| IVOD_ID |
166149 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166149 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-03T11:55:04+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-03T12:03:38+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d5a4ce084af309d6c9ae6c66c90fa1ccd25403dec583eac67a6b5dab7889431084ce2c86cf23990f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
謝衣鳯 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:55:04 - 12:03:38 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長、司法院副秘書長就「民法繼承編特留分制度之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【12月3日及4日兩天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席 我想要請我們鄭部長跟王複蜜請鄭部長跟王複蜜好 兩位早安 我是特別來的因為我已經很久沒來這裡我是為了一個清潔隊員他送了32塊的回收電鍋給石荒的老婦 |
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那我也跟法界的朋友討論了這個相關的我也問了說是不是要進行相關的修法但是我還問他說討論一下說多少錢才是比較合理的因為我看到很多人都在已經在連署了嘛那在討論說多少的金額但是 |
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他們給我一個很重要的意見喔我也在這裡來救教兩位喔如果鄭部長你現在還是檢察官的話你會起訴這個清諜隊員嗎 |
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跟委員報告要看那個證據因為它這一件那個清潔隊已經自首犯刑了所以已經自首犯刑所以一定會要按照法律的規定來處理了那當然這一件因為它涉及的犯罪是貪污自罪條例六條第一項第三環的那個侵佔 |
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持有的非公有物他那個徒刑是五年以上所以既然自首犯刑而且那麼明確所以沒有空間當然我們如果說可以反起訴我們就反起訴因為反起訴是三年以上不是三年以上我們就可以可是即便是我問了其他的意見我覺得這其實不只是在修法的問題而是在檢察官跟法官 |
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在審判的過程當中起訴跟審判過程當中跟社會的觀感的這個落差然後那當然他有實質的他有構成的要件在這個這個上面也許這個清潔罪人員有上訴構成的要件但是在實質的犯罪的時候那這個東西是不是就阻卻他實質罪責的這個部分我認為檢察官跟法官是不是 |
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對於是否有這樣的罪責你們應該可以提出相關你們自己的心證因為這跟社會上面的觀感跟落差實在很大尤其是一個32塊的回收電鍋跟一個好像圖利他人的3200萬的罪是一樣的 |
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那在這個情況下我認為如果在不修法的情況下目前的司法界的這個教育怎麼樣子讓檢察官讓法官就直接在就是在地檢署在法院裡面就把這個問題就解決掉啦就不用到修法不知道什麼時候才會修好啊是不是你們在這個東西其實我認為在地檢署在法院都可以 |
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231.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
自己就解決掉啦 是不是王富密要不要謝謝委員垂詢其實委員點出了一個那個法律上一個很重要的一個概念跟議題就是實質違法性就是說我們現在討論都說對這個有構成要件對呀 貪污之罪條例它的構成要件都已經構成了嘛那所以確實那個實質違法性就是說它如果說那個法益 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
232.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
257.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
整個社會價值大家都會覺得說那個非常非常那個輕微的時候當然它會有這一層那當然這個個案我覺得我們尊重那個法院可是如果說我們就通案來講的話就是說以前我們年輕的時候讀書的時候就是去談這個問題的時候都會舉例說你把人家一張的那個白紙就是把它給那個侵占走了就是說這個好像是不是沒有社會上不會認為說這個構成一個犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
259.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
278.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但是這裡有一個區別就是說它這是一個侵占公務通常我們對於侵占公務會比較謹慎跟保守譬如說我們大家都在公家機關服務我們可以領一些東西如果領了這些東西如果認為是30還是50還是100我們認為說這個東西不構成犯罪的話有時候對於一個公務員的這種連結性我們怎麼看待 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
289.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
317.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
當然可是我現在在講的就是社會觀感對於這個問題就是當然這跟拿就是我們墨水匣啦或者是紙張啦這個不是相同並論啦因為它都是在法律函設上面都是一樣同樣的東西我知道都是侵佔了一個公務對那所以這個部分我想所以為什麼我也提出王鳳玉是就是說為什麼現在這個法院的法官他也不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
318.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
339.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
不判啊 判無罪啊有可能有可能你也擔任過高等法院的法官嘛那你也知道如果他判無罪有可能他也會說也會被高院說他違反了罪行法定主義是不是他也可能就發回更審那在這樣子的情況下他就 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
341.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
369.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個初審的那個法官他就就輕判嘛他認為他輕判啦可是對於一般的公務人員對於一般的民眾而言當然大家就會覺得說這只是一個好像良善的善意的表現那反而造就了公務人員以及我們一般民眾沒有辦法展現善意的表現是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
369.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
394.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我想委員 所以我想那個整個還是要從就是那個立法上 就是實體法上去那個著手啊就是說有關於貪污自罪條例裡頭的這個法定性這麼重有沒有那對於這一種就是違罪的這一種貪污事件怎麼樣讓他那個法定性降低或者是免刑因為這樣子的話就是才有辦法實質解套那你們現在有方向嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
395.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
424.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那個法務部他們在修法那我在這邊在利用這個時間我剛好接這個講就是說憲法那個保障法官可以獨立審判前提是他叫依法獨立審判所以說法官在這個案件裡頭他是完全依照我們的憲刑法那至於說憲刑法要不要檢討我想這個是可以大家可以集思廣益的一個議題對可是也有判例他是判無罪的嘛是不是過去有判例是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
430.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
454.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那跟委員報告那個法務部是那個法案的主管機關那這部分我們因為我們長久大家有注意到這個問題所以我們在已經提出修正草案就是針對那個小兒的這些貪污的像五年五萬以下的這部分目前法律是減輕提醒那個空間沒那麼大所以這次這個案件締公案檢了四次 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
455.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
476.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
剪了四次他當然也剪到不用關嘛在兩年以下三個月他有反省但是我們認為是這樣是不夠的所以我們有在一個豁免處提醒給法官有更大的一個空間那我想這部分那個行政院已經審訊了那我們想我們我想會盡快送到立法院來審理好不好這種東西好像讓民眾覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
478.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
493.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
就是沒有辦法表現就情形化中的問題的確困擾司法界沒有辦法表現他們就是說對於一些需要幫助的人那如果今天一個首長他拿了他自己在那個就是說可能拿到的水果什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
495.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
510.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
送給一般的就是需要的民眾那這樣子是不是也是這樣子的情況那這也會讓他們讓大家都不敢就是對民眾表示良善那對於需要幫助的人沒有辦法表示良善的話那我覺得這個社會也不會更好好不好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝 |