| IVOD_ID |
166164 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166164 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-03T12:17:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-03T12:27:30+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d5a4ce084af309d675c15b20d885003ac7cefddca96be5007a6b5dab78894310f0a2f51fd5bd8c715ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
徐欣瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:17:50 - 12:27:30 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、行政院函請審議「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。二、繼續審查委員王定宇等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第五十四條條文修正草案」案。三、繼續審查委員廖先翔等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條條文修正草案」案。四、繼續審查委員張宏陸等30人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。五、繼續審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。六、繼續審查委員王義川等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。七、繼續審查委員陳素月等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。八、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。九、審查委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員蘇巧慧等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員黃捷等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十二、審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十三、審查委員李坤城等20人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十四、審查委員翁曉玲等25人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。十五、審查委員翁曉玲等24人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十六、審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條條文修正草案」案。十七、審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。十八、審查委員李坤城等23人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。十九、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。二十、審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條條文修正草案」案。二十一、審查委員黃捷等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第三十一條、第三十一條之一及第四十條條文修正草案」案。【第一案、第十七案至第十九案如經復議則不予審查；第二十案至第二十一案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】
【12月3日及4日二天一次會】） |
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好 谢谢主席在座各位大家好本席有请这个法务部次长徐次长家次长委员好次长上次好像也是在这里本席有咨询有关不起诉处分人受告诫这件事那我们现在很多民众都是受害者我相信您也认同 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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那这个他们不起诉处分之后如果没有办法在30天的诉怨期那他就必须告诫账户就要5年嘛那本席请教一下那这个行政法的部分他这法条规定30天的诉怨期有可能比如说延长一点吗有没有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
55.358 |
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這個30天是救濟期間沒有辦法延長可以修嗎是根據那個溯源法跟行政訴訟法的規定那可以調整嗎這個除非修法嗎 對啊那這樣五年的告誡賬戶有可能縮短嗎也是法律的規定啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.241 |
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108.528 |
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這個應該是那個金管會是金管上次有問到我現在就問你你這個我們法務部的立場市長這暫停一下他們這個在溝通能不能請我們主任檢察官報告主任檢察官好那簡單說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
111.192 |
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139.747 |
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報告委員就有關於告誡的部分的話是依照洗錢防治法22條第6項所授權的執法具有它的相關法律效果那就22條的部分這邊有關於告誡的規定那判斷上還是以交付賬戶這件事情到底是不是有正當理由去做判斷它未必是跟是否存在幫助詐欺到底成不成立犯罪是切開來判斷的意思切開判斷我的意思就是說因為很多民眾不生其擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
140.528 |
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这个有没有可能五年减成三年依情节他只要是告诫他只要是诈欺账户就一定是五年是吗 |
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153.646 |
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不一定有跟詐欺有關他就是交付帳戶這種沒有正當理由的交付就是五年所以這個五年是不可能說的這個有評估過大概就是五年有點像觀察一樣不可能說的原因你一定要給社會大眾一個交代你看那一堆人留言所以我們要站在法務部的立場我要聽你們的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
185.298 |
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為什麼五年不可能變三年原因是什麼對 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
189.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
215.605 |
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還有一點就是說這個不是完全就是封鎖他的帳戶的使用我知道他臨櫃他有一些限制就是很不便這個其實他的立法的目的就是在於說不能輕易的在沒有任何理由正當的理由就把帳戶交出去這個設計上應該是可以兼顧很多你現在是在講你的目的我們都了解我現在再給你一點時間我時間其實快沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
217.984 |
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246.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
等於是為什麼不能縮短就是只能五年這個我們可能要再會後再研因為你們沒有思考過嘛好那我接著講沒錯這五年就是要告誡就像為什麼殺人那有一定重的刑責就是你不能去殺人嘛但是本席要說的是我們現在很多民眾他並不清楚這個然後在不清楚很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
247.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
261.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
无辜的民众那他不清楚他就就产生了这个情况然后也很不生其道生活上也造成很大蛮大的困扰那所以这个的宣导是不是很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
290.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我们都有持续在宣导可能不是不止我们包括我们卫生部还有相关的教育部都有在宣导所以这个宣导有没有成效才是问题当然我们常常行政单位都有宣导但是我们就看112年到114年到今年10月112年6月开始到114年10月这5年的告诫账户开始是在112年6月 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
292.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
到現在光是法務部詐欺案件中不起訴就有148192件這中間真正撤銷告誡賬戶的只有935件不到1%所以等於99點 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
309.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
99.3%的人呢37%的人呢通通這五年就要承受這個苦果所以我們希望這個宣傳真的要加強好 很快的我要再來到我們今天詐欺犯罪危害防治條例第46條46條 次長我想請教你這46條是你們法務部寫出來的條文嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
360.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你就回答我檢答是不是是行政院版是你們寫出來的條文是好你看看這個條文的精神是什麼也就是說詐欺犯了詐欺犯罪的他如果自首之後他要能夠減輕或免除期刑他必須要支付被害人達成他調解或和解的全部金額他要支付全部金額是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
362.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
380.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
又或者是他在供出首腦你有沒有去問過你們這個是根本是mission impossible這有可能嗎他根本付不出金額包委員這個我解釋一下這一個和解他的用意因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
380.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
406.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
有可能他車手他經濟能力是不夠你今天叫他整個詐騙的金額整個交付的所有的金額就是幕後的這個首腦他所有的金額都到叫這個車手來付那當然是他付不起嘛可是他個別他可以解釋他的狀況他認為說我擔任的角色我獲得的利益那我的能力各方面的態度我都自首了 我自白了等一下 等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
407.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
415.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
因為你這個是要跟被害人達成和解我告訴你被害人如果他被騙三千萬你認為車手拿多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
車手他可能拿不到搞不好拿10萬好那要和解的時候被害人有可能說好啊那沒關係啊你就給我10萬他10萬可能也拿不出來還有根本不可能和解因為我被騙3000萬我怎麼可能覺得我就10萬塊這第一個第二個你們這法條很好笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
464.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你第一個要這個和解的金額全部支付之後如果你還能夠供出你的首腦為什麼不是他願意供出首腦不用有第一項支付這個金額他願意供出首腦你也給他免除期刑啊你這樣才能鼓勵他供出首腦啊所以你們這個法條我真的覺得恐龍法條欸這個部分還有再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你這個部分本席提的可不可以調整因為我們還沒審嘛你的見解是什麼今天我最重要我要他供出首腦他願意供出首腦他錢交達不成和解交不出來我一樣可以免除期刑啊供出首腦這個被害人會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
503.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有感受的問題所以你這個是考慮到被害人當然這其中一個原因就是說你還是要填補你不能光一隻嘴巴說我要那最後最後執行面你這個和解在哪裡和解你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
503.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
520.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
和解沒有設任何的條件他可以在警察局他可以在律師事務所或者公開場所都可以和解不是誰要來協助他和解你沒有設任何的你這執行面有可能嗎今天一方要和解我們有鄉鎮市調解委員會所以你們竟然是設定鄉鎮市調解委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
524.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
沒有說設定就是說調解他沒有任何不是你這個法條出來我就問你你這個和解的單位在哪裡誰來負責嘛因為你這法條如果通過我問你誰來和解誰來調解所以調解委員會法院也可以調解對我知道就這兩個我就等你說這兩個法院可以調解相正式調解委員會也可以調解以現在詐騙案幾十萬件幾百萬件你確定OK我在這裡請你們回去審慎思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
554.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
578.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
調解委員會各鄉鎮市區公所我們就在猜這是給鄉鎮市區公所調解嗎還是法院來調解法院有這個能量嗎鄉鎮市區公所這個的調解OK嗎所以我們這是因為時間的關係不過我們在審查的時候我想也要好好的來討論我今天因為時間的關係你們回去好好想想好謝謝 |