| IVOD_ID |
166160 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166160 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-03T11:44:54+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-03T11:55:04+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d5a4ce084af309d68ecb79b0d7e926c9c7cefddca96be5007a6b5dab78894310b88d7f28b768b82a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:44:54 - 11:55:04 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、行政院函請審議「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。二、繼續審查委員王定宇等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第五十四條條文修正草案」案。三、繼續審查委員廖先翔等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條條文修正草案」案。四、繼續審查委員張宏陸等30人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。五、繼續審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。六、繼續審查委員王義川等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。七、繼續審查委員陳素月等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。八、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。九、審查委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員蘇巧慧等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員黃捷等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十二、審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十三、審查委員李坤城等20人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十四、審查委員翁曉玲等25人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。十五、審查委員翁曉玲等24人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。十六、審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條條文修正草案」案。十七、審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。十八、審查委員李坤城等23人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。十九、審查委員羅智強等19人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十六條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。二十、審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條條文修正草案」案。二十一、審查委員黃捷等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第三十一條、第三十一條之一及第四十條條文修正草案」案。【第一案、第十七案至第十九案如經復議則不予審查；第二十案至第二十一案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】
【12月3日及4日二天一次會】） |
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好 主席謝謝麻煩我們請警政署署長跟我們法務部次長加署長加次長好 署長我先請教12月1號我們打債儀表板 |
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我們打詐詐騙的金額有多少12月1號就大概2億多2億多2億4千5百萬對就是12月1號就是12月開始了沒錯因為你現在打在儀表板上面只有12月1號的數字昨天的還沒有出來對昨天的應該是會在前天的會出來這是前一天的好那9月呢 |
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42.236 |
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九月我們全台灣被詐騙的九月大概七十幾億吧六十七億十月大概六十億十一月大概五十九億五十九億九千萬所以其實十月跟十一月幾乎一樣就差不多六十億再加上您剛剛所證實我們雜案飆版的數字 |
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62.989 |
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12月1號2億4500萬所以其實詐騙金額雖然有略幅的下降但是它會變成是有一個門檻平均一年都一天2億多一個月有60億的被詐騙金額這個是到目前為止這是客觀數據我們即便是已經講了那麼多過去還有講是說這都是有報案記錄的那有沒有未報案的黑數 |
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92.906 |
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也許有但是這個數據是絕對是是真實的這個報案完之後用電腦間接很好嘛本席現在都是在本席現在都是以一個科學的方向因為我們要共同努力就是要打擊詐騙嘛但現在的詐騙金額被詐騙金額不是一天一千萬兩千萬是一天一億兩億 |
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而且一個月60億那即便是這個案件數字我們常講對於被害者來講他不是0跟100啊他不是那個金額的高低啊他是被騙了就是那麼多錢啊他的付出他的損傷他一生的秩序就那麼多啊所以我們猜想是說以現在我們通過那麼多的法令不管是過去打詐是法打詐無法或是我們現在又在討論要更精進要加重刑責處分 |
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148.789 |
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170.267 |
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署長你認為除了現在我們有做以外還有沒有可以更積極有效的方式所以我們這個炸防條例在去年7月通過之後經過這一年來的這樣的施行我們認為還有要更經濟的地方所以我們今天要把炸防條例的這個刑者刑罰的部分修得更嚴格一點沒錯 這樣子你覺得還夠嗎 |
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175.236 |
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194.247 |
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這個當然還不夠厚或者是當然還不夠嘛所以說我們才想的是說怎麼樣各部會各司其實有更積極有效的作為嘛另外就是說剛剛有些委員有提的就是說除了這個更重以外對就是對於被害人最重要就是他的那個被害人能夠做返還嘛是這是 |
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195.208 |
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他是最重要的就是他的本席也有參與連署就是說針對譬如說自首的部分如果說他不是非自願自首或是說他一定要達成一定金額這都是我們之後會逐條審查討論但是我昨天有注意到我們刑事警察局的這個科長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.8 |
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230.464 |
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跟我們的網紅也有上個節目他講到一句話我覺得真的是要我們所有行政部門大家引以為戒因為這句話也許它就是一個事實可是這個事實絕對不應該掛在我們中華民國掛在我們台灣的頭上他講什麼 他講說現在台灣已經變成是詐騙訓練兵訓練場 詐騙練兵場只要在台灣能夠詐騙成功的話世界各國都走得通 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.39 |
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261.202 |
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那代表什麼代表台灣變成是詐騙培養基地詐騙練兵場我們可以接受這樣的一個形容嗎我覺得這個是這個講得太嚴重了太嚴重了但這句話是本席剛剛查的新聞資料是昨天一個網紅跟我們刑事警察局共同直播節目講出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.774 |
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278.761 |
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署長我不是要苛責這一個科長我現在講的是說如果說真的有講到這句話外界有形容或是外界認為說台灣嚴重詐騙嚴重這種程度變成是詐騙集團想要用新的方法新的手段新的科技來台灣嘗試 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
280.882 |
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301.467 |
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台灣嘗試通了然後他在其他世界各國詐騙那我們情何以堪我們警政署我們內政部我們法務部所有同仁大家可以接受嗎這口氣吞得下嗎所以我們才有更積極的防弊我們要用我們態度來告訴詐騙集團你不要想在台灣詐騙你敢來我們敢罰我們敢辦是吧是好來那法務部市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.905 |
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339.553 |
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市長本席之前總質詢的時候就有講過9月的時候就有說現在新加坡因為他們要打詐所以他們把邊行納入了詐騙打詐的一個刑責除了原有刑責不變罰金關幾年刑責不變還有加入邊行那現在也新加坡三讀通過也一個多月了我們法務部有沒有了解說他們的成效我們會去了解會去了解是所以還沒有了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
342.677 |
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360.392 |
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我來借用一下王世堅委員 我們執政黨委員他昨天上一個直播 他被主持人問到台灣民眾被詐騙一年超過1200億加黑數王世堅主張嚴刑峻法 邊刑能逼出上線能否對詐騙用邊刑 王世堅表態了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
368.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
382.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這是單一委員的說法但重點就是有媒體有報導超過七成的民眾認為如果邊形是有效能夠嚇阻詐騙的話我國應該採取用邊形更有九成二的民眾認為現在詐騙在台灣是嚴峻的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
385.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
408.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那你不能發過態度立場是到現在人家都已經在施行了我常講說新加坡現在用邊形納入打造這是一個很好的實驗組我們不需要浪費社會成本我們就可以有一個實驗組來去看參考說他們有沒有效如果有效的話我們能不能做未來推動修法的參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
410.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
432.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
市長上個禮拜本時沒有記錯的話司法法治委員會才開一個專案報告也是針對這個議題討論那你們不是照理講應該人家已經是實驗組了我們跟新加坡建立管道了解一下說他們現在的一個制度跟一個數據有下降我們也可以提出來幫忙我們的警察同仁嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
433.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
461.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
給警察同仁武器工具讓他們去對付詐騙犯的時候講嘛你們敢詐騙台灣有邊形如果未來我們可以推動的話讓他們嚇阻他們啊法務部你們的態度能不能再更積極一點我想新加坡這個部分三讀是通過啦但是他們還沒公佈啦這個還沒所以相關的數據啦還有個案呢我們還沒收集到那我們有沒有建立管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
462.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
485.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們建立跟新加坡的管道我們這邊都有法務秘書跟警務秘書我們當然會有聯繫啦至於說我們的往來那個就方便來 次長其實你要講說新加坡他們沒有公告等等但是媒體報導都已經有其實這是一個政府態度的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
487.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
501.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
讓詐騙犯知道新加坡當已經納入邊形之後他有恐嚇嚇阻的效果就可以防範犯罪我提高犯罪之後的成本犯罪人他就會評估說那我就不要來這邊犯罪他可能就會離開嘛不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
506.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
534.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這就是法治國家社會的ABC就是說如果說我們針對這樣不然我們今天討論為什麼我們今天討論是說連這些相關法則要提高也是一樣我們希望達到這個效果啊我們沒有說我們我們要傷害無辜的民眾無辜民眾你不犯罪提高再關一百年你也不會關到你但重點是你敢犯罪的話有權責有層級你騙多少錢我要關多少騙多少錢要關多少不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
535.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
550.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
行政院版本不是也是這樣子嗎是啊所以我們現在才講的是說除了這個以外那人家已經有一個實驗組了你不能到目前為止還是被一問三不知啊你能夠接受你能夠接受我剛剛講的台灣是個詐騙練兵場 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
553.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
577.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
台灣詐騙成功 世界就可以成功能夠接受嗎所以本期才講是說人家已經有個實驗組了那我們能不能了解對方的立法過程原由以及是不是真的有效果有效果我們可以來做後續的研究跟討論我們會研議所以建立管道 了解相關資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
579.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
606.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
公部門與公部門的管道讓我們立法委員後續也可以做參考本席再次強調當初跟總執行的時候我給行政院院長跟法務部部長半年的時間讓他們來收集相關資料以及掌握國內的民情也有媒體已經有報導有七成的民眾做過民調之後是支持死刑來打擊邊刑來打擊詐騙的這些都請法務部收集相關資料來做一個研議可以嗎是謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
609.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
609.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
謝謝我們感謝紅夢台灣 |