| IVOD_ID |
166140 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166140 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-03T11:28:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-03T11:42:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d5a4ce084af309d62f45dd3201f16cc9d25403dec583eac6a14720b4e10c82cb739c7deb8e227a905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳思瑤 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:28:43 - 11:42:00 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長、司法院副秘書長就「民法繼承編特留分制度之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【12月3日及4日兩天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席 有請部長有請部長跟副秘書長有請副秘書長委員好大家辛苦了 已經備詢一整個早上那我也扣合著剛剛很多委員在垂詢的一個議題也是社會非常關心的為什麼一個舊電鍋會變成貪污的重罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.225 |
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現在很多委員都說法外開恩為罪不舉但是法外開恩難道這個責任就是要求給我們的司法人員檢察官必須不起訴法官不能判刑好像就就責於司法人員依法來判案嗎法外開恩第二個壓力又給了總統要請總統社會呼籲是不是大赦特赦什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.352 |
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但是我覺得法外開恩這件事情我們要回到第一個字叫做法法律怎麼定是不是法本身有問題我非常同意我也建議你們你們會針對小額的貪汙去做一些法令的檢討可是我身為立法委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.9 |
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當立法委員一再的為了社會的個案很輕易的去指責恐龍法官 恐龍檢察官我們其實自己也要想想立法委員是不是成了恐龍立委貪污治罪條例現有對於公務人員的貪污罪它確實設計得很重而且很沒有彈性 對不對這是現況法是誰定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.625 |
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129.817 |
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立法委員定的立法委員自己定的法現在檢察官想方設法用各種方式想為這一個三十幾塊的電鍋這位清潔隊員想辦法給予不起訴但是因為法規定在那他沒有辦法達到還起訴不起訴的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
133.095 |
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法官也沒有辦法因為法就在那裡我們這個案子法官努力的給予幾次的減刑的努力幫委員四次是所以當立法委員在這裡因為一個社會案件很關心我也很關心我們要給溫暖法理情但是立委不要忘了自己要好好立法的這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
161.667 |
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177.554 |
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往往在立法院面對貪汙罪要求刑責加重加重不管比例原則一再的要求加重刑責的立法委員現在搖身一變變成大善人在這裡為這個個案要請總統給予特赦大赦 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.833 |
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所以我覺得反求諸己法外開恩我們窮盡一切的努力針對特別的特殊型的個案想方設法找出那個法律溫暖的部分但是法外開恩法是誰定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
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我們在場所有的立委也都應當好好來檢視是不是在很多的制定法律的時候單方面的要求加重刑責 下重刑責 加重刑責而讓該有彈性的部分沒了彈性這是我對這個案子的看法你們同意我的觀點嗎同意所以說比例原則是重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
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我希望我們委員在進行所有的議案的時候我更希望避免於為個案來要求指導要求怎麼樣剛剛有委員說這個案子檢察官起訴之後社會壓力已經開始罵了抨擊為什麼法官還要判那意思是說所有的法官他在判判任何案件的時候必然要受到社會意見的影響嗎這樣又是正向的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
257.358 |
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而檢察官跟法官他同樣必須承擔另外一個社會責任如果我這個案子被檢舉而不辦我會被說吃案 對不對或者是我這個案子沒有依法去辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
272.281 |
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然後可能給了不好的示範以後讓真的壞心的公務人員去用這種小額貪污的方式真的去侵佔了不應當屬於他的財物這不是檢察官想要達到他還是要有提升公務人員連能的這個社會責任嘛這個案子誰舉發的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
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跟委員報告這案件是民眾跟台北市環保局來檢舉的齁所以舉發單位是台北市環保局嘛好像這個案子也送到政鋒對 他然後就是北投分隊有先訪談那這個黃迅的被告有坦承這是有他個人坦承犯行他有把電鍋吸出他那個外面去齁那北投分隊才簽辦了來匯政鋒是後來才跟辦案機關來做一個自首的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
325.865 |
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好 我就是提供一個不一樣角度的思考當一個是台北市政府環保局還有政風市檢舉要求就是說已經循正式管道來舉發的案子檢察官也不能不辦嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
341.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
367.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
不辦了 又被說成是吃案 怎麼辦呢是 變包庇犯罪當然這個案子本身 我非常同意我們未來在法的本身更合理的來修正但是 但是如果只是很急切的來就責於這些依法來審判的檢察官或法官我覺得可能也有失公允但是我認同這個案子 我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
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我也很不敢 我也很心疼這是我北投的居民但是我是司法法制的委員我呼籲所有的立法委員在進行法律的修正的時候真的 我們都要橫平的去看守比例原則否則貪污罪就是那麼重每一次每個立委都加重 加重 加重公務人員就是不得貪污一旦貪污就是罪該萬死 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
396.499 |
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423.37 |
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然後這麼重的罪導致於五年以上他連還起訴的機會都沒有啊所以檢察官跟法官是想方設法幫助這個個案但是現有的法律框架就有困難的確 他那個因為還起訴要三年以上他這個是五年以上所以沒有空間所以事實上在偵辦的時候檢察官後來結案的時候也幫一直在求情檢察官在求情 法官也想辦法減刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
425.211 |
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所以这是一个我们不愿意面对到很心痛的个案未来立法院在修法的时候我真呼吁我们所有的立委我们就好好把小额贪污的界定大家能够很务实的去界定而不要到时候又冠上了谁什么帽子说谁在助长犯罪我觉得这样是不是理性讨论法律应当有的态度第二个刚刚说修法有善的修法跟恶的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
451.637 |
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474.375 |
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為了剛剛這個電鍋的案件 我們針對貪污治罪條例來進行小額貪污的重新檢視我認為那是善的修法我們讓法律有溫暖 避免這種類似的個案再發生但是現在立法院發生了惡的修法 您知道嗎昨天國民黨團提案 禁負二讀 又是禁負二讀 文匯不用討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
476.698 |
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502.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
不當黨產處理條例立法委員國民黨委員的提案直接排除救國團他並不應當被認為是國民黨的附隨組織所以呢救國團依法被追討的這些財產黨產當初是侵佔國產民產的就可以順利的黨產復辟順利的不公不義了我認為這就是二的修法下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
503.314 |
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531.668 |
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而這個禁賦惡毒的案子會去侵害到北高行判決救國團已經敗訴的救國團61筆土地的建物16億的不當財產都要移轉收歸國有還財於民還財於國但是現在國民黨的委員就這個已經敗訴或者說持續在程序中的案子好了他還是可以持續進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
533.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
548.299 |
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量身定制的修法而且是自私自利的為了自己的黨產來修法再一次用政治凌駕司法如果這個法修過了那現在辦到一半的案子怎麼辦啊 部長我說這就是惡的修法嘛政治凌駕專業 我問你專業的問題如果這個案欸 救國團被修法排除了黨產那這個當初北高行的判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
563.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
590.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
怎麼辦我們尊重北高興的判決因為這是台北高等行政法院的一個判決我們尊重我們都尊重但我要提示修法有善的修法把法修得更好是更有溫暖更幫助這些弱勢的真的是特殊的個案去協助他救濟他的權利但是有一種就是惡的修法為了自私自利的國民黨的黨產 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
592.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
608.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
然後要來修法來侵害了司法偵辦當中的案件這就是惡的修法下一頁今天的這個特留分的規定我們來看最後這個日本的那一頁好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
610.993 |
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624.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
日本有個制度剛剛審發會委員有提到我們是不是能夠研議繼承貢獻制度的規定也就是說實質全新投入而且投入照顧的持續時間很長然後沒有對價關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
629.96 |
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653.016 |
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的這一種特殊貢獻制度把它來參照在繼承裡頭給予合理的分配你們在修法的過程是不是可以參考這樣子的方向這部分我想的確日本的立法律可以提供給我們一個參考因為日本的法治跟台灣的法治本來就是有淵源是接近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
653.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
660.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那民情也比較接近那這部分我想我們會做一個參考的看看有沒有辦法融入 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
660.768 |
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687.851 |
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那我回到我的第三頁喔來 第三頁這一頁我也講一下下一頁喔就是說我確實認為這個民國19年定到現在的制度是應當因應時代的變遷要有所調整因為它造成了權利義務的不對等喔全球也很罕見剩下台灣我具體提出我支持可以往這方面修法來討論是民法11145條有個不效條款你們知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
689.212 |
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712.457 |
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針對因撫養而未撫養未善盡撫養之責的人其實是可以剝奪喪失他的繼承權所以說依民法的不肖條款即便是直系親屬但是你確定是你可能甚至還有虐待的行為對不對沒有善盡撫養之務你可能都被免除直系都會被免除可是旁系親屬兄弟姊妹完全未負撫養責任的卻 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
715.12 |
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722.129 |
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都可以享有特留分的分配這是不公平之一第二個無子女者 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
723.645 |
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747.031 |
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會被兄弟姊妹繼承可是他雙他卻沒有辦法去繼承有子女的手足的財產這淪為一種單向的關係所以我基於很多的理由當然我自己也是一個單身沒有子女的人喔我認為我其實認為可以正向的討論但是剛剛王逸川委員的提醒也非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
748.622 |
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776.44 |
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懇切我們在任何的修法不要再重蹈覆轍像我剛剛講的電鍋案在某個社會氛圍下某一種社會的討論聚焦於某一種類型可是會有其他的類型的眼神可能會開了一個小門可能就開了一個大窗或大門我認為都審慎研議我是支持可以討論但是特留分要怎麼樣去把制度設計得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
777.878 |
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792.608 |
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我覺得大家需要聽看聽好嗎我最後時間到來 部長要補充一個提醒委員剛才提出的提到的寶貴的一個意見我們會一併來做一個檢討好 謝謝辛苦 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝那接下來請 |