| IVOD_ID |
16616 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16616 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2025042120 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-23T13:30:04+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-23T14:57:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:26:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d062e4d1cae62d4aed89c836a49862795bd9360bdedb08522a018aa7d755313315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-23T14:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：委員許宇甄等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:30:04 - 14:57:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1842.15 |
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1842.971 |
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OK,好可以嗎?好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1883.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1892.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
現在開始協商會議進行協商之前先介紹到場的委員第一個是沈博洋召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1896.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1913.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
第二個是陳永康委員第三是張祺凱委員第四是陳一貞委員第五是蘇金淺委員陳昭之委員王玉民委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1926.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1944.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
羅志強委員 郭怡情委員還有陳佩儀委員 曾振淺委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1954.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1972.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
報告黨團協商會議我們就現在協商那委員徐一貞等52人凝聚公投提案主文為賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1974.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1986.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那你是否同意政府應避免戰爭不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴清廉善命且加嚴這個被毀的烏克蘭請公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1997.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2026.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本案今114年的3月25日立法院第11屆第3會期第6次的宴會決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商協商會議請各黨團指派代表參加在案所以今天由本席代表國民黨黨團來主持這一次的協商會議那現在開始進行協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2035.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2050.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
現在請主席 出席的黨團代表表示意見好 請羅志強委員上台那在座的好了 在座的那麥克風OK 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2058.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2075.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
今天會舉行這一場協商是因為來自台灣多數民眾現在都非常的擔心我最近也在街頭幾乎是愛家愛戶的拜訪選民真的遇到很多民眾對於台灣當情的處境非常憂心 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2077.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2102.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那前幾天我在街頭拜訪的時候就一位外送的大哥他看到我當場就落淚他激動的跟我講說現在我們的執政者沉迷於政治鬥爭現在我們的台灣有可能被推向戰爭那他非常的焦慮所以在這邊其實今天的公投也是要提出一個嚴肅的警訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2104.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2127.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們的民主正面臨考驗我們的自由被慢慢蠶食我們好不容易真實的台灣的制度走向一個危險的逆行道路回到戒嚴時期司法抓捕在野黨的年代在亞洲中華民國跟南韓的政治跟經濟發展常常被作為一個相似的對照 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2128.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2152.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那麼還記得南韓總統尹錫悅在面對這個國人對他的不信任跟不滿意的時候他以所謂的國安為由宣布戒嚴封鎖國會最後呢被國會以204票對85票憲法法院然後通過彈劾罷免下台 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2153.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2182.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那這個不是電影情節就是才剛發生在距離我們不遠處的民主國家亞洲的民主國家那韓國人民是用制度跟勇氣捍衛他們的民主但是各位真的覺得它只發生在南韓嗎我們看看今天的台灣我們是不是也正在走向那一條這個尹錫悅想走的這一條道路上 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2183.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2206.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
賴清德總統提出了國安十七條將對岸定位為境外敵對勢力那兩岸的烽火加劇那甚至開始以正戰爭的狀態來治理國家這樣的一個所謂的目前當情的情況我們有必要來探求民意怎麼去看待今天這個局面 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2207.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2233.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那麼更重要的是在這個所謂的準戰爭的背後實際上你可以看到各項各種所謂的限制人民權利自由的各種所謂的管制措施也正逐步的開始沒有宣布戒嚴的戒嚴其實早就在台灣這塊土地之上一一的上演更何況最近台灣也很遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2234.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2259.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
發生在野黨遭到司法機關接連針對然後被搜索在野黨的黨的重要幹部然後呢被收押方方面面其實民進黨正在全面殲滅在野黨這個計畫而且最嚴重的是用司法為手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2260.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2283.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
它其實某種程度它是比戒嚴還要恐怖的戒嚴因為它是以司法為所謂的清算的一個基底但是另外一方面你看到當整個國家用這麼大的一個力量來去做其他民主國家幾乎不敢做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2284.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2310.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
就像我今天質詢法務部長跟調查局長我就直接問他們一個問題他頓了10秒20秒30秒不管我問幾次他都答不出來我說有哪一個民主國家大規模搜索在野黨黨部他完全答不出來所以我們要看到就是說基本上這樣的狀況其實已經比戒嚴更嚴重了 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2311.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2339.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那這是為什麼今天我們要提出這一個公投這公投其實就是把人民的心聲反映在公民投票之上來去請執政者也有機會好好想一想我們真的要走烏克蘭的這條路嗎我們真的要走軍事戒嚴的這條路嗎我們真的要走這一個可能往戰爭方向移動的路嗎這是台灣當前唯一的選擇嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2342.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2368.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
就像賴慶德總統或民進黨你會發現過去很多主張跟現在主張都不太一樣了我講一個歷史故事給大家聽就像賴慶德總統講軍事審判過去賴總統也好民進黨也好說軍事審判違反人權但現在沒有軍事審判國家安全無法維護就像說以前民進黨曾經努力廢除刑法100條 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2370.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2391.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他認為民進黨的主張很簡單在台灣宣揚共產主義宣揚共產主義乃至於宣揚武力顛覆政府都是言論自由除非你著手施行否則你不應該將之入罪但現在民進黨採取了另外完全不同的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2392.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2419.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我先用客觀中立的角度來看我先不評價到底是以前的民進黨主張可以宣揚共產主義主張可以宣揚武力顛覆政府是賣台還是說其實是今天的民進黨他正準備往戒嚴的方向走準備往戰爭的方向走是毀民主這兩個民進黨當中必然有一個民進黨他是應該要受到責難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2422.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2446.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以我不幫台灣人民來責難前面的民進黨30年前的民進黨還是今天的民進黨我們就要公投讓人民來決定到底是以前民進黨當時在奮鬥解嚴在奮鬥所謂的連共產主義宣揚都可以視為言論自由這樣的主張的民進黨是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2447.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2476.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
還是今天司法清算動輒來去壓迫在野黨想要達到全面封殺監督聲音的民進黨是對的一個國安的理由就讓民進黨成為正確最後我要想講日本村上春樹的作家村上春樹說過一句我很喜歡的話其實這也是民進黨過去在野時候最常引用的一句話他說當雞蛋與高牆對撞時 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2477.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2507.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
不管雞蛋有多麼的脆弱我永遠站在雞蛋的這一邊今天民進黨作為一個執政的高牆你會發現真正的各種弊案各種的一些問題其實都源於民進黨今天的執政高端 超私 達德 光電幾億 幾十億 上百億的弊案請問我們現在民進黨執政的政府查了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2508.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2530.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
辦了嗎我們來看看今天橫行的詐騙暴征的所謂的毒品各項的犯罪的狀況請問民進黨花了多少時間 多少力氣在整辦但民進黨把寶貴的司法資源用在哪裡用在追殺 清算 在野黨他在用高強的力量 正在鎮壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2537.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2563.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
脆弱的鸡蛋所以亲爱的台湾人民我们要看破今天作为一个权力的高强他的傲慢他是怎么样来去想要来去欺压所谓的在野的力量所谓的民主最核心的东西民主最核心就是制衡没有制衡就不可能有民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2564.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2589.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以今天一旦在野黨真的是在目前的狀況之下被民進黨封殺、割喉、清算了那我也告訴各位下一把刀斧不就是用戒嚴、準戒嚴、司法戒嚴來自於各項的所謂的執政者所編織出來的一個理由然後一一的來鎮壓跟清算 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2590.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2611.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以今天這個公投其實一是反映人民的心聲另外當然也是給執政者我們一個提醒希望賴清德總統 希望民進黨政府好好想想人民真正擔心的是什麼以上 謝謝謝謝羅志強委員的發言那補充介紹我們習以生委員王宏威委員葛如今委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2619.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2644.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
羅明財委員陳清威委員那現在就是先請那個提案委員的看就是徐以貞委員葛如今委員要不要做一個說明還有羅志強委員提案委員好在現場做就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2647.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2666.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝主席我想本席這次提案的是一個 覆決重大政策的公民投票因為這不只是一場公投的投票更重要的是攸關國家命運的生死的分水嶺這也不是單純的只是政策的討論而是攸關2340萬人未來的選擇國家的未來由人民公投來決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2672.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2694.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以國民黨團提出公投你是否同意政府應避免戰爭不讓台灣變成實施軍事建業青年喪命家園被毀的烏克蘭這個公投絕不是危言聳聽而是台灣正面臨的迫切危機今日烏克蘭明日台灣這句話正迅速從警語變為事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2696.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2708.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
如今的台灣早已不再是過去自由民主的典範我們幾乎已經陷入食指戒嚴的狀態過去一個月全台人民都目睹了前所未見的政治打壓檢調單位大規模搜索、約談、生壓那些推動罷免立委的公民團體與國民黨的地方幹部甚至連台北市黨部的主委都因推論、想像而被生壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2721.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2750.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
请问在这样的一个国家里一张传单一句口号一个赖群组就能构成犯罪人民依法罢免立委就要准备迎接警察临检家园被搜索检调讯问生压警检这不是民主的做法这就是戒严我们看到的是一个执政党意志凌驾法律的体制是一个以国安为名对一级展开政治整肃的政权今日的台湾 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2751.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2768.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
還沒宣布戒嚴卻已早已實質進入戒嚴的狀態當在野黨的黨部都可以任意被搜索黨部的主委都可以根據毫無根據的一個狀況生壓言論輕易被貼上叛國的標籤民主早已名存實亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2770.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2790.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這一次賴清德總統未經立法院討論片面發布所謂的賴17條將中國大陸定義為境外敵對勢力進一步將台灣社會推入對立分裂恐懼的深淵這不是外交與兩岸定位的重大變更更是繞過憲政體制踐踏民主程序的行政獨裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2791.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2807.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
的行為民進黨不僅打造思想審查言論紅線敵我劃分如今更結合檢警司法全面動員國家機器對付一級者我們正在眼尖間看著台灣失去民主國家的一個樣貌 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2808.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2831.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以我們今天提出的反戒嚴公投不是為了藍綠之爭而是為了保住台灣這個地方保住民主制度保住下一代的生存空間賴清德總統自上任以來從提出了新兩國論到拋出賴17條再宣布將對岸定位為境外敵對勢力一步步升高兩岸的敵對 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2832.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2851.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
擺明了就是要替戰爭鋪路這不是在維持和平請問這樣的總統還能帶領台灣必戰保台嗎而我們這次所提出的四項理由呢首先第一項是賴清德總統將大陸地區定義為境外敵對勢力以改變兩岸現狀第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2854.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2883.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
賴總統近日宣布重大政策不符合民主的程序因為賴政府事前並未徵詢立法院的意見恐以違反民主政治的精神第三項言論自由恐遭限縮這是掌權者以維護國安之名行限制人民言論之時的惡例第四項是宣告對岸為境外獨特勢力導致台海瀕臨戰爭的一個邊緣所以在這邊我們提出這樣的公投希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2884.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2898.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
大家草野的立委大家能夠放下政黨的顏色讓這項提案正式進入正式成立把民主還給台灣謝謝謝謝徐益臻委員的發言接下來有葛如君委員發言好謝謝主席謝謝出席的各位委員高牆必倒暴政必亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2908.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2933.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
覆巢之下也無完卵但我們必然還是會選擇站在雞蛋的這一邊維持現狀也是一種可能性拼經濟顧民生也是一種選項我們認為這樣的選項應該交由全民來公決這是我們這一次這個提案最核心的思維謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2935.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2943.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那現在我們請出席的黨團代表表示意見那王一鳴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2947.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2966.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
謝謝主席各位委員同仁大家好我想中華民國我們的民主自由繁榮和平這個是所有生活在台灣這片土地所有的人民最珍視的一個價值但是我們看到賴清德總統他提出來的賴17條然後把對岸視為境外敵對勢力之後等於是升高了兩岸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2976.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2995.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
對立跟衝突而大家看到這個對岸的這些戰機戰艦更頻繁的在圍繞台灣我們反對對岸這樣的一個武力的行為但是我們要問當政府一面的去升高兩岸的情勢的時候是不是把全台灣2300萬人民帶向了戰爭的邊緣這樣的一個準戰爭的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3002.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3011.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
是讓老百姓在這片土地會過得非常的不安包括像我們的宮廟都要變成是儲存我們這些彈藥的據點你知道人民有多麼的恐懼嗎在這樣的情況底下台灣人民都擔心一件事情我們會不會成為烏克蘭台灣人民不希望步入烏克蘭的後塵 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3026.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3037.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
因為所有的戰爭其實給人民帶來的是生命跟財產的一個損失所以台灣要避免戰爭我們也反對賴清德總統他把台灣帶入戰爭的邊緣我們更反對賴清德總統以國安之名行戒嚴之實 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3048.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3051.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
民主進步黨過去一直在倡議一直在倡議的自由跟民主我們要問的是賴清德總統你口中的自由民主還在嗎那在這樣一個情況底下國民黨我們提出了這樣一個公投案 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3066.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3073.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我想公投就是讓人民自己做主在這樣的一個議題我們應該交由全台灣2300萬的人民大家透過公投的方式來決定台灣的人民最終會透過公投來告訴賴清德總統台灣不要戰爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3086.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3102.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
台灣要和平我想這樣一個心聲應該就是透過我們現在這樣一個民主的機制讓人民可以透過公投表達意見而這一次由立法院提出的公投案完全是符合公投法 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3102.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3107.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
而且在大法官第645號的解釋也講得非常的清楚這樣的一個規定在立法院行使憲法所賦予的權限範圍內不違反憲法權利分立之基本原則下與憲法沒有抵觸那我們在這邊也要提出來李敬勇中選會的主委在這一個反戒嚴的公投案裡面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3128.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3148.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
他自己擅自去表達他的意見他甚至說邏輯矛盾即使通過也無效我們要譴責一個中選會的主委對於立法院依據公投法而且憲法也已經解釋合法的一個公投案竟然可以自行去說出即使通過也無效這樣的話我們要予以譴責基本上中選會必須是一個中立的機關他是來承辦這個公投案的一個機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3158.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3172.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
而不是可以去直接去批判或者是直接去講述說這個公投案有效或無效如果他這樣子的一個政治表態就代表他不是一個中立的中選會的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3173.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3189.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
所以我想今天國民黨提出這樣的一個反對兩岸進入準戰爭的一個狀態避免戰爭的這樣一個公投案我們就希望透過全台灣人民的力量公民的力量來告訴現在的賴清德總統台灣不要戰爭台灣要和平謝謝謝謝王一鳴委員的發言那補充介紹我們吳宗憲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3201.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3224.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那接下來由民眾黨團張其凱委員發言今天我們討論的是反戰爭反戒嚴的公投兩岸的關係確實面臨越來越緊張兩岸的惡意流行一直在往上走全世界比較專業的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3227.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3247.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
軍事或者是兩岸的專家都說全世界戰爭熱區裡面兩岸是其中排在前面的我們有責任讓我們的台灣人民可以安居樂業遠離戰爭可是呢從賴清德上任到現在大家看到最近的新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3249.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3275.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
連我們全台灣一萬三千多家的超商可能都要變成兩岸戰爭時候的民生物資的供應跟樞紐連宮廟都要放炮彈連我們EUE的兵役可能要從一年要延長到兩年甚至要研究女性要不要上戰場要不要服兵役 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3277.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3288.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
今天沈博洋、沈委員在現場黑熊學院黑熊學院發了很多的心思在強化民防甚至參加一些標案甚至說如果兩岸發生戰爭他們已經開了課程了要教大家怎麼種菜 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3295.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3315.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
渡過戰爭的這個難關戰爭在民進黨執政之下離我們人民越來越近所以今天是一個迫切的危機台灣民眾黨強力的支持今天的反戰爭的公投另外今天這個公投也是反戒嚴的公投南韓前總統尹錫悅宣布戒嚴應見不嚴我特別要提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3326.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3343.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
尹錫岳宣布戒嚴的時候全世界只有一個立院黨團就是民進黨的立法院黨團支持、肯定尹錫岳頒布戒嚴令引起全世界主要媒體的嘲笑跟抗議甚至南韓的媒體笑說民進黨立院黨團是噁心的殘處這段時間民進黨一黨獨裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3352.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3358.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
看看最近光是去年的年底柯文哲家裡被搜索民眾黨的中央黨部被搜索這把火一路燒居然的英靈燒到了國民黨一個多月前國民黨的台南四黨部不只被搜索副組委跟組長已經被羈押了一個多月了上個禮拜火燒到了國民黨台北四黨部 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3380.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3407.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
不只被收手 連他的主委都被生壓現在提起抗告 還要繼續壓全世界哪一個民主國家有像民進黨這樣對待在野的第一大黨跟第二大黨民進黨的獨裁正一步一步的往戒嚴的方向走所以台灣民眾黨強力支持這個反戰爭也反戒嚴的公投我要特別提醒民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3409.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3425.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們公投法從2004年正式實施以後已經歷經了十幾次的公投案了民進黨之前,我是嘉義人民進黨以前還有個蔡公投每次都提說所有重大的案件都應該交給人民來公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3426.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3447.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我今天深深的期待民進黨共同來面對我們台灣面臨的戰爭的危機面臨戒嚴跟民進黨獨裁這個危機還給人民一個最好的環境不要擋今天的公投案我們讓全民透過公投清清楚楚跟民進黨講我們不要戰爭我們不要戒嚴謝謝謝謝民進黨團張祺凱委員發言那補充介紹我們林倩琦委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3456.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3464.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那接下來由民進黨團陳培宇委員發言好 那就沈博洋 趙薇先發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3466.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3488.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
好 謝謝主席 沈博洋第一次發言這個 我說真的就是說我們今天這個公投案其實當然它是一個非常複雜的一個案子那我向來我在協商的時候都不會講什麼攻擊性的話但是剛剛聽了前面這些講法其實說真的讓人非常不舒服第一個大家可以看到在黨今天來了多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3489.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3513.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我們這邊三位這邊來非常多人那麼多人的狀況之下現在國會多數是誰是國民黨跟民眾黨不要講說就是通過法律要去侵害人民權利的時候就用暴力現在有些面臨罷免有些面臨人民的譴責的時候現在就說自己是雞蛋我在場看起來哪一個像雞蛋這邊哪裡看起來像是雞蛋的一方我會覺得說沒有必要用這種政治性的語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3513.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3536.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那我再講一次 我先從程序開始講這一個公投的部分最大的問題就是當時程序不合法程序不合法其實照理說今天這個協商不應該存在那這個我們也爭執很久了 所以這個我就不多說但第二個呢 我先講一下今天如果說今天要聚焦在戒嚴兩個字的話今天戒嚴這兩個字 今天需要立法院的追認這立法院的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3537.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3557.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
也就是說立法院怎麼會把自己的工作交付公投呢那這樣不是很奇怪嗎那乾脆在座的立法委員可以都回家啦因為這立法委員的工作耶你要戒嚴不要戒嚴是立法院可以追認的耶就你自己說我不想知道我要不要追認我全部交給人民決定然後人民決定完之後到最後就說OK所以我不追認或者我追認怎麼可能會有這種人 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3558.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3582.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以你不能夠把自己的工作拿去交付公投嘛這其實是一個很簡單的道理那更不要講說立法院今天提出的算是一個重大政策重大政策要麼就是從無到有那麼就從有到無那請問這一個案子到底是從無到有還是從有到無不清楚嘛然後再來就是如果說因為這個在野黨已經定義了這個竟然叫反戒嚴公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3582.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3606.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以我認為關鍵字應該是那兩個字叫戒嚴戒嚴在法律上是有精準定義的所以我剛剛看到前面發言一直在講說在野黨什麼被搜索什麼等等之類的請問被搜索跟戒嚴的關係到底是什麼什麼叫準戒嚴什麼叫做類戒嚴沒有這種東西啊戒嚴在法律上是有精準定義的在台灣的戒嚴是有軍事接管的意味在裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3607.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3634.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
你說這個什麼在野黨的黨部被搜索請問在法律上不能被搜索的區域有包含國民黨黨部嗎在法律上不能搜索的區域是什麼在法律上有privilege的地方在哪裡有可能是什麼律師事務所啊什麼等等之類的所以現在還有一個憲法訴訟在進行當中就是說如果有這種privilege的狀況之下有哪些特定的處所是不能夠被搜索的這個在學理上在法律上都是有精確定義的黨部沒有在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3635.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3649.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
党部完全没有在不能搜索的范围但如果是这样的话以后只要犯完罪把所有的证据留在党部的话那党部都不能搜索那请问这个国家要怎么去实施公平正义由今天伪造文书的案件除了都已经讲得非常的清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3650.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3677.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
當你今天在偽造文書的這個比例你的錯誤的比例能夠到三成四成的時候你一張口袋你本來有一百張貨幣你有一張偽造的貨幣這可能是搞錯了可能是你買東西不小心收到的你有一百張偽造貨幣的時候裡面有三十你有一百張貨幣的時候裡面有三十張偽造貨幣的時候怎麼可能檢查官會不查呢那更不要講說這個可能跟名單有關係嘛所以才會需要搜索名單不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3678.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3693.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所以針對這件事情就是把這個單純的司法上面對於有犯罪嫌疑的處所去做搜索把它無限上綱成戒嚴這也太誇張了吧戒嚴有精準定義的我們還有戒嚴法 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3694.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3721.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以拜託還有剛剛提到說什麼主張什麼共產黨是否OK但法官都已經解釋過了啊今天這些中配的案子不是因為主張共產主義跟那個一點關係都沒有耶那個是因為煽動戰爭耶煽動戰爭 傷禍戰爭主張敵國可以武力統一我們他的問題出在這裡所以不要用那麼多混淆視聽的方式重點是剛講了那麼多還跟這個公投主文一點關係都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3723.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3750.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以我覺得這是很離譜的事情就是我們今天那麼多人來協商好歹要聚焦我們協商的重點在哪裡吧講了那麼多 用政治操作結果講的又跟這一個案子一點關係都沒有這到底意義在哪裡那我回到這一個主文這個主文問題太多太多了我根本 這叫我講三個小時都沒有問題我把下午的約都取消好了第一個就是 他說賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力好 這第一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3751.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3756.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
剛剛就有人提到說怎麼沒有昨天這個劉書兵在質詢的時候就說這個法律怎麼會有延續啊什麼等等之類的然後今天我剛好有聽到我忘了是誰講的說怎麼沒有徵詢說這個中國到底是不是境外敵對勢力 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3767.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3787.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
境外敵對勢力是反滲透法有直接定義的那請問法律直接定義行政機關要不要釋法用法當然要啊如果今天法律定義什麼叫做闖紅燈結果警察現在定義這個人闖紅燈了就說不行不行要趕快來徵得各位偉大的立法委員的同意什麼叫闖紅燈怎麼可能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3788.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3810.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
其實反滲透法就已經定義什麼叫境外敵對勢力了境外敵對勢力裡面就有包含對方的法律把我們當作是他的一部分而且還說可以武力攻打這不就已經符合境外敵對勢力的定義如果對於行政機關要釋法用法他難道還要再過來再問大家確認一次嗎不用吧如果適用法律真的有疑義的也不是要找立法院啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3810.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3833.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
到最後是要進入憲法法庭才對啊我忘記憲法法庭已經被你們廢掉了但是至少這是一個正當法律的程序嘛所以賴清德總統定位對岸違禁對敵對勢力光是這一件事情剛剛前面的命題就有很大的錯誤了第二句人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態好 我就問了我先不要再講這個明確性的問題公投要有明確性什麼叫做準戰爭狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3836.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3859.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
戰爭狀態準戰爭狀態灰色地帶還有一個比較明確的定義你在這邊的準戰爭是什麼意思第一個第二個因果關係在哪裡為什麼是賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力鬥點所以因為你放在後面嘛你的文藝就是所以人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態問題是這兩件事情沒有因果關係啊那你為什麼不改成中國定定反分裂法 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3860.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3871.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
台灣人民擔心進入準戰爭狀態這還比較合理吧進攻方是中國耶雖然台灣有少部分的人主張要三民主義統一中國還要反攻大陸這少部分的人耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3871.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3890.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
今天會進入戰爭狀態的重點是因為中國要攻打我們不是嗎怎麼會是因為定位為境外敵對勢力那如果我們今天在反滲透法還沒有進入之前人民都完全不擔心兩岸的危機嗎那請問之前96年發生的危機之前的飛彈的危機那個大量的移民潮到底是怎麼出現的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3890.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3905.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以你光是這個句子的這已經跟法律無關了這已經是單純因果關係的問題我到時候還想說會不會是因為這個主文可能是請助理寫的所以發生了這樣的情況剛剛聽了各位的發言我發現不是耶是各位的邏輯完全不通耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3907.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3922.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
所以再來還要再往下你是否同意政府應避免戰爭大概只有這句話是正常的政府應避免戰爭這一句你前面說人民因為擔心戰爭狀態你說政府應該避免戰爭但往下又出現問題了不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴這邊問題就來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3927.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3948.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
如果你今天說要避免戰爭避免戰爭的手段有非常多那你什麼時候你要挑選到進入主文的時候那人民有沒有辦法理解避免戰爭的手段有哪些譬如說避免戰爭的手段有五個那我們希望不要這一個我們希望是另外四個這樣就是一個合理的一個說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3948.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3973.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
但不是這樣寫啊你說應該避免戰爭然後就直接不讓台灣變成戒嚴那這句話的危機就在這裡了那難道你的意思是說如果今天發生了戰爭台灣不准戒嚴如果是這個樣子的話這是一個很大的危機第一個我剛剛講這是各位的工作各位的工作幹嘛拿去交付公投第二個就是如果今天發生戰爭了然後你說不准戒嚴那難道台灣是束手待斃嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3974.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3994.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
公投法的效率是兩年喔所以你的意思說剛好現在2025嘛到2027年的可能如果公投是8月那到2027年的8月只要中國要來攻打我們就不能夠實施軍事戒嚴那如果是這個意思的話你們不就是想要通過這個公投案讓接下來的兩年變成台灣的空窗期嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3995.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4012.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
你不就是等於在邀請中國嗎所以我告訴你喔你這兩年打過來沒有什麼問題為什麼因為我們政府本來有一個方式就是可以讓當時的一些物資啊什麼等等之類的可以做一個比較好的調配結果現在都不能做了為什麼因為我們已經公投已經做下去了不准政府做任何的戒嚴動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4013.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4036.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這是一件非常危險的事情對我來講光是這兩句話來提出公投跟叛國已經沒有什麼兩樣了這是一件非常非常危險的事情接下來更奇怪的事情來了你今天不讓台灣變成軍事戒嚴往下青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭第一個烏克蘭看到這一個這個完全是國際危機這是外交危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4037.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4060.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
你直接把说把乌克兰的建矿把它直接定义到公投主文,你把别人拿来做成嘲笑的对象,这是第一个。第二个就是,为什么今天实施军事戒严之后就变成七年丧命前家园被毁的乌克兰?今天为什么会七年丧命,为什么可能家园被毁?其实那个理由,那个结果,第一个它的结果的可能性是什么?第二个它造成的原因是什么?原因不就是因为中国要入侵台湾吗? |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4061.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4089.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所以如果說今天整件事情是中國要入侵台灣所造成的結果你的公投的主文應該去譴責中國才對啊但你們有譴責中國嗎光是我寫了一個2758號的東西在院會完全沒有辦法通過啊現在美國說要制裁中國還有破壞破壞學生我們這邊陳委員有投書啊還幫中國講話啊現在因為關稅的問題145%甚至有時候到200%現在就是來來去去一直這樣結果台灣現在可能會變成洗產地的地方那我們跟中國站在一起怎麼辦這是離島建設條例啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4091.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4113.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
所以,這一些事情呢,從頭到尾,第一,它的主文就已經非常的不明確,它的因果關係也有問題,再來就是它的問題也太多,一個公投只能一個案子,也就是一個公投只能問一個問題,結果這個公投至少看起來有五個問題在裡面,那你要人民這五個問題,我有五個問題裡面,我有兩個同意,我有三個不同意,那請問我該怎麼做?我到底要投同意還是不同意? |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4114.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4142.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以這就是為什麼說中選會那時候有提到說這個已經不是這跟立場一點關係都沒有這根本就是一個邏輯錯亂的公投而且是做完了之後會造成台灣危機的公投所以這個它應該要聚焦的點實在太多太多了但是我之後再講一次剛剛還有這個我記得是齊考遠還是誰提到的就是有講到說這個戒嚴裡面呢有可能是因為我們台灣現在在準備戰爭可能以後怕超商啦可能怕宮廟啦什麼等等之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4143.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4165.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
第一个,这跟这个案子一点关系都没有。第二个,关键是什么?如果今天台湾是受到中国的威胁,请问台湾要不要做好准备?当然要啊,怎么可能台湾不用做好准备?那台湾要做好准备,请问台湾在每一个社区里面,比如办公室、区公所、超商、庙宇,这都是台湾人民聚集重要的场所。 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4166.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4184.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以我們對於台灣人民聚集重要的場所要去堅實它的防備然後應該讓那個如果說資訊不流通比如說沒有網路的時候又或者說需要物資的時候這些東西這些地方本來就很重要啊這怎麼會是一個不能討論的事情而且重點是這件事情到底跟戒嚴的關係在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4185.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4204.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
然後更不要講說剛剛還提到一些更無關的話要不是你點名我根本就不要講所以又說什麼拿標案啊什麼等等之類的這種謠言就不要再說了我已經在Facebook上面跟你更正很多次了我真的沒有必要做這樣的一個政治攻擊但是再來我要講種菜Victory Gardening這是英國在二戰的時候在做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4205.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4221.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這個Victory Gardening本來就是一個課程只是中文如果翻譯過來叫勝利種菜聽起來好像中文聽起來有點奇怪但它的意思不是只有種菜那麼簡單而已但我覺得這個跟案子無關我們就不要在這邊講所以我拜託就是第一個作為國會的多數黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4224.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4252.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
你們現在在做制衡制衡沒有什麼問題就像你們要煽動預算這個也都沒有什麼問題但是我們需要的是一個正常的制衡正常的制衡好不好就是作為一個多數黨你們不能夠去就剛剛你看剛剛我們網友還在笑當時你提出這個消防的這個提案這個消防的提案怎樣這消防的提案說真的雖然到最後沒有過對不對你看喔沒有過啊我都幫你澄清啦但問題是你的理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4254.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4270.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
你的理由是什麼你們剛剛講那麼多廢話你的理由是什麼你的理由是說是不是我們的消防機關要準備戰爭請問消防機關要準備戰爭所以你提案想要刪他的預算這是什麼意思對不對所以我拜託就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4271.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4285.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
這哪是什麼廢話我全部都是按照這個主文在講剛剛羅志祥那個才叫做廢話啦所以我拜託我告訴大家如果一個人要講這麼久沈博洋如果要柯建銘上身我們是不是規定嘛平等平等我們平等不要柯建銘上身例如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4286.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4299.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
主席要不要先辭職 你們每一個都可以講多久一個人最終五分鐘主席你剛剛沒有先說發言時間的限制現在刻意針主席你剛剛沒有宣布發言時間的限制現在刻意針對沈博洋委員主持發言時間就害怕就說沒有關係害怕就說沒有關係要我們講久也可以啊大家只要控制時間你可以講久也沒問題啊我剛剛全部都是針對要嘛就是等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4315.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4337.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
主席 等一下 先給我發言時間 第一個我剛剛講了多少公投主文的事情我剛剛都是在講公投主文喔 這第一個第二個 我剛剛講不是公投主文的事情全部都是在回應張旗桿跟羅志強剛剛的發言如果認為我剛剛的回應是廢話那就表示張旗桿跟羅志強剛剛講的都是廢話就那麼簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4340.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4358.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我剛剛在回應他們兩個講的東西,如果要協商,協商如果是大家各說各話,這不叫協商喔?協商應該是第一個,回應剛剛前面的人講的東西,第二個,提出我們自己的意見,等一下,我還在發言,而且這邊是國防外交委員會,我們是國防外交委員會的協商, |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4359.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4376.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
今天我們國防外交委員會針對這件事情你們剛剛提出了那麼多見解我都還沒有講剛剛在大安區的故事今天前面提了什麼事情後面的人本來就應該做回應都是他們前面先講的如果剛剛覺得我講的是廢話那就表示他們剛剛講的都是廢話 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4377.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4402.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
第二個 我剛剛講了多少公投主文的疏漏公投主文的問題 這怎麼會是廢話這個也是我講完之後 等一下後面的人要去回應我對公投主文所提出來的疑問請問這跟時間沒有關係 協商本來就是這個樣子我今天並沒有直接限時間如果需要限時的話 那不然等一下大家一起來限時間也沒有關係我們就把它拆成第一次發言 第二次發言 第三次發言 第四次發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4403.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4416.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
但是我們今天都是針對這個公投主文來提出我們的疑問如果大家願意奉陪的話我們可以一直講到晚上都不是問題因為這個公投主文問題實在是太多了好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4418.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4441.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
好 謝謝沈培洋委員的發言那我們就按照我們第一輪的剛剛的發言裡面就是因為我們沒有限定時間那第二輪的話是不是我們就限定五分鐘來做一個發言 好不好那這樣的話我們大家發言都真是公正的那接下來由陳培宇委員發言沈主席現在是第一輪發言沒有限制時間 對嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4443.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4457.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
沒有我還沒有第一輪發言我還沒有第一輪發言聽不懂啊我剛已經說了我跟主席確認第一輪發言對嗎如果有主席點頭主席啊如果有人情緒有問題的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4463.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4468.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們很擔心喔我再一次確認我的程序有沒有問題主席請問我是主人發言嗎我們先處理程序問題主席我們很擔心主人發言先處理程序問題先處理程序問題把五分鐘定下來把五分鐘定下來我們在這間大舊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4480.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4483.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
而且主席已經你拿著麥克風對著我大叫什麼意思莫名其妙嘛 主席我是第一輪發言對嗎沒有時間限制對嗎你剛剛幹嘛對我好對嗎沒有時間限制來主席點頭囉請問陳佩儀說明一下好不好從陳佩儀為列為第一輪你剛才在大聲什麼第一輪發言請問陳佩儀你剛才在大聲什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4499.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4515.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
陳佩儀請問你剛才在大聲什麼 請你跟徐宇甄道歉大聲跟小聲 請你跟徐宇甄道歉我沒有覺得我很大聲每個人都追蹤發言 陳佩儀我覺得很大聲 我的耳朵都發動了 我覺得很大聲沒有計時的問題 剛剛已經確定了第一輪發言沒有計時 主席剛才是了 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4524.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4550.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
好 謝謝主席主席剛剛已經裁示了每一個委員的第一輪發言是沒有限定時間的謝謝主席那國民黨既然要談戒嚴我們就把記憶翻出來提醒國民黨這麼愛談戒嚴史上第二長的戒嚴人類歷史上第二長的戒嚴發動的就是中國國民黨1967年到2011年這正是中國國民黨對於台灣所做出來的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4551.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4556.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
甚至在1948年12月10號開始國共內戰金馬被列入戒嚴但台灣本島沒有到1949到198738年的戒嚴所以如果國民黨的人不知道什麼叫做戒嚴我先幫大家回復時序記憶那至於戒嚴時期會發生什麼事情國民黨人民眾黨人口口聲聲說現在賴清德總統是獨裁民進黨政府是戒嚴時期我們來看看什麼叫做戒嚴一旦發生戒嚴在國民黨戒嚴時期 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4581.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4602.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
台灣人民的言論出版結社通訊遷徙相關自由都會受到迫害都會受到影響所以當你們的主席兩個在野黨的主席在台上喃喃自語的時候所有在罵賴慶的總統所有在罵執政黨行政機關所有的傷害性的語言完全都沒有受到任何的批評你們可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4604.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4609.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
愛講什麼就講什麼 愛罵什麼就罵什麼你們現在所有做的事情都沒有受到所謂言論出版結社通訊牽使自由的限制請問這跟戒嚴有什麼關係還有真正的戒嚴跟獨裁是當年你們不讓台灣人講話不讓台灣人可以做自己的出版不讓台灣人有自己的結社不讓台灣人辦報所有限制台灣人民的自由是你們當年做過的事情但我相信你們全部都忘記了 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4626.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4640.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
你們可能連自己提出這麼荒謬的公投提案都不記得當然多年以前你們對於台灣人民的傷害你們當然也不會記得如果你們真的要避免戰爭我也想要再次提醒你們最近到中國去拜訪的是你們的民進黨副主席連勝文還有洪秀柱還有周錫瑋所有國民黨人一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4645.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4650.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
陸陸續續到中國去要飯這件事情為什麼要舔共為什麼要一直去跟中國握手你們到底要交換了什麼利益到目前為止沒有任何國民黨委員跟台灣人民報告我們真的不知道當我們把中國定義為敵對國家勢力的時候你們卻還口口聲聲去握手去要飯你們到底是如何出賣台灣人民當你們不願意面對這樣的事情的時候反過來譴責台灣政府所有做的相關準備而你們卻不去譴責 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4672.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4677.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
中國共產黨對於台灣做出來的武力騷擾的行為戰機繞台的行為請問如果現場每一個人去想像一下家裡的小孩被霸凌了你的親朋好友的小孩被霸凌了被欺負了 被威脅了 被恐嚇了 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4687.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4690.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我們第一時間是叫我們自己被恐嚇被霸凌的小孩把頭埋進沙子裡當一隻鴕鳥嗎還是告訴他準備好你自己不管是語言上的準備武器上的準備行為上的準備我們保護好自己等到所有霸凌攻擊威脅武嚇來到我們面前的時候我們才有能力保衛我們自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4706.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4716.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這是一般人一般人會做的事情也是一個國家一個正常國家可以做的事情我真的不知道為什麼面對霸凌我們恐嚇我們威脅我們的國家所有國民黨人不願意正面譴責他們只敢在公開場合譴責賴清德總統譴責台灣行政機關到底你們是跟誰站在一起更可笑的是426站獨裁這是你們國民黨喊出來的口號但我們看見的是你們才是跟獨裁政府站在一起的政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4736.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4764.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
而如今卻在台灣的立法院提出像這樣的公投提案荒謬至極而且沒有辦法自己針對議案好好做說明剛剛沈博洋委員對你們的回應算是非常非常的客氣完全沒有提出任何人身攻擊我想要請問當你們口口聲聲說他是廢話的時候就如同他剛剛說你們自己才說的正是廢話還有相關的法源依據如果你們不想聽法盲理盲我們就不再贅述但我們要再次提醒你們當你們提出像這樣的公投案的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4765.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4790.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我不知道你們是真的怕罷免還是你們真的在對中國共產黨做出利益外合的行為所以我想我要在這一次協商會議上公開譴責你們這個提案不僅不負責任你們對於台灣人民更是不負責任以上 謝謝謝謝陳佩儀委員的發言那第二波的這五分鐘我們請郭益晴委員我第一輪喔沒有沒有 第二輪剛剛我沒有唸到你的蛤 我是第二輪喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4794.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4815.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
所以我是第二輪發言啊不是 主席 我們所謂的一輪是指每一個人第一輪或第二輪吧對 因為你是事後才舉手的那剛剛是陳培宇跟沈博洋是同樣舉手的剛剛他在沈博洋發言的時候他就已經舉手囉沒有沒有 主席主席所以接下來所有發言的人都叫第二波就對了對對對 第二波 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4817.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4825.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
可是這不公平吧 因為我是第一波 主席 我覺得要抗議 主席 我要抗議因為剛剛 剛剛威延宣布了 所以已經屬於第二波 好不好好 沒關係 主席 那我們要不要回看剛剛那個直播好 既然是第二波的發言 對不對好 那我就 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4833.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4854.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
簡短的講我想大家應該都還有印象這3月25號的晚上7點25分我們看到當天應該是院會早就6點應該要結束的時間但7點20分之後我們看到了韓國瑜院長用突襲式的方式來宣布這個會議要延長並且做出的所謂的兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4856.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4876.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
空頭 應該空殼的公投這兩個完全是沒有正當性而且是違法的一個會議所以在這個部分光是程序的部分就已經是非常非常的莫名其妙而且是無效的會議違法的一個程序我不知道為什麼今天我們坐在這裡協商還要再就所謂的提案主文完全混淆民意 操弄恐懼而且是有誤導性的我們來看一下這個提案的主文 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4885.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4888.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
他說賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力我想境外敵對勢力剛剛其實沈博洋委員也講得非常的清楚到底是誰天天文攻武嚇到底是誰天天派他們的共機要來騷擾台灣到底是誰都在國際上打壓台灣我想這個敵對勢力是非常非常清楚也就是現在國民黨的副主席正在對岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4910.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4913.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
正在那個敵對勢力跟他們寒暄跟他們握手跟他們問好的敵對勢力就是中國這無庸置疑但是主文的後半段呢卻把所謂的人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4927.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4930.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
什麼叫做進入準戰爭的狀態他把這兩個完全一起掛鉤然後再來還要再來污蔑看不起所謂的烏克蘭講人家青年喪命 講人家家園被毀我覺得這個完全是提案相當抽象的一個結構沒有任何具體政策的創製性或者是法律覆決的一個內容全部都是情緒性的一個鋪陳 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4953.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4958.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
用情緒性非常不合理的一個鋪陳來作為主題案的主文這不但是在恐嚇人民台灣好像即將變成烏克蘭然後罔顧真正的事實而誤導視聽這樣子的一個公投我覺得真的不要把一般的民眾的水準看得這麼的低劣然後再來立法院如果我們要提出所謂的公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4978.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4991.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
你就必須要針對所謂的重大政策這個政策的提出最好還是要有實際的建議不然你就是淪為所謂的政治操作嘛這一波我們看到的全部都是所謂的政治的操作啊我問啊剛剛唯一講對的大家都有共識的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4995.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5016.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
沒有人想要戰爭也就是說避免戰爭這件事情是唯一的共識但是也沒有人願意成為所謂的烏克蘭的命運但是這個公投的合理性到底是在哪裡現在弄了一個公投然後又端不出所謂的正大的政策這個感覺上整個公投的主題案就是一個很可怕的心理測驗啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5018.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5021.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
在我認為我看來就是一種心理測驗他能夠真正引導出能夠落實的公共政策跟選擇嗎另外我再問一下如果要辦一次的公投大家都知道公投需要花多少的成本他需要動員他需要辯論他需要投票他不但成本非常的高而且他的消耗非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5039.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5051.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
為什麼要辦一個這樣子的一個公投而且是情緒性的公投的提案的一個主文好像在威脅人民這分明就是在配合所謂的認知作戰的一種語法根本是混淆視聽的一個公投提案以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5058.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5072.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
謝謝我們郭益勤委員的發言那各黨團均以表示意見本席針對本日協商會議宣告如下本日協商過程公開發言內容均以記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5075.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5096.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
但是因為無法取得共識本案我們就送請院長協商今天謝謝各位黨團代表出席本日這個協商會議到此結束謝謝上會主席主席這個後面應該也要讓他們來回應一下我們剛剛提出的疑問會比較好吧對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5099.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5114.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我知道是過水啦但是希望他們第二輪發言他們第二輪發言可以回應一下問題而且你沒有問我們有沒有二輪發言的意見欸主席他明明就是沈博洋委員發言就舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5123.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5124.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們明天兩點開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5146.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5147.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
鸡蛋糕 |