提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15596.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15619.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
委員林俊憲等提案第十八條列項默劇修正為資安署的禁語調度各級機關自動安全人員資源制第三項前兩項人員調度資源機效平和獎勵職能訓練及其他相關四項辦法由主管機關定制其文字同行政院提案委員羅美玲等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15624.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15653.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
第十八條公務機關及特定非公務機關應配置專責資通安全人員負責機關內置資通安全管理應變及風險防範等工作主管機關得視國家安全需要對資通安全專職人員進行是任性查核以確保其符合資通安全之專業標準必要使得指定人員接受相關專業訓練或取得認證委員區入伙等提案第十八條 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15654.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15671.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
第三項的中段調度資源後面徵訂原額兩個文字其餘文字同行政院提案委內瑞隆林郡縣等提案第三章張明均未修正同縣行張明徵訂第十九條 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15673.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15699.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
除台湾民众党党团提案外期与行政院提案委员提案均为第19条公务机关于必要时得对所属支通安全专职人员之试验性进行查核主管机关得与支通安全人员任用考试榜试后对录取人员之试验性进行查核拒绝查核或前两项查核结果经用人机关认定未通过者不得办理 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15700.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15712.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
設計國家機密軍事機密及國防機密之通安全業務行政人員職務得由用人機關基於內部管理及業務運作需要依法進行調整第一項及第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15715.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15731.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
查核記錄由用人機關依相關規定保密處理並託為保管不得遺註他用違反者是情節與益處有關查核權者機關應受查核人員查核程序內容及其他相關事項是辦法由主管機關會商有關機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15736.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15749.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團提案第19條條文中查核兩個文字前面多定安全兩個文字其餘均同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15750.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15766.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
第三章章名各提案均為修整同線型章名第二十條原條文第十六條除委員葛禄君沈伯陽陳樹越等提案外其餘行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團委員提案均為 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15768.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15791.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
在第一項的部分中段修正為指定特定關鍵基礎設施提供者後段修正為送由主管機關報請行政院核定並以書面通知受核定者第二項的聚首增訂特定兩個文字中段 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15792.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15809.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
修正為通知通安全責任等級之要求設置知通安全專職人員等文字第三項的聚首徵定特定兩個文字第四項中段修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15812.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15839.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
主管機關應綜合考量鎖管特定關鍵基礎設施提供者業務之重要性與精密性知通系統之規模性質知通安全事件發生之頻率程度及其他與知通安全相關之因素定期集合其知通安全維護計畫之實施情形六項 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15841.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15868.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
聚首徵定特定兩個文字中段修正為維護計畫實施情形有缺失或帶改善者後段修正為應向中央目的事業主管機關提出改善報告第六項文字內容為中央目的事業主管機關應依資安署指定指方式將計合結果及改善報告送交資安署 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15870.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15893.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
文革如君等提案第22條第一項的中段修正為指定關鍵資通基礎設施提供者第二項的聚首修正為關鍵資通基礎設施提供者第三項也是聚首關鍵資通基礎設施提供者 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15894.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15918.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
第五項也是聚首關鍵自動接觸設施提供者第六項前段修正為中央目的事業主管機關應依主管機關指定之七日文字同行正面提案委員沈柏洋等提案第十九條中央目的事業主管機關應徵學相關公務機關民間團體專家學者意見後擬定關鍵基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15923.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15950.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
事實提供之指定清單報請行政院核定以書面通知之其指定基準費指條件及程序由中央目的事業主管機關公告之文審博揚等提案第20條除第一項第二項第四項聚首沒有特定兩個文字外其餘同行政院提案的第二項第三項以及第五項 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15953.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15969.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
委員陳樹悅等提案第二十條 第二項中段修正為設置直通安全專職人員負責推動機關內治安相關事務第四項前段修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15971.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15993.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
中央目的事業主管機關應定期綜合考量其文字同行政院提案第21條原條文第17條除委員葛如君、沈伯陽、賴瑞榮、陳樹越、林俊憲等提案外請與行政院提案、台灣民眾黨黨團委員提案均為 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15996.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
16009.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
第一項 聚首修正為特定關鍵基礎設施中段修正為應符合其所屬資通安全責任等機制要求設置資通安全專職人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
16013.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
16032.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
第四項修正為重要目的是業主管機關因依資安署指定之方式將集合結果及改善報告送交資安署除以上修正外其文字均同進行條文委員葛如軍等提案第23條 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
16035.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
16056.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
第四項修正後文字內容為中央陸地事業主管機關應依主管機關指定之方式將集合結果及改善報告送交主管機關其餘同行政院提案委員沈伯陽等提案第21條第一項聚首文字修正為關鍵基礎設施提供者 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
16061.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
16073.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
七文字同行政院提案 委內容等提案第二十一條同委員沈伯陽等提案文成數月等提案第二十一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
16076.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
16097.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
第一項中斷後文字內容為因自資通安全長由特定非公務機關之代表人管理人其他有代表權人或其子派自適當人員擔任負責推動及監督機關內資通安全相關事務第二項的據守修正為前項之特定非公務機關中斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
16100.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
16122.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
中段修正後文字為設置之通安全專職人力並考量其所其所保有或處理之資訊種類第五項文字內容為中央目的事業主管機關應依資安署指定之方式將結合結果及改善報告送交資安署 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
16126.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16149.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
維寧眷縣等16人提案第21條一項的據守文字內容沒有修正為關鍵基礎設施提供者其餘文字同行政院提案第22條原條文第16條第6項 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16156.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16183.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
除委員沈伯陽賴銳榮等提案外其餘行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團委員提案均為前兩條前兩條自動安全維護計畫之必要事項實施情形之提出集合自評例內容與方法結果之交互改善報告之提出及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央陸地事業主管機關擬定報由主管機關核定委員沈伯陽等提案第22條 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16185.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16207.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
第20條及前條之支通安全維護計劃必要事項實施情形之提出集合之頻率則定基準程序與方法結果之交互改善報告之提出及其他應遵循事項的辦法由中央目的事業主管機關擬定報由主管機關核定為內容等提案第22條 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16210.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16220.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
據首修正委前兩條資通安全維護計畫必要事項其與同委員沈伯陽等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16221.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16245.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
中令第23條各提案文字均為第23條特定非公務機關應至知通安全長由特定非公務機關之代表人管理人其他有代表權人或其指派之適當人員擔任負責推動及監督機關內知通安全相關事務 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16247.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16266.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
第24條原條文第18條除委員葛如君、沈博洋、賴瑞榮、陳述、岳林俊憲、台灣民眾黨黨團等提案外期與行政院提案委員提案均為在第三項的部分默劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16268.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16294.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
修正為並應送交資安署第四項文字內容修正為前三項通報與應變機制之必要四項通報內容報告之提出送交演練作業及其他應遵循事項這辦法由主管機關定之第五項中央目的事業主管機關或資安署自吸重大資通安全事件時得提供相關協助於適當時機並得公告與 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16295.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16311.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
事件相關之必要內容及因應措施其五文字 同性行條文 文革如捐等提案第二書五條第五項修正為 中央目的事業主管機關或主管機關自息重大資通安全事件時應提供特定 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16312.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16340.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
非公務機關相關協助並得於適當時機公告與事件相關之必要內容及因應措施其文字同行正面提案委員審撥樣等提案第24條第5項後段修正為得提供特定非公務機關相關協助並於適當時機得公告與事件相關之必要內容及因應措施其文字同行正面提案委員內容等提案第24條同委員審 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16341.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16363.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
伯陽提案委員陳樹越等提案第23條第4項的後段修正為送交資安演練與調度資源作業等文字第5項聚首修正為中央目的事業主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16363.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16378.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
或資安署等文字中斷修正為需提供相關協助於適當時期並公告與事件相關資必要內容及因應措施其餘文字同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16381.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16401.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
為林郡縣等提案第24條同委員同委員沈博洋提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第24條在第5項的部分中段修正為應提供相關協助其文字同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16402.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16419.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
政令第25條除委員葛儒、君審、博洋、賴銳龍、林俊憲等提案外其與行政院提案、台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員提案軍委第25條中央目的事業主管機關為調查特定非公務機關發聲重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16423.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16439.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
知通安全事件得以下列程序辦理一通知當事人或關係人到場陳述意見二通知當事人及關係人提出獨立第三方機構出具制鑑識或調查報告三判員委任或委任 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16440.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16452.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
或委託其他機關苟前往當事人及關係人之處所實施必要之檢查前向鎖定關係人以該項特定非公務機關委託辦理資通系統之建置為運貨資通 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16455.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16477.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
服務提供之受託者且與重大自通安全事件相關者違憲受調查者對於重要目的是主管機關以第一項所為之調查不得規避妨礙或拒絕執行調查之人員因出示有關執行職務之這名文件其未出示者受調查者而拒絕之第一項第三款受委 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16477.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16489.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
任或委託之機關苟對於辦理事務任務受託事務所獲悉特定非公務機關之秘密不得洩漏文革如君等提案第26條 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16493.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16512.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
徵訂第六項文字內容為中央目的事業主管機關為調查特定被公務機關發生之重大資安致通安全事件請求主管機關協助時主管機關應提供其所需求之相關協助其文字同行政院提案委員審柏洋等提案第25條 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16515.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16527.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
第一項的前短修正為中央目的事業主管機關為辦理特定非公務機關發生重大支通安全事件之調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16531.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16558.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
第二項第二項的前段修正為以第一項特定非公務機關委託辦理自通系統自建制其文字同行政院提案委員賴日榮等提案第25條同委員沈伯陽提案委員林俊憲等提案第25條也是同委員沈伯陽提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16563.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16579.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
委員羅美玲等提案徵定第25條公務機關及特定非公務機關未依本法規定落實制通安全管理措施經主管機關集合後仍未改正者主管機關的依情情節輕重於處分處分方式包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16580.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16606.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
但不限於警告罰款及公布違規單位名稱等若違規情節重大主管機關得將其列入考核並追究相關責任人之管理責任增訂第26條各提案條文內容均為特定非公務機關對於屬屬人員辦理資通安全業務績效優良者應予獎勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16608.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16634.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
徵令第27條 除委員葛如君 沈博洋 黃姐 林俊憲 臺灣民眾黨黨團提案外期與行政院提案委員提案均為第27條 重要目的事業主管機關對特定非公務機關下載安裝或使用危害國家自通安全產品的予以限制或禁止特定非公務機關自行或為外經 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16635.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16659.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
或委外營運場所提供公眾視聽或使用之傳播設備及網際網路接取服務與維護資通安全之必要時一同但業務需求且無其他替代方案者經該特定非公務機關資通安全長核可含報中央目的事業主管機關核定後得以專案方式使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16660.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16676.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
並類測管理 前項對特定非公務機關限制或禁止使用危害國家自通安全產品資管控措施由中央目的事業主管機關訂定 報主管機關備查文革如君等人提案第28條 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16682.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16706.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
在第一項的中段文字內容為特定非公務機關自行或為外營運場所一同其文字同行支援提案委員審撥樣等提案第26條特定非公務機關不得採購及使用危害國家自通安全產品亦不得採購及使用大陸地區香港澳門境外 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16706.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16725.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
抵對設立或實質控制各類組織、機構、團體或人員提供自通服務、系統及設備及自行或外管理、提供公眾活動或使用之場地一同擔應業務需求且無其他替代方案者經機關自通安全長和可 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16726.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16746.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
韓報主管機關核定後等以專案方式構置並列冊管理特定非公務人員或配置業務用資通訊設備不得下載安裝或使用危害國家資通安全產品亦不得下載安裝或使用大陸地區香港澳門境外敵對勢力或其所設立或實質控制之各類組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16750.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16762.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
機構、團體或人員提供之知通、服務及自通系統並應遵守相關法令規範特定非公務機關得向主管機關查詢第一項產品及其廠商為黃結等提案第27條 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16763.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16792.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
主要目的是業主管機關對特定非公務機關採購下載安裝或使用危害國家資通安全產品或採購及使用陸資廠商或大陸地區香港澳門境外敵對設立或其所設立或實質控制之各類組織機構團體或人民提供資資通服務系統及設備的予以限制或禁止以下同行這邊提案文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16795.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16825.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
委員林俊憲等提案第27條中央目的事業主管機關對特定非公務機關下載安裝或使用危害國家安全之自通安全產品或下載安裝或採購及使用依國家安全法第二條規定之大陸地區香港澳門境外敵對勢力及其所設立或實施控制之各類組織機構團體或其派遣之人提供之自通安全服務及產品的予以限制或 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16825.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16853.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
禁止特定非公務機關自行或國外營運場所提供公眾視聽或使用之傳播設備及網際網路接取服務與維護自通安全之必要時一同但因業務需求且無其他替代方案者經該特定非公務機關自通安全掌和可函報重要目的世界主管機關合併後得以專案方式使用並內徹管理前向對特定非公務機關限制或使用時 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16854.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16882.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
或禁止使用危害國家安全之滋通安全產品依國家安全法第二條規定之大陸地區香港澳門境外敵對勢力及其所設立或實時控制之各類組織機構團體或其派遣之人提供之滋通安全服務及產品之管控措施由中央目的事業主管機關訂定報主管機關備查台灣民眾黨黨團提案序文的默劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16884.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16905.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
為並列冊管理及遵守下列規定 第一款至第三款文字內容為一 應指定特定區域及特定人員使用且不得傳播影像或聲音供不特定人士直接收視或收聽 二 控制理由消失或使用連線介面應立即銷毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16908.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16933.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
3.其他中央目的事業主管機關指定事項其餘文字同行政院提案第4張張明各提案均為修正同現行張明第28條原條文第19條除委員沈伯陽賴瑞榮等提案外其餘行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團委員提案均為在第一項的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16935.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16956.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
文治內容為公務機關所屬人員未依本法規定辦理者應按其情節輕重依相關規定予以懲戒或懲處針對第三項特定非公務機關所屬人員未依本法規定辦理情節重大者由特定非公務機關依規定予以懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16959.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16987.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
為沈博洋等提案第27條被修正為內容等提案第28條第三項文字內容為特定非公務機關所屬人員為依本法規定辦理情節重大者由特定非公務機關予以懲處其由目的事業主管機關或主管機關參與者應將懲處內容報目的事業主管機關被查其五文字同行正願提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16989.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
17004.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
第29條原條文第21條初委員葛禄君審博洋陳樹越台灣民眾黨黨團等提案外其餘行政院提案委員提案軍委在前段的部分條文修正為第24條 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
17006.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
17020.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
其餘文字統新型條文 文革如軍等提案第31條前段的條文修正為第25條 其餘文字統新型條文委員審柏洋等提案第29條 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
17023.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
17045.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
在中段修正在中段有增訂文字或違反第26條第2項有關使用資通服務資通系統之規定及文字同行政院提案文成數月等提案第29條在前段的部分提案文修正為第23條台灣民眾黨黨團提案第29條在 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
17051.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
17053.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
前段的條文修正為第24條 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
17056.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
17084.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
後段後段的罰緩修正為新台幣30萬元以上1000萬元以下罰緩其文字同性性條文第30條原條文第20條除委員葛如君沈伯陽賴瑞龍黃傑成數月等提案外其餘行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團委員提案均為 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
17086.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
17088.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
在第一款 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
17091.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
17103.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
第一款的條文部分依序修正為第20條、第21條、第22條第二款條文依序修正為第20條、第21條、第22條第三款的條文依序修正為第8條第2項、第20條第5項或第21條第3項 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
17117.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
17146.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
以及中段的第22條第4款條文依序修正為第24條以及中段的第24條第5款修正文字為為第24條第3項規定向中央目的事業主管機關提出或向資安署送交資通安全事件之調查處理及改善報告或違反第24條第4項鎖定辦法中有關報告提出送交資規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
17147.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
17169.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
第6款修正違反第24條第4項鎖定辦法中有關通報內容迎面作業之規定文革如軍等提案第30條在第1款的條文依序修正第22條第23條第24條第2款的條文依序修正第22條第23條第24條第3款的條文依序修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
17176.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
17178.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
第8條第2項第22條第5項第23條第3項中段修正為第24條第4款條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
17189.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
17207.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
前段跟中段均修正為第25條第5款前段條文修正為第25條中段文字修正為互相主管機關送交之通安全事件之調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
17208.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
17224.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
後段條文修正為第25條 莫具修正為送交之規定第6款前段條文修正為第25條 莫具修正為有關通報內容 演練作業之規定 維生撥養等提案第28條在第3條 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
17230.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17239.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
在第三在第三款的部分後段修正中段修正為第20條第4項 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17243.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17265.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
然後徵訂第7款文字內容違反第26條第1項有關使用採購資通服務資通系統及資通設備之規定其文字統行志願提案違反內容等提案第29條在第3款的部分中段徵訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17267.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17284.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
知安署 等文字第五款的中段修正為向中央目的試驗主管機關或知安署提交資通安全事件之調查其文字同行政院提案委員黃婕等提案第30條 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17287.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17305.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
徵訂第七款文字內容違規違反第27條第二項對特定非公務機關限制或禁止使用危害國家資通安全產品之管控措施其餘文字同行政院提案文程序列等提案第28條 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17309.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17323.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
在續文的部分罰款修正為按次處新代幣20萬元以上然後徵訂第一款文字內容為1 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17325.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17339.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
一為一第20條第2項或第21條第1項第2項規定設置直通安全長期資安專職人員資規定以下各款 第1 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17342.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17365.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
第五款條文裡面的條次依序修正為第23條以及中段的第23條第六款前段條次修正為第23條中段條次也是修正第23條第七款修正為違反第23條第四項鎖定辦法中有關通報內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17367.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17381.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
資安演練與調度資源作業之規定 增訂第31條 中委員葛禄君 陳旭瑞等提案外 其餘行政院提案 台灣民眾黨黨團委員提案均為 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17385.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17397.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
第31條違反第25條第3項規定規避妨礙或拒絕調查者由中央目的事業主管機關處心台幣10萬元以上100萬元以下罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17400.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17429.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
委員葛如君等提案第32條前段的條次修正為第26條其餘文字同行政院提案委員陳淑月等提案第30條前段的條次修正為第24條其餘文字同行政院提案第5張張明各提案均未修正同縣行張明第32條原條文第6條除委員葛如君沈伯陽奈月容等提案外 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17430.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17443.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
其餘行政院提案、台灣民眾黨黨團委員提案均為在第一項的部分前段將或委託等文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17444.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17471.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
以及中斷法人或團體等文字予以刪除政變第二項資安署得委託其他公務機關辦理國家資通安全防護演練集合及其他資通安全相關事務第二項第一為第三項前段修正為前兩項受委託後據莫修正為所知悉之秘密 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17473.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17493.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
政令第四項文字內容為特定非公務機關之業務涉及數個重要目的事業主管機關之權者主管機關的協調指定其中一個或數個重要目的事業主管機關單獨或共同辦理本法所定重要目的事業主管機關應辦理之事項委員個如均等提案第三十三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17495.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17522.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
在第一項的在第一項的部分也是前段或委託等文字予以刪除第二項修正後文字為前項受委託之公務機關不得洩漏辦理相關事務過程中所窒息之秘密跟第三項文字內容為特定非公務機關之業務涉及數個重要目的是主管機關之權者主管機關的協調指定 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17524.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17538.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
其中一個或數個中央目的事業主管機關單獨或共同辦理本法所定中央目的事業主管機關辦理之事項委員審博洋等提案第31條主管機關未辦理自通安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17539.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17559.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
整體防護國際交流合作及其他自通安全相關事務 得委託所監督行政法人 其他公務機關法人或團體為之支安署為辦理國家自通安全防護演練集合及其他自通安全相關事務得委託其他公務機關法人或團體為之公務機關為辦理第15條第一項 第20條 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17561.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17586.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
第三項之幾何事項都委託所屬機關或委託其他公務機關法人或團體為之前三項受委任委託或負委託自公務機關法人或團體不得洩漏辦理相關事務過程中所窒息之秘密委內容等提案第32條同委員沈伯央等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17593.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17620.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
維林郡縣等提案第32條主管機關為辦理資通安全整體防護國際交流合作及其他資通安全相關事務得委託其他公務機關為之 治安署為辦理國家資通安全防護演練及其他資通安全相關事務得委託其他公務機關為之第三項以及第四項同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17627.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17653.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
政定第33條 除委員沈伯陽、賴銳龍、林俊憲提案外其餘行政院提案、台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員提案均為第33條本法鎖定資通安全事件涉及個人資料外洩時公務機關及特定非公務機關應另依個人資料保護法及其相關法令規定辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17655.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17684.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
委員沈博洋等提案第32條在中段的部分有多檔案兩個文字涉及個人資料檔案外泄式其餘文字同行政院提案委員賴銳榮等提案第33條同委員沈博洋提案委員林俊憲等提案第33條也是同委員沈博洋提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17685.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17697.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
委林俊憲等提案第五章張明負責第34條原條文第22條各提案條文內容均未修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17699.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17726.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
第35條原條文第23條除台灣民眾黨黨團提案外期與行政院提案委員提案均為本法施行日期由行政院定之台灣民眾黨黨團提案第35條第一項未修正第二項修正為本法中華民國某年某月某日修正公佈之條文自公佈後六個月施行宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17737.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17744.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
宣讀完畢 本日會議作以下決議討論事項個案均另定期繼續審查本日會議結束 散會 |