| IVOD_ID |
16619 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16619 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-22-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-24T08:30:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-24T12:19:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:48:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d730853615cfad2720f9a65472a0a5ac3bd9360bdedb085221810ff8043ceee615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
(4月23日及24日二天一次會)） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:46 - 12:19:00 |
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報告委員會現在繼續開會今天的議程是邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明珍列席報告業務概況必備質詢首先我們來介紹在場的委員還沒有到場那我們先來介紹與會的官員我們核能安全委員會主任委員陳明珍核安會副主委張欣張副主委主任秘書王崇德 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1916.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1938.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
還有我們核安會輻射偵測中心陳志平主任綜合規劃組李啟思組長核安管制組高彬組長輻射防護組張淑君組長保安應變組黃俊元組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1944.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1972.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
核物料管制组陈文权组长秘书是邱清威主任组织是何云英主任正风是张文豪主任人事是曾义乔科长还有我们原子能科技研究院高子木院长 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1981.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1987.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
好 那我們現在就來請我們河安會陳主任委員來進行報告報告時間8分鐘這邊這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2008.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2028.461 |
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主席各位委員女士先生大家好今天很榮幸代表核能安全委員會並協同各單位主管向大院進行業務報告首先向大院委員對本會各項工作的支持及指教至上敬意及謝誠 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2030.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2050.841 |
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核安会为我国独立的核能安全管制机关独立行使原子能安全管制工作以下请就强化原子能安全管制等四项工作重点进行报告进行委员不论指教首先在强化原子能安全管制部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2052.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2078.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本会持续对国内核电厂执行各项安全审查及现场视察并透过召开管制会议方式与台电就核电厂安全运作相关议题进行沟通讨论督促台电参照国际经验采行相关精进措施以确保运转及除异核能机组运作安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2081.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2087.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
在放射性廢棄物安全管制上本會與監督台電完成合一場室外幹處熱測室作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2090.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2114.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
目前正审查运转执照申请而核二厂室外宽储于1月开始兴建本会定期派员查核以确保兴建品质此外本会严格执行低放弃物设施运作及国员院研究用反应器处理至安全管制工作做好安全把关 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2115.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2144.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
在强化辐射灾害整备作业部分本会持续透过视察核电厂办理核灾演习及推动国际交流合作等方式强化辐射灾害整备作业今年核安演习已规划于核三厂及其临近地区举行此外本会与美国能源部合作办理大规模辐射灾害应变训练强化管制技术能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2147.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2168.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
在高强度辐射设施及移动型辐射源的管理上1973年合法一座医用高强度止死治疗设施完成130件放射线照相检验业工地不预警稽查并研发移动型辐射源科技监控技术 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2169.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2185.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
在推动辐射医疗曝露品质上,完成全国403部修改用X光及屏保审查,办理11场护理学校讲习,及规划建置自主学习网,强化辐射安全智能。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2188.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2200.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
在全国环境辐射监测方面针对全国放射性落成食品饮用水及核设施周围环境等113年完成检测5611件 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2202.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2224.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
分析结果无异常情形同时全年无需稳定运作全台63座环境辐射签热站监测结果无异常情形此外协助食药署就进口食品进行边境管制辐射检测每年提供7万件以上检测能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2226.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2249.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因应日本寒川废水排放事件本会持续跨部会合作进行海域监测113年已完成4616件次制样品取样机检测作业飞机结果无异常情形114年将持续监测逾4700件次此外亦已 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2250.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2274.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
提升国内生物栓检测能量能从每年500件提升至2000件落实监控海域辐射安全接下来报告原子能科技创新部分在拓展国际交流并进展核子保防义务部分持续与美国日本等相关 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2275.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2294.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
核安管制机构定期召开会议交流同时因应我国首次执行甘主任热测室作业本会及其与IAEA及台电协调成功促成IAEA配合我方骑乘多次赴现场检查确保符合核子保防要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2297.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2321.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
在推动社会沟通及原子能科普教育部分设立全民参与事务咨询会针对社会关注的核安管制议题之沟通模式邀请咨询委员给予指导与建议另以原子能科普进行社会沟通积极与其他单位合作以多元管道扩大原子能科普咨询之传播 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2323.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2331.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
為推動原子能科技民生應用並培育跨領域研發人才本會與國科會共同建立跨部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2333.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2357.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
合作管道113年补助学研机构执行59项原子能科技专题研究计划其中本会补助之34项计划共养成12个跨领域合作团队并培育学术博士人才72名114年亦持续与国科会共同补助64项计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2359.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2381.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因應產業要求本會補助國原院執行各項計畫建立原子能關鍵技術並配合國家近年轉型至本土核電廠除以自主技術政策發展能源及核後端技術在建立原子能關鍵技術方面國原院積極推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2383.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2398.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
多类科家肝功能造影剂临床试验以协助肝癌病患人进行直死治疗前后肝功能评估另以创新技术成功开发 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2399.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2412.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
深化因感光層關鍵材料顯著提升品質與性能且具備低成本優勢可廣泛應用於國防安全與民生領域的熱影像感測器 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2414.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2436.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
在发展能源及核核核端技术方面国园院运用核设施清理经验及技术建立本土厨艺技术自主能力并配合政府能源转型政策开发电网韧性分析及绿能技术包括完成电网视觉化脆弱分析工具大面积 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2438.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2455.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
金属支持日成型燃料电池化国产高效能除湿轮等促进能源技术本土化为接轨新制线核能技术本会补助国营院进行SMR |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2456.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2470.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
相关先期研究评估SMR安全特性并延续核电人才培育此外国人院执行词约出高温电浆研究整合型计划以完成国内首座TOKMAK型 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2472.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2498.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
实现装置的细部设计进入建造阶段此计划皆以为自主开发提升我国合融和技术的自主研发能力本会将依法独立行使之前持续执行核能辐射及放射性物料安全管制工作同时精进原子能科技研发拓展相关民生运用并落实资讯公开及公众参与 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2498.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2510.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
以增进民生福祉及环境永续以上报告不尽之处进行委员指教谢谢好谢谢谢谢主委的口头报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2514.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2521.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
每位初席委員諮詢6分鐘列席委員諮詢時間為4分鐘發言人登記結束時間為上午10點30分委員如果臨時提案也請於上午10點30分前提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2532.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2547.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
並與本會委員、范雲委員質詢結束後及進行處理處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場原例不予處理首先我們請發言登記第一位柯智恩委員進行質詢謝謝周阿偉 我們是不是請陳主委好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2561.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2581.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
主委好你好主委好你这是应该是上任之后第一次上台备选吗是的好我们来看一下因为你过去来说你在2022年的时候曾经有一个媒体的投书你认为我们绿能是严重的落后所以说在核电厂跟部分火力发电厂陆迅群下 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2582.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2610.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
很担心这个所谓的这个供电不稳所以建议我们非核家运应该延长到2035年主委你这样的过去的说法你现在还认同吗谢谢委员当时时空背景是第四接收站环境没有通过对了所以我说你现在还是认不认为应该延到2035对您过去的说法你像是反驳还是继续延续 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2614.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2640.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
这是属于国家的这也是国安的议题了我认为这个能源问题也是国安议题我当然知道我在问你说你现在还赞不赞成你2022年媒体投书的说法你认为担心这个电力的不稳定所以你认为非核家园应该延到2035我现在只问一个非常单纯的问题对你过去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2641.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2651.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
的论点你现在还认为应该持续呢还是如何行为稍微耐心一点稍微简单说明一下你认不认同只有一句话 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2654.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2679.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
对于你2035应该延到2035你过去2020是你投书的当然如果这样讲好了我只有六分钟一到2035年的话可以减轻我们这些压力是真的可以减轻我们的压力嘛对不对所以你认为说2035可能是一个虽然目前为止我们和三也要除异了我现在只是希望主委你过去根据你的专业你是难得一个我们和工背景然后站在这个位置上面我觉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2679.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2707.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
这个东西你要为你自己过去的言论来做一个背书因为呢我们知道你也特别提到因为能源政策是一个国家最上位的一个政策嘛那你遇到瓶颈的时候嘛你就必须要懂得一个变通然后呢所以我才会特别问您这句话你到底能够为新的核能做哪一些的努力这是我今天问的部分所以你的回应是什么新能源是吧我是说你是不是到目前为止任务的能源政策是不是应该还有更具有弹性变通的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2710.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2737.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
这个是需要各方讨论的我讲我们也说过这个要核安核废料可以得到安全处置这个部分那个主委这个东西蓝绿从过去到现在都一直在核安跟核废料这两个问题在做一些讨论所以不容您多赘述我只是要跟您特别的问一下因为我们都认为能源政策非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2737.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2756.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
目前来说也非常多新的核能技术不断在发展但是很显然目前只有你们的国研院正在执行跟国科会有关的和融合的基础的研究中研院甚至表示他们并没有这样的一个能量来做新核能的研究但是你稍微看一下我是为你们在教区我们你们的国研院 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2758.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2764.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
找了這麼多的專家結果你們第一期的計畫只有1133萬整體計畫也只有3500萬第二期更不要講也其實只有6000萬到7000萬以你的專業的判斷你覺得國家投入這些資源可以跟得上國際的腳步嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2776.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2792.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我们确实需要加大脚步投资你这个加大脚步加大到多少美国每年投资大概是251亿中国大陆大概是投资472亿我们目前为止最多大概就是7000万这个已经不是加大角度了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2793.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2807.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以就可以顯示當政府不但告訴我們這是有很多的彈性我們也很希望有很多新的技術可是顯現在一個數字上面來說你會發現它是完全沒有在這一塊面要多做努力的郭院長高院長你應該也同意吧你這些經費來說的話報告那個立委我們事實上合龍河這個技術你認為錢夠不夠嗎你們講太多了我時間很有限我先說明一下這個技術應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2823.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2838.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
近10年到20年應該不可能會產生所以這樣的經費就夠了目前投入研發適當的經費這樣就夠了所以說美國核融核的這個研究你們看到之後你都不覺得這個部分裡面政府應該追上他們的腳步 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2839.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2866.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好OK然后呢特别是当全世界都在对这个所谓的新的核能技术展开的时候我们需要非常多的人才我特别提到嘛很多时候呢像过去有很多的这个企业界大佬还有特别提到的过去清大和工系是相当认为这是主委你当初毕业的可惜在场有非常多勤大的现在目前来说呢光是要招生都非常的困难而且你们还改了一个名字这个名字说实在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2867.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2884.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
叫做工程与系统科学系就是不要把合工这两个字放出来以前在我那个年代是私商还是非常多人愿意学习的然后你看我们再看下面所以具有美国官方背景的爱德哈国家实验室到了我们这个系栏里面 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2885.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2910.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
他甚至开出了美金九万五千大概月薪二十四万五千的台币想要来挖掘我们的人才所以说呢你会发现特别是我想诸位你也知道你过去来说合工背景的过去沉寂一段时间但是最近是实在是非常的热门当我们的人才培养好当你完全没有的时候以后万一真的有任何核能或是新的技术在家你要再把这些人才找 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2911.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2917.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
回来已经是不太容易了所以说主委你面对这样状况你难道不会有任何一点感触吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2919.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2929.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
確實我們核能人才過去二線流失的很多確實我們要這社會要加強包括你的經費你自己的說法你的各方面你如何能夠說服這些人我們要加強人才更不要說之前我也問到了可能台電要撤裁這個核發處然後呢他馬上澄清說沒有他們只是來做一個工作內容調整我再一次去了解以後他們就是打算把 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2946.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2965.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
核发处跟核能技术出来合并很多人除了继续做这个厨艺工作之外多余的人力都会把转到大潭新达电厂核工专业的人被丢到火力电厂主委你身为一个核工人难道你不会对这样的状况有任何觉得要为核工人说几句话吗这是核工人的风骨哎 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2970.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2985.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
確實我們的核能方面的人才有嚴重的斷層不管是各方面從台電也好 原能會也好都有嚴重斷層確實我們需要加強這方面人才培育第二我們要盡量保持 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2986.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3004.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
先有人你能保持下来不要再不让他再流失你连你连这个河安你连河南会被降到四级然后呢很多地方大家就想这样的一个单位每次问到你们这个部分你们只是在把这个河岸我最后讲那个赵伟再给我一分钟就很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3005.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3029.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
核核三厂的研议的问题我还是要强调这是问到这个郭智慧经济部长的时候他说必须遵照40年的一个规范这没有问题大家都知道所以我们当初只是希望能够更有弹性的一个做法但是很显然目前蓝绿都没有共识第二个核三二号机燃料池不足要解决这个问题这是经济部长所提到的要解决也解决燃料池的问题但是我问了 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3030.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3044.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我特别发寒去问的结果告诉我们燃料池上有空间而且呢室内干储场即将要招标不管你要不要厨艺不管你有没有研艺说实在的室内的干式储存厂就是一定要干没错吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3045.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3052.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
所以不要用這兩個理由來告訴我們沒有這兩個理由解決沒有辦法往下走事實上他把這些所有的問題要嘛就丟給你們和安會要嘛就丟給地方事實上呢這兩個問題都不會是問題因為從林全院長開始就已經告訴大家室內乾式儲存場本來就是要設立不管有沒有廚藝所以剛剛郭志輝部長所講的那兩個問題其實只是來顯示政府不斷的告訴我們有彈性的空間但是呢他們一點都不想做你同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3076.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3089.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
還是我的話講太快你還要消化一下其他人可以幫忙回應一下有誰要回應一下這樣我才可以結束這次質詢啊誰可以回應一下對於郭部長所講的那個問題放回郭部長講的那兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3096.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3117.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
台電必須遵照推給你們和安會必須要燃料池空間不足推給地方事實上燃料池目前空間還夠還可以用四年然後呢要地方支持興建乾式儲存不管有沒有廚藝都要興建乾式儲存這個是已經確定從林全院長開始就已經確定要建立了對我們是需要乾式儲存毫無問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3120.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3124.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
主委我真的覺得你可能需要在這樣的一個訊息上面可能需要多一點努力否則從我後面那幾個委員上台質詢的時候呢可怕都沒有辦法達到他們最需要的好我綜合最後我們需要更多的河岸人才我們需要更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3137.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3158.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
很多的核能技术的这样子的一个所谓的前置的一个作业然后呢我们更是需要有更正确的讯息来告诉我们到底未来我们新式的核能到底有没有机会再往前走这是主委你身为一个核工背景的人应该为你后面的这样子的背景来做一个最大的一个认证跟背书可以吗谢谢谢谢委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3162.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3172.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
好 謝謝柯之恩委員主委請回主委 你這種出登場的表現實在是不盡人意好 再來我們請葛如君召委好 謝謝主席有請何安慧主委好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3202.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3217.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
主委好我們打起精神好不好台灣需要電我們也需要核能安全都需要這個拜託您我們來多一點交流有鑑於核三廠二號機再過不到一個月也許就要停機了 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3217.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3244.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那關於核管法的討論呢在立法院第一會期呢其實已經排過巡達那本席呢也在3月19號有召開公聽會並且在3月31號進行實質審查目前核管法以第六條為主以及臨時修正動議呢都已經送出委員會那本席接下來呢就會召開協商然而在協商之前呢本席想跟主委確認一個事實就是即便修法通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3245.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3270.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
演繹也仍先待台電送出評估報告後再經核安會審核同意才能演繹我們這個理解沒有錯吧是的是嗎因為現在坊間有一些謠傳說我們很暴力修法啦罔顧核安啦就是我們修法通過以後還是很重視安全嘛台電也要先送報告嘛核安會也先要同意嘛 對吧是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3271.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3298.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
是嘛謝謝主委這樣子一個說法否則的話我想民眾可能會有一個誤會每一次研議的時候可能都會說有安全疑慮等等我想這樣其實不是很理性我想修法只是在幫政府解開法律的限制至於是否要研議其實也要看台電的決定還有和安會的評估那我繼續請教主委經濟部在4月初已經核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3298.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3320.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
放射性廢棄物處置辦公室的主任那依據經濟部的規劃後續呢將著手朝你高階核廢料的選址辦法並且目標要在今年的下半年來預告並且在年底的時候送行政院審查您身為核能的大家長核能安全的總顧問有給經濟部什麼樣的建議嗎核能 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3328.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3349.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這個核廢料的安全處置一般是最好基於國際的經驗最好得到地方的支持就是因為叫Local Consent所以核安會現在跟這個辦公室之間的關係是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3351.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3375.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
這個我們本來河安應該是以河安會為主嘛那現在這個放射性廢棄物處置專案辦公室又把它成立起來那河安會現在跟這個辦公室之間的溝通是怎麼樣有決策衝突的時候比如說你說以Local為主他覺得不是或者你覺得Local已經同意了他說Local沒有同意如果有決策衝突的時候誰的意見為主啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3376.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3400.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我們請陳署長回答報告委員 河安會跟經濟部的在河費管理這塊的分工他們是執行單位 我們是安全管制單位他們要設的這個條例 其實涉及到選址的作業還有可能將來的對於這個場址的回饋 地方的回饋還有一些政策配套措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3401.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3415.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以他們是執行單位你們是上級機關我們是安全管制機關我們是管制單位所以將來他選出來的長職要經過你們核可那如果他選出來的你是可以不核可的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3417.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3432.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
將來因為他處置的時候要連同他的工程設計一起送就長期條件 安全 工程設計跟安全評估之所以設置這個是不是行政院經濟部覺得和安會能力不足啊為什麼你們不能直接來執行呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3434.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3450.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
整個選址作業都是經濟部跟台電公司的事務那我只問一個問題放射性廢棄物處置相關的專案在執行的時候有沒有核安方面的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3451.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3478.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
有 所以我們每一年都會去查核台電公司的執行狀況查核台電我知道 但是之前你們河安推給台電 台電推給河安已經很多了現在又多了一個辦公室嘛那如果你們意見跟他不一樣怎麼辦我們會給他我們對於管制的專業意見那他們去依照我們的設定的安全的條件他們會去做選址的工作那他可不可以不認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3480.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3502.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
他會就是基本上因為我們設的安全條件是最基本安全條件那他應該要符合這個懸到長子上那他選址出來之後你覺得不同意你可以拒絕他嗎你會拒絕他嗎你會拿出這個guards拒絕他嗎如果他的選址結果和將來的整個工程設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3504.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3516.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
結果是不安全的那我們就說他是不安全沒辦法合格這個其實不只有我們將來他也需要寬頻我想其實聽起來你們很可能就是到時候還是會以經濟部的意見為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3517.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3540.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那何安慧老實說我覺得你們真的是不知道是不是被行政院這樣發配邊疆還是怎麼樣有時候網友都有一些迷因圖說現在這個社會大眾希望能研議然後我們的政府說要以安全為由做各種的評估可是安全評估廢料處置全部又跑到經濟部跟台電去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3541.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3567.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
何安慧要不要乾脆解散啊你現在延誼的按鈕你也不按何安慧你說這個主導的東西你又交給別人這兩按鈕怎麼看報告委員我們對於處置安全管理規則還有他的長職要件我們都已經訂好了不是你訂的為什麼不能你執行就好了呢為什麼一定要他執行呢因為選址工作涉及到政策配套還有那個回饋這個都在後端基金後端基金主管機關是經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3569.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3584.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
好 沒關係 理解啦那我想這個未來還是務必要盡到對河岸的承諾好不好不要到時候引起地方的紛爭河岸會存在的目的其實就是要讓民眾對河能放心嘛不要像現在可能有些特定團體以不實資訊製造民眾恐慌 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3587.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3603.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
未來的溝通一定要做得更好那我想其實未來核廢料的這個議題我們也希望有一些新的可能性現在在日本有一些以核廢料為活性材料來做電 放電的這個做法請問有沒有聽說過 何安慧有沒有掌握過 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3605.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3621.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以高階核废料的处理方式它还可以再利用一直都会改进一直都会进步高階核废料可以经过某种转换可以转换成低阶核废料这个技术现在已经现在是它还可以发电 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3622.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3649.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
- 還可以發電- 有掌握到嗎?對,也可以發電放在Multi-Solid Reactor裡面可以把它放當作燃料然後直接把它減量所以其實很科學的嘛所以我想其實本席在4月10號的時候就執行中研院啦我們覺得其實很多新的科學技術都可以納入我們接下來的這個核能議題的發展那當時我詢問了中研院院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3649.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3678.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
為什麼他們的減碳計畫裡面的淨零五支箭沒有跟核能有關的哇 核安會的專業突然又被中研院放在旁邊去了那院長最後表示他們沒有跟核能有關的設備跟人才所以沒有辦法做核能的研究而且這個他們淨零五支箭只選擇社會大眾沒有在討論的東西來放請問主委核安會有沒有核能相關的人才或設備台灣有沒有核能相關的人才或設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3680.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3689.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
雖然是有的不過數目一直在減少中那這樣我們怎麼跟得上國際趨勢呢所以說要加油嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3691.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3719.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我想這個部分跨部會合作好不好我聽你說真話啦謝謝你說真話我覺得我們應該要在這一塊加強而且應該也要向中研院來提供意見未來中研院跟對不起我在跟主席爭取一滴滴時間就是說未來跟中研院有沒有可能來做計畫的合作像德國現在也已經開始在做合融合剛剛我們科委員也有提到合融合相關的這個發展的探究未來有沒有跟中研院合作的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3726.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3741.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我們跟中委院去年有跟廖院長洽談了整整半年原來有去探染情的但是核能的目前還沒有相關的研究計畫所以我們事實上已經有機制雙方合作的機制已經有建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3741.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3768.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
好太好了過去沒有談到核能現在應該要談了啦為什麼呢環境部已經表態了啦這個考量國安應該保留核能我們現在有越來越多的部會開始說出真話我也非常感謝那我想環境部的這個部長帶電投靠那我想這個中研院也應該很理性核安會也應該很理性我們希望我們是不是就在核能上面有多一點讓台灣的能源韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3772.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3798.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我希望這個可以選擇當然越多越好特別如果是核安、核廢料公眾支持的情況下當然選擇是越多越好好啦 希望您再回去讀一下過去您的文章我們一起來follow您的先知我們一起來執行好不好 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝主委好 謝謝葛如君、昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3799.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3802.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
主委請回我們接下來請陳秀邦委員謝謝主席請陳主委好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3823.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3849.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
主委早首先先跟主委這邊來討論一下關於我們河岸會這邊預算遭煽動的部分根據河岸會這邊給本席的資料河岸會遭通案刪減的部分有國內的差旅費20%那媒體政策及業務宣導費也是高達60%那其中本席比較關心是關於荷普教育本席想要請教關於如果差旅費遭刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3850.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3876.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
会不会影响到我们河安会的同仁到各地参与科展以及科普宣传是有影响的那如果会影响的话你们的规划跟你们有折衷的方法做法是什么我们就用网路或视讯等等方式来减少旅费支出那同仁去参与的部分呢如果没有旅费你们可以怎么做 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3879.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3901.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
就只能用網路上的這些相關的我們盡量想辦法在現有預算之內來達成我們的目標其實我覺得說核安會的工作除了說確保台灣的核能安全之外社會也給予我們核安會很高的教育的期待那我們也希望說核安會可以提供給民眾更多正確的核能知識所以這邊我也要請教一下核安會關於你們今年科普活動的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3906.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3919.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
在被這個隨意的煽動這些相當多的預算之後呢這很顯然好像就是刻意的要阻擋正確的核安知識的傳播那核安會這邊你們對今年科普活動你們的規劃是怎麼樣請我們的中衛組組長來 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3924.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3949.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
報告委員今年我們一樣有兩場的自辦的原子能科普展有一場已經在這個上禮拜六禮拜天在國立科教館已經辦理完成大概參與的民眾有八千多人我想就誠如委員所講的核安會是非常重視原子能科普教育但是當然因為拆旅費的刪減多少總是會有影響當然我們只好就盡力的節省費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3949.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3973.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那第二場的科普展我們是規劃在下半年度在新北市辦理以上所以你們這兩就是今年只能辦兩場目前的規劃是這個樣子包括委員市就是我們自辦的科普展因為我們都是請同仁實際上到現場跟現場的民眾直接溝通所以我們會耗費我們比較多的人力以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3973.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4000.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
你謝謝核安會這邊很盡力的在我剛說的傳達正確的這些相關的核安知識給民眾我也希望你們可以再繼續努力在你們有限的這些經費跟預算的狀況之下還是要傳遞正確的這些核能相關的訊息那主委我再請教您之前有立委運用中研院的報告來表示說乾式儲存場還有空間所以根本不存在核廢料的後續處置問題是真的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4003.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4027.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
乾式儲存場目前我們是正在興建一些乾式儲存場我的意思是說我們按照標準的安全的核廢料處理高階的核廢料後續處置我們是先放乾式儲存場然後再來移到中期站儲存場最後必須移轉到最終處置設施是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4029.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4052.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那請問核廢料可以一直放在乾式儲存場嗎到一定程度以後一定要做下一步處理那麼核廢料的儲存就是包含了在後期的話包含中期的暫存以及最終儲置那麼我們已經有找到最終儲置的場址了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4056.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4084.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
還沒還沒對不對其實連美國現在也還沒有找到最終處置的場子那麼中期暫存以及最終處置的場子沒有選還沒有地方可以來設置的時候來興建的時候我們如何繼續使用核能如何繼續產生核廢料導致這樣子沒有辦法處理核廢料問題這麼就是這是社會的共識沒有辦法處理核廢料我們要如何繼續使用核電 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4085.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4105.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
主委您覺得目前我們高階核廢料是放在乾式儲存就是全世界都是這樣處理的目前這樣子處理但是我們最終的處置是不是還沒有辦法處理所以我們核廢料也不能一直只放在乾式儲存場 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4108.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4137.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
全世界趨勢是這樣並不是把高階核廢料直接埋在地下將來大概不會往這條路走大概會比較可能會經過再處理把高階核廢料移出來因為裡面還有很多其他的有用的材料可以繼續使用將來的方法大概是這樣把高階核廢料移除出來然後再經過高階核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4138.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4166.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
也經過各種高科技的處理這些處理方式現在還在研發之中譬如說用加速器把它撞擊之後變成低階核廢料或把高階核廢料放在Multi-Sole Reactor裡面讓它消除掉等等技術還在研發之中所以目前根據還沒有到最終要決定要怎麼處理的時候我們大概會跟世界大概相同方法來處理這方面的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4167.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4195.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那在這邊我以主委您的專業我再次的跟您確認就是我們的核廢料不能一直放在乾式儲存廠是吧所以我們也不能被斷章取義的訊息來誤導並不是有乾式儲存廠我們就可以繼續發電繼續產出核廢料中期的暫存以及最終的處置選址才是我們是不是繼續使用核電的關鍵您覺得是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4197.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4198.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
最終廚師長遲早要有地方儲存這些核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4205.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4211.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
是的 我們要找到這個儲存場最終的儲值 還是要找到再來根據媒體的報導日本媒體報導說日本有民眾有高達31%的民眾認為應該要降低核電的佔比這個在目前的局勢這樣的聲音是很不一樣的意見那也表示說核能的發展其實最重要的其實就是民意的趨勢那台灣跟日本都有民眾對減少核電有更多的表態 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4233.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4243.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以說呢核能的發展除了民意基礎社會共識也要有能力來處理核廢料諸位您覺得這樣子的說法您是不是認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4245.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4269.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
是的那既然我們現在最終處置的場子沒有找到我們沒有辦法找到目前沒有辦法處理最末端那麼台灣其實就沒有本錢來繼續發展核電如果台灣的民眾對核電還有極高的疑慮我們也沒有持續發展核電的本錢主委您覺得呢我請陳署長代我回答一下好嗎好請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4270.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4293.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
報告委員 國內目前的核廢料 低介部分都在電廠裡面儲存高介部分我們目前是走的是水質儲存 乾式儲存 將來要進行最終處置目前的狀況就是我們盡力來先做好乾式儲存的一個工作因為現在只能放在乾式儲存 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4294.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4295.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
將來會繼續來做最終處置所以經濟部才會去設專案辦公室來推這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4302.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4324.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
好那再來我跟您諸葛請教這幾年關於SMR就是小型模組化反應爐討論度很高那英國在2022年投資的包含AMR的相關六項的核技術研究那義大利也近期表示會重啟核能那其中也再度的提到小型模組化反應爐但是根據2024世界核能產業現況報告裡面有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4329.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4335.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
SMR過度的炒作跟產業現實之間的差距持續的擴大而且有小型模組化反應爐的計畫持續的延遲或取消主委您認為目前國際間SMR的發展技術真的有一開始說的那麼好嗎目前國際間SMR的發展和安慧這邊是我們自己在研究還是有跟國外來攜手 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4354.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4371.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
据统计全世界有参与SMR研究的企业或研究单位大概有90几家最后能胜出的只是少数几家多数在竞争过程中会被淘汰 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4372.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4375.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
因為其實在投入之間他們也發現說這個成本非常的昂貴所以致使很多計畫會延遲或取消那本席這邊要強調的是說關於SMR它其實這樣子的反應爐它一樣會核廢掉的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4388.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4391.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
如果我們沒有辦法處理核廢料那目前我們堆置在核電廠裡面的燃料棒移出來乾式儲存後我們沒有辦法做最終處理的話無論國際間如何吹捧SMR的好處但是所產生的核廢料一樣是沒有辦法處理我們還是沒有這樣的本錢來繼續發展核電 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4408.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4431.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那這個部分呢 我們就在這邊 我們不要再關於討論這個部分我是希望說 國際間的趨勢我們還是要掌握我們不管說我們自己本身的核電 我們發展到怎樣的地步我們跟國際間的合作 跟我們自己本身關於核電的這些技術都要持續的發展 持續的了解 持續的掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4433.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4458.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
是,我們跟國際像Idol International去年八月開始就有赴訪那中間也每三個月定期開一次會所以我們跟國際還有日本這個美國其他單位MIT都有合作赴訪的program在裡面隨時會follow這個進度國進最新核能技術的發展我們會明確來注意尤其是SMR方面相關的技術好謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4461.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4467.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
好 謝謝沈秀寶委員主委請回好 我們接下來請劉淑冰委員有請陳主委有請陳主委您需要喝一杯水嗎您需要喝口水覺得體力還可以嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4494.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4515.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
好 陳主委好我們今天討論的是關於核安會的報告我當然也關心到目前核一核二核三的營運狀況還有是不是在除役當然已經有些在除役了所以特別講到的是說請看表大家看到這個表裡面可以看到核一核二這邊都已經進入到研議階段了他在18到19 21到23都已經進入到 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4523.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4541.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
和研議的這個狀況就是他現在目前是停役的那他研議點的話如果說是有可能的話應該推算到前5年的話就是13 14 16 18這個情況好那我們現在在看這個問題的時候就在於說當初可能就沒有什麼研議的需求那也沒關係我們繼續往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4544.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4570.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
核三的部分就是去年已經出現了一號機是在去年就除役了核三的二號機是在今年的5月17號要除役但我現在詢問的是說如果是進入到非核家園的情況因為民進黨的政策是在非核家園那我們繼續往下看的時候非核家園它事實上特別是針對核廢料的處理當中的有幾個部分大家可以看到這個PPT裡面說說剛才前面的那位 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4573.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4597.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
行政官員還提到說高階是用水式的部分還有乾式的部分目前都儲存在我們的合一合二廠嘛對不對好那這個部分呢沒有問題可是那另外還要最後要有到所謂最高或是最遠的這樣子的就是永久的這個儲置廠嘛對不對可是事實上這些都目前真的並沒有像現在這個表彰這麼想要順利而且往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4598.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4622.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
往下看的時候你就可以看到目前就出現到在合一以合一為例的時候呢它的乾式的這個儲存槽就是不夠這不夠這個原因然後呢還包括的是前面的部分呢用過的這個燃料池這個濕式的部分也是不夠的好那我們特別是想到因為你乾式不夠你在水式的部分呢就不能把它上去嘛這是對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4623.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4645.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那如果這樣的情況之下呢當然還有一個問題是最終儲存廠剛剛陳秀寶委員有提到的是它經濟部目前它是一個專案的辦公室但是這個部分就有很大的問題是請問一下全世界目前有哪一個國家進行了最終永久儲存廠的一個設置已經完成的有嗎好像有一個國家已經完成是荷蘭 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4647.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4651.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
全世界190幾個國家至少才只有一個國家芬蘭但是全世界有其他的幾十個國家都使用在核電對不對所以這個問題絕對不會是大問題只是如果你在前面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4667.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4686.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
你還是繼續找你的永久儲存廠但是你原來在高階的部分你在原來的乾式的部分你剛才說也是最重的部分就是應該儲存可是你現在遇到這個部分乾式儲存廠的部分在合一的內容當中我們可以看到你呢那你有沒有廠地呢有吧我們現在換下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4688.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4716.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
現在業裡面看到的是說我們特別以合一來看248.5公頃當中甘氏儲存潮的面積0.45相對比才0.18這他來講的話他需要的話呢合一場的話像6.3座的部分籃球場目前在以場區248.5公頃的時候還有很多的場地很區的做那為什麼沒有做有在做我知道但是問題是地方政府在砍是不是是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4718.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4742.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
請回答報告委員有關台電公司合一廠室外乾室儲存部分它跟地方的液體已經消除最終核准就對了對 我們也已經完成熱測室就是已經完成兩組互相的裝載進行完熱測室現在正在審查它的運轉值 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4744.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4751.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那這樣子看到表示說合一的情況之下乾式儲存廠的問題就沒有事實上是沒有問題只要待最後核准然後去處理就可以對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4753.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4781.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
他另外還有一個二期的室內乾儲計劃是規劃要把所有的用過燃料全部搬出來目前還在 沒錯就是因為你乾式儲存好那濕式單元可以拿上來嘛那可是你看到核二這一部分那還包括核三的這些部分等等的照資料顯示出來事實上乾式儲存槽的問題事實上沒有問題空間沒有問題技術性只要現在有這個研議需求的話至少事實上不是研議需求如果非核家園要做的時候絕對不能把高階核廢料放在 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4783.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4795.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
這個水勢的這部分也不能放在乾勢的部分嘛對不對當然乾勢是水勢又更高 安全一點對不對是嘛 你都點頭了齁所以在這個情況之下是溝通的問題所以我現在繼續往下看的是在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4796.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4808.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
你可以往下一頁我們可以看到核安事務上面工作重點在這邊前面的話核安事務核子保防都沒有問題失重你都要管理可是最重要的你有負責溝通跟資訊公開那請問你們溝通程序如何我們繼續往下看你確定溝通是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4815.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4818.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那我們現在以最新到今年4月1號的資料顯示核電廠的廚藝安全管制的大試劑顯示說到2月26號的時候核能電廠的廚藝管制作業已經做了第20次的溝通會議那請問一下溝通的歷程是怎麼樣請你把最後的最新的第20次的溝通結果跟大家報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4835.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4852.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
跟委員說明,這次2月26號的溝通會議是和安會跟台電公司針對技術細節的部分,就是有些設備要營運維護保養這部分,就是為了燃料的安全這部分做技術的討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4854.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4875.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
燃料的安全對 因為有些目前核一二廠用過的燃料池還是有燃料所以要維持燃料的安全所以針對這部分有跟台電公司做技術的討論所以你的燃料是指普遍還是指核一核二還是核三都有 都有對啊 那結果是怎麼樣所以這部分針對技術細節還在討論過程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4877.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4892.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好,但是你們溝通是自己內部在溝通,而不是跟地方在溝通,跟縣市政府在溝通,是嗎?溝通有分很多種,這部分是針對台電跟河岸會。那你們請問一下,你過去有跟地方政府在做溝通嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4894.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4923.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
或地方的居民在做溝通嗎跟委員報告針對台電公司提出來的合一二三場的廚藝計畫那核安會在審查一開始的時候有跟召開地方說明會跟地方的鄉親做說明那也邀請地方的鄉親到那結果呢結果有沒有有溝沒有通是不是跟委員說明就是當地居民所提出來意見都會納入核安會的管制的那是支持還是反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4925.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4949.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
他們覺得這個安全是夠的事還是不夠當然他會提出他所以在地居民所關切的一些議題比如說工作權啊然後一些回饋金這部分當然也會關切到處理過程中的一些安全你想到的工作權還有回饋金事實上他是在研議之後才有可能發生吧如果他已經停止還有什麼機會發生呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4952.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4976.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
跟委員說明喔那在台電公司現行好那我現在因為我的時間快要已經大概就在不到一分鐘就結束了那我們繼續往後看齁這個地方就是在於依照和安會他本身監督執職的處分他應該去加強對於他應該去加強跟地方政府跟民意的這個溝通不要去推卸責任那尤其是要合意的研製到這個儲存到他現在還在剛才已經說有改變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4979.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5004.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
但是就是這一部分就是應該繼續再進行再繼續下來另外呢有環安環境保護的團體要提到說非核家園如果真的要落實的話核子事故緊急應變法跟核子反應器設施管制法跟核子損害賠償法所說的核安三法應該要去修法還是負責著核安維護那核安會不修法的理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5007.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5036.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
因為這是後面的發生事情的時候的一些保障最重要是這裡跟委員說明有關於環台所提出來核子反應器設施管制法這一部分它主要目的是說如果未來有新建核冷機組的時候要將地質的條件納入考量那現在核電使用就要回到三個原則就是核安核廢棄沒有你現在把核子損害賠償法你講到原來本來就核子損害賠償法這邊為什麼不訂不去修 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5039.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5058.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
報告委員 針對核子損害賠償法 目前我們有核子損害賠償法當然環團或是民間有一些聲音說我們要去精進過去在101年的時候 我們有在整個檢討因為整個時空環境的關係 目前這個並不是非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5060.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5085.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
破竊的法案 但是我們本來也就有核子損害檢查法所以你現在說沒有破竊的需要所以如果發生 是不是代表發生核子事故的風險事實上是蠻低的應該是可以這樣講 因為說沒有那破竊的需要嘛好 那這樣的情況再往下看我再稍微再給我一分不到30秒很快就結束所以看起來說如果這邊看起來是風險發生這麼低的情況之下那研議是不是有可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5085.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5090.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
民眾黨上個禮拜我做了民意調查顯示出來是六七成以上的民意是覺得說在我們安全無虞的情況是可以研議的請您去尊重這樣的一個民意的需求當然是安全合格的情況這樣那最後一頁就是說我們當然希望核安會繼續再把我們的把關如果是有這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5107.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5109.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好 謝謝劉淑冰委員 主委請回我們接下來請郭育晴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5146.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5150.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
好,謝謝主席,有請陳主委好,有請陳主委主委早安,辛苦囉,這個核電研議的問題還是要取決於安全安全安全,安全才是首要喔好,今天其實我不想要談這個核電的部分喔我來談另外一個話題,就是放射性物質的部分喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5172.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5187.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那放射性物質的這個運送監控的一個部分其實我們發現光是運送規則大概已經有17年沒有修正了那我們大部分都只是聚焦在所謂的包裝標示或者是一些所謂的文件的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5188.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5192.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
靜態的一個規範那但是呢在所謂的這個放射性物質他們在運送的過程當中有可能會因為失竊或者是因為事故的發生或者是因為損害或者是外洩的一個風險但是我們缺乏了所謂的這個即時監控跟通報的一個機制啦感覺是已經跟這個現代的這個所謂的這個外洩的一個風險其實已經有一點脫鉤 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5216.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5233.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那根據這個國際原子能總署他們其實也特別的建議就是說所謂的高風險的放射源應該要建立這個即時的定位還有異常通報的一個機制但是目前為止我們看到台灣的部分就是我國的部分其實還是依賴這個紙本跟事後的一個稽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5235.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5247.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那這個明顯其實已經留下了一些所謂的控管的一個空窗那我們不禁要擔心在沒有設置及時的監控跟輻射偵測的一個裝置如果真的當車輛遺失或者是發生交通事故或者是遭竊的時候我們的主管機關怎麼樣在第一時間當中可以掌握這個車 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5258.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5281.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
車禍或者是事故的位置或者是這個放射源的這個劑量它到底外洩的一個程度這個部分我們怎麼來做修補謝謝委員確實追蹤這個輻射源是很重要的工作過去原輪會跟現在的河岸會 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5284.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5298.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
觉得这方面呢是需要补强的所以我们目前其实今年已经开始导入高风险社员的监控技术就随时随地能够掌控 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5301.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5308.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
高風險輻射源的位置已經確定了嗎現在已經正在進行中什麼時候你所謂的高風險控管的機制這個機制比較具體的一個說法或者比較具體的一個做法是什麼這點我請主長跟大家講細節 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5322.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5337.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
報告委員那我們現在是一個雙軌的一個概念就是剛剛陳如委員所說的在法規的一個修法上我們現在在持續的在推動那在輔導業者的一個法尊上我們就是現在已經開始去做一些輔導的計畫我們是用 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5340.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5367.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
現行的GPS的一個車用的GPS來去做這個運送過程中的追蹤那至於我們現在這是強制性的呢還是說輔導現在只是輔導對對對先讓他們在這一塊未來的配套方案可以執行的上來那目前輔導的這個期程是從什麼時候開始什麼時候要輔導完畢什麼時候要有一些所謂的規範跟比較強制性的一個強制性他們要來做這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5369.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5388.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
監測的一個設備的工作目前的一個輔導我們是都目前是並沒有強制但是也沒有一旦上線了我們目前是打算不會退場但是因為有一些即時會有收到各自業者各自的所以我們在這部分我們就是會促進修法的一個授權因為我剛剛有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5393.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5405.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
因為我剛剛有提到關於這個運送的規則已經大概將近有十幾年沒修了大概將近有十七年沒修了那這個部分其實我們是不是也要來同步的更新跟修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5406.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5423.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
對 我們現在也在著手在探討這個運送規則所以在這部分我們也會來去辦理中好 那福島的這個盤點就是你們福島的一個對象跟整個所有的一些數量應該要盤點的這些數量其實到時候可以再提供給我辦公室嗎好 可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5424.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5447.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那另外呢我想要再問就是關於所謂的這個化學品跟高壓氣體的一個運送已經納入所謂的這個GPS的追蹤的系統而且建立了相關的這個資訊平台但是呢道路運輸管理規則當中也要求所謂的高壓氣體的運具應該要加定位的這個裝置但是呢這個放射性的物質沒有加定時及時的一個追蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5448.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5470.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
有聽出來嗎就是我剛剛講的放射性的物質是沒有加的但是我們講到剛剛化學品跟高壓氣體它是有GPS的追蹤但是剛剛講放射性的物質其實沒有這個追蹤我想要問一下何安慧放射性的物質同樣具有重大的一個公共的危險為什麼沒有強制施行而且沒有追蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5473.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5484.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這方面是需要加強的部分而且放射性物質如果萬一遺失的話是會造成社會的恐慌的那這個部分有相關的一些規劃嗎我們現在已經規劃要做這方面的事情所有放射性物質運送 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5490.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5500.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
任何時候我們都要知道他在哪個地方如果萬一遺失的話我們有辦法追蹤到他遺失的地點這是我們規劃的目標現在是規劃中還是有規劃的期程嗎這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5507.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5528.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
報告委員因為放射性物質它還有一個特性就是它有一個輻射所以輻射跟那個一些追蹤器的這一些的干擾或者是損傷我們因為它必須要透過一些技術研發所以我們現在剛剛主委講的是我們在規劃中是我們已經在研發中一旦研發上OK了我們就會直接的一個有沒有一個預期的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5530.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5547.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
這邊我們有目前有一個計畫在做研發那目前我們希望是在這兩三年內能夠有所技術完整的一個突破然後我們就可以來去推動這一塊好那再來我要提到就是這個油方法其實我們從92年制定到現在其實也沒有修訂這個比剛剛的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5549.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5560.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
運輸的管制這個更久這個時間真的更久那我想這個制度已經大概空窗超過10年那我想這個部分這麼重要的一個措施沒有納入修法這個部分我們怎麼來做修補 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5565.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5580.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
有關於服防法的這一塊我們持續辦理中那因為目前跟委員報告目前的一個進度就是我們因為我們核能安全委員會是委員制所以我們已經通過就是一些修法的一個草案已經通過但是因為委員過程中也有一些關切 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5581.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5606.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
因為去年其實這個代理主委已經有講了這個修法草案其實已經完成但是我們到現在為止其實還沒有看到他送進立法院啊這個部分其實我辦公室也在追這個部分對那大概什麼時候我們可以看得到現在整個還是在滾動還要送行政院這邊來審議一審議完成後我們就會送到送到那個立法院這邊來好如果有更進一步的進程再提供給我們辦公室好謝謝謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5609.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5616.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝郭宇晴委員主委請回那我們接下來請葉元之委員主席 我們請主委 謝謝好 又請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5639.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5668.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
主委好主委那個總統賴清德他在接見前兩天在接見環保團體的時候他有講說針對未來新的先進的核能技術保持開放的態度不過他有強調任何政策變更都必須滿足核安核廢社會共識三個前提那這三個前提實際上又以前面兩個很重要為什麼因為第三個前提社會共識是根據到底有沒有核安還有核廢料能不能處理來做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5669.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5678.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所以核安會的責任很重大第一個要跟社會大眾確保說核能是安全的第二個也要想辦法來處理核廢啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5679.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5704.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
好,然後再來就是我們也可以發現說最近有非常多的過去反對核能的一些社會的一些先進都開始轉變了就像我們現在也頗為被賴總統器重的童子賢他也不斷地在強調就是說未來能源的組合的黃金比例應該是三成綠能、三成核能跟四成火力發電 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5705.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5728.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那當然這是為什麼呢這就是大家很關心能源的穩定的供給以及就是非碳家園所以才會對核能抱有那麼大的期望想問一下主委因為主委本身也是核能專家啦你也是這方面的博士嘛到底對於核能的安全的部分你的看法是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5731.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5734.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
報告委員河安會監管下的核電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5736.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5762.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
是必須合乎安全要求的所以是安全的嗎 核能現在是安全的一定是安全的 核能是安全的這是核安會的職責所以核能是安全的嗎 是嗎要讓安全一旦核安會認為運轉中核電廠有安全疑慮核安會一定會要求核電廠停機檢查這點是毫無模糊的餘地謝謝主委 那主委的意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5763.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5780.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我現在聽你的講法啦感覺核能是安全的啦因為如果核能有安全疑慮你就會要求他停機檢查嘛現在都沒有要求他停機檢查嘛所以目前來講感覺上您是覺得核能是安全那接下來我來問一下核廢喔因為今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5782.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5802.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
賴總統講說對於先進的核能技術保持核能開放態度這應該指的是現在大家在看看是不是能夠接受那個SMR就是小型模組化的反應毒是這個意思嗎小型模組化它有很多不同的設計有些設計它核廢料會比 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5807.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5826.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
傳統核電廠多一些有些會差不多有些會少很多不同的設計有不同的所以我們未來可能會接受的是哪一種是會核廢料會多很多的還是會少很多的還是差不多的這還需要評估因為評估要引進哪一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5828.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5839.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
是Module Reactor 是很複雜的過程因為你剛剛有提到說SMR有的它會造成更多的核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5841.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5860.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那如果以這個大家對於核廢料的恐懼來講的話這種會造成比較多的核廢料就不太可能引進嘛引進的應該是會少很多的嘛理論上是這樣嘛否則不可能說大家在這邊一直罵核廢料結果我們政府說我們要採用我們要引進SM嘛結果我們引進一個會造成更多核廢料的來這不太合理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5860.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5884.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
所以我聽起來感覺上應該是會這個朝向引進比較少核廢料的但無論如何它就是有核廢料所以我們核廢料的問題還是要解決甚至於連我們現在核二核三要除液的過程當中也都會衍生核廢料所以我接下來我就想要問一下主委我們現在核廢料的處理到底是怎麼樣我是有看到一個新聞說 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5885.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5910.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
現在經濟部 當然這是經濟部的事情經濟部說現在推動高階核廢料選址的一個辦公室已經成立了然後也找了這個負責人 負責人是一個教授他的工作就是要跟社會做溝通感覺上好像這個已經選好了所以要開始要跟社會溝通了那我們來看一下核廢料的進程等一下請主委來說明一下 這個是之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5912.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5927.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
核安會所訂出來核廢料處理的進程我們今年是2025年嘛所以我們是應該是還在第二階段第二階段就是後子長子的評選與核定階段然後我們到2028年必須要完成後子選子的調查跟評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5928.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5954.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
然後還有要建立厚紙長紙的功能安全評估技術那請問一下因為剩3年2028年就要完成那個厚紙長紙的這個調查跟評估那主委我們現在有哪一些長紙是作為那個最終處置場核能 核廢的最終處置場還沒有做最後決定還沒有最後決定因為已經要社會溝通了嘛所以現在是選哪幾個地方準備要跟社會溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5955.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5984.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這點請組長回答報告委員是那個有關這個高放處置計畫部分那目前技術的研發部分我們其實行會都要求台電公司要跟上國際腳步關於選址的部分目前台電公司是沒有進度所以經濟部他設置這個專案辦公室那這專案辦公室的工作除了嚴定高放處置計畫的選址法案以外他也要 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5985.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6012.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
兼做高低放最終處置選址作業跟必要的地址調查以及社會溝通這是他整個辦公室的一個成立設置所以你的意思是說到目前為止還沒有還沒有候選的場址還沒有一個都沒有還沒有一個都沒有還沒有 對那他現在成立的這個辦公室負責人是一個他的專長是在做社會溝通但你連那個前面的場址都沒有你要怎麼讓他去做社會溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6013.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6029.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
他們向經濟部向透過成立那個原定了選址條例的法案然後依序來做選址的工作那你這樣有信心2028年可以達到你們原本規劃的進程嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6033.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6058.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
呃我這個這個進程恐怕到時候台電公司是難以達成難以達成那會延後多久呃這個要看呃就是整個整個呃那個法案齁通過後他設定的他在這裡面都沒有角色嗎呃我們其實是每年都會來進行呃台電公司組織計畫的一個呃對因為那個我為什麼會在這邊問因為我們剛剛這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6061.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6082.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
第一個就算我們要引進SMR它也是會有核廢料第二個我們現有的核能機組就算除以也會有核廢料所以核廢料就是要處理現在不是說好像停核二核三停機之後就已經廢了家園就不用處理核廢料不是就是要處理這個事情就是要處理那所以我們當然就是要按照原本規劃的進程去走嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6082.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6099.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那我看到經濟部也有動作了嘛所以才來問結果聽你們的說法是說即便是成立這個辦公室感覺好像還是跟我們原本規劃的進度落差很大那大家就慢慢拖就好了啊那如果慢慢拖的情況之下那核廢的問題一直沒有辦法給社會大眾一個交代啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6100.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6124.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那賴總統講的要處理核廢社會有共識這就是空話啦那大家還是會疑慮說能源到底能不能穩定地供給嘛這都是環環相扣的嘛所以我覺得這個核廢的部分不知道主委因為您是這方面專家啦齁您加入核安會之後應該是可以給我們核廢的處理帶來一個專業的一股力量啦能不能push台電或者是核安會可以趕快處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6131.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6148.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
科技一直在進步,處理高階核廢料的技術也一直在進步而且將來很有可能把高階核廢料轉換為低階核廢料一旦目的達到的話,核廢料的處理就會簡單得多 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6151.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6164.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我最後一分鐘我再問一個問題因為3月6號那時候屏東河山場發生火災那天是11月18號的時候發現有明火11月23號的時候那時候還通報場內的消防員來處理那河安會是11點35分才接貨通報然後到了12點36分的時候才上網公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6175.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6200.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那後來因為這個事情有冒出煙啊所以當時屏東有些民意代表也受不了直接就沖河山場了就到底發生什麼事情那環環會我不知道說在這個事情後來後來這個檢討裡面呢有一點我們很快看一下他說以後無論火勢大小都要先通報再滅火那這個是不是很怪啊你不滅火那你為什麼要先通報再滅火 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6203.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6217.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
好 跟委員說明了 針對這一件而且第二個就是說你們通報的時間會不會太慢了你看11點18分那時候火就出來了那大家都很害怕然後一直到12點36分才上網公告讓社會大眾知道發生什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6218.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6232.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
會不會太慢了B的那個當地的證明代表都衝到河山場去了然後第三個問題啦就是說其實我們後來看你們事後的報告覺得河山場即便發生火災其實還是相對來說算安全的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6233.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6255.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
對不對 它有一些防火措施應該也是算安全的對不對 請簡單說明一下跟委員說明喔 那在現場發生火災的時候當然第一線工作人員會先撲滅火災 然後進行後續的通報那核安會的視察同仁 接獲訊息的時候要現場了解它的狀況 也要了解機組的狀況確認說火災沒有對兩部機組的運作安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6259.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6288.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那核安會整理所有資訊之後在12點36分然後會上最新消息然後提供給民眾知的一些訊息那針對委員剛才所提到的台電公司所提出來先通報再滅火這部分事實上核安會在檢視台電公司的一些作為我們也有發現到那後續我們會請台電公司去請一些消防單位來確認整個的程序然後建立適當的程序以上說明好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6290.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6297.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
好謝謝葉雲芝委員主委請回我們接下來請羅廷偉委員好謝謝趙偉有請我們陳主委好有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6321.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6345.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
主委好委員好主委我想跟您請問一下你們的解凍案什麼時候要送來立法院已經送了吧已經送了都已經送了那個院長前天才宣布要解凍全部送解凍的報告這麼快我們一直在準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6348.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6359.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
對不起您講什麼我們一直都在準備一直都在準備好那在這之前想跟你請問一下有沒有之前有收到所謂行政院有說只是要暫緩送 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6360.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6383.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我沒有聽到這個消息沒有我想針對預算的解凍卓院長前天才表示並非是行政院有任何的要求而是每個部會有任何都有不同的狀況請問主委各部會有不同狀況那請問河岸會有沒有什麼狀況有沒有遇到什麼具體的困難首先我們的這個收集預算執行資料有個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6388.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6410.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們一開始我們主要的馬上的感覺就是我們旅費被砍了很多很多要到現場視察或是等等都沒辦法做要現場視察或突襲檢查之類解凍的藥件寫說要突襲檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6421.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6444.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
主委您怎麼好像完全狀況外因為你剛剛說突襲檢查我是說有不預警視察我們河南會常常對一些廠商有做不預警視察很好啊這樣這看起來是民眾喜歡的一個概念可是這樣我們才可以減少的話這方面的視察就必須要減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6446.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6475.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
不好意思您講這句話我聽不太清楚如果我們像是差旅費被砍了之後我們這方面的經費減少必須要減少這方面的不預警視察對不起因為您的口音有時候聽不太清楚不好意思那您說差旅費被刪除所以不預警視察造成你的困難你沒辦法這麼多的不預警視察是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6476.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6477.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這是其中一個因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6478.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6506.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
其中一個因素好沒關係我看你還有什麼具體的困難都請提出沒關係還有呢是跟委員報告一下我們其實剛剛主委提到的是我們在通山的部分因為差旅費有刪減不能留用所以造成我們一些視察業務的影響但是我們還是會在預算範圍之內做到我們荷蘭管制應該執行的業務我想有多少錢做多少事是那不預警視察跟預警視察 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6507.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6530.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
都跟差旅費我覺得沒有多大的關係啦難道預警視察就沒有差旅費的問題不預警視察就有差旅費的問題應該不是啦但是我想民眾的多半都希望是不要有所準備去了解第一線的狀況那你是說你的不預警視察是成為解凍的主要之一的條件嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6532.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6554.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
再跟委員說明我們的解凍案在114年總共九項凍結案那其中有一項專案報告是要針對預算執行資料來做一些蒐集那我們其他解凍案也有很多在委員會委員關切的議題所以其實這段時間我們都在整理這些資料所以我們在整理完畢之後在昨天發文送來大院那也請委員支持我們的預算解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6556.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6583.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
只要前提在這個部分上如果是真的為我們的核安來努力我想大家一定會支持所有的這些相關的一個手段都是希望核安會能夠更加督促不管是我們的核能議題之外以及核能相關安全那相信剛剛也有委員有提到這個河山火災的案子大家都一定會很關注啊嚇死啊所以這也都是核安必須要加緊去處理的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6584.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6610.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
但是我想先來問賴清德總統啊之前說新核能採開放的一個態度因為他4月22有接見這個環保團體拋出行政團隊一貫的立場就是對未來新的先進的核能技術保持開放的一個態度任何的政策變更都必須滿足核安核廢社會共識三個主要的前提才能夠進行那想請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6611.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6630.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們現在是行政團隊的議員,請問你們所謂的新核能具體是指哪些技術呢?主要是指的是small module reactor,小型模組化反應器核融合也是未來,模組化的小型反應爐,那有沒有具體的時間表? |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6636.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6654.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
或者是有沒有接下來有一個進度因為我知道世界的趨勢在這邊但是我們有沒有去追我們現在國務院院有已經有一部分研究計畫是在裡面然後我們現在有個比較長期的研究計畫之前國務院院長高院長國務院院長是是請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6656.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6668.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
SMR計畫今年會離總共補助大概2300萬做相關的研究那明年主委來了以後還加碼加碼1800萬大概有3500萬加倍今年2300萬 明年5800萬沒有 加碼1800萬1800萬 對不起 因為您麥克風靠近一點加碼1800萬這個國際上應該2030年左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6681.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6702.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
才會比較能夠穩定對SMR國際上的SMR有商品化的產品大約在五年以後會有商品化的產品出來可以大量生產所以我們希望有一個大型比較具規模的研究計畫最近跟國科會也前兩個禮拜做過報告希望能夠具體的研究三種新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6703.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6722.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
當然你有這樣子的一個具體的期程預計沒有叫你保證那對於這樣子的新核能的一個研究所編列的預算我想不會有任何的立委會去有所疑議甚至去阻擋所以兩千三跟一千八嘛今年兩千三嘛明年再加一千八我剛剛聽到五千八 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6727.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6742.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
核安是我們最重要的一個考量所以剛剛有許多立委對於這個核三的一個火災案大家都非常的關切相信現階段是沒有什麼太大的問題對吧對核安方面並沒有造成影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6742.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6770.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
好 但是我們要知道 縣府獲報的時候是大概晚7分鐘那原因是廠方自行滅火未通報所以我想問一下 本事件通報的原因是什麼未來如何確保第一時間同步的通報地方政府 民代 居民還是自行滅火是你們本身就要做的一個SOP最重要的一環所以你們滅完火才會通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6772.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6790.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
也請高組長回答這個問題是請說跟委員說明當天是縣長工作人員在進行切割然後高溫的火花噴濺到冷卻水塔裡面那縣長有工作人員也準備一些滅火器那發現有一些火星的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6791.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6809.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
第一線工作人員會先行滅火另外會通報廠內本身就有消防隊通報廠內消防隊前去滅火同時台電公司和三廠也去通報地方政府因為他們彼此之間有一個聯繫的溝通管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6811.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6830.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
看起來是準備很完善可是為什麼會說縣府貨報還晚7分鐘就台電公司所提出來資訊顯示是因為河山廠要通報的同仁當天應該是出差所以訊息可能有點耽誤出差沒有職務代理人 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6831.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6856.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
所以他後續的檢討就是會增加廠長去跟好來那這樣子既然你說到這就是重點那是不是對於任何的一個這樣子的一個緊急事件對外通報的SOP流程是不是可以擬定好一個確切的方案以後讓我們知道一下這部分應該沒困難吧跟委員說明這部分我們會裡面已經要求台電公司針對跟地方這部分或者是跟會裡面的通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6859.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6884.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我們也希望了解像你剛剛說的嘛你們自己有所謂的消防隊你們有一組人馬正在滅火有一組人馬負責通報這些東西能不能做出一個SOP然後來讓本委會所有委員知道一下那我想這個部分我們希望能夠了解再來卓院長有說要查明事故的原因深切追究那絕不會寬待但是目前有沒有相關人員受到懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6885.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6908.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
跟委員說明這屬於台電公司內部的管理這部分所以可能台電所以要問台電那你們不會去詢問他一下因為屬於他內部的行政管理好那但是SOP這個部分我想你們應該責無旁貸作為一個和安的主要主管機關應該是幫忙協助吧這可以嗎可以好那會後希望拿到這個資料好是謝謝好謝謝謝謝羅廷偉委員主委請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6915.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6917.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好 我們接下來請張雅玲委員謝謝主席 我們有請主委好 有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6939.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6960.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
主委好 上個禮拜五啊 其實院會通過了一個公投案就是要求說您是否同意在這個河山呢經過整體安全評估之後呢 恢復繼續運轉那最後呢 在這個藍白的聯手之下呢其實已經進負二讀囉 要交付協商那在整個關係文案你們可以看到 他其實有去講這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6961.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6978.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
在這個整體安全評估後,所以聽起來似乎是非常在乎安全那我想請教主委,就您的專業我們目前如果要評估一個核電廠是不是能夠繼續安全,要進行的安全檢查有沒有一個國際標準跟流程報告委員,我們現在核電廠發指導是40年 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6985.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7010.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
40年前當初核發執照的時候是根據使用40年的標準來核發的但是我們現在如果要繼續的話現在過去這個40年之後呢當初是沒有評估所以如果要延長使用期限的話是需要評估的那我現在的問題是說我們這個安全的一個評估是不是有一些國際標準跟流程是的我們有非常嚴謹的流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7012.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7025.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
但我記得我上次問您說這個時間要花多久好像是現在我們沒有辦法說得準對不對沒有辦法說得準是要花時間的要花多少時間其實現在也都不確定嘛對不對現在都在一個不確定的狀況我自己也會覺得這個問題這個公投的題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7029.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7052.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這種條件式問法很像說如果我今天中樂透我就要去環遊世界問題是說我現在也沒有中樂透嘛也不可能也不保證我一定會中嘛所以這樣子的我們這樣子的條件式的公投很像在許一個願望但是真的會實現嗎因為核能安全並不是我們哪個委員說的算嘛它就是有個禁令的流程跟國際的標準它必須要經過非常非常多的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7053.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7075.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
才有可能去確保這座核電廠是否安全因為有可能檢驗出來之後不符合嘛對不對有可能的嘛對不對公投其實是人民授權政府去做事的一個權利不是做白日夢的舞台所以藍白用公投的障眼法迴避掉我們應該實質面對的檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7077.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7092.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
還有核廢料最終主持長的一個實質問題那我覺得我們應該要去做的是這些事情的討論而不應該是投給一個假設成立的幻想那同時我也比較了一下各國針對核電公投的一些題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7094.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7106.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那像這個是左邊是瑞士或是義大利其實他們都是在講說針對於這個能源的一個法案大家的一個想法到底是什麼其實沒有去涉及到核電廠是否研議這麼專業的一個問題所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7110.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7138.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
在我們現在其實河山公投現在已經交付協商可是大家不要忘記我們3月份其實也針對當時這個河管法的說法已經送出委員會了那接下來藍白要做的到底是這個研議的討論呢要以公投為主還是以立法院的程序為主這麼混亂的討論方式沒有對我們的核能安全有充足的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7139.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7166.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那如果安全評估最後沒有通過的時候我們耗費這麼多的人力跟物力那誰要來負責人民的納稅錢我認為不應該是這樣子花的所以現在單純要靠公投來決定一個核電廠是否安全我覺得這是非常危險的也是非常不負責任的甚至這個公投會不會有可能凌駕我們科學檢驗讓科學檢驗承受一個壓力這都是有可能的所以我認為這是一個非常不負責任的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7168.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7181.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那接下來我也想要請教就是有關於這個火災的通報時間我其實後來有去調了你們每一個時間點上面發生的事情你們場內有接貨通知然後後來好像是屏東的消防局也有跟河山長確認情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7183.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7209.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那時間點其實總共大概發生是31分鐘的時間就撲滅了這個火勢但是呢這整個的問題在於是說火勢都撲滅了當時因為我們所有的行政主管都在開會所以我們到12點半才通報了我們各機關可是現場已經濃煙嘛所以居民都不知道發生了什麼事情就是就發生了12點7分恆春鎮代表衝撞大門的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7210.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7237.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
所以我想問雖然合規但是通報時間是否太晚因為這造成你們內部可能知道發生什麼事情外部完全不了解那我看一下現在動力用的核子反應器設施應立即通報的形式及通報時限我們現在其實是有兩種就是說一小時內跟兩小時內但是這是2004年訂的已經過了20年了我們有沒有修正的必要呢我們能不能參考世界再去做一些修正呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7238.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7241.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
主委您的想法這點請高組長回答好不好剛才說明了 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7243.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7271.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那委員提供這個表格是針對安全部分有影響的部分那當天是我們在11點35分有跟河山廠做聯繫那剛才所提出來那個書面報告是後續要補一些文件出來那在整個過程中會裡面的駐場視察員有到現場跟控制室去確認對我現在的問題是說在2004年訂的這樣子的規定世界上還是都沒有做任何的修正嗎這個通報的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7273.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7296.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
呃 基本上都是按照這個參考國外定所以我們有實施再修正嗎?因為我看到最後一個版本是2004年到現在是沒有修正的這過了20年都還發生了福島事件我們有做任何的修正嗎?福島事件是另外一個層次是京道核子事故這個是沒有構成我的意思是說在這個事件之後我們全世界有沒有針對這個通報實現有相關的修正?有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7301.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7322.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
目前根據我所了解是沒有我們可以再確認請你們再確認好不好那再來就是說大家也有在講到就是說我們現在的這些公告內容其實並沒有像並沒有非常非常的清楚那我自己找了一下日本的一個版本它其實是把事件發生的時間時時的更新各設施的狀況可是相對於我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7324.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7338.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
內容其實就非常的簡單那我們是不是有可能參考日本的這個標準呢跟這個格式呢再去把我們的公告裡面寫得更清楚因為我覺得這是可以降低民眾的一個擔心的這部分是有可能的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7341.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7355.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
跟委員說明了,事實上我們都有看日本發布訊息事實上我們大部分都有比對過事實上要提供的資訊都一樣,就是時間、地點可是他這邊有講到各施施的狀況所以我們會針對兩部機組的狀況針對機組的狀況沒有影響,我們就直接這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7368.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7389.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
好 那沒關係 那我想就是在事件發生時間以及它現在更新的時間點上面我們是不是可以在旁邊做個加注呢這部分我尊重你們的專業啦只是我覺得它這樣子的呈現方式可能是大家比較一目了然的方式啦比較清楚好 那再來下一個問題就是說因為我們其實都有做很多的兵推情境喔那我們現在是有火災的版本嗎我們現在有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7395.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7419.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我們現在有是不是那是這次剛好沒有因為我看這幾年的演習都沒有火災跟委員報告有我們每年火災基本上都是閉演的項目閉演習的項目是嗎所以這個是另外就是針對一些特殊的情境是嗎可是每一年我們都會做幾次火災的演習就對了是的OK好那謝謝那再來最後一個問題喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7421.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7437.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
是說去年的時候我有質詢是說因為其實輻射安全對於小孩子來說也非常非常重要嘛那我也非常感謝就是和安會呢其實就找了許多的兒少團體一起來做討論看如何把這個文宣做得讓小孩更看得懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7438.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7462.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那其實我從這些團體的回饋也都覺得他們對於核安會的現在的做法也都保持一個肯定那我現在就想要了解在接下來的進度就是輻射安全校安包目前我知道你們已經要選定了幾個國中北中南的幾個國中小的老師一起來研討這個校安包要怎麼做那我想問一下我們有沒有一個預定的時程呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7465.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7487.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
跟委員報告這個因為其實針對這個國中小的這個教案其實我們一直都有在跟地方政府的這個學校在做溝通那我們後續原則上還是會參考上次跟這個這個一些學者專家提供的這些意見那我們目前因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7487.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7511.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
各地方政府也有在推啦所以事實上我們針對這一塊原則上是在協助地方政府用他們的比較接地氣的方式因為事實上每個區域他針對的這一些他有他的特殊的風情或者學校是不一樣所以我們是目前的做法是配合他們來調整來修正來協助他們做這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7512.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7528.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以我們目前因為我聽到的說法是說你們現在是跟基隆屏東還有新北的地方政府一起合作嘛等到我輻射教安包的時候會再請專家學者來給意見嗎但是你現在我現在就是在問什麼時候你們會做到一個初步的階段可以請專家學者來給意見啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7529.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7551.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
目前我們倒是沒有把這個因為我們還要跟地方政府討論出來什麼樣所以這部分我們目前沒有訂定期程可是沒有訂定一個期程的話大家就不覺得這件事情一定要排在他們工作室下我們會在因為每年都會針對這個項目會做一個檢討其實我們會來把這個我們會依照委員的建議我們把它拉到 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7551.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7569.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
對 但我們現在就是想要知道時間嘛那這樣子好不好你可以跟地方政府討論一下預估的一個時間這樣子我們才可以知道說我們是不是在今年可以完成這件事情那這個詳細的如果你們討論完這個時間大概什麼時候可以給我呢大概要多久時間跟地方政府討論好 我們看看我們是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7572.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7584.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
多久的時間可以討論我們盡快我們只是初步討論而已啊討論一個時間點對啊那我總是要追你的進度嘛那你總是要勾個時間吧是好好好謝謝啊謝謝好謝謝張雅玲委員主委請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7606.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7611.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
好 那我們有請易經委員好 謝謝 謝謝主席有請陳主委主委早委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7623.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7641.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
上個禮拜五藍白兩黨聯手將重啟核三這個公投案進夫二讀那這個提案其實不僅完全不科學不理性不務實那而且還滿滿的惡意指向了屏東人 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7642.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7660.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
罔顧在地居民生命財產安全周村民縣長發文痛批河山廠運轉至今40年5月17日即將完全除以正式走向歷史屏東人長期承擔風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7661.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7683.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
終於碰到這一刻 在野黨卻完全不尊重屏東人以粗獵的過程提出不負責任的公投 令人痛心至極我想本席也要再次強調不要讓今天的決定 成為明天的困境依照核管法第六條的規定核電廠的機組本來就應該在運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7688.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7709.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
實現這個戒制前重新進行安全評估的作業否則就得依法停止運轉那並著手處役的這個作業所以它各項在法規裡明定的時間就是所謂的運轉的年限這個 換照申請的法令期間那這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7710.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7735.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
無非就是為了所謂核電廠的安全來做考量那現在藍白這群荒謬的政客竟然用這種專業來扭曲政治來扭曲專業那無視於這些所謂這些時間這些時限所代表的安全的意義所以我想請教主委是說作為核能安全最高機關核安會的你 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7736.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7745.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
是否同意這個法律中依法明文的年限的換照的期限就是基於他的安全考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7746.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7770.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
主委提案是委員的權利我是問你說這個法規規定有個安全的年限這個年限是不是就是安全的考量為什麼要定40年為什麼要定所謂的如果你要申請研議你要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7772.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7796.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
你的辦法是定5至15年前要來提出那為什麼要有這些年限是不是安全的考量是的是嘛 對不對所以等於是你如果完全不按照這個年限來走特別是為什麼一個核電廠要定40年要除役是不是就是安全所以超過了40年是不是就有嚴重安全的疑慮超過40年的話如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7801.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7807.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
要研議的話必須重新評估所以我們說到安全賴總統在全社會防衛任性委員會的成立跟相關的演練下關鍵基礎設施的防護就變成相當重要的一個課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7820.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7835.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那我想核電廠的安全的管制應該也要在留意各式各樣的威脅尤其我們如何從所謂的災害中來渡過威脅並且恢復它的正常運作我想我們面對像現在烏俄戰爭無情的戰火下烏克蘭的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7840.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7866.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
砸菠蘿熱的核電廠它就反覆遭到這個炮火的攻擊那電力就會反覆地中斷那我們知道說核安會跟台電你們平常就有在辦理因應這些突發狀況或者是軍事衝突的核安演習所以我想提醒核安會的是說假設災害先行發生軍事衝突才過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7869.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7885.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那你們到底在應變上是不是會增加難度那你是不是有想過這樣的可能的發生的順序那你要如何的應對 主委是的 我們過去也評估過這方面的議題一般來說我們認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7888.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7914.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
他們只不會直接攻擊核電廠但會有可能會攻擊核電廠周邊的地方當然這也是會造成恐慌是所以你對於這些演練你都有做一定程度的這個包括我剛說的吧有些是所謂的天災有時候是軍事的威脅那這些如果混在一起的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7915.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7932.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
你都有做這樣的完整的演練過嗎我們在PT推演的時候有推演過這個方面的事情好 那我頭要請教你說同樣攸關這個安全防護就是游離輻射防護法的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7933.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7960.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那核安會在原能會的時期其實它就已經有預告修法那也依照這個ICRP就是國際放射防務委員會的這個報告的指示進行全盤性的檢討那我現在就是比較納悶的是說那這部法既然預告期也結束了那麼久那這個會期到底有沒有機會送進來立法院來送審 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7961.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7966.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
有沒有機會這方面我們繼續進行中這個詳細請我們組長跟委員報告報告委員那因為就是我們有公告之後就徵詢了各界的一個意見那所以我們現在還就是一直持續的在滾動檢討中那包括委員給我們的一些的關切的議題我們都一直在滾動所以我們這邊是一直在持續的辦理中 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7985.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8003.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
後續如果也因為這要依法要送到行政院來去做一個審議那審議後我們就會技術的送送到立法院這邊來好因為我其實本席跟多位委員在上個會期我們在審查預算的時候我們其實就就叫和安會說今年來輻射的安全有那麼多的議題我們都需要被討論包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8005.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8026.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
空勤人員的這個游離輻射安全的防護的教育或者和安會相關的這個安全教育網的建置或者檢驗工程人員的安全保障等等所以我想說有關於新興的游離輻射安全的這個防護的議題我想這些你們都會納入修法裡面嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8028.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8052.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
包括委員對這邊也都會就是在納入修法那包括有一些是法或者是一個執法那也跟委員報告一下就是這一些的配套的一些執行的方案其實我們現在都已經持續的在做了像空氣能源我們現在有一個劑量管理的示範計畫那我們已經有請那個那個我們的一些航空業者來配合我們做這方面的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8053.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8078.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
好 那所以如果你這個彙整的意見之後應該不會太晚送進立法院吧 因為我覺得這個這個方法還蠻重要的 因為它欠到很多的行業的安全對 這邊我幫委員我們盡數 因為畢竟還是要經過行政院的整個的一個審議這邊要特別跟委員報告一下好 謝謝 謝謝主委 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8093.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8100.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我們接下來要請吳麗華委員質詢那在吳佩奕委員質詢之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝主席 有請主委好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8120.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8148.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
主委好委員好在上個月3月31號那天呢在我們的議場藍白兩黨他們利用人數的優勢直接把核官法的修法版本就送出委員會當時是不敢記名表決這個不敢記名表決就是代表心虛不敢對未來的歷史來做一個責任的交代對吧 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8150.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8158.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
就是不敢記名我們一般不太批評立法會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8160.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8182.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那就是這樣嘛沒有什麼理由不敢記名嘛但是呢民眾黨很多的立委提到上個星期還提出了一個核三恢復運轉的一個公投 進夫二讀他的主文是寫說您是否同意第三核能發電廠經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8184.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8196.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
整體安全評估後恢復繼續運轉那我就要來問一下主委核廢料存放議題算不算整體安全評估算的那請問核廢料問題解決了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8206.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8235.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
現在是核廢料分高階跟低階啦是啊這方面問題我想請我們主持人好沒有關係因為今天時間只有六分鐘我想高放核廢料有沒有法源目前國內有沒有法源相關的安全管理規定核安會都已經訂好了那目前經濟部設置專案辦公室他們準備訂選址條例那有沒有法源高放核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8236.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8252.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
高放的核廢料我們是依照放射性物料管理法在做安全管制就沒有嘛沒有法源就什麼都做不了嗎那低放的核廢料有法源因為之前我們有做一個所謂的長指設置條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8255.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8281.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那這個條例寫出來以後呢 也很尷尬為什麼 大家都很清楚啊它有選址 然後再公投當時的選址選出了呢台東達仁鄉跟金門的烏丘但是不了了之沒有縣市政府願意也沒有辦出所謂的公投完全就不了了之 嘎然而止 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8287.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8310.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
經濟部在辦理這個公投的作業過程中其實有徵詢地方的就沒有人願意嘛目前就是 現況就是這樣現況就是這樣嘛所以我才要說啊核廢料的問題都沒有辦法解決不管低階 不管高放那我不太曉得說整體的安全評估到底是還要談什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8312.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8340.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
連最低層的我們要處理核廢料的問題都還解決不了那黃論何安那談到何安齁我其實要講我自己有一個親身經歷我在1999年921地震那一年我剛好服務的單位位在潮州斷層帶它是屏東縣北邊的一個學校但是921地震 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8342.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8365.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
竟然影響到我們的學校所有的教室 地板 籠體 軍列變成一個圍籠所以當時還沒有遷校的概念也不得不就蓋了一個防震係數8.3的一個防震校園就原址重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8368.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8380.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
這麼遠921地震在南投造成很大的一個破壞但是位在屏東的我們就因為位在潮州斷層帶我們也被波及到 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8381.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8396.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那我在想 大家都知道 河山場它就是位在恆春斷層帶我當時的學校還位在潮州斷層帶 離600公尺喔我們的河山場離恆春斷層帶幾公尺 主委還有差1.1公里1.1公里 我當時學校是600而且921地震那麼遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8409.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8413.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那恆春斷層帶 過去有沒有發生過大地震很久以前有喔應該是 都會有啦 都會納入屏幕那請問一下 我們的核電廠能夠承受任何一次的風險嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8431.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8453.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
跟委員報告,在福島事故之後,河岸會有要求台電公司就參照美國的做法然後進行河一二三場場址的一些地震危害跟耐震補強那目前已經針對電廠的安全停機系統跟燃料的冷卻用過燃料池的結構進行安全評估跟補強 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8454.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8476.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那結果如何 非常安全目前都可以符合安全的要求可以承受多少核三廠按照美國的做法程序做下來可以達到1.384G所以你的意思是說你有信心來接受核三恢復運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8479.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8503.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
耐震補強跟繼續運轉是另外一件事情來看因為只要店長在運轉就是要確保他安全我現在要講的是說其實在地方確實有一些聲音那這些聲音是怎麼創造出來的我不得而知但是他們是直指未來沒有回饋金 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8505.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8513.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以這個部分5月17號停止運轉它其實還有25年的執行廚藝工作這25年請教一下有沒有核廢料存放回饋金 主委有沒有 有嘛地方不知道啊 有人危言聳聽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8531.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8556.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這廚藝執行期間的25年他們放的是高放還是低放報告委員經濟部的後端基金委員會裡面有訂定相關規定高低放的那個所以高低放都放在那邊嘛對不對所以繼續執行核廢料存放回饋金我覺得我講這些是因為民眾都搞不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8557.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8575.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們常常講談核能這件事很重要的是社會溝通但是顯然我們的社會溝通做得不夠好所以呢在這個部分我們是希望說我們對核電也好核安也好民眾都是一知半解那希望核安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8576.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8581.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
經濟部能夠針對這一些部分還有民眾的疑慮要能夠提出回覆並且加強核能安全的宣導相關事宜那這個部分我也希望我能夠得到一個報告兩個星期內那這麼多不同的意見其實就是代表政府不夠透明所以在這個宣導跟教育的過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8600.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8624.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我想我們很多的民眾都不太知道核能的危險程度跟未來地方何去何從所以這個部分我還是強烈要求先討論核廢如何處理再來重視核安問題好不好好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳麗華委員 主委請回我們接下來請吳佩奕委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8631.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8634.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
謝謝主席 我請何安慧主委好 我請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8643.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8646.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
主委好今天是我們核安會的業務報告那我也很仔細看了你們的報告的內容我覺得相當的重要除了一般國人較為熟知的核能安全以外也包含了核能科技我們核能的產業價值還有核能的產業應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8662.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8664.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那我們也關心因為我們整個政府中央政府各個部會的預算都有受到立法院的刪除跟凍結那我特別關心的是我們和安會今年度的關於委辦費因為有一個他有一個預算的刪除是叫做通刪 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8680.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8686.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那委辦費的部分我們是被通刪了10%這大概是1167萬那這個部分是刪除不是凍結所以我比較關心的是那會影響到我們哪些的委辦項目因為去年在審查預算的時候我也在交文會 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8699.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8719.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那當時對於委辦計畫很多的委員是有意見那事實上我看了一下我們的委辦計畫的內容其實非常的重要而且很多是跟我們的核能產業價值應用甚至民生醫療等等是有所相關的所以首先我想請教在我們委辦業務之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8722.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8736.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
這個衛星元件開發輻射驗證環境建構這個預算它是跟我們的衛星太空產業有所相關嗎有沒有誰可以說明是相關的請可以說明一下這是什麼樣的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8740.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8768.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
報告委員這個衛星源圈開發及輻射驗證環境建構主要是跟太空計畫是相關的因為現在低軌道衛星非常的流行那低軌道因為有太空輻射所以我們就要研究說某些組件或某些元件他要具備有抗輻射的能力或者是這些元件是怎麼去驗證他到底有沒有抗輻射能力這個我們的衛星源圈開發及輻射驗證環境建構主要就是在做這方面的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8769.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8790.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
所以這是我們跟太空中心還有幾個單位一起合作的台灣太空輻射環境驗測聯盟這一個計劃嗎是我們今年度的相關嗎我們在今年度的預算是這個計劃預算是我看了一下大概一千多萬啦所以我們今年業務是繼續進行嗎那受到通山的部分我們怎麼樣來調配呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8792.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8821.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
報告委員這個像所謂的委辦計劃如果說到通山有些是如果設備要更新他可能就是會往後延因為預算如果不夠的話他就會往後延或是有些計劃的一些辦理的譬如專家學者的場次啊可能就會受到影響所以但是我們在被通山的狀況下我們還是能盡力的讓在這個有限的資源下盡量的去達到我們原先的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8821.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8825.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
好 這個太空衛星以外我們委辦業務也有半導體光源設備自主能力建構這個計畫請說明是 這個因為我們現在國內的半導體的光源設備主要都是從國外進口那個金額是非常龐大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8839.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8861.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
所以在這個半導體光源就是EUV這一塊我們希望導入這個電漿的技術那讓國內有這個技術當我們在國外採購或是什麼引進的時候我們就可以有一些底氣我們大概就可以了解他們的技術然後未來是希望能夠朝向我們自己能夠發展研發來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8862.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8870.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
就跟半導體有相關的技術這也很重要我覺得也要多向國人來說明再來跟我們民生放射性物質有所相關這其實就是醫療驗測相關的啦能不能說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8874.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8894.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那報告委員那第三個民生放射性物質的這個設備的防護我們是委託學者能夠配就是因為我們工業上的應用業者也很多所以我們就是希望透過委辦的一個方式那學者來到到業者限地去做一些輔導然後去做一個教育訓練那讓他們在使用這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8898.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8908.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
游離輻射設備的時候的一些觀念可以再建立起來所以在這一邊我們的計畫還是有在執行但是有受到這個統三的這一塊我們有去調整一些那個服務的一個量體這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8914.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8924.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
好 謝謝第四項是民生商品它含天然放射性物質的例如說現在有負離子床墊啊 驗測等等這個計畫能否說明對 這個因為就是來自於韓國曾經發生負離子床墊的一個問題那我們有波及到所以我們在這一塊是建立這個因為民生用品很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8934.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8958.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那它涉及的這些負離子商品其實是最大的危害是冬氣所以在這一些的冬氣量測或者是一些技術標定上的一些研究技術我們就是在這個計畫裡頭去研究去建立的那確實也計畫還是有在執行但是一些研發的一些進度或者是里程碑有一點點的去做一個調整好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8960.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8983.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
各位 我們核安會的業務當中核能安全重中之重但是我們也跟民生產業都有所相關例如太空產業 醫療 醫農工等等所以我希望我們還是要跟國人以及我們立法院的委員多加來說明希望我們的預算是能夠讓我們的科研人才可以有一個比較好的環境放手的去執行 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8984.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8999.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
好最後我要關心的是因為去年審查預算我也關心過也就是關於我們和安會的成員的性別比例那同時呢因為這也是更加關鍵是我們全台灣核能人才的性別比例那目前我們和安會成員66%是男性女性是33%那我看了一下國際原子能總數 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9006.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9013.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
他有去做一個統計在全球的核能勞動力也就是核能人才當中女性只有25%男性佔了75%那所以這其實是一個全球性的現象當然我們目前手邊是沒有台灣全台灣的這個性別的統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9023.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9049.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我看了一下原子能總署最近發布了兩個新的計劃給這個河南會做參考第一個是瑪麗居里研究生獎學金計劃是針對學生就是只要是我們研讀核能相關的碩士的學生提供獎學金還有實習的機會第二個是針對在職的已經在任職的核能領域的女性的專業人士他提供訪問計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9050.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9054.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
所以第一個我是希望我們核安會可以將這個計畫多多的推介給我們台灣的核能的女性研究人才第二個我認為我們也可以參考因為有跟你們討論過我們盡力的來去提升在台灣核能的科研人才的性別平等好不好是的核安會也非常注重女性在這裡面的角色我們核安會女性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9076.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9094.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
比例是越來越高 擔任主管的比例也有一些所以這方面我的趨勢下去的話 我相信我們是樂觀的我們非常鼓勵女性從事核能或核安方面的工作好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9098.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9106.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
謝謝 謝謝吳佩儀委員我們主委請回那我們現在休息五分鐘佩翔委員不好意思我剛有宣告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9461.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9464.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會 我們接下來請林沛翔委員有請陳珠瑋好 有請陳珠瑋 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9491.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9512.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
各位核能安全是不容許絲毫妥協的那我相信說核能有其科學價值跟能源戰略意義我想這一點來講全國國人都應該一致的那我今天是要與相對來講是具體的市政跟社會的關注角度來提出質詢請核安會盡量是以正面具體來做回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9513.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9534.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
第一個當然是有關合一合二已經進入除疫的階段那這個除疫的階段這不是一個任務的完成而是另外一個更複雜更漫長的風險管理的開始請提議有關這些像是高放射性的廢棄物處理也好還是有關污染物的移除 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9535.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9554.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
甚至土地的再利用跟社區的安置這些議題我想請問河安會是否有具備長期追蹤這些長期的風險之法定權責跟資源呢是有的那有沒有公開廚藝各階段的時程跟環境監測的數據的標準格式 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9558.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9564.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
这方面详细的提升,我请组长跟委员报告一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9566.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9591.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
跟委員說明有關於廚藝整個25年的期程台電規劃出來都有在河岸衛的網站都有那有關於那個長子所在地的輻射偵測那台電公司的相關資訊也都有都有放在網上公民眾可以去了解好 那目前來講是不是已經跟地方政府包括新北跟基隆建立所謂災後廚藝安全監控的聯繫平台呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9597.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9620.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
沒有嗎不是說核能發電廠合一合二除役之後那地方政府的聯繫就關這方面因為我們知道說這方面還是有很多其他跟地方政府需要聯繫的地方除役之後不是單純就是除役而已那跟地方政府之間的除役後的安全監控聯繫平台是否有建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9624.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9646.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
跟委員報告其實目前新北跟屏東他們基本上都還有這個所謂的地方的這個核能安全監督委員會那事實上不管是運轉或者是除役相關的議題也都會提到那一邊去做一個報告跟說明那每一次這個台電公司也都會針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9647.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9661.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那個監督委員的要求提出相關的包括這個運轉除役後的期程跟除役後的委員關切的這些問題都有在這個監督委員會委員也都有提案來做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9662.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9679.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
好 謝謝那我想請問第二個議題第二個議題其實我們知道說在亞洲這幾年來最慘烈的河岸事件應該就是福島就是福島的核災那福島核災已經過了13年了那我們當初政府也承諾說過全面檢視 系統強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9681.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9697.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那針對說以下我想請問一下我們核安會針對我們這個核能發電廠的海嘯牆我們的應急的電源我們通風的備源跟我們數位化系統是不是都已經全數的升級完成呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9699.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9728.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
跟委員說明 福島事後 河岸外有一些列管的事項包括委員提到的一些硬體設備那另外還有一些軟體 包括運轉能源 電廠的一些應變程序都有那有關於那個電力設備 後備的電源都有去增設移動式電源車啊然後另外也增加重要廠房的水密門然後也針對地震的一些強化 耐震強化也進行評估跟補強 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9729.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9751.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
都已經完成謝謝您 謝謝組長特地提到地震因為我下一個問題就是說因為現在極端地震其實發生的地方不會只是單純說在地震帶而已而是什麼地方都有可能發生地震那針對極端地震甚至山崩所造成的冷卻失敗的冷卻失效的模擬測試結果是什麼呀有關至少河山廠吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9754.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9775.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這個在台電公司我們列管的文件裡面有一項就是針對應變的程序包括緊急應變然後複合災害的一些運轉操作這部分都有進行整合那也例行性的去測試演練 以上說明那目前結果是我們是測試到第幾級的地震呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9777.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9802.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
會依照我們參考美國的做法就是針對河伊河山場所在地320公里範圍內可知的一些地震都納入評估然後進行強化大概可以承受到幾級地震以河伊河山場來講已經可以達到氣象署所定的最大級別7級地震以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9803.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9831.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
因為這就是我本來是想問既然已經跟美國因為我記得是美日法這三個國家相對來講是在國際之間配配公認的核能強國那如果有跟他們一樣同行同步修訂的這個最新的災害標準跟這個演練參數那我想我就比較放心因為我們是希望說有更能夠實驗過後的實證資料跟持續改進的機制這樣對於我們的核能安全會有比較良好的一個保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9833.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9856.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
第三點我也想請教就是歷經來講這個軍演中國大陸的軍演這個是我們所謂的Clear and Present danger既迫切又實際實在的威脅那其實不管什麼樣的軍演尤其是在目前這個地緣政治複雜的時候我們台灣的核能設施會是我們是一個弱點呢還是一個堡壘 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9857.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9860.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那我想請問一下我們核能發電廠有沒有納入所謂的戰略基礎設施保護網呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9867.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9889.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
有那既然有的話那沈河安會說明說在解放軍演習的期間針對核能發電廠進行的防護評估跟沙盤推演是什麼假設他們真的想說現在核一核二在處理嘛那如果核三的話目前如果解放軍他們真的來攻擊台灣那目前來講核能發電廠準備做什麼樣的防護評估呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9891.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9905.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
跟委員報告基本上依照國際公約任何的軍事行動是不可以供給核能電廠這是先跟委員做個說明但是也不排除說會有像譬如說像俄烏戰爭 札波羅的電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9906.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9928.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
之後事實上會裡面就把相關的這些情境我們就已經納到我們每年的河岸演習的一個兵棋推演的一個過程這邊可以跟委員報告就是當我們知道有這樣的一個軍事威脅的時候首先當然就要針對場裡面的維生跟維運相關的物資的準備人員的部分就要補足充足 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9929.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9947.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
隨時應變那因為基本上是後續的話當然我們就會依照可能發生的情境再做一些推演所以我想這部分我們自從俄烏戰爭之後這個議題一直都在融在我們的荷蘭演習的情境裡面以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9949.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9974.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
好 因為核能發電廠其實是我們很重要的戰略應該講起來如果發生戰爭不發生戰爭會發生戰爭這個核能發電廠都是我們國家很重要的一個資源那我也想說我認為我們核能發電廠是不是有具備我們電力不管是電力冷卻水源還是通訊備源系統是不是有獨立的評估那我想今天我的時間有限我希望核安會在後面會後可以給我詳細的書面資料以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9978.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9983.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
好 謝謝林沛翔委員 主委請回我們接下來請范雲委員好 謝謝周委 有請主委好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10001.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10027.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那個陳主委應該現在還是早安我想剛剛有幾位委員都有講到就是上禮拜五台灣民眾黨黨團在院會臨時提出公投案那試圖通過公投針對第三核能發電廠他們覺得用他的話語叫做繼續運轉那當然主文是問說你是否同意在經過整體安全評估後恢復繼續運轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10028.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10052.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那針對這個問題我想剛剛主委有談到您的用語叫做local consent是不是local consent就是翻成中文就是在地同意對那我們來看其實針對演藝的事情我們沒有一個法規清楚的規範要怎麼行使評估安全評估怎麼行使local consent可是我們根據 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10053.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10072.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
低放射性廢棄物最終處置設置場址設置條例候選場址光一個低階的放射性廢棄物的候選場址本身都必須要經當地縣市公民投票同意才能夠成為候選場址 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10073.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10085.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個部分很明確就是local consent嘛在地同意對不對那可是呢你也可以看到光就是說剛剛武力華為也有提到金門烏丘跟台東達人被選為低階放射的這個候選常識他們依法要進行地方公投他連辦都拒絕辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10094.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10115.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
他覺得辦好像就已經變成是有可能同意了所以地方政府的立場是非常的清楚喔那依法他應該要辦他拒絕辦所以你這程序又走不下去嘛所以地方政府就直接跳出來反對了就沒有local consent了對不對所以我們才會核廢料連低階的喔那也要反駁一下剛剛居然有 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10116.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10134.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
民眾黨委員講全世界只有芬蘭有最終處置場意思就是說大家都沒有最終處置場高階的所以現在繼續有核電廠沒問題他忽略了一個重要事實很多國家其實有低階的處置場人家地大物薄跟我們非常的不一樣我們現在是連低階的 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10140.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10165.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
而且就是還不是最終這個處置廠的候選場址都沒有當候選人都不願意了更何況是最後被選定那所以我想國際上我們查一下1976年美國加州全民公投就訂了法律禁止在該州建造新的核電廠禁令到現在仍有效日本1996年的日本新系現捲釘 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10168.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10195.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
就經由地方公投案否決卷町核電廠的建設2014年瑞士博恩邦曾對核電廠是否應提前關閉進行過地方性的公投那我們可以看到就是以媽媽企業行動聯盟的資料依照日本核電廠的慣例啟動之前會先徵得地方政府的同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10195.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10222.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
所以他們最近沒有得到地方的同意想要在日本最大的新系線博齊那個字怎麼唸義語合電廠就是要有這個那結果呢就有14萬人連署他們要公投因為依日本的慣例你這個部分其實是要公投的那我們其實已經看到地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10223.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10244.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
周春米 剛剛林怡瑾召委也有提到 周春米縣長就很直接講這個多數暴力要公投這個部分 而且在立法院是禁富二讀那事實上沒有尊重屏東人的意見 屏東人的生命安全他最後寫 屏東要安全 屏東要繁榮 屏東人的命運由我們自己決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10245.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10260.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
那天我們屏東的立委現在鍾嘉斌也在場待會應該也會繼續表達還有莊瑞雄就是幾位屏東的委員都表達反對所以這件事情有屏東的local consent嗎那個主委以你現在看到的事實認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10264.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10282.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
看來是沒有看來是沒有嘛那您同不同意這個公投投下去非常的粗暴完全我們跟民主國家比日本我們現在很驕傲我們好像在一些評比比日本還民主那這樣子是符合民主精神嗎這個公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10283.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10304.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
沒有local consent您剛講您的專業都知道要local consent連個核廢料低階這個候選場址都要local consent了那這個完全忽略地方的民意那這是不是一個不尊重民主程序的公投案以您了解的local consent有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10308.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10318.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我想我們的立場就是尊重公投法還有立法院的決議來辦理尊重公投法公投法裡面有講那個低結核廢料需要local consent嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10322.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10343.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
因為以低階核廢料這個選址條例它算是特別法然後Geno的公投法是這個不是屬於地方公投的事項這就是我希望你們去了解的低階核廢料因為這裡把這個local consent具體明文化了所以候選長址就得不到同意就走不下去因為地方政府都反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10343.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10351.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那今天呢就是因為我們這個研議的東西沒有一個很清楚的法規針對安全評估怎麼樣要處理也要local consent所以現在會出現這個粗暴的這個河山研議的公投案完全不尊重屏東的縣政府屏東的立委那他們的表達意見就是他們反對立委選出來當然代表民意嘛縣政府 縣長選出來代表民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10373.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10396.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那主委你是不是可以去研議一下就是比照低放射性廢棄物最終處置設施長指設置條例那相關的研議最壞的情況如果這個粗暴公投通過的話當然我們是反對的那是否你可以去研議相關的修法就比照低放射性廢棄物最終處置設置長指的設置條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10398.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10419.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
你建一個核電廠,當年40年前台灣不是個民主國家啊你40年後,你滴接核廢料都要當地居民的同意了剛剛主委的專業術與local consent那是不是也應該把這個精神放在相關的研議與否安全評估的法規中呢可以去研議吧,我請你研議喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10423.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10445.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
主委這裡有主委來打好了好不好去研議好嗎有關研議部分目前是沒有需要公投目前沒有但是我們是可以修法嘛您是主管機關和安會嘛這個低放射性這個最終處理場設置條例是不是你們也是相關的主管機關對是嗎對那既然你們這樣可以比照它去研議吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10448.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10453.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
演繹 主委演繹當然是可以討論的議題那就請主委去演繹好嗎可不可以演繹三個月之內給我們一個報告給本席一個報告初步的就好看看其他國家的經驗好不好好謝謝主委謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10468.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10477.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
好 謝謝范雲委員 主委請回我們接下來先來處理臨時提案 那請宣讀核電廠終有廚藝之日 美國核能管制會專家曾表示如果核電廠不停機就成交廚藝計畫書輻射量尚未穩定降下 對於輻射前置調查作業恐欠缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10493.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10506.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
準確的估算例如反應爐區的管線反應爐壓力槽和燃料棒之間的空間等及無法掌握輻射量多寡無法準確掌握輻射污染程度及無法 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10507.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10529.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
準確掌握廚藝過程需要的清理經費及人力需求為避免紙上作業的拆除計畫書與實際現場執行產生嚴重落差導致最後廚藝經費暴增或造成輻射擴散危及周遭居民及第一線廚藝人員的健康或使輻射污染繼續殘留在核電廠區等嚴重問題建請核安會對於核電拆除計畫書應嚴加審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10535.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10550.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
同時為以籌謀加緊培訓專業廚藝人員並對河山二號機停機廚藝工作盡早嚴謀因應並向善盡河岸監管之者提案人林怡瑾、郭益晴、張雅琳、范雲等 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10553.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10574.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
好 謝謝 這個案子是本席的臨時提案我想我的目的就是要要求那個核安會要針對即將停機的這個核三二號機無論如何一定要嚴加審查這個拆除計畫書那以及廚藝的一切這個相關的工作那同時也要有足夠的這個專業的廚藝人員來保障這個職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10578.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10601.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
安全的情況之下讓相關的廚藝工作可以落實安全能夠被確保那請教委員有沒有其他意見少一位對少一位等一下再處理等一下再處理好好好來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10603.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10627.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
喔 來了來了OK OK 好那如果沒有其他的意見 那那個河安會主委這裡河安會可以同意這個提案OK 好 那我們這個案子就照案通過好 謝謝那我們接下來繼續質詢我們首先先請鐘嘉斌委員時間4分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10639.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10646.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
主席、在場委員、先進列席的總統、江蘇黨官員、會長、觀眾夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生有請陳主委好,陳主委主委好文藝好我知道主委是,請看下一頁主委也是文學造詣很高,我們來研究一下文學 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10662.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10685.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這是一個民眾黨的公投提案文它說恢復繼續運轉請問恢復跟繼續有沒有衝突啊恢復就是做一件事情停下來然後要恢復再去做對不對那繼續是什麼就是一直做一直做嘛那請問您的語文的認知什麼叫做恢復繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10690.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10703.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我這是沒有科學的問題,是文學的問題,你認為這個公投是要做什麼?修詩學的問題,我不敢說我是專家啦。你的認知,一般人看到這個是怎樣?到底何三長幹嘛? |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10705.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10731.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我猜就是要它要運轉就對了繼續運轉就對了繼續運轉但是好了我們看一下來另外一個常識的問題請問主委下一題你知道我們目前台灣的發電的配比吧火力發電燃氣的四成七燃煤的三成然後呢其他的有大概三成三趴綠能已經超過大概十二趴核能不到五趴是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10733.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10756.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
跟你的認知一樣啦 好 我們看一下晚一些但是呢 用電量我們看一下目前以裝置容量來講 北部是沒有核能的中部是沒有核能的 只有南部屏東有951MW然後呢 我們看看用電用電的部分 哪裡用最多 北部用最多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10758.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10778.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
發電的部分哪裡發最多?南部發最多嘛所以是不是可以合理推論目前我們的發電裝置是以南部為主而且供應可能以北部來使用,可以這樣說嗎?南部發電量是比較大北部用量多嘛,所以是不是南電北送,好往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10779.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10796.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
所以今天有很多人在關心電力不足所以有人主張核電那有人說到未來的AI發展還有那個Data Center數據化的部分會推升那你覺得這樣的一個用電台灣的用電區的推估你覺得有它的合理性嗎是要繼續用電會增加嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10806.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10824.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我現在是問常識啦那麼未來的用電需求是北部上升的會比其他地方來的多這個推論又是可能啦好那我們來看一下大概是你們的專業了再來說核電廠營運這樣的情況往上就是有人說要讓他 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10826.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10853.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
運轉要停止那停止要五年前申請換照有沒有這個法律規定有有這個法律規定好我們再看下一頁那麼目前河山廠有沒有已經超過了申請換照的期限有沒有有有嗎好已經不可能了嘛因為呢兩個都在一個在去年的四月七月二十七一個在今年的五月十七而且呢除疫計劃也審核通過預定什麼時候會取得除疫許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10856.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10876.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
五月還平 除役許可 好 那往下看那所以一旦除役之後 目前法條規定是不是叫做永久停止運轉是的好 那麼不管有人要他繼續運轉 或者恢復運轉 要不要修法要那目前法有沒有在修 修過了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10878.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10900.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
還沒有好所以呢一個公投主文要恢復繼續一個衝突的語句在法條上它不存在能夠馬上運轉的可能性但是現實上台灣未來的用電需求增加北部比南部更多那請問我們最後一題來是不是未來如果說要恢復 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10907.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10918.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
核電要恢復使用 第一個要通過修法第二個 用電竟然在北部 您覺得那如果真的要恢復核電是不是核一核二比較符合用電地區的需求啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10922.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10948.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
主委這部分恐怕台電比我更適合台電變得更清楚,好沒關係接下來我想大家就講很清楚了這個主委是我們課級的很受尊敬的領袖啦那我等一下就說侯羅維,我們主席比較聽話啦一般來說啦,像這種情形喔,在香港來說啦你在用電,我在吃辣,就是私道又不是貧道,叫做臭俗辣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10949.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10972.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
主委聽懂嗎聽得懂所以我們就知道為什麼有人會被說臭俗辣就是這種提案呢就是稀得又不是平得北部在用電北部的核電廠都不用恢復運轉南部用電少又要南部來承擔風險我請主委可以把這樣的嘗試的方式呢來跟其他的周邊的人分享以上的諮詢 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝鍾嘉賓委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10978.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10980.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
主委請回我們接下來請楊瓊英委員謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言邀請主委好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11002.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11026.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
本周一是世界地球日總統也接見了全國的NGO團體環團代表也特別針對了核能發表這個看法總統也表示核能的議題需要凝聚共識政府將持續穩定供電開發多元的綠能他也不排除任何有助淨零的方案行政團隊對於未來新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11029.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11053.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
先進的核能技術保持著開放的態度但是也特別說任何的政策變更都必須滿足核安、核廢、社會共識才可能來進行那在這樣的一個說法本席要請教主委核安會對於核能發電的立場是什麼總統以及行政院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11054.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11070.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
還有我們的經濟部的郭部長他都表示了對於先進的核能技術採取開放的立場那核安會的態度呢請主委說明核安會也是對先進核能技術採取開放立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11070.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11099.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
也是開放的立場好那我們繼續來討論核能的爭議最主要的就是在核廢料好像目前還沒有解放但是核廢料沒有辦法處理的這一點引起了大家的一個疑慮那過去核電科技再怎麼進步都去不了去不掉這個核廢料的處理還沒有解放的陰影但是我們看到最近日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11100.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11119.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
日本原能所宣布開發出首款的核廢料充電電池雖然沒有辦法一舉解決所有核廢料的問題但是我們至少期待已經有看到曙光日本原能所正式宣布以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11120.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11127.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
為活性物質設計出新款可充電的電池呢日本原理所他號稱喔這款的充電電池呢電壓達到1.3伏特那麼接近了鹼性的這個電池的1.5伏特所以本席在這邊請教主委目前河岸會對於日本這個先進技術我們了解的程度是如何那麼我們國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11147.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11170.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
是不是也有類似像這樣的一個研究在進行中你認為它日本所宣布的這是不是也可以來解決核廢料的一個面向請說明我們有 核安會有注意到這方面的消息是 先請高院長跟委員長說一下好 院長是 這個我們有掌握 是基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11171.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11189.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
核廢料電池用核廢料來處理事實上國營院三年前也做過一個研究但是發現這個CP值都非常的低包括日本這個研究它是用一個含鈾的電解液它甚至說可以到1.3快要接近了減進了1.5伏特 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11191.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11212.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
對 他認為有穩定電力的供應但是我們國內要把鈾用過核廢料做鈾的分離受到美國跟國際原子能所總署法規的規定有限制所以我們不可能從用過核燃料去提煉做再處理我們不可能 但是我們還是有其他的研究是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11212.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11231.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我們有其他研究也會注意 密切注意中國大陸 中國方面也有類似的研究所以我們希望看全世界各國有哪一些面向我們當然都要集聚這一些的智慧跟解決方案限制 所以沒辦法從何非料所以一定要好好的去跟世界接軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11232.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11242.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
哪一方面有哪一方面的面向的一個方案我們都可以拿回來作為借鏡好 那接下來本席要請教我們的這個核廢料它分為高低放射性的廢棄物那目前我們高的部分是用過的燃料棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11254.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11264.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那其餘的我們歸類在低放射性的這個廢棄物目前我們國內僅針對於低放射性廢棄物有最終處置設置場址設置的條件的這個條例主管機關單位是我們的核安費那主辦單位是經濟部高的部分呢高放的這個處置呢到目前為止我們還沒有法源 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11281.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11289.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
所以目前政府傾向維持高放跟低放來分開立法的原則那麼我們現在河岸會也改組為安全管制機關經濟部將擔下高放的選址立法的責任經濟部現在也緊鑼密鼓地在籌設放射性廢棄物處置的專案辦公室所以請教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11310.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11317.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
在目前我們的核燴料的處置上面 核安會你的角色功能是如何你又要怎麼樣跟經濟部來分工合作 請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11322.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11347.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
目前處理高階核廢料當務之急是興建乾式儲存設施本會會繼續監督台電推行的計畫這是當務之急高階核廢料還沒到最終處置的時候將來因為有科技進步有很多新的方法來處理包括把高階核廢料轉換低階核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11351.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11378.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
這個技術一直大家都在研究我們相信未來會有一些成果出現一直在研究未來會有一些成果出現那經濟部現在他們正在籌備這個專責的辦公室那未來我們和安會要怎麼樣跟經濟部去做合作的這個事宜呢現在新的專責機構最重要的是跟地方的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11379.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11403.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
就local consent無論如何有沒有核電廠都一定會有核廢料所以第一屆核廢料儲存廠一定要有地方放所以這方面的地區的溝通地方的溝通是非常重要這是關鍵所以專責辦公室專案辦公室的重點是在跟地方來協調對對對所以你的說法是如此嗎院長要不要再說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11409.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11427.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
報告委員那個經濟部的專欄辦公室他的主要工作一個是高放處置的選址法案推動那另外他還監做高低放廢棄物選址作業以及必要的地址調查跟社會溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11429.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11440.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
好 我們也就是希望既然政府有這個專案辦公室那在整個的合作事宜我們希望能夠這個緊密結合這個才能夠達成這個效能嗎是的好 加油 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝楊瓊英委員所有請回我們接下來請萬美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11455.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11458.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
好 謝謝趙偉 我們要有請陳明正主委好 有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11465.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11488.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
主委好 我想我們這個台灣核電廠將要在這個下個月核三廠二號及廚藝之後正式停止核能發電但是後續的這個廚藝程序仍然是漫長而且複雜的工程包括燃料移除還有設備拆除的準備那以及低放射性廢棄物的處理等等我相信都必須要非常的謹慎來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11490.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11519.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
那但是核電廠停止運轉之後某一些類型的低階核廢料原來要透過核電廠中的減容中心焚化爐來焚燒以減少低階核廢料的總量其中我們有看到一個數據在核二廠的焚化爐大概就要再燒27年那這部分會不會關係到核安跟公共安全請您簡答我們這方面已經做過準備了那會不會關係到核安跟公共安全您只要回答我會不會就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11521.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11545.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
不會不會不會處理不會不會影響公共安全就是說是會影響到只是你們會處理應該是這樣說啦如果說不會這個你就真的是這個不知道你在打什麼好來我們來看那個上週核二廠就是有傳出在111年中招標的簡容中心焚化爐系統更新工程有一個弊案 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11546.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11546.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我們馬上有做調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11565.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11584.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
這方面是疑似的所謂的弊案是有關焚化爐結果是什麼 你不要把我的問題拿來當答案重做一次調查結果並不影響核電廠的安全並不影響 但是有這件事 對嗎疑似有這件事 你又說疑似有然後又說有調查 只說不影響我覺得這個主委可能要再嚴謹一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11592.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11612.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那所以你說不影響 好 聽起來目前暫時沒有安全的疑慮可是我覺得這件事情讓人家非常憂心你看這個廠長在這個任內疑似多次圖利特定廠商那去年還被指控利用限制性招標的手法協助了同一家的業者取得了簡榮中興焚化爐SKATA的主機的採購案這個主委知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11620.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11641.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
但是我們知道這個主機的系統很重要它對於關鍵基礎設施等等它的這個系統是負責監控跟管理焚化爐運作的一個關鍵的流程一旦真的發生問題不僅會造成營運的中斷可能對於我們這個員工人身跟公共安全會造成傷害所以非常的嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11642.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11669.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
所以我要請教一下主委目前我們對於核電廠各項廢棄物處理設施的建制包括乾式儲存廠等等會不會主動的參與台電跟廠商的驗收還是我們只是被動的在運轉之前來做一做安全的測試而已這主要工作是屬於台電方面的工作 詳細請問一下當然是嘛 所以我才問你說你會不會去參與台電跟廠商的驗收在驗收這個部分你會不會提出你的專業意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11671.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11696.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
報告委員 那個有關台電公司的招標那是屬於台電公司內部的管理問題那我們核安會負責安全的把關工作在剛才委員所提到這個SCADA這個系統其實它是原本已經存在減農中心的一個系統它就是一個伺服器跟一個軟體那我們核安會要求它做好啦 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11696.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11700.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我想我不是來跟你討論這個設備到底在做什麼的而是說我們發生這樣的弊案我覺得我們應該要更嚴謹一點這一些弊案都有可能涉及相關可能產生更大的安全的問題所以我覺得我們的嚴謹度要再更高一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11713.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11721.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那我想不管是核電廠的本身或者是有關核廢料處理的各項的設備都是涉及核安的剛剛本席有說過任何一個環節這個出了問題恐怕都會造成無法挽回的一個災害所以核安會我們不僅要更積極真的要強化這個對核電廠的一個監督那另外一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11734.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11748.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
針對非核安專業的包括像土木、機電或資訊等核電廠的工程我們有沒有具體的強化經濟的方案或者是定期請這個第三方相關的一個專家來協助查核有做這樣的事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11751.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11768.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
跟委員說明有關於其他非安全相關的一些工程那核安會在針對這部分之前已經要求台電公司針對包商的管理跟內部的管控這部分這樣啦 本席在這邊都是善意提醒喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11768.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11789.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
所以我希望核安会是不是能够在一个月之内跟本席一份强化核安监督精进的方案给我一个书面的报告那针对今天其实我们有很多担心跟疑虑我想这个报告在一个月之内我们把它整理一下整理的过程之中我们顺便大家能够更严谨地去对待可能面对的这些问题可以吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11790.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11808.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那再来我想再请教一个陈主委今年在这个一月份曾经率队查访已经厨艺的核一核二厂去了解厨艺跟干储设施的推动的进展那么也跟台电人员交流你当时在现场是不是有听到台电要跟这个核能发电处做整并有没有这件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11808.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11824.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
在当时我在这没有当时没有那可是我们看到核一核二厂已经进入厨艺的阶段核三厂在今年五月要正式厨艺那卓院长也有要求台电不能让核电厂管理人员因为核电厂厨艺而离开因为这都是我们非常重要的人才了 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11825.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11830.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
尤其我们看到在去年11月我们联合国气候变化大会上面也有讲到 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11855.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11873.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
是的,所以挖角這件事情國外一直有做這樣的動作對,所以當我們如果不重視的話可能這些人才就會被挖走好,陳主委,最後啦在一月份你訪視這個當中你也有在座談會提到說我們要汲取國際經驗做好人力資源管理跟經驗傳承 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11874.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11886.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
沒有說過這句話嘛對不對好但是現實卻是我們台灣核電人才逐漸一直在流失當中根據台電公司的資料核能發電事業部從2018年的2529人減為目前的1838人7年內減少了27%我覺得這個問題非常的嚴重所以既然那個院長有提出來那這個組委也有注意到但是呢我們要付諸實際怎麼樣去 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11901.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11907.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
而留住我們這些人才所以這一個部分是不是主委有具體的想法跟做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11908.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11935.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我們一直有要求台電保存這個核能人才的儲備而且我們也鼓勵年輕學子投入這個行業主委我這個現在時間有限最後一句話給你鼓勵這件事情不會讓現在發生的問題去做解決拿出一些實際的辦法去因應面對現在我們人才流失這才是重中之重好不好謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11937.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11942.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
好 謝謝 萬美玲委員 主委請回我們接下來請洪孟凱委員主席謝謝 麻煩請陳主委好 有請陳主委好 主委好 何安非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11966.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11992.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
前兩天這個世界地球日賴清德總統也說接見環團的時候有講到對未來的新核能技術保持開放的態度環境部長說沒有所謂非核家園非核家園不是行政團隊的神主牌有看到嗎對的那我們都不知道說那這樣子現在民進黨過去一直在野的時候強調的非核跟現在又可以大轉彎然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11994.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11998.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
臉不紅氣不喘我們也覺得非常的感到非常的精細是和戲不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12000.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12027.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
如果說真的沒有所謂的非核家園神主牌的話那態度很重要這不是只是嘴巴講講嘛那我請教上個月底我們有排審核子反應器設施管制條例管制法第六條的修正草案的時候沒有相關的版本不管是我們政院不管是我們政府不管是我們綠營的委員沒有相關版本身為主管機關主委你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12031.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12056.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我感覺這個版本已經很多了什麼版本已經很多 他沒有你們的版本主委 你是在開玩笑還是你是認真嚴肅的回答本席的問題嗎因為核安會是核能安全主管機關是核電要不要研議核子反應器設施管制法主管機關是誰明定這個法的主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12057.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12076.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
這是核安會是啊 前身是原能會現在是核安會啊那我們現在在講是說如果說政府也覺得說沒有所謂的非核家園沒有要死爆神主牌那要討論核電廠能不能研議現在世界各國 美國 日本有多少核電廠研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12081.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12108.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
有關核電研議的事情是屬於核能政策的問題研議的電廠大概100多所以這些研議的電廠是不是都經過安全的評估 專業的評估理性的評估 科學的評估是嘛 不然他們政府不敢放嘛那一樣的道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12108.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12126.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我們國家裡面河一場 河二場 河三場過去有沒有做過相關研議的評估安全評估報告河一場有將近有做評估河二場也有 河三場也有嘛河二河三沒有 河一場有確定喔 諸位 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12128.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12144.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
沒有送到河岸會來審查有做評估但是沒有送河岸會來審查還是沒做評估評估應該是台電內部的事台電內部有評估啊但是做完這個報告之後當然會有送相關主管機關啊沒有送過來確定嗎主委 確定喔我確定因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12151.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12174.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
本席後續還會再追這個議題但是我現在很清楚明白的確定是台電過去都有做核電廠的安全研議評估尤其是核三廠這個是本席很確定的部分再來第二個部分選址也是一個重點對不對核廢料的一個選址那現在我們看到說行政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12175.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12203.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
有已經有所謂行政院有所謂的一個選址辦公室那也希望能夠趕快來確定選址立法來送政院那其中特別有提到是說現在這個辦公室主任還沒找到但是對外的說法是說還會再找不管是台電不管是和安會的人員一起進入到這個辦公室我請教一下主委到目前這有沒有相關進度還是和安會有沒有接收到說到底這個辦公室要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12204.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12231.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我目前是負責人員已經找到了那開過會了沒還沒就任吧對外講法是說我們還會有河安會的人員也都一起加入沒有沒有有啊這新聞稿就直接這樣寫了不能我們準備資料比你們還要充分然後你不能講說新聞稿上面公開資訊上面不能講說沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12237.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12256.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
這個專案辦公室並沒有河安會的人在裡面主委要不要我拿相關的新聞稿給你因為這是我們剛查我現在只是很理性的想要跟你確認是說現在這個選址辦公室未來要怎麼運作河安會這邊有沒有了解那結果你現在這樣講那到底是誰說謊是政院說謊來大家去看中央社的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12265.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12281.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
經部核廢處置辦公室落腳板橋選址立院拼年底送政院4月4號中央社的報導其中裡面就提到居時辦公室也會從台電、核安會、學界、研覽、核電專業者參與核廢選址立法推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12286.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12293.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
所以你們是還沒有被通知到報告委員在經濟部徵詢專案辦公室主任的這個階段的時候曾經徵詢過一位退休的 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12302.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12329.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
核安會的副主委不過這位副主委他並沒有意願擔任那目前其實沒有核安會的人員去參加這個專案辦公室因為我們是安全監督安全監督角色跟這個業務上面會有會有是所以本席也會覺得就所以這主委這為什麼本席會今天提出來其實本席還準備其他問題也是要問就說這樣子我們會不會有球員兼裁判的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12331.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12357.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
核安會如果說要派人因為這個是正式的新聞稿4月4號中央社發出來的新聞報導就講說要延攬相關的人士進入到這個辦公室他講的不是說主任要是核安會的人派他講的是說未來運作要由相關不管台電學界以及核安會要有人員共同參與那這樣子我就會想問說那如果說選址出來完之後又再交給核安會審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12358.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12374.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那核安會是不是又角色多重一方面你是專業的判斷那一方面你又加入這個選舉辦公室那在選舉辦公室裡面你要用什麼樣的身份來給予什麼樣的意見所以核安會並沒有人參與所以那這樣看起來這個新聞是假新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12375.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12397.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
要不要做個澄清可以啊可以做澄清那是前副主委曾經被證明過並不是陳副主委嘛他現在講前副主委前任的副主委前任的副主委曾經被證明過但本席現在講的是說報導裡面這也是我們看到的時候就會認為是說何安會你是站在專業審查的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12397.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12423.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
你的角色不應該錯亂如果說新聞是錯的請澄清請要求澄清尤其是中央社也是我們相關的半官方機關如果說連中央社的新聞稿中央社新聞出來都會有錯誤的資訊的話那真的是假消息假新聞滿天飛啊好 我會請中央社更正好 謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12424.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12429.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
謝謝委員好 謝謝 謝謝洪孟凱委員主委請回我們接下來請張琦凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12452.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12456.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
主席,請陳主委好,有請陳主委主委你好,各位好這三個禮拜,我們台灣就是非核家園了民進黨這幾年已經把核一廢掉了核二廢掉了,核三廠到了5月17號又廢掉了,因為這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12478.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12504.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
我們的台電發電成本一年要增加一千億更嚴重的 民進黨如果繼續在匯合繼續在黨重啟核電會有幾個很嚴重的後果第一個 我們電價會繼續變貴第二個 會影響到我們人民的生命跟健康因為空污越來越嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12505.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12532.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
核能是低碳甚至是無碳的結果現在都是用天然氣跟燒煤來取代這全台灣的民眾都是受影響的我記得執政黨包括民進黨的立委今天在這邊問政都要負很大的責任如果有人因為空污身體健康受影響生命受到影響民進黨跟民進黨立法委員要負很大的責任另外也造成我們產業的發展我們的碳費變貴了 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12536.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12562.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
對不對 因為你燒天然氣嘛 燒煤嘛所以從剛剛講的電費從健康 生命安全一直到產業發展民進黨如果繼續在廢核在擋核能的重啟 後果是非常嚴重的我記得這全民去跟民進黨討公道好 民進黨一直在造謠今天是核安會的這個業務報告主委我請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12563.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12587.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我們台灣核能到底安不安全我先給你回答之前我先給大家看一下國際原子能總署啊曾經對全世界的這個核電廠做過一個評比台灣啊是最安全的第六名對不對各位我們核電安全是全世界有名的對不對對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12590.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12618.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
不只點頭 清楚跟全台灣的民眾講民進黨為了黨核能的配合一直在汙名化我們的核能安全台灣的這三座核電廠對我們經濟發展提供了多大的一個貢獻我們多少這麼好的核能的人才被你們這樣汙名化我們清清楚楚 注意 跟大家講國際原子能充足我們這全世界不只排名在第六我們的安全一直都被國際是肯定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12620.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12640.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
他做了非計劃性能力損失的這個因素啊代表一個電廠經過大修以後基礎如果再啟動是可以馬上維持這個安定滿載的電力的這個能力這個能力啊叫OUCL這個數值啊只要是越低表示它是越可靠性越高的第一個它是越安全的台灣擺地上結果民進黨長久以來為了要肺核 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12646.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12669.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
汙名化我們的河岸 也汙名化我們這麼多的人才剛剛在講 我們的人才都快被挖走了 對不對主委要把人才留下來 好不好第二個 民進黨一直說很不安全我們包括發生九一大地震 我們的核電有出現問題嗎剛剛主委講了一個很重要的全世界的核能大國 不管是美國 日本 法國 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12671.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12696.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
人家都很注意安全啊 科技一直在進步對不對而且一直有安全原念嘛憑什麼說我們的核能是不安全的只是因為民進黨一直在廢了 他們還停留在上個世紀好 第二個核廢料的問題我在去年的七月份啊 還實地去河山去考察他們清楚跟我講 我們的燃料棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12699.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12724.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
那個注意我們燃料棒你剛講的一句話很重要燃料棒反應爐用完之後一年半用完之後拿出來就放到燃料池嘛對不對對不對是河山廠清楚跟我講我們屏東還可以再用四年四到五年所以燃力是沒有問題的第二更重要的是我剛才說的啦全世界現在在處理核廢料都要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12726.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12742.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
先放燃料池對不對後來乾式雌蚊草對不對美國這樣做 日本這樣做 法國這樣做全世界都這樣做和未來都沒有問題只有民進黨說有問題民進黨是什麼 警禮之蛙 愛郎自大還是禮盲 還是造謠 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12747.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12767.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
而且最離譜的一點民進黨把核味料講得這麼恐怖我問一下那目前核一廠核二廠核三廠的核配料如果像民進黨這樣說了沒辦法處理要放倒你們不用處理嗎當然是主委講的嘛科技越來越進步會有全世界現在就放在乾式的儲存草裡面嘛對不對全世界都這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12769.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12797.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
台灣當然也是這樣做啊請不要再汙名化好我簡單的因為主席已經站起來了我簡單的講幾個童子賢講啊全世界都在用核能他說啊用核能可以幫台灣省下大概幾兆的經費美國鼓勵員都直接講了美國願意在核能方面幫我們全世界都在返回核能只有民進黨現在在對撞你是跟全世界潮流在對撞跟美國在對撞欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12799.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12818.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
剛核廢料我剛講過了連我問了外交部部長林佳龍他現在高官說這個談判啊可以找美國 美國都可以處理為什麼美國就找他們來幫我們處理核廢料嘛對不對也是個辦法嘛 左右點頭嘛 對不對好 剛在講民意台灣民眾黨最近做了一個民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12820.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12841.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
問說要不要使用核能 支持的64.5%不支持的23.8% 要用的壓倒性的勝利而且我們之前還有以核揚利耶民進黨不是說要重視民意嗎 要有共識嗎所有的民調裡面每次看出來要繼續用核電都被撤過六成而且要經過公投咧好 最後做一個簡單的這個結論昨天啦 我們的賴總統說 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12847.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12865.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
不排除新的這個核能的這個技術然後他講到三個 核安 核廢料跟社會共識剛剛我 注意我們剛剛討論完我們台灣的核安是安全的嘛 對不對這個有嘛 有解決嘛第二個核廢料可不可以處理可以處理嘛 對不對全世界都是這樣處理嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12867.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12890.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
對不對 對嗎全世界現在會有共同的處理方式對嘛 至少兩個 我覺得你今天講的兩個很重要全世界 美國 日本 法國 全世界先進國家都這樣處理第二個 科技在進步嘛甘蔗 春草就可以用五十年耶 對不對當然這兩個都可以處理啊所以河岸可以處理啊 河輝道可以處理啊社會共識 每次民調都超過六成所以包括我們提的河山重啟的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12893.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12910.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
為什麼要公投就是要加強社會共識嘛所以這三個老蔣都不是問題最後做個結論請民進黨如果繼續你要再黨和山我們修核安法球還是在民進黨的手上啊是不是你已經超過五分鐘了一分鐘抱歉抱歉沒有辦法沒有辦法我講到核安法 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12911.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12915.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我們修好完之後 要不要用核能還是民進黨 請民進黨想清楚你要讓電費繼續漲嗎 要繼續強害我們的健康嗎用燃煤跟燃這個天然氣來傷害我們的健康嗎然後讓我們的產業受到衝擊嗎如果民進黨不解決 請民眾直接找民進黨去負責好 謝謝 謝謝 謝謝張七開委員主委請回好 我們接下來請徐富奎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12949.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12953.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
謝謝主席 有請我們陳主委好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12960.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12979.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
主委我剛剛一直有聽到主委針對我們今天的議題一直在答覆的部分我強烈的懷疑這個主委的態度有沒有依法行政主委你認為自己是不是應該當一個依法行政的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12982.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13000.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
主委請回答是那請教主委我們今年5月17號核三廠二繞機除役的依據是什麼是依據我們核管法當年核電的使用年限是40年因為40年到期了 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13002.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13016.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
對 那是不是到今年5月17號是不是40年已經到了是的 是的所以是不是要依法除役是必須停機除役好 但是我們很遺憾包含剛剛我們在野黨幾位委員提到的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13017.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13036.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
我相信這個我們所有的行政機關大家都根據依法行政的態度在處理事情那過去我們在2002年的時候國民黨跟當時的親民黨立委修法通過了這樣子的一個相關的一個規定那就是要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13038.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13060.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
在這個1984年新建的河山廠這個有做一個實驗到就必須要做一個管制的一個措施但是最近突然又不知要吃死龜翻井竟然又提出這個研議要可以研議20年的規定但是依目前我們河山廠相關的一些設備也好 核廢料的處理主委你認為可以就這樣貿然直接研議20年嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13062.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13090.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
不能要經過評估要經過評估但是剛剛我很遺憾聽到主委好像並沒有很嚴正的把這個相關的一些規範跟態度說得很清楚我現在想更清楚一點40年前當時的原子能委員會合法執照是40年的運轉執照那是根據40年之內它原判是安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13091.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13096.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
40年之後當時是沒有做任何評估所以40年以後是不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13097.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13124.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
所以四天喉號要延長使用的話一定要經過延期的評估好主委那所以我們根據這個核子反應器設施的這個運轉執照的一個審查辦法第16條如果核電廠要研議必須在執照有效期限屆滿前5年到15年前就必須提出相關的一個評估對不對對是的但是我們並沒有做這樣的一個評估是因為我們認為時間到就應該做廚藝嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13127.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13152.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
當初政策是如此那現在即使我們要開放要重新走向一個重新啟動也必須要走相關的程序是不是難道可以用一個公投用一個公投就決定我們屏東人的命運嗎這必須要經過修法之後還要台電根據需要提出申請然後我們和安會才可以處理申請案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13152.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13179.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
好 主委我還是要再提醒你一件事情上個禮拜我在院會有特別強調包含我們許多的專家學者包含台大的退休教授陳文山都有提到我們河山場目前所在地的部分有一個橫村斷層的部分這個斷層長度高達51公里一旦如果發生錯動可能引發規模7以上的地震這樣子的一個危險的因素 河南會難道不曉得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13180.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13185.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
核安會已經責成台電做成評估要不要請再補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13186.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13215.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
好 跟委員說明喔那有關橫村誕辰在日本福島事故後已經要求台天公司要納入評估那也依照評估的結果針對店長的安全系統跟燃料池等進行評估跟強化好 那既然你們都有在做評估剛剛為什麼我聽到的部分你們並沒有很義正嚴實的告訴在野黨的委員這樣子的他們的質詢能量是有問題的根本不顧我們屏東人的生命安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13217.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13242.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
請你們拿出你們的態度好不好主委5月17號該廚藝就廚藝不能透過這樣子一個密屋的公投就要決定我們屏東人5月17號一定會停機然後甚至包含這個核廢料的處理我相信都有很多專業的問題要討論不是今天講說你一句話講說可以放四年就放四年說什麼台電的人講的我們從來沒有聽過這個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13244.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13254.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
這樣的錯誤的訊息 請不要以訛傳訛好不好我們一切都依法行政對 我們會依法行政好 請荷蘭會拿出你們應有的態度 好不好 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13257.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13279.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
好 謝謝徐富奎委員好 我們那個主委請回接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在我們請高金素梅委員高金素梅高金素梅委員不在我們請何欣淳委員何欣淳何欣淳委員不在我們請翁曉琳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13287.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13290.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
主席好 在這邊有請主委好 有請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13298.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13325.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
主委好本席因为过去我也参与过这个核安会的相关的原子能法的研究所以呢本席基本上认为原能会过去叫原能会现在核安会其实从成立以来至今下来就是依法行政我基本上对于核安会依法行政而且秉持专业去审查相关核电厂的这个安全措施本席是很有信心的我在这边想请教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13327.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13331.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
你們作為台電核電廠的主管機關應該是最知道台灣三座核電廠的安全性如何請問你們在這40年來的檢查過程當中有沒有曾經出現過有核電廠因為設備或是營運管理的缺失而必須達到要關廠停機的這樣子的一個案例你們有曾經有做過這樣的討論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13351.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13357.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
沒有 核電廠是必須符合安全要求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13358.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13387.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
核电厂也必须安全的这是核安会的职责是简单来说就是从原子能委员会成立至今到改组现在是核安会在你们过去40年的检验当中你们都没有看到发生过核一核二核三厂极为危险的情况简单来说就是你们认为核电厂是安全的吗台湾的核电厂是安全的吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13387.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13415.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
如果核安會認為核電廠有安全疑慮的話核安會一定會下令停機檢查是好那停機檢查之後就還是可以運轉嘛所以簡單來說就是民進黨口口聲聲說核電廠不安全的這樣子的一個說法從數據上面來看從核安會過去的依法行政執行的安全檢查來看基本上就是一個錯誤的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13417.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13444.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
台湾的核电厂是安全的,so far到现在台湾的核电厂是经过团会的跟以前原灯会的严厉监督之下我们是可以达到安全的要求好,很好那么我们知道其实现在有关于这个立法院正在讨论核电厂研议条例的相关的修法那我们也看到就是其他的国家不管是美国、日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13444.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13463.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
還有更多的國家其實對於核電廠的研議早就已經開始在做了像美國那麼甚至就是已經以20年為單位可以陸續的向後研議那麼日本呢也是已經批准了多座的機組可以延長運轉到60年請問主委如果說我們台灣的核電廠研議再延一個10年20年您認為安全上面會有疑慮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13472.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13476.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
只要經過評估才知道那麼請問何安慧現在有沒有開始做核電廠研議之後的安全技術標準的相關研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13485.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13502.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
河安會有我們的研議的評估標準所以對於現在我們的核電廠研議有可能研議那麼對於台電如果有提出研議申請那麼河安會這邊已經準備好了相關的安全技術評估標準嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13505.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13532.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
台電在以前提出核電廠研議的申請當時我們就已經審查的差不多了什麼時候提出過核電廠研議的申請98年98年的時候曾經有提出過所以那時候核安會就已經做過相關的安全技術標準的制定是不是你們已經有一套安全檢查的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13533.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13561.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
是嗎是的我們有參考美國的做法所以當時這套標準到現在還可以適用嗎應該還可以適用吧這個安全技術標準基本上應該不會改變的太多所以本席認為說其實因為現在立法院在野黨可以說是立法院的多數立委基本上都很支持我們的核電廠必須要研議我們會推動相關的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13561.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13590.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
雖然說之後核電廠到底能不能研議台電能不能真正的提出申請關鍵點還是在經濟部跟行政院可是我想核安會這裡應該要做好準備因為隨時隨地都有可能這個同意和台電的核電廠的研議申請那麼不能講說核電廠這個提出了申請之後呢可是核安會沒有做好準備那我認為這是極其不妥的所以呢也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13591.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13613.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
主委这边能够代理核安会的同仁然后好好针对研议之后的安全技术标准然后提出一个完整的评估报告好谢谢谢谢委员好谢谢翁晓琳委员主委请回再来请郑天才郑天才郑天才委员不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13616.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13640.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢關於今天的會議作如下決定報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢及相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料及未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速於書面答覆報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位 |